1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 You're listening to episode 287 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:05,120 In this episode, we're going. To play you. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,240 Our interview with Dean Carnazas. 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,760 This is the. Marathon Running Podcast with 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,120 Letty and Ryan. Join us for weekly content on 6 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:16,000 all things running and let us take you from the starting line 7 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:22,960 to the finish line and beyond. Hey runners and. 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,920 Welcome to episode 287. My name is Letty. 9 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,240 My name is Ryan. And we are back from Amsterdam, 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,720 where we attended the International Running Expo and 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,440 got to interview Dean Carnazas. For those that don't know, who's 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Dean Carnazas? Yeah, So Dean Carnazas is an 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,640 American ultra runner who has been doing ultras before ultras 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,440 really came into existence. And I'm talking, we're talking 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,800 90s here. He's run hundreds of marathons 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,760 and it's just really known for being that person who does the 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,600 distance. What are some of the things he's 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,200 best known for? So besides running all those 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,360 ultra races, some of his highlights in his careers are 20 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,000 running a 350 Miller in 80 hours. 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:11,880 He did relays where he was a one man team of 200 miles. 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:18,520 He's run the South Pole Marathon in -13°F without snowshoes, and 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,040 also there's actually a film about him running 50 marathons, 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,720 one in each state, in 50 consecutive days. 25 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,360 That's a lot. Yeah, right. 26 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,720 That's a, that's a ton. So he's really, really 27 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,520 interesting in that aspect. He's also won the race of bad 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,320 water, which is the race in the desert that goes up a mountain, 29 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:39,000 which is 135 miles in Death Valley. 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,200 He won the 4 Desert Series. I mean, the list just goes on 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,200 and on. He's very well known in the 32 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,200 world and lately he's been spending time in Greece because 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,640 as you can tell by his last name, he is of Greece heritage 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,840 and over there he's now focusing a little bit on tourism and 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,880 offering running camps in Greece for people that are interested. 36 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,560 Cool, that'd be a nice place to run. 37 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,520 Yes, absolutely. So you want to get into it? 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,840 Sure. So without any further ado, 39 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,840 we're now going to play our conversation with Dean Carnazas. 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Hi, I'm Dean Carnassus. All right, my name is Letty and 41 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,840 I'm with Marathon Media. Dean Carnassus is a living 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,640 legend. He is the marathon man. 43 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,080 He started ultra marathon running before there was any 44 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,640 ultra marathon running. So long ago that you actually 45 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:34,080 were able to get the handle ultra marathon on Instagram. 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,040 No one tried to buy that from me, by the way, did they? 47 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,240 Yeah. How much did they bid? 48 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,520 For it, they actually, they offered me 10,000 US, yeah. 49 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,240 Nice. I mean, it's not so bad. 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,720 I didn't want to sell it, yeah. Yeah. 51 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,760 And but also though, you know, I think your name is even more 52 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,360 popular than actually using the handle for it, right? 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,400 Yeah. I mean, there's like I think 5 54 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,800 or 6 Dean Carnassus Instagram pages. 55 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,240 None of them are mine. Oh wow, they're the ones out 56 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,400 there. Yes, yes. 57 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,360 So Dean, tell us your story. For anyone that does not know 58 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,560 your story, you started ultra running on your 30th birthday 59 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,400 after you had some drinks at a bar. 60 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,480 So take us down memory lane. So I'll start by saying I'm 100% 61 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,800 Greek. So I think running is in my DNA 62 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,000 because I started running home from kindergarten. 63 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,640 My earliest childhood recollections are running like 64 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:22,880 one or two kilometers home from school when I was five years 65 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:24,680 old. I ran competitively in high 66 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,680 school when I was a freshman first year and we won the 67 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,320 championships. And I thought, OK, that's as far 68 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,920 as I'm ever going to take my running career. 69 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,600 Let's let's end on a good note. So I didn't run for 15 years. 70 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,720 And then I was in a bar in San Francisco in a nightclub doing 71 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,120 what a lot of guys doing their 30th birthday. 72 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,720 I was getting drunk with my buddies and at midnight I told 73 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,400 them I was leaving. They said, oh, where you going? 74 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,840 Like the night is young, Let's have another round of tequila to 75 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,440 celebrate your 30th birthday. And I said, no, I'm going to run 76 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,160 30 miles to celebrate my 30th birthday instead. 77 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,680 I'll never forget. They looked at me and they said, 78 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,480 but you're not a runner, you're drunk. 79 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,920 I said I am but I'm still going to do it. 80 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,640 And I literally walked out of this bar I'll never forget. 81 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,840 I didn't own running gear at the time, but I had on these 82 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,480 comfortable silk underwear like soapboxer shorts. 83 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,640 And I peeled off my pants and I threw them down the alleyway and 84 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,000 just started stumbling S into the night knowing there's a town 85 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,640 called Half Moon Bay 30 miles away. 86 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,000 And somehow I made it and decided I was going to quit my 87 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,079 corporate job and become an ultra marathoner. 88 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,040 And this was over 3 decades ago. Wow. 89 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,960 So that's a really fun story, especially for your friends, 90 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,360 right? What were your friends saying 91 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,840 when you told them I'm not gonna walk home, I'm not gonna drive 92 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:35,440 home, I'm actually gonna take my pants off and throw them off? 93 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,240 And lucky you didn't get arrested, right? 94 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,240 Yeah, I didn't tell them. I just said I'm leaving, I'm 95 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,480 gonna go do this. And they said. 96 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,120 And so I walked. I'll never forget. 97 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,840 I walked past the bathrooms, through the kitchen of this, it 98 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,440 was like a bar restaurant, and then walked down the tradesman's 99 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,400 alley, out into the street. And it was, I don't know, that 100 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,640 night was it was magical. Even now I remember it gives me 101 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,600 the chills. I mean, I remember when I 102 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,120 started to sober up about 10 miles down the road, I thought, 103 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,280 this is really stupid. What the hell are you doing? 104 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,760 But I looked up and I saw the stars and I felt this energy. 105 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,600 I was all by myself in the middle of the night. 106 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,720 But the heavens spoke to me and said, you're a runner. 107 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,160 Like, This is why you're here. You're made to run. 108 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,600 I mean, sure, it's just running, but this is kind of why you're 109 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:14,760 on Earth. And I'll never forget that 110 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,640 moment. So you were committed and you 111 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,160 probably had the same thoughts that you later on would have in 112 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,960 an ultra where you're like, this is stupid, why am I doing this? 113 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:25,520 But so fasting forward, you end up going to the town. 114 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,120 And then you said you called your wife. 115 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,640 What was your wife's reaction to finding out that you didn't just 116 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,800 pass out anywhere, but instead you'd run 30 miles? 117 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,640 Well, this is 1992, so there were no cell phones back then. 118 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,600 But I remember I went to a convenience store called 711, 119 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,520 which is like a very low end convenience store. 120 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,160 And there's a payphone out in front. 121 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,240 And I called my wife Collect, and she said, what are you 122 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,720 doing? You've never not come home 123 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,400 before. I mean, like, that's soon, not 124 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,600 like you. And I said I'm fine, but I need 125 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,760 a ride home. She said OK, no questions asked. 126 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,760 She said where are you at? And I said I'm at 711. 127 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,920 And she said mean the 711 on Geary St. there's a 711 right 128 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,800 down the road from our house. I said no, the 711 in Half Moon 129 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,840 Bay. And she said, what? 130 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,880 That's 30 miles away. How did you get there? 131 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,680 And I said I ran. She said you ran from where? 132 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,400 I said I walked out of the car drunk and I ran here. 133 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,480 I've been running all night. And she said just hold still, 134 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,520 you don't sound very stable but I'll be right there. 135 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,240 And she came and picked me up and about 5 minutes into the 136 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,840 drive home I remember waking up and had drool all over me. 137 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,360 So that was my first ultra marathon that night. 138 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,160 Drunk underwear. Yeah, in your underwear. 139 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,520 Yeah. So did you ever retrieve your 140 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,960 pants or you just kind of left them there? 141 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,320 And also, what shoes were you wearing? 142 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:31,960 Because you're saying you didn't own any running gear. 143 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,320 Obviously, this was a spontaneous thing that happened. 144 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,480 You didn't plan it. Yeah, I had, I remember they 145 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,400 were, they're called Topsiders. So they're like casual, you 146 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,160 know, kind of upscale work shoes. 147 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,520 They were leather work shoes. Yeah. 148 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:43,480 They were horrible. They were not. 149 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,560 I didn't own running gear at the time, so that's what I ran in. 150 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,160 Did you have a lot of blisters? I had chafing where the sun 151 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,440 don't shine, and I had a lot of blisters. 152 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,160 It was, it was not pretty. I said I ran 30 miles. 153 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,840 But I mean, like, I hobbled. I I, you know, I meandered, I 154 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:02,680 shuffled. I yeah, I made it 30 miles. 155 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,680 So it's a really funny story, but in reality, you really 156 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,640 learned something about yourself when you did that. 157 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,360 Because take us through the next step because you ended up 158 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,080 quitting your job. Tell us what your job was and 159 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,080 what your plan was. Where did you want to go from 160 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,320 there? You know, I didn't really have a 161 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,280 game plan going into it, but you know, they, I was a, I've got, 162 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,320 I've got a business degree, so I was an MBA and there's a lot of 163 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,600 people say the license, the lessons from running translate 164 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,760 to life. I think the lessons from 165 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,560 business also translate to running. 166 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,400 So I said, you know, how are you going to keep the lights on? 167 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,680 No one's paying you to, to win an ultra marathon. 168 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,520 So I started, you know, I wrote a book that became a instant 169 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,880 bestseller, which really helped because book royalties are a 170 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,880 nice way to make a living. And then at the finish of a race 171 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,880 called the Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run, and this is 172 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,480 maybe 1998, some people from this company called The North 173 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,920 Face came up to me and they said, hey, we want to design A 174 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,680 shoe specifically for running on trails. 175 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Do you want to help us design this shoe? 176 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,520 And I said I sounded a good job, so I took it. 177 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,760 And I'll never forget when we first came out these trail 178 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,920 running shoes, people couldn't believe that there was a running 179 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,600 shoe made just for trails. Like this is incredible. 180 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,560 Like you're going to run on. They've got big grooves in the 181 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,160 bottom and now it's so commonplace. 182 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,680 But that was like the first trail running shoe that came out 183 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,280 so. How did that happen back in the 184 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:21,600 90s? Because now we know there's 185 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,000 social media, that's the Internet. 186 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,240 This was a little bit beforehand. 187 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,600 How did people learn about you back then, and how did North 188 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,520 Face even come to approach you? You know, I finished this 100 189 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,240 mile race, the 100, the western stage, 100 mile endurance rent. 190 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:34,960 And there were some representatives there, some shoe 191 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,559 designers, and they just came up to me and they said you seem 192 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,360 like a great guy to work with. You know, let's do a 193 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,320 partnership. And it just flourished from 194 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,480 there. And then in 2006, the Northeast 195 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,240 has something called an expedition proposal process, 196 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,960 where every year athletes send in their proposal for an 197 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,720 expedition and The North Face funds it. 198 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,320 So I want to climb that, you know, K2, I want to climb The 199 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,480 North Face, you know, the Northside of what Congo, 200 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,680 whatever it might be. And The North Face either gives 201 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:01,840 you the thumbs up and they, you know, they support you. 202 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,800 And I said, I want to do this expedition that's running 50 203 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,480 marathons and all the 50 U.S. states in 50 days. 204 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,960 Like an expedition doesn't have to be on the side of a mountain. 205 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,600 It can be urban as well. And they said that's a great 206 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,040 idea, Let's do it. So that's how I ran 50 marathons 207 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,920 in 50 states in 50 days in North Face Trail shoes when most of 208 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,440 the races are on the road. Yeah, it still worked out. 209 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,200 Wow, that's pretty amazing. So we are here at a buyer to 210 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,080 buyer event and you have quite the experience of how to market 211 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,360 yourself, market a brand. What is your #1 tip for 212 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,560 everybody listening to this? Because now anything here in 213 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:40,600 running is a very competitive market. 214 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,480 You know, I think authenticity is the best place to start. 215 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,680 So being true to the values of your brand, whatever that brand 216 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:49,120 might be, I also think that don't get discouraged. 217 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,120 I mean, building a business is not a marathon, it's an ultra 218 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,080 marathon. And there is a lot of 219 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,240 competition in this room. But when you get out into the 220 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,280 general marketplace, remember that running is growing like 221 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:00,960 crazy. I mean, we're getting a slice of 222 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,880 an increasingly large pie. So stay, stay committed, you 223 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,360 know, being it for the long run and, you know, try to reach 224 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,080 runners and everywhere you can. So either social, if you have 225 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,600 retail partners, we'll put the retail partners, But you know, 226 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,800 it's, it's, it's a, it's a tough business, but it's a fun 227 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,680 business. It is a fun business, so tell us 228 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,480 a little bit about what you're doing nowadays and what business 229 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,280 ventures you are exploring. You know, right now I'm working 230 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:28,840 a lot with the Athens Marathon and the Greek Touristy Minion 231 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,320 organization to try to grow sports tourism in Greece. 232 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,200 I'm 100% Greek and I was appointed as the ambassador of 233 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,000 Greek, of global Greek tourism. So I thought what better tourist 234 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,800 to bring in the Greece and runners the running. 235 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,000 You know, the marathon was invented in Greece and it's 236 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,400 incredible running that there's a lot of trail runs there. 237 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,200 So that's kind of what I'm focusing on now. 238 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,680 Yeah. So you have a business where you 239 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:50,600 take tourists? Basically from. 240 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:52,880 All over the world and you give them a real. 241 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,120 Greek running experience. What is the real? 242 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,680 Greek running experience. You know, Greece is best 243 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:01,200 experienced on foot, so I call it foot tourism and these are 244 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,400 like 7 day programs and it's running every day, but not long 245 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,160 distances. I think the furthest distance we 246 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,720 cover is not even a half marathon. 247 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,480 It's 10 miles. So you know, about 18 248 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,880 kilometers. But we stop along the way. 249 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,520 There are cultural experiences. There's a lot of, you know, 250 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,040 ancient sites we visit. We go to marathon, which is 251 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,760 actually a place in Greece. A lot of people don't even 252 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,960 realize, and these are marathoners, that marathon is 253 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,880 actually a place. It's not just a race. 254 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,160 Yeah. So we tell them about the 255 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,440 history of the marathon. We tell them about PDPDS. 256 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,760 Yeah, that's really cool. And so you're basically now. 257 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,560 Mainly in Greece. Do you still go around the world 258 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,720 and run marathons? I still travel around. 259 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,880 I've run over 300 marathons now. Yeah, on all 7 continents, 260 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,360 twice. So yeah, I still love running 261 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,880 regular Rd. marathons. I mean, people are always amazed 262 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,240 when they see me at a road marathon, like in an Expo and 263 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:52,920 they ask are you going to run? I say, yeah, of course I'm going 264 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,280 to run there. You're going to run. 265 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,000 Like. You have a runner? 266 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,320 Yeah. So I'm like you. 267 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:58,880 I mean, if I'm at a marathon, they're going to run it. 268 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,640 Yes, love running marathons. Love running them not just for 269 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,120 speed, but also for the sights and getting to know cities. 270 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,800 And so with that, you're running the Greek Marathon this Sunday. 271 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,520 Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, the, it's the Athens 272 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:13,520 Marathon. So it's the original route of 273 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,800 PPD, the foot Courier, the foot messenger, the foot herald that 274 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,720 founded the marathon. So he, after the Battle of 275 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,760 marathon in 490 BC, he ran to Athens to announce the Greek 276 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,080 victory. And he proclaimed Nikki, Nikki, 277 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,040 we say Nike, Nike, which means victory in Greece. 278 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,240 Nike's the goddess of victory, people. 279 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,360 So, and that's where Phil Knight, the founder of Nike, got 280 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,480 his name, his inspiration. So he died at the finish, and 281 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,480 that's the marathon. And this kind of follows in his 282 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,600 footsteps 2500 years later. 2500 years later with a lot of 283 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,840 different products that we can now use for our recovery. 284 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,320 With that, what are your, I'm not going to ask you to name 285 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,720 recovery brands. What, what are your tips? 286 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,920 What technologies do you use to recover? 287 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,760 And how have you continued being so healthy even though you're 288 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,120 putting so many miles on your body? 289 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,920 You know, I've been a big proponent of ice. 290 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,800 So ice baths, I've been doing those for almost 20 years. 291 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,720 Compression, either compression boots or compression wear. 292 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,080 I'm also a big component of active recovery. 293 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,200 So the day after the marathon, the ultra marathon, get out and 294 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,160 run shuffle. I mean, even if it's just, you 295 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,360 know, one or two kilometers, get out and move your legs, drink 296 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,960 lots of water. So you want your urine to be 297 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,440 clear and don't do something that we're doing right now. 298 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,720 Don't sit down the whole day after a race and sitting is. 299 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,880 Sitting is pillar. Yeah, so keep moving. 300 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,400 Keep moving. And then what about your diet? 301 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,080 Because there's so many products out there, a lot of runners are 302 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,000 confused and you hear about this is good, that is good, but 303 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,640 sometimes it conflicts. Sometimes people say fast runs 304 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,480 are good, sometimes we will say they're not. 305 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,440 Where do you get your information and is it just 306 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,400 usually what works best for that person? 307 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:48,840 What do you do? I mean, I think there's some 308 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,360 general principles with nutrition, you know, if you're 309 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,480 following like I, I do a lot of what's called time restricted 310 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,320 fasting. So I don't eat for a certain 311 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,440 amount of time. That works for me. 312 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,280 Very low carbohydrate diet now works for me. 313 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,520 As I've matured, as I've gotten older, I found that I'm less 314 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,160 tolerant to high doses of carbohydrates. 315 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:08,960 So I'm really cautious about carbs. 316 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,280 But I, you know, I always say to when it comes to nutrition, 317 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,840 listen to everyone, follow no one. 318 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,040 So listen to what I do and, and experiment on yourself to see 319 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,960 what works best for you. I mean, there's, there's some 320 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,600 incredible products at this Expo and sports nutrition has 321 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,240 progressed so much since can continue to progress. 322 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,160 But again, you know you have to experiment with these things, 323 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,840 try these products and see which one works for you both during 324 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,680 the race, you know, pre race, during the race, post race. 325 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,240 Tell us about some rules that you have broken because I 326 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,080 remember when I first, right before I ran my first marathon, 327 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,400 it was 2009, I was running with the LE Rd. runners and you are a 328 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,200 guest speaker there. I remember that I was completely 329 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,840 intimidated by the distance of 26 miles and that they brought 330 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,160 you up. You are running ultra marathons 331 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,160 and you were telling us about the story that while you're 332 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,800 running, you would order pizza, you would roll up the pizza and 333 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,800 you would eat it. Yeah, I mean, I was 334 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,160 experimenting a lot in my early days and I just thought a 335 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,720 calorie was a calorie. So, you know, you're burning 336 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,920 10,000 calories during this run, so eat 10,000 calories. 337 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,920 It didn't matter what form it was in. 338 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,240 But yeah, I'm kind of famous for that story. 339 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,520 But I mean, here's the back story of that story. 340 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,640 There was a 200 mile, 12 person relay race and I wanted to do a 341 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,080 200 mile race, but they weren't, there weren't 200 mile races 342 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,800 back then. So I asked the race director, 343 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,680 can I just run as a team of 1? He thought it was crazy because 344 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,520 like, yeah, you can run the whole 200 miles if you think you 345 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,720 could make it. And I was out in the middle of 346 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,760 nowhere on this Backcountry Rd. in the middle of the night. 347 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,280 I didn't have a crew. I ran out of food, but I had my 348 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,720 cell phone, which is a Motorola flip phone, which was invented 349 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:39,920 before you were born, but anyway. 350 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,520 And I had a credit card, So I ordered a pizza. 351 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:43,920 I thought it was a logical thing to do. 352 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,960 And I told the guy don't slice it and make it with a really 353 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,840 thin crust. And then when you delivered it 354 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,560 to me, I just rolled it up in the box like a big pizzerito. 355 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,840 And I ate and I ate while I ran. And people say how did you eat a 356 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,000 pizza when you're running? But again, it was a 48 hour run. 357 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,680 It was running for 200 miles so it's not like it was 100 meter 358 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,280 Sprint or something. Right, right, right. 359 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,280 And I know that ultra is way different from the distance that 360 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,840 I prefer doing, which is marathons where you don't really 361 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,920 eat any solids, especially not if you're racing. 362 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,320 You take these gels, you take whatever you can. 363 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,200 So your digestive system can just digest the glycogen and 364 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,640 just fuel yourself. But ultras are different, right? 365 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,920 Because I've seen ultras of crude ultras and people actually 366 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,000 eat solid food. Yeah, I mean, it largely comes 367 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,120 down to what you can tolerate during an ultra marathon, 368 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,560 especially these ultra marathons that are more than 24 hours. 369 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,280 You know, it doesn't matter if it's a great sports fuel if you 370 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,720 if it's giving you indigestion or GI problems. 371 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,160 So a very common reason people DNF or GI problems. 372 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,160 So again, it comes down to experimentation. 373 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,080 Some some people like food. I mean, I just I accrued for a 374 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,240 guy that he competed in the Spartathlon degrees from Athens 375 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,000 to Sparta. So it's 246 kilometers, 153 376 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,720 miles. He didn't eat a single piece of 377 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,320 food the entire way. Literally, it was liquid 378 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,640 nutrition the whole way, that one, not one by the food. 379 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,200 And for 26 hours of running. And he did great. 380 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,560 I mean, he crushed. It so with his background, does 381 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,040 he do better when he actually eats salad or is that just how 382 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,880 he is adapted his body to perform? 383 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,880 That's pretty much how she like. It's actually she so she likes 384 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,880 to perform. She likes to fuel for these long 385 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,079 races, just with liquid nutrition. 386 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,960 It's better for GI tracks. She doesn't have GI problems if 387 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,520 she found a fuel she really liked and she stuck with it. 388 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:24,359 That's pretty amazing. Yeah. 389 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,880 So I guess what takeaways do you have from running ultras that 390 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,320 you then were able to implement in your business? 391 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,320 Because I also know that when you're running, the best ideas 392 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,560 come to you while you're running. 393 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,560 Yeah, I mean, the best inspirations and a lot of 394 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,600 problem solving gets done while you're running. 395 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,880 I mean, it's I don't like to listen to music. 396 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,200 I listen to audiobooks sometimes when I'm doing these really long 397 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,240 runs, but mostly I try just think through any sort of 398 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,560 strategic problems that I'm facing, life problems, business 399 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,720 problems. And it's also a great way to 400 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,520 network, as we're seeing here, you go with, you go out with a 401 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,600 group of runners and you become 1. 402 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,880 So it's a great way to do business with people that are 403 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,640 very like minded. Yeah, that's amazing. 404 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,000 And so then for my last question, I guess about business 405 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,480 to business, what, what is your biggest advice for somebody with 406 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,440 a new company that is here today? 407 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,640 What can they do to succeed in this crazy world of tons of 408 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,360 competitors? You know, have a, have a good 409 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,960 product, first of all. So it starts with the product, 410 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,240 have a plan, have a process and and then have the right people. 411 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,320 So I, I call it the four PS, but that's very essential for any 412 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,240 Business Network. Talk to people, keep an open 413 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,440 mind. You know, your business might 414 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,120 course correct. I mean, you might think you're 415 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:36,920 going in One Direction, you go in another direction. 416 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,720 So this is a great place to network. 417 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,080 I encourage you to, you know, walk the aisles, meet people and 418 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,520 and see what else other people are doing. 419 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,400 Perfect. So everybody always be. 420 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,960 Open minded thank you. Dean, so much. 421 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,120 And if anyone wants to check out what you're doing with Greek 422 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,600 tourism, where can they best find your information? 423 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,440 Just Google Dean, someone said. If you Google Dean, I'm the 424 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,560 first Dean that comes up. So just Google Dean if you want. 425 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,840 My last name is Carnassus, so put AK in there and, and you 426 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,960 know, I've got a website, I'm on social media, I'm not hard to 427 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,600 find. Great SEO by the way. 428 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,480 Thank you, Dean. Let's go running next time do 429 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,240 that. All right. 430 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,720 Thank you, Dean, for coming onto my podcast. 431 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,200 I had a great conversation with you before and after as well, 432 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,720 and I am looking forward to hopefully crossing paths 433 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,560 sometime in the future. Definitely. 434 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,080 I mean, with all the miles he's ran, he'll probably run by you 435 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,560 at some point. Yes, right. 436 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,840 I mean, running as many miles as he does, eventually you'll cross 437 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,640 path with him. But also, you know, kind of like 438 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,920 what he said in the interviews, always keep an eye out because 439 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,760 you never know, maybe he'll be at one of the marathons that you 440 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,680 are running and that's really, really cool. 441 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,400 Try to grab a picture with it. That would be cool. 442 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,200 Yeah. So lady, what's new with you? 443 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,720 Oh, nothing. I don't have any marathons on on 444 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,040 my calendar yet, so that's kind of nice. 445 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,080 I've been running a little bit less than normally, which I 446 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,760 think we all go through these ebbs and flows. 447 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,480 And I'm kind of in that little bit of a funk where, you know, I 448 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,200 start a Six Mile run and I want to quit at 3. 449 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,160 And since I don't have anything on the calendar, I do end up 450 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,280 quitting at 3. But I've been focusing on lots 451 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,560 of other running related things. As you guys know, we have our 452 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,840 YouTube channel, so I've been doing shoe reviews on there and 453 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,360 I'm also promoting our running camp still because we still have 454 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:22,680 some spots open for Kenya. So if you need to have somewhat 455 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,080 of a little push when it comes to running or you're interested 456 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,200 in running culture. Our Kenya trip takes place on 457 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,880 February 16th through the 25th, where we are going to Kenya, 458 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,720 attending a run camp. You can do up to two runs with a 459 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,880 pacer a day. Obviously you can run more if 460 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,440 you want to, but we're also doing tons of cultural immersion 461 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,480 stuff, visiting schools, visiting elite athlete camps, 462 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,520 etcetera. So it's going to be a really fun 463 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,640 time. Sounds like it. 464 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,320 Good experience I guess for people and you can probably do a 465 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,080 Safari too. Yes, we do have the add on 466 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,000 safari. Obviously if you're flying all 467 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,520 the way to Kenya, we have to go to the safari. 468 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,080 We actually did a safari this year when I went earlier in the 469 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,520 year with some friends and we only did a three day safari and 470 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,160 we end up seeing all the big 5. So that was good. 471 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,720 The big 5 animals, that is. Sounds like a good time. 472 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,240 Where do people go to find their to book their trip? 473 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,800 Yeah, so you can go to runcampkenya.com and if you 474 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,520 don't have time to write this down, just bookmark this episode 475 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,680 wherever you're listening, hopefully during a run. 476 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,240 And you can look at the show notes. 477 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,760 I'm going to be linking that in the show notes from now on. 478 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,640 Also if you want to check out more information, I'm not big on 479 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,280 Instagram. I try to post but I'm, you know, 480 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,600 more of a long form content person. 481 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,680 But I try to. Put some Kenya stuff up there as 482 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,200 well. So you're welcome to check that 483 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,600 out as well. Our Instagram handle is at 484 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,400 Running Podcast. You had some pictures from your 485 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,960 last Kenya trip too, so people can see a little bit about what 486 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,160 it's about. Yes, just keep scrolling down. 487 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,720 No, I think there's actually a highlight. 488 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,680 You know how you have your profile picture and then your 489 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,120 bio underneath that? There are the highlights and 490 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,720 there's definitely highlight there that says Kenya. 491 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,400 You can look around there a little bit. 492 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,800 Keep in mind that this is not the same running camp. 493 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,480 This one is going to be a little bit more organized because the 494 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,640 person we're hosting it with has been running, has been hosting 495 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,040 camps for a few years. But at least give you an idea of 496 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,360 what the area looks like. Yes, absolutely. 497 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,000 So you should do an episode now on burnout because you're 498 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,040 feeling a little burnt out. You know what? 499 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,280 That's a good idea. I might just do that, Ryan. 500 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,880 So. Look forward to a future episode 501 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,680 on Burnout. Yeah, I mean, there's going to 502 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,760 be a lot to learn from these burnout episodes, obviously. 503 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,120 I mean, I know how I work with burnouts. 504 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,000 I burnout for about a month, and the next month you probably 505 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,000 can't get me off the road again because I'll be running so much. 506 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,640 But right now I'm just kind of not feeling it. 507 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,960 But I don't know, it's like you have seasons in life and little 508 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,760 eras or whatever you want to call them, and I just kind of go 509 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,920 with the flow with that. You're in your offseason. 510 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,600 I'm in my offseason. For sure. 511 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,880 Anyway, yeah, so stay tuned for that and until next time. 512 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:57,000 Have a good week, you're running. 513 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Thanks for tuning in. For more information, go. 514 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,760 To WWW dot. Marathonrunningpodcast.com. 515 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,120 Or check us out. On all channels. 516 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:22,680 Yeah.