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I don't know if this is going to
be controversial, but have you 

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ever been listening to, let's 
say, R&B, right? 

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And then you look at all the 
girls who are doing R&B, for 

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example, even the guys and all 
of them just somehow by luck, 

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all of them seem to just 
miraculously all be attractive. 

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I don't know if you've ever not.
Been attractive? 

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Have you ever? 
It's incredible, especially 

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conventional. 
Right. 

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Yo, what's up guys? 
And welcome to episode 138 of 

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the 30% podcast. 
I go by the name AFA Mefina. 

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My Co host goes by the name Sam 
Jedediah Ari and we are the 30% 

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podcast, a podcast dedicated to 
Kenyan music where we talk about

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what's happening, what's 
popping, and we give you our 

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insight from the perspective of 
two Kenyan music producers. 

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Sam, what you up to? 
Actually, before you tell us 

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what you're up to, I have a 
question for you. 

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So. 
So I want to ask you this 

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question. 
It's a philosophical ish type. 

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Of fun. 
OK, I love me some philosophy. 

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No, it's not philosophical. 
No, no, no, no. 

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It's actually not philosophical 
like that, but like it's a would

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you rather, but would you rather
as a kind of like philosophical 

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questions. 
If you think about it anyway, 

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would you rather be on death row
for a crime that you did not 

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commit? 
No. 

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And the most important person in
your life is free, but they 

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committed the crime. 
So whoever the most important 

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person in your life is like, 
maybe it's your mom who 

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committed the crime, but you're 
on death row for that in her 

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place. 
Or would you rather be free? 

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No, wait, hold on. 
Or would you rather be free and 

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the most important person in 
your life is on death row for a 

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crime you committed? 
If. 

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You commit the crime, you do the
time. 

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That's it, man. 
I'm so sorry. 

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Like, yeah, you did something 
terrible. 

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Listen, I love you with all my 
heart. 

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I would bring you. 
What do you call commissary? 

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I'll, I'll, I'll help you out. 
But you you have to go sit down,

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man. 
Go. 

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Go sit and just think about make
better choices. 

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So you would. 
You would, so you wouldn't be on

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death row on behalf of the most 
important person in your life. 

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That doesn't make sense, no. 
Like if you had a child. 

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So if you had a child, let's say
you had a child, you only. 

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Child, I don't like this because
it's going to make me sound 

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terrible. 
It's going to make me sound 

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terrible. 
I had an only child and that 

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only child decided to do OK. 
Did this only child asking the 

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question? 
No did this only child did they 

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caught like when he was out with
a gang and and they it was 

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annoying. 
He did the crime knowingly. 

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It's not like something was 
pinned on him. 

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He actually didn't knowingly. 
No, listen, listen. 

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We're not even getting into 
specifics. 

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No, we have to get into 
specifics because I'm not going 

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to sit down on on, on a very 
unspecific issue. 

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I'm not going to. 
I'm not going to lose my life. 

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We're not doing that for 
unspecifics. 

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No, we have to get into 
specifics. 

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No, listen, Hey, you do the 
crime, you do that. 

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So you, you wow, really? 
So which, which option would you

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rather then? 
So you'd rather the second one, 

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somebody sitting in for a crime 
that you committed? 

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You know you only have two 
options here. 

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Only if I don't know about it. 
If I know about it, then yeah, 

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I've done the time. 
No. 

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You know about it. 
You know about it, you know. 

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This will never happen in real 
life. 

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Like if I've done the crime, I'm
not just going to let someone, 

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the guilt will kill me. 
Are you kidding me? 

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Someone is on death row for 
something I did and I know about

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it and I'm just sitting around 
and, and this it's someone who I

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know and love. 
That's not going to happen. 

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The guilt will absolutely die 
before that person is is sits on

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that chair. 
I'll, I'll be done. 

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So essentially what you're 
saying is you'd rather the first

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option, which is sitting in for 
somebody who's important to you?

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No. 
If they did the crime, no. 

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You only have two options. 
Some this is, some you only have

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two. 
Would you rather this is the 

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problem with would you rather 
though that's such imperfect 

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scenarios, like it doesn't make 
much sense. 

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There's such imperfect 
scenarios. 

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Yeah, no. 
Because it's meant no, because 

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it's meant to put you on in like
on the spot. 

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That's why. 
That's why would you rather. 

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Putting me on two different 
spots at work. 

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That's not how this works. 
That's not how there's no OK 

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what would you rather do? 
That's how would you rather? 

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Oh, I, I, no, I would rather sit
in for the person who I love, 

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like who's the most important to
me. 

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Yeah, I'd, I'd, I'd take that 
charge, man. 

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Oh, like if we're talking about 
the two options, like I'm not 

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going to like, like be free when
I know somebody. 

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All right, let's. 
Let's like who I love is sitting

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in. 
Let's make this interesting. 

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You just won the lottery, $600 
million. 

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OK, no one knows it but. 
You million or billion? 

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No mill 600 million or billion 
that's. 

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OK, let's let's make it, let's 
make it a light 200 billion, 

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just a light very light 200, a 
very light achievable 200 

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billion, right? 
So you just you just stumbled on

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that Elon Musk just slid you a 
couple of dollars, right And 

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then, OK. 
Let's not make it Elon, because 

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I don't like that guy. 
But OK, 200 billion, I'm I'm on 

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board. 
I'm on board. 

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Not Elon. 
Then pick a random Kenyan 

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billionaire and that your love 
don't commit a crime and then 

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you have to go sit down for it. 
But you can't give this money to

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them. 
It's either you spend it or it 

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doesn't get spent at all. 
Are you still going to sit down 

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or would you would you prefer? 
Wait, what's your question? 

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Would you? 
Would you still? 

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Prefer that option or would you 
would you rather be outside and 

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spend your money? 
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold 

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on, hold on. 
So wait, I just want to get the 

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question right. 
So I I got 200 billion. 

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It's the same scenario you 
asked. 

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Me. 
The only difference is you have 

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money. 
You just got 200, Bill. 

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Oh, I don't want death row for 
life. 

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Yeah, I mean, death row is like 
that. 

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I mean. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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You don't get, you don't get 
easy. 

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They definitely won't give you 
that to you. 

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There's nothing you can buy in 
prison for that much. 

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So yeah, that money is just 
going to waste. 

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Away and I and I can't pass on 
that money. 

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No, no. 
You. 

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You can't. 
If anyone else knows about that 

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money, it's gone. 
And I'm sitting in for 

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something. 
Just say, just just say you're 

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going to be out. 
No, no, no. 

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Just say you're going to be. 
I'm sitting in. 

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No, Sam, I'm sitting in for 
something that they did. 

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Yeah, no, no spending the money.
I told you all you need to do, 

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All you need to do is throw in 
some money and it makes these 

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choices way easier. 
Would you rather it would be a 

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lot easier to just bring some 
amount into it? 

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That's that's crazy, but it's 
facts though. 

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Thanks for being. 
On I'm so ashamed at how I've 

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switched off, but I'm I'm so 
yeah. 

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Yeah, myself. 
Now we know what you value. 

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Bringing me if. 
You want affirm to do anything? 

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For you, no what? 
Look what you're. 

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Doing D hem in DM1 with a with 
with an amount and D. 

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Hem, yeah. 
D Hem. 

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Let's all make fun of something 
D Hem. 

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No, not after your moral, your 
moral. 

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Some have you been? 
Have you what you what you've 

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been up to, man? 
Yeah, I've been cool staying 

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outside of the snow. 
Well, it's not snowing, but it 

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feels like it. 
It's terribly cold and I've, 

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yeah, just been chilling on on 
Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday,

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Wednesday, I was outside. 
I was outside. 

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The legendary Flyer was playing 
Love Flyer. 

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His his. 
I think he's a very he's a very 

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conscious musician. 
His lyrics are always laden with

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truth and activism and 
something. 

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And meaning? 
And meaning, yes, so and he 

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doesn't do much shows. 
So once I heard that he was he 

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was out at the Beer District on 
this past Wednesday. 

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So it was cool. 
I got there a little bit late 

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just because I'm so sorry. 
I underestimated. 

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I was like, OK, I'm going to go 
there and you know it's going to

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be light. 
I'm just going to find a spot. 

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I got there and that place was 
packed. 

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Flyer had everyone outside. 
It was such a cool thing to see 

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though. 
Just seeing his growth and then 

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everyone who was rocking with 
him, singing his songs word for 

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word and everything like that 
was that was amazing. 

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So shout out to him. 
So that's what I was doing that 

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I tried to go out for that. 
I wanted to go out for Lisa and 

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Chris Bars, 2 musicians who I 
absolutely love. 

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They they had a show, I want to 
say maybe it was Thursday, 

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Thursday or Friday, I don't 
remember. 

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I wanted to go for that, but I 
couldn't. 

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I felt so bummed by that. 
But I'm just trying to go, 

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trying to go for more shows and 
see more artists outside as well

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as DJs and whatnot. 
So yeah, that's really what I've

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been up to. 
Apart from that, nothing else 

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interesting. 
I've been watching Married at 

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First Sight. 
I don't know whether that's 

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interesting enough. 
It's such an interesting show. 

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Like it's, it's just, it's. 
What is it about? 

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It's it's exactly what it is. 
Married at first sight, where 

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the first time they it's 
reality. 

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You meet your wife or husband 
for the first time when you're 

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marrying them, and then you go. 
Hey, Sam, Sam, listen, listen, 

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00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,080
listen. 
Only one podcaster at a time is 

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00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,760
allowed to watch reality TV. 
We're giving. 

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00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,760
No, I don't watch a lot of 
reality TV. 

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00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,320
It's just Married at First 
Sight, it's Survivor, and it's 

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00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,160
Amazing Race. 
All the others are kind of 

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00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,640
ridiculous to me. 
Your survivor. 

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00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,720
No survivor bangs man. 
Survivor is actually low key 

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00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,000
very underrated. 
It's. 

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00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:37,760
Good, I didn't know you were a 
survivor. 

200
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,040
I'm a huge survivor. 
You're a. 

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00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,040
Survivor first wait. 
It's it's I stopped watching it 

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00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,200
though because started making me
feel bad because people are so 

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00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,760
vindictive. 
I feel I feel negative energy 

204
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,240
when they just backstab each 
other in blind side. 

205
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,840
I just feel bad because it's 
like why? 

206
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,880
And they're starving. 
What was your starving bro? 

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00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,400
What was your favorite season? 
Real quick, what's your 

208
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,840
favorite? 
I don't know what my favorites. 

209
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,400
Ah man, I might have to do some 
some research. 

210
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,920
Mine has to be season Season 20 
Heroes versus villains. 

211
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,880
Mine is the one that one was is 
the one with poverty. 

212
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,120
That's what it was do. 
You remember poverty, The 

213
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,440
legendary poverty. 
Oh, Pavati, Pavati. 

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00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,320
The, the, the, yeah, I think 
that's season. 

215
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,560
I believe that's like season 16.
Yeah, something like that. 

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00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,560
My my other favorite season. 
And then we I promise you guys, 

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00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,640
this is a music industry 
podcast. 

218
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,520
But then I think my favorite 
season is the one for what was 

219
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,720
his name? 
He was such a likable guy. 

220
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,080
He wore glasses. 
I found it. 

221
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,960
My favorite season was I think 
it was the David versus Goliath 

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00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,120
season because everybody loves a
season where it's like about 

223
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,720
underdogs, like the people who 
get bullied in. 

224
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,480
School versus it doesn't matter 
because they're going to end up 

225
00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,160
getting switched up at some. 
I know, I know, I know, I know. 

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00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,920
Like, it's always so like, it 
doesn't make sense like at the 

227
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,400
end of the season, but oh, 
Christian was my guy, bro. 

228
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,560
I was the biggest Christian fan.
Like, like, I don't know why. 

229
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,520
I really just resonated with his
vibe. 

230
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,880
Like he was so cool. 
Anyway, enough about Survivor, 

231
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,760
more about me surviving New 
York. 

232
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,920
So what I've been up to is I 
know, I know. 

233
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,720
I really worked on that one. 
Yeah, I know. 

234
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,920
I've been, I've been good 
listening to a bunch of music. 

235
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:36,840
As you guys might know, I have a
series where I highlight music 

236
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,200
on my TikTok and I've just been 
going down the rabbit hole just 

237
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,120
finding artists and stuff like 
that and it's so fun. 

238
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,960
It's so fun. 
I've actually been finding like 

239
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,280
some really, really dope 
talented Kenyan artists and I'm 

240
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,160
like bro, why does this song 
have 1000 views on YouTube? 

241
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,280
I'm like this should be so much 
more. 

242
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,120
I found some guy called Mark 
Bruce. 

243
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,920
So fired. 
Like shout out to him. 

244
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,840
These are these are the guys 
super and dance. 

245
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,880
Although they had like they're 
starting to like really, really 

246
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,080
pop off. 
They had like a post on Nairobi 

247
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,880
Gossip club. 
So it's just it's just really 

248
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,760
fun. 
They have a song called Nico on 

249
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,480
that's like an abandoned song 
called Nico on that's like 

250
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,360
starting to like pop off and I'm
just like it's so fun. 

251
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,640
It's fun finding those. 
Gems, man, like then one of the 

252
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,640
yeah, it's. 
Exactly, just to like discover 

253
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,280
something amazing. 
Like, like, I can't imagine, 

254
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,640
like the first person who like, 
I don't know, listen to let's 

255
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,640
say Wadaglis, for example. 
And it's like you these guys are

256
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,840
going to pop off or like, you 
know, toxic, really Cali. 

257
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,800
And you're like, yo, this is the
future. 

258
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,640
And and then he actually goes on
to like become the biggest or 

259
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,360
one of the biggest artists of 
2025. 

260
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:54,120
Like I I just love that feeling 
of being there before something 

261
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,760
happens. 
So yeah, I was just kind of 

262
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,720
spent my whole week chasing 
that, chasing that feeling, 

263
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,840
definitely. 
Oh man. 

264
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,400
Yeah, I'm chasing the dragon, 
bro. 

265
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,440
That's my dragon right there, 
man. 

266
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,600
Actually, what does that mean? 
I don't, I think. 

267
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,280
I feel like that's the dragon 
has like. 

268
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,440
Yeah, it's it has to do with it.
I feel like it has a dark 

269
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,480
feeling. 
Yeah, it's more used in in drug 

270
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,640
circles, just in the dragon. 
It's just in the high, the first

271
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,680
high you get when you take. 
Oh, that's what That's what it. 

272
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,720
Is so you spend the rest of your
life trying to chase the time, 

273
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,000
but you're never going to get 
there. 

274
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,240
That's why you do more and more 
and you get sensitized to it. 

275
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,400
Oh, what did you think? 
What did you think it was? 

276
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,120
I don't, I don't know. 
I thought it was. 

277
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,840
Not saying epic. 
So you thought they were talking

278
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,640
about actual Dragons? 
It was a saying. 

279
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,320
Oh goodness. 
Yeah, better. 

280
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,920
It was just Dragons anyway. 
No, it's not. 

281
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,120
So let's get into the podcast 
today. 

282
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,360
So there's a there's a 
conversation I want to have with

283
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,960
you, Sam. 
And so there's this producer, 

284
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,120
he's called Liza Classic. 
I say this producer, but he's 

285
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,160
worked with Wasafi. 
And he's like one of the biggest

286
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,560
producers and engineers out of 
out of East Africa, I would say,

287
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:14,120
but then mostly East Africa. 
And he he, he went on a posting 

288
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,960
spree on his story, kind of 
talking about the fact that 

289
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:24,200
nobody cares about your music 
unless you're popular. 

290
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,760
And he gave a few examples about
how the, your, you know, you 

291
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,280
could have the greatest music, 
but if you're not popular, 

292
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,320
people are not going to flock 
around your music to listen to 

293
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,200
you. 
And he gave the example that, 

294
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,800
you know, a lot of the 
popularity that we see, you 

295
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,560
know, like there's a lot that 
goes into it. 

296
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,760
Sometimes there's going to be 
somebody funding the popularity 

297
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,320
of finding just this 
conversation starters behind 

298
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,720
these artists and stuff like 
that. 

299
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,960
Usually it might be a label and 
they'll take a percentage 

300
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,440
because, you know, that's kind 
of how you get people to pay 

301
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,320
attention to you or just even 
indulge in in your music. 

302
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:13,440
And I wanted to, to, to ask, do 
you do you agree with this? 

303
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,440
Like, do you think it's true? 
Like nobody cares about your 

304
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,520
music unless you're popular. 
Does that actually hold any 

305
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,640
weight? 
You just with that, with that 

306
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,280
question, I think you just 
triggered every artist 

307
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,200
everywhere and just taking the 
flashbacks. 

308
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,440
They haven't flashbacks, just 
crying, going back and listening

309
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,600
to the older songs. 
I think it's true. 

310
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,520
I think it's very true. 
I think it's true because of how

311
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,000
society functions. 
I think people, people are. 

312
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:51,440
When you live in a community, 
you tend to gravitate towards 

313
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,480
the community so that you can 
have some sort of acceptance, 

314
00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:04,040
feeling, a feeling of belonging.
And so it doesn't matter what 

315
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,839
you like individually. 
A lot of the times, of course, I

316
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:09,560
think, I think that's changed 
recently because people are, 

317
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,440
there's, there's a bigger, 
there's a bigger story in terms 

318
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,599
of being yourself and being your
true self. 

319
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:18,960
And that's something that has 
been pushed recently. 

320
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:24,599
But it doesn't matter what you 
like individually because it's 

321
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,960
it's like, it's like when you, 
when you go for a show or you 

322
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,200
go, let's say you're hanging out
with your friends and they pass 

323
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,480
you the ox and the song you've 
been vibing to the whole week, 

324
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,680
just having a blast. 
You have it on repeat numerous 

325
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,080
times and then you play it and, 
and you get no reaction from, I 

326
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,400
don't know if you've heard those
words before. 

327
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,880
Absolutely no reaction from 
everyone. 

328
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,800
And it's just like, OK, who is 
this? 

329
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,960
It's really cool. 
The feeling you feel inside is 

330
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,840
like, oh snap. 
Like is there something wrong 

331
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,000
with my taste? 
And that's just how society. 

332
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,000
It's like you have been stabbed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Stabbed 

333
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,600
like you betrayed yourself, like
you're not that cool anymore. 

334
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,960
And this is how society is is we
tend to gravitate towards what 

335
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,800
other people think is cool. 
So when it comes to a musician, 

336
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,880
definitely because music, music 
is a very it speaks to people 

337
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,720
individually and as community. 
And so there's there are times 

338
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,840
where you will not really get 
much attention because the 

339
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,120
individuals that you're speaking
to are not part of the mass or 

340
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,640
they don't, they don't belong to
that whole group musically at 

341
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,720
least. 
So it's only when the group gets

342
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,760
window view, that's when 
everything starts to move and 

343
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,680
meaning is only given to numbers
unfortunately. 

344
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,320
Wait, wait, wait. 
So are you trying to tell me 

345
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,880
that that's what like the artist
listening to this podcast need 

346
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,800
to start chasing because bro, 
there's only so much popularity 

347
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,760
can do for you. 
I know that's a difficult 

348
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,160
question, but how? 
How far can popularity really 

349
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:00,520
take? 
You. 

350
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,160
Well, popularity effects 
everything. 

351
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,720
It does, but like we've seen 
some artists who have high 

352
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:10,400
popularity but they're not that 
much talent and eventually it 

353
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,320
fizzles out. 
Unfortunately, popularity 

354
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,080
doesn't lend itself to 
longevity. 

355
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,480
Yeah, unfortunately the industry
is not geared towards longevity 

356
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,520
anymore either way. 
So it I guess it works for 

357
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,000
everyone and they're actually 
looking for. 

358
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,200
Yeah, but it's true. 
They're actually looking like, 

359
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,560
if you think about it like with 
the the labels are not looking 

360
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,960
for stars anymore. 
They're looking for popular 

361
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:37,960
people. 
They're looking for people with 

362
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,320
numbers and traction, mostly on 
social media, so they're just. 

363
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,440
Looking for a quick lick. 
They're looking for Yeah, yeah, 

364
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,800
yeah. 
Yeah, and now they're signing 

365
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,040
songs that blew up overnight 
with no intention of growing 

366
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,520
that artists and signing them 
for ridiculous numbers. 

367
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,560
And so it's just that 
popularity. 

368
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,320
But that OK. 
But in my opinion that feels 

369
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,880
very very short sighted though I
don't know. 

370
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:07,840
Well, it's short sighted from 
your point of view from the 

371
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,000
level levels point. 
From my narrow perspective. 

372
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,440
From my itsy bitsy perspective. 
Yeah, from from your very ill 

373
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,000
informed. 
Wait, wait, so are you, are you 

374
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,760
trying to say that like from the
label, it's just like these 

375
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,560
people are extremely 
replaceable. 

376
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,760
So like you can you you go with 
what's hot for the next 6 

377
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,040
months, then you find the next 
one for the next 6 months, then 

378
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,040
you find the next one for the 
next 6 months and you just keep 

379
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,880
on surviving. 
That, that's the thing I don't I

380
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,840
don't even think the labels are 
they're thinking about who can 

381
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,800
we replace? 
I don't think they're good 

382
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,840
They're not thinking about the 
person they're thinking about 

383
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,320
what that person can do. 
And so it's like this is hot 

384
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,440
right now let's get get a 
contract ready and cash in and 

385
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,440
then it's like really quick 
investments. 

386
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,080
So they're not investing in 
people they're investing in 

387
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,000
moments and songs. 
And so now as an artist, if your

388
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,800
song isn't popular, you're you 
have a very small chance now 

389
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:04,240
that trickles down to like the 
indie artist level. 

390
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,280
The artist was just starting out
because again, you could post 

391
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,880
all you want to post on social 
media and everything, but then 

392
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,920
the moment, the moment ADJ 
plays, let's say you're doing 

393
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,720
EDM, the moment ADJ plays that 
Afro house joint that you made 

394
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,800
and because of the nature of 
being, because of the nature of 

395
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,240
the dance floor, right? 
And people will hear the song 

396
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,400
and it just came at the right 
time. 

397
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,600
The DJ slotted it in right after
that pre banger and slotted in 

398
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,960
your song and now everyone is 
vibing to it. 

399
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,280
Now that Shazam's go up and all 
of a sudden you have a hit on 

400
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,040
your hands. 
That song has been out for a 

401
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,600
year, right? 
It's been out for a year, but no

402
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,560
one knew it. 
The only now and that's when 

403
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,840
people really start rocking with
you and that's when all the 

404
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,360
opportunities come in. 
Before that, I'm pretty sure 

405
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,360
some of these artists, like 
artists like Sophie and Zoe and 

406
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:54,120
them, they were releasing music 
before, but the moment they got 

407
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:58,320
that hit and they became Uber 
popular, that's where now 

408
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,680
everyone, the phone phones start
buzzing. 

409
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,320
It's terrible, but that's. 
But that's super annoying to me.

410
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,520
But that's super annoying to me.
So are you are you trying to say

411
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,360
like song X could? 
So, so let's talk about song X 

412
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,240
in the context of two separate 
futures or two separate 

413
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,560
timelines. 
So some song X could have been 

414
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,000
released and it just did 
absolutely nothing. 

415
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,520
And but then the same song X 
could have been released and 

416
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,280
then for some reason goes viral 
or gets popular and the same the

417
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,360
song gets cheated completely 
differently just because of how 

418
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,600
people. 
Completely different, yeah, 

419
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,480
because of how people, because 
our people took it, that's how 

420
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,280
the. 
Context in which they they. 

421
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,760
Yeah, that's happened to where 
where artists have released 

422
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,720
released music. 
The release song may be taken 

423
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,920
off of us and maybe redone one 
verse a little bit or switch the

424
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,640
hook around and done something. 
And then they release the same 

425
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,280
song that did not do well. 
Then all of a sudden it blows up

426
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,800
and now everybody's like, bro, 
this is the most amazing thing. 

427
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,440
So much so that they go back and
delete the old one and 

428
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,240
completely get rid of any trace 
of it. 

429
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,360
But that's just because it was 
accepted. 

430
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,640
Now that it's accepted, now all 
of a sudden that song has worth.

431
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,000
Which is ridiculous. 
OK, but I I, but I I I, I 

432
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,440
disagree. 
I disagree with the sentiment 

433
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,640
that. 
So for me personally, I think 

434
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,240
guess what Liza class classic is
saying is true. 

435
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,160
Like popularity is the thing 
that sells or no one cares about

436
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,840
your music unless you're 
popular. 

437
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,640
But I think that's a pathway 
that only ends in tears because 

438
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,640
that popularity only lasts for 
so long. 

439
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,480
And then after that you're 
you're finished, you're done and

440
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,640
people will move on to someone, 
someone else. 

441
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,840
So me personally, I would say as
an artist, like I think it's 

442
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,720
better to chase longevity than 
it is to chase popularity 

443
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,480
because yeah, fine, you can get 
the hit song today or not even 

444
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,200
the hit song. 
You can you can you can do the 

445
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,280
you can make the viral TikTok 
that makes you super popular 

446
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,360
today, but generally, how long 
are you going to be able to keep

447
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,040
that yeah. 
How long are you going to be 

448
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,800
able to keep up that attention 
and and then what happens to 

449
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,080
your music once that attention 
fades away? 

450
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,680
You know what I mean? 
So I think it's better to invest

451
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:34,360
in your music and then just 
figure out a way where like the 

452
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:38,600
popularity and the music kind of
like intersect and you start 

453
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,400
doing well because honestly, it 
just ends up in tears. 

454
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,760
Like you see the likes of and I 
know this is not a Kenyan 

455
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,440
example but like ice spice bro. 
Where is she bro? 

456
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,280
Where did she go? 
What happened to Ice Spice, by 

457
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,840
the way? 
What's Ice Spice doing today? 

458
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:58,240
And and she gets so much hate 
nowadays anytime she releases 

459
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,280
music because it's just like 
this shit is trash or whatever, 

460
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,960
but but everybody. 
It's the same music. 

461
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:05,920
When she used to release. 
Me. 

462
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,600
Yeah, the same music. 
And the problem is no, but the 

463
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:14,080
problem is but but some, some 
the problem is the same people 

464
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,760
who hyped you up during your 
popularity. 

465
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
There's same people who are 

466
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,040
going to shit on your music when
it's when those are when the 

467
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,440
popularity isn't like. 
Those are the sheepiest of the 

468
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,400
sheep. 
Honestly, those people are the 

469
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,080
they're the worst. 
They're the ones who like when a

470
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,120
wolf shows up they they run into
the middle of the park so that 

471
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,280
they don't get eaten first. 
Those that's sheep sheep 

472
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,400
mentality. 
It's terrible popularity Has 

473
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,760
very negative Popularity in 
music I guess has very negative,

474
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,360
not negative. 
Sorry. 

475
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:51,200
It has a bunch of cons #1 not 
all good music is popular, 

476
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,200
right? 
Sometimes people choose just the

477
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,560
most ratchet music for for and, 
and makes, makes it popular. 

478
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,080
And that of course, would now 
affect the, the, the field. 

479
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,480
Because if the labels are 
controlling everything and they 

480
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,160
look at that kind of music as 
all right, this is really what's

481
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,440
selling, then they're going to 
start telling their bigger 

482
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,640
artists to go towards that. 
We've seen that a lot in the 

483
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,320
industry where artists have come
out saying that the label forced

484
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,080
them to do something that they 
were not comfortable with. 

485
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,560
And it's just all in the name of
all right, This is what the 

486
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,360
people are even. 
And big artists go through that 

487
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:25,560
too. 
It's not just a smaller artist 

488
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,880
where because popularity is 
equals to money. 

489
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,200
That's the direct translation. 
So they end up just compromising

490
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,360
and it's terrible. 
And as a new and and. 

491
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:41,120
And, but, but I, I, I think, 
sorry, sorry to interrupt, but 

492
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,920
I'm just going to say it like, I
feel like the, the, what the 

493
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,480
music industry does in chasing 
popularity, it really limits 

494
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,760
just how broad and diverse the 
music industry could be. 

495
00:26:54,040 --> 00:27:00,600
Because like, like you see, and 
I've, and this is something that

496
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,680
I've talked about before about 
just how, I don't know if this 

497
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,520
is going to be controversial, 
but have you ever been listening

498
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:14,040
to, let's say, R&B, right? 
And then you look at all the 

499
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,040
girls who are doing R&B, for 
example, even the guys, and all 

500
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:23,640
of them just somehow by luck, 
all of them seem to just 

501
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,000
miraculously all be attractive. 
I don't know if you've ever. 

502
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,960
Mentioned any attractive have 
you ever It's incredible, 

503
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,400
especially conventional. 
Right. 

504
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,720
Like it's, it's, it's, it's such
a weird like observation I've 

505
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,080
made. 
Like there's no way all of these

506
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,440
people just are. 
Like all of them seem to just be

507
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,400
conventionally attractive just 
like that. 

508
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,520
That's really horrible. 
No way that's terrible. 

509
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800
It's. 
Unless it's something that the 

510
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,520
music industry is is 
intentionally doing. 

511
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,240
Because let's face it, being 
attractive is linked to 

512
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,200
popularity. 
If you're attractive, people 

513
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,200
want to like like. 
They have a higher tolerance. 

514
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,320
For you people, people want to 
interact with you way more 

515
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,960
exactly right? 
And it's so stupid in my opinion

516
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,240
because, and I don't know if 
this is a mean thing to say, non

517
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,440
conventionally attractive people
make good music too, right? 

518
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,920
That also have talent, but the 
truth we are, there's talent. 

519
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,720
There's talent there, man. 
That's something that only 

520
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,600
exists in talent. 
Is that something that only 

521
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,280
exists in the female industry? 
Do that for men as well. 

522
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,520
No, it it it doesn't. 
But it's it's way more 

523
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,440
prevalent. 
In the female in the female, 

524
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,080
well, we know that because of 
just how like, I mean how 

525
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,520
females tend to be the face of 
beauty in the world, so. 

526
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,600
But it's it's stupid in my 
opinion man. 

527
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,320
Like because most of the most of
the non conventionally 

528
00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,400
attractive like artists end up 
either just being left behind as

529
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:06,480
like songwriters. 
That's so sad bro, that's so sad

530
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,720
but that's crazy. 
But then also also the non 

531
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,560
conventionally attractive 
artists need to do way more 

532
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,920
because let's be honest, there's
still people who aren't like 

533
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,320
heralded as conventionally 
attractive who still like break 

534
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,760
the mold and and do very well. 
But they have to be. 

535
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,000
Incredibly. 
Talented, like super, really 

536
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,080
talented to really, really break
the mold and like do something 

537
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,400
that's crazy, you know what I 
mean? 

538
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,640
Or have this longevity, like you
have to be like really insanely 

539
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,240
good to do that at the same 
time. 

540
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,760
And it's just sucks, man. 
Like, I don't know, this whole 

541
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,200
popularity thing and then it 
being attached to fashion or 

542
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,520
looks and this and that and the 
third like. 

543
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,760
Yeah. 
What would you advise to an 

544
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,880
artist? 
Let's say you have you, you, 

545
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:57,960
you. 
You have a label, you have a new

546
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,960
artist, and they're kind of 
going through this, this dilemma

547
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,960
of trying to make popular music 
versus trying to stay true, 

548
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,640
true, true to themselves. 
Goodness. 

549
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,200
What would you advise them? 
What, what, what, what are you 

550
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,640
trying to? 
Or rather, what type of 

551
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,000
mentality would you try and 
build up in a young artist to be

552
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:25,600
able to navigate? 
Well #1 you #1 you always have 

553
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,160
to stay true to yourself, 
otherwise you will get extremely

554
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,400
burnt out, like they will reach 
a point where you just cannot 

555
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,080
keep up the facade. 
So you always have to be true to

556
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,240
yourself. 
You know what I mean? 

557
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,800
And we see this happen all the 
time where artists, like, they 

558
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:49,360
jump out of the gate being super
weird and different and quirky 

559
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,240
just to gain attention. 
And then once they get the 

560
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,400
success, they kind of revert to 
their default settings, IE 

561
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,440
Billie Eilish, for example. 
You know, we saw how she popped 

562
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,160
off and then get after that 
whole hype and that whole phase 

563
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,400
kind of went back to the what 
she's actually like. 

564
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Yeah, what she's actually like, 
which which, you know, I really 

565
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,800
like both versions of Billie 
Eilish, right. 

566
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,120
So you always have to stay 
authentic. 

567
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,600
J. 
Cole, usually he had an 

568
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,160
interview where he said the 
music industry requires you to 

569
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,280
give before you can take. 
And that's that's also wise. 

570
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,560
But to a certain extent, he's 
like back in when he started 

571
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,320
out, he used to like kind of 
feed into the stereotype of hip 

572
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,400
hop and wear chains and be 
outside with all the girls and 

573
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,840
in the parties and all that 
stuff because that's what people

574
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,920
wanted to see. 
And then once he got, I know. 

575
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,480
But once he got to his level of 
success, he went back into 

576
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,600
himself. 
He grew out his dreads and. 

577
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,520
Bought a bike? 
He started riding his bike 

578
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,920
around, Yeah, he's not riding 
his bike around New York, like, 

579
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,840
and that's who he actually. 
Ran into him he. 

580
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,920
Gave the industry what it No, 
not yet, I will. 

581
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,400
No, if you do, if you do, tell 
him I make. 

582
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,560
It's cross, Sam. 
It's crossed my mind. 

583
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Well, I'm sorry to tell you 
this, Sam, but I will tell him I

584
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,000
make the beats. 
First, no bro, you have to put 

585
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,600
your friend down before you. 
What kind of There's no loyalty 

586
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:26,080
in this world? 
No, I'm loyal to you, but like I

587
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,720
will ask. 
Him I have divisions on J. 

588
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,760
Cole. 
I'm sorry bro. 

589
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,080
If I was out there I'd I'd say 
alpha beats before I say make. 

590
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,000
I make beats. 
What kind of friend are you bro?

591
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,640
This is crazy. 
That is, that is just human 

592
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,200
nature. 
But anyway, but it has crossed 

593
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,040
my mind, yeah, because you do 
the same. 

594
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,440
Because you do the same. 
Anyway, it's crossed my mind if 

595
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,760
I'd run into him. 
But anyway, the point is, yeah, 

596
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,280
to some extent you do have to 
give the industry what it wants 

597
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,680
before you can take what you 
want from it. 

598
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,240
That, but that you see, there's 
a line there because how much do

599
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,960
you want to give the industry? 
And, and, and, and that's where 

600
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,840
your morals kind of like come 
into question because you can go

601
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,000
down a deep dark Rd. 
If you're just giving the 

602
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,240
industry everything it wants and
that's a conversation for 

603
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,600
another day. 
It can get very deep. 

604
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,920
And I guess it's on my point 
just to wrap up, I so we 

605
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,760
shouldn't always demonize 
popularity because popularity is

606
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,040
really what takes like small 
artists to the big stage. 

607
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,920
Like once your music becomes 
popular, then you can earn off 

608
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,320
it. 
So it's I think it just depends 

609
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,880
on what popularity is being used
for. 

610
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,800
If it's been used for like a 
quick leak and just getting some

611
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,080
quick money and or whatever, 
then that's when it feels like 

612
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,800
you're cheapening the art. 
But then if you're actually 

613
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,440
working. 
And I think we do not good, 

614
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,560
sorry to interrupt, but like I 
do think we need to demonize it 

615
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,160
because unfortunately it's the 
it's the former and not the 

616
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,520
latter because most times or 
more often than not, it's used 

617
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,480
for the quick leaks. 
Can we say that? 

618
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,480
Used for the surface level or 
short sighted like goals. 

619
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,679
But all the small artists do. 
And because. 

620
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,480
Yes, I do agree with you. 
Become big because of 

621
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,920
popularity, so without it you 
don't really have much. 

622
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,000
It's a catalyst to the next 
level, I guess. 

623
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,360
So I guess then what you're 
saying is like, who is using the

624
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,040
oh, who is using popularity as a
tool? 

625
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,760
Because most times when the, 
when, when the machine is using 

626
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,320
it, it's, it's nefarious. 
I don't know. 

627
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,639
I, I'm still torn nefarious. 
I'm still torn, though. 

628
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:47,760
I, I, I feel like I'm still, I 
still wish good music would 

629
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,560
shine through because it's good,
not because the artist is 

630
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,520
popular. 
Nope, not when money is 

631
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:54,960
involved, I guess. 
Nope. 

632
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,080
Hey, if you're a small artist, 
don't worry about popularity. 

633
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,560
Just worry about making good 
music. 

634
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,200
Worry about making good music 
and just keep making good music.

635
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,560
And at some point, someone will 
like it so much that they'll 

636
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,880
share to with their friend and 
that friend will like, like 

637
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,720
there's a point where your music
just starts to live and just 

638
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:20,960
just gets life becomes alive. 
And that's when you get 

639
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,720
traction. 
But you have to keep stressing 

640
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,880
until then. 
So and that's that's words to 

641
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,520
everyone, including myself. 
Yeah, words to live by. 

642
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,560
Yeah, I was asking, do you want 
to talk about some popular 

643
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,400
artists who happen to have a 
show in France? 

644
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,360
Yeah, but this might be the 70th
time in a row we're talking 

645
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,360
about Bien. 
But then Bien was out there 

646
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:51,160
having a show in France, Matata 
Matata, who were actually 

647
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,400
present in the the the they 
showed up one of the days for 

648
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,960
the. 
The beat camp the beat. 

649
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,720
Camp, yeah, they showed up on 
one of the days came and then 

650
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:00,720
they were really rocking with 
some stuff. 

651
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:04,200
Then they had to leave. 
I guess they went to France. 

652
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,360
They didn't come back, but yeah,
yeah, they're supposed to return

653
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,440
in the evening. 
I just do that a lot. 

654
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,880
Oh, man, we're really rocking 
with this. 

655
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,560
Man, This is crazy. 
This. 

656
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,400
And then they went the next. 
Time you saw them. 

657
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:21,360
You saw them like in front of a.
Car yeah like yo bro, like what 

658
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:23,320
we're working on a song. 
I thought you were going to come

659
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:24,720
down and leave vocals. 
I thought you said that this 

660
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,000
this one was a nature the most 
with you. 

661
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,040
But anyway, so they were out 
there, sold their show out, 

662
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,680
which is great. 
That's good news, isn't it for 

663
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,280
us. 
Wow. 

664
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,760
Sorry to interrupt. 
Wait, sorry to interrupt you, 

665
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,120
but artists need to stop doing 
that. 

666
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,240
Artists always be in the studio 
sessions with each other saying 

667
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:43,200
yo this shit is this shit is is 
astronomical man. 

668
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,560
Yo, we need to read this. 
The one. 

669
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,680
Yo, we got one bro. 
We got one man. 

670
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,200
Yeah, bro, whole time, you know,
they know in their head we're 

671
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,160
never working again. 
They just tried to make the 

672
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,840
producer because producers, 
producers are very, we're very 

673
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,320
fragile beings. 
Our feelings must be protected. 

674
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:07,160
Our feelings must be protected. 
Oh yeah, Producers were so sad. 

675
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,640
Producers were just like, Oh my 
God, I have a song with this guy

676
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,600
called All time. 
This guy doesn't care about that

677
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,960
at. 
All at all doesn't care. 

678
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,800
But anyway, just lie to me. 
Lie to me, please. 

679
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,000
So they were out there, sold out
show that. 

680
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,440
That's a good show too. 
I'm thinking like Bien and 

681
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,640
Matata is a really good show. 
Did they? 

682
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,560
I don't want to be wrong, but do
they have a collaboration 

683
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,400
together? 
Yeah, it's called, it's called 

684
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,280
mfishi. 
Mfishi. 

685
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,240
It came out two months ago. 
Yeah, it's a it's a hit. 

686
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:35,080
It's a hit. 
It's a hit, hit. 

687
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:38,560
Having a collaboration together,
I'm sure they're they're out 

688
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,640
there performing that song and 
it's just cool. 

689
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,000
It's cool, it's cool. 
I love to see sold out shows 

690
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,200
from Kenyan artists who are not 
necessarily based out. 

691
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,480
OK well no, Matata is based out 
there though. 

692
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,520
Based out in Norway? 
That's BN is based here. 

693
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Norway, I knew it was. 

694
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,960
I knew it was one of those 
Scandinavian. 

695
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,320
But here I was saying the 
interesting thing about France 

696
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:08,040
is, bro, France is really tapped
into like African music like 

697
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,800
they are really. 
And then I guess it's because a 

698
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,600
lot of Africans are out there. 
Well, that's 1/2 of the joke. 

699
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:20,440
The other half is not so. 
OK, colonialism does have a part

700
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,600
to play this because hey, look 
at you look at the France like 

701
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,600
the French national team and 
it's a bunch of Africans, right?

702
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:35,240
So, yeah, there is, there is an 
undeniable link between African 

703
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:40,960
music and France. 
And yeah, I, I, I like it. 

704
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,120
I like, I like the fact that 
they're out there. 

705
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,640
I hope they're really 
collaborating with the artists 

706
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,880
out there as well, because there
is definitely a market for 

707
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,800
African music in in France. 
I'm telling you all right now, 

708
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,280
because I was watching, I was 
just watching people out there 

709
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:03,160
for the music and a lot of them 
were consuming a lot of like 

710
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,280
Lingala, that Coupe de Cali 
sound like bro, that stuff out 

711
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,320
there is so massive. 
There's another song that goes 

712
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:18,880
we, we, we, we, OK, I don't that
sound crazy right now, but that 

713
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,960
song is so good, bro. 
It's like, it's like. 

714
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Because I wouldn't pick that up 
at all. 

715
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,160
Bro, no, no, Shazam would pick 
that song up bro. 

716
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,560
It's so catchy. 
Yeah, the song, the song is 

717
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,560
called Bandit by this girl group
called Holly G and it's called 

718
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,640
and the song well in brackets 
it's called Wee Wee Wee. 

719
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,360
It's so catchy. 
But that's the sound out there. 

720
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,000
So you know, I'm also, I'm 
trying to see some Kenyans hope 

721
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,320
on this sound as well. 
So I don't know, maybe we might 

722
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,600
hear BN. 
The question, though, is that 

723
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,720
would French music work here? 
We're always talking, I think 

724
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:59,440
we're always talking about, 
about whether or not our music 

725
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,160
would work outside. 
But then like, is there a chance

726
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,600
for the reverse? 
Like if they collaborate if 

727
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,560
either Bien or Matata or all of 
them collaborate with a French 

728
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,880
artist. 
Like will it do well here? 

729
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:17,960
I think it would. 
I think it would because I mean,

730
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,240
we've seen, I know this isn't 
necessarily like French music, 

731
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,280
but I've know a lot of French 
artists have also hopped on like

732
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,880
the compa wave and everything. 
And that's starting to like make

733
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,120
inroads into the Kenyan industry
from people like In Bien to Ben 

734
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,760
so ETC. 
So and Hendrick Sam has been a 

735
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,640
big proponent of making compa 
like a more mainstream sound. 

736
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,640
So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely 
sure that like people would be 

737
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,560
open, like people are beginning 
to be open to like these 

738
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,280
different like avenues of like 
African music that's not just 

739
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,520
Afrobeat. 
So definitely see a future where

740
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,240
like this and if anything, me, 
I'm all on the wave man. 

741
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:04,400
We have already started making 
like some like. 

742
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,000
Are you doing compa music? 
Stuff. 

743
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,320
Like are you making compa? 
Not compa, No, no, no, not 

744
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,640
compa, but like like just like 
the Afro trap stuff that's been 

745
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,640
happening. 
No, I I but I can't. 

746
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:17,640
Are you trying to say that I 
can't? 

747
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:18,520
Are you? 
Trying to challenge. 

748
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,960
I'm just trying to say I just, I
can't see it. 

749
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,920
I can't see if I'm in the studio
saying hi today we're going to 

750
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,800
make a compa beat. 
I but I can if I wanted to I. 

751
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,560
Can if I wanted to, but you 
wouldn't. 

752
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,240
You would never wanted to. 
You would never want just to. 

753
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:33,640
That's the thing, on your own, 
you wanna. 

754
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,360
Do you wanna bet? 
I guess I. 

755
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,000
Can let's bet if you make a 
competent is fire. 

756
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:46,000
I will go on social media and 
no, I'm not going to put. 

757
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,160
No, no, no, no, no, no. 
I was so locked. 

758
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,680
In because no, no, no. 
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 

759
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,760
That's so boring, bro. 
I was actually so ready, but I 

760
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,600
was already thinking about I've 
got to do this. 

761
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,400
Please give me a good, Give me a
no no, give me a good. 

762
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:07,760
Oh no, man, what could be OK? 
You know what you choose, you 

763
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,080
choose choose something that 
would happen if you actually 

764
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,640
make a compa beat at, but you 
need to raise the stakes. 

765
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,000
Because if I make a compa beat 
like, we need to raise the 

766
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,840
stakes. 
If I make a good compa beat, 

767
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:27,560
right, you have to go on social 
media, OK actually, but we need 

768
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,080
we need people to like judge if 
the beat is. 

769
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,440
Actually, here's a good yeah, 
but yeah, here's the this. 

770
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,840
Is the 4th. 
There has to be other people 

771
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:35,920
involved. 
It just can be. 

772
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,520
That's fine, because I'm just 
going to say that's. 

773
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,320
Fine, we can even leave it. 
We can leave it out to the to 

774
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,480
the to our like the people who 
listen to the podcast. 

775
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,080
Here's the here's the forfeit. 
We have to make a video. 

776
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,320
So if I make a the the the beat 
and people think it's good Sam, 

777
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,200
you have to make a video saying 
Afam was right and I and I Sam 

778
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,040
was wrong. 
Alternatively, I'll do the same.

779
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,760
If the beat is trash, I have to 
make a video saying Sam was 

780
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,400
right. 
And we have we give no context 

781
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,560
on that video. 
We're posting it on our story, 

782
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,680
on your Instagram story. 
And all I have to say is I'll do

783
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,160
a video and I'll say Sam was 
right and I affam was wrong. 

784
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:23,680
And that story will be posted 
either on will be posted on our 

785
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,480
own personal social media, our 
own personal Instagram and also 

786
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,600
the podcast Instagram. 
Do you? 

787
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,640
I really shouldn't have gone 
down this road, this. 

788
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:32,920
Virtual handshake. 
But it's cool. 

789
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,880
It's cool because I still not to
say I don't believe in you, but.

790
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:43,240
Virtual handshake, Virtual 
handshake bet and what's the 

791
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:44,920
timeline? 
What's the timeline? 

792
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,160
How many tutorials do you need 
to watch? 

793
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,840
Oh my God, I just need bro. 
I just need. 

794
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,960
How many times? 
How much do I mean how much time

795
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,200
do you need to watch your 
tutorials? 

796
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Give me, give me, give me a 
week. 

797
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,560
Give me a week, Give me a week. 
Alright. 

798
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:08,200
By the time, By the time, OK, 
no, actually give me by the time

799
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,440
we are releasing the episode 
after this one. 

800
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,160
So give me till Wednesday the 
one. 39. 

801
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,720
Wednesday the 16th. 
Of July deal. 

802
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:22,640
Deal. 
It's done. 

803
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,040
It's done. 
Oh my God, Sam, you're going to 

804
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,360
be so embarrassed. 
I feel so embarrassed for you 

805
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,800
already. 
No, no, don't just jump to 

806
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,720
victory. 
You've not embarrassed, you 

807
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,800
don't jump to victory. 
I feel anytime some compound, 

808
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,320
we're not we're not making some 
underground or take compound. 

809
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,000
Yeah. 
No, no, no. 

810
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,280
Compound I'll make. 
I'll make a proper compound. 

811
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,280
I'll make a proper compound one.
Oh my God, This is such a this 

812
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,760
is such a Slumdog. 
Oh my God. 

813
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,640
Wow, Eddie, Hey, listen. 
Some engagement farming I want. 

814
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,840
You guys should also go and 
listen to all the music Alpha 

815
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,760
must produced and then tell me 
if you think he's going to be 

816
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,720
able to do it. 
But do it. 

817
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,560
A lot of people doubted me, 
People, people didn't know I 

818
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,760
could make, I could make 
Gengheton or Abanton or 

819
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,840
whatever. 
And I did. 

820
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,400
So watch. 
Watch this space anyway. 

821
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,920
The compa is slightly different 
to Gengheton and Abanton, but 

822
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:11,760
all right, cool. 
Let's see. 

823
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:12,880
Let's see how it goes. 
Let's see how it goes. 

824
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,000
There we go. 
Shout out to my Tata. 

825
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,520
Shout out to be an out there 
doing their thing. 

826
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,520
And shout out to me winning in 
the future. 

827
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,480
Do you want to listen? 
Yeah, we're talking about other 

828
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:24,640
artists here. 
You are all. 

829
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:33,520
Right, new music, Sam and yeah, 
man, do you want me to start or 

830
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,040
shoot? 
You actually let me start. 

831
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,240
Let me start with what I let me 
start with what I listen to. 

832
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:43,920
I listen to a song called Lazy 
by I Foolish featuring Blue and 

833
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,640
Genesis. 
It's just kind of interesting to

834
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,680
see Genesis in conjunction with 
Kinna I Foolish. 

835
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,400
But hey, he held his own. 
He held his own so well. 

836
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,120
Actually, wait, what? 
The song came out. 

837
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,720
He's a Kilimani. 
Well, some people would say he's

838
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:02,600
a Kilimani rapper, but he's not 
really a Kilimani rapper because

839
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,600
he doesn't do the Kilimani 
rapping thing. 

840
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,000
But like, yeah anyway, the song 
came out a while ago but the 

841
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,360
video was shot recently so I 
watched that and I just wanted 

842
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,680
to shout it out. 
There was Kankari by Father MO 

843
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,480
and Joe Fess. 
Bro I feel like Joe Fess 

844
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,840
releases music every single week
so that guy is just in the 

845
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:25,880
studio. 
Quizzing. 

846
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,960
Yeah, all the time. 
And then there was Gal Toto by 

847
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:37,840
Buzi Gang and Fenna. 
Yeah, I feel like furthermore, 

848
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,920
boozy gang, like bro, like I 
hear them every single week. 

849
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,480
They release music all the time,
which is a good strategy I guess

850
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:51,520
because like you get like people
will hear you or have you in 

851
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,400
front of their faces like all 
the time. 

852
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,480
But the drawback is sometimes it
can get fatiguing. 

853
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:04,320
Anyway, shout out to them. 
I listened to back-to-back 

854
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:10,840
again, Joffes and Johnny Benz, I
listen to Caribbean Kidogo by 

855
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:16,640
Mudoka, shout out to him. 
And the last song I want to 

856
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:22,000
shout out is around by 34 Brick,
Mauruguash and only MO. 

857
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,920
Yeah. 
Fire. 

858
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,080
I went like the first thing I 
went to listen to was Healing 

859
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,680
Biokilo Max, which I want to say
it is OK, I'm just going to say 

860
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,120
it. 
Healing Biokilo Max 15 songs, 

861
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,440
which is, I don't know if that's
long for a Kenyan artist, 15 

862
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,160
songs. 
But yeah, it was interesting, 

863
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,080
interesting. 
Some interesting production on 

864
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,120
there and him just doing his 
thing. 

865
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,200
I need to listen to it again for
something to really stick. 

866
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,400
I feel like I'm still maybe 
getting used to him and probably

867
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,120
still getting used to his music.
But yeah, a couple of artists on

868
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,320
their Breeders, on their vagina,
Barbaro on their Iwai Tajiri, 

869
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:10,320
attend the Wheelie Madika decks.
You know, producers like Wardo, 

870
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,480
Molo, Hendrix, Sam. 
Wardo Molo. 

871
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,600
And Ron, who has been popping up
a lot more, but yeah, shout out 

872
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,760
to him. 
I'll definitely be listening to 

873
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:25,720
that a little bit more. 
And Mudoka, Mudoka released 

874
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:28,920
Caribbea Kudoga, which is very 
R&B. 

875
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,400
It almost sounds like a like a 
like Anjai song. 

876
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,200
Sounds like Anjai song. 
I guess It's produced by one of 

877
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,480
the by Anjai's main collaborator
Kobe. 

878
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,640
Shout out to him also doing a 
lot of work, Ochiko Bethy and 

879
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,000
Joe P. 
Joe P The chef released Mama 

880
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,920
Milka, which is I think it is a 
protest song. 

881
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,480
It is. 
It is if I'm more wrong, but 

882
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:58,920
it's sounds like party vibes. 
So yeah, they managed to blend 

883
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,960
those two. 
Speaking of pretty songs, Ben 

884
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,800
Soul and Hendrick Sam teamed up 
to release War. 

885
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,840
I like some of the melodies. 
I like the seriousness, which he

886
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,600
brought it. 
There's just a lot of activist 

887
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,760
music going around. 
So yeah, shout to him. 

888
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,400
That might be it. 
I was diligent this week. 

889
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,000
I mean, I skimmed through a 
couple of stuff, but not much I 

890
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,680
can mention. 
So not much that resonated with 

891
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:25,600
me. 
Let me save myself. 

892
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,800
Not much that resonated with. 
Me so listen, Alfam was just you

893
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,600
know on YouTube as you do just 
watching videos and then I see 

894
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,000
Ochungulu family dropped you 
know they dropped the song. 

895
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,520
I was like they have a video 
Let's let's see they've been 

896
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,360
releasing music consistently in 
2025. 

897
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,080
So I was like, let me click 
play, you know, because I I I 

898
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,000
like what they do when they 
release music. 

899
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:56,240
And then I was like, hold on a 
minute, like this is this is 

900
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:58,480
different. 
Why is this one? 

901
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,640
It's Afrobeats 2. 
It sounds so clean and like 

902
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,520
polished. 
I was like, what is going on 

903
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,040
here? 
But I was so I was so thrown off

904
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,160
man. 
But then I was like, yo, this is

905
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,320
fire. 
Like it kind of shows the just 

906
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:19,040
the the level of what's the 
word, not malleability. 

907
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,680
What's the word when somebody is
able to do multiple things. 

908
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:25,760
Malleability. 
Sir, please help me here. 

909
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,480
English is tough. 
The level Level of adaptability.

910
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,080
Adaptability, yes, Yeah, the 
adaptability, not adaptability. 

911
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,360
Is it adaptability? 
OK, the range, let's just say 

912
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,440
the range, the range that 
Ochungulo family. 

913
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,240
Range. 
The range. 

914
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,520
Yeah. 
And it was just actually such a 

915
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,960
breath of fresh air to see them 
doing something like, super 

916
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,120
like, different. 
And I just like, you know, 

917
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,480
that's kind of crazy. 
I was pleasantly surprised, and 

918
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,560
I think they did a good job. 
So yeah man, for the end of the 

919
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,760
podcast I definitely want to 
play Mazzone Wameja by Ochungulo

920
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:25,760
Family and Tango. 
None. 

921
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:35,920
The. 
Checking my. 

922
00:53:14,320 --> 00:54:31,560
None. 
Police station. 

923
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:18,920
That was Mazzone Wameja by 
Ochungulo family and Thanko and 

924
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,360
yeah, man, shout out to them. 
That was actually tough. 

925
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:29,520
That was a dope listen W video. 
So yeah, man, yeah, that's 

926
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:34,040
episode 138 Sam, that that was a
great episode. 

927
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,360
We just did right there. 
If we do so, if we do say so 

928
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:43,840
ourselves. 
And so why are you leaving me on

929
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,400
the ledge? 
Why are you leaving me on the 

930
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:46,680
ledge like this? 
I hate you. 

931
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,400
Know just be stepping out of the
ledge thinking I'm walking 

932
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,400
behind you. 
Yeah, you're supposed to step by

933
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,120
yourself. 
Bro anyway. 

934
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,280
Scenes by yourself, man, back 
here. 

935
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,320
Oh my God, if you're new for to 
this podcast, I usually like to 

936
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:03,960
end the podcast with the three 
CS and this is sort of like a 

937
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:09,560
mantra device for myself to kind
of follow as I go on this path 

938
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,480
of being in the music industry. 
The first C is confidence. 

939
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,360
You have to be confident in your
work. 

940
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,000
That's what people will see 
first, and that's what's going 

941
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,920
to convince them to listen to 
your music #2 is consistency. 

942
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:30,280
You have to be consistent. 
In this period of just in 2025, 

943
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,240
so many people are releasing 
music. 

944
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,240
If you're not consistent, you're
just going to get left behind. 

945
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,360
So always try to be consistent 
in both higher releasing music 

946
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,920
and also how you are creating 
it, because the more 

947
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,080
consistently you are making the 
music, the better you'll be. 

948
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:53,400
And #3 is craft. 
Always, always work on your 

949
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,760
craft. 
Always strive to improve. 

950
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:03,400
Watch tutorials, read something,
read a publication, watch 

951
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,440
somebody on TikTok talking about
the new way to, I don't know, 

952
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,480
make beats or do vocal warmups 
or something. 

953
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,800
You know, just try and work on 
your craft a little bit. 

954
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:17,840
You don't have to spend a lot of
time. 

955
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,800
You can spend 5 minutes 
literally, and that could be the

956
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,720
difference between you making it
and you're not because those 5 

957
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,840
minutes every day really amounts
to a lot of time. 

958
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:39,920
So those are the three CS and 
the fourth C is crime is not 

959
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:48,200
good and let's all strive to 
stay within the anyway, the Sam.

960
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:53,200
Alright guys, we will catch you 
guys in episode 139. 

961
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,880
That was Alpha and. 
He, that was me, that was me. 

962
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,760
I don't know what's going on. 
And that's Sam saving me. 

963
00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:02,560
So we will see you on episode 
139. 

964
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:04,840
Yikes.