1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 Coming up next on Words and Numbers, whatever the hell. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,000 We want. Hi, I'm James. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,960 And I'm Anthony. And this is words and numbers. 4 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:15,400 Let's do an exciting word this weekend. 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,040 I'm sorry, I thought we were doing the back and forth thing. 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,280 What would you like to talk about? 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,320 What back and forth thing do you want to do? 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,200 Well, I want to talk about private arrest warrants. 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,280 Oh, so you actually have material for today, our 500th 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,320 episode. This is our 500th episode. 11 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:35,520 Can you believe? That. 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,960 This we we started in February of 2017. 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,400 We predate COVID. I was still living in Utah at 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,880 the time. And yeah, we'll, we'll tell you 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,680 the whole story coming up in a in a few minutes. 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,000 But, you know, and there I've been getting, I don't know if 17 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,080 you've also been getting, but I've been getting a lot of 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:04,040 e-mail and a number of Facebook messages and an inordinate 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,880 number of people have joined words and numbers backstage, the 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:14,720 Facebook group, all with the single question, where the hell 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,480 has your podcast been? Yeah, it's almost, it's almost 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,400 as if people enjoyed hearing us. They internalized it and look 23 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,040 forward to it. And then we said, Oh yeah, we're 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,440 going to take three weeks off. Sorry. 25 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,600 Yeah, well, everyone was. Everyone was concerned that, you 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,240 know, there was something wrong, you drop dead or what have you. 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,240 Yeah, but. Everybody always worries. 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,960 E-mail questions. Facebook questions, Yeah. 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,520 Yeah, I, I, I told a few people that you died. 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,960 Well, I thought it was kind of would have been kind of neat to 31 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:48,280 end on 499. Yeah, but then the. 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,880 People. Wondering, well, now you're 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,360 you're kind of giving away the farm by saying end on 499. 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,120 They're all going to think, oh God, they're going to end on 35 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,840 500. But anyway, you've got something 36 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,960 to talk about apparently. So why don't you go ahead and 37 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,000 talk about that? Well, I want to talk about 38 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,400 private arrest warrants. This. 39 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,320 Comes from. I would like to be. 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:15,720 I want to be a no. Issue. 41 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,640 Actually, I don't think you can. This comes from North Georgia. 42 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:25,280 Nikki Arts and her husband hired Larry Shepherd to build a house. 43 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,520 Arts gave Shepherd money for materials and deposits. 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,880 You know, the kind of thing you do with a general contractor and 45 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,560 sometime later subcontractors start coming to Arts asking for 46 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:44,240 money, and Arts looks into this and what happens is the money 47 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,640 that they gave to Shepherd for the down payment and for the 48 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:50,840 materials and all of this, he just walked off with it. 49 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,840 He never paid the subcontractors. 50 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,240 So Arns goes to the local police. 51 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:02,120 And the police said this appears to be a civil manner, civil 52 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,800 matter, essentially breach of contract. 53 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,640 We're not going to do anything. Now in most cases, you just kind 54 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,600 of have to throw your hands up and say, well, all right, we'll 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,840 go to civil court. But of course, civil court 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,440 doesn't carry the the panache, the threat of arrest that comes 57 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:23,360 with Criminal Court. But in Georgia, there is a 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,600 rarely used legal tool called a private arrest warrant. 59 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,960 And what happens is, in Georgia, citizens can apply directly to a 60 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,320 judge for a private arrest warrant. 61 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,080 It's the same process the police use. 62 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,160 So if she'd gone to the police and they had said, yeah, verily, 63 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,240 this guy stole your money, we're going to take out an arrest 64 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,880 warrant, they would go through the process that she's going 65 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,040 through. You filed the papers with the 66 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,320 judge, and she goes to Magistrate Court. 67 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,480 The judge asks that Shepard be arrested. 68 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,120 Shepard attends the hearing, tells the judge his side of the 69 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,240 story. Explanation all that The judge 70 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,200 sided with Arts, which means it then goes to the District 71 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,800 Attorney who chooses to prosecute. 72 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,320 A grand jury then handed up six felony theft charges. 73 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,839 Now this would not have happened in civil court. 74 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,640 There is no such thing as a felony charge in civil. 75 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,120 Court. I am absolutely loving this 76 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,440 story. Isn't this great? 77 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,840 So the six felony theft charges, the case hasn't been decided. 78 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,960 But the bottom line is this private arrest warrant bypasses 79 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,840 the potential roadblock of police refusing to act. 80 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,640 North Carolina, go ahead. I'll go it. 81 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:49,480 It actually makes the contractor's life very, very 82 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,560 difficult, right? He, he took somebody's money, 83 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,760 didn't deliver, and now he's got to go through this gigantic pain 84 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,280 in the ass about it. Usually that doesn't happen. 85 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,280 So this will at the very least inform his future life choices. 86 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,760 But Oh yeah, I would imagine all the other contractors in Georgia 87 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,280 are going to think that better. I better keep my my nonsense 88 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:19,360 above above the water level here or I might have to go to to 89 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,360 prison too. And and then it actually gives 90 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,040 the aggrieved homeowner, or landowner in this case, I guess, 91 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:31,880 a a mechanism by which to achieve justice. 92 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,640 This is win win all around. Yeah, and the big thing here is 93 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,320 that arrest warrant, which again, doesn't happen in civil 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,760 court. If she had gone the civil court 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,320 route, she would have, you know, filed for breach of contract. 96 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,240 And, you know, if the guy just didn't show up, you know, maybe 97 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,040 there's some ruling against him. I don't know how that works. 98 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,280 But the, the, the teeth of the law aren't there. 99 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,840 They are here. He's got to go through this 100 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,200 process, otherwise they throw him in the clink. 101 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,120 Yep, that's right. Now in civil, in civil court, 102 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,080 you get a judgment rendered against you and they they still 103 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,840 have to find a way to collect it. 104 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,040 And that that's not always as easy as it sounds. 105 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,120 One of the first jobs I had as a a graduate student when I went 106 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:27,720 out to California was tracing these com skips, skip tracer and 107 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,680 people who had judgments against them in court who would just 108 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,400 disappear. It became my job to go find 109 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,040 them, right? Because, and it's a rigmarole. 110 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,840 And some of these people had judgments against them for, you 111 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:46,120 know, 10-12, fourteen years. So if if they had had prison 112 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,360 dangling over their heads like the Sword of Damocles, they 113 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,480 would have made good on that that in court that day, no 114 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,680 question. But to your original question, 115 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,560 can you do this? I don't think so. 116 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,760 There are only a handful of states, principally North 117 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,240 Carolina and Georgia, allow individuals to request arrest 118 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,760 warrants. Maryland, South Carolina, 119 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,120 Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia have softer versions. 120 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,080 But what's interesting here is over the 50 states, with the 121 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,840 exception of Ohio, all those states that that have some 122 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,040 variation on private arrest warrant are states that were 123 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,960 part of the original 13 colonies. 124 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:34,160 As such, they they existed prior to the federal government and 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,000 and as a consequence inherited much of their legal 126 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,200 infrastructure from English common law at the time in which 127 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,040 there was no organized police force that you had to 128 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,240 effectively do this bring grab the offender, whoever offended 129 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,640 you by the caller, and drag him before a judge. 130 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:53,960 Yeah. And that was a, in a lot of 131 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,760 ways, a kindler, gentler time. Of course, you know, people 132 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,680 lived on average, about 30 years. 133 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,600 Let's not romanticize it too much. 134 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,880 I I like this. I like and I look fool somebody. 135 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,920 I like that somebody did a little digging, figured it out 136 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,720 and used it. Yeah, that that's that's really 137 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,000 great. And look, contractors. 138 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,160 When they're good, they're great, but when they're bad, 139 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,720 they're the worst people in the world. 140 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,600 And yeah, when they're absolutely, when they're bad, 141 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,200 they're a nightmare. And when they're in that second 142 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:32,120 category, they should be forced to make make things right when 143 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,520 they screw them up. And they screw them up all the 144 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,360 damn time anyway, believe it or not, that brings us to the 145 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,200 foolishness of the week. I don't have anything I want to 146 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,280 talk about this week except this. 147 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,840 Oh, oh, right. So you're all about oh. 148 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,880 And you've actually done research for something and now 149 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,880 you just flippantly say you haven't done anything. 150 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,840 Well, yeah, that's right. I thought that was the deal for 151 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,600 today, but you know, you can go. What's that phrase I'm looking 152 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,280 for? Fuck yourself, right? 153 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,120 Now and stop it. We still have the entire. 500th 154 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,840 episode. I could say whatever I want to. 155 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,520 Oh, for Lord's sake, Yeah, for Lord's sake, God, it's like I'm 156 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:17,400 married to two women. And, and while I'm on that 157 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,400 topic, I remember when aunt, when I lived in Utah, I, I lived 158 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,160 with my wife, of course, but there was a graduate student, 159 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,720 female graduate student living in the basement and the entire 160 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,840 neighborhood was abuzz that there were polygamists in the 161 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,600 neighborhood. Utah, when a man lives in a 162 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,800 place and multiple women shuffle in and out, he is a polygamist. 163 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,920 And, and none of the locals would ever talk to me or us for 164 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:46,960 that matter. They wouldn't wave at us. 165 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,480 They. And one day I got home from work 166 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,960 early, 'cause, you know, professors don't do real work. 167 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,560 And I got out of the car and all the Mormon mommies were pushing 168 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,080 their little babies in those carts around the neighborhood. 169 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,920 And the two women were sitting reading together on the front 170 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,080 porch. And I said, Honeys, I'm home. 171 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,240 Walked up, kissed each of them on the cheek, and then walked 172 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,960 inside. There, by cementing my 173 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,440 reputation as a polygamist, it was great. 174 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:21,360 Anyway, we are on to the foolishness of the week. 175 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,320 But this is not the foolishness of the week, nor the month, nor 176 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:30,600 the year, nor the decade, and probably not even the millennia. 177 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,520 This is the foolishness of all time. 178 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:41,720 How is it, Ant the two people can put together what is I think 179 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,560 by any objective standard, the greatest podcast in the history 180 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:52,520 of podcasts and not get sponsorship? 181 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,480 Now we, we were sponsored for a little while. 182 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,640 You people out there might recall what is commonly known 183 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:05,080 between Ant and I as the civil CIVL era. 184 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,680 And you know, they they were kind enough to pay us for six 185 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,360 months, get us a professional producer. 186 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,280 It was really great. And then when that deal ended, 187 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:19,600 they did not want to continue on, at least not paying us. 188 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,960 And when I say paying us, we weren't making a salary or a 189 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,040 part time salary. What would it have been enough 190 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,320 for? Probably two or three good meals 191 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,240 out in two or three movies a month. 192 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,360 You think that's about fair? Give him just give or take. 193 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,920 So if we're not, we're not talking moon and stars material 194 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,920 here. Although our goal was to get to 195 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,320 moon and stars levels, right? We were hoping that we could 196 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,480 make this our sole means of making a living. 197 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,800 And yet that just never happened. 198 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,440 It never even came close to happening. 199 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:04,120 So that, my friend, is the foolishness of all time. 200 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,960 So we want to talk about now. That's it, That's your 201 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,760 foolishness. You bet your ass it is. 202 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,320 We have, you know, we have pointed out before in, in terms 203 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,680 of the raw stats and they're not our stats. 204 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,920 They're just when I look, these are the things I find we're 205 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,360 routinely rated amongst the top 110th of 1% of podcasts in the 206 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:36,240 world by, I presume it's by downloads, which I quote that 207 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,040 statistic. And then I follow up very 208 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,720 quickly with that's perhaps less of a testament to our popularity 209 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,880 than it is to our doggedness that we've stayed with it for so 210 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,880 long. And there are so many podcasts 211 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,320 out there that if you stay with it for a long time, you 212 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,400 necessarily end up in that rarefied space. 213 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:03,000 Most podcasts are some very weird young man ranting about 214 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,600 something in his mother's basement. 215 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,040 He gets enough for about 2 1/2 episodes and he calls it a day. 216 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,720 Right. Been doing this for a while and. 217 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,040 5. 100 episodes. 500 episodes, and we're actually pretty damn 218 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,720 good at it. And I thought it would be kind 219 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,960 of fun. Most of the the long timers 220 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,800 probably already know the story, but my guess is that there's 221 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,640 going to be at least 2/3 of our audience who have never heard 222 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,320 how words and numbers got started. 223 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,920 And I remember it like it was yesterday. 224 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,400 Anthony called me, I believe it was on Skype. 225 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,000 Remember, we were all still using Skype all the time. 226 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,280 Before zoom was a thing. That's right. 227 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,360 And and he said, James, we should do a podcast. 228 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,480 And I said, what the hell, Just shut up. 229 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,720 And he said, no, no, no, we should read our op eds because 230 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,920 you and I were writing an op-ed every week back then. 231 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,040 Oh yeah, tremendous output. And he said we should read our 232 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,440 op eds just into a camera and then release it as a podcast. 233 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,520 And I thought that is easily the dumbest idea I have ever heard 234 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,960 in my entire life. And I said, all right, because 235 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,520 the Ant was quite insistent. And I was utterly convinced I 236 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:31,800 didn't want to do this. And, and I said, OK, I agree, we 237 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:38,480 can try this once if and only if we can send it to a 238 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,440 disinterested third party who can then pass judgment on it and 239 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,080 tell us if it sucks or not. And aunt readily agreed. 240 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,040 And I thought, well great, this will take exactly 1 episode and 241 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,520 I'll be done with this forever. Now given that you already know 242 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,920 this is the 500th episode, you know I didn't win this one. 243 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,320 But anyway, we decided we were going to send it out to a guy 244 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,920 named Sean Malone, who Aunt knew and who I was about to know and 245 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,800 who treated us quite nicely for a number of years and who 246 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,440 remains my friend to this day. And but Aunt knew him and I 247 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,560 didn't. And, and we sent it off to Sean 248 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,640 and he took one look at it and he got back on a call with us 249 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,200 and he said, my God, that sucked. 250 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,680 And I thought, thank you, Thank you, God. 251 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,240 Like, like that little kid at the end of Animal House who had 252 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,120 a Coed shot through his bedroom window as he was reading a 253 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,560 Playboy magazine, right. Thank you, God. 254 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:47,840 And then he said but, and I'm like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, 255 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,760 no. It was supposed to be. 256 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:55,880 And furthermore not but he said, but I've just gotten a job at 257 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,720 fee and they've asked me to develop content and honestly, we 258 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,880 don't have any yet. Would you guys like to work on 259 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,440 this and become part of that? And I'm like, how? 260 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,800 How'd this happen? How did we get here? 261 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,520 This is not what I wanted at all, and the early days of the 262 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,080 podcast were an in 8 minute video format hosted by the 263 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,240 Foundation for Economic Education, a group that Ant and 264 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,040 I worked a lot for back then and who somehow managed to forget 265 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,960 both of our phone numbers over the years. 266 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,840 You want to take it from there. Well, we, we were is part of our 267 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,040 fee sponsorship. Back in the day, you and I were 268 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,720 doing high schools, our high school circuit, which which we 269 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,800 had like the podcast just built up on our own to the point that 270 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,800 we were visiting, I want to say 50 to 100 high schools a year. 271 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,640 That's what we were doing that for almost as long as the 272 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,400 podcast ran. We stopped that when, when? 273 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,640 Yeah, I switched over to this new life of mine a couple of 274 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,599 years ago. But it was it was an interesting 275 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,680 synergy because we had the the high schools that we're going to 276 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,000 and talking about economics and and government. 277 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,720 This was exactly the audience that Fee wanted to hit high 278 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,680 school level talking specifically about economics and 279 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,720 government. So it was a natural fit there, 280 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,920 and it built our listener base because we'd come and talk and 281 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,480 we'd pitched the podcast and of course, they'd all become 282 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,720 listeners. And we've had your to this day, 283 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,080 I'll get from time to time an e-mail from someone saying, oh, 284 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,960 I heard you first when you came to my high school back in 285 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,640 whenever. Yeah. 286 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,040 And now this is somebody, an adult with kids. 287 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,200 Yeah. Yep, Yep, it was great. 288 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,720 And we we continued on with the 8 minute video format for, oh, 289 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,400 less than a year. It was way less than a year. 290 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,920 Yeah, because we realized early on that, well, things weren't 291 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,280 growing and nobody really wanted to look at us, which is a little 292 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,920 weird 'cause the people changed their mind at some point, but 293 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,760 whatever. And then we did a little bit of 294 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,680 digging, a little market research, something that, you 295 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,760 know, if we were smart, we should have done a touch 296 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,760 earlier. And we, we learned that people 297 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,680 listened to podcasts at 2 very specific times during their day 298 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,560 on their commute, average commute in the United States, 299 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,560 about 24 minutes. And when they did cardio at the 300 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:47,440 gym, about 30 minutes typically. So we decided, well, all right, 301 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,880 let's make 1/2 hour audio only podcast. 302 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,240 And it started really working right from the start. 303 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,040 And then we said, well, let's maybe have some segments where 304 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,840 we each talk about something different like Anthony did 305 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,240 today, but I didn't. And then a main topic. 306 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,600 And we did that. And I had always wanted to do a 307 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,840 section called the Asshole of the Week. 308 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,920 I wanted this right down to my bones. 309 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,400 And the nice people at Fee said, if our audience is high school 310 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,400 students, can you maybe not do that? 311 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,600 And I said, well, you're not without a point. 312 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,680 And that's how the foolishness of the week was born. 313 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,440 Well, I could. I could remember you and I were 314 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,720 driving through Kentucky going from Jackson County High School 315 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,960 to some other high school, and we were talking specifically 316 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,760 about this problem and bandying names back and forth, and that's 317 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,720 when we landed on Foolishness of the Week. 318 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,640 And it stuck. It stuck real hard. 319 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,600 Yeah, it turned out. I think it's safe to say it's 320 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:01,360 it's everybody's. Oh, I think it's people's 321 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,320 favorite part of the of the show. 322 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,920 Yeah, I think I think so too. I but I, I don't want to make it 323 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,120 seem like they don't like the more high minded stuff. 324 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:14,000 I think they really do. But the foolishness of the week 325 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,040 is just funny. You typically go find something 326 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,760 that's so idiotic, like that poor man who stuffed a World War 327 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,360 One munition up his backside and they had to evacuate the 328 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,200 hospital for fear that it was going. 329 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,640 To blow. Right. 330 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,720 But it's not. It's not just that. 331 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,760 It's not just the foolish stories. 332 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,960 It's the fact that you become so incensed you take it personally, 333 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,680 as if someone is insulting you by being foolish out there in 334 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,520 the world. That's what people love. 335 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,040 It does happen that way more than not. 336 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,680 And the young man who stuffed that thing up his butt really 337 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,520 didn't reach that category. But any, any time a politician 338 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,160 is the foolishness of the week. I was personally offended the 339 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,040 minute I saw the story and I've gotten all wrapped up and worked 340 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,560 up about it. And so once we added the 341 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,160 foolishness, it was like the thing just kind of came 342 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,400 together. And we've been working with that 343 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,600 format ever since. And we, we went from the 30 344 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,560 minute audio and people started whining. 345 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,880 We wanted to be longer. So then we made it 45 minutes 346 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,600 and people started whining, half saying I want it longer, half 347 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,920 saying I wanted to go back to 30 minutes. 348 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,520 You, you literally can't keep anybody happy in the podcast 349 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,760 world. And then when Civil came along, 350 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,120 they wanted us on YouTube. So all of a sudden we're back to 351 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,160 video again. And now you're looking at two 352 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,960 guys who are even uglier than they were before, because now 353 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,000 they're eight years older. Well, yeah, the up the upside is 354 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000 we can see you get red in the face when you're angry about 355 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,160 something. Yeah, that, that's right. 356 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,800 I'm, I'm cool with it, whatever. But but that's really the story 357 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:02,920 of the thing, as it has existed until this moment, and as it 358 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,840 will exist no more. Well, The funny thing is, I'm 359 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,880 not entirely sure how it's going to exist until we finish this 360 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:14,600 conversation, you and I. You and I have had several 361 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,120 conversations about how we move forward. 362 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:26,040 If we move forward, I'm not sure that we're 100% decided. 363 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,440 I think we're probably 90% decided. 364 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:33,040 We're 100% decided and see, this is when I tell the people that 365 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,560 it, it's like having two wives. This is the shit. 366 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,840 I mean, right here, right here, because we decided last night 367 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,440 what it was going to be. And now and it's back to 90% 368 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760 again. And I got to explain to him all 369 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,960 the reasons why we decided what we've already decided. 370 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,880 Well, let's see if your version matches mine. 371 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,960 There we go. Here we go. 372 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,160 And this is actually typically a very difficult part of the 373 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,760 conversation with me because those of you watching on YouTube 374 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,600 right now see Ant with that pen in his left hand, which means 375 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:11,160 he's been taking notes of this. And if he's taking notes of 376 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,440 this, he's taken notes of the conversation we had last night 377 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,600 and probably every other conversation we've ever had. 378 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,920 And every now and then he will from out of the blue say, James, 379 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,040 that directly contradicts what you told me on June 18th, 2007. 380 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,520 And you know, I, I just kind of have to take his word for it 381 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,400 'cause I didn't take notes in 2007 or any other year. 382 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,880 The podcast as it has existed will no longer exist. 383 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:47,560 There will not be a Twice, God help me, a Twice weekly podcast 384 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,160 anymore. There will not even be a Once 385 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,600 weekly podcast anymore. But there will be, for those of 386 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:04,280 you still listening, a podcast irregularly when circumstances 387 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:09,200 warrant. Yeah, and and I think that 388 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,400 solves a couple problems. 1-2 problems. 389 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,320 Exactly. Yeah, one is 1 is scheduling 390 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,360 that that had become a bear. Even with Civil taking over the 391 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,200 production side, doubling the number of episodes became kind 392 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,920 of took a lot of that back. But I think the larger problem 393 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,960 is we found ourselves or at least I found myself saying, OK, 394 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,280 it's time to record a podcast. What we going to talk about? 395 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:41,560 I don't know it, it makes. And having said that, having 396 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,480 gone on this, whatever it has been so far, 2-3 week hiatus, 397 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,960 several things have popped up in the news. 398 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,440 I thought, OK, here's something we could talk about. 399 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,240 So it seems to make much more sense that rather than coming 400 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,520 out according to a schedule, we come out opportunistically. 401 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,640 As things arise that are natural for us to talk about, we'll talk 402 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,520 about them. And for, for listeners who are 403 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,520 thinking, well, what does that mean? 404 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,480 I don't know. I could see it be, I could see 405 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:18,000 it averaging, maybe one or one to two weeks averaging. 406 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,720 You know, you might find sometimes when we come out twice 407 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,920 a week, you might find other times where we go three weeks, 408 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,600 you don't hear from us. I, I think all of that's right. 409 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,360 And you know, one of the things you and I still have to figure 410 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:36,600 out is do we bother with this YouTube nonsense or not, Right? 411 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:37,360 Do we? Just I like to. 412 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:43,840 YouTube I, I do too, but it adds in a layer of complexity right 413 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,560 that somebody's got to edit this shit, you know and and frankly 414 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,760 when I said before that we we don't really make any money on 415 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,560 this we literally make $0.00 on this now so. 416 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,280 Yeah, and it was. It wasn't far off of 0 before, 417 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,960 but yeah. It really wasn't, and we 418 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,960 honestly can't afford an editor right this this kind of thing. 419 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,320 Well, well, we got to we. Got to figure out how to do 420 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,160 this. Let me jump in here for a 421 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,680 second. Our, our friends on Patreon have 422 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,840 been funding us for good Lord almost since we started. 423 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,760 And it's their funding that has enabled us to. 424 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,440 There's all kinds of piddly little things you've got to pay 425 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,760 for from, you know, the, the monthly subscription to the 426 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,840 things that host your your files to the editing software and blah 427 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,080 blah blah. It adds up. 428 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,480 Well, it does because there's lots of these piddly things. 429 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:54,560 But to move forward with, with someone doing the post recording 430 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,960 production, which will be a third person, we are going to 431 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:04,640 need some more bucks. Not a tremendous amount, but 432 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:05,880 we're going to need a little bit more. 433 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,640 So I would throw out to, to our listeners, if you haven't joined 434 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,920 Patreon, please do so. It's word patreon.com/words and 435 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,240 numbers. And you don't don't feel like 436 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,080 you have to come in and, you know, give $100 a month or 437 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,520 something, couple bucks here and there will help us out. 438 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,280 Yeah, what? What's the lowest tier that 439 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,800 we've got? I think you there are people 440 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,640 that come in at $1.00 a month. It's kind of like there's if you 441 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,760 come in at $5 a month, you get access to to various things 442 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,360 there. Once in a while. 443 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:42,720 I think there are a handful of people give us $20.00 a month. 444 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,120 Once in a while we'll get someone coming in at 100, but 445 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:51,200 typically it's 5 to 10 a month. And, and look, if 100 people 446 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:58,240 could find $2.00 a month to give us that, that would get us 447 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,920 somewhere. Yeah. 448 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,120 So I just throw it out there as a possibility. 449 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,640 If you can't afford this or don't want to, I would never 450 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,480 even for a second think less of you. 451 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,680 We're just happy you're, we're just happy you're here with us. 452 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,200 But if, if you have the means to throw a dollar or two a month 453 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,440 our way and I'm really asking for a dollar or two, that would 454 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,440 be plenty good enough. And let me let me also say, 455 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:34,040 Aunt, if any of you know anybody who would like to sponsor a 456 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:40,120 podcast, like really sponsor a podcast, we, we would take some, 457 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,280 we would take some meetings. Yeah. 458 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,160 We're we're willing to so. Nonprofits, corporations, 459 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,280 whatever. Let me let me underline 460 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,080 something you just said I think is really important. 461 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,840 You said, look, if you can't give anything or you choose not 462 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,640 to, whatever it is, we're not going to think any less of you. 463 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:09,080 I want to underline that many times over the years I've 464 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,160 received e-mail from someone who says, look, I've listened to you 465 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,640 for a long time. I've never written in in, but 466 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,600 I've got a question or a comment or whatever it is. 467 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,440 So too, on words and numbers backstage, which you should join 468 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,200 if you can. Facebook group Words and 469 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,600 numbers, words and numbers backstage. 470 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,240 Often someone will post something and say, you know, 471 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,880 start off with long, long time listener. 472 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,960 But I've never posted first time, first time caller. 473 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,760 Yeah. And, and in each of those 474 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,640 instances, I think to myself, here's somebody who has been 475 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,480 contributing. They've been contributing by 476 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,520 listening, just by listening. That's useful for us. 477 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,760 It's a, it's a, it's a far bigger deal than I could ever 478 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,160 tell any of you. Yeah, yeah, there, there have 479 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,960 been several times in our years that I've thought, look, this is 480 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,840 too much. I've I've got to give it up. 481 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,400 I got to go do something else. And invariably somebody will 482 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,720 send me an e-mail or a couple times I get stopped at an 483 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,560 airport. And it's it's, it's always the 484 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,320 same kind of conversation of I've never reached out to you 485 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,080 guys, but I listen to you every week and I really appreciate 486 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,080 what you're doing. Good Lord, every time one of 487 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,880 those things happened, I said, OK, that's it. 488 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,000 I got to keep going and. We've had a world record for 489 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,440 those things happening since we went on hiatus. 490 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,200 Yeah, we go on hiatus for three weeks and all of a sudden I've 491 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,760 read emails are pouring in, a whole bunch of people joined 492 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,000 Words and numbers backstage. It's, it's, it's really been 493 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,440 quite touching actually. You know, the emails all say 494 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,400 where the hell are you guys? And when they join words, 495 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,120 numbers backstage, you have to answer a question to prove 496 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,640 you're not a bot or somebody more likely than a bot looking 497 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,400 for a, a group to learn about words and numbers. 498 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,520 Literally I. Want to know about words? 499 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,080 We, we, we get all these people who are not native speakers of 500 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,840 English who thinks, who think this is the group to join to, to 501 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,000 learn the, the tongue. But the question is, why do you 502 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:22,640 want to join this group? And I think we've had a spike in 503 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,240 applications lately. If you want to call it an 504 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,640 application and they all say, where the hell is the podcast? 505 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:38,760 I want to know where the podcast went and getting cut from the 506 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,960 civil deal was bothersome to me. I it really anger. 507 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,040 It didn't anger me, it was upsetting. 508 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,840 I thought we had finally found a home and we would just stay 509 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,560 there and it would grow over time and and you know, 510 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,600 everything we would all live happily ever after, blah blah 511 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,560 blah. Didn't, didn't work out that 512 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,880 way. But to see all these people 513 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,360 asking where we've gone tells me that we better go somewhere and 514 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:12,400 we better do something right 'cause apparently there's more 515 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,080 people enjoying it than we think there are. 516 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,560 And you only find that out when there's a break in the chain, 517 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,200 right? So thank you to, to all of you 518 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,240 who have written, texted, God help me, some of you find my 519 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:34,440 phone number and text me. I have I have gotten emails, 520 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:44,200 Facebook messages, texts and then texts on WhatsApp and on. 521 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,480 What's the one that begins with an RR? 522 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,160 The I don't know what. The hell is that one? 523 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,760 How do you not know? You pay attention to these 524 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,960 things, or don't you? I have no idea. 525 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,240 Here we go. It is, yes. 526 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,800 So it begins with an R and it's called signal. 527 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,760 To to date no one has contacted me on Telegram yet, but yeah OK 528 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,280 I. You know, just as a side. 529 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,480 Note more I've gotten more love since we stopped public 530 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,600 publishing episodes than I did in any three-week period when we 531 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,160 did publish. Just as a side note, so there's 532 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,160 there was texting and then there was that. 533 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,400 What was that app way back like in the 1990s? 534 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,920 It had a little like Daisy was it's thing and it went bleep at 535 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,720 you. That was a really popular thing. 536 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,400 People would like text back and forth on computers and then you 537 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,880 go to your Facebook Messenger and then you've got the WhatsApp 538 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,800 and the Signal and every one of these basically does everything 539 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,200 that every other one does. Why do we get this sequence? 540 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,760 The only thing I can think, and I've observed this kind of 541 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,400 anecdotally with students. The only thing I can think is 542 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,960 you reach a point where the people who are using the app 543 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,360 have been using it for so long that they've now become older 544 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,080 and the younger people want to talk without the older people 545 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,199 listening. And the only way to do that is 546 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,440 to have some new app and hence this this new thing. 547 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,120 This is why young people use Venmo, not PayPal, not realizing 548 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,280 that they're the exact same technology. 549 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,679 Right. It's not only the same 550 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:36,280 technology, it's the same company. 551 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,600 Ridiculous. I used to use ICQII. 552 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,320 Don't. Know if that's the one? 553 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,080 That's the one with the AC, Yeah, Which would bring all of 554 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,239 your various chat programs under one umbrella. 555 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,280 And it was so much easier just to deal with people that way. 556 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,200 And believe it or not, last week I started looking for an ICQ 557 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,360 replacement. And there are a few out there. 558 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,880 They all seem to be imperfect in one way or another, but I'm 559 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,680 going to start. I'm going to start because I 560 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,280 can't keep track anymore of who uses what to talk to me. 561 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,960 Sometimes I'll remember, Oh yeah, this guy said this thing. 562 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,960 I got to go look that up. And then I got like 19 different 563 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,680 communications processes open on my desktop, and I can't remember 564 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,400 which of the 19 he used. So you know that that's getting 565 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,840 a little hard to deal with. Well, you and I had you and I 566 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,840 have that problem for, you know, having talked as as much and as 567 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:45,000 frequently as we do, we'll get into a habit of using Zoom and 568 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,920 then one or the other of us will switch to text and that message 569 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,680 gets lost because we're used to Zoom. 570 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,520 So we'll switch to text and then later on somebody will send one 571 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,960 on Zoom and that one gets lost. And then I got to send an e-mail 572 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,920 saying where the hell are you? What's the power And it's it's 573 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,200 never exactly clear. I think we both landed last 574 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,800 night on just regular texting is. 575 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,360 The we better stick to texting, right? 576 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,280 Yeah, that's. Just the fastest way. 577 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,400 But here's the degree of difficulty on that. 578 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,440 As our good listeners know, Aunt, I almost never know where 579 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,160 my phone is. Oh my God. 580 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,880 I never use it. I don't care about it. 581 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,360 It doesn't do anything for me. If I'm out of the house, I've 582 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,960 got my phone. If I'm in the house, I don't 583 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,920 know where it is. I never have it with the bleeps 584 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,920 turned on because I don't want to hear that nonsense. 585 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,040 Which means even the wife can't call it so I can find it. 586 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,520 I just know it's here somewhere. Is it linked somehow to your 587 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,920 computer? So if I text you, it comes up on 588 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,760 your computer. Yes, texting comes up on my 589 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:54,800 computer. OK. 590 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,760 All right. So regardless, I can still text 591 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,600 you and I know that you will have gotten it. 592 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:01,400 Yeah. Yeah, but you know, I'm sitting 593 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,640 at the same machine for every one of these things, and yet 594 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,200 somehow we perceive them each as being different in some way. 595 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,880 Yeah, it's all words in a box. Why? 596 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,080 Why complicate this? It's words in a box anyway. 597 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,840 You got anything else to talk about, Aunt? 598 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,720 Yeah. One I think we left off. 599 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,920 We we cleared the history of the thing, didn't we? 600 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,600 Yeah, we did. Yeah, OK. 601 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,880 Several people have asked me about tips for starting a 602 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:38,240 podcast and you know, to start a podcast, I mean, it's you just 603 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,960 start a podcast, right? The trick I think that we've 604 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,640 discovered is not in starting it. 605 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,480 Anybody can start one. It's did you keep going and you 606 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,200 keep going even when you only have a few listeners because I, 607 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,480 I get the sense that people think if you, if they don't 608 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,600 immediately explode to 1,000,000 downloads, there's something 609 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,480 wrong. We had, we had in our early 610 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:10,000 years, whatever it was, 50-60, maybe 100 people listening per 611 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:17,280 episode, but it was growing 2% a week, every single growing. 2% a 612 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,320 week for a very long time. Yeah, yeah. 613 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,280 And and that's, you know, the trick there is you just keep 614 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,320 going. I got a note yesterday again 615 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,280 asking me where the hell the podcast is by a young man who is 616 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,080 stationed in Poland right now. And he said, look, man, I, I 617 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,680 stumbled upon this by accident and I showed my two brothers and 618 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,720 all three of us listen every week and then we talk about it. 619 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,320 Aw, how nice. Yeah, right. 620 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,160 So shout out to you Wesley in in Poland. 621 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,440 Oh, is that Wes? It is one of the Wes's. 622 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,480 We have at least three Wes's who weren't OK, listen. 623 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,840 So, but you know, and another thing that we did relatively 624 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,920 early on, we realized that we had a community of sorts that 625 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,200 listened to us. So we opened the the Facebook 626 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,800 backstage group and we said, hey, just because we were 627 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,040 getting so many emails after a while that we could, we couldn't 628 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,080 answer them. And we thought, well, if 629 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,560 everybody shows up to one place and asks the question there, we 630 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,480 can answer it there and then everything will be fine. 631 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,120 And before you know it, friendships were developed and 632 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,520 animosities emerged and that that Facebook group became a 633 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,080 microcosm of a larger society. I think a a little better 634 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,200 behaved, not as much better as I would. 635 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,960 Oh, I think a lot better behaved. 636 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,400 Well, I, I would prefer if some people would cut the shit, 637 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,800 right. I mean that that's just, it's 638 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,400 just not where you go to be nasty to each other. 639 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,840 And and yet, some people simply must be nasty to each other no 640 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,840 matter where they go. Oh, OK, we we put up with it to 641 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,080 agree and we kick people out to a degree. 642 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,800 But it is a a community and I plan on sticking with it 643 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,600 regardless of how often the podcast comes out. 644 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,800 I'll be hanging out at Words and Numbers backstage for for the 645 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,720 rest of my life. Well, I. 646 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:28,040 Imagine, give long as there are people in it, I'll be there. 647 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:35,000 We started it kind of like leading it and it over with 648 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,640 past, I'd say 3-4 years, maybe five years has taken on a life 649 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,840 of its own. I think you and I could could 650 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,880 just leave and it would continue. 651 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,480 I don't know what's the same lines it has. 652 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,120 I don't think anybody would notice if we weren't there, 653 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,680 frankly. I really let me leave. 654 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,600 Don't. Let me say something else here 655 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,520 about our past episodes. This is episode 500. 656 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,240 We talk. We tend to talk about things 657 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:07,040 that are happening currently, but the episodes are largely 658 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,640 Evergreen in that whatever it is we're talking about, even though 659 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,680 it's something is going on right now, we go to the fundamentals, 660 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,800 the the things that are true across time and across people. 661 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,800 It's the truth we want to get AT. 662 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:27,440 And so to that extent, you know, if if at any point you're you 663 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,640 start to go into withdrawal and you haven't heard the past 664 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,440 episodes, go back and start at the beginning. 665 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,640 You'll find a lot of really good stuff all throughout there. 666 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,560 You, you will. And I think every single episode 667 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,440 we have done has a significant Evergreen portion. 668 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,840 I, I would call it at least 5060%, right? 669 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,760 Because something's always happening right now and it's 670 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,800 always happening right now against the backdrop of what's 671 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,400 already happened, what should have already happened, what did 672 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,640 already happened, right? All these sorts of things. 673 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,120 And the Evergreen lesson is always like a, a, just a little 674 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,880 bit of happiness right in the middle of all those words, 675 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,920 right? There's always something 676 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,120 timeless in every argument that people have. 677 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:25,200 So you can go find that in those earlier episodes. 678 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,680 Yeah. And I think I think that's one 679 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:34,560 of the important things that separates us from the standard 680 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:40,240 talking heads and and is also on the other side responsible for 681 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:43,400 the fact that, you know, we don't have 10 million listeners. 682 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:44,360 Yeah, that's. Right. 683 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,320 What attracts 10 million listeners is, is the fluff, the 684 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,640 surface stuff that is, that hits the that hits the gut, that 685 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,880 makes me mad or sad or afraid or glad or whatever it is. 686 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,760 And yeah, that stuff's out there, but. 687 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,960 But. When you dig into the truth, it 688 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,360 becomes less of a visceral response and more of an 689 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,440 intellectual response. And that's not to say that you 690 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,000 know that you're smarter than anybody else if you listen to 691 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,480 us, but rather that if you listen to us, you're someone who 692 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,440 is more interested in in thinking through the thing 693 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,080 rather than feeling the thing. Yeah, the the truth has no 694 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,480 talking points. Yeah, the truth. 695 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,880 The truth is the truth and partisan bickering does not 696 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,760 matter right now. I'll tell you that Barack Obama 697 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,560 was every bit as wrong most of the time as Donald Trump is. 698 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,440 The partisan rancor has nothing to do with this. 699 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,480 When I made the case against Barack Obama, and I'm assuming 700 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,760 you too, people would say things like, oh, I bet you just love 701 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,640 George Bush though, didn't you? Then then, you know, Biden 702 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,240 becomes president and I'm a, I'm an anti Democrat again. 703 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,520 And then Trump becomes president for the second time and I'm an 704 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,280 anti Republican. And no, I'm, I'm just chasing 705 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,760 after the right answer, which honestly is what everybody 706 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,840 should be trying to do all the way up to whoever sits in the 707 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,960 big chair. You and I could have been much 708 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,680 wealthier if we had decided to just show up and yell at each 709 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,800 other and say a bunch of crazy things about whoever was in 710 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,400 power. Right, right. 711 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,600 But that would have been a Better Business model. 712 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,280 But a Better Business model? Business decisions. 713 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,080 We we are making business decisions. 714 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,480 We were making broadly philosophical positions. 715 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,520 Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. 716 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,440 And at the end, how do you live with yourself? 717 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,920 I mean, you can live quite well, but how do you live with 718 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,680 yourself? I think some of those assholes 719 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,800 don't have a whole lot of trouble given what I see. 720 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:05,360 And and then, you know, I saw Charlie Kirk get shot for having 721 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,120 opinions that people didn't like. 722 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,280 So, you know, that's where we live in. 723 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:17,680 It's not the greatest version of the world that it could be, but 724 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,320 it's it's actually pretty interesting most of the time. 725 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,760 Good enough for me I guess. So one last time, if you're able 726 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,000 to help us out, we'd certainly appreciate it. 727 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,320 If you aren't, we certainly do not hold it against you, and we 728 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,760 invite you to listen to us as much as you can. 729 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,760 Either way, look, if if you aren't, we still appreciate you. 730 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,080 Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it. 731 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,560 Was still We absolutely appreciate everybody who 732 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,960 listens. But for those of you that are 733 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,840 looking to contributepatreon.com/words and 734 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,280 numbers. Is that with the end of the 735 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,360 ampersand? Oh yeah, no, no, no. 736 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,600 It's spelled out words and numbers. 737 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,400 One word that URLs really dislike? 738 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,960 Ampersands. The ampersand has caused us more 739 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,360 problems over the years than anything else. 740 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,880 That's been the real pain in my ass. 741 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,800 Anyway, I am at James R Harrigan at Twitter. 742 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,720 Anthony. I'm at at Anthony Davies and for 743 00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:24,120 those of you that still do old school, send us e-mail 744 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:33,400 wordsandnumberspodcast@gmail.com. And for the last time in this 745 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:40,160 way, I I will say one more time. Life is hard. 746 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,160 We know. We really know. 747 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,880 Everything about it is hard. You wake up in the morning and 748 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,800 every damn thing you have to do all day long is actually 749 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,320 difficult. And most of the people you'll 750 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,720 meet are difficult too. But here's the thing. 751 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,520 You never know what kind of cross anyone is carrying. 752 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,400 You never do. And everyone is carrying a cross 753 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,880 of some kind. So keep that front of mind when 754 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,200 you have to deal with them and just take a deep breath, center 755 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,160 yourself and be nice to each other. 756 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,840 It's the best thing you can do. It's the best thing anyone could 757 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,360 do. And I think on that note, thank 758 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:36,960 you for 500 fantastic episodes. And we'll have more for you as 759 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,880 time and circumstances permit. See you next time, James. 760 00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,320 See you next time, Aunt.