1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,520 You're listening to episode 271 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,760 In this episode, we're going to talk about 5 key areas to work 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,120 on to improve your running performance. 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,240 This is the Marathon Running Podcast with Letty and Ryan. 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,960 Join us for weekly content on all things running and let us 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,680 take you from the starting line to the finish line and beyond. 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,960 Hey runners, and welcome to episode 271. 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,840 My name is Letty. My name is Ryan. 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,160 And we are back in the United States recording a podcast just 10 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:38,760 like the good old days. Ryan, do you feel all warm and 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,400 fuzzy because of that? Yeah, I think it's mostly the 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,240 heat and humidity though. Anyway, moving on. 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,840 So we are back and we are ready to go with another wonderful 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:51,240 episode. Today we're going to talk about 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,840 5 key areas to work on to improve your running 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,560 performance. Important stuff to know. 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,040 Absolutely, especially with all the fall marathons lurking right 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,560 around the corner. We have Sydney happening soon 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,280 and then we have Berlin, then Chicago and then New York. 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,360 So what kind of tips are these everyday tips? 21 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,960 Yeah. So these are just tips that you 22 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:15,240 can sprinkle into your current training or when you're 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,480 considering the fact that you still have time, maybe you want 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,600 to reconsider your whole training plan all together and 25 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,000 just implement these five different things into your 26 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,760 workouts and into your runs or just into your thoughts as you 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,560 trained for those marathons. Did you talk to somebody? 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,600 Yes, I talked to Coach Todd and he was a real wealth of 29 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,800 knowledge when it comes to that. He is very analytical. 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,760 He does focus on stats a lot, but he's also very hands on with 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,160 his runners, making sure that everything doesn't get 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,960 exaggerated, you know, preventing injuries, etcetera. 33 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,800 So I feel like he puts a lot of thought into training his 34 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,200 athletes. We've had him on one time before 35 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,880 and he was on high demand to come back and luckily he agreed 36 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,560 to come on for this episode last minute. 37 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,720 So he's becoming a regular on this show. 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,960 Yes, he's very good. So you want to get into it? 39 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,039 Sure. So without any further ado, 40 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:11,240 we're now going to play our conversation with Coach Todd. 41 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,040 All right, so I am back on with Coach Todd Charnetski. 42 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,840 Todd, thank you so much for joining me again today. 43 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,680 Hey Letty, awesome to be back talking about what we all love, 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,480 running. Yeah, absolutely. 45 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,880 And I asked you to come back and maybe suggest one of the most 46 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,040 prevalent questions that are out there right now, given that fall 47 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,800 races, we're all training for them. 48 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,480 And you suggested maybe let's talk about 5 key areas to work 49 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,880 on for your running performance, which I thought was a amazingly 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,080 great topic. And so I want to hop into that. 51 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,280 But before we do, maybe we can talk about what a few of the 52 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,840 common misconceptions are that runners have when they're 53 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,040 talking achieving their best performances. 54 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,760 Perhaps there is some that jump out at you. 55 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,960 Yeah. You know, I think out of the 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,840 running community, you know, the biggest thing that always comes 57 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,800 up is, you know, I wanted to get better, I wanted to get faster. 58 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,640 So I need to run faster more often. 59 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,440 So, and this, this mindset, I think is very common for the 60 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,840 newer runner for sure. You know, most runners might 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,200 think back to when they ran when they were younger or it took off 62 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,760 some time and OK, I got to get back in the game and I'm just 63 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,720 going to start running. And oftentimes it's, it's 64 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,360 running hard, running too fast, too soon. 65 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:42,520 You know, we're an impatient society where we all want fast 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,560 benefits, instant gratification. So I think, you know, there's 67 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,480 that tendency to want to rush the process. 68 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,120 And I think in general, the mindset for many runners is, 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,640 hey, I've, I'm not as fast as I want to be in a 5K10 KA 70 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,080 marathon. So I just need to start running 71 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:04,240 faster, you know, literally faster in all my runs and and 72 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,400 that that'll tie into the topic today. 73 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,800 But that's just not the proper way to go about it. 74 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,560 You know, running speed, you know, running faster is simply 75 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,240 running faster, running with more speed. 76 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,240 But the limitations in these endurance events are not running 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,960 speed. It's endurance, it's stamina. 78 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,680 So I think one of the biggest misconceptions that I try to 79 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,040 educate, you know, to my the runners that I coach, you know, 80 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,880 that I love to run community where I'm a coach is how to kind 81 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:41,040 of put it all together to where you're growing as a runner over 82 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,720 the long term. And to just simply go run faster 83 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,320 is going to give you such limited gains. 84 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,080 Sure you might. Your next 5K in three weeks, 4 85 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,840 weeks, six weeks, you might do better. 86 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:55,120 But where's that going to put you 6 months from now, 12 months 87 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,800 from now, so. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 88 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,520 And I know we hear that a lot, that people just run too fast 89 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,040 and it's really hard for some people to slow down, for others 90 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,760 it's not, but especially with distances that are longer. 91 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,360 We're going to talk about your first pillar, endurance. 92 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,080 Now, before we hop into endurance, and I'll have you 93 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,520 define what endurance also means, but before we hop into 94 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,520 that, please let me know for which distances endurance 95 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,440 training is actually important. Is it important for five KS and 96 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,560 10 KS as well? Yeah, absolutely. 97 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:37,360 You know, a one mile race is multiple minutes, so it's still 98 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,480 an aerobic event. You know, I think, you know, 99 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,200 the, you know, the biggest part of your audience and obviously 100 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,920 we'll touch more so on marathons, but a 5K race is 90% 101 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,200 aerobic. So, you know, I think there's 102 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,680 the misconception out there. I'm running a 5 Ki got to do 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,360 tons and tons and tons and tons of speed work and, and obviously 104 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,520 speed work and faster running is part of the recipe. 105 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,800 But you know, 5K is an aerobic event where we need to build 106 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:09,320 endurance, build that engine to set you up for, for success. 107 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,560 So yeah, any type of aerobic event and you know, even a, an 108 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,600 elite runner running a 4 minute mile, you know, there are a big 109 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,640 chunk of aerobic components there. 110 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,880 You know, the one milers are running a lot of distance work 111 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,440 too. So endurance is huge, you know, 112 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,480 and generally from that 5K to marathon, ultra marathon 113 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,600 distance. So it's the most important, 114 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,360 Well, one of the five essential pillars. 115 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,240 And so let's talk about endurance. 116 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,280 What does endurance really mean? What's your definition when you 117 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,240 think about the word endurance? Yeah, You know, it's, you know, 118 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,600 we're going to talk about these these five pillars and and they 119 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,920 all kind of interrelate very well. 120 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,240 I mean, they all, they're all good best friends. 121 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,560 You know, you know, if you're if you're missing one of these five 122 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,280 pillars, you know, it sets you up for an opportunity to grow. 123 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,960 But I think, you know, the foundation of of us runners and 124 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:11,120 the ability to enjoy our running and to ultimately perform better 125 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,400 and better and progress long term is to build endurance. 126 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,600 And, you know, most people can just probably figure out what 127 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:25,480 that means, but it simply means the ability to run far 128 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,720 comfortably. It's it's like, it's pretty 129 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,320 simple, right? So I think so many runners kind 130 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,560 of miss that that point and they want to jump into the fast 131 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,640 stuff. But, you know, I'll ask a 132 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,520 runner, Hey, can you run? You know, everybody's definition 133 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,120 of a long run is different, but let's say 6 miles, let's say 8 134 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,040 miles, let's say 10 miles, let's say 14 miles, you know, and I 135 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,760 like to have, you know, many runners that I coach be able to 136 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,640 go out and run 8 to 10 miles comfortably, You know, can you 137 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,120 do that before starting marathon training? 138 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,560 So I know, I know I'm just getting back at it. 139 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,040 And, you know, it kind of hurts to get through 5-6 miles. 140 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,040 Well, that would be a true sign of a lack of endurance. 141 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,800 So, so I think, you know, when you go out and say, I'm just 142 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,000 going to go out and run relaxed and free and listen to the birds 143 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,120 and, and you can do that for six miles, 8 miles, 10 miles. 144 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:23,040 That's a good mindset of, OK, this means I have some decent 145 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,160 endurance. I can go through this without it 146 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,040 being a struggle every minute or the mindset that I want to be 147 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,760 done. So, so that's the foundation of 148 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,480 endurance. And then, you know, that's what 149 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,080 we focus on and that's what I focus on really and all my 150 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,919 runners and then kind of tie in the other pillars that we'll get 151 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:42,880 to. Perfect. 152 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,880 So now that we know what endurance is, what are your most 153 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,760 effective mythologies to get a runner to be better at 154 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,320 endurance? In other words, what specific 155 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,960 runs do you prescribe? On your plans, yeah, it's, you 156 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,880 know, you know, we talk about always wanting to run fast and a 157 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,920 typical athlete that I see is running too fast in their 158 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,400 training. So the biggest thing is to teach 159 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:16,040 a runner not what the heart rate shows, not, you know, what the 160 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,200 analytics show or the zones. It's like truly go out and run 161 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,240 easy. You know what feels easy? 162 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,440 I sometimes I don't the analytics, you know, we'll get 163 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,880 into that too. You know, I'm a science guy and 164 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,880 I like analytics, but you know, the industry has gone crazy 165 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,400 with, you know, our brains are going nuts. 166 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,480 So we're trying to look at her watch and the analytics and I 167 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:42,200 try to bring things into a more common sense world and I think 168 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,600 that resonates. So from a during standpoint, it 169 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,000 really starts with let's learn how to run easy. 170 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,560 And I mean truly easy. It's like what pace? 171 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,000 No, it's a field thing you have to learn. 172 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,240 You know, if you go run 5 miles, oh, it's hard. 173 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,480 Well, that means it wasn't easy, right? 174 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,840 So, and if that means run, jog 5 minutes, walk a minute so that 175 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,800 you can complete your 4 miles, you're 6 miles, you're 10 miles 176 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,280 where at the end of it you're like, yeah, I'm tired, I'm 177 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:10,800 comfortable. But that was fun. 178 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,320 That that felt good. And I think depending on the 179 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,440 level of the athlete, it might start with, you know, let's do 180 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,360 some 3-4 milers and build off of that. 181 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,000 So run easier then ultimately to continue to build that 182 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,880 endurance, you know, we would need to build off that as far as 183 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,000 running longer and obviously the importance of long runs as far 184 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,640 as building, you know, that aerobic engine and what we're 185 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:39,800 trying to build this base of fitness, this this big cake that 186 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,640 we can work off of so that these other pillars will be more 187 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,160 effective down the road. So a lot of it just comes from 188 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,480 more time on your feet. Let's build some miles. 189 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,720 Let's build more days of running per week. 190 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,280 Let's try to run longer. We're trying to build up, you 191 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,840 know, the foundation, the mitochondria, the capillary 192 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,360 density, slow twitch fiber utilization, the ability to burn 193 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,600 fat more efficiently because we just go around hard. 194 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,600 Your body is going to go to that quick form of energy, which is 195 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,320 carbs and it works very efficiently. 196 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:17,200 But as you start getting into longer runs and longer endurance 197 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,960 races, you know, there's some limitations with and you only 198 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,040 have so many carbs to work with, so you have to get better at 199 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,400 building fat. So, so there's that process of 200 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,040 just, you know, taking the time, you know, building that 201 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,480 endurance, building that those comfortable runs. 202 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,640 And then when you build that foundation, then we can start 203 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,480 tying in some of these other areas that will, you know, make 204 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,440 you an even more effective runner. 205 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,520 Perfect. Thank you for explaining that. 206 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,480 And I have a follow up question with that. 207 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,040 As we as runners improve our endurance and as you mentioned 208 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,440 everyone's really focused on their watches, will we see that 209 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,880 easy run pace improve? And I'm asking that because 210 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:04,000 literally I went to Kenya earlier in the year and the fast 211 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,920 runners that run 2 to 5 marathons, they are running 212 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,440 their easy runs at 8-9 minute pace, which you know is 213 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,760 completely a lot slower. Obviously the focus is not to 214 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,280 improve your easy run pace, but does that improve? 215 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,200 Yeah. I mean, when you start running 216 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,840 more, you start obviously developing efficiency, the skill 217 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,440 of running becomes easier. You know, think of a baby's 218 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,200 learning to walk. It's, it's they're wobbling 219 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,560 around, but in time they come a little bit more efficient. 220 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,760 So the more you practice it, the more efficient you get. 221 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,080 And these physiological changes occur, you know, and oftentimes, 222 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,760 you know, again, we're looking at or watch or what's my Max 223 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,920 video to Garmin says it's going up, it's going down, You know, 224 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,720 Garmin says to improve my Max video to I got to go run these 225 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:57,480 hard 1K3K paste intervals or aerobic training endurance work. 226 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,280 Easy running builds your Max VO2, it trickles up your lactate 227 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,480 threshold. All these things improve with 228 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,280 easy running. And with that, the your pace to 229 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,480 start to improve without even trying again, I think we're 230 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:17,440 trying to reach for the fast stuff so that we can feel 231 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,640 better. And that's a component of, of 232 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,360 getting better because running faster, it does make certain 233 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,040 paces, you know, feel easier as we'll get into the stamina and 234 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,200 speed stuff in a bit. But you got to build that 235 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,000 foundation. And I think most runners can 236 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,360 relate that, you know, three months after starting to run, 237 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,560 perhaps even if they're not doing it the right way, they oh 238 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,680 geez, that 10 minute pace three months ago, now I'm running that 239 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,720 same effort at 9 minute pace. So, you know, all these areas 240 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,160 kind of interval overlap a little bit. 241 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,960 You just can't work on endurance or you just can't work on speed. 242 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,160 And some of these things, you know, overlap where you're 243 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,360 getting a little bit of everything. 244 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,200 I mean by building your endurance, you essentially can 245 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,440 also run faster in a 5K10K, which most would consider speed 246 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,520 events. So yeah, all those physiological 247 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,480 changes start improving, you know, with just easy running. 248 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,600 Perfect. And so with that, I want to move 249 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,760 on to the next key area to improve. 250 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,640 And again, I'm going to ask you to define that one for me 251 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,440 because the next one is going to be stamina. 252 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,760 And stamina sounds very much like endurance to me. 253 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,920 But hopefully you can help me out making that. 254 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,400 Yeah, I think, I think most runners would be. 255 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,720 Well, jeez, that kind of sounds like the same thing. 256 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,400 I mean, stamina is you're going to go run far and it takes 257 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,840 stamina to do that, right? Yeah, they're definitely 258 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,880 interrelated. I mean, and they work off of 259 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,360 each other. I kind of look at it as a 260 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,160 stepping stone because you can work on endurance big time, then 261 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,600 also do specific stamina work. I think sometimes we just want 262 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,360 to do the stamina work and kind of avoid those easy, comfy type 263 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,920 type runs. But stamina, again, I like to 264 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,520 keep things pretty simple. The ability to run longer, 265 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,040 faster, it it's as simple as that. 266 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,040 It involves, you know, doing some some, you know, specific 267 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,600 workouts and endurance work just in general. 268 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,120 We'll build your stamina, but then you can work specific types 269 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,480 of workouts. And that's probably one of the 270 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,320 questions that you're going to ask next and I'll kind of tie 271 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,320 into it. But you know, the limitations 272 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,600 with stamina or the ability to run faster, longer is 273 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,480 essentially is dealing with the crummy feeling. 274 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,200 You know, it's like this doesn't feel very good. 275 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,400 I need to slow down. And that's essentially, you 276 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,040 know, lactate management, you know, as we start working harder 277 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,160 than our body might like and and you know, it's a challenge to 278 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,560 keep up with the oxygen demands. And through Krebs cycle, the, 279 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,200 you know, lactate is formed, you know, in the process of building 280 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,880 AT PS and energy. And sometimes if you're running 281 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,040 a little bit too hard, the lactate and its byproducts and 282 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,480 hydrogen ions and all these things just make you feel kind 283 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,600 of crummy. So the challenge there is how do 284 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,880 you train that system? And that's where, you know, the 285 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,040 various type of workouts come. And I'm sure that's the next 286 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,920 question is, you know, what, what runners would term tempo 287 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,720 runs or threshold runs, or I love a pace called critical 288 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,600 velocity. There's progression runs, 289 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,720 There's there's, you know, cruise intervals. 290 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:46,280 There's so many different ways of taxing that system so that 291 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,120 you get you're just better able to deal with the, the formation 292 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,120 of lactate and you're able to flush it through, you know, you 293 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,280 reuse it again, lactate, you know, it's a bad rap. 294 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,040 Lactic acid gets a horrible rap. It's a good thing. 295 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,080 It's a good thing. It's forming. 296 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,720 We can use it as an energy source. 297 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,200 Lactate does not cause muscle soreness, does not cause the the 298 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,640 pain during your runs. It's not lactic acid. 299 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,119 It's the byproducts of the whole metabolic system, you know, the 300 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,240 irons and acidosis and that type of thing. 301 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,440 That's what's causing the crummy feeling. 302 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:26,599 And so we need to mix in the right recipe along with the 303 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:31,240 endurance work to work on those systems so that you essentially 304 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,120 can move the needle and run faster, longer. 305 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,360 OK, so the clear different that difference that came to me is 306 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,440 that endurance is basically just easy running and you do it for a 307 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,800 long time. But then stamina is when you're 308 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,760 pushing the system a little bit more by either running faster 309 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,280 than your easy run or running that easy run longer, and then 310 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:57,920 you're trying to build a stamina. 311 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,320 Yep, yeah, that's that's, you know, pretty accurate. 312 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,320 And I think the, you know, the issue with stamina training and 313 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,560 every training plan has a go run a certain tempo run or go do 314 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,520 these intervals or do a progression run or cruise 315 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:15,920 intervals. I mean, again, there's so many 316 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,080 ways to tax that system. And again, we're so programmed 317 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,520 that faster is better. So I see many athletes and I 318 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,520 have to slow my athletes down too. 319 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,480 Is we're trying to, we have a specific goal for this workout. 320 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,760 It's to help you manage and deal with lactate formation, lactic 321 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,400 acid, however you want to call it. 322 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,600 And many runners just want to go faster, so that defeats the 323 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,680 purpose of the workout. So we, you know, that's just a 324 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,160 good tip for any runner is know what you're trying to accomplish 325 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,800 in this run and stick to it. If you're trying to do a temple 326 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,680 run or lactate threshold or critical velocity, and I'm going 327 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,960 to press my coach, he's asking for A7157 pace. 328 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,600 But if I run these at 6:45, he's going to be really happy. 329 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,400 I'm like, no, you've now taken it from a lactate management or 330 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,240 lactate threshold workout into a Max VO2 where you're building 331 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,880 more doses and, you know, speed component, which those have 332 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,040 their place in a plan to, but that wasn't the goal of this 333 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,360 run. So it's just a good lesson, you 334 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:26,640 know, for everybody to kind of understand what the goal of the 335 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,640 workout is and stick to it. That's interesting. 336 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,440 Yeah. I mean that that can happen so 337 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,800 easily. You're trying to impress your 338 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,000 coach. I know I've done it. 339 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,000 So. And then I scold my my athletes, 340 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,920 if they, you know, politely scold them. 341 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,360 I said, good job, you did it. But. 342 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,560 Yes, coach is right, workouts for a reason and we don't 343 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,760 understand, but that's why we hire the expert, OK? 344 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,040 So stick with the plan and then that's one of the components you 345 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,080 can reach by following that training plan. 346 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,320 And then let me ask you about the next pillar that we have 347 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,000 down here, which is speed. Obviously we know what speed 348 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,680 means, but how do you define speed in the context of distance 349 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,320 running, and why is it a vital component for all runners 350 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,280 regardless of their primary race distance? 351 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,400 Yeah, exactly. And like I mentioned previous, 352 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,280 you know, people say I have quality worker, they have a 353 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,360 speed workout and they'll might run a, you know, temple run. 354 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,840 I don't necessarily consider like a temple run speed work. 355 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,560 I classify it more into the stamina endurance. 356 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,560 You know, there's a correlation there. 357 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,160 But to me, true speed work is trying to get your legs to move 358 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,360 faster. That's what speed is. 359 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,440 Speed isn't, oh, I did a little progression run and I ended up 360 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,280 at marathon pace. That's not, you know, you might 361 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,560 call it a quality session, but that's not really a speed 362 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,000 workout. Speed is, you know, you can 363 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,920 really define and say, hey, you're trying to move your legs 364 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,600 faster. Like as simple as AI run a 40 365 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,760 yard dash in five seconds, I want to move it down to 4.8 366 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,520 seconds. Does that carry over into the 367 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,960 world of endurance training? You know, probably not, but you 368 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,800 know, when we talked about, you know, like I said, from a 369 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,680 coaching standpoint and, and incorporating speed work or 370 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,360 speed drills, what I'm focusing on and, and in the literature 371 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,440 and in your watch, you know, it's improved Max VO2. 372 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,440 And again, I don't get into because people don't even know 373 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,720 what that means. It's like it must be a good 374 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:30,720 number. It's going up. 375 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,320 I'm stronger, I'm faster, I'm going to perform better. 376 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,560 And it it doesn't, it doesn't, I mean, obviously it correlates 377 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,440 performance, but at some point Max Video 2 after five years of 378 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,800 regular training, you're not seeing it bunch much. 379 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,760 I think in the last 30 years mine hasn't changed within four 380 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,600 points. It doesn't mean maybe I haven't 381 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,800 run faster at some point or run slower at some point. 382 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,560 But you know, how I incorporate speed work is to really help the 383 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,400 runner become more efficient. You know, running is a skill and 384 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,280 as much as I'm a proponent of a lot of easy work, you have to 385 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,880 mix in a variety of paces and and speed work is moving the 386 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,560 lights faster, working on your form, your stride mechanics 387 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,880 change when you turn over the legs and we're trying to and 388 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,800 that component, you know, also helps those, those faster paces. 389 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,440 Let's say you want to run a marathon faster. 390 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,400 You know, when you develop some speed skill, it makes those 391 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,760 paces feel easier as well. So I look at it more like that 392 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,840 versus I'm going to do these workouts to improve my Max video 393 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,680 too. I'm looking at the, the on the 394 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,600 road benefits, doing speed work. And I'm a coach, you know, 395 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,080 obviously I'm coaching a lot of average runners and I think most 396 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,840 average runners are looking at these plans and looking at elite 397 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,720 plans. And it's like I got to do 12 by 398 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,440 400 at this pace. And, and I opinion the average 399 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,520 runner is just way overblowing the speed workout there. 400 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,960 It's that they're overcooking themselves on a regular basis. 401 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,480 You don't need a lot of speed work to get the benefits that 402 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,480 you're looking for. You know, again, the mindset is 403 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,760 more is better. And I'm rarely do I prescribe 404 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,640 more than 4 by 200 meters in a speed session. 405 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,080 And most people like what that that's, that's nothing. 406 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,920 But I stack it with stamina work in the same workout. 407 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,760 So you get a kind of a synergistic effect and it, I 408 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,080 mean, it resonates, it's effective. 409 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,480 I'm just not one to go pound out 12 by 4 hundreds. 410 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,600 I just don't think it has a lot of application to the 411 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,880 marathoner. You know, the more elite 412 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,000 marathoner, yes, but the average marathoners are probably doing 413 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,640 way, way, way too much speed work. 414 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,440 And but that's my philosophy. You can talk to the next coach 415 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,520 next week and they'll be all in on that. 416 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,200 And their athletes are doing great, perfect, you know, But I 417 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,680 try to apply, you know, what I coach and what I prescribe, how 418 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,400 that can benefit in the event that they're training for. 419 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,280 So I think that answered your question. 420 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,120 It does. It doesn't. 421 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,280 It's a very, very interesting take. 422 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,800 I have a little bit of experience with something like 423 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,120 that as we age. I felt like, you know, doing 2 424 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:31,080 speed sessions and then a long run seemed to be a little bit 425 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,000 much for someone that's working young kids and everything. 426 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,480 So you know, it felt like that was too much in one for one 427 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,040 marathon. I was kind of self coached. 428 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,560 I was just kind of following my own thing and I really focused 429 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,440 just on endurance, lot of easy runs. 430 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,440 And then I did do speed work, but it was very little. 431 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,600 And it was very interesting that my mileage was higher, but the 432 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,360 speed work was way less and the time of the marathon was still 433 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,520 the exact same. Yep, for sure. 434 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,480 And I think, you know, like you said, we talked about, you know, 435 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,840 aging athletes and that's, you know, I think, you know, the 436 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,200 ability to have a coach, you know, you tend, you tend to work 437 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,560 with athletes that are in their 30s, forties, 50s and they're 438 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,480 just trying to, you know, train correctly and get better. 439 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,000 And we're essentially all aging athletes. 440 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:24,160 And so how do you mix in, you know, the proper recipe or the 441 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,040 proper formulation to, you know, every athlete's different. 442 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:33,000 You know, 1 athlete at 40 might be crazy fit and BQ and the next 443 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,800 one might be 30 lbs overweight. They're trying to get in the 444 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,800 flow. How do we train correctly? 445 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,200 I'm getting injured. So, you know, as a coach, you 446 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,320 adapt to the athlete, but I think, you know, from a workout 447 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,120 standpoint and how do we incorporate speed safely? 448 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,960 I think that that's a really good question. 449 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:54,760 I'll ask for you, but you know, there's some simple drills, you 450 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,840 know, go to a hill, do some hill repeats, you know, 30 seconds 451 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,520 where you're running hard, not a Sprint. 452 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,000 You know, maybe you're not ready for a Sprint. 453 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,880 Maybe in a year from now you can Sprint up them for 2030 seconds. 454 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,240 But you know, mechanically you're changing the mechanics, 455 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,480 you're turning the legs over more, you're getting a 456 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,400 essentially like a strength component where you're kind of 457 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,360 grinding through a hill drill. You do four of those. 458 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,120 You know, that's, you know, think of it like going to do 4 459 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,760 sets of squats. You've just done that on a hill 460 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,520 where you're getting a strength, power, speed component in a 461 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,520 pretty safe manner. Another way to do it, which I'm 462 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,960 huge on is Striders strides. You know, I, most of my athletes 463 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,640 are doing these at least couple days a week. 464 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,440 It could be, yeah, but easy run just to mix in four to six 465 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,680 riders for 20 seconds. You know where you're running at 466 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,040 a fast pace, but not all out sprinting, flailing, you're 467 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,880 turning the legs over. And then I tell them, focus on 468 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,360 your form. I use an analogy. 469 00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,000 Envision you're going into a stadium of 80,000 people 470 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,640 watching you run, and you want to look really good. 471 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,040 So practice that form because you want to keep your form when 472 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,560 you're doing these endurance races that rather be the end of 473 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,200 a 5K end of a marathon. You don't want to lose those 474 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,560 efficiency. So these speed drills and this 475 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,680 is skill work. So we're trying to work on the 476 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,880 skill of running, you know, the ability to open up your stride 477 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,920 and strengthen your stride and be efficient. 478 00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:26,480 So these striders and hill drills, I often incorporate fast 479 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,280 finish runs to it could be an easy run last 200 meters, again, 480 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,960 you're running in that stadium, pick up the pace. 481 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,680 You know, your legs are a little tired, but let's go through 482 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,200 these drills of focusing on running with great form and 483 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,960 turnover. Again, 200 meters doesn't tear 484 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,880 you up. So you incorporate, you know, 485 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,680 you can do this less than 5% of your mileage doing these drills 486 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,040 with strides and hills and fast finishes. 487 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,360 And, and it, it matters so much without having to dedicate, you 488 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,880 know, miles of 400 meter burners where you're dying. 489 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,200 Again, there's a place for that in certain athletes, but most of 490 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,440 us don't need to go there. I love it. 491 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,600 This is this is really great. I'm glad you asked that question 492 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:12,920 for. Me for you, right? 493 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,080 Perfect. So moving on to your fourth key 494 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,680 component, which is durability and resilience, which is often 495 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,680 overlooked and then an injury occurs and then is not 496 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,080 overlooked anymore. So how do you define durability 497 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,520 and resilience for a runner and why is it as important as all 498 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,720 the other components that you are mentioned earlier? 499 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,200 Yeah, durability and resilience is, I mean, it's huge. 500 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,760 And I'll, I'm going to broaden it to a lot of subcategories. 501 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,200 And I think, you know, as a society, we're going out there 502 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,760 and let's find the best plan. And if I do the work, you know, 503 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,280 I'll show up and everything will be great. 504 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,280 But sometimes it's like, I got to do this, some of those 505 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,560 endurance long runs. I got these tempos and I got 506 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,440 these speed work and I'll just show up. 507 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,640 But are they actually monitoring how they're feeling? 508 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,800 Are they taken into play? Boy, I'm really tired after that 509 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,360 threshold work, but the plan says I need to run 7 tomorrow. 510 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,760 I guess I'll work my way through and grind through it. 511 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,320 So I think resiliency and durability is really the ability 512 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,240 to stay on the road. Your biggest gains, you know, 513 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,840 month after month, year after year is the ability to stay 514 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,520 consistent. And that's why I think we all 515 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,040 have to just evaluate who we are and what we're feeling on a 516 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,880 daily basis. Are we, you know, putting in the 517 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,920 effort to sleep well? Are we eating well? 518 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,080 Are we after a hard long run? Are we fueling within an hour? 519 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,080 Are we hydrating properly? Not only before, during and 520 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,440 after your run, but knowing hot as well. 521 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,800 Are we going into these other runs in your best possible state 522 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,040 of recovery? So I think you know those 523 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,480 factors if you take into account the sleep, the nutrition, the 524 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,440 hydration, Are you doing some strength work? 525 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,040 Common sense says a stronger muscle means you have stronger 526 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,120 tendons, stronger joints, you're more resilient. 527 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,840 You know, that's part of longevity and getting better. 528 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,520 And oftentimes it's like we want to be good and be better in the 529 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,840 event 8 weeks ahead, 16 weeks ahead. 530 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,560 And it's like I don't care about any of this other stuff. 531 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,360 I'm just going to follow the plan and do my best. 532 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,080 But I look always from a long term growth standpoint because 533 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,400 of course we want to do good in the event in the weeks or months 534 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,880 ahead, but we also want to keep improving and growing. 535 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,560 And that's where these other factors, you know, from a 536 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,960 durability, you know, you have to take the time and that's the 537 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,440 challenge of being a coach. What I love is so many runners 538 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,640 are just not educated on the fueling component, the strength 539 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,400 training component, the hydration, the how you use 540 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,920 electrolytes, how you time, all this stuff where all of that 541 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,640 contributes to being a more durable, resilient athlete that 542 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,320 will ultimately allow you to get better and better as you 543 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,680 continue your run journey. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a 544 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,760 really interesting topic because especially for runners that are 545 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,520 not coached, it's really difficult sometimes to 546 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,280 distinguish between the normal fatigue from training because 547 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,200 you're ramping up mileage. If you have runners that are 548 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,840 doing 5060 miles, you have some training fatigue. 549 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,680 But then also there might be a potential warning sign that your 550 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,240 body's trying to give you for an impending injury. 551 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,760 So how do you suggest that people that are not coached, 552 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,440 that can't just call you up and figure out, OK, you're just 553 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,080 tired, you're just mentally exhausted? 554 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,680 How do you suggest people kind of take those warning signs or 555 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,720 build resilience through it? Yeah, I think. 556 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,920 You know, that's a huge challenge, you know, because 557 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,440 there's, you know, many athletes realize that, hey, I'm on a 558 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,360 plan. Of course I'm going to be tired. 559 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,680 There's going to be some discomfort, fatigue. 560 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,960 And, you know, it's a fine line of, yeah, you want to work 561 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,880 through some of this because that's part of, you know, 562 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,240 building some toughness and and resiliency through your training 563 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,480 plan. I think there's a couple things 564 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,280 to look at. And I guess we can talk about 565 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,520 overtraining or under recovery syndrome, which kind of ties 566 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,440 into this. If you're finding that, you 567 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,000 know, could be just after a day, but nothing cases like, boy, 568 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,960 after this last week or two, I'm just boy, I feel drained. 569 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,720 You know, it's just hard to get up. 570 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,040 I'm tired. I just, I just want to crash and 571 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,960 take a nap during the day. There's some physiological signs 572 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,800 where you're just, you know, physically drained, mentally 573 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,240 drained central nervous system is shutting down and it's over 574 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,080 overcooked, so to speak. And so that that's one sign that 575 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,120 you know what, maybe you just need a couple days of easy 576 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,720 running or don't run. Let your body reset. 577 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,480 That's your central nervous system reset. 578 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,520 Let your muscles heal, let things catch up. 579 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,520 So I would say on a global idea, if just overall fatigue 580 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,400 certainly is a warning sign that goes day-to-day, week to week. 581 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,560 You need to back off some and if you back off some, you're not 582 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,480 going to lose your fitness. So don't panic. 583 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,840 You know, that's the fear of I don't run for three days. 584 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,400 I'm going to, I'm going to lose it all. 585 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,400 It's like, no, it doesn't happen. 586 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,320 And then I think then the other key signal is pain. 587 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,280 I went out for a run my last three runs. 588 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:41,440 My my Achilles hurts. Use pain as your signal. 589 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,520 Your body is telling you that something is wrong and it's 590 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,080 warning you and take the warning versus pushing through it to 591 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,760 where that warning now becomes too far, where you've injured it 592 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,480 or now you're laid up. So use pain as a signal but also 593 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,640 pain Doesn't have to be a panic or my foot hurt on my run today. 594 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,280 I got to go to the doctor. You probably don't need to go to 595 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,440 the doctor. You probably need a day or two 596 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,920 of not running or the next day you warm it up really well. 597 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,600 Go for an easy jog. If it's if it's there and 598 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,239 hurting, stop, give it a couple days. 599 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:25,080 So I think we have to understand what our body tells us 600 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,679 sometimes, whether it be from a fatigue standpoint or from a 601 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,040 pain standpoint, and then react and just do the smart thing. 602 00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,920 Come and says sense says back off. 603 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,719 So, so those are the the two things that I normally see. 604 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000 Is this this extreme fatigue response or hey, something 605 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,520 hurts. Yeah, so back. 606 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,480 Off, Don't try to make up for all the workouts that you 607 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,199 haven't done because you can't punch workouts. 608 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,760 And then so basically, pain is a great indicator. 609 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,440 As we know, fatigue is all over fatigue, but not any hot spots. 610 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,560 But I'm going to throw you this one too. 611 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,560 Phantom pains, right? Phantom pains are pains that are 612 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,240 not real. They're kind of in your head and 613 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:08,360 they occur during taper, maybe because you're nervous about 614 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,520 something. But then I also find a lot of 615 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,600 times just personally, when I'm running a marathon and my brain 616 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,000 is telling me to back off and just take it easy, that 617 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,760 something hurts. All of a sudden I have knee pain 618 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,520 and I've never had knee pain in my life. 619 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,720 And then after the race, I'm like this knee pain has 620 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,600 vanished. So maybe talk about that a 621 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,080 little bit. Yeah. 622 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,840 I mean I. Think, I guess we can first 623 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,600 touch on maybe in a in a marathon where it's like, and 624 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,000 I've had that happen actually this last week, you know, 625 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,920 someone had these weird side aches and gut things like what 626 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,280 the heck? I've never had that in a, in a 627 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,360 training right before and and perhaps with you 2 with your 628 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,560 knee. I mean, there's a there's, I 629 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,600 tell my runners, expect the unexpected going into a marathon 630 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,400 because you're going through an enduring event and perhaps 631 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,400 you're going to be on terrain that you haven't run before or 632 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,600 of course you haven't run before and, and you're going to take 633 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,800 your body to a different level of stress and fatigue. 634 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,080 So you know, obviously for you, let's say you're running a 635 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,600 marathon, you're, you know, you're, the adrenaline is 636 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,000 flowing, you're tapered, you're, you're at a, you're prepped for 637 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,880 this event at a high level. I mean, you're more prepared 638 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,240 than any training run because you've gone through the taper, 639 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,080 you've gone through the, you know, your glycogen loaded, 640 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,480 you're carb loaded, you're, you feel good. 641 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,960 So then you take your body to a different level of stress. 642 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,880 So that's where these things can pop up. 643 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,200 It's like, why is my knee hurting as well? 644 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,640 Because you're taxing your quads more than perhaps you did in 645 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,400 training. So it might resonate or, you 646 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,200 know, show up, hey, my knee's starting to hurt. 647 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,440 Or, you know, you're breathing harder for longer, so why am I 648 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,920 getting this side ache? Or it's just because you're 649 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,040 breathing harder, longer and your body wasn't used to that. 650 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,360 So, you know, you can look at, you know, you can really dial it 651 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,400 down. It's like, well, are my quads 652 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,880 being taxed because I started off the race too fast? 653 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,600 Is that why I'm overloading the muscles and my depleting my 654 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,680 glycogen too soon? I mean, you can get into the 655 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,000 science of of why and break it down per race. 656 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,880 But if you're, if you're doing everything correctly and that 657 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,240 happens, it's kind of like it's just a fatigue response and 658 00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:25,480 overstressed response that most of us can work through unless it 659 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,240 gets, you know, unless there's a physical injury where, you know, 660 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,480 it gets worse and worse and worse where you simply have to 661 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,360 walk. And in some cases you may take 662 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,080 some fuel and it's be like, oh, I kind of feel better now. 663 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,280 So, so that's kind of why that happened. 664 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,360 And then to answer the other part of your question, you know, 665 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,880 the taper period, what I call the replenishment period, 666 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,160 because taper has kind of a negative. 667 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,120 People don't like that word. So I think think of it as 668 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,720 replenishment. You're going into the event 669 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,040 replenished and feeling good and healed. 670 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,880 And so, yeah, I've had that happen too, where I've taken a 671 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,560 week off, let's say to rest, you know, a calf. 672 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,560 And then I'm, I'm not running. And then my other Achilles that 673 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,520 I had a problem with two years ago, it's like, why is that 674 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,280 starting to act up? I think what happens, you know, 675 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,800 the body is used to being loaded a certain way, like, hey, these 676 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,240 tendons are used to being loaded and, and stimulated and creating 677 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:27,440 circulation. And then as you back off, let's 678 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,000 go, hey, what what's going on here? 679 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,000 You're not loading me like you did before. 680 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,800 So I'm going to, you know, talk to you a little bit. 681 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,960 So I think that's just a natural phenomena, you know, and then 682 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,080 nothing negative about it. More than likely as you get back 683 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,480 to training, all those phantom pains, so to speak, kind of kind 684 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,680 of go away. But, you know, look at an 685 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,240 athlete who's been out there for years and years and years and 686 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,320 you know, we're all kind of diseased in some way. 687 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,480 And I say that not in a negative way, but our tendons have taken 688 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,640 a beating for years and years and years. 689 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,080 And they get, you know, you get micro tears, you build scar 690 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,840 tissue. You could probably do an MRI, 691 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,000 any MRI. I've had an MRI and they tell 692 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,480 me, well, you know, when, when did you have this injury? 693 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,560 I don't remember this injury actually. 694 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,440 You know, it's like they see stuff that you know, from the 695 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,640 past and well, it doesn't hurt. Well, it looks like you have 696 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,280 scar tissue there. It's like that doesn't hurt. 697 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,080 So I think we're all kind of diseased in that way. 698 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,240 It doesn't mean that we still can't perform great, but you 699 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:31,160 know, we're putting our bodies through a lot of stress and, 700 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,000 and, you know, our tendons and ligaments and all those things 701 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,840 become resilient and strong. And that, you know, opens up the 702 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,520 door to to the strength training to where, you know, because 703 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,200 we're we're taxing all these things. 704 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,400 We need to make sure all the musculature and strength is 705 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,640 solid all around it so that we can continue to run in our 40s, 706 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,280 fifties, sixties, 70s. So Yep, that's the goal. 707 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,240 Thank you for explaining that. I appreciate it. 708 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,200 Yeah. And let's go to the final and 709 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,240 last key component, last pillar, race toughness. 710 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,720 This sounds like a mental component as much as a physical 711 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,240 1. So how do you find race 712 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:09,080 toughness and why is it critical for achieving our race day 713 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,240 success? Success. 714 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,040 Yeah, race. Toughness is is huge. 715 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,640 You know, not to toot my own horn, but you know, there's been 716 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,360 a lot of years where I I for whatever reason, you know, 717 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,560 injuries, tendon stuff, you know, back way back in the day, 718 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,360 I didn't necessarily train this train that smart, but you know, 719 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,840 I would do 98% of my runs easy, but I'd show up on race day and 720 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:34,960 crush it. You know, it's like why? 721 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,600 You know, you've never run 7 minute in training and you go 722 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,920 run A6535K You know, how does that happen? 723 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,880 Well, I think it again goes back to the importance of endurance 724 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,640 and, and base work that carries over quite well to, to any type 725 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,000 of race. But you know, race toughness is 726 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:01,960 essentially the ability to battle, battle demons that pop 727 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,960 up during the race. So, and the demons are, you 728 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,280 know, it could be a mental component even going into the 729 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,600 race. It's like, oh, I'm nervous. 730 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:10,560 I hope I does hope it doesn't hurt. 731 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,920 I hope I don't injure myself. I, I know it's going to hurt, 732 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:18,760 but it's also the ability to battle through, you know, 733 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,680 discomfort, You know, in any race, if you're truly racing, 734 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,120 it's going to start to not feel good and then you have a choice 735 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,560 essentially. And again, this is assuming 736 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,320 you've done all the right things around fueling and hydration. 737 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,520 And no point would I tell somebody to put themselves in an 738 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,800 unsafe situation or harmful situation where, you know, don't 739 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,720 listen to this or, hey, you threw up five times, don't know. 740 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,520 So what? Just keep, you know, going, you 741 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,920 know, there are some signals that tell you to slow down that 742 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,880 you have to to listen to. And so a physiologically, I 743 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,440 mean, that's the battle. It is it a mental issue, 744 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,880 psychological or is it a physiological thing that's 745 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,480 holding you back? And I think we can, we can look 746 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,880 at any race, but let's obviously look at a marathon. 747 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,960 So we talked about race toughness. 748 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,440 Yeah, you get to mile 20. I mean, most people are afraid 749 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,640 of that, that, Oh my God, I want to get the mile 20. 750 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,680 It's going to be us going to be miserable those last 6 miles. 751 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,040 And, and, and that's, you know, where now, now the race 752 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,640 toughness starts. Now the race essentially starts 753 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,200 where you have to put yourself or be prepared to put yourself 754 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,520 in a state of mental fortitude and strength that you're going 755 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,800 to have to. I could be, hey, I have to grind 756 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:50,400 to just hold my pace now. OK, that's race mode, battling 757 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,440 the discomfort and getting to the finish line. 758 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,720 We are built to self protect and when things start to not feel 759 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:04,040 good, our natural tendency is to back off, slow down. 760 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,560 So is that a psychological component? 761 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,000 Is that a physiological component? 762 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,960 I think there's things going on physiologically that will tell 763 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:17,200 your brain, you know, trouble is brewing, but in the moment 764 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,840 you're not in trouble. So that's that fine balance. 765 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,760 Doctor Timothy Noakes came up with a 1997 a model called the 766 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,880 central governor model, where it's like, you know, you're 767 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,280 probably tired, you're hurting, but you maybe have more left in 768 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,800 you. You know that that's that's just 769 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,640 that the model of how where do you want to take it? 770 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,120 Do you want to battle through this or you want to give in? 771 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,680 So the race toughness is huge and, and again, back back to me. 772 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,600 It's like I, I thrive on it. It's like I know that last mile 773 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,040 of 5K is going to hurt, but I love it if I throw up at the 774 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:56,920 finish. I don't care. 775 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,800 It's not going to hurt me. It's not harmful to me. 776 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:02,440 And then you could carry that over to longer events too, you 777 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,280 know, but you have to be careful with obviously marathon, you 778 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,040 know, because the harm can occur if you're not listening to 779 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:13,080 certain signals around whatever dehydration depletion, you know, 780 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,760 if it's hot, you know, you got to be smart. 781 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,120 It's like, well, it's 90° and humid, you know, Coach T says I 782 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,800 need to fight through the the heat and my misery. 783 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,800 It's like, well, there's some common sense element to all of 784 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,680 this as well. If you need to slow down, you 785 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,800 slow down. But, but that's the challenge 786 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,240 and what I work with my runners with, you know, which is 787 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:35,920 probably the next question is how do you, how do you teach 788 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,400 that? How can you can you teach 789 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,080 toughness? And the answer is yes. 790 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,880 And the way to teach it, there's a couple things first, so we can 791 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,280 pretty safe pretty much safely say that those who are more fit 792 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,800 are more tough. So if you're really, really fit, 793 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,840 you know, you're more resilient in a race and can withstand 794 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:02,040 these, you know, increasing, you know, lactate the discomfort, 795 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,080 you just more resilient, you can handle it and back off a little 796 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,760 bit and then get back at it if need be. 797 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,080 So, so one of the ways is just get more fit. 798 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,480 You know, if you're more fit, you're more, you're tougher. 799 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,600 I mean, that's, that's common sense. 800 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:21,280 Another way is be smarter. Put yourself in a good position 801 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:26,800 in a race, 5K marathon, you have a 9 minute pace in a marathon 802 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,520 and say I am going to go out at 8:45 and see if I can hold that 803 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,400 and hopefully I finish at 9 minute pace. 804 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,080 Well, you're not really setting yourself in a position a good 805 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,560 setting yourself to be in a good position to be tough later 806 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,960 because you're just being stupid and you're going to get the mile 807 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,640 20. And it's no longer about 808 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,520 Physiology, it's about the stupidity that you did the 809 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,760 previous 20 miles and now you're in shutdown mode. 810 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,080 It's too late. And you know, you can be tough 811 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,920 to get to the finish line. And that's again, a sign of 812 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,120 toughness. Some people could just give up 813 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,400 on it. So there is some sense of 814 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,360 toughness there where So you know what I'm going to get 815 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,520 there. I'm going to grind through. 816 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,760 It's not going to be pretty help. 817 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,320 That's that's toughness. But you know, another way to to 818 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,600 do it is just to be smarter. You know, know what you're 819 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,880 capable of on any race day. And that will set you up to to 820 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,440 the ability to finish stronger and be tougher. 821 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,720 The other thing is, is some drills that you do that I work 822 00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,520 with my athletes, mental, physical, you know, faster 823 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,720 finish runs, you know, at the end of a long run. 824 00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:31,880 Do striders like what you want me to run fast after I'm tired? 825 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,360 Well, we want to keep your form. We want, we want you to feel 826 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,040 good faster finish long run. It's like I'm dying here. 827 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,920 And you want me to run faster the last mile. 828 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,520 You can do it, you know, as long as you, you know, again, I don't 829 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,040 want somebody to be unsafe, but make it happen. 830 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,440 So you kind of practice being tough when you don't want to be 831 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,520 do more 5K races. I love 5K races. 832 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,760 You know, I just love them. And I think element of that is 833 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,760 they build toughness. You know, they hurt, you know, 834 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,880 there's nothing. I think they're fun, but most 835 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,960 runners are like #1 they're wasting my time because who 836 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,720 wants to go do a race for 1520 thirty minutes and then go home? 837 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,400 No, you need to show up and be part of the adrenaline of a race 838 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,800 and, and line up and, and feel those nerves and get out there 839 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,640 and learn how to pace and, and grind through that discomfort. 840 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:31,280 In many cases, it's just the last mile that helps prep you 841 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,400 for races down the road. All these little things, all 842 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,160 these drills slowly but surely just make you a little more 843 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,480 tougher and a little bit more confident too. 844 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,560 So, so those are some drills that I do with, with with my 845 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,840 athletes and, and, and also helping them become more 846 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,680 confident and even feel work. You know, what does it feel like 847 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,880 in a race of a marathon miles 12 to 18 go run 6 miles in 848 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,560 visualizing your miles 12 to 18 where they'll well, I not 849 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,640 shouldn't be dying. So they back off a little bit 850 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:13,440 and and just teaching simulations to prepare them for 851 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,240 for for, you know, being confident and strong in their 852 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:20,840 various events. So I love that this. 853 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,800 Is part of your coaching just because one, it's kind of a 854 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,600 newer thing and then two, if you are, I'm playing with Rana, that 855 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,240 app right now and you know, it has it has workouts and 856 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:36,280 everything, but that's the one thing that you will not get 857 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,280 because it's just. A planet doesn't tell. 858 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,160 You those little things and I feel like so much of A marathon 859 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,800 is mental. Yep. 860 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,960 For sure. Yeah, it's, you know, like my 861 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,040 passion is developing runners. You know, it's if someone says, 862 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,600 hey, give me a plan for 12 weeks, 16 weeks, sure, I'll do 863 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,160 it. But I'm probably not going to 864 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,120 other than, you know, some drills with race toughness and 865 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,960 pacing and, you know, are you going to be a magically better 866 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,960 runner in 12 or 16 weeks following my plan? 867 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,480 Yeah, you're going to learn some tidbits, but you know, this is a 868 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,520 journey, you know, you have to evolve and make improvements and 869 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,040 experiment and, and that's where my passion is. 870 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,880 And, and using all these pillars to help an athlete develop. 871 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,160 And, and sometimes it's going back to basics and, and how do 872 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,440 we, you know, make keep your easy days easy, keep your higher 873 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,400 days higher. How do we build these these 874 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,120 fundamentals to have an athlete improve so that they grow month 875 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,520 to month to month, year to year to year versus make me better in 876 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,080 16 weeks? That's fine. 877 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,200 I like to do that. But I thrive more on putting all 878 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,720 these five pillars together to to create a total athlete that 879 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,920 continues to thrive, improve, stay healthy through their run 880 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,920 journey and have fun. I mean, that's, that's the 881 00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:58,440 foundation of the smart approaches. 882 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,440 You know, we need to make this fun. 883 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,680 We need to stay on the road, enjoy what we're doing, and then 884 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,200 we can work hard and get better, you know, while we're having 885 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,280 fun. I love it. 886 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,800 It's it's. Like you're building, you know, 887 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,760 community and I think that's why a lot of runners like you. 888 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,720 So maybe thank you so much first of all, for explaining all of 889 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,560 this and going through these one by one. 890 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,640 There's so much great information and so much 891 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,720 interesting stuff in there. And for somebody that would like 892 00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:28,400 to know more about your coaching and maybe get involved or just 893 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,760 kind of check you out, how can they best do that? 894 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,080 Yeah, I, I'm. I'm out there in a few places. 895 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:39,080 My, my website is smartapproachtraining.com. 896 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:45,760 I'm on Instagram at, at run coach Todd and my Facebook site 897 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,320 is smart approach training. And then I'm also found on a 898 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,800 Facebook community called I love to run and I'm kind of the, I'm 899 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,280 a coach there. I give weekly tips to chime in 900 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,440 on questions and answers, you know, been on there since 2018 901 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,440 at presence known as Coach T So you can find me there as well 902 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,800 and and learn some stuff with weekly tips and so forth. 903 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,080 Yeah, I love to talk about all this stuff. 904 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,560 I mean, it's it's a passion. It's really about education, you 905 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:19,440 know, imparting. I just want to, you know, tell 906 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,120 runners it's it's, you know, appreciate the sport that you're 907 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,120 in. Love it and if you're truly 908 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,320 wanting to get better just understand what you're doing and 909 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,680 why and why you're on a certain why you're doing a certain run. 910 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:34,280 You know, what's the purpose of that run? 911 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:35,880 You know, where do you want to go? 912 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,040 Is it all about just these next 12 weeks? 913 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,440 Or do you want to get better at all these things to where you're 914 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,920 better a year from now, two years from now, five years from 915 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,400 now, because we're all on this journey. 916 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,520 It's not a short term journey. And if you, if you turn this 917 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:55,400 into a fun, happy lifestyle and kind of do all the right things, 918 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,600 you know, it's magical. I mean, and running is magical. 919 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,760 The journey is magical and there's things that we can tweak 920 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,280 and, and improve on whether you're running one year or 921 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,080 thirty years. I'm trying to get better as a 922 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,000 runner. I've been running for nearly 40 923 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,880 years and I'm, I'm trying to figure things out. 924 00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:15,520 So I love it, though. It's, it's, you know, what can 925 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,080 we do to get better? And in better isn't always about 926 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,840 running a better time. I can't hit times I did 20 years 927 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,440 ago. I don't care. 928 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,120 I love where I'm at and I want to get better with where I'm at 929 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,360 right now. And that's I think the mindset 930 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,040 all of us should have. It should not always be about 931 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,680 this obsession with the time. I think if you do all the right 932 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,080 things, all that stuff takes care of itself. 933 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:40,320 Exactly. It's all. 934 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,920 Relative and we can see that when Boston posts there are race 935 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,000 times requirements. So we know that as we age 936 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,240 numbers go down, VO2 Max has dropped. 937 00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:53,880 But you know, it's it's like the age graded chart, right? 938 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,760 Like we can still improve and be good for our age and ultimately 939 00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,080 be the long happy life and run as long as we can. 940 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,120 Absolutely. You know it well. 941 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:05,120 Thank you, coach. So. 942 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,840 Much. I appreciate you coming on. 943 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,120 You're welcome. Lady, I loved it. 944 00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:14,760 Let's do it again. Thank you, Todd, so much. 945 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,880 For coming on and speaking with me and I hope everybody took 946 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,280 notes. And as I said earlier, Todd's 947 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,560 contact information is going to be in our show notes. 948 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:24,960 So lady, what have you been training? 949 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,120 For so I just started doing. Speed work for the Chicago 950 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,400 Marathon, but I'm also going to Sydney. 951 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,240 But Sydney is going to be a pure fun run for me just because 952 00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:36,920 it's, you know, it's literally 4 weeks away and I figured why not 953 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,520 just enjoy this beautiful race in Australia? 954 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,600 Sounds good. So not training for Australia, 955 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,320 but training for Chicago, yes. So, Lydia. 956 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,880 Are you working on? Anything for Sydney, I sure am 957 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,080 Ryan, you know it. I have been recording a lot of 958 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,720 interviews with guests to create an episode called Everything You 959 00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:57,120 Need to Know about the Sydney Marathon. 960 00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,240 So if you are running Sydney then stay tuned. 961 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:04,200 I'm going to try to release this episode one month before Sydney, 962 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,840 so I have the highest aspirations of dropping this as 963 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:12,640 a video on July 31st and then followed up with a podcast 964 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,440 episode for Monday. So stay tuned for that. 965 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,880 We have some amazing guests. We have the race director of the 966 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,960 Sydney Marathon, the spokesperson for ASICS, not 967 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,840 ASICS, I learned, which is the sponsor of the Sydney Marathon. 968 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:30,240 We have a pace leader coming on. We have the head coach of TSC, 969 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:35,240 Sydney's runners and more people, so super excited for 970 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:36,920 that. Stay tuned for that. 971 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,880 Sounds exciting. Yeah, right. 972 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,680 I'm super excited for it. Any last final thoughts? 973 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,680 Final thoughts? Let's get this podcast done and 974 00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,960 start date night 'cause it is Friday night rain. 975 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,240 All right, so. Without further ado, have a good 976 00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:51,920 week of running. Have a good week of running. 977 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,280 Thanks for tuning in. For more information, go to 978 00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,960 www.marathonrunningpodcast.com or check us out on all channels.