1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,400 You're listening to episode 301 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,480 In this episode, we're going to talk about how much training is 3 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:10,000 too much. Welcome to the Marathon Running 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,920 Podcast by Marathon Journal. Join us every week for the 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,560 insights and inspiration you need to get from the starting 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,600 line to the finish line and beyond. 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,440 Hey runners, and welcome to episode 301. 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,200 My name is Letty. My name is Ryan. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,640 And we are actually prerecording this episode because at the time 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,760 of this episode airing, I'm going to be in Kenya. 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,280 Ryan I just said episode 301 and it kind of threw me for a loop. 12 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:42,200 301 episodes, That's a lot. That is a lot. 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,680 Happy 301. Yes, thank you. 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,240 So how is Kenya's weather right now? 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,240 I'm assuming it's going to be just as always. 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,920 I think Kenya's weather is pretty stable. 17 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,000 It's usually 50s and 60s in the morning. 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,520 It's crisp. Not so crisp as you might 19 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,200 assume, because you see all the Kenyan runners always completely 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,880 wearing a ton of clothes. But I think it's just because 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,720 they don't have a lot of body fat we do. 22 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,840 So for us it's T-shirt weather and then it warms up during the 23 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,080 day. So that's kind of nice. 24 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Yeah, I wonder how it's going to be like, how you feel about it 25 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,560 when you get back. Yes, not even when I get back, 26 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,720 Ryan, you can just can actually follow this journey on YouTube. 27 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,360 I'm planning on doing a daily vlog again like I did last year 28 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,600 because I think that worked out pretty well for me. 29 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,080 It was kind of fun and then in the evening I would just throw 30 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:28,960 it all together and that turned out pretty nice. 31 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:32,240 So hopefully I'll do that again. And if you guys are interested 32 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,120 in watching that, you can follow us on YouTube. 33 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,680 You can find us under at Marathon Journal. 34 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,400 We have changed our handle to Marathon Journal finally. 35 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,440 So when's the Kenya documentary coming out? 36 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,760 Hopefully at the end of this year, right, because we're going 37 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,840 back, getting more footage and filling on filling in all the 38 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,800 holes. I was actually working on that 39 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,280 today. So the limit of training is 40 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,520 interesting, yes. Who we talking to? 41 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,880 Yes, Ryan, we're talking to Arch Tieran Falcham, a performance 42 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,680 coach of performance physique in the UK today. 43 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,120 And he is helping me analyze a study that came out from the 44 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,199 British Journal of Sports Medicine that revealed what 45 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:12,640 numbers we've been tracking that might not be the right numbers 46 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:17,000 and kind of, you know, makes us rethink of how we define how 47 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,360 much is too much. So he'd actually reached out to 48 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,800 me because he loves research and he loves analyzing that kind of 49 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 stuff. And so we sat down and this is 50 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,880 actually the first part of a series. 51 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,720 We're going to have three episodes in a row that all talk 52 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,240 about different studies that are new on running data and how we 53 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,320 are to interpret them. So it's kind of exciting. 54 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,120 That is, I feel like we're getting a lot more information 55 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,560 nowadays because we have a lot more ways to measure it as 56 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,440 opposed to in the past. And so hopefully that 57 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,600 information is giving us good data and people are researching 58 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,080 it appropriately to get the right answers. 59 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:53,720 Exactly. Yeah, that's what we're hoping 60 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:54,920 for. And hopefully you guys will 61 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:58,800 enjoy this episode. So without any further ado, I'm 62 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,080 now going to share my conversation with Arch. 63 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,560 All right, so I'm on with Arch. To Rochelle vom Arch, thank you 64 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,400 so much for joining me today. It's my absolute pleasure and 65 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,040 what great pronunciation let's. Thank you. 66 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,320 Thank you. I was coached. 67 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,680 I am super glad to have you on. Our background is that we met in 68 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,360 Amsterdam at one of the running industry events and I was very 69 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,960 impressed by your resume and your ability to speak in front 70 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,600 of crowds. And with that, I want to kind of 71 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,840 invite you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and 72 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,240 how you are an expert in anything really running, running 73 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,520 industry leader. OK. 74 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:37,720 Thank you very much for the offer. 75 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,320 So I I've worked in this industry for 20 years. 76 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,320 I actually fell into it. There was a, an opportunity at 77 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,640 the local sports centre to just take up some part time work when 78 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,320 my ambition was to become a, a lawyer in the UK. 79 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,800 And yeah, this is, this is encroaching on your, your 80 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,880 expertise, isn't it? And whilst I was there part of 81 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,080 Team GB, the athletics group were actually based there. 82 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,760 And suddenly I just found my love of, of sport, actually had 83 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,800 a, a career opportunity. And over those 20 years I've 84 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,480 then found myself working as a a lecturer. 85 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,640 I've written a couple of sports science degrees. 86 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,680 I've worked in quite high up in nutrition as well as coaching. 87 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,200 And during those 20 years I've taken, you know, 5 year old 88 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,120 novices and I've also coached Team GB athletes, you know, I've 89 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,400 attended London 2012 and hopefully LA 2028 coming up in a 90 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,280 few years time. So it's been quite varied. 91 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,720 And I think that's what's given me my strength in, in my 92 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,160 industry is that I've touched on so many different aspects of, of 93 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,480 sport, but with the, the grounding in, in scientific 94 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,720 knowledge and that has led me to 10 years ago or 11 years ago. 95 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,440 Actually, it'll be our 12th anniversary this year. 96 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,160 It's 2026, isn't it, of Performance Physique, which is 97 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,760 my performance coaching company and where we we work with 98 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,440 numerous different sports, but our real emphasis has always 99 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,520 been within our passion which is running. 100 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,920 That's super interesting. And I'm kind of curious if you 101 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,200 can elaborate just a little bit more. 102 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,800 Who are your clients? Are they sports teams or are 103 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,840 they individuals? Everything we we basically work 104 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:07,240 with a real variety. So we have almost like a tiered 105 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:08,960 approach. We feel that everyone should 106 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,120 have the opportunity to train like an elite athlete. 107 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,560 So we'll have the Academy, which is starting at six years old. 108 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,000 It used to start at 5:00, but that's just really difficult. 109 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,200 So it starts at six years old and they get this opportunity to 110 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,560 try so many different aspects of track and field athletics and 111 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,480 then they can move in towards our more tailored training 112 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,640 groups or even individual athletes. 113 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,920 We like I said, we've had individuals who are an elite 114 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,440 play for maybe sports teams. We have a lot of football 115 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,040 academies, so football in the UK, soccer in the US and then we 116 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,920 have rugby, which I, I think it's kind of growing in the 117 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,800 States. One of my, my closest coach 118 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,040 friends, he's a former US rugby tryout player. 119 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,440 But we really do try to work with everyone. 120 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,120 Just the main thing is we want people who are passionate about 121 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,520 learning and passionate about developing. 122 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,600 That's wonderful. OK, that's great to know. 123 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,680 And with that, I mean, you have a very huge background when it 124 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,600 comes to scientific stuff as well, and I guess that's why 125 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,200 you're here. Tell me just a little brief 126 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,160 overview what we're going to be talking about. 127 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,800 Yes, I I'm guilty of this as as well. 128 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,160 Letty that when we kind of look at running research and what's 129 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,840 actually going to make us a better athlete, the majority of 130 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,760 things we already know, you know, there's it's not like 131 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,400 something dramatically is changing with our Physiology. 132 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,240 However, in the last six months there have been three really 133 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:31,240 interesting key pieces of research which are maybe 134 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,200 offering us a little bit more in terms of what we could do as as 135 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,840 runners to maximise our performance and give us a few 136 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:40,160 insights. Particularly, you know, it's 137 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,960 it's January, lots of people are returning to running, lots of 138 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,840 people are probably taking up running and they are going to 139 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:49,920 fall for some of the the great errors that we can come across. 140 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,680 And maybe today our articles can help them. 141 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,640 So the first one is an absolute massive study looking at 5200 142 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,160 runners. This this one is identifying 143 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,120 just how much running is too much and will lead to injury. 144 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,680 This is actually quite an interesting study because it 145 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,320 goes against some of our previous understandings of load 146 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,280 management. Perfect. 147 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,560 I absolutely love that and I'm glad that you're sharing that 148 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,280 with me. And maybe we can kind of 149 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,320 structure it by having you tell me who did the research, how 150 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,520 many participants we had that and all that background. 151 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,200 So we just kind of have a bit better overview of. 152 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,760 Course, and I think it'll be useful if I send you the 153 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,560 articles and you can maybe share that with your audience so they 154 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,440 can check out those articles online themselves. 155 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,080 But the first one, absolutely. So the paper is how much running 156 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,320 is too much. It's very, very 157 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,120 self-explanatory. It's by a research group in 158 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,720 Britain. So Franssen ET al. 159 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,520 Like I said, 2025 really recent paper published in the British 160 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,800 Journal of Sports Medicine. So when we talk about authority, 161 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,160 British Journal of Sports Medicine is considered one of 162 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,800 the highest, most authoritative scientific journals in the 163 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,040 world. So we know we're going to be 164 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,160 looking at some really interesting research. 165 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,360 So the idea really here was to understand at which point do we 166 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,840 risk injury by running too much. Previously most people use a 10% 167 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,600 rule. I don't know if that's that's 168 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,440 that big in the US, but in the UK it's massive and Europe is 169 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:21,760 massive. You're nodding ahead. 170 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,920 Yes, we're all used to the 10% rule and that that basically 171 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,040 means don't increase your mileage week on week by more 172 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,440 than 10%. Interestingly, 2 years ago I 173 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,000 spoke on this topic at the National Running Show and I 174 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,039 explained how the 10% rule is a little bit generalized and 175 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:40,840 actually lots of runners safely increase their load by 30% week 176 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,480 on week and lots of runners can't actually manage a more 177 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,720 than a 5% increase. And we talked about different 178 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,400 methods to overcome that. Well now looked at 5205 runners. 179 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,000 This was an absolutely massive studies, actually one of the 180 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,080 largest studies in running in history. 181 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:03,360 Now what they then took were 588,000 GPS tracked runs. 182 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:06,200 So we're talking over a half a million data points here. 183 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,720 This is really lending ourselves, you know, it's 184 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,720 demonstrating how technology is allowing us to conduct really 185 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,120 high level research on a pretty commercial scale. 186 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,440 We're not having to rely on labs and things like this. 187 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,960 So when we talk about sample size, this is big. 188 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,840 Now what they looked at throughout this, this whole big 189 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,280 longitudinal study was weekly mileage changes, the acute 190 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,360 chronic workload ratio, which is something that we use in sport 191 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,640 quite a lot. You know, that's the, that's the 192 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,480 changes between small and large and small and large runs over 193 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,400 short and long period of time to develop a load management 194 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,280 system, load management system being like a red flag for when 195 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,280 are you vulnerable for injury. And then they also looked at 196 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,880 single session distance bikes. I don't know about you, but I 197 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,800 speak to an awful lot of people, particularly in January and 198 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,920 February each year, who take up running and then suddenly decide 199 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,280 that 3 miles I did that felt all right. 200 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,680 Saturday looks nice. I'm just going to try 1/2 201 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:07,000 marathon now. This study was all about 202 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,760 pinpointing those individual runs and finding out what 203 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,000 happened there. And it starts getting really, 204 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,880 really interesting at this point because we're all expecting 205 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,480 weekly mileage to still be the most important thing here. 206 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,000 Don't get me wrong, the the most important kind of message here 207 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,000 is that this doesn't mean weekly mileage isn't important. 208 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,120 It's just that there's more to the the Is there more to the 209 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,760 coin? Is that the saying there's more? 210 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,920 Than the equation perhaps? Yes, yes. 211 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,640 So let's go with that. That sounds more scientific. 212 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,840 They basically found that weekly mileage wasn't the main 213 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,920 predictor of injury. Actually what mattered most was 214 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,480 how much a longer single run was compared to what the runner had 215 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,640 recently done most most specifically in the last 30 216 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,720 days. So anything that they did, how 217 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,520 did it vary in comparison to everything they did in the 218 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,360 previous four weeks leading up to that run? 219 00:10:54,360 --> 00:11:00,360 So the the big numbers here were 10 to 30% longer runs resulted 220 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,760 in a 50 to 65% higher injury risk. 221 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,960 So just 10% longer than anything that did in 30 days could result 222 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,600 in a 50% rise in injury prevalence. 223 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,600 So we're talking about a cumulative number. 224 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,520 So we're not talking about having one single run being 10% 225 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,320 more or having your weekend load being 10% bigger, we're talking 226 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,360 30. Days, No, we're talking a single 227 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,160 run being more than a single run that they did in the last 30 228 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,440 days. This is what's crazy. 229 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,800 So this is like, say you did a 20 kilometer run on Saturday and 230 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,280 the most that you had done for the previous 30 days was 10 231 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,960 kilometres. You're now in a extremely 232 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,080 vulnerable position because you've got 100% increase in 233 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,320 right in running distance in a single run. 234 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,520 You know, the 10% difference being even if it was just two 235 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,720 kilometres further, you are still putting yourself at a risk 236 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,440 because of the single running session. 237 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,080 They did your, your, your, your interpretation there. 238 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,240 It was exactly what I expected it to be when I first read the 239 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,480 paper. I was thinking, well, it's 240 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,960 obviously going to be, you know, a cumulative, it's not going to 241 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,360 be a one single standout run. But actually, no, the biggest 242 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,640 risk factor here was one single run would give yourself a a very 243 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,520 high chance of sustaining an injury. 244 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,200 What they found that by anyone doing my example there of the 20 245 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,520 K and the 10K, so over 100% resulted in a double the chance 246 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,240 of sustaining an injury. And then week to week percentage 247 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,360 increase didn't actually demonstrate anything 248 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,200 significant. So if you were, if you were 249 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,000 gradually increasing your mileage, but no one off runs in 250 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,640 there one off really high distance runs, everything was 251 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,440 really gradual. You know, you're I've, I've 252 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:50,520 worked with these kind of individuals in the past. 253 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,760 They're they're there to enjoy running, which is fantastic. 254 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,400 They have no competitive interests and they like to just 255 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,840 do their 10K every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, that kind of 256 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,120 thing. They basically were really safe. 257 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,080 Maybe they increased their mileage by 1 kilometer, no 258 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,640 problem. But if that individual then 259 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,240 threw in a 15 kilometer or 20 kilometer out of nowhere, it was 260 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,200 that one single run really, really made the individual 261 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,560 vulnerable. It's crazy, isn't it? 262 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,680 When you you think of, it's just one run, right? 263 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,240 Yeah. I mean, it's the, the difficult 264 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,720 part about understanding this is just to, I guess, conceptualize 265 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,080 who these people were that were in the studies. 266 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,080 Because I mean, we deal with a lot of elite runners and to 267 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,560 imagine that, you know, they finish a marathon and they're 268 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:34,680 super fast-paced and then they take time off and then they 269 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,800 start running again. They don't start at 10 miles. 270 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,600 They start at high mileage. So it's probably not including 271 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,080 those individuals. It's probably more mainstream. 272 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,920 Yeah, this, this was all recreational. 273 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,760 They didn't actually identify who the recreational kind of 274 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,600 category was from memory. They did though disclose times. 275 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,480 So what was acceptable as a non elite? 276 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,440 Effectively what I would say is that elites have gone through 277 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,400 years in terms of training age. So training age is where we say 278 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,640 you've trained for four years now. 279 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,960 You're considered more than a lot of people listening to this 280 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,520 will say. I've run for a year, I'm not a 281 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,000 novice as a training age. Lucky you, you're still in for 282 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,440 newbie games. You're still a novice really. 283 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,800 Someone who's run for 10 years. They've built up loads of bone 284 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,520 density and therefore they're going to be OK going back in 285 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,160 you. You've given me a lovely, lovely 286 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,960 Segway though there because they did look at those who have come 287 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,600 off from time at time might be sedentary, might be injury, 288 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,640 etcetera. And they did look at obese and 289 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,800 novice runners. So they really, really delved 290 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:40,080 into those sections. And effectively, if you had had 291 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,960 an illness, maybe you had some time off either or your ceiling 292 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,720 on that 30 days needed to be lowered anyway. 293 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,960 So you couldn't consider yourself 30 days ago I was able 294 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,120 to run 15 kilometres, so I'm safe still to run 15 kilometres, 295 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,560 you've been injured. You need to bring that ceiling a 296 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,080 little bit further down. And then for the novice and 297 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,840 obese runners, they actually needed to pretty much get near a 298 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,240 50% reduction in what their single individual runs would be. 299 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,640 So this, this actually falls quite nicely for me in terms of, 300 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,520 I have recently had a double tibia fracture. 301 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,560 So in terms of, yeah, it's great. 302 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:17,920 It means a case study. Oh. 303 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,920 Wow. OK, I'm not going to ask you how 304 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,680 you did that, but it sounds pretty serious. 305 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,600 It it wasn't great, but it it stems back from me trying to be 306 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,560 a an elite athlete and massively failing many, many years ago. 307 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,640 But but yeah, double to be a fracture and then my return to 308 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,440 run portfolio looks like someone who's never run before. 309 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,760 You know, we've got walk runs for 15 minutes. 310 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,440 We've got, you know, a 3K run being a massive success. 311 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,600 We're deliberately taking really conservative approaches. 312 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,160 And this is exactly what this article really tries to 313 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,560 emphasize, that it doesn't matter about what your week on 314 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,560 week accumulation has been if if you have a single one off run, 315 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,960 which is really, really long, that's always going to outweigh 316 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,200 everything else that you're doing that single risk. 317 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,640 OK, so that is, I guess that defies the 10% rule. 318 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,040 You know, I was never really a fan of the 10% rule because 10% 319 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,040 is obviously just going to be a ballpark and a number they have 320 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,760 to throw at you. If you're running 10 miles a 321 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,840 week, you can increase one mile, but if you're running 70 miles a 322 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,520 week, you can do 70. I mean, at some point it doesn't 323 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,760 really make sense. It's exactly that. 324 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,680 I mean, I don't know what you do, Letty. 325 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,720 What? What's your kind of progression 326 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,960 increase? I mean, I when I train for 327 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:35,000 marathons that I want to run fast, I cap out at 7080 miles a 328 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,640 week and I do that for maybe 4 to 8 weeks depending on 329 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,160 schedule. I mean, right now we know it's 330 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,200 kind of difficult with the kids and all that stuff, but that's 331 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,600 the ideal situation and that's where I'm comfortable. 332 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,040 Anything really over 80, I kind of tend to get a little bit of 333 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,840 ankle pain and that kind of stuff, which I've previously 334 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:56,800 had. Joint infusions. 335 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,840 It's just a little bit too much of A load. 336 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,760 But I do love high mileage. I'm not a fan of speed work as 337 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,599 much. I do better with high mileage 338 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:05,800 chaining, which is another thing, right? 339 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,480 There's certain people that do better. 340 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,520 Well, better with one than the other. 341 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,760 Exactly. I mean, Study 2 looks, looks at 342 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,359 that, that kind of discrepancy between the individual 343 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,079 differences. I think, I think what you're 344 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,760 saying, I mean, 18 miles is, is great. 345 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,160 I mean, that's absolutely fantastic. 346 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,359 I'd, I'd very rarely get some, my runners to be able to fit 347 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,280 that into their diary. So that's, that's fantastic. 348 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,400 What you're doing. The, the research really did 349 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,840 kind of emphasize the areas of history for each of these 350 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,160 runners as well. You know, the the fact that age, 351 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,960 BMI, bio mechanics, you know, history of Reds, all of these 352 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,640 kind of things, whether the strength training was obviously 353 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,720 a huge thing here, what kind of terrain they're running on. 354 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,920 And then, and actually, I do recall one important criteria 355 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,360 they laid out was that what kind of training program they're 356 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,120 actually following. Basically, there was a big no no 357 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,160 about self devised training effectively, whether it's it's 358 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800 to do with the fact that a lot of people didn't know how to 359 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:04,320 write training programs safely, But also we're really, really 360 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,840 basic individuals, aren't we? As humans, we just get an ego of 361 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,080 I'd really like to just try and do AB or C and that puts us in a 362 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,440 vulnerable position. So there was emphasizing that 363 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,720 beginners really should stick to a structured training program 364 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,960 that has been written for them because that's going to keep 365 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,800 them in the safest place. And if I, if I could offer a few 366 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,480 practical tips for individuals, it it would really fall down to 367 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,560 to three things. You know, obviously we're going 368 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,400 to listen to the knowledge that's been laid out and don't 369 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,160 stick in one off really, really high mileage runs. 370 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,120 Just make sure everything's gradual and, and, and sensible 371 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,840 there, but use your GPS data. Look at your GPS data that 372 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,240 you've been tracking. If you use your watch, you use 373 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,680 your etcetera. And make sure you flag when 374 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,200 you've maybe done a little bit too much. 375 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,760 We've done something which is possibly going to make you 376 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,840 vulnerable. You know, I had someone the 377 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,480 other day accidentally clock 10K extra 10 kilometers, 6 miles on 378 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,960 a run. It's like my friends wanted to, 379 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,680 it's the Christmas break. So I did, I was like, that's 380 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,840 cool, it's Christmas. And then look out for warning 381 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,440 signs. So teach yourself what is a 382 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,640 warning sign? And you've mentioned it there 383 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,200 yourself. You feel maybe some locking in 384 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,040 your ankle or some people start to feel that that sheer force at 385 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,280 the front of the patellar, the kneecap, or for others they 386 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,440 might be the shins. Whatever it is, just make sure 387 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,320 you look out for those signs and you pay attention to it. 388 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,640 You don't just dismiss it and then really accept the 389 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,160 uncertainty of what what running is. 390 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,800 You know, running brings up loads and loads of different 391 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,440 things and we shouldn't just rely on scientific data. 392 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,000 We should think about our feelings and what we're noticing 393 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,800 in our body. Everyone is different, like 394 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,800 you've said, and therefore that is under a grounding principle 395 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,480 that we need to follow as a as a runner. 396 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,160 Yeah, and you know that that's I guess the hardest part. 397 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,040 And that's why a in person or life coach, not I'm, I'm saying 398 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,800 incorrect person. I mean like somebody who's 399 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,800 alive, who's not AI, who's not an ass. 400 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,640 It's so important because we have egos, whether we want to 401 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,280 admit it or not. And when we do feel something 402 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,040 coming on, but we do have plans to really get the miles in for 403 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,680 the week, it's very difficult for us to pull the plug on it 404 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,680 because, you know, we write things off all the time. 405 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,440 I just said that yesterday I had a little niggle and I was like, 406 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,520 I just run it off. I don't, I don't know if you've 407 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,440 seen the like the meme, the GIF, which is like this runner who's 408 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,920 like, oh, I just need to test out my ankle and the ankles 409 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,040 effectively in like a cast and they're trying to do hops on it. 410 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,160 And like, yeah, I'm I'm definitely able to do it. 411 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,120 And you're like, you're completely convincing yourself 412 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:38,400 you're able to run. You're in a cast. 413 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,720 You can't can't possibly run on it, but you've managed a few 414 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,000 hops so you're safe to run. Runners, runners are their own 415 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:44,680 worst nightmare. We. 416 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,640 Really are we really are. So I do appreciate the tips. 417 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,920 And then is there anything well in the conclusion of the study 418 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,360 that we should remember as we talk to our friends about the 419 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,000 study that we heard about from ARSH? 420 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,720 Yeah, so I think this, this is the world we live in. 421 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,760 Social media is great for for teaching us things, but don't 422 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,560 start posting things on social media or listening to these 423 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,720 things on social media. I've already seen this study 424 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,640 done twice on social media, and so far they've been good 425 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,880 representations. But I can imagine people are 426 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,160 going to start saying weekly mileage doesn't matter. 427 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,800 Then I can just do as much as I just need to avoid that one big 428 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,480 high incident mileage. Let's let's not forget the 429 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,880 weekly mileage does matter. The article is just saying if 430 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,920 you have a single episode which is really, really high, that's 431 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,800 going to be worse for you than just gradually building mileage 432 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,520 again and again and again. So both matter. 433 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,280 But look out for that single episode and don't start 434 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,240 spreading on social media that weekly mileage doesn't matter 435 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,960 anymore. Yes and let's not ignore the 436 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,200 elephant in the room. Running a marathon is that 437 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,440 single episode because in your training runs, you don't run 438 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,320 more than 18, maybe 20 miles, depending on what yes. 439 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,640 So with that, you do that single episode and then get off your 440 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,120 legs right or off your. Feet. 441 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,480 Yeah, absolutely. Like, wait, I implement a four 442 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,240 week deloading period after marathons for my runners and you 443 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,800 know, there are people who have decided to restart early and 444 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,440 there is usually a telltale sign where I get to say, I told you 445 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,800 it's a it's a really important thing that we listen to our 446 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,000 bodies. Very awesome. 447 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,600 And you're deloading what? What does that entail? 448 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,680 Generally what they enjoy, so week 1 is kind of like a a 449 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,760 freedom to just relax and do some walking, do some mobility. 450 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,240 Week 2 we introduce the bike again and we start running. 451 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,680 Week 3 running is there, but there's no in high intensity 452 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,520 stuff, there's no particular volume. 453 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,640 And then week 4 is is effectively learning to train 454 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,960 again. Now when we have back-to-back 455 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,680 marathons, maybe qualifications or it's kind of in a tournament 456 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,440 esque situation or even some of these ultras, then we have to be 457 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,040 really sensible in in terms of OK, we need to train them in 458 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,280 order to achieve that. So that is a different scenario 459 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,400 and we kind of accept risk with that. 460 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,720 But for the rest of us, make the most of those four weeks where 461 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,320 you're not having to do so much mileage. 462 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:11,320 Do some baking. In seriously, and I mean the 463 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,000 best of the best dude, if anyone follows John career, who won the 464 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,760 Boston Marathon, who recently just won Valencia, his coach has 465 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,880 him take off a whole 4 weeks and then towards the end of the four 466 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,200 weeks you can see him on his socials posting Instagram reels 467 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,920 about doing Zumba, you know, just kind of lowly reloading. 468 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,120 Yes, yes, yes. And so if they can do that, if 469 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,040 they can take that much off, I think we all can too. 470 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,200 Absolutely. That makes me think of Elliot 471 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,160 doing the pacing 2 1/2 hour half marathon the other week as well. 472 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,520 That is great. It's fantastic. 473 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,520 Yeah, with the Queen of Thailand, right? 474 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,360 That's right, yeah. Yeah, absolutely beautiful. 475 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,480 Well, thank you are so much for talking to me about this. 476 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,600 No problem. So Arch, if anyone wants to get 477 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,560 in touch with you, how can they best do that? 478 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,840 Absolutely, social media is always the easiest way. 479 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,840 So it's performance. Under score physique on 480 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,360 Instagram or if people just Google my name or performance 481 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,920 physique always pop up at the top of Google with a big :). 482 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,920 Very awesome and we will obviously link everything about 483 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,640 you in our show notes. Thank you Arch for speaking with 484 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,680 me and to you listeners. Did that surprise you what you 485 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,200 heard? I thought it was very 486 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,600 interesting and hopefully we can kind of just keep that in mind 487 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,880 as we train and also, you know, when we are out there in the 488 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,560 world and spreading information about running. 489 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280 You and I, Ryan, always talk about how people say, oh, 490 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,920 running is bad for your knees and stuff just kind of gets 491 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,240 established into the brains of people. 492 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,480 Same with the 10% rule. You can't increase your running 493 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,200 by more than 10% and all that stuff. 494 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,560 So hopefully word will be spread about this new study. 495 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,200 Yeah, I think sometimes the guidelines aren't completely 496 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,240 false and sometimes the things that people have said in the 497 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,040 past aren't have some truth to them. 498 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,600 But I think as more research is done, people figure out more. 499 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,360 And sometimes things were said incorrectly, in which case we 500 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:08,920 need to figure out the correct thing and move on from there. 501 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,960 IE they running is bad for your knees thing. 502 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,880 And at other times, you know, you're just tweaking or you're 503 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,200 just changing what was already said. 504 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,920 It may not be wrong, but it's just changing. 505 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,920 I think some of the misconceptions sometimes is 506 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,680 people always think medicine or science is telling us one thing 507 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,040 and then they tell us something completely different and it's 508 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,040 not really the case. I think in the most cases they 509 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,040 just figure something out and what they originally had thought 510 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,040 or come to a conclusion too quickly for was not the complete 511 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,320 answer. And so as they learn more, they 512 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,920 get more complete answers. Yeah, and sometimes things can 513 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,080 coexist to truths can coexist next to each other too, and not 514 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,440 interfere with each other. Yeah, I think in it's human 515 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,480 nature for people to seek out simple answers and unfortunately 516 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,160 most of the things are very complex and they're not simple. 517 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,960 It's not that simple exactly so. What are we going to talk about 518 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,000 next? Week, yeah. 519 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,200 So like I said earlier, for the next two weeks, we're going to 520 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,600 do 2 more studies that we're going to talk about. 521 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,200 So next week, we'll have an episode on polarization training 522 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,480 versus pyramid training. So polarization, as you know, is 523 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,680 making your training polarized, meaning you're doing 0 stuff in 524 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,960 the Gray area, you're running either really hard or really 525 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,160 easy, and then pyramid training where you kind of do a little 526 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,240 bit of everything. So we're going to talk about 527 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,800 that and it's going to be very exciting. 528 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,080 Sounds good. And with that. 529 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,840 Have a good week of running. You've been listening to the 530 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,960 Marathon Running Podcast by Marathon Journal. 531 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,760 If you've enjoyed the show, check us out at 532 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,640 marathonjournal.com or follow us on social media. 533 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,760 Happy training.