1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800 You're listening to episode 222 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,600 In this episode, we're going to talk to an ultra runner and talk 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,560 about how we can implement lessons from ultra running into 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:19,600 our marathon training. This is the Marathon Running 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,160 Podcast by Letty and Ryan from We Got the Runs. 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,480 Join us in our running community for weekly content that is 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,280 motivational, educational and inspirational, and that the 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,080 Marathon Running Podcast take you from the starting line to 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:38,760 the finish line and beyond. Hey runners, and welcome to 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,240 episode 222. My name is Letty. 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,560 My name is Ryan. And Ryan, for some reason I feel 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,320 like I said last week it was episode 222, but nothing I can 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,280 do about it now. I can't wait for episode 262 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,000 which symbolizes the marathon distance 26.2. 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,440 Well, you're still a ways away from there. 40 episodes, so 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,640 let's get to it. So that you've been training for 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,000 a marathon, How's that been going? 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:05,920 Yeah, well, that's a good question, Ryan. 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,720 Umm, I feel like I'm cramming for this marathon, Ryan. 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,720 As you know, I didn't run that much when we were in Germany. 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,080 How are you approaching your training giving that you're 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,320 cramming for it? Umm, we have less than four 23 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:18,960 weeks to go and I think I'm still going to do 3 long runs, 24 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:22,160 including one tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes. 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,160 I know that cramming for a marathon is not for everybody 26 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,360 and it's pointing out the smartest thing to do, but only 27 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,720 you know your body so. So today's topic is like the 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,520 opposite of cramming because you have to run so many miles. 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,960 Yeah, you know, there there's something marathons and ultra 30 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:40,440 marathons I know have in common, but there's also a lot of 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,760 different approaches, right? Yeah. 32 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,920 So with an ultra marathon is obviously much longer than a 33 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,880 regular marathon. I think any time you take 34 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,960 something to an extreme, it can highlight weaknesses that you 35 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,120 can use to maybe improve on. For instance, with the pacing, 36 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,680 you might be able to get away with running a marathon without 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,600 pacing yourself that well, especially you 'cause you've run 38 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,080 so many of them and you've done them without pacing much. 39 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,919 But in an ultra marathon that would be more difficult 'cause 40 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,000 you could overwhelm yourself and then not end up finishing. 41 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,480 And so I think that the take home would be that you can use 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,760 pacing or be more strict about certain things that might help 43 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,440 improve your marathon times. And that could happen with any 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,640 of any of your topics that you're going to go over. 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,080 Yes, and the topics that I do want to go over is exactly that. 46 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,400 Pacing is one of them. So what? 47 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,400 What can you learn from ultra runners that you can incorporate 48 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,000 into your marathon training? Yes, I did some research, right 49 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,480 and I came across some information that might be 50 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,320 helpful. Obviously that's with big 51 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,840 asterisks. There's a lot that goes into 52 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,040 ultra training just like with marathon training. 53 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,960 But to just condense it for the purpose of this quick 54 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,160 conversation we were having pre interview, I found four 55 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,560 takeaways for marathoners when it comes to these ultras. 56 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,720 And they are pacing control, fueling, flexibility, mental 57 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,640 toughness and endurance from time on your feet. 58 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,000 And just to hop into that very briefly, we can learn from ultra 59 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,120 runners how to conserve energy because they can't approach a 60 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,920 race the way we approach a race. They don't, you know, go to a 61 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:25,320 Fife can start running all out because if they do that, they 62 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,360 risk the they risk not finishing their race. 63 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:34,080 Adopting a similar approach in marathons would help us avoid 64 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,360 burning out too early. So we could learn a lot from 65 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,400 ultra marathoners when it comes to pacing. 66 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,000 And another little something we can learn from ultra runners is 67 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,360 fueling flexibilities. Because in ultras, runners don't 68 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,880 only fuel with gels, they also fuel with real food. 69 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,480 And so they learn with that to be adaptable with nutrition. 70 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,920 And I think that could help us marathon runners too, because 71 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,680 during marathon we just eat gels. 72 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,800 But if we could be a little bit more flexible, maybe we could 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,360 learn how to maintain a more consistent energy level. 74 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,400 Yeah, I think although gels probably work fine for a 75 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,040 marathon, it might be worthwhile to experiment with other things 76 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,320 too. And you know, in general, make 77 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,360 food. Real food provides some of the 78 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,480 best nutrition. That's right. 79 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,920 And another thing that we could learn from ultra runners is a 80 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,720 lesson on mental toughness because they have to master the 81 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,480 mental resilience because at times they're facing hours of 82 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,960 discomfort running in the dark, running through the woods and 83 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,720 running where really nobody can pick them up. 84 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,280 It's almost unrelatable because I know I've had marathons where 85 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,960 I was just kind of over it and I wanted to finish. 86 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,120 And I thought, OK, if I were to quit now, I would still have to 87 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,440 go back to the starting line or finish line to grab my bag and 88 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,480 everything. And it would have been something 89 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,400 that's plausible. You can just call an Uber. 90 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,600 When you're doing an ultra, you're in the middle of the 91 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,280 woods. So that's something that's just 92 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:00,160 not possible. Somebody's going to have to 93 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,200 transport you out. And for marathons, it's almost 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,520 easier to just keep trotting. But for ultras, you have to kind 95 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,040 of change your mindset to go through those last tough miles. 96 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,920 And for that reason the the take away for marathoners, you know, 97 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,600 if you finish an ultra, you can be like, wow, I've done 100 98 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:24,480 miles, what's 26.2? Yeah, I think in general the 99 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,320 mental game of distance running is probably under emphasized in 100 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:29,800 training or at least in the past. 101 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,840 Maybe it's become more important or significant in terms of 102 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:37,240 training programs nowadays, but it's definitely a good point. 103 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,840 I think mentally, if you can, I mean, if, if you decide to do an 104 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,480 ultra marathon, it sure really would give you confidence to be 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,320 able to tackle the next marathon 'cause you think, oh, it's just 106 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,480 that much shorter. Exactly. 107 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,000 And I think that also comes with running a lot of marathons. 108 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,120 The more marathons you run, you know that the distance is 109 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,160 something that you know almost comes from muscle memory. 110 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,400 When it comes to your finishing time, though, that's a whole 111 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,400 different story. So Ryan and the last point or 112 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,560 take away that I have for runners, what we can learn from 113 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,120 ultra runners is that ultra running emphasizes on long and 114 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,000 steady runs back-to-back and having long days. 115 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,760 I feel like we already know that for marathons, the more time you 116 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,480 spend on your feet, that's going to help you. 117 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,080 So adopting a little bit of the strategy to your marathons and 118 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,520 just putting more time on your feet can definitely help you 119 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,120 build stamina and help you finish stronger. 120 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,160 Yes, it's true. So, Letty, who do you have the 121 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,160 pleasure of interviewing today? Yes. 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,240 So today's interview is going to be with Nick Golan Bielski, whom 123 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,120 I met when I did one of my shakeout runs in Miami. 124 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,960 He was traveling in from Canada. He's an ultra runner. 125 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,880 He doesn't run with a Garmin. Very interesting person. 126 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,280 And we chatted a lot about how he pursued that distance and how 127 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:57,720 he kind of fell into all of this and became a running coach for 128 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,680 marathoners and ultra runners. Sounds interesting. 129 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:02,000 I want to know what he has to say. 130 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:03,640 Do you want to get into? It sure. 131 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,880 So without any further ado, I'm now going to play our 132 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,640 conversation with Nick. All right, so I'm on here with 133 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,880 Nick Golenbioski. Nick, thank you so much for 134 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:14,520 coming on. Thank. 135 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,000 You thank you for having me. All right, so let's do a little 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,840 back story. You and I met in Miami during a 137 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,920 community run during the Nike paced run. 138 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,400 You are an ultra runner. Let's hop into your story a 139 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,640 little bit. How did you start running and 140 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,840 how did you find yourself with the ultra distance? 141 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,160 Yes, yes, awesome. So I am an ultra runner and for 142 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,960 those people who aren't aware of what that is, it's doing 143 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,800 distances of anything longer than a marathon. 144 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,720 I've been a lifelong athlete, playing football, wrestling, 145 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,760 rugby and I found myself getting into distance running around 146 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,200 2020 and I really, really wanted to find a race. 147 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,440 The only race I was able to find that wasn't virtual at the time 148 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,960 because of all the restrictions was an 80 K trail race, so A50 149 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Miller. And it wasn't really what I was 150 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,760 looking for, but it was the only race I that I saw that was, you 151 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,600 know, I was able to go there, put a bib on, have a race 152 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,560 experience was that one. So my first race a year into 153 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,240 running was a 50 Miller, and since then I've just been so 154 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,320 hooked. So let's backtrack a little bit. 155 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,120 So when did you actually start running? 156 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,200 And then prior to running this ultra distance, what were the 157 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:39,080 distances that you did? I got into running 2020, my 158 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,760 first month of like ever like running for the sake of running 159 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,680 like not, not as in just like running a lap around the field 160 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:49,760 because I did something wrong and during a football play, but 161 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,400 like going for a run because I want to go for a run, which is 162 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,560 was a foreign concept to me was in 2020. 163 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:58,360 And then in one month I did a half marathon. 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,800 And then after that I was just like, I had zero structure. 165 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,760 I didn't know what I was doing right, what I was doing wrong, 166 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,640 and I was just running whenever I felt like running. 167 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,480 And I would say probably like eight months after my first run, 168 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,200 I did the 50 Miller. Wow. 169 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:21,200 So that's, I mean, obviously you know, there is a lot of room for 170 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,680 injury and all that. So maybe tell us how, because I 171 00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:28,320 know you're a coach now, Tell us how at that time you made sure 172 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,960 that you stayed injury for your maybe you did get injured. 173 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,840 I don't there were no serious injuries. 174 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,720 Maybe I had like a little lingering pain in the Achilles 175 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,240 here and there, but nothing serious. 176 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,400 I really just think because I wasn't doing any injury 177 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,200 preventative measures like I do now. 178 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,640 Like now I'm really big into stretching, foam rolling, 179 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,840 getting a fascia, stretch therapy done to me, massage 180 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,480 therapy, osteopath. Back then I was really just 181 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,200 doing everything by feel, making sure I'm not running through too 182 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,920 much pain. Whenever I would get home, I 183 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,720 would do like a little routine like just being in a deep squat 184 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,400 and keeping my legs up like elevated on the couch, which 185 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,920 really isn't anything. But I think it was just because 186 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,920 of all the years I had either in the gym or in other sports. 187 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,640 It started me off with a really good base to to prevent 188 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,840 injuries. And was strength training 189 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,360 something that you continued on while you were running, or was 190 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,240 that something that you dropped? Because a lot of times that's 191 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,760 what happens. Yeah, once I found running, I 192 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,680 was like, oh, this is enjoyable, and time in the gym is pretty 193 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:39,320 boring. So I really stopped going to the 194 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,440 gym almost, almost entirely. Wow, wow. 195 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,360 Well, good thing you did not get injured, but all right, so the 196 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,920 reason that you found the the 50 Miller was because you didn't 197 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,680 have the, did you say 50K50 Miller? 198 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,520 50 Miller. 50 Miller was that there was no other races but 199 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,000 this besides that, I mean, it's that's pretty tanky. 200 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,320 That's two marathons. You never done a marathon before 201 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:07,600 that you done 1/2 marathon. And I can see, you know, they 202 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,880 say everything in moderation for a reason, because for some of 203 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,440 us, that's just too much. It gets boring. 204 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,000 Tell us about your training up to that and then the marathon 205 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,960 and you know what headspace you were in. 206 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Yeah. So for context, the 50 Miller 207 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,360 was called the Quebec Mega Trail. 208 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,520 So not only is it a 50 Miller, it's very mountainous, 50 Miller 209 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:35,720 where you summit two of Quebec's largest ski mountains, Mont St. 210 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:42,360 Anne and Malt Massif. So getting into the training, I 211 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,840 realized that my first month and two months I was only running on 212 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:51,280 road, so I had to learn how to run on the trails, which is 213 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,400 honestly somewhere I feel more comfortable and more attracted 214 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,000 to. Trail running felt felt very 215 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,520 exciting to me and the training had zero structure. 216 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:06,040 I just ran. When I felt like running, I'd 217 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,120 get anxious and be like, oh I need to do a long run. 218 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,800 So I'd go out and run like 30 or 40K and I did that maybe once or 219 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,800 twice a week and every other day I'd just run 1015 K, something 220 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,120 that I think is a terrible plan to do. 221 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,040 Now if I had to redo it, I would not train this way. 222 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,160 But I was really just winging it the whole way. 223 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,800 I was just winging at the start. Wow. 224 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,840 And while you were winging it, you, I mean, I guess there's 225 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,520 something to be said by running, by how you feel, listening to 226 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,960 your bodies. Why do you say it's such a bad 227 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,960 method? And what is a proper method for 228 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,000 training for A50 Miller? As most of us, you know, you 229 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,120 know, we're marathoners, half marathoners, We don't really 230 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,600 know how to approach this. Yeah, yeah. 231 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,080 So my new way of training and the way that I train my athletes 232 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,040 kind of comes from my last race that I did. 233 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,440 And I I changed up the way that I see training. 234 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:09,240 So I just did a 500 kilometre run 300 miles from LA to Vegas. 235 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,360 So I had to switch up my training style and doing this 236 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:19,040 injury free and getting a time that like I hit my goal really 237 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,440 started to make me think differently. 238 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:26,880 So I never give any workouts where I'm telling people do a 239 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,960 certain pace for a certain distance. 240 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,320 Never. I'm never saying do a 6 minute 241 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,480 pace for 10K. I'm always telling people to do 242 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,000 a certain amount of effort for a certain amount of time. 243 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,760 So do 60 to 70% of your Max heart rate for two hours. 244 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,720 Doing this style of training, like switching the variables 245 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,440 around where you're focusing on effort and time, I believe to be 246 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,080 much more calculable for what you're doing to your body during 247 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,200 this training plan and it takes a lot of stress off. 248 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,240 Personally, I stopped running with a watch completely. 249 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,880 I just know what time I start and what time I finish. 250 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,120 And because I'm doing like multiple runs a day, I find most 251 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,280 of my miles through run commuting. 252 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,680 So just if I need to go to work, I run to work. 253 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,880 If I need to go to lunch, I run to lunch and then run back home. 254 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,200 This is where I'm logging most of my miles and it's just a 255 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:25,080 healthier way for me to not be obsessed with the stats as I'm 256 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,080 training for races like even larger than the 500. 257 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,320 So I have so much to say to that for that one. 258 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,720 Well, First off, what about 10 years from now, right? 259 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,240 I mean, we all say as a joke, if it's not on Strava, it doesn't 260 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,120 count. But seriously though, if you 261 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,520 were older, when you're older and you want to look back at 262 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,760 what you did as a young man, don't you think you're going to 263 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,840 miss that data? Like, why is it not possible for 264 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,600 you to just have a watch and just upload it, but never really 265 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,040 looking at Strava? Also, you know, for mild 266 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,200 tracking purposes? And then my other question with 267 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,160 you saying you run commute. I love that, but how in the 268 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,080 world do you do that? I can't run to lunch and then 269 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:06,800 run after lunch. It's like the worst feeling in 270 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,440 the world. Yeah, the stats don't mean much 271 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,840 to me. Like all these runs that I'm 272 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,000 doing, they're more of a journey. 273 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,680 So in 10 years from now, I'm just going to know that I ran a 274 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,120 lot everyday. And I don't know, to me, it 275 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,640 doesn't matter to to look at, oh, this run I did 10 seconds 276 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,920 faster than my usual pace. Honestly, I think it would be 277 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,800 bad for me. I think if I were logging all of 278 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,680 my miles, I'd get a bit too competitive with the 279 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:38,960 leaderboards and competitive with myself and I would just end 280 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,160 up exerting too hard. And in terms of running for 281 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,640 lunch and running back, like that's just, it's what I love. 282 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,880 Like I don't want to hop in a car. 283 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,080 I don't want to order an Uber. Like I would really enjoy to run 284 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,160 there and run back. OK. 285 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,160 And all that is possible with the Canadian weather up there. 286 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,160 It gets pretty hectic sometimes. I've, I am no stranger to 287 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,800 running through snowstorms Today is it's pretty hot, so we're 288 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,560 lucky. But yeah, it, it makes you an 289 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,760 even better runner when you have all this variable weather and 290 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,040 all these crazy, crazy changes in the weather. 291 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,240 It's definitely makes you comfortable in any race day 292 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,920 scenario. I love it. 293 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,840 You have a very positive mindset. 294 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,160 So with that, maybe share with your listeners. 295 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,360 You know, we always talk about finding your why. 296 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,400 What is your reason? They say it's like a three or 297 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,160 five fold question when you keep asking yourself why have you 298 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,040 ever done that and why is it that you run? 299 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,200 Yeah. So for the 1st 50 Miller that I 300 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,720 was talking about before, I know the answer to that. 301 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:48,720 I dropped everything in my life to pursue a world where where my 302 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,480 life is revolved around running, where my careers revolved around 303 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,560 running or my day-to-day life is revolved around running. 304 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,440 I started a running coaching business. 305 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,320 I re downloaded all my social medias where I took a huge break 306 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,800 from social media to start a running account. 307 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,880 And I was telling myself like OK this is the first stepping 308 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,400 stone. No matter how much this hurts, 309 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:14,079 we need to get this done, to chase this dream life and every 310 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,920 race and every journey since then, hundred KS, 100 Millers, 311 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,599 the 300 Miller, it's always been something related to that, where 312 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,240 I'm chasing this dream life and running and completing these 313 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,680 challenges are the pedestal. I love it. 314 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,880 I love it. That's a lot deeper than you 315 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,800 know. I mean, I guess everybody has 316 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,320 their own reason, but I like that you. 317 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,480 What would trigger that? What made you want to change 318 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,040 your lifestyle? Yes, I used to be in real estate 319 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,320 and at the same time I was working in bars and clubs and, 320 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:53,200 and going out and I realized I was living a very unhealthy 321 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,720 lifestyle or I wasn't doing the sports that I used to. 322 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,800 I felt not good in my own body. And then when COVID hit and all 323 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,960 those things got taken away, I wasn't able to to go work in a 324 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,120 bar. I wasn't able to go out. 325 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,480 I found myself in in I guess what you can call a depression. 326 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,360 And I just remember hating getting out of bed every morning 327 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,480 to go to class or or to try to find a new internship. 328 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,080 And I absolutely hated the idea of what I was doing. 329 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,640 And the only thing in my entire life giving me a putting a smile 330 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,160 on my face was running. So I remember the exact day, it 331 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,400 was like February 17th. I was in the shower. 332 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,480 I just finished like having a huge breakdown crying because I, 333 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,560 I didn't know where my life was going to head was going to take. 334 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,680 And I was like, if I hate everything I'm doing in my 335 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,800 day-to-day life, I'm just going to hate my life. 336 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,160 And it was right then and there that I decided I need a restart. 337 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,480 And since running is the only thing that can be smile right 338 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,120 now, let's start off with running. 339 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,040 And then you switched your career from real estate to run 340 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,880 coaching. That always that kind of came 341 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,200 together. You were trying to find 342 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,560 something that's running related. 343 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,960 Exactly. That's cool. 344 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,080 That's that's awesome. So all right, so then you 345 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,280 started running, never looked back, right. 346 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,360 And then you started your run coaching business. 347 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:13,800 Maybe talk to us a little bit about that. 348 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,840 Yeah. So the starting of it was slow 349 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:24,680 and steady, but now ioffer run coaching for I would say an 350 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,360 intermediate runner all focusing on achieving a new personal 351 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,880 record injury free. If you're looking for someone to 352 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,840 help you Boston qualify, I'm probably not the best guy for 353 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,320 you. If you're looking to run your 354 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,960 first 50K and keep that as a lifestyle, that's something I 355 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,720 really love, people helping people out with integrating 356 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,560 running as your lifestyle. A lot of people come to me and 357 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,080 they're like, I feel like I plateaued. 358 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,480 I feel like I can't do the amount of miles I want to do 359 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,600 without getting injured. I just want to be able to run 360 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,720 1/2 marathon on a weekend and not even think about it. 361 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,720 I just want to be able to run 10K here and there and, and it's 362 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,560 not a big deal anymore. So, so doing like that, doing 363 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,960 doing things on that level is something that brings a lot of 364 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,800 happiness to me. And I coach people mainly online 365 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,400 and some in person work where I'm also a registered massage 366 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,720 therapist now. So it's awesome to be able to 367 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,520 train the person and then also help them recover by like 368 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,280 understanding what's happening inside their muscles, 369 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,280 determining what part of their body is tight, what's taking too 370 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,960 much impact, what's compensating too much, what's not working 371 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,200 hard enough, all inside of their body. 372 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,680 And that's a little glimpse of my coaching. 373 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,760 I like it. Just to follow up though, you 374 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,640 mentioned that if somebody wants to try to train for Boston, then 375 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,760 you wouldn't be the coach for them. 376 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,760 Why is that? Is that because of the pace or 377 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,680 the distance? Mostly the pace. 378 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,600 When it comes to doing something like Boston, it's very much 379 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,160 train like loading, training, peaking, performing at your 380 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,800 highest fitness level and then facing a very big decline. 381 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,800 You know, I can give you some good advice, but I'm it's just, 382 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:11,120 that's not really what sparks my interest doing the the very fast 383 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,520 marathons. Like I've never ran a Boston 384 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,200 qualifier marathon. So like a couple of my athletes 385 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,800 have, but it's just not the world of running that I'm really 386 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,880 intrigued by and and and passionate about. 387 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:28,680 Gotcha, gotcha. Great. 388 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,400 So all right, so then since we're talking about ultras, 389 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,840 let's talk a little bit more about ultra. 390 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,640 So ultras are all about testing your own personal mental and 391 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,120 physical limitations. What's your favorite part about 392 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:43,640 pushing yourself further than you thought you could? 393 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,200 Every ultra is a roller coaster, so it's hard to think of one 394 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,400 favorite part, but it's just knowing that you're going on a 395 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,600 ride, there's going to be UPS, there's going to be downs. 396 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,760 The downs are going to hurt like hell. 397 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,560 They're going to they're going to hurt so bad and the UPS are 398 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,080 going to feel like you're invincible. 399 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,640 So you just put your toes in the start line and and like, buckle 400 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,720 up for the journey all. Right. 401 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,800 Let's hop into some of those lows for us that can't relate 402 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,680 because obviously, I mean, it's very easy to DNFA road race 403 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,240 because it's not your day. You're as you said, you're going 404 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,080 for a time and it's just not there. 405 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,640 It's an easy transport back to the starting line, whereas 406 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,360 ultras are, you guys are in the mountains and you're running at 407 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,760 night time and all that stuff. And then obviously ADNF has a 408 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,880 completely different meaning because you're not going for 409 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,360 pace already, you're going for the distance and you know you're 410 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,480 going to hit those lows. So maybe tell us a little bit 411 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,160 about those lows and maybe some personal experiences with them. 412 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,400 Something that happens to me quite often, which you'd be 413 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,360 pretty surprised about, is I'll have like a 30 minute injury, 414 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,080 which is so weird. Like especially near the 415 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,000 beginning of the race. I think it's like my mind trying 416 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,320 to play tricks on me, my nerves getting a bit too big, and I'll 417 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:09,120 literally like have what feels like a strained Achilles or a 418 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,600 sprained ankle for the first like 30 minutes of a race. 419 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,840 And then once I'm able to calm myself down and get into a space 420 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,280 where I'm like, OK, I know how to run. 421 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,680 I know what I'm doing. I know this injury isn't real. 422 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,760 I just put in a 15 week training block where my ankle didn't hurt 423 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,480 at all. So it makes no sense for my 424 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,400 ankle to start hurting now. The pain vanishes and I don't 425 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,480 feel it for the rest of the entire race. 426 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,240 And that happens almost every time, which is really 427 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,000 interesting. It's called phantom pains or 428 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,360 phantom injuries. So I don't really know the 429 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,920 science behind that, but I've definitely experienced it. 430 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,600 And then getting into the lows, they can get really, really bad. 431 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,720 So what's common in all my lows is you start moving slower. 432 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,160 All the pain starts to become at the front of your mind. 433 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,200 It hurts. Maybe it's your knees, maybe 434 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,520 it's your quads, maybe that your breathing is just not working 435 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,320 the way you want it to work. But if you just keep fighting 436 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,800 through it, making sure that you're still having enough 437 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,760 calories, drinking enough water and just pushing forward, maybe 438 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,480 taking a 10 and 15 minute dirt nap, you know you're going to 439 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,440 come out of the low. 30 minute dirt nap. 440 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:28,920 I love it all right, so now from our sponsor to Fosi Optics to 441 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,640 Fosi, the brand name is the Italian word for superfan and 442 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,200 that's who they make the eyewear for their slogan is live your 443 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,520 passion. They have a ton of different 444 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,680 glasses on their website, which are anything from polarized 445 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,080 sunglasses to bike riding sunglasses. 446 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,040 Really cool designs. 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So all right, So when you are 477 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,480 experiencing those, are you able to basically detach your mind 478 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,080 from your body and look at yourself logistically and be 479 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,840 like, it's OK, Nick, just eat something? 480 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,840 Or I mean, how do you get out of that mindset that it's in the 481 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,680 forefront front so much? Yeah, it could be very difficult 482 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,440 at times. And having an amazing crew and 483 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,280 other runners around you to make you realize that this pain is 484 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,080 not permanent and that you know what you're feeling is a low, 485 00:26:58,120 --> 00:26:59,720 what you're going to feel for the rest of the race. 486 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,280 And it's possible to come out because a lot of times you're 487 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,840 feeling this low and you think you're going to feel this way 488 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,680 for the rest of the race. And it's hard to stay in this 489 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,280 mindset that I'm in right now. Be like, Oh yeah, lows and highs 490 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,880 and highs. Like when you're in that low, 491 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,720 you hate everything. You hate running. 492 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,360 You're like, why the hell did I sign up for 100 Miller? 493 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,400 And I'm only 30 miles deep and I still have so much to go. 494 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,120 So it's, it's just like realizing that that it is a 495 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,960 mindset, realizing that it's just a temporary low and, and 496 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,240 people are are really going to help you get out of that. 497 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,000 Yeah, I mean, I, I can only imagine it has to be a 498 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,000 completely different way to mentally prepare yourself for a 499 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:46,120 three, 4-5 hour race, a marathon on the road where literally 500 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:47,720 everything is an axis right there. 501 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,040 There's medical people literally right everywhere or an ultra. 502 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,960 So how do you mentally prepare yourself? 503 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,240 Is there something that you do with your athletes that you tell 504 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,880 them to do? Like you know you do something 505 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,520 hard every day or how how do you get you to get yourself prepared 506 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,280 for this? Whenever I am four to five days 507 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:15,360 away from an ultra marathon, I will switch my mindset into 508 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,880 convincing myself that I am a warrior preparing to enter into 509 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,640 a battlefield and I am going to experience the world ever felt 510 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,560 in my entire life. My legs are going to feel broken 511 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,880 four times over and really convinced myself like, OK, this 512 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,960 race is a battle. I am excited to go to battle. 513 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,840 I'm excited to feel the pain. These are all things that I 514 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,040 convinced myself to do. Not even I need to commit 515 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,960 myself, but just naturally this is what's happening. 516 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,520 Like I know it's going to hurt and I get excited for the hurt. 517 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,480 And then the night before the ultra marathon, I'll usually 518 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,200 have a couple beers and some nachos to like relax. 519 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,560 And then I wake up usually around like 2-3 AM because the 520 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,680 races always start really early and I'm off. 521 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:06,720 You know, that's, that's really interesting. 522 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,520 That's I wonder if we could translate that into a shorter 523 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,840 race distances too, just to have a tougher mind. 524 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,840 I've never heard anyone say that, but it makes makes 525 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,160 complete sense. I mean, I guess with an altar, 526 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,920 you really are going to battle against yourself and your own 527 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,600 mind. So how close? 528 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,680 I mean, have you ever DNF for a reason that was non physical 529 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,760 injury related, just mentally? And if not, then how close were 530 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,160 you to just DNF because you were just done with running? 531 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,920 I haven't DNF Ed any of my races yet. 532 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,840 It'll probably happen one day, so I can't speak too much about 533 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,760 that. I've I've had really good race 534 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,800 days basically my whole running career so far. 535 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,520 But I have two races I have 100K in two weeks and 100 Miller in 536 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,240 four weeks. So maybe one of those days I'll 537 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,800 I'll one of those races I'll I'll run on a day that's not my 538 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,920 day. I really hope you don't. 539 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,800 And you know the whole it's not my day thing. 540 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,280 I think it's easy to say that for a marathon because you can 541 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:07,880 just lay off the pace and finish it anyway. 542 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,760 But with a race like 100 Miller, you can't be 90 miles in and 543 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,600 feel crappy and say it's not my day because you're. 544 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,760 So close. You're 90 miles in, you've got a 545 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:24,280 death March unless you get cut off by like the time cut off or 546 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,240 if you're having some serious GI issues where you're like pooping 547 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240 your pants or just throwing up all over the trail. 548 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,440 If you're 90 miles in, you're walking it in, or crawling it in 549 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,120 if you have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 550 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,080 No, that makes sense. And you know, I think it's kind 551 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,520 of like people are split on the whole hitting the wall thing, 552 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,720 right? To me, during a marathon, when I 553 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,000 see mile 20, I'm not hanging a wall. 554 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000 I'm like, oh wow, it's only 6 miles. 555 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,720 Only 6 miles is like less than a daily run for me. 556 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,000 I can totally do this. Whereas other people, maybe they 557 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,560 push harder, but they're on this trouble train with that whole 558 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,080 wall thing. And then, you know, your pace 559 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,480 goes down. Whereas I feel like you should 560 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,600 be logically getting more inspired because you're really 561 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,480 close and you've already done 20 miles. 562 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,360 So I think that's it's, I think it's a lot of it a mindset 563 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,040 thing. Of course, yeah, 99 There's a 564 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:21,960 quote that goes the 90% of running is mental and the rest 565 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,720 is in your head that. Makes sense. 566 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,200 No, that that makes a lot of sense. 567 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,720 Yeah. So, OK, so let's hop into one of 568 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,800 the races that I've heard of before. 569 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,280 And I actually knew one of the founders, original founders back 570 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,320 then. It's called the Speed Project. 571 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,160 It's a race that goes from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. 572 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,440 As you said, it's about 300 miles, and usually people do it 573 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,480 in a relay. So maybe tell us about your 574 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,080 experience with this race. Yeah, so two years ago I did do 575 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,520 it in the traditional format as a relay where everyone is 576 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,920 sprinting, doing a mile, two mile, legs, tapping your 577 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,560 teammate. And then you do that for for two 578 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,200 days straight until you reach until you reach Vegas. 579 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,640 And after doing that, I felt like it wasn't enough. 580 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:14,040 I still had a craving to race in the desert and my soul. 581 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,560 So sometimes you're in the relay races, there are times where you 582 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,920 need to do longer than one to two mile legs. 583 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,280 So my longest leg was like 15 miles. 584 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,480 And that was my absolute favorite part where I was able 585 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,680 to do a really long part on my own. 586 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,000 It happened to be at night. And this is where I, I felt my 587 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,280 happiest, my truest to myself. And it was the part that drew me 588 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,000 back. So I got invited and accepted to 589 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,640 do the solo race. And like, without hesitation, I 590 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,560 applied and, and like registered signed up. 591 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,920 And it was by far like the biggest feet I, I would take on 592 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,360 before the 300 Miller. My, my Max distance was maybe 593 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,240 just over 100 miles, like 100 miles plus run commuting that 594 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,920 day. So it was very, very exciting. 595 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,680 And that whole race was was it took me 5 days and six hours. 596 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,040 It was a massive journey. I don't even know where to begin 597 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,200 about that. Yeah, well, I I'll ask you some 598 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,880 questions. So how, how does that even work 599 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,800 logistically? Did you have a team with you? 600 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,560 And who is your team? Yeah, so I did have a team with 601 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,480 me. Usually people will have an RV 602 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,280 plus a support vehicle and have around like six people helping. 603 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,960 That was not my scenario. I had one Jeep Wrangler with 604 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,760 three of my closest friends. We packed it to the rim, leaving 605 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,120 some essential materials behind just because we couldn't fit it 606 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,240 in the car. We had a tent on the roof of the 607 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,560 Jeep, which is where I would take my naps and where the crew 608 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,520 would take their naps. And for the most part they would 609 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,240 follow me or we would leapfrog where I would run for six miles 610 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,400 and then they would drive 6 miles ahead and I'd meet them 611 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,360 and then we'd we'd keep doing that every day. 612 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,080 And that's how it worked for for most of the time. 613 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,040 All right, so I'm not even going to ask about the lack of showers 614 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,960 and everything. No showering. 615 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,960 You're crew members, nobody else wanted to run, or did they maybe 616 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:25,960 run a little bit with you? Yeah, the 1st 2 days my crew 617 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,840 didn't run because there were other racers next to me and I 618 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,159 was able to run with other people. 619 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,920 And then day 3-4 and five, I always had a pacer with me 620 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,560 because that's when I started to become a bit more delusional and 621 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,639 could have taken a wrong turn. It might have been dangerous for 622 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,639 me to run alone at night. You're we're passing through 623 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:45,199 some pretty sketchy neighborhoods, so it's always 624 00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,639 safer to be with, with another person just just in case. 625 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,080 And yeah, yeah, no showers. Wow. 626 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:58,280 So, OK, so let's talk about the well, let's finish up with this 627 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,000 race first. So how many other people 628 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,000 finished solo and how did you do? 629 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,640 We were 25 at the start line. There were only four DNFS which 630 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,560 is pretty good and all four I believe was was because of 631 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,320 because of Achilles issues and I finished 13th. 632 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,680 Wow, congratulations. That's that's pretty awesome. 633 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,480 Are you going to hop into that one again? 634 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,720 I don't have any interest in redoing that exact same route a 635 00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,000 bit faster. Like it's such a big journey. 636 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,600 I'd rather dedicate like doing something to that level, like in 637 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,200 a different location. So I don't know if I would do it 638 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,400 again. A lot of people do do it. 639 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,640 If I if I were to do it again, I'd probably do it without a 640 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,680 crew and try to do it unsupported. 641 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,360 With a backpack or like. Yeah, yeah, a really big 642 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,120 backpack and maybe some like drop like set up drop bags in 643 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,880 the desert. Oh, wow. 644 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,720 OK. What about the safety? 645 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,360 What about it? OK, All right. 646 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,400 So let's talk about that safety issue as you alluded to, you 647 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,080 know sometimes especially for ultra night time, it's not just 648 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,200 people, it's also animals. What are your tips that you give 649 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:18,440 your people that you coach in regards to safety, how to stay 650 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,280 safe out there? You know, not just night time 651 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,680 people, animals, but also mountains and injuries. 652 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,280 There's there's so much that doesn't happen during marathons 653 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,120 that could potentially happen during ultras. 654 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,200 For the majority of it, if you're doing an organized race, 655 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800 like you sign up for 100 Miller and they have volunteers, they 656 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,920 have a start line, they give you a bib, you don't have much to 657 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,680 worry about there. There's really not too much bad 658 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,400 that can happen. The community is so helpful that 659 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,680 let's say you get injured on the trail, like you twist your 660 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,280 ankle, you break your ankle, you can't walk. 661 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,520 I guarantee another runner is going to come and, and, and, and 662 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,520 help you get to the next aid station. 663 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,080 So then at the aid station they can, they can ATV you off. 664 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:08,640 Obviously every Garmin has has SOS features. 665 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,280 Your iPhone has SOS features. The garment in reach is like a 666 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,360 satellite communicator. So you don't have self-service. 667 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,840 You're able to send satellite messages to your crew, to the 668 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,320 race organizer, just to anyone to be like this is where these 669 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,040 are my coordinates. I cannot I'm injured. 670 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,280 I I need help. Worst case you get a helicopter 671 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,240 to to come in and save you if you're in a really bad 672 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:32,880 situation. But for the most part, all the 673 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,240 races around the volunteers are very helpful. 674 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:42,520 The race organizers, organizers are like really on top of their 675 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,400 stuff. So you don't need to be worried 676 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,120 about being safe during a race. Like it's all taken care of. 677 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,640 So much as Roadrunners didn't know, I didn't know there was a 678 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,120 Garmin that connects to satellite. 679 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,440 So that's, that's pretty awesome. 680 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,880 All right. So I guess my last question 681 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,760 would be self discovery, personal breakthroughs. 682 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,320 What is your summary on everything that has happened to 683 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,680 you in the last four years? What did you learn for ultra 684 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,800 running and why do you recommend ultra running for runners? 685 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,440 That is an extremely loaded question. 686 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,640 I still feel like I'm a massive rookie or or at the start of my 687 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,160 journey. And even though I've ran like 688 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,560 300 miles, I don't think that's anywhere close to what I'm 689 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,680 capable of and what I'm going to do. 690 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:36,480 So for me personally, it's, it's just been such a good vehicle to 691 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,000 use to, to bring me through different stages of life and, 692 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,960 and understand myself better. Because ultra running is a time 693 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,880 and a place where you need to be brutally honest with yourself. 694 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,760 If you're feeling like shit, it's hard to convince yourself 695 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,040 that you're not and going through these highs and these 696 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,640 lows and putting yourself in very vulnerable situations like 697 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,400 your, your butt cheeks chafing like crazy or you're throwing up 698 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,440 all your food. And you, you, you just take in a 699 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,120 lot of like really good life practical stuff like being able 700 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,560 to trust your crew, being dependent on people, like 701 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,560 learning how to trust, learning how to trust yourself and, and 702 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:22,840 become dependent on yourself. There's just so much that doing 703 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,760 these extremely hard feats will teach you along the way, and for 704 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,000 me personally, it's just, it's just the start. 705 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,760 I love it. I love it. 706 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,800 It sounds like a marathon journey on steroids, so it's 707 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,280 awesome. Thank you, Nick. 708 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,720 And if people want to reach out to you, find you, etcetera, how 709 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:44,320 can they best do that? Instagram and YouTube run Nick 710 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:50,040 100K MRUNNIK 100 KM. Perfect. 711 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:51,480 And we'll link that in our show notes. 712 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,960 Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. 713 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,760 Thank you Nick for coming on and speaking with me. 714 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,440 It was a pleasure and I wish you good luck in your journey. 715 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,120 And if anyone is interested in coaching with Nick or following 716 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,080 him on Instagram, I'm going to link everything in our show 717 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,280 notes. Hopefully you guys have found 718 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,760 some use out of the information or you've gotten some motivation 719 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,680 to try new things and you can incorporate into your training. 720 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,920 That's right. And I will do that too for my 721 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,800 next marathon in 3 1/2 weeks. So all right, so thank you 722 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,200 everybody for listening to our podcast. 723 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,080 We really appreciate it. And until next week. 724 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:39,640 Have a good week of running. Thanks for tuning in. 725 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,760 For more information and marathon running news, please 726 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,640 head to www.marathonrunningpodcast.com 727 00:40:46,720 --> 00:41:02,240 and we'll be back next week. Are you looking for the perfect 728 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,240 apparel that mirrors your love for running? 729 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,600 Look no further than Run Swag, the go to store buy runners for 730 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,040 runners. From witty Tees to hoodies that 731 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,440 commemorate your marathon majors to crops that get you motivated, 732 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,920 Run Swags got you covered. Discover the perfect blend of 733 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:23,440 comfort and style. Visit www.runswag.com Runswag. 734 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,560 There's something for every runner.