1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,960 You're listening to episode 168 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,800 In this episode, we're going to talk about pacing for a 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:16,640 marathon. This is the Marathon Running 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,200 podcast by Letty and Ryan from We Got The Runs. 5 00:00:19,610 --> 00:00:22,490 Join us in our running community for weekly content that is 6 00:00:22,490 --> 00:00:25,610 motivational, educational and inspirational. 7 00:00:25,770 --> 00:00:28,250 And let the Marathon Running Podcast take you from the 8 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:29,970 starting line to the finish line. 9 00:00:29,970 --> 00:00:37,850 And beyond. Hey, runners, and welcome to 10 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:41,210 episode 168. I'm your host, Letty. 11 00:00:41,410 --> 00:00:44,840 And I'm running and we do our weekly podcast on All Things 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,880 Running. And here we are again, Episode 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,320 168. So thank you for everyone that's 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,360 listening. We're going to try, we're 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,560 recording a video, we're going to try to put a video on YouTube 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,760 and Letty's also going to attach the podcast to that. 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,560 So if people want to watch it on YouTube, they can or give us 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,560 feedback. We were thinking we're going to 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,200 put it on with a little less editing for the video part of it 20 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,960 so that you can see all the mistakes that we make and how 21 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:12,590 many times we repeat. Things to try to get it right, 22 00:01:13,150 --> 00:01:15,390 but then Letty also does a bunch of editing afterwards to make it 23 00:01:15,390 --> 00:01:18,470 nicer. But so, anything new with you, 24 00:01:18,470 --> 00:01:22,190 Letty? Yeah, well, I finally bit the 25 00:01:22,190 --> 00:01:24,750 bullet. Ryan and I paid my fees for the 26 00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:28,630 Tokyo Marathon entry. So is there no chance of 27 00:01:28,630 --> 00:01:30,830 deferring anymore? I don't think so. 28 00:01:30,830 --> 00:01:34,310 So last year I got in by chance. I played the lottery to prove a 29 00:01:34,310 --> 00:01:38,000 point that it was harder to get into New York with a qualifying 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,000 time than Tokyo. And I was being sarcastic, but I 31 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,000 got in and then I also got into New York. 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,480 So it's going to be an expensive year. 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,840 But so last year they gave us an option to defer the entry 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,880 because of COVID regulations. And I jumped on that train. 35 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,640 They gave us 24 hours to do it. I deferred it and now you know 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,360 the entry for the entry payment for 2024 is due. 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,200 It's due now until the 15th and I finally paid it, and hopefully 38 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,520 I'll start getting excited about this marathon soon. 39 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,400 So everyone listened. So the lady can help pay for her 40 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,000 marathons coming up, right? Yeah, it's expensive. 41 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,200 Although today as I told you, I was online trying to look at 42 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:24,000 flights and they are $1500 as compared to the $2700 that it 43 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,800 was just a couple weeks ago. So I think I'm going to finalize 44 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:29,480 everything and book my flight tonight as well. 45 00:02:29,810 --> 00:02:32,810 Yeah, and the grand scheme of things, you know, at least it's 46 00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:36,210 not that expensive of a hobby. I guess he's much worse hobbies 47 00:02:36,210 --> 00:02:37,730 or more expensive hobbies you can have. 48 00:02:37,730 --> 00:02:40,330 So you see that now Wait till the credit card bill comes. 49 00:02:40,690 --> 00:02:45,610 Yeah. So for those of you guys that 50 00:02:45,610 --> 00:02:49,450 still want to get into Tokyo, the lottery hasn't started yet 51 00:02:49,450 --> 00:02:51,290 actually. So I wanted to give you guys the 52 00:02:51,290 --> 00:02:54,490 time frames. If you are a premium member of 1 53 00:02:54,490 --> 00:02:58,510 Tokyo, then your entry is between August 1st and August 54 00:02:58,510 --> 00:03:00,150 10th. And that's literally just 55 00:03:00,390 --> 00:03:04,350 citizens of Japan that have a membership where they pay one 56 00:03:04,350 --> 00:03:07,150 Tokyo every year for everybody else. 57 00:03:07,270 --> 00:03:12,630 They will be able to apply on August 14th till August 25th. 58 00:03:12,710 --> 00:03:18,230 So just hop on to their website marathon.tokyo.com I believe and 59 00:03:18,230 --> 00:03:22,390 then you can enter and commit. Let us know if you get in and we 60 00:03:22,390 --> 00:03:24,150 keep our fingers crossed for you. 61 00:03:24,940 --> 00:03:26,660 What's the format of the Tokyo Marathon? 62 00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:28,780 Is it a standard one? Cuz we just did the Stockholm 63 00:03:28,780 --> 00:03:32,460 Marathon and we did the run in, you know, the middle of the day, 64 00:03:32,460 --> 00:03:35,220 which was awesome. But is it a standard? 65 00:03:35,980 --> 00:03:40,380 Race standard as in timing. Or yeah, and everything. 66 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:45,100 I actually don't know at all. I know that they had some Kirks. 67 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:47,860 That kind of turned me off a little bit last year where they 68 00:03:47,860 --> 00:03:50,860 said that in order to run the marathon you have to enter your 69 00:03:50,860 --> 00:03:54,650 corral with your phone. And I didn't like that because 70 00:03:54,650 --> 00:03:58,930 I, you know, I support runners that don't want to run with your 71 00:03:58,930 --> 00:04:00,570 phone. You shouldn't have to, but they 72 00:04:00,570 --> 00:04:02,730 kind of make you. Another thing was that they said 73 00:04:02,730 --> 00:04:05,490 no throwaway clothes. Now, I don't know if that 74 00:04:05,490 --> 00:04:08,170 actually meant no throwaway clothes, but if you have think 75 00:04:08,170 --> 00:04:11,010 about it, the starting point is in a completely different area 76 00:04:11,010 --> 00:04:14,250 than the ending point. And it's in March, which is 77 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:17,890 colder weather over there. So I can't imagine showing up 78 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:22,019 with just your race gear on and not having anything else that 79 00:04:22,019 --> 00:04:25,820 you can then discard. So that, you know, was also one 80 00:04:25,820 --> 00:04:28,500 of the reasons, along with kids, school schedules and everything, 81 00:04:28,660 --> 00:04:31,140 that I wanted to defer to see if it maybe would get better for 82 00:04:31,140 --> 00:04:33,460 2024. But like I said, I haven't 83 00:04:33,460 --> 00:04:35,700 looked into it. I think that's part of why I was 84 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:37,580 curious because I do remember you telling me those other 85 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:39,060 things that were a little bit abnormal. 86 00:04:39,100 --> 00:04:42,260 But so anyway, excited I'm getting there. 87 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:44,340 I mean, I guess I will be excited tonight after I booked 88 00:04:44,340 --> 00:04:47,820 my flight. I'm looking forward to seeing 89 00:04:47,860 --> 00:04:51,220 what it's like, although I would have loved for you guys to come 90 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:54,900 with me. I would love to have gone to. 91 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:58,580 I think hopefully in the future we'll do more together. 92 00:04:59,420 --> 00:05:02,500 Yeah, it's hard to get off work for me and for the kids to get 93 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:05,340 out of school. Yeah, truancy laws are following 94 00:05:05,340 --> 00:05:08,110 us and the school system's knocking on our door. 95 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:11,550 We had a lot of absences last year, and we don't neglect our 96 00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:12,710 children. Quite the opposite. 97 00:05:12,710 --> 00:05:13,710 We take them traveling all along. 98 00:05:13,710 --> 00:05:14,670 We take them everywhere with us, yeah. 99 00:05:14,670 --> 00:05:16,550 And there's, I think they're getting a better education by 100 00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:18,590 going and traveling the world than they are just sitting in 101 00:05:18,590 --> 00:05:20,350 classroom all the time. Not that the classroom is not 102 00:05:20,350 --> 00:05:22,630 important, but I think that the combination of the two is 103 00:05:22,630 --> 00:05:23,590 important. Yeah. 104 00:05:24,070 --> 00:05:26,310 So, but this year we're trying to do a little bit better. 105 00:05:27,590 --> 00:05:31,050 With truancies, yes. Yeah. 106 00:05:31,530 --> 00:05:33,010 So what are we talking about today? 107 00:05:33,410 --> 00:05:36,810 Today, we're going to tackle the topic of pacing for your 108 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:39,650 marathon. It's a topic that I can't 109 00:05:39,650 --> 00:05:44,090 believe we haven't touched on yet and all 168 episodes. 110 00:05:44,410 --> 00:05:47,730 Because even though we talk about all sorts of training, 111 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:50,690 advice and everything, pacing is actually what it comes down to. 112 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:54,420 Well, I mean, attorney is right, attorneys preparing yourself for 113 00:05:54,420 --> 00:05:56,100 an event. But I think one of the most 114 00:05:56,100 --> 00:06:01,380 important things you can do is to pace appropriately in a 115 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:04,140 running event, right. So it's like it's like your 116 00:06:04,140 --> 00:06:07,100 performance in a way of the day of the events. 117 00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:10,580 You have a lot of other sporting activities where you have to say 118 00:06:10,580 --> 00:06:15,060 not make mistakes or not or focus or other types of sports, 119 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:17,460 right, You know, try to perform or perform well. 120 00:06:17,980 --> 00:06:20,140 But in running, you know there's not a lot of like. 121 00:06:20,530 --> 00:06:23,490 Split second decisions or other things that you're doing during 122 00:06:23,490 --> 00:06:25,290 the race. Really kind of one of the most 123 00:06:25,290 --> 00:06:28,330 important things you can do during a race is just to pace 124 00:06:28,330 --> 00:06:31,770 yourself appropriately, right? It's so funny that you say that 125 00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:35,410 because I always think about that when I'm trying to race a 126 00:06:35,410 --> 00:06:38,450 marathon and I'm standing at the starting line and I'm nervous 127 00:06:38,730 --> 00:06:42,290 and then the race starts and I cross the starting line and I'm 128 00:06:42,290 --> 00:06:44,410 just running. But it's like you said, it's 129 00:06:44,410 --> 00:06:47,810 kind of almost anti climatic. Like, there is nothing I have to 130 00:06:47,970 --> 00:06:50,850 jump over or avoid unless, you know, obviously here if you're 131 00:06:50,850 --> 00:06:51,970 in the back, but I'm just kidding. 132 00:06:52,210 --> 00:06:55,090 But there's nothing that you have to do except for run and 133 00:06:55,090 --> 00:06:57,370 your nerves. You calm down and you're like, 134 00:06:57,370 --> 00:06:59,970 OK, I just got to find a pace and then all I have to do is 135 00:06:59,970 --> 00:07:03,690 just run. But silver lining, doing that in 136 00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:08,610 a perfect manner in order to have that time management and 137 00:07:08,610 --> 00:07:12,410 enjoyment, because obviously you'll enjoy a race much more if 138 00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:16,810 you're performing well. You'll have that energy at the 139 00:07:16,810 --> 00:07:19,090 end. It's so important to just do 140 00:07:19,090 --> 00:07:21,200 that. You do make faster time, but you 141 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,560 also feel so much better at the end of the race when you haven't 142 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:28,040 just exerted all your energy. Yeah, OK, so who did you talk 143 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,240 to? So I contacted coach Erica 144 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,560 Whites. She is a super fast runner and 145 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,080 running coach. She's participated in the 146 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,040 Olympic Marathon Trials and hopefully will do so again in 147 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,120 2024. And we all start all kinds of 148 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,320 questions, including starting what what is your marathon pace 149 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,370 and how to find it? How do you balance that run? 150 00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:53,530 How do you start conservative? How do you train for those 151 00:07:53,530 --> 00:07:56,170 negative splits? What do you do in regards to 152 00:07:56,170 --> 00:08:00,010 weather and other challenges? We talked about pacing tools, 153 00:08:00,410 --> 00:08:04,450 the wall. We talked about anxiety and 154 00:08:04,450 --> 00:08:07,130 using Pacers and a lot of other things. 155 00:08:07,130 --> 00:08:09,330 So I think this is a pretty great interview. 156 00:08:09,330 --> 00:08:12,050 She had a lot of good answers that we can all learn from. 157 00:08:12,570 --> 00:08:16,250 It's cool because she's training at an elite level, you know, 158 00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:18,700 trying to get. To the Olympic qualifier or do 159 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:21,420 the Olympic qualifier. So she's going to be acutely 160 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:24,540 aware of like all the things that needed to do to get the 161 00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:26,820 time that she wants. And it's good to learn from her, 162 00:08:27,740 --> 00:08:31,540 cuz even people that whether or not they're as fast or not as 163 00:08:31,540 --> 00:08:34,780 fast, it's still good to learn from people that are doing well. 164 00:08:35,260 --> 00:08:37,500 Exactly. I think that's why she qualifies 165 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:40,220 as an expert for this conversation. 166 00:08:40,220 --> 00:08:42,659 So do you want to hop into it? Let's do it. 167 00:08:43,470 --> 00:08:44,910 All right. So without any further ado, 168 00:08:44,910 --> 00:08:46,470 we're now going to play our conversation. 169 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:52,910 With Erica Weitz. All right. 170 00:08:52,910 --> 00:08:55,910 So I'm back on with Erica Weitz. Erica, thank you so much for 171 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:58,950 joining me again. Yeah, Lenny, thank you so much 172 00:08:58,950 --> 00:09:00,590 for having me again. I appreciate it. 173 00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:02,390 I always love doing podcasts with you. 174 00:09:03,110 --> 00:09:05,190 Yes, me too. And especially this one because 175 00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:08,430 I know you have a lot of experience in coaching and also 176 00:09:08,430 --> 00:09:10,750 running races pretty fast yourself. 177 00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:15,180 So we want to hop into the topic of pacing today, and I'm going 178 00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:18,900 to start with my first question. Let's talk about marathon pace. 179 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:23,820 What is marathon pace? All right, so marathon pace is 180 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:26,980 the pace that you can run for a marathon, essentially. 181 00:09:27,380 --> 00:09:32,460 So usually it depends on like what level someone's at, but it 182 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:38,780 could be anywhere from like a minute to two minutes faster 183 00:09:38,780 --> 00:09:41,580 than your easy run pace. But depending on what level 184 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:45,020 someone's at, it could be even closer to the easy run pace. 185 00:09:45,620 --> 00:09:49,460 So usually when we're marathon training, we may not know 186 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:52,140 exactly what our marathon pace is going to be until like 187 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:55,700 getting closer to the race. So we do a lot of tempo runs 188 00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:59,620 leading up to that, and tempo runs are usually like 20 to 30 189 00:09:59,620 --> 00:10:04,560 seconds per mile slower than your. 5K pace currently and then 190 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,720 depending on what level you're at, it could be maybe like 10 to 191 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,000 15 seconds, someone's a little bit on the easier end and so 192 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,640 yeah, so it really depends. But I guess there's it's very 193 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,640 subjective too. So a lot of people think of 194 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,370 tempo runs as like. All different types of runs, but 195 00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:25,690 usually it's like your lactate threshold pace and it's like a 196 00:10:25,690 --> 00:10:29,570 pace that if you were to race like a one hour race, it's the 197 00:10:29,570 --> 00:10:31,530 pace that you'd be able to hold for that race. 198 00:10:32,050 --> 00:10:34,610 And then usually in practice you'll do it for like 20 to 30 199 00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:36,690 minutes. So it's like a quick sustained 200 00:10:36,690 --> 00:10:40,450 effort, but it's not as fast as like a speed interval workout. 201 00:10:40,450 --> 00:10:43,090 Like if you're doing 400 repeats, but it's not as slow as 202 00:10:43,090 --> 00:10:44,610 like if you were doing an easy run. 203 00:10:44,890 --> 00:10:47,650 So usually, like if you're doing easy run, you should be able to 204 00:10:47,650 --> 00:10:49,890 talk during it and have like a full conversation. 205 00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:53,650 If you're doing like a speed workout, maybe you can say like 206 00:10:53,650 --> 00:10:55,770 a word here and there. And then if you're doing tempo 207 00:10:55,770 --> 00:10:59,010 run, you should be able to kind of almost talk, but maybe like 208 00:10:59,010 --> 00:11:00,770 quick little phrases here and there. 209 00:11:01,730 --> 00:11:05,250 So yeah, usually your tempo run or your lactate threshold run is 210 00:11:05,250 --> 00:11:09,690 going to be like for myself, it's like 2025 to 30 seconds per 211 00:11:09,690 --> 00:11:13,850 mile slower than my current 5K. And then for maybe a beginner 212 00:11:13,850 --> 00:11:16,650 starting off, it might be closer to their 5K, like 10 to 15 213 00:11:16,650 --> 00:11:20,730 seconds. Slower and then how many seconds 214 00:11:20,730 --> 00:11:24,130 is your tempo run faster than your marathon pace? 215 00:11:24,810 --> 00:11:28,050 Oh yeah. So that really depends on how 216 00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:31,210 fast you are. But I would say usually it's 217 00:11:31,210 --> 00:11:37,330 like 20 to 25 seconds faster than your marathon pace. 218 00:11:37,330 --> 00:11:41,170 So usually you want to get used to doing a lot of a lot of runs 219 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:44,730 at that tempo pace. So we might start off like. 220 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,480 Someone doing like maybe 2 by 10 minutes at that pace with like a 221 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,280 one minute jog in between and then 20 minutes and then you 222 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,560 might even do like tempo mile repeats, which will have you'll 223 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:58,760 have like a really quick rest in between and you'll be going at 224 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,120 that that pace that's like threshold pace. 225 00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:06,180 All right, So now that we know what your marathon pace could or 226 00:12:06,180 --> 00:12:11,180 should be, let's talk about balancing your start and your 227 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:13,100 finish. So basically you know how they 228 00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:15,940 always say start conservatively and finish strong. 229 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:18,340 Tell us what they mean when it comes to marathon racing with 230 00:12:18,340 --> 00:12:20,540 that. Yeah, that's a good question. 231 00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:23,540 So when you're going into a marathon, like there's a lot of 232 00:12:23,540 --> 00:12:25,900 prep that goes into it and a lot of planning. 233 00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:28,870 And you want to make sure that you have like a good race plan 234 00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:31,350 going into it. I know before I had a coach, 235 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:33,830 like I would just wing it and I would always have a positive 236 00:12:33,830 --> 00:12:36,790 split, which is where like your first half is faster than your 237 00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:38,270 second-half. And it's really easy to do. 238 00:12:38,830 --> 00:12:42,190 So it helps to have that plan so you know like what your 239 00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:45,390 predicted pace is going to be. So for example, if it's going to 240 00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:49,710 be 7 minutes, let's just say random example, then if you know 241 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:51,550 that you're probably going to hit around that 7 minute range 242 00:12:51,550 --> 00:12:53,910 for the marathon based on your training and based on 243 00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:56,470 everything, usually you would want to go. 244 00:12:56,550 --> 00:13:01,950 Go out like maybe 7:10 to 7:15, like go out like 10 to 15 245 00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:04,950 seconds easier for your first 5K. 246 00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:08,990 And it sounds like crazy, but like that's kind of like a warm 247 00:13:08,990 --> 00:13:11,790 up, you know. And then if anything you'll be 248 00:13:11,790 --> 00:13:13,750 able to either maintain that or pick it up. 249 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:16,550 And I would say like, so if you think you're going to run seven, 250 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:19,710 you start with like 7:10 to 7:15 and then you may be locked into 251 00:13:19,710 --> 00:13:23,950 that like 7705 and then that way when you you can like assess how 252 00:13:23,950 --> 00:13:26,230 you feel at like the half marathon mark. 253 00:13:26,510 --> 00:13:29,750 Maybe mile 15 miles 17, mile 20. I used to. 254 00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:32,670 I like to do checkpoints during the race where I'm like, all 255 00:13:32,670 --> 00:13:35,710 right, if I feel they still feel good, I can pick it up a little 256 00:13:35,710 --> 00:13:39,190 bit and then I'm like, if I I don't feel amazing then I'll 257 00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:42,190 just maintain it and then that way you have that option. 258 00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:45,470 But every time in like 1/2 or full that I've gone out like 10 259 00:13:45,470 --> 00:13:49,350 to 15 seconds slower with the 1st 5K I've always had a 260 00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:51,750 negative split, which is where the second-half is faster than 261 00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:53,570 the 1st. And I've always felt like 262 00:13:53,570 --> 00:13:56,850 amazing during their race. So it's definitely better than 263 00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:00,570 going out too fast because mentally and physically that's 264 00:14:00,730 --> 00:14:02,930 draining on your body. And a marathon's a long race, 265 00:14:02,930 --> 00:14:05,360 you know? Yeah, No, absolutely. 266 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,360 And I I'm gonna ask you a followup question with that 267 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,320 because I myself have done a ton of time, the whole positive 268 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,640 splitting. So when I'm racing and I'm going 269 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,840 out and I run, I get fatigued at mile 15. 270 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,240 But then when I did what you suggest, and obviously you 271 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,680 weren't coaching me then, but I'm just saying when I did 272 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,300 something like that, where I started out one second slower, I 273 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:32,460 was never able to add mile 15. Mentally convince myself that 274 00:14:32,460 --> 00:14:36,180 now it's time to go faster because inevitably your legs are 275 00:14:36,180 --> 00:14:40,100 tired after 15 miles. Yeah, that's true. 276 00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,260 I think that a lot of that is, a lot of it is mental, but it's 277 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:45,460 physical also. So you have to practice it in 278 00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:50,860 practice like, you know, doing those like 18 to 20 mile runs 279 00:14:50,860 --> 00:14:52,540 are really going to help. They're really going to be 280 00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:55,380 beneficial and doing like those really long workouts or even 281 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,320 having like. Your long run where you do like 282 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,240 hard effort towards the end of your long run, like that's going 283 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,200 to be really, really beneficial. And like when I went into this 284 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,920 negative split race and I've run many positive split races too, 285 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,920 like I had to learn the hard way. 286 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,080 I would say like my first five marathons I've, I run my first 287 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,120 10K like probably 40 seconds per mile faster than the rest. 288 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,280 But you know, you got to learn somehow. 289 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,200 But yeah, I think like. Just having the confidence in 290 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,520 practice and building that confidence, you know, you can do 291 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,560 it in a race. So, like, I mentally prepared 292 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,200 myself for my best marathon. My coach is like, you're going 293 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,440 to take off at mile 13. And I'm like. 294 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,800 And then I I'm like thinking in my head this whole time, even 295 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,080 like weeks before, like 2 weeks before, I'm like, I'm going to 296 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,520 take off at mile 13. And literally I was like, all 297 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,200 right, let's get to mile 13. I took off. 298 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,170 Literally. So like you really just you have 299 00:15:47,170 --> 00:15:50,130 to 100% believe in yourself and that might be a little bit 300 00:15:50,130 --> 00:15:54,330 aggressive sometimes I have that my athletes just like wait until 301 00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:57,850 mile 20 even and if they feel good at 20 then they can push it 302 00:15:57,850 --> 00:15:59,730 just a little bit. And usually if they end up 303 00:15:59,730 --> 00:16:02,490 pushing it, they end up staying like the same pace as they were. 304 00:16:03,290 --> 00:16:05,090 So that's, you know, that's a benefit too. 305 00:16:05,450 --> 00:16:08,250 But yeah, I think if you've had it in the past where you slowed 306 00:16:08,250 --> 00:16:11,730 down at mile 15, then you just have that in your head like, oh 307 00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:13,130 shoot, this is where I slowed down. 308 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:16,580 So it's just like breaking through that and you gotta break 309 00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:18,900 through it in practice and then you'll you'll end up doing it in 310 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:21,140 race too. I like that a lot. 311 00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:24,860 I like that tip for negative splits that you tell yourself 312 00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:28,420 that at a certain mile point you will speed up because then 313 00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:31,660 inevitably you're thinking about that and you're trying to 314 00:16:31,660 --> 00:16:34,340 preserve in the beginning more so. 315 00:16:34,340 --> 00:16:36,860 I never looked at it that way. So that's really cool. 316 00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:39,230 Yeah, it is. It's really good. 317 00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:42,310 And like in a shorter race, you can't always do that because 318 00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:45,910 like a 5K so fast. And I've actually read that it's 319 00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:48,950 actually beneficial to go out a little bit faster in the first 320 00:16:48,950 --> 00:16:53,310 mile, maybe like 3% faster. But a half marathon, a marathon 321 00:16:53,310 --> 00:16:56,030 you have, you have more time. It's much more beneficial to go 322 00:16:56,070 --> 00:16:57,870 out easier. Yeah. 323 00:16:57,870 --> 00:17:00,630 And so then the way to do it is, as you mentioned, to do it in 324 00:17:00,630 --> 00:17:02,510 practice. So now that everyone is lining 325 00:17:02,510 --> 00:17:05,069 up for the fall races, it's a good idea that when you do your 326 00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:09,490 long runs, maybe tell yourself hold off until a certain mileage 327 00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:11,369 point and then try if you can go faster. 328 00:17:11,810 --> 00:17:14,369 Yeah, that's why I have a lot of my athletes do like progression 329 00:17:14,369 --> 00:17:17,569 runs, which like I say for the first half of the run you're 330 00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:20,890 going at like your easy pace and then like gradually progress in 331 00:17:20,890 --> 00:17:22,890 the second-half. And it's kind of like one of 332 00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:25,530 those lower pressure workouts to where? 333 00:17:26,530 --> 00:17:28,329 You know, you're not like, OK, I don't have to hit a certain 334 00:17:28,329 --> 00:17:31,170 time, just going to go by feel. But then you get used to getting 335 00:17:31,170 --> 00:17:34,010 faster as you go. And then sometimes it'll be like 336 00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:38,050 a more structured progression run where like miles like 10 to 337 00:17:38,050 --> 00:17:42,370 13, you're going to go this pace and then 13 to 15 or 16, you're 338 00:17:42,370 --> 00:17:43,930 going to go like a little faster pace. 339 00:17:44,170 --> 00:17:46,010 And then maybe there's a rest in between. 340 00:17:46,210 --> 00:17:49,050 But that'll be really helpful for, like, just building your 341 00:17:49,050 --> 00:17:51,450 mental confidence and your physical too, because then 342 00:17:51,450 --> 00:17:53,770 you're used to running, like, harder on tired legs. 343 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:56,260 I love it. That's it for today, guys. 344 00:17:56,900 --> 00:18:02,020 That's all we needed. To know, so I do have a few more 345 00:18:02,020 --> 00:18:04,300 questions. So now let's move on to 346 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:06,780 different course types, right? Because you have the downhill 347 00:18:06,780 --> 00:18:09,380 races, you have the flat races, you have the rolling hill races. 348 00:18:09,540 --> 00:18:13,860 How does your pacing change when you are considering what type of 349 00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:16,720 terrain you're running on? Yeah, yeah. 350 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,360 So usually if there's a hill like, well, you definitely want 351 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,200 to practice the hills because then there wouldn't be as much 352 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,680 of like a difference in your time. 353 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,440 Most likely if you're more used to the hills. 354 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,240 But usually the hills are going to be like the slower they can 355 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,200 be slightly slower in pace. So like usually, I like to map 356 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,680 out a race plan for my athletes and then maybe give them like an 357 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,610 extra. 5 to 15 seconds, depending on how fast they are 358 00:18:41,170 --> 00:18:42,770 for that mile that there is hills. 359 00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:45,970 But I always give like little cues for the hills, like lean 360 00:18:45,970 --> 00:18:49,130 forward, shorten your stride and quicken it and pump your arms. 361 00:18:49,530 --> 00:18:52,370 And like when I remember I say those three things to myself and 362 00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:54,730 it actually does help you go up like quicker. 363 00:18:55,450 --> 00:18:57,890 My coach taught me that in college and like it changed my 364 00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:59,290 life. It was amazing. 365 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,120 Yeah. And then you might not slow down 366 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:02,720 too much on hills if you're used to them. 367 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,720 But the good thing is for every uphill, there's also a downhill. 368 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,840 So every time you go up, you know that you you can probably 369 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,960 make up for it on the downhill, but you don't want to go too, 370 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,720 too fast on downhills. Also, like, especially early in 371 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,440 the race like the Boston Marathon. 372 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,960 You know, I always tell people in Boston, like, you got to go 373 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,440 out a little, like, you got to hold yourself back because that 374 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,200 can like take a toll on your quads later. 375 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Yeah, but you definitely want to make sure that you're. 376 00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:29,390 Just like, give yourself some slack for the hills. 377 00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:33,990 And it's OK to like, if you slow down a little bit, OK, perfect. 378 00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:36,230 So that's something that you can control. 379 00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:38,910 You can always look at the chorus map and see the elevation 380 00:19:38,910 --> 00:19:41,270 chart. Let's talk about weather and 381 00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:44,870 weather conditions, not just cold weather, but also wind and 382 00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:46,830 rain. How do you, what do you do when 383 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:47,990 that happens? When you're running? 384 00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:50,750 How does your pacing change? Oh yeah. 385 00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:53,510 Well, sometimes the rain can really help you and hopefully 386 00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:55,190 you have a tail and not a headwind, but. 387 00:19:55,780 --> 00:19:58,460 You never know, but usually you just want to be as prepared as 388 00:19:58,460 --> 00:20:01,540 possible. So like, I know a lot of 389 00:20:01,540 --> 00:20:03,820 marathons I run. It was crazy cold and I'm used 390 00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:06,580 to everything being warm in Florida, but that could be 391 00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:08,100 really beneficial. So you always have to kind of 392 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:09,540 look on the bright side of everything. 393 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:12,820 And then like, if it's raining before the race, make sure you 394 00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:15,900 have a poncho. And then it's very cheesy, but 395 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:18,780 and then you take the poncho off right before the race and then 396 00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:21,180 you know the rain will just like kind of brush off of you. 397 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:22,140 You don't have to worry about it. 398 00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:25,660 But if it's like really hot and humid, it's OK to adjust the 399 00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:27,420 pace. And I've had to do that for some 400 00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:30,780 athletes that have run like some really hot humid races like in 401 00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:34,500 March or during that time in Florida, or it's crazy hot. 402 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,400 So you have to, you definitely have to cut yourself slack for 403 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,800 the heat and humidity, because even even people that you think 404 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,120 are superhuman are affected by the heat and humidity. 405 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,680 That does affect us all. Sure does, yeah. 406 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,360 And I agree with you with the whole training in the heat and 407 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:51,960 then going somewhere cold because suddenly you feel like 408 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,880 you're that much faster and you can breathe the air because it's 409 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,520 no longer humid. Yeah, that's right. 410 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:58,320 I know. So. 411 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,520 And you actually do get a benefit from training in the 412 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,170 heat and humidity because like, you just get used to that. 413 00:21:03,210 --> 00:21:04,970 And then once you're right, you fly. 414 00:21:04,970 --> 00:21:08,210 When you get to the cooler temps and everyone else is still 415 00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:10,450 thinking, it's hot and you're like, this is heaven. 416 00:21:11,650 --> 00:21:13,690 So true, So true. All right. 417 00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:18,850 So let's talk about some other effective pacing tools, if you 418 00:21:18,850 --> 00:21:21,820 want to call them that. A lot of us look at our watch 419 00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:24,900 every 10 seconds and it's a lot. It's annoying. 420 00:21:25,180 --> 00:21:28,180 So we have those GPS devices, mile markers. 421 00:21:28,820 --> 00:21:31,740 Tell us how to use them best in order to pace yourself 422 00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:34,860 efficiently. Yeah, depends on the course. 423 00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:38,380 And like as long as if you're going through woody areas, 424 00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:40,740 sometimes the garment doesn't work as well or it's not as 425 00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:42,900 accurate. I know some people say that the 426 00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:45,460 chorus watch has like it's accurate in the woods. 427 00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:47,620 I I tried it once but it was hard to get used to. 428 00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:51,460 But I have the garment and like usually I just will go by the 429 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:54,700 mile markers. And like for Chicago, I know 430 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,340 it's very a lot of buildings. So you can't go by your Garmin, 431 00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:00,460 you just can't look at it because then you'll get crazy 432 00:22:00,460 --> 00:22:03,500 because it's not accurate. So that I just would try to like 433 00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:06,260 split my watch every mile whenever I saw the mile marker. 434 00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:08,980 But that's where you kind of have to rely on feel. 435 00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:11,820 But if your Garmin is working and you're in a good course 436 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:15,620 where you don't have any shaded or buildings, I like to set my 437 00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:18,460 watch to beep every half mile instead of every mile. 438 00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:22,060 So that way I know like what pace I'm at for the half mile. 439 00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:25,260 And then I know if I'm like what pace I'm supposed to be around. 440 00:22:25,420 --> 00:22:27,860 So if I'm a little fast or a little slow, I can adjust and 441 00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:30,980 like either pick it up or slow it down to round out the mile. 442 00:22:31,540 --> 00:22:34,420 So that really helps a lot too. And but yeah, you don't want to 443 00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:38,060 get too fixated on your Garmin, so if you're able to, I know 444 00:22:38,060 --> 00:22:40,980 this is really hard for a lot of runners, but me too. 445 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:44,630 But if you can go out on a run without your Garmin, like 446 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:47,070 that'll be really beneficial because then you just if it's 447 00:22:47,070 --> 00:22:49,870 like an easy run. I was actually lucky that my 448 00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:52,030 Garmin died in my workout the other day. 449 00:22:52,590 --> 00:22:56,150 It was my first workout back in a couple weeks and my Garmin 450 00:22:56,150 --> 00:22:58,710 died right before the workout. But luckily I had two people I 451 00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:00,510 was running with. So they told me like when to 452 00:23:00,510 --> 00:23:03,470 speed up and slow down. But I feel like I had a better, 453 00:23:03,470 --> 00:23:07,550 like mental mentally workout, Mentally better workout because 454 00:23:07,950 --> 00:23:10,150 I wasn't like looking at my watch all the time and I wasn't 455 00:23:10,150 --> 00:23:13,630 like freaking out if I was going too slow or something like that, 456 00:23:13,870 --> 00:23:16,830 or maybe trying to go faster than need to go. 457 00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:19,670 So yeah, you wanna use the Garmin as like a guide, but 458 00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:22,590 don't like don't always rely on it and don't fixate on it. 459 00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:24,470 Okay. I love it. 460 00:23:24,550 --> 00:23:25,270 Love it. Perfect. 461 00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:27,870 And I love that you set your watch to be every half mile. 462 00:23:27,870 --> 00:23:30,020 I'm gonna. Try to do that as well. 463 00:23:30,180 --> 00:23:32,980 I want to add one more thing about the track because I didn't 464 00:23:32,980 --> 00:23:35,780 realize that I had to let people know this because I'm so used to 465 00:23:35,780 --> 00:23:38,340 just like knowing that the tracks, the Garmin's not 466 00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:41,980 accurate on the track. So basically if you're doing 467 00:23:41,980 --> 00:23:44,660 like mild repeats like because I've seen some of my athletes 468 00:23:44,660 --> 00:23:47,260 like stopping in the middle of the track and like what's going 469 00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:49,180 on, they're like, oh, that was the end of the repeat. 470 00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:51,740 I'm like, no, no, no, like because the Garmin wacky on the 471 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:55,020 track, you don't go by that. You just go, you go by the track 472 00:23:55,020 --> 00:23:57,500 distance and then just like split your watch. 473 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:03,800 So I'm very old school was putting my watch like I I don't 474 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,960 like to set my Garmin like workouts in the Garmin. 475 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,720 I know a lot of people do. But then in that case like if 476 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,560 you need to adjust the workout or change something like you 477 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,400 then it messes everything up. So I just like to literally 478 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,400 press that bottom right hand button and you can even glance 479 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,360 at your time and see what it is or just check it all out later. 480 00:24:22,270 --> 00:24:24,470 Yeah, that's a good idea because then you're also kind of 481 00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:28,070 learning how the effort should and should not feel, right? 482 00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:29,790 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 483 00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:31,990 Yeah. All right, perfect. 484 00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:35,830 All right, moving on to Mental techniques for marathon pacing. 485 00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:40,550 Tell us how we can use our minds to help pace. 486 00:24:41,230 --> 00:24:44,910 Yeah. So I think like basically doing 487 00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:47,380 it in practice and like preparing yourself mentally in 488 00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:49,900 practice is going to help to best prepare you for the race. 489 00:24:50,060 --> 00:24:51,940 So that way when you get to the race, you're not like trying all 490 00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:54,060 these new tactics and thingy things in your head. 491 00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:58,780 But just like being happy with where you're at and knowing 492 00:24:58,780 --> 00:25:02,300 like, you know, maybe you're not at the level you want to be at 493 00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:05,140 for the race, but maybe you still have like 12 more weeks, 494 00:25:05,140 --> 00:25:08,260 that's OK. Not like trying to go out and 495 00:25:08,260 --> 00:25:11,660 like a crazy pace or maybe even your goal pace yet until you're 496 00:25:11,660 --> 00:25:15,870 there And just like being OK with where you're at, working 497 00:25:15,870 --> 00:25:18,270 towards getting to where you want to be and then once you're 498 00:25:18,270 --> 00:25:22,150 like pretty consistent at a certain pace, then maybe setting 499 00:25:22,150 --> 00:25:24,390 the bar a little bit higher and working towards a little faster 500 00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:26,990 pace. But I say just like we'll always 501 00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:30,230 relaxing in the beginning of every workout will help you to 502 00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:32,230 do that in the beginning of a race too. 503 00:25:32,790 --> 00:25:35,390 I know I have some athletes that will like in the beginning of 504 00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:37,790 training, like if they they're first starting out, they might 505 00:25:37,790 --> 00:25:40,430 go out a little fast and in like a workout. 506 00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:43,860 So I always say like relax in the first one and if you can go 507 00:25:43,860 --> 00:25:47,780 out slower for your first Rep, that's like that's ideal because 508 00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:49,900 then you'll either be able to maintain it or pick it up for 509 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:52,300 the rest. Oh, that's a good idea. 510 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:55,420 Yeah, because in that way it also builds on your confidence. 511 00:25:56,180 --> 00:25:57,140 That's true. Yeah. 512 00:25:57,420 --> 00:26:00,540 And sometimes, like, I don't like, I like to push athletes 513 00:26:00,540 --> 00:26:03,260 and set like challenging goals. But at the same time, in the 514 00:26:03,260 --> 00:26:06,020 beginning, it might even be beneficial to set like a less 515 00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:08,980 aggressive goal to start. And then they know they can hit 516 00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:11,780 that and then you can start like bumping it up a little bit, inch 517 00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:13,590 by inch. I like it. 518 00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:17,670 All right, let's talk about navigating the wall and mental 519 00:26:17,670 --> 00:26:23,030 fatigue, how proper pacing can help you reduce that impact of 520 00:26:23,030 --> 00:26:25,390 that wall. Yeah, I heard about the wall 521 00:26:25,390 --> 00:26:28,910 before my first marathon and and because my dad, he was big 522 00:26:28,910 --> 00:26:31,310 runner, he'd tell me about it and he's like, usually people 523 00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:34,070 hit the mall wall at mile 20 and so am I. 524 00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:36,990 So I was actually, like thinking about it during the marathon. 525 00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:40,030 And like, I I reached mile 20 and I was like, where's the 526 00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:41,630 wall? There is no wall. 527 00:26:41,870 --> 00:26:44,720 I was like like people keep talking about this wall, but 528 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,600 there is none. And I was so happy and I 529 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,040 actually went faster at that point because I realized that I 530 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,760 had broken through that wall. And so there's actually, there's 531 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,040 like a funny drill that I've done before at one of my at a 532 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,340 conference I went to with Arbonne and it was like, they're 533 00:27:00,340 --> 00:27:03,420 talking about breaking through a wall, like with your career and 534 00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:05,580 stuff. So they like, held a, like a 535 00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:08,580 piece of wood. Somebody holds it and you have 536 00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:11,660 to have to take your hand and like break it and you have to 537 00:27:11,660 --> 00:27:13,260 break this piece of wood with your hand. 538 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:15,700 And I was like, shoot, what if I break my hand trying to do it? 539 00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:18,060 But I guess it's like a piece of wood that, like, it's not going 540 00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:19,540 to hurt you if you just hit it really hard. 541 00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:22,700 And so that like, symbolized breaking through a barrier or 542 00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:25,180 breaking a wall. So you could do that before your 543 00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:28,710 marathon and like just like hold up a like a piece of wood, but 544 00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:30,950 make sure it's something that you can actually hit your like 545 00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:33,030 breakthrough. Have somebody hold it and try 546 00:27:33,030 --> 00:27:36,590 not to hit them and then just like break the wall and then 547 00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:39,990 you're like and then it kind of it's not like a metaphor but it 548 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:43,470 will help you to maybe mentally to know that you can break 549 00:27:43,470 --> 00:27:46,750 through any wall I. Love it or just use something 550 00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:48,870 else. Maybe like, I don't know, a 551 00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:51,470 piece of tape like you would use to like run through the tape at 552 00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:53,550 the finish line. You can break through that or 553 00:27:53,550 --> 00:27:56,820 just like, yeah, something that like symbolizes you break it 554 00:27:56,820 --> 00:27:58,700 through the wall and just know that you're going to, you're not 555 00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,300 going to hit any wall. Do you feel like you do? 556 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:02,420 You're just going to run through it? 557 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:06,100 Yeah, very true, very true. So proper pacing would obviously 558 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,100 help with. That Yeah, yeah, proper pacing 559 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:12,020 for sure. Like if you're going out smart 560 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:15,100 and you're, you know, your pace, you go out, you know, maybe a 561 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:18,460 little bit more conservatively that first 5K and then like lock 562 00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:21,700 into a pace, you know. And then as you feel good later 563 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:23,140 in the race, you can always pick it up. 564 00:28:23,970 --> 00:28:26,050 And like I said, most of the time if you feel like you're 565 00:28:26,050 --> 00:28:28,730 picking it up, you're probably either maintaining the same pace 566 00:28:28,730 --> 00:28:31,210 or you might be getting a little faster, yeah. 567 00:28:31,690 --> 00:28:33,290 All right. So you were alluding to it 568 00:28:33,290 --> 00:28:37,810 earlier a little bit, how in the first five of your marathons you 569 00:28:37,810 --> 00:28:40,770 weren't pacing properly. So tell us how race experience 570 00:28:41,050 --> 00:28:44,970 and pacing can help you later on when you become more of a 571 00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:47,940 seasoned marathoner. Yeah, yeah, definitely. 572 00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:50,580 So like for those first five marathons, like, I didn't have a 573 00:28:50,580 --> 00:28:53,820 coach. So finally when I I decided I 574 00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:56,860 was going to get a coach, he told me about like what pace I 575 00:28:56,860 --> 00:28:59,580 was ready to to go for. And so. 576 00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:01,940 And I like that because I was like before I never knew I would 577 00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:04,780 just run whatever I thought and it would always be way too fast 578 00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:06,580 in the beginning. And so I actually ended up 579 00:29:06,580 --> 00:29:09,700 maintaining that pace for the entire race and maybe like a 580 00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:12,220 little bit faster in the end. So that was really good. 581 00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:14,540 Ever since then, I realized, like, you really do want to have 582 00:29:14,540 --> 00:29:16,940 a plan. And then anytime I have, I've 583 00:29:16,940 --> 00:29:20,820 had a plan after that, which is almost every marathon, I've been 584 00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:23,580 able to do much better. And like, I don't think and 585 00:29:23,580 --> 00:29:26,140 maybe a couple positive splits, but they weren't too significant 586 00:29:27,220 --> 00:29:29,100 except for one. There's one that I didn't have a 587 00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:31,100 plan. And it was also because I got 588 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:33,260 injured like six weeks before with the Olympic Trials 589 00:29:33,260 --> 00:29:35,980 marathon, unfortunately. So that was a big positive 590 00:29:35,980 --> 00:29:40,720 split, But hey, happens. Right then you walk away and you 591 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,360 learn from it and then you teach your clients about it. 592 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,760 So that's definitely you can turn it into something positive. 593 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,360 Maybe also address the psychological pacing challenges 594 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,320 that people can face, for example, when they have race 595 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,640 anxiety or stress related. Yeah, that's good. 596 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,240 Yeah, there's and that happens a lot. 597 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,600 And like, I've been there too, where you get really anxious and 598 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,300 stressed about, Oh my gosh, what if I fall off or what if this 599 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:09,100 happens. But you just have to, like, 600 00:30:09,180 --> 00:30:12,100 relax and not worry so much about it. 601 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:16,100 If there's if you can find a way to put the take the pressure off 602 00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,500 of yourself and just, you know, have fun with it. 603 00:30:19,660 --> 00:30:21,220 Remember why you started running. 604 00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:25,620 Because a lot of people forget that and they just like they 605 00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:28,410 just they start getting really crazy about it and then they 606 00:30:28,410 --> 00:30:31,130 forget why they love it and like why they do it in the 1st place. 607 00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:34,410 So remember that and then just remember that it's better to go 608 00:30:34,410 --> 00:30:37,290 out easy and then work your way up. 609 00:30:37,570 --> 00:30:40,250 Or, you know, just try to stay as consistent as you can. 610 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,040 I like it perfect. All right, so let's talk about 611 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,560 Pacers. The big marathons have Pacers. 612 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,880 I learned the hard way that not all Pacers are equal. 613 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,720 So I've decided that whenever I would run a race and try to use 614 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,120 Pacers, I would talk to them about how they approach their 615 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,800 races, because some of them are really aggressive with the pace 616 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,440 and some of them aren't. Why don't you give us some tips 617 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,240 on how to deal with Pacers, whether to use them or not and 618 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,280 all that. Yeah, I've been a Pacer before. 619 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:10,440 I love it. So much fun. 620 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,520 And you know, I learned actually the hard way because I went out 621 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,600 a little quick and first time I ever paced, but I helped some 622 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,120 people get to PR, so that was cool. 623 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,520 So it's good to. Yeah, you don't always want to 624 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,200 rely on the Pacer because I also remember my first experience 625 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,280 with like my first marathon, 2011. 626 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,560 It was the New Jersey marathon and I found there were a lot of 627 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,840 Pacers around. But like, I think like the seven 628 00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:37,990 30 Pacer was in front of the 7:15 Pacer and then like it was 629 00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:40,310 just really off. So you can't rely on it. 630 00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:44,590 But if you happen to run with them and you know you're you're 631 00:31:44,590 --> 00:31:46,790 on pace, then they can be very helpful. 632 00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:50,670 So always look into the races and see like they do have a 633 00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:55,430 Pacer and then you know, try to like maybe hang behind them if 634 00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:57,870 it's a pace that you want to hit and then work your way up to 635 00:31:57,870 --> 00:31:59,750 them. That way you're not going out 636 00:31:59,750 --> 00:32:02,590 too fast, and usually the Pacers are. 637 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,840 They're set to go pace that's 30 seconds faster than the goal 638 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,200 pace. So if it's like a 130 half then 639 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,760 they'll be 1/29/30. So you know that for the most 640 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,080 part, if they're doing it right, if you stick with them, then you 641 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,800 should be on pace. All right. 642 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,960 So do you tell your athletes to use them, or do you tell them 643 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,160 just rely on whatever we did in training? 644 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,040 Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. But like, I usually want them to 645 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,280 run their own race just in case the Pacers going too fast. 646 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,980 Usually they're not going too slow, but in a marathon, there's 647 00:32:31,980 --> 00:32:35,460 been times when Pacers might even drop out because it's a 648 00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:38,380 marathon. But so I would say like, usually 649 00:32:38,380 --> 00:32:40,820 if there is like a Pacer and they're going for that pace, I 650 00:32:40,820 --> 00:32:43,300 tell them to kind of hang behind them or like at the back of the 651 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:46,660 pack and then, you know, go with them until a certain point. 652 00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:51,580 If they feel good at like mile 15 to 17, they can maybe go or 653 00:32:51,580 --> 00:32:54,980 me usually wait till like mile 20 depending on their fitness 654 00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:58,250 level and then they can like kind of you know, go ahead of 655 00:32:58,250 --> 00:33:01,330 the pacer if they feel good. Otherwise just try to hang with 656 00:33:01,330 --> 00:33:03,610 them. All right, cool. 657 00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:08,130 So two more questions. One of them is about increasing 658 00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:10,730 pace while maintaining effort. Maybe you can tell us how 659 00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:13,530 training can enhance your speed without increasing that 660 00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:16,370 perceived effort. Ooh, yeah. 661 00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:21,110 So it's good to like, you know, do different types of workouts. 662 00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:23,430 Like usually if you have a coach, they're going to give you 663 00:33:23,670 --> 00:33:26,750 like intervals, Like give you temple runs, maybe marathon pace 664 00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:30,190 or half marathon pace runs. And then it's good to like even 665 00:33:30,190 --> 00:33:34,390 repeat those same workouts again and see, like, you know, kind of 666 00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:37,950 compare how much faster you got. Maybe if they're a couple weeks 667 00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:41,630 apart or even week to week. Like sometimes I've had coaches 668 00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:44,060 in the past that have given me like the same workout, like on 669 00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:47,540 Mondays, the next Monday and the next Monday, and I ended up like 670 00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:51,060 increasing pages each week. So that's helpful. 671 00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:56,100 And just yeah, I think just if you like tempo runs, like 672 00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:59,500 gradually increase the maybe the distance of the run and try to 673 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:01,700 maintain that same pace like for the following week. 674 00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:03,940 And you kind of gained confidence from the week before 675 00:34:03,940 --> 00:34:06,500 that you did it before. Now it's only gonna be 5 676 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:09,880 minutes, you know, longer. Or if you do make it 5 minutes 677 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,400 longer, maybe for the first five, if you're doing like a 20 678 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,199 minute tempo one week, then 25 minutes the next week, maybe 679 00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:17,639 your first 5 minutes is like a little bit slower. 680 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,360 So you can work on that, like going out conservative, and then 681 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,000 try to maintain that same pace for like 20 minutes, like 682 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,719 gradually building up. That'll help. 683 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,040 And then usually you'll feel like you'll feel pretty good and 684 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,520 you're running even longer or maybe even a little faster. 685 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:33,520 I love it. Those are great tips. 686 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,719 Thank you. And let's talk about. 687 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,400 Our last question, the importance of patience while 688 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,520 you're running a marathon, pacing yourself. 689 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,840 Oh yeah, And a lot of people aren't patient. 690 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,080 And now I'm not like the most patient as I thought I was. 691 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,280 But it's so important when you run, especially distance, like 692 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,120 you have to be patient because you can't. 693 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,640 Nobody can Sprint a marathon, not even Kip Chogi like that. 694 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,120 For, you know, his four minute pace, whichever pace he goes, is 695 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,320 crazy fast. Or 2430. 696 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,380 That feels not pretty hard to him. 697 00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:08,980 So even he's not sprinting a marathon. 698 00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:13,020 So you gotta, you gotta relax and just know that usually the 699 00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:17,740 adrenaline will kind of keep you going and just keep smiling and 700 00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:20,260 that will help too. And yeah, really enjoy the race, 701 00:35:20,260 --> 00:35:24,380 have fun, check out the scenery if you can. 702 00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,660 And then even like, I mean, I've talked to people in the 703 00:35:27,660 --> 00:35:31,760 beginning of a marathon that I was racing and I know that seems 704 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,800 crazy, but that means I was going a comfortable enough pace 705 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,240 in the beginning that I wasn't going to like burnout at the 706 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,680 end. So that's that's pretty crazy 707 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,800 because usually in practice you can't talk with that pace. 708 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,400 But then in a race it's like everything's just different. 709 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,360 So the more you relax in the beginning with the adrenaline, 710 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,000 it's going to feel like way easier, more to give in the end. 711 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:53,280 I love it. Thank you Erica so much for. 712 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,280 Talking to us about pacing and maybe you want to tell our 713 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,240 listeners where they can find you, if they want to get in 714 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,240 touch with you and also perhaps follow you because you are 715 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:05,320 hopefully going to be racing the Olympic Trials next year. 716 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,200 Woohoo. Thanks, Lenny. 717 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,560 Yeah, I'm excited. The Olympic Trials are my 718 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,200 hometown of Orlando, so that's going to be a blast and a half. 719 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,840 I know that course like the back of my hand. 720 00:36:15,610 --> 00:36:18,010 Yeah. So if anyone wants to find me, 721 00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:21,450 which I would hope, we can connect on social media through 722 00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:24,130 Instagram, It's at exclusive Erica. 723 00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:27,490 There's two E's in the middle and then they can also follow. 724 00:36:27,490 --> 00:36:30,410 We have a team page on Instagram, it's at team 725 00:36:30,410 --> 00:36:33,970 exclusive Endurance. And we have Facebook. 726 00:36:34,290 --> 00:36:39,250 Facebook is actually run with Erica or Erica Weitz WEITZ. 727 00:36:39,970 --> 00:36:44,610 Or you can shoot me an e-mail at erica@exclusivedashendurance.com 728 00:36:45,070 --> 00:36:47,310 if you have any questions or want to set up a consultation. 729 00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:51,070 I do 330 minute consultations for anyone who might be 730 00:36:51,070 --> 00:36:55,190 interested in coaching or or leveling up their run game and 731 00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:58,510 maybe training for to qualify for Boston or just like get a PR 732 00:36:58,510 --> 00:37:01,150 or win their age group. Let me know and I'm here to help 733 00:37:01,150 --> 00:37:03,630 you and I'm excited that we got to do this. 734 00:37:03,630 --> 00:37:05,390 Letty. Thank you so much. 735 00:37:05,390 --> 00:37:06,470 Me too. Thank you. 736 00:37:10,270 --> 00:37:12,870 Thank you Erica for this conversation. 737 00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:17,250 I loved it and hopefully you guys took notes. 738 00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:21,770 If not, go to our show notes and you will find some pointers 739 00:37:21,770 --> 00:37:23,450 there. You can also hop to our 740 00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:26,890 Instagram at Running Podcast or our website 741 00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:32,570 www.marathonrunningpodcast.com. We'll have a blog up summarizing 742 00:37:32,850 --> 00:37:36,670 a lot of this information. Leave comments if you do or you 743 00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:38,590 want to give us feedback, please do. 744 00:37:38,590 --> 00:37:40,630 We love the feedback. We're trying to make things as 745 00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:43,310 best as we can for the people that are listening and be as 746 00:37:43,310 --> 00:37:45,270 helpful as possible. That's always the goal. 747 00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:47,270 That's a pretty good summary, Ryan. 748 00:37:47,310 --> 00:37:52,030 And a comment was left that we have a tendency to interview 749 00:37:52,030 --> 00:37:55,630 fast people because we always say, of course we can learn from 750 00:37:55,630 --> 00:37:58,710 somebody who's faster, but what if that's actually not the goal? 751 00:37:58,870 --> 00:38:02,470 What if the goal is to just have a wonderful marathon and maybe 752 00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:04,630 there is something that we can learn from someone who? 753 00:38:04,750 --> 00:38:06,910 Is at the back of the pack. Yeah, of course. 754 00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:08,830 So we're going to talk to somebody who's the back of the 755 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:12,670 Packer, who will tell us how it is, give us their perspective 756 00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:15,990 and maybe even give us some pointers that we can also learn 757 00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:17,310 from. Sounds good. 758 00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:18,990 I'm excited. Me too. 759 00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:21,030 And with that you want to close it out. 760 00:38:21,390 --> 00:38:23,190 Have a great week of running, guys. 761 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,000 Thanks for tuning in. For more information head to 762 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,960 www.runningpodcast.us and as always have a great week of 763 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:37,360 running.