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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
The Business Brew. 

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I am your host, Bill Brewster. 
This episode features Heda 

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Nadler of Mountain Nadler. 
I really enjoyed this 

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conversation. 
Heda is a heck of a person and 

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she talks a little bit about how
she grew up and what it 

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instilled in her. 
And I think that is one of the 

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cooler parts of the 
conversation. 

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And I think that if I were an 
asset manager and thinking about

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how might I market my firm, 
listening to this conversation 

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with Heta could add some value 
and I might consider giving Heta

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a call. 
So that's my pitch. 

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I thought, she's a very cool 
person. 

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That's what I got. 
This episode is sponsored by 

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As always, nothing in the show 

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is financial advice. 
Please consult an investment 

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advisor before making investment
decisions. 

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Everything in the show is for 
entertainment purposes and 

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educational purposes. 
And do your own due diligence. 

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All right, Ladies and gentlemen,
thrilled to be joined by Heta 

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Nadler today of Mountain Nadler.
How's it going, Heta. 

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Oh. 
Terrific. 

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Thank you for having me on, 
Bill. 

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Well, you're very welcome. 
I believe that we have a common 

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connection with William Green. 
Yes. 

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Oh. 
Absolutely. 

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There you go. 
I'm a big fan. 

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Yeah, he's a good dude. 
Yes. 

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Do you want to talk a little bit
about what Mountain Adler does 

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and your background, just to 
sort of give context to the 

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conversation? 
Absolutely. 

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Mountain Adler, we're based in 
New York City. 

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We are a 40 plus year old public
relations firm and we represent 

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asset managers, mutual funds, 
ETFs and try to get their story 

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across in the Press of all sorts
and help them accomplish their 

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goals of typically attracting 
clients assets. 

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What led you to to this business
that you started or that you 

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run? 
Allan Math and I had worked 

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previously together at a 
financial PR firm which had a 

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focus on mutual funds. 
At the time, they also did IR, 

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which we were capable of doing, 
but we ended up when we started 

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out attracting mutual fund 
clients because that's kind of 

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where we had the exposure from 
the prior firm. 

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And correct me if I'm wrong, but
it seems as though your client 

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SKU seems to have a value tilt 
or is that just something that 

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that we've talked about more 
because that's what I tilt 

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towards. 
Yeah. 

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We ended up fortuitously ending 
up with a lot of value investor 

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clients. 
One of our very first clients 

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was Mutual Shares Corp, which 
was the forerunner to Mutual 

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series funds which were run by 
Michael Price, the legendary 

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investor and Max Heine who was 
his mentor. 

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And we started to promote those 
two funds. 

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They had two $106 million at the
time and they wanted to attract 

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IRA money, which was new and we 
helped them do that. 

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And the story of the funds were 
so fascinating because they were

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value managers, very 
traditional. 

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And also they invested in 
Chapter 11 companies as they 

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emerged from Chapter 11. 
And Max had a particular 

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fascination with bankrupt bonds.
And I understand that Mutual 

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Series to this day still has 
some of the bankrupt Penn 

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Central bonds in the portfolio. 
Oh wow, that's interesting. 

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It is. 
So how does that conversation go

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when you get on the phone with 
them? 

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I mean, these guys looking back 
at it are legends at the time. 

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Did you know that they would, 
that they had something special 

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or how do you sift through the 
clients that you Rep and? 

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Well, we. 
Did or some clients different? 

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Of course we did know they were 
special because at the time 

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Mutual Shares Corp was had been 
founded in 1949 and was 

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compounding at about 12% a year.
And also they had this unusual 

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value bent. 
They were no load, which was 

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something we had to explain to 
the press back in the day 

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because most of the funds were 
sold by brokers or sales people 

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of one form or another. 
And so they not only had stellar

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performance, but they had that 
little bit of extra sauce which 

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is buying some of these Chapter 
11 companies. 

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And I might add, it was also at 
a time where I had to explain to

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the media what Chapter 11 was. 
Things have changed a bit, huh? 

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Yes, exactly. 
So going along the line of 

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things have changed, I mean what
is, what is the ETF industry 

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done to your business and the 
people that you represent? 

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Have the structures changed a 
lot over time? 

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Have the styles changed over 
time, or is it kind of more of 

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the same? 
It's kind of more of the same, 

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Bill, but I have to say in the 
asset management business, it 

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looks like there's plenty of 
room under the tent. 

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So you end up with mutual fund 
organizations that are now 

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casting their net in the ETF 
space as well. 

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And you end up with traditional 
mutual fund and asset manager 

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organizations that are sticking 
to their last. 

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They're not going into the ETF 
space. 

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They're perhaps expanding with 
more funds in different areas or

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continuing to do what they've 
always done because they've been

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successful doing it. 
Yeah, it's interesting. 

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The ETF wrapper seems to be 
packaged in a tax efficient 

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manner. 
I think some of your clients I I

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can't speak for all of them, but
some of them I think makes sense

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to not be in the ETF wrapper, if
that makes sense. 

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It could be. 
We do have a harder Capital 

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Advisors has both, they have a 
suite of mutual funds and they 

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have a suite of ETFs. 
So I think it depends on the 

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manpower and resources and also 
they don't want to 

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disintermediate any of the 
money. 

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So if they're doing well with 
specific audiences in this case,

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there's a lot of moving of the 
advisor community. 

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They just want if it ain't broke
and don't fix it. 

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You know, yeah, yeah, that makes
sense. 

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What do you think that managers 
may lack or and and maybe it's 

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just scale, right? 
I don't mean this on a 

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personality basis, but I mean, 
what is it that drives people to

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hire y'all and why have you been
successful for so long? 

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I think there's probably a 
discussion at the firm perhaps 

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at many levels where they 
understand that they are, they 

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have a secret sauce, if you 
will, in whatever space they're 

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operating in and they want to 
get the word out because they're

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not attracting assets. 
So marketing is a very key 

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element of running a business. 
I always think back to the tech 

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bubble and a lot of those 
organizations had great ideas, 

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great licenses, great patents, 
but they didn't know how to run 

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a business they never marketed. 
So they ended up going down in 

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flames. 
And I think in asset management 

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companies, somebody might 
attract a few clients, 

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shareholders here and there, but
they realize that they're better

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than a peer or a competitor, but
the competitor has marketing and

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they don't. 
So they look to someone like 

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ourselves, we tend to attract 
more of a boutique type of asset

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manager and we almost become 
their marketing department. 

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And we're happy to do that by 
the way. 

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So it isn't just the public 
relations. 

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We will give them counsel on 
whether they should present at a

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certain organization. 
We'll help them draft emails. 

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We'll give them guidance on 
content strategy depending on 

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what's relevant and their 
comfort level. 

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We're very careful about making 
certain that our clients are 

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very comfortable in whatever 
activity we pursue with. 

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It's funny, I There's a school 
of thought that says just put up

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returns and the money will find 
you. 

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And I'm curious to hear your 
response to that. 

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I I think you know what you're 
gonna say, but I'm curious to 

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hear. 
No, I'm gonna say that short 

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term that might very well be 
true, but the money leaves 

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quickly. 
Also is the minute that the 

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returns take a dip or you 
underperform and we have clients

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that they know that they need to
market month in and month out, 

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good returns, bad returns. 
And we also find that during bad

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times, quote UN quote, the money
tends to be stickier with a lot 

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of our clients because the 
investor has read about them or 

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heard them on TV or heard them 
speak at a webinar or a seminar.

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And they know that the client 
stays in touch with them with 

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marketing materials. 
So they're much more comfortable

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with the investments and they're
not as performance driven. 

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A lot of the performance driven 
clients are short term, which 

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really is not the most ideal 
client for a fund or asset 

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manager. 
That's interesting. 

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I've I figured that you were 
going to say that sometimes if a

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tree falls in the woods, no one 
hears it, right? 

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And sometimes you got to get out
there. 

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And I think that there is either
a skill set mismatch, a lack of 

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time or some other reason that 
that sometimes marketing and 

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asset management just don't go 
together and provides a nice 

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place for you to occupy in the 
ecosystem. 

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Yes. 
And we're very, we prepare our 

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clients. 
We educate our clients about 

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public relations. 
There's different routes you can

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take. 
We have clients that don't want 

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to be on TV, don't want to speak
or they have budget constraints.

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They only have X amount of 
resources to apply to the 

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marketing effort. 
And so we try to make them happy

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with whatever marketing or PR 
activities that we pursue. 

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All was annoyed towards 
achieving the goal of attracting

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assets. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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What was your early career like?
What did a young Heta Nadler 

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would come on the PR? 
How'd you find yourself in 

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finances of all niches? 
I graduated with a degree from 

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Baruch College in Psychology. 
I found out that I needed a 

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Master's or a PhD to pursue 
being a child psychologist, 

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which was my aspiration at the 
time. 

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And I went now because I wasn't 
like a student or I didn't care 

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for it. 
So I had secretarial skills 

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because I came from a poorer 
background. 

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So I had to work when I was in 
high school and college. 

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And so I had taken speed 
writing, which was a form of 

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shorthand, and typing and 
bookkeeping. 

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So I was able to get summer 
jobs, weekend jobs when I was in

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high school and college, and I 
when I graduated from college, I

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said, well you know what? 
I like writing, so I'm going to 

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see if I can be a secretary in 
advertising, PR, journalism or 

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publishing because all of them 
use writing skills. 

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I went to an agency which 
charged the employer. 

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At the time, there were only two
in the city that charged the 

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employer. 
Otherwise, the employee paid and

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I was not about to do that. 
I was a value girl right from 

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the get go. 
And they yeah. 

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That doesn't sound like a great 
deal. 

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00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:07,840
You can come here and yeah. 
And they said we have a job with

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a financial PR firm. 
And I said, oh, perfect, because

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I'm great with numbers. 
So I had no idea what a 

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financial fee offer was because 
with a poor background, you 

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don't invest, you're just trying
to figure out how to get the 

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grocery money every week. 
So I went to the firm and he 

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hired me. 
He didn't want to hire me 

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because my my steno skills were 
slower than someone who took 

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stenography. 
I just took speed writing. 

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00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,160
And I convinced him to hire me. 
And I said, listen, every letter

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is going to be perfect and the 
punctuation will be perfect, 

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etcetera, etcetera. 
I said if you don't like it, 

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00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,640
after a week, you can fire me. 
And of course, I did a great 

230
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,400
job, 'cause I was totally 
overqualified, but I was happy I

231
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,280
got a job. 
I would listen to the guys at 

232
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,560
the firm talk about how they 
needed a news release on Bill 

233
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,280
Brewster being named the 
director of a particular fund. 

234
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,120
He was representing some mutual 
funds. 

235
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,960
And I would take the information
home and I'd write the news 

236
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,840
release and I'd bring it in. 
And I would say, oh, I heard you

237
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,080
needed a release on this. 
So I took the limit. 

238
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,680
I did it at home. 
So they started to rely on me 

239
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,680
for these kind of basic news 
releases. 

240
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,600
I was still secretary. 
He fired the office manager. 

241
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,320
Now I was managing the office 
and doing these little news 

242
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,680
releases. 
I guess I was multitasking 

243
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,080
before the charm came into 
existence. 

244
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,240
But I was very happy doing it. 
I was very comfortable doing it 

245
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,640
because I figured I'd quote, 
make something of myself. 

246
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,480
And lo and behold, four years 
later as vice president of the 

247
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,960
company and I'm managing all the
clients accounts. 

248
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,200
And he was a little put out 
because he had to actually hire 

249
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,440
a new secretary. 
And he said I was the best 

250
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,560
secretary he ever. 
Had he said if I'm VP, I could 

251
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,640
no longer be secretary? 
I'm sorry. 

252
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,160
Exactly, yeah. 
And Alan Mounts, who founded the

253
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,800
firm with me, extremely 
talented, very creative. 

254
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,480
We had a very similar work 
ethic. 

255
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,560
He worked at that same firm. 
So we knew he could work 

256
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:16,200
together and we decided to go 
out on our own and see if we 

257
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,840
could attract some IR clients 
and mutual fund clients. 

258
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,360
We didn't do so well in the IR 
department, but we started to 

259
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,680
have some mutual funds come to 
us and then each it built on 

260
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,720
that because somebody would ask 
the mutual fund how do they get 

261
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,120
that story in Money magazine and
they would say, oh, Mountain 

262
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,200
Nadler. 
And so it was good even to this 

263
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,840
day, Bill, we get a lot of 
clients through word of mouth, 

264
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,040
whether it's from other clients 
or journalists. 

265
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:44,960
So it it. 
Interesting. 

266
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,880
So, so when you were on one side
of the business, you need to 

267
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,360
track the mutual fund clients or
the investing clients. 

268
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,640
On the other side, you needed to
attract and cultivate 

269
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,320
relationships with some of the 
financial media, the press, 

270
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,240
right? 
So. 

271
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,120
So what did your day look like 
when you were going between 

272
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,600
those? 
I mean, were you trying to set 

273
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,840
up coffees with reporters and 
whatnot? 

274
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,040
It was wonderful. 
We'd meet people in person all 

275
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,240
the time, you know, 'cause there
was no emails, there was no 

276
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,000
texting. 
And even today, all right, I 

277
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,760
have to admit it. 
I will call a reporter, OK. 

278
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,600
After I've emailed them and he 
or she hasn't responded. 

279
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,600
And I know it's a perfect 
situation where they ask me for 

280
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,000
something specifically and they 
never responded. 

281
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,480
And I'll call in. 
And I every time I call 

282
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,880
someone's like, oh, I'm so glad 
you called because I missed that

283
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,240
e-mail or I was wondering what 
happens or you ended up in spam,

284
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,840
that kind of thing. 
We do the same kind of thing 

285
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,240
today, Bill, to some degree, 
which is we go out to lunch with

286
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,200
reporters, we'll take, we'll go 
coffee, breakfast because we 

287
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,280
want to be able to talk to the 
reporter about the various 

288
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,000
clients, sources that we have 
and to get a sense of what it is

289
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,640
they're looking for, how can we 
help them. 

290
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,520
And because it isn't just 
feature coverage, I wish it 

291
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,839
were, but we want to say to 
them, we have a client who's an 

292
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,960
expert in energy or there's a 
healthcare maven at this 

293
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,119
organization or we've got guys 
that could talk macro. 

294
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,280
Of course we talk the value. 
They come to us for value a lot 

295
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,960
of times, which is great. 
Yeah. 

296
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,240
Well, that's so interesting. 
Part of what I was getting at is

297
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,359
when you think about the asset 
management business, it's so 

298
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,000
time intensive and there's so 
much research that goes into it 

299
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,280
that I presume you almost need 
an arm go out and cultivate 

300
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,080
these other relationships. 
And the nice thing that you have

301
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,560
provided clients over time is 
sort of the ability to outsource

302
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,760
that, right? 
And I'm sure there's puts and 

303
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,040
takes from a financial 
standpoint, if I'm your client 

304
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,920
that I'm doing that, but at 
least I don't have the fixed 

305
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,640
cost and the time of training 
people to do that. 

306
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,840
And you've got the relationships
and it's got to be fairly 

307
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,960
symbiotic, I would think. 
Yes, it is. 

308
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,920
That said though, if we have a 
client that comes to us and they

309
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:08,560
invest in infrastructure and but
my colleagues and I are not 

310
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,280
familiar with the journalists 
that cover that we will seek 

311
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,120
them out and we'll start to 
forge a relationship with them 

312
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,560
if it's possible. 
So we can add that quiver, that 

313
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,240
arrow to our quiver, but we do 
have the relationships and 

314
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,400
that's one of the things we 
pride ourselves on. 

315
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,240
And I think the media will back 
me up. 

316
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:33,520
We will go to journalists with 
relevant story ideas and they 

317
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,840
will often say that they 
appreciate that if they see an 

318
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,040
e-mail from us, they know it's 
something that they may have an 

319
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,440
interest in. 
Yeah, yeah. 

320
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,000
And. 
That's important. 

321
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,880
Yeah, your approach on that 
reminds me a little bit of 

322
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,080
hearing that somebody needs a a 
news release and you're the one 

323
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,280
that goes and does it at home 
and solves the problem for the 

324
00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:58,840
person. 
It sounds like you're a problem 

325
00:18:58,840 --> 00:18:59,840
solver. 
Correct. 

326
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,680
We're problem solvers. 
We like to work smart. 

327
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,920
We always say we are very 
collegial in the office because 

328
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,080
everyone is bright and we can 
exchange ideas. 

329
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,960
We don't always take each 
other's suggestions, but it's 

330
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,760
certainly good to hear all sides
of the equation. 

331
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,240
And that's the same with clients
and reporters also. 

332
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,400
Do you mind going in a little 
bit into your background and 

333
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,320
your childhood? 
I'm curious how you got the work

334
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:29,240
ethic and the problem solver. 
Sort of that's a knack that that

335
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,280
I've, I've always heard, right? 
You want to get ahead in life, 

336
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,320
solve people's problems, right? 
So how did you do that? 

337
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:36,800
Sort of. 
Not innately. 

338
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,240
But how did you learn to do 
that? 

339
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:41,040
I know this is weird to say, but
it's almost an advantage to him 

340
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,960
grown up in a poor family 
because you have to be 

341
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,680
resourceful if you wanted 
something. 

342
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,600
When I was 11 and 12 years old, 
I was tutoring in math. 

343
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,320
Some of my neighbor's kids. 
I remember you're going to 

344
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,240
laugh. 
I got $3.00 an hour which was 

345
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,600
like a gold mine. 
Yeah, it was different back 

346
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,800
then. 
But there wasn't extra money. 

347
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,360
When you're a tween or a teen, 
there was no extra money to go 

348
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:15,680
to the movies or to buy makeup 
or custom jewelry or stuff that 

349
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,280
kids want to do. 
So I grew up with two sisters. 

350
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,240
I was the neglected middle 
child. 

351
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,080
I'm sorry. 
All of us, interestingly enough,

352
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,360
we're into numbers. 
I mean, I was originally an 

353
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,400
accounting major at Peru, but I 
was good at it, but I didn't 

354
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,560
like it, you know, so I. 
Can understand that, Yeah. 

355
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,240
My oldest sister who 
unfortunately is deceased. 

356
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:44,640
She was an A tax accountant, 
self-taught, never went to 

357
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,800
school, never did anything 
beyond high school, and she was 

358
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,880
enrolled agent. 
She was able to plead cases at 

359
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,160
the federal court level, 
etcetera, etcetera. 

360
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,640
Wow, I know. 
My younger sister is a PhD in 

361
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,560
applied math and teaches 
statistics at the Baruch MBA 

362
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,200
level. 
Wow. 

363
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,560
So there must have been now. 
My dad was a mailman, huh? 

364
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,920
My mother worked nights to make 
ends meet, but they were always 

365
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,200
my father, had a lot of St. 
sports and my mom was very 

366
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,280
polite and had a lot of 
integrity and they would always 

367
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:25,640
push us gently or motivate us 
well. 

368
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,800
If you want that, see if you can
get it. 

369
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,920
And they always taught us to be 
respectful and caring and to do 

370
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,680
the best job possible. 
And I think we just grew up with

371
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,120
that wonderful work ethic and 
when. 

372
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,960
And it's just like I had to work
through high school. 

373
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,960
I mean, what kids work from high
school other than paper routes 

374
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,880
or something like that. 
But I had to. 

375
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,720
It wasn't a choice. 
I mean, I had to. 

376
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,120
And oh, well, my grandmother was
very influential in my life. 

377
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,000
My grandmother lives on the 
second floor of the building. 

378
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,520
We lived on the third floor of 
the apartment building. 

379
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,600
My aunt and uncle lived right 
next door to us. 

380
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,800
This was the days of extended 
families. 

381
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,640
So if you went home and nobody 
was home, you just went to 

382
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,640
whoever's door was open. 
Yeah, but my grandmother, she 

383
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,160
always used to tell me I was 
special and I started to believe

384
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,480
it. 
Well, good for her. 

385
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,240
Good for her for planting that 
seed. 

386
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,960
I know my big regret is she 
passed away when I was like 16 

387
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,440
because she would have been 
really proud of me and I would 

388
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,240
have been able to help her 
afford to. 

389
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,400
She always had a dream to go to 
Florida in the cold weather and 

390
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,040
stuff like that, but that's. 
But I digress. 

391
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:38,520
Yeah, So I think there was 
something in the There was 

392
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,840
something in the water when we 
were growing up that made all 

393
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,560
three of us overachievers. 
We didn't know we were 

394
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,320
overachievers. 
We just did what we thought was 

395
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,880
the proper thing to do and 
strive for. 

396
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,840
Yeah, I wonder if it was having 
that much family around in a 

397
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,600
support system that encouraged 
you to go out and do things. 

398
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,920
I have a a friend that owns a 
Chick-fil-A around here and I 

399
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,440
was talking to him about who are
the best kid, who are the best 

400
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,960
people to hire. 
And he said within I didn't even

401
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,400
get the words out of my mouth. 
And he said homeschool kids 

402
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,120
because they can come in at noon
and they usually have to work 

403
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,760
like to support their family on 
average in our area. 

404
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,360
And he's like, you get those 
kids and they want it and they 

405
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,880
need it and they're trainable 
and they see a career path in 

406
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,480
front of them and and they're 
willing. 

407
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,200
To work pretty. 
Interesting answer. 

408
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,400
Yes, exactly, exactly. 
We were taught nothing is going 

409
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,200
to just come our way. 
You need to work to earn what it

410
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,760
is that you're looking to 
achieve. 

411
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,000
So, so we were OK with that. 
So there was no resentment. 

412
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:49,120
It was motivation, although I 
must. 

413
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:50,760
Say it's an interesting 
perspective. 

414
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,440
I like that perspective. 
Yeah, but you know what, Bill? 

415
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:59,600
I grew up in an era where it was
not common for girls to go to 

416
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,880
college because what's the 
point? 

417
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,200
You go to college, you graduate,
you get married and have kids 

418
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,120
and you stay home. 
So I pursued college. 

419
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,920
I wanted to go to college, and 
then when I graduated from 

420
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,800
college, I got married shortly 
thereafter. 

421
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,080
Because in those days you got 
married when you were in your 

422
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,920
20s. 
Different times. 

423
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,600
I know. 
And because I had achieved vice 

424
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,600
presidentship at the company, I 
didn't want to stop working to 

425
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,720
have a child. 
So I decided I would continue to

426
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,080
work. 
And this is at a time where 

427
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,080
there were no maternity leave, 
there was no daycare centers. 

428
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,080
There was no consideration given
in those days. 

429
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,360
And you're talking 4050 years 
ago. 

430
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,120
And so I just made arrangements 
to have someone come in the 

431
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:48,680
morning and take care of my 
daughter. 

432
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,880
I worked every day in my 
pregnancy. 

433
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,120
Oh my God. 
Birth on Sunday and I felt fine.

434
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,000
By the way, I think attitude 
helps. 

435
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,160
I work Friday. 
I gave birth Sunday. 

436
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:00,840
I took two weeks vacation and I 
went back to work. 

437
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,520
Wow. 
And I never looked back. 

438
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,800
Who took care of the baby? 
I had a woman who I had lined up

439
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:13,640
three women when I was in my 9th
month of pregnancy, excuse me. 

440
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,360
And I called the first woman 
when I gave birth and she had 

441
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,760
just had emergency gallbladder 
operation. 

442
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,240
So I called the second woman and
I had said to the second and 

443
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,080
third women that I picked 
someone who had a little more 

444
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,040
experience, but if that didn't 
work out, I'd like to call on 

445
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,480
them. 
And the second woman was happy 

446
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,160
to do the job. 
She took her bus every morning. 

447
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,320
I lived in Yonkers at the time. 
She came to the house super 

448
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,520
reliable and she left when I 
came home at night and I was 

449
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,760
happy to be with my daughter, 
whom I have a close relationship

450
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,520
with to this day, 
notwithstanding that I worked. 

451
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,880
Yeah, well, I think she probably
understands who her mother is, 

452
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,160
and it sounds like you're a 
pretty special person. 

453
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,480
She does. 
And people said to me, oh, did 

454
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,680
you spend quality time with her?
I said every minute I spent with

455
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,640
her was quality trying. 
Trust me, you don't have to say 

456
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,320
Oh, from 11:00 to 2:00 will be 
quality time. 

457
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,600
Well, I respect that. 
I have mixed feelings on 

458
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,040
quantity, verse quality, but I 
suspect that when you have that 

459
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,760
kind of fire in your belly, the 
quality time is seem like 

460
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,920
somebody that's very good at 
focusing on what's in front of 

461
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,320
you and accomplishing it. 
Exactly, and figuring out how to

462
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,680
do it if it's at all possible. 
Yeah. 

463
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,080
And what was it like as a woman 
VP back in those days? 

464
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,080
One, you said you didn't have 
any maternity leave. 

465
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:38,960
I would think you didn't have 
too many peers. 

466
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,200
Now the PR business tends to 
attract talented people who can 

467
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,160
write well. 
So to that degree I was 

468
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,200
fortunate that I was in PR. 
It's almost like being in the 

469
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,920
arts. 
It simply doesn't matter what 

470
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,800
your agenda is if you have the 
talent. 

471
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,160
But it was still mostly male 
dominated and the fact that I 

472
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:03,040
was able to breakthrough from 
Secretary to Vice President and 

473
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:08,160
account Executive was telling 
the progress that was going 

474
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,320
forth for women at the time. 
I never really looked at myself 

475
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,840
as a woman per SE, but just 
someone who wanted to be 

476
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,640
successful and was talented at 
multitasking writing people 

477
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,040
skills. 
I get along with anyone whom I 

478
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,760
choose to get along with careful
words, right? 

479
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:30,920
I like that. 
I like that you. 

480
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,840
Just have to figure out how 
people are wired and then just a

481
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,960
deal with them. 
You can't deal with everyone the

482
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,360
exact same way because 
everybody's wired differently. 

483
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,160
Nothing is wrong. 
It's just and in the asset 

484
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,640
management business, you got a 
lot of numbers, people and a lot

485
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,160
of quantitative mindsets, 
mechanical mindsets. 

486
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,680
So we're very good at getting 
along with all of our clients 

487
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,200
and being able to be successful 
for them. 

488
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,200
You're bringing up some 
personality traits, so I'm 

489
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,840
curious, over your time, what 
are there certain personality 

490
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,800
traits among investors that 
you've seen that you think 

491
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,320
there's commonalities among 
successful investors, or do they

492
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,640
come in all different shapes and
sizes? 

493
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,400
Yeah. 
They do come in shapes and sizes

494
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,520
as far as value investors are 
concerned. 

495
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,560
In William Green's book, Richard
Wiser, Happier, he really dwells

496
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,520
on the personality as opposed to
someone looking for a certain 

497
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,520
balance sheet numbers or income 
statements or earnings per 

498
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,440
share, etcetera. 
And they from my perspective, 

499
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,240
these successful value managers 
see things from a different 

500
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,440
view, if you will. 
You and I could look at the same

501
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,120
thing and they see a potential 
opportunity there or something 

502
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,720
to question or pursue. 
And you and I are saying, well, 

503
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,640
it just looks like a tree to me,
you know, but they're thinking, 

504
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,000
oh, I wonder about the lumber 
industry and I'm wondering what 

505
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,640
the shortage of houses is there 
going to be a pick up is? 

506
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,200
So. 
So they do have a different 

507
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,800
perspective and they tend to 
look at the world as prospective

508
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,680
opportunities for them to at 
least explore, to explore. 

509
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,720
And I do find that they're nice.
They're kind of comfortable 

510
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,200
being themselves. 
And Michael Price, I went into a

511
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,800
meeting that Michael Price was 
speaking at 600 people he was 

512
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,000
talking to. 
I walked into the room and he 

513
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,440
rushed over to me and he said 
let me take your coat. 

514
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,240
No, that's nice. 
And I said, Michael, you're 

515
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,560
supposed to be talking any 
minute. 

516
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,840
I'm OK. 
Take your coat. 

517
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,200
It's Berkowitz from Fairholme, 
whom we represent. 

518
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,760
I had dinner with him in the 
city. 

519
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,720
He texted me an hour later to 
make sure I got home OK. 

520
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,440
I mean, just nice people, yeah. 
Do you still represent Bruce? 

521
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,440
Yes. 
How has that been? 

522
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,400
Interesting. 
I would think I I don't know how

523
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,200
to ask the question and I'm just
going to encourage an honest 

524
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,200
conversation. 
We can cut whatever we may cut 

525
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,760
this, but it's he. 
He was so concentrated and so 

526
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,600
public on Sears that I would 
think it would be a test. 

527
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,840
Well, there's one common trait 
that they have. 

528
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,320
They kind of own up to their 
errors or missteps and they 

529
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,000
explain them and they say we'll 
try not to do that again. 

530
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,640
And he's concentrated sometimes 
it's by design. 

531
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,920
Well, he is registered as a non 
diversified investment company 

532
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,080
but with Joe which is about 75% 
of the portfolio and that's a 

533
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,680
stock he bought initially in 
2010. 

534
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,720
I remember when he did that. 
Yeah, and he never really added 

535
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,200
to the position. 
He's paired the position, but 

536
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,280
it's like one of the side 
effects of having a super 

537
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,360
successful holding in your 
portfolio. 

538
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,000
Yeah, I have heard from people 
that have been there recently, 

539
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,280
and I don't know. 
I've said it before on the 

540
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,680
podcast. 
I'll say it right now. 

541
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,000
I don't know why I don't just 
get in the car and go see it. 

542
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,000
I hear it's beautiful. 
Like what? 

543
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Like the development that 
they're doing. 

544
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,800
I I hear that they're. 
Doing a great job with it. 

545
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,440
It's fabulous. 
Yeah, we haven't visited, but 

546
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,080
anyone who's gone down there to 
visit it, they come back like 

547
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,880
blown away, blown. 
Away. 

548
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,040
Yeah, that's what I've heard 
too. 

549
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,320
I had two people text me and 
they've been like, you got to 

550
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,880
get up here and see what's going
on. 

551
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,080
I know. 
Which is a nice story after sort

552
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,080
of the Sears debacle, right? 
Like it's nice to have a rose 

553
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,920
grow from yeah, it. 
Was over the years but. 

554
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,080
Yes. 
No, of course. 

555
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,000
He has massive career. 
That's why I just somebody that 

556
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,920
I have followed because I mean 
what coming in 2010 he must have

557
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,120
been. 
I mean forget about top decile, 

558
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,960
he must have been like top 5% 
fund manager. 

559
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,280
Yeah. 
Yeah, so it's been interesting. 

560
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:02,760
Also, I have learned a lot from 
following him, just sort of like

561
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,320
the thin line between. 
I try to remind myself if that 

562
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,120
can happen to him, it can really
happen to me, right? 

563
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,240
So that's interesting. 
I don't want to ask you who do 

564
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,480
you represent or whatever, but 
I'm just kind of curious like 

565
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,040
you've gotten to interact with 
all these Titans, right? 

566
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,760
Like the people, Super. 
Fun for me. 

567
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,840
I mean, I represented Marty 
Whitman. 

568
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,120
Wow. 
Jean Marie of yours from First 

569
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,480
Eagle and we still represent 
First Eagle. 

570
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,960
That's our longest standing 
client. 

571
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,400
We've had First Eagle since 1987
when the world was different. 

572
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,960
But yeah, yeah, so it's been 
great. 

573
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,360
It's been absolutely great 
because. 

574
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,640
Do you find that those people 
talk to each other or do they 

575
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,440
operate a little bit more on a 
solitary island? 

576
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,840
Life. 
My take, and I don't know this 

577
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,240
for sure, is that they're more 
solitary. 

578
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,920
I think they know of each other.
They may look at each other's 

579
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,600
quarterly reports. 
But I was telling somebody 

580
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,480
recently that notwithstanding 
that they're all value managers,

581
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,480
you don't really see a lot of 
overlap on the portfolios in 

582
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,080
many instances. 
So they look for these unusual 

583
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,920
opportunities, these 
undiscovered value stocks, and 

584
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,560
they pick stock by stock, you 
know? 

585
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,240
Quote UN quote value investing, 
has that changed over time or 

586
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,160
are there sort of some 
commonalities that that have 

587
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,360
gone through that have worked 
throughout the years? 

588
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,680
I mean, it's something I hear a 
lot of people say like oh, the 

589
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,000
market's changing. 
I I have good perspective on 

590
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,080
whether or not that's true. 
I don't think the market has 

591
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,120
changed. 
The market is still made-up of 

592
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,440
people, so maybe the people have
changed so. 

593
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,320
Unlikely, according to. 
Evolution, right? 

594
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,920
We tend to have a focus more on 
tech or whatever, but that could

595
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,160
change too, right? 
You know, 'cause they tend to be

596
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,360
more fickle. 
But I think that Graham and Dog 

597
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,040
basic classic value investing is
still the same. 

598
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,760
They're still looking to get a 
business at half its intrinsic 

599
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,199
value with a little bit of 
observation about risks. 

600
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,880
So there's no possibility of 
permanent encampment of capital 

601
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,080
that they can foresee. 
So I think that's basic value 

602
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,000
investing. 
Trying to get something for 

603
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,440
$0.50 on the dollar has remained
the same. 

604
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:36,560
So let's say I I have a track 
record and I say Heda, I I know 

605
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,239
that I'm good at this, but I 
need the help on marketing. 

606
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,159
How has your distribution 
strategy changed over time? 

607
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:46,159
I'm curious like how the 
marketing of funds has changed. 

608
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,760
Well, it's changed more from the
perspective of the outlets that 

609
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,679
we're able to go to. 
I mean, back in the day, we had 

610
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:55,120
print media, period. 
The end. 

611
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,160
Oh, yeah. 
We had Associated Press, United 

612
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,800
Press, International Fund, 
Reuters, right. 

613
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:01,560
Yeah, that was it. 
That was it. 

614
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,440
So there was no money.com, There
was no fortune.com. 

615
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:11,280
There was actually the financial
advisor trades really weren't in

616
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,760
existence. 
They were not a target at all. 

617
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,320
So you didn't have financial 
advisor, financial planning, 

618
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,840
investment news, that kind of 
thing. 

619
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,600
So today there are so many more 
outlets that we can go to to 

620
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,920
tell a client's story that reach
their target audiences. 

621
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:31,920
So it isn't onlythe.com the 
online publications, but we do 

622
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,000
podcasts which you have to be 
very effective. 

623
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,240
Back in the day, you wouldn't be
on my show. 

624
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,040
Exactly. 
Consuela Mack has been doing her

625
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,680
thing for a while. 
I I got to talk to her. 

626
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,000
If you know her, I'd love to 
interview her someday. 

627
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,200
She's awesome. 
We also can have clients now who

628
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:53,880
participate in webinars, who are
on panel discussions, who speak 

629
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,720
at conferences, who might do 
byline articles. 

630
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,560
And also there are roundup 
pieces that's trend stories that

631
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,000
where it's logical for a client 
or comments. 

632
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,080
Then there's radio and TV as 
well. 

633
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,680
So you have Bloomberg, you have 
CNBC. 

634
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,200
So those are all outlets. 
So there's many more outlets to 

635
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,120
tell the client's story. 
Well, I I don't mean to be so 

636
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,680
naive about this, but what is a 
by lined article? 

637
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,240
That's where a client will write
a piece. 

638
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:28,400
It's more of an educational 
piece. 

639
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:35,360
So maybe are small caps really 
coming back in 2024 and it might

640
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,640
be written by a small cap client
and it's educational about small

641
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,200
cap stocks, perhaps a little 
history perhaps looking ahead 

642
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,640
and then at the end they get 
their credit. 

643
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,280
This article was written by SO 
and SO, who's portfolio manager 

644
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,120
of the Builders to small cap 
funds. 

645
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,640
Yeah, that makes sense. 
OK, you see that barons a lot 

646
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,080
and. 
It has life after that. 

647
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,880
Any article can be posted on a 
website, can be sent to clients 

648
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,400
and shareholders. 
We could do social media if the 

649
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,760
client is comfortable with that.
If they have a sales force, they

650
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,400
want to get the word out to the 
sales force. 

651
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,560
It also makes the people working
at the firm feel good, because 

652
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,520
here's a piece extolling the 
virtues of their investment 

653
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,360
products. 
Yeah, I found I've been 

654
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:30,400
surprised at the even if I look 
at who's listening today, the 

655
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,440
back catalogue, it's not nearly 
as listened to as the most 

656
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,360
recent podcast, but people still
churn through the back catalogue

657
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,480
quite a bit. 
So these these content pieces do

658
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,040
live for a very long time. 
Yes, yes. 

659
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,960
And if you're if they're 
Evergreen in terms of just 

660
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,320
stating the case for a 
particular asset class or 

661
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,320
strategy, they can just go on 
forever. 

662
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,920
Yeah. 
How do you think about how how 

663
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,400
should I think about creating 
Evergreen content? 

664
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,760
Do you think maybe I'm going to 
be selfish here, get some free 

665
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:08,760
advice like because some of the 
incentive is come on and give me

666
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:15,800
a stock, your best idea, right. 
And I don't think that content 

667
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,120
seasons as well as getting into 
how people think, who people 

668
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,720
are, stuff like that I think is 
much better in the back 

669
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:26,440
catalogue, right? 
Well, you don't want to do 

670
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,280
anything that's time sensitive. 
We even tell our clients when 

671
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,360
they do a podcast, not to say 
things like, well yesterday the 

672
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,960
market closed at an all time 
high because right away it 

673
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,040
becomes outdated a week later. 
And of course, if they're proven

674
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,600
wrong in terms of a forecast or 
numbers not good, yeah, of 

675
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,360
course that goes explodes. 
Yeah. 

676
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,360
So you want to have more basic 
topics. 

677
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,560
I think it's always the tried 
and true, even some of the stuff

678
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:58,000
you are asking, Bill, how has 
value investing changed over the

679
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,480
years? 
But how does it look today? 

680
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,240
Or the case for small snacks, 
small cap stocks? 

681
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,040
Or should you diversify 
internationally? 

682
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,720
What are the risks? 
What are the positives? 

683
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,840
So if you have more general 
topics but educational and 

684
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,040
relevant, I think those can 
stand the test of time. 

685
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,000
Yeah. 
The nice thing about that 

686
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:24,480
approach too is let's say I am a
growth investor, but I'm 

687
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,400
interested in whether or not 
value investing has changed. 

688
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,600
I can read that article and come
away learning something. 

689
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,800
To your point, if you can 
educate people in the middle of 

690
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,920
the interview, I think it's you 
widen the net of potential 

691
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,480
readers or listeners. 
If you listen or read about 

692
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,840
small people, you can always 
learn something and you kind of 

693
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,240
tuck it in the back of your 
heads. 

694
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,000
Yeah, that's why we love our 
business. 

695
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,360
We are dealing with smart 
investment people, smart 

696
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,720
journalists. 
We think we're smart, you know, 

697
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,120
So it's a win. 
I do know. 

698
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,560
That's why that's what I my 
primary enjoyment of the podcast

699
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,520
is. 
It opens up smart people to talk

700
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,600
to. 
Absolutely, absolutely. 

701
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,280
What would you say are some of 
the common mistakes that people 

702
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,440
make in an interview? 
I know you said dating an 

703
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,880
interview saying yesterday the 
market closed an all time high 

704
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,600
or something like that, but what
are some pitfalls to avoid? 

705
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,320
We try not to have them make 
mistakes 'cause we really 

706
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,480
prepare our clients, whether 
it's an interview or a 

707
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,760
presentation. 
Or yeah, So what does that look 

708
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,080
like? 
What does pre call prep look 

709
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:36,480
like for? 
You. 

710
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,200
OK, so. 
So first of all, there's some 

711
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,320
rules of the roads. 
Everything you say is on the 

712
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,040
record. 
If you don't want to see it in 

713
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,840
the story, do not say it. 
And especially don't say it. 

714
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,480
When you throw out an enticing 
statement and then say, oh, by 

715
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,240
the way, that's off the record 
because we said that's a great 

716
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:01,160
way to annoy the journalist. 
The other misconception that 

717
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,920
clients, it's not a 
misconception. 

718
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,240
They'll say, oh, I'm always 
quoted out of context and we'll 

719
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:11,720
say to them, correct. 
That is absolutely true because 

720
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:17,160
the interviews rarely are a 
transcript word for word of 

721
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,120
everything you said. 
So you definitely will be quoted

722
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,560
out of context. 
And therefore, it's important 

723
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,680
that you pay attention to what 
you're saying and how you're 

724
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,680
saying it, so that almost each 
statement can stand on its own. 

725
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,320
We also talked to them about 
taking body cues from the 

726
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,200
reporter, whether it's a Zoom 
interview or in person. 

727
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,160
If you're talking and the 
reporter is taking notes and 

728
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,360
then all of a sudden he or she 
puts their pen down, it might be

729
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,760
interesting to you, but it isn't
interesting to them anymore. 

730
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,240
Yeah, they've stopped writing. 
They're not that interested. 

731
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,480
That's a good that's a good 
clue. 

732
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,680
Exactly. 
If they're clicking away on the 

733
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,880
computer and there's no more 
clicking to stop. 

734
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,120
Because we do find journalists 
are very polite. 

735
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,200
They don't want to interrupt. 
Radio and TV is a different 

736
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,600
animal. 
We train clients separately for 

737
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,720
them and we rehearse them. 
We rehearse because we explain 

738
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:15,320
to them they're reaching 
thousands and thousands of 

739
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,480
people and so and they're and 
it's real time. 

740
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,640
They've got 4 to 5 minutes to 
state their case. 

741
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,480
They have to come up with 
message points which we help 

742
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,960
them create. 
Simple statements that talk 

743
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,480
about their differentiation from
every other asset manager, what 

744
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,760
their strategy is. 
They got to be able to nail 

745
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,680
these things in an interview. 
So that's part of the prep as 

746
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,560
well. 
And we try to give them 

747
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,560
background on the journalists. 
And sometimes the client will 

748
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,040
start off by saying, Oh, my son 
is at Ohio State and I see you. 

749
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:49,120
And so you have. 
A. 

750
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,480
Build some rapport? 
Not in a creepy way, yeah, for 

751
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:54,240
sure. 
Yeah. 

752
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:58,320
So as I said, if it's a 
presentation or ATV, we tell 

753
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,840
them how to dress. 
We make recommendations in terms

754
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,440
of wearing kind of blander 
clothes, so to speak. 

755
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,000
Because what you want to do is 
have the audience pay attention 

756
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,200
to you and what you're saying. 
Not because you have a great pin

757
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,640
on your lapel or a jazzy tie, 
but if it's a zoom or that 

758
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,960
you're doing it from, we worry 
about the background. 

759
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:19,960
Is that where you're doing it 
from? 

760
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,800
We don't want them sitting in a 
swivel chair because people 

761
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,760
swivel in swivel chairs, that 
kind of thing. 

762
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,360
So we really go from soup to 
nuts. 

763
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,400
And the clients are thrilled 
because they went from being 

764
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,480
nervous to oh, OK, I mean, the 
rules of the roads are simple. 

765
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,360
Don't do a dated dump, Don't do 
jargon. 

766
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,120
Speak a little slower. 
Speak a little louder, even if 

767
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,520
you might, because you want the 
audience or the interviewer to 

768
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,000
to understand what you're 
saying. 

769
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,200
And pause. 
There's three things you need to

770
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,840
know about value investing and 
pause. 

771
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,200
So the interviewer might say, 
oh, really, what are those? 

772
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,240
And then so it's a more 
interesting dialogue. 

773
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,760
My head has been hung up a 
little bit. 

774
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,480
You said that you're going to be
misquoted. 

775
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,560
I was misquoted once in a news 
story that mattered a lot to me 

776
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,880
and I was really pissed about 
it. 

777
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,560
And I reached out to the 
reporter and I requested a 

778
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,200
correction and that went 
absolutely nowhere. 

779
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,920
And it was frustrating because 
the quote was correct. 

780
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:31,120
But what was said at the time in
the conversation and how it was 

781
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,480
represented in the story, yeah. 
I hear you. 

782
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:38,480
That occasionally happens, Bill.
So where the quote, I'll say, 

783
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,760
did you say it? 
They'll say yeah, but we were 

784
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,480
talking about this or they 
didn't do the next sentence, 

785
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,040
which clarified what I said. 
Yeah, yeah. 

786
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,040
Or. 
It's like. 

787
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,040
It's like you have a 
conversation and 10 minutes 

788
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,960
later you say something. 
And yes, I said it. 

789
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,560
I just didn't say it when we 
were talking about this 

790
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,800
particular issue. 
Right. 

791
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,640
So whatever that. 
Happens. 

792
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
It's over now. 

793
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:05,680
So what advice would you give to
an asset manager that's looking 

794
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,200
to establish their brand? 
Obviously they should hire 

795
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,160
Mountain Adler. 
I mean that would be step one. 

796
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,320
Yeah, that's step one. 
And Step 2 is check out step 

797
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,440
one. 
Hey, that's step one. 

798
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,400
And Step 2 is. 
Don't forget about step one. 

799
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:20,120
You're. 
Done. 

800
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,120
I like it. 
Yeah, that works. 

801
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,360
Now, on a general basis, what 
you need to do is to discover 

802
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,280
what your resources are, because
there's a lot of ways to market.

803
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,040
You can do advertising, you can 
do social media, you could do 

804
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,160
digital, you could do public 
relations. 

805
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,520
So, So you really want to figure
out what resources and people 

806
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,960
and time you can devote to each 
effort and see. 

807
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,880
We try to optimize our client, 
the spokespeople's time. 

808
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,040
So yes, we brief you about an 
interview, but we will also give

809
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,280
you all the details about the 
interview and it's 45 minutes. 

810
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,160
So keep that in mind. 
We'll sit in where we can. 

811
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,920
We typically don't interrupt. 
So you get a lot of bang for 

812
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,840
your buck with public relations.
There are. 

813
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,440
It's a monthly retainer. 
You're being promoted, you're 

814
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,120
being marketed by us month in 
and month out in one fashion or 

815
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,920
another, Stories, podcast, 
webinars, content strategy, 

816
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,200
etcetera, etcetera. 
We've become your marketing 

817
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,040
department. 
So. 

818
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,920
So that's important and we're 
very respectful of 

819
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,200
spokespeople's time. 
We work through liaisons. 

820
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,480
We know the rules of the road, 
We know all about compliance, 

821
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,720
which there is a lot to know in 
our business and we're very 

822
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,720
sensitive to that. 
But as I said at the outside 

823
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:49,440
also comfort level, very 
important with a client. 

824
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,360
They really need to feel 
comfortable with each PR 

825
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,720
opportunity and there are some 
clients that they will talk and 

826
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,960
be comfortable doing anything. 
There's others that only want to

827
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,920
do print media. 
We'll critique by the way, we 

828
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,120
may, we'll brief you, but then 
afterwards we'll say, OK, this 

829
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,680
is what you did really well and 
here are your areas of 

830
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,800
improvement and no one has ever 
said to us, I don't want to hear

831
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,560
that because they really want to
do their best. 

832
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,200
Yeah, they really. 
Well, I have a feeling I I would

833
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,400
not tell you that. 
If you told me I had stuff to 

834
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:28,600
improve, I would say, you know 
what? 

835
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,880
I take Heta seriously. 
She. 

836
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,680
She's. 
Yeah, yeah, I'd say she knows. 

837
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,440
Her stuff. 
I'm a Listen. 

838
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,000
Yeah, we're all trying to do a 
great job. 

839
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,920
Yeah, well, everybody drives 
towards a common goal. 

840
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,000
That's the only way that you 
actually achieve it, right? 

841
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,680
If I were to hire you, how would
you suggest I think about the 

842
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:54,000
success of APR campaign or 
hiring you generally? 

843
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,640
Like how do you measure success 
in what you do? 

844
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,760
OK, well, let's go more a little
to the beginning of the 

845
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,120
relationship. 
You contact us, you're thinking 

846
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,200
about public relations. 
So we start to get to know your 

847
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,880
business and we will come back 
to you based on a lengthy 

848
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,920
conversation with a little PR 
outline. 

849
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,640
Here's what we think your goals 
are. 

850
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,920
Here are the target audiences 
and here's how we think we will 

851
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,160
be able to get you some press 
coverage. 

852
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,280
OK. 
And we also do news releases, by

853
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,800
the way, so those are 
automatically picked up by 

854
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,080
certain media people or it's a 
way to get your foot in the door

855
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,640
with certain press people. 
Look at this news release, Bill 

856
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,840
Brewster's subscriber base has 
tripled in the last two years, 

857
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,320
that kind of thing. 
And then we, if you say to us 

858
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,520
and we give you a budget and if 
you say to us, OK, let's start 

859
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,720
out, let's try it, then we have 
a strategy session where we go 

860
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:54,680
over every detail of the 
program. 

861
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,760
So you're comfortable, we go 
over the objectives, do we get 

862
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,760
them right? 
Because these are the things 

863
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,200
we're going to strive to 
achieve. 

864
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,800
And it could be things like you 
want to attract family offices 

865
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,840
or you want to have more 
institutional clients or you 

866
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,880
want to communicate call more 
effectively with your existing 

867
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,520
clientele or shareholders, that 
kind of thing. 

868
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,520
So we go over everything, 
liaisons, can we just call you 

869
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,080
on the phone, do you prefer 
e-mail, etcetera, etcetera. 

870
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,680
And then we begin. 
And what we like to do is to 

871
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:36,320
have PR calls with our clients 
like every other week, so we can

872
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,560
tell them how something 
resulted. 

873
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,200
We they can say, oh, Gee, that 
story was great. 

874
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,720
We got 3 perceptive clients from
that or we getting reprints or 

875
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:48,200
blah, blah, blah. 
And then we talked to them about

876
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,360
what are you seeing out there, 
what's going on? 

877
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,760
Like now we're starting to ask 
clients if they have opinions 

878
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,160
about the upcoming election 
because we know the press is 

879
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,640
going to be writing about that. 
And some of them will say, no, 

880
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,240
we don't want to get involved 
with politics and fine, that's 

881
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:04,880
OK. 
No problem. 

882
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,480
Yeah, maybe there's a smart way 
to toe the line. 

883
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,040
Express an opinion without 
expressing an opinion. 

884
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,440
Political right? 
That's correct. 

885
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:19,320
Yes, in some hot water, but to 
your point, it's very relevant 

886
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,280
and to the extent you can say, 
look, if one party wins, I think

887
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,840
this is the most likely outcome,
and if the other party wins, 

888
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,400
this is the most likely outcome.
And back it up with data rather 

889
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,120
than opinion that could make 
sense. 

890
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,720
Right, exactly. 
Exactly so. 

891
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,320
That's a way to be safe in shark
infested waters. 

892
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,160
Exactly. 
And we tell them our MO. 

893
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,520
We tell them if we book an 
interview, we will brief them on

894
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,280
the journalist, we will have a 
prep call. 

895
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,600
So they're super comfortable. 
We ask if there's any 

896
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,680
sensitivities. 
Yeah, some clients will say, 

897
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,480
well, we could talk about 
stocks, but only the ones that 

898
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,760
are in our top ten holdings. 
So if a reporter asks about the 

899
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,560
23rd holding, we have to tell 
the reporter, no, they can't 

900
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,720
talk about that. 
So we go over everything and 

901
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:06,320
then we begin. 
And it's a learning process and 

902
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,240
we do these update calls, but 
we're in touch in the interim. 

903
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,960
I don't think we have any client
that we're not in touch with at 

904
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,440
least a few times a week. 
Do clients share with you 

905
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,680
whether or not they think that 
talking about stocks is a net 

906
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,160
positive in their lives or a net
negative? 

907
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,160
It's something I wonder about 
running a podcast that happens 

908
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,360
to discuss stocks fairly often. 
They never really shared that 

909
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,720
kind of information, Bill. 
But I know that if you're a 

910
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:39,000
stock fund and you want a 
feature or a spot on Bloomberg 

911
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,040
or CNBC, yeah, they'll talk 
about your strategy, but they 

912
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,320
want some examples of the 
strategy. 

913
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,480
Nobody has ever come back to us 
and said I'm OK going on CNBC. 

914
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,080
Well, if they say to me I'm OK 
going on CNBC, but I won't talk 

915
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,560
about the stocks, I'll say, 
guess what? 

916
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,480
You're not going on. 
CNBC Yeah, that's right. 

917
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,760
Yeah, that's nice dream. 
Yeah, exactly. 

918
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,720
Exactly. 
Interesting. 

919
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,960
So where do you think your 
business is headed over the 

920
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,320
next, I don't know, 10 or 20 
years? 

921
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,320
Do you think will PR be largely 
the same in the future as it is 

922
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,520
in the past but the mediums will
change? 

923
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:17,280
Or is there some tectonic shift 
on the horizon? 

924
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,480
There might. 
Be some kind of a shift because 

925
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,600
we never would have foreseen the
popularity of podcasts as an 

926
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,520
outlet. 
Also the business itself with 

927
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,920
the entry of ETFs, that was a 
game changer in the asset 

928
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,840
management business or even when
you're seeing things like AMI or

929
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,920
Bitcoin. 
We have to see how that plays 

930
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,680
out and if that's something 
that's going to affect the 

931
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,760
clients, the PR business, all of
the above. 

932
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,120
Yeah, yeah. 
The podcast medium, I think What

933
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:57,000
makes it work is there's 
something about being what left 

934
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:02,280
me wanting when I would watch 
CNBC is a 5 minute snippet and 

935
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,800
then somebody's gone. 
It's not really enough time to 

936
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,600
dive into how they think. 
And I think that the unique 

937
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,160
thing about hearing somebody 
speak for an hour is you really 

938
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,000
get into how they process things
and. 

939
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,680
Correct. 
Correct And this. 

940
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,840
Is fun talking about your 
childhood, we could not have had

941
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,640
more different childhoods, but 
we did have one thing in common.

942
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,120
We had a grandma that loved us. 
See. 

943
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,840
That's a big that's a big thing,
yeah. 

944
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,520
I did not have the happiest 
household, but my grandma was in

945
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,200
my place of safety and emotional
support and all that. 

946
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,120
So game. 
Changer. 

947
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,640
Yeah, that's what led me down to
Florida. 

948
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:43,120
I kind of helped her. 
I mean, I did oversee her all 

949
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,560
her death and set up the 
infrastructure around her and 

950
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:47,520
all that. 
Stuff, but that's great. 

951
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,240
Yeah, well, it was nice to be 
able to do. 

952
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:52,680
Now I got to figure out the next
step. 

953
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:56,640
We're sort of, I've got a couple
more business related things to 

954
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,080
wrap up here and then life 
happens, but we'll see what that

955
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,560
means. 
I don't know what that means. 

956
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,560
OK, well, you just welcome it 
and embrace it as best you can. 

957
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:07,080
That's right. 
That's right. 

958
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,320
That's all you can do. 
It makes no sense not to do 

959
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,560
anything else, right? 
Or to do anything else rather. 

960
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,800
Correct, correct. 
Because if you do that, you 

961
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,120
won't be as stressed. 
And that's the key, I think with

962
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,000
everything, whether it's 
business or personal, you need 

963
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,200
to figure out ways to manage the
stress in your life. 

964
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,520
I would imagine you've had a 
fair amount between running a 

965
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,720
business, being a mother that 
was working the two week 

966
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,600
maternity leave. 
That's serious. 

967
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,800
That wasn't maternity leave, was
my vacation. 

968
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,240
That's sorry. 
Vacation. 

969
00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:40,200
Vacation. 
I didn't mean to mischaracterize

970
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:41,160
it. 
Yeah, you didn't get any 

971
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,080
vacation after that. 
Exactly. 

972
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,960
Well, it would seem, yeah, of 
course it was stressful, but I 

973
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,600
was able to deal with it if it 
was not unexpected. 

974
00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:51,520
I mean, I would have been 
foolish to think I knew what. 

975
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,000
As my daughter said to me, 
babies should come with 

976
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,160
instruction manuals. 
Yeah, they don't write that 

977
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:58,880
book. 
I was getting up with night 

978
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,360
feedings and but I knew that's 
what I had. 

979
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,760
They always have to adjust your 
expectations to have a newborn 

980
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,680
and say, I didn't know I have to
get up in the middle of the 

981
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:07,440
night. 
Come on. 

982
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,120
Yeah, you know that ahead. 
So I'm. 

983
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,440
So you deal with it. 
And yeah, I was tired. 

984
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,360
And so my parents fortunately 
used to have my daughter sleep 

985
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,000
over one night every weekend. 
So that gave me enough of a 

986
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,880
refresher. 
Oh, that's nice. 

987
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,120
Yeah, it was lovely. 
And I did that with my 

988
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,080
grandchildren, by the way, so 
the apple doesn't fall far from 

989
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,800
the tree. 
Yes, it's nice to pay it 

990
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,480
forward. 
Yes, exactly. 

991
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,360
And then over the years, I 
discovered yoga. 

992
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,440
Oh yeah, Yeah. 
Downward dog and whatnot. 

993
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,880
Oh yeah, definitely. 
Definitely. 

994
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,520
So how has that helped you? 
Oh, it's just wonderful. 

995
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,800
Because it's not only a physical
kind of thing where you stretch 

996
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,440
and learn balance and things 
breathing, but you look better, 

997
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,720
you feel better, You can handle 
situations because you're I'm 

998
00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:59,240
able to meditate before a tough 
meeting or if something 

999
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:01,120
stressful is going on during the
day. 

1000
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,200
It's been wonderful for me. 
I've been doing it for 40 years,

1001
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,000
though I couldn't find it. 
But. 

1002
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,080
By the class 40 years ago I 
couldn't find a class. 

1003
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,680
Yeah, well, now you can't go 
anywhere without hearing about 

1004
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,000
it, Do you? 
Do Pilates ever. 

1005
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,040
What? 
Do you? 

1006
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:17,360
Pilates. 
No. 

1007
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,040
I'm not into my core. 
I like it. 

1008
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,320
I we have that in common as 
well. 

1009
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:27,920
I don't know if it's the best 
thing to have in common. 

1010
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:31,320
They say it's pretty important, 
but I hate doing it. 

1011
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,320
Yeah, well, you. 
Do the core stuff. 

1012
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,160
You call it your chi in yoga, XI
Chi where that's where you try 

1013
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,040
to breathe from the core for 
your children and stuff like 

1014
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,840
that. 
But I don't want to hurt my 

1015
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,000
core. 
I find breathing to a specific 

1016
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,400
point is interesting. 
That was one of my takeaways 

1017
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,800
from the yoga that I have done 
where they say like breathe into

1018
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,320
the part of the stretch and 
that's kind of cool to feel your

1019
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,640
body do that. 
I know yoga actually means the 

1020
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,920
union of mind and body, and so 
it's interesting that if you 

1021
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,800
sniffle and you say, oh Oh my 
God, you're sick, guess what? 

1022
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,280
You get sick? 
Yeah. 

1023
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,560
If you sniffle and you win. 
Oh, I'm going to get a tissue 

1024
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,080
because I feel pretty good. 
Oh, and I'm not going to get 

1025
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,640
sick. 
You typically don't. 

1026
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,440
Yeah, that is right. 
Well, I'm going to think that my

1027
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,760
shoulder is getting better 
tomorrow and then hopefully it 

1028
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,400
does. 
Oh, I'm with you on that. 

1029
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,720
I have shoulder issues. 
Too they stink, shoulders and 

1030
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,240
knees and backs. 
Oh well. 

1031
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,000
Whatever. 
Well, I have really enjoyed this

1032
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,920
and I hope you have as well and 
it's been nice to chat with you 

1033
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,520
the few times that we have and I
hope that we continue to. 

1034
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:38,480
How I look forward to that, 
Bill. 

1035
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,200
Thank you so much. 
Yeah. 

1036
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:41,440
Thank you very much for coming 
on. 

1037
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:42,320
I appreciate it. 
You're. 

1038
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:43,520
Quite welcome. 
Thank. 

1039
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,200
You all right. 
Have a great day. 

1040
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:51,240
You. 
Too.