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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
the Business Brew. 

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I am your host, Bill Brewster. 
This episode features the one 

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and only Consuelo Mac. 
I have gone to Consuelo's 

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Wealchtrack program for a number
of years for weekly investment 

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content. 
I love what she does. 

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Her mission to educate investors
and give them access to 

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investors is something that 
resonates with me and that I 

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hope to do as good of a job over
time as she has done. 

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And I asked her to come on the 
program. 

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She said yes. 
And I'm thrilled to bring this 

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interview to you. 
One interesting tidbit that I 

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learned in preparing for this 
program was Consuelo Show does 

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not have funding, so she puts it
together. 

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So we get into that a little bit
about how she gets her 

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sponsorships and how she goes 
about her business. 

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I think this a really cool 
conversation about her career 

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and I am happy and honored to be
able to bring you a conversation

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with the one and only Consuela 
Mac. 

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I hope you enjoy. 
As always, nothing in the show 

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is financial advice. 
Please consult an investment 

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advisor before making investment
decisions. 

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Everything in the show is for 
entertainment purposes and 

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educational purposes and do your
own due diligence. 

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to
the Business Brew. 

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I am very excited to be talking 
to the one and only Consuelo 

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Mac. 
I, I, I am honored to be on this

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side of the mic and interviewing
you. 

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So thank you for saying yes. 
No, I'm delighted to be here. 

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You you did a terrific interview
with a good friend of mine. 

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Had a Nadler recently, a 
mountain Nadler, and she's APR 

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person that I've been dealing 
with for years and has become a 

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good friend. 
And anyone that had a recommends

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that I talk to I do. 
But anyway, so it was really 

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fun. 
You had a great discussion with 

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Heda. 
I learned a lot. 

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Heda's one-of-a-kind, yeah. 
And I just, yeah, go ahead, 

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sorry. 
No, she said today, I hope I'm 

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not leaking confidential info, 
but she said that she had like 

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an affinity for me and I said 
that I had one for her as well. 

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And she said well hopefully 
you're not afraid of me. 

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And I said a little, but it's 
out of respect. 

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Totally out of respect, right? 
Do do not fear head out. 

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But she has all of our best 
interests at heart. 

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She's she's really 
one-of-a-kind. 

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And I also, you know, listen to 
your, that podcast that you did 

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with Matthew Sweeney, which I 
thought was fascinating. 

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Oh, thank you. 
Right. 

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I mean, just about the, the 
issues that one has as value 

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investors. 
Like, I honestly felt like I was

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listening in on a, on a guy's 
luncheon, you know, but just a 

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conversation that, that you 
would have with a close friend 

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about all the things that you're
thinking about, the things you 

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don't understand and investing 
in the markets and, and you 

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know, what works for you, what 
doesn't? 

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It was really a neat 
conversation. 

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I I really appreciated it. 
Well, this will be a a 

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conversation, hopefully a 
different kind of luncheon. 

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That's that's the goal of the 
podcast. 

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So I'm glad that that's how you 
felt. 

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If if you felt that way, I'm 
doing my job. 

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Yeah, you are. 
It's been a joy. 

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Has it? 
Yeah, yeah, I like it. 

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I mean, you know more than I do 
about the back end of it, but 

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you know, it's, it's been a nice
learning experience. 

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I came here having some ideas. 
I mean, I, I read, you know, 

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Buffett Munger and thought I 
knew everything about the world.

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And the more I learned, the more
I realized I didn't know 

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anything. 
And, and now I'm trying to learn

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more, you know? 
Join the club. 

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The more I know, the more I 
realized that I don't know. 

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And it's a constant, you know, 
learning curve. 

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And that's what makes this 
business so exciting because you

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never stop learning. 
Yeah, that's right. 

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Well, how did you get into the 
business for those that don't 

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know? 
Right. 

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So I, I graduated, I, I had a 
liberal arts degree from a 

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college called Sarah Lawrence 
College, which is still very 

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much in existence. 
It was just turning Coed at the 

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time. 
So I had, you know, nary a math 

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course or economics course, 
nothing in finance at all. 

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And when I graduated from Sarah 
Lawrence with a, a very liberal 

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liberal arts education, I really
wanted to make it in, in the 

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man's world. 
I realized that there was a huge

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void in my education, which was 
about business. 

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And my wonderful parents had 
supported me through college. 

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And I decided it was time for me
to be financially independent. 

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And where could I go where I 
could be trained and paid at the

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same time. 
And the two options that came to

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my mind through talking with 
various friends with was in 

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banking head training programs 
and they paid you as, as did the

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brokerage industry. 
And so one of my first 

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interviews was at Merrill Lynch 
and they needed to hire women. 

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At the time, it was in the 
1970s, some significant 

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legislation had just been passed
by Congress and they were under 

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pressure to hire women. 
And also in the 1970s, the I was

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at 600, the Wall Street had been
decimated. 

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And they also needed bodies. 
So Merrill Lynch was kind enough

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to offer me a job as a, you 
know, as a, as a broker. 

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I mean, they called us account 
executives. 

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That's kind of a joke at the 
time for me, certainly. 

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But that's how it got started. 
What a good time to enter. 

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In retrospect, Yeah, Little 
different than now. 

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Wouldn't have known it at the 
time, Yeah, Would not have known

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that it was a good time to enter
at the time. 

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I mean, there were lots of empty
desks in the office. 

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I was working in the garment 
district. 

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The people that the the brokers 
who were left there were real 

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seasoned veterans. 
They had actually survived what 

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was going on with the market at 
the time and they could not have

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been nicer or kinder to me. 
I wonder if in a way that was a 

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real blessing because you had 
the people teaching you that had

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the most skill, right? 
Those that were able to to 

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survive, Absolutely. 
What I mean, you said they that 

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they couldn't have been nicer to
you, but what was that like? 

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I mean, how many women were in 
your class? 

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Well, in my, in my actual 
training class, I think that 

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there were like three of us and 
I was the only one that went to 

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this office in the garment 
district. 

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And it was an amazing experience
because we were given I think 40

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called call cards a day to go 
through. 

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So I was calling. 
They were all men who were, you 

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know, obviously had sent in for 
information. 

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And so I was, you know, calling 
all these guys who were, again, 

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you know, that they were 
seasoned investors themselves. 

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And it was a daunting and 
humbling and I realized how 

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little I knew. 
And so therefore, when people 

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ask me questions, I, the 
training program was great, but 

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I, there was a lot that I needed
to learn. 

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And that was part of the 
experience as well at the, 

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these, the guys at, at 1515 
Broadway were terrific to me and

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really tried to help me as much 
as I could. 

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But quite honestly, Bill, I 
realized like right from the get

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code, I am not equipped, you 
know, to do this. 

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And number one in my background.
And so I, I moved quickly on to,

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to work for some other really 
terrific firms. 

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I ended up working at Mitchell 
Hutchins, which was the number 

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one research firm in the street 
because I realized I really 

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needed to know a lot more. 
I just couldn't make cold calls.

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And that was a wonderful 
experience as well. 

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And that's how I, I got into 
journalism by recognizing that 

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if I, you know, really wasn't 
happy at the number one research

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firm on Wall Street who were 
also terrific to me that that I 

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needed to to go in a different 
direction. 

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And that's how I got into 
journalism. 

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I took some courses at the New 
School at night, and one of them

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was a broadcast journalism 
course. 

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And I met a woman who to to this
day is one of my closest 

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friends, a fellow classmate at 
the time. 

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And she was working for a, a 
very small station in West 

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Orange, NJ, which was about 20 
minutes outside of New York 

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City. 
And they needed someone to do 

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market commentary at night 
because at that time, in order 

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to get that broadcast license, 
you had to cover news in those 

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days. 
And so I would go out, I'd work 

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during the day at Mitchell 
Hutchins, drive out at night to 

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West Orange, NJ and do market 
commentary for two or three 

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minutes a night. 
And that turned into a full time

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job. 
But I I found my calling. 

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Yeah. 
Circling back to something that 

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you said, you said that you 
didn't have the background or 

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brokerage wasn't for you. 
Do you think that was it? 

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Was it a function of personality
type or do you think that it was

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you, you sort of weren't trained
at the time, you just didn't 

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enjoy doing? 
It, no, that's a good question. 

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I, I wasn't trained at the time 
because the, the, the sales 

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course then I remember we might 
have had 20 products. 

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And now at Merrill, if you go 
through a training program, I'm 

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assuming there were like, you 
know, 300 products. 

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I mean, it was just it was it 
was, it was a sales, you know, 

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course and on also the markets 
were going against us at the 

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time. 
And you know, I just wasn't set 

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up to losing money for clients. 
And so, you know, I literally 

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would go home and cry at night 
and talk to my husband about, 

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you know, I can't believe that I
sold this stock and it was going

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down. 
Whereas every everybody you know

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else in the at in the office, 
that's just kind of the name of 

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the game and our clients 
actually understood it as well, 

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But I just wasn't 
psychologically equipped for 

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losing people money. 
Did you take it personally? 

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Yes, I felt it was a personal 
failure. 

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Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

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I, I couldn't divorce myself 
from the advice that this is 

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what Merrill Lynch is 
recommending and therefore it's 

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OK for you to recommend it and 
you don't own any of it. 

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And I just, that was not I, I 
couldn't deal with that. 

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I mean the expectation is if, if
to your point, if Merrill is 

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saying that it, it is OK you are
only the face that is relaying 

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Merrill's information. 
Right. 

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And selling their products. 
I think you time, yeah. 

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I think you and I have a 
similar. 

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I'm not OK with that. 
If if it goes wrong I would I 

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would own it personally. 
It's part of why I have no 

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interest in ever really running 
money. 

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I I much prefer doing this 
right. 

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Unfortunately, one is more 
lucrative than the other, but. 

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Yes, when I left Merrill Lynch 
even or Mitchell Hutchins, yeah,

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there it was. 
I took a huge, enormous pay cut.

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But, you know, these, these 
psychological rewards were, you 

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know, were more than made-up for
the loss in income at that time.

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So when you were driving out, I,
I mean a young Consuelo, you're 

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working during the day and you 
get your two to three minutes 

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on, on local news at night. 
Obviously you're retired, but 

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you must have been very excited 
about about making that drive, 

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right? 
Yeah, it was a rush. 

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It really was. 
And, and I loved it because the 

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one thing that the thing that I 
really enjoyed when I was at 

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Mitchell Hutchins and again, I, 
you know, I, there's this not a,

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it's not a myth, but there is a 
perception on Wall Street that 

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that women are not welcome. 
That has certainly been the case

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for many women that I know on 
Wall Street. 

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It is, you know, it's been very 
tough for them to break into 

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for, for some reason, in my 
limited experience on Wall 

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Street, people really took care 
of me and, and tried to educate 

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me. 
They, they really cared. 

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I think I just have always met, 
you know, the the top, the best,

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highest integrity people on Wall
Street. 

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And there are a lot of them that
are very professional doing 

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their jobs and they want to see 
younger people succeed. 

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I was very fortunate in that 
respect. 

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You know, someone may say to you
that you attract those kind of 

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people because that's who you 
are. 

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Right. 
Possible. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm a 

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really fun person. 
Probable. 

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I bet. 
I bet people saw something in 

226
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,360
you that they said I want to 
help this person, that that's my

227
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,800
my bet. 
I, I think you're absolutely 

228
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,720
right. 
I was, you know, very fortunate 

229
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,800
to have that experience. 
So what was your your early 

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00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,920
journalism? 
You're driving out to the local 

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news? 
Where, when did you say, you 

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know what? 
I'm jumping full-fledged into 

233
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,560
this journalism thing. 
And then how did you get 

234
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,360
yourself into your first gig 
doing that? 

235
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,800
So they made me a job offer 
basically to do a show, a Daily 

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00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,120
Show. 
And that's, that's how that 

237
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,000
happened. 
And, and I was going to say 

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that, you know, I mean, I've, 
I've done a lot of mentoring 

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00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,200
over my career. 
And one of the things is that 

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people say, you know, I didn't 
wish I hadn't wasted time on, 

241
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,400
you know, on Wall Street or 
whatever that I was not meant to

242
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,600
be there. 
And, and, you know, there was so

243
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,880
much that I, you can learn from 
a job that you're not enjoying 

244
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,760
as well. 
Number one, you fight, figure 

245
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,800
out what you don't enjoy about 
the job you're doing, and then 

246
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,200
you figure out what you do enjoy
about the job that you're doing.

247
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,080
And being at at Merrill Lynch 
and on Wall Street was really 

248
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,040
great training for, you know, 
calling people who don't 

249
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,640
necessarily want to talk to you 
right in journalism, being 

250
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,160
persistent. 
It was another quality that I 

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learned. 
And also when I was at Mitchell 

252
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,720
Hutchins, Mitchell Hutchins was 
a fabulous place to work because

253
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,000
they had access to research from
all the other firms on Wall 

254
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,000
Street at at the time. 
And, you know, you only got your

255
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,920
own research from your firm and 
it was limited at that. 

256
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,440
It as a retail broker, you got a
certain level of research and as

257
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,560
an institutional broker you got 
much more. 

258
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,960
At Mitchell Hutchins, I was 
working for their wealth 

259
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,560
management division. 
We got access to everything and 

260
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:42,520
we had consultants like Henry 
Kissinger, we had climatologists

261
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,200
at that time. 
We had, you know, demographers. 

262
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,880
So, and I'm one of them was to, 
to go to the, the meetings with 

263
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,360
all of these experts and then 
put together a synthesis for our

264
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,640
clients to, to explain what the,
the macro environment was. 

265
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,760
And, and then start, you know, 
taking it down to then, you 

266
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,640
know, well, what does this mean 
for certain industries? 

267
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,240
What does this mean for certain 
companies? 

268
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,280
And, you know, taking it all the
way down to the micro level. 

269
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,160
And that's what I found out, I 
really enjoyed. 

270
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,520
And that's why I decided I, I 
think I would, you know, do well

271
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,160
in, in journalism. 
It's very apparent as you're 

272
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,720
saying, that I'm reminded of 
your last two-part conversation 

273
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,720
with, I believe it was Ed Hyman,
right? 

274
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,440
Yeah. 
You know, and, and one of the 

275
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,640
things he said is he, he 
mentioned that I don't know if 

276
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,080
he said it was early in his 
career, if it's now, but it was 

277
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,360
something about demographics. 
And he said, Like I, I've 

278
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,400
focused on that and other people
maybe haven't as much as an 

279
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,120
economist. 
Right. 

280
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,880
And they did. 
They weren't at the time it was,

281
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,000
you know, total outlier. 
Like why would you be interested

282
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000
in demographics? 
And it turns out it's really 

283
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,880
important. 
And Ed Hyman, as a matter of 

284
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,880
fact, when we launched 
Wealthtrack in July of 2005, he 

285
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,160
was one of our first guests. 
Oh yeah, Long. 

286
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,720
Time. 
Yeah, So what was the show like?

287
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,280
I'm sorry to ask you so many 
about, but I'm curious about the

288
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,440
path to Wealthtrack. 
So which show? 

289
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,880
The first show that you did the 
The Daily Show. 

290
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,480
Oh, right. 
So, so I did well #1 on this is 

291
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,280
on channel 68 in New Jersey, I 
was doing a Daily Show. 

292
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,320
It was, it was live TV. 
It would, you know, we 

293
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,880
interviewed everybody you can 
imagine because we needed to get

294
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,720
people on the air and it was 
seat of the pants and it was it 

295
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,320
was trialed by fire, no question
about it. 

296
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,320
And then I got and so that was 
really interesting and luckily 

297
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,400
very few people were watching 
so. 

298
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,040
Making mistakes in in quiet, 
right? 

299
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,600
Yeah. 
And, and I got to know a lot of 

300
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,720
people on, on Wall Street 
because no one except for Lou 

301
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,120
Rukaiser was doing business 
journalism at the time. 

302
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,080
And so that was a really great 
launching pad. 

303
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,560
I, I don't think such a 
launching pad exists now, except

304
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,000
it does on online. 
People can, you know, can create

305
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,480
their own persona and everything
else online. 

306
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,880
If you get views, you can really
make a career out of it, which 

307
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,200
is very cool. 
And but anyway, so that that was

308
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,360
the first show and then then I 
went on to a venture capital 

309
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,760
backed program that was on ESPN.
It was a Daily Show called 

310
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,040
Business Times, which was the 
the 1st morning business show 

311
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,240
that was on cable. 
And then and that was for two 

312
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,840
years. 
And that was another pretty 

313
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,600
amazing experience. 
But it turned out that that we 

314
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,080
couldn't get the advertisers to 
sponsor a business show on ESPN,

315
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,720
even though that's where male 
viewers were, that that was the 

316
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,200
concept at the time. 
And then Disney happened to see 

317
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,200
me on doing business times and 
we pitched Disney. 

318
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,800
They had a, they had just 
started their independent 

319
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,840
production company, Buena Vista,
and we pitched the person who 

320
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,840
got in touch with me an idea of 
doing a daily business program, 

321
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,080
which I would be the sole anchor
of on network television. 

322
00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:00,280
And that was Today's business. 
And and that's, you know what we

323
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,680
did. 
We did a, a program that was a, 

324
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:08,599
it was a daily half hour morning
program syndicated on mostly CBS

325
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:10,960
affiliates, but also ABC and 
NBC. 

326
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,200
And it was before, like the 
Today show, for instance, or 

327
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,319
before Good Morning America. 
And that was a really great 

328
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,440
experience as well. 
Did you have pieces? 

329
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,040
Sorry. 
It was. 

330
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,240
It was big time. 
No, that was big time. 

331
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,800
Yeah, did did you have a team 
that went with you everywhere or

332
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,600
was it were you like how did the
you said I we pitched Disney, 

333
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,200
right? 
Did you have like a group that 

334
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:37,760
you said we're all going or was 
it? 

335
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,080
I'm Consuelo and I'd like to do 
this show and I think it'll 

336
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,200
work. 
Like, how did that? 

337
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,320
How did you make that happen and
who helped you make? 

338
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,440
That actually, no, that's a 
really good question because 

339
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,400
since today's business, I have 
had a team that's that's moved 

340
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,960
with me. 
But before that I didn't because

341
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,880
they were, they were really, you
know, small, tiny programs. 

342
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,280
I'm just trying to remember how 
it happened is that I got 

343
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,360
together with two men, a guy 
named Ron Tandelia, who was the 

344
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,360
youngest producer on the network
news program on television. 

345
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,840
He was Eyewitness News. 
He was a pioneer and he liked 

346
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,040
what I was doing. 
And then we had a, a, a post 

347
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,520
production guy producer out in, 
in LA and the three of us got 

348
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,360
together and then and we pitched
Disney. 

349
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,480
That's how that happened. 
And you know, it's all of you 

350
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,960
know, it's just dumb luck. 
It's what, how a lot of this 

351
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,560
these opportunities have come 
up. 

352
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,520
It has not been strategic at 
all, Bill. 

353
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,760
I wish I had been more 
strategic, but we, we weren't. 

354
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,080
It just, you know, we just kind 
of lucked out. 

355
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,480
Well, you were persistent, 
right? 

356
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,200
So persistence can create its 
own lock. 

357
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,840
Yeah. 
And the, and the markets are 

358
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,800
endlessly fascinating. 
And more and more people were 

359
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,720
doing, you know, their own 
investing. 

360
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,280
And so it, it was a great time 
to be in the market. 

361
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,880
And also the great bull market 
in bonds and stocks basically 

362
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,920
started in 1982. 
So the last, you know, decades 

363
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,200
have been pretty good times to 
be an an investor. 

364
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,200
Yeah, yeah, that is that is 
definitely true. 

365
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,880
What was the impetus to start 
Wealthtrack? 

366
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,560
Heda told me. 
I didn't realize that that 

367
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,960
Wealthtrack is your creation and
you run the business side of all

368
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,080
that. 
Is that correct? 

369
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,160
Do I have this? 
Wrong. 

370
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,480
God help us. 
Luckily, I have a fabulous 

371
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,600
senior producer and have had 
some terrific senior producers 

372
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,720
to run the business side of it. 
I'm mostly content, but you 

373
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,560
know, I, we do our own 
fundraising. 

374
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,880
So the, the story between I'm 
and I'm not going to, I'm not 

375
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,160
going to skip right to 
Wealthtrack because in between 

376
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,280
today's business and Wealthtrack
was an incredibly important time

377
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,440
in my career as a financial 
journalist. 

378
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,040
And that is that I I worked for 
the Wall Street Journal and I 

379
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,160
did their weekly television 
program, the Wall Street Journal

380
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,600
Report when they were doing 
that. 

381
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,880
And that was huge for me because
suddenly instead of being with 

382
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,680
these, you know, small 
independent productions, I was 

383
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,240
working for the Journal. 
And you know, who's raising 

384
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,760
debtra is to cover a business 
and finance. 

385
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,880
And that was a really fabulous 
experience. 

386
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,160
And that's really where I built 
the team that has then, you 

387
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,480
know, some of them have gone on 
with me to, to Wealthtrack. 

388
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,600
But, you know, there's just no 
other organization as far as 

389
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,360
that I've ever worked for, like 
the Wall Street Journal. 

390
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,800
Little bit easier for to get 
people on the phone when you're 

391
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,680
at the Journal as opposed to 
Channel 68 or something like 

392
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,360
that, right? 
Yes, it was, yeah, a lot easier.

393
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:39,360
And, and also we were able to, 
you know, talk to the reporters 

394
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,000
and, and also I, I was the only 
actually journalist at the Wall 

395
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,720
Street Journal that had access 
to both the, The Newsroom, which

396
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,600
is completely separate from the 
editorial page, which is one of 

397
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,480
the things that I love about the
Wall Street Journal. 

398
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,240
You really get 2 newspapers in 
one. 

399
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,840
There is, there is no overlap. 
And I think this is so important

400
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,160
to recognize where whereas in 
many other publications the 

401
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,800
editorial bent bleeds into the 
reporting staff. 

402
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,400
It does not at the Wall Street 
Journal at all. 

403
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,560
And, and so, but I was able to 
have access to the editorial 

404
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,320
page because Bob Bartley was the
editorial page, head of the 

405
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,040
editorial page at the time, 
liked me, liked what I was doing

406
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,320
and said, you know, why don't 
you attend some of our meetings 

407
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,280
and, and which was just great. 
And so that I got access to like

408
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,640
Margaret Thatcher, for instance,
and, and, you know, Helmut Kohl.

409
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,200
And so, you know, these, you 
know, major world figures would 

410
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,560
come in and I would go to 
meetings with them and Bob and 

411
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,000
others on the editorial page 
would say, you know, do you want

412
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,280
us to try to have give you 
access for an interview? 

413
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,040
And, and sometimes they'd say 
yes and sometimes they'd say no.

414
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,680
And Margaret Thatcher said yes. 
And that was like a once in a 

415
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,040
lifetime experience. 
Yeah, that's amazing. 

416
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,120
So what what? 
I mean, what was that like? 

417
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,000
How nervous were you getting in 
going into that interview? 

418
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,120
A wreck. 
I was a total wreck. 

419
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,760
I still get very nervous in 
interviews. 

420
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,720
I know, but Margaret Thatcher? 
Is slightly nervous at this 

421
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,840
interview but but Margaret 
Thatcher was daunting because 

422
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,600
she did not suffer fools gladly 
and you really had to know what 

423
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,800
you're talking about. 
And quite honestly, I still feel

424
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,200
to this day that I was not up to
the task, but it was just awe 

425
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,920
inspiring because she had such a
clear vision and of, of what she

426
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,400
wanted to do as the Prime 
Minister of the UK. 

427
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,880
And, and her alliance with the 
United States, with Ronald 

428
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,680
Reagan. 
And they, they moved the world. 

429
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,800
Without them, their, you know, 
Berlin Wall wouldn't have fallen

430
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,920
or they wouldn't have, you know,
been the dissipation of the 

431
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,440
Soviet Union. 
I mean, she really made a huge 

432
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,480
difference and in bringing the 
UK economy back. 

433
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,000
So that was a tremendous 
privilege for me to interview 

434
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,160
Margaret Thatcher, one of the 
highlights of my career. 

435
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:11,640
When you were at that time right
around, let's call it 81 to 85, 

436
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,440
like throughout that, did you 
like, could you feel a change 

437
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,720
going on in in the markets and 
and like was it apparent that a 

438
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,920
bull market was starting? 
The reason I ask, you know, is 

439
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,720
I, I was just listening to the 
like I referenced earlier, 

440
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,320
right, Ed Heidman saying it 
could be the roaring twenty 20s,

441
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,960
it could be the 30s. 
Like I'm I'm curious to know. 

442
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,160
Right. 
And that's actually Ed Yardeni. 

443
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,200
I'm. 
Sorry, I'm sorry. 

444
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,360
Ed Yardeni. 
You said that. 

445
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:40,160
That's OK. 
Apologize. 

446
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,240
No, not at all. 
But but Ed Yard, Ed Yardeni is 

447
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,600
the one who said that this could
be the Roaring 20s. 

448
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,120
Yeah, again, the Twenty 20s. 
Yeah. 

449
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,640
And and I'm just kind of 
curious, like when, when the 

450
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,320
bull market of the secular bull 
started in the 80s, could you 

451
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,840
feel it or, or did people not? 
No. 

452
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,640
Yeah, no, as a matter of fact, I
had Jim Grant on for the 40th 

453
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,920
anniversary of Grant's interest 
rate observer. 

454
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:09,480
And he noted, you know, and this
is what I love about my guess is

455
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,560
that they're very honest about 
what they've missed. 

456
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,560
And so, you know, he said like, 
you know, 198182. 

457
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,920
Did I have any idea that this 
was the start of the greatest 

458
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,880
bull market in, you know, in in 
bond history? 

459
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,160
And no, you didn't feel it at 
all. 

460
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,120
It was. 
It was. 

461
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,920
You know who knew? 
Yeah. 

462
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,200
Well, you know, it's, it's so 
interesting because I think, 

463
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,120
yeah, I, I don't know, I don't 
know where we are now, right. 

464
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,720
So, so it's interesting to read 
history and, and, and in in 

465
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,280
retrospect, it's like, well, of 
course, you know, interest rates

466
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:47,000
were that high and markets had 
kind of gone nowhere for a 

467
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:47,960
while. 
Of course that would be the 

468
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,160
bull, but that it's when you're.
Living it, it's not so easy. 

469
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,800
No, not at all The you know, the
remember the 87 market crash and

470
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,640
I, I can remember I think it was
1984 that Alan Greenspan, you 

471
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,080
know, raised interest rates and 
I was on vacation. 

472
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,000
I kind of went, Helen, what are 
you doing? 

473
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,440
The market, you know, did, did 
not do well at that time. 

474
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,040
It's fits and starts, but you 
know, if you look at the history

475
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,520
of the market, it goes up, you 
know, much more than it goes 

476
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,480
down. 
But you know, behavioral 

477
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,960
economics will tell you that, 
you know, that you feel your 

478
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,120
losses twice as much as you feel
your gains. 

479
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,960
And so you know in the meantime,
all of us are focused on kind of

480
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,000
the short term machinations of 
the market and and it's can be 

481
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,280
very upsetting. 
You have access to to some of 

482
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,640
the smartest minds. 
Do you feel more in tune with 

483
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,880
the market because you get to 
talk to people that you get to 

484
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,800
talk to or do you not feel as in
tune like or or somewhere in 

485
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,680
between? 
That's an interesting question 

486
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960
because I've, I've, in 
preparation for this interview, 

487
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,600
I've been thinking about, you 
know, what have I learned? 

488
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,440
And one of the things is it's 
not so much, and one of the 

489
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,480
reasons that I started 
Wealthtrack is it's the great 

490
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,360
investors don't focus on what's 
going on in the market. 

491
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,920
They focus on what's going on 
with individual companies. 

492
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,320
It's as simple as that. 
And so, you know, it's, there's 

493
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,360
all the noise of the markets, 
which is one of the reasons that

494
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:22,480
I, you know, left CNBC to, to 
start Wealthtrack is that that, 

495
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,080
you know, if, if you have to 
cover the markets on a daily 

496
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,040
basis, the markets become the 
story. 

497
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,320
And, and I felt that I needed to
step away from the markets and 

498
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,080
that for individual investors 
that it's, and also for, I, I 

499
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,360
think quite honestly, for most 
active investors that, that you 

500
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:48,160
have to focus on, on longer term
wealth building in companies. 

501
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,240
And so they, you know, long term
diversified investing in depth 

502
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,360
interviews about with great 
investors about long term 

503
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,920
diversified investing is kind of
is, is, has, is now our 

504
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,840
signature on wealth track and 
that's what sets us apart. 

505
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,280
But so, no, I, I don't, you 
know, they, everybody pays 

506
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,560
attention to the markets, but 
that's not what is driving their

507
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,040
investment decisions. 
Yeah, You know what I love about

508
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,120
Wealthtrack? 
I mean, other than listening to 

509
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:17,680
you interview people, which is 
awesome, but like you've now 

510
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,960
been doing it for so long that 
like I can listen. 

511
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,000
We were, we were talking about 
Bruce Berkowitz, who I know that

512
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,040
you brought some lessons from. 
So I can listen to him pitch 

513
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,320
Sears on your program and listen
to that pitch. 

514
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,160
And now I can listen to the 
recent interview that you did 

515
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,680
when he's talking about Saint 
Joe and controlling the outcome 

516
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,360
and talking about how Freddie 
and Fannie changed his 

517
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,040
perception of the legal rights 
regulators country. 

518
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,600
Yeah. 
And and Enterprise Products. 

519
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,520
He says, you know, 7 or 8% isn't
so bad if you just do that 

520
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,600
forever. 
It's kind of interesting to be 

521
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,040
able to go and watch your 
interactions with different 

522
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320
investors over time. 
Well, that, you know, I think 

523
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,360
Bruce Berkowitz is probably one 
of the most fascinating guests 

524
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:05,320
that I've had along over the 
years and that's been a well 

525
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,520
track exclusive and he hasn't 
come on too often, but Manhattan

526
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,520
Adler represents him as you 
know, and and you know, it was a

527
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,800
time to talk and we've been and 
so he felt he he really was 

528
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,280
willing to talk about what's 
been happening with the 

529
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,960
Fairholme fund. 
And you know, the Fairholme fund

530
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,680
has a phenomenal track record. 
You just had to stick with it. 

531
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,400
So I, you know, I'm just, I'm 
just looking, it's, you know, 

532
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,240
10% annual has returned since 
its 1999 inception and versus 

533
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,520
the S&P 6% returns. 
This was a, a couple of months 

534
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,320
ago. 
But, and, and that's another, 

535
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,120
you know, one of the lessons 
that I've learned is that if, if

536
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,080
you're going to invest with an 
active manager that that you've 

537
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,280
chosen because, you know, you 
believe in their discipline, you

538
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,480
believe in their culture, you 
believe in what they're doing it

539
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,280
which it's a good fit for your 
portfolio, then you've got to 

540
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,240
stick with them because you 
can't time an active manager. 

541
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,720
And Bruce Berkowitz is a a case 
in point, as is Bill Miller, 

542
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,680
incidentally, is a case in point
is, you know, another great 

543
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,560
investor that, you know, had 
setbacks. 

544
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,720
Well, duh. 
I mean, every, every great 

545
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,080
investor has setbacks where 
they're underperforming the 

546
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,760
market and and they make 
mistakes and they learn from 

547
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,360
those mistakes. 
But you know, in general the 

548
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,440
great investors have terrific 
long term track records. 

549
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,480
You just got to stick with them.
Yeah, and, and as an investor, 

550
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,760
it I have found it's hard to 
separate, you know, when when 

551
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,080
stocks are going against you or 
me, I'll just personalize it. 

552
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,840
You know, it's hard not to let's
say I hired Bruce and I'm 

553
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,840
watching Sears happen and, and 
some of the other stocks aren't 

554
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,760
going our way. 
I it's hard to not like it's 

555
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,800
hard to. 
That's when you find out, can 

556
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,680
you actually be married to the 
person, right? 

557
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,600
It's like when the trust is 
truly tested, can you stick? 

558
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,720
It's all it's easy when things 
are going well and that's that's

559
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,680
the key, right? 
That's what separates. 

560
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,760
That's why so few investors tend
to actually realize the returns 

561
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,440
of the underlying securities 
that. 

562
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,520
That they own. 
There's this huge 

563
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,120
underperformance gap that we've 
covered a lot on well truck over

564
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,120
the years. 
The morning starts done, you 

565
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,400
know, research on I think as is 
the investment company 

566
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,800
institute, but you know the 
investor, individual investor in

567
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,760
a in an individual fund, you 
know way underperforms the fund 

568
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,720
itself. 
Why do you think that is? 

569
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,720
I, I, I have a theory that it's 
probably that they're over 

570
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,440
allocated, so that kind of a 
drawdown really hurts them more 

571
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,880
than everybody should. 
I, I think right, no, no, I, I, 

572
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,440
I, I think it is because 
thinking fast and slow, Daniel 

573
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,520
Kahneman's wonderful book, of 
course, he just died the Nobel 

574
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,800
Prize winner. 
And you know his, his point is 

575
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,040
that human beings are not 
rational and we're, we're very 

576
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:15,240
biased and, and we think that 
short term results are going to 

577
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,440
last and therefore we make, we 
make really stupid investment 

578
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,720
decisions. 
So it's it, it is that the 

579
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:26,720
factor that losses are, you 
know, twice as painful at least 

580
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,000
as as gains are. 
Yeah, yes, there's a different 

581
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,760
but similar thought that I've 
read and and I just want to put 

582
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,680
it out there. 
It's negative thinking is almost

583
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,640
100% effective, right I think. 
That's kind of interesting. 

584
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,320
I think it's kind of. 
Interesting, and it's all a lot 

585
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,040
brings. 
Truth to it. 

586
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,040
And it's infective too. 
It's a whole lot easier to get 

587
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,240
your brain to go negative than 
it is to get positive. 

588
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,000
And and I right, it rhymes with 
investing. 

589
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,040
Not the same. 
But, well, not only that, I 

590
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,920
mean, another thought that some 
of my guests have had as well is

591
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,600
that you get a lot more 
attention if you're negative, 

592
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,240
too. 
You know, the press loves to 

593
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,240
talk to people who are negative.
You know, who wants a positive 

594
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,040
story? 
So it's. 

595
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,160
Yeah. 
Yeah, so how did, how have you 

596
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,560
maintained your integrity and 
gone about your business and the

597
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,640
way that you have without 
chasing, you know, macro doomers

598
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,840
that that would help probably 
your ratings. 

599
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,640
But I, I love tuning into your 
show 'cause I, I truly know that

600
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:35,040
I'm I'm gonna get a conversation
that's rational and topical. 

601
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,800
And how do you avoid that 
temptation to chase the ratings?

602
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,160
Right. 
Well, I'm on public television, 

603
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,880
PBS, so they don't pay a lot of 
attention to ratings. 

604
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,120
At least they haven't with us. 
We're a niche program that makes

605
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,600
a huge difference. 
I couldn't do this on network 

606
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,360
television, no question about 
it. 

607
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,040
And, and because we're an 
educational program, you know, 

608
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,200
we're really trying to educate 
our our audience about how to be

609
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,440
good investors and make, you 
know, good financial decisions. 

610
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,120
So that's why I don't have to 
chase that. 

611
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,360
But I have to admit it was, you 
know, the people who were, you 

612
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,880
know, concerned leading up 
certainly to the to the.com 

613
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,960
bubble. 
And as, as you know, I mean, you

614
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,480
know, greats like Julian 
Robertson said, I don't 

615
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,480
understand this business 
anymore. 

616
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,000
So I'm I'm going to get out of 
the business. 

617
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,440
And, you know, we, we reached 
that point where the exhaustion 

618
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,760
of fighting the dot a bubble, 
it's, it was really hard to have

619
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,920
people on. 
I mean, Dave Rosenberg talked 

620
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,760
about that, who used to, you 
know, was the chief economist at

621
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,920
Merrill Lynch for a while now 
has Rosenberg research out of 

622
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,040
Canada. 
And you know, he was saying 

623
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,080
Merrill Lynch forbade him from 
using the word bear market 

624
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,760
because it was a bull market. 
And he, it's, it's really hard 

625
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,600
to withstand the, the pressure 
of any sort of a bull market or,

626
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,880
or an enduring bear market. 
So I've, I've certainly has been

627
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,679
as susceptible as anyone to 
that, where it's hard to have 

628
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:16,800
people, you know, the broken 
clock is right twice a day. 

629
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,000
It's hard to have people who 
have been very bearish when 

630
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,560
you're in a bull market. 
Yeah, I, I guess what I was 

631
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,600
thinking is, is you could very 
easily do a lot of macro 

632
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,800
podcasts and, or, or interviews 
or whatever. 

633
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,040
And, and you, you don't and, and
I really respect how you go 

634
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,480
about it. 
And I am going to take your PBS 

635
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,199
comment as you've set yourself 
up in a structurally advantage 

636
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,520
situation, much like a fund 
manager that maybe has permanent

637
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,480
capital because, you know, I 
don't know, I care about how 

638
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,920
many people listen to this, 
right. 

639
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,760
But, but there's something about
I don't want to go down that 

640
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,159
route. 
That route seems very 

641
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:57,000
unfulfilling chasing the the 
views and the next who can be 

642
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,760
scarier type interviews. 
I don't. 

643
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,680
I don't like that, but that's 
what gets the clicks. 

644
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,920
Right, except, you know, I just 
I'm not I wouldn't be good at 

645
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,280
that. 
So that's another thing, you 

646
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,800
know, I wanted and and I'm I 
learn from every program that I 

647
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,240
do. 
I mean, honestly, when I, you 

648
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:20,280
know, interview my guest that 
we, you know, handpick that have

649
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,840
tremendous track records that 
are known for their integrity, 

650
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,360
that are respected by their 
peers that are rated by 

651
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,600
independent agencies like 
Morningstar. 

652
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,800
Those are the guests that we 
have on. 

653
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,200
And I find them fascinating 
because they, they love what 

654
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,200
they're doing. 
Bill, you know, you've said this

655
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,040
on your podcast. 
They're, they're constantly 

656
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,360
challenging themselves and, you 
know, they have a tremendous, 

657
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,560
they have a discipline, they 
stick to it. 

658
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,280
And I, I think they have 
intellectual integrity and, and 

659
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,160
it's, it's hard, you know, those
are fewer, far and fewer between

660
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,160
now because of the passive, the 
move to passive investing is, is

661
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,920
the default option now. 
And so it's, it's very, you 

662
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,720
know, it's hard to be an active 
manager these days. 

663
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,400
And yet I think that it, it can 
be still incredibly rewarding 

664
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,640
because fewer and fewer people 
are doing it, you know, and 

665
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,760
you're competing against the 
indexes and you're also 

666
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,240
competing against all the quants
and the, the machines that seem 

667
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,520
to have done very well. 
But you know, when's that gonna 

668
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,480
blow up or when, when will 
their, their performance become 

669
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,080
average? 
Because everyone's doing it. 

670
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,520
Yeah, I don't know. 
I, I was having a conversation 

671
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:39,640
with an RAA yesterday and he's 
a, a go getter type and I, I 

672
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:40,840
enjoyed talking to him very 
much. 

673
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,440
But one thing that he said is he
said, well, public markets 

674
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,440
investing is, is really pretty 
easy. 

675
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,720
You just need to put your, your 
clients in the SMP because 

676
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,040
that's what clients are gonna 
care about anyway. 

677
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,240
So you do the SMP with some 
structured notes and that kind 

678
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,520
of provides you with some 
downside protection and yadda, 

679
00:36:58,520 --> 00:36:59,960
yadda. 
And I was like, I don't know 

680
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,520
about this, but I do. 
I do believe that a lot of 

681
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,800
people are thinking that way and
it's an interesting guide. 

682
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,760
Right, because you know, it's 
easy. 

683
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,080
Well, it's just the market. 
It's easy to defend yourself. 

684
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,960
It's just the market versus, 
well, why did you choose that 

685
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,640
particular money manager? 
And it is, it's the default 

686
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,320
option. 
It's it's, it works for most 

687
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,120
people, I think. 
And, but I think there's still 

688
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,160
tremendous room for top active 
managers and, and they can 

689
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,480
protect you in down markets, 
whereas if you're in an index 

690
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,040
fund, you have no protection and
you're investing in everything 

691
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,680
regardless of what the quality 
is. 

692
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,960
So I mean, I'm, I'm still a huge
believer in active management 

693
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,520
and I'd certainly easier for me 
to interview an active manager 

694
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,240
than it is to interview an 
index. 

695
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:51,040
That would be a tough one that 
has a little something to do 

696
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,160
with it too. 
That's on the come Consuelo. 

697
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,520
Microsoft just released those 
faces that can talk, so. 

698
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,640
Yeah, believe me, I'm easily 
replaceable. 

699
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,120
I know. 
No question. 

700
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,160
I don't know about that, but but
the go ahead. 

701
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,800
No, no, no, please. 
Well, the other fun thing is 

702
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,120
that, you know, passive indexes 
are not passive at all. 

703
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,360
So we did a really fun interview
with Jerry O'Reilly, who is the 

704
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,520
portfolio manager of the world's
largest index fund, which is the

705
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,000
largest mutual fund. 
I'm sorry, it's the the 

706
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,360
Vanguard, you know, all market 
mutual fund. 

707
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,880
And I probably got the exact 
name wrong because he is 

708
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,280
managing several. 
But at any rate, so Jerry 

709
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,760
O'Reilly is on the trading floor
every day, and they're 

710
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,520
constantly reconstituting the 
S&P 500 and the S&P 1500, and it

711
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,600
is an active manager's job. 
And so, you know, who are we 

712
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,560
kidding? 
There's still a lot going on in 

713
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,440
these passive indexes that 
aren't so passive. 

714
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,080
Yeah, it's, it's going to be 
very interesting. 

715
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:58,520
I did pull up because I, I've 
been on this ETF journey and I 

716
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,800
reread Joel Greenblatt's, what 
is it? 

717
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,600
He calls it? 
It's still the big secret for 

718
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,440
the small investor because no 
one read it. 

719
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,200
But you know, like the, the VTV,
that's a pretty interesting 

720
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,280
index. 
I, I kinda, I can get my head 

721
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,880
around that one for the long 
term, right? 

722
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:18,000
Like the S&P with a value tilt. 
That makes sense to me, but I 

723
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,080
don't, I don't know. 
I just have this nagging 

724
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,800
feeling, and maybe it's from 
living through the GFC, that 

725
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,480
when everybody's on one side of 
the boat, sometimes things go 

726
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,280
really wrong. 
No, and that's where you need, 

727
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,440
you know, diversification in one
of the one of our guests, a guy 

728
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,400
named Peter Bernstein, who wrote
against the gods, the remarkable

729
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,840
story of risk, which is a 
wonderful book. 

730
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,760
You know, it said, I mean two 
things to me that have stuck 

731
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,000
with me. 
One, the future is unknowable. 

732
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,880
Just repeat that the future is 
unknowable. 

733
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,600
The future is unknowable. 
Peter always said that which is 

734
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,440
true. 
No one has a, a, an accurate 

735
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,440
crystal ball. 
And, and I'm just trying to 

736
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,080
think what and the other one was
the other quote that Peter 

737
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,840
Bernstein said on Wealthtrack, 
which is really terrific, is 

738
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,320
that you're not truly 
diversified unless you own 

739
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,440
something that you are 
uncomfortable with. 

740
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,320
And So what you're talking about
as being on, if everybody is on 

741
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,680
one side of the boat, you're not
diversified, you're not fully 

742
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,760
diversified and and you have to 
own things that are. 

743
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,720
That you're uncomfortable with 
and at one point when gold was 

744
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:27,960
going nowhere and Peter, you 
know, we were talking about gold

745
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,520
being something that you're 
uncomfortable with as a 

746
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,720
basically an insurance policy 
against the unthinkable. 

747
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,840
And. 
And there are through you know, 

748
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,560
throughout different market 
periods, there are times when 

749
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,120
you know small cap value for 
instances goes through periods 

750
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,280
of being very unpopular emerging
markets right now for. 

751
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,200
Small cap value too the last 10 
years has not been kind. 

752
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,360
No, it has not been. 
And yet Chuck Royce has been one

753
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,600
of my exclusive Wealthtrack 
guests over the years who just 

754
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,120
celebrated his 50th anniversary 
at the, you know, Pennsylvania 

755
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,880
mutual fund. 
And and his track record long 

756
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,640
term is also very good. 
And he's, you know, he's Chuck 

757
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,800
and Royce associates. 
They are small cap managers. 

758
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,080
That's all we're going to do. 
And if you want to be 

759
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,680
diversified into small cap, then
Royce is is a place that you 

760
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,840
know that they're not gonna 
deviate and they will find value

761
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,640
in the small cap space because 
there is value there. 

762
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,120
Yeah, yeah. 
That, that I've watched. 

763
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,480
I mean, they're sort of my proxy
for AUM flowing out of small 

764
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,240
caps. 
And it's, it's been interesting 

765
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,280
to watch. 
It's not because of performance,

766
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,320
I don't think. 
I think it's just because you 

767
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,440
know, it's hard to look at it at
A at an asset class that is not 

768
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,760
performing relative to asset 
classes that are and not get 

769
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,280
that. 
FOMO, right? 

770
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,880
Absolutely. 
The more things change and stay.

771
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,000
The same. 
No, they do. 

772
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,200
And it's, and again, listening 
to your podcast with, with 

773
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,960
Matthew Sweeney is what's very 
difficult to be a value investor

774
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,720
anyhow. 
And because you're looking at 

775
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,760
companies that are unpopular or 
that are unrecognized and you 

776
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,400
are going against the flow. 
And I remember a couple of Jean 

777
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,880
Marie of a yard who was at first
Eagle ran the first Eagle fund 

778
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,960
and, and Matt McLennan, who took
over for him in the midst of the

779
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,200
financial crisis in 2008. 
So Matt has been a, a, you know,

780
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,800
a regular guest on Wealthtrack 
as well. 

781
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,920
And, you know, they are, they 
just kind of have to ignore 

782
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,400
what, what the markets are 
telling them as far as what's 

783
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,920
really popular and just keep 
looking for those, you know, 

784
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,760
resilient companies that are 
going to compound over the years

785
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,720
and that are financially strong.
You know that you're not going 

786
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,840
to, you know, lose money, the 
permanent impairment of capital,

787
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,000
which is a mortal sin. 
If you're a money manager. 

788
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,360
And, and you know, they're, you 
can rely on them to continue to 

789
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,720
do the kind of value investing 
that they've been doing for 

790
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:06,880
years. 
But it, it's, it's not easy. 

791
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,680
It takes a really strong 
stomach. 

792
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,400
Yeah. 
And to your point, sticking with

793
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,840
somebody. 
Right, Right. 

794
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,960
Yeah, right. 
I I don't think I asked you 

795
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,080
this, but but it's on my mind. 
You had mentioned that you vet 

796
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,520
the guests. 
What does it look like? 

797
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,360
What does the Consuela Mac 
vetting process look like? 

798
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,520
When people are pinging you to 
get onto Wealthtrack, what are 

799
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,400
some of your filters? 
Well, they have to have a track 

800
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,040
record and it's really at least 
20 years. 

801
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,280
So I, I want to see how they've 
done through several market 

802
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,680
cycles, word of mouth. 
So you know, who do you pay 

803
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,840
attention to? 
You know, who do you listen to 

804
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,920
Bill? 
Who when a, when a, a 

805
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,280
shareholder letter comes out, 
you know, what are you reading? 

806
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,760
So it's peer-to-peer respect. 
It's, you know, recognition of, 

807
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,960
as I said, independent 
resources, independent 

808
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,040
evaluators and, and also what is
there, we have a no jerks rule 

809
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,160
on Wealthtrack is that I know 
I've interviewed before 

810
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,320
Wealthtrack, which is now we're 
in our 20th season, going into 

811
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,200
our 20th season, you know, I've,
I've had to interview a lot of 

812
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,520
different people that I had no 
control over the booking of and 

813
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,920
life's too short. 
So I, I want to interview people

814
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,600
that I like and that I respect 
and, and are known for their 

815
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,960
integrity. 
Integrity is really important 

816
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:33,800
and the culture of a firm is 
really important because there, 

817
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,320
there were so many changes going
on in, in Wall Street firms and 

818
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,440
also in the mutual fund 
industry, 'cause I'm, I'm 

819
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,920
dealing with products that that 
individual investors can invest 

820
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,200
with. 
And so, you know, you will see, 

821
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,400
you know, funds that aren't 
doing well retired or merged 

822
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,680
into another fund or not 
necessarily a bad thing, but, 

823
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,240
but, or a money manager that at 
one point, you know, said that 

824
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,600
they were in this specialty and 
now suddenly they've changed, 

825
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,160
you know, now they've become a 
growth fund. 

826
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,880
And so those are really 
important to me the, the 

827
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,400
culture, because any of us 
individual investors, we have a,

828
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,200
a, a long investing life. 
If you're starting in your 20s, 

829
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,840
you know, we're talking about 60
or 70 years of investing. 

830
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,480
So I you want to be with firms 
that are that you can trust that

831
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,920
are going to be around and that 
are, are going to continue to to

832
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,560
do what you're they're best at. 
So in integrity and the culture 

833
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,360
of the firms that I interviewed 
are really important. 

834
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,280
And I don't mean to put words in
your mouth, but what I'm hearing

835
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,040
when you're talking is that you 
seem very passionate about the 

836
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,920
individual investor and I mean 
certainly in will track, it's 

837
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,520
apparent that you are doing a 
service like where did that come

838
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,360
from in you? 
Why do you think that's 

839
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,440
something that drives you, 
assuming I'm right? 

840
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,080
Right. 
I think probably it comes from 

841
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,240
my family and terrific parents 
and wonderful brother, great 

842
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:04,240
grandparents who really felt how
important it was to be honest 

843
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:07,200
with individuals and to be as 
helpful as you can, a real 

844
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,080
public service orientation. 
So that really is what motivates

845
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,800
me. 
It's this is where I'm doing a 

846
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,440
public service on public 
television. 

847
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,120
Yeah, I like it. 
That's how I tried to treat this

848
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,400
podcast. 
I, I've, I've said to myself, I,

849
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:28,000
I wanted something that I wanted
to build something that if I 

850
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,520
were kind of giving to my son, 
right, or to my kids, like what,

851
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,560
what would I say? 
Listen to this and then figure 

852
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,160
out how you think of the world. 
I don't care if you agree with 

853
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,280
me. 
I don't care if you agree with 

854
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,640
any particular guest. 
I care about you listening to 

855
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,720
people's perspectives and 
figuring out what resonates with

856
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:47,400
you. 
And that's what I'm trying to 

857
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,080
build, which is it's, it's 
fulfilling, right? 

858
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,000
It is definitely. 
Yeah. 

859
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,480
How has journalism changed since
you started? 

860
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,240
Has it always kind of been after
like the story of the day? 

861
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:06,320
Is that is it more that? 
Way now tremendously as have the

862
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,840
markets. 
I mean there are so many more 

863
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:13,880
options and journalism, as you 
said, it's you know, it's turned

864
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,800
into clicks and attracting 
clicks. 

865
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:22,960
So there's, there is a, there's 
a lot of unserious journalism 

866
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,560
out there. 
Certainly, you know, on the 

867
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,480
Internet, no question about 
that. 

868
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,280
And it's very competitive. 
And you have to recognize that 

869
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,120
people are shorter attention 
spans. 

870
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,040
I mean, if you're, if you're 
really in this to have a 

871
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:42,200
profitable business, which I'm 
not because at any rate. 

872
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:45,360
We have things in common. 
Yeah, we should be a 

873
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,440
not-for-profit, but we're not. 
But at any rate, so journalism 

874
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,480
has changed tremendously. 
And that's why it's so important

875
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,920
to have the Wall Street Journal 
or the Financial Times. 

876
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,320
I mean, I think editors are 
really important because 

877
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:04,560
pressure now is to deliver the 
information first, regardless of

878
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,120
whether it's right or not. 
And that's really dangerous. 

879
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:13,760
And so I, I think that there is 
a, a, a big gap growing between 

880
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,360
people who are, who really are 
journalists and do their 

881
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,560
homework and, and check and 
double check because that takes 

882
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,640
time. 
And the rest of the, I mean, a 

883
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,760
lot of podcasters and I'm not 
putting them down, but people 

884
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,680
who are just interested in 
hearing their own opinions. 

885
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,160
As I opine, here I am. 
That's not true. 

886
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:35,760
You're on my show. 
That's different. 

887
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:37,840
Yeah, I think so. 
I think there's a huge divide 

888
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,160
between really good journalism 
and just kind of sensational 

889
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:43,480
opinions. 
Yeah. 

890
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,840
And so that's that's been a, a 
big, big change and the markets 

891
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,040
have changed tremendously. 
I mean, they're much more 

892
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,040
democratic than they've ever 
been. 

893
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,280
I mean, I can, you know, I have 
a, one of our guests is a guy 

894
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,840
named Bill Wilby who used to run
the Oppenheimer World Fund. 

895
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:05,720
That was the number one global 
fund when he was running it many

896
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:08,280
years ago for the 12 years that 
he ran it. 

897
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,280
And, and you know, Bill was 
saying that that he's basically 

898
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,600
unplugged from research from all
of the like Bloomberg and, and I

899
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,280
don't want to, you know, 
disparage Bloomberg because 

900
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,840
they're phenomenal. 
They were wonderful service. 

901
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,120
But he said, you know, I can 
just go online now and on Google

902
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,680
and there are just a few things 
that I need to subscribe to in 

903
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,040
order to run my own retirement 
portfolio. 

904
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,480
And so that's a huge change as 
well. 

905
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,080
And of course, the, you know, 
deregulation since I have been 

906
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,320
in the business since the 70s, I
mean, commissions were 

907
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,440
deregulated and interest rates 
were deregulated. 

908
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,440
And there's just been a 
tremendous explosion of the 

909
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,680
financial news with CNBC and the
financial news network and then 

910
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,440
CNBC and, you know, now Fox 
Business News said there are a 

911
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,920
ton of resources out there. 
It's, it's overwhelming. 

912
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,280
And that's, I think what we're 
trying to do on Wealthtrack, at 

913
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,600
least I find it overwhelming is 
just talk to known quantities 

914
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,920
who again, you know, have the 
track records that I, they're 

915
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,320
true professionals. 
And so once a week, that's what 

916
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,840
we're trying to do. 
Have an in depth discussion with

917
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,720
an individual about the process,
their investment process and how

918
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:24,960
they see the, the world and, and
what their investment strategies

919
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,400
are. 
And we just ask them for one 

920
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,440
investment idea at the end of 
every program. 

921
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,480
We're not getting 100 investment
ideas like you know you would 

922
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,560
on, on CNBC, which does a great 
job covering the markets on a 

923
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,120
daily basis, but you're gonna 
get one like is there one thing 

924
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,880
that we should all own in a long
term diversified portfolio? 

925
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:45,080
So that's how I've we've really 
set ourselves apart and I'm not 

926
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,560
gonna deviate from that. 
Yeah, nor should you. 

927
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,080
I I think it's a winning 
formula. 

928
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,640
I these are my words, not yours.
But I did. 

929
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,440
CNBC does a great job of keeping
people tuned in. 

930
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,840
I don't know about all the 
although if David Faber, if 

931
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,280
you're listening, you are the 
real deal. 

932
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,720
I love David Faber, that guy. 
'S Oh, he's wonderful. 

933
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:06,000
He's legit. 
They've got a they've got a 

934
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,280
number of people that are good 
over there. 

935
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,000
But you. 
Know it's just it's an insanity.

936
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,800
It's terrific. 
It is terrific, but it's it's 

937
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,920
they have a different mission 
and they've got to cover the 

938
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,160
markets and the markets is their
story. 

939
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,000
No, I'm, you know, I'm a huge 
fan of CNBC, so no question 

940
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,920
about it. 
But I wanted to do something 

941
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,000
different and, you know, CNBC 
probably wouldn't be interested 

942
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,440
in the kind of program that I'm 
doing. 

943
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,160
Yeah, yeah. 
It would have to be on like late

944
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,760
night or something like that, 
right? 

945
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,520
It it it could not be. 
But they've got Shark Tank and 

946
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,960
they've got, you know, they've 
got these wonderful programs, 

947
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,240
they're doing great. 
So, you know, I'm a huge fan. 

948
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:47,080
It's just that there there's 
room for a different message and

949
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,000
a different approach, and that's
what Wealthtrack is. 

950
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,320
What's What's your audience 
demo? 

951
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,640
Do you have any idea? 
Right. 

952
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,280
No, no, I mean we do, we, we 
don't get Nielsen because 

953
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,120
Nielsen's really expensive to 
get. 

954
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,640
So but we do know what are 
because we do surveys. 

955
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,560
And so, you know, our audience 
demos are largely college 

956
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:11,640
educated graduate degrees, well,
middle to and up, middle income 

957
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,120
and up and about, I guess about 
40% of our audience is actually 

958
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:20,040
under 44. 
And the other, you know, 60% is 

959
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,840
over 45. 
So that's where our demographics

960
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,480
are. 
And, and it's, it's largely men 

961
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,000
still. 
I mean, I, our audience for 

962
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,560
women is growing, but, and 
having, you know, online has 

963
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,120
just been a huge boon to our 
audience growth. 

964
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,000
And that's where we're 
attracting the, the younger 

965
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,040
viewers is on our YouTube 
channel. 

966
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,240
So, you know, if you go on 
wealthtalk.com, you can, you 

967
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:47,360
know, stream us and, and we do 
podcasts, not as many as you do,

968
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:51,200
but the show is, is actually is 
available as a podcast. 

969
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,760
So yeah. 
And we, we're, we're going 

970
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,560
without doing any advertising or
it's all organic growth and word

971
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,200
of mouth and you know, the 
wonderful linkages that that 

972
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,800
YouTube does. 
I think I found you through the 

973
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,200
Apple podcast player. 
I think I think, you know, 

974
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,120
2018-2019 or something you 
recommended. 

975
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,440
And I started listening and I 
was like, oh, this is great. 

976
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,520
So yeah, interesting. 
What? 

977
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,040
What we? 
Try to do is, is have guests 

978
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,040
from with very different 
perspectives on. 

979
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:26,320
And I and I think probably two 
of the most diverse examples 

980
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,640
that I can give are, as we 
talked about Bruce Berkowitz, 

981
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:34,400
the Fairholme Fund that is now 
like, you know, 80% plus in 

982
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,920
Saint Joe, the real estate firm 
in Florida. 

983
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,560
And Matthew McLennan, who's on 
the other end of the spectrum, 

984
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,600
both value investors, but, and 
you know, both very much don't 

985
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,800
want to experience the permanent
impairment of capital. 

986
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:55,520
But Matt McLennan, who you know,
is, is running a, a $80 billion 

987
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,880
portfolio at First Eagle, their 
global value fund or their 

988
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,720
global international fund that 
has several 100 companies in it.

989
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:05,880
And you know, two very different
approaches. 

990
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,280
But let let me give you some 
sound bites from Bruce Berkowitz

991
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,800
of the Fairholme Fund and some 
of the lessons that he's learned

992
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,280
and I that he I am more hesitant
to deal with highly regulated 

993
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,880
businesses where one civil 
servant can decide whether a 

994
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,960
very large company lives or dies
based upon a perception of 

995
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,360
social good and without any 
respect for the owners. 

996
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:32,760
So Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, 
he, he fought a long fight to 

997
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,480
try to get the private 
shareholders or the public 

998
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,880
shareholders recognized and have
ownership again in Freddie and 

999
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:46,040
Fannie and has failed so far. 
But Fannie and Freddie are 

1000
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,400
making a ton of money, but the 
government owns them and the 

1001
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,200
shareholders were basically cut 
out of, of that success story. 

1002
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,560
One of the reasons that he 
invested them in the 1st place. 

1003
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,840
And then the other one was that 
what he learned through his 

1004
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,640
experience at Sears, which was a
bruising experience as you know,

1005
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:08,320
as an investor in Sears, is that
that he decided that if he was 

1006
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,360
going to take a big position in 
a company ever again, that he 

1007
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,840
would have ownership. 
So that he was in a position to 

1008
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,680
really dictate what the policies
and the strategies of the 

1009
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,480
companies would be. 
And Saint Joe is a perfect 

1010
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,520
example of that where he's now 
chairman of the board, largest 

1011
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,280
shareholder. 
And so that those were kind of a

1012
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,280
couple of lessons that I thought
were worth sharing. 

1013
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,480
And with Matt McLennan, who has 
a, a, a terrific track where he 

1014
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,080
runs a balanced fund. 
It's not, you know, pure stocks 

1015
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,640
at all like Bruce's, but the 
first Eagle funds are, are, you 

1016
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,280
know, broadly diversified. 
They're value oriented. 

1017
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:50,680
They always have a 10% stake at 
least in gold as kind of ballast

1018
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,120
for the portfolio as he, as he 
explains it. 

1019
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,440
But they're looking for 
resilient companies that that 

1020
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,160
will are, you know, good will 
produce results for the long 

1021
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,640
term. 
And one of the said the things 

1022
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,000
that he said recently was in a 
world that's uncertain, you have

1023
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,120
to be willing to invest in a 
range of different business 

1024
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:10,880
opportunities at regional 
prices. 

1025
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,400
We don't tend to get too carried
away with anyone investment and 

1026
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,480
that's been part of the reason 
we've been provided an element 

1027
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,080
of resilience over the long 
term. 

1028
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:23,920
So he's been broad based 
portfolio, 2 very different 

1029
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,000
approaches that have done very 
well for shareholders over the 

1030
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,120
years. 
Yeah. 

1031
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,200
Do you have any views on, I 
mean, well, the question that 

1032
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,760
you ask is one investment for a 
well diversified portfolio. 

1033
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,200
So I suspect you lean towards 
diversification. 

1034
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,000
Yeah. 
Yes. 

1035
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,560
So the the set up with that is 
that we have these portfolio 

1036
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,760
managers on who are managing 
portfolios. 

1037
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,880
So it's like picking your 
favorite child, but you know, 

1038
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,200
just, you know, one, if you were
to could just, you know, put one

1039
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,200
stock that we should add to a 
diversified portfolio, what 

1040
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,440
would it be? 
And so those are the ideas that 

1041
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,000
we get, you know, from them. 
Yeah, Well, I, I only ask 

1042
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,360
because there is a school of 
thought that says put all your 

1043
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,800
eggs in one basket and watch 
that basket closely. 

1044
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,720
And then there's a school of 
thought that that says 

1045
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,600
diversification is the way to to
survive, right. 

1046
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,920
So. 
Well, there's room for both. 

1047
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,600
Curious, all these interviews, 
all these great people that 

1048
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,760
you've interviewed. 
I I wonder how that's changed 

1049
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:31,000
your opinion or evolved your 
thinking on that if it has. 

1050
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,600
Right. 
There's room for both and I 

1051
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,480
think that everyone should have 
a very, you know, a broadly 

1052
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,360
diversified portfolio and 
therefore there is room for a 

1053
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,560
Bruce Berkowitz for one portion 
of your portfolio and maybe a 

1054
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:46,760
core. 
And no, Morningstar is called 

1055
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,160
the first single global fund, 
you know, kind of one of the top

1056
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,280
kind of all in one portfolios 
because they invest across, you 

1057
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,640
know, different asset classes. 
I mean, they do stocks and 

1058
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,760
bonds, they do international 
domestic. 

1059
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,120
And so it's kind of a core 
holding. 

1060
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,720
You want something like a first 
yield fund. 

1061
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,680
And and I'm again, I'm not 
making a recommendation, but 

1062
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:10,600
these are the kind of guests 
that we have on. 

1063
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,200
And what I've learned over the 
years is that that you do need 

1064
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,000
to be broadly diversified and 
that that there's room for 

1065
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,120
multiple money managers and 
there's room for having an index

1066
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,720
fund too. 
Yep. 

1067
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,200
To participate. 
It, it was my own stupidity, but

1068
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,120
for a while I was not able to 
hold both thoughts in my head. 

1069
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,280
But thankfully I was younger 
and, and had a lot less back 

1070
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,280
then. 
But you know, I, I, I kinda, I 

1071
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,280
mean, you know, concentration, 
you can get risk rich, right? 

1072
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,440
But you also can lose everything
or or maybe not everything, but 

1073
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,760
a lot. 
So the volatility is tough to 

1074
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,320
stomach. 
Yeah. 

1075
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,040
So where are the customers 
yachts? 

1076
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,120
So, right, yeah, that's that's 
why I think it's great to have 

1077
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,240
the concentration again in a in 
a portion of your portfolio with

1078
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,160
managers that that run their 
portfolios that way. 

1079
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,680
Yeah, diversified concentration 
slightly. 

1080
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,560
Yeah, I agree. 
Diversified, right? 

1081
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,200
Yeah, with diversification, with
concentration. 

1082
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,360
Yes, it makes this makes sense 
to me. 

1083
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:10,360
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1084
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,000
Well, I get it. 
Yeah. 

1085
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,160
I don't know. 
I wanna talk to you Bor, but I 

1086
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:19,000
don't know what to talk about. 
This is how it how it goes. 

1087
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,840
I I you know, I was gonna ask 
you for a book recommendation, 

1088
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:24,960
but I don't know about a book 
recommendation. 

1089
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,120
How long are you gonna do? 
Well, track what's what's going 

1090
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,440
on in no. 
So, you know, I mean, ask, you 

1091
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,400
know, ask Warren Buffett when 
he's gonna retire and, and you 

1092
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,240
know, ask Charlie Munger when he
was gonna retire and Dan 

1093
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,200
Fawcett, Lewis Sales, who's 
still, you know, and his 19 is 

1094
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,120
still working. 
And, you know, there, I think 

1095
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,080
Charlie Ellis, who wrote what, 
what a book that I would 

1096
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,560
recommend winning the Loser's 
Game is in his 80s. 

1097
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,960
And he said this is one of the 
wonderful things about this 

1098
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,440
business is that, you know, you 
are, you're constantly learning.

1099
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,760
The environment is constantly 
changing and you meet some 

1100
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,800
really neat people along the 
way. 

1101
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,880
And, and you can keep, you know,
doing it for as long as you've 

1102
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,040
got an audience. 
That so I, I mean, I love what 

1103
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:09,960
I'm doing. 
I I heard. 

1104
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,600
You know, in in one of your 
podcasts that you know, you say 

1105
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:18,320
you can't imagine going on the 
golf course and just retiring 

1106
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:23,480
would be devastating to me. 
I would shrivel up and. 

1107
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,680
You. 
Know intellectually and I I 

1108
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,800
really the metal challenge and 
having deadlines is is really 

1109
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,440
good for me and it and I and I 
get a tremendous amount of 

1110
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,360
energy from other people. 
That's where I get my 

1111
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,720
stimulation and energy is from 
talking to really smart people. 

1112
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:40,840
That makes sense. 
So you're, you're like an 

1113
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,280
extrovert with the big time 
interest in the markets that 

1114
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,160
enjoys talk. 
Yes, All right. 

1115
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,080
And big time interest in helping
individuals build wealth over 

1116
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,040
the long term. 
I mean, that's, that's the 

1117
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,560
motivating factor. 
And and I think we've really, I 

1118
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,160
think our through our guests, I 
think our guests have helped our

1119
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,160
audience do that over the years.
And we've certainly had some 

1120
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,400
terrific feedback from our 
audience from all walks of life.

1121
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,120
It's really great on the, on the
subway, the one of the 

1122
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,240
conductors will come up to me in
New York City and say, you know,

1123
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,040
I watch your program and it's 
really helped me. 

1124
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:19,680
And you know, I, I started a 529
program for my grandchild or 

1125
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,600
we've I've gotten a lot of 
terrific feedback and, and from 

1126
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,560
a lot of women, especially who 
are tend to be ignored in by 

1127
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,080
Wall Street, even though that's 
becoming less the case now. 

1128
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:37,240
Well, as as one audience member 
who is very grateful to have 

1129
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,600
gotten to interview you, I will 
say that, you know, they, they 

1130
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,680
say don't meet your heroes. 
I would, I'm gonna put you up as

1131
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,560
the counter to that because the 
way that you speak about what 

1132
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,960
you do and how apparent it is 
that you care about the right 

1133
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,960
things. 
I I'm really happy that you 

1134
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,760
found this calling and I hope 
you get to do it as long as you 

1135
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,440
want to and someday I'd love to 
meet and do this in person 

1136
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,280
because that. 
'D be great, I would love. 

1137
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,360
To do like a genuinely good 
person, I think, and I think we 

1138
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,600
got a lot in common, so it'd be 
nice. 

1139
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,160
I know, Bill, thanks so much and
I'm I'm so glad that I was 

1140
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,880
introduced to you by by Hannah 
Nadler. 

1141
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:19,120
So this is terrific and I'm you 
have just gained another podcast

1142
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:20,720
viewer. 
Well, thank you. 

1143
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,280
Consuela Mac. 
So I I really appreciate the 

1144
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:24,480
opportunity. 
You know what? 

1145
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:25,200
I love it. 
Is great. 

1146
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,280
We're so lucky. 
You know, what I loved about 

1147
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:31,800
Heta's interview was when she 
went into, she said that like 

1148
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,560
growing up as poor as she did 
was a gift. 

1149
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,480
And, and I was, I thought that 
was like one of the best parts 

1150
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:44,360
of the entire podcast because it
really shook me and, and, and 

1151
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,800
forced me to listen And who, who
she is, is she's an incredible 

1152
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,680
person. 
Oh, she's an amazing person. 

1153
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,680
She really is. 
And just so enthusiastic and so 

1154
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,560
smart. 
Yeah, she really is. 

1155
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,480
And and I think she also said 
something about, you know, you 

1156
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,480
deal with the reality that 
you're given and it's you don't 

1157
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,880
decide whether if you're in high
school, you know, Gee, do I 

1158
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,320
really want a job? 
Well, she had to work and she 

1159
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:11,000
said so. 
Sure. 

1160
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,320
So she'll, you know, she'll 
enjoy work, she'll be happy 

1161
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,280
about it. 
And that's that's kind of my 

1162
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,560
attitude about life too. 
You have a choice when you get 

1163
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,280
up in the morning or you're 
going to be miserable or you're 

1164
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,960
going to be happy. 
And it's being happy and 

1165
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,720
optimistic. 
Is a is a a much better choice, 

1166
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:31,000
much more fun and enjoyable than
the alternative? 

1167
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,920
That is 100% true. 
I cannot let you leave without 

1168
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:40,120
asking you one investment for 
diversified portfolio. 

1169
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,720
What would you recommend? 
Well, I do. 

1170
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:44,440
You think I'm gonna give you 
one? 

1171
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,160
I would hope so you you have 
enough to. 

1172
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,840
Pick from but I you know, I I 
don't give investment advice 

1173
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,360
either, but my guess certainly 
do. 

1174
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,240
Fair enough. 
Listen to Weltrack to get them 

1175
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,480
weekly. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1176
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:01,360
That's right. 
My one investment is to is 

1177
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,040
invest and stay invested because
it works out in the long term. 

1178
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,120
That's a pretty good one. 
All right. 

1179
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:08,480
Well, thank you so much for 
joining me. 

1180
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,880
Thanks, Bill. 
I hope you enjoyed it and I 

1181
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:11,600
certainly. 
Did I? 

1182
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,520
Did I? 
Did too all right, have a great 

1183
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:15,280
one. 
Take care. 

1184
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:16,000
Thanks. 
Bye. 

1185
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:16,640
Bye. 
You too. 

1186
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:17,040
Bye. 
Bye.