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You're listening to episode 317 
of the Marathon Running Podcast.

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Today we're going to talk about 
a bicarb system that is supposed

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to regulate your lactic acid 
levels. 

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Welcome to the Marathon Running 
Podcast by Marathon Journal. 

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Join us every week for the 
insights and inspiration you 

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need to get from the starting 
line to the finish line and 

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beyond. 
Hey runners, and welcome to 

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episode 317. 
My name is Letty, my name is 

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Ryan, and we are back. 
And happy anniversary Ryan. 

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It is our 6th anniversary for 
this podcast. 

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Well, thank you. 
It's not our real anniversary. 

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No, so we're not really 
celebrating that. 

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Well, maybe we will a little 
bit. 

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You guys should check out our 
Instagram. 

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We are at running podcast where 
you may or may not see me 

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dumping a cake, a whole cake 
into Ryan's face. 

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Wait, what? 
And in light of the anniversary,

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you started a new podcast. 
Oh, it's not a new podcast. 

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It's a new segment addition to 
this podcast, OK. 

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It is called your story, your 
why. 

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And I guess you can guess what 
that is. 

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Tell about people's stories. 
Yes, exactly. 

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And we've. 
Alluded to that in the last 

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couple of episodes. 
It was inspired by us constantly

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turning away people that want to
share their stories because we 

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are super into science and 
training and data and I didn't 

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really know how to include this 
in episodes here. 

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I would always see a little bit 
of a dip because I feel like our

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listeners are very much into 
science. 

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So you wanted to separate it, so
you didn't. 

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You had the educational science 
stuff and then also the stuff 

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where people could talk about 
their experience with running 

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and and things like that. 
Exactly. 

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So we have a new segment coming 
up. 

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I'm not sure if I'm going to 
have it out the first one this 

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week or the next week, but it'll
be every Thursday. 

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We've already recorded about 14 
of them. 

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These are all runners from all 
walks of life sharing their 

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stories and their why they run. 
Super amazing. 

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And anyone that participates 
gets a little gift. 

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Yes, anyone that participates 
gets a little bracelet that Oh 

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my gosh, I designed and ordered.
It's a bracelet that says 

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remember your why. 
It's medical grade stainless 

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steel that is supposed to be on 
your wrist as a reminder while 

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you're running, sweat resistant 
and all that stuff. 

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It's white on black, so it's 
basically just black with white 

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carving and it's super cute. 
You liked it? 

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Yeah, I thought it was pretty 
nice actually. 

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But I think it's a good idea to 
give them a little gift for 

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telling, taking their time to 
tell their story. 

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Yes, a little. 
Token of our appreciation. 

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And I feel like this segment is 
going to be just as 

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inspirational as the training 
one because Ryan, there's so 

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only so much training we can do.
There's only so much data we can

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go by, but I feel like also in 
the end, it's the human stories 

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that inspire us. 
Some inspire us sometimes even 

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more. 
That's true. 

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But today's Monday, so let's go 
back to business. 

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Actually, one more quick thing 
before we help into the meat of 

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this podcast. 
We finally have our website up 

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for the run camp in Kenya. 
Yes, you guessed it, we are 

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going back to Kenya next year. 
Our dates for our trip are going

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to be March 1st through the 
10th. 

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This camp is literally for 
anyone of any capabilities. 

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Everybody gets their own pacer 
and we're going to have great 

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runs through forest, the typical
red clay dirt. 

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We're going to be on the track. 
We're going to do Kenyan fart 

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licks, etcetera, and we're also 
putting a lot of cultural 

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immersion into this trip. 
You're going to be visiting 

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schools, athletes, houses, 
etcetera. 

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It's going to be super fun. 
Again, check out our website 

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thatsruncampkenya.com. 
But let's get back to the 

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regular program. 
Today we're going to talk about 

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what we promised we would talk 
about. 

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We're going to dissect the 
bicarb system by Morton. 

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We talked about that in the 
previous podcast where we 

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analyzed what Sebastian Tsaoui, 
the marathoner who broke the two

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hour barrier and had the new 
world record we were talking 

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about. 
What he was. 

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Taking for his fueling and kind 
of going deeply into that and 

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also talked about the Morton 
bicarb system. 

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I just want to quickly mention 
that this episode is not 

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sponsored by Morton. 
We literally are just fans of 

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science and new innovations. 
And if there's any, anything 

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that explains why, what product 
is good, I will always and 

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forever hop into that and talk 
to the person in charge and read

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the data and all that. 
Yeah. 

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And so I was a little bit 
skeptical of it having much of 

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an effect on regulating your 
body's pH level or acid levels 

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because just because the body is
pretty good at regulating it 

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itself. 
But looking into it a little bit

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it does seem like you know if 
you do have enough bicarb in 

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your system it can help a bit 
and you can't absorb enough to 

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where it actually buffers your 
your body's pH so it helps it 

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regulate the Phi guess. 
Yes, and there's actual studies 

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out there for it. 
So that's why I guess we're 

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doing this episode. 
And yeah, I mean, I guess I want

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to just leave it at that. 
We are talking to Josh Rowe from

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Morton. 
Super nice guy. 

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He's a scientist for Morton and 
he literally took the time to 

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answer each single one of my 
very basic questions because I 

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want to just start with a base 
understanding of it and then 

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dive into something bigger. 
Also, if you're more of a visual

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person and you want to see us 
talk, this is also available as 

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a YouTube video. 
But I mean, we're not doing any 

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demonstrations or anything. 
It's. 

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Just to watch you talk. 
Yes. 

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Watch us talk. 
So you want to get. 

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Into it, sure. 
So without any further ado, I'm 

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now going to share my 
conversation with Josh Rowe. 

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All right, so I am on with Josh 
Rowe from Morton. 

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Josh, thank you so much for 
joining me today. 

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Thank you. 
No, it's an honor. 

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It's great to be on. 
Thank you. 

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We promised our listeners 
without knowing if we could make

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that connection, to talk to 
somebody from Morton. 

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Again, this podcast is not 
sponsored by Morton, but the 

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interesting new thing on the 
market is the Morton bicarb, 

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which we want to kind of dissect
and hop into the studies. 

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And also, well, I mean, I guess 
let's just start there. 

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Maybe Josh, introduce yourself 
and that our listeners know what

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you do and how you work with 
Martin. 

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Yeah. 
So my name's Joshua and I, I 

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work at more and I've been here 
now for for nearly five years 

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and I head of the sports tech 
department. 

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But I have kind of a relative 
like dual role where I do a lot 

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of product development both from
from a physical standpoint and 

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also from a digital standpoint. 
And then I work closely with 

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athletes, the likes of EC, 
Sebastian sowing, the 2 running 

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group and then a lot of kind of 
other kind of Kenyan groups. 

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And then yeah, European like 
M11. 

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So yeah, my kind of role very 
much is to work as closely with 

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the athletes, get an 
understanding of the training 

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environments and how we can 
potentially do kind of product 

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innovation and or yeah, how to 
kind of help improve or maximize

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the performance. 
Leverage. 

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So we are in good hands here to 
talk about this new bicarb 

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system, which it's something new
and I'm a huge fan of really 

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anything that we can do when we 
change our nutrition, like for 

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example, sublingual caffeine 
that exists in order to avoid 

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the gut. 
Now we have learned that with 

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consuming baking soda, you can't
really consume it because you 

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kind of get sick to your 
stomach. 

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Well, maybe tell us why there is
a need for the system in the 1st

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place and then we'll talk about 
how that is normally solved and 

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how you guys then stepped in and
solved it even more so. 

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Yeah. 
So your body has like a a 

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natural kind of buffering 
system. 

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So it produces like bicarbonate.
So you have bicarbonate in you 

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kind of bloodstream. 
So and that's there to kind of 

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help kind of like say stabilize 
the acid base balance of the 

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body. 
Again, typically you say when 

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you're working at a high 
intensity, working like 

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anaerobically, your body 
produces an increase in hydrogen

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ions, which then increases or 
reduces the the pH. 

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So it makes it acidic. 
And then that's kind of there's 

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a point where with the, the 
muscle in the blood kind of goes

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to acidic, it will then kind of 
like protect yourself and which 

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then kind of reduces the force 
output. 

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So it tends to be, I don't know 
if you see like commentators, 

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the last kind of 50 meters of an
800 meter race, they kind of 

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say, OK, they're swimming in 
lactate or the really that's 

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kind of way you feel like the 
body's kind of slowing down. 

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And that's most probably a 
likely production of an increase

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in hydrogen ions. 
So there's a great acidity about

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environment And what you can do 
is kind of by ingesting sodium 

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bicarbonate, it allows having 
ingesting exogenous sodium 

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bicarbonate, it increases the 
bicarbonate in the bloodstream, 

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which gives a greater potential 
to buffer the hydrogen ions. 

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So then allows the the say the 
athlete to continue exercise it 

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or producing a higher power 
output. 

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And because the say the hydrogen
has been buffered, so it kind of

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stabilizes the acid base 
balance. 

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Again, this is all not 
relatively new. 

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The original research was very 
done in like the 1980s. 

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So it's sodium bicarbonate as an
agogenic aid has been very much 

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a kind of relatively kind of 
well established. 

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But the issues really was how it
was administered and how you'd 

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be able to kind of get the 
athlete to ingest sodium 

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bicarbonate. 
And that's because because your 

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body produces sodium 
bicarbonate, you need to have or

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ingest a significant amount of 
exogenous by bicarbonate. 

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You get a significant shift in 
blood bicarbonate. 

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So then you get a performance 
benefit. 

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So you can't just have a small 
amount and the but the issue 

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with that is if you ingest a 
large amount of sub bicarbonate,

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because it's a buffer, it goes 
into the stomach, it needs to go

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into that environment. 
And because the stomach is 

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acidic, it will naturally start 
to buffer the stomach and it 

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creates a very volatile 
environment. 

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And then again, the stomach 
creating has a way of kind of 

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handling that it needs to kind 
of, yeah, exit either through, 

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through the colon, through 
diarrhea or through vomit. 

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And I think again, that's what 
it was almost as a an egg 

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Jedicate. 
It was, it was used maybe a 

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little bit more in the early 
2000s before. 

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But I think what a lot of 
athletes they realize is it was 

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because there was a bit of a 
paradox in the effect of the 

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product. 
Like yes, it could improve the 

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performance, but because of the 
negative GI issues it caused and

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because they were very severe 
and also kind of relatively 

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could cancel out the performance
benefits or the athletes there 

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was almost having a bit of a 
gamble with the performance. 

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And I think that's why so, so 
did bicarbonate kind of regulate

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itself where some people used 
it, but most people really 

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didn't. 
And I think that's kind of 

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really when Morton came into and
came into the fold in the early 

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kind of 2021-2022 when we 
started to develop the setting 

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bicarbonate, we realized that if
we could improve the delivery 

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and really try to minimize the 
GI issues and by improving the 

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efficiency and the delivery of 
the selling bicarbonate could be

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get purely performance benefits 
without the negative 

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associations. 
And yeah, we've been really 

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successful. 
It was a say from a product 

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development standpoint is an 
amazing product to kind of be 

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able to work on and the team did
an amazing job because what we 

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really saw is that because the 
the effects of traditionally 

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ingested sodium bicarbonate is 
so volatile just by 

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administering within the 
hydrogel technology, it was very

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even without taking the blood 
bicarbonate samples and looking 

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at the bicarbonate effect curve.
And what we saw there is that 

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the just from AGI perspective, 
they were very much reduced or 

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completely minimized. 
And I think that's yeah. 

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And that's kind of where we're 
at today where we buy carbon is 

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almost back on the agenda as an 
egg agenda, Cade. 

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I think it's very heavily talked
about. 

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People are relatively using a 
lot more than this because 

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00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,600
people feel a lot more confident
in using bicarbonate because 

229
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,720
they did not worry about the GI 
issues as such. 

230
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:51,960
Which is a, which is a huge 
point. 

231
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,320
So the studies have been around 
since the 80s and I guess I 

232
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,760
didn't realize how long ago, 
five years ago is when you guys 

233
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,880
first started experimenting with
that. 

234
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,600
So when we say sodium 
bicarbonate, can we call it 

235
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,520
baking soda? 
Yeah, Yeah, we can do. 

236
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,680
Yeah, just. 
For the of it, because I think 

237
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:12,160
that's something that we can all
picture. 

238
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,080
We all have it in our fridge to 
do whatever it does in the 

239
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,440
fridge. 
So how much baking soda would 

240
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,040
one have to consume in order to 
counteract what is going on in 

241
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,120
your blood? 
It read much depends on the body

242
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,640
weight. 
So to get an egogenic aid 

243
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,600
perspective or performance 
benefit they say from the 

244
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,800
research is a null .3G per 
kilogram of body weight. 

245
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:40,400
So that relatively is within 
anything from say 15 to 22g or 

246
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,320
even 25 grams if you kind of get
in close that and 85K kind of in

247
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,120
body weight. 
So when we, when you think about

248
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,040
it like it's quite a substantial
amount. 

249
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,360
And again, the two kind of more 
traditional ways of ingesting it

250
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,760
were either in capsule format or
within kind of powder kind of 

251
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,920
raw kind of baking soda, putting
that into a drink. 

252
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,040
And even without the minus kind 
of the GI effects, they were 

253
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,040
still not very kind of pleasant 
kind of interventions to take. 

254
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,680
Because if we look at the kind 
of the traditional kind of 

255
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:16,600
capsules, they tend to hell hold
maybe say a gram in weight of 

256
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,000
baking soda. 
So then on the lighter side, 

257
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,000
maybe an athlete wouldn't need 
to take maybe 15 capsules, even 

258
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,320
the heavier side, maybe anything
from 25 S doing that two hours 

259
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,520
before a race is not the most 
kind of pleasant kind of 

260
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,000
experience, even minus without 
the the GI issues that kind of 

261
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,480
would to potentially happen 
afterwards. 

262
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,960
And it's the same with the the 
kind of the powder. 

263
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:43,120
Add in 15 grams or 25 grams of 
baking soda to 500 milliliters 

264
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,560
of water thing ingesting it. 
I don't know if you've consumed 

265
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,280
it, but it's not the the most 
kind of pleasant things to to 

266
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,280
consume and ingest. 
And I think that's what was kind

267
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,000
of really interesting is that 
not just like we improve the 

268
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,200
like the delivery and reduce the
the GI issues. 

269
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,240
What we realize is like we also 
improved the administration of 

270
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,440
the and made it a lot more kind 
of comfortable. 

271
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,000
It's like it's still most 
probably is not a Michelin star 

272
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,400
kind of like meal or an 
experience as such, but it's a 

273
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,080
far better. 
And I think what we found is 

274
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,280
there were certain sports that 
were kind of using it quite 

275
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,920
heavily like still to like kind 
of pre like if you look at say 

276
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,520
like like rowing, cycling, they 
were still kind of heavily kind 

277
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,320
of adopting sodium bicarbonate 
use. 

278
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,440
And when we kind of gave them 
access to product in the early 

279
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,560
days, they were really, really 
excited because of not just the,

280
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,520
as you say, the, the reduced GI 
issues, but also the, the 

281
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,360
administration felt a lot more 
better, like it was a lot more 

282
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,360
comfortable experience. 
And I think that's again when we

283
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,720
come back to like say from track
and field, it was if people 

284
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,000
haven't ingested certain 
bicarbon, the traditional 

285
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,560
formats like in powder or in in 
capsules, it's a bit of a unique

286
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,960
experience. 
But I think if you've kind of 

287
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,560
experienced all free, they 
really realize like it's not 

288
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:04,800
it's more of a pleasant 
experience. 

289
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,640
Not just the the GI issues as 
such. 

290
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,080
Yeah, Yeah. 
I mean, the only reference I 

291
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,120
have with that is if you I've. 
I've made a cake before where I 

292
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,400
used a tablespoon instead of a 
teaspoon and it literally. 

293
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,440
Ruins the cake unless you're 
able to catch it before you bake

294
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,160
it and then just completely 
dilute it. 

295
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,520
It's very much a prominent 
taste, but not just the taste. 

296
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,600
Also. 
I mean, it's a running podcast. 

297
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,400
You burp and it has that. 
I mean it has a baking soda ish 

298
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,800
thing that it does that really 
nobody loves baking soda. 

299
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,920
No, no, no. 
And I think that's the you say 

300
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,000
from the burp and that's the, 
it's that interaction with the 

301
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,080
GI track and the the gastric 
environment, the gastric acid, 

302
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,040
the because of the the 
bicarbonate is buffering causes 

303
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,240
an increase in safety or two 
production, which then say your 

304
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,320
body tries to expel through 
through burping or the other 

305
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:54,760
way. 
Yeah. 

306
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,200
So before we talk about how you 
guys did the study, I would like

307
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,080
to know who this product would 
be ideal for. 

308
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,920
Obviously we're talking 
marathons here, but you're also 

309
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,520
alluding to track and field 
where you have that lactic acid.

310
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,360
A lot of runners do their long 
runs at an easy pace. 

311
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,640
Is this a product that you would
take when you're going for it 

312
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,640
during the race, or is this 
something that you should 

313
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,720
experiment with before the race?
Who's your ideal person and that

314
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,600
you know the people that are 
going to be listening to this 

315
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:29,840
are? 
Half marathoners and 

316
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,440
marathoners, yeah. 
OK. 

317
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,360
There's a lot to that question. 
I think as you say, like the 

318
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,520
traditional kind of format is 
very much around if you if we 

319
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,040
talk now like competition races,
it's the traditional kind of 

320
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,040
research is very much around 
that kind of like high and 

321
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,640
aerobic kind of like events that
you're working very closely via 

322
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,240
to Max and that's kind of where 
you get the say more than a 

323
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,400
significant performance benefit.
But then what we're seeing in in

324
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,440
recent years is that actually 
the, the use case is also like 

325
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,480
from Sony Bicam, it can be 
extended beyond getting close to

326
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:08,119
the hour to the two hour mark. 
And so like again, it rather, 

327
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,760
which is dependent on the level 
of the athlete and the kind of 

328
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,720
pace and the relative intensity 
they're working at. 

329
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,000
Then they read eugenic effects 
that they could potentially get 

330
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,480
from you having a say at the 
longer duration events. 

331
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,520
But there's also use cases of 
using sodium bicarbonate in 

332
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,319
training. 
There's just not if you say 

333
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,520
you're not using it, say from a 
racing perspective or sodium 

334
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,560
bicarbonate can do is allow you 
to kind of optimize your your 

335
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,320
training and you'd almost like 
think of it as like relative 

336
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,560
like there's like two ways of 
using it. 

337
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,520
You could back out if you've got
a really kind of you high 

338
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,920
quality session where you're 
really trying to kind of elect a

339
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,640
really kind of high training 
stimulus from a say higher 

340
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,120
anaerobic perspective, ingesting
somebody like the sodium 

341
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,520
bicarbonate or having a certain 
my carbon intervention. 

342
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,320
It almost allows you to kind of,
if you think of it as a car, as 

343
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,760
such a car might have a maximum 
Revs of, I don't know, 8000 and 

344
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,360
then with the ingestion, so by 
Cam it goes to maybe 14,000. 

345
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,400
So it gives you like a greater 
capacity to kind of enter that 

346
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,680
kind of red zone. 
So it means if you really want 

347
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,600
to kind of create a really high 
train training stimulus, it can 

348
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,800
be effective in that 
perspective. 

349
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,320
But then you've also got to just
be where in understanding that 

350
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,120
because you've created a greater
training stimulus and you've 

351
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,880
gone into that red zone for more
than the recovery and other 

352
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,480
things around it need to be 
relatively maybe adjusted. 

353
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,040
And then there's also the the UV
use case, which is say very much

354
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,720
common. 
But then at the minute, if we 

355
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,800
talk about like double 
threshold, kind of like 

356
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,800
training, it's quite common for 
a lot of athletes to consume the

357
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,280
same bicarbonate of in the for 
the first session of the day 

358
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,560
that allows them to read kind of
just because they're kind of the

359
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:56,960
environment is to kind of keep a
controlled lactate kind of 

360
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,600
environment. 
So bicarbonate helps kind of 

361
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,560
just mitigate or optimize that 
control. 

362
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,120
So it helps kind of say keep the
acid base balance more stable. 

363
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,920
And when we talk about the 
double threshold that kind of 

364
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,880
like training philosophy or that
model, it's all about kind of 

365
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,720
optimizing micro on dual kind of
production and by having 

366
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,920
regulated pH environment that 
allows to optimize that then 

367
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,720
then to kind of training 
stimulus again, it's not if 

368
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,480
you're going to use it in that 
circumstance, it's not about OK,

369
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,920
how I can now I've ingested 
certain bicarbonate, I can run 

370
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,960
quicker. 
It's more about it's allowing me

371
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,000
to kind of adapt and absorb that
training session more. 

372
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,000
So I think again, going back to 
your question, who's it for? 

373
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,360
It's for there's a very, what we
started to see now within the 

374
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,720
research and how athletes are 
start to implement it is if you 

375
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,440
implement certain bicarbonate 
quite strategically, both in 

376
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,320
training and racing, it really 
allows for potential. 

377
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,280
Like you said, was we discussed 
almost before the, the, the 

378
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,080
podcast that the whole idea of 
training is to kind of 

379
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,200
facilitate a compound effect. 
And by implementing certain 

380
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,320
bicarbonate strategically in 
your training, it just allows 

381
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,520
you to kind of grade that 
greater compound effect of your 

382
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,760
training. 
Have you seen any term side 

383
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,640
effects? 
And I mean this in a good way. 

384
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,520
For example, I'll use Botox as 
an analogy, right? 

385
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,560
If you inject Botox in your face
starting age 20, eventually 

386
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,040
you'll see more muscle atrophy 
happening because that person 

387
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,720
keeps doing it. 
Is there anything like that with

388
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,440
a good training where your body 
is used to kind of redlining and

389
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,800
then because it allows for it to
go there and then it just 

390
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,280
continues being there even 
though you might not use bicarb 

391
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,160
for every session? 
Think it's a really good point. 

392
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,680
And I think that's kind of where
we're at within the training. 

393
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,000
I mean within the research and 
kind of what we're trying to 

394
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,480
understand is like the the 
potential like long term 

395
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,520
effects. 
I think when we look at from a 

396
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,000
health and kind of like safety 
perspective, like we say, like 

397
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,960
we don't recommend junior 
athletes or anyone that's 

398
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,840
relative like save like pre 
adolescents or like say on the 

399
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,200
sixteens to really for them to 
kind of take these nutrition 

400
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,360
interventions into account. 
There's so much they can do to 

401
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:13,720
kind of optimize their 
performance. 

402
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,680
It's all about like during those
early years, it's like, how do 

403
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,040
you establish kind of the 
foundations? 

404
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,280
So it's like it's very much, I 
think certain bicarbonate use is

405
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,240
it's almost like it's those kind
of final like 1% in terms of the

406
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,040
like you're not going to run a 
great kind of say your optimum 

407
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,800
kind of 10K or marathon without 
having core nutrition or the 

408
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,680
core carbohydrate strategy in 
place before, like having a 

409
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,520
certain bicarbonate strategy in 
place. 

410
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,800
But I think that's kind of our 
approach when we kind of work 

411
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,840
with athlete to take, we don't 
just kind of add that on the end

412
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,080
and think it's OK, it's going 
to, it's going to get these 

413
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,880
performance benefits. 
You need to kind of allow the 

414
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,400
body or create the foundations 
first before you can yeah, 

415
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,280
before you add on kind of these 
other different kind of 

416
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,800
aggregate. 
And so that's kind of what we 

417
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,400
see. 
And then again, I know there's a

418
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,800
lot of kind of marks around, OK,
having these high injections of 

419
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,000
sodium, sodium, sorry, and large
amounts of, of sodium 

420
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,520
frequently, will that kind of 
relate to kind of a cardiac kind

421
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,120
of like diseases and things like
that or like high blood 

422
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,720
pressure? 
And again, when we look at the 

423
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,080
the research from that, like 
from a general population or 

424
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,240
someone who's kind of sedentary,
then yes, having a big dose of 

425
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,600
sodium bicarbonate is not 
recommended. 

426
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,880
But the grand scheme things most
probably those people won't be 

427
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,360
doing that kind of training that
where they're required to need 

428
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:39,760
such a product both in racing or
in training. 

429
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
And so when we give these kind 
of like recommendations out, 

430
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,440
it's, it's making sure like you 
see the right people using it. 

431
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,880
Like, and we, if we talk about 
say elites or sublets, if 

432
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,840
they're doing the level of 
training that the that's 

433
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,880
required to kind of be at that 
level, the training most days, 

434
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,120
maybe once or twice per day, 
relative kind of nutrition could

435
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,920
be pretty stable. 
Having these injections of say 

436
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,000
sodium bicarbonate throughout 
the throughout the week, the 

437
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,280
body will naturally dissipate 
the fruit sweat and so it won't 

438
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,560
really accumulate the the large 
kind of increase in sodium 

439
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,320
bicarbonate, the health risk 
would not. 

440
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,000
Be them, right? 
No, that makes a lot of sense. 

441
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,400
I mean, we looked at this too 
from a perspective of how much 

442
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,640
salt do you consume. 
Obviously, there is a standard 

443
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,400
of what everyone is supposed to 
take, but if you're an athlete 

444
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,200
and you're literally running and
sweating and if you're a salty 

445
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,760
sweater, then all that doesn't 
apply to you just because it's a

446
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,640
number for general population. 
You are a runner. 

447
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,640
So it's a little bit different. 
So I understand that. 

448
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,040
Yeah. 
And I think that's again, there 

449
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,080
is like the sodium in there. 
So like from a say electrolyte 

450
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,480
perspective, like say from a war
retention that there's something

451
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,840
there. 
But again, from a sodium from 

452
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000
bio, it's purely for uses from a
performance perspective. 

453
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,360
So it's and again, it's for 
people that want to kind of 

454
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,440
utilize that both in race and 
training. 

455
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,200
They just need to make sure that
they understand how to do it 

456
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,840
strategically and to really get 
that the best benefits out of 

457
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,360
them. 
And also, like you say that it 

458
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:14,280
is still important to, to use it
in training, both just from from

459
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,760
a training stimulus perspective,
but also just getting aware of 

460
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760
the effects of certain 
bicarbonate. 

461
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,920
Some people respond relatively 
like different to it and they 

462
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,720
can maybe they feel it a little 
bit more. 

463
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,200
So like speaking to a lot of 
athletes, it's it's important, 

464
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040
especially like the track 
athletes because because you say

465
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,920
it sometimes removes that that 
limiter a little bit need to 

466
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,920
they're a lot of athletes. 
They go off that feeling of like

467
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,840
where, where, where they're red 
is. 

468
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,560
They need to almost have a new 
adjustment to that. 

469
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,560
So that's why using it in 
training is still really 

470
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,560
important because it gives you a
bit of a, you need to understand

471
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,240
kind of how it kind of works for
your body and how you maximize 

472
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,200
that feeling race day, right, 
right, right. 

473
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,200
So let's with that hop into the 
fun part, the studies that 

474
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,480
you've been doing since 2021, 
who were your subjects? 

475
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,360
How did you administer it to 
these athletes in the beginning 

476
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:10,760
and what did you guys learn as 
as the study evolved on how to? 

477
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,200
Create this product. 
Yeah. 

478
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,560
So I think the first kind of 
studies were very much like 

479
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:20,000
internal at Morton and like the 
the lights of Martin and our 

480
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,480
kind of head of chemistry 
formulation ahead of R&D at the 

481
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,000
time. 
And then Tobias Christensen, who

482
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,200
is head of nutrition, they did a
lot of kind of the in house work

483
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,160
on really testing themselves 
kind of how to optimize the, the

484
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,880
product itself in terms of the 
hydrogel and the MIC 

485
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,120
encapsulation. 
Really the that first early 

486
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,200
phase work was all about really 
establishing the pharma 

487
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,040
kinetics, understanding the 
sunny bicarbonate effect in the 

488
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,440
blood both at rest and during 
exercise. 

489
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,360
And then once they, they really 
had a good understanding and 

490
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,280
they not only just was the 
hydrogel helping kind of 

491
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,240
mitigate a lot of the GI issues,
but then also with the micro and

492
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,600
cap capsules, how they were 
delivering the the sodium 

493
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,680
bicarbonate inhale to get a 
better kind of uptake 

494
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,520
efficiency. 
Once they kind of established 

495
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,320
that, that's when they really 
started to kind of take it into 

496
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,920
the field and into the athletes.
And what's kind of really unique

497
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,440
and exciting and Morton is that 
our kind of entry into the 

498
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,000
athletes is very much the elite 
quite immediately. 

499
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,880
And we had quite a strong 
relationship with Jumbo of Visma

500
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,840
at the time. 
So they were very much one of 

501
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,120
the kind of the first kind of 
proteins that established and 

502
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,800
was using the products and they 
was kind of really, yeah, helps 

503
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,680
us kind of in that fairly early 
phase. 

504
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,360
Again, I think what we founded 
like all sports and really how 

505
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:42,200
it what happened to say with 
Morton in 2017, we've kind of 

506
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,000
like to keep show years. 
All athletes know each of us. 

507
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,880
So they all kind of talk. 
It was quite quickly it kind of 

508
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,480
got kind of there's a bit of a 
talk of the peloton of like, OK,

509
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,400
Jim of his mirror that they're 
taking this, this product. 

510
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,360
Don't really knew what it was at
the time. 

511
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:03,320
Oh, that's but it soon kind of 
came this like that this thing 

512
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,160
within the peloton. 
What was quite interesting is 

513
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,280
that we always knew cycling 
would be quite an early adopter.

514
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,920
They're very quite advanced, 
super keen to kind of explore 

515
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,440
and get any of the if there's 
any way to kind of get an extra 

516
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,480
walk, then they'll do it. 
And but what was quite from from

517
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,040
coming from athletics is it's 
still quite, I don't know, not 

518
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,160
old school, but traditional in 
the sense of like how it's kind 

519
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,960
of like structured and the as 
you say, when we talk about like

520
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,640
the shoe technology and they put
kind of regulations on them. 

521
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,280
And I think it was those all 
those are quite a bit of a slow 

522
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,160
adopt adoption to the shoe shoe 
technology to kind of like kind 

523
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,200
of split with some people who's 
like all for it. 

524
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,760
And then some people kind of 
yeah, then they like the kind of

525
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,640
the way it was kind of taken the
sport. 

526
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,840
And so we really thought like 
we'd have a situation like that 

527
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,440
where the adoption would be 
relatively quite like slow. 

528
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,480
But what was quite interesting 
is like as soon as we kind of 

529
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,200
start to test it with the 
athletes and some of the early 

530
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,920
first athletes was the likes of 
like Kelly Hodgkinson. 

531
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,800
And that really cemented, but 
not just at the times like she 

532
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,440
was running, but just also like 
the hair response and like how 

533
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,480
like her and the Trevor and 
Jenny that the team like how 

534
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,880
they perceive the effect it that
can it kind of spread a little 

535
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,000
bit like wildfire within track 
and field. 

536
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,760
So yeah, that's yeah, kind of 
how it very much started. 

537
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,520
It starts an internal product. 
We make sure the kids it meets 

538
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,320
our standards and and then once 
we're kind of met our internal 

539
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,280
standards, we get it all kind of
relatively kind of batch tested,

540
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,840
get our prototypes in place and 
really kind of release it to our

541
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,760
kind of community of athletes 
and to really start to test and 

542
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,880
give us feedback. 
Yeah, thank you for for 

543
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,280
explaining that. 
I always find it kind of 

544
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,400
interesting to see how that is 
done internally at first, you 

545
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,000
know, the people in the science 
lab being willing to try their 

546
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,800
own products and maybe go 
through some stomach aches to 

547
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,200
figure out what is going on. 
So that's really interesting. 

548
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,680
And then I also think the elite 
athletes are pretty brave trying

549
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,480
these things, although, you 
know, while it's just in 

550
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,480
training, it's. 
Still not a. 

551
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,400
Race, but just to give you guys 
feedback as well. 

552
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,440
So. 
So with that, where did it go 

553
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,440
from there? 
After the athletes. 

554
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,720
Adapted it, then they learned 
how to take it that they use it 

555
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,480
in their training. 
That's specifically talk about 

556
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160
two running club because you and
I talked about them earlier. 

557
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,440
That's Sebastian Sawy's camp 
that has a bunch of other high 

558
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,960
level athletes that frequently 
podium the world major 

559
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,520
marathons. 
Were they all using it in their 

560
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,680
training to kind of play with it
or are they using it on their 

561
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,240
fast sessions or how does that 
work? 

562
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,480
It's a combination. 
So as you say, the where we're 

563
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,680
at now is when we first kind of 
like launched the product, we 

564
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,160
was quite conservative. 
We made sure, although we had a 

565
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,360
lot of internal data and a lot 
of confidence in kind of the use

566
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,600
case, we really wanted to make 
sure as well, like the, the 

567
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,960
academic kind of like research 
was kind of catch up and helps 

568
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,080
what kind of like support some 
of the the internal research 

569
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,280
like we had. 
But again, that takes a long 

570
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,800
time. 
So we what we tried to do is 

571
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,320
when we're working with athletes
is they say, when you said about

572
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,600
how brave they are, is like we 
really make sure that we give 

573
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,760
them access to as much data as 
we have. 

574
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,920
So like we're not really forcing
or saying, OK, like this is the 

575
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,400
performance professor you get, 
it's like, OK, we just, we just 

576
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,960
show them like what we have and 
the likelihood of what could 

577
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,240
happen and from a performance 
perspective. 

578
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,720
And then it's really like 
working with them to kind of 

579
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,080
understand it. 
And again, we, there's a lot of 

580
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,760
both academic research and 
internal research we have on 

581
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,680
the, the traditional use cases 
of sodium bicarbonate. 

582
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,480
But what's been really exciting 
in these kind of last couple of 

583
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,680
years is that exploration in the
kind of long distances and the 

584
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,160
use cases and again, I think was
praised worth kind of 

585
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,360
referencing is one of the first 
athletes who we started his test

586
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,400
on the say the ultra long 
distances was killing John A and

587
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,440
he's a great athlete both from 
like a scientific perspective to

588
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,360
work. 
If he's he's has a really 

589
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,960
calibrated sense in terms of 
from his performance and he what

590
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,440
we knowing just we'd collected a
lot of kind of acid base balance

591
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,240
kind of like day and blood data 
during ultra endurance races. 

592
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,880
But we also got his kind of 
feedback and how he and he 

593
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,160
perceived the use of the 
product. 

594
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,960
And what he found is that when 
he used it because of the acid, 

595
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,920
it allowed his body to kind of 
keep the acid base balance more 

596
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,800
regulated. 
He felt better at the end of the

597
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,960
sessions. 
I mean are the end of the races 

598
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,680
all felt a lot more stronger and
he had more at the end than he 

599
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,800
than he previously. 
And I think what we found is and

600
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,040
what we're trying to kind of 
understand now is when we 

601
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,160
measure like lactate, it's very 
much like say, if you take it 

602
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,400
from the from the finger, from 
the ear, it's almost quite a 

603
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,400
whole like a global like some 
because you kind of measure in 

604
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,840
the lactate of the whole body. 
And sometimes you say when you 

605
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,760
measure in these kind of like 
ultra endurance events, like 

606
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,720
when it's really technical or 
they're kind of going downhill, 

607
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,200
they actually produce a 
significant amount of like 

608
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,040
lactate and latte can be quite 
high and locally into certain 

609
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,280
muscle groups. 
But then when you measure it 

610
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,240
from a whole global perspective 
from the body that kind of you 

611
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,840
don't get that significant shift
or the delta in the lactate. 

612
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,240
And again, that's what we're 
trying to kind of understand. 

613
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,640
But from what we, the feedback 
we got from Killian and from the

614
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,960
date is that because the 
bicarbonate was able to kind of 

615
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,400
buffer the the latte production 
more locally and helped kind of 

616
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,440
like stabilize, he had a better 
kind of acid base balance 

617
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,520
throughout the race. 
And again, that's kind of what 

618
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,000
we're now when we're not going 
back into say the marathon. 

619
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,840
This is what we're seeing from 
the athletes like using it 

620
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,000
during the kind of the long runs
or the right long kind of key 

621
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,000
sessions and not only just to 
kind of replicate what they're 

622
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,400
going to do on race day. 
But we know like you say, you've

623
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,880
run in Kenya, it's not flat, 
it's a, it's a they have 

624
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,000
challenging kind of like runs, 
especially when they do the 

625
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,680
3040K runs and the Bicam just 
allows that kind of 

626
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,280
stabilization of the acid base 
balance. 

627
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,400
So it just lets the kind of a 
response say to the hills a 

628
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,280
little bit more easier and kind 
of come in, Yeah, pre and poster

629
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,760
pros the hills. 
That's interesting. 

630
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,360
It's also very interesting to 
think about the location of 

631
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,520
where you're measuring the 
lactose. 

632
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,080
Like you can, you know, alcohol 
in his calves and see how it 

633
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,760
goes. 
No, again, that's as kind of the

634
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,760
something we're trying to, to 
really kind of establish how we 

635
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,760
can do it, especially from a 
lead perspective, like how can 

636
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,440
we do this without being too 
invasive like you say, from not 

637
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,000
taking a muscle biopsy or going 
to local. 

638
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,040
So yeah, that's the, we're still
kind of working on like 

639
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,280
protocols to establish that. 
But hopefully kind of in the the

640
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,920
next couple of years, we'll 
we'll have like more data to be 

641
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,600
able to, to showcase. 
Were you able to get Sebastian 

642
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,440
when he was done breaking? 
2 hours to take his blood after 

643
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,960
that to see how? 
How did you get more data for 

644
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,159
all of this? 
No, that's it's something we've 

645
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:12,840
always aimed or wanted to do. 
I think for Berlin or an event 

646
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,400
where we have a bit more a 
stronger kind of partnership 

647
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,360
might have had the opportunity, 
but for London and also just 

648
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,280
from the media and kind of the 
against open really once he kind

649
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,920
of run that time, it was almost 
a 2 hour period where he was 

650
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,639
like in contactable like he had 
so much. 

651
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,920
Yeah. 
Again, it's a bit although it'd 

652
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,920
be really nice to kind of get 
that data for how much you would

653
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,000
have hassle it have been and 
also like taken maybe Sebastian 

654
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,719
out at that moment and for us to
kind of get that data. 

655
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:42,920
It was not it would have been 
worth it. 

656
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,320
But hopefully at some point 
we'll be able to kind of, if we 

657
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,480
can't replicate it in training 
and we can able to get it from 

658
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,480
himself or other groups of 
athletes. 

659
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,560
Yeah. 
Yeah, No, that makes sense. 

660
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,040
Openings, the first ones there. 
Maybe next time just give them a

661
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,640
little sneak of a vial. 20 
bucks. 

662
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,280
I need an extra vial. 
There's one drip of blood. 

663
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,160
Yeah. 
That's awesome. 

664
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,800
So ever since you guys started, 
well, I mean I wasn't aware of 

665
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,280
the product honestly until the 
Expo of the Boston Marathon, 

666
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,080
didn't know there was something 
else going on. 

667
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,760
Shame on me. 
But ever since I've seen you 

668
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,720
guys pop up, now I have all 
these pop ups on my social media

669
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,200
accounts. 
And there's a lot of. 

670
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,480
Claims that other companies are 
selling the same product, which 

671
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,120
is really interesting. 
Everyone is now throwing around 

672
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,840
the word bicarb, so I was very 
curious about that and on one of

673
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:31,520
them. 
I. 

674
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,600
Don't know it was called freeze 
or something. 

675
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,640
I commented they were saying 
same thing just. 

676
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:41,800
Lower price, our servings are 
just $3 and then I had already 

677
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,200
informed. 
Myself a little bit more how you

678
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,120
guys administer it. 
So I kind of, you know, pushed 

679
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,960
the envelope a little bit and 
inquired how are you guys the 

680
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,720
same, IE is it going to be 
consumed or absorbed in the in 

681
00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:59,200
the intestines? 
Well, no, it's not. 

682
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,160
And then you know, So what do 
you guys are, what are you guys 

683
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,960
noticing from all that? 
That there's competition, or at 

684
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,600
least competition using that 
same verbiage claiming to have 

685
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,680
the same product. 
It's hard to, I don't want to 

686
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,720
do, I definitely never want to 
say speak badly of like other 

687
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:20,280
brands, but I think it really 
shows an issue within the kind 

688
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,920
of the whole kind of nutritional
space. 

689
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,600
And from a regulatory 
standpoint, like there isn't 

690
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,440
really that much regulations and
are really enforced. 

691
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,280
So it really allows for kind of 
a lot of like bad practices. 

692
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,040
But I think for me like 
personally, it's sometimes it's 

693
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,120
a little more upsetting in the 
sense of seeing how hard the R&D

694
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,000
team kind of go to go into kind 
of producing and making these 

695
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,560
kind of like products. 
It's not only just a costly like

696
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,680
endeavor, but like for more in 
terms of the investment they 

697
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,280
have, we have to like make into 
kind of doing that initial kind 

698
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,280
of innovation, but the team that
kind of goes to kind of do that 

699
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,040
the product development. 
And so then seeing kind of other

700
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,960
brands kind of, I don't know, 
tried to say almost I have that 

701
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,400
kind of Robin Hood approach 
that, OK, we have the same 

702
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,720
product and it's, it's cheaper 
and it's, it's again, I think 

703
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,400
for us, we see it as flattery. 
Like it's again like it shows 

704
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,040
we're doing something good in 
the space. 

705
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,280
Like we're, we're really are 
leading and we're developing 

706
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,920
products that would that 
actually are innovative and 

707
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:22,560
really pushing the boundaries of
performance. 

708
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,760
Again, if if we keep doing that,
then we're always going to get 

709
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,560
up these people copycatting and 
really trying to kind of show 

710
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,120
the leverage those against those
against them, which is again is 

711
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,360
always going to be the case. 
But I think for us is like, 

712
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,600
what's kind of comforting is 
that we have the science, we 

713
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,440
have the patents, we have like 
the technology. 

714
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,880
And for like more than that, we 
are very much like a research 

715
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,880
and company. 
We have really strong ethics. 

716
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,480
We'd never want to kind of like 
supply to our consumers. 

717
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,200
If you look at how we kind of 
communicate around our products,

718
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,680
we really make sure that 
everything's leveraged on facts 

719
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,200
and science. 
And I think for us, we want to 

720
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,440
be here in the next 100 years as
a company and be a company that 

721
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,600
will forge the nutritional space
to, to be better. 

722
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,560
And I think like you're always, 
we're always going to get those.

723
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,880
This company's kind of copying. 
And yeah, I think it's only 

724
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,440
shows that we're doing a good 
thing. 

725
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,280
Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with 
you and thanks for explaining 

726
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:21,920
that. 
I just thought it was almost to 

727
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,920
the point of slanderous, I 
guess. 

728
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,320
I'm glad I didn't say the name 
of it. 

729
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,160
I'll send it to you afterwards. 
But you know, to claim you have 

730
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,680
the same system and then the 
consumer is the one that will 

731
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,280
suffer from it, right? 
Because there's not enough 

732
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:39,160
knowledge out there or I guess 
there's not enough inquiry from 

733
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,600
us runners to figure out how 
this product really works. 

734
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,120
I think we put a lot of trust 
into these nutrition brands. 

735
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,440
When they say or when they have 
their claims, it's the same 

736
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,560
thing. 
To me, that means, OK, great, 

737
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,280
you figured it out as well and 
it's going to be the same 

738
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,920
system. 
But then just from my own 

739
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,640
understanding, I was curious and
wanting to clarify, is it really

740
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,360
the same way of this product 
even being absorbed And it's 

741
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,160
not. 
So then it's not the same 

742
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,760
system. 
And then if someone takes one 

743
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,960
product and it doesn't work, has
the other side effect, well, 

744
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,640
then they're going to be like, 
well, Martin is not going to 

745
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,880
work either because this is a 
system that is just not working 

746
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,640
for my gut. 
Yeah, no, honestly, it's it's a 

747
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,400
really good point. 
And I'd not sure which there's, 

748
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,720
there's a couple of companies, 
but we've done our own kind of 

749
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:28,400
like safe farm connected kind of
tests on the product to kind of 

750
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,400
see like because at the end of 
the day, if it's it infringes, 

751
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,400
if it really works, it fringes 
on the pattern. 

752
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,120
Then from a legal standpoint, 
the there is relative like 

753
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,160
issues there. 
But what we've rarely see is 

754
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,080
from a lot of the, the 
comparison of other brands as 

755
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,320
such that kind of a comers like 
the, they don't have the 

756
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,200
technology in place that kind of
really delivers the, the 

757
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,920
bicarbonate in the, in the way 
that we do it both from 

758
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:58,840
improving their kind of uptake 
efficiency, but then also 

759
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,600
reducing the GI perspective. 
See, like it's easy for me to 

760
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,640
say I work more, but it's 
looking at the from the data and

761
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,160
also from from an athlete's 
perspective, there's a lot more 

762
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,320
kind of security there like 
around our like our product. 

763
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,080
Again, I think this is going 
back to previous questions. 

764
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,560
This is where the issue is 
around from a regulatory 

765
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,000
standpoint, it really does allow
these kind of like bad players 

766
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,400
to kind of capitalize on. 
On these kind of on these kind 

767
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,120
of like situations because they 
they're easy to be able to kind 

768
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,560
of communicate. 
OK, I was we have the same 

769
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,560
product or same technologies 
it's just a lot cheaper. 

770
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,600
But you when you look under the 
hood and look at the ingredients

771
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,040
and how the the products kind of
functions and formulates it's 

772
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,400
it's very different. 
And again, I think again that's 

773
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,400
a challenge of in the nutrition 
space is that a lot of what's 

774
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,480
happening is happening internal.
So it's visually to be able to 

775
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,000
kind of see that is, is very 
difficult. 

776
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,720
Yes, when you kind of do a lot 
of it kind of like blood tests 

777
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:00,440
and things like that. 
But not everyone has access to 

778
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,800
kind of those kind of insights. 
So that if they want to kind of 

779
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,120
compare one part against 
another, it's very much just on 

780
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,560
either relative kind of taste or
function of the format of the 

781
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,800
product. 
And again, for for us, it's a, 

782
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,680
it's a child, it's a challenge. 
But the same time, I think our 

783
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,160
really our priority is to not 
really kind of get involved in 

784
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,840
those kind of those kind of 
discussions because I think a 

785
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,480
lot of the the brands they want 
is most probably to, I don't 

786
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,160
know, interact with them or it's
a, for us, it's like how can we 

787
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,360
kind of keep pushing for 
innovation and keep kind of 

788
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,480
developing the next product 
which that was probably like the

789
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,120
copy afterwards. 
So it's a that's our priority is

790
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,760
to kind of keep kind of 
innovating and keep kind of like

791
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,800
working and having that 
integrity and that safety with 

792
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,600
the athletes. 
And hopefully again that having 

793
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,840
that kind of transparency and 
that integrity they could like 

794
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,840
we hold long term, we'll kind of
seep through and show it will 

795
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,120
kind of ring true to the general
and the overall kind of 

796
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,800
consumer. 
But I think for us, unless like 

797
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,480
you say maybe regulatory 
standpoint kind of come in, we 

798
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,760
can't really do much. 
I think it's we just have to 

799
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,120
focus on ourselves. 
That's good. 

800
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,520
That's good. 
You guys are taking the High 

801
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,560
Road and it's apples and oranges
out there. 

802
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,320
And I guess my last question now
goes to if someone wants to try 

803
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,360
the bicarb, we talked about who 
it's for. 

804
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,720
We talked about everything 
except for how you take it. 

805
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:20,720
I think you touched on it a 
little bit that you have to 

806
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,520
consume this product prior to 
your running. 

807
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:24,520
Can you just? 
Give us a brief. 

808
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,440
Walkthrough of you get the 
product in the mail, what do you

809
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,280
do with it? 
Yeah. 

810
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,440
So what's really been nice and 
is like what we've like 

811
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,200
developed with the whole kind of
like the bicarb experiences, 

812
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,360
like both like a perching 
experience, but then also like a

813
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,400
use experience. 
And it's because again, it's 

814
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,280
still quite a technical and it's
a technical product. 

815
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,600
It's typically is very much used
for like nutritionists would 

816
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,880
kind of in do the intervention 
with the with the athletes. 

817
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,120
So what we've really tried to do
is make sure like it's as easy 

818
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,640
as possible for anyone to get 
access to it. 

819
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,840
So very much when you first go 
into morton.com onto the 

820
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:04,040
bicarbonate page, you input like
your kind of body weight, your 

821
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,360
general kind of experience with 
the product, like 30 

822
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,400
bicarbonate. 
And then we will then give you 

823
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,560
an appropriate dose to the 
product. 

824
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,000
You're then kind of like say if 
you purchase that product, 

825
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,240
you'll then get a dose. 
They kind of come in either 12 

826
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:21,440
grams, 15 grams, 1922 and and 25
grams, sorry. 

827
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,360
But then on the box before you'd
open it, it has AQR code, which 

828
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,440
is almost like a bit of a 
validation check. 

829
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,480
So you'd scan the QR code. 
You then input your weight and 

830
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,200
your experience again. 
It would then kind of reconfirm 

831
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,640
if you've got the the correct 
dose for yourself. 

832
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,160
If you haven't, you would then 
be able to kind of return the 

833
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,240
product and we get an 
appropriate dose. 

834
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:46,000
But then once you've you've, 
you've got the right dose for 

835
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,040
yourself, you would then we have
like a walkthrough kind of 

836
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,560
interactive website which allows
you to give you a step side, 

837
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,000
step by step guide in how to use
the product And in terms of like

838
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,240
how to open it, what contents it
has. 

839
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:02,120
And then how to kind of 
administer it and really go into

840
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,400
like really the basics of it is 
you when you ingest any 

841
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,520
bicarbonate, you need to allow 
the body to absorb the 

842
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,920
bicarbonate and there's a kind 
of an uptake kind of like 

843
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,480
window. 
So anything between kind of 90 

844
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,600
minutes to 2 hours, you need to 
kind of allow the body to kind 

845
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,960
of absorb the bicarbonate. 
But then once it's kind of been 

846
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,000
absorbed has kind of a, you'll 
get a kind of a peak 

847
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,680
bicarbonate, bicarbonate and 
then it will kind of degrade 

848
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,680
over time. 
And what's really nice is 

849
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,400
because we have a really 
controlled delivery of the 

850
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,400
bicarbonate and it means the 
kind of the uptake efficiency is

851
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,200
quite high. 
So it means that kind of 

852
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,040
degrade, the degradation of the 
from the peak is quite extended.

853
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,360
So the window depending on the 
dose you've taken can be 

854
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,720
anything from say 4 to 6 hours 
long. 

855
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,360
So it means, yeah, for the 
athlete, they can, they have a 

856
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,120
lot, quite a lot of like wiggle 
room depending on the event 

857
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,720
they're doing, if they want to 
take it exactly 2 hours before 

858
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,200
the start of the race or if they
want to take it three to four 

859
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,160
hours and they can do so. 
If we talk about Sebastian, just

860
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,320
how things aligned on the day in
terms of him kind of go into the

861
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,480
bus, he took it 3 hours before 
the start of the London Marathon

862
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:11,960
because we knew that was well 
established within the 

863
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,640
performance window of the 
bicarbonate effect. 

864
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,760
But in terms of if we go to the 
administration, it kind of comes

865
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,720
into kind of free components. 
You've got component A, which is

866
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:25,480
the the bowl, Component B, which
is the bicarbonate, I mean the 

867
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,200
hydrogel mix. 
And then component C is the 

868
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:34,000
micro tablets, sorry. 
And you add 200 milliliters to 

869
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,120
the bowl at the hydrogel mix. 
You'd kind of shake it for 30 

870
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,880
seconds. 
You'd when you're shaking it, 

871
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,000
you'd feel it go. 
It transitions from a liquid to 

872
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,400
almost like a semi solid, like a
like a gel like texture. 

873
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,240
Kind of you'll see that in your 
hands when you feel it, when 

874
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:53,800
you're shaking it kind of leave 
it for 5 minutes. 

875
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,360
And then you add in the the 
micro tablets and then you just 

876
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,000
consume the, the whole kind of 
like mixture. 

877
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,160
You just want to make sure you 
don't chew the the micro tablets

878
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,760
and you kind of just kind of 
swallow the the whole kind of 

879
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,400
mixture as a whole. 
And then after that, you're very

880
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,560
much good to go. 
I should have also highlighted 

881
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,520
that it's almost, it's important
as well to make sure you don't 

882
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,560
ingest the bicarbonate on a 
relatively empty stomach. 

883
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,360
So in the, the kind of the, the 
guide walkthrough, you can 

884
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,560
interact and it will show you 
based on when you want to start 

885
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:24,960
your race or the training 
session. 

886
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,200
It'll say when to administer the
bicarb, but also what kind of 

887
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,800
meal to timings to have the 
meal. 

888
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,880
So if you want to have a light 
snack, it'll say anything from 

889
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,480
60 to 30 minutes before if it's 
a larger meal, 2 hours before. 

890
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,680
So, So overall, I'd say the the 
best way is to yeah, is to use 

891
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,120
the kind of the step by step 
guide, the interactive tool that

892
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,400
we've produced with. 
It. 

893
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,120
Thank you for explaining that. 
Yeah. 

894
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,240
And then so the hydrogel with 
the tablets are the little 

895
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,080
pallets in it then attaches to 
whatever else is in your stomach

896
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,200
and allows for it to not be 
digested and go to your 

897
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,160
intestines. 
Yeah. 

898
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,360
So the whole idea is that from 
the concept is that the the 

899
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,760
micro tablets and they're 
designed to be a sermon diameter

900
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,000
that allows them to kind of pass
quite freely through the GI 

901
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,560
tract. 
So you have the the polyphonic 

902
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,320
sphincter, which is like the 
kind of the cap between the 

903
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,400
stomach and the small 
intestines. 

904
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,640
The the idea then is like you'd 
ingest the, the kind of the, the

905
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,600
hydrogel with the micro tablets 
once it enters the, the, the 

906
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,840
gastric environment of the 
stomach, because the, the 

907
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,160
hydrogels kind of create a 
protective layer around the 

908
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,800
micro tablets, It doesn't 
interact with that kind of like 

909
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,640
the acidic environment or the 
gastric acid. 

910
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,080
So it's not really doing any of 
that buffering. 

911
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,200
So it means the bicarbonate can 
transition from the stomach 

912
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,760
quite safely into the small 
intestines without having any 

913
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,360
exposure to the gastric 
environment. 

914
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,440
And then once it's in the small 
intestines, because of the 

915
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,840
fluctuation in pH change, the 
hydrogel will then like degrade,

916
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,920
which then kind of releases the 
micro tablets for absorption. 

917
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,200
So that's kind of how it works. 
And that's a again, the, the 

918
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,920
overall the hydro technology, 
how that's developed like it 

919
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,360
came from the medical industry 
in the news, it's all it's 

920
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,680
classes of drug delivery system.
That's kind of what we want to 

921
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,680
been able to do is able to 
harness that technology within a

922
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,960
sporting context and yeah, 
within from a Bicamet delivery 

923
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:22,920
perspective. 
Perfect. 

924
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,640
It all makes sense. 
I can't wait to try it. 

925
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,320
Josh, thank you so much for your
time. 

926
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,960
I really appreciate you taking 
the time to walk us through this

927
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,440
and also explaining a lot of, 
you know, the stuff behind the 

928
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:34,600
scenes. 
I appreciate it. 

929
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,200
Not a problem. 
No, thank you. 

930
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,160
It was a great questions and 
yeah, look forward to speaking 

931
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,240
again soon. 
Thank you. 

932
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:53,280
Thank you Josh for speaking with
me and demystifying this product

933
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,680
and everything that we needed to
know. 

934
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,080
I feel like we have a very clear
vision of who this is for, what 

935
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,160
this is, what it does, and all 
that stuff. 

936
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,640
We are also listing all the 
research papers and references 

937
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,240
in our show notes on on all 
platforms and hopefully that'll 

938
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:14,880
help you guys understand that. 
I mean, obviously this is not a 

939
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,160
magic pill you swallow. 
You still have to train, you 

940
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,960
still have to do everything 
else. 

941
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,360
But if you are there, why not do
something that can further 

942
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,680
enhance your running? 
Yeah. 

943
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,760
And I think it has to be 
relative to your level of 

944
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,440
training and stuff too. 
So I guess if you're at the 

945
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,920
higher end of your training or 
you're wanting that little 

946
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,440
advantage, then maybe it could 
help. 

947
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,480
Yep, and get those carbon plates
while you're at it too. 

948
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,880
Any other news for this week? 
No, except for if you want to 

949
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,040
read a couple of cool articles, 
you can help to 

950
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,880
marathonjournal.com. 
There was quite a lot happening 

951
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,000
last week and we were finally 
catching up. 

952
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,880
I know that Kip Chogi's wife ran
her first marathon and we posted

953
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,600
about that in the Journal and on
Instagram. 

954
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,360
And at the time of recording 
this, she will not have run the 

955
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,280
marathon yet because we're 
recording Friday. 

956
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,000
This episode comes out Monday. 
So we have no idea how she'll 

957
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,280
do. 
She's not in the elite field, so

958
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,920
she'll probably just be kind of 
in there somewhere. 

959
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,640
But I mean, I think it's 
exciting, Ryan, just having gone

960
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,920
to Kenya, I feel like Kenya is 
more focused on running for 

961
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,440
economic reasons and you don't 
see many just older people 

962
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,280
running for fun. 
Hopefully that'll also change 

963
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,560
amongst many of the things that 
keep Chogi is is trying to do. 

964
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,440
I think that would be cool. 
You say older people. 

965
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,200
How old is his wife though? 
Well, I mean older as in over 

966
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,320
over 35. 
Yeah. 

967
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,920
Do you know how old his wife is?
No, I don't know, but I know 

968
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,920
they've been together for 17 
years and they have teenage 

969
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,760
kids. 
So interesting. 

970
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,840
She is probably in her 30s. 
OK. 

971
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,760
Yeah, that's fun. 
I hope she enjoys it. 

972
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,760
I hope that they can run a 
marathon together. 

973
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,800
I know. 
I hope she inspires everyone 

974
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,720
around her with that, you know, 
just running without having to 

975
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:53,080
win it. 
I. 

976
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,520
Feel like sometimes someone that
has like an athlete significant 

977
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,560
other and dedicates so much of 
his time to that they might not 

978
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,600
want to participate in the same 
sport or they might kind of have

979
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,600
that guilt of not winning and so
not worthy enough to do it. 

980
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,680
But I'm glad that she's just 
doing it anyway, and probably 

981
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,040
doing it for fun, and that's 
awesome. 

982
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:13,760
Is that why you don't run 
marathons? 

983
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,040
No, not at. 
All but I'm not fast enough. 

984
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,880
No, it's mostly because we have 
kids. 

985
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,600
OK, All right, all right, so 
guys, stay tuned for that 

986
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,080
podcast. 
Hopefully it'll drop on 

987
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,000
Thursday, but highly likely 
it'll be not this Thursday, but 

988
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,960
in a couple weeks. 
Either way, we'll let you know. 

989
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,560
Follow us on Instagram. 
We're at running podcast, also 

990
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,800
at Marathon Journal under score.
Anything else from you, Ryan? 

991
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,280
Have a good week of running. 
You've been listening to the 

992
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,400
Marathon Running Podcast by 
Marathon Journal. 

993
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,200
If you've enjoyed the show, 
check us out at 

994
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,080
marathonjournal.com or follow us
on social media. 

995
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:47,680
Happy