1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,720 You're listening to episode 277 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,040 In this episode, we're going to talk about how to train for two 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,240 marathons in one season. This is the Marathon Running 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,360 Podcast with Letty and Ryan. Join us for weekly content on 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,240 all things running and let us take you from the starting line 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:26,200 to the finish line and beyond. Hey runners, and welcome to 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,720 episode 277. My name is Letty. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,720 My name is Ryan. And we are back with another 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,400 episode. I'm going to let the cat out of 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,600 the bag. We are hosting a trip to Kenya 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,040 for next year and we're inviting all of you guys to hop on our 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,320 website. I'm going to put it down in the 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,160 show notes. It's going to be a 10 day trip 14 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,760 to Kenya at a run camp. Super exciting and playing lots 15 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,720 of little things. Hopefully we get to go see a few 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,760 of these really high level training camps. 17 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,760 It's all in the works. If you're interested, go to the 18 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,480 website itsruncampkenya.com and message me if you have any 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,160 questions. And if you're interested to see 20 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,879 what it's like, there are YouTube videos of Buddy's trip 21 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,320 to Kenya. Oh yes, I did a vlog for that 22 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,680 too, although it was a different training camp and this is going 23 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,480 to be a little bit different. But I think also the website has 24 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,720 a lot of pictures and ideas of an itinerary. 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,360 And I think maybe we'll do a whole episode on doing this 26 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,600 running camp because I think there's a lot of stuff to be 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,480 shared. Kenya is one of those places 28 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,920 that are a little bit mysterious for a lot of us, honestly, 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,560 living in the Western world, usually you don't just randomly 30 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,960 travel to Kenya. And I think this is a really 31 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:37,480 great way of seeing the country, not just if you're a really good 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,440 runner, but also if you're into cultural experiences. 33 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,600 This is for all levels of runners. 34 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,440 You know, all you need to be is a runner and interested in the 35 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,840 Kenyan running community and we'll do quite a few things for 36 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,240 cultural immersion. So check it out and see if it's 37 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,880 something you might want to do. Yes, absolutely. 38 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,200 Today we're going to talk about how to train for two marathons 39 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,680 in one season. Yes. 40 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:03,320 So basically I feel like with marathon training plans, you put 41 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,000 all your eggs in one basket, right? 42 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,160 Because you are doing all this training, but you only have one 43 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,640 race day. Well, what if you sign up for 44 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,720 Chicago and then you got lucky and you got drawn for the New 45 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,920 York City Marathon lottery, which is more difficult to get 46 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:20,720 into that race than getting into Harvard, statistically speaking. 47 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,160 So obviously you're not going to say no, right? 48 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,120 You're going to do both. And now we're going to talk 49 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,720 about how to train for two marathons so close together. 50 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:32,920 So you basically have two chances of running a great race. 51 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:35,360 You're not putting all your eggs in one basket anymore. 52 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,640 You like that analogy? All eggs in one basket. 53 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,520 Yeah. I mean, I guess I think that's 54 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,680 something that most training plans don't address because most 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,080 training plans seem to address like, or focus on just doing a 56 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,360 marathon. But if you're going to do 57 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:49,640 multiple in a short time period, you know, it probably would vary 58 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:51,640 how you would approach it. So it's interesting. 59 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,600 Yeah, that's right, Ryan. And I think that's a good thing 60 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,160 that we asked coach Chris Knighton to come on and speak to 61 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,320 us in regards to that. Yeah, you do it pretty commonly, 62 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,640 like you hit multiple marathons up a year like quite often. 63 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:08,760 So that'll be good info for you. Yeah, but note, I only have one 64 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,800 that I'm racing. Everything else is kind of a fun 65 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,320 run. I want to keep it that way. 66 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,240 So Speaking of multiple races, you did Sydney and then you're 67 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,840 going to do Chicago when Chicago. 68 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:23,280 Chicago is a month out from now. So about a month and two weeks 69 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,160 is the gap between your two marathons? 70 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,680 Yes. And you're focusing on Chicago 71 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,200 for time. And Sydney was fun. 72 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,240 Yeah, I mean, that was the initial plan, but here's the big 73 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,960 butt. I like big butts and I cannot 74 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,840 like actually, I don't like this big butt. 75 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,600 I don't know what's happening with my training right now. 76 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,600 I feel a little bit stagnant and I've been really fatigued since 77 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,960 coming back from Sydney, not from the marathon. 78 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,920 The marathon I ran easy, but I think it was all the travelling 79 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,880 and and lack of sleep. I've been fighting insomnia for 80 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,840 the last week and so this whole week I've just been dragging. 81 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,000 And yes, I don't know about Chicago being a race pace 82 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,600 anymore. I'm going to decide and see. 83 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,720 Maybe I'll just turn it into a fun run. 84 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,080 I don't know, Ryan. Yeah, and for anyone that wants 85 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,800 to look back on any Sydney race, they can watch it, right? 86 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,360 Yes, I have a YouTube video that I made. 87 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,760 It took me quite a bit because there was hundreds and hundreds 88 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,480 of video clips that I put together. 89 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,960 I hope you enjoyed it, Ryan. I know it's on your watch list, 90 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:29,280 but it's it's been a lot of fun. And you know, when I was cutting 91 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:32,960 it, it made me realize how much I really just enjoy the fun. 92 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,120 Runs so much more than racing, honestly. 93 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,480 You know, no pressure, no nervousness, no jitters, no 94 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,760 fueling. Yeah, You know, I don't know, I, 95 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,320 I kind of like that idea too. I mean, some people have 96 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,000 competitiveness that outweighs maybe their enjoyment of a race, 97 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,080 or maybe they just want to do as well as they can. 98 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,280 But you know, there's something fun about just going and 99 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:55,440 experiencing it, too. I think it's because when I 100 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,440 started running or running marathons, I was in law school 101 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,120 and I never really trained for them. 102 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,400 It was just kind of an excuse to get away from the books, and I 103 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,160 think it's kind of ingrained in me that I really just enjoy 104 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,920 running them so much more than racing, especially since I know 105 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,440 I'm not going to win them. Yeah, I don't know, to me that 106 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,760 sounds good too, because like if you train and you you're going 107 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,960 to be fast, but then you lower your pace a bit for the run 108 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,920 itself, it'll be enjoyable. Whereas if you like, you know, 109 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,960 if you just slow, it's just going to take a long time. 110 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,440 It doesn't exclude the the benefits of training, but it 111 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,600 still, you know, maybe makes it more enjoyable. 112 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,320 I don't know. Yeah, and your easy run is also 113 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,160 different depending on what you've trained for, right? 114 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,880 Like when you're fit, you can just lay off 3 minutes and you 115 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,120 have so much more of an enjoyable race, but you're still 116 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,000 fast. Whereas if you are redlining and 117 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,600 untrained completely, then that just makes it really hard. 118 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,760 But anyway, so just a couple things to think about. 119 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,160 So yeah, if you have not watched the video yet, I invite you to 120 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,400 do so. And it is on my YouTube channel, 121 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,720 which you can find by typing in Letty Runs into the search bar. 122 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,840 It's the latest video that I posted. 123 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:06,440 So that's that. So you want to get into. 124 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,440 It sure. So without any further ado, I'm 125 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,360 not going to play my conversation with Chris 126 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,160 Knighton. All right, so I'm back on with 127 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,800 Chris Knighton. Chris, thank you so much for 128 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,680 joining me again. Thanks for having me back on 129 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,440 Letty, I always love being on your show. 130 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,480 Yes. And I'm very excited to talk to 131 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,000 you about something that might that some people might try to do 132 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,880 this fall even. We're going to be talking about 133 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,920 running two races in one season. So meaning I'm just going to 134 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,720 give the majors as an example. But you know how there is like a 135 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Sydney marathon that just happened, and then there's 136 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,800 Chicago, or you have Chicago and then there's New York. 137 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,680 For a person that was lucky enough to be drawn or to have 138 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,680 gotten into both races, it's hard because a lot of times 139 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,360 those races you can't just defer. 140 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,040 So we're going to talk about what the best strategy would be 141 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,120 to be able to run 2 races in one in one season. 142 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,440 Also kind of a perk because in that way, I always feel like 143 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,000 with marathon training, you put all your eggs in one basket, you 144 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,560 train for one race and that's it. 145 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,160 But with this, you could almost have something like a redemption 146 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,160 race potentially. So we're going to talk about 147 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,320 that. Yeah, Yeah. 148 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,600 I like this topic. I've helped a lot of athletes do 149 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,320 this, I would say. And typically in the situation 150 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,120 that you just said where they they've, you know, kind of by 151 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,600 luck ended up getting into two majors in, in one season. 152 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,560 Typically I wouldn't recommend somebody sign up for two 153 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,840 marathons back-to-back like this. 154 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,440 So close but but it can definitely be done. 155 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,520 And and, you know, this year I have people doing the some 156 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,080 combination of Berlin, New York and Chicago, which are all 157 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,840 pretty close to each other, nobody doing all three, but 158 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,360 several people doing two of those 3. 159 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,800 So yeah, we can definitely talk about how to make the most of 160 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,160 it. Yes, and we also have super 161 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,880 athletes such as Elliot Kiptogi and Saffan Hassan running two 162 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,360 races. They just announced that after 163 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,360 doing Sydney, now they're doing New York, which only gives them 164 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,200 eight weeks also in between. But yeah, so let's hop into 165 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,560 that. So let's talk about how you 166 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,440 would approach this. Is there such a thing as a race 167 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,200 B race? What would you tell your 168 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,880 athletes that come to you and say, hey Chris, I signed up for 169 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,520 two races within 4 to 8 weeks of time between them? 170 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,960 Yeah, what I always tell folks when they, when they ask me this 171 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,840 question, and you know, often they first just kind of ask 172 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,559 like, hey, is this even possible? 173 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,240 Like is this just a stupid idea? Generally, I tell them, you 174 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,040 know, we can definitely make it work, but there's going to be, 175 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,440 you're going to have to make some, some clear decisions on 176 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,080 how you want to approach it. And it's going to be very 177 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:56,600 personalized to that individual athlete and what they what they 178 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,400 want to get out of these two races and what their goals are 179 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,360 both, I guess, from a performance perspective and just 180 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,240 an enjoyment perspective of the travel and being there for the 181 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,440 race. So it's very personalized, but 182 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,640 we can kind of talk about some of the different ways I've 183 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,080 handled this with my athletes. And, you know, if if you're 184 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,400 listening and you're in this situation, I think this is 185 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,400 something where it can be really helpful to kind of talk through 186 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,680 your your thought processes with someone that you trust. 187 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,200 Because often kind of talking this out, people maybe think, 188 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,720 you know, they want to approach the two races in a certain way. 189 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,480 But then, you know, when they kind of talking through with 190 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,360 someone, they're like, oh, actually, maybe let's do it this 191 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,240 other way. But hopefully this podcast gives 192 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,840 you some ideas on how to approach it, You know, in terms 193 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,080 of what the exact training is going to look like between the 194 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,720 two races. It really depends on how much 195 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,120 time you have. You know, if it's one month 196 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,480 apart, that's very different than two months apart, which is 197 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:52,960 very different than three months apart. 198 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,600 So, you know, depending on how granular you want to get with 199 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,760 it, Letty, we can talk about some of those hypothetical 200 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,880 situations. But in general, the the training 201 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,440 is going to be very personalized to the athlete depending on the 202 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,920 like how they recover from the first race and how much time 203 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,000 they have and what their goals are. 204 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,560 But I guess the first thing you would want to decide is, OK, you 205 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:20,360 have these two races. Do you want to prioritize one 206 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,400 over the other? I think that's probably the 207 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,480 first question you want to ask. Sometimes the priority race is 208 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,080 the first one and sometimes it's it's the second one. 209 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,440 And how you handle your training is going to vary depending on 210 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,640 that. So so how about maybe we start 211 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,440 there thinking about how to prioritize the two marathons, 212 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,840 Lady, what do you think of that? I think that's a great idea and 213 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,640 I think we should stick with them imaginary races that are 214 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,040 four to six weeks apart because I want to make it more 215 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,960 challenging for you as you talk to us. 216 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,160 Because I know that, you know, if you have 8 weeks, you can 217 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,800 potentially have, I mean, obviously have a lot more time 218 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,520 to recover and then really dive into a little bit of training 219 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,440 again. But with this race being four to 220 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,720 six weeks apart, I know there is a taper face before a marathon, 221 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,320 normally between two to three weeks, so I want to make it as 222 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,600 challenging as possible for you and have these potential races 223 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,240 four to six weeks apart from each other. 224 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,080 Yeah. So I think if we look at, so 225 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,000 this year we look at the Chicago Marathon, it looks like it's on 226 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:25,000 October 12th, 2025 and then the New York Marathon is November 227 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,320 2nd, 2025. So I, I do have a a couple of 228 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,720 athletes who are actually doing that double this year and that 229 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,280 looks I'm just quickly looking. So it's one, two and these 230 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,720 things are close. That's only three weeks apart. 231 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,120 In that case, still doable double. 232 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,680 But let's let's say like, let's say like 4 to six weeks apart 233 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,000 would be what you have, which I think maybe if you're doing 234 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,120 Berlin in New York, Berlin is September 21st, so that's coming 235 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,520 up. And then New York is November 236 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:04,080 2nd, that would be? Just roughly 5 weeks or. 237 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,040 So roughly 5 weeks or so, yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. 238 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:14,880 So Berlin and New York, SO12345, I think that's six weeks. 239 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,280 And yeah, I've, I've had people get into those. 240 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,680 Those can both be challenging races to get into with the 241 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,840 watery or qualifications. So yeah, I've had people do that 242 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,200 double before. Yeah. 243 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,280 So I guess that's the first question, which, which of these 244 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,760 two races do you want to prioritize? 245 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,440 And to figure that out, right, you're going to have to think 246 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:39,280 about your, your, your goals. Are you looking to run APR? 247 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,520 You know, is 1 race going to be easier or better suited to the 248 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,640 type of race you're good at running than the other? 249 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,280 For example, Berlin is one of the fastest marathons in the 250 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,520 world. New York is very challenging. 251 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,040 Marathon people runway way faster in Berlin than they do in 252 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,480 New York. And I think that for an 253 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,840 experienced runner who's run a lot of marathons, New York is a 254 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:08,400 pretty hard course to PRN, whereas Berlin is of, you know, 255 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:13,280 one of the best courses to PRN. So you want to consider things 256 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:19,840 like that of the majors. For example, Boston is hard, New 257 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,760 York is hard. Those are not great courses to 258 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,120 try to PRN if you're a experienced marathoner. 259 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:32,800 However, London, Chicago, Berlin, Tokyo, those are all 260 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,800 fast courses, good ones to PR And I guess now Sydney is in the 261 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,280 world marathon majors. That sounds like that's a 262 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,440 challenging course. So maybe not the best one to PR. 263 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,600 And so, you know, think about that. 264 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,480 How much does your does time matter in, in terms of how you 265 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,720 approach these races? If, if that was the case and 266 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,520 I've, I've had people do this before, like I have a, my 267 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,080 athlete this year who's doing the Chicago and then New York 268 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,040 double. She's focusing on Chicago. 269 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,640 So Chicago comes first. She wants to run APR is one of 270 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,920 my fastest. She's she's my fastest female 271 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,560 athlete right now. She actually broke 3 hours in 272 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,280 her last marathon, which was, which was amazing to see. 273 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,360 She's looking around even faster in Chicago. 274 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,800 So that's going to be her focus. And then she's going to recover 275 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,040 and do New York because she got into New York and wants to take 276 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,760 advantage of that opportunity. But she's going to do that more 277 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,040 like a fun run. So we'll see. 278 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,240 I don't expect her to run nearly as fast there. 279 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,720 But in that three-week gap between, she's going to really 280 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,960 focus on recovery, build back a little bit of mileage. 281 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,320 You know, in three weeks there's really not time to train, but 282 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,520 she could get back into a good state of performance in three 283 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,080 weeks and then she's going to more. 284 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:48,920 So just do New York as a fun run. 285 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,120 If you were, if your second marathon though was going to be 286 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,680 your goal race, the one where you want to run really fast. 287 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:03,120 What you can do is treat the the first race more just like a 288 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,880 training run. And it sounds like, well Eddie, 289 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,080 you to some degree just did this with your run in Sydney. 290 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,520 You told me before we started recording, you ran the City 291 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,840 Marathon at a comfortable pace. Maybe that's going to be one of 292 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,640 your longest long runs of training. 293 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,440 Had a great time. I'm sure you got very valuable, 294 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,280 valuable experience from being there on race day and it's going 295 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,360 to be a great training tool which when you go around 296 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,920 Chicago, if you end up racing that fast, will will help you. 297 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,200 So, so those are some of the considerations you want to keep 298 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,080 in mind. Last thing I guess before I pass 299 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,880 it back to you, Eddie, is I would say in general, it's good 300 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,280 to prioritize one race over the other. 301 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,640 I think if you're doing 2 races within four to six weeks like 302 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,320 we're talking about, I don't think it's realistic to expect 303 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,240 you're going to run super fast and run to the best of your 304 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,160 ability in both races. I think they're too close to 305 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:00,800 each other. It is possible. 306 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,160 I've seen people do it, but I would not plan on that. 307 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,200 I I think that it's very important to prioritize one over 308 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,640 the other and make that clear with how you approach your 309 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,960 training and how you race the races. 310 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,440 OK, perfect. Thank you for that. 311 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,600 Yeah, I know. I think it's important to spell 312 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,040 out which race you're going to prioritize. 313 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,240 I have seen what you just said. The latter though where I have a 314 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,000 lot of guy friends that run fast sub 3 runners and a lot of them 315 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,440 do the whole Boston to London thing which they are one week 316 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,720 apart and they end up breaking three hours and being right 317 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,160 around the 350 sevens for both races. 318 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,800 And I'm just thinking, what is it that they do or what they 319 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,160 focus on after that first marathon is over? 320 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,840 So I wanted to see what in European is the absolute first 321 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,120 thing a runner should focus on immediately after the marathon, 322 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,200 because that recovery window is really short. 323 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,320 Yeah, totally. So you know when it when you 324 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,200 only have a week, 3 weeks or even a month between marathons, 325 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,599 there's no time to train or further your fitness between the 326 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,040 races. You're simply just trying to get 327 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:15,319 back to basically the, the superhuman previous state that 328 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,079 you're in before your first marathon. 329 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,079 So recovery is the most important thing. 330 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,000 And, and yeah, that Boston, London double I've, I've seen 331 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,839 people do it. I've been really impressed like 332 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,040 you, you know, to some degree, I think super shoes have really 333 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,000 sort of changed the nature of the marathon. 334 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,160 People run, you know, marathons and have much less impact on the 335 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,480 body now that people are running into, you know, cushioned shoes. 336 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,040 So that has made a big difference. 337 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,640 I mean, historically before super shoes like like before. 338 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,040 And for anyone who's new to running like before, I mean, 339 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,320 what was it like 20? So like 2019 or something? 340 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,760 2017 I think when the first alpha flies, I mean wave vapor 341 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,600 flies came out. Yeah, carbonated shoes. 342 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,720 People would essentially run marathons in flats, which were 343 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,960 what people would now call, like, minimalist barefoot shoes. 344 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,120 And, you know, you would just be destroyed like after a race 345 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,920 nowadays, I mean, a lot of people are are walking around 346 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,960 just fine, like the day after a marathon. 347 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,320 And I and largely I think the shoes have a big role to play in 348 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,440 that. So that's been good. 349 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,680 That's been good for the sport. But really just prioritizing 350 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,960 recovery as soon as possible after a race. 351 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:25,280 You know, I, I always recommend not running for the, the, the 352 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,640 week after a race. You know, if you have a month or 353 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,640 more between races, I would say don't run for two weeks after 354 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,240 your, your race. Just let your body fully rest 355 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,760 and recover from the impact of that run. 356 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,840 You know, walking, riding a bike around white exercising, all 357 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,480 that stuff is good cause 'cause motion will promote blood flow 358 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,000 and healing and, and all that's good, but not further damaging 359 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,520 your body with the impact stresses of running is really, 360 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,320 really helpful for a week or or more after a marathon. 361 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,280 You know, if you are doing something like the Boston, 362 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,320 London double, I mean, you really just need to be in tune 363 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:06,040 with your body, like immediately rehydrating, refueling. 364 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,480 You know, if I was to do that, I would probably even just like do 365 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,600 something like an ice bath as soon as I finished that first 366 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:18,120 marathon to let my let my muscles recover faster and not 367 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,200 be so inflamed after that first marathon. 368 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,960 But you know, if you have more time, like 3 weeks, 4 weeks, six 369 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,520 weeks, you don't need to be so crazy with like immediately 370 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,560 getting into recovery. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of 371 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,080 the recovery is, is sort of the the name of the game or 372 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,200 priority, I guess if you're doing a marathon back-to-back 373 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,200 within a month or six weeks or less. 374 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,560 Yeah, it's not about more training. 375 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:42,760 Awesome. Absolutely. 376 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,480 And I guess maybe we're talking about healing and recovering. 377 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,760 Maybe you can just remind us what happens physiologically to 378 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,560 our body when we run a marathon. Because obviously you're a coach 379 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,400 and you write those training runs on Sunday in the long runs 380 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,880 and you never put 26 miles on there. 381 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,480 But here, if we're using one marathon as a train run for the 382 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,720 next one, what happens when we go that far of a distance? 383 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,120 Yeah. I mean, if you're just using it 384 00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:11,840 like a training run, it's not necessarily going to be that 385 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,960 that hard on the on the body. I mean, running 26 miles is is 386 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,880 never easy. You know, even if you run it 387 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,840 really fast, it's probably going to be, I mean, or, or I mean, 388 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,480 even if you're relatively fast around here, like you're 389 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,760 probably going to be out there for three hours or more. 390 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,160 It's, it's not going to be an easy day by any means. 391 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,240 But you know, for, for more experienced runners who are 392 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,720 doing 20 plus miles, multiple 20 miles in their training cycles, 393 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,120 you know, I commonly have athletes who are running higher 394 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:44,200 mileage run like 22/23/24 miles and training run. 395 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,040 You know, if you're doing something like Berlin and and 396 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,480 then New York and say you wanted to focus on New York for some 397 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,480 reason, just do Berlin easy or treated as a workout. 398 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,960 Like yeah, it could just be a 26.2 mile easy run or 399 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:04,720 potentially like a workout where you do maybe first half fairly 400 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,400 comfortable and then second-half try to negative split it. 401 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,320 I think treating it like a workout can be really helpful 402 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,200 for getting more of like the understanding what it's like to 403 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,440 race a bit more or getting more practice racing than just simply 404 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,040 doing an easy run. But doing it as an easy run can 405 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,240 be really helpful as well. But you know, regardless of how 406 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,160 you approach the race, you know, anytime you do a hard training 407 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,840 effort, it, it essentially beats up your body and you're weaker 408 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,280 immediately after it than you were beforehand. 409 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,560 You know, it's, it's, it's why you can't, I, I mean, for, for 410 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,520 anyone who has ever tried to like do a push up challenge or 411 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,680 something like that, you know that if you do like 100 push ups 412 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,840 one day and, and you do it, then you go try to do push ups like 413 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,600 the next day, you probably feel super weak and you can like 414 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,720 hardly do any. It's the same thing with, with 415 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,080 running. Like if you ran 26 miles one 416 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,920 day, kind of strong pace, you know, next day you're probably 417 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,280 going to be pretty sore. You're going to have less 418 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,920 energy, probably wouldn't want to run close to 26 miles the 419 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,400 next day. You know, it probably takes a 420 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,120 good week to two weeks to really reap the benefits of any 421 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,800 training session. So that's one of the reasons why 422 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,280 we alternate generally between hard days and easy days. 423 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:21,000 And you know, you know that if you do a marathon as, as a 424 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,960 training run, whether it's a workout or easy after I would 425 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,440 say like 2 weeks, you've, you're going to have reaped the 426 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,360 benefits of that. And you'll be, you'll be 427 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,400 stronger because your body will heal itself. 428 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,400 It will, you know, react and grow stronger from that, that 429 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,040 challenging stimulus that you gave it and grow stronger so 430 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,520 that you're better able to then run 26 miles when you get to 431 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,640 your second marathon. And even if you're going to be 432 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,080 doing that at a faster pace, and maybe that's your your goal race 433 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,120 from a performance perspective and you're trying to PR the fact 434 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,480 that you've done 26 miles in training. 435 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,120 Yeah, like it's going to, it's going to feel easier on your 436 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:57,400 body. Hopefully it's going to feel 437 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,040 mentally easier too. At least I know for me, like the 438 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,000 marathon has always felt like really long event. 439 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,800 And then if you're only doing like 1820, even 22 miles in 440 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,080 training, sometimes that leap up to 26 still just like, man, 441 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,440 that's going to be a long day. So I think there's a lot of 442 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,840 value in potentially running a marathon as a training tool. 443 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,800 And you know, buddy, I think you were hinting at this a little 444 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,080 bit earlier. The marathon is not an event 445 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,040 that we really get to practice much. 446 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,480 And that's because it is so hard on the body. 447 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,080 So, you know, you kind of have one day usually to have a peak 448 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,600 performance and do your best. Hopefully it goes well, but 449 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,720 sometimes it it, it doesn't. And often if it doesn't, you 450 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,880 can't really just like bounce back and run another marathon, 451 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,120 you know, a month or two later. Sometimes people do and, and 452 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,880 maybe this podcast will give, you know, you listeners the some 453 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,640 of the tips on how to do that. And sometimes it goes well. 454 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,080 It doesn't always though. Not everyone recovers from a 455 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,960 marathon super quick. I think largely this might have 456 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,800 to do with your own Physiology as an individual, just speaking 457 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,520 from my experience. But racing 2 marathons does kind 458 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,960 of give you that option to practice, especially if you 459 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,760 prioritize the second one and and treat the first one as more 460 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,200 casual. And so hopefully you could, if 461 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,120 you took that approach, you know, learn from the first 462 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,440 marathon and and improve on it and then maybe a month or two 463 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,720 later, come back and run an even better race for your second 464 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:26,880 marathon. I like that. 465 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,680 I like that, that it's a that's a great answer. 466 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,320 And yeah, I mean, you even see elites dropping out because 467 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,680 obviously they get paid to be at the race. 468 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,360 And if the race doesn't go their way, the key is for them to be 469 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,040 able to recover as fast as possible to just drop out in 470 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,960 DNF. Whereas us amateur leisure 471 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,920 runners, I want to call us, we want to get the medal right. 472 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,720 We want to get the star from, from whatever race we're 473 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,360 participating in. We want to finish it. 474 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,560 So we push ourselves through when the smart thing maybe would 475 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,880 be to drop out and then put all your focus on the next race. 476 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,840 But with all that said, what is your opinion on nutrition and 477 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,520 recovering? And also taking into 478 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,880 consideration if you're traveling to Berlin or God 479 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,320 forbid Sydney, which is a 15 hour flight from just Los 480 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,480 Angeles, how do you take into account jet lag? 481 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,280 What's the best way to recover via nutrition and obviously 482 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,120 getting the rest that you need? Yeah, so, so I'm a big proponent 483 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,800 of carbohydrate loading before a marathon. 484 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,280 I think that that's really, really valuable. 485 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,880 And a lot of people overlook that. 486 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,720 It's actually something that I didn't really pay much attention 487 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,160 to for like my first 5 or 6 marathons. 488 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,840 And then once I personally started doing it and kind of 489 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,840 realizing how valuable it was, I, I really started recommending 490 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,400 it to my athletes too. You know when you when you empty 491 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,640 out your fuel tanks, your body is on empty. 492 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,880 It's not going to be able to run well, perform well or or 493 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,240 recover. So in the days leading up to 494 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,720 your marathon, you want to make sure that your fuel tanks are, 495 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,800 as you know, stocked as they can be. 496 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,120 When you run a marathon and finish the marathon, you're 497 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:11,200 almost certainly going to be on empty, going to be depleted both 498 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,760 from kind of your carbohydrate stores as well as dehydrated. 499 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,720 I always recommend drinking from every single aid station. 500 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,880 Taking water. You might only get a sip or two, 501 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,400 but getting a little bit every mile or so is going to be is 502 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,160 going to be helpful. Also taking a lot of gels during 503 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,400 the race. Most people don't take a lot of 504 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,840 gels though. I think the trend is people are 505 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,560 starting to take more. But most folks, like I say, like 506 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,120 every ideally, like every every 30 minutes, like 25 to 30 507 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:43,960 minutes even, you know, you might take like that, that I 508 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,560 mean, that could be a lot of gels, like 6 to 10 gels, 509 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,040 depending on how fast you are. But that's a lot. 510 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,920 And you know, I think back in the day, people used to maybe 511 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,320 only take one every like 45 minutes to an hour. 512 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,280 But I really try to push people to, to take them more often, 513 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,760 like at least every half an hour. 514 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,160 Even if you do all that, drink the water, carb load, take the 515 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,760 gels mid race, you're still going to finish the marathon 516 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,600 like totally empty. If you pushed yourself to your 517 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,240 limit, you're going to be dehydrated, your body's going to 518 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,920 be ravenous, you're probably going to be pretty banged up. 519 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,000 So after the race, you know, like, especially if you're going 520 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,880 to be doubling, prioritizing recovery is key. 521 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:25,560 Rehydrating ASAP, of course, with with, you know, 522 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,000 electrolytes and water. You know, it's really common 523 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,920 after a marathon, like you might not have to pee for like hours 524 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,320 because you're so dehydrated. Like that's yeah. 525 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,360 Like your body is just yeah, you probably have lost weight. 526 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,560 Like the your body goes through a lot goes through a marathon. 527 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,800 Eating, of course, eat whatever you want after a marathon, 528 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,560 whatever, whatever makes you feel good. 529 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,680 Don't like, I would encourage you not to, not to limit 530 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:52,560 yourself. Enjoy it. 531 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,920 Take what you eat what you want. Eat what makes you happy. 532 00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:00,120 After a marathon, your body is craving it almost certainly, and 533 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,960 you know, in, in the day, day after a couple days after like 534 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,240 trying to get back onto a, you know, your normal healthy diet. 535 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,840 Carbs are the main fuel source for us runners. 536 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,320 So making sure you're eating lots of carbs to replenish your 537 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,160 muscles. You know, after a a hard thing 538 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,040 like a marathon, you know, your muscles are probably broken, 539 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,080 your your immune system is weakened. 540 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,760 It's common for people to get sick after marathons because 541 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,320 it's been such a shock to their body and their immune system is 542 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,600 weak. So just, you know, being 543 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,760 conscientious of what you do to try to stay healthy and that 544 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,520 week or two after, you know, normally I, I'm not like a big 545 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,320 like, oh, eat tons of protein person. 546 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,200 But you know, after a bit hard workout or marathon, protein 547 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,400 would probably be good help help restore your muscles. 548 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,040 You know, if it was me, I'd be putting on my calves Sweeves. 549 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,760 I'd probably doing it like an ice bath or cold shower back in 550 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,120 the hotel to, to speed up recovery. 551 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,960 You know, with I would try to stay moving. 552 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,760 Like if it's a long flight, you know, I, I can't sit still on a 553 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,760 plane for a super long time, but I would be getting up, walking 554 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,560 around, going to the bathroom more than I need to just to move 555 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,720 anyway. But that's probably extra good 556 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,160 advice if you just run a marathon, like I mentioned 557 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,200 earlier, you don't want to run for I would say like a week or 558 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,760 more after a marathon, unless you're doing something crazy 559 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,000 like Boston, London double where they're only a week apart. 560 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,560 But give your body time to rest from the impact. 561 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,360 I, I'm a big fan of wearing like recovery sandals. 562 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,680 I think a lot of people know about those now, like the Super 563 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,480 cushy sandals. I, I, I've had the Ufu's brand 564 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,160 for a long time, but they just feel amazing. 565 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,800 So I always bring those and wear those like after a race or 566 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,920 actually I wear them. I'm wearing them right now 567 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,000 pretty much whenever I'm out running, I'm wearing those and I 568 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,520 just think they're super comfortable and and reduce 569 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,320 impact on my body a lot. I mean, there's a lot of little 570 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,440 tips, but prioritizing recovery is key. 571 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,160 You mentioned the jet lag thing and I'm sorry, I don't realize 572 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,200 I'm kind of rambling on this because it's just a collection 573 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,880 of random recovery tips. But with jet lag, I mean, after 574 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,880 the race, I guess, who really cares? 575 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,120 But before the race, I don't have a lot of experience with 576 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,000 international travel, but what I generally recommend to my 577 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,920 athletes based on what I've heard works. 578 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,840 And buddy, you're probably more knowledgeable about this than 579 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,040 me, but I've heard people say like whenever you land in your 580 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,920 new time zone, you just kind of want to like go with the current 581 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,400 time, right? So like, if you land and it's 582 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,360 night, do night time things. If you land and stay, do daytime 583 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,560 things and just try to like get on schedule. 584 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,440 Is that what you usually do, Lenny? 585 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,360 Yeah, 100%. I mean, I even started bleeding 586 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,760 up the day a couple days beforehand that I start thinking 587 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,920 what time is it in that time zone would would Sydney 588 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,680 particularly? It was you basically lost the 589 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,680 whole day. You leave LA at almost midnight 590 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,400 and then you get there at 7:00 AM and that's 15 hours. 591 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,120 So that's really, really tricky. So I'm thinking, OK, Sydney's 592 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,120 going to be 7:00 AM. What would I be doing the seven 593 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,560 hours before that? I would be sleeping. 594 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,640 So I'm going to try to stay awake the 1st 7 hours of the 595 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,120 flight and then sleep the 2nd 7 hours. 596 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,600 So that way it kind of mimics getting into that rhythm 597 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:21,920 already. And then I'm going to try 598 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,160 whatever I can to stay awake until night time arrives. 599 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,920 Yeah, You know, I love it when people have the ability to get 600 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,440 to these destinations like a few days early. 601 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,560 Yeah, your, your body time to adjust your, you know, kind of 602 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,760 headspace to adjust to the new culture perhaps, or the 603 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,880 environment. You know, sometimes people just 604 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,600 fly in like the day before and and do the race. 605 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,680 But, you know, if you can make it more of a vacation and, you 606 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,400 know, stay, stay a few days before, a few days after, I 607 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,040 think that's really helpful. And, you know, it's a fun way to 608 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,120 see these these amazing cities. Yeah, yeah. 609 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,880 And in the end, we're all doing it for fun. 610 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,840 Chris, you're running out of time, but thank you so much for 611 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,120 this. It was really helpful. 612 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,640 And hopefully we can have our listeners that are running two 613 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,760 races implement that into their own training so that way 614 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,800 everyone can can succeed. Yeah, it's thanks for having me 615 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,720 on. It's it's a common thing that 616 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,000 people do. So like, you know, again, I, I 617 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,560 wouldn't necessarily recommend you try to do this. 618 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,520 Like I wouldn't just sign up for two races, but it happens. 619 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,920 And you know, I've, I've the folks I've helped, like we've 620 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,560 made it work and they've had fun and they've enjoyed the process 621 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,520 and you never know how it's going to go. 622 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,800 It's very personalized. And there's no guarantee they're 623 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,520 going to both go super well, but often they do. 624 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,400 So yeah, it's a fun challenge too, especially if you've been 625 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,000 running for a while. Maybe it's a new thing to take 626 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,600 on. Like hey doing 2 relatively 627 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,640 short time frame. And there is no substitute in, 628 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,840 just like you just said, you know, it's a personalized 629 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,680 journey. So if somebody wants help, 630 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,040 guidance with that, how can they best reach you if they're 631 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,480 interested in what you have to say or in your coaching? 632 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,440 Yeah, thanks. So you can find me on my 633 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,040 website, nightandruns.com or connect with me through 634 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,840 Instagram at night and runs. And my wife and I primarily, we 635 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,800 work with athletes, you know, in their 30s through 60s who are 636 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,920 training for races like these World Marathon Majors, work 637 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,600 really closely with our athletes to develop personalized 638 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,160 approach, especially folks who have a performance mindset. 639 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,120 And yeah, we do the one-on-one coaching. 640 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,160 We also have training plans that are available for download, 641 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,560 which my athletes who kind of prefer that approach, they've 642 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,160 really enjoyed that too. And have a free book. 643 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,560 You can download my book if you want. 644 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,320 It's all about marathon training, and I'll get you on my 645 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,120 newsletter where I send weekly. Right now I'm doing Q and as 646 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,320 with with my readers, so you can send in questions and I'm 647 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,160 emailing back out my response once a week, which has been kind 648 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,720 of fun. And yeah, you can find all that 649 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,240 on my website, nightruns.com. Perfect. 650 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,360 And we will link that. Chris, thank you so much. 651 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:06,920 Thanks lady, it's good to catch up. 652 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,000 Thank you, Chris, so much for speaking with me in regards to 653 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,600 doing more than one marathon in one season. 654 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,000 And hopefully you, listener, walk away with something, some 655 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,679 kind of overview, a decision on which one is your A, A raise, B 656 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,880 raise. And then you can most 657 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,000 importantly, without injury, conquer both quests. 658 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,000 If you're running any of the majors, congratulations. 659 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,800 They're super hard to get into. And of course, we don't want you 660 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,400 to miss out on those just because you're already running 661 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,520 three others in a month. You could do a marathon of 662 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,199 marathons. I did that one year, Ryan. 663 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,960 I ran 12 marathons in one year. All of them were untrained. 664 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,120 I just picked random California marathons and just wanted to hit 665 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,920 that number. I have no idea what the 666 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,840 finishing times for all of them were. 667 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,240 It didn't matter. It was just completing the race 668 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:00,120 and getting away from those books again. 669 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,600 As long as you're not hurting yourself. 670 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,200 As long as you're not hurting yourself. 671 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,960 Yes, play it safe. So stay tuned for next week. 672 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,280 I'm not sure what episode we're going to have on. 673 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,960 Hopefully it'll be something fun. 674 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,080 So with that. Have a great week of running. 675 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,480 Thanks for tuning in. For more information, go to 676 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:21,200 www.marathonrunningpodcast.com or check us out on all channels.