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You're listening to episode 236 
of the Marathon Running Podcast.

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In this episode, we're going to 
look at the 2024 Global Running 

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Survey. 
This is the Marathon Running 

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podcast by Letty and Ryan from 
We Got the Runs. 

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Join us in our running community
for weekly content that is 

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motivational, educational, and 
inspirational, and let the 

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Marathon Running podcast take 
you from the starting line to 

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the finish line and beyond. 
Hey runners, and welcome to 

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episode 236. 
My name is Letty. 

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My name is Ryan. 
And we are back with a very 

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interesting episode where we're 
going to talk about a lot of 

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statistics and data that was 
collected by Running USA, 

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sponsored by Active, where they 
looked at some trends in 

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running. 
But before that you've been 

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travelling a lot, Letty. 
So you went to Greece and you 

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have uploaded already episodes 
about that, right? 

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Yes, I went to Greece to join 
the European Running Business 

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Conference and do some media 
stuff there. 

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You guys can find these videos 
on our YouTube channel, which is

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basically a review of the Athens
Marathon as well as what the 

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European Running Business 
Conference is all about. 

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And that was fun and hopefully 
we can do that in a couple of 

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years when they hold the 
conference again. 

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Yes, in Porto next time, 2026. 
And this last week you were at 

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Tre. 
Yes, I was at Tre and Tre, for 

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those of you guys that don't 
know is the running event, those

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are the that's the acronym for 
it. 

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It's an Expo for vendors and the
people that come to it are 

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retail companies, etc. 
We were able to attend that as 

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well, going as media to kind of 
see what's new for 2025 and 

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what's coming. 
So during this last week you 

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actually got a lot of content, 
didn't you? 

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I did. 
I had scheduled appointments 

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with most of the shoe brands 
that you guys have heard of and 

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some of them probably not. 
And I recorded videos with the 

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brand specialists, not just 
about what's coming out in 2025,

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but also more about their shoe 
line. 

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And for someone who has not 
shopped their shoe line, how 

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they organize it when it comes 
to recovery shoes, tempo shoes 

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and performance shoes and. 
So you're going to come out with

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some videos for people to watch?
Yes, I have so many of them and 

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I will release them over the 
next few weeks hopefully so that

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way you guys can get that 
insight and be excited about 

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what's coming in 2025. 
So, Letty, were you surprised by

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anything coming out? 
I actually was very surprised. 

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Ryan Skechers. 
Skechers 2025, they are coming 

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out with some actual real 
running shoes. 

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Last year when I was at Tre they
had a lot of pickleball shoes 

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but not really going down the 
rabbit hole of creating running 

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shoes. 
But 2025 I think is going to be 

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quite a game changer for them. 
And then another brand I'm 

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actually really excited about 
too is CEP. 

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Have you heard of them? 
Sounds like a compression 

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something or other. 
Yes, exactly. 

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That's the compression sock 
brand. 

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But they're coming out with 
shoes and they're not just 

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regular shoes. 
Those shoes are absolutely 

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gorgeous, plated and they look 
fast. 

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So I'm very excited to release 
that video as well and let you 

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guys see what they're coming up 
with. 

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It'll be interesting to see some
of the people that are, you 

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know, venturing into shoes that 
aren't the traditional brands if

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they make it or if they form 
some type of grip with people. 

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I agree and I kind of feel feel 
it for all these running shoe 

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brands at Tre 'cause there's so 
many of them and then you have 

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the big ones, you know, Hoka, 
who's hosting the Hoka party for

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everyone invited. 
It's got to be hard to break 

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into that market. 
But at the same time, as we will

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learn from this global running 
survey that we're going to talk 

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about today, running is still on
the growth and not to be 

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stopped. 
So maybe there will be room for 

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more brands. 
Yeah, time will tell. 

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Exactly. 
So you want to get into it? 

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Sure. 
So, Letty, who'd you interview? 

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So I talked to Jay Holder, who 
is the director of Running USA 

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and was in charge of the survey.
And yeah, he had presented that 

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survey actually at the European 
Running Business Conference, 

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which is how I found out about 
it. 

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And yeah, it's super 
interesting. 

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So Are you ready to hop into 
that? 

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Let's do it. 
Perfect. 

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So without any further ado, 
we're not going to play my 

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conversation with Jay Holder. 
All right, so I'm on here with 

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Jay Holder. 
Jay, thank you so much for 

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joining me for this. 
Letty, thanks for having me. 

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It's great to talk to you. 
Absolutely. 

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And maybe you can tell our 
audience, just briefly, who you 

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are and what you do. 
Sure. 

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My name is Jay Holder. 
I'm the executive director of 

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Running USA. 
Running USA is the sort of the 

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the community that brings 
together the running event 

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professionals across the 
country. 

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In North America. 
We are a member based nonprofit 

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organization. 
We have almost 300 members and 

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they make up race directors, 
race organizers, vendors who who

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handle products that go into to 
the race experience that that 

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runners have. 
So metal vendors and T-shirt 

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vendors and we do everything 
from education to research to 

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best practices. 
We host a a big conference in 

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February of each year where we 
bring everybody together and and

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talk about what's happening in 
the running space. 

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Absolutely. 
And speaking about research, you

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guys did the Global Runner 
Survey 2024 by Active. 

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So maybe you can tell us a 
little bit about what the goal 

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of the survey was. 
Yeah, the global runner surveys,

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we do a lot of research, but 
this is sort of our, our, our 

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marquee piece of research that 
we do each year. 

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We set out to find out what 
runners are thinking, what they 

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want to spend, where they want 
to race, what distances they 

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want to race. 
And we it's a pretty in depth 

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survey. 
So this year we had 7500 

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responses, people who are 
willing to sit down and spend 10

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minutes talking about how they 
engage with, with running and 

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walking. 
Our goal is to get 10,000 next 

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year. 
So we're working really hard on 

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that. 
But it really gives some, you 

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know, we've got a lot of number 
data in our, in our, in, in our 

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database and, and at our, at our
fingertips. 

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This really gives us some of 
that. 

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So that data that we can, we 
can't get from looking at, at 

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registration and finisher 
reports. 

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So it's pretty comprehensive 
look at at habits in the running

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space. 
Perfect. 

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And before we hop deeper into 
that, maybe tell us a little bit

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about who these people were that
took those 10 minutes of time to

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sit down. 
How did you reach them and what 

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was that type of a cross 
selection of people? 

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Yeah. 
So we, we really kind of, we, we

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count on our members to help us 
reach them. 

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So we, we don't interact 
generally directly with, with 

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runners. 
We are, we interact with our 

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members who are race organizers.
So we ask all of our members to 

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put this out. 
We ask some of our vendors to 

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put this out. 
So these are people who competed

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in Rd. races across the country 
and around the world in the past

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year. 
They are, they, they are not 

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people who don't identify as 
runners and walkers. 

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These are people, they're, 
they're not people who aren't 

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participating in the sport. 
These are always people who are 

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runners and, and, and walkers 
self identified. 

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And yeah, so we're really, but 
we're really reliant on our, our

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members, New York Rd. runners, 
BAA, Twin Cities Marathon, 

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Flying Pig to put out these, to 
put this out to their 

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participants and have them fill 
them out. 94% of our 

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participants were from the US 
this year. 

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One of the reasons that, Lady, 
we saw each other at the 

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European Running Business 
Conference earlier this month 

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was because we really would like
more global responses to this. 

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And so interacting with race 
directors from around the world 

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is is is key to to reaching that
goal. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
To implement the questionnaire 

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in some way or another to to 
have that available and 

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accessible to their runners as 
well. 

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All right, so let's start with 
some of the main topics. 

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Maybe tell me four or five main 
subjects that you thought were 

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the most impactful and maybe 
most shocking as well. 

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Yeah, I don't know if, I don't 
know if I could say anything is 

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shocking because because I've, 
you know, if you are around 

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enough races and you're talking 
to enough people, you kind of 

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know anecdotally that these 
these trends are happening. 

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So I think it's more validating 
of, of what we're seeing. 

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The the big news here is that 
more people want to run and more

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people want to participate in 
races. 

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We know from a number 
standpoint, the participation 

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from every major distance from 
5K to marathon is up about 12% 

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year over year. 
And the marathon distance, it's 

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booming. 
It's up like 26% marathon 

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finishers year to year. 
Yeah, every weekend you see news

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about a marathon having record 
participation and we're seeing 

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that people's desires and wants 
and and needs match the finisher

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data that we're seeing. 
So 60% of people said that 

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they're going to do more races 
this year than they did last 

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year, which is a, which is a 
huge number and super 

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encouraging for the industry. 
And a lot of those people said 

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they're 44% said they're going 
to run a marathon in the next 

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year, which is, which is the 
other than half marathon. 

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That's our highest distance that
people really gravitated 

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towards. 
I think the key take away from 

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for me, and there's a lot of key
takeaways, but the one thing 

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that I've really kind of focused
on and, and we want to help our 

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members learn over the next 
couple months is the most 

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important factor in how someone 
chooses a race is the location 

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of their event. 
And that doesn't mean I'm 

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picking the location because 
it's down the street from my 

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house and I can sleep in my own 
bed. 

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It means it, it could mean that,
but it also means this is a 

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location I want to go to. 
Race directors can't change the 

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location of the race. 
If you are, you know, if, if 

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your race is where your race is.
So it's, it's, it's, it's really

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important that race directors 
and marketers understand how to 

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market and make their location a
destination. 

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We see destination races having 
a real moment. 

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I mean, we know the London 
Marathon had 840,000 people 

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applied to be part of it this 
year because London, besides 

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being a fantastic event, one of 
the best in the world, is a 

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destination for people. 
We know the Disney races sell 

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out year after year. 
We know the New York City 

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Marathon never has a problem 
filling the field, turns 10s of 

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thousands of people away. 
But we also know that Grandma's 

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Marathon in Duluth, MN, which is
a beautiful place. 

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So not knocking Duluth, MN. 
It's it's, it's a gorgeous part 

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of the country, but I think you 
wouldn't call it a destination. 

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And they sold out in 18 hours 
this year. 

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So it's really important to, I 
think it's this, this shows how 

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important it is for race 
organizers to market the 

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location and to create a 
destination event, even if they 

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wouldn't traditionally be known 
as a destination. 

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That for me is probably the 
biggest take away from the the 

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whole survey. 
Some other things, you know, we 

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talked about costs going up and 
we know the cost for everything 

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that we do has gone up and that 
includes races. 

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And a lot of that is because the
cost of doing business for races

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has gone up. 
It costs a lot more to, to rent 

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fence and to rent porta potties 
and to buy shirts than it did 

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five years ago. 
But it doesn't appear that most 

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of our respondents and, and, and
I want to, and I want to couch 

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this with the fact that a lot of
our respondents were, were of, 

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of moderate to high income. 
I would call them upper middle 

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class is a, is a good 
representation of, of the people

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we saw responding to this 
survey. 

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But they're not saying that race
fees are too expensive. 

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They're not saying and they're 
saying that they would pay more 

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for for a better experience. 
So people are willing to spend 

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money in this area. 
I don't know how, you know, 

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shifts upcoming and unknown 
shifts in the economy will 

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change that. 
But at this point, there is a 

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willingness to spend money and I
think that that really shows 

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00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,760
that if you provide a good 
experience, it can't just be a 

229
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,440
start line and a finish line and
a bib. 

230
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,920
If you provide a good 
experience, people will pay for 

231
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,920
the experience. 
People aren't paying for the 

232
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,600
race. 
They're paying for the race is 

233
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,560
part of the part of an overall 
package. 

234
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,560
So I think that's that's big. 
And then the last one I'll 

235
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,640
mention, I'm sorry, I'm not 
counting. 

236
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,000
You said, you said 5 and I don't
know if I've gotten to five. 

237
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,360
We asked about communications 
this year for the first time and

238
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:31,520
we found that 48% of respondents
said that the frequency and 

239
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,360
timing of pre and post race 
event communications are 

240
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,440
important. 4048% agree somewhat,
27% agree completely. 

241
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,280
So that's 70% almost yeah, 
that's almost 80% of respondents

242
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,640
say that that frequency and 
timing of your post and pre 

243
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,200
event communications are 
important. 

244
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,560
Runners want to they want to 
know what's going on. 

245
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:54,800
They want to be, they want, they
don't want to get to the start 

246
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,440
line wondering where they're 
going to put their bags, where 

247
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,160
they're going to park their car.
So race communications, clarity,

248
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:06,400
timing, having a communications 
plan is super, super, super 

249
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,720
important. 
So that that was another one 

250
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:09,880
that that really jumped out at 
me. 

251
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,560
It's just, you know, and we knew
it was important, but 80% saying

252
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:17,320
that that's a big deal to them 
and that that will, you know, to

253
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,160
be part of that experience that 
they're rating afterwards, huge,

254
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,440
huge for race directors to know.
OK. 

255
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,360
So that was quite a lot. 
All right. 

256
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,320
So before I hop into, you know, 
follow up questions with those 

257
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,400
subjects that you mentioned, I 
know that your survey has 

258
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,440
findings that something happens,
but do you have an idea of why 

259
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,520
we saw these numbers influxing 
from all of stages and running? 

260
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,600
Yeah, I think I have a 
hypothesis. 

261
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,080
So one of the areas where we saw
there's a question on here, we 

262
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,720
asked people how long they've 
been running and and I've got my

263
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,560
summary in front. 
I'm not, I'm not rattling these 

264
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,640
all off the top of my head. 
I have my summary of findings 

265
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,760
here and we found that I got to 
find that slide. 

266
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:07,840
Yeah, it's like 19% of runners, 
20% of runners have been running

267
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,800
for four years or less in our 
survey. 

268
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,440
If we think about what happened 
four years ago, we know that 

269
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,680
gyms were closed, sports teams 
weren't happening. 

270
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,720
So yeah, I'm sure you saw it. 
I saw it driving around in the 

271
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,200
midst of the pandemic. 
I saw a lot more people out 

272
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,640
running than I used to see. 
So I think my hypothesis is that

273
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,360
the pandemic and running running
stores will tell you this. 

274
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,920
Running shoe sales are at an all
time high. 

275
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,040
The pandemic created new runners
and now four years into their 

276
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,640
running journey, they're saying,
you know what, I, I, I've been, 

277
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,040
I'm running all these miles, I 
want to run races. 

278
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,360
And so I think that that is a 
big part of it. 

279
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,880
And maybe 2-3 years ago they 
were like, OK, I could run a 5K.

280
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,320
And their confidence is built, 
their base is build. 

281
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,080
And now they're now this group 
of people, this 20% of people 

282
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,600
they consider themselves runners
that came into the sport in the 

283
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,240
last four years are at the point
in their running life cycle 

284
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,400
where they want to run 
marathons. 

285
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,760
So I think that the number 
numbers line up. 

286
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,440
I mean, we can't, we certainly 
don't know, but the numbers line

287
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,160
up very nicely to show that that
that COVID running boom, people 

288
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,120
who started running because that
was the only way to get out and 

289
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,880
exercise during the pandemic. 
They're now they're not showing 

290
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,280
up at start lines. 
And it didn't happen 

291
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,240
immediately. 
I think we all thought, OK, 

292
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,160
2021's going to be here. 
All these people are going to 

293
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,960
come to races. 
That didn't happen because if 

294
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,120
you remember when you started 
running, like it takes a while 

295
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,520
to really consider yourself, you
know, we all know that everybody

296
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,320
can do it, but it takes a while 
to work up the courage to go to 

297
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,080
a race. 
And I think that now we're 

298
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,600
seeing those people show up and,
and, and now it's, it's our job 

299
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,480
to keep them here. 
OK, perfect. 

300
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,080
Yeah, that doesn't make complete
sense. 

301
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,760
We all take a while to go to 
those first races. 

302
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,880
Let's talk a little bit about 
the location and destination. 

303
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,760
You're mentioning that 
Grandma's, for example, is a 

304
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,640
course that now sells out within
the first couple hours or so you

305
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,440
mentioned. 
So what about the fact that 

306
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,480
where does it come in? 
What type of course there's 

307
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,040
obviously we know that there's 
faster courses and there's 

308
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,520
courses that you would run as a 
destination event. 

309
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,280
Do you have any insight as to 
how many people run races to 

310
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,080
simply finish those or to go to 
a good course? 

311
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,640
Because obviously we know 
Grandma is a very fast race. 

312
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,120
Yeah, Grandma is a very fast 
race, but you know, I wouldn't 

313
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,480
consider. 
And again, these are great 

314
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:28,880
places. 
I'm just talking about like 

315
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,000
places that, you know, are 
constantly listed as tourist 

316
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,320
hotspots. 
I also wouldn't consider 

317
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,680
Cincinnati, OH, a tourist 
hotspot. 

318
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,000
But one of the best marathons in
the United States is the Flying 

319
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,760
Pig Marathon. 
And that is a hard course. 

320
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,520
So I think, you know, we, when 
we asked this question, a small 

321
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,000
percentage of runners consider 
themselves serious competitive 

322
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,520
runners. 
And, and, and it's up to 

323
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,440
interpretation what that means. 
That could mean I'm trying to 

324
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,280
break 3 hours for the first 
time. 

325
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,920
It could mean I'm trying to 
qualify for Boston. 

326
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,480
It could mean that I'm trying to
compete against myself. 

327
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,920
We really don't know. 
But it's, it's 20% that say they

328
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,400
consider themselves serious 
competitive runners, which leads

329
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,760
us to, to, to, to assume or know
that, you know, a lot of people 

330
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,400
are doing this for the 
experience. 

331
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,040
I mean, we talked, we were 
talking before we started 

332
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,040
recording about, about Athens. 
You and I both did the Athens 

333
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,560
Marathon and we were doing, if 
we were trying to set APR, we 

334
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,240
probably wouldn't have chosen 
that course. 

335
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,160
It was brutal. 
But a lot of people just want to

336
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,160
go out and have that experience 
of, of finishing And time is, 

337
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,640
it's a factor, but it's, it's 
rarely the top factor. 

338
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,760
So I think that that start to 
finish line experience and that 

339
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,400
means from registration to the 
Expo and my dog is coming to 

340
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,840
start barking at me now from 
registration to the Expo to the 

341
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,760
post race finish area are more 
important than how hard the 

342
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,720
course is. 
I also think that, you know, 

343
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,600
I'll couch that or the caveat 
here is, you know, a brutal, 

344
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,800
ridiculous course like, you 
know, Pikes Peak Marathon is 

345
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,680
going to appeal to people who 
really want to, you know, to go 

346
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,360
up a mountain. 
But I think a hilly course is 

347
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:03,920
less of a turn off for most 
runners than a bad experience or

348
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,400
a less than perfect experience. 
OK, perfect. 

349
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,240
Thank you for clarifying that. 
And with that also let's talk a 

350
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,200
little bit more about 
destination marathons, because 

351
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,560
we don't just have destinations,
we've also have that series 

352
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,440
that's the world major 
marathons. 

353
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,880
That is a series that is in only
6 now 7 I guess, places over in 

354
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,960
the earth. 
And then we have other big city 

355
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,680
marathons that are also major 
marathons, but they don't have 

356
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,320
the title, they're not part of 
the series. 

357
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,840
Then we also have the half 
series that's happening in 

358
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,680
Europe. 
So maybe talk to us a little bit

359
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:38,640
about how these series marathons
and half marathons now play into

360
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,440
being part of a destination race
versus others like Stockholm or 

361
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,480
Sweden where it's different. 
Yeah, I mean the the six star, 

362
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,280
the six star system that that 
the Abbott World Marathon Majors

363
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,720
did was brilliant. 
I mean that made people want to,

364
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,320
you know, come complete a task. 
So I do think that there is 

365
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,960
there is something to to be said
about about races that are part 

366
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,480
of a series because there is a 
feeling of completion when you 

367
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,800
get them all done. 
And of course Abbott World 

368
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,040
Marathon Majors just added 
Sydney to the list. 

369
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,720
So now, now all those people who
spent all that money on, on six 

370
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,240
stars need to go to another 
city. 

371
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:14,440
I also, but I also think that 
there is a barrier there. 

372
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,080
And so that's super popular, but
you need to have a lot of 

373
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,560
disposable income and a lot of 
time on your hands to get that 

374
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,760
done. 
So I think it's, you know, it's 

375
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,800
sort of a, it's, it is a, there 
are pros and cons to this, to 

376
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,440
the series aspect of things. 
But I do certainly think that 

377
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,960
like any time you are creating a
list that people have to check 

378
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,400
off to complete, you're adding 
it, you're adding a piece of 

379
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,720
marketing firepower that that a 
lot of races don't have. 

380
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,960
So there's certainly, there is 
certainly a benefit to that. 

381
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,800
OK, perfect. 
And now I want to move on to 

382
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,560
talking about the cost of a 
marathon. 

383
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,000
I personally am from Europe, so 
knowing the prices of marathons,

384
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,240
comparing them to the marathon 
prices of the US, there's a huge

385
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:55,600
difference. 
That difference is now getting a

386
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,480
little bit smaller, but you 
could literally sign up for the 

387
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,120
Paris Marathon and other 
marathons. 

388
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,960
Even Berlin used to be a lot 
cheaper than the US races that 

389
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:06,720
if they're even not majors, 
they're in the $200.00 and up. 

390
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,040
Maybe talk to us a little bit 
about that and maybe there are 

391
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,600
some findings from people 
outside of the United States. 

392
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,360
I know you only had 6% that were
global, but is there any 

393
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,840
information you can give us? 
Yeah, I and I don't have, I 

394
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,280
don't have the spending desires 
broken down on on global lines. 

395
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,720
But we did find that, you know, 
there are there are, there's a 

396
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,120
not an insignificant amount of 
people who think that that race 

397
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:32,280
fees are, are too expensive. 15%
say they strongly agree with 

398
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,480
that with agree with that 
statement. 

399
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,400
But overall, people are not what
their chief complaints are 

400
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,680
generally not the cost of of the
race. 

401
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,160
And again, and it might be that 
our respondents do have more 

402
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,600
disposable income than the 
average than the average. 

403
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,800
I wouldn't say American in this 
in this sense because 94% of our

404
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,120
of our respondents were 
American. 

405
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,720
But we know that they're that, 
that people are willing to pay 

406
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,080
the prices. 
So there is no real reason at 

407
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,160
this point for race organizers 
to 1 lower them, but also the 

408
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,640
cost of doing business is a lot 
higher than it used to be. 

409
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,000
You know, the while race fees 
have gone up, they haven't gone 

410
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,360
up at the same rate that the 
cost of putting on a race has 

411
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:12,560
gone on. 
The cost for police, the cost 

412
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,240
for fences, the cost for Porter 
potties, the cost for shirts and

413
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,160
that and that those are going to
continue to climb. 

414
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,600
These are not prices that are 
going down. 

415
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,560
So that's a big reason that 
we're seeing that we're seeing 

416
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,200
race prices higher than they 
were five years ago. 

417
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,640
But again, it doesn't feel like 
it's driving away. 

418
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,080
It doesn't feel like it's 
driving away competition. 

419
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,720
We know the New York City 
Marathon can cost up to $300 to 

420
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,760
do, but they every year they're 
turning away 10s of thousands of

421
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,800
people. 
So at this point you know that 

422
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:45,400
the the the cost sort of paces 
with the demand for the product.

423
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,800
OK, perfect. 
And I mean last but not least, I

424
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,400
guess I would like to ask you a 
little bit about your opinion on

425
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,440
a subject because I know you're 
very familiar with the Boston 

426
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,680
Marathon and the influx of 
numbers that qualify and the 

427
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,000
cutting times etcetera. 
So we all know that the Boston 

428
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,120
Marathon starting line does not 
is not able to host more than 

429
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,320
30,000 runners. 
What are your thoughts on that 

430
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,880
and are there any ways for 
Boston to expand and not leave 

431
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,640
runners that qualify hungry or 
alter the starting times? 

432
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,360
Yeah, it's really tough. 
As you said, you've been to 

433
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:24,120
Hopkinton. 
It is a, it is a very narrow St.

434
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,240
up there and and they program as
many people as possible. 

435
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,920
I think it's really hard to 
predict the trends of, of paces 

436
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,880
that people are going to run 
when you're putting out 

437
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,600
qualifying time. 
So I think, you know, Boston 

438
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,880
tries to do this every year. 
It's an inexact science. 

439
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,640
And every year people, people 
rise to the times and they and 

440
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,440
they run faster than their 
qualifying times. 

441
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,240
And then there has to be some 
hard decisions made. 

442
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,600
We're actually working on a 
study right now at Running USA 

443
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,240
to show where trends in marathon
times have gone on in the past 

444
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,640
five years. 
And I think that'll be some, 

445
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,720
some interesting. 
Those would be interesting 

446
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,280
statistics for people to see 
when when we put that out. 

447
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,160
I think Boston does a does a 
great job of of, of, as I said, 

448
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,760
an inexact science. 
I'm not sure you could grow to 

449
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,000
that race. 
I think that, you know, that 

450
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,560
maybe some more charity entries 
to allow people to get in. 

451
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,240
I do think that the qualifying 
standards are, I think it's the 

452
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,520
one race in the country that has
qualifying and I in the world 

453
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,680
really that has qualifying. 
And I do think that's a unique 

454
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,600
aspect to the Boston that to, 
you know, to, to what makes 

455
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,840
Boston, Boston. 
I also think that, you know, 

456
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,240
it's, it's hard to make any 
major changes to a race like 

457
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,280
that, not because of tradition, 
because people talk about 

458
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,320
tradition a lot, but because of 
the number of people that are, 

459
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:45,840
the number of governing bodies, 
sponsors that are involved in 

460
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,480
this event. 
They run through 8 cities. 

461
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,120
So expanding, maybe making it a 
2 day race, all that would 

462
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,880
require so much buy in from so 
many different people that I 

463
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,440
think it's a really hard thing 
to change. 

464
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,000
So I know that they're always 
looking for, for ways to make 

465
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,080
that race more accessible. 
I know the BAA hears the here's 

466
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,080
the feedback, here's the 
complaints, here's the here's 

467
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,600
the praise. 
But I know that any change to 

468
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,760
that race is going to be glacial
just because of the the amount 

469
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,960
of moving parts that are 
involved with with making it any

470
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,640
different than it currently is. 
OK, perfect. 

471
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,360
And Jay, maybe you can let us 
and our listeners know where we 

472
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,480
can find the survey if they want
to read the full thing. 

473
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,160
Yeah, you can go. 
You can go to runningusa.org. 

474
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,000
We have that in our marketplace 
and we've got lots of research 

475
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,040
in there. 
We have over 400 million race 

476
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,480
results at our fingertips and 
we're constantly trying to comb 

477
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,960
through those and see what what 
new data we can find about 

478
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,200
what's going on in the running 
space. 

479
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,120
Perfect. 
Thank you so much. 

480
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:48,000
Thanks, Letty. 
Thank you Jay for speaking with 

481
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,680
me and giving me all this 
information. 

482
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,240
I hope you guys learned 
something interesting about our 

483
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,240
favorite sport. 
I think surveys are always 

484
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,280
interesting because it kind of 
can show you the trend of what 

485
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,000
people are thinking or doing. 
Exactly, and hopefully we will 

486
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,040
be able to have a even more 
broad pool of participants in 

487
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,320
next year's survey by increasing
the number of participants from 

488
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,800
outside of the country. 
Yeah, that will be interesting. 

489
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,360
So speaking about global 
running, you're planning a trip 

490
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,080
to Kenya? 
I am planning a trip to Kenya 

491
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,000
and it's gonna happen rather 
soon. 

492
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:26,160
We are hoping to go to Kenya to 
explore a professional running 

493
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,960
training camp and I'm super 
excited about that. 

494
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,480
Are they setting up like 
vacations too, or like things 

495
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,840
for normal people or for anyone 
else to go and visit? 

496
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,320
So this particular training camp
is trying to expand and get to 

497
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,320
that point and we are basically 
going to be the first set of 

498
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,760
testers for that. 
So it's kind of exciting too. 

499
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,760
Also very exciting is that it's 
a not just a training camp, but 

500
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,640
it's with the professional 
athletes. 

501
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,440
And you know, within the next 
couple of weeks, once we 

502
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,280
finalize all the planning, we 
can kind of hop into which 

503
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,680
runners we're going to be 
interviewing and I guess 

504
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,920
motorbiking next to since we 
can't keep up with them. 

505
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,400
So you'll have to tune back in 
to see how the trip to Kenya 

506
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,160
turns out. 
Absolutely. 

507
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:20,080
And also be sure to subscribe to
our YouTube channel. 

508
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,560
We are at running podcast on 
YouTube because I'm sure I'll be

509
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,720
releasing tons of video footage 
on that because that's going to 

510
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,560
be a very, very exciting trip 
for us. 

511
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,160
So stay tuned. 
Absolutely, Ryan. 

512
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,480
And stay tuned for next week, 
this episode, hopefully soon we 

513
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,600
will have a gift guide for you 
guys like we do every year. 

514
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,120
And with that. 
Have a good week of running. 

515
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,720
Thanks for tuning in. 
For more information and 

516
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,640
marathon running news, please 
head to 

517
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,960
www.marathonrunningpodcast.com 
and we'll be back next week.