1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,320 You're listening to episode 290 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,880 In this episode, we're going to talk about navigating the 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,520 marathon Blues. This is the Marathon Running 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,640 podcast with Letty and Ryan. Join us for weekly content on 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,520 all things running and let us take you from the starting line 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:29,720 to the finish line and beyond. Hey runners and welcome to 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,600 episode 290. My name is Letty and I am your 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,120 one and only host today. Thank you so much for tuning in 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,480 and if you're new, welcome. We are a weekly podcast on all 10 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:40,880 things running, including coaching and nutrition, 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,080 etcetera. And we always bring you the best 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,920 experts. So that way you know you can be 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,000 in good hands. And in this episode we're 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,320 exactly doing that. We're bringing in a run coach 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,880 who knows all about the post marathon Blues. 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,240 What are the marathon Blues? Well, that's when you run a 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,960 marathon and you are all of a sudden feeling sad because the 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,600 marathon is over or you're in a phase where you're not running a 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,040 lot. Kind of like me right now. 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Right now I'm probably averaging 20 miles a week, which is 21 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,840 drastically different from the usual 50 to 60 miles a week. 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,680 I usually like to get up and do 6 miles a day, but I have not 23 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,200 been feeling it lately. And I've been running for so 24 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,720 long that I know that this is just a phase for me and 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,480 eventually I'll get back into it. 26 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,680 But I know that some of you guys are harder on yourself, so this 27 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,000 episode is for you. Before we hop into this 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,480 interview, however, I have a quick announcement to make and 29 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,480 this is something that really, really means a lot to me. 30 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,520 So for the past six months or so, I've been working on my big 31 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,600 dream, which is I want to be a running news platform. 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,480 I have a website, the website is called Marathon journal.com. 33 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,240 Please bookmark it. And on that website you will 34 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,160 find everything that's going on in the running world, 35 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,080 specifically to long distance running marathons. 36 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,680 So you'll see running news there, but this is not where it 37 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,400 ends. We'll also have articles on 38 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,480 coaching. We'll have all the shoe reviews 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,600 that we have ever done, which you guys know we've done, and a 40 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,400 ton of reviews on YouTube. We have all those up there. 41 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,640 We have a corner on World Marathon Majors. 42 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,400 So there we discuss everything that's going on with the 43 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,360 currently 7 upcoming 8 majors, including when the dates are to 44 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,160 sign up for them, including to statistics of how many people 45 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,640 get in, tricks and tips of how to get in, etcetera, and some 46 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:21,280 other categories such as inspirational stories, training, 47 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,400 health, and nutrition. So go check out this website. 48 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,360 My absolute dream would be kind of to become like Runners World. 49 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,880 Obviously that's a big dream, but hear me out. 50 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,960 Runners World was great or is great. 51 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,040 I feel for the print version, but when it comes to the online 52 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,640 version, I don't feel like Runners World updates frequently 53 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,120 enough. And I'm also not a pretty 54 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,880 subscriber, so maybe I'm missing something there, but that's what 55 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,160 I'm trying to do. I'm trying to have this online 56 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,760 platform that is marathonjournal.com where you 57 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,800 can find the latest trending news. 58 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,280 And yeah, so I invite all of you guys check it out. 59 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,120 I haven't really launched it yet, but I'm inviting you guys 60 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,440 to join for the soft launch and I'm going to leave it at that. 61 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,760 I'm always, always open to constructive criticism. 62 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,880 So if you want to shoot me a message via Instagram at this 63 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,880 point, or you can do it through the portal on 64 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,760 marathonjournal.com. There is a contact page and you 65 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,440 can leave your feedback. And I absolutely welcome that. 66 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,000 But that's enough about my newest endeavor that hopefully 67 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,960 will take off and we're going to hop into Marathon Blues. 68 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,040 The topic of Marathon Blues, like I said, we're going to have 69 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,400 Coach Todd on and I'm going to play that conversation for you 70 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:33,720 now. All right, so we're back on with 71 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,760 Coach T Todd. Thank you so much for joining us 72 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,000 again. Awesome to be here lady. 73 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,400 Excited. Yes, me too. 74 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,640 And we are doing a very timely talk about post marathon and 75 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,920 offseason Blues. And before we hop into that, let 76 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,720 me know what inspired you to create this presentation that 77 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,080 you sent me on post marathon and this whole offseason Blues. 78 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,160 Yeah. Well, you know, it's 79 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,480 interesting. I've been coaching for several 80 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:05,600 years and, you know, have encountered this quite a bit 81 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,680 with my athletes where, you know, after the big event, it's 82 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,920 just this downtime, you know, they just feel off, sometimes 83 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,240 depressed, you know, What's next? 84 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,600 And then that's sometimes coincided with, you know, the 85 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,160 weather changes, the the days get shorter, etcetera. 86 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,720 So I guess, you know, that has always been in the back of my 87 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,400 mind. But then, you know, about six 88 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,600 weeks ago I ran, you know, a marathon. 89 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,000 So I got to experience it, you know, first hand. 90 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,960 You know, obviously you got the high of race day and lead lead 91 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,680 up and then, you know, the day after and then, you know, you're 92 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:48,640 flying back home and it's like now what, you know, I'm, I'm 93 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,600 still really sore. What's ahead is getting colder. 94 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,080 You know, it just kind of get that feeling. 95 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,320 I'm just kind of bummed out. I'm like, I just this high is 96 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,760 just starting to go away. And, and so it kind of left me 97 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,360 kind of anxious. So I thought, hey, I do my smart 98 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,920 Academy zoom calls with my, my smart approach team on a regular 99 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,240 basis. And I thought, hey, this would 100 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,280 be a great time for that. So I had a couple of those calls 101 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:17,480 over the last few weeks and yeah, it was a hot topic and 102 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,080 it's a real topic and my runners kind of let out their emotions. 103 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,960 And so, yeah, I think it's it's a great time to talk about it 104 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,000 with you, lady. That is awesome. 105 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,560 I love that you did that for your runners. 106 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,360 And I'm also very lucky to have been the recipient of your 107 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,560 slideshow and kind of looked through it and in there you say 108 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,440 that almost every runner experiences that big emotional 109 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,240 dip after the race. Why is that let down so common 110 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,720 you think? Yeah, from my experience, I 111 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,400 think it's probably, you know, three out of four runners, you 112 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,640 know, it affects in AI guess you could say a negative way. 113 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:57,400 There is always that runner that it's like, I'm glad it's over. 114 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,920 I I'm happy just, you know, resting and doing nothing for 115 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,080 2-3 weeks and just I'm going to replenish and eat and like, it's 116 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,160 just a different mindset, which I think is actually a, a pretty 117 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,000 healthy mindset to just don't worry about things. 118 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,960 Let the body heal. Let the body replenish, 119 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,040 etcetera. But I think 3 out of four are 120 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,920 affected in some way and, and a percentage of those are 121 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,080 affected, you know, in a, in a very significant way where 122 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,800 they're literally depressed and, and unhappy. 123 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,560 And then there's some probably like me where it didn't get to 124 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,720 an extreme level, but it was just kind of, you know, it had 125 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,440 an effect on me to where, Hey, I think I, we should talk about 126 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,200 this on the zoom calls. But I think it's part about, 127 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,320 it's so common because, you know, running and training is 128 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,240 just part of our identity. You know, it's what, you know, 129 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,160 we, we're in a mode of on a daily basis where life is 130 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,560 somewhat affected. You know, when you get up in the 131 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,600 morning, you plan around your work, your kids, your recovery 132 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,440 and, and you're, you're feeling and, and there's so much into 133 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,080 that routine. And then the big day comes and 134 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,360 it's over and it's like, well, I don't, I'm not doing much here 135 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,960 this week. Well, I don't need to eat like I 136 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,520 normally do. I don't need to do my 137 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,360 electrolytes and my drinking. So, so we're kind of lost, you 138 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,960 know, you get that, that everything is just so loud and, 139 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,640 and excitement. And then suddenly there's this 140 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,480 quieter stillness and we're just like, now what? 141 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,320 So it's all normal. It's all normal feelings. 142 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:29,920 I love it. OK perfect. 143 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,160 And I know that you are very into research and the science 144 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,560 behind all of that, so maybe you can explain that science behind 145 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,200 why we feel off after. Yeah, you know, not to get too 146 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,400 technical, but I, I think, you know, our, our body is, you 147 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,600 know, I mean, it's amazing on so many levels. 148 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,200 If you think about all the, the systems that have to kind of 149 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,720 communicate with each other and the organ structures and muscles 150 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,960 and tendons and sexual nervous system and all that stuff. 151 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,480 But you know, from a simplistic standpoint, you know, when we're 152 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,720 in training, we're breaking down to a certain extent. 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,960 You know, we do increase our training load in the build up, 154 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,760 you know, specifically to a marathon or or a longer 155 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,640 endurance event. And, and that breakdown occurs, 156 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,200 you know, physically from the muscle structure, the bones, the 157 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,160 organs, the endocrine system, everything is getting stressed. 158 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,480 And then also there's a mental component too. 159 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:36,000 I mean, we're in hormonally where we're almost in a fight 160 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,640 and flight response for a multiple period of weeks and 161 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,400 leading up to that, that plan, we're just this overload of 162 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,520 excitement. And, and the chemicals, you 163 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,200 know, the feel good chemicals like dopamine and serotonin, 164 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,440 some of these things are just endorphins. 165 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,640 They just make you feel so good or you do a long run. 166 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,680 It feels great. You had a great training week. 167 00:08:55,680 --> 00:09:00,640 You just feel just feel so good. And then there's, you know, the 168 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,280 negative hormones to like cortisol, which kind of the 169 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,080 stress hormone where it's like, oh man, I trained so hard. 170 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,280 I'm so tired, I can't sleep. So there's, you know, some 171 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,480 imbalances there, but but there's a strong hormonal push 172 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,840 during training as well. And and so when the big day is 173 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,640 over, your body is just like that fight or flight is not 174 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:30,080 suddenly, you know, tamed and it's part of a reset it it's all 175 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,040 normal physiologically. You know, we need that, that 176 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,840 time to kind of get our chemistry back in order. 177 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,960 You know, there's kind of a, a, a sympathetic nervous system 178 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,360 overload and training where there's just this excitement and 179 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,720 high and hormones. And then afterwards the 180 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,560 parasympathetic system kind of kicks in to try to rebalance. 181 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,400 And the parasympathetic is called the rest and digest part 182 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,200 of the nervous system. And that's all about just, you 183 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,760 know, kind of replenishing and being laid back and letting the 184 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,720 body heal. And but up here that sometimes 185 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:09,720 does not connect. So that's the the off feeling is 186 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,840 we're going from this extreme high to to this essentially kind 187 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,600 of a low feeling. And then it just takes some time 188 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,720 to get that reset. Yes, yes, yes. 189 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,720 And in your slides you described this period as the body and 190 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,920 nervous system basically recalibrating. 191 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,320 Can you explain what that process looks like physically? 192 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,040 Yeah. You know, physically I think you 193 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,040 look at I guess in two ways, you do have the training build up. 194 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,320 So, you know, most runners are, you know, depending on their 195 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,800 level and fitness going into a training block for a marathon. 196 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,200 Those who are extremely fit going into it tend to be less 197 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,600 broken down through the training cycle if they're coached 198 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,640 properly. So I think there is the, the, 199 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,880 the breakdown from training. So I think you get to marathon 200 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,240 day and obviously there's a taper or replenishment period 201 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,760 where you're trying to go into the big day feeling good, but 202 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,760 you still have accumulated a lot of stress over those previous 203 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,080 weeks that you need to take into account after the big day is 204 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,680 completed. And then obviously the day of 205 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:23,640 the event is a major stress. You know, 26.2 miles, most of us 206 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,120 aren't running that in training. And if we are running 20 miles, 207 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,680 22, it's generally not at a pace you will be running the marathon 208 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,760 at. So, so race day is a significant 209 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,280 stress to the body, to the muscles, the tendons, the 210 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,080 connective system, the endocrine system, the central nervous 211 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,640 system, the organs. There's a lot of stress that 212 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,560 goes on that big day. So that combined with the 1620 213 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:54,280 week training cycle leads to that period of time where we 214 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,480 physically just need to let our body heal over the next week or 215 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,760 weeks. You know, in most cases it takes 216 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,920 four to six weeks to 100% fully recover from a marathon training 217 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,040 cycle and the event itself. So. 218 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,320 Well, that's a long time. I didn't realize that, but it 219 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,840 makes sense if you look at how the elites train and how much 220 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,120 time they take off after they do their marathon. 221 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,600 But what about mentally? What does this recalibration 222 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,480 look like mentally? Forerunners. 223 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:26,840 Yeah, I think, you know, when we're in training, there's this 224 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:32,520 powerful pull, it's the anticipation, anticipation of 225 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,640 race day. And then we talk about it in 226 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,920 training and there's a countdown and, and mentally it's just, 227 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,760 it's just keeps us going. It's just such a high to think 228 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,720 about the big day. And then there's nerves that 229 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,720 come with it. You want the race to go great. 230 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,200 But you know, mentally, you know, we're kind of geared into 231 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:57,080 the structure leading up to the big day and then you have the 232 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,440 race, it's done and then suddenly you're without 233 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,400 structure, at least for a period of time. 234 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Most runners should not be going into a training cycle. 235 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,200 You know, the week of the week after the marathon or even two 236 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,400 or three weeks after. There has to be a period of just 237 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,320 more downtime doesn't mean not you're not moving. 238 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,600 So I think mentally you have to put yourself in a place and it's 239 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,000 nice to do that even before to say, Hey, I have to accept, you 240 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,960 know, what's going to go on after the event. 241 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,000 So mentally you just have to have that reset. 242 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,840 I think it's also a good time to reflect, you know, that week 243 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,720 after, you know, mentally it's kind of like, don't just be 244 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,800 bummed that you can't be training now. 245 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,680 Just let's reflect on the year, you know, what have you 246 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:44,800 accomplished? I think that's good for the 247 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,320 mental state that you know what, I ran 2 marathons this year. 248 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,280 I've had my personal best 5 Ki did well in this marathon. 249 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,280 So I think that helps kind of buffer some of the the down 250 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,280 period of what you're feeling that week after or weeks after 251 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,840 just, you know, try to reflect and then at some point which 252 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,920 we'll talk about, we can think about, you know, what's ahead. 253 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,000 OK, Yep, that makes a lot of sense and I'm sure everyone can 254 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,960 relate to that. From the material provided me 255 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,600 with. One of my favorite parts is 256 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,040 where you talk about the runner's identity being tied to 257 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,240 training. So why do you think so many 258 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,640 runners feel guilt or anxiety when they take that time off? 259 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,920 Yeah. I mean, I think the first thing 260 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,880 that will come up and runners will immediately say is, well, 261 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,080 jeez, if I take a week or two off, I'm going to lose 262 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,320 everything. I'm going to lose my fitness. 263 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,800 And, and part of that is, is compounded from the fact that 264 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,680 during the replenishment or taper period, you know, the 265 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,040 couple of weeks before you're, you're kind of cutting back on 266 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,400 training. You know, some people have a 267 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,560 problem with that thinking I'm cutting back. 268 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,440 I'm not going to go into the race as fit as I was 2-3 weeks 269 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,360 ago until you have a conversation with your coach or 270 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,120 you do some research and realize the importance or the, the 271 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,720 rationale around that. But I think the biggest feeling 272 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,840 of guilt is just people just get out of their routine and they 273 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,480 get anxious. There's a a healthy and 274 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,960 sometimes unhealthy dependency on running as a fix to get 275 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:24,160 people through day-to-day life. I think we can all relate in 276 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,360 some regard, in some ways, in a healthy way, in some ways, maybe 277 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,960 in a non healthy way. So I always have a little bit of 278 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:36,840 a problem where when someone says they can't not run and it's 279 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,800 like I always encourage, you know, even on the presentation 280 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,360 is, is trying to find other things too that you can develop 281 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,200 this dependency on or this fix, whether it be weight training or 282 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,520 going for a walk or a bike ride to where, you know, we're in the 283 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,960 world of running where sometimes 365 days a year we can't run for 284 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,160 many reasons. Could be life events, could be 285 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,120 injury. So there has to be something to 286 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,440 fall back on, so. So I think we don't like 287 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,920 something being taken away. And when I'm programming for my 288 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,720 athletes, it's like you essentially take away a week or 289 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,640 two of running and it's not a good feeling for them. 290 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,960 Yeah, I mean, given the endorphins that you get from 291 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,680 when you do run and and all the positivity, and I know I'm one 292 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,480 of the people I could do much better with strength training. 293 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,680 But the fact that when you're running, you're sweating and you 294 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,280 actually feel like you did something, it's just so it's 295 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,640 addictive, right? Running is so unique and I'll 296 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,520 have that conversation with other runners where a non runner 297 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,240 just doesn't understand and I and maybe competitive bikers get 298 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,680 that feeling too. Obviously I I bike, but I'm not 299 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,800 a biker, so I don't quite get that feeling from biking. 300 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,240 And I've always been a lifelong weight lifter. 301 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,680 So that would probably be the closest because I've always 302 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,240 enjoyed lifting and, and the feeling because you can feel 303 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,280 lifting and getting that pump where that kind of correlates to 304 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,960 some of the feelings you might get as a runner where you're out 305 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,319 there and you're just, you know, the endorphins and you're just, 306 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,079 you know, taking in the environment, the air, the feel 307 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:15,040 good. But yeah, I truly believe 308 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:20,040 running is very unique in that way that us runners can all 309 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,480 relate and bond in a certain way. 310 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:28,280 But I also do do feel like it's healthy to open up your horizons 311 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,240 and learn to do some other stuff that also can make you feel 312 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,520 good. Yeah, super important. 313 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,240 We'll all work on that. But basically you're emphasizing 314 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,880 that REST doesn't mean regression. 315 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,520 And why is this rest actually a reset that's essential for long 316 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,680 term progress. Maybe you can explain that so we 317 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,880 can be more motivated to take that rest. 318 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:55,200 Yeah, and rest is a is a term that sometimes it gets confused 319 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,800 like rest people think, well, I'm not going to do anything but 320 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,920 And the true definition of rest from a least from a running code 321 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,760 standpoint or even exercise Physiology background doesn't 322 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,480 mean sitting around on your couch 24 hours a day or laying 323 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,840 in your bed. I think that goes back to maybe 324 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,680 the medical community of bed rest or rest and being in bed 325 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,720 kind of correlate. So, you know, rest can mean 326 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,720 movement and I think that's really part of the healing 327 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:30,000 process post marathon is you continue to move, but not in a 328 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,400 way that is destructive or will affect your recovery. 329 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:38,720 So I mean, we can look at, you know, a full year where there's 330 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,040 periods of time where, you know, we're training for different 331 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,360 events. You know, some people may have 332 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:47,360 one big event during the year, some people have two or three or 333 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,200 some smaller ones in there. But I think it's healthy. 334 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,040 When I look at my athletes, we're always trying to have a 335 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,240 periodization process where there's build UPS, you know, 336 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,000 emotionally, physically to this big event. 337 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,520 And then there also has to be a downtime where you let the body 338 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,760 reset. Part of that is the healing 339 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,560 process, and that's a physical reset. 340 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,800 It's a mental reset. You can't be in that fight or 341 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,720 flight response or that high, you know, month after month 342 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,520 after month after month after month, because it's going to 343 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,960 lead to burnout and, and higher cortisol levels and more stress 344 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,560 and, and, and then you're kind of missing out on, you know, 345 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,720 sometimes you got to go a little lower so that that high feels 346 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,160 better again, 16 weeks later, 20 weeks or whatever that goal 347 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,160 event is. So, so resting is movement. 348 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,920 Movement is part of the recovery process. 349 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,320 There has to be a downtime from the standpoint of physiological. 350 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,560 We just can't keep stressing the systems at a high level. 351 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,000 So that rest period, let's say right after a marathon, 352 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,720 typically, I usually recommend at least a week of no running 353 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,240 with my athletes to let some of those structures just kind of 354 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,400 heal. And then, you know, it's almost 355 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,560 like a reverse taper. And then you slowly build back 356 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,760 up, adding some miles over the next three to four weeks. 357 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,800 And then so that's on a little more localized level around that 358 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,280 event. But like I said, throughout the 359 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,800 year, there has to be periods of downtime where you let the body 360 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,760 just reset and heal up. OK, perfect. 361 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,800 And you mentioned burnout, so I'm going to piggyback on to 362 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,080 that. How does a runner know whether 363 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,400 they're really dealing with offseason Blues or post race 364 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,120 Blues, or if it's a feeling of burnout? 365 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,320 Yeah, I think there's some the physiological things that will 366 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,120 occur. I mean, true signs of of 367 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,400 overtraining or burnout is you really start losing your 368 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,880 motivation to not only run, but it could be, you know, gosh, 369 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,800 it's hard for me to get up. I'm just not sleeping well, more 370 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,520 restless at night. Maybe you're more irritable 371 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,160 around your family or crabby or so there. 372 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:06,160 There's some physiological things that occur, I think. 373 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,400 And then what makes that worse is you feel less motivated, 374 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,160 You're tired, you know, fatigue, soreness, I mean, those are all 375 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,160 signs. They just don't feel like you're 376 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,520 recovering from run to run or maybe after that marathon, 377 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,320 you're 2 weeks out and it's like, why am I still sore and 378 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,400 irritable and, and I'm just beat up? 379 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,480 And so those are some physiological signs that you 380 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,240 know, something is off, whether it be, you know, from a 381 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,880 musculoskeletal standpoint, central nervous system 382 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:40,600 standpoint, hormonally, I think you, you just kind of feel flat 383 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,360 and just off. And, and really the best way to 384 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:46,320 get through that is just more time. 385 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,120 It's not going out and forcing more stress on your body like 386 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,400 runs. Maybe it's, hey, I just need to 387 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,520 go for some walks or some easy bike rides or elliptical. 388 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,320 I think that would be the healthy way of doing things 389 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,280 versus just trying to force their way back into a running 390 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,800 routine. I like that, yeah. 391 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,160 And so I guess then for someone that realizes they're really 392 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,120 struggling, what would be the very first thing you recommend 393 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,760 to break out of this funk? Would that be what you just 394 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,040 mentioned just to move more or how do you get back into that 395 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:22,560 main? Routine. 396 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,640 I think the biggest thing is to try to maintain some sense of 397 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,760 structure because you know, we've gone gone through the 398 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,400 training block where every day we got to do this run and this 399 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,440 is my off day Mccutch training. So I think even really starting 400 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,480 with the next day or two after maybe the next day you really 401 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,840 rest where it's like I don't really need to do anything other 402 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,560 than normal movement and you know, going for a walk. 403 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,040 But I think as soon as you can get back on your routine and 404 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,560 doesn't mean your routine of running, it could mean your 405 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,920 routine of activity. Maybe you after a day or two, 406 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,200 you sleep in a day or two just to kind of get your sleep back. 407 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,360 And then it's like, all right, I'm still going to get up at 408 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,320 5:00 AM instead of run, I'm going to go for a walk. 409 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,160 I'm going to go to the gym and just, you know, hop on the 410 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,760 elliptical or bike and just go easy, no stress. 411 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:18,200 So I think getting back into that routine is very key versus 412 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,080 just getting into that funk or I don't want to do anything. 413 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,760 So kind of force yourself to get into that routine, but a no 414 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:29,680 stress routine. And then I also think if you're 415 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,000 feeling pretty good post marathon and you know, you've 416 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,960 probably been there already where the next day is like, oh, 417 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,040 Harley, Harley ran. And then the other marathon is 418 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,640 like, man, I'm just beat and beat up. 419 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,360 Where you may react differently to each different event. 420 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,280 But if you, if you come out of it feeling pretty good, I think 421 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,680 a nice little short term goal is, you know, I'm not feeling 422 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,280 good, but I need my next fix and it might be a 5K in 2-3 weeks or 423 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,640 a Turkey Trot. I think that's a good way to 424 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,920 kind of break that funk is find a little short term goal that 425 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,000 you're going to heal up in 2-3 weeks. 426 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,440 A 5K isn't going to wreck you, you know, a few weeks after the 427 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,640 marathon and it will kind of kind of be that little 428 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,080 transition from maybe a longer break. 429 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,680 It's like, Hey, I'm just going to mix in a, a race here to make 430 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,520 me feel good because you know what? 431 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,560 My, my marathon pace, I feel like I'm just kind of cruising 432 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,640 along, not running fast. But if I go do A5 Ki can run a 433 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200 fast pace and that's cool. So that sometimes can get you 434 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,000 fired up to, to go to sign up for a race. 435 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,200 So that's kind of what I recommend. 436 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,480 Yeah, and I saw that you also in your material you offer 437 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,600 strategies obviously for athletes to cope. 438 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,920 One of them was little fun races, mini goals, cross 439 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,160 training. In your experience, which one of 440 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,000 these tend to make the biggest difference for most runners? 441 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,720 I. Think in We're all unique. 442 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,080 Our offseasons are unique. You know, 1 runner might be in 443 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,240 the offseason or post marathon. Maybe they were under trained 444 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,880 and it's a period of time where hey, I just need to build some 445 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,280 base fitness. Just need to build some miles up 446 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,640 over these next 6 to 12 weeks. The next person might feel great 447 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,520 and I'm gonna sign up for a couple of races while my fitness 448 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,360 is is high. I really think that's a key one 449 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:25,000 lady, because we just love to show up and race. 450 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,720 So it kind of keeps that marathon high going on a little 451 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,880 bit longer. It's a little tougher where I 452 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,840 live, you know, after shoveling 6 inches of snow yesterday, 453 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,200 probably I'm not going to be finding a race next weekend. 454 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,600 So you have that limited window of depending when your fall 455 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,520 marathon is to try to squeeze in a race or two, 5K Turkey Trot. 456 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,240 So I think that that works well. And I think too, just to kind 457 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,440 of, you know, think about what you might need to work on, you 458 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,640 know, just kind of you, you reflect from the previous months 459 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,240 and then you start to think about going forward in the six 460 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,560 to twelve week black. You know, maybe I just need to 461 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,760 dedicate myself to more strength in addition to running the 5K in 462 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,600 two weeks or, you know, build miles. 463 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,280 Maybe, Hey, I'm feeling phenomenal. 464 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:17,920 I'm not doing a marathon for six months. 465 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,040 I'm going to, you know, I may talk with an athlete. 466 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:25,080 Let's let's work on a 5K10K speed block of 6 to 8 weeks to 467 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,880 really work on that speed endurance so that when you start 468 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,440 the next marathon training plan, you're in a better place, you 469 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,760 know, with that part of your Physiology. 470 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,600 So I think it's unique to the athlete and you know, that's 471 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,640 obviously one of the benefits of having a coach to, to go over 472 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,480 some of that stuff with each individual athlete, but and be 473 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,480 there for them. I think, you know, I tell my 474 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,480 athletes, you know, obviously have a team, rely on my my team 475 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,720 and the other athletes as a community, you know, do some 476 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,920 texting. I have an inner circle where we 477 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,480 can communicate. So I think having that community 478 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,120 and communication helps kind of if we can kind of talk to each 479 00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,240 other, which we did on the smart Academy zoom call too. 480 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,280 It just kind of helps you work through that period of time. 481 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,600 So. Yes. 482 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,440 And on that note, big shout out to anyone that lives up north. 483 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,040 I didn't even think about that when I was drafting my questions 484 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,360 because I live in Florida. And you know, you did talk in 485 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:28,520 your material about winter being a foundational season. 486 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,600 And I think that's really difficult because I think if I 487 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,320 lived up north, I would just skip winter training altogether. 488 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,720 But there's a reason that you train through that, right? 489 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,480 So maybe you can explain why winter training is so important 490 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,760 for breaking through later in the year. 491 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,840 Yeah, for sure. It's, you know, this is one 492 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,200 thing, you know, working with some high school athletes too, 493 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,040 It's, it's, you know, they have cross country season or track 494 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,600 season, especially the, the endurance event athletes where 495 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,440 it's like, well, it's offseason where they just feel like I 496 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,080 don't need to run. And, and it's like, no, I mean, 497 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,880 this is how you get better year to year. 498 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,000 And, and my passion is developing runners. 499 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,640 So I always accentuate how important the offseason is from 500 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,040 a consistency standpoint because every mile essentially kind of 501 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,760 goes into your aerobic bank account that has some benefit 502 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,440 later on. So this so-called offseason or 503 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:28,680 even post marathon, you know, time is not about not doing 504 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,600 anything. It it's about working on some 505 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,800 weaknesses, But you're still running, you're still training. 506 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,800 Each individual athlete might have a slightly different 507 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:41,040 emphasis or goals, but during that time, you know, typically 508 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,960 there's a less intensity. I, I, I'm never a believer in 509 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,080 just, oh, just run easy for the next three months. 510 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,040 You know, I, I think we need to stay in touch with all of our 511 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,040 paces, you know, from, you know, the various threshold paces and 512 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,600 critical velocity and 5K pace and faster paces. 513 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,960 I do that with my athletes year round, but at a much different 514 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,200 intensity or volume standpoint and where it's not so stressful. 515 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,040 And there's also no essentially no build up or progression like 516 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,080 you would during a marathon training cycle. 517 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,080 So but yeah, the foundation, the, the offseason is about 518 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,280 consistency. So you work on some things that 519 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,920 that you might be weaker on so that when you go into the next 520 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,720 training block, you're kind of ahead of the game. 521 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,520 And again, my, my focus is always on growing runners. 522 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,280 So if I find people are in a funk, I'm, you know, give them a 523 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,960 little kick in the butt and talk about how important this part of 524 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,520 the the season is. Because if you're taking three 525 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:51,320 months off every year, you're essentially buffering or not 526 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,000 making progress from what you did the previous nine months. 527 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,360 So only time you should be taken off is if you physically can't 528 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:04,000 run and from a injury standpoint or a medical condition, but 529 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,880 elsewise you need to be out there. 530 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,920 Yes, perfect. And I guess with that when a 531 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,920 when should a runner actually start thinking about big goals? 532 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,680 Because we've talked about little goals and things they can 533 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,720 do, but what when should they restart to think about 2026 534 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,560 goals and what kind of goal should be they be considering? 535 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,360 Yeah, I think, you know, right after race day, there's almost a 536 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,320 panic mode. There might be somebody like, Oh 537 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,320 my God, that felt so good. I'm going to next day. 538 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,880 I'm going to look for the next event because I'm on such a high 539 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,000 that I need to do this while I'm high. 540 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,880 And that's OK. You know, from a curiosity 541 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,000 standpoint, I do think maybe give yourself some time to 542 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440 recalibrate, you know, let that high wear off a little bit. 543 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,560 You know, maybe three days later, it's like, man, I'm still 544 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,600 sore. Maybe I don't want to do 3 545 00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:00,080 marathons next year, you know, You know, I think it's a time 546 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,480 period where just let your body, you know, recover a little bit, 547 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,880 you know, reset, let's essential nervous system, you know, all 548 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,160 these things. Just take a little time and then 549 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,120 a week or two or even a month or two after you know, the big 550 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,600 event, think about what I like to, and this is nice for my 551 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,440 athletes who to think about what excites you like what what will 552 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,480 excite you in 2026. It might be I can't wait to run 553 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,160 two more marathons. I got to find them. 554 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,280 Let's go. Or it could be, oh man, I ran 555 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,880 two this year and that might have been too much, but I've 556 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,640 always really wanted to improve my 5K time. 557 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,480 So I think that'll be the focus in the spring. 558 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,720 And then that also may help me then for my, my fall marathon. 559 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,920 So think about what might excite you. 560 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,480 I do think having those goals are important, setting them at 561 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,880 the right time. I do year end calls with my 562 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,120 athletes, you know, started those already. 563 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,760 And we'll be doing those over the next month or so where we 564 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,440 talk about, you know, these very topics of what excites you what, 565 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,320 what motivates you going into the next year. 566 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,600 And there's a couple that already are locked into world 567 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:13,680 majors or or some things already Boston or whatever that already 568 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,560 are part of the plan that I'm aware of. 569 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,720 But we also talked more broad range to, you know, after the 570 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,800 spring or the fall or hey, where you want to be in in two years. 571 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,000 I think that's all healthy to keep us motivated, do things 572 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,560 that excite us, compete in events that excite us and and 573 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,760 train in a way that excites us. I mean, I think that, and as a 574 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,480 coach, that's what, you know, motivates me is how do I keep it 575 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,680 fun for my athletes, keep them excited for the goals ahead, and 576 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,920 I just think that's part of a healthy process. 577 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,480 I love this and I love your advice on this. 578 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,000 And as a coach, I'm wondering, have you found that a lot of 579 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,200 times, however, with the world majors constantly selling out 580 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,400 and most races being so difficult to get in that the 581 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,080 runners almost don't really have as much of A choice as they 582 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560 maybe would like to? Because if you apply for Tokyo 583 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,200 and you get in, you better go take that trip because otherwise 584 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,800 you're not going to make it in the next year. 585 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,840 Yeah, I think you know, world, you know, world majors are a 586 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,400 challenge to get into, not only from obviously you need to be 587 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,960 either very fit. I mean, there's just a small 588 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,280 percentage of athletes that can qualify for some of these, you 589 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,000 know, races. I was in New York, Chicago, 590 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,400 Boston, where you have to be running some pretty fast times, 591 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,520 which the majority of marathoners just can't do. 592 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,040 So that is a challenge. And obviously sometimes there's 593 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,320 obviously you go get into a lottery or fundraising and other 594 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,200 ways too. And I think, you know, that's a 595 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,560 percentage of runners, probably a smaller percentage of runners 596 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,120 who want to do those, those bigger events. 597 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,320 But then even some of the other ones that tend to, you know, 598 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,520 maybe sell out. Like, you know, I did Detroit 599 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,200 Free Press and and I signed up quite early, but that's that's 600 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,520 sold out. You know, I'd feel my runners on 601 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,400 my team that wanted to do it. And it's like, well, jeez, you 602 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,199 know, it's sold out. So it's become a little bit more 603 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,320 with the popularity of marathoning where we have to 604 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,880 kind of be on the ball and, and plan a little bit sooner versus 605 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,960 boy, you know, it's a month or two away. 606 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,120 I'm just going to sign up. So I think that's why at the end 607 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,840 of this year, early next year, we really need to, you know, 608 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,159 kind of be on the ball and have a game plan. 609 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,480 Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Well, I guess my last question 610 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,520 for you is going to be what is the main message that you want 611 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,920 every runner to take away from this conversation and from the 612 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,120 material that I got to read from your Zoom meeting with your team 613 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,400 about post race and offseason Blues? 614 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:52,400 Yeah, I think, you know, we're so tied into training and the 615 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,880 euphoria around training and feeling good and wanting our 616 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,400 runners high and, and competing and or the big event. 617 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,480 I think we all just need to kind of step back and understand 618 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,240 that, that it's completely normal to have an offseason, 619 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,200 normal to maybe feel down after a big race or, or the season 620 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,160 being done or the weather change, the shorter days, it's 621 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,400 more dark. It's it's part of this is normal 622 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:26,760 and it kind of I think it works out naturally in a way that is 623 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,120 healthy for us. You know, it's hey, it's like 624 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,000 just like there's seasons and weather, you know, there's 625 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,120 seasons and, and training too from a running standpoint. 626 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,080 So I think it kind of works out fine that hey, maybe Mother 627 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,480 Nature's telling us the days are getting shorter, it's darker, 628 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,120 we're not feeling as good. That's a good time for us to 629 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,800 kind of, you know, accept it and, and go along with the flow 630 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:55,200 that, hey, it's OK to feel a bit down, but it's, it's temporary, 631 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,240 it's normal. And, and, and that's part of 632 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,360 being a healthy, resilient runner is to accept that and 633 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,440 don't let it get you down. You know, continue to work out, 634 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,720 continue to run focus and, and just, you know, work off of 635 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,480 thinking about what that next goal is. 636 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,720 But the up and downs are, are normal and healthy. 637 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:21,360 And I think we need to to really think hard about sometimes how 638 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,880 we plan our training because it's, it's always about when's 639 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,200 the next marathon? Can I squeeze in a fourth one? 640 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,440 Can I squeeze in 1/5? Can I do this half marathon? 641 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,360 And and that's just not a healthy path for a developing 642 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,800 runner. So if the goal is growth as a 643 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,960 runner, you have to take all this into account. 644 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,920 I love this Coach T thank you so much. 645 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,520 And for anyone listening, how is the best way to get in touch 646 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:46,560 with you? Where can they find your 647 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,240 information? Yeah, I have a website, 648 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,640 smartapproachtraining.com. You can reach me there. 649 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:56,080 My Instagram is at run Coach Todd. 650 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,120 I'm on Facebook Smart Approach Training, and then you can also 651 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,840 find me on a Facebook group called I Love to Run. 652 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:07,640 I've been kind of the main admin, one of the main admin and 653 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,160 coaches. They're giving weekly tips and 654 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,200 advice and chiming in throughout so that that's a place to where 655 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,040 you can find me. And yeah, I'd love to, you know, 656 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,160 talk about this if any of you are struggling really around 657 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,080 this, done a lot of research around this topic. 658 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,640 So feel free to, you know, message me, we can talk. 659 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,160 And I love talking about all things running. 660 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,560 This topic isn't quite as sexy as talking about shoes or or 661 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:38,360 supplements or, but it's still important and it's part of our 662 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,080 process of developing as runners, so. 663 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,800 Yes, so, so, so important. We're normalizing that and I'm 664 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,440 going to link everything in our show notes. 665 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,800 Thank you so much for coming on and speaking with me. 666 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:55,600 Thanks lady, I loved it. Thank you Coach Todd for your 667 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,800 wisdom and your practical tips and hopefully you guys that are 668 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,160 listening, that are struggling with the Marathon Blues are 669 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,280 feeling better about yourselves because you know you're not 670 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,400 alone. It happens to all of us and we 671 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,520 have some actionable things that we can now do in order to feel 672 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,360 better. Sign up for a race, let me know 673 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,480 which one you're signing up for and we will cheer you on with 674 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,600 our community. I invite you guys to also join 675 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,960 the Speed Striders on Facebook. Speed Striders is my Facebook 676 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,560 group and on there we are encouraging of each other. 677 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,200 We post and sometimes that can help because I know that a lot 678 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,360 of people don't live in a place where there is a running 679 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,600 community close by. So join our online community. 680 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,920 All right, so that's it for this week. 681 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,600 Thank you again for tuning in. I know last week I had promised 682 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,400 that I would have an episode on what's new in the running 683 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:46,920 industry, and I'm still working on that. 684 00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:49,760 I literally just got back from Texas where there was a huge 685 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,800 running industry event. So I have tons of news. 686 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,560 I just have to sit down and create that episode again. 687 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,760 I invite you to check out my new website slash news platform 688 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,320 Marathon journal.com. Let me know your feedback. 689 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680 Thank you so much for tuning in and until next time, have a 690 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:12,240 great week of running. Thanks for tuning in. 691 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,240 For more information, go to www.marathonrunningpodcast.com 692 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,520 or check us out on all channels.