1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Business Brew. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,200 I am your host, Bill Brewster. Thank you as always for 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,720 listening. This episode features Al 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,920 Goldstein of Stoic Lane. I'm gonna read straight from the 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,000 marketing material here. Who is Stoic Lane? 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,400 Stoic Lane consolidate small businesses at four to six times 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,640 EBITDA, adding technology to drive robust cash flow yields 8 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,600 and IRS with tax efficient compounding. 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,640 Now, I wanted to talk to Al for a couple reasons, but Adam Wyden 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,640 introduced us and Adam said AL's doing some interesting stuff. 11 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,840 Got on the phone with Al and went through some questions and 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,480 then found out that he was structured as a corporation and 13 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:43,040 he really is thinking very long about the entity that he's 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,920 building. And if you like what you hear, 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,920 reach out to Stoic Lane. Al strikes me as a good dude and 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,920 he's trying to build something. So I hope you all enjoy the 17 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,360 episode. It's a different kind of 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,480 episode, so I don't think any disclaimers are needed given the 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,960 fact that this is illiquid and that requires some 20 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,440 accreditation. However, just in case they are, 21 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,480 nothing in this podcast is investment advice. 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,320 Everything is for informational and entertainment purposes only. 23 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,280 Please consult your financial advisor before making investment 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,960 decisions. Do your own due diligence and 25 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,840 treat everything you hear on podcasts with a healthy dose of 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,400 skepticism. All right, thank you all for 27 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:45,520 listening and enjoy the episode. All right, everybody, ladies and 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,960 gentlemen, as I like to say, welcome to the Business Brew. 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,960 We are joined today by Al Goldstein of Stoic Lane and Al 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,520 is doing some interesting things in private markets. 31 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,800 So we're going to have a little chat here and see how it goes. 32 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,600 How you doing today? I'm doing great. 33 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,080 Thanks, Bill. Thanks for having me. 34 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,520 Friend of the pod Adam Wyden was the person that made the 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,960 introduction, so thank you to Adam for that. 36 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:12,520 Al, do you want to give people a little bit of your background so 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,480 that they know where you're coming from? 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,600 Yeah, no, for sure. But by the way, hopefully you 39 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,240 don't hear this building getting knocked down behind me here in 40 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,920 the middle of Miami Brickell. Creative destruction? 41 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,480 No worries. Love the creative destruction 42 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,760 like and like you said, thank you to Adam for making the 43 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,080 connection. But I'll give you super quick 44 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,320 background, I guess on me and and a little bit of stoic. 45 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,440 So immigrant kid was born in the former Soviet Union in 46 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,640 Uzbekistan. I don't know how many listeners 47 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:43,480 here have gotten the chance to go to that part of the world. 48 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:47,400 Grew up in Chicago and studied my started my career in 49 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,840 investment banking in New York at Deutsche Bank and lasted 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,880 pretty much 12 minutes or something to that effect. 51 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:55,800 Why? Why so short? 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,160 Yeah, no. Well, so I think you and I 53 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,640 talked about this a little bit, but learned a ton in the first 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,400 six months. Nine months worked crazy hours 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,600 and that was great. But fairly quickly, I think my 56 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,160 my learning plateaued and we were we were very process 57 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,000 oriented and had a chance to quit and go do a start up when I 58 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,320 was very young, when I was 23 years old, 20 years ago. 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,520 And my Co founder in that start up, who was a mentor of mine, 60 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,960 I'm still very close with. He he said something to the 61 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,720 effect of I want to give you the opportunity to benefit from your 62 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,920 own hard work. And yeah, he kind of neglected 63 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,760 the whole fact of like, you know, give up your nice salary 64 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,160 and cushy job and work for peanuts and move back in with 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,520 your parents in Chicago like that. 66 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,480 That whole thing fell by the wayside. 67 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,520 But Needless to say, we we did it. 68 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,720 My brother, my older brother joined as really, you know, the 69 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,240 Co founder, third Co founder, first employee in in addition to 70 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,960 me and Dave Shore, who's my original mentor. 71 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,800 And we built this company that very quickly grew to a 72 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,240 significant scale and that we started really one of the first 73 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,120 online lending consumer lending platforms, ended up selling it 74 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,240 to a public company over the course of four years or so. 75 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,120 And that we did great. Our investors did phenomenally 76 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:14,040 well and we did something like A70X return on capital from from 77 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,000 that business was this was. This innova or did you sell the 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,200 ANOVA? We we sold Innova, but it wasn't 79 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,480 called ENOVA at the time, OK. So the company was called 80 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,840 Cashnet USA, which which is still the brand for ENOVA for 81 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:32,040 the US market, OK. And and it became basically the 82 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,400 business it is today. So I've, you know, that's part 83 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,880 of kind of my, my, I think learning experience of my 84 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,240 narrative is I've watched that business continue to compound 85 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:46,040 and grow for the past 15 years now since 2008, late 2008 when I 86 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,640 left. And that company today generates 87 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,320 double in cash flow what we got paid. 88 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,320 And so it's a really big company. 89 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,680 And so I think it really ingrained this idea that the 90 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,200 eighth wonder of the world is compounding, you know, sort of 91 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,040 this idea that if you have a good business with various 92 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,640 entry, great culture, you know, sort of advantages relative to 93 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,480 competition, that business can continue to grow for a long 94 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,680 time. Did you have a sense of how it 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,160 did through O 8 right, because you sold prior to O 8, correct? 96 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:18,960 Yeah. We actually sold in late 2006 97 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,480 and we had a two year earn out commitment. 98 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,280 So we got to watch it through that period of time. 99 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,400 They actually did really well. Part of it was driven by quick 100 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,080 reaction time to worsening credit and got the benefit of 101 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,800 people pulling out of the market or providing credit. 102 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,400 So you know, we've got better quality customers and continue 103 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,520 to expand its product set and they've done a great job under 104 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,320 the new leadership. And a lot of the people that 105 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,120 that we had as part of our team went on and did great things, 106 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,240 whether it's building big startups or run big companies, 107 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,200 some are still there. So that that was my first 108 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,000 company. And then we just happen to have 109 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,240 some liquidity because like you said, oh, wait. 110 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:03,520 And I always liked real estate. So we ended up building a real 111 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,000 estate company starting in 2009 to buy distressed assets. 112 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,160 And we focused on multi family or apartments. 113 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,720 Pretty good. So we built yeah, no in, in in 114 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,600 hindsight, it was a pretty good time to buy assets. 115 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,440 It was. You didn't feel like it at the 116 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,520 time, though I would imagine it. Was kind of a scary time, yeah, 117 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:26,280 a pretty, pretty tough time to go raise capital as a 2627 year 118 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:28,720 old kid that I think I looked like I was 15 at that time. 119 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,320 Were you still in? Chicago. 120 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,040 I was in Chicago, Yeah. So we started buying apartments 121 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,560 in Chicago. How old were you when you when 122 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,280 you immigrated? Were you born here or did your 123 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,560 family bring you here? No, I was eight when we came 124 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,760 over. Do you speak any English? 125 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,360 No, not at the time. I'm still learning. 126 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,240 I think you're doing pretty well. 127 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,400 All right. So then did you move to, like, a 128 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,120 neighborhood where, like, it was, you know, I mean, Chicago's 129 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,120 got little pockets, right? Where they only. 130 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,320 Oh, yeah. So you didn't really like, when 131 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,760 did you integrate sort of into American culture? 132 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,480 Well, so I, I joke about it. I, I was a little kid. 133 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,680 I was eight years old and my older brother was 13. 134 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,720 I think it was more part of, of the Soviet immigrant Russian 135 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,280 immigrant community. I fairly quickly picked up 136 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,280 English. You know, when you're a little 137 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,480 kid, you just that it comes pretty natural. 138 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,640 So I was the ESL kid for a couple months and then fairly 139 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,680 quickly I became the American kid and I played sports and I, 140 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,800 I, I actually was really fully integrated. 141 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,240 So we moved to Skokie, IL and then my parents moved around 142 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,240 every, every, I don't know, every year to get a slightly 143 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:43,840 bigger housing. I joke about it. 144 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,320 So I, I have three young kids and we worry so much about do we 145 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,480 change schools and can we move and, and, and it's amazing 146 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,640 environment. And my parents, to their credit, 147 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,200 they, they could care less. Like we moved across the street. 148 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,000 I went to a different school. They're like, I don't know. 149 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:58,960 Yeah, yeah. Good luck. 150 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,920 I, I think, I don't know, I think our generation worries 151 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,240 about that a little bit more than our parents, but I, I think 152 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,640 our generation would be good to remember the kids are pretty 153 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,360 resilient. Well, that that's kind of what 154 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,160 I, my wife and I talk about is we're both immigrants. 155 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,000 She also is an immigrant and just, it ingrains a certain, I 156 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,080 think, adaptability in you. And at the same time, by the 157 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,800 way, a love for America because we came here for a better life 158 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,200 with nothing really as refugees. And I and I think, you know, 159 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,480 I'm, you know, there's a separate conversation that 160 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,520 people question American decisions and whatnot. 161 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,679 And I always come back to the fact that, hey, you know, I'm 162 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,000 just thankful as a little kid, somebody put me on a plane and 163 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,520 brought me here and gave me this amazing opportunity set that 164 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,920 this country provides. Yeah, I mean, I, I think I told 165 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,560 you, my wife's family is a Polish immigrant. 166 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:52,600 She was born in Chicago but grew up in the Polish area where like 167 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,040 they only big Polish. Community. 168 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,680 Yeah, they only spoke Polish. She didn't speak English until 169 00:08:56,680 --> 00:08:59,240 she was like 6. And, you know, you talk to her, 170 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,240 you talk to her dad. I mean, they they came here 171 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,640 looking for a better life. And God bless him, he made it, 172 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,440 you know, and and you look at what he provided for his 173 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,000 daughter and what she's become. It's the American Dream 174 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,040 personified and and you are as well. 175 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,480 We try to remind our kids of that constantly, but it's all 176 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,800 about lived experience. If you don't, if you don't 177 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,360 actually live it, it's very hard to digest it. 178 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,040 And so that's I think the question like you said for the 179 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,640 next generation. Yeah, well, I am. 180 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,840 I'm doing my best to raise soft children, so I have to harden 181 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,880 them up somehow. I I don't know how I'm going to 182 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,120 do it, but we'll see. Anyway, that's neither here nor 183 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,120 there. All right, so you started the 184 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,800 real estate firm? We started this real estate 185 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,320 company. We started buying distressed 186 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,160 stuff, you know, scary time, obviously a financial crisis. 187 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,280 This was really before TARP and TALF and all these programs that 188 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:50,840 brought the quiddity back into the markets. 189 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,120 And we ultimately built a pretty big business. 190 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,160 And we actually did it in a hold Co structure in in a holding 191 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,960 company as opposed to a traditional sort of deal by deal 192 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,920 or fund model. Because one of my lead investors 193 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,560 convinced me that that is just a better way to create alignment 194 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:10,760 of interest and ultimately get to a point where when you choose 195 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,040 to sell or go public, you're going to have one set of 196 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:15,680 decision makers to make that call. 197 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,640 And so we set up a private REIT called Pangea, you know, like 198 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,920 the supercontinent with visions of grandeur and they built up a 199 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,120 pretty nice business. We, we bought and renovated 200 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,320 15,000 apartments over the course of really six or seven 201 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,120 years and built up our own management company. 202 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,920 So we were operating workforce housing sort of, you know, 203 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,200 challenging, challenging assets and challenging neighborhoods 204 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,800 that that you really have to managed very, very closely. 205 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,240 So we built up that full capability set. 206 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,000 So we were what? Kind of neighborhoods are we 207 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,280 talking? Urban Chicago, like Minneapolis. 208 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,520 Oh, you know those yeah. Oh, I mean South Shore, you 209 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,080 know, Chatham, you know, Auburn, Griffin, you know, great 210 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,240 neighborhoods, amazing properties, by the way, amazing 211 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,120 real estate that could never be rebuilt. 212 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,080 But you know, neighbors that that do have crime, that have 213 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,360 high unemployment, that that historically have had 214 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,480 challenges. What did that like, what did 215 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,440 that teach you owning assets in those neighborhoods? 216 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,640 I mean, did you, did you come in with any preconceived notions 217 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,320 and then leave thinking something different or not 218 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,640 really? I'm not sure. 219 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,760 I think, I think we tried to to always leave the preconceived 220 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,880 notions at the door as much as possible. 221 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,200 It's hard to do, but I think my experience has been that you 222 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,000 just have problems and solutions and you try to really sell them 223 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,120 one at a time. And I think my take away is 224 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:46,920 these are neighborhoods with great people and neighbors that, 225 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,880 you know, they, they have challenges. 226 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,080 You know, there's, there's, like I said, crime and unemployment 227 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,480 and, and certain issues that that hurt the neighborhoods. 228 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,080 But you have great communities of people that are amazing and 229 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,360 they're loyal and they're just looking for, you know, great 230 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,800 products and services. And that's what we try to 231 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,440 provide. And but the take away from, from 232 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,120 that experience was you really have to be on your game. 233 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,800 You have to, you have to be be able to execute very quickly. 234 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,760 You have to be able to solve problems, fix issues in the 235 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,360 buildings, you know, make sure you deliver a high quality 236 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,800 product and, and do that in an environment that other, other 237 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,880 operators in real estate maybe can't do. 238 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,920 And if you do do that, you, you get amazing loyalty. 239 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,840 You have tenants that you know been with us for 10 plus years 240 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,240 that you know the buildings have continued to perform great. 241 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,720 The portfolio has performed amazing well. 242 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,760 Even even now that we've actually sold the portfolio, we 243 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,440 get to see that it continues to perform well. 244 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,800 Yeah, that's neat. I, I like the idea of I mean, it 245 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,160 would, some of those would almost be like opportunity zones 246 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:55,280 today. I mean, I don't know if they're 247 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,960 technically designated as such, but I like the idea of like 248 00:12:58,960 --> 00:12:59,840 going in and. Investing. 249 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,600 You know, investing in the community, providing services 250 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:03,920 that other people aren't willing to. 251 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,520 And and that's, that's like win, win. 252 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,280 Well, we've done some amazing things down there where we 253 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,520 created a sister foundation. So Pangea property is the name 254 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,360 of the real estate business. We created an entity called 255 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,720 Pangea Cares, which basically just reinvested in the 256 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,800 communities in which we operate with after school programs and 257 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,080 internship programs. And it's it's kind of the 258 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,120 circular construct that does work really, really well. 259 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,720 And so that's been, yeah, that's been phenomenal. 260 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,120 So that was, that was really my life professionally from 2009 to 261 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,480 really, really full time through 2014 or something like that. 262 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,760 When I was running the business, I was CEO and then I took a step 263 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,320 back to become Chairman of that business. 264 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,240 And I'm still Chairman of the Business Today, even though 265 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,680 we've now sold most of the real estate portfolio. 266 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,000 And I started a company called Avant, again focused on the 267 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,440 middle income consumer lending category. 268 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,920 We now call that Fintech. At the time, yeah, At least the 269 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,280 first time around with Enova, the I don't think Sintech was 270 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,160 really a moniker people would use. 271 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,440 Yeah. What what about the consumer 272 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,720 lending area like provided a lot of opportunity that you saw and 273 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,640 and made you want to enter it not once but twice? 274 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,840 Yeah, well, I, I, I think I told you I'm not very smart for one. 275 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,960 So, yeah, I, I, I joke about, I mean, I, I think it's this 276 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,360 really idea that with better data, better analytics and 277 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,360 better technology to deliver products digitally, it really is 278 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,600 a math problem. So when you kind of think about 279 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,520 everything we're talking about with AI and, and LLNS, we've 280 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,880 been focused on developing better, better models, machine 281 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,080 learning models to drive better credit decisions for 20 years. 282 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,680 And the idea is pretty simple. If I can underwrite to the best 283 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,440 quality consumer, why? Why define quality is lowest 284 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,360 risk consumer? I can offer that consumer a 285 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,200 lower rate of interest on credit and I got, I don't know why 286 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,680 fireworks. Look at that. 287 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,280 There was like your. It was like your computer was 288 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,800 ready when you hit the the. Punchline there like exploded. 289 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,960 I think this might be my kids taking over my computer 290 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,520 sometimes to do their Russian school. 291 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,960 So anyway, I it's just, it's the math problem of it, but at the 292 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,400 same time, it's got that same dynamic. 293 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,400 If you provide a great quality product and service to customers 294 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,800 that have been generally left behind by banks. 295 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Banks have chosen over a long time horizon to, to walk away 296 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,160 from serving the middle income and, and the non, you know, non 297 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,880 prime subprime consumer. I think if you could provide 298 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,000 them great products and and Avant's focus is unsecured 299 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,600 personal loans, credit cards, expanding our products that 300 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,520 overtime that customer is going to be very loyal and very happy 301 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,800 with you for a long time horizon. 302 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,600 How long is the typical loan that you that you would extend? 303 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,720 Avast products are three to five years on the personal loan side 304 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,520 and then credit cards. So credit, you know, credit 305 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,200 cards obviously a revolving line of credit. 306 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,720 And it's been, it's been fun to watch that company develop. 307 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,360 And so as part of that development, eventually we 308 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,760 actually split the company in two. 309 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,440 So we built a bunch of technology for ourselves. 310 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,480 We started selling that technology to banks who were 311 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,680 trying to do the same thing we were trying to do is improve 312 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,400 their customer experience. And so we had what we ended up 313 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,840 doing is deciding to split the company into the two parts. 314 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,320 So you have Avant which is a pretty big consumer lending 315 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,240 business, one of the top top 20 or so credit card issuers now in 316 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,960 the country by just number of customers, couple million active 317 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,080 customers. And then you have Amount, which 318 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,280 is a pure technology company that took the technology that we 319 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,400 built for ourselves, rebuilt it, re platformed it and then offers 320 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:53,080 it to banks as a partner where banks can use it to improve 321 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,120 their own digital experiences. So that was that was sort of my 322 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:03,240 professional life from 20/13/14 full time until 2020 when we 323 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,839 split the company in two and I became chairman of both a lot 324 00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:07,319 that amount. OK. 325 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,680 And then you said I don't have enough on my plate because I'm 326 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,040 chairman of Pangea, and that's kind of gone. 327 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,520 Not totally. And then I've got these two 328 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,119 companies. So I'm going to start Stoic 329 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,680 Lane. Yeah, like I said, not not. 330 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,839 It's not about being smart. I do wonder, I do wonder if you 331 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,440 have an off switch, do you just you are always going is that is 332 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,000 it like do you meet that? Internally, I'll tell you we had 333 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,320 a phenomenal experience as a family. 334 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,120 So we have three kids. They're now 8/10/12, but 20/20 335 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:42,160 was obviously COVID and we split the company Avant in February of 336 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,960 2020, March of 2020 COVID hits. And then, you know, my kids are 337 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,880 out of school for over a year and they were little and I was 338 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,960 pretty burnt out and I'd always wanted to go travel with the 339 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,640 kids for some period of time. And so my wife and I actually 340 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,680 did that. And so we, we went and we spent 341 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,200 six months, maybe maybe five months traveling around the 342 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,400 world during COVID, which was an unbelievable experience for our 343 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,320 family. And nobody was traveling, which 344 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,000 was a crazy time an. Aggressive decision that I 345 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,240 respect very much as somebody that came to Florida. 346 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,320 Yeah, no, we had, we had this unbelievable experience and I 347 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,240 feel like it really created this bond with our family and 348 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,760 hopefully our kids got to see some stuff that they would never 349 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:26,840 see. Yeah, I'd imagine. 350 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,040 But for me, for me, that was a great catalyst. 351 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,680 I think, I think it kind of like reinvigorated this fire to want 352 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,800 to build something really big that's that's hopefully multi 353 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,200 generational, which is what Stoke Lane is. 354 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,960 You know, Stoke Lane is is really modeled on obviously 355 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,840 Berkshire Hathaway is is one of the largest, most well known 356 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:47,640 longer term investment platforms. 357 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,480 But Constellation software, Danaher, you know, Liberty Media 358 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,160 IAC that that was the vision that that I've been thinking 359 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,800 about for a long time. This idea of creating a longer 360 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,960 term operating and investment platform that will just be able 361 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,920 to benefit from that longer term compounding, but at the same 362 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,280 time use technology, use better operational capability, adopt, 363 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:15,480 you know, the next most most important advancement a la AI to 364 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,760 drive better longer term efficiency across businesses in 365 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,280 my world, in my world, you know, being where I've played my whole 366 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,240 career, which is financial services and real estate. 367 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,400 Yeah. So you, you say in the in the 368 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,960 one pager that it's fire, right. So national services, not 369 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,040 insurance. The RE is real estate but it's 370 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,040 like. Counting, right, Well, so 371 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,360 originally we said fire, finance, insurance and real 372 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,520 estate. It was a little catchy and, and 373 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,320 that's what we didn't know what we were going to do. 374 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,560 So that was sort of the broad lane and it's pretty broad 375 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,120 because fire represents 20% of GDP. 376 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,560 But what we've done since is we've really created 2 core 377 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,280 platforms and we have a real estate services platform where 378 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,640 we've assembled a couple of really large companies that are 379 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,720 some of the biggest companies in the US and what they do. 380 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,640 And then we have a. Platform we call financial 381 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,440 solutions really back office services for entrepreneurs and 382 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,400 small businesses. OK. 383 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,080 So that's that's what we built. And so, so let's put a little 384 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,480 bit more of a fine point on that. 385 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,760 The the real estate company, the operating companies, What 386 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,960 exactly are you doing? Yeah. 387 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,480 So I think our core strategy, and again, don't, we were 388 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,960 starting the business in early 21. 389 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,920 So we officially launched Stoic March of 2021, raised capital 390 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,280 for the first time in August of 21. 391 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,520 This was sort of the heart, the heart of, you know, 0 interest 392 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,600 rates, every asset was being pumped, SPAC, you know, crypto, 393 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,680 you name it. And personally, I, I have a 394 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,920 value bent and just the way we were trying to think about it as 395 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,520 partners, where, where can we go where we can buy companies at 396 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,000 reasonable multiples of cash flow instead of paying, you 397 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,800 know, 50 times revenue for minority stakes in startups, but 398 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,360 at the same time get that long term growth. 399 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,080 And So what we really came up with isn't this idea that we are 400 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,360 going to buy small operating businesses. 401 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,400 We're going to focus on professional services. 402 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,880 So asset light companies that are highly fragmented, that are 403 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,600 not using a lot of technology, buy up those companies, create 404 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,040 scale by putting them together into a larger platform. 405 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,040 So step one is integrate those businesses to create scale. 406 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,920 Step 2 is really use best in class technology systems, 407 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,160 optimize the businesses to actually get the benefit of 408 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,760 scale. And then longer term, step three 409 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,600 is drive growth and better margins over a long time horizon 410 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,080 using tech, AI, outsourcing, sort of you name it. 411 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,240 And that's what we've done. And so we did that in vacation 412 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,080 rental management where we assembled the second largest 413 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,840 vacation rental property manager in the US, we call it Monarch. 414 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,920 We've done that in real estate valuation or appraisal in a 415 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,080 platform we call Ascribe and we're now doing that across 416 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,840 accounting in a platform we call Archer Lewis. 417 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:16,280 What have you experienced in the portfolio side of like the 418 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,440 Airbnb, for lack of better term, rental management? 419 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,400 Seems like, you know, 2021-2022 you were right in the teeth of a 420 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,840 ton of demand. Has that sort of softened at all 421 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,680 or is it still pretty, you know, like what do you see from your 422 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,440 lens? Yeah, no, you're totally right. 423 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,040 I mean, the, the the initial COVID wave obviously was 424 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,120 challenging for that whole industry because everything was 425 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,440 shut down for a period of time. And then everyone started 426 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,960 traveling and nobody had to be in an office anywhere. 427 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,520 And there was stimulus money and and liquidity everywhere. 428 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,760 And so those, those companies all grew like crazy between 429 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,080 really 21 and 22. So we've got into this space in 430 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,120 the very end of 2021, we bought our first platform and then we 431 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:05,200 really scaled in 22 and 23. And I think our assumption was 432 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,160 that that was going to stop and that it was going to be a softer 433 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,120 period of time. And it and that was going to 434 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,560 come off a little bit and you're going to have a couple of years 435 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:19,160 of stagnation just in occupancy, average daily rents or AD Rs Rev 436 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,680 par being the combination of those two factors. 437 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,400 And that's really what we've seen. 438 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,080 So the last year was with a tougher year in the whole 439 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,560 industry. The the overall Rev par was down 440 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,080 1415%. This year's 15 to be a little 441 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,400 bit slow challenges with supply, too much supply that came into 442 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,040 the market depending on what market you're in. 443 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,280 We we've purposely stayed out of of cities. 444 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,480 So we don't generally operate in urban markets. 445 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,280 We operate in traditional vacation markets that don't have 446 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,480 nearly as much supply that don't have, you know, the Airbnb 447 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,720 arbitrage model as he will busy people that will rent A unit 448 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,840 from from an owner in an apartment building and then go 449 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,080 on Airbnb and lease it out and try to make the spread. 450 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,280 We don't typically compete with that. 451 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,560 So we don't do any of that. We manage homes on behalf of 452 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,000 homeowners that have a second home. 453 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,720 They might have a second home in Lake Tahoe in, you know, the 454 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,360 Panhevol of Florida, in Sea Brook Island, Georgia, you name 455 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,680 it. And we try to provide them this 456 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,280 great experience where they don't have to deal with it. 457 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,000 They get a check every month and then when they choose to come 458 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,760 and stay in their property, their property is going to be 459 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,960 spotless and it's going to be well taken care of that. 460 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,520 That's the experience we try to provide. 461 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:34,360 And you know, I think we've done a pretty good job in maintaining 462 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,680 growth and, and improving growth. 463 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,200 And it's still a challenging year in the market, but I think 464 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,960 we've, we've kind of done a pretty good job of improving how 465 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,720 we think about pricing and getting the benefits of scale. 466 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,840 And so we're actually growing, whereas the industry continues 467 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,440 to spotter along right now. But I, but I personally think 468 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,160 the whole industry has gone mainstream with COVID. 469 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,800 So many people have discovered that you don't have to stay in a 470 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,720 hotel when you travel. You could find us on Airbnb, 471 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,520 VRBO, Home Away, or you can find this directly. 472 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,400 But then once you have that experience that you've gone and 473 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,120 stayed in a house with 345 bedrooms and a yard, it's pretty 474 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:12,400 hard to want to go stay in a hotel room. 475 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,160 You know, it's just, it's a totally different experience. 476 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,960 Yeah, well, especially now that you don't get your hotel room 477 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,080 clean unless you make a special overture to somebody to do it 478 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,240 right. It's it's one thing when you're 479 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,040 getting service associated with it, but if I'm not, if I don't 480 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,160 get my service, then I might as well, especially if I'm 481 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,600 traveling with the family. The Airbnb model is much better 482 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,480 for me. Well, that's what I think it is. 483 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,160 We travel all over the world with my kids. 484 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,880 We stayed in in Airbnb's and homes all over the world and we 485 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,000 had a great experience and like how we use Airbnb now as, as 486 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,440 it's now and or, or VRBO or HomeAway. 487 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,640 I I think they're great companies as marketing company, 488 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,000 but I travel by myself. I go to New York. 489 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,920 I was in New York yesterday. I stayed in a hotel because it's 490 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,680 easy, it's simple. I don't have to think about it. 491 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,520 But if I'm going traveling with my family for a week and I need 492 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,200 a place to work and I need some room for the kids to sleep, it 493 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,640 just the hotel housing stock isn't built for that. 494 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,520 Yeah. Well, and then you get in two 495 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,520 rooms and once you start doing that, the cost gets crazy. 496 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,840 So it's a, it's a nice value proposition and your strategy is 497 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,160 to do the asset management side of it, but not you don't have 498 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,840 the capital outlay. So if I I would be a a customer 499 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,040 theoretically that owns a second home, I'm the one that holds the 500 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,480 assets and then you sign up with me and you send me a check, 501 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,960 right? Correct, Yeah, We don't own the 502 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,040 properties and have no interest in in building up the asset 503 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,680 base. Our interest is providing the 504 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,960 best experience we can to our owner and in some, in some cases 505 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,240 the owners may choose to buy multiple properties. 506 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,600 So we have owners that own, you know, 15 or 20 properties that 507 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,600 we manage for them and that's great. 508 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,800 And our whole focus and goal is how do we operate our business 509 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,000 most efficiently and how do we provide the best cleaning 510 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,680 services and how do we price most effectively? 511 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,200 How do we provide them the best AP is and onboarding into the 512 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,040 RBL, HomeAway, Airbnb, Expedia, making sure that the most new 513 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,280 guests find them, but at the same time also provide them 514 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,440 great websites so that repeat guests that want to stay with 515 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,840 them directly can stay with them directly. 516 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,280 So it's really focused on the operating side of that, that 517 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,520 experience. And then ultimately the goals 518 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,960 are pretty simple is you want them to have great income and 519 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,040 it's totally passive and at the same time great experiences when 520 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,680 they stay in their homes because most of our owners stay in their 521 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,000 homes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 522 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,560 That makes sense. It's sort of like a way for them 523 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,040 to cover some of their expenses while they're not utilizing the 524 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,760 home. Exactly. 525 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,640 They might stay in their home three-week, 3 weeks a year, 526 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,280 maybe 4 weeks a year tops. The rest of the time the home is 527 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,040 just sitting there underutilized and it's taking on just sort of 528 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,360 natural wear and tear. And so this way they get to 529 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:00,640 offset that cost. And then people are in the 530 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,920 house, they're checking to make sure if a pipe burst, we catch 531 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,280 it pretty quickly, that kind of thing. 532 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,240 So do you have like regional managers that I, I guess what 533 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,640 I'm, what I'm trying to figure out is you, you mentioned, you 534 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,920 know, decentralized operations right in constellation. 535 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,200 So like, how does that permeate what you do and how does that 536 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,960 apply to what you do? Yes. 537 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:27,120 So the way we've scaled is we've bought 24 companies, individual 538 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,120 companies to create this platform, Monarch. 539 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,440 And these are amazing companies that have been around for a 540 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:37,520 long, long time in Lake Tahoe. We have Tahoe Getaways and R&R 541 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,480 in Aspen, Wear Aspen Signature in the Panhell Florida. 542 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,320 We have a company called Benchmark and Vest Beach. 543 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,560 And basically our strategy is we want to preserve the long term 544 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,600 value in brands that we have acquired. 545 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,320 We don't want to destroy those brands because a lot of times 546 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,360 those brands have been around way longer than we've been 547 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,640 around and they've great experiences, great reputations. 548 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,880 And so that's what we try to do is we try to incentivize the 549 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,120 owners to stick around as long as they want to stick around and 550 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,560 try to make their lives better so they don't have to deal with 551 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,000 the administrative stuff that they in a lot of cases don't 552 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,080 want to deal with. So the back office, the 553 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,880 accounting, the HR, and they could focus on dealing with, you 554 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,160 know, their clients, on finding new homes, on being in the 555 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,200 community. And so that that's a big part of 556 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,880 what we're trying to do back to the decentralized management and 557 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,240 then essentially provide them the support for the 558 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,720 administrative side to make their lives more efficient, 559 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,320 provide them technology services that they historically couldn't 560 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,080 afford, could provide, provide them data and analytics. 561 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,640 So they could think about how do they optimize pricing most 562 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,720 effectively? How do they, you know, figure 563 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,640 out how to scale vendor relationships and get better 564 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,560 pricing on, you know, linens, sort of you name it. 565 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,160 And it's worked really well. And, and I think that hybrid 566 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:57,280 approach where you can go to the property that you've gone to for 567 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,720 the past 15 years and it still feels the same, that looks the 568 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,320 same, you get the same quality touch, but maybe it's even a 569 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,400 little bit better because now you have more consistency. 570 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,240 Now you know you can have kind of some features that 571 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,480 historically you didn't have because we're trying to learn. 572 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,080 So we're taking what's working in one market and trying to 573 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,520 apply it to a different market. Yeah, that makes sense. 574 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,240 How do you think about, to the extent that you you can talk 575 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,520 about it, how do you think about incentivizing the owners that 576 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,440 are staying on in order to keep them motivated? 577 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,280 Yeah. No, I mean, we, we, we really 578 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,440 focus on long term incentives as part of this idea of how do you 579 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,720 continue to scale and grow a business for a long time. 580 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,280 So it's not only the owners, obviously all of our key 581 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,240 employees and executives. So it's really a function of 582 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,200 when they sell, a lot of times they'll take a piece of the go 583 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,360 forward business of Stoke Lane as part of that compensation. 584 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,680 So they have incentive there. And if they want to stay around 585 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,360 for a long time, we'll try to create the right incentive to 586 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,400 match what they want to do. And, and we've heard this from a 587 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,320 number of owners where of the 24 companies that we've acquired, 588 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,840 20 owners are still with us, which I think is, and this is 589 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,240 just in our vacation rental vertical, just to be clear. 590 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,240 And I think that's a huge win. We're super excited about that. 591 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,440 And a number of them thought that the by now they would have 592 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,760 retired, they would have moved on. 593 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,280 And they've told us, you know, we're sticking around as long as 594 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,880 you're here. And, and so that to me goes back 595 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,040 to why are we doing this? I think that's that's the piece 596 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,520 that that I get energized about. So something that you, you said, 597 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,600 you know, you give them some equity or, or a piece of Stoic 598 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,800 Lane. I'm not trying to put words in 599 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,360 your mouth. And if I misspoke, I'm sorry. 600 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,600 But but the thought that I had you talking about long term, do 601 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,360 you mind talking about how Stoic Lane is set up? 602 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,760 Because when we first talked, I think it was about 45 minutes 603 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,280 into the conversation, I was like, oh, so you're AGP and you 604 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,560 were like, no, no, no, no, no, it's nothing like that. 605 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,000 So I think it's kind of interesting the approach that 606 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,200 you've taken. Yeah. 607 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,920 So we're we're basically a company. 608 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,200 So we're an investment company. We have shareholders, I'm one of 609 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,840 the biggest shareholders personally. 610 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,280 Our shareholders have preferred shares in the company that that 611 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,040 could convert to common if we go public, which is our long term 612 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,120 strategy. And then management incentive, 613 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,640 you know in a private equity firm it would be carry 614 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,560 management incentives is really in the form of common shares 615 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,800 that vest based on performance. And so we create alignment of 616 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,080 interest between our investors and management by tying it to 617 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,880 really long term outcomes. And so our goal is to create 618 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,280 compounding multiples of capital that translate to hopefully 25 619 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,880 or 30% annual returns for the next 10/15/20 years, right, nice 620 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,480 and easy, right? Like. 621 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,960 Easier said than done. Yeah. 622 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,360 Well, I talk about it's, it's easy to build a model that shows 623 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,200 that because I think what we're doing translates, you know, on a 624 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,280 model basis to significant long term returns because we're 625 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,680 buying companies at reasonable multiples, market multiples, but 626 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,760 they're small companies. And so typically we're buying 627 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,560 them for five times cash flow. That's kind of our model. 628 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,280 And you put them together into these larger platforms. 629 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,640 In theory they're worth a lot more. 630 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,680 And so that translates to higher returns. 631 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,480 The theory though, the big test is can you actually operate 632 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,840 these businesses? Do you keep management engaged? 633 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,640 Can you continue to grow as they're part of a larger 634 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,720 platform? And I think that's that's kind 635 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,880 of the skill set that we're trying to bring to the table is 636 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,240 that really have a unique experience. 637 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,800 So that's that's the structure and the long term goal is how 638 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,480 you create significant multiples of capital over a long time 639 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,720 horizon 10/15/20 X for our investors. 640 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,360 Yeah. And, and the other thing that 641 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:45,360 you would had said to me is like I, I think when, when you're 642 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,280 thinking, you're thinking about, you know, running this for a 643 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,160 very long time, right? I mean, my interpretation of our 644 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,120 first conversation was not that you necessarily regretted 645 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,040 selling your first business, but you watched it become what it 646 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,240 became. And you thought, next time I 647 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,440 want to hold that compounding for as long as I can once I get 648 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,520 the right wrapper, if that makes sense. 649 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,600 Is that fair? Yeah, no, for sure. 650 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,040 I, like I said, I've been, I've been a student of these amazing 651 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,880 leaders and CE OS, you know, Mark Leonard, a Constellation 652 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:23,040 and, and obviously Buffett and Charlie Munger and and a number 653 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,040 of others, John Malone of Liberty Media that have built 654 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,360 these amazing businesses. But they didn't do it overnight. 655 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,880 It took, it took years, twenty, 30-40 years to really get to the 656 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,760 point where these companies were really scaled platforms. 657 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,520 And so we think of ourselves really just in our form at a 658 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,840 stage we're 3 1/2 years in and we're just kind of getting our 659 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,880 feet wet, hopefully. And so our viewers, we could 660 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,040 continue to expand. So we really have these two core 661 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,840 platforms. Our platforms can grow 662 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,120 horizontally as we find adjacent opportunities that make sense. 663 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,040 We're hopefully we have benefits of already being in a business 664 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,600 where we have adjacency of having great young leaders that 665 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,440 could step into roles as CEOs, as product leaders, as 666 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,480 technology leaders, as chief revenue officers that we're 667 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,480 we're kind of building up, giving them great opportunity 668 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,040 and I ideally create these amazing advantages that can 669 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,800 continue to multiply. So that that's really our view. 670 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,520 You know, our real estate business Pangea was started in 671 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,480 2009. It was a 15 year journey. 672 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,040 My hope is that this is like I said, 2530 plus year journey and 673 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,960 we could continue to deliver amazing outcomes for our 674 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,800 shareholders, but at the same time continue to to really 675 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,720 foster these great brands that have been delivered and that 676 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,600 have proven out in their first kind of first ownership by these 677 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,680 great founders. And what we promised these 678 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,640 founders is we're going to do our best to protect your legacy. 679 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,600 So you just, you know, you could continue to build it. 680 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,360 You can eventually retire, take a step back, but feel 681 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,640 comfortable that your legacy is going to be protected. 682 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,360 Why did you exit Pangaea? So this we sold the portfolio, 683 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,240 you know, ultimately the challenge with any businesses, 684 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,000 are you growing? And if you're not growing, can 685 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,160 you continue to motivate the young team? 686 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,320 And we just really weren't growing because I think the 687 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,120 challenge with real estate is so cyclical. 688 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,040 And we bought real estate from 2009 to 2014 or 15. 689 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,840 And we really didn't buy much real estate from 2015 on because 690 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,160 we just thought the prices were too high. 691 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,160 And you know, ultimately I think we should have kept going and 692 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,560 eventually prices corrected, but we just felt like if we weren't 693 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,720 going to continue to grow and didn't see opportunity to 694 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,160 continue to grow the real estate portfolio, it made sense to 695 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,280 explore the market to sell it. Interesting. 696 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,120 So what did I mean, what did you experience as a leader when the 697 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,920 growth sort of slowed? I mean, obviously, you alluded 698 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,720 to keeping the team motivated, but I'm just kind of curious to 699 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,920 hear what happened there. Yeah. 700 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,560 I mean, I think that, I think that's just kind of a bit of the 701 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,680 challenges when you're growing the business and Pangaea grew 702 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:04,440 from zero to 500 plus employees in three, 4-5 years. 703 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,520 And you know, obviously it's crazy. 704 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,040 You're trying to try to make sure you have a good process and 705 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,920 you're trying to improve all the time, but you're really, you're 706 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,920 really, it's exciting, you're pushing forward. 707 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,000 And a certain point when you're not growing as quickly, it 708 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,800 doesn't mean obviously the business collapsing. 709 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,440 That's when you actually become very profitable in theory 710 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,440 because if you're doing your job well, but then you have young 711 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,480 people that are looking for the next opportunity that might not 712 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,400 be there. And I think that's a bit of the 713 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,280 challenge that we saw. And and that's actually part of 714 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,480 the opportunity set at Stoke Wayne is we may have one 715 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,040 business that's not really growing, but hopefully we have 716 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,440 another business or two that presents great opportunity for 717 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,480 people to move to. Yeah. 718 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,040 But that was a bit of the challenge is how do you continue 719 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,360 to give, give that next generation of people amazing 720 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,360 opportunities that the prior generation had? 721 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,560 Yeah, that, I mean, that makes sense. 722 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,040 And yeah, I would imagine as as it gets stagnated, it's it's 723 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,040 just tough to convince, you know, you start to not retain 724 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,240 the talent and it's like, OK, well, and I, I assume what you 725 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:08,320 sold in 2020 or 2021, something like that, 2019. 726 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,000 So we we sold in a few in a two-part transaction. 727 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,800 I'd say it, it was a long deal. It's complicated, but we sold 728 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:23,200 originally the the first part of the portfolio in 2020 to and and 729 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,800 the rest of it, you know end of 23, so. 730 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,880 I suspect it was not so bad and in the end to. 731 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,880 You know, it worked out great for our investors who put their 732 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,320 trust in US and and ultimately like we, we have raised capital 733 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,440 from outsiders. Our outsiders eventually want 734 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,640 liquidity. And so we thought we might get a 735 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:43,960 chance to go public as a company. 736 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,600 We didn't for a number of different reasons, but also 737 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,360 growth, right, Like we didn't have that growth engine yeah, 738 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,680 available to us. And so we got the liquidity back 739 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,800 to our investors by selling the portfolio. 740 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,880 I think that's still playing. The plan is to go public and and 741 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,280 I think we'll have hopefully the opportunity to do that because 742 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,200 of the diversity of our businesses and the ability to 743 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,320 keep growing for hopefully the next the next 1015 plus years. 744 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,760 One of your verticals is accounting and I think that 745 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,800 there's a few, few companies, one is an Australian listed one 746 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,640 that's that's trying to do something similar. 747 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,880 So how are you finding the the bidding opportunity for 748 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:25,000 accountants and accountant firms? 749 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,160 You know, is it, is it more competitive incrementally or is 750 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,840 it, is it kind of, I don't know, fairly stable? 751 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,880 It's, it's pretty interesting because it feels to me like a 752 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,400 lot of investors and private equity, you know, private equity 753 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,360 investors and and search funds have discovered the opportunity 754 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,240 in the accounting sector at a pretty similar time. 755 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:50,080 But it's still really early because we got in, we've been 756 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,480 thinking about the opportunity set for the last year and a 757 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,640 half, two years. We started buying platforms 758 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,680 companies earlier this year. You know, folks, a few folks 759 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,440 started in the last couple of years, but it's a highly 760 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,560 fragmented space. There are 40,000 accounting 761 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,960 firms in the US. Many are very small. 762 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,920 The sub sector of the market we're focused on. 763 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,800 These are pretty small companies which which we like operating in 764 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,800 that space, but most people. Yeah, don't necessarily have the 765 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,440 stomach for it. It's, it's hard to execute on. 766 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,360 You have to be really efficient. So we think we still, there's 767 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,560 still opportunity, but it's challenging. 768 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,560 We're definitely seeing competitors come into the space. 769 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,440 But we think it ultimately comes down to how can you execute? 770 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,480 Can you actually operate then can you integrate these 771 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,880 companies and preserve the culture and the values of the 772 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,440 business that you're buying? And we think that we have a 773 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,920 unique ability to hopefully do that over time. 774 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,560 Yeah, I would think with accountants, especially some of 775 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,360 the the smaller firms, there's some element of key man risk 776 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,640 too, right. I I would think it's very 777 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,200 relationship driven. Yeah, I think that's true across 778 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,720 our businesses. I mean, that's what we've 779 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:57,520 gravitated to. It goes back to if you can 780 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,080 execute on that transition and make sure that people stick 781 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,240 around and ultimately you can, you can keep the relationships 782 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,280 happy. I think you do incredibly well. 783 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,920 But if you just buy the companies and you're an absentee 784 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,240 owner and you expect them to work, it's just not going to 785 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,680 work. So yeah, it's very similar 786 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,400 dynamic to our vacation rental business. 787 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,760 It's a relationship. Ultimately you could fire your 788 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,760 manager if you want to. And I think we've done a pretty 789 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,520 good job of providing a great experience and great opportunity 790 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,600 set for the owners that have sold to us. 791 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,560 Like I said, 20 F, 24 still with us. 792 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,480 Our hope is that that's consistent in the accounting 793 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,880 vertical that sellers really, really get excited about the 794 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,280 Stokeland vision and continue to be part of it. 795 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,640 And and therefore we have these smooth transitions that take a 796 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,160 long time and hopefully are pretty seamless that that the 797 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,760 clients actually get better features, better services and 798 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,920 don't decide. They don't, they don't need to 799 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,240 move on. They don't need to try to find 800 00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:58,360 somebody else. Yeah, I mean that that it makes 801 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,120 sense to me. And at least on paper, you know, 802 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,880 it's, it's the execution that's, that's the tough part, right? 803 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,280 No, 100% like me personally, for better, for worse, I, I like 804 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,880 taking on execution risk. I don't want to take on market 805 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,560 risk. You know, I think market risk is 806 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,160 this idea that I'm buying something because I think it's 807 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,920 going to go up in price. Like I don't, you know, that's 808 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,120 not my strength. I've never been a trader. 809 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:25,960 To me, we're buying something that if we can execute on our 810 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,920 plan, we'll create value because of the plan, but you have to 811 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,480 execute on. So how do you think of yourself 812 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,480 as an investor? I mean, are you willing to maybe 813 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,640 pay a little bit more and bet that your execution is a little 814 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,600 bit better so you'll be able to create more value? 815 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,520 Are you trying to buy things at like rock bottom prices and 816 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,160 improve them or? I mean, I know that's obviously 817 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,880 the Holy Grail. I'm just trying to think of like 818 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,960 your philosophy generally. I've talked to a few people that 819 00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,520 run companies that now, now they have shifted from trying to buy 820 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,720 like cheap turnarounds for lack of a better term. 821 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:06,240 They like to pay a little bit more and get a little bit better 822 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:08,600 of an enterprise. And that's, that's like in the 823 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,360 private world as well. The the Buffett transition, 824 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,440 yeah, I think, I think we're definitely you know, we're we're 825 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,680 price takers. You know, we're, we're we're 826 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,400 looking to to pay basically market because it's a 827 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,920 competitive market where and we're trying to buy companies 828 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,400 that are good companies that are growing and and they're 829 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,120 effective without us and because. 830 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,240 I think, I think that means that with our help hopefully and part 831 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,000 of a larger platform that actually grow faster and they'll 832 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,320 be better. But we're buying small companies 833 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,960 and so the market price for smaller companies is just lower 834 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,840 than bigger companies. And so our view on value is if 835 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,400 we can execute on this idea of creating scale, creating unified 836 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:54,000 brand, creating kind of consistent growth, the market 837 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,840 will reward us with a higher value based on the scale. 838 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,400 So if we don't need to get, you know, we don't need to squeeze 839 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,800 our owners. We want them to feel like 840 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,320 they've gotten a market price, you know, they've gotten a fair 841 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,800 price. We just want to be the easiest 842 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,400 person for them to deal with. So they want to work with us. 843 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,960 Now when you say unified brand, are you talking about, and I'm 844 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,520 only asking this because you, you had mentioned the real 845 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,760 estate company is sort of operate in regional brands are 846 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,760 so are you more talking about like what owners think of you as 847 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,560 or in the accounting vertical or are you actually rebranding in 848 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,240 going to market with like one brand? 849 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,120 Yeah, I think, I think it depends on the market. 850 00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:38,920 And like I said in vacation rental it it we're keeping the 851 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,720 local brands a little bit like the hotel. 852 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,040 You know Marriott has a number of different brands that that 853 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,600 they operate. It's a little bit of that 854 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,760 concept. In our other verticals we tend 855 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,800 to go with one brand. So our, our appraisal of real 856 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,760 estate valuation business with was eight different companies 857 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,520 that now we're all operating under one brand. 858 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,880 We call a scribe and they're doing great, they're providing 859 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,120 great service. Our accounting business is 860 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,600 called Archer Lewis. So ultimately all those 861 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,680 companies will be, will be operating under that brand. 862 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,120 And I, I think, I think that just creates consistency for the 863 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,200 clients over time, creates a, a more unified experience. 864 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,520 And so even in in our vacation rental business, we have 865 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,480 different local brands, but then there is one unified brand over 866 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,000 the top, which is called Monarch. 867 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,600 Yeah. So is it, is it like, I don't 868 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,440 know, Bill's property management, a Monarch company 869 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:33,680 basically. OK. 870 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,120 Yeah, that makes sense. Exactly. 871 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,320 What's going on in the in the real estate appraisal business? 872 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,360 I would imagine that rates have sort of punched it squarely in 873 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,240 the face. I know you know you execute as 874 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,880 well as you can, but when you're swimming against a tide like 875 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,440 that it it can get very difficult. 876 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,560 Yeah, it's been a challenging few years. 877 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,080 We, we came into the business underwriting high rates and so 878 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,880 we assumed volume would come off. 879 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,520 I don't think we quite assumed it would come off as hard as it 880 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,200 as it has where there's effectively no refinance 881 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:06,280 business. If we're talking about 882 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,520 residential real estate, there's, there's zero refinance 883 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,760 activity and purchase activity is at 40 year lows in the 884 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:13,880 industry. Yeah. 885 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,880 So we've definitely been challenged based on that. 886 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,840 At the same time, I think we've executed pretty well. 887 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,280 And so we're, we're just integrating the company into a 888 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,880 cohesive platform and we're picking up market share because 889 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,600 I think, I think our clients, basically banks and lenders, 890 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,680 servicers are happy with a unified national platform that 891 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,120 can deliver quickly and efficiently for them. 892 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,240 And so, you know, it's been challenging, but I think I think 893 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,080 we'll get to a good outcome there long term. 894 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,360 Yeah, well, it's not perpetual, right, but a temporary blip for 895 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,480 sure. Well, I think the market 896 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,000 stabilized mainly, mainly how how much worse could it get, but 897 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:50,760 it's pretty bad. It's there. 898 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,720 That's fair. If you do any office it could 899 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,840 get a little worse. But then again, you you might 900 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,320 need appraisals for for the hand and the keys back or whatever. 901 00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,320 We'll see. Yeah. 902 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,840 No, I mean, I think, I think we're excited about where that 903 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,760 business currently stands. And, and it's been, it's been a 904 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,840 challenging 12 to 18 months, but we're we're really excited about 905 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:08,920 the growth that we're seeing now. 906 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,080 Do you see any like sellers of appraisal? 907 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,400 But I mean what's the bid ask spread on some of those 908 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,360 businesses? I would imagine if you have one 909 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,000 a willing seller is hard to come by I guess is what I'm thinking. 910 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,400 Yeah, there, there really hasn't been that much activity. 911 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,960 You know, we, we're we're excited to be in the market. 912 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,440 We'll look at opportunities to get bigger and get the scale. 913 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,920 We're the 5th largest appraisal company in the US Are you really 914 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,880 our goal in it? Yeah. 915 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,360 So we, that's what we've put together. 916 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,600 Like I said, we've gotten, we've created a national platform. 917 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,280 Our goal is to be much larger than that. 918 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,320 So we do something like 20,000 appraisals a month, like pretty 919 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,120 big company, relatively speaking. 920 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,200 Our goal is to, to be #1 or #2 in every market in which we 921 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,880 operate. So we'd love to find ways to 922 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,400 scale and get bigger through acquisition and organic growth. 923 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,560 So we're we're just looking for opportunity. 924 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,440 Yeah. Generally and philosophically, 925 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:09,200 how do you think about sort of building moats in these 926 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,960 different businesses that you have? 927 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,080 I'd just be curious to hear you riff on that. 928 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:15,960 Yeah. No, I think it's a great 929 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,680 question. I think my experience has been, 930 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,760 you know, one of the challenges for real estate, my prior 931 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,280 experience where we were buying real estate is that pretty much 932 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,360 anybody that had capital could compete with us. 933 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,960 And that's why we ultimately sold the portfolio because there 934 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,080 was just too competitive, prices kept going higher and we 935 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,280 couldn't find anything to do and anything to buy. 936 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,520 And so we like the idea of competing in operating 937 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,120 companies, operating businesses where you have you have business 938 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,560 complexity, the capital markets are more challenging, you have 939 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,640 to have experience. So you have a limited set of 940 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,680 competitors that come into the market. 941 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,000 Basically we compete with middle market private equity firms. 942 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,960 You know, that's who that's who generally is, is going to try to 943 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,640 buy the same companies. We're trying to buy on the one 944 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,960 end and then strategics on the other end as we try to grow 945 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,040 these companies. I'd say on the buy side, part of 946 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,640 it is we go into verticals where you don't have a lot of platform 947 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,320 companies, bigger companies that private equity firms can come in 948 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,880 and buy. And we're built to buy much 949 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,680 smaller companies and we built the platforms. 950 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,680 So I think that's a unique advantage of our our Stoke Lane 951 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,160 thesis and how we execute. I think longer term, it's better 952 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,240 execution drives barriers to entry. 953 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,000 So better execution and continuous improvement. 954 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,760 That's been my experience. Because over time technology all 955 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,600 gets copied. You know, it's, it's whatever 956 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,600 unique kind of like formula you have, somebody's going to figure 957 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,080 it out. You drive better execution with 958 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,640 better culture, better people, and then continuously innovating 959 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,160 and cannibalizing what you already do. 960 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,320 And so that's, that's been kind of my focus is there's this book 961 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,520 I read years ago that I think we lays out culture in a formula 962 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,520 that, you know, like it's a way of thinking of the culture code, 963 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,320 which basically says, if you study seal team six and you 964 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,680 study winning sports teams and you study the best performing 965 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,200 businesses, what drives on this culture And culture is basically 966 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,200 having a unified vision of where you're going, having a team that 967 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:21,360 has trust so you can make mistakes and be OK and, and 968 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,560 you're not afraid to make those mistakes. 969 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,080 But at the same time, people will call out what's going on. 970 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,120 And so you're learning from those mistakes. 971 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,480 And you know, that's what we try to do. 972 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,080 We try to create great environments for the smartest, 973 00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:36,840 the most hard working, energetic people that want to come work 974 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,920 in. And ideally we try to recognize 975 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,160 who they are and try to push them up as quickly as we can. 976 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,480 And I think that drives better culture, long term meritocracy 977 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,600 and and ideally better results. And so you can try to compete 978 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,920 with us today based on what we have, but hopefully by the time 979 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,200 you're there, that's 12/18/20, four months down. 980 00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,760 We're we're so much further because we're constantly trying 981 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:05,640 to reinvent ourselves. How did you pick you know the Co 982 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,560 founders that are listed are Jake Nice and Matt Foran? 983 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,480 How did you you all come together? 984 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,800 Yeah, so, so I, I've known, you know, most of our, our team, 985 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,880 their people I've worked with in the past, I've known for a long 986 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,040 time. So Matt Ferran was actually my 987 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,960 high school fraternity brother. So I've known him forever, 25 988 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,560 years at this point, a joke. I think I ran his, his lines for 989 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,920 his budget class at some point. He still, and we still get 990 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:35,000 along, but him and I have actually never worked together 991 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,280 in the past, but we've always tried to because he was in the 992 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,320 insurance world, which is where fire finance, insurance and real 993 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,040 estate, it's very operational. And he previously built a 994 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,520 startup that I was too dumb to invest in and then sold it to a 995 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,200 big insurance company and then ran distribution for another 996 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,240 very large insurance company and just really unknows that world. 997 00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:57,000 And I think our experience, because I have more the 998 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,480 financial services real estate side, he has the insurance side 999 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,040 just blend together really well. And so we came together around 1000 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,200 this idea. And then Jake Nice, I actually 1001 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,760 pulled out of investment banking and he and he came to work at 1002 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,160 Avant as he was, I think employee 25 or 26. 1003 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,800 Yeah, his second job, you know, after investment banking, he 1004 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,760 worked for a former boss of mine, which is How I Met him. 1005 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,320 And so that was over 10 years ago and, and he was phenomenal. 1006 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,040 He ended up leaving us for his wife's residency to go and move 1007 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,240 to Columbus and him and I always talked about getting back 1008 00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:33,720 together and building something. So he was just getting back to 1009 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,080 young, hungry, smart person that, that I've had a ton of 1010 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,560 success working with those kind of people over many years. 1011 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,320 And we just came around this came together around this idea 1012 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,960 and COVID times and, and said, OK, we all, we all believe in 1013 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,840 this longer term compounding strategy. 1014 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,800 And how do we create something that's going to outlast the 1015 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,000 three of us and, and ideally surround ourselves with people 1016 00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:00,320 that that think very similarly. And we're four years in, still, 1017 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,560 still kind of moving forward. We have great teams that we've 1018 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,280 built around us and the Stoke Lane team's about 25 people at 1019 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,520 the The Holt Co, which is really supporting about 800 people 1020 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,640 across these various businesses that we've built up. 1021 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,400 Yeah, interesting. I wish I had more hold Co 1022 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,880 experience so I could ask you more relevant questions. 1023 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,640 I'm I'm interested in how you build it. 1024 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:23,320 How do you keep the team motivated? 1025 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,280 You know, those are those are some of the the questions I keep 1026 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,280 coming back to, but it sounds like. 1027 00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:31,560 You know, I keep asking myself those same questions, but I 1028 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,960 think I think ultimately, like my experiences, if you are 1029 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,480 surrounded by really smart, great people, it just rubs off. 1030 00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:42,520 And that's what motivates me more than anything is just 1031 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,440 working with great people who are fired up to go build stuff. 1032 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,680 And, and we can figure out the economic incentives. 1033 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,840 We can figure out OK, Like if we're building value and the 1034 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,800 business is doing well, hopefully there's a lot there's 1035 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,520 money to go around to make people happy. 1036 00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,880 But to me, the biggest motivator is really just be on a winning 1037 00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:01,920 team. I, you know, I grew up playing 1038 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,120 sports. My kids play sports. 1039 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,360 I'm a big believer in that is winning is fun. 1040 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,960 Everybody wants to win. Yeah, losing sucks. 1041 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,160 Losing sucks. Nobody wants to lose and but, 1042 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,320 but I think being part of a winning team professionally just 1043 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:20,120 means you're surrounded by a players who are pushing hard, 1044 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,000 who are driving hard and are teaching you stuff every day. 1045 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,440 So I'm coming to work to learn stuff from, you know, I, I was a 1046 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,160 young kid. Now I'm, I'm one of the oldest 1047 00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:32,600 people around the office, which, you know, kind of happen like 1048 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,320 that. But I, but I'm learning stuff 1049 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,640 every day, which, which is what motivates me. 1050 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,800 And I think, I think that's circular. 1051 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,840 I think that's this virtual cycle we're trying to create. 1052 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,360 How do you foster a you had mentioned, you know, the idea 1053 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,240 that that people are willing to speak up and disagree. 1054 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:52,320 How do you foster that kind of an organization? 1055 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:55,320 Yeah, I think it's a great question. 1056 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,520 I, I don't think you can do anything but just have it happen 1057 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:05,280 and react the right way and, and try to have just open dialogue, 1058 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,360 try to bring people in the tent and encourage people to 1059 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,240 participate. And I think people, people kind 1060 00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:14,960 of see that it's OK. I think in a big company, it 1061 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,080 just when you, where you have a lot of bureaucracy, it's very 1062 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,640 hard because nobody's doing it. So are you really going to be 1063 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,400 the first one that says, Hey, you like I got here 4 minutes 1064 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,920 ago, but I have this idea like people just don't do that. 1065 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:32,400 Whereas if from day one it's pretty clear that hey, I might 1066 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,520 have, you know, I might be CEO, whatever that means. 1067 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,240 But everybody constantly tells me all the reasons I'm wrong and 1068 00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:41,760 I'm OK with it. Like like. 1069 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,480 I think you get the hint. Yeah. 1070 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,480 Yeah. Well, I think it's, I think 1071 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,240 it's, it's, it seems to be a commonality of different 1072 00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:54,280 organizations that are probably largely tech focused. 1073 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,680 But there was, there was a guest on here, he wrote a book called 1074 00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,400 The Geek Way. And that was one, one of the 1075 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,560 sort of foundational principles of a lot of the businesses that 1076 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,800 he has followed and kind of admires is the willingness to 1077 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,480 foster not necessarily agreement and not necessarily 1078 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,080 disagreement, but honest conversation. 1079 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,400 Yeah, exactly, 'cause who you know, who knows? 1080 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,640 I would be remiss if I didn't tell you. 1081 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,280 We we talked about winning and losing. 1082 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,880 My grandfather used to say show me a good loser and I'll show 1083 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:29,440 you a loser, though. That's that's my, that's my 1084 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,920 grandfather. 'S Oh yeah, no, I, I can't say 1085 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,920 I, I don't say similar stuff to my kids sometimes even though I 1086 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,840 I regret it. Yeah, I don't know that you 1087 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,720 should regret it. I think it's a good lesson. 1088 00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,880 I mean, when you're talking to your kids and like, how do you 1089 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,600 put into perspective what you had growing up versus what they 1090 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,880 have now? Can you? 1091 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,200 Yeah, I think it, I don't think so. 1092 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,000 I think it's really hard. My wife and I talk about it. 1093 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,160 We're both immigrant kids. You know, it's, it's, it's like 1094 00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,760 a foreign language. It's lived experience. 1095 00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,160 I think we continue to do it nonetheless and, and continue to 1096 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:08,080 just kind of I, I actually think sports is a great allegory for 1097 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,400 life. And, and it doesn't have to be 1098 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,800 sports, just competition in general. 1099 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,440 It could be chess, it could be robotics, you know, it could be 1100 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,600 anything. But I think this idea of being 1101 00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,160 in a competitive environment where it doesn't matter how much 1102 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,920 money you have or your parents have, or, you know, you fly 1103 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,840 first class or business or you fly private. 1104 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,080 Like none of that matters if you don't perform on the field or 1105 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,240 you don't perform in your tournament And you have to deal 1106 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,760 with that stress and you have to be able to kind of interpolate 1107 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,400 it, put it aside and still perform. 1108 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,080 I think that's, that's kind of a great, great allegory for how 1109 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,480 life is. And then they, you know, if, if 1110 00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,880 you get a little bit of help to get through college and get your 1111 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,960 first job, great. But you got to show up and you 1112 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,160 got to perform. And, and that's what I try to 1113 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,360 tell my kids is like it, it doesn't matter. 1114 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,680 Like the material stuff is great, whatever, it doesn't 1115 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,840 really matter. Perform, you know, train, 1116 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,760 training makes you better improve your skills and 1117 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,200 ultimately you got to be able to deal with the the anxiety, you 1118 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,080 got to be able to deal with the stress and perform. 1119 00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:19,760 And if you do, things will turn out great. 1120 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,360 I like that that's that is solid advice. 1121 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,160 I mean, I don't know if it'll work. 1122 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,280 No, it works. It definitely works. 1123 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,120 I'm, I'm sort of dealing with it with my second. 1124 00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,360 He's, he's like naturally pretty good at a lot of stuff, but he's 1125 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:39,600 hitting this like plateau where his natural ability can only 1126 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,520 take him so far. And now he's, he's running into 1127 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,160 kids that are working harder. And it's like, dude, you got to 1128 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,080 work like that's, that's just what it is. 1129 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:50,760 No, I mean, it's kind of amazing. 1130 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,040 I think I hit that natural ability plateau extremely early 1131 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,320 in my. Yeah, I did too. 1132 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,880 He didn't get all my genes. Those are his mother. 1133 00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,200 'S my wife, my wife is is got the more the natural athleticism 1134 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,120 I I joked. She gave the kids the genetics 1135 00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,840 on the athleticism. And I have the cattle prod. 1136 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:08,280 That's OK. But but I was a wrestler growing 1137 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,440 up and like wrestling is a is a grind sport. 1138 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,280 You know, you just got to work. And I think, I think it's, it's 1139 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,240 like a great way to learn that you might be better naturally, 1140 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,480 but that lasts like a minute before the workers get ahead of 1141 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,640 you. Yeah, yeah, that is good 1142 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,600 lessons. The the earlier we can teach 1143 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:31,400 them the better too, which is why I, I, I agree with you on 1144 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,920 sports, right. It's like something like cannot 1145 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,160 be denied if if they care about it or whatever your competitive 1146 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,280 desire is. Yeah, exactly. 1147 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,640 I you know, I like, I like sports, but whatever it is. 1148 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,360 Yeah, Yeah, whatever gets you fired up. 1149 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,400 Yeah, you can't fake it through chess, right? 1150 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,600 Like eventually somebody's just better and they're gonna beat 1151 00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,080 you so. Yeah, of. 1152 00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,800 Course, Yeah, cool man. Well, I've, I've enjoyed the 1153 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,560 chat and I like how you're going about what you're going about. 1154 00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,800 I mean, like I said, when we when we first started talking, I 1155 00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,680 was like, OK, it's a GPLP sort of like. 1156 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,120 Not, I don't want to say like another one, right, but then you 1157 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,720 mentioned that it was AAC Corp and and your long term vision 1158 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,920 and you know, I'd be remiss to say that people should reach out 1159 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,280 to you if they like what they heard and they're potentially 1160 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,760 interested in investing right. I, I think that would be a call 1161 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,240 that you'd be willing to take and you all, you all can go 1162 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,640 through the formalities of accreditation and all that, but. 1163 01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:28,640 You are. That would be amazing, right? 1164 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,360 So we're looking to grow. We have till the end of this 1165 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,080 year to continue to raise capital, which we're actively 1166 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,200 talking to people that buy into our vision and we have a long 1167 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,880 term mindset, you know, so could continue to hopefully be able to 1168 01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:43,800 expand our opportunity set. All right. 1169 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,480 Well, I hope that we introduced you to a few people here and I 1170 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,920 hope that, you know it was a beneficial use of your time. 1171 01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:51,320 I'll have to make it down to Miami and say hi in person. 1172 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,000 Yeah, well, I'll make it your way too. 1173 01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,200 All right. Well, either way it. 1174 01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,160 Works all right, man. Have a good one. 1175 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,040 Stay cool out there. It's about to get hot. 1176 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,320 It's a hot one. All right, have a good one. 1177 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:04,520 I'll talk to you. Bye.