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You're listening to episode 303 
of the Marathon Running Podcast.

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In this episode, we're going to 
talk about a study that reveals 

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why strength training prevents 
late race collapse. 

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Welcome to the Marathon Running 
Podcast by Marathon Journal. 

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Join us every week for the 
insights and inspiration you 

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need to get from the starting 
line to the finish line and 

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beyond. 
Hey runners, and welcome to 

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episode 303. 
My name is Letty. 

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My. 
Name is Ryan and we are here pre

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recording the last of three 
episodes on studies that we've 

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been talking about that bring 
something new to the running 

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scene. 
So I think it's always 

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interesting to kind of stay up 
to date with the research. 

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I think we do a disservice when 
we don't do that. 

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It's kind of like, you know, for
you in medicine, for me in law, 

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If we don't research what the 
latest case law is, then we're 

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not really doing good for the 
community. 

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So for that reason, we thought 
it would be a great idea to talk

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about some studies when it comes
to running and science. 

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Yeah, the beauty is getting 
different opinions from people 

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that are involved in it and 
doing the research or really 

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closely aware of the new 
research that's happening, 

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because that's going to at least
give you the best information I 

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think you can get. 
Yes, and for this one, just like

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the previous two episodes, we're
sitting down with Arch 

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Tiruchavan, who is a performance
quote at Performance Physique in

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the UK and a specialist and 
elite movement. 

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And so he's always, you know, 
he's got his finger on the 

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pulse. 
And he was actually the one that

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reached out to me and suggested 
talking about a few of these 

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studies. 
And it was really cool to sit 

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down with him and hear what the 
latest science is so that way we

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can all be up to date with 
everything. 

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So. 
You want to get into it. 

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Sure. 
So without any further ado, I'm 

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now going to share my 
conversation with Art. 

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All right, so I'm back on with 
Arch T Rochelle One. 

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Thank you so much for joining me
again for our third session. 

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Leti 3 times. 
Thank you ever so much. 3 * A 

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charm And now on to everybody's 
favorite topic, right? 

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Because we're going to talk 
about Sting's performance in 

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later races due to working out. 
And with that, well, I guess 

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before that, let's introduce you
again for our audience if 

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there's somebody who hasn't 
listened to your intro yet. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
My name is Arj Tirichelfen. 

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I am a performance coach at 
Performance Physique and for the

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last 20 years I've been working 
in nutrition coaching and I've 

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written a couple of university 
degrees around sports science 

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and we work with everyone from 
novices right through to Team 

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GB, so Olympic level athletes. 
And the the idea is that we try 

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to give everyone the elite level
solution. 

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We don't think anything should 
be gatekeeps or anything like 

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that. 
We believe that everyone has the

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opportunity to train like a 
professional athlete. 

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Absolutely. 
And then your training, is that 

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in person, is that online or how
does that work? 

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Yeah. 
So we we have both in person and

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online, it's a fairly even split
between the two. 

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We have a training base here in 
the UK which we have academies 

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set up and we have more 
recreational style groups as 

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well as more kind of sub elite 
level groups. 

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And then a lot of our online 
stuff is for individuals around 

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the world, but mainly runners 
who are looking to maximize 

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their performance, whether it's 
in the 100 meters right through 

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to ultra. 
So we really span quite a lot of

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the the disciplines. 
We try to emphasize that the 

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reason we can do this is because
it's understanding Physiology. 

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It's the science which underpins
everything. 

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I love it, and that's why I love
having you on because I like 

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having this scientific 
background. 

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And I guess with that, we're 
going to hop into this study 

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you're going to tell us about. 
It's a newer study. 

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Let's talk about the name of the
study, where it was conducted 

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and all that fun stuff. 
Awesome. 

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Yeah. 
So study three, like the the 

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past two studies that we've been
discussing, these are three key 

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pieces of research that have 
been conducted in the last six 

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months, all to do with running 
and things that perhaps are 

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adding something valuable to our
understanding of training. 

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And you said it yourself, this 
is about strength training and 

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the importance that it has 
within our running knowledge. 

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And this study adds something 
key to it as well. 

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So the title is the strength 
training improves running 

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economy, durability and fatigue,
high intensity performance in 

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well trained male runners. 
And again, it was a randomized 

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control trial like the previous 
one, but it is an individual 

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study. 
This one was conducted in the 

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UK. 
This one was actually conducted 

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at Loughborough University where
I studied. 

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Loughborough University is 
considered the pinnacle of of 

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sports in Britain as a handful 
of really top tier research 

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based universities in in sport 
and Luff being one of those. 

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And that's where Team GB are 
based. 

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And the author is Zanini ETAL. 
So there's a few authors on this

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one. 
I think their supervisor was 

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Richard Blairgrove, which you'll
see actually pops up if people 

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are interested in research. 
You'll see that name crops up 

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quite a lot actually under this 
field. 

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But they were conducting a small
study on the importance of 

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strength training, and I think 
you've probably briefed your 

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listeners on strength training 
before, Letty. 

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Absolutely. 
We talk about the importance of 

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it all the time, especially as 
we go up in age. 

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Yes, yes, absolutely. 
Well, this this one was very, 

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very specific in its research 
area. 

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This is the smallest study of 
the three that we've looked at. 

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So 28 well trained male runners 
and they defined well trained 

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really nicely for us as well. 
We're talking sub 39 minute 10K 

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runners and those with AVO 2 Max
of roughly 59. 

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So these individuals were very 
capable. 

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These were those who weren't 
necessarily going to achieve 

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quite easy gains, easy 
performance improvements, what 

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they were looking to do. 
In the title, it said about 

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durability there and running 
economy. 

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So we know that strength 
training reduces our chance of 

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injury. 
We know that strength training 

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also improves running economy. 
What we haven't seen too much 

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research conducted into was the 
impact of strength training on 

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later races to what happens to 
the body after a period of time 

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and how strength training also 
might impact running economy 

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when you were fatigued. 
It's a really interesting study.

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This is the one which maybe 
pulls away, however, from the 

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marathon. 
So this study was all around the

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90 minute mark. 
So for a lot of people this will

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be half marathon and we can 
probably extrapolate that 

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understanding through to a 
marathon though if we if we're 

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really honest. 
So they are there two groups 

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randomized. 
One group just did an endurance 

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training only program supplied 
to them, and the other group did

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that exact same endurance 
training program but also 

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combined it with heavy strength 
training, plyometric training 

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conducted twice a week for 10 
weeks. 

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So effectively one group doing 
what the majority of runners do 

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and just do lots of running, and
then one group being the coach's

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dream and ticking off everything
in their, their their calendar 

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for that training week. 
As well as the pinnacle for me 

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of strength training, which is 
plyometric work. 

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If anyone's unsure of what 
plyometrics are, plyometrics are

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anything which encourage 
bounciness. 

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So the most basic plyometric 
activity is a skip and then that

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ramps up in intensity when we go
to drop jumps and bounds and 

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maybe some high, high box jumps 
or some hopping or even 

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combining all of that and 
hopping single leg up onto boxes

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and down and all these kind of 
things. 

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So very demanding exercises, but
plyometrics unknown to improve 

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your injury resilience. 
They're a key part of becoming 

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an athlete, and they're also a 
key part of injury rehab, which 

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most people avoid because it's 
scary. 

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So with that kind of in the bag 
already, what they were looking 

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to do was measure running 
economy under fatigue. 

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So after a after and during a 90
minute time trial time to 

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exhaustion after a prolonged 
run. 

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And then they also looked at 
high intensity performances when

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they were already tired. 
The, the way they conducted the 

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test. 
They're all very, very standard 

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tests. 
And that's probably not the the 

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most interesting thing here. 
Really. 

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The interesting thing is what 
they found from these studies in

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these two groups. 
No need to talk about the the 

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little bit in the middle. 
This is exciting. 

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Strength training didn't just 
improve economy if it actually 

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preserved the running economy 
when individuals were fatigued. 

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It's almost like strength 
training held the runners up 

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despite them already meeting 
fatigue, already wanting to lose

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good form. 
Strength training was there to 

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say no, I'm going to help you. 
So during the 90 minute test, 

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running economy actually 
improved by 2%. 

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It was just over 2% in the group
that did the strength training 

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and plyometrics. 
Whereas in the group which did 

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what most of us do and just did 
the running, they actually 

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worsened by just under a percent
in terms of their running 

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economy. 
So sounds like small margins, 

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but anything which prevents us 
from declining is great. 

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Anything which gives us an 
actual improvement is 

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substantial. 
There is a interesting study 

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which I'll add on to this as 
well. 

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You need to remind me though, 
Letty, because I'll forget. 

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I'll go up on a tangent. 
The the next aspect was time to 

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exhaustion. 
And this was a huge, huge 

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difference. 
So time to exhaustion at 95% VO 

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2 Max, this increased by 35% in 
the group that did strength 

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training and plyometrics as 
well. 

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Whereas in the group that just 
did endurance training, they saw

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an 8% decline in performance 
when they were obviously going 

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through exhaustion. 
Wow, that's a huge number. 

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That's a huge number. 
Yeah. 

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You know, I, I would never have 
ever guessed to see something 

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like that in a, in a study. 
You know, we yeah, that's big. 

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Expect the things around 2%, 
three percent, that kind of 

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thing being a, a great result, 
35%. 

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You know, the investigators must
have been overjoyed seeing that 

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that figure come through. 
Yeah, and the control group that

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didn't get to do Planet X was 
trying was great. 

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Pissed. 
Yes, exactly. 

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We could have been in this 
group, yeah. 

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It's so true. 
I didn't even think of that 

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actually. 
So this, this actually told us 

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something really nice here. 
So strength, strength training 

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didn't just help fresh economy. 
And this is what we've seen in 

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studies before where someone's 
strength trained and then they 

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measure economy when they're 
feeling great. 

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They basically found that it 
made run as more economical and 

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more capable at the end of a 
prolonged run, which is where we

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start moving towards the 
relevance towards marathons and 

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half marathons. 
Definitely. 

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And it it, it extends that prior
work which showed, you know, 

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strength training improves 
running economy and time trial 

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performance without necessarily 
changing VO2 Max. 

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Now, the reason I was, I was 
saying you need to remind me 

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it's OK, I've done it myself, is
that there was a study which 

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looked at drop jump only as a 
plyometric activity to improving

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running performance. 
So I, I haven't looked at the 

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study in quite some time as I've
talked about it last year. 

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But there's a study which 
basically got a group of runners

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just to do drop jumps, which 
means stand on the box and jump 

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down to the floor. 
And they just incorporated that 

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as their training program and 
that improved running economy 

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without necessarily changing VO2
Max and had the greatest impact 

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on 10K performance. 
So I stood there in front of, I 

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think it was about 300 people 
who come to to listen to my talk

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and said, if I give you one 
thing and you could walk away 

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and it's not to do with running 
and it'll improve your running 

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performance, would you take it? 
Obviously, everyone's hand goes 

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up and yeah, I want to get 
better. 

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And it's just to do a drop jump.
I'd also say I reckon less than 

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10% of people actually did it. 
Ohio, are we talking also? 

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I think it's a 40 centimetre 
drop jump. 

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OK. 
So. 

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Like looking around in a room 
for chairs. 

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I'm trying to think in inches 
for so that's about 1516 inches 

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something like I'm guessing 
because 30 centimetres is 12 

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inches. 
So yeah, probably, probably 

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about 1516. 
So it's it's obviously 

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substantial and you have to 
build up to that maybe in 

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confidence, but what a crazy 
thing just implementing 1 

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plyometric activity change 
running performance without 

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actually changing VO2 Max and 
it's all. 

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Many times do you have to How 
many times do you have to jump 

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off this chair? 
Oh, I can't. 

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I can't recall that that that 
information from last year, but 

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it it would obviously be in a 
proper regimented training 

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program. 
So it'd probably be like 2 or 

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twice a week, three sets of 
maybe 4 to 6 repetitions over a 

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training program. 
But I'd have to revisit, revisit

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that literature to do something 
accurately on it. 

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But we're kind of seeing that a 
strength training isn't just 

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better for us injury wise, isn't
just better for our running form

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when we're fresh. 
We're now seeing strength 

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training is ground breaking for 
improving us when our body 

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starts to break down or we feel 
like we're breaking down maybe 

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in the last 10 kilometres of a 
marathon race. 

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So when you know, when most 
runners are fading, they're not 

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fading because they're unfit 
necessarily. 

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It's that they can't produce the
amount of force when they're 

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tired. 
And this is what strength 

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training is really doing. 
It's it's critical for 

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performance, basically. 
I love this. 

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This is super interesting and 
I'm wondering what your take is 

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on how does the control group of
these VO2 Max of 59 runners 

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running 10K in under 30 minutes?
How does that translate into 

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this applying to regular 
recreational runners? 

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I would say there would be 1 
limitation and that would be on 

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skill development. 
So the reason people avoid 

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plyometrics and heavy strength 
training, except for the fact 

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that everyone just loves running
so much, it's that we're a 

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little bit fearful of how to do 
it properly and safely. 

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You know, seeing someone perform
some of these movements, you 

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think I'm going to injure 
myself. 

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So if you took that out of the 
equation, then these novice 

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runners who are taking up 
running, they're only going to 

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benefit more than well trained 
individuals. 

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In order to get there though, 
they're going to have to develop

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that skill set without a doubt. 
And that means in an ideal 

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circumstance, at least watching 
videos, if not actually working 

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with someone privately to to 
develop that skill set because 

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it can be difficult for people. 
And I'm thinking, you know, 

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doing these also will help us 
runners stay more flexible and 

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able to run our ability to 
continue having a longer strike.

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Because if you look at runners 
that are, you know, on the 

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slower side, I don't know how to
say it without offending 

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anybody. 
But, you know, if you look at 

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runners, the higher in age, you 
see that they have a certain 

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gate where they kind of trot 
through that great gate without 

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any. 
How do I say that best? 

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You know what I mean, right. 
When you look at older people, 

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there's a lack of movement. 
It's almost like, yeah, there's 

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a lack of push up. 
There's a little bit of a 

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restriction, it seems, in this 
flexibility and movement. 

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I feel like this stride becomes 
a little bit shorter. 

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And we all have seen that gait. 
Yeah. 

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So there's there's two areas to 
kind of address with that. 

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There is mobility which is your 
your usual stretching, but it's 

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also how to utilize the muscle 
tissue at at full range of 

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motion. 
And that's what strength 

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training and plyometrics forces 
us to do. 

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Doesn't just utilize it in order
to be able to complete the 

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movement. 
You have to get that muscle to 

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contract across a long, long 
range. 

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So what you're witnessing is 
over about 32 years of age, we 

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start losing muscle mass, 
sarcopenia starts setting in. 

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And we can address this 
nutritionally and we can also 

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address this with our lifestyle,
our actual strength training. 

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And that's why it's so critical.
And we start to effectively miss

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the ability to toe off off the 
ground, push it behind us, and 

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that's that force bit. 
So 100% what you're saying, 

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embed this within your training 
as soon as possible. 

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You know, if you're 60, do it 
now rather than when you're 70. 

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If you're 70, do it now rather 
than waiting till you're 80. 

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You know, we, we can still do 
all of these things. 

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And we see these great 
testimonials on the Internet 

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about, you know, the 79 year old
lady who's dead lifting, you 

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00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,840
know, 70 kilos, 100 and 130 lbs 
or what 140 lbs. 

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These are great things and you 
can do them. 

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You need to start though. 
And for your runners or I guess,

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00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,880
and So what would be your advice
or what did you do in your 

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00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,720
coaching? 
Do you implement plyometric 

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00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,840
strength training, a combination
or what? 

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00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,120
What would you say to somebody 
who's not currently coached by 

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00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:49,040
you to start doing if they're 
kind of, you know, unsure about 

320
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,160
where to go? 
Brilliant question. 

321
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:59,200
Find someone to guide you, 
obviously me, but find find 

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00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,720
someone in all seriousness to 
guide you with that because it 

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00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,320
is a skill that you need to 
develop. 

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00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,240
Look at 2 short strength 
training sessions per week. 

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That's going to give you as much
stimulus as you need. 

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And within those strength 
training sessions, incorporate 

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some kind of plyometric activity
and at the start that should be 

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00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,320
skipping. 
There's nothing wrong with 

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00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,480
skipping. 
We use it with elite athletes 

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00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,160
every single week. 
We can still benefit from it as 

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00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:31,200
a as a complete novice to to 
sport within those training 

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sessions. 
As you develop your skill, then 

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00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,560
make sure that your training 
sessions aren't full of loads 

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00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,280
and loads of volume. 
We should just make sure our 

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00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:40,920
training sessions are full of 
intent. 

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00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,360
You want to move a weight, you 
want to perform an exercise, 

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00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,400
understanding you're trying to 
perform it explosively and get 

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00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,000
force moving effectively. 
You don't need to become a 

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00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,120
bodybuilder. 
And it's actually really hard to

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00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,120
put on serious muscle mass. 
It's very, very challenging. 

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00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,680
You're not going to be gaining 
weight as a runner unless you're

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00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,480
in a huge calorie surplus, and 
not many runners are. 

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00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,800
But do this twice a week, 12 
weeks. 

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00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,000
Choose maybe 4 exercises that 
you're going to do this in and 

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00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,280
you will instantly see results 
after that first training block,

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00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,440
I promise you. 
I love it Art. 

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00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,360
Thank you so much. 
And if anyone does want to be 

348
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,280
guided by you through this or 
reach you, check out your 

349
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,120
website and see what you're all 
about. 

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00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:31,240
How can they best reach you? 
Absolutely, on Instagram it's at

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00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,000
Performance under score Physique
or they can head to my website 

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00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,840
performancephysique.co.uk. 
If you Google me or my name, my 

353
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,880
:) will always pop up. 
Very awesome. 

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00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,760
And we will link the study as 
well as Arch's information down 

355
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,000
in our show notes. 
Arch, thank you so much. 

356
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:49,680
Thanks very much for having me 
Letty. 

357
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,680
Thank you, Arch, for speaking 
with me again. 

358
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,880
This is the last one of the 
three studies that we talked 

359
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,000
about, and I so appreciated your
time. 

360
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,960
And I hope that, you know, we'll
do these more in the future as 

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00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,480
more research comes out because 
it was really, you know, pure 

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00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,200
enjoyment talking about 
everything that is science and 

363
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,680
nerdy and fact based because I 
like doing that stuff. 

364
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,760
I like it too. 
That's my favorite is to like 

365
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,320
kind of get into the research 
because people test this stuff 

366
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,240
and they kind of figure out what
works and what doesn't and it 

367
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,800
gives you at least a lot of 
information. 

368
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,680
Exactly. 
So I feel like this episode was 

369
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,120
also very helpful for those of 
us that do not do strength 

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00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,080
training. 
And you know, it helps us learn 

371
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,600
that a combination of strength 
training and plyometrics is 

372
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,520
really where it's at. 
And hopefully we can implement 

373
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,960
that into our running routine. 
I agree. 

374
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,200
I think hopefully even if you 
just take a little bit from, 

375
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,640
from some of the stuff that it 
can kind of at least allow you 

376
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,480
to tweak what you're normally 
doing and, and allow for some 

377
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,160
improvement or, or to get 
something a little bit more 

378
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,960
efficient maybe. 
Yes, absolutely. 

379
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,240
So what was this about strength 
training in Kenya? 

380
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,880
Yeah, so for this trip to Kenya,
which now I'm on my way back and

381
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,640
you'll have me live again next 
week. 

382
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,240
The coach at the camp, we were 
saying that he was going to 

383
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,400
teach us about strength training
too. 

384
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,640
So obviously we're pre recording
this. 

385
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,640
I don't know if you did, but I'm
going there with a very open 

386
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,160
mind because I know that I 
finally need to do something 

387
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080
about strength training. 
And I like Arches idea or I 

388
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,920
guess the studies idea of also 
implementing playmetics, because

389
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,640
I feel like that's a better 
combination than just doing 

390
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,040
strength and obviously it's also
going to be useful. 

391
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,520
Yeah, definitely. 
I think pyrometrics are a good 

392
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,800
way to kind of train or focus on
that elasticity of all your 

393
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,120
tendons and everything. 
And they they used a lot in 

394
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,280
jumping and a lot of other 
athletics. 

395
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,680
And I think that why not use 
them in running too. 

396
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,400
Fatal combination. 
Strengthen plyometrics, right? 

397
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,320
And get those chairs ready 
because you know, you know, I'm 

398
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,080
going to start hopping off of 
them. 

399
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,520
Just don't injure yourself. 
Yeah, that's always a silver 

400
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,240
lining, right? 
It's. 

401
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,960
Always a potential pitfall of 
doing any exercise program. 

402
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,680
Ply metrics are pretty high 
intensity too, so a high 

403
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,720
intensity can sometimes lead to 
injury if you're not careful. 

404
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,000
So be careful with all of that. 
Thank you so much for tuning in.

405
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,640
I hope you enjoyed that. 
Stay tuned for next week. 

406
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,200
Next week we're going to 
hopefully be doing a recap of 

407
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,600
our trip, my trip to Kenya with 
a group and you guys can hear 

408
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,640
all the pros and cons. 
And then if you want to consider

409
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,600
going next year, you can do 
that. 

410
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:26,560
Or if you just up for a fun 
episode on a recap then that'll 

411
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:27,920
be it for you. 
So with that. 

412
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:32,640
Have a great week of running. 
You've been listening to the 

413
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,760
Marathon Running Podcast by 
Marathon Journal. 

414
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,560
If you've enjoyed the show, 
check us out at 

415
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,440
marathonjournal.com or follow us
on social media. 

416
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,560
Happy training.