1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,760 You're listening to episode 219 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,240 In this episode, we're going to hear from Claudio Beradelli, who 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,200 is the coach of a Kenyan Olympic marathon runner. 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,600 This is the Marathon Running Podcast by Letty and Ryan from 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,360 Week at the Runs. Join us in our running community 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,040 for weekly content that is motivational, educational and 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,040 inspirational, and that the Marathon Running Podcast take 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,120 you from the starting line to the finish line and beyond. 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,160 Hey runners, and welcome to episode 219. 10 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:42,920 My name is Letty. My name is Ryan. 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,640 And welcome to everyone that is new and welcome back if you have 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,080 been a long term listener, listening to our weekly podcasts 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,800 on all things training, coaching, nutrition, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,400 inspiration, et cetera. So with the Olympic marathon 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,200 coming up, what a better person to talk to than one of the 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,680 trainers for the Olympic athletes. 17 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,400 Yes, that's right. So I was super excited about 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,200 this interview. What a great thing to interview 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,680 a coach of that caliber, I mean elite coach of the Kenyans. 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,200 And as you know, I've been following the Kenyan elite 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,000 runners for years and looked into even camps in Kenya because 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,160 I'm so intrigued by that whole world that I've never had a 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,480 glimpse of. And so by attending these 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,360 marathons and press conferences, I was very lucky to meet some 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,520 people that connected me with this trainer. 26 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:28,560 So tell me. More about him. 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,640 Yeah. So Claudio Beradelli is the 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,160 coach of Benson Capruto. He is originally from Italy, but 29 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,920 he's been living in Kenya for a really long time now and 30 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,560 coaching these elite athletes. He is Benson Capruto's coach, 31 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:46,720 who, if you don't know, has been winning and, you know, getting 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,960 podium at a lot of the major marathons within the last few 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,200 years. So he is up and coming. 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,080 I think his PR is at 202. He won the Tokyo Marathon 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,880 recently. He's won Boston before. 36 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,800 He's won Chicago before. But yeah, so super interesting. 37 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,040 And he agreed to come on the podcast and speak with me. 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,000 What did? You guys talk about? 39 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Yes. So we hopped into what it's like 40 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,880 to live in Kenya, the culture of Kenya, how elite athletes in 41 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,320 Kenya live, how they think, how the training camp works, you 42 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,160 know, the challenges that they're facing. 43 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,440 And then we also talked a little bit about the Paris Marathon and 44 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,120 strategy. Of course, I know that was 45 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,520 something that you were going to ask about. 46 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,000 I thought it'd be cool to get some insight into the strategy 47 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,720 as you watch the race. It'd be kind of a fun to see 48 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,640 what happens. Of course, and obviously he's 49 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:37,320 not going to reveal all his secrets, right? 50 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,400 But you know, I was more asking what are some things that you 51 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,000 have to think about being so far in the front? 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,880 Because most of us, we run in the middle, in the back. 53 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,320 They're not planning on winning a race. 54 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,640 But for the people up front, they always have to think about, 55 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,640 you know, what do we do? When do we push it? 56 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:57,120 If somebody starts picking up and going a faster pace, do we 57 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:58,400 go with them? Things like that. 58 00:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,840 Yeah, I think that stuff's interesting. 59 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,000 And also the course of course in Paris, we've heard about it. 60 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,640 It's not the best course. It's in the middle of August. 61 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:07,560 It's going to be hot and hilly and all that stuff. 62 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,680 So, you know, just things of that nature. 63 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:12,640 Hopefully just having some of this insight will make it make 64 00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:16,200 watching the race even more fun. Absolutely, and maybe next week 65 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,480 we can talk about the Olympic marathon a little bit more and 66 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,680 about who to look out for and maybe talk about some of the key 67 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:24,880 players. Yeah. 68 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,720 That mean? I think that would be fun, yeah. 69 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,320 So you want to get into it? Yeah. 70 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,480 So without any further ado, we're now going to speak with 71 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,640 Claudio Beradelli. All right, so I'm on here with 72 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,400 Claudio Beradelli, head coach of Two Running Club. 73 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,680 Thank you so much for joining us today. 74 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,680 Thank you Letty, and thank you for having me. 75 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,080 No, absolutely. I'm super grateful given that as 76 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,440 we're going to get into, you coach some of the highest 77 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,040 achieving marathoners in the world and the Olympics are right 78 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,240 around the corner. So I'm super appreciative of 79 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,080 your time. But perhaps we can start with 80 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,640 your background. Maybe you can tell us a little 81 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,320 bit about yourself, how you ended up in Kenya and how you 82 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,240 ended up coaching all the elites. 83 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,200 Yeah, it's quite a long story Anyway, I'm, I'm from Italy, as 84 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:21,160 you might have heard from my Italian accent and everything 85 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:28,200 started probably back in the early 2000 when I got my degree 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,600 in sports science. So I started at the University 87 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,360 of Milan. And actually during my, during 88 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,800 my, my time at the university is when I got in touch with some 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,920 very interesting people. They played an important role in 90 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,640 what I did and what I'm still doing. 91 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:51,840 And so some of my, some of my university mates basically 92 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,520 involved me in a lot of discussions in regards of 93 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,240 endurance in general via 2 marks, threshold and whatever. 94 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,320 And that's why I got really passionate about again, 95 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,360 endurance in general. And then it happened during 96 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,600 during that time that one of my friends got involved, he 97 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,320 actually got employed by one of the leading management in the 98 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,240 award when it comes to East African. 99 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:19,520 So Rosa management. That one was 2002. 100 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,400 And a few months after he got employed, he asked me if 101 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,480 basically I was interested in helping him as a sort of 102 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,400 assistant coach. I was still at the university, 103 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:36,560 but I was able maybe early in the morning with those athletes 104 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,280 spending time in Italy because you live in those years there 105 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:40,920 were a lot of Rd. races in Europe. 106 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,520 So we had the quite a number of Kenyans spending a lot of months 107 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,880 in Italy. So then in the morning I was on 108 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,840 the bike, cutting the water, doing the basic things, taking 109 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:54,640 time and you know, but definitely my background as a 110 00:05:54,640 --> 00:06:00,760 sport boy was not running. So I had no clue about things 111 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,520 like 3 minutes per kilometer, 68 per lab. 112 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,880 Those things for me were totally unknown. 113 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,080 I've been a cyclist myself up to a junior level, but for me was 114 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,640 super exciting to have such an experience. 115 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:21,800 And then in 2004, I got a chance to have my first trip to Kenya. 116 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,520 It was supposed to be a 10 days trip just to have a better look 117 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:34,560 on how things were in Kenya. And then once I got here, I 118 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,400 thought, OK, maybe I can stay a little bit longer because I 119 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,040 wanted to learn more. I wanted to explore more. 120 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,960 So basically what initially was a 10 days trip became a 20 years 121 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,720 trip. I'm still here. 122 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,040 I'm still here exploring. I'm still here learning a lot. 123 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,600 Eventually in these 20 years, so many things happened. 124 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,240 Good things, bad things. Unfortunately as well, I got 125 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,600 married to Claudia. She's from Kenya. 126 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,720 We got two kids. And yeah, 2015 I left Rosa 127 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:10,680 management and I started somehow my, my, my independent group 128 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,840 training group to running club. Then that time I needed an agent 129 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,760 to take care of my guys because myself, I just wanted to be a 130 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,680 coach. So I got in touch with another 131 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,640 agent, another one of the top agent in the world for East 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,520 African Johnny de Madonna. And then from 2016 up to up to 133 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,560 today, we have been having a very nice collaboration, his 134 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:41,720 team, Eric Lillo, Monica Poncha for all the team and and we had 135 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,160 honestly we had also quite a good success. 136 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,560 That is an amazing story. So much to unpack still, right? 137 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,120 Because now you're living in Kenya and you see the Kenyan 138 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,440 lifestyle and everything. And I'm going to try to put that 139 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,080 into the questions that I'm going to ask you. 140 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,800 But first, let's talk about a few of your success stories. 141 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,320 Which athletes that are worldly known do you currently coach? 142 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,720 But allow me to say that I was fortunate enough, seems to 143 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,520 afford to work with some incredible athletes. 144 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,480 If I go back at the very beginning of my story here in 145 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:24,800 Kenya when I was still 2023 years old and I was kind of 146 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,800 pretending to be a coach. But I always say that someone 147 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,480 like Martin Level won during those years, won a London 148 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,919 Marathon three times, New York City Marathon two times. 149 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,720 And he's one of the first athletes I, I started working 150 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,520 with. And, but I always say he was 151 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,680 actually the one coaching me to become a coach because I, I was 152 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:51,680 not in a position to, to really coach him at the time. 153 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:54,960 But I was doing everything in my possibilities to, to help him. 154 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,280 And it has been an amazing experience together with Martin 155 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,080 Lell or Robert Cheriot, who won Boston four times, Chicago. 156 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:07,280 And then I had also the privilege to work with some of 157 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,560 some very good middle distance athletes, Janet Jeff Kozgay, who 158 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:16,160 won title in two O 7 in the 800 and then Alpha Kiwi ego. 159 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,280 He also won the 800 meters world championship in two O 7. 160 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,840 You assume she won the title, the world championship in 2013 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,680 in Moscow up to the recent years. 162 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,760 OK, currently I'm I'm having again the privilege to coach 163 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,280 Amos Kipruto who won London Marathon in 2022, Evans Tibet 2 164 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,840 times Boston Marathon champion, New York City Marathon champion 165 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,120 Benson Kipruto, who will actually represent Kenya this 166 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,840 year, the Olympic Games and he won Tokyo Marathon this year. 167 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,360 Sebastian Sawa is the current half marathon world champion 168 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,720 Margaret Chelima, She got silver medal at the half marathon world 169 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,840 Championship and also she got bronze medal at the cross 170 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,160 country world championship. She will represent Kenya in the 171 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,560 10,000. And also again I have I've 172 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,480 always been involved in middle distance and marathon, which is 173 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,760 not easy, had to shift from the very short distance to the very 174 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,560 long one. But currently I'm also coaching 175 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:22,440 Emmanuel Wagnoni who last year got silver medal in in Budapest 176 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,280 in the 800 and this ZRM 141 seven. 177 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,400 So I have around 3035 athletes. Of course I couldn't do this 178 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,280 without assistant coaches from Kenya. 179 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,320 I have, I have 3 assistant coaches. 180 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,000 I have a team of physiotherapies. 181 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,120 So it's a it's a teamwork and I'm very thankful to to my team. 182 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,320 That's amazing, some amazing names for those of us that 183 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,200 follow the marathon distance and middle distance as well. 184 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,000 So let's hop into the way that it works, right, 'cause you have 185 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,240 a training camp and how does that work? 186 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,720 Do they live on this campus that you have and how often do they 187 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,760 train? What does this camp entail? 188 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,360 Yeah, the training camp concept is very common in Kenya. 189 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:12,800 You have several training camps well established from the main, 190 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:19,400 from the main management and and I think the training camp is a 191 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,960 little war by by its own in a sense that once you are inside 192 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,720 there, there is a way of staying, there is a way of 193 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,640 leaving. And mostly is probably the idea 194 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,160 of keeping all the noise away, all the distractions that you 195 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:39,560 can have from a bit, let me say, a dynamic society here in Kenya, 196 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:46,640 as many people are aware, when when a Kenyan athlete manages to 197 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,440 succeed, then to be also financially stable. 198 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:55,240 Of course, many people expect help, which we do understand. 199 00:11:55,240 --> 00:12:01,240 And actually many athletes plans to help the large families, but 200 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,560 it can be a little bit stressful a time. 201 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,080 So this idea to have a place away from home, maybe not 202 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,880 particularly far away. It can also, it can only be 203 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,520 sometimes a few kilometres away from home. 204 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,400 But it's it's like a place we which actually protects the 205 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:22,480 athletes. And well, in my case, because I 206 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,240 believe if other camps, they might have their own way of 207 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,000 doing things. In my case, in my group, I 208 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,880 founded 2 running club in 2016 and we decided together with my 209 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:42,040 guys to to call it actually two because we believe it's 210 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,520 basically a concept which can express togetherness. 211 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,160 So the individual for the group and the group for the 212 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,640 individuals. And so running, it's, it's an 213 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,480 individual sport, but there is a lot when it comes to stay in a 214 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,240 group. They really help each other 215 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,080 beyond even running. So you have the, the, the, the 216 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,080 the more experienced athletes guiding the young ones in many 217 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,680 ways, not just on how to run faster and being stronger, but 218 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:18,920 maybe also how to do their first investments and how to take the 219 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,880 best out of these opportunity, which for them is life changing 220 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,560 actually. Yeah, absolutely. 221 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,800 I can't imagine. And that kind of goes back to 222 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,160 Kenya, right? Because in Kenya, running is the 223 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,480 main sport. Maybe you can tell us a little 224 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,720 bit about how that works compared to other countries you 225 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,800 grew up in Italy, obviously soccer is the number one sport. 226 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,680 Is running the same for Kenyans? Yeah, absolutely. 227 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:50,920 Running is, is the sport in Kenya, no doubt, although it's, 228 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,360 it's, it's a bit, it's a bit different because you have 229 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:03,400 easily at least maybe walking in Adora town, tops of the town, in 230 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,560 10 town and you might not even notice them. 231 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,080 And maybe they are, I don't know, Olympic champions, world 232 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,760 champions, you know, So there is really a level of humbleness 233 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,000 which is different. Actually, I feel like they are 234 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,040 more recognized when they go abroad. 235 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,160 And sometimes some of them they don't even know how to handle 236 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,440 these because they are not used to it. 237 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:32,360 But this is very nice because keeps them very connected to 238 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,160 their normal life because actually it goes back a little 239 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,720 bit to what drives them to, to, to run the best they can people. 240 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:47,280 They might say that making money might not be an intrinsic 241 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,920 motivation that can last. But for them, making money is 242 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,720 not just make money to become rich, but is to make money to 243 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:02,080 get really a better life and to, to help their families who have 244 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,960 a better life. And that, that is also something 245 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,320 which motivates me a lot because I feel part of, of the 246 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:16,160 responsibility really to, to, to, to help them to have such an 247 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:21,840 impact in the society because each of them will have a huge 248 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,760 impact for generations to come. There will be probably some 249 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,760 young people that in 5-10 years will be able to go to the 250 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,640 university, for example, to have a better education. 251 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,680 And they might not know that everything has changed because 252 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,880 some are like, for example, Benson Kipruto has been able to 253 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,920 provide an opportunity to their brothers and to his brothers and 254 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,320 sisters. And the brothers and sisters 255 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,080 have been able to give an opportunity to their children 256 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:52,960 and then the children of their children. 257 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,400 And you understand it's something which will continue 258 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,520 for years to come. And that's something very nice 259 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,360 to me and I'm very privileged to be part of it. 260 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,240 Yeah, that's awesome and that's beautiful. 261 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,880 We hear those stories also. Career, right, Wesley? 262 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,600 Career coming back, Building Schools in Kenya, things of that 263 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,600 nature. Absolutely. 264 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:19,800 Yeah, Yeah. All right, so now from our 265 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,560 sponsor, Tifosi Optics. 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How is the thinking maybe 306 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,840 different when it comes to running and motivation etcetera? 307 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,560 Yeah, of course, despite having been here for 20 years, 308 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:49,160 sometimes I still struggle because my Italian attitude 309 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,600 actually is not that easy to to to remove it. 310 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,600 But what sometimes for me is obvious is not that obvious for 311 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,480 them because they have different backgrounds, they have grown up 312 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:08,440 in a different culture. So my role as a coach, it has 313 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,880 definitely a technical aspect, no doubt. 314 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,320 And I think that as a coach that I'm always trying to evolve 315 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,720 technically. I'm trying to keep myself 316 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:25,920 updated as much as I can. But then, you know, every day I 317 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,920 have to sit down in my office and I have to to listen to some 318 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,680 of their problems, which maybe are not technical problems, are 319 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,880 problems related to their families, problems related to 320 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,000 how things are going in their lives. 321 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,800 And of course, if I want to help them, I have to always 322 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,640 understand the context in which I'm operating. 323 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,400 And I have really to try my best to detach. 324 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,520 Not that I always, I'm always able to do that, but I have 325 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,320 really to try to detach myself from my Italian way of seeing 326 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,400 things, you know, So what for us might be? 327 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,880 Normal. It is not normal. 328 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,840 Yeah. And again, despite 20 years, 329 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,120 sometimes I struggle a bit, but my wife helps me. 330 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,360 So I've learned a bit. I'm still learning. 331 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,200 That's why I'm saying that even if I've been doing the same 332 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,240 things for 20 years, but it's never the same because you 333 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,960 encounter different human beings in your journey and each of them 334 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:38,000 is different and with his or our own individual story and the 335 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,880 background. So of course there is probably a 336 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,520 common pattern which is related to the society here. 337 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:50,040 But then you know people, they say another Kenyan winning. 338 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,160 For me, it's not another Kenyan for me it's Ada Amos Kipruto, 339 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,400 Benson Kipruto, Sebastian Sawa and you keep. 340 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,880 So they are not just Kenyans, they are individuals with their 341 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,560 own stories, amazing stories because some of them, they 342 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,840 really come from very difficult background and the way they can 343 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,880 succeed is is is amazing for me. Yeah, I know. 344 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,720 I love that. But you know, for somebody who's 345 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,720 not familiar with Kenya, right, we hear, OK, there's the Kenyans 346 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,680 and then there's The Ethiopians. And just in general, they're a 347 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,160 much faster nation than even the United States, right? 348 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,520 the United States Olympic trial qualifiers are right around 208. 349 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:30,640 What is it about Kenyans in general that makes them so fast? 350 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,680 You know, there have been already quite a number of 351 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:40,160 studies trying to identify why probably E Africans, let's say 352 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,400 Kenyans in this case, because I'm in Kenya are so fast. 353 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,320 And it's pretty interesting because these dominance comes 354 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,280 from a very small region. We can't even say Kenya. 355 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,280 They're not strong athletes from Mombasa are not strong athletes 356 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:01,120 from all the regions in Kenya, but specifically from from some 357 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,960 few regions, the one where I'm based there and we know mostly 358 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,320 from one tribe, which is the Kalenjin tribe. 359 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,000 But even there, there are sub tribes. 360 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,120 We have the Nandi, we have the Marquette. 361 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:19,360 So it's really a small area producing such a high number of 362 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:23,120 at least now if you ask me what is the reason physiologically 363 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:27,640 speaking, there are maybe some studies trying to show that 364 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,720 maybe the Kenyans are able to sustain for longer a higher 365 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,200 percentage of their PA2 Max. But I would say if I have trial 366 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,800 though I've stopped long time ago to try to understand why, 367 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,960 but it's more for me now to to to live the experience. 368 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,320 But anyway, if I can try to say in my opinion is that probably 369 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,600 it's a perfect combination of many factors. 370 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,080 Some of them are so-called intrinsic factors, more 371 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:03,160 physiological factors, some are more extrinsic factors related 372 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:09,600 to the fact that most of the people here running in school 373 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,680 and and probably when they start moving, running from such an 374 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,560 early age, they develop some physiological adaptations so 375 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,240 that in long term can then make them very good, very good 376 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,680 athletes. But then also I think it's more 377 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,640 social aspect. Probably. 378 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,160 I've never been in Brazil, but they can imagine that all the 379 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,000 kids, they're playing a ball in every, in every corner. 380 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,640 It is the street or it's a football pitch or wherever it 381 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,560 is. And then they develop incredible 382 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,200 skills. So somehow is is the same here 383 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,400 when it comes to running kids in school, Yes, they practice some 384 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,920 other few sports, but more or less is just about running, 385 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,080 Yeah. That's a good, that's a good 386 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:57,840 answer. And you know, I've heard before 387 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,480 about the Kenyans are the fastest ones coming from certain 388 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,040 tribes and that you can identify the names if they start with Kip 389 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,800 for male and Cheb for female. Am I getting that right? 390 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,720 Yeah. In the in the Kalenjin tribe, 391 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:21,640 there is a, how do you call it, prefix Kip, which actually is 392 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,560 common for the Kalenjin and the and the Kip is for the man and 393 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,640 chap or chap is for, for for the women. 394 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,280 Yeah, it's true. So the moment you hear that 395 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:36,040 sound, you can be sure he or she is a good, is a is a good 396 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,480 runner. No doubt about it. 397 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,080 Yeah. Yeah, I like that. 398 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,960 OK, All right. So let me get some useful 399 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,120 information since I have one of the best coaches in the world 400 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,680 with me for our runners, which is average runners. 401 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,160 My question would be do you implement the 8020 rule, you 402 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,360 know where 80% of running is easy and then 20 fast or how is 403 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,680 your how? How do you view all this when it 404 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,600 comes to coaching? Of course it depends which 405 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,840 distance we are talking about. But for example, in marathon, I 406 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,640 can't say that we fully use the polarized system, although 407 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:16,680 because we do also quite a lot of stuff at threshold intensity. 408 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,760 But I would say that 8020 is an interesting concept where we 409 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,960 have definitely picked some useful insights. 410 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,480 I think Steven Saylor has actually published a lot and 411 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,640 guided us a lot on the 8020 and for example, this idea that even 412 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,960 for very important athletes, like for example the one I'm 413 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:48,680 coaching, running slow and for long steel can generate 414 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,240 adaptations in terms of mitochondrial Biogenesis, those 415 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,880 type of things. So yeah, we don't really use the 416 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,120 8020, but Kenyans are pretty famous for running slow and they 417 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:07,080 do their easy runs, which is true, and they run quite a large 418 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,280 amount of of kilometers per week. 419 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,400 So in that side, yes, we do also high intensity, but there is 420 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,160 also a bit of stuff in between. OK. 421 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,400 So just to kind of make it visual for runners, what is the 422 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,360 average pace that Benson Kipruto runs for a mile for a marathon? 423 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,200 OK, no, I think it's faster per kilometer. 424 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:40,960 Benson ran a two O 216 in February in Tokyo. 425 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:47,520 That one makes him to be the fifth fastest man in the world. 426 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,640 So I think he's around 254 their average pace, which is pretty 427 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,760 fast. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's 428 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,120 something that maybe people they don't realize. 429 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:07,000 I always tell people, OK, hey, listen, do this, try to mark on 430 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,080 the road, not even 1 kilometer, maybe just 500 meters and try to 431 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,200 run as fast as you can. And you might realize how 432 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,160 incredible are these guys that they run for two hours as such 433 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,920 an incredible, such an incredible pace. 434 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,320 So even watching them in television probably doesn't give 435 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,840 a real we're feeling on how fast they they are. 436 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,560 I think some people they might even struggle actually riding a 437 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,240 bike for two hours at such pace if they're not fit enough. 438 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,240 Right, right. So to to give it to our 439 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,480 listeners, cause a lot of them are from the United States. 440 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,480 So you said around 250 per kilometer. 441 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,000 Oh well, no, I would say more 254 per or 254. 442 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,960 All right, so that's four and a half, 440 per mile. 443 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,240 So how slow does he run his easy miles? 444 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,560 Oh, that's interesting. Now really easy. 445 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:08,080 You might wonder that you can actually have an easy run with 446 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,400 him and you might be pretty much surprised sometimes like hey, 447 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,480 you see really an elite athlete because they can run as easy as 448 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,520 a six minutes per kilometre. Do the conversion for me, but 449 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,200 you'll see it's quite easy. So if you run 6 minutes per 450 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,200 kilometer, that's a 9 minute and 42nd mile. 451 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,800 Again, for example, this is one of the things that OK, they can 452 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,840 run from six down to five when they go easy. 453 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,880 Still, 5 minutes per K is pretty easy. 454 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,960 I might say that maybe running too slow sometimes can be even a 455 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,800 bit dangerous because biomechanical is not probably 456 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:54,520 the best, but OK, there are also some something, some way, some 457 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,840 ways of doing things that I've decided just to accept and not 458 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,120 to change too much. For example, most of the Kenyan 459 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,000 athletes, they, they have to run in the morning when it's still 460 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,560 dark. For them, if, if they don't 461 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,360 start running when it's still dark, it's like they're not 462 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,920 optimizing their time. They have this idea that they 463 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,720 have to run basically when the sun is rising and, and, and 464 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,120 sometimes I have at least that they come back to me and say, 465 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,760 Oh, I got, I twisted my ankle a little bit in the morning. 466 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,240 And I'm like, of course, if you go when it's still dark, you 467 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,560 don't see where you step. And then, but again, you always 468 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,160 have to respect and consider a little bit the context. 469 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:41,240 And so compromising is, I think it it is important in coaching 470 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,120 in general because again, when you deal with human beings in 471 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,120 general is important, but even more when you do it in a culture 472 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,320 which is different from the one where you come from. 473 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,320 Yeah, no, it's, it's very interesting in the that's cool 474 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,240 that you have such an insight on, you know, having both 475 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,120 cultures to compare to. But I guess, yeah, my last 476 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,160 question is in regards to the Paris Marathon Olympics. 477 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,840 What are your thoughts on this course? 478 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,560 Well, everyone knows it's an interesting one. 479 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,840 With Benson. We had a trip more than a month 480 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,120 ago. We went to have a look because 481 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,240 we thought it was a good thing. And I think many athletes 482 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:31,040 actually did that because from roughly 14K up to 32 K, let's 483 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,800 say it's an interesting one. Whoever came up with this idea 484 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:41,360 decided to to, to to put up a show so and considering that we 485 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:48,200 are expecting also quite a challenging weather in August, I 486 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,160 read an article a few days ago that they are expecting one of 487 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,160 the hottest Olympics in the recent years. 488 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,040 So I think most of the athletes are working for it. 489 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:06,920 So I would say probably the course might not be, I mean, 490 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,160 yeah, it will be the key aspect, but no one, there are no 491 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:17,040 athletes who don't know how the course is because either they 492 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,440 have gone to parties of there are a lot of videos around. 493 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,000 So it's more the combination of everything this course in such 494 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,840 where the conditions and tactically will be an 495 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,440 interesting race because if you do, if you do a wrong move maybe 496 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,080 too early, you might then pay. I still believe that the last 497 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,280 10K will probably play a key role. 498 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,400 So with Benson, we are trying to of course to work specifically 499 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,520 for Paris. We, we, we knew since the moment 500 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,160 we started training for this marathon that we had really to 501 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,800 forget, for example, what we did for Tokyo in February. 502 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,560 Still, it's a marathon, but approach has to be completely 503 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,120 different. Yeah. 504 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,520 And to to hop into that, and I'm not going to have you reveal 505 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,120 your training secrets on how the strategy should be, but what are 506 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,840 some things that coaches have to consider when it comes to 507 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,760 running a marathon of that significance? 508 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,720 Oh, well, I think tactical is difficult to say. 509 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:28,560 I would say that probably in my case, I think with Benson, we 510 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,480 will try not to have a plan. I mean, because probably if you 511 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,880 stick too much with one plan, you might find yourself probably 512 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:46,200 a bit lost in case something unexpected will happen. 513 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,400 So probably the plan is not to have a plan and to be and to be 514 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:58,080 and to be ready to interpret and to read the race really step by 515 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,640 step, moment by moment. And in this case, I think the 516 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:07,760 experience of Benson, who has been in his last six marathons, 517 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,920 he has been on the podium and they were all major marathons 518 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,560 winning Boston, Chicago, Tokyo. So I think Benson comes into 519 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,600 these Olympics at the right time, probably in East Korea, 520 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,280 because he's a very experienced athlete, but also physically and 521 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:33,840 mentally still very, very fresh. So of course, I think there is 522 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:40,200 also a psychological demand for a race like this one because the 523 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,120 capacity to persevere may be very difficult conditions is 524 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,640 something that you have to prepare for and you cannot just 525 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,960 show up on that day. I'm prepared and just hoping 526 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,760 that because you, you are a good marathon runner like Benson who 527 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,120 ran 2/02/16 and he can't just say, oh, because I was the 528 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,160 fastest in the world this year, I will be able to perform in 529 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,480 Paris. Absolutely, absolutely no. 530 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,199 Again, he has to be ready for this specific event. 531 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,639 That's why I expect probably that we might have OK, without 532 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,000 disrespecting anyone, but I think we might have somehow 533 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,320 unknown athletes being protagonist in in in Paris. 534 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,719 That's what I that's what I'm expecting. 535 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:27,960 Yeah, that's so true. And you know, not to take away 536 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,960 from the grandiose event that this is going to be, but even 537 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,800 for us to dumb it down, the Boston Marathon in 2018, we had 538 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,880 people winning it that were not expected to win it on the ladies 539 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,679 side because nobody else stuck with it and persevered through 540 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,760 it. So that's a really good point. 541 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,800 But yeah, thank you so much for talking with me and I wish the 542 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,679 best of luck to you and your athlete. 543 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,120 Thanks a lot and once again thanks for having me. 544 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,880 Thank you so much, Claudio, for coming on to our podcast. 545 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,800 We appreciate your you taking the time to do that. 546 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,440 And of course, good luck with, you know, these the, this 547 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,200 marathon that's coming up and hopefully we'll speak with you 548 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,680 soon. Yeah, what a cool contact to 549 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,840 have, especially given that we're going to be watching this 550 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,560 marathon and the Olympics pretty soon. 551 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,200 I know, absolutely. I wish I were still in Europe. 552 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,040 Well I am in Europe right now, but I wish I wouldn't fly out in 553 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,280 the next couple of days. I wish I would stay till August 554 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,280 12th and truly just be in the streets of Paris and cheer 555 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:38,560 everyone on but can't do it all. Stay tuned for next week where 556 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,520 we talk about something new and we haven't decided what yet. 557 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,360 We're working on it, so until then. 558 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:51,560 Have a good week of running. Thanks for tuning in. 559 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,680 For more information Ant Marathon Running News, please 560 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,560 head to www.marathonrunningpodcast.com 561 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:14,160 and we'll be back next week. 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