1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,240 You're listening to episode 193 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,760 In this episode we're going to talk about the power of the 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,600 three weeks build up and one week recovery. 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,000 This is the Marathon Running podcast by Letty and Ryan from 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,760 We Got The Runs. Join us in our running community 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,440 for weekly content that is motivational, educational, and 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,440 inspirational, and that the Marathon Running Podcast take 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,520 you from the starting line to the finish line and beyond. 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,560 Hey Hey, runners, and welcome to Episode 193. 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,440 My Name Is Letty. My name is Ryan. 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,000 And we are the host of the Marathon Running Podcast, the 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,920 weekly podcast where you learn about all things running. 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,880 Welcome back if you are a long term listener and hello and 14 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,080 thank you for tuning in if you are new. 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,040 Thank you for all the feedback that we get. 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,600 Please give us feedback, let us know what you like or don't 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,600 like, and it's. I think one of my biggest 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,120 inspirations to do this is like hearing that it helps people. 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,480 I think that's really awesome. Yes, I agree. 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,280 That's always nice to get that feedback and know that someone 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,800 out there is listening. Thank you for answering Ryan's 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,360 trivia last week. Pinky and the Brain was the 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,200 winner and I saw some of you guys commenting on that on 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,440 Spotify before I accidentally, I don't know, I I I guess I 25 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,440 deleted it. I can't find it anymore. 26 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,280 But. You can't give shout outs now. 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,880 I can't give shout outs, but you who've commented, thank you, we 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,920 appreciate. It the reference was Pinky and 29 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,240 the brain, yes. So there's people out there that 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,080 are as old as me. So this episode's sponsored by 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,520 You Can, which is a company that sells energy supplements for 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,440 runners. So Letty, can you tell us how 33 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,280 you learned about you Can? Yeah, so I'd heard about you Can 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,240 in the past. I know that they sell all sorts 35 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,960 of things for runners, as you said, gels, bars, powders and 36 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:04,480 electrolytes. And so I started trying them out 37 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,960 in November. As with the purpose of shifting 38 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,960 my strategy when it comes to nutrition, because I've never 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,240 really fuelled any of my runs very much. 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,040 I would just pick up whatever gel there was and didn't really 41 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,040 pay attention to it. But for this training for Tokyo, 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,400 which is coming up, I decided to do it a little bit different. 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,880 And I've been consistent with them. 44 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,640 And I figured, why not trust them? 45 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:31,560 If Emily, Susan, Sarah Hall, Emma Bates, and Kiera D'amato, 46 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,680 all top American female runners, trust them. 47 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,520 So did you like it so far? So far, I really like it. 48 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,000 This is the first time. Like I said, I've been 49 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,040 consistent with any type of fueling. 50 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:48,680 Usually I haven't been, and what I do like about the gels is the 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,560 taste of them. It's very chalky and not too 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,320 sweet. I feel like you can run low 53 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:59,640 mileage with all sorts of fuel, and usually when you hit mile 10 54 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:02,920 and up it tastes different because you're, you know. 55 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:05,280 Your taste buds, I guess, are different after you've done some 56 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,480 strenuous running for a while. And with you can, it's something 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,240 that I can definitely keep down, which is important. 58 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,320 That is important. Yeah, so yeah. 59 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,240 And so then I've been using them, I've been using their pre 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,400 workout drinks too and I've been feeling pretty strong. 61 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,880 So so far so good. So one of the benefits of 62 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,160 sponsorship, and what most people probably want to know is 63 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,080 sometimes you can get discounts if you sponsor with them. 64 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,000 Did you manage to arrange any discounts? 65 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,680 I did, absolutely. If I like a product. 66 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,800 I would love to share with our listeners if they are struggling 67 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,080 to figure out their nutrition game. 68 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:48,320 So if you go to youcan.co/MRP Marathon running podcast, you 69 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,440 can get a pack of four for free. All you have to do is pay for 70 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,960 shipping and then if you've already experienced with Youcan 71 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,600 and you're a fan, then we also have a discount code MRP which 72 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,800 stands for Marathon Running Podcast for a 20% off on your 73 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,640 order. So if anyone's interested in 74 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,280 mixing up their nutrition, you should give it a try and let us 75 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,080 know if you like it or not. Some of the things I like about 76 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,880 them just from looking at which I haven't really had a chance to 77 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,720 try any of it because lady's hogging it so far. 78 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,280 But what I've noticed is main the main carb source is from 79 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:24,600 like a cornstarch, which is kind of interesting too. 80 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,400 That's why it tastes so chalky. Yeah. 81 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,520 And I I do like that chalky taste. 82 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,520 I feel like it's very mild on your stomach. 83 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,040 But I think we're going to have a whole episode next week on 84 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:37,720 energy metabolism and all that interesting stuff that I don't 85 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,760 know nothing about at this point where we can maybe ask the 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,720 interviewee some questions specifically about this gel and 87 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,280 how that works with the slow release carbohydrates and I 88 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,120 guess fast release carbohydrates. 89 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,000 I don't know and I'm super curious about what can work and 90 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,720 why and how. So stay tuned for that. 91 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,080 So today's podcast. Yes, today's podcast. 92 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:06,080 We are talking about a topic which is recovery phases in a 93 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,760 training block. Ryan, you've heard me talk about 94 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,880 that in the past. I've been very lucky to have 95 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:18,640 been coached by someone who normally coaches elites from the 96 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,920 80s. But he never really did a lot of 97 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,360 recovery weeks in his trainings that he prescribed to me. 98 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:31,720 And now that I've been dipping into different type of training 99 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,440 methods just to learn what else is out there, I find that a lot 100 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:40,320 of coaches prescribe workouts where you have this circle of 101 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,520 three weeks on and then have a week for recovery. 102 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,080 So we're going to talk about having training set up that way 103 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,000 where you have that specific recovery week. 104 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,520 I know you've been doing that so far. 105 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,400 How do you liked it so far? I actually have loved it because 106 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,600 I feel like when I was being coached by my previous coach, 107 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,200 having consistent high mileage was one getting me super 108 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,640 fatigued and two more than anything. 109 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,920 The mental burnout for me was high. 110 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:13,000 So I would do 70 mile weeks, probably a month and a half out 111 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,400 of the marathon, and then when I would get closer to a month, I 112 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,800 would just be done. I would literally come up with 113 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,800 any kind of overuse injury just to get away from that. 114 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,320 So I don't even know if those ovary injuries were really that 115 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,440 bad, but a lot of it was also mental. 116 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,360 Whereas now that I'm following something that is more three 117 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,280 weeks on, you know 70 plus miles in that last week, I feel strong 118 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:41,760 and then I really look forward to the down week that follows 119 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,960 that. It'll be interesting to see how 120 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,760 you feel as you get closer to the marathon date 'cause this is 121 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,040 the first time you've been trying it. 122 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:49,960 Right. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. 123 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,320 And this is, well, I am currently in a down week and 124 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,160 then I have three more weeks of very high miles and then I have 125 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,040 the taper time. But so far it's been great to 126 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,320 have that just from a mental standpoint and also looking at 127 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,280 my garment And again that comes with a you know how do you say 128 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,760 it comes with a grain of salt? You don't know if you should 129 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,920 trust the Garmin or not. But my Garmin has been saying my 130 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,680 VO2 Max has been going up and it says on there your lighter load 131 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,320 helps you recover and get stronger. 132 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,040 The Garmin actually told me that. 133 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,640 So I was like, thank you Garmin, this is great. 134 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,720 It does make sense to take some breaks every once in a while. 135 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,480 You know it's interesting. The timing of those breaks is 136 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,120 probably, you know, something that they've researched or had 137 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,320 and know more about. Otherwise, you know be very 138 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,320 difficult to what's the, what's the perfect amount of timing, 139 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,400 you know, in terms of breaks versus challenging yourself and 140 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,360 and growing. So you grow, take a break, grow, 141 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,880 take a break. It'll be interesting to see if 142 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,440 that changes over time or it stays 3 weeks and one week. 143 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,360 So you have Chris Knighton on again, right? 144 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,920 Yes, Chris Knighton is our expert guest for this and he 145 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,760 writes training programs that have that three weeks on and one 146 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,800 week off, obviously depending on who his athlete is, right? 147 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:07,600 Yeah. So what'd you get into during 148 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:08,960 your conversation? Yeah. 149 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,880 So we just hopped deeper into what happens to your body 150 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,000 physiologically during that recovery phase. 151 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,560 We talked about adaptations. We talked about how much your 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,480 mileage could be reduced during that down week and what to 153 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,480 expect during that down week, what you could do, should you do 154 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,600 more strength training, Should you do cross training? 155 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,280 What, what about your nutrition and that sort of thing? 156 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,520 So really interesting stuff. You want to get into it. 157 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,679 Yeah. So without further ado. 158 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,880 We are now going to play our conversation with Chris 159 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,559 Knighton. All right. 160 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,120 So I'm back on with Chris Knighton. 161 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,880 Chris, thank you and welcome back. 162 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,120 Hey lady, thanks for having me back on the show again. 163 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,520 I always enjoyed being here. I know you've become a very 164 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,800 frequent person because you know you have very good advice, and 165 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,240 our listeners always appreciate that as if you don't know that, 166 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,840 But I'm sure you do. And today we bring you on to 167 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,720 talk about the topic of recover weeks or down weeks as you call 168 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,600 them. You know those weeks that will 169 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,120 happen after you do some up weeks, but I'll let you explain 170 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,720 that maybe a little bit better. And yeah, so perhaps you can 171 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,240 tell us a little bit of how where those down weeks come from 172 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,440 or when they come in. Sure. 173 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,880 So I'm going to, we're probably going to use two different terms 174 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,760 interchangeably during this podcast. 175 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,720 So the term down week and the term recovery week, these both 176 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,560 are the same thing when we're talking about them today. 177 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,880 And basically the idea here is that over the course of your 178 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,040 training, you're going to have some weeks that are higher 179 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,080 mileage and higher intensity and then you're going to have some 180 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,840 weeks that are lower mileage and lower intensity. 181 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,040 And there's many reasons for having these so-called down 182 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,320 weeks. So I'll kind of get into what 183 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,320 those are. I I by no means invented this. 184 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,520 But the reason why I started putting them into the training 185 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,120 plans that I write for my athletes is is for many reasons. 186 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,720 When I first started coaching, I would typically, you know, just 187 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,320 gradually increase people's mileage over time. 188 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,080 You know, you listeners to the show have probably heard of 189 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,200 things like the 10% rule where they where it's suggested that 190 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,680 maybe you can increase your mileage by about 10% every 191 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:27,600 single week. And you know, over the course of 192 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,840 training you may just gradually build up, build up, build up, 193 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,560 build up. But what I realized after maybe 194 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:36,320 my first year or two of coaching is there's so many benefits both 195 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,480 mentally and physically to every, let's say roughly after 196 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:47,280 every three weeks of training to take one down week before you 197 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,440 then go up to higher mileage in the following week. 198 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,800 So you know, we can we can talk during the show about how to 199 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,640 structure them, how much lower your mileage should be, how much 200 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,520 lower your intensity should be. We can kind of get into all of 201 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,320 the the the benefits of doing this. 202 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:08,920 Where would you like to start? Letty. 203 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,000 Yeah. So, so basically we're talking 204 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,360 about those weeks that are between those blocks of higher 205 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,840 intensity. And I guess we could start by 206 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,560 talking about this arbitrary number of being three to four 207 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:26,280 weeks. Obviously when there's coaching 208 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,560 plans out there, unless you are directly working with a coach 209 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,200 who knows whether you are an 18 year old boy or a 7 year old 210 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,320 lady, you know that coach will know you and will know how much 211 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,560 time you need at what point between what training blocks. 212 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,840 But maybe talk to us where that number of three to four weeks 213 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,240 ballpark kind of comes from to begin with? 214 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,080 Sure. So that's the number that I 215 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,760 settled on. And the reason why is is, is 216 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,680 because frankly, I want to help my athletes stay healthy and 217 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:02,920 avoid injury while enjoying this sport for as long as possible. 218 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,240 Training at a high level, doing speed workouts, tempo, runs, 219 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,160 higher mileage, that kind of thing. 220 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 And you know, pushing your body to the limit is physically 221 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,920 demanding. And you know, we all know that 222 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,760 sometimes despite our best intentions, we get hurt from 223 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,680 running or we encounter setbacks. 224 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:28,400 So to help alleviate my athletes potentially getting hurt and 225 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,560 reduce the chances of that, I started putting down weeks into 226 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,560 their training program. You know, I wanted to keep them 227 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:38,200 healthy. So proactively, whether they're 228 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,760 feeling good or bad, I just figured, hey, after every three 229 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,840 weeks of training, let's do an easy week. 230 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,200 There's a lot of reasons for this. 231 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:56,040 So one thing to keep in mind is that, and I think runners often 232 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,400 forget this, is that workouts do not in and of themselves make us 233 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,240 stronger. Workouts tear our body down, you 234 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,720 know, damage the muscles and damage our cells, cause stress 235 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,080 on our bones, you know, lower our immune system, all these 236 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,360 sort of things that are actually bad for our body. 237 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,760 But then when we rest afterwards, it's our body 238 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,840 recovers and it grows back stronger. 239 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,240 So one of the big benefits of having these down leaks is after 240 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,080 let's say three weeks of hard training, you get a week that's 241 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:35,000 very, very easy and it's almost like a little taper inside your 242 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,680 your overall training cycle where you can fully rest that 243 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:42,680 week, grow stronger and get better and get better and 244 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:45,040 stronger and more prepared for what's to come next. 245 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,240 The reason why I chose three weeks. 246 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,640 So normally for the average athlete, if you're listening to 247 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,000 the show, I would say you want to do 3 weeks of normal training 248 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,280 workouts, normal mileage followed by one down week. 249 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,000 So that creates a four week cycle, 3 weeks high, one week 250 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,720 low, and then you repeat that. Three weeks high, one week low. 251 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,520 Sometimes I do 2. As an alternative, I do 2 weeks 252 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,280 high, one week low, two weeks high, one week low. 253 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,040 This could be perhaps for an athlete, maybe maybe a masters 254 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:25,080 athlete, someone over the age of 50, perhaps maybe even in their 255 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,280 40s, or or just anyone who thinks that they need extra 256 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,480 recovery. You know, if if maybe you think 257 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,480 that you've been injury prone in the past, this could also be a 258 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,800 good option for you. It's really just something to 259 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,360 experiment with. And then, you know, sometimes it 260 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,280 does make sense to push it a little bit. 261 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,120 So I will sometimes do four weeks of hard training followed 262 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,400 by 1 recovery week. You know, I may do this like at 263 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,000 the end of a marathon training cycle, for example. 264 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,560 Maybe you've been following the three-week high, one week low 265 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,320 cycle for a few months, but then in your peak month, right before 266 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,160 your taper begins, maybe you do 4 weeks, so a full month at your 267 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,920 highest mileage and then you taper. 268 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:15,480 This is extending the period of high intensity and you know, 269 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,840 maybe this is pushing the boundaries and a little bit more 270 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,840 risky, but you know there may be times that you think that's 271 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,200 worth it. So you know, with caution and 272 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,520 time to write with, maybe you could do a full month or four 273 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,480 weeks of high intensity, but you just want to experiment with 274 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,840 this sort of stuff and be careful with it. 275 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,520 Usually, even for my my youngest athletes, I'm a high school 276 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,880 coach as well. Even my youngest athletes, I do 277 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:50,200 like to give them a a down week after every three weeks, even 278 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,600 though they recover so quickly. You know, people in their 20s 279 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,320 listening to this, you recover a lot quicker than I do in my mid 280 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,600 30s. But still, I think just to be 281 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,200 proactive, it's good to do more than three hard weeks followed 282 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,520 by an easy week and that's kind of where the number came from. 283 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,720 You know, it's it just seems to work. 284 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,280 Yeah. And I I can only attest to the 285 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,680 mental break that you were mentioning earlier. 286 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,840 As you know, I've been kind of following your suggestions when 287 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,120 it comes to marathon training. And I've really ramped up the 288 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,560 mileage this time around. And I honestly feel like the 289 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,160 only reason I was able to upkeep this high mileage was because 290 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:32,080 there was this low intensity, you know, cutback week insight. 291 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,320 So that it helps you get there because there is a, you know, 292 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,040 it's not this huge 12 week training block where there is 293 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,840 never a break. And then you can focus on really 294 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,920 doing your workouts better knowing that you're going to 295 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,240 have a little bit of time to relax and it gets you excited 296 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,600 again for the next block of hard miles. 297 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,320 So yeah, I wanted to attest to that, but you also mentioned 298 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,680 that this is there, this week is implemented to keep you healthy. 299 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,680 Maybe. Can you tell us not just what 300 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,720 keeps you healthy, but also what other physiological adaptations 301 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,480 occur in our bodies that will help us get stronger? 302 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:15,640 Why this happens? Yeah, so, so if you think of the 303 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,440 four week cycle that I was explaining, so you have your 304 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,640 three hard weeks followed by your one easy week. 305 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,760 I generally keep people's mileage pretty constant during 306 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,359 that three hard weeks. So let's just suppose you're 307 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,120 going to be running 35 miles a week during your hard weeks. 308 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,760 And then you know what? Let's say we cut that by about, 309 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,240 I don't know, 25% during the down week. 310 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,680 So in the down week, let's say you're doing 20, it'll be like 311 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:47,200 26 miles. So the first week of that cycle 312 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:51,040 where you're doing 35 miles, let's say that that's the first 313 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,880 time you've done 35 miles before. 314 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,160 Previous to this, maybe you're doing 30, now you've bumped up 315 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,880 to 35. That first week is going to be 316 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,960 pretty hard on your body. Your body's going to be adapting 317 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,360 to the added stress. You're running more than you've 318 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:08,440 ever done before, so you know that's going to stress your full 319 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,760 skeletal muscular system. You know, mentally you're going 320 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,320 to have to adjust to like being out there more and getting 321 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,800 comfortable with that. You may feel a little tired in 322 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,120 that first week of training, more so than you did in the 323 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,200 previous four week cycle. By the time you get to the 324 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,080 second week of doing 35 miles, you've already been through a 325 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520 full week of it. Your your body is starting to 326 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,520 adapt to it, but you know it's still a little bit challenging 327 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:41,000 once you get to that third week. By this point you've already 328 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,520 done it for two weeks in a row. So hopefully by this point your 329 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,440 body is getting pretty well adapted to it and and by this 330 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,520 point you're like, OK good, I can run 35 miles. 331 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,480 I'm confident with this and like it doesn't feel too hard on my 332 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,520 body. But that said, by the end of 333 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,160 that three weeks, you've now run three weeks of 35 miles, which 334 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,920 in this hypothetical example is the most you've ever run. 335 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,520 And you've maybe even doing one or two workouts a week plus a + 336 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,720 a long run. So you've really done a 337 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,480 three-week block of training. That's the hardest you've ever 338 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:18,920 done For anyone who's listened to an episode of Marathon 339 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,520 Running podcast about the taper, I think. 340 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,560 I think we've done one, me and you, Letty, we talked about all 341 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,160 the benefits of the taper. So then when you taper, this is 342 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,920 when you reduce your mileage and it allows your your full fitness 343 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,800 to come out for what comes at the end of the taper. 344 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,360 Often when we're training really hard, our full fitness is 345 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:43,040 suppressed. So when we're doing hard 346 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,440 workouts, when we're doing higher mileage, we actually 347 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,240 can't run to the best of our ability because we're so just 348 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,480 tired from the cumulative fatigue of all that hard work. 349 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,240 When you then take the down week and you drop your mileage by, 350 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:04,040 let's say, roughly 25%, you during that week kind of go 351 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,000 through a taper. You your body adapts. 352 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,680 So your body gets a bit of a rest, You're not running as 353 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,240 much. So you know everything can start 354 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,920 to heal. And as it heals, it starts to 355 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:23,000 grow stronger because you're running 25% less or so. 356 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,440 You're you're, you become to, you start to freshen up a little 357 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,040 bit, you start to feel good. And hopefully by the end of that 358 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,960 week, you're recovered and you're at a stronger point than 359 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,520 you have ever been in the past four weeks and you're kind of 360 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,520 peaked and ready to then take on the next block of training, 361 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,960 which may be even harder. So that that rest week has given 362 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:54,280 you a time to adapt fully to the training, to rest recovered, go 363 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,520 grow stronger. And then by the end of it, maybe 364 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,840 you're able to take on maybe 5 miles more. 365 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,240 So maybe you could go from 35 to 40 miles a week and now you're 366 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,600 ready for three weeks hard at 40 miles and then that cycle just 367 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,560 kind of repeats, you know, for four or five months or however 368 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,840 long your your training cycle is before you get your taper. 369 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,520 That's kind of A at a high level how it works. 370 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,280 OK, that's great. So basically that resting will 371 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,560 allow your body to heal because you're not using specific 372 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,200 muscles as much and you know they're they're allowed to grow, 373 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400 muscle fibers adapt and you get stronger. 374 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,040 Yep. And it's not long enough to 375 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,840 really to lose any fitness at all. 376 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,400 So typically when someone tapers before their goal race, I cut 377 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,360 their mileage by like 50%, so like half. 378 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,120 But in these down weeks, I only cut it by 20 to 25%. 379 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,520 So it's not that much. You're not dropping it that 380 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,440 much, but you're dropping it enough to give your body the 381 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,760 rest and recovery that it needs while maintaining your fitness 382 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,840 and and getting physically stronger and and mentally get a 383 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,640 little bit of a break from those hard workouts so that then you 384 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,160 feel ready to then take them on when they come back in the 385 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,600 following week. OK, perfect. 386 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,360 So as to that number that you just mentioned and mentioned 387 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:27,560 earlier about 2520 to 25% of a reduction, where is that number 388 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,120 coming from? What if you want to rest more 389 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,000 than that? How is that going to affect you? 390 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,120 Is it just to not lose fitness or you know what? 391 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:39,440 What number does it really matter? 392 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,920 Yep, yeah, yeah. I think you can play with it, 393 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,880 you know, and and this number, where does it come from? 394 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,840 I don't know. It just kind of seems to work. 395 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:57,000 You know, someone can take someone can, as we know from 396 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,720 like the taper phase. You know, if someone reduces 397 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:06,360 their mileage by half for, you know, 10 days before their 398 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:10,120 marathon, for example, they're going to be in a peak level of 399 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:12,280 fitness and able to run the best marathon in their life. 400 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,600 You know, I I some of the things I've seen online, going through 401 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,200 a proper taper before, a marathon might be able to 402 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,000 improve your performance by, you know, up to 5% or something like 403 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,520 that. So it makes a pretty big 404 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,960 difference versus, you know, not tapering and being tired. 405 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,480 So we know that tapering allows you to peak and reach a full 406 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,080 level of fitness it and run faster than had you not done it. 407 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,520 So we know that resting and running less is not for a short 408 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,760 period of time for like 10 days to two weeks is not going to 409 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,520 make you lose any fitness. It's actually going to help you. 410 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:53,400 So if we apply this logic to the down week in the middle of a 411 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,200 training cycle and we know that we're not even going to go like 412 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,000 10 days or two weeks, we're going to just do a week, so just 413 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,680 one week. So that's even less time. 414 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,400 So it's the last time to lose fitness. 415 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,400 So you're not going to lose fitness. 416 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,840 We know that and you know we don't want to have your body 417 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,160 fully go into like a state of tapering. 418 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,440 We just kind of want to reduce what you're doing a little bit 419 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,280 to give you a bit of a physical break and and a good mental 420 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,240 break. So that's kind of where that 25% 421 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,320 number comes from. You know, it's enough to make a 422 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,360 difference, but not so much that it's going to like totally screw 423 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,880 up your normal routine. You're not going to, you're not 424 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,000 going to feel like people sometimes doing the taper where 425 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,120 they feel like they're being super lazy and they're not doing 426 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,880 anything. You're, you know, the down week 427 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,920 is is going to feel kind of like a normal week. 428 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,200 You're just running a little bit less rather than doing full 429 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,920 workouts. Maybe you're just doing things 430 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,240 like strides or he'll repeats short ones, nothing that 431 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,760 contents or long and yeah, that's where the 25% number 432 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,280 comes from. You know, sometimes what I'll do 433 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,600 is I'll reduce. So I usually look at the week on 434 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,240 like a Monday to Sunday schedule. 435 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,360 So sometimes what I'll do is I'll just take that first five 436 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,440 days like the work week, Monday to Friday, and I'll reduce those 437 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,160 runs, make them a lot shorter for my athletes. 438 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,400 And then by the time they get to the weekend, they'll do kind of 439 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,400 like a normal length long run, but the total mileage of the 440 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:35,080 week is roughly 25% less. And yeah, I don't know, just 441 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,080 based on my experience, that seems to work pretty well. 442 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,440 People like it, but you can definitely play with it a bit if 443 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,080 you want. Yeah. 444 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,040 And I think I also feel like having that reduction in mileage 445 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,840 and then having those shorter runs during the week makes you 446 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,560 very confident because at that point, you're used to doing a 447 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,880 lot longer runs. And then having that reduction 448 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,440 makes you feel like, oh, this is nothing. 449 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,000 I just have to go out there for a little bit. 450 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,280 It's not that bad. Yeah, yeah, I remember. 451 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:03,800 The mental side of it is huge. Like I remember when I was 452 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:09,120 training for for Chicago, one of the things that I decided for 453 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:13,240 myself is like the shortest run I'm going to do is 10 miles. 454 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,840 And that felt like a lot. I mean for like for me to run 10 455 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,200 miles, I mean that's a 75 to 80 minute run. 456 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,920 So I was doing at least that every single day. 457 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,440 So that's a lot. And when I would have these 458 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,600 recovery weeks, I was like OK, I'm only going to, I'm only 459 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,840 going to run for like an hour today or or 50 minutes instead 460 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,880 of you know, 80 or something. So it felt it felt good when 461 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,760 that came around. And then was it hard for you to 462 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,040 get back into the regular schedule or were you at that 463 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,000 point just regimented and kind of excited again to get going? 464 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,880 Yeah, yeah, Excited again. Kept going. 465 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,360 I mean, that's sort of the point too. 466 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,840 Like, I think we've done an episode about the importance of 467 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,760 taking time off after your marathon. 468 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,640 And one of the big reasons for that is like, you know, I fully, 469 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,040 I don't think that anyone can go full throttle, be 100% engaged 470 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,600 and excited about training super hard 24/7 365 and taking that 471 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,200 rest after a marathon allows you to kind of get bored and excited 472 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,000 again. The down weeks kind of do that 473 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,480 in the middle of training as well, like you were saying, 474 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,760 rather than having like 12 weeks that are super intense in a row. 475 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,640 And it's like, wow, I'm never going to get a break, you know, 476 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,920 instead you have three weeks that are pretty hard. 477 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 You know you enjoy them and then hopefully by the time those are 478 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,400 done, you're ready for a little bit of a break. 479 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,640 But then you take that break and by the end of it you're then 480 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,880 ready for hard training again. So that's a big reason why I do 481 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,160 this too. OK, perfect. 482 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,480 Yeah, that makes sense. So besides having time or extra 483 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,360 time to catch up on work, what should athletes do or not do? 484 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,440 And specifically when it comes to they're cross training and 485 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,240 also they're eating because obviously if you've been running 486 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,320 high mileage, your hunger is at a different level and then 487 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,720 suddenly you're into that taper week, but you're still just as 488 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,760 hungry. So maybe address the nutrition 489 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,720 1st and then perhaps a little bit about cross training and 490 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,640 strength training if you should switch anything up. 491 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Sure. Yeah. 492 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:22,600 So nutrition, yeah, nutrition's a really interesting subject 493 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,240 with distance running. You're right. 494 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,160 So like, you know, the the recommendations I would give for 495 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,200 an athlete really kind of depend on how much they're running. 496 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,600 And, you know, I'm not certified as nutritionist or anything, but 497 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,880 I have general knowledge. You know, someone who's running 498 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,280 70 miles a week, 10 miles a day, is going to have very different 499 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,400 nutritional needs than someone who's running like 20 miles a 500 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,640 week. There's this ballpark figure 501 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,040 that every mile you run, it's like 100 calories. 502 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,280 So if you're running 10 miles a day, that's an extra 1000 503 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,200 calories a day. You just need to replenish from 504 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,960 running. I find that people who are 505 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,200 running very high mileage or what you know, let's say over 50 506 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:08,200 a week or something, sometimes you can get away with just like 507 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,280 like the most important thing is just eating enough. 508 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,000 It doesn't necessarily matter what you eat as long as you eat 509 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,320 enough. Generally carb rich foods are 510 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,760 good, Healthy foods are good. As many Whole Foods and fruits 511 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,760 and vegetables and healthy proteins that you can get are 512 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,960 good. But sometimes it's just a matter 513 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,760 of making sure you're eating enough people who are running. 514 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,600 I don't know. I would say 30 miles a week or 515 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:37,320 less may not be it. It may not be such a demand on 516 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,160 your body where you need to necessarily be trying to eat 517 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,120 that much more. I mean certainly you should but 518 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,440 I don't know. I would just I would try not to 519 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,640 change what you're doing too much in the recovery week. 520 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,480 I would try to kind of honor the principle of being in a recovery 521 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,120 week. The goal of that week is to 522 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,680 recover. So if you can make healthier 523 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,600 choices during that week, prioritize healthier foods, 524 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160 plenty of good hydration, plenty of sweep, that kind of thing. 525 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,240 I think it's it's important. And then you know, and you are 526 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,240 running less, right? So you, you maybe want to make 527 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,160 sure that you're getting better quality food because you're not 528 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,480 necessarily burning through as much. 529 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,080 And then when you're in your high mileage weeks and your 530 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,480 body's just like craving energy, you know, maybe you can cut 531 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,960 loose with what you're eating a little bit. 532 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,760 I certainly do that because, you know, it's just you just need 533 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,640 enough to fuel yourself when you're running hard. 534 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,320 But the recovery aspect, yeah, really try to be good to 535 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,080 yourself and what you're eating. The same with cross training. 536 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,160 I would say, again, kind of honor the principle of it being 537 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,240 the recovery week. So recovery weeks are a great 538 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,080 time to do more cross training. Like I always tell my athletes, 539 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,520 you know, so you enter your recovery recovery week. 540 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,760 Earlier I was talking about how, you know, we try to take like 541 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:07,200 25% mileage down and lower the intensity, but the whole purpose 542 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,160 of this week is to feel recovered and ready for the 543 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,680 harder training that's going to come in the following week. 544 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:21,560 So if you have any niggles, any injury, any sickness, you know 545 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,280 if it's a crazy week with your personal life or something, this 546 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,160 is a great week to cross train or like just let your training 547 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:36,320 go a little bit and neglect it. Obviously being consistent is 548 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,400 extremely important, but we know, you know, even taking a 549 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,640 full week off of running, you're not really going to lose much 550 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,360 fitness. So the point of the recovery 551 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,400 week is to recover. So do what you need to do in the 552 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,440 recovery week to feel your best in the next week. 553 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,600 That's the most important point. OK, perfect. 554 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,320 And I guess my last question is, and it kind of goes along with 555 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,120 what happens during taper, whether it's mental or actually 556 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,640 happening to our bodies, We feel achy and things hurt that didn't 557 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,360 hurt before while we're running in our third week of that hard 558 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,960 training block and we feel strong maybe during the recovery 559 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,960 week for some reason we don't feel that same way. 560 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,040 Can you maybe explain how and why that happens? 561 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,400 Yeah, I I think during the taper sometimes people feel that way 562 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,800 for for, I mean really two reasons. 563 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,520 First, like it comes at the very end of a training cycle. 564 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,320 You've if you've been pushing yourself and doing more than 565 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,800 you've ever done before like you have this huge amount of work 566 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,080 that that's in your body still. And we call this cumulative 567 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,040 fatigue that you are letting go of during the taper. 568 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:02,520 Like the point to get to be that you're best in a marathon. 569 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,720 You know the the whole point of training is to to to run your 570 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,600 best is to push your body like as close to your breaking point 571 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,200 without breaking yourself as possible. 572 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,560 Obviously you don't want to get hurt, but like, you know what I 573 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:19,840 mean. You want to push yourself so 574 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:26,080 hard right before the taper that like you're ready to be done but 575 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,520 you don't hurt yourself. And then during the taper you 576 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,440 back off and you say, OK, I've done all that I can do and now 577 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,040 I'm just going to rest and let my full fitness emerge and let 578 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,240 go of all this fatigue and stress that I've built up during 579 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,320 training. And that's a pretty big 580 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,120 transition, especially if the taper is pretty short. 581 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,000 You'll sometimes see people do a longer taper, like 3 weeks, 4 582 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,040 weeks and it can be more gradual and I don't know, but I 583 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,840 generally keep the taper kind of short, like 2 weeks Max. 584 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,840 And there's techniques that you can do to not feel like you were 585 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,520 saying sluggish or achy. You know, I think a lot of 586 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,520 people maybe do the taper not as good as they could. 587 00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:10,960 Things that can help is like maintain your frequency of 588 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,000 running. Don't skip days. 589 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,840 Just run less mileage each day. Run the same speeds. 590 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,679 Don't slow down just because it's the taper or like go the 591 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,560 same speed. You're just running less mileage 592 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:29,080 each day And you know, paying attention to, like we're saying, 593 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,480 eating healthy foods, hydration, sleep, all this stuff I think 594 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,520 can help. But I mean, I think it's, I 595 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,440 don't know, it's just kind of normal that after you've been 596 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,719 doing this huge workload and then you cut it by like 50% and 597 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,800 your body's recovering and growing. 598 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,360 I have a kid now growing pains like my daughter's teething, 599 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,960 It's painful for her. Maybe it's painful for us when 600 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560 we're getting stronger because we had all this these hard 601 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,840 workouts and long runs that we did and now we're not, I'm not 602 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,320 sure, but that's kind of I think why we feel it during the taper. 603 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,640 But during the recovery weeks, you, I don't think this is a 604 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,640 normal feeling because you're not you're not changing it too 605 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,960 drastically like it's only 25% reduction. 606 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,480 It's not 50, you know, it's it's it's much less drastic of a 607 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,440 change and it's so short. You know, I think the tapers 608 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,520 sometimes is so long for people, like even when it's ten days a 609 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,480 week and 1/2 or two weeks, that feels like a long time. 610 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,040 But a one week recovery week, especially if you do a pretty 611 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,760 good long run at the end of that, still like it goes by 612 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,680 pretty quick. So honest people, I would just 613 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,480 say one last thing on this. During the taper, I always hear 614 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,400 that people always say, like, oh, I feel sluggish, oh, I don't 615 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,240 feel good, Oh, Makey, whatever. I don't think anyone really ever 616 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,240 tells me that during a recovery week, Like, I usually check in 617 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:50,400 with my athletes, I'm like, how you doing? 618 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,400 Are you enjoying this recovery week? 619 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,000 And they're like, Yep, Yep, I am. 620 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:56,440 So I just think it's a different feeling and experience. 621 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:58,720 Yeah, yeah, I know that makes a lot of sense. 622 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,160 Also we don't have the doubt and and all that that we have going 623 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,480 on what we have during the table where we tend to over analyze 624 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,160 everything. Good point. 625 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:09,960 Yeah, totally. Yeah. 626 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,000 So thank you, Chris, so much for coming on. 627 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,520 And then again, just let our listeners know how they can get 628 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,520 in touch with you if they have any follow up questions or if 629 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,440 they're interested in coaching. Yeah, so you can find everything 630 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,960 I do on my website, nightandruns.com. 631 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,280 And if you're listening to this, the best way to really stay in 632 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,600 touch with what I do and learn about my process for coaching is 633 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,360 to sign up for my e-mail list where I'll send you a free copy 634 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,480 of my book. If you go to nightandruns.com 635 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,560 book, you can sign up there. I have AI have a preview edition 636 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,000 of my book where you can learn more about how we incorporate 637 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,680 these down weeks into your training and so much more when 638 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,960 getting ready for the marathon. And you'll stay in touch with 639 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,920 everything that I'm doing with my training plans coaching. 640 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,240 But yeah, that e-mail list is the best way to connect with me, 641 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,560 and reading my book is a great way to get an introduction to 642 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,840 what I do, so hope you'll check it out. 643 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:05,600 Perfect. Thank you. 644 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,920 Thanks buddy. Thank you, Chris for hopping on 645 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,160 with us. We appreciate you as always. 646 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,080 And big thanks for elaborating on this top. 647 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,200 Hopefully if anyone has any questions they can reach out to 648 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,360 us or to you directly. So hopefully this information 649 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,280 can help people fine tune their training in order to not only 650 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,880 have better mental health, but also hopefully physical health 651 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,720 too. And then next week we'll talk 652 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,720 more about nutrition. Yes, the metabolic process and 653 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,080 fuel transitioning and all that stuff that a lot of us really 654 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,760 don't know what goes on. And I think that's going to be a 655 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,880 super helpful episode because, you know, it's kind of like 656 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,320 mental training. You don't really know what's 657 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,240 going on in there. And I'm pointing at my head, 658 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,440 same with your guts, you don't know what's going on, why, what 659 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,000 happens. But if we inform ourselves with 660 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,160 that sort of stuff, we're armed to take it to the next level 661 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,360 hopefully. And with that? 662 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:12,440 Have a great week off running. Thanks for tuning in. 663 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,560 For more information and marathon running news, please 664 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,400 head to www.marathonrunningpodcast.com 665 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,240 and we'll be back next week.