1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800 You're listening to episode 245 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,240 In this episode, we're going to talk about how to use running to 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:17,360 cope with trauma. This is the Marathon Running 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,960 Podcast by Letty and Ryan from Week at the Runs. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,280 Join us in our running community for weekly content that is 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,080 motivational, educational, and inspirational, and that the 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,920 Marathon Running Podcast take you from the starting line to 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:38,800 the finish line and beyond. Hey runners, and welcome to 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,200 episode 245. My name is Letty. 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,680 My name is Ryan. And we are back with another 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,400 episode, this time a more of a serious episode because we're 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,120 going to talk about how you can use running as a vehicle to 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,720 navigate through traumatic events. 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,960 And with that, we're going to start with a little disclaimer. 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,160 We are not experts when it comes to coping with trauma, and 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,880 obviously there is no substitute for real therapy. 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,000 We're just going to generally talk about how running can help 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,800 you deal with certain life events. 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,040 As an adjunct to seeking professional help. 20 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,800 Yes, if that's what's needed. And so we're going to have a 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:26,680 guest for that too, who exemplarily has done that in his 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,640 own life event. Our guest today, he is a friend 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,960 of mine that used to live in Florida and run with our running 24 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,440 group. And as I got to know him and 25 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,160 he's a very positive person, I learned that his wife had 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,920 tragically died in a car accident. 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:47,480 It was a freak accident and so he had to navigate through that. 28 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,920 And since he is such a positive person, I approached him and 29 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,120 asked him to talk to us about how best deal with any tragic 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,360 events in life. It doesn't have to be death of a 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,600 spouse, but just, you know, bad things happen. 32 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,920 I mean, look, we're pre recording this episode, but this 33 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,000 is the week where there are wildfires in California and so 34 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,920 many homes have been destroyed and, you know, just major 35 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:15,040 setbacks in life. Yeah, I really do hope that they 36 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,600 can get a handle on the fires out in California. 37 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,080 It's, you know, actually my brother's a firefighter in 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,120 Florida, not in California, but just like from his experiences 39 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,200 and stuff, when fires get really big like that, and especially 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,320 when there's wind, they're just so hard to stop. 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,280 It just gets worse and worse. So hopefully they'll get a break 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,320 from the wind, which should help them control it a lot better. 43 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,800 Yes, our heart goes out to everyone in California currently 44 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,920 dealing with that type of situation. 45 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,000 I think anything that you can use to distract, especially 46 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,720 constructive things will help. And I think also exercises is 47 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,920 good for mental well-being. And if you're in a situation 48 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:07,240 where you're having to go through trauma, I think exercise 49 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,080 definitely helps with that too. So combining the distraction of 50 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,400 running and the benefits of exercise should definitely 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,320 contribute to recovery of any trauma. 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,480 And of course, that's always easier said than done right, 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,520 because we don't know how we will react and how we will 54 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,960 behave when we find ourselves in horrific situations. 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,400 Everyone's definitely different but I think it is good to hear 56 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,480 other people's experiences cause sometimes what has worked for 57 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,360 them may work for others or at least get you some ideas if if 58 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,920 you happen to be going through something too. 59 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,520 I have to agree with that point. And I mean, last week we had the 60 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,560 topic of self-defense for runners on and and you know, it 61 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,040 kind of is along the same lines. If if you never think about 62 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,040 anything bad happening, then how are you going to ever be 63 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,880 prepared? And that doesn't mean that, you 64 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,840 know, you need to be negative, but we all have situations in 65 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,400 life that as minimal as they are, they have an effect on us. 66 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,440 And, you know, we have to figure out how to deal with them. 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,200 And running is really a very positive thing in your life 68 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,000 because running gives you endorphins and it gives you 69 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,840 running friends and a community that is usually pretty embracing 70 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:25,840 and will stand behind you. Yeah, I think there's a lot of 71 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:29,920 potential psychological benefits of running that could help in 72 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,000 those situations. Exactly. 73 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,600 So you want to get into it? Sure. 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,520 So without any further ado, I'm now going to play my 75 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:44,480 conversation with Josh Coleman. All right, so I'm on here with 76 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,640 Josh Coleman. Josh, thank you so much for 77 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,560 coming on today. Thank you, lady, for having me. 78 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,440 It's great to see you. And yeah, I miss our little 79 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,320 running group on Sundays for sure. 80 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:56,800 Yes. Yes, absolutely. 81 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,440 So Josh is a personal friend of mine who has been through 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,120 something absolutely crazy and is willing to share with us. 83 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,080 He used to live in Florida. Now he's ventured out to Arizona 84 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,560 to pursue the trails a little bit. 85 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,000 But Josh, maybe for the people who have not heard of you and 86 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,800 don't follow you on Instagram, you can maybe briefly tell us 87 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,880 who you are and then also what happened in your life so we can 88 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,520 dive into the bulk of all of this. 89 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,520 Yeah, absolutely. So just quickly, I was 90 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,000 originally from Kansas City, picked up a little bit of 91 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,440 running there, ran cross country a little bit, a little bit in 92 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,160 high school and then really didn't run that much until I got 93 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,560 in my later 20s and did that more because I started gaining 94 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,240 like married weight. I just, we just got married in 95 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,200 2004. We were living in Kansas City 96 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,040 then I guess about 8-9 years later, I think we're married 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,720 about nine years. There's 2013 we picked up and 98 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,160 moved to New York City, Manhattan, loved it. 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,240 You know, started picking up running a little bit more there. 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,360 Got really inspired, found a really great running group, 101 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,280 they're called Harlem Run Group up in Harlem and started running 102 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,320 with them. And and yeah, you know, while I 103 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,360 was in Kansas City, I ran a couple marathons. 104 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,720 So it just wasn't like an everyday runner wasn't really 105 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,040 serious until I got got to New York. 106 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,920 And then we lived in New York and then COVID happened. 107 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:30,520 And you know, at that point I'd ran the New Jersey Marathon and 108 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,520 ran Boston, qualified for that in 2019. 109 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,120 And then twenty 20s when the COVID happened and then 110 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,960 everything was just kind of crazy, but I did everything I 111 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,680 could to just get outside because I'm not a really an 112 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,640 indoor person. I mean, I like being indoors, 113 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,800 but I, I am one of those that like I have to get out if I'm 114 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,720 inside for a day or two more or more. 115 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,400 I get kind of claustrophobic and get itchy and all those things. 116 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,360 So anyway, but during that time, you know, we were still there, 117 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:07,440 but we, my wife's parents at the time had just moved from Iowa to 118 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,920 Florida on around Fort Myers. And so I've never been there. 119 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,840 I've been to Miami, never been to Florida. 120 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,360 So we went down. This is like in fall of 2020. 121 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,760 So COVID was still kind of crazy, but things were kind of 122 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,640 starting to be kind of what we call that new normal. 123 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:30,160 And so we were there, visited and then stayed for like a 124 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,800 month, went back to New York, came back for the holidays, 125 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,200 stayed for like 4 or five months, whatever it was through 126 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,120 like March, I think up until April. 127 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,280 And they were kind of like, oh, This is why people live in 128 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,000 Florida, kind of got the snow birth. 129 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,080 And so we're like, OK, like, and we both had jobs where we could 130 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,480 kind of work remotely. And so so anyway, went back to 131 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,080 New York, kind of closed everything up, got rid of our 132 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,560 apartment, got rid of like everything, literally 133 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,080 everything. And so we moved to Florida and 134 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,760 we're with our parents. And then we're just kind of 135 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,840 because again, Covad not sure what to do, Should we get 136 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,600 apartment here, kind of write it out. 137 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,120 And then we eventually just decided to buy a house. 138 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,880 And so anyway, I think it was in June, January 2022, we just 139 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,560 gotten into our house, brand new house for those that are 140 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,880 listening in the Fort Myers area, Florida area was Babcock 141 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,200 Ranch. And we loved it and we loved the 142 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,559 neighborhood that we loved, you know, our neighbors. 143 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,520 Everything was like great. And then unfortunately, I just 144 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,400 celebrated my birthday at the end of May and it was about 12 145 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,320 days later. Aaron had been involved in 146 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,000 community theater pretty much her whole life, from high 147 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,360 school, Took a little bit of a break, but even in Kansas City, 148 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,480 in New York, and then even started in Florida, she'd always 149 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,760 find community theater because that was her passion. 150 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,960 She wasn't a runner. I was the runner. 151 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,800 She was involved in theater and she found a great theater group 152 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,200 there in Fort Myers. And she had been in one show 153 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,480 with them and then she was in rehearsals for the second shows 154 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,280 she was going to do called Course Line. 155 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,640 And On June 11th, she was on her way home and unfortunately, she 156 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:24,520 was involved in a car crash, which unfortunately resulted in 157 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,040 her passing away about 5 days later. 158 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,400 And so that's when my world just, you know, flipped upside 159 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,040 down and I didn't know what to do. 160 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,320 I, I was like, I'd never, outside of losing a few 161 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,440 grandparents, I'd never experienced death like this. 162 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,280 I had a couple friends in high school, acquaintances, close 163 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,120 friends that I had two friends in high school, one out of high 164 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,480 school that committed suicide. So that was kind of like the 165 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,880 depth of it. But the last time I lost a 166 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,000 grandparent was in 2004. So it'd been almost 20 years 167 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:02,600 since I experienced like a death and like, like one really, 168 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,840 really close to you, you know, And we lost our dog about a year 169 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,280 and a half before that. So that was really hard too. 170 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,520 But it was like, this was just on a whole nother level, 171 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,360 obviously. And so I think it was about a 172 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,560 week later, you know, I was like, I think it was my mom or 173 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:23,280 my brother. Like they said, you need to keep 174 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,400 running, you know, you need to. And so that's that's kind of 175 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,000 where the the more of the journey of the running and we 176 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,600 can get into more of that. But that's kind of the short of 177 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,000 it, you know, and, you know, happy to talk about, you know, 178 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,120 any of that aspect of what I went through and, you know, how, 179 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,280 you know, running, you know, obviously help me get through 180 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,320 the grief. Yeah. 181 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,040 I mean, you know, this is something that is pretty 182 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,280 unimaginable. And you and I just briefly 183 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,640 talked offline, and I told you that I'm a person that likes 184 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,040 putting everything in perspective. 185 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,120 Like, you know, the hurricane comes, we have enough time to 186 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,680 evacuate. We might lose part of the house, 187 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:03,880 but we still have each other. And so that perspective only 188 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,680 goes that far when you have the ultimate shocker, like you lost 189 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:10,840 your person. You don't have the perspective 190 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,120 of, oh, OK, we can navigate through it because all of a 191 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,360 sudden you went from we to I and all of the dreams that you've 192 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,160 had for, you know, obviously you plan to be married until you're 193 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,720 old. All that has gone. 194 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,680 Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, I tell people, you 195 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:30,000 know, it's like, I can't imagine what you've gone through. 196 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,120 And I don't want anybody to have to imagine what I what I went 197 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,800 through it. But I know people, other people 198 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,080 go through it and I think unfortunately we're all at some 199 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,160 point going to go through, you know, if the parent 200 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,600 unfortunately a child because like, you know, even in my case 201 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,760 with Aaron, you know, it's like, you know, it was like, like 202 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,520 there's her mom lost a daughter, her brother lost a sister, you 203 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,320 know, So there's different aspects of one person passing 204 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,760 that affects people in a different way in a different 205 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,120 type of relationship. You know, for me, yeah, she was 206 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,720 my best friend. And, you know, like and I, you 207 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,400 know, that's why I tell people that's almost the harder part. 208 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,520 That is the harder part for me. I should state that clearly for 209 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,160 me is losing the best friend, the partner, you know, this is a 210 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,920 person that I knew everything about me, knew my INS and outs, 211 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,400 knows the good, the bad, you know, knows everything about me. 212 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,960 And this is a person that I would banter back and forth with 213 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,120 and then all of a sudden one day it's just gone. 214 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,960 And it and it is a lot different than, you know, somebody 215 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,040 unfortunately lose somebody to cancer where you have time to 216 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,280 prepare potentially could be still quick. 217 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,120 I mean, I know people that have been diagnosed and died weeks 218 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,400 later. But in this case, it's like 219 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,480 accident, you know, and then five days later she's passed 220 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,520 away. But I will say, you know, again, 221 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,080 you know, being the positive, optimistic person, you start 222 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,160 trying to find those Silver Linings because that's all you 223 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:53,320 can do. It hurts so bad. 224 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,160 And so I would start thinking about, well, you know, at least 225 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,120 we did this. And you know, you start thinking 226 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,200 about like not having regrets. And that was the one thing that 227 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,040 always try to do is not have regrets in the life that we 228 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,280 live, You know, from moving to New York to moving to Florida, 229 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,200 like we just lived our life. We just did it our way. 230 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,120 And that's one thing that I'll never sure. 231 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,400 I wish I had more time together. I wish I had all these different 232 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,400 things. But in the 20 years that I knew 233 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,960 her, I got as much as I could. I think, you know, I I believe. 234 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,320 And so, you know, even that five days in the hospital gave us 235 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,600 time to grieve and spend time with her, hold her hand. 236 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,240 Now, she never became conscious or anything like that. 237 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,440 You know, she was under the whole time and on a breathing 238 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,080 tube and all those things. And yeah, it's just 239 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:46,000 unimaginable. And but you know, you've, you've 240 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,480 even though it's a sudden as it was you, you start to try to 241 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,520 figure out, OK, how am I going to move forward through this? 242 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,240 And so that's what I started to do is to learn to move forward 243 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,680 and, and, and try to honor her and, and not look at it was 244 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:03,720 something that, you know, she passed away in vain or it was 245 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,520 her fault. You know, this accident wasn't 246 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,600 her fault. It was a car that crossed over 247 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,840 the median on the Interstate that hit her, you know, car, you 248 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,400 know, head on. But I'm also thinking in my 249 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,280 mind, I hope that like she didn't see it, you know, it was 250 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,920 like it happened so quickly that she didn't have even time to, 251 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,760 you know, for her mind to process it. 252 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,920 And I do believe that just in the details of, of the of the 253 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,720 car crash. So, yeah. 254 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,040 So, yeah, I, I just, you know, try to, to learn to just 255 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,400 navigate and, and, you know, move forward. 256 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,120 And, you know, that's all I could do to honor her life. 257 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,680 And so that's where the running, it became my outlet, you know, 258 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,760 because I could go cry, I could go run on the trails and just 259 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,120 escape. And, you know, any anger or 260 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,920 frustration I had or just sadness, more sadness than 261 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,880 anything, you know, just devastation. 262 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,760 That was that running became my outlet. 263 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:06,560 And then later on, you know, finding, you know, run groups 264 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,400 and other fellow runners to to to just just to have some kind 265 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,680 of support, you know, outside of the neighbors. 266 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,800 The neighbors I had were great. But, you know, just having 267 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,880 fellow runners that I could commune with and talk with and 268 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,120 talk it out and share my story with became really healing 269 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,560 process. And I think people like 270 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,800 yourself, you had a few runs that we got to talk about it. 271 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,600 And I seriously thank you for that because I know some people 272 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,240 feel bad about like, hey, I don't want to bring it up or, 273 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,360 and sometimes I feel bad because it's not that I was trying to 274 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,800 force to bring it up. It's like I wanted to talk about 275 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,440 it because that was my way of dealing with it. 276 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:41,800 Because I wanted to share her story. 277 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,760 I wanted to share about her life because she was a wonderful 278 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,760 person. And I wish you would have gotten 279 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,880 to meet her at some point, you know, And so, you know, even at 280 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,840 speedsters, you know, I think at some point, like I would have 281 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,120 joined that, I think regardless at some point because I was 282 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,680 looking for a running group at the time. 283 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,720 But thank goodness I did find it when I did it. 284 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,600 And so I'm just very grateful for that. 285 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,080 Yeah, and I mean, I, I think there's so much to take away 286 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,040 from from you. So you as a person, when I met 287 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,760 you, it had already happened. You've always been a very 288 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,120 positive person. And it seems like you've been a 289 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,880 positive person even before because you're talking about 290 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,160 living your life with Aaron without having any regrets and 291 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,760 then also carrying that through. So you don't have those regrets 292 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,280 when you look back if God forbid, something happens. 293 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,760 But then when you go through something like this and 294 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:42,200 something like that happens, at what point were you able to kind 295 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,280 of take a step back? And I'm asking this because in 296 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,480 the running community, there's constantly stuff that happens 297 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,680 Age. Now that I'm over 40, I've heard 298 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,840 of so many people being diagnosed with cancer, and none 299 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,800 of us are immune to any of it. So as we get older, we're 300 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,040 dealing with more and more tragedies happening. 301 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:07,920 And I'm trying to figure out how other runners can use running as 302 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,920 an outlet like you did. And I know you know running is 303 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,240 not the answer. Running is no substitute for 304 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,160 therapy and all that stuff. But there is something about 305 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,079 movement and how it makes you feel. 306 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:19,839 Maybe you can talk to that a little bit. 307 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,440 Yeah, absolutely. I'll first start, you know, for 308 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,960 people that aren't the runners that maybe listeners or maybe 309 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,240 starting to run. And you know, I think it's, it's 310 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,520 gratitude. Like you have to be grateful for 311 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,800 this life. You know, Stephen Colbert, I 312 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,160 listened to probably a couple months after he was on Anderson 313 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,640 Cooper's podcast because he started a podcast about grieving 314 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,360 after his mother passed away. And I think he had Stephen on 315 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:49,520 like, I don't know, a few episodes and, and, you know, he 316 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,120 said, he said something remarkable. 317 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,320 And I'm, I'm going to paraphrase a little bit, but basically the 318 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,800 the IT was basically you have to be, if you're grateful for your 319 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,040 life, then you have to be grateful for all of it because 320 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,000 it's, it's a gift to exist. And and I truly believe that. 321 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,160 And you and you have. And that's where you, when you 322 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,880 start thinking about life, living in the moments, being 323 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,720 with your kids, like embracing all those moments. 324 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,880 And that's what I tell people, if you're alive, you're with 325 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,440 your partner, with a kid, you have to embrace all those 326 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,560 moments the best you can. Now, are we perfect at it? 327 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,800 No, we get upset all those things. 328 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:25,800 But so, yeah. So it's the gratitude. 329 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,080 But when it goes into the running for me, again, like I 330 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,920 said earlier, it's just relieving that because it is so 331 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,000 stressful, it is so hard. And, and, and if regardless if 332 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,840 you're running, walking, I think any of those things, just some 333 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,600 form of exercise will exclude some of that built up energy 334 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,360 that it's inside of you. Because I think if you don't and 335 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,120 you don't release or talk about it, then what I believe happens, 336 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,840 and I'm going to talk about this in my book, that that just 337 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,920 festers up into something else and it becomes a form of energy 338 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,600 that just goes out because we're, you know, you have anger 339 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,960 and then you end up lashing out at somebody or, you know, you 340 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,960 just balled it for years and you never forgive yourself or you 341 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,840 never, you know, give yourself that space to grieve. 342 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,960 And so that's why I think it's important to grieve and then 343 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,840 embrace it, the crying, all of it. 344 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Like don't try to run from it, even though it sounds 345 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,880 counterintuitive about running inside of it. 346 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,840 But I always say, you know, you're running to, to something, 347 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,440 you're running to, to, to embrace that sadness, you're 348 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,320 running to, to counteract those feelings and things like that. 349 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,200 And that's why I just believe running, exercising, all those 350 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,160 things are us. If you're not a big runner, if 351 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,680 you are, you know, like it's such a, it's not an escape. 352 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,320 It's, it's to help to just let it out. 353 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:47,200 And I, I don't know how many runs I went on where I cried and 354 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,840 you know, that I would just let it out. 355 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,280 And, and that's how that's, that's, that was the journey of 356 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,200 getting through and it still is. I still honor a lot of the runs 357 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,840 I do to her. I obviously every run I do, I 358 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,400 think about her and incapacity some form. 359 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,320 And so, you know, it's one of the things that's helped me even 360 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,960 do some of these longer races that I've done just because 361 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,080 going through something like that, I personally don't believe 362 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,160 that I'll go through anything harder than that in my life. 363 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,240 I believe, you know, I mean, obviously other people can die 364 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,560 in my life. You know, parents, things like 365 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,800 that, but just, you know, that's kind of the natural order of 366 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,520 things. But when you lose somebody that 367 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,840 40 years old, that's just a different level of losing 368 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,400 somebody. And so it's the unexpected, you 369 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,640 know, and then I know parents can die. 370 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,720 I expected to, and I have friends that I've had parents, 371 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:37,920 you know, and that's still tough. 372 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,880 It doesn't matter if it's a parent sibling, it's still tough 373 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,680 for anybody. You don't think anything can hit 374 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,720 you as hard? Do you think your relationship, 375 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,640 and this is regardless of religion, Do you think your 376 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,360 relationship with death has changed knowing that your best 377 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:56,440 friend has been through it? I don't know that it's changed. 378 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,200 You know, I've always, you know, I, that doesn't necessarily 379 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,800 scare me. I think it's just the unknown 380 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,720 and when it's going to happen. I think that that probably 381 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,320 bothers me more. Like I don't even know if it's a 382 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,000 fear. Like I don't fear dying. 383 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,880 Like I know what's going to happen and I know what's going 384 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,280 to happen to all of us at some point. 385 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,320 So I wouldn't say that it's necessarily changed. 386 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,360 But I will say, you know, having someone that's died close to you 387 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:23,120 is definitely taken me to, like I mentioned earlier, to be more 388 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:27,680 grateful for my life and just take everything with, you know, 389 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,200 at some points to not taking life as serious and just 390 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,080 embracing life as it comes. And but yeah, I, it's not that 391 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,800 I'm, I think that it's changed, it's just that maybe I haven't 392 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,320 embraced it a little bit more. But yeah. 393 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,760 OK. And then you also mentioned that 394 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,800 I think it was your mom that said to you after a week of 395 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,920 grieving you need to start running. 396 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,520 Can you tell us a little bit more about? 397 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,960 Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think she knew that 398 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,240 I needed to try to start to do something normal again. 399 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,760 You know, work was out of the question for me. 400 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,600 It was just dealing with everything else. 401 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,920 And so I didn't work for a few, I think a couple months with my 402 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,080 job. And so, yeah, I just took that 403 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,320 time. She's like, you just need, you 404 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,000 know it because what you're going to have to figure out 405 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,760 through this is what that new normal looks like, because 406 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,240 nothing will ever be normal again. 407 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,720 And that's why I say you don't move on from something like 408 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,160 this. You learn to move forward. 409 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,800 And so for me, it was just continually moving forward 410 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,680 through running. And I knew I need to get back 411 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,320 to. But it was, it was great hearing 412 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,880 from somebody that obviously my mother that, you know, cares 413 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,200 about me and, and obviously she worries about me. 414 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,880 So she knew that was going to be something that would help me 415 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,120 because she knew she knows how serious I was with my running 416 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,640 and how much how important it was to me. 417 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,880 So I need to get back to something for myself because 418 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,920 that's what you have to figure it out is how you're because now 419 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,640 it's just, you know, for me it was just like, now it's just me. 420 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,360 You know, I don't have, I don't have kids. 421 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,400 And so, you know, I had Aaron and, you know, obviously I've 422 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,440 got extended family, but that's like it. 423 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,800 And so I have to figure out how to take care of me, navigate 424 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,720 this. So that's where the running, you 425 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,920 know, every day for me just became the medicine. 426 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,160 Every day I ran every day. Wow. 427 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,520 Yeah. And as, as we all know, when you 428 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,000 are a runner and you go run with others, the relationship that 429 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,680 you build with people that are runners versus people that you 430 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,680 meet at work or at a cocktail party is completely different. 431 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,480 And I think it's partially because early morning hours, the 432 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,360 girls, we don't wear makeup and you're running next to someone. 433 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,080 You're not making eye contact while you're talking about 434 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,600 topics that I think because we're not making eye contact, we 435 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,400 go deeper into things. There's almost no judgement. 436 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,400 I mean, you know, runners talk about pooping all the time and 437 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,800 that kind of stuff. How do you think that type of 438 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,760 relationship with these runners? Because I think it developed 439 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,200 just a lot deeper. How has that helped? 440 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,720 Yeah, absolutely. So interestingly enough, the 441 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,560 first person I came to Spacers with was my friend John, and I 442 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,880 actually met him. I found a Facebook group called 443 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,520 Ultra Runners because I always wanted to get into trail 444 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,840 running. And so I just posted like, hey, 445 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,840 it was like for all of Florida. But I'm thinking, well, 446 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,880 Florida's pretty big. So I just posted like, hey, any 447 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,440 trail runners in the OR any runners in Southwest Florida? 448 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,040 And he took the bait. And so we met up for the first 449 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,680 time. And so the first time him and I 450 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,920 are running, you know, I start sharing about Aaron because 451 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,320 again, this was only, this was in September of 22 and she'd 452 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,160 only passed away like 3 months before that. 453 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,200 And then he had just lost his mom like a year, but like like 454 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,040 in April of that year. So it's interesting that I met 455 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,800 him and he had just lost his mom and it was, you know, a long 456 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,840 term as a cancer, you know, type situation, but still is like, 457 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,160 wow, it already ran into somebody that just went through 458 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,600 is going through the grieving process himself and, you know, 459 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,600 and his dad, his dad is still alive. 460 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,120 And so, you know, he's grieving with his dad and going all those 461 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,520 things. So so it was just interesting 462 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,600 that this first person I meet, like the first kind of runner 463 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,240 that you know, I meet is somebody that just lost their 464 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,720 mom, you know, about 5 or 6 months earlier chances. 465 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,160 So him and I got the share and then that created a bond and him 466 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,360 and I are still friends. And then we're like, hey, let's 467 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,480 go check this speedsters out. And but to your point is like, 468 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,960 yeah, I think it just allows us because obviously we have the 469 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,640 one thing in common running. And again, I think all those 470 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,800 hours you spend together, you're bound to talk about something. 471 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,040 You know, it's not that we don't talk. 472 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,320 I mean, sometimes you do run and don't talk about anything or 473 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,000 just talk about whatever. Or sometimes we're just quiet 474 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,800 and we just focus on the on the running. 475 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,120 But I think it's those relationships in those circles, 476 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,320 I think it does open us up. And I think just releasing those 477 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,560 endorphins, I think it just, you know, it's like for some people 478 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,320 loosen up with maybe dancing and alcohol, we can just do with 479 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,280 running, you know, So I think, I think running kind of does a 480 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,360 similar thing. It just opens this up and 481 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,240 loosens this up. And, and I, I think you may make 482 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,400 an interesting point, not having that eye contact at first, I 483 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,520 think helps us, you know, not think about, you know, how this 484 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,960 person's judging me or not, you know, they're just listening. 485 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,600 And I think that's super important. 486 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,080 I agree and I think you know the running community. 487 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,840 I'm not a religious person, but to me it's comparable, like a 488 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,560 church almost. Because if you think about it, 489 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,040 if you move anywhere in the country, people find their 490 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,360 communities by going to a Church of their nomination 491 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,760 denomination. And then they, you know, make 492 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,880 bonds. And we kind of do the same thing 493 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,000 by going to find a running group and you have that one thing in 494 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,120 common and that just ties you so closely together, no matter if a 495 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,280 hurricane happens where they'd help each other. 496 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,160 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 497 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,440 And then that's what I love about the, you know, running 498 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,080 community. And, you know, I think the 499 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,160 interesting thing, too, is people come from all walks of 500 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,040 life. Some people are spiritual, some 501 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,680 people are religious, some aren't. 502 00:26:56,120 --> 00:27:00,880 But nobody judges, nobody tries to, you know, preach and do all 503 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,560 those things. We just share life together. 504 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,520 And I think that that's what's important about community. 505 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,440 And even if you are involved in the church, that should be the 506 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,680 same thing. You know, whatever your focus 507 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,360 is, it shouldn't be about judging people. 508 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,200 And, you know, just like God talks, bye, bye. 509 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,720 Who are we to judge? Like we're all, you know, we all 510 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,800 have our faults. And, you know, and that's why I 511 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,560 think it's important. And yeah. 512 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,080 And you do run across people that you know, I think the other 513 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,400 interesting thing too that I come across a lot, especially 514 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,160 the people and running, I actually find more fascinating 515 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,160 too, is actually people that do run because of substance abuses 516 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,640 and things in their life. You know, I'm dealing with the 517 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,760 grief, but I've met a lot of runners that and some of it is 518 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,360 for grieving, but a lot of its sobriety too, which I find 519 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,040 really, really fascinating because I think again, it's that 520 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,480 outlet, you know, they need something else in their life 521 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,640 because I just believe that we all have a void in our life. 522 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,040 And I think you have to figure out what you fill it up and some 523 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,920 fill it up, unfortunately, all kinds of bad things. 524 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,000 And so you need to figure out to fill it up with the good things, 525 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,400 you know, and, and for a lot of us, us included, it's running, 526 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,760 you know, that's our outlet. That's our time to escape. 527 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000 I know for you, it's probably, you know, I know you love your 528 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,120 kids, but it's probably sometimes like, hey, I need a 529 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:09,440 break. Mom needs a break here, you 530 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,320 know, and that's OK, That's important, that's important, 531 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:15,480 that's important. But sometimes I run with you and 532 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,360 sometimes you push them in a stroller and, and, and make it a 533 00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:21,400 family thing. But sometimes we sometimes, and 534 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,080 I'm sure you just a lot, you go run by yourself because you do 535 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,080 need that time alone and you need, you know, one of the 536 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,360 things I actually do a lot is I problem solve and I when I run, 537 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,360 I actually don't do a lot of music. 538 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:36,720 I do occasionally, but I use it to think and just kind of let 539 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,080 out. Sometimes I'll talk, I'll talk 540 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,600 to myself. I'm not afraid to cause I'm I'm 541 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,680 a very verbal person so sometimes I need to to listen to 542 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,480 what I'm saying to understand what I'm thinking. 543 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,920 I think you're spot on 100%. I mean, I think we all run and 544 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,400 as we get busy and as we have kids and stuff, I feel like 545 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,560 running kind of by yourself helps you be the individual. 546 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,360 Because I strongly believe that if you are not a happy 547 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,520 individual and if your own cup is not full, then you can't pour 548 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,840 from it and you know, give to other people. 549 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,200 You can't be the best as he can be in the family. 550 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,120 Well, especially if you need to pull off some steam. 551 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,120 I mean, we all again, we're, we, we all have our faults. 552 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,280 We get upset, we get mad, whatever you want to call it. 553 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,760 I mean, whatever degree it is, some get really, really angry, 554 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,680 Some just get frustrated. You know, I'm all those people 555 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,480 that probably gets more frustrated than angry. 556 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,840 You know, I'm not a really angry person, but I do get frustrated, 557 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,880 get frustrated with myself. Maybe I get other people. 558 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,320 So Ronnie becomes again, that outlet to let off that steam to, 559 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,120 to, to, to, to sweat, you know, which is one thing I do miss a 560 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,720 little bit more about Florida, Arizona, don't sweat as much. 561 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,920 And I actually do miss that a little little bit. 562 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,160 I mean, because it is because you're literally releasing 563 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,920 toxins and things out of your body as you sweat it out. 564 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,360 And I think that's the frustrations and that's why I 565 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,320 think running, cycling, you know, walking, all those things 566 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,800 are important. So you can let that out. 567 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,680 That's that again, is the outlet. 568 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,560 So you don't maybe yell at your kids. 569 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,880 So maybe you go on a run or something, or your spouse or 570 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,400 somebody else, a Co worker, you know, you go run, you kind of 571 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,360 let out that frustration or whatever it might be. 572 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,560 And then you come back and like, OK, I've had time to think about 573 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,400 it cool down here. I'm good. 574 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,720 Yeah. No, absolutely. 575 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,000 And then I think you, there's something to be said about 576 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,840 sweating, right? Because when we work out and we 577 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,040 do strength exercises, you don't have that sweat. 578 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,680 And I think a lot of us want to see that sweat because we're 579 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,960 feeling like we're towards something. 580 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,080 I'm a weirdo. I actually love. 581 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,200 I love to sweat. I don't always miss the 582 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,040 humidity, I will admit that. But there are times even like 583 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,000 yesterday, it's been cold here and I was like, I feel like I'm 584 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,200 sweating out, like I need to go get in the sauna just so I can 585 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,760 sweat out more. Well, don't worry, we don't have 586 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,120 that here either. You're not missing out, It's in 587 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,600 the. Yeah, not this time of year, but 588 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,160 during the summer, you know, it's like, it's like, I don't 589 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,080 know, it's like I like the humidity training, but then 590 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,720 there's like no mountains to run. 591 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,000 So I don't know. It's it's. 592 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,280 Yeah, you know, and let's, I wanted to, you know, have that 593 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,520 be one of my last questions to to hop into trail running 594 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,880 because you've embraced trail running way more than road 595 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,600 running. So what is it about trail 596 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,640 running that you love so much? Yeah, and again, I don't want 597 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,080 people you know, I love. I still Rd. run. 598 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,480 Actually I did a road run yesterday, did some training. 599 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,720 So I, I still Rd. run, but for trails, it's just for me, it's 600 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,600 just more stimulating and just something about being in the 601 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,320 woods and nature and running over rocks and, and things like 602 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,440 that. Not that there's like not 603 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,000 beautiful cities to run through. You know, Boston's fun. 604 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,560 I just did Chicago back in October. 605 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,800 Beautiful city fun. I had a blast running Chicago. 606 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,760 So I still do enjoy aspects, but there is something to just being 607 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,200 in the middle of and maybe again, not for everybody, but 608 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,520 just in the middle of the woods with like nobody else around. 609 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,640 And, and maybe, you know, obviously I do run with other 610 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,560 people and at times too, but yeah, it's just, you know, just 611 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,760 navigating, just seeing something different. 612 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,880 Like here, it's just like so many different trails are still 613 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,600 like trails. I haven't even gone down yet. 614 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,000 Like, oh, I need to check that out. 615 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,880 And so I think it's just, it piques my interest more 616 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,880 sometimes. I'm most people, sometimes I can 617 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,760 get bored easily. And so it's like I need 618 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,840 different routes and things to take. 619 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,120 And, and so, yeah, I, I feel like sometimes I didn't get that 620 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:22,000 with the road running as much, but yeah, I just, and it's just, 621 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,560 I think it's one thing that I realized I was going to navigate 622 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,400 more towards, especially as I got older, just because, you 623 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,920 know, running on trails can be a little softer on the on the body 624 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,280 sometimes it can be a little rougher though too, so. 625 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,240 Yeah, no, I I completely get you. 626 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,760 I'm literally dying in suburbia and sometimes I run in the dark 627 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,440 in the mornings just so I don't have the same streets over and 628 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,080 over again. And yeah, All right, so let me 629 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,160 ask you one last question. So for a person that is 630 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,840 currently grieving, either because of a sickness or a death 631 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,920 or something that is really significant, what advice do you 632 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,760 have for that person for a way to channel their emotions into 633 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,600 something positive? Because like I said, you're a 634 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,560 very positive person, so how can somebody at least attempt to get 635 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,480 to a better place? Sure. 636 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,840 Yeah. I'll first say like, it's OK to 637 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,800 be frustrated, it's OK to be angry. 638 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,880 But I think you have to get to the other side of that at some 639 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,240 point. And so, you know, and that's 640 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,760 where you have to try to find those, those Silver Linings and, 641 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,800 and those different things, aspects of life or with that 642 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,640 person that he shared with, you know, like, even if it was a 643 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,360 rocky relationship or not a great relationship they had with 644 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,920 somebody, I don't know that part of it, but I would even say for 645 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,760 that person that, you know, it's OK to like, you know, to forgive 646 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,440 yourself. Like you can still go back. 647 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,840 There had to been some good times. 648 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,360 So do your best to try to remember those good times you 649 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,520 had together and know that it, it, it, it's OK. 650 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:50,880 Like, you know, we're not perfect. 651 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,720 Things happen. Yeah. 652 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,080 It's OK to feel all the emotions, you know, be 653 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,640 frustrated, angry. But it's, it's learning to to 654 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,520 get, you know, through that and move forward from that, that, 655 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,880 you know, you can, you know, you can't stay in that state of mind 656 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,520 forever. And so that's where the 657 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,440 gratitude comes in, to learn to be grateful for that person, 658 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,880 what they did in your life, you know, even if you had tough and 659 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,719 rough times together, like start to find those Silver Linings. 660 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,120 And that's what I did. I have. 661 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,480 And I'll talk about some of these in my book that'll be 662 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,960 coming out later this fall that there's a Silver Linings that I 663 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,600 had along the way that I look back on that I'm just super 664 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,040 grateful for. And I think the more people can 665 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,400 do that, you know, you know, and then just find that outlet, 666 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,239 whatever that outlet, if it's not the running, hopefully it's 667 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,440 walking, some type of exercise, something that, you know, 668 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,679 something for you, something that you enjoy to, to do or even 669 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,440 something you both enjoy to do together. 670 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,520 Or if you can get to that place and it's going to be different, 671 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,239 you know, that they give you those, you know, the five stages 672 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,719 of grief and there's no timeline. 673 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,280 And just know that it it's OK. It's going to take time. 674 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,880 Give yourself time to grieve and make there's no again for me, 675 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,160 there's never getting over it. Like I will never get over the 676 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,360 fact of losing Aaron. But what I will do is learn to 677 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,760 move forward, and I'll learn to move forward with gratitude to 678 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,040 honor her life, because I think it would do a dishonor to not 679 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:18,120 honor her life for who she was. Thank you so much, Josh. 680 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,040 I have nothing to add to this. I'm just hoping that, you know, 681 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,240 if we ever find ourselves in a bad spot, that these 682 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,400 conversations will help all of us navigate through bad stuff. 683 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,520 And if somebody wants to follow your journey on Instagram or 684 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,680 wherever, maybe tell us what that is in a little bit about 685 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,680 your book too. Yeah, absolutely. 686 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,720 So you can follow me at Josh Run Adventures on Instagram. 687 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,440 That's probably the best place. I don't have a Facebook page or 688 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,600 anything. I got a Facebook account. 689 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,880 If you find me, I might friend you if I know who you are. 690 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,280 Best place to just do Instagram? I try to share a few stories 691 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,080 there, here, here and there and just continue to share positive 692 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,840 things. But yeah, so the book I'm 693 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:09,240 currently writing, I'm like 6 chapters in, so we'll go through 694 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:11,880 the editing process here in a couple months. 695 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,520 So I got to finish right in the chapters. 696 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:19,000 But essentially it's that it's, it's moving forward a journey 697 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,880 running through grief. And so it is, it's all about 698 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,400 this journey, all shared aspects of my life. 699 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,080 And, and I just want people to know that like, it's OK, like 700 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,360 you don't have to move on from this. 701 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,160 And people that tell you to try to move on and do all those 702 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,280 things, don't listen to them. Like there is no like grieve in 703 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,480 your time because grief is different for everybody. 704 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,440 And just like I lost a spouse, you know, somebody else with 705 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,640 Aaron, lost a sister and lost a daughter. 706 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,720 So that grieving is going to be different for everybody. 707 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,640 And so I just think it's not good for any of us to try to 708 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,440 tell somebody how to grieve. And I think honestly, the best 709 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,880 thing sometimes you can do is just be for the there for that 710 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,400 person. And one things I'll talk about 711 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,600 is just sometimes it's better to say nothing than to say 712 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,880 something if you don't have like, you know, just trying to 713 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,080 compare like, Oh, I know what you're going through. 714 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,680 And, and I understand why people do that. 715 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,800 And it's because we want to try to help. 716 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,520 And a lot of times I'll tell people like, there's nothing you 717 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,440 can say that's really going to help. 718 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,160 I mean, it's those words. Like for me, I'm a positive 719 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,800 person, so I get it, I understand it. 720 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,640 But I just tell people try to be sensitive to just sometimes just 721 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,080 go set with them and just be with them, just run with them. 722 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,160 And if they want to open up and talk about it, let them. 723 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,600 Don't force the conversation. So that'll be a lot of what the 724 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,200 book is about and that kind of journey, you know, moving 725 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,720 forward and just understanding and how to navigate through some 726 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,440 of this grief. And no. 727 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,760 And hopefully it'll, you know, if anything, I'll probably write 728 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,600 it for myself, but hopefully it'll impact somebody. 729 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,760 No, absolutely. I'm sure it'll have a huge 730 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,800 impact because you are a positive person, but of course 731 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,760 the writing process will also help you so. 732 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,160 Absolutely. So much. 733 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,040 Yeah. Thank you so much for talking 734 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,200 with me, Josh. Yes, thank you, Letty. 735 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,280 It's great to see you and hopefully our paths and trails 736 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,880 will cross at some point again. Definitely I'm going to send you 737 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,640 a message about my any races that have West. 738 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,680 OK, sounds great. All right, have a good one, Josh 739 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:14,440 all. Right, you too. 740 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,440 Cheers. Thank you. 741 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:21,480 Bye. Thank you, Josh, so much for 742 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,120 sharing your story with us and your inspiration and what you've 743 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:33,040 learned from this experience. And I hope that you know how 744 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,320 inspirational you are and how your positivity is contagious. 745 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,760 And hopefully when, because obviously we're all gonna go 746 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,320 through something eventually in life when something like that 747 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,800 hits our homes. We can think about our 748 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,160 conversation with you and then maybe pull some strength from 749 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,800 you. And for all of you listeners, if 750 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,680 you're interested in following Josh, I'm going to link his 751 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,600 information in our show notes. And then as he mentioned, he's 752 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,200 going to have a book coming out hopefully this fall, and we'll 753 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,200 keep you posted on that. Yeah, I can't imagine something 754 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,520 like so shocking or devastating. And I guess, I guess the only 755 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,960 thing you can do is try to, you know, keep positive thoughts and 756 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,560 move on. And but that's really hard to 757 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,200 do. So it's very admirable to be 758 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,880 able to do that and and to share the story, which is probably 759 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,680 painful in itself. Yeah, absolutely. 760 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,640 So that that's it, That's what we got for you for this week. 761 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,600 Next week I will be back from Kenya. 762 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,960 Hopefully I won't be too jet lagged Ryan to record a brief 763 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,000 episode on what it was like to run with the Kenyans and we'll 764 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,040 see how that pans out. If I am too tired then it'll be 765 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,680 a different episode and you will hear that episode in the 766 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,680 following week. And lady, where can people find 767 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,360 your vlogs? Yeah, so I'm posting. 768 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,480 Well hopefully future lady will be posting these daily vlogs 769 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,440 about the trip to Kenya on YouTube. 770 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,520 On YouTube, we are at running podcasts, but I think you can 771 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,920 also find me as Lady runs because that's the handle. 772 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,080 Well, the handle is at Running Podcast, but I've changed the 773 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,000 name of the YouTube channel to Letty Runs because Ryan. 774 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,480 I'm still undecided what to name the YouTube channel. 775 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,120 If anyone wants to submit a good name, maybe Letty will use it 776 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,200 for her YouTube channel. Yes, I can definitely use some 777 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,520 help with that because Marathon Running Podcast is definitely a 778 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,960 title that is too long. Letty runs. 779 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,920 I mean I am letty and I run but I don't know if I like it so if 780 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,320 you have ideas you can message me. 781 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,760 And with that. Have a great week of running. 782 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,920 Thanks for tuning in. For more information and 783 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,840 marathon running news, please head to 784 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:08,160 www.marathonrunningpodcast.com and we'll be back next week.