1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,640 You're listening to episode 266 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,560 In this episode, we're going to talk about high mileage running. 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,400 This is the Marathon Running Podcast with Letty and Ryan. 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,079 Join us for weekly content on all things running and let us 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,800 take you from the starting line to the finish line and beyond. 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,840 Hey runners, and welcome to episode 266. 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,640 My name is Letty. My name is Ryan. 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,640 And we are here to bring you a controversial episode. 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,960 High mileage training has been proven to be successful, yet at 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,040 the same time, nowadays we see a lot of information or a lot of 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,920 coaches trying to persuade their runners to kind of go with lower 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,240 mileage more. I I think I want to say that 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,720 lower mileage seems to be a little bit more trendy these 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,160 days. Interesting, I remember seeing 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,480 the data that you showed before this. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,560 So that high high mileage definitely helps improve times, 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,280 but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the only way to 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:02,320 improve times. Yes. 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,200 And then obviously we always have to consider who we're 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,080 talking to, right? Because if you're trying to give 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,800 a Kenyan elite runner whose full profession is to be a runner a 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,600 low mileage plan, that doesn't make as much sense as you would 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,320 do that, for example, to somebody that works full time on 24 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,480 their feet all day long. Yeah, and there's also the 25 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,560 injury histories of everyone. And so somebody that may be more 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,160 prone to injury or had injuries in the past, you don't want them 27 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,440 to re injure themselves. Exactly. 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,920 Also age etcetera, but I guess we're going to hop into all of 29 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,080 that. So who are we talking to? 30 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,080 Yes, today we're talking to coach Hugo von de Brook, a 31 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,600 retired elite runner. He ran a 214 for his country, 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,680 the Netherlands, and he now lives in Kenya as a run coach 33 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,800 and also has a run camp. So I talked to him before in 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,440 previous episodes and he's very insightful and very data based 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,480 and very into science. So this was a very, very cool 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,480 conversation to have. So you want to get into it? 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,600 Sure. So without any further ado, I'm 38 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,240 now going to play my conversation with Coach Hugo. 39 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:10,400 All right, so I'm back on with Coach Hugo. 40 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,760 Hugo, thank you so much for joining me today for you another 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,920 podcast episode. Yeah, thank you for inviting me. 42 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,200 Happy to be here. Yeah, absolutely. 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,400 So today our topic is going to be high volume training. 44 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,000 But before we hop into that, maybe you can remind our 45 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,120 listeners how you became a running coach and what you're 46 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,280 doing right now. OK, yeah, so good one. 47 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,640 So I've been running since the age of 15. 48 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,880 So I think that's where it started, you know, just getting 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,480 interested in running and finding out that you're pretty 50 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,280 good in it. And then, yeah, it became my 51 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,440 passion. And then I studied human 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,320 movement sciences, which is kind of a perfect background for a 53 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,560 coach, but without the plan of being a coach ever. 54 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,680 I just liked the, you know, the study. 55 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,280 And I thought, oh, it's, it's it's fun, it's interesting. 56 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,640 But then at the end of my career, this was the end of 57 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:09,280 2014, so I was by the time I was 37 years old and you know, 58 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,640 getting some injuries and I wasn't running as fast as as I 59 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:17,040 were before. Like I used to run about two 60 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,120 hour 12 on the marathon and then some point it was going down to 61 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,880 two hour 14, two hour 15. So I started thinking about life 62 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,520 after running and I was lucky. I was approached by the people 63 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:34,640 behind the NN running team, and they started a team in India to 64 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,960 get away with an Indian company, and they asked me to be the 65 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,280 coach there. So yeah, two weeks later, I was 66 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,480 in Bhopal, a city in India, and standing in front of a group of 67 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,280 50 boys and girls. And I had to select the best of 68 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,600 them. And yeah, that's where my 69 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,560 coaching journey started. And yeah, so that's how it 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,960 started. And then after that, I started 71 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,040 coaching some Kenyans as well as student athletes. 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,520 Some of them are now in the US, are studying, Some of them are 73 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,320 done already. Some of them are still coming. 74 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,760 Actually, one of them got his visa just last week. 75 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,600 So yeah, that's also pretty exciting. 76 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,320 I like, you know, helping people in their life in that way. 77 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,600 And then I'm coaching runners online as well. 78 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,680 So lots of different things. And of course, people will come 79 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,040 to Kenya to train with our Kenya camp. 80 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,520 Yes, now you live in Kenya, you're married, you have kids 81 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,720 and that is your life. And it sounds fun and awesome 82 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,520 and you and I have talked about various topics in the past, but 83 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,960 one of the things that we wanted to talk about is high volume 84 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,280 coaching. I know that from a lot of the 85 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,240 elite running coaches, they say volume makes a huge difference. 86 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,360 But then over the past few years on social media, et cetera, 87 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,480 there's a lot of US based running coaches that say, hey, 88 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,800 you don't need to put in that many miles. 89 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,080 You can still do it by completing aged IIT training, 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,360 etcetera. But let's unwrap all of that 91 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,760 because obviously the concern with high volume code of high 92 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,120 volume miles is that you can get injured. 93 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,240 So maybe talk to me a little bit about your what you what you've 94 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,440 observed over the last few years with this new trend of running 95 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,160 less and still wanting to achieve the same thing in 96 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,800 essence. Well, yeah, that's a good, good 97 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,280 topic letting a good question it is. 98 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,480 It is definitely true that mileage matters. 99 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,280 Generally we we we know that aerobic volume, whether it's 100 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,080 running or cycling or on an elliptical, it helps to get 101 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,600 better to create a strong aerobic base. 102 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,120 And yeah, that's why of course you see that if you, if you look 103 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,440 at the elite runners, I mean, you're there's variation between 104 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,760 what people can handle, right? So some of them who are on 105 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,640 relatively low volume are running 100 miles a week and 106 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,560 some others are running 150 miles a week. 107 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,240 But you don't really get anyone reaching the international talk 108 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,640 or even the the the national talk normally on like 70 miles 109 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,440 or 60 miles a week, right? So that tells you that mileage 110 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,720 matters. But that being said, many people 111 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,240 are not elite and then don't have an intention of becoming 112 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:14,680 elite. And they have their constraints, 113 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,120 right? Because they have a family, they 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,240 have kids to take care of, They have jobs or studies. 115 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,360 And yeah, they are limited. They're just, you know, they 116 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,000 just don't have the time and they can't recover as much as 117 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,400 the elites. So then you have to find the 118 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,320 balance because like you said, it's true. 119 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,480 There's a risk of being injured. You know, I can. 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,680 I've coached so many runners, amateur runners who have a full 121 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,800 time job that they can't run more than 50 or 60 miles a week 122 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,360 most of the time because that's, yeah, they, they have to work so 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,680 much and you have other duties to do. 124 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,120 And then recovery is not the same as with elite runners who 125 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,640 have, you know, after a workout can go back to bed and, and 126 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,960 sleep and, and get a massage and all that. 127 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,640 So, yeah, you have to find the balance there. 128 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,640 I think that's that's the first thing I can say about that. 129 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,560 And so for the purpose of our conversation, let's define what 130 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,000 we call high volume here. I think you kind of alluded 131 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,360 6070. Well, yeah, if you talk about 132 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,480 elite runners, right, it's a different story from from 133 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:28,760 amateur runners. For me as a as a coach of both 134 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,880 elite and amateur runners, it's yeah, I use a different 135 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,680 standard, of course. So for me, for an amateur 136 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,760 runner, I would consider 60 to 70 miles pretty high mileage. 137 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,400 I don't know if you agree with that, but I feel like that's 138 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,440 yeah, that's that's for someone who has a full time job running 139 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,360 around 60 miles or close to 100 kilometers a week, I think 140 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,680 that's pretty high mileage. Of course, for an elite runner, 141 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,720 that's low mileage. But, you know, let's let's now 142 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,480 talk mostly about amateur runners because those are, you 143 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,200 know, our listeners, I think. So I think for an amateur runner 144 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:09,200 running around, yeah, 60 miles a week or doing about, that's how 145 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,640 much about, you know, 87 to 8 hours of running per week, 146 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,720 that's pretty high mileage. And then when you talk about 147 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:21,200 lower mileage, you talk maybe about, you know, 20 to 40 miles 148 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:26,320 a week, 20 to 30 maybe, and then with more intensity. 149 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,880 So yeah, I would say, I think the truth is that mileage still 150 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,480 matters also for amateur runners. 151 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,880 It's only that if if you are limited, so limited that you can 152 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,039 just do three sessions per week, right? 153 00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:42,720 So let's say you have time on a Tuesday, a Thursday and a 154 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,240 Saturday, that's all you can do. And maybe Tuesday you have an 155 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,800 hour, Thursday you have an hour, and then Saturday you have a bit 156 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,000 more time because you know, it's the weekend. 157 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,760 You, you, you can't make 60 miles a week. 158 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,160 That's just going to be impossible with that. 159 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,800 So then I can imagine as a coach, if I have an athlete who 160 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,480 is like that, who says, look, coach I have Tuesday, Thursday 161 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,880 and Saturday, that's when I can train, nothing else. 162 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,480 Yeah, I will say, OK, we can do some more quality, throw in some 163 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,080 more, you know, high intensity training, some more intervals 164 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,200 and still get the, you know, the best possible result within our 165 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:26,360 constraints. But that doesn't mean that that 166 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,960 method in, in general is still is, is is like better or equal 167 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:35,280 to running more miles, right. So you're, you're, you're kind 168 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,360 of, yeah, I don't know, in, in Holland, we say you're. 169 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,240 So it's like you're, you're in a boat and you have certain pedals 170 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,120 and you have to do it with what you have. 171 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,440 So you can't change that, right. So on the other hand, if, if 172 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,680 someone would come to me and says like, OK, I have, you know, 173 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:54,520 I can train every day, but I would actually prefer just to do 174 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,400 like 3 * a week high intensity training. 175 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,920 Yeah, because it saves me time. Can I get the same result as 176 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,960 when I would train 6 * a week? So more mileage and that's more 177 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,120 easy training. Then I would also be honest and 178 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:13,240 say, yeah, probably not, right? Because you are, you need a 179 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,840 certain amount of easy running to get the most benefit of your 180 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:24,080 higher intensity training. And yeah, this, you know, people 181 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,560 talk about HIT training, high intensity interval training. 182 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:30,440 That's kind of a modern word. But it's, people have been doing 183 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,040 interval sessions, of course, since the, I don't know, 1920s 184 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,800 or before that, right? Emil Satepeck was doing 50 * 400 185 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,760 meter stuff like that. So yeah, interval sessions are 186 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,840 not new. We, we, some coaches call it HIT 187 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,480 now, but yeah, basically any type of interval session can be, 188 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,880 can be called hit, right? So they are useful too, but they 189 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,960 are, there's nothing magic about them, right? 190 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:05,480 Doing 1 interval session per week and maybe 1 longer interval 191 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,640 or tempo session and one long run is, is still the best way to 192 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,280 go for most runners. And then you want to fill that 193 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,400 up with as much easy running as you can do. 194 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,040 That's basically the formula that still works for most 195 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,240 runners. Yeah. 196 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,400 And I don't know if you have heard about this, but there is 197 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:30,280 obviously with DNA testing now there is a website, I think it's 198 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,960 called Run dot or something like that where you can plug in your 199 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,400 raw data from your DNA, excuse me, from your DNA. 200 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:44,960 And with that, you, it tells you whether you are a person that 201 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,680 responds better to endurance or high intensity or speed. 202 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,440 Now, at the same time, I don't know how reliable this is, 203 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,160 right? Because DNA is usually, you 204 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,280 know, it works because it's traceable to certain regions. 205 00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:00,120 So I don't know enough about it to understand why certain DNA 206 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,480 strands will tell you which one you respond better to. 207 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:05,920 Have you heard anything about that? 208 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,000 Yeah, vaguely, but from what I heard about it also is that it's 209 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,560 not yet accurate enough. I think as coaches we we know 210 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,680 that there's difference between athletes, right? 211 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:23,320 So some athletes respond great to an increase in mileage and 212 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,920 other athletes don't or less to a lesser extent, right. 213 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,000 So yeah, that is true that that there are differences. 214 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,280 So generally we try to kind of distinguish a little bit between 215 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,680 more fast pitch runners and more slow pitch runners. 216 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,760 So slow pitch runners typically are runners who can handle more 217 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,960 mileage, recover quickly from, you know, doing an hour to hour 218 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,600 easy running. Whereas the fast switch runners 219 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,440 are people who find it much easier to do like a high 220 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,800 intensity session, a strength session, a fight like session 221 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,480 heel sprints. They recover quickly from that, 222 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,960 but they don't recover as quickly from doing easy mileage. 223 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,440 But yeah, that being said, you know, you even fast rich runners 224 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,560 nowadays want to run a marathon, right? 225 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,800 Or a half marathon. So you still have to prepare for 226 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,400 that, for that defence. So yeah, you need a combination. 227 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,080 It's it's and it's often the difference between fast rich and 228 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,800 slow twitch runners is not really that big that you say, 229 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,640 OK, for a fast rich runner, I'm just going to do like three hit 230 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,520 sessions per week and that's it. You know, mostly that still 231 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,280 doesn't work even for a fast rich runner. 232 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:43,800 It's just that they typically can't handle as much mileage as 233 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,440 easily as the slow twitch runner. 234 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,760 So you have to be a little bit careful with that. 235 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,240 And with the fastest runners also you sometimes it's harder 236 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,400 for them to do like for example a five mile or 10 mile tempo run 237 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,280 at a moderate pace. They find it easier to do 238 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,200 shorter intervals with very short recovery, like, you know, 239 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,360 2 minute reps with a 32nd break, for example, rather than like a 240 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,120 long tempo run where they can more easily kind of go over the 241 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,560 edge and and kind of kill themselves in training. 242 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,240 So yeah, there are differences between fastest and slow to each 243 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,000 runners, but not to that extent that you can say, OK, if if I do 244 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,960 adna test and it's just like I'm a fastest runner, I'm not going 245 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,520 to respond to mileage. So let's just stick to three 246 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,400 sessions a week of high intensity. 247 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,680 Basically that just doesn't really work, right? 248 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,000 To to to be able to handle that high intensity training and to 249 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,680 read for your body to respond well to that, you need a certain 250 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,560 amount of easy running to build an aerobic base. 251 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,880 That's still the truth for like 99% of runners. 252 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,520 So yeah, you still need a good mixture. 253 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,440 So like I said, it's mostly still like you do an interval 254 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,440 session once a week. Maybe you do a bit longer tempo, 255 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,000 whether it's like a non-stop tempo of five to 10 miles or 256 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,600 it's something like 5 by 6 to 7 minutes interval with A2 minute 257 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,920 recovery or something like that. Something like more at your 258 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,840 threshold and then you do a long run and then yeah, whether you 259 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,800 have time and you have the energy and you you can recover 260 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,200 from it, you can add more and more easy runs. 261 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,160 So that's still the method that you know works for for most 262 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,800 runners. Yeah, no, that makes sense. 263 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,720 Thanks for explaining it. And maybe we can nerd out a 264 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,560 little bit more on the primary physiological benefits that 265 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,880 somebody gets by just running volume. 266 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,080 If you could run as much volume as possible, obviously at a slow 267 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,280 pace to keep from getting injured, what is it that happens 268 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,240 to our bodies? Yeah. 269 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,040 So there's different adaptations, of course. 270 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,240 I think one of the first things that people notice when they 271 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,720 start running or cycling or, you know, cross training is that 272 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,920 your heart rate changes, right? So you're like resting heart 273 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,960 rate goes down because your heart grows a little bit so it 274 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,920 can pump more blood with each each beat, right. 275 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,160 So, yeah, that's one of the first things. 276 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,840 You know, there's other things that you don't really know that 277 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,520 they're happening, but we know them from science is that you 278 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,320 get a lot more mitochondria. So the mitochondria are those 279 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,280 kind of tiny kind of little fabrics in our muscle cell that 280 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:31,360 help us to yeah, that help you to produce AT PS or energy right 281 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,320 out of food. So they are extremely important 282 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,440 and the more mitochondria you have, the better you can respond 283 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,360 to harder workouts. Another thing that happens is 284 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,720 that what we call capularisation. 285 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,320 So capularisation is when you, your body kind of creates all 286 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,720 those tiny little blood vessels between the, the major blood 287 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,720 vessels. So yeah, rather than just having 288 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,880 a few highways in your muscles, you have like a lot of smaller 289 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,560 roads in between. So the, the, the, yeah, blood, 290 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,520 the energy that your body produces can reach the muscles 291 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,440 much better because yeah, they because of that capitalization, 292 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,319 it, it just comes everywhere and comes closer to where it's 293 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,079 needed basically. So I think those are the three 294 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,359 important things. You know, your heart, your, your 295 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:26,280 popularization or blood vessels, and then the mitochondria, of 296 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,360 course. So those things are important. 297 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:32,520 They are. And, and what we know is that 298 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,800 there's, we haven't found a limit yet to how much training 299 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,280 is enough, right? So we can't say like, OK, if 300 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,040 you're an elite runner and you're hunting 150 miles a week, 301 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,200 that's the absolute maximum. If you do more than that, it 302 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,480 becomes junk mileage. It's like it's useless. 303 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,640 No, it's, it's not like that. We that's why some elite 304 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,360 runners, you know, they feel like they can't handle more 305 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,120 running because of all the impact on their legs, but they 306 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:01,880 start to cycle or they start to do, you know, other forms of 307 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,680 cross training to bring their heart rate up and still have an 308 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,960 aerobic workout. So we still call it aerobic 309 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,520 mileage, right? Because aerobic mileage doesn't 310 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,600 have to be running mileage. So if you are one of those 311 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,000 runners who feels like, yeah, 3 or 4 times running per week is 312 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,920 the maximum you can handle, you might benefit from doing 30 to 313 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,960 60 minutes of cycling, right? Or standing on an elliptical, 314 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,040 because yeah, those are different ways of bringing your 315 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,240 heart rate up and still get an aerobic workout without the 316 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,880 impact that running has. Yeah, No, Thanks for explaining 317 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,920 that. That sounds amazing. 318 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,200 And if we don't have any time limitations and we just keep 319 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,560 running, what are some of the injuries that you see in runners 320 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,520 if they overdo it? In other words, what tends to 321 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:58,320 kind of give first? Yeah, to be honest, that depends 322 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,400 really on the person. So you have some people who just 323 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,000 generally get tired or especially people who are very 324 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,240 strong, right. If you if you you have a history 325 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,680 of doing lots of gym work or, you know, you just do enough 326 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,480 strength training, then you would likely to notice that you 327 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,200 just get tired. You know, you just in the 328 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,360 evening, you're sitting on the on on the couch and you just 329 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,880 feel like worn out. That's one of the first things 330 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:29,560 that people who are not likely to get injured notice that they 331 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,600 lose the appetite for training. So for me that's also that's 332 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,920 also a big sign when people are strong and they don't get 333 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,360 injured, but they just lose the appetite for training, they just 334 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,360 feel a little less happy. They just feel like they have 335 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,400 less energy. But then in terms of injuries, 336 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,840 of course there's it depends a bit. 337 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,320 Some people have knee injuries, others have chains, plains, 338 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,080 other have more like Achilles tendonitis or something. 339 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,680 So I can't really say there's one particular injury that tends 340 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,480 to happen more when you increase the mileage. 341 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:07,560 Yeah, that's it's really like where an individual's weakness 342 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,000 is, right. So, but it's good that you 343 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,080 mentioned that because like I said, you know, science hasn't 344 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:18,120 found like a maximum up to where like you should go when it comes 345 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,560 to mileage and when you go more than that like. 346 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,000 It doesn't become effective anymore. 347 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,400 But of course, every individual person has their their limit of 348 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,400 what they can handle. You know, when I was an elite 349 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:35,400 marathon runner myself for a long time, or I mean for maybe 350 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,760 two years or so, I couldn't really run more than 100 miles a 351 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,040 week because I got knee complaints every time that I had 352 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:46,360 a knee, knee issue. And then it was, I think it was 353 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:51,080 2004 when I ran my personal best, I was able to run about 20 354 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,280 miles a week on average during the maybe 10 to 12 weeks 355 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,240 marathon training. And at that time I was able to, 356 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,120 you know, stop the knee injury because of, I think I was as a 357 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,360 combination of strength training and supplement. 358 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:11,360 I think Contra 18 was it or there's something I think later 359 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,680 they actually proved that it doesn't work for for knee 360 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,600 injuries, but it seemed to work for me. 361 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,920 I forgot the name of it. Glucosamine. 362 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,160 Glucosamine. Have you heard of glucosamine? 363 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,400 Yes, yes, yes. They sell that at, yeah, most 364 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,960 big stores here for joint pain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 365 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,520 So I read some scientific research into it, and it says 366 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,240 like, it doesn't really work, but for me it worked. 367 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,560 So I started swallowing that during my marathon preparation. 368 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,800 And then combined that, we're doing certain specific strength 369 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,280 exercises. And then, yeah, I started to 370 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,920 handle more than 100 miles a week. 371 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,640 I could go up to 120. But like I said, for me, it was 372 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,440 the knee injury. For other people, it's killers 373 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,080 or it's, you know, yeah, something else, like shin 374 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,640 splints. Yeah, yeah. 375 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,600 I mean, yeah, I mean, as you said, every runner is different. 376 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,720 I just wanted to see, you know, the burnout. 377 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,480 That was great that you mentioned that because I can see 378 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,560 that happening when you're just doing it over and over again 379 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,640 without any kind of break mentally. 380 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,520 That's got to be hard too. But let me ask you a little bit 381 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,080 about strength training because as you know, I went to the elite 382 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,280 camp in Kenya to observe and I didn't observe a lot of strength 383 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,880 training. The coach there was aware that 384 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,000 now there's scientific knowledge that strength training can help 385 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,960 you. At the same time, he is coaching 386 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,840 the top athletes in the world and something is working, so he 387 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,920 doesn't want to mess with it. So he's trying to figure that 388 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,160 out. But I would like to hear your 389 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,680 thoughts on implementing strength training and how much 390 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,840 you would do of that when you are trying to train high volume. 391 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,840 Also, obviously I'm going to say this, and this is a little bit 392 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,640 controversial, but obviously if you weigh less, then you're 393 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,160 going to be faster, your VO2 Max is going to be higher, just, you 394 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,880 know, basic scientific stuff. And if you have a little bit 395 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,000 less muscle, then you are going to do better in long distance 396 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,480 running too. So let me hear your thoughts on 397 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,280 all of this. Yeah, Yeah. 398 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,640 Well, yeah, that's that's true. I know what you mean. 399 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,840 What is controversial because you don't want run us to, you 400 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,240 know, strive for being as as light as possible because 401 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,720 there's always, yeah, it's always a tricky thing. 402 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,600 Of course you can. It can turn into something more 403 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,560 dangerous, right? But yeah, I feel like strength 404 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,520 training is very, very important. 405 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,200 And especially for us, more like Western people who are, you 406 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,440 know, don't have such an active lifestyle as the Kenyans. 407 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,200 So it's true that many Kenyans don't do a lot of strength 408 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,840 training, but it's also true that most of them had an 409 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,800 extremely active childhood where they would jump a lot. 410 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,720 They would carry heavy weights. I mean, yeah, you've been to 411 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,200 Kenya. So, you know, probably how it 412 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,880 is. You know, you, you, you run in a 413 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,800 forest and you see girls and women carrying like, lots of 414 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,800 branches of trees on their back or lots of water. 415 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,880 People literally carry like 4050 lbs on their back and walk up a 416 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,520 hill with that, right? And then, yeah, don't do 417 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,080 strength training, but that's their life, right? 418 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,240 So if you do that in your childhood versus now a child in 419 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,200 the US or where I come from in the Netherlands, who might cycle 420 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,640 to school, but in many cases will be brought to school by a 421 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,520 car, sits in school and sometimes doesn't do a lot of 422 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,480 sports. When they start running or you 423 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,600 know, someone who has a full time job and sits behind the 424 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,920 desk the all day and they start running, they shouldn't look at 425 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,120 the canyons and say, oh, they don't do strength training, so I 426 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,960 shouldn't do it as well, right? Because those canyons, their, 427 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,800 their core muscles, their back muscles, their, you know, all 428 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,960 their muscles are so much better conditioned than than ours. 429 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:04,280 So I definitely see a big impact from strength training, and 430 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,320 especially that it makes runners more robust. 431 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,640 So someone who says, like, OK, I can't handle more than 30 miles 432 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,840 a week because then I get injured, then my first thing is, 433 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,760 OK, we're come to work on that. What kind of injuries do you 434 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,320 get? And we come to design A strength 435 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,960 training for that. But generally, you know, lifting 436 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,560 weights once or twice a week will be helpful. 437 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,320 And then another one or two sessions of just general 438 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,520 strength and conditioning. So yeah, that's normally my my 439 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,840 go to training when it comes to to many amateur runners, like 440 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040 once a week lifting and twice a week general strength and 441 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,840 conditioning to just make their body more robust. 442 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,520 I feel like that's that's very helpful. 443 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,680 And. What kind of exercises do you 444 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,400 prescribe to your athletes? Are you a proponent of heavy 445 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,520 lifting or more body weight stuff or functional stuff? 446 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,720 A combination. So I think heavy lifting is 447 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,960 definitely proven to be effective for most runners. 448 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,960 So of course, if not someone has never done it. 449 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,960 You don't immediately put them under a barbell and let them 450 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,120 lift very heavy. But it's definitely a goal for 451 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,640 me to get people in the gym and lifting weights. 452 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:21,120 Yes You know in my whole career I think I've as a coach then 453 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:26,080 I've had only 1 athlete, maybe 2 for heavy lifting didn't really 454 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,040 work. And those were a man with very, 455 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,720 like, big muscles, very strong muscles, very, you know, guys 456 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,520 who are just generally already very strong. 457 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,880 So probably there was not much added benefit to the strength 458 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,000 training. But yeah, generally I feel like 459 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:48,480 heavy lifting works. So we do two to four sets of 460 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,240 five to maybe maximum 8 repetitions. 461 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,880 And we do things like squats, dead lifts, cleans, Barbara 462 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,640 push, push press launches. Not everything at once in one 463 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,320 session, but like maybe 30 to 45 minutes of lifting with a lot of 464 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,840 recovery in between, of course. So yeah, you may do 4 exercises 465 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,520 and each exercise three to four sets and, and, and like I said, 466 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,880 just six to age repetitions or something, or 4 to age 467 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,600 repetitions. So not too much. 468 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,800 And then, yeah, we tried to build up the weight, so every 469 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,160 time when they feel like it's getting a bit comfortable, we 470 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,720 add some weight to it. OK. 471 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,440 Yeah, that's a tough one. And I was kind of laughing in 472 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,720 the beginning when you said that because I tried to implement 473 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,280 strength training into my routine and I don't have a lot 474 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,840 of experience and lifting. And literally the second my 475 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,320 husband, who was my spotter, walked out when I was trying to 476 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,720 do a deadlift, I pulled something in the back and there 477 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,240 goes my career as a strength training. 478 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,640 So it's, it didn't even have weight on it. 479 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:59,080 The bar, you know, it's just the techniques are so particular and 480 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,240 it's so easy to get injured. And so it's so easy not to do 481 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,200 that strength training. But I'm glad that you clarified 482 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,480 that that is something that we should strive towards. 483 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,680 Yeah, but it's, it's a, it's a very good point. 484 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,480 What you mentioned. I, you know, I've been doing 485 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,160 this since I was, I think I started strength training or 486 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,040 weightlifting when I was 16 or 17. 487 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,920 And of course the first one year or so, my coach was always there 488 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,080 and checking on the technique because that's really important. 489 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,640 You don't just go to a gym and start lifting A heavyweight 490 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,920 first. The technique has to be good. 491 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,880 Like the, the way you exercise, the movement, you know, the way 492 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,480 you do it has to be good. So you actually need someone 493 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,760 looking at you that can be a gym instructor and you can say, hey, 494 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,960 I'm just starting without anything, just making the 495 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,120 movement, you know, and then start to use a barbell without 496 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,080 any weight on it. But the barbell itself is 497 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,120 already 20 KG. So that's like what, 40, about 498 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,800 40 lbs. But yeah, you do have to build 499 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,320 it up for sure. And yeah, I, if I can make some 500 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,800 publicity for someone I'm using. So I'm actually using a program 501 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,120 from an American coach. He's called 502 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,520 jason.fitzgerald@strengthrunning.com and I feel like it's really 503 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,120 helpful for me. So if the people find that 504 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,600 interesting, I find it's, it's a very good way to get into it. 505 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,600 Yeah, he's he's just some something I started with about 506 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:26,400 six months ago or eight months ago just to get some more newer 507 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,600 exercises, you know, and I feel like it's, it's very helpful. 508 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,960 So, yeah, I, I do believe, and you mentioned the weight, of 509 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,440 course that's also an issue. You know, if like I'm 60 KG, 510 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,840 that's, I don't know exactly how many pounds it is, but I think 511 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,680 about 130. But if I, if I get a runner with 512 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,080 like 180 or 200 lbs, then I know that there's a big risk of knee 513 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,920 injuries and that I know they can't handle. 514 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,480 Like if they do 50 miles a week, that's like comparable with 80 515 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,040 miles for me, you know, because I'm a much lighter runner. 516 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,960 So the impact on my joints and my tendons is, is totally 517 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,600 different from the runner who is like, you know, 180 lbs, right. 518 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,520 So you do have to take that into account when you're a heavier 519 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,760 runner, you can't handle as much mileage. 520 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,040 And you may want to just out of prevention when I combine 521 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,000 running with cycling or with elliptical, you know, cross 522 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,320 training. Yeah. 523 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,320 And the more you run, if you depending on your body 524 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,680 composition, if if the 180 lbs is mostly muscles, then it might 525 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,080 be hard to get rid of. But if it's if you're just a 526 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,760 little bit overweight. And of course, doing more 527 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,960 running will make you lighter and that will also help you to 528 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,320 handle more mileage. Right, right. 529 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,560 No, that makes sense. And thank you for, you know, 530 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,440 pitching Jason Fitzgerald stuff. He's very interesting. 531 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,800 I like his stuff as well. Now when it comes to increasing 532 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,840 your mileage, you were already saying that one thing to 533 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,640 consider, obviously every person is different, is weight. 534 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,360 But if we were talking about the average runner that is not 535 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,600 overweight, that is in OK shape, that is starting, maybe it's 536 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,160 been running for a couple years and obviously you don't want to 537 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,080 do things too fast. But how do you increase the 538 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,200 mileage? Is there a method? 539 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,640 Because I know in the USA lot of people say don't increase your 540 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,080 mileage for more than 10%, which I'm not sure that rule makes a 541 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,280 lot of sense because if you're then at 80 miles, then you're 542 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,040 increasing 8 miles versus when you're running, you know, 10 543 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,240 miles, it's one mile. So what are your thoughts on 544 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,960 that? How do you safely do that? 545 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,680 Yeah, yeah, I don't really know where that 10% rule comes from. 546 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,600 I found it a little auto so. But you what I normally do is I 547 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,040 fluctuate the mileage. So I feel like that's the best 548 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,480 way, easiest way for people to go into new territory. 549 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,960 Because you know, when you, when you've ever done, for example, 550 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,800 60 miles in your life and you're now at 30 miles, it's much 551 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,760 easier to increase the miles up to, you know, to go back to what 552 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,560 you used to, to go back to 60. But let's say you're at 30 miles 553 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,120 a week or 20 miles a week and you just, you've done more, 554 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,200 that's where you are. And you try to increase from 555 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,440 there. So what I normally try to do is 556 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,800 just have one week of slightly more. 557 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,560 And yeah, how much would that be? 558 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,320 Maybe another, It would be rare for me to increase with more 559 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,960 than 6 kilometers or 4 miles in a week, right? 560 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,320 So maybe I would add another 3 to 4 miles in a week and then 561 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,480 have a lower week again, right? So if someone does maybe let's 562 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,080 say 30 miles a week, then we would put one week of like 33 or 563 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,240 34 miles, but then the next week would be again, maybe 25 or 26 564 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,120 miles, right? And then of course, I monitor 565 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,160 the athlete and athlete monitors her or himself, right? 566 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,960 So are there any complaints? Make sure there's enough like 567 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,440 easy runs where they can feel their body so that, you know, 568 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,880 sometimes there's a risk if you have too many workouts, then 569 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,160 people tend to be. So how do you say kind of worked 570 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,360 up to do the workout that you don't really notice any kind of 571 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,360 pain or or discomfort you may have. 572 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,840 But if you don't have an easy run, that's when you realize, 573 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,840 OK, actually my right leg doesn't feel OK. 574 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,680 Actually my, my left hip is a bit funny, right? 575 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,360 So yeah, then I know we have to be careful, but if yeah, if I 576 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,520 increase the mileage for three to four miles and then the next 577 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,640 week we do a bit less again and it feels all fine for someone, 578 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,720 then we increase a little bit more, right. 579 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:39,400 So, but yeah, we generally if someone has never done more than 580 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,760 for example, 30 miles in a week, we don't go to 50 or 60 miles 581 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,680 within one season, like within one year, right. 582 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,440 So I don't keep on increasing. We just, we go maybe from 30 to 583 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,920 34, then a week of 25 or 26 miles, then maybe a week of 36 584 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:01,360 or 37, another week of 25 or 30 miles and kind of exploring the 585 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,720 territory in that way. And then we stabilize at a 586 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,159 little bit higher, higher mileage without continuing to 587 00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:12,280 increase. OK, that makes a lot of sense. 588 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,800 Another question I had in in regards to increasing your 589 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,000 mileage was I I once had, well a good friend of mine who used to 590 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,560 be an elite runner. He used to run 2 nines in the 591 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,560 80s. He is now pretty much my 592 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:31,000 neighbor and close friend. And he would give me a plan and 593 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,560 I would follow it. And eventually after a couple 594 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,760 years, we started doing double runs. 595 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,679 And he was a huge fan of double runs. 596 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,320 In the mornings on Sundays, he would have me do a hard run of 597 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,280 16 miles. This is, you know, on peak 598 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,679 sessions before the marathon and then the evening, 55 easy miles, 599 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,880 something like that. So double runs in general, I had 600 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,159 a good experience with them. I know people hate them. 601 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,800 What are your thoughts on double runs and how far is too far to 602 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,240 spread them out? Like saying if you're training 603 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,960 for an ultra, for example, I've seen people run 20 miles on a 604 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,960 Saturday and 20 miles on a Sunday, and that's because in 605 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,120 the in the future they're going to run 100 mile or so. 606 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,520 What are your thoughts on double runs? 607 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:16,120 Right. Yeah, double miles can be a good 608 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,960 tool for sure if people can handle it. 609 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:24,040 So I, I've had some of my runners, of course, my obviously 610 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,360 elite runners all do double runs and amateur runners depending on 611 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,280 if they can handle it, if they have the time for it. 612 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,240 But yeah, some of those that I coached, they do that also. 613 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:39,200 We know that. So one interesting thing is that 614 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,200 if you if you're kind of tired from a previous session, so if 615 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,440 you trained in the morning and then you do another session in 616 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,680 the afternoon, your body produces apparently more of a 617 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,760 certain hormone called PTC 1A. And PTC 1A is quite important 618 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,720 for business runners because it's the hormone that stimulates 619 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,640 the production of mitochondria. So when we see that there's more 620 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,040 PGC 1A produced, you know, then as runners we should be happy 621 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,480 about that because that's. Yeah, that's going to help us to 622 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,240 be better runners. And especially doing two runs on 623 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,560 a day can be helpful in that way because you're basically doing 624 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,000 your second run when you're already tired from your first 625 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,920 run, right. So, but there's always, there 626 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,360 can be a trade off because doing a run when you're already tired 627 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,360 can also potentially impact your immune system a little bit. 628 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,920 Like you know, your glycogen levels are low, you're going to 629 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,840 do another run. So they will continue to be low 630 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,040 or maybe might be even a bit lower. 631 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,360 So, yeah, but we also know if your glycogen levels are low for 632 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,120 a considerable amount of time, then you're a little bit more 633 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,560 likely to catch a common cold or a flu or something like that. 634 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:02,120 So I would say runners can definitely try these things out, 635 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,320 but they should, on a day that they double, they have to take 636 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,360 care of themselves very much like, you know, eat good, drink 637 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:15,000 good, try to rest in between. Because if you just kind of have 638 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,600 to squeeze it in your day, then it's probably not the best thing 639 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,040 to do. OK. 640 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,080 And I guess along that line, what are some other strategies 641 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,320 that you give to your athletes to prevent overtraining and 642 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,080 injury when people are engaging in high volume, whether it be 643 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,760 with double runs or not? That's a good one, actually. 644 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,600 Yeah, I'm OK. When it comes to recovery, I 645 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,240 think a few things are important. 646 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,080 The first one is sleep, of course. 647 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,080 So I don't believe so much in like magic tools. 648 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,040 And I know there's lots of stuff on the market where they say, 649 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,120 OK, where are those kind of boots or where do you know to 650 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,600 create that extra recovery and all kind of supplements. 651 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,560 I think if you look at most elite runners, they're not big 652 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,440 into that. And you know, Kenyans definitely 653 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,800 are not. But I would say if I have to 654 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,520 pick like the four most important things to recover, 655 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:18,040 it's first of all sleep and secondly, having a proper diet, 656 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,640 like make sure you get enough carbohydrates and, and some 657 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,720 essential proteins. And you can do that generally 658 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:26,480 without supplements. You don't really need 659 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,080 supplements for that, but you can consider a protein 660 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,040 supplement on, on very heavy days. 661 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,160 And then yeah, the 3rd and 4th would be natural things like 662 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,600 spending time in nature and, you know, having people around you 663 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,200 to talk with. And I mean, we know that people 664 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,000 recover better when they hang out with others, when they 665 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,800 socialize compared with when they come to work or when they 666 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,360 come to be on their phones or, you know, are just going to be 667 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,480 busy. So I think those are, if you're, 668 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,680 when you are in Kenya, I think that's what you see, right? 669 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,600 People have finished their training. 670 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,120 First of all, they spend their whole day in nature because life 671 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,080 is in nature. They hang out with each other. 672 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,080 They have a cup of tea and it may look like, oh, they're not 673 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,920 doing anything scientific to recover, but we know from 674 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,480 science that the best ways to recover is spending time with 675 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,120 others, hanging out, socializing, spending time in 676 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,280 nature, right? So yeah, those make for optimal 677 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,080 recovery. I would not recommend an ice 678 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,760 bot. Generally ice bath or 679 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,600 cryotherapy is not going to help you to recover better, although 680 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,240 some people feel good about it. But what we know from science is 681 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:45,320 that it actually, you know, it can block your improvement 682 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520 because it takes away a part of the inflammation in your muscle. 683 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,360 And you need that inflammation actually to get stronger because 684 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,200 that's the stimulus your body needs to create improvement. 685 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,440 And apart from that, it restricts. 686 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,760 You know, certain amino acids coming to your muscles. 687 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,560 So I wouldn't recommend ice bath or cryotherapy. 688 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,080 Other things people can think about and what works for some 689 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,520 people is sauna. We do know that there can be a 690 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,400 positive effect from maybe two or three times a week using a 691 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,920 hot sauna. Your body actually produces a 692 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,400 little bit more. What's it called? 693 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,080 Human growth hormone, when you go to the sauna, hot sauna for 694 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,960 like 20 to 30 minutes. So that can be a positive thing 695 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,560 for your recovery. Yeah. 696 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,240 And massage can help. Personally, I always use a foam 697 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:44,520 roller once or twice a week. Other people prefer an actual 698 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,320 massage. Others, again, sorry, like 699 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,800 massage doesn't really work for them. 700 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,680 So I feel like that's a little bit personal. 701 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,360 And it depends maybe also on the type of massage you get. 702 00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:00,880 But yeah, those are typically things that I would recommend 703 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,920 when it comes to recovery, I think the most important is like 704 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,600 you finish the hard workout, the first two hours after that are 705 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,120 the most important, then you need rest and you need to eat 706 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,680 and drink, right? So if you skip that part, if 707 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,840 it's like you have a workout, you take a shower and you go to 708 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,720 your job, then it's going to be much harder to recover Then if 709 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:25,520 you have at least like 2 hours at home to relax and make sure 710 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,600 you eat enough and drink enough. I think that's that is the most 711 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,960 essential part. OK. 712 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,120 And I feel like you kind of hit the nail on the head for me on 713 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,960 that one because one of the first observations that I made 714 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,640 when I went to that training camp in Kenya is you have these 715 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,040 elite athletes that have been winning the major marathons and 716 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,720 they don't use those boots and they don't sit there and, you 717 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:48,440 know, shake up their protein shakes. 718 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,840 They literally just get done running. 719 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,520 They have their tea with milk and then they eat and then they 720 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,160 sleep. And that was kind of, you know, 721 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:03,120 an interesting insight to that in that industry that has grown 722 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,360 so much, right? Because running industry makes 723 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,840 billions of dollars on people like us that want the magic pill 724 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,000 to something or the magic protein shake or recovery drink 725 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,360 that's going to make us awesome. And in reality, the fastest 726 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,280 runners just do exactly what you said and there's not much else 727 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,000 to it. Yeah, that's true. 728 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,320 And it was the same for me and most elite runners that I knew 729 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,480 when I was an elite runner. There's not only Kenyans, it's 730 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,880 it's also many others. Of course, there's some 731 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,240 exceptions, but generally, generally elite runners keep it 732 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:39,280 simple, right? And of course, you know, if you 733 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,160 train very hard, sometimes you need a little bit extra, right? 734 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,880 So in my case, my iron levels tended to drop when I would 735 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,120 train very hard. So I often needed an iron 736 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,360 supplement to make sure my ferritin and hemoglobin were 737 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,840 staying at, you know, wouldn't get like insufficient. 738 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,080 And something like vitamin C is often used by people to make 739 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,400 sure that, you know, their immune system is like, at least 740 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:08,240 and that there's no, that they don't get, you know, too low in 741 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,840 debt. And for the rest, it depends on 742 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,560 the person. But yeah, I find it found it 743 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,480 interesting. You know, when I was in Kenya 744 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,880 and we were with lots of elite runners and there was actually 745 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,520 an amateur runner coming who was like a lot slower than us. 746 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,560 And and she came with all these doublets and pills and all 747 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:31,160 these, you know, cups and, you know, filled with stuff that you 748 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,360 would take. Like this is for Tuesday. 749 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,720 It's for Wednesday, then to get me ready for the session on 750 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:36,280 Wednesday. And then this is for Thursday 751 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,720 for recovery. And this is for Friday. 752 00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,160 And I was like, wow. You know, I think you can 753 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,880 actually learn more from the Kenyans by, you know, just 754 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,960 resting and sleeping and taking proper recovery then using so 755 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,040 much tablets. And I think, I think, yeah, many 756 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,760 athletes don't really do that. You know, you take what's needed 757 00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:01,120 because you are maybe, yeah, you do a blood test once in in three 758 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,160 to six months and you see if you have certain deficiencies and if 759 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,000 you have a deficiency, you you may need to supplement for 760 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,440 something. But other than that, you don't 761 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,920 just look for stuff, you know. And apart from that, as elite 762 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,240 runners, of course, you have to be careful not to take anything 763 00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:17,440 that is potentially doping, right? 764 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,000 And some products might be contaminated. 765 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,360 So you have to be. That's why you also have to be 766 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,040 careful with that. But I think the, the, the major 767 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,760 thing is that most elites understand what works and what 768 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,800 doesn't work, right? So they have the better 769 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,360 understanding. Like it's mostly about training 770 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,200 and resting, eating and sleeping good. 771 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,120 And like the Kenyans take their Chai, that's their protein 772 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,000 drink, right? Because there's milk in into 773 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,640 that. And yeah, then if they have the 774 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,120 money for it, they take meat in the evening or fish. 775 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:48,920 But sometimes they don't have much money. 776 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,240 And then the only proteins they take are beans and and a bit of 777 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:54,120 milk. But yeah. 778 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,680 Yeah, that nutrition was very sorry. 779 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,200 Yeah, the nutrition was very low fat, lots of vegetables. 780 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,880 Obviously ugali for the carbs is what they eat over there. 781 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,240 Which I guess brings me to my last question, which is a bonus 782 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:10,600 question. I'm going to call it a bonus 783 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,160 question because it's not really related to the topic of high 784 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,120 volume. But another observation that I 785 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,160 made while I was there was that they do their 21K in the 786 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,160 mornings, usually easy run if they don't have a workout. 787 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,440 So that's about 13 miles and when they do that, they go fast 788 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,560 it. And I know that's maybe another 789 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,000 thing or maybe not, but there are so many different opinions 790 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,840 and controversial opinions whether or not a person should 791 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,120 be running fast it in the mornings they do. 792 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:42,120 What are your thoughts on that? Yes, a good one. 793 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,760 I used to do still do most of my runs fast it and I think if you, 794 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:51,240 if you look at the science behind it, I would say it's, 795 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,320 it's as long as you can handle it. 796 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,440 It's it's good to try to do easy and moderate runs faster without 797 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,040 any breakfast before it. But when it comes to any quality 798 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,720 session, it doesn't make any sense, right? 799 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:09,080 So you don't want to do a real quality session. 800 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,040 So then I'm talking about running at your half marathon 801 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,840 pace or faster for most runners. If you know you have a session 802 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,280 like that, like a proper workout, you want to eat 803 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,520 something, right? So even if you have to do that 804 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,800 in the morning, let's say you're limited in time, I would say 805 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,000 definitely take a banana or something, put something in your 806 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,560 stomach. You need some carbs to get 807 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,040 better quality. So basically doing a session 808 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,120 like that without carbs in the morning make your body to use 809 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,040 much more fats, and that's just not as efficient. 810 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,640 It's carbs. So you definitely want to have 811 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,440 breakfast for that. But when it comes to easy and 812 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,040 moderate running, I think it can probably be beneficial to do 813 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:54,280 some of your runs fasted, yes. So I would definitely recommend 814 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,560 people try that out, yeah. What happens if you run your run 815 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:03,120 fasted to your body just? Well, yeah, yeah. 816 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,240 I would say the main thing, of course, is that you teach your 817 00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:10,800 body to run a little bit more on the fat burning. 818 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,960 So like the fat oxidation, you call it, right? 819 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,480 So your body uses fat as a fuel source. 820 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,760 And OK, still, whether your body uses fat or carbs depends mostly 821 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,400 on the speed you're running. So the faster you run, your body 822 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,720 will choose for carbs, right? But now that's why I say if 823 00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,080 you're going to run fast, like you're going to do a hill work 824 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,320 session or you come to do shorter intervals or any kind of 825 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,400 heat training, you need carbs because if you don't have the 826 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,840 carbs, your body wants to choose the carbs, but it counts really. 827 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,000 So it uses the fat, but that's not so effective. 828 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,200 But now when you run easy, your body normally has a mixture of 829 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,200 using carbs and using fat. And then it depends a little bit 830 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,480 on the what you ate or if you ate in the morning. 831 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,800 So if you didn't eat, your body will use a little higher 832 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,000 percentage of fat compared with carbs. 833 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,840 Whereas if you did, if you do eat just before your training, 834 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,240 your body tends to say like, hey, there's lots of carbs now 835 00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:12,880 in the bloodstream and just going around. 836 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,440 So it's much easier for your body to use those carbs. 837 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,760 So, and I think it's good for your, for us as runners to 838 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,680 sometimes practice that fat oxidation or the using of fat as 839 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,040 a source of energy. OK, perfect. 840 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,200 Hugo, thank you so much for your time. 841 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,080 And maybe you want to let our listeners know or viewers where 842 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,800 they can find you if they want to. 843 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,680 Sure, sure. So yeah, maybe on they can go to 844 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:46,760 our website kenyacamp.com, that's Kenya hyphen camp.com. 845 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,560 They can find all information there about me and my team and 846 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,120 what we are doing. And yeah, I think that's the 847 00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,200 best place to go and welcome everyone to come to Kenya and 848 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,200 train with us here and learn from the Kenyans. 849 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,480 And yeah, I don't know if you're also going to tell people 850 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,000 already about our upcoming camp or not yet. 851 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,000 I think that's a good way of maybe introducing it. 852 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,560 So yes, we are planning a camp together for February of next 853 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,000 year and it's going to be amazing. 854 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,400 And we'll have information available soon. 855 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,760 We'll have that website up running very soon. 856 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,720 Yeah, yeah. I look forward to that and hope 857 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:31,640 to welcome many people to Kenya to show how beautiful it is here 858 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,240 and, you know, and immersing them in the Kenyan running 859 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,720 culture. Yes, absolutely. 860 00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:40,640 It's going to be a one-of-a-kind experience. 861 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,840 So thank you again, Hugo. Thank you so much. 862 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:45,880 Thanks buddy. Thanks for having me. 863 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:58,600 Bye bye. Thank you so much, Hugo for 864 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,960 speaking with me. This was very insightful and 865 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,880 enjoyable. I definitely, Ryan, am a person 866 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,600 that loves high volume and coincidentally, as you know, I 867 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,280 did my DNA testing and plugged it into that calculator that I 868 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,880 just spoke about the run dot website where it tells you what 869 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,440 you respond to best and mine definitely said endurance and 870 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,600 not the interval training. So I always kind of felt that, 871 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,840 but I don't know if I can see this website confirmed it. 872 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,480 It confirmed what you were thinking anyway, yes. 873 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,480 Can you elaborate on the plans for the run Cam? 874 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,480 I sure can. So since I went to Kenya in 875 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,800 January, I really fell in love with the place and I wanted to 876 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,520 come back and find a way of bringing more people. 877 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,800 I feel like traveling to a place like Kenya can be intimidating, 878 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,640 especially if you're coming from the US because it is a third 879 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,360 world country. And if you don't really know 880 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,080 your way around it, then it's it's a difficult place to 881 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,000 travel. So when I met Coach Hugo, I 882 00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,400 learned about his running camp and all the perks that a running 883 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,960 camp can entail. So we put our heads together and 884 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,400 came up with a really cool itinerary which you guys can see 885 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,400 online. I'm going to link the website in 886 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,120 our show notes if you are interested in seeing what an 887 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,280 itinerary looks like. And Ryan will probably have 888 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,200 another episode coming up where we really dive into the details 889 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,640 of what really happens at these run cams. 890 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,360 Yeah, you were really excited when you got back from Kenya and 891 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,760 you thought it was a really cool experience, so hopefully other 892 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,280 people might be interested and they would be able to experience 893 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,640 kind of what those elite runners do for training and how they 894 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,280 live and everything. And get humbled by the altitude, 895 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,160 that's for sure. So yeah, we'll have a website. 896 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,120 Very excited for that. And that's it for today. 897 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,000 Thanks for hanging out with us in our podcast and if you made 898 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,360 it this far, you should feel accomplished. 899 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,080 And you should subscribe, definitely also subscribe to our 900 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,240 YouTube channel, which you can find it as Letty runs on YouTube 901 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,920 one word, and I'll link that in the show notes as well. 902 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,520 I tried 2 words and it doesn't show your podcast or your 903 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,920 YouTube channel. Yeah, I'm not that popular yet, 904 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,800 so it's not the first thing that pops up, so just keep looking. 905 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,560 You have to put it together, no spaces and with that. 906 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,760 Have a great week of running. Thanks for tuning in. 907 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:16,720 For more information, go to www.marathonrunningpodcast.com 908 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,000 or check us out on all channels.