1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 You're listening to episode 286 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,640 In this episode, we're going to bust a myth of running being bad 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,480 for your niece. This is the Marathon Running 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,600 Podcast with Letty and Ryan. Join us for weekly content on 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,480 all things running and let us take you from the starting line 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:24,280 to the finish line and beyond. Hey runners, and welcome to 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,920 episode 236. My name is Letty. 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,200 My name is Ryan. And we are back with another 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,600 episode, and this time we're going to talk about something 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,200 fun. So let's talk about this topic 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,840 and let's talk about why we talk about it. 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,400 I actually thought about bringing up the topic of running 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,360 destroys your knees because we've never really just talked 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,960 about that subject. And it's something that always 15 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,840 comes up at Thanksgiving, right? You're sitting next to the uncle 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,680 that doesn't run, or you're at the medical society and you're 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,200 sitting next to the physician's husband who has no medical 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,840 knowledge, who suddenly times out, oh, running is so bad for 19 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:57,400 your knees. A. 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,600 Little personal experience there. 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,200 I'm so glad that you are on this podcast with me because my 22 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,920 husband, Ryan, he is a musculoskeletal radiologist, 23 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,560 which means he What does that mean, Ryan? 24 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,120 What do you do? What do you look at all day? 25 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,680 Oh. OK, so radiologist means I look 26 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,440 at imaging and musculoskeletal is. 27 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,720 My imaging has to do with the bones and joints mostly. 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,960 And I've been fortunate enough to read mostly Mris, which are 29 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,280 probably the most advanced imaging we have of the joints. 30 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,760 For years and years. And I've got to work with a lot 31 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,360 of really cool people. I read all the imaging for the 32 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,200 Olympic Training Center in Colorado for a while, and more 33 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,120 recently I've read a lot of the imaging for a majority of the 34 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,000 professional baseball teams that come down here and for spring 35 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,400 training. Which is super super cool and 36 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,200 interesting. We get to read, we read 37 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,680 everything. You know, there's always lots of 38 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,160 old people here play pickleball, so they get a lot of pickleball 39 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,000 injuries too. But by far the most fun is is 40 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,320 reading the high level athletes stuff. 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,160 It's just cool because 1 you typically. 42 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,800 Get more. Detailed history of what's going 43 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,800 on. You get more collaboration with 44 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,320 the orthopedic. Surgeons and physicians, you 45 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,000 talk. To them, a lot and most of the 46 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,880 people on high level athletes are relatively younger and so 47 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,720 when they have an injury, the stuff you see is usually 48 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,880 directly related to the injury and not like stuff that's 49 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,920 accumulated over time. I love it and we're very lucky 50 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,320 because of that to have you on. And I'm also very lucky to have 51 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,040 you in my house because you constantly check my Mris, X-rays 52 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,920 and mammograms, etcetera. And so we are all in good hands 53 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:39,120 to talk about this subject that we are now going to dive into. 54 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,680 And before we do, I'm going to tell you about the structure and 55 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,800 how we're going to go through all this information. 56 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,200 OK, We're going to start by talking about the origin of the 57 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,120 myth and this flawed analogy. Then we're going to hop into the 58 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,760 deep science and how joints actually respond. 59 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,520 Then we're going to talk about the direct effects of running. 60 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,240 Then we're going to talk about when running does cause 61 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,400 problems. Then we're going to talk about 62 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,880 modifying the load and what surfaces and shoes have to do 63 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,520 with your knees and knee pain. And then last but not least, 64 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,560 we're going to talk about a practical guide to happy knees. 65 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,640 And if you are still there at the end, we're going to give you 66 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:19,320 a code that will allow you to get free Mris from Ryan for the 67 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,200 next year. I don't know about the free 68 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,520 code, that could get a lot of extra work for me so. 69 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,120 That as part is a joke, but we hope that you stay with us. 70 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,760 But Ryan, before we hop into any of this stuff that I've so well 71 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:35,960 organized, I want to ask you about the types of knee problems 72 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,840 and knee pains that there are. So maybe talk a little bit. 73 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,000 What have you seen in your practice that happens? 74 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,440 Not necessarily related to running, obviously, but what 75 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,320 kind of problems do people have with their knees, just in 76 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,640 general? So yeah, that's actually I guess 77 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,000 more relevant to my daily practice in a sense. 78 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,560 But it's funny how all the. Joints of the body, you know, 79 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,040 they were developed over time. But. 80 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,560 They all have like different weak points and the certain weak 81 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,680 points seem to show up in the certain joints very, very 82 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,480 commonly. And a lot of other structures of 83 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,840 the joint just just don't end up having problems. 84 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,839 It's kind of like if you think about it as like a car and the 85 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,160 car gets a recall for something, it's like the body had made 86 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,680 something, but there are certain weaker parts in the body that 87 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,840 end up having issues or problems. 88 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,760 And so that's the same thing with the knee. 89 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,920 And then so the knee, the most common things typically are 90 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,160 going to be like the meniscus, very, very common for people to 91 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,240 tear a meniscus. Meniscus are like disc like 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,520 little cushions because you have a flat relatively flat. 93 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,240 Tibia or the lower leg? Bone plateau and you have a 94 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,400 rounded kind of distal femur bone. 95 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,320 There's different condyles is what they're called. 96 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,880 But. If you can think about trying to 97 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,160 mate A more rounded surface to a flat surface, it doesn't work so 98 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,880 well. If you put a meniscus in there, 99 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,240 a little triangle shaped disc, it helps support more of the 100 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,160 weight from the femur onto the tibia. 101 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,760 So you can kind of support that more rounded structure onto the 102 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,560 flatter structure and distribute the weight more evenly. 103 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,000 Unfortunately, if a meniscus tears, you have less support of 104 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,560 the weights. You get more focused, 105 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,040 concentrated weight on, you know, different parts of the 106 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,640 joint. And one thing I can say is for 107 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,800 the most part, if the meniscus goes away, people seem to get 108 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,960 cartilage loss really quickly or much quicker than they would 109 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,440 without the meniscus gone. That's the second thing I would 110 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,480 say commonly is just cartilage loss throughout the joint. 111 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,000 Then you have the ligaments, typically in the knee, the 112 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,920 important ligaments they get torn or most commonly are the 113 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,440 medial collateral ligaments. So the. 114 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,280 Inside of the knee, there's a ligament that goes up and down 115 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:50,560 to to kind of like tie the. Femur to the tibia and the 116 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,920 anterior cruciate ligament, which is a ligament in the 117 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,760 center of the knee. That one's pretty commonly. 118 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,440 Torn and maybe the lateral collateral ligament which is on 119 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,280 the outside of the. Knee and so those like. 120 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,160 Three are probably the most common. 121 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,960 See if the ligaments get torn, the menisci get torn, and the 122 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,320 cartilage gets lost. One more injury I could. 123 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,080 See maybe is is more. Common in runners is you get 124 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,680 stress. Fractures, probably. 125 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,960 You know, runners that run for long distances put a lot of 126 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,560 strain on IT. People that are starting out 127 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,440 trying to do marathons that maybe haven't done the. 128 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,160 Gradual work up to it. Is you can get actually more 129 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,560 most commonly in the tibial plateau or tibial area. 130 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,000 They can get stress fractures. OK, perfect. 131 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,720 I knew that was a good question because you you do this 132 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,000 everyday. So I just wanted to see what you 133 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,400 see, most commonly none. Of that has necessarily like 134 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,760 specific things for runners either, you know, a lot of 135 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,880 sports, any of it could happen. I guess the ligaments are 136 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,960 probably a little less likely unless you trip or fall or twist 137 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,120 it in some way. OK. 138 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,440 All right, so let's hop into the origin of this myth that running 139 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,400 is bad for any and why this is a flawed analogy for us outside of 140 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,880 the medical field. We do look at joints almost like 141 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,320 a static machine, like a car tire that wears out, when in 142 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,040 reality the human body is a living and dynamic system that 143 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,480 adapts to and grows to responses and stress, unlike unchanging 144 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,960 material, the tire. Yeah, and I think one of the 145 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,160 best examples of that is the bones itself, because your body 146 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,400 uses calcium for muscles and other parts of the body 147 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,360 throughout the. Body and it's. 148 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,440 Constantly using calcium from your bones, but also replacing 149 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,040 calcium in your bones. And it's very dynamic how it 150 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,400 goes. And you can see that if you 151 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,200 break a bone, how quickly the bones can heal, which is pretty 152 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:39,880 amazing. How? 153 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,040 They change afterwards. But the same thing applies to, I 154 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,760 think, joints in other parts of the body too. 155 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:46,400 Yeah. So let's hop into that a little 156 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,520 bit more deeply, Ryan. How do joints actually respond? 157 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,720 So from my understanding this is just. 158 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,120 From learning in the past. So do your own research or 159 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,400 letty's done some research so maybe she'll get some more 160 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,560 insight or maybe a little bit better information. 161 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,920 But from my understanding. And what I've learned is. 162 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:03,840 A lot of the cartilages. Not. 163 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,720 Have a lot of vascularity and the meniscus which is a. 164 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,080 Part of the knee joint that helps support the knee, a lot of 165 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,040 that doesn't. Have very good vascularity 166 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,600 meaning. It doesn't have a lot of really 167 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,240 good big blood vessels. To provide nutrients to it. 168 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,840 So they seem to get most of their nutrients from the joint 169 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,120 fluid, and the joint fluid is kind of just static. 170 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,240 In there and so I. Think some of the theories that 171 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,600 I've heard is when you're running and you're compressing 172 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,360 these. Cartilaginous. 173 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,679 And structures and you're actually like squeezing 174 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,880 nutrients in and out and allowing the nutrients to go 175 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,919 into it, which helps it a bit. As opposed to just being static. 176 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,880 And not using the joint at all. And so that's kind of like I 177 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,480 think. Some of the fundamentals that I 178 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,320 understood of how. It can help. 179 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,120 Repair and get strength. And stuff. 180 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,200 Yes, that's. Kind of what I read something 181 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,080 along the lines that the cartilage, so the joints are 182 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,880 composed by bones, cartilage and kinetic chain and the cartilage 183 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,880 part that you were just talking about was analogized kind of 184 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:10,320 like being a sponge and it works and relies with compression and 185 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:11,920 decompression. Yeah. 186 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,680 So that's my understanding. So the bones themselves 187 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:15,880 obviously provide the structure and the. 188 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,200 Support of everything, but they don't really have very good 189 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,200 cushioning. They don't have good cushioning, 190 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,920 but research shows that runners have a significantly higher bone 191 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,520 mineral density in key areas compared to non runners and and 192 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:36,480 I'm citing Hainonen ET al. Bone 2007, where it says that 193 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,280 the running impact is a stimulus that leads to stronger and 194 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,360 denser bones, and that's called Wolf's law. 195 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,360 Yeah, from my understanding too, it's interesting that we have 196 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,840 all these medications for osteoporosis and other stuff, 197 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,080 but exercise itself and stressing the bones is one of 198 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,600 the best things you can do for increasing bone mineral density, 199 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,640 which correlates with what you were saying too. 200 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,560 It's funny how you know that works that way is when the bone 201 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:03,120 actually feels a stressor it it strengthens itself. 202 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:07,360 And then the last part of the three of them, which is the 203 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,880 kinetic chain, maybe you can talk about that a little bit, 204 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,200 say what it means. I mean kinetic chain. 205 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,720 I'm assuming muscles and and tendons, probably mostly for 206 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,120 kinetic and that's basically just what helps move the joint. 207 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,920 So you need the muscles and tendons to move the joint. 208 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,080 You have the ligaments too, which are probably more static, 209 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,360 not kinetics, but ligaments support the joint. 210 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,800 Tendons and muscles help move the joint. 211 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,520 A lot of times when people get tendinopathy or get problems 212 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,240 with their tendons, then it's because of overuse is what it's 213 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,520 always saying like talked as, but it's more I think rather 214 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,960 than overuse, it's, it's using more than what they're capable 215 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,040 of holding and their dynamic organs as well. 216 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,680 So they're constantly strengthening to a stressor. 217 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,960 So that's what makes so difficult to get over injury. 218 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,440 Sometimes I feel like too, because if you go beyond the 219 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,240 point of the ligament or the tendon strength, you can start 220 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,600 tearing and causing issues and then. 221 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,200 The thought is to stop. And let it heal. 222 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:10,520 It's also not repairing and strengthening, so you have to 223 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,600 find this nice balance between allowing it to. 224 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,680 Heal, but also continuing strengthening. 225 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,320 Likewise before you. If you want to prevent getting 226 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,120 the injury in the. 1st place you have to find that line between 227 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,360 over stressing the tendon and tearing it and not doing enough 228 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,440 so it's not strengthening. So you got to have a nice 229 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,800 balance so you allow it to strengthen over time. 230 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,240 Get stronger. And then you'll have less chance 231 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,360 of injury. I think also one of the issues 232 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,840 is muscles can strengthen faster than tendons. 233 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,320 So if in some cases if you exercise. 234 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,480 Or work out hard. Your muscles can go beyond the 235 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,120 capacity of your tendons faster than the tendons can strengthen, 236 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,320 and then you can get problems, tears, other things. 237 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,440 Perfect. All right, so now that we know a 238 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,720 little bit about a little bit more about how the joints 239 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,920 actually work, let's talk about the direct effects of running. 240 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,640 I was doing some research and came up that we should be 241 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,120 talking about repetitive loading, managing peak force and 242 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,400 muscular shock absorption. So let's talk about the 243 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,160 repetitive loading, where the idea is that the positive 244 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:21,760 stimulus of using or repeatedly loading the knee tells the 245 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,240 cartilage and bone to build more resilient tissue. 246 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,080 Yeah, kind of like we discussed, you know, I think the body 247 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,720 adapts to its environment. So if the environment is 248 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,200 sitting. On a couch and not. 249 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,560 Needing to use it, then the body says, well, let's decrease the 250 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,360 thickness of these tendons and ligaments and strength. 251 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,120 But if you're constantly using it running around, then the body 252 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,120 says hey I need to make this stronger because it's being 253 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,560 used. So kind of like the same with 254 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:52,240 muscle atrophy. When you're not using muscles, 255 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,240 then you don't have them, whereas if you work out then you 256 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,720 build muscle. Yeah. 257 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,520 Muscle atrophy can happen really fast if it's not being used. 258 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,480 OK. The second point that we wanted 259 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,200 to talk about is managing the peak force and for this one I 260 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,480 found a quote or a citation that higher cadence and mid foot 261 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:15,000 strike reduces the peak vertical ground reaction force and hence 262 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,520 healthy running manages the force through efficient 263 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,800 mechanics. Yeah, mechanically, you know. 264 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,280 Force when you're running is is significant. 265 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,520 If you take smaller strides, you're decreasing the height, 266 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,560 that which you're falling down and the force which you're 267 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,040 putting in through your leg and stuff. 268 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:34,800 If you take longer strides, you have to be in the air longer, 269 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,960 which means you have to be higher, which means you're going 270 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,600 to have significantly more force. 271 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,480 It'd be interesting to see a graph of like how much force, 272 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,200 but I would imagine like the longer stride, the higher you go 273 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,440 up, this force goes significantly higher. 274 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,720 You want to manage the peak force because the peak force is 275 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,040 what's going to cause the injury. 276 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,360 You know, you're going to, if you could, if you could, for 277 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:58,120 instance, apply a force at a certain level for a long time 278 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,520 that's just underneath the level that requires or that causes a 279 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,720 tear or causes injury, you're going to do the maximum 280 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,920 strengthening. But if you of, of those 281 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,440 structures, but if you exceed that force, then you're going to 282 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,280 be causing injury. And so managing peak force in my 283 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,080 understanding would be manage that peak amount because that's 284 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,040 what's going to cause you to get an injury. 285 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,880 And that's something really interesting because I've had 286 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,920 podcasts with experts or coaches on talking about running form, 287 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,760 and the general consensus was that the more you run, the 288 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,560 longer you run, the more your body will find its own ideal 289 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,400 form. So you're not necessarily trying 290 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,760 to force your gait into some running form. 291 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,920 But obviously you, I guess I take it, are more likely to get 292 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,840 injured if you are a heel striker or if you have a weird 293 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,920 way of running. But not necessarily, I don't 294 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,640 think. I think the difficulty with that 295 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,320 is that everybody's different and so like anatomically people 296 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,800 are just made slightly differently. 297 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,720 I mean obviously if. You take it to an. 298 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,320 Extreme and you run. You know, like someone that's 299 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,200 being chased by a crazy clown. Like Phoebe from Friends. 300 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,160 Yeah, I think it was. Kind of weird, wasn't it? 301 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,240 Yeah, it was really funny. But yeah, I mean, if you're 302 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,320 running in a really awkward way, yes, you might be increasing 303 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,840 your chance of injury. I think to say like that 304 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,720 everyone should be running a certain style is also wrong too. 305 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,320 Or exact the amount because everyone's anatomically slightly 306 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,640 differently. I think in general and they show 307 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,640 this of a throwing and athletes and things like that. 308 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,520 Like if you throw when you're little and you just kind of 309 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,720 continually throw, you kind of generally naturally develop or 310 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,280 most people naturally develop a good throwing motion. 311 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,960 And the same can probably be said for running. 312 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,480 I mean, I think it's good to maybe do tweaks and make sure 313 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,960 that you're on the right track. But I think if you start off 314 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,800 slow being say a new runner, then your body will probably 315 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:02,880 find a natural way that's most forgiving and then you can just 316 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,080 tweak it a little bit. I wouldn't try to change like 317 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,320 drastically because you might end up making it worse. 318 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,720 All right, so last but not least, let's go a little bit 319 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,080 deeper on what we also already talked about, which is the 320 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,600 muscle shock absorption. You know, the fact that you, 321 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,520 through running, get strong glutes or hamstrings or quads 322 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,680 and actively manage the landing force places less stress on 323 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,360 these other joints, IE the the knees. 324 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:25,760 Yeah, you know that. Yeah. 325 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,560 So, surprisingly enough, the tendons are. 326 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,400 Actually quite flexible so. Not even thinking about the 327 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,440 muscles, but the tendons themselves are flexible and 328 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,920 that's what a lot of the plyometrics is focused. 329 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,040 On for increasing people's power jumping and things like that is 330 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,880 you kind of focus on the flexibility. 331 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,960 Of the tendons and stuff. But all the tendons. 332 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,840 And muscles will help, yeah. Prevent or give some shock 333 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,640 absorbing for your muscle or for your more hard parts being like 334 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,160 the bones and the cartilage and stuff. 335 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,920 Yeah. So when we're running, you know, 336 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,320 again, we're not like a tire that's a static thing that just 337 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,080 wears off. We also have the shock 338 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,520 absorption, so we don't even get that much of the pounding. 339 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,440 And I guess it's smart to do strength training as well and 340 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,520 strengthen your muscles around your joints, because that way 341 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,000 you absorb that shock. Yeah. 342 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,160 I mean running itself is going to give you some of that. 343 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,640 I think probably it would be good to do other strength 344 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,720 training or cross training. In that sense, because it'll 345 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,440 give, you know. Support on maybe the muscles 346 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,319 that you're not using continuously and running. 347 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:28,520 It might help you in the case of like a trip or uneven ground or 348 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,640 something like that where it would be an unexpected force and 349 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,600 that your muscles and tendons and then would be able to 350 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,520 compensate. Yes, yes, I like that. 351 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,960 All right. So let's move on to the next 352 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,040 segment. And we're going to talk about 353 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,960 when running does cause problems, we're going to talk 354 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:49,080 about those exceptions. And according to my research, 355 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,240 one of the big ones is training error. 356 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,880 According to the British Journal of Sports Medicine 2004 by 357 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:02,120 Herjak, the single biggest cause of injuries like PFPS is too 358 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,080 much too soon. May you can speak about that a 359 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,600 little bit, Ryan. Yeah, definitely. 360 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,160 It goes back to the. Maximum peak force thing you 361 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,080 know if you're exceeding your maximum peak and in. 362 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,600 In a long distance running it might be harder to understand 363 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,360 when you're getting injured as opposed to other sports where 364 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,880 you may say football, someone hits your knee and you can 365 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,120 obviously feel it. Hurts or it tears ligaments. 366 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,800 It's easier to understand exactly when it happened, but 367 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:27,600 with. Running for. 368 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,320 Instance of like a tibial plateau stress fracture. 369 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:33,000 You might not actually feel it happened, it might just start 370 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,440 getting a little more painful. Over time and as you. 371 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,040 Keep running on it, you're just making it worse. 372 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,240 Yes. So then a lot of times we as 373 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,080 runners don't know what we're doing. 374 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,360 We don't have good guidance. I know that, you know, a lot of 375 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,080 the new runners just kind of overdo it and end up getting 376 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,960 shin splints. And the physiotherapist say the 377 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,360 most common reason for shin splints is too much too soon. 378 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,080 So I guess that could apply to knees as well. 379 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,480 So in running. You know you can. 380 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,520 Get overuse injuries. Patellofemoral pain syndrome is 381 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,840 one of them, which I think that's referring. 382 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,480 To that's just a all. Encompassing term of pain in the 383 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,880 Patella. Or the anterior knee. 384 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,240 That does seem to be a common place for people to get 385 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,480 cartilage loss and knee. Pain and things like that. 386 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,920 But you also have. The anterior knee in the. 387 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,200 Patella is also attached. To the major extensor tendons of 388 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,120 the. Leg which is. 389 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,080 Probably the ones. Used very heavily in running. 390 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,400 Or one of the most heavy ones used in running. 391 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,920 But too much, too soon. You know anything if you if you 392 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,480 go beyond that. Peak threshold, then you're. 393 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,840 Going to cause injury. I mean, I guess that applies to 394 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,360 everything on life, right? You can't overdo things, you 395 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,240 can't over eat certain things and it won't make you feel good. 396 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,760 So I guess I just applies to the knees as well. 397 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,840 It does apply to a lot of parts in life, yeah. 398 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,880 Yeah, another reason or another exception when running actually 399 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,920 does cause problem is because of my research. 400 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,000 It's saying muscular imbalances, weak glutes, medius causes 401 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,520 improper knee tracking and this is fixable with strengths 402 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,440 training. And here I'm citing fervor at 403 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,160 all. From Orthopedic Sports Physical 404 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,240 Therapy, 2010. Yeah, it seems that a lot of 405 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,720 times muscle imbalances can cause problems in joints. 406 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,400 It'd be interesting to see if that gets more research in the 407 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,440 future. But there's a lot of thought 408 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,560 with that. Even in the back, you know, the 409 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,480 back, a lot of your extensor muscles or muscles that help 410 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,560 say, straighten your back, lift, lift your head up, are usually 411 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,640 much stronger than the flexor muscles or your abs in most 412 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,840 people just because they don't get used that often unless 413 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,960 somebody's actually exercising and running, doing stuff like 414 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,360 that. But they've shown, I think in 415 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:40,520 some studies that increasing your AB, you know, musculature 416 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,320 or training your flexor muscles helps your back pain a lot. 417 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,640 And I think that has to do with decreasing that muscle 418 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,040 imbalance. And the same thing can be said 419 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,360 for the knee or other things. That makes complete sense. 420 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,480 I remember having a heart back and you told me maybe you should 421 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200 do some abs and then I did do a little bit of core work and it 422 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,360 it seems to have helped it maybe. 423 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,440 One day doesn't count. I didn't just suit for a day. 424 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,080 I, you know, I think. To add to this topic. 425 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,880 Or this heading the exceptions when running does cause problems 426 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,400 and we talked about how it's not like a tire where it just gets 427 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,440 worn and gets worse. A caveat to that is that some 428 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,440 people. Are just more prone. 429 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,080 To get osteoarthrosis or degenerative change of the 430 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,400 joints, and maybe it's anatomic, maybe it's other things, genetic 431 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,200 or other things. I think in those cases it's 432 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,640 difficult because it could just 'cause, you know, if they have 433 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,760 this anatomic difference to the normal population, it can cause 434 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,200 abnormal wear. And then over time, I don't 435 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,640 think the body can compensate for it. 436 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,400 So it does get worse that and what I've also seen is somebody 437 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,000 that's had like a major injury to a joint, typically it does 438 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,400 seem to get worse, you know, or it's difficult to get, it's 439 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,440 difficult for probably the body to repair or to keep up with 440 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,840 maybe damage being done by exercise or running. 441 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,560 That being said, I wouldn't. Necessarily give up if that's 442 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,240 the case, I would just be cautious and maybe talk to your 443 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,160 doctor. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of key, 444 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,920 right? If if you have the power of 445 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,720 knowledge, then you know how to maybe do something preventative. 446 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,080 Maybe if you know you're prone to something, maybe you will do 447 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,000 more strength exercise to help any imbalances because you know 448 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,720 that could maybe throw you off more than another person. 449 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,400 Yeah. And then going back to the 450 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,200 patellofemoral pain syndrome, one of the most common things I 451 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,680 see is patellofemoral malalignment. 452 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,160 So the Patella in the front of the knee. 453 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,360 It's just it varies a lot between people. 454 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:37,360 A lot of people have Patel Alta, or the Patella just sits high. 455 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:40,280 Other people have patellas that go off to the side, maybe tilt 456 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,320 or other things. Those seem to correspond with 457 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,880 loss of cartilage in that joint too. 458 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,160 And that can cause people a lot of problem and pain. 459 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,560 And if it's not tracking correctly or not kind of in the 460 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,880 right area, you know, I think it's hard for the body to 461 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,000 compensate for the injury being done. 462 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,640 Yeah, that makes sense. And then Ryan, I do have a 463 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,440 question for you because I know we are on the segment where 464 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,200 we're talking about when running does cause problems. 465 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,480 But I know from your practice and you and I have talked about 466 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,760 it 1000 times that you see it first hand. 467 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:19,880 Excess weight in a person is far more detrimental to the body and 468 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,240 the knees than a dynamic load of running. 469 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,160 But now I'm wondering with that said, that if you're heavier, 470 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,400 there might be more damage to your knee. 471 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,240 What about if you are just a heavier runner? 472 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:36,640 Does that make you more prone? Or will the side effects of 473 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,720 running the, you know, strengthening of the stuff 474 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,400 around it, the bone, the cartilage, the kinetic chain, 475 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,680 the muscles around it? Or will that help you? 476 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,960 Still so my observations which are not a scientific study. 477 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,200 So you should look at scientific studies to get information. 478 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,240 Not what I've seen because I might have a subset of patients 479 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,520 that are different than the general population, but that I 480 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,560 see seems to have degenerative change and seems so it seems to 481 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,880 correlate with weight significantly. 482 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,240 I don't think that's only related to weight. 483 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,480 From my understanding, there's, it's a lot more complex than 484 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,640 that, at least from research that I've seen that it probably 485 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,160 has biochemical aspects of it too. 486 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,920 You know, different things that are causing cartilage to not 487 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,920 maybe be as healthy as it could be. 488 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,680 But people like if, if you have less weight, the joints seem to 489 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,080 look better in a general observation by me over the 490 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,440 course of years and hundreds and hundreds of Mris. 491 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,320 But I wouldn't say don't run if you're heavy, because if you can 492 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,120 benefit by losing weight it might help you in the long run. 493 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,840 But what if you're a runner and you're not intending to lose 494 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,160 weight, you're just intending to run, are you? 495 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,520 I think it depends. I mean, I'm talking to like when 496 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,040 I talk about weight overweight, I'm talking like obese and 497 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,480 stuff. Then you start seeing 498 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,880 degenerative change. Like someone in their 30s, if 499 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,840 they're significantly overweight, well, I will likely 500 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,560 find some degenerative change in their knee. 501 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,440 Whereas the general. Population in their 30s, if they 502 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,000 haven't had an injury or so and you just took somebody that 503 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,720 maybe had some smile, knee pain, most likely they're going to 504 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,200 look fine. OK, thank you. 505 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,440 Alright, so let's talk about the surfaces and shoes and how that 506 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,160 modifies the load. There's running surfaces we can 507 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,120 talk about and then there's running shoes. 508 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,560 So Ryan, what are your thoughts on running surfaces as well as 509 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,040 running shoes? And when we talk about running 510 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,120 surfaces, there's hard surfaces such as asphalt and concrete, 511 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,920 there's soft surfaces such as trail and grass, and then 512 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,800 there's obviously shoes that have all the different midsoles 513 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,320 and heel to toe drops and stabilities. 514 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,680 Let's talk about that and some key takeaways. 515 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,480 Yeah. So I think all that's related, I 516 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,520 think you can see sometimes you get those people that will run a 517 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,160 marathon in their bare feet and they'll be fine and they won't 518 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,800 have any problems. I think it's highly up to the 519 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,160 individual. Like you wouldn't want to start 520 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,920 a marathon training program running in bare feet because 521 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,080 you're likely going to exceed that peak threshold. 522 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,200 That's going to cause injury. Likewise, I don't think everyone 523 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,480 needs to have the softest shoes running on the softest surfaces 524 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,880 out there because it's maybe not necessary. 525 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,240 But if you're starting off. And say you're also. 526 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,160 Wanting to lose weight, you want to put on that softer side of 527 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,280 things so you don't overstress your joints and bones and other 528 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,840 stuff. And then you can work your way 529 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,600 to a. A place that's kind of. 530 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,240 Where it makes you happy. You know, I think obviously if 531 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,720 you're going to be running more, you'd want to use a little 532 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,200 softer like you want to make. Sure you have good shoes. 533 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,360 Or other things? Or maybe. 534 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,560 If you have the. Option you can run on softer 535 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,320 surfaces to eliminate that, you know, repeated pounding. 536 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,200 But again. Up to the individual. 537 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,760 Yes. And that makes a lot of sense. 538 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,760 And I guess it kind of goes hand in hand with the way that we 539 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,800 train for marathons because sometimes we do shorter runs, 540 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,600 sometimes we do longer runs, and we have to have that balance of 541 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,840 stress and recovery. And the same goes with all these 542 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,280 beautiful available shoes that we have nowadays. 543 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,200 Because back in the days when my coach Ron was running, you had 544 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,920 one type of running shoe and there was no recovery shoe that 545 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,080 was super soft. And we've seen from runners how 546 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,960 they can put on so many more miles nowadays just because they 547 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,360 have these shoes that are carbon plated and soft and cushy. 548 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,600 And that really helps the the pounding. 549 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,840 Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, to 550 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,880 that same point, though, I think obviously manufacturers are 551 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,640 trying to sell something, so they're going to probably 552 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,160 overstate the value of some of the things they do. 553 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,200 And, and like you said, your running coach ran on tiny 554 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,440 cushioned shoes for marathons and got a 2O9 in the marathon, 555 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,720 which certainly isn't slow. And, and it's unlikely, you 556 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,600 know, that that time would change significantly even with 557 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,360 like much more cushiony shoes nowadays. 558 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,720 I mean, he probably could run more miles. 559 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,880 Maybe because it wouldn't be. Quite as impact. 560 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,160 High, but I think also it's probably overstated a bit the 561 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,840 value because they want to sell shoes. 562 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,920 That's right for you, the constant skeptic. 563 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,840 But you know Ron at the same time, he had quite a few 564 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,320 surgeries on his feet, including having had his planta fascia. 565 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,280 His fascia. Planter Fascia. 566 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Planter fascia cat, you know, but so, so obviously, you know, 567 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,440 take that alt with a grain of salt. 568 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,120 The shoes are definitely valuable and they've improved 569 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,080 significantly over time. I don't mean to say that they 570 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,720 haven't. I'm just saying the value of the 571 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,840 cushioning might be a little overstated because they're 572 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,960 trying to sell, OK. I was going to say because we've 573 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,240 got about 50 to 100 running shoes waiting in the room next 574 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,000 to us waiting to be reviewed. No, it's, it's great because, 575 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,880 you know, I mean, I'd much rather be running in their shoes 576 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,240 than running in my bare feet because it's much more painful 577 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,360 in my bare feet. Absolutely, because remember, 578 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:42,920 well, you and I weren't together then. 579 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,480 I think it was 2010 when the Vibram 5 fingers came out kind 580 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,480 of like the toe sock looking shoes and everybody started 581 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,280 wearing them for long distance runners and everybody started 582 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,800 getting shin splints because you can't just or you. 583 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,800 Can't just jump into that. Yeah, yeah. 584 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,960 And then expect to do the same training as you could with a 585 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,400 more cushion too. That was a painful experience, 586 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,200 but we all paid for it. Yeah. 587 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,840 I mean, I think somebody that maybe is well trained and on a 588 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,480 path and consistent with their running might, you know, 589 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,000 depending on their situation and everything, maybe by decreasing 590 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,040 the cushion for some of their runs, it might help challenge 591 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,560 them and get them over hurdles. But for the most part, you might 592 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,760 as well take the cushiest shoes you can find. 593 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,520 Exactly. All right, so with all that, 594 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,680 let's talk about A Practical Guide to Happy Knees. 595 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,200 Let's do some actionable takeaways for our audience #1 596 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560 master your form. So the goal here would be to aim 597 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,680 for a cadence of about 170 to 180 steps per minute to 598 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,960 encourage a shorter stride and lower peak impact load. 599 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,520 So again, though, that goes with the caveat that you're not 600 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,240 supposed to change your running form. 601 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,080 And the more you run, you'll just naturally fall into 602 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,480 something that you're running a where your body makes the 603 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,080 running economy good for who you are. 604 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,000 Yeah. I think those are some small 605 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,080 adjustments that could be made though. 606 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,600 Like you could just check what your cadence is running and if 607 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,080 you're, you know, you're not unlikely to be significantly 608 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,440 beyond that, you know? But if you say. 609 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,960 Tend to run with larger strides and you're at 160 then maybe you 610 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,120 can try to take smaller strides or so, yes. 611 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,400 Another tip that I have researched is to strength train 612 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,880 for stability. So we all should focus on our 613 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,280 glutes and we can do that by doing bridges or clam shells and 614 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,480 we can do single leg stability exercises. 615 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,240 You can stand on a, you know, one of those half bosy balls, I 616 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,400 forgot what they're called and just work on your stability and 617 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,160 that will help your knees as well. 618 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,360 Well, not even just glutes. I mean, I would just make sure 619 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,400 you strengthen. You know, if you do a nice 620 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,880 weight lifting program where you look into it, where you can just 621 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,000 equally strengthen the legs and the muscles of your leg, that 622 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000 would be beneficial. On it, Ryan. 623 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,480 All right. Next one would be to listen to 624 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,560 your body, because pain is a signal. 625 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,080 You always tell me that because you say don't take anything that 626 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,480 can mask the pain. Pain is a signal. 627 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,280 So if you have sharp recurring pain, that's a signal that the 628 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,400 load adaption cycle has been broken. 629 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,480 In other words, you know, this is not soreness. 630 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,200 This is something that shows you something's actually wrong. 631 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,520 And then maybe examine it and figure out what it is. 632 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,760 Yeah, I mean with that, to each their own, but there is some 633 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,320 studies that show like the NSAIDs or things that are 634 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,640 ibuprofen that are commonly used can maybe inhibit some of the 635 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,960 healing of tendons and ligaments and stuff like you alluded to. 636 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,320 I kind of always said too, if you don't need it, I would avoid 637 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,200 it because pain is your body's way of telling you, you know, 638 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,600 you're kind of pushing it. And if you mask that, you're 639 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,280 kind of getting rid of that signal. 640 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,600 That's what it's trying to tell you. 641 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,120 And if, if it's obviously a lot and it's you, you need to take 642 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,680 some, it's not a big deal, but if you can kind of. 643 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,640 Remember that or use that as. Your guide, it might help you 644 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,520 avoid injury. Exactly. 645 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,440 And then our final message to you guys, you are not wearing 646 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,400 your knees down. So when you're sitting at 647 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,760 Thanksgiving dinner and Uncle Justin is telling you that you 648 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,240 are, now you have some information, take some notes, 649 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,080 and you can defy that argument. Tell them that you're building 650 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,480 them up through your body's incredible ability to adapt and 651 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,320 grow. Yeah. 652 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,720 Now you can find some studies now which are great. 653 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,520 You know, there's a lot of research that's come out 654 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,360 recently that that kind of shows that. 655 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,480 And a ton of that is going to be on our show notes because I 656 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,680 haven't even cited everything that we are talking about right 657 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,080 now. And it's amazing how many people 658 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,840 will still kind of keep that myth going. 659 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,280 Yes, yes, it's pretty crazy. It's also kind of encouraging. 660 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,560 Obviously if you're a running channel, you don't want to tell 661 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,760 people you got a limited amount of time before you wear your 662 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,160 joints out. Instead, you can say you're only 663 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,480 making yourself stronger, so it's kind of fun. 664 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,960 It's fun, and it is actually encouraging, especially now, you 665 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,960 know, going to these marathons and seeing people in their 70s 666 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:04,240 and 80s and beyond, running them, knowing that you know 667 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,960 what, by running, you can actually still be running at 668 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,800 that age, and you're not wearing your knees down. 669 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,360 Yeah. And then for the unfortunate few 670 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,120 that seem to be more prone to it, hopefully you can just like, 671 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:15,960 you know, kind of have a discussion with your doctor. 672 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,520 In some cases maybe it would not be good to run, but I think for 673 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,680 the vast majority of people it seems to be healthier. 674 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,400 All right, so now that you know these actionable takeaways, take 675 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,960 advantage of them. And that brings us to the very 676 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,280 end of this podcast. And now Ryan, what's the code 677 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,000 for the free Mris April Fool? Hopefully you guys learned 678 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,920 something. Thank you Ryan for speaking to 679 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,240 me with all your expertise. You're welcome. 680 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:44,720 So what's next? For you buddy. 681 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,920 So I'm going to be doing quite a few shoe reviews now that the 682 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,160 majors, the fall majors have all come to the conclusion. 683 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,640 So stay tuned for that. Also, if anyone is still 684 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,520 interested in joining our run camp in Kenya from February 16th 685 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,040 to February 25, let me know. We still have a few spots open. 686 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,600 We're not trying to make this a massive group, but we do have 687 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,159 some spots open and we're going to be doing a lot of cultural 688 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,520 immersion Kenya. We're going to do two runs or up 689 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,960 to two runs. You don't have to do 2. 690 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:18,480 Everybody, no matter how fast or how slow you are, is going to be 691 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,400 able to have a pacer and it's just going to be a really, 692 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,639 really good time. We're going to learn a lot, 693 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,239 visit a lot of places. So if you're interested in that, 694 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,400 you can go to runcamkenya.com or you can message me on Instagram. 695 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,080 So check out that website. And with that. 696 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,199 Have a good week of. Running. 697 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,320 Thanks for tuning in. For more information, go to 698 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:43,040 www.marathonrunningpodcast.com or check us out on all channels.