1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 You're listening to episode 310 of the Marathon Running Podcast 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,960 by Marathon Journal. In today's episode, we are going 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,360 to tackle the question, when is it too late, if ever, to start 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,480 training for a marathon? Welcome to the Marathon Running 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,360 Podcast by Marathon Journal. Join us every week for the 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,000 insights and inspiration you need to get from the starting 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,080 line to the finish line and beyond. 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,960 Hey runners, and welcome back to the Marathon Running Podcast. 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,200 I am your host Letty, and today we're tackling a scenario that I 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,160 think almost every runner has faced at some point, the panic 11 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:40,760 phase of training. And that panic phase can happen 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,200 due to various reasons. Maybe it's because you had a 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,360 brutal winter that kept you indoors, or maybe life just got 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,920 in the way or you just forgot. You didn't realize that the 15 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,200 marathon was sneaking up on you and now it's there in a couple 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:54,600 months. Or maybe you had a lingering 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,440 injury that had you questioning your whole progress. 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,360 I think we've all had that moment where you look at the 19 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,800 calendar and see that the race is only 6 to 8 weeks away and 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,280 you think, Oh my gosh, is it too late? 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,960 And to navigate through this question, I called one of my 22 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,680 favorite coaches, Coach Todd from the Smart Approach Training 23 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,960 and he's quite a veteran at helping athletes manage the cram 24 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:17,120 session without ending up on the injury list. 25 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,760 I can attest to that because one of my personal friends called up 26 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,840 Coach Todd 8 weeks before the Boston Marathon and she's 27 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,480 actually running it today. Yes, today is the day of the 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,480 Boston Marathon if you're listening to this on Monday, 29 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,480 Patriots Day. So obviously this session is pre 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,360 recorded because I'm in Boston. But anyway, back on track. 31 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,640 In this conversation we really pull back the curtain on 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,040 training triage. We talk about the literal red 33 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,000 flags that mean that your race isn't salvageable versus the 34 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,240 niggles you can work through. We talk about the exact strategy 35 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,240 you could use if you are healthy but severely under trained and 36 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,760 why Coach Todd almost never uses the term marathon pace when he's 37 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,480 preparing his athletes for race day. 38 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,720 If you've ever doubted your training build or you're 39 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,680 currently doubting your build and wonder if you should still 40 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,720 toe the line, this episode is for you. 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,160 So let's jump right into my conversation with Coach T. 42 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,640 All right, so I'm back on with Coach T Thank you so much for 43 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:16,720 joining me again. Hey Letty, always great to be 44 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,560 back. Yes, and you've been on our 45 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,240 previous episodes. For those new listeners, 46 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,840 however, maybe you can introduce yourself and talk about your 47 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,240 coaching business a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. 48 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,200 Yeah. I'm Coach Todd based out of 49 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,040 Green Bay, WI but but certainly work with athletes all across 50 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,680 the world. Usually 5K to marathon I work 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,960 with, even though I've done some ultra marathon coaching as well. 52 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,280 But you know, passion is, you know, I love 5 KS. 53 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,840 So if someone says, Hey, I want to get better at a 5K, I'm like, 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,080 yes, I, I, I love that. Unfortunately, that's not the 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,040 norm in this world. It's, it's everybody just wants 56 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,080 to kind of gravitate toward the half or the full marathon 57 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,240 because that's where the, the prestige is and, and the 58 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,520 popularity and, and obviously the publicity as well. 59 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,560 But yeah, I work with several athletes across the world. 60 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,200 And you know, my passion, it goes back to the fitness 61 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,160 industry. I worked as a personal trainer 62 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,080 way back in the day. And so later on in life, you 63 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,800 know, as an aging athlete, I've kind of in the last, you know, 64 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,960 7-8 years, I've kind of revisited that one-on-one 65 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,320 coaching and I've just, you know, developed even a greater 66 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,360 passion for running, even though I've reigned for many, many, 67 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,160 many years and, and just love developing athletes. 68 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,120 That's my passion is, is to take some from where they're at. 69 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,680 And you know, everybody's on their own little journey and 70 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,440 let's take them from where they're at and let's just build. 71 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,680 And that could be a 25 year old, it could be a 67 year old 72 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,560 starting. I mean, we're all unique. 73 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,320 So I love, I love developing. And you do really well with 74 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:54,640 that. And I can attest to that just 75 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,080 because I know personally a couple of your athletes and they 76 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,120 are thriving. So that's good. 77 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,440 And I was inspired actually by one of your current athletes 78 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,520 because she kind of last minute ish, maybe a month or so prior 79 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,440 to the Boston Marathon, decided that she needed you back in her 80 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,720 life. And so she hired you. 81 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,760 And with that, I was kind of thinking, OK, let's do a podcast 82 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:24,680 on training and coaching and building up before a marathon. 83 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,520 And in what cases, you know, when someone comes to you, do 84 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,760 you decide or do you guys decide that this is not happening or 85 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,200 this is happening? So basically, when is it too 86 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,640 late? What cases are not salvageable? 87 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,680 Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a great question. 88 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,360 And and I think, you know, most marathon coaches would probably 89 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,240 tell you, give you a similar answer. 90 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,560 As you know, it's not ideal to hire a coach 4 weeks before your 91 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,600 marathon or 8 weeks before your marathon. 92 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,560 You know, it's kind of like, hey, let's let's have a long 93 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,640 range plan or hey coach, I'm looking at doing a marathon five 94 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,480 months out or four months out, you know, can you help me? 95 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:12,240 So then, yeah, that that's certainly in play. 96 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,480 You know, like I said, I love to develop runners from marathon to 97 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,200 marathon because there's so much you can work on in between the 98 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,480 marathons, from recovery to the training to fuelling. 99 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,640 There's so many things part of the journey to become a better 100 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,080 marathoner. So when someone says, you know, 101 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,800 I got 8 weeks, what can you do for me? 102 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,720 So it's a challenge or 4 weeks because there's a period of time 103 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,360 where you have to get to know an athlete. 104 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,480 You don't know what you know what their 5K paces. 105 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,840 Have you done half marathons? You know what they're what's 106 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:45,040 going on up here mentally. Are they a tough runner? 107 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Are they do they have strength deficiencies? 108 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,160 There's so many variables. So, so it's not typically the 109 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,120 market that I'm going after. Hey, you got 4 weeks left or 8 110 00:05:54,120 --> 00:06:00,320 weeks left here, Coach T That's not that doesn't motivate me as 111 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,360 much because it makes it hard on me. 112 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,320 It really is is more of a challenge. 113 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,240 So, but with that being said, you know, the runner that we're 114 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,400 talking with, because I have a history with her, you know, you 115 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,280 know, things happened, you know, through circumstances in life, 116 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,520 you sometimes you just can't continue with coaching. 117 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,040 And I get that. And I think in this instance, 118 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,200 coaching was very valuable to this athlete. 119 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,720 And then I think she'd run a couple marathons that haven't 120 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,800 gone as well without a coach. And, you know, this training 121 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,240 cycle has been kind of a cram session, you know, leading up in 122 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,280 the last 4-5 weeks and then gets to the point where you just get 123 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:41,520 beaten up because you're trying to do too much too soon 124 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,800 beforehand. So, so yeah, I will take on an 125 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,640 athlete 8 weeks before, 4 weeks before if there's a history or 126 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,600 if I feel like, hey, this is somebody that I really need to 127 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,560 help. You know, that's my nature. 128 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,400 I want to help runners. I don't want to say sorry, 129 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,200 you'll figure it out. Eight weeks, get through it, 130 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:01,960 then call me. It's kind of like my natural 131 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,120 tendency is OK, you need help, Let's let's work through this. 132 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,240 Let me help you and I'll get you to the finish line and then we 133 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,960 can decide if you want to continue so. 134 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,800 Yeah, I mean, that completely makes sense. 135 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,760 I wouldn't be, I would not want to be put in a situation like 136 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,920 that in literally any case in life, right, Because there's so 137 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,440 much more. As you said, you have to know 138 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,760 the athlete, but let's talk about the athletes that coached 139 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:35,040 or uncoached had an injury or just kind of dragged their feet 140 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,360 on their training and suddenly we have that wake up call, oops, 141 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,360 it's six to four weeks or whatever before our marathon. 142 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,600 What can we do? What can those people do? 143 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,880 Which injuries are too big to tackle a training? 144 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,120 Which goals are too big? And how would one, you know, 145 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,040 progress with that, that now we finally, you know, when I want 146 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,880 to get started on the training. Yeah, the, you know, the injury, 147 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,120 you know, there's there's, you know, what's an injury? 148 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,160 OK, you know, I think we, you know, all runners like, hey, I 149 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,440 my foot hurts. Is that an injury or is that a 150 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,520 niggle? OK, I can work through it. 151 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,640 I think the challenge is, you know, my foot hurts. 152 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,160 You know, how do I manage the rest of my plan? 153 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,880 You know, the plan I'm looking at says I need to do this, this, 154 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,840 this, and it's like, well, my foot kind of hurts. 155 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,960 I can run, but I'll do a run and it gets worse. 156 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,920 Now what do I do? So I think there's a lot of 157 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,840 mismanagement by an athlete who tries to do things on their own 158 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,080 because they they just don't know how to maybe manage their 159 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,799 discomfort or determine is this an injury or I see it all the 160 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:44,159 time. You know, runners go to the 161 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,440 doctor, you know, I'm going to put you in a boot. 162 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,960 Don't run for two weeks. And I've even had some of my 163 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,800 runners do that where it's like, no, consult with me. 164 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,280 I have a recovery background I can get you through before going 165 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,240 to the doctor, where of course they're going to tell you, hey, 166 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,640 you got a little tendonitis. I recommend not running. 167 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,040 Let's wear the boot. So then they come back to me. 168 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,080 Coach, what do you think about that? 169 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,600 I'm like, now you're asking me to go against doctor's orders. 170 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,160 You know, I have different philosophies on things. 171 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,720 In most cases, it's just your body just needs more recovery. 172 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,960 Your foot hurts. Maybe you need 2-3 days of no 173 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,400 running or biking or you know, a week of easy running. 174 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,720 So you need that. In many cases you need that 175 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:29,040 person or myself as a coach to tame the runner down. 176 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,200 Let them understand that you're not going to lose fitness in two 177 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,320 days, three days a week. So a runner like your reference, 178 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,640 say if they're 68 weeks out and maybe they're man, my foot is 179 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,440 really hurting. So I would look at that runner 180 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,680 and, and you know, there's a lot of question and answers and 181 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:47,280 tests that I take them through. You know, it could be strength 182 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,320 tests, it could be, hey, does it feel better as you're running? 183 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,600 That's a good sign. Sound of a classic maybe overuse 184 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,880 syndrome that gets better. Maybe we can work through that 185 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,960 coach man, Mile one, it's not bad, but mile 3 or 4, it starts 186 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,440 to hurt and I need to stop. Then that's a red flag where I 187 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,680 will look at that runner in a different light and maybe say, 188 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:12,400 hey, Bob, we just need to take a week off running and we need to 189 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,160 get your body back. So maybe at 5 weeks before we 190 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,200 can get hey, build up a little bit, get another long run in, 191 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:22,080 start to build a little confidence leading up to the big 192 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,520 day. But at any point, if the pain 193 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,040 continues to worsen as the training goes on, even if he had 194 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,520 took three days off that first run back, gosh, my knee is just 195 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,080 still hurting bad. And then we have to look at, you 196 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,720 know, revisiting can we do this race because runner safety is 197 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,800 first and foremost. I don't want them to go through 198 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,600 a run and then be wrecked for months afterward. 199 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,840 So that's always a tough decision when one-on-one with a 200 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,680 real life coach, you know, we go through that back and forth as 201 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,040 to what's the risk reward. Can we manage this? 202 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,040 Can a little rest time get you back to where we can build up 203 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,640 enough where you're confident enough to maybe finish or or 204 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,560 race the way you want to race? So there's a lot of back and 205 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:14,040 forth when you get to that stage at 6-8 weeks or at any points. 206 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,680 I've already started coaching runners. 207 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,320 Hey, can you 5 months? You know, my knees hurting right 208 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,880 now, but I want to be ready for this marathon at five months. 209 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,560 I'm like coming to me hurt, you know, this is going to be again, 210 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:30,080 a challenge where, you know, you want to come go into a marathon 211 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,440 training plant fit, not trying to get healed before the 212 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,000 training actually starts. So there's a lot of back and 213 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,120 forth conversation to kind of work through this. 214 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,320 And and that's a challenge of of runners doing it on their own. 215 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:48,480 It's they don't know how to tame their training. 216 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,040 It's it's I'm sore, but gosh, I got to follow this plan or I'm 217 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,080 just not going to, I'm not going to be where I need to be or I 218 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,640 miss my long run because my knee is sore. 219 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,120 So I'm going to make it up next weekend at full amount 18. 220 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,120 I missed my 18 last week because my knee was hurt. 221 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:06,720 So I'm going to do 18 this Saturday. 222 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,080 It's like, no, your knee was hurting. 223 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,880 You probably should not be doing 18 the next week. 224 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,400 You need to back off maybe 8 or 10, see how you feel and then if 225 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,240 everything is good, maybe the following week, revisit that, 226 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,880 that longer run. So that's the challenge of 227 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,880 training that I go through with all my athletes. 228 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,680 And again, the struggle with with runners and you see it now, 229 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:32,160 you know, we're well into the spring and people have goal 230 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,920 races coming up next month. May is a kind of a popular time 231 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,640 where it's, you know, you know, my knees hurting, my foot's 232 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,440 hurting, you know, I missed my 18 mile or, you know, should I, 233 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,360 can I do my 20 mile or two weeks before instead of three? 234 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,640 All these questions come up. So. 235 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,800 But I love that challenge. But I feel for some runners who 236 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,200 go through that internal struggle. 237 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,920 Yes, yes, absolutely. That's why it's so important to 238 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:04,520 have a coach. What about this case scenario? 239 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,280 Say a runner comes to you and says, hey, I was really excited 240 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,280 and I signed up for this marathon, but I did not train 241 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,680 because I live in Wisconsin and it's really cold. 242 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:20,240 And then all of a sudden they decide, OK, let's do this 243 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,200 marathon anyway, I've got about 8. 244 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,800 Let's let's give you 2 months. Let's say I have about 8 weeks 245 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,600 left. There's not a lot of bass 246 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,760 fitness there. What do you think are the most 247 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,600 important and non negotiable sessions that this runner should 248 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:44,040 do to at least complete it or even have a time goal? 249 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:51,680 Yeah, you know, 8 weeks in, you know, I very well may could 250 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,440 discourage the runner from doing it. 251 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,760 However, if they've signed up and it's like hey, I'm doing 252 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,520 with my friend or it's a run I've always wanted to do. 253 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,920 So there's a lot of factors you take into account. 254 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,160 But if someone is under trained at 8 weeks out, there's a whole 255 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,120 different way of looking at this race. 256 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,080 First and foremost, there's no time goals. 257 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,760 I mean, just no, you know, unless you're like an elite 258 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,680 athlete who's getting back healthy and it's like, yeah, you 259 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:22,040 know, I've run, you know, 230, but I'm just, if I break 3 260 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,200 hours, I'm fine. You know, that's a different 261 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,720 type of athlete. Most of the athletes that are 262 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:32,840 out there are, are not elite. So for 99% of the athletes who 263 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,080 say, hey, you know, I do CrossFit and I lift weights and 264 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,760 I'll hop on a bike, but man, it's, it's 8-9 weeks before I 265 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,000 really want to do this. You know, I think, you know, as 266 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,480 a coach, I'm going to evaluate where they're at. 267 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240 You know, I may just first and foremost say, hey, let's go do a 268 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,120 time trial. I want to just see where your 269 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,920 base fitness is and what could be a one mile time trial, could 270 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:58,120 be a 5K or do a local 5K race. I want to get a feeling on, you 271 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,160 know, what their ability is to pace, what their toughness is, 272 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,200 you know, the race day experience, how they handle that 273 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,120 because I want to start to get it, get into the mind of the 274 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,760 runner because I think that's real important leading up to the 275 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,920 big day. You know, the mental toughness, 276 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,200 the confidence where you feel you are as an athlete physically 277 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,720 and mentally. So I think at 8 weeks out, you 278 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,360 know, that's something I'm going to look at. 279 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,920 But you know, from a standpoint of, you know, we're going to 280 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,120 build that fitness at a high level in the next six weeks. 281 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,400 You know, there are adaptations that do take place in 6-7 weeks. 282 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,360 And if you haven't been running in a lot of those are 283 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,920 neuromuscular where you just start to learn the skill of 284 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,760 running a bit more where, hey, you know, after two weeks it 285 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,720 just feels a little bit more natural just because that 286 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,640 coordination factor is coming back, that skill is coming back 287 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,240 and that's meaningful. You know, that matters. 288 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:58,640 But to think you're going to try to squeeze in 16/18/20 milers in 289 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,920 that time frame, in my opinion, is not realistic. 290 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,520 I mean, there might be exceptions if someone is just 291 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,600 biomechanically fit, they're younger, you know, they've never 292 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,760 had injuries. And, you know, and maybe we, we 293 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,520 push some longer runs potentially, you know, at least 294 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,200 one where you can get a real lot of, you know, great practice 295 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,880 with the fuelling and, and, you know, build a little confidence. 296 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,800 But depending on the level of athletes, sometimes if they're 297 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,000 coming in untrained, you know, I may gravitate toward more of a 298 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,800 run walk method just because I don't want heart rate spiking 299 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,560 early on in those training sessions because you just start 300 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,680 to teach your body to just dig into carb stores, you know, real 301 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,320 quickly. And and obviously for a 302 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,760 marathon, we want to become a little more efficient at burning 303 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,200 fat. So I don't want these these test 304 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,880 sessions or these hard workouts. And sometimes it's good getting 305 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,920 back to A345 mile run. You know, they'll just run at a 306 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,080 pace that they did their last marathon at or their last 5K. 307 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,920 And it's like, man, I was hired 4 miles, my heart rate was 175. 308 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,320 And I'm like, no, that's not what we want to do. 309 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,200 So I'll try to scale them back and actually take a probably a 310 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,599 three-week period of let's just build some base, a lot of easy 311 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,359 runs. Let's get the skill of running 312 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,640 back, you know, slow trickling up with with mileage. 313 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,200 You know, we have to be careful with increasing miles and 314 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,280 intensity. So intensity is not even in my 315 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,760 vocabulary aside from, hey, we can do some strides, maybe fast 316 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,440 finish run occasionally just to get the turnover and and that 317 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,880 additional skill you get from turning the legs over and 318 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,800 running. But 95% of the runs are let's 319 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,120 just try to build some fitness and, and get your body back 320 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,480 being more efficient and training. 321 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,880 And then through that build up, maybe with three weeks, 4 weeks 322 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,760 left, it's like, hey, let's try to get in a, a longer run, 323 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,120 perhaps with a run walk. Let's dial into fueling, trying 324 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,840 to build some confidence. I don't want to tear them down 325 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,440 in those first 3-4 weeks where they're beaten up and and 326 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,040 mentally, how am I going to do this? 327 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,640 How am I going to do this? I want there to be a build up 328 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,440 physically and mentally where it's like, hey, I'm at a point 329 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,320 lining up at the start line where I may not be where I want 330 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,920 to be, but I think I'm as good as I can be at this point. 331 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,200 I got feeling dialed down. I got the hydration. 332 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,920 I'm going to follow coach's plan, whether it be, you know, 333 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,040 starting easy or I'm going to do a walk every 5 minutes or every 334 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,960 10 minutes. So I come up with a game plan 335 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,360 based on where they're at physically on race day. 336 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,520 And then I wanted to be a great experience for that runner. 337 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,520 If you go in under trained and you have a time goal, it's 338 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,080 probably not going to be a good day. 339 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,200 I figured you would say that and I was kind of hoping you would 340 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,480 say that because obviously that's a very specific scenario. 341 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,280 But let's step away from that and talk about an ideal cycle 342 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,680 for someone to train for a marathon. 343 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,200 Let's say it's somebody who's already a runner who's probably 344 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,760 done a couple marathons before. What do you think the ideal 345 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,440 cycle looks like time wise and build up intensity wise? 346 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,960 And let's just take an average person, you know, middle-aged, 347 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,480 no injuries, just so you have, I know it's, it's difficult to to 348 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,120 imagine that Kent scenario. Yeah, for sure. 349 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:17,640 I mean, obviously each athlete is different and I think that's 350 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,640 the first thing to point out that even if somebody's done a 351 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,280 couple marathons, it could be, hey, I haven't ran in much in 352 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,120 the last three months. You know that athlete, you know, 353 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,960 I may want 2024 weeks. You know, we need the 1st 4 to 8 354 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,320 weeks of just getting back into a regular habit of consistency 355 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,560 of running. So essentially a six to eight 356 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,440 week base building period. And then we're now 1618 weeks 357 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,880 out and now we can actually go through a more specific training 358 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:50,760 plan where you at least going in with some sense of, hey, I ran 359 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,600 the last 6 to 8 weeks at an easy pace and you know, mixing in 360 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,720 some speed here and there. But but I'm going into the 16 to 361 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,920 18 weeks feeling, you know, a little more confident, a little 362 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:01,400 more fit, a little more resilient. 363 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,080 You know, most of the athletes I work with, you know the ones 364 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:11,440 that stay with me, you know, offseason is, you know, once or 365 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,640 twice a month I'm avenue 1214 milers. 366 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,160 You know that that's a mainstay where you know, they go into 367 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,400 marathon training already fit. So 16 weeks is plenty. 368 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,320 You know, we can three weeks in do a 16 Miller feel great 369 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,760 running at 18 Miller nothing to it didn't even feel like I ran. 370 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,000 So they're in a much better place where, you know, 16 weeks, 371 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:40,080 14 weeks is is enough time to to to build up philosophically, I 372 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,200 think it's different for each athlete as far as how I 373 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,080 structure the specific plan for them. 374 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,880 You know, the, you know, the beginner, newbie, less 375 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:54,400 experienced marathoner, it's really building that consistency 376 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,280 and fitness without this overemphasis on speed. 377 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,120 I think many plans are, you know, you have to do the tempo 378 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:02,480 around each way. You got to do the intervals. 379 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,880 Yeah, you got to. It has to be this, this, this, 380 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,960 this. And it's like, yeah, those are 381 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,920 important, but but not for every athlete. 382 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,200 Or maybe we wait till they build some strength and resilience and 383 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,040 then we start to target more of, you know, the faster stuff in 384 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,320 the 8 weeks leading up to it. For a more experienced athlete, 385 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,920 I, I made focus more on, you know, the, the faster work early 386 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,080 on in a training cycle. And there's always a balance of 387 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,720 that throughout, But I like working on the speed component 388 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,920 either in the offseason or early on in the, the training cycle. 389 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,840 And as you get closer, you know, hard push on stamina workouts 390 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,720 threshold. I love certain type of workouts 391 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,760 that, you know, critical velocity and certain type of 392 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,280 thresholds and, and always training a bit faster than what 393 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,240 you're going to run the marathon at. 394 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,240 Because my goal with any athlete is to go out and do some pretty, 395 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,120 a decent amount of miles at a pace that that's faster than the 396 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,200 marathon pace. And then they say, oh, that 397 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,240 wasn't hard at all. So then we know when we back off 398 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,800 15 seconds, 30 seconds to the pace they're going to run the 399 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520 marathon at, it's going to be like, coach, this is actually 400 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,080 easy. You sure I, I should be running 401 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,560 this easy? That's where I want their mind 402 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,040 at. So. 403 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,200 So yeah, I don't know if I answered the question. 404 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:24,280 There is some variance for each individual athlete, but 16 weeks 405 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,320 is is a good target for the more experienced athlete and then 406 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,280 someone who's, you know, been out of it a while. 407 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:39,520 I like that 2024 week window. So you kind of went to that and 408 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,560 thank you for for elaborating on that. 409 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,320 But you kind of were talking about, you know, some people 410 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,720 have a longer period of time and I'm assuming that's more base 411 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,280 building. So could you maybe define if you 412 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,960 have different phases in your training cycles where you're 413 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:58,760 like, OK, for the first 8 to 4 to 8 weeks, I'm going to do base 414 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,080 building, some time trials. And then what are the other 415 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,080 stages that you go into? And then also maybe touched on 416 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,560 tapering and how long you prefer for an average athlete to do 417 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,640 that? Yeah, for those runners who are 418 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,040 doing more of the 20 to 24 week, you know, training plan, you 419 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,400 know, that's usually those 4 to 8 weeks are a lot of hey, let's 420 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,080 just build that consistency back. 421 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,960 Let's get some time on your feet, you know, get that running 422 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,880 skill back, you know, just with with, with more easy runs. 423 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,160 And again, a touch of speed mixed in there too. 424 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,200 But 95% of it is easy. And then, you know, 16 weeks 425 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:43,280 before, you know, I think there's a, you know, I, I do so 426 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,280 many different types of workouts because I believe in, in working 427 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,360 such a variety of paces in training. 428 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,200 I think, you know, the average runner who's following a plan, 429 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,680 let's say they have a 9 minute marathon pace. 430 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,040 It's like most of their runs just seem to be 830 to 930 pace. 431 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,240 Like everything is in that range and a good day I'm running 432 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,680 faster than marathon pace and a slow day I'm running 9:30, which 433 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,960 isn't really slow by definition if it's 30 seconds slower than 434 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,240 marathon pace. So the polarization is key for 435 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,480 that 9 minute marathon or I don't, I want them running 436 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,360 intervals or striders at six minute pace. 437 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:22,200 I want them doing their easy runs at 1011 minute pace. 438 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,480 So there's just this big polarization and we just try to 439 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,120 develop that a bit in base training, but more so in those, 440 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,520 those first 6 to 8 weeks in the, the training plan, it is to 441 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,320 really keep the easy days easy. And we've heard that before. 442 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,800 So that when it comes to a day where there's work or quality 443 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,760 work in the plan, you can excel that particular day. 444 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,960 And even if that's 510% of your weekly miles, I want those miles 445 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,640 productive and efficient and strong. 446 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,480 And if you go into these key workouts over trained because 447 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,600 you're running your easy runs too fast, that's just not a 448 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,840 clear way or a positive way of developing in that training 449 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,400 cycle or long term. So I do instill these trying to 450 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,320 teach these habits and that's, you know, with the first time 451 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,480 marathoner or, or or emphasizing it to the long time marathoner. 452 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,960 But yeah, as we get closer through, you know, 8 weeks into 453 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,480 the training plan, you know, I'm always evaluating. 454 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,640 You know, it could be, hey, let's do a just do a time trial. 455 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,400 Let's go do this local 5K. You know, maybe it's wise to do 456 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,120 a half marathon four or five weeks before to give us a good 457 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:38,040 reading as to where you're at. And that will help me as a coach 458 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,120 in my determining what I feel you can run that marathon at. 459 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:49,280 So I call them predictor workouts or where I may say go, 460 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,240 do you know a certain long run at these paces? 461 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,120 And I just, I really get in tune with the feel of the athlete. 462 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,520 You know, what are they feeling at these paces? 463 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,640 Tell me what this felt like. And I have my definitions of of 464 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,040 different feel paces because marathon pace should feel 465 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,600 comfortable, should feel like cruising. 466 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,960 And I think, you know, when working with all athletes, it's 467 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:21,440 reconditioning them that a marathon isn't hard until later 468 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,560 on. You know, most of the race 469 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,960 should be cruising. It really should be at some 470 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,280 point. It's sure you're going to be 471 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,360 depending on whether there's going to be, I'm getting tired, 472 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,520 I get that. But if you're trained properly, 473 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,640 you know, the work starts occurring in the last third of 474 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,880 the race. And so the whole training build 475 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,520 up is really designed to build their their strength and big on 476 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,880 stamina work over pure speed. I think sometimes the pure speed 477 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,120 work is emphasized too much for the average runner. 478 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,560 You know, I got to get out and do these hard intervals too 479 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,240 often. And elite athletes, sure, but I 480 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,440 just, you know, I sprinkle those in, in the right quantities, but 481 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,240 I'm more into the stamina, the threshold type work, the 482 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,560 critical velocity that that has to be in the mainstay of the 483 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,640 quality work. Because we have to become more 484 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,960 efficient at, you know, lactates coming in, you know, all the 485 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,800 cookie stuff, the acidosis. We have to be more efficient at 486 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,800 fleshing that out as it comes in. 487 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,440 So that's where where the specific stamina work comes in, 488 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,720 which I do a heavy emphasis on that throughout the whole 489 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,320 training plan. Then as you get closer, we start 490 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,520 dialing into paces that I feel like, you know, what can this 491 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,520 runner do? You know, the four weeks before, 492 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,320 5 weeks before, I'll give them some, some predictor workouts 493 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,600 and, you know, tell me how this pace felt. 494 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,080 And they're like, oh, coach, that was pretty easy. 495 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,880 So I write that down, I record it and ultimately it leads to, 496 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,840 you know, what I feel like they can do on race day. 497 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,200 As far as the taper, I think that's also individual. 498 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,560 I think we also get caught into, you know, this is what this plan 499 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,280 says. I have to do a three-week taper. 500 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,920 Well, maybe 80 mile a week. Bob doesn't need a three-week 501 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,960 taper, but 30 mile a week, Susie needs a three-week taper. 502 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,280 So it also depends on how they're feeling. 503 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,840 It's like, oh man, I'm three weeks and I'm just, I'm just 504 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,400 tired. I'm beaten up. 505 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,240 I'm just, I can't wait for this to be over with. 506 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,960 Well, then we probably start the three-week taper. 507 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,640 Most of my athletes, it's closer to a two week taper. 508 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,800 You know, especially the ones that have been working with me 509 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,400 because they're, they're so fit going into the training plan and 510 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,440 are enjoying the training and they don't need 3 weeks. 511 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,240 It's like, let's, let's you know, maybe 2 the two weekends 512 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,040 before we'll knock that long run down South. 513 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,400 Essentially, it could be like a 15 day taper if you take into 514 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,720 instead of doing a 2022 Miller that that two weekends before 515 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,800 you might do 14 and then the following week there is a 516 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,040 reduction. And then the last week is it 517 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,640 just a bit more reduction? I'm big on staying true to your 518 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,240 training plan as far as days per week, but just knocking down the 519 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,600 volume and the intensity, especially that last week so 520 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,200 that you'd go in feeling, you know, recharged, refreshed and 521 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,080 very, very confident and, and confidence is, is what it's all 522 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,680 about. It really is. 523 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,120 It has a lot to do with everything. 524 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,200 And I guess my last question is going to be about determining 525 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,640 marathon pace and the predictor predictor workouts that you were 526 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,960 talking about. Tell us a little bit about your 527 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,280 method of how you gauge where runners are, because there's a 528 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,840 huge difference in whether someone can maintain a certain 529 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,160 pace and how it feels for two miles versus, you know, 26 530 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,760 miles. Yeah, this is, I'm probably one 531 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,680 of the few marathon coaches who don't use the term marathon 532 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,400 pace. I mean, there are exceptions. 533 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,480 If I'm working with an athlete that my last three marathons 534 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,960 have been 403-4074 O1, OK, we can say marathon pace is 535 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,920 whatever, 9915 pace pretty safely say we're in that range 536 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,600 and we can have a goal of breaking 4. 537 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,800 That's a different type of athlete, I don't think. 538 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,680 I mean, you can say, hey, I ran a 5 or a half marathon and 1:45 539 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:18,680 and the predictor says I can do a 340 marathon and I'd be like, 540 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:25,720 no, you're not a 340 marathon. It's the predictors are it can 541 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:31,400 be effective in a very tenured, experienced high mileage runner. 542 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,200 OK, so if some of the heck I've done, you know, 6 marathons and 543 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,120 I'm running 50 to 70 miles a week, typically my 5K and 10K 544 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,960 times match up on the predictor. My 5K is equal to my half 545 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,200 marathon. Well, then you can probably look 546 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,280 at the the marathon pace and say, OK, this is in the ballpark 547 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,720 for that type of runner. You know, a big chunk of runners 548 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,120 out there look at the calculator and then they say, well, it says 549 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,240 I can run 340. So I'm just going to start 550 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,360 training at those paces because that's my marathon pace. 551 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,080 And what happens is it's just too aggressive for many runners. 552 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,320 They'll train focusing on that three hour and 40 minute pace. 553 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,680 And then they'll find that in their workouts like man, that's 554 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,880 that's hard. You know, these workouts to do 555 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,960 that for five miles nonetheless 26 and they get a little bit of 556 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,920 a burnout. And so I think for me it's using 557 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,120 time trials and like I said, predictor workouts where you 558 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:37,560 want to have a specific type of workout where they can run at 559 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,920 certain paces, let's say 9 minute pace. 560 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,400 Let's say they want to break 4 hours. 561 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,720 So at 9 minute pace, they'll say go run three by three miles. 562 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,880 And how did it feel in that last three miles after maybe a 2 563 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,760 minute jog, still felt felt good, felt cruising. 564 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,480 So that tells me a lot like, hey, after 9 miles at 9 minute 565 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,360 pace, I think that's in play. So then maybe later on in the 566 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,120 training cycle, I may say, hey, you know, 4 miles easy, 10 miles 567 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,120 at 9 minute pace, and I might say throw in 2 miles at 8:45 568 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,760 pace. How did the at 8:45 pace when 569 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,640 you were stressed a little bit feel like? 570 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,520 No, I was feeling great, feeling good. 571 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,040 So that again, is a type of indicator that 1416 miles into 572 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,800 their training run running a little bit faster than what I 573 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,600 feel they can run, they're still doing OK. 574 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,440 That's kind of a good reading for me where it's like, OK, I 575 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,760 think this is in play. So I always throw in these these 576 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,520 type of certain type of workouts. 577 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,440 And then there's always this back and forth through my 578 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,240 training app. It's like, hey, John, you know, 579 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,920 how did this feel at that pace at in the middle of it, at the 580 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,880 end of it? And what was the temperature 581 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,800 today that factors in as well? You know, one day it could be 75 582 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,640 and humid. Oh man, that was hard. 583 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,640 And I'd be like, well, I'm not going to, you know, you tried to 584 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,720 push through that. So I think it should be hard at 585 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,960 8:45, nine minute pace because of the heat. 586 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,080 Let's maybe try this again on a 5560° day and it could be a 587 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,760 whole different story. So, so those are things that I 588 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,080 look at throughout the training cycle, the these indicator 589 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,320 workouts, predictor workouts, again, trying to throw in some 590 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,920 races there too, because I'm also trying to determine race 591 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,840 toughness. That's a big deal too on race 592 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,920 day. And when things start to hurt, 593 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,400 you know, do we give in or do we mentally stay with it and stay 594 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,240 tough? So that factors in as well. 595 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,760 And then there's obviously a lot of other variables too when 596 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,520 you're looking at fueling and hydration and so forth. 597 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,400 So hopefully that helps. It does help and it just makes 598 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,040 us realize over and over and over again that there's so many 599 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,120 variables and every person is individual and you know, it's 600 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,600 really difficult to put it all together. 601 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,480 But hopefully this was also helpful for our listeners. 602 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,920 And if they are of interest in speaking with you directly and 603 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,440 maybe get some advice, how do they best get in touch with you? 604 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,360 Yeah, you can find me on, you know, on Facebook. 605 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,719 My Facebook site is Smart Approach Training. 606 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:15,960 I'm on Instagram at at run coach Todd, my website 607 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,000 issmartapproachtraining.com and you can also find me too. 608 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,960 I'm on a Facebook group called I love to run. 609 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,000 I've been on there for like 089 years as coach T and giving 610 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,520 weekly tips and and advice and and then also just feel free to 611 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,040 to direct message me if you have questions. 612 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,719 I'd just love to love to chat on anything. 613 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,199 I always encourage runners, you know, direct messaging me a 614 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,679 question on shoes or fueling and I'm happy just to chat. 615 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,600 Don't feel the pressure that I'm asking you to be coached by me. 616 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,280 It's just just good, healthy, friendly communication, so. 617 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,199 I love it. And I didn't even know that you 618 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,120 had that Facebook group. What was that called again? 619 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,680 I'm not the owner of the group, but it's called I love to run. 620 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,000 I'm one of the admin and the coaches on that side, the main 621 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,840 coach where I give weekly tips and, and you know, there's 622 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,760 discussion through those tips and, and always good advice. 623 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,280 And so I encourage, you know, listeners to to be part of those 624 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,360 type of groups and we're always trying to learn so. 625 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,000 Yeah, that can be so helpful. I will definitely put all of 626 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,400 that in our notes. Thank you so much for speaking 627 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,160 with me. I truly appreciate it. 628 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,760 Hey I loved it lady. Always great talking about 629 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,640 running and marathoning, right? Yes, absolutely. 630 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,800 Thank you Kutch T for navigating through these thousands of 631 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,640 questions that I had. As always, I think we all came 632 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,080 out on the other side with more clarity and basically that's 633 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,560 what we're trying to do with this podcast. 634 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,520 We're just trying to help all the runners out there navigate 635 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,400 through that training and toe the race line and be happy. 636 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,440 A happy runner is a good runner. And with that, I'm going to end 637 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,480 the podcast right here. I hope everybody did great. 638 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,440 If you ran the Boston Marathon, congratulations. 639 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,080 We would love to hear from you. If you're running it right now 640 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,720 and listening to this episode, which is a possibility because 641 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,520 our episodes come out at 4:00 AM, then let us know too. 642 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,480 We'll interview you about your Boston experience on this 643 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,160 podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. 644 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:19,720 Stay tuned for next week. And until next time you've been 645 00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:21,880 listening to the Marathon Running Podcast by Marathon 646 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,200 Journal. If you've enjoyed the show, 647 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,880 check us out at Marathon Journal. 648 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,000 Com or follow us on social media. 649 00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:29,120 Happy training.