1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,880 You're listening to episode 307 of the Marathon Running Podcast. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,800 In this episode, we're going to talk about what happens if you 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,800 stop banking time and do your nutrition right. 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,480 Welcome to the Marathon Running Podcast by Marathon Journal. 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,160 Join us every week for the insights and inspiration you 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,000 need to get from the starting line to the finish line and 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:27,680 beyond. Hey runners, and welcome to 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,760 episode 307. My name is Letty and today's 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,840 episode I'm very excited for because we can always learn 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,040 something new. And today we're going to do that 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,040 with our guest, James McCurdy from McCurdy Trained. 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,680 McCurdy Trained is AUS based company that has runners all 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,080 over the world and they operate quite a bit different from what 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,920 I've seen lately. There's a lot of AI going on and 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,400 a lot of running coaches that have a ton of clients and 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,520 they're trying this broad approach, understandably so 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,800 because obviously the more clients you have, the more money 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,800 you are going to earn because obviously every client pays 19 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,160 their rates. What's different with McCurdy 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:12,360 trained is their non existent approach with automating stuff 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,680 and having templates. I have personally met James 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,000 McCurdy and some of his coaches on many occasions, especially in 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,280 the media scene and especially because he also has a lot of 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,240 runners that are high level. And in our conversation with 25 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,520 James McCurdy today, we are going to talk about specifically 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,680 two of his runners that have grabbed my attention because 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,880 they were plastered all over social media. 28 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,520 One of them is going to be Daniel Mesfan, who ended up 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,920 winning the Dublin Marathon after stopping for his fuelling 30 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,200 when he couldn't find it at his elite tables. 31 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,760 So literally this guy is running this marathon. 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,400 And Daniel Mesfan, I know him too. 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,240 He's a very, very cool person. He stops and goes back to look 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,720 for his bottle, letting everybody go by. 35 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,800 That triggered something in my brain. 36 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,720 Maybe if he thinks nutrition is that important that you let the 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,400 lead pack go, maybe it should be like that for us too. 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Now, the second one of his clients that we're going to talk 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,720 about is going to be Nathan Martin, who just recently won 40 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:16,040 the LA Marathon. He won it by 0.01 seconds, and 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,920 obviously that's kind of crazy, but it's not the finish that 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,520 made me want to talk about him. It was his negative split. 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,480 I know the LA Marathon course and I know that at the beginning 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,240 of the course is much easier than the end of the course. 45 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,960 And just the whole negative splitting concept was very 46 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,320 interesting. So all of this comes down to 47 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,040 what's important and what he, James McCurdy coaches his 48 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,600 runners to do. All right, so with all that 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,280 said, I'm now going to play my conversation with James McCurdy. 50 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,800 All right, so on with James McCurdy of McCurdy Train. 51 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,560 James, thank you so much for coming on today. 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:53,480 Really appreciate it. Let it. 53 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,000 Thank you so much for having me again. 54 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:56,440 Yes, and thank you for your time. 55 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,480 This is going to be a really fun episode brought you on because 56 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,280 you had some of recent successes. 57 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,560 And we're going to talk about Daniel Mess Fun, and we're going 58 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,400 to talk about Nathan Martin, who just recently won the LA 59 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,840 Marathon, and then hopefully pull out some learning lessons 60 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,080 for our audience with that, if that's fine with you. 61 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,640 Absolutely, yeah. Very awesome. 62 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,840 So let's start with Nathan Martin who ran the LA Marathon 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,120 just a week ago. But by the time this airs it's 64 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,640 probably going to be a couple weeks. 65 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,720 But it was absolute chaos at the finish when we saw him run and 66 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,240 win the race by .01 seconds. And of course I'm a nerd. 67 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,520 I looked up his split times and it looked like he started 68 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,280 running at five O 2 minutes per miles pace and that transits 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,000 into three O 8 and finished with a negative split running 5 70 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,720 minutes per mile, which is three O 6. 71 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,320 And I've run the LA Marathon a number of time. 72 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,560 And I know in the beginning you have Dodger Stadium, 73 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,960 everything's downhill and then it gets quite hilly. 74 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:03,200 So I guess maybe tell us about Nathan and then how not just 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,360 him, but many of your athletes just seem to really do that 76 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:08,960 negative split so well. Well. 77 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,640 Nathan's an interesting character. 78 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,560 I've been with him now for three years. 79 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,880 I took over coaching when his former coach, Coach Dante 80 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,880 stepped back from from private coaching. 81 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,160 And actually Coach Dante reached out to me. 82 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,000 He said, hey, listen, would you have an interest in in working 83 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,360 with Nathan? And I knew Nathan a little bit 84 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,760 and he he knew some of the outfits that I was working with. 85 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,800 So they and they were friends. So I was like, yeah, like we can 86 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,640 transition this, this coaching relationship relatively 87 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,960 seamlessly. And, and Nathan is been with me 88 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,880 now, like I said, for about 3 years. 89 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,080 And it, it's gone really well in some aspects, but it's also, 90 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,200 we've had some, some misses. And some of that was, was my 91 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,680 fault with training concepts where I was still learning a 92 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,120 little bit about him and, and, and some of the things that he 93 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,720 needed as a human outside of, of, of training, but things that 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,520 would affect his training. But then also too, like he just 95 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,440 had a, a few moments of bad luck where he got really, really sick 96 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,360 right before the Chicago Marathon a year ago, a year and 97 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,120 a half ago, right before CIM this past fall, maybe 8 weeks 98 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,240 before he, he got a really nasty round of COVID-19 and the the 99 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,800 dude could only run like 45 or 50 miles a week. 100 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,480 But even even with some of those sicknesses that came through, 101 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,440 you know, he was 7th at the Olympic trials and you know, he 102 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,600 was 63 seconds away from making the US Olympic team that, you 103 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,280 know, from the finish line, that's a quarter mile. 104 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:44,880 But you know, from over, over the distance of 26 miles, it's 105 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,360 really not that that much different. 106 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,880 And so it's like, man, like if we could just crack a few 107 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,840 things, maybe we'll have a little bit of a break out and 108 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,480 maybe that maybe that can be the catapult to to start something 109 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,680 moving forward. And we started seeing a little 110 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,120 bit of greatness out of them when it came to not long after 111 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,720 the Olympic trials. You went 46 flat for 10 miles at 112 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,640 the Cherry Blossom race and you know, that's an honest course. 113 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,560 That's that was AUS championship and that was a fantastic race. 114 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,920 And it was like, wow, OK, he's got some leg speed. 115 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,200 And if we could just translate this to the marathon, it it'll, 116 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,000 it'll work out really well. So we always knew we had power, 117 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,480 but to see him finish the way he did in LA was was in a a 118 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:34,760 remarkable, remarkable finish. But he trained through a 119 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,600 Michigan winter and you know, you were before that you were 120 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,600 recording, you were talking about not a lot of hills where 121 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,520 you are. So either are in a parking 122 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,280 garage or whatever you can to mimic hills. 123 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,680 Nathan, I mean, he's got hills in Michigan, but the winter was 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,960 pretty severe where he lives. And so he spent a lot of time on 125 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,920 the treadmill this time around. Wow. 126 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,560 I mean, that's pretty amazing to hear. 127 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,280 I mean, I've seen Instagram videos of your footage where you 128 00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:02,360 are reacting to it and it almost seemed like you knew this was 129 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,960 something, you know, he he was going to do I'll. 130 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,680 I'll say this, my, my coaching plan of attack was that the race 131 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,200 was likely going to start out a lot faster just because of the 132 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,760 pedigree in the race of who I mean, they had a 2O four guy, a 133 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,560 2O6 guy, a few two O 8 guys. So like the, the concept that 134 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,280 they would go out as slow as they did was I was, I was 135 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,640 baffled, but I also wasn't on the street. 136 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,280 I wasn't there in person, so I didn't know what the air felt 137 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:32,440 like. I didn't know what the heat 138 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,240 really was radiating off the pavement. 139 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,360 You know, there's a reason why LA, the organization, said, hey, 140 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,720 what if you, if you're going to stop at mile 18, like it's OK, 141 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,480 we understand. It was pretty severe weather for 142 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,800 a lot of people out there. That being said, I expected the 143 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,880 race to go off a lot faster just because that's generally what 144 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,080 will happen in this type of environment, especially when 145 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,240 they're chasing the women and there's an extra $10,000 on the 146 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,320 line. And when only one man did that, 147 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,360 I was like, well, it's over. You know, they're they're all 148 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,120 racing for 2nd place. And my wife is sitting next to 149 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,960 me and she said, you know, this is in the like the first like 150 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,240 10K of the race. She's like, I don't know why, 151 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,280 James, you think this is going to be so fast? 152 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,160 Like this is going to be 1 and 2:11. 153 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,480 I was like, no, not with this pedigree. 154 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,920 And she was right. I should have listened, but the 155 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,960 plan of attack for Nathan and another one of our athletes in 156 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,160 the field was Tess Fu, was that they were going to just ride the 157 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,480 front of the pack and race within themselves. 158 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,960 And and if it goes out a little bit slower, just run with them 159 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,000 because we knew that they had the leg speed to be able to 160 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,440 handle anything on the back end. You know, with Nathan's ability, 161 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,320 with his concepts, with his strength of power, I, I really 162 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,440 wasn't too worried about him finishing strong. 163 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,040 But I really didn't think when, when that gentleman had a lead 164 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,000 of a minute and 53 seconds AT30K that there was any hope that 165 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,080 anybody was going to get him. I just thought it was over. 166 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,840 However, there was a few things hope going on in this race, 167 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,400 right? We all know that there was a 168 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,640 misdirection. We get that. 169 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,640 And that's tragic for, for, for Michael, but there was some 170 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,600 strategy at play too. I didn't see him take a single 171 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,720 bottle of personal calories. All I saw him grab was just cups 172 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,120 of water along the way. And that was a pretty big 173 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,040 mistake. You know, you're running pretty 174 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,560 hard in the heat. And I knew that Nathan and I 175 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:33,400 have worked really hard on him understanding that he can't miss 176 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,040 any bottles and that if he does miss a bottle, he's going to 177 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,360 carry extra gels on him just in case. 178 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,840 And so when I kept with him, I said, how'd the bottle placement 179 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,160 go? How did how did the nutrition 180 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,320 strategy guys coach? I didn't miss a single bottle. 181 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,640 I got it all and I was like, OK, you know, I, I knew that he did 182 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,720 everything he needed to do to be sharp and be focused or by the 183 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,720 final 5K and, and, and you know it, it worked out in his favor. 184 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,160 That's nice. And I'm, I'm going to go into 185 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,960 that whole nutrition segue when we talk about our next athlete. 186 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,120 But you mentioned about the LA Marathon. 187 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,440 Obviously we knew it was going to be a hot one. 188 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,720 For those particular athletes that you had in there, did you 189 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,440 tell them, hey, take your foot off the pedal for the first few 190 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,920 miles or did you just say stay with the pack? 191 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,320 I, I was very comfortable that if the pack went out fast, it'd 192 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,840 be fine. I was very comfortable that if 193 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,720 the pack went out slow that they would be able to compete with 194 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,680 anybody because I knew the leg speed and the power that they 195 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:29,680 had just because their training has been going so well. 196 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:34,280 I mean, Nathan, he ran a 10K workout in a fart like version. 197 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,760 No back and forth, working hard and recovering. 198 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,800 His 10K was 2930 in a workout like that when I was like, well, 199 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,000 I mean, for some of these guys, that's their racing 10K speed. 200 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,160 So for him it's like, yeah, no, I I knew we had the power. 201 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,040 Sometimes I yell at him going too fast in some of the speed 202 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,520 sessions just because I he can drop A564400 meter. 203 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,040 Repetition at the end of 20 by 400 is well, I just felt good so 204 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:07,200 I went. You're coaching them something 205 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,200 about that whole negative split that I wanted to talk about. 206 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,640 I'm trying to figure out what our listeners can pull out of 207 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,800 Nathan's story. I know every athlete is very 208 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,440 different, but what do you coach them about? 209 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,280 This whole negative split thing and having this much power to to 210 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,000 be driving it in like that in the end. 211 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:30,160 It's a lesson that I learned the hard way personally, that you 212 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,520 shouldn't bank time. You can't often negative split 213 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,200 in a marathon if you didn't dial in your nutrition. 214 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,040 So you have to have the calories in your body to be able to, to 215 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,320 utilize the power that you do have. 216 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,840 So they, they kind of work hand in hand. 217 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,720 But you know, I really don't care the positioning of somebody 218 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,040 in the 1st 10K and the 1st 15K of a race, the 1st 6 or 9 miles 219 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,600 or even the 1st 13 miles, first half marathon of a race. 220 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,360 I want them to have the best opportunity to have the fastest 221 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,000 final 10K, the fastest final five Ki want that portion uphill 222 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,280 or downhill. I want that portion to be the 223 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,240 best race that they can run. And when that comes together, 224 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,480 man, those athletes feel great. They're passing people, they're 225 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,400 having fun. They're not even like so, so 226 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,200 focused on their pace per mile. They're, they've given 227 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,720 themselves a chance to be powerful and, and they're just 228 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,600 going after it. And, and we saw that with 229 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,520 Nathan, we saw that with Julia at the World Championships. 230 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,680 We've seen that with Tabello and multiple races where he's run 231 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,520 incredible, especially at the Olympics. 232 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,840 You know it, it's this concept of if you do the right things 233 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,600 early, you're going to you're going to have the benefit of 234 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,280 having the energy at the end. Which that is such a hard thing 235 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,480 to learn for everyone, right? Because the pacing, right? 236 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,640 How old do you coach someone to pace when a race is 26 miles 237 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,120 long but you never really do that distance in practice? 238 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,000 Yeah, the training, the training should tell you where you're at, 239 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:00,880 right. So I, I've talked about this 240 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,840 with my professional runners and and my citizen runners. 241 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,560 The training lets us know what we should anticipate. 242 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:12,320 We're not going to be wrong by 10 minutes unless it's 243 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,240 unforeseen weather circumstance and we just didn't know or you, 244 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,960 you had the flu, like right. Like we're not going to. 245 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,520 If you're, if you're a three hour marathoner, if that's what 246 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,800 your training really says, you're probably not running 248. 247 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,120 If you're a three hour marathoner and you go off in 248 248 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,400 or faster, you're probably not running three. 249 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,120 You're probably going to be running three 10320. 250 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,600 You're probably going to pay the price on the back end. 251 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,520 The training lets you know where you are. 252 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,800 So we focus a lot on the idea of understanding how fast you 253 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,280 should be recovering depending on the workout, right? 254 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:53,120 Like for example, if you're running 5 miles at marathon 255 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,680 pace, true marathon ability and that marathon ability is 7 256 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:02,160 minute mile and you absolutely cannot run faster than 8 1/2 257 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,560 minutes to recover for the next mile or for the next 5. 258 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,280 You're not really a 7 minute mile marathoner. 259 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,680 That gap really should be closer to 45 seconds to a minute. 260 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,720 So the training that we build, one of the key workouts that I 261 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,840 do is maybe 3 by 4 miles or three by 5 miles at marathon 262 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,520 with a mile recovery in between, where I'm looking at the 263 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,160 recovery pace more than I'm looking at the marathon pace. 264 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,480 How fast was the recovery? And that lets me know what 265 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,400 they're really feeling. On top of the concept of how 266 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,280 many gels did you take in, How was your your food the morning 267 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,640 of and the night before? What, what was your electrolyte 268 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,480 concept? They all play a role together. 269 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,600 But in terms of pacing, the pacing really does tell the 270 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,800 story. But if you can't take, say you 271 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,080 hit your pacing, but oh coach, like I hit my paces, but man, I 272 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,800 couldn't digest any of my fuel. And that happens over and over 273 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,840 and over again. Well, that lets me know as a 274 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,560 coach that that's also not marathon ability. 275 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,280 They're running way too fast because you should be able to 276 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,360 digest 3 or 4 gels every hour. Once one gel every 15 to 20 277 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,840 minutes, you should be able to digest that. 278 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,120 You know about a hundred 120 calories every 15 to 20 minutes. 279 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560 If you can't, well, you're probably running too fast. 280 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,600 So these conversations happen over time so we know exactly 281 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,840 what to expect on race. Day and I'm glad that you're 282 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,480 talking about this because I'm going to use Daniel Mesfun as 283 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,480 the next example, which kind of triggered me to realize that you 284 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,880 really are into the whole nutrition thing, probably more 285 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,040 so than many other coaches. So Daniel Mesfun is a runner who 286 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,280 ran the Dublin Marathon last October and his video on 287 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,840 Instagram went viral after he missed a bottle. 288 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,960 And then instead of continuing on with the pack, he actually 289 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,160 ran back and was like what the hell? 290 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,120 And was looking for his bottle and found his bottle and then 291 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,120 ended up turning it around and winning the race, which was 292 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,720 bonkers. That happened to him twice in 293 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,400 the race that happened to him at the 20 K and it happened to him 294 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:07,640 at the 40K and both times he stopped the 20 K was the biggest 295 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,160 one. Like he's like he's going back 296 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,080 and forth in between. He's like, where's my bottle? 297 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,280 Where's my bottle? And finally, like a volunteer at 298 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,200 the bottle station tossed him his bottle and and so he's 299 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,600 behind by 20 seconds at the halfway point. 300 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,680 And again he's running against guys that are two O 620-7208 301 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,880 guys. And at that time he had only run 302 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,960 210. So it's not like he's running 303 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,000 against athletes that he's that much better than he was. 304 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,120 If anything, he was just as good as, but that specific day, the 305 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,680 weather played a lot of role in if your bottles were on the 306 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,320 table because it was so windy and the wind was knocking them 307 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,440 off the table placement, they weren't always in the right spot 308 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,320 because if the bottles fell off the table, a volunteer just 309 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,360 picked up the bottle and put it onto the table and maybe not in 310 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,960 the right position. So he's like running, you know, 311 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,560 for Daniel, who had prior to my coaching and prior to our 312 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,400 working together, he'd only taken one gel in every marathon 313 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,480 that he ran. No one ever taught him, no one 314 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,680 ever taught him. So even with just a basic 315 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,319 education of why it's so important, he can, he can have 316 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,640 all this chaos happen. And it was, it was my wife said, 317 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,920 and it made me feel really good. You can literally see James, you 318 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,680 can see the coaching in his decision making while he was 319 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,200 running. And that made me feel good 320 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,760 because it's kind of like what I felt, but I, I couldn't 321 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,200 articulate that. And I could see him make the 322 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,160 decision to I'm not skipping this bottle. 323 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,280 I'm not skipping this bottle. I'm going to take it. 324 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,320 And so turns around and goes to get it and he ends up having the 325 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,760 legs to win the race. And then he did it again, you 326 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,400 said at the 40 mile mark, I mean, I'm sorry, 40 kilometer 327 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,640 mark. Yeah, the 40K is the is the kind 328 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,240 of the finish table, right even. With two kilometers to go, yeah, 329 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,240 it's that important. It's that. 330 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,200 Oh, absolutely. Because what ends up even your 331 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,920 brain, your brain, it's not so much, maybe it's not so much for 332 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,400 the glycogen depletion, but your brain has a governor, right? 333 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,520 And if you're nearing the edge of your ability like these 334 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,680 professional marathoners are, or even three hour, 3 1/2 hour 335 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:14,240 marathoners are, if your final gel is at like 35 kilometers, 336 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,880 you still have 7.2 kilometers to go. 337 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,760 That's a long time, even for a professional runner. 338 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,920 That's closer to 20 minutes. You're at the edge. 339 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,160 You're you're you're driving. Your brain is telling you you're 340 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,560 hurting. Please slow down. 341 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,080 Please slow down. Please slow down. 342 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,960 Introducing a little bit of sugar has been shown, even if 343 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,400 you don't swallow, it has been shown to relax your central 344 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,880 nervous system and allow you to push through some of that. 345 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,040 All right. So, yeah, I, I my rule. 346 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,480 I was texting one of my athletes, Neil from Ireland 347 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,280 today. He lives in Dublin. 348 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,280 My rule is McCurdy athletes don't skip fuel. 349 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,680 Like we just don't. And he's, he's trying to run a 4 350 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,400 hour marathon. He's I don't care what pace 351 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,640 you're running. We do not skip. 352 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,960 OK, so then let's let's break that down a little bit for our 353 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,160 audience and to see how or what we can take away from all this. 354 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,440 Don't skip fuel, but how do we know how to feed ourselves? 355 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,480 Obviously somebody is running a 2 hour marathon is going to be 356 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,080 fueling a little bit different. And then you also mentioned 357 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,960 these crazy amounts of gels that people take within one hour. 358 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,200 How do you even get trained? Yeah, it it. 359 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,240 It starts with practice, right? So you know, your, your 90 360 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,920 minute runs, your two hour runs, your two and a half hour runs. 361 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,000 Even my 5 hour marathoners aren't running more than 362 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,000 generally 2 hours, 2 or sorry, 2 1/2 hours, 2 hours and 40 363 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,600 minutes. So my rule of thumb is if an 364 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,480 athlete starting at one gel every 45 minutes, because that's 365 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,920 what the gel might say, Goo gel, for example, might tell you 01 366 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,560 gel every 40, that's not enough. So if you, if that's where you 367 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,040 are, get to 1 gel every 30 minutes, get used to that and 368 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,680 then get to 1 gel every 25 and then try to get to 1 gel every 369 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,600 20. And that becomes, you know, for 370 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,080 the, for the masses, the citizen runners, that becomes about 371 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,840 carrying capacity. What can you physically carry on 372 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,800 your body, right? So making sure that you have 373 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,600 shorts that have pockets, maybe even a little flip belt that you 374 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,600 can carry gels women could use take advantage of their sports 375 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:09,840 bras. There's a lot of different 376 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,160 aspects to be able to carry your gels and your electrolytes on 377 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,880 you. So that you have enough and it 378 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,440 wasn't if ultra marathoners, some of the best ultra 379 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,400 marathoners in the world are running so fast with a with a 380 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,840 vest. Yeah, we, we, we can too for a 381 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,840 four hour marathon, right. So like, don't, don't be gun 382 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,160 shy. Get a vest, get carry what it is 383 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,880 you need right. And then now I was pacing an 384 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,600 athlete in the Indianapolis half marathon. 385 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,560 No, no, sorry. Indianapolis Marathon. 386 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,680 And I was running 15 1/2 to 16 miles with her and I, I didn't 387 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,760 have bottle support, but at the time, it was long enough of a 388 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,920 run for me that I knew I needed my calories and my fluids 389 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,760 because I was training for a marathon too. 390 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,120 And so I bought myself one of those belts that had three 391 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,640 bottles on the side and I can carry my gels and I can have all 392 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,280 the fluids that I wanted to have. 393 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,400 And when I was done with it, I just tossed it at an 8 station. 394 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,680 It, it wasn't a waste of money. It helped me have a great 395 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,400 experience as a pacer. It helped me have all the, the 396 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,680 calories I needed and all the fluids I need because I'm a 397 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,800 sweater. And, and so it helped, it helped 398 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,440 me really understand or, or, or, or execute the plan I needed. 399 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,920 I think three hour, 3 1/2, four 5-6 hour marathoners could, 400 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,600 should be taking an advantage of these concepts and, and buy what 401 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,400 it is you need. Don't rely only on the race. 402 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,680 All right, you have a race where they, you know, the 1st, the aid 403 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,800 station they're giving you a gel is like mile 7 or mile 9. 404 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,720 It's like, well, that's fine, I guess if you're running 5 minute 405 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,080 miles, that's like 35 minutes into the race. 406 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,200 But again, you're a professional if that's the case. 407 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,440 What if you're going 10 minute miles and now all of a sudden 408 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,560 that's 70 minutes before the first time you even get a gel 409 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,960 from the race? Don't let that be the first. 410 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,040 Carry it on you. And for your athletes or for 411 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,440 your for your company, do you have a preference in jails or 412 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,040 are you kind of just guiding runners to try out whatever 413 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,640 works for them? We, we partnered with Precision 414 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,640 Fuel and Hydration this past year. 415 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,720 And the reason we partnered with them is because for 2 1/2 years 416 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,680 we had been using that from our for our professional runners 417 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,040 just like anybody else would. And we tested it and tested it 418 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,360 and tested it and tried it and we really enjoyed the success 419 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:28,520 that we've been seeing with our professional runners. 420 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,240 And then kind of slowly trickle down to the athletes trying to 421 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,440 break 3 and slowly trickled it down to the athletes trying to 422 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,720 BQ right. And so we felt incredibly 423 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,600 comfortable and confident. I sat with the owner, one of the 424 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,080 Co founders, Andy Blow. I sat with him to talk with him 425 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,280 about his company before we made a decision that we were going to 426 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,840 partner with them. So we've been exclusively with 427 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,440 Precision Fuel and Hydration for a little less than a year, maybe 428 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,000 9 or 10 months. But we've been using them 429 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,440 honestly and nobody else for about 2 1/2 to three years. 430 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,080 Oh, OK, yeah, I looked that one up. 431 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,400 Yeah, it honestly, it's a, it's a fantastic concept now that 432 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,160 their, their belief in fueling and hydration is a little bit 433 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,040 different than other companies. And I really liked their vision, 434 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,240 their scope, their, their adaptability to athletes of all 435 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,080 different levels. Nathan in particular is a really 436 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,480 good one. Nathan doesn't, he doesn't lose 437 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,920 a lot of electrolytes in his sweat. 438 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,280 We actually tested this. We tested how much sweat volume 439 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,760 in, in liters, he loses an hour. And we tested that sweat for how 440 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,280 much electrolytes he loses. And he loses a fair amount of 441 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,600 sweat, but he loses very little electrolytes. 442 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,400 Well, precision fuel and hydration as a as a solution for 443 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,000 that. Whereas one of my other 444 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,920 athletes, Dan Montgomery, one of our coaches, he loses 1800 445 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,760 milligrams of electrolytes every hour. 446 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,760 It's like, wow, that's a lot and you're not trying to replace all 447 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,760 of that. But his solution for replacement 448 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,600 is very different than Nathan's. And we really like how precision 449 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,360 works within the confines of the individual and doesn't have a 450 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,280 blanket solution for for anybody. 451 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:07,680 Oh, that's interesting. OK. 452 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,920 So it's not just a gel, it's a different ingredients or 453 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,400 different amounts of ingredients. 454 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,560 The gel is the gel that's calories, right? 455 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,480 Grams of carbs per hour, if you will. 456 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,720 I hate that concept. I like just how many calories is 457 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,720 a gel and their gels are 120 calories. 458 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,160 It's wonderful. But they also have electrolyte 459 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,440 tablets for water and they have electrolyte capsules if you 460 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,840 don't have bottles of water that you can also carry on you. 461 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,520 So every 20 or 30 minutes you can take 250 milligrams of 462 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,400 electrolyte, just like a salt tablet or a salt chew, very 463 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,880 similar concept. So depending on what you need 464 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,040 individually, you can pop those and you can take your gels and 465 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,720 water along the way. Nice. 466 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,880 That's, that's nice. OK, we'll we'll definitely look 467 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,360 into precision. Yeah. 468 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,280 And I guess kind of along the same lines about philosophies. 469 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,240 I know that your coaching philosophy is that not 470 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,960 one-size-fits-all. I'm pretty sure you're not a 471 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:11,000 huge fan of coaches that use these training plans that give 472 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,120 athletes 4 weeks out. I mean, I guess you know, 473 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,680 something can work for anyone if you don't have any big goals. 474 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,800 But if you really truly, if you truly want to improve your 475 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680 running, how do you guys approach that? 476 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,920 How does your coaching work? Because I know you coach not 477 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,320 just professional athletes, you also coach the lay runners. 478 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:32,280 Yeah, I think our, I hate the, I hate the phrase business model, 479 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,520 but for lack of a better one, in this immediate moment, our 480 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,440 business model is one-on-one coaching to the athlete. 481 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,480 You know, we have a fair amount of coaches around the country. 482 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,320 We work with athletes all over the world and we don't employ 483 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,600 pre made training concepts. We don't do that, but we don't 484 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,440 employ AI to write the training. I think that's garbage. 485 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,960 I mean, listen, there's a lot of people out there that find 486 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,560 success in completion using pre made programs. 487 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,520 AI got them to be able to finish X and I think that's wonderful. 488 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,440 I think it's a great foot in the door for a lot of people. 489 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,920 And for some people they don't even want that one-on-one 490 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,600 relationship with the coach. That's great, that's fine. 491 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,200 So you have an option. But what I am passionate about, 492 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,440 what I really love about what we do is that my athletes can can 493 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,320 text me, all right? And we can actually have a 494 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,440 conversation. My athlete, Caitlin was having 495 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,320 some work stuff happened this week. 496 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,360 And hey, coach like I, I just, I'm not going to do the long run 497 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,640 today. How are we going to adjust? 498 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,360 OK, let's just sit down. Let's analyze what we can do for 499 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:40,560 the next 10 days. You know, coaching to me isn't 500 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,040 just about the workouts on the page. 501 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,880 It's about that, that back and forth. 502 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,720 It's about that communication. Everybody needs something a 503 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,880 little bit different and not always at the same level week by 504 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,480 week or month by month, you know, there's different seasons 505 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,520 of life. But the idea that AI is going to 506 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,720 replace coaching, it's I guess it depends on what your 507 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,560 definite, the definition of coaching is. 508 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,200 You know, my definition of coaching is this, this 509 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,400 relationship that they work together. 510 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,280 It's really hard to have a relationship with ChatGPT. 511 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,200 And that's what I was saying, you know, if you're, if your 512 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,240 goal is a completion of something and you don't have 513 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,400 any, you know, true improvement goals, I think it can work. 514 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,960 I've used it to just finish a marathon and and get ready. 515 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,800 At the same time, you have to use your brain and not trust 516 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,920 everything it says because kind of of what you were saying, you 517 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,680 were talking about Nathan earlier and saying that you had 518 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,760 to figure out what he really needed as a human, which that's 519 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,520 impossible. So you're coaching. 520 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,760 Does everyone get to experience that, no matter at what level? 521 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,040 Tell us a little bit about how you couple of people with what 522 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,640 coaches and what goes into. That process, yeah, the 523 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,000 anticipation that the hope is that an athlete is with us and 524 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,640 they have a pretty good relationship development over 525 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,720 time with with their athletes, with their coaches. 526 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,040 And so it takes time to learn about a runner. 527 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,000 It takes time to learn about what's happening in their life. 528 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,640 I was talking with an athlete today who lives in Canada and 529 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,120 you know, he, his mission is to break 3 hours. 530 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:13,360 He's a ways away from that and he's got a lot of life things 531 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:15,360 happening, a lot of responsibilities happening in 532 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,240 his life. And we had a real good heart to 533 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,680 heart on the phone today about, hey, listen, like here are some 534 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,000 examples of some things that are going on in these people's 535 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,880 lives. And this is what we're doing to 536 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,480 go around it. This is what I think you need to 537 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,800 be doing. How does that feel to you? 538 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,600 You know, how can we make what I'm telling you make sense for 539 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,920 your life? And is that reasonable to expect 540 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,800 or should we reassess some of these goals that you might have? 541 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,440 Dan Montgomery actually did. The coach, an athlete I was 542 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,320 talking about a little bit earlier, his first marathon was 543 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,840 five hours and 8 minutes. I think he's about ready to run 544 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,920 three O 7, three O 6 in my marathon that I'm hosting in 545 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,760 just 2 1/2 weeks. He's 50 years old. 546 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,800 He's been with me for 8:00 or actually 9 plus years now. 547 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,320 And he's on the cusp of running his greatest marathon ever, 548 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,440 maybe by 2025 minutes. And I'm so excited. 549 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,360 I can't wait to be there for him and I just hope he gets the 550 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,160 chance and we got some good weather for him to, to, to see 551 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,480 that happen. But we've had the ups and downs, 552 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,880 though it hasn't, it hasn't been like the steady decline of, of, 553 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,280 of pace. It's, it's, you know, we, it, 554 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,680 it's been a lot of, hey, let's get on the phone, let's talk, 555 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,800 let's have, let's have a good conversation about what's really 556 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,480 happening and what we can do differently, what you can do 557 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,920 differently and how, how I might be able to present training. 558 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,760 You know, there's no, I don't think there's a systemized 559 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,800 approach. And so the coach that I have on 560 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,440 staff, we don't take a systemized approach. 561 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,560 We don't, we don't believe in this concept of this is exactly 562 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,400 how I train. So either fit the mold or get 563 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,720 out. That's not how we operate. 564 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,040 I love this. I can see, I can see how that 565 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,280 definitely could work. I was so lucky when I first 566 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,760 started trying to run my boss, my Boston qualifier. 567 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,720 I met a coach who lives close by. 568 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,160 He's a retired elite runner from the 80s run tab, and he took me 569 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,800 under his wing and treated me like I was an elite athlete. 570 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,240 In the beginning it was odd, right, because you had never 571 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,160 seen this type of coaching before. 572 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,480 But then it really helps your confidence as well, so that's 573 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,520 pretty amazing. Yeah, it's fun. 574 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:21,360 Like my athlete Leslie, 69 years old, She just lost her, her best 575 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,800 friend, her pet cat just yesterday. 576 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,600 And so, like, we have to adjust, right? 577 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,760 Like, and so, you know, our coach, am I going to be able to 578 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,320 get to Boston? You know, like, yeah, you're 579 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,080 going to be fine. Like, we're going to be OK. 580 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,680 You know, we'll, we'll make some adaptations. 581 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,960 We'll adjust. But she's 69 years old and I 582 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,360 think she could break 330, you know, and she's running faster 583 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,680 now than she was 20 years ago, almost as fast as she was 30 584 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,920 years ago. And I, and I'm so excited and 585 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,240 it's, it's this idea that like everybody deserves a shot. 586 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,960 Everybody deserves a shot. It's yours. 587 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,080 You got, you have the A+. It's up to you to keep it right. 588 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,880 Like everybody deserves a shot. And I'm not going to presuppose 589 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,320 your ability or, or the expectation of your development. 590 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,400 I have no idea. You know, let's find out. 591 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,000 Let's let's see what. Happens right, right no, I I 592 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,000 love your approach and you can truly tell how passionate you 593 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,200 are are you going to have a lot of people running Boston this 594 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,560 year so. Boston's always an interesting 595 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,800 every season for me. I know this is this will be my 596 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,120 10th year as a coach in Boston. And my first year, 2016, and I 597 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,160 had eight personal athletes in the race. 598 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,840 And this year I thought I had like 6 or 7. 599 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,320 But what ended up happening was I had a bunch of athletes like 600 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,240 register for Boston as like their secondary spring race 601 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,720 because they wanted to do Tokyo or Myrtle Beach or a few other 602 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,760 events, right? And my brain goes to like the 603 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,280 first event, like, OK, we are training for Tokyo. 604 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,400 And my, all my coaching energy is on you having the best Tokyo 605 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,680 experience that you can possibly have. 606 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,320 And I don't want to talk about any of the races until that 607 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,360 event's over. And I know that you're healthy. 608 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,960 So we can then figure out what we're going to do next. 609 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,160 And so I have like 6 athletes along the way like, Oh yeah, by 610 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,440 the way, I'm doing, I'm doing Boston like some of my God. 611 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,960 So turns out I've got, I did the math yesterday or, or this 612 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,960 morning. I've got 15 that'll be, that'll 613 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,560 be running Boston. And I've got four men in the 614 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:26,480 professional field. And then I've got 11 that will 615 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,680 be anywhere from 2:40 on the women's side, 2:30 on the men's 616 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,800 side, all the way to like 5 1/2 hours. 617 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,280 That's amazing. That's amazing. 618 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,440 We wish you good luck with that. I'm sure that they are in Excel 619 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,560 and I'm sure I will see you at the conference in Boston as 620 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:49,280 well. All right, thank you, James so 621 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,680 much for speaking with me. I learned a ton and I hope you 622 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,440 guys did too. Nutrition is very, very 623 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,880 important for all of us. And if we can enhance our 624 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,840 running by giving the right nutrition to our body, who 625 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,320 knows, maybe a new PR is insight after all. 626 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,480 I guess with that, I'm going to segue to just two couple of 627 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,120 things actually that are running news. 628 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,240 If you guys are done listening to this, thank you so much for 629 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,720 tuning in. For those of you that want to 630 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,040 stay on for the running news, I'm going to make it real brief. 631 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,920 Talking about nutrition, Emma Bates who used to be a long term 632 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,080 sponsored athlete of the brand You Can was dropped by the 633 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,680 brand. You Can says that they did not 634 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,960 renew their contract despite Emma Bates allegations. 635 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,680 Emma Bates is saying that she was dropped because she is now 636 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,320 pregnant. It's a very, very difficult 637 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,320 topic. Obviously all these runners are 638 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,760 also independent contractors so contracts expire, but that 639 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,000 allegation has been all over the Internet. 640 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,880 And if it is true, then that's obviously a very sad thing for a 641 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,040 brand to do. And if it's not, then hopefully 642 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,560 you know they will be able to prove their case and show that 643 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,680 they did not drop her despite her pregnancy or because of her 644 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,440 pregnancy, but that they did want to drop her despite her 645 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,120 pregnancy all along, which is in essence what they are saying. 646 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,800 Some more running news. Clayton Young, who used to be a 647 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,360 sponsored athlete of ASICS, has also severed ties with his 648 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,840 sponsor and is now sponsored by Brooks, even though there seems 649 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,320 to be no drama going on with that. 650 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,600 And that is basically it for the week. 651 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,719 Thank you guys so much for tuning in. 652 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,040 If you have any episode requests, topic requests, reach 653 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,360 out to me. You can reach me at 654 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,639 letty@marathonjournal.com and we can come up with something. 655 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,199 I always like to hear what our listeners like to listen to. 656 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,679 All right. And with that, have a great week 657 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:52,679 of running. You've been listening to the 658 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:54,760 Marathon Running Podcast by Marathon Journal. 659 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,560 If you've enjoyed the show, check us out at 660 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,480 marathonjournal.com or follow us on social media. 661 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:01,600 Happy training.