1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,520 You're listening to episode 171 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,840 In this podcast, we're going to talk all about intervals. 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,960 This is the Marathon Running podcast by Letty and Ryan from 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,750 We Got The Runs. Join us in our running community 5 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:24,430 for weekly content that is motivational, educational and 6 00:00:24,430 --> 00:00:26,750 inspirational. And let the Marathon running 7 00:00:26,750 --> 00:00:29,630 podcast take you from the starting line to the finish line 8 00:00:29,630 --> 00:00:37,070 and beyond. Hey runners and welcome to 9 00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:40,070 episode 171. My name is Letty. 10 00:00:40,310 --> 00:00:44,150 My name is Ryan and we are here just like every week to talk to 11 00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:47,070 you about all things running. So what are we talking about 12 00:00:47,070 --> 00:00:49,210 today? So today we are going to talk 13 00:00:49,210 --> 00:00:52,130 about intervals. It's a training episode. 14 00:00:52,130 --> 00:00:55,090 Learning how to train, huh? Yes, those seem to be our 15 00:00:55,090 --> 00:00:59,090 listeners favorites, although our listeners feedback says that 16 00:00:59,090 --> 00:01:02,210 they also like inspirational episodes and nutrition. 17 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:04,050 So I'm gonna. Spread them out. 18 00:01:04,050 --> 00:01:05,610 Hopefully, Yes, that's a good idea. 19 00:01:05,610 --> 00:01:07,610 We try to keep it. Relevant. 20 00:01:07,850 --> 00:01:09,970 Interesting. We try to keep it interesting by 21 00:01:09,970 --> 00:01:11,810 bringing on different types of episodes. 22 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:14,170 But yes, absolutely it's. And if you've been a listener 23 00:01:14,170 --> 00:01:16,810 for a long time, I would love to hear from you guys. 24 00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:20,430 Get some feedback on what type of episodes are your favorite 25 00:01:20,430 --> 00:01:22,910 types of episodes. So lettie's struggling a little 26 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:26,670 bit today because because she had to have dental stuff done. 27 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:30,790 Yes, I had dental surgery with sutures and everything, so my 28 00:01:30,790 --> 00:01:33,470 mind is not quite there. So this intro is going to be a 29 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,150 rather quick one I think. So you're bearing through the 30 00:01:36,150 --> 00:01:38,510 pain to give people their podcast. 31 00:01:38,510 --> 00:01:40,390 That was pretty nice. You're right, Ryan. 32 00:01:40,390 --> 00:01:43,390 We haven't missed an episode since the onset of this podcast 33 00:01:43,390 --> 00:01:45,950 four years ago, so I want to keep that streak going. 34 00:01:45,990 --> 00:01:49,630 Yeah, so I think it's. Admirable that you can do that 35 00:01:49,630 --> 00:01:51,910 many episodes in a row. I mean, I guess I've helped a 36 00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:53,470 little bit, but you do most of the work. 37 00:01:54,070 --> 00:01:58,350 And I think the biggest part of having this stuff done to your 38 00:01:58,350 --> 00:02:00,670 teeth is that they told you you couldn't run for a while, right? 39 00:02:01,070 --> 00:02:03,190 Yes. So after getting those sutures, 40 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:07,950 I was told that I could not run for 48 to 72 hours. 41 00:02:07,950 --> 00:02:10,880 So in my head, I was like, OK, I'm gonna skip one day and then 42 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,640 instead of doing a hard run, I'm going to do an easy run. 43 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:16,880 Because the whole point, you always have to ask why, right? 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,760 The whole point of not running is because you don't want to put 45 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,640 too much pressure on those sutures and have whatever come 46 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,600 out of there, which is gross TMI. 47 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,400 But so I'm figuring an easy run where my heart rate doesn't get 48 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,960 too elevated is something that's definitely doable. 49 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,320 We're in the middle of a training cycle for Chicago 50 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,210 Marathon, so we're going to have our priorities straight. 51 00:02:39,410 --> 00:02:43,850 In typical Letty fashion, like when you broke your foot or 52 00:02:43,850 --> 00:02:47,250 ankle and I said give it six weeks and you're like, OK, 4 53 00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:50,450 weeks and I'm running, just don't check. 54 00:02:50,450 --> 00:02:54,370 Strava, Ryan. And despite talking about 55 00:02:54,370 --> 00:02:57,490 running every week and running all the time, you still love to 56 00:02:57,490 --> 00:02:58,980 run. It's an addiction. 57 00:02:58,980 --> 00:03:01,860 And, you know, I figured out what works best for me, which is 58 00:03:02,140 --> 00:03:06,220 kind of ramping up the mileage and putting a few weeks of high 59 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:09,500 mileage and before the marathon, like it consists in six weeks of 60 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:11,940 high mileage. And we're right there. 61 00:03:11,940 --> 00:03:15,300 So I've been running all week. Can't stop now. 62 00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:20,540 How long is it till Chicago? So Chicago is October 8th and 63 00:03:20,540 --> 00:03:24,140 today recording we are August 25th, so we're about six weeks 64 00:03:24,140 --> 00:03:26,000 away. Yeah, it's pretty close. 65 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,000 Yeah, so double runs it is. From now on, do whatever works 66 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,240 for you. So in the spirit of training, 67 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,120 what did you talk about today? So I spoke with Chris Knighton 68 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,000 from Knighton Runs and he, as you guys know, as a run coach 69 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,440 and we jumped into intervals. Specifically, we talked about 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,710 what intervals are, what type of intervals there are, and how you 71 00:03:47,710 --> 00:03:50,830 use those intervals, particularly in a marathon 72 00:03:50,830 --> 00:03:52,790 training cycle. So basically just what type of 73 00:03:52,790 --> 00:03:55,670 intervals you use as you get closer to your marathon, and 74 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:57,790 what's helpful to you, etc. Nice. 75 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:59,630 Sounds like important stuff to know. 76 00:03:59,950 --> 00:04:02,470 Absolutely. So without any further ado, 77 00:04:02,470 --> 00:04:04,670 we're now gonna hear from Chris Knighton. 78 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:09,750 All right. So I'm back with Chris, Nice. 79 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:12,510 And Chris, thank you so much for joining us again. 80 00:04:13,030 --> 00:04:14,510 Hey buddy, thanks for having me back. 81 00:04:14,510 --> 00:04:16,029 I'm always excited to be on your show. 82 00:04:16,390 --> 00:04:18,790 Absolutely. So Chris is a run coach who's 83 00:04:18,790 --> 00:04:22,350 been coaching for a while now. He is the head coach of night 84 00:04:22,350 --> 00:04:24,190 and runs, which is also his company. 85 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:27,270 And for that reason we wanted to consult with him because he's an 86 00:04:27,270 --> 00:04:32,350 expert on anything marathoning. And today we are talking about 87 00:04:32,350 --> 00:04:36,110 interval training. So let me back up a little bit 88 00:04:36,110 --> 00:04:39,030 for our runners. Maybe you can define for us what 89 00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:43,140 interval training is and then kind of go into the difference 90 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:44,900 that you will see in your marathon. 91 00:04:45,140 --> 00:04:48,660 Just in general when you start implementing intervals in your 92 00:04:48,660 --> 00:04:51,100 training. Sure. 93 00:04:51,540 --> 00:04:58,420 So intervals is a very broad term and there's no one distinct 94 00:04:58,420 --> 00:05:03,100 definition for what it is. But the gist of it is, is 95 00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:06,100 performing types of workouts where you're going to vary your 96 00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:07,870 pace. Throughout the course of the 97 00:05:07,870 --> 00:05:10,310 workout, you're going to alternate between running fast 98 00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:13,390 for a certain period of time, or perhaps for a certain distance. 99 00:05:13,750 --> 00:05:17,190 And then you're going to take a break, which is either going to 100 00:05:17,190 --> 00:05:21,710 be a standing break, a walking break, maybe a jog, or maybe in 101 00:05:21,710 --> 00:05:26,110 some cases actually still a quick run but slower than you 102 00:05:26,110 --> 00:05:30,910 were running in the faster portion of your interval 103 00:05:30,910 --> 00:05:34,700 workout. The reason why we include it 104 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:38,180 into our running training is because putting variety into the 105 00:05:38,180 --> 00:05:41,420 type of running that you're doing is one of the most 106 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:44,500 powerful ways to improve as a runner. 107 00:05:45,740 --> 00:05:49,980 Two of the most important levers you can kind of pull when it 108 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:52,660 comes to leveling up your training. 109 00:05:53,060 --> 00:05:57,340 One is just simply running more. It's running more mileage, but 110 00:05:57,340 --> 00:06:01,380 two is. Putting in the correct balance 111 00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:06,780 of intensity versus comfortable running in your training aka 112 00:06:06,860 --> 00:06:11,020 variety, not doing the same thing every day and intervals is 113 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:14,180 a huge part of how we accomplish that as athletes. 114 00:06:16,180 --> 00:06:18,100 That's perfect and that's very interesting. 115 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:23,300 So two ways of improving is the volume, and I'm assuming maybe 116 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:26,660 you can tell us why does the volume make runners faster as 117 00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:30,890 well as intervals. Yeah, I mean the the gist of it 118 00:06:30,890 --> 00:06:36,770 is so the the premises, the more you run, the better of a runner 119 00:06:36,770 --> 00:06:40,570 you're going to be. The reason why is because our 120 00:06:40,570 --> 00:06:43,490 bodies just become more efficient at running the more 121 00:06:43,490 --> 00:06:46,730 that we do it. We biomechanically run with more 122 00:06:46,730 --> 00:06:50,410 efficient running form. You know, we build that muscle 123 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:53,970 memory of how to spend the least amount of energy as possible to 124 00:06:53,970 --> 00:06:58,240 carry ourselves over distance. Our body slowly gets stronger 125 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,080 over time. Our bones get stronger, our 126 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,480 tendons, our muscles, you know, aerobically we become in a much, 127 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,480 much better shape by simply spending more time exercising. 128 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,840 And you know, over time it really transforms your body from 129 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,080 the inside out. You know as well as external 130 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,760 changes that you'll you'll see where you just become a fitter 131 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,360 and and faster athletes simply from running more, regardless of 132 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,960 the intensity. But then intervals, you know, 133 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,320 varying up the types of running that you're doing and the 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,760 intensities, that has a huge effect as well. 135 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,920 And we can get into that. Yeah, let's do that. 136 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,440 So let's talk about what types of intervals there are, what 137 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,200 intervals do we in the running community call short intervals 138 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,720 versus long intervals, and what their purpose are. 139 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:48,460 Yeah. So I mean at a high level, you 140 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:53,180 could define any type of speed workout as interval training and 141 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:57,180 there's really two, I would say there's two main types that 142 00:07:57,180 --> 00:08:01,900 runners typically do one. So I guess they go by different 143 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:04,780 names. So I'll try to be clear with 144 00:08:04,780 --> 00:08:08,100 this, but for anyone listening, you know, the terminology I use 145 00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:09,740 might be a little different from what you hear from other 146 00:08:09,740 --> 00:08:12,260 coaches. But generally there's, I would 147 00:08:12,260 --> 00:08:14,220 say three types. Let's say there's three types of 148 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:19,170 intervals, and. The difference is how fast they 149 00:08:19,170 --> 00:08:24,810 are and they're going to, they're going to prioritize a 150 00:08:24,810 --> 00:08:28,890 specific element of your your training, what you're trying to 151 00:08:28,890 --> 00:08:31,170 improve by doing that type of workout. 152 00:08:31,650 --> 00:08:37,330 So the three types of workouts, I'm going to reference the coach 153 00:08:37,330 --> 00:08:41,450 Jack Daniels, who popularized these three methods and this 154 00:08:41,450 --> 00:08:43,010 terminology. So. 155 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,480 The fastest type of interval workout would be called 156 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,120 repetition and or or Rep workout and this is typically the 157 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,600 fastest type of running that maybe a marathoner or Rd. racer 158 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,360 would do. This is very short intervals, 159 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,800 things like 200 meters or 400 meters for for most athletes on 160 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,100 a track. If you were doing this off of a 161 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:11,100 track, it might be 30 seconds uphill or minutes uphill or or 162 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:13,740 even just on a bike path, back and forth, that kind of thing. 163 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:18,460 But short, like 30 seconds, minute, maybe up to two minutes. 164 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:23,340 And this is going to be fast. This is going to be about 90% of 165 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:28,220 your effort level, maybe about the pace that you could run in a 166 00:09:28,220 --> 00:09:31,780 one mile race if you're going all out for one mile. 167 00:09:33,230 --> 00:09:38,750 This type of workout is is really about developing your 168 00:09:38,750 --> 00:09:42,910 efficiency as a runner your your biomechanical efficiency, making 169 00:09:42,910 --> 00:09:47,590 it comfortable to run fast and teaching your body how to how to 170 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:51,590 run fast, go through a wide range of movement and run with 171 00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:53,430 really good running form as you do so. 172 00:09:55,670 --> 00:09:57,550 This isn't really about building endurance. 173 00:09:57,550 --> 00:10:00,870 These types of workouts for for marathoners, it's so much faster 174 00:10:00,870 --> 00:10:02,670 than. Any kind of race pace you would 175 00:10:02,670 --> 00:10:05,230 do and the the duration of these intervals is so short. 176 00:10:05,590 --> 00:10:08,430 But you know, say you go to a track and you do something like 177 00:10:09,550 --> 00:10:13,750 6 to 10 by 400 meters and you give yourself a good lengthy 178 00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:15,830 recovery in between and it's really, really fast. 179 00:10:16,110 --> 00:10:19,150 That's going to make any road race pace. 180 00:10:19,150 --> 00:10:23,110 You do feel way slower and it's going to help improve your 181 00:10:23,110 --> 00:10:26,670 running form and efficiency when it comes to doing that kind of 182 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:31,780 road race paste intensity. So that's one style. 183 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:36,460 So the next one would be called the coach Jack Daniels who 184 00:10:36,460 --> 00:10:39,460 popularized these three styles. He would call this interval 185 00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:43,540 training. This is also referred to as VO2 186 00:10:43,540 --> 00:10:48,140 Max style training. This is paces that for most 187 00:10:48,140 --> 00:10:51,660 folks falls around your 5K race pace. 188 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,400 For some people it's a little faster. 189 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,320 If you're if you know what your 3K race pace is, it's about two 190 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,920 miles. For some folks it's as fast as 191 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,760 that, but this is pretty fast. I mean this is for most Rd. 192 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:09,160 runners, 5K is the shortest race that they they would commonly do 193 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,200 and this is you know pretty pretty intense. 194 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:19,080 But I would say maybe about 80 to 85% of your effort level and 195 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,240 these intervals would be a little bit longer. 196 00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:25,610 These intervals you would do maybe between 1:00 to 5:00 197 00:11:25,690 --> 00:11:29,850 minutes in length whereas the the repetitions were only like 198 00:11:29,850 --> 00:11:33,730 30 seconds to two minutes. So the slightly slower VO2 Max 199 00:11:33,730 --> 00:11:37,130 or interval 5K pace type workouts. 200 00:11:37,130 --> 00:11:41,330 These are more like 1 to 5 minutes in length and you would 201 00:11:41,330 --> 00:11:44,450 take rather than a full recovery like you take. 202 00:11:44,450 --> 00:11:47,890 For the the faster repetition workout I was talking about 203 00:11:47,890 --> 00:11:50,530 before, you would take a shorter recovery on these. 204 00:11:53,330 --> 00:11:57,010 The goal with this style of a workout is really to elevate 205 00:11:57,010 --> 00:12:01,530 your heart rate close to its maximum and keep it there for an 206 00:12:01,530 --> 00:12:06,530 extended period of time. Anyone who's ever, you know, run 207 00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:10,730 a 5K all out knows it's really, really hard and it's hard to 208 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:16,570 maintain 5K pace for very long. I mean a 5 minute interval at 5K 209 00:12:16,570 --> 00:12:22,620 pace for for someone, let's say running a. 25 minute 5K or or 210 00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:26,900 faster is incredibly hard, so this is going to get you like 211 00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:31,460 maximum heart rate. It's going to really get a huge 212 00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:36,100 boost to your your aerobic fitness in a way that's simply 213 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:40,180 running. Easy mileage, you know doesn't 214 00:12:40,180 --> 00:12:43,740 necessarily like this is like a quick hit to boost your your 215 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:48,260 aerobic fitness and it's going to help improve your running 216 00:12:48,260 --> 00:12:53,300 efficiency and. Your speed as well, because it's 217 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:56,420 so much faster than most road race distances. 218 00:12:56,420 --> 00:13:00,780 Unless you're focusing on the 5K as your main event, 5K pace is 219 00:13:00,820 --> 00:13:03,500 really going to be good. Really good speed work for for 220 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:09,100 you know, half marathoners and marathoners, this is maybe one 221 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:10,700 of the hardest interval workouts to do. 222 00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:14,100 You know, typically you would take you do something like, 223 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:22,590 let's say maybe 6 * 800 meters. With like a 400 meter recovery 224 00:13:22,590 --> 00:13:27,430 jog and that recovery jog would would be less time than it took 225 00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:32,870 you to do the 800 meters fast and these can all be scaled. 226 00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:35,630 The length of these workouts are all need to be scaled to you as 227 00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:38,670 an individual. So you know a newer runner would 228 00:13:38,670 --> 00:13:40,990 do shorter than the more experienced runner who would do 229 00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:43,470 longer. But the intent is the same 230 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:46,110 regardless of of your ability and experience. 231 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:57,240 So so that would be VO2 Max style intervals perfect and So 232 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,000 what is the third type of interval called? 233 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,400 So now the third type of interval is. 234 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,040 These are more like tempo intervals or lactate threshold 235 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,800 intervals when people talk about tempo running. 236 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,240 There's many different types of tempo runs, but. 237 00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:21,300 You can think of tempo intervals as sort of the slowest type of 238 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,420 interval that you might want to do. 239 00:14:24,380 --> 00:14:28,900 So like all these running terms, there's many different 240 00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:31,020 definitions when people refer to tempo. 241 00:14:31,020 --> 00:14:33,420 It kind of depends on who's saying it and what the coach 242 00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:36,500 means when they're talking about it, but. 243 00:14:38,050 --> 00:14:41,530 Tempo intervals, as I'm going to talk about them today, sometimes 244 00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:44,410 you'll hear these referred to as cruise intervals as well. 245 00:14:44,410 --> 00:14:46,490 It's kind of the same. It's all the same things, it's 246 00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:51,050 different terminology. This is intervals, just like the 247 00:14:51,050 --> 00:14:55,730 faster repetitions and the faster VO2 Max style interviews 248 00:14:55,730 --> 00:14:58,890 I was talking about. This is also shorter intervals 249 00:14:59,610 --> 00:15:03,530 that are broken up with periods of rest, but the paces is. 250 00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:07,410 Notch back a bit slower on these as well. 251 00:15:07,410 --> 00:15:12,370 So your pace, your intensity on this one is really going to be 252 00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:16,850 more like 7 out of 10 effort level. 253 00:15:18,130 --> 00:15:23,050 And that might correspond to for a faster runner, maybe their 10K 254 00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:26,850 pace. For you know, a slightly slower 255 00:15:26,850 --> 00:15:28,650 runner. It might correlate more to their 256 00:15:28,650 --> 00:15:32,370 half marathon pace, but somewhere in that range. 257 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,800 Is what you're going to refer to as as your tempo pace and your 258 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,960 or maybe your threshold pace, it's the same thing. 259 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,520 It's going to feel like a seven out of 10% efficiency or it's 260 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:54,960 seven out of 10 intensity and it's this type of running is 261 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:02,840 challenging but it's not hard. So if if we think of the three 262 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,840 different types of intervals, we have the short fast reps, it's 263 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,720 one to two minutes. Those are fast. 264 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,080 They're very fast, but they're so short, they're not 265 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,600 particularly hard. It's just short and fast. 266 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,800 And then you have the middle ones which are the VO2 Max or 267 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:27,720 the 5K pace or the the traditional intervals these are. 268 00:16:28,410 --> 00:16:30,970 Like 2 to 5 minutes. And these are definitely hard. 269 00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:36,370 These are probably the hardest. 2 to 5 minutes is long enough to 270 00:16:36,370 --> 00:16:40,010 be hard, but it's also fast. And then you have the tempo 271 00:16:40,010 --> 00:16:43,250 intervals where the lactic threshold intervals or the 272 00:16:43,250 --> 00:16:45,810 cruise intervals, depending on who's finding them. 273 00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:51,170 These are longer and challenging, but they're not 274 00:16:51,170 --> 00:16:56,570 necessarily that hard. The reason why you want to do 275 00:16:56,570 --> 00:16:59,460 these these. Tempo intervals. 276 00:17:00,380 --> 00:17:03,380 This is actually one of the best workouts there is. 277 00:17:03,380 --> 00:17:07,700 I most runners, when they start to do workouts, start to 278 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:09,380 implement them into their training plan. 279 00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:13,099 You know, I would say they should be doing this style, this 280 00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:15,859 tempo interval workout, probably once per week. 281 00:17:15,859 --> 00:17:19,540 It's probably for for most Rd. runners, the most important, 282 00:17:19,540 --> 00:17:23,700 most valuable workout to do. These are going to be slightly 283 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,700 longer intervals. Generally, these are going to 284 00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:30,460 be. Anywhere from three minutes all 285 00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:35,660 the way up to 15 minutes, and many different varieties in 286 00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:38,100 between. I mean, you could think of it in 287 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:40,580 terms of my wheels. You could do half mile repeats, 288 00:17:40,580 --> 00:17:43,020 one mile repeats. You could do up to two mile 289 00:17:43,020 --> 00:17:47,420 repeats very fast. Runners might even do three mile 290 00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:52,420 repeats at at this pace. But again, it's kind of at a 7 291 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:54,900 out of 10 effort level. It's. 292 00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:59,570 Challenging. It's borderline hard, but it's 293 00:17:59,570 --> 00:18:04,330 not super hard. But what this style of workout 294 00:18:04,330 --> 00:18:09,530 does is it gets you. It gets you a lot more 295 00:18:09,530 --> 00:18:12,970 comfortable at running fast for longer periods of time. 296 00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:16,690 And for most of the people listening to this, you're 297 00:18:16,690 --> 00:18:21,210 primarily focusing on the half marathon, and marathon would be 298 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:24,720 my guess. This is a speed workout for 299 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,080 those races because it is faster than half marathon and marathon 300 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,720 pace and you're running the intervals for for a good chunk 301 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,840 of time. I'm I'm actually going to go do 302 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,040 one of these later today and I'm going to do 8 by a kilometer 303 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,920 with a 200 meter rest, so that's 8 kilometers. 304 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,160 It's about 5 miles, so I'm going to get 5 miles of running in 305 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,800 broken up with short bits of rest in between. 306 00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:54,980 And that's all going to be around like my 10K to half 307 00:18:54,980 --> 00:18:58,460 marathon pace. So this is a great speed workout 308 00:18:58,460 --> 00:19:02,020 built a lot of endurance. It builds the kind of the mental 309 00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:06,220 strength to run fast for a long period of time as well. 310 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:09,100 But you get these short little breaks in between which are 311 00:19:09,380 --> 00:19:11,460 mentally nice. You can kind of break it up. 312 00:19:12,340 --> 00:19:14,980 Gives you a chance to recover if you had perhaps started too 313 00:19:14,980 --> 00:19:21,580 fast, and by taking short little breaks you can actually do more. 314 00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:25,930 In in a single workout. So I just mentioned I'm going to 315 00:19:25,930 --> 00:19:29,370 go do 5 miles of tempo running today. 316 00:19:30,250 --> 00:19:33,410 That's going to be a lot easier because it's broken up every 317 00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:34,810 kilometer. I got a short little break. 318 00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:37,290 That's going to be a lot easier than just trying to go run 5 319 00:19:37,290 --> 00:19:40,650 fast miles. There's a time and place for 320 00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:44,530 doing a steady 5 fast miles as well, but it's much more 321 00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:48,730 sustainable and you can do more volume if you're you're breaking 322 00:19:48,730 --> 00:19:50,090 it up with these shorter intervals. 323 00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:56,900 So I guess at a high level, and hopefully the listeners are kind 324 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,460 of following me because I know it's a little confusing. 325 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:02,180 Those are the three main types of workouts you have. 326 00:20:02,180 --> 00:20:06,460 You got the fast repetitions, the hard kind of middle length 327 00:20:06,460 --> 00:20:11,900 intervals, and then you have the challenging, still fast but 328 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:16,580 slightly slower tempo intervals. OK, perfect. 329 00:20:16,580 --> 00:20:20,520 So we have defined those 3 intervals and then we're going 330 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,680 to talk about how you implement them in a training plan would 331 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,920 say you have 12 weeks left in a marathon. 332 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,080 But before we do that, maybe you can tell us also what else a 333 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,040 runner is expected to be doing in a week because we hear about 334 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,320 the 8020 rule of 80% easy, 20% harder, etcetera. 335 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,080 And then if we think about implementing intervals, maybe 336 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,680 tell us what other runs a runner will be doing in a week, and 337 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,520 then we talk about how to additionally put these into 338 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:55,120 your. Yeah, So the most common 339 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,000 training mistake that serious runners make or you know, people 340 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,480 when they're getting serious about running make is doing all 341 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,080 of their running at kind of the same intensity. 342 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:11,080 And it tends to be sort of this moderate hardish intensity, you 343 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,760 know, as a as a coach I've worked with. 344 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:16,870 Over 100 athletes, one-on-one at this point, and I see this all 345 00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:18,270 the time. It's the most common thing 346 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:20,390 people come to me. They do all their runs kind of 347 00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:23,550 the same hardish intensity. There's not a lot of variety. 348 00:21:24,430 --> 00:21:27,110 One of the best things you can do to help someone improve is 349 00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:32,150 put that variety into their training, and the 8020 principle 350 00:21:32,270 --> 00:21:36,910 is a great place to start when it comes to. 351 00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:40,030 How to put variety into your training. 352 00:21:40,030 --> 00:21:43,590 And basically what this means is rather than doing literally all 353 00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:47,470 of your runs the same, the kind of same like moderate hard, 354 00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:52,310 which is what most new runners do, you instead transition so 355 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:56,550 that roughly 80% of your runs are very, very easy. 356 00:21:57,070 --> 00:22:02,230 Usually this is much easier than people expect, but then what 357 00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:06,980 that allows you to do is run. 20% of your your mileage, 358 00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:11,620 roughly significantly harder. So the way that this typically 359 00:22:11,620 --> 00:22:16,780 takes shape for for runners is let's say you're going to aim to 360 00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:21,500 run 5 days or six days per week. You can do this on four days per 361 00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:25,180 week as well, but I like I typically like to get people to 362 00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:28,060 run about 5:00. If they're doing less than that, 363 00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:33,140 you're going to have two days that will be faster. 364 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,880 And then you're going to have three or four days that are easy 365 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,160 and you'll space out the two harder days so that there's like 366 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,240 a gap in between them of one or two or three days. 367 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,360 Because. So you're not going to do 2 hard 368 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,200 days back-to-back, but it'll be an alternating between easy, 369 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:59,040 hard, easy, hard, easy, so on. And the way that you get to that 370 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,480 20% of harder running is you pick the types of. 371 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,920 Intervals that you want to put in. 372 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:13,960 So what type of workout you do when is, you know, kind of an 373 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,760 art and a science that that coaches figure out. 374 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,120 And you know, when you look at different training plans, you 375 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,520 speak to different coaches, they'll have different opinions 376 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,080 on what the type of best type of workout to do at different 377 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,880 stages in your training are. But. 378 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,720 You know, if we, if we look at the three different types of 379 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,240 intervals that I just described, you would pick two of those that 380 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,640 you want to do any given week and plug them in. 381 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:47,360 So maybe something I often do is I'll make Tuesday be the fastest 382 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:52,640 run of the week, I'll make Thursday or Friday be another 383 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,280 workout but slightly slower, and then the rest of the days will 384 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,720 be very easy. So. 385 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:05,200 Maybe that Tuesday you would do either a short and fast 386 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,160 repetition workout. Again, this was the the 200 387 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,160 meters or 400 meters at mile pace. 388 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,800 Maybe you would do that on Tuesday. 389 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,960 Or maybe you would do one of these harder VO2 Max workouts. 390 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,880 More like the 5K pace. Something like 4 to 6 by 800 391 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,400 meters at 5K pace. You could do that on Tuesday. 392 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,600 That would be your fastest workout of the week. 393 00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:32,100 And then generally on Thursday or Friday for my runners, I will 394 00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:35,660 give them one of those tempo interval workouts that I was 395 00:24:35,660 --> 00:24:40,460 just talking about. And the tempo workouts, there's 396 00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:44,740 a lot of different ways to do it because the intensity of the 397 00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:49,860 tempo workouts is so much less. It is possible to do pretty long 398 00:24:50,140 --> 00:24:53,140 intervals. So you know, sometimes the 399 00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:56,500 workout just takes the shape of a 20 minute tempo run. 400 00:24:56,910 --> 00:24:58,910 Or for a new runner, a 10 minute tempo run. 401 00:24:59,310 --> 00:25:02,790 It's just 30 minute run. Warm up for 10 minutes, run 402 00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:05,750 seven out of 10 effort for 10 minutes, cool down for 10 403 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:08,310 minutes. That could be their tempo run, 404 00:25:08,590 --> 00:25:10,750 or it could be broken up. Like I said I'm doing later 405 00:25:10,750 --> 00:25:13,750 today. I'm going to do 8 by a K at 406 00:25:13,750 --> 00:25:16,590 tempo with about a 200 meter jog in between. 407 00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:22,990 Many many different ways to do it, but this is how you fill in 408 00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:29,310 that 20%. To get to the 8020 rule and you 409 00:25:29,310 --> 00:25:33,390 know, there's a big question of how long your workout should be. 410 00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:37,630 And this is something that really it's it's I think, 411 00:25:37,630 --> 00:25:42,950 helpful to defer to a training plan or defer to a coach when 412 00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:45,430 figuring out how long your workouts should be. 413 00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:49,310 There is a a math and the science to it sort of an art as 414 00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:52,800 well. You know, but at a high level, 415 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,120 something you can kind of think about is if you're trying to get 416 00:25:55,120 --> 00:26:01,520 roughly 20% of your mileage to be hard, let's let's just make 417 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,720 it simple. Let's say you're running 30 418 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:11,160 miles per week. 20% of 30 is 6. So maybe you do 3 miles of tempo 419 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:19,640 running one day, three miles of faster interval, 5K pace, or. 420 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:25,320 Faster mile pace on another day, so 3 + 3, that gets you to six. 421 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:33,720 Six out of 30 is 20%, so six out of 30 is hard. 422 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,800 Then you would have 24 miles the rest of the week, which are just 423 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,200 very slow, very easy, very comfortable and that 24. 424 00:26:42,910 --> 00:26:46,790 About a 30 is going to allow you to recover between these hard 425 00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:49,830 efforts so that you can show up to your next hard effort well 426 00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:54,070 rested and ready to give. You know your best at it by the 427 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:57,110 time you get there, and getting this balance right is what keeps 428 00:26:57,430 --> 00:27:00,030 keeps athletes healthy and injury free long term too, which 429 00:27:00,030 --> 00:27:02,470 is, which is really important. Perfect. 430 00:27:02,470 --> 00:27:04,830 Yeah, I was just going to add that that that whole recipe 431 00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:08,390 helps you be able to recover and stay injury free while you're 432 00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:11,190 still performing to your best. So that's awesome. 433 00:27:11,740 --> 00:27:15,500 So, all right, so say we have 12 weeks left before a marathon and 434 00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:20,340 now we're talking about having athletes pick their workouts. 435 00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:23,700 And obviously every athlete is different. 436 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,780 So I know it's hard to give a blanket statement, but just from 437 00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:31,360 a logical perspective, when you're training for a marathon 438 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,440 and you said earlier in the beginning that when you are 439 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,440 starting these intervals, you probably would do shorter 440 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,120 intervals more. Not because they're better 441 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,520 necessarily for you, but they get you used to it. 442 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,800 So once a person is trained to, you know, they have pretty good 443 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,240 base training under their belt and they're ready to do some 444 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,080 workouts, how do you recommend the length of certain intervals 445 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,360 over the preceding weeks before the marathon? 446 00:27:58,130 --> 00:28:02,370 Yeah. So I write about this concept 447 00:28:02,370 --> 00:28:05,010 called the Six Phases of Marathon Training where you move 448 00:28:05,010 --> 00:28:07,890 through them, and we actually recorded an episode here on your 449 00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:10,410 podcast buddy about this that listeners can go back to. 450 00:28:11,650 --> 00:28:14,570 Each phase of training, you're going to emphasize a different 451 00:28:14,570 --> 00:28:18,650 aspect of your fitness, and this is going to help determine which 452 00:28:18,730 --> 00:28:22,730 workout type you do. So, so the six phases I have my 453 00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:25,490 athletes work through is base training where it really is just 454 00:28:25,490 --> 00:28:27,250 easy running. You're getting ready to run 455 00:28:27,250 --> 00:28:28,930 fast, but you're not running fast yet. 456 00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:33,290 The next phase is the speed development phase and this is 457 00:28:33,290 --> 00:28:34,890 where you would begin to do workouts. 458 00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:40,530 The third phase is race specific training and then you start to 459 00:28:40,530 --> 00:28:42,010 taper. That's the next phase. 460 00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:44,250 Then you have your race day performance and then you have 461 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:47,090 your recovery period and then you would restart this cycle 462 00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:48,530 every time you're training for a marathon. 463 00:28:50,250 --> 00:28:55,890 The way that the types of workouts I assign progress 464 00:28:56,530 --> 00:28:59,770 during this these phases of training is you start off by 465 00:28:59,770 --> 00:29:03,490 doing your shorter and faster intervals first when you're the 466 00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:05,530 furthest away from your marathon. 467 00:29:06,090 --> 00:29:08,690 And then as you get closer and closer to your marathon, your 468 00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:13,450 intervals get longer and slower so that that they are more 469 00:29:13,450 --> 00:29:18,210 specific to what the marathon event is alike. 470 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:25,660 So it's typically what's it I I usually think in 18 weeks for a 471 00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:28,820 marathon training program I might give someone five weeks of 472 00:29:28,820 --> 00:29:33,340 easy running based building with no speed and then I would have 473 00:29:33,340 --> 00:29:38,740 them do about four weeks of VO2 Max style workout. 474 00:29:38,740 --> 00:29:40,860 So this is that 5K paste interval. 475 00:29:40,860 --> 00:29:43,620 These are the 2 to 5 minutes. They're shorter and fast. 476 00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:47,620 This is going to help them get as fast as possible. 477 00:29:48,510 --> 00:29:53,270 While they're still good ways away from their marathon, and 478 00:29:53,270 --> 00:29:58,270 then for the the final second-half of marathon 479 00:29:58,270 --> 00:30:01,590 training, maybe about 8 weeks of marathon training before you 480 00:30:01,590 --> 00:30:06,470 start to taper, I would have athletes transitioned to 481 00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:09,630 marathon specific workouts, so this is going to be more of 482 00:30:09,630 --> 00:30:12,190 those tempo intervals I was talking about before. 483 00:30:12,190 --> 00:30:16,510 So longer, slower, but still faster than marathon pace. 484 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160 If you were training for an event other than the marathon, 485 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,600 you may take a different approach to how you you handle 486 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,040 this. But I generally think if you're 487 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,320 training for a marathon, you really want to get as fast as 488 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,800 you can first by doing a shorter and faster VO2 Max style 489 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,920 workouts early, get them out of the way early, and then in the 490 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,080 final eight weeks, two months or so before your marathon, really 491 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,840 focus in on those longer, tempo, marathon specific. 492 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,920 Kind of workouts. The reason why I do that 493 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,880 ultimately for the marathon is because the marathon is 494 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,880 primarily a test of endurance. You really need to condition 495 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,400 your body and mind to be able to run for a fast pace for 496 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,800 incredibly long time. You know, hours. 497 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,080 So while speed is important when marathon training, the most 498 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,680 important thing is endurance at quicker paces. 499 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:21,200 So that's why we focus on these longer challenging but still 500 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,640 quite fast tempo intervals in the final two months or so 501 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,240 before a marathon. Okay, perfect. 502 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,550 And I guess my last question to you today is, let's talk about 503 00:31:34,550 --> 00:31:36,270 race week. I know there are a lot of 504 00:31:36,270 --> 00:31:38,750 coaches. I know we know about tapering or 505 00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:40,670 I guess we'll know more. We'll bring you on again and 506 00:31:40,670 --> 00:31:42,950 talk about the specifics maybe perhaps a little bit more. 507 00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:47,950 But when it comes to race week, I know that some coaches have 508 00:31:47,950 --> 00:31:52,070 runners do a few more intervals or I guess the Tuesday before 509 00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:54,990 your Sunday race, it's a big interval day. 510 00:31:55,630 --> 00:31:57,630 Maybe tell us about the purpose of that. 511 00:31:57,630 --> 00:32:00,910 And then also, I have recently read that a lot of coaches are 512 00:32:00,910 --> 00:32:06,980 also giving their runners more specific shakeout runs for the 513 00:32:06,980 --> 00:32:10,540 Saturday runs where instead of just going those 3 miles super 514 00:32:10,540 --> 00:32:13,860 easy, they have them do other things and that they say that 515 00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:15,980 there is an increase in performance shown. 516 00:32:16,340 --> 00:32:18,820 Can you tell us about those two things? 517 00:32:20,820 --> 00:32:25,620 Sure. So it roughly takes about 10 518 00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:29,820 days for our body to internalize the benefits of any workout. 519 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:36,370 So there's not. Too much scientific. 520 00:32:36,370 --> 00:32:39,610 Kind of like training reason to do any super hard workouts 521 00:32:39,610 --> 00:32:42,130 within a week and a half of your your goal race. 522 00:32:42,850 --> 00:32:47,370 However, doing shorter workouts are going to keep you fresh and 523 00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:49,010 feeling good. You're not going to start to 524 00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:53,170 feel rusty and it's going to maintain your confidence and get 525 00:32:53,170 --> 00:32:56,770 you, you know, keep you engaged and feel mentally as if you're 526 00:32:56,850 --> 00:33:01,140 you're ready to go. So the taper period is really 527 00:33:01,140 --> 00:33:06,380 about balancing the rest which our body needs to let our full 528 00:33:06,380 --> 00:33:09,980 fitness emerge and and have a a peak performance on race day 529 00:33:10,340 --> 00:33:15,940 with the kind of mental component of you know you as an 530 00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:20,140 athlete you need to feel you know 100 percent, 10% both 531 00:33:20,140 --> 00:33:23,500 mentally and physically. And anyone who's ever trained 532 00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:26,500 for a race often knows, you know, you can have doubts during 533 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:29,780 the taper uncertainty about. You know, if you're actually 534 00:33:29,780 --> 00:33:31,820 going to feel as good as you thought you were going to, if 535 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:35,860 you're ready, sometimes people start to feel a bit sluggish 536 00:33:36,140 --> 00:33:38,420 because they maybe haven't been running as much as they were 537 00:33:38,420 --> 00:33:40,980 before. A lot of this is mental and it's 538 00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:44,340 important to remember that through experience you you start 539 00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:46,220 to learn this, but it's it can be tough. 540 00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:51,060 So I do like to give a few very short, very easy workouts during 541 00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:56,420 the taper and the really, I usually just give one so. 542 00:33:56,710 --> 00:34:01,670 The Tuesday or Wednesday before a marathon I I usually just give 543 00:34:01,670 --> 00:34:05,590 one of two workouts that the two workouts that I give just choose 544 00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:08,989 one of the other. Depending on the athlete I 545 00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:13,150 either give a Six Mile like so one is I give a Six Mile run 2 546 00:34:13,150 --> 00:34:17,429 miles warm up take a break, put on. 547 00:34:19,630 --> 00:34:22,670 Sorry let me repeat that. 2 miles warm up, take a break, do 548 00:34:22,670 --> 00:34:26,130 any stretching or. Kind of dynamic warm up 549 00:34:26,130 --> 00:34:31,690 exercises that you like to do before race, then go run 2 miles 550 00:34:31,929 --> 00:34:36,810 at your your marathon goal pace. If you set one for yourself and 551 00:34:36,810 --> 00:34:40,530 then cool down with two easy miles, this is a super easy 552 00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:44,330 workout. But it's kind of a race week 553 00:34:44,330 --> 00:34:46,690 dress rehearsal of what it's going to feel like When you go 554 00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:49,929 do your marathon. I I always say put on your 555 00:34:49,929 --> 00:34:52,449 racing clothes, put on your racing shoes, bring whatever 556 00:34:52,449 --> 00:34:55,830 gear you're going to bring. Load your pockets with like gels 557 00:34:55,830 --> 00:34:57,070 or whatever you're going to bring. 558 00:34:57,950 --> 00:35:01,230 This is just one last little test that all things feel good. 559 00:35:03,630 --> 00:35:09,390 It's also a good just practice and pacing, where it's only two 560 00:35:09,390 --> 00:35:11,510 miles of marathon pace. This should be super easy. 561 00:35:11,630 --> 00:35:14,270 So if you find yourself starting too fast and doing these two 562 00:35:14,270 --> 00:35:17,670 miles too fast and it's like okay, when I get to my marathon, 563 00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:20,790 I just need to like really chill out and make sure I start slow 564 00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:23,230 because I don't want to start too fast. 565 00:35:24,580 --> 00:35:27,100 So that's usually the workout that I give another variety of 566 00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:31,620 that is the same thing, but you know, short warm up and then 567 00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:34,300 three times a one mile at marathon pace with a short 568 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:36,660 little recovery and then a short cool down. 569 00:35:37,180 --> 00:35:40,780 Either of those are good just to maintain a sense of consistency 570 00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:43,780 and make sure it all systems feel good. 571 00:35:45,260 --> 00:35:50,640 And then you mentioned. Kind of like a shakeout run the 572 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,920 the day before. I do typically give one and it's 573 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,000 the same as I would give really before. 574 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,160 Before any important race. I just say, you know, hey, go 575 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,560 run 10 to 20 minutes, you know, one to two miles, easy. 576 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,640 Wear the stuff you're going to wear in your race. 577 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,320 The clothes, the shoes. Bring the gear at the end of 578 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,530 that. Short run, stop. 579 00:36:16,530 --> 00:36:19,490 Go through any warm up exercises that you like to do. 580 00:36:19,850 --> 00:36:21,690 Make sure everything in your body's feeling good. 581 00:36:21,690 --> 00:36:28,890 Kind of check over yourself, you know, visualize what it's going 582 00:36:28,890 --> 00:36:31,530 to feel like tomorrow when you're lining up for the race 583 00:36:31,530 --> 00:36:34,770 start and how are you going to feel and and go through that now 584 00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:37,490 so that you're comfortable when it's time to do that tomorrow. 585 00:36:37,930 --> 00:36:41,370 And then usually I just say cap it off with a few short strides, 586 00:36:41,370 --> 00:36:45,930 so you know. Maybe 230 second runs. 587 00:36:45,930 --> 00:36:49,330 Kind of practicing the pace you want to start the marathon at. 588 00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:52,330 So just, you know, run, run down the street, 30 seconds, just 589 00:36:52,330 --> 00:36:55,170 like you're starting the race. Give yourself a couple minutes 590 00:36:55,170 --> 00:36:58,930 rest, run back just like you're starting the race at that pace. 591 00:36:59,530 --> 00:37:02,970 And then then you're good to go. Get stay off your feet until 592 00:37:02,970 --> 00:37:05,890 race today and relax and cuz you've done all the hard work. 593 00:37:06,970 --> 00:37:08,450 I love this. Thanks Chris. 594 00:37:08,450 --> 00:37:12,290 I like the comparison to a dress rehearsal because I feel like, 595 00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:15,750 like you said, we can't gain that much fitness anymore 596 00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:18,550 anyway. But the whole mental part is 597 00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:22,910 obviously the hardest because as you said, tapering can feel 598 00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:27,190 pretty bad and so to put your mindset at peace is is a great 599 00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:30,430 idea. So thank you so much for you 600 00:37:30,430 --> 00:37:32,990 know once again coming on and speaking with me and then maybe 601 00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:36,150 let our listeners know again how to contact you, how to find you 602 00:37:36,350 --> 00:37:38,950 in case they are looking for a coach and want more information 603 00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:43,560 from you. So yeah, thanks for having me 604 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,040 on. Real easy to reach out. 605 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,240 Just go to my website itsnightandruns.com or I'm on 606 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:55,760 Instagram at night and runs and really best ways to to learn 607 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,480 more. I have a book Run Faster 608 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,480 Marathons, The Proven Path to PR. 609 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,880 You can learn more about my marathon training methods. 610 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,920 I have training plans on my website for download ioffer 611 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,420 one-on-one coaching with me. And then I have a podcast as 612 00:38:10,420 --> 00:38:13,500 well, which I think I'm up to about 70 episodes on. 613 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,780 So if you want to hear more about me blabbering on, listen 614 00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:19,620 to those, sorry, perfect. Thank you, Chris. 615 00:38:23,660 --> 00:38:26,340 Thanks Chris. This was super informative and I 616 00:38:26,340 --> 00:38:29,140 hope it helped all of our listeners as well. 617 00:38:29,420 --> 00:38:32,660 Like always, tell us if you like what you like, what you don't 618 00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:34,340 like. We'll try to improve. 619 00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:36,700 It's always good to get feedback from our listeners. 620 00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:40,980 We love it, so contact us if you don't wanna post and leave a 621 00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:43,740 review, you can message us. We're on Instagram at Running 622 00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:46,300 Podcast. So lady, one of your running 623 00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:48,420 friends brought to your attention that you weren't on 624 00:38:48,420 --> 00:38:51,660 Amazon Music. Crazy, right? 625 00:38:51,660 --> 00:38:54,700 We've been podcasting for four years and I hadn't noticed that 626 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:59,740 we never got onto Amazon. So starting today, you guys, we 627 00:38:59,740 --> 00:39:03,500 are also on Amazon Music, which is really big because Amazon is 628 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:06,670 one of those things. Everybody has Amazon, everybody 629 00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:10,630 has Amazon Prime, and everybody has Amazon Music. 630 00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:13,590 So I don't know how many listeners, poor listeners, 631 00:39:13,590 --> 00:39:15,110 missed out on our awesome podcast. 632 00:39:15,110 --> 00:39:19,030 I don't know. But no without joke. 633 00:39:19,070 --> 00:39:21,870 I can't believe this happened. I'm going to check all the other 634 00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,590 channels, but I think we're pretty much everywhere. 635 00:39:24,910 --> 00:39:28,710 But we weren't on Amazon Music. So with that have a great week 636 00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:35,760 of running. Thanks for tuning in. 637 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,240 For more information head to www.runningpodcast.us and as 638 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:42,960 always have a great week of running.