I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but have you
ever been listening to, let's say, R&B, right?
And then you look at all the girls who are doing R&B, for
example, even the guys and all of them just somehow by luck,
all of them seem to just miraculously all be attractive.
I don't know if you've ever not. Been attractive?
Have you ever? It's incredible, especially
conventional. Right.
Yo, what's up guys? And welcome to episode 138 of
the 30% podcast. I go by the name AFA Mefina.
My Co host goes by the name Sam Jedediah Ari and we are the 30%
podcast, a podcast dedicated to Kenyan music where we talk about
what's happening, what's popping, and we give you our
insight from the perspective of two Kenyan music producers.
Sam, what you up to? Actually, before you tell us
what you're up to, I have a question for you.
So. So I want to ask you this
question. It's a philosophical ish type.
Of fun. OK, I love me some philosophy.
No, it's not philosophical. No, no, no, no.
It's actually not philosophical like that, but like it's a would
you rather, but would you rather as a kind of like philosophical
questions. If you think about it anyway,
would you rather be on death row for a crime that you did not
commit? No.
And the most important person in your life is free, but they
committed the crime. So whoever the most important
person in your life is like, maybe it's your mom who
committed the crime, but you're on death row for that in her
place. Or would you rather be free?
No, wait, hold on. Or would you rather be free and
the most important person in your life is on death row for a
crime you committed? If.
You commit the crime, you do the time.
That's it, man. I'm so sorry.
Like, yeah, you did something terrible.
Listen, I love you with all my heart.
I would bring you. What do you call commissary?
I'll, I'll, I'll help you out. But you you have to go sit down,
man. Go.
Go sit and just think about make better choices.
So you would. You would, so you wouldn't be on
death row on behalf of the most important person in your life.
That doesn't make sense, no. Like if you had a child.
So if you had a child, let's say you had a child, you only.
Child, I don't like this because it's going to make me sound
terrible. It's going to make me sound
terrible. I had an only child and that
only child decided to do OK. Did this only child asking the
question? No did this only child did they
caught like when he was out with a gang and and they it was
annoying. He did the crime knowingly.
It's not like something was pinned on him.
He actually didn't knowingly. No, listen, listen.
We're not even getting into specifics.
No, we have to get into specifics because I'm not going
to sit down on on, on a very unspecific issue.
I'm not going to. I'm not going to lose my life.
We're not doing that for unspecifics.
No, we have to get into specifics.
No, listen, Hey, you do the crime, you do that.
So you, you wow, really? So which, which option would you
rather then? So you'd rather the second one,
somebody sitting in for a crime that you committed?
You know you only have two options here.
Only if I don't know about it. If I know about it, then yeah,
I've done the time. No.
You know about it. You know about it, you know.
This will never happen in real life.
Like if I've done the crime, I'm not just going to let someone,
the guilt will kill me. Are you kidding me?
Someone is on death row for something I did and I know about
it and I'm just sitting around and, and this it's someone who I
know and love. That's not going to happen.
The guilt will absolutely die before that person is is sits on
that chair. I'll, I'll be done.
So essentially what you're saying is you'd rather the first
option, which is sitting in for somebody who's important to you?
No. If they did the crime, no.
You only have two options. Some this is, some you only have
two. Would you rather this is the
problem with would you rather though that's such imperfect
scenarios, like it doesn't make much sense.
There's such imperfect scenarios.
Yeah, no. Because it's meant no, because
it's meant to put you on in like on the spot.
That's why. That's why would you rather.
Putting me on two different spots at work.
That's not how this works. That's not how there's no OK
what would you rather do? That's how would you rather?
Oh, I, I, no, I would rather sit in for the person who I love,
like who's the most important to me.
Yeah, I'd, I'd, I'd take that charge, man.
Oh, like if we're talking about the two options, like I'm not
going to like, like be free when I know somebody.
All right, let's. Let's like who I love is sitting
in. Let's make this interesting.
You just won the lottery, $600 million.
OK, no one knows it but. You million or billion?
No mill 600 million or billion that's.
OK, let's let's make it, let's make it a light 200 billion,
just a light very light 200, a very light achievable 200
billion, right? So you just you just stumbled on
that Elon Musk just slid you a couple of dollars, right And
then, OK. Let's not make it Elon, because
I don't like that guy. But OK, 200 billion, I'm I'm on
board. I'm on board.
Not Elon. Then pick a random Kenyan
billionaire and that your love don't commit a crime and then
you have to go sit down for it. But you can't give this money to
them. It's either you spend it or it
doesn't get spent at all. Are you still going to sit down
or would you would you prefer? Wait, what's your question?
Would you? Would you still?
Prefer that option or would you would you rather be outside and
spend your money? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold
on, hold on. So wait, I just want to get the
question right. So I I got 200 billion.
It's the same scenario you asked.
Me. The only difference is you have
money. You just got 200, Bill.
Oh, I don't want death row for life.
Yeah, I mean, death row is like that.
I mean. Yeah, yeah.
You don't get, you don't get easy.
They definitely won't give you that to you.
There's nothing you can buy in prison for that much.
So yeah, that money is just going to waste.
Away and I and I can't pass on that money.
No, no. You.
You can't. If anyone else knows about that
money, it's gone. And I'm sitting in for
something. Just say, just just say you're
going to be out. No, no, no.
Just say you're going to be. I'm sitting in.
No, Sam, I'm sitting in for something that they did.
Yeah, no, no spending the money. I told you all you need to do,
All you need to do is throw in some money and it makes these
choices way easier. Would you rather it would be a
lot easier to just bring some amount into it?
That's that's crazy, but it's facts though.
Thanks for being. On I'm so ashamed at how I've
switched off, but I'm I'm so yeah.
Yeah, myself. Now we know what you value.
Bringing me if. You want affirm to do anything?
For you, no what? Look what you're.
Doing D hem in DM1 with a with with an amount and D.
Hem, yeah. D Hem.
Let's all make fun of something D Hem.
No, not after your moral, your moral.
Some have you been? Have you what you what you've
been up to, man? Yeah, I've been cool staying
outside of the snow. Well, it's not snowing, but it
feels like it. It's terribly cold and I've,
yeah, just been chilling on on Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday,
Wednesday, I was outside. I was outside.
The legendary Flyer was playing Love Flyer.
His his. I think he's a very he's a very
conscious musician. His lyrics are always laden with
truth and activism and something.
And meaning? And meaning, yes, so and he
doesn't do much shows. So once I heard that he was he
was out at the Beer District on this past Wednesday.
So it was cool. I got there a little bit late
just because I'm so sorry. I underestimated.
I was like, OK, I'm going to go there and you know it's going to
be light. I'm just going to find a spot.
I got there and that place was packed.
Flyer had everyone outside. It was such a cool thing to see
though. Just seeing his growth and then
everyone who was rocking with him, singing his songs word for
word and everything like that was that was amazing.
So shout out to him. So that's what I was doing that
I tried to go out for that. I wanted to go out for Lisa and
Chris Bars, 2 musicians who I absolutely love.
They they had a show, I want to say maybe it was Thursday,
Thursday or Friday, I don't remember.
I wanted to go for that, but I couldn't.
I felt so bummed by that. But I'm just trying to go,
trying to go for more shows and see more artists outside as well
as DJs and whatnot. So yeah, that's really what I've
been up to. Apart from that, nothing else
interesting. I've been watching Married at
First Sight. I don't know whether that's
interesting enough. It's such an interesting show.
Like it's, it's just, it's. What is it about?
It's it's exactly what it is. Married at first sight, where
the first time they it's reality.
You meet your wife or husband for the first time when you're
marrying them, and then you go. Hey, Sam, Sam, listen, listen,
listen. Only one podcaster at a time is
allowed to watch reality TV. We're giving.
No, I don't watch a lot of reality TV.
It's just Married at First Sight, it's Survivor, and it's
Amazing Race. All the others are kind of
ridiculous to me. Your survivor.
No survivor bangs man. Survivor is actually low key
very underrated. It's.
Good, I didn't know you were a survivor.
I'm a huge survivor. You're a.
Survivor first wait. It's it's I stopped watching it
though because started making me feel bad because people are so
vindictive. I feel I feel negative energy
when they just backstab each other in blind side.
I just feel bad because it's like why?
And they're starving. What was your starving bro?
What was your favorite season? Real quick, what's your
favorite? I don't know what my favorites.
Ah man, I might have to do some some research.
Mine has to be season Season 20 Heroes versus villains.
Mine is the one that one was is the one with poverty.
That's what it was do. You remember poverty, The
legendary poverty. Oh, Pavati, Pavati.
The, the, the, yeah, I think that's season.
I believe that's like season 16. Yeah, something like that.
My my other favorite season. And then we I promise you guys,
this is a music industry podcast.
But then I think my favorite season is the one for what was
his name? He was such a likable guy.
He wore glasses. I found it.
My favorite season was I think it was the David versus Goliath
season because everybody loves a season where it's like about
underdogs, like the people who get bullied in.
School versus it doesn't matter because they're going to end up
getting switched up at some. I know, I know, I know, I know.
Like, it's always so like, it doesn't make sense like at the
end of the season, but oh, Christian was my guy, bro.
I was the biggest Christian fan. Like, like, I don't know why.
I really just resonated with his vibe.
Like he was so cool. Anyway, enough about Survivor,
more about me surviving New York.
So what I've been up to is I know, I know.
I really worked on that one. Yeah, I know.
I've been, I've been good listening to a bunch of music.
As you guys might know, I have a series where I highlight music
on my TikTok and I've just been going down the rabbit hole just
finding artists and stuff like that and it's so fun.
It's so fun. I've actually been finding like
some really, really dope talented Kenyan artists and I'm
like bro, why does this song have 1000 views on YouTube?
I'm like this should be so much more.
I found some guy called Mark Bruce.
So fired. Like shout out to him.
These are these are the guys super and dance.
Although they had like they're starting to like really, really
pop off. They had like a post on Nairobi
Gossip club. So it's just it's just really
fun. They have a song called Nico on
that's like an abandoned song called Nico on that's like
starting to like pop off and I'm just like it's so fun.
It's fun finding those. Gems, man, like then one of the
yeah, it's. Exactly, just to like discover
something amazing. Like, like, I can't imagine,
like the first person who like, I don't know, listen to let's
say Wadaglis, for example. And it's like you these guys are
going to pop off or like, you know, toxic, really Cali.
And you're like, yo, this is the future.
And and then he actually goes on to like become the biggest or
one of the biggest artists of 2025.
Like I I just love that feeling of being there before something
happens. So yeah, I was just kind of
spent my whole week chasing that, chasing that feeling,
definitely. Oh man.
Yeah, I'm chasing the dragon, bro.
That's my dragon right there, man.
Actually, what does that mean? I don't, I think.
I feel like that's the dragon has like.
Yeah, it's it has to do with it. I feel like it has a dark
feeling. Yeah, it's more used in in drug
circles, just in the dragon. It's just in the high, the first
high you get when you take. Oh, that's what That's what it.
Is so you spend the rest of your life trying to chase the time,
but you're never going to get there.
That's why you do more and more and you get sensitized to it.
Oh, what did you think? What did you think it was?
I don't, I don't know. I thought it was.
Not saying epic. So you thought they were talking
about actual Dragons? It was a saying.
Oh goodness. Yeah, better.
It was just Dragons anyway. No, it's not.
So let's get into the podcast today.
So there's a there's a conversation I want to have with
you, Sam. And so there's this producer,
he's called Liza Classic. I say this producer, but he's
worked with Wasafi. And he's like one of the biggest
producers and engineers out of out of East Africa, I would say,
but then mostly East Africa. And he he, he went on a posting
spree on his story, kind of talking about the fact that
nobody cares about your music unless you're popular.
And he gave a few examples about how the, your, you know, you
could have the greatest music, but if you're not popular,
people are not going to flock around your music to listen to
you. And he gave the example that,
you know, a lot of the popularity that we see, you
know, like there's a lot that goes into it.
Sometimes there's going to be somebody funding the popularity
of finding just this conversation starters behind
these artists and stuff like that.
Usually it might be a label and they'll take a percentage
because, you know, that's kind of how you get people to pay
attention to you or just even indulge in in your music.
And I wanted to, to, to ask, do you do you agree with this?
Like, do you think it's true? Like nobody cares about your
music unless you're popular. Does that actually hold any
weight? You just with that, with that
question, I think you just triggered every artist
everywhere and just taking the flashbacks.
They haven't flashbacks, just crying, going back and listening
to the older songs. I think it's true.
I think it's very true. I think it's true because of how
society functions. I think people, people are.
When you live in a community, you tend to gravitate towards
the community so that you can have some sort of acceptance,
feeling, a feeling of belonging. And so it doesn't matter what
you like individually. A lot of the times, of course, I
think, I think that's changed recently because people are,
there's, there's a bigger, there's a bigger story in terms
of being yourself and being your true self.
And that's something that has been pushed recently.
But it doesn't matter what you like individually because it's
it's like, it's like when you, when you go for a show or you
go, let's say you're hanging out with your friends and they pass
you the ox and the song you've been vibing to the whole week,
just having a blast. You have it on repeat numerous
times and then you play it and, and you get no reaction from, I
don't know if you've heard those words before.
Absolutely no reaction from everyone.
And it's just like, OK, who is this?
It's really cool. The feeling you feel inside is
like, oh snap. Like is there something wrong
with my taste? And that's just how society.
It's like you have been stabbed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Stabbed
like you betrayed yourself, like you're not that cool anymore.
And this is how society is is we tend to gravitate towards what
other people think is cool. So when it comes to a musician,
definitely because music, music is a very it speaks to people
individually and as community. And so there's there are times
where you will not really get much attention because the
individuals that you're speaking to are not part of the mass or
they don't, they don't belong to that whole group musically at
least. So it's only when the group gets
window view, that's when everything starts to move and
meaning is only given to numbers unfortunately.
Wait, wait, wait. So are you trying to tell me
that that's what like the artist listening to this podcast need
to start chasing because bro, there's only so much popularity
can do for you. I know that's a difficult
question, but how? How far can popularity really
take? You.
Well, popularity effects everything.
It does, but like we've seen some artists who have high
popularity but they're not that much talent and eventually it
fizzles out. Unfortunately, popularity
doesn't lend itself to longevity.
Yeah, unfortunately the industry is not geared towards longevity
anymore either way. So it I guess it works for
everyone and they're actually looking for.
Yeah, but it's true. They're actually looking like,
if you think about it like with the the labels are not looking
for stars anymore. They're looking for popular
people. They're looking for people with
numbers and traction, mostly on social media, so they're just.
Looking for a quick lick. They're looking for Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Yeah, and now they're signing
songs that blew up overnight with no intention of growing
that artists and signing them for ridiculous numbers.
And so it's just that popularity.
But that OK. But in my opinion that feels
very very short sighted though I don't know.
Well, it's short sighted from your point of view from the
level levels point. From my narrow perspective.
From my itsy bitsy perspective. Yeah, from from your very ill
informed. Wait, wait, so are you, are you
trying to say that like from the label, it's just like these
people are extremely replaceable.
So like you can you you go with what's hot for the next 6
months, then you find the next one for the next 6 months, then
you find the next one for the next 6 months and you just keep
on surviving. That, that's the thing I don't I
don't even think the labels are they're thinking about who can
we replace? I don't think they're good
They're not thinking about the person they're thinking about
what that person can do. And so it's like this is hot
right now let's get get a contract ready and cash in and
then it's like really quick investments.
So they're not investing in people they're investing in
moments and songs. And so now as an artist, if your
song isn't popular, you're you have a very small chance now
that trickles down to like the indie artist level.
The artist was just starting out because again, you could post
all you want to post on social media and everything, but then
the moment, the moment ADJ plays, let's say you're doing
EDM, the moment ADJ plays that Afro house joint that you made
and because of the nature of being, because of the nature of
the dance floor, right? And people will hear the song
and it just came at the right time.
The DJ slotted it in right after that pre banger and slotted in
your song and now everyone is vibing to it.
Now that Shazam's go up and all of a sudden you have a hit on
your hands. That song has been out for a
year, right? It's been out for a year, but no
one knew it. The only now and that's when
people really start rocking with you and that's when all the
opportunities come in. Before that, I'm pretty sure
some of these artists, like artists like Sophie and Zoe and
them, they were releasing music before, but the moment they got
that hit and they became Uber popular, that's where now
everyone, the phone phones start buzzing.
It's terrible, but that's. But that's super annoying to me.
So are you are you trying to say
like song X could? So, so let's talk about song X
in the context of two separate futures or two separate
timelines. So some song X could have been
released and it just did absolutely nothing.
And but then the same song X could have been released and
then for some reason goes viral or gets popular and the same the
song gets cheated completely differently just because of how
people. Completely different, yeah,
because of how people, because our people took it, that's how
the. Context in which they they.
Yeah, that's happened to where where artists have released
released music. The release song may be taken
off of us and maybe redone one verse a little bit or switch the
hook around and done something. And then they release the same
song that did not do well. Then all of a sudden it blows up
and now everybody's like, bro, this is the most amazing thing.
So much so that they go back and delete the old one and
completely get rid of any trace of it.
But that's just because it was accepted.
Now that it's accepted, now all of a sudden that song has worth.
Which is ridiculous. OK, but I I, but I I I, I
disagree. I disagree with the sentiment
that. So for me personally, I think
guess what Liza class classic is saying is true.
Like popularity is the thing that sells or no one cares about
your music unless you're popular.
But I think that's a pathway that only ends in tears because
that popularity only lasts for so long.
And then after that you're you're finished, you're done and
people will move on to someone, someone else.
So me personally, I would say as an artist, like I think it's
better to chase longevity than it is to chase popularity
because yeah, fine, you can get the hit song today or not even
the hit song. You can you can you can do the
you can make the viral TikTok that makes you super popular
today, but generally, how long are you going to be able to keep
that yeah. How long are you going to be
able to keep up that attention and and then what happens to
your music once that attention fades away?
You know what I mean? So I think it's better to invest
in your music and then just figure out a way where like the
popularity and the music kind of like intersect and you start
doing well because honestly, it just ends up in tears.
Like you see the likes of and I know this is not a Kenyan
example but like ice spice bro. Where is she bro?
Where did she go? What happened to Ice Spice, by
the way? What's Ice Spice doing today?
And and she gets so much hate nowadays anytime she releases
music because it's just like this shit is trash or whatever,
but but everybody. It's the same music.
When she used to release. Me.
Yeah, the same music. And the problem is no, but the
problem is but but some, some the problem is the same people
who hyped you up during your popularity.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's same people who are
going to shit on your music when it's when those are when the
popularity isn't like. Those are the sheepiest of the
sheep. Honestly, those people are the
they're the worst. They're the ones who like when a
wolf shows up they they run into the middle of the park so that
they don't get eaten first. Those that's sheep sheep
mentality. It's terrible popularity Has
very negative Popularity in music I guess has very negative,
not negative. Sorry.
It has a bunch of cons #1 not all good music is popular,
right? Sometimes people choose just the
most ratchet music for for and, and makes, makes it popular.
And that of course, would now affect the, the, the field.
Because if the labels are controlling everything and they
look at that kind of music as all right, this is really what's
selling, then they're going to start telling their bigger
artists to go towards that. We've seen that a lot in the
industry where artists have come out saying that the label forced
them to do something that they were not comfortable with.
And it's just all in the name of all right, This is what the
people are even. And big artists go through that
too. It's not just a smaller artist
where because popularity is equals to money.
That's the direct translation. So they end up just compromising
and it's terrible. And as a new and and.
And, but, but I, I, I think, sorry, sorry to interrupt, but
I'm just going to say it like, I feel like the, the, what the
music industry does in chasing popularity, it really limits
just how broad and diverse the music industry could be.
Because like, like you see, and I've, and this is something that
I've talked about before about just how, I don't know if this
is going to be controversial, but have you ever been listening
to, let's say, R&B, right? And then you look at all the
girls who are doing R&B, for example, even the guys, and all
of them just somehow by luck, all of them seem to just
miraculously all be attractive. I don't know if you've ever.
Mentioned any attractive have you ever It's incredible,
especially conventional. Right.
Like it's, it's, it's, it's such a weird like observation I've
made. Like there's no way all of these
people just are. Like all of them seem to just be
conventionally attractive just like that.
That's really horrible. No way that's terrible.
It's. Unless it's something that the
music industry is is intentionally doing.
Because let's face it, being attractive is linked to
popularity. If you're attractive, people
want to like like. They have a higher tolerance.
For you people, people want to interact with you way more
exactly right? And it's so stupid in my opinion
because, and I don't know if this is a mean thing to say, non
conventionally attractive people make good music too, right?
That also have talent, but the truth we are, there's talent.
There's talent there, man. That's something that only
exists in talent. Is that something that only
exists in the female industry? Do that for men as well.
No, it it it doesn't. But it's it's way more
prevalent. In the female in the female,
well, we know that because of just how like, I mean how
females tend to be the face of beauty in the world, so.
But it's it's stupid in my opinion man.
Like because most of the most of the non conventionally
attractive like artists end up either just being left behind as
like songwriters. That's so sad bro, that's so sad
but that's crazy. But then also also the non
conventionally attractive artists need to do way more
because let's be honest, there's still people who aren't like
heralded as conventionally attractive who still like break
the mold and and do very well. But they have to be.
Incredibly. Talented, like super, really
talented to really, really break the mold and like do something
that's crazy, you know what I mean?
Or have this longevity, like you have to be like really insanely
good to do that at the same time.
And it's just sucks, man. Like, I don't know, this whole
popularity thing and then it being attached to fashion or
looks and this and that and the third like.
Yeah. What would you advise to an
artist? Let's say you have you, you,
you. You have a label, you have a new
artist, and they're kind of going through this, this dilemma
of trying to make popular music versus trying to stay true,
true, true to themselves. Goodness.
What would you advise them? What, what, what, what are you
trying to? Or rather, what type of
mentality would you try and build up in a young artist to be
able to navigate? Well #1 you #1 you always have
to stay true to yourself, otherwise you will get extremely
burnt out, like they will reach a point where you just cannot
keep up the facade. So you always have to be true to
yourself. You know what I mean?
And we see this happen all the time where artists, like, they
jump out of the gate being super weird and different and quirky
just to gain attention. And then once they get the
success, they kind of revert to their default settings, IE
Billie Eilish, for example. You know, we saw how she popped
off and then get after that whole hype and that whole phase
kind of went back to the what she's actually like.
Yeah, what she's actually like, which which, you know, I really
like both versions of Billie Eilish, right.
So you always have to stay authentic.
J. Cole, usually he had an
interview where he said the music industry requires you to
give before you can take. And that's that's also wise.
But to a certain extent, he's like back in when he started
out, he used to like kind of feed into the stereotype of hip
hop and wear chains and be outside with all the girls and
in the parties and all that stuff because that's what people
wanted to see. And then once he got, I know.
But once he got to his level of success, he went back into
himself. He grew out his dreads and.
Bought a bike? He started riding his bike
around, Yeah, he's not riding his bike around New York, like,
and that's who he actually. Ran into him he.
Gave the industry what it No, not yet, I will.
No, if you do, if you do, tell him I make.
It's cross, Sam. It's crossed my mind.
Well, I'm sorry to tell you this, Sam, but I will tell him I
make the beats. First, no bro, you have to put
your friend down before you. What kind of There's no loyalty
in this world? No, I'm loyal to you, but like I
will ask. Him I have divisions on J.
Cole. I'm sorry bro.
If I was out there I'd I'd say alpha beats before I say make.
I make beats. What kind of friend are you bro?
This is crazy. That is, that is just human
nature. But anyway, but it has crossed
my mind, yeah, because you do the same.
Because you do the same. Anyway, it's crossed my mind if
I'd run into him. But anyway, the point is, yeah,
to some extent you do have to give the industry what it wants
before you can take what you want from it.
That, but that you see, there's a line there because how much do
you want to give the industry? And, and, and, and that's where
your morals kind of like come into question because you can go
down a deep dark Rd. If you're just giving the
industry everything it wants and that's a conversation for
another day. It can get very deep.
And I guess it's on my point just to wrap up, I so we
shouldn't always demonize popularity because popularity is
really what takes like small artists to the big stage.
Like once your music becomes popular, then you can earn off
it. So it's I think it just depends
on what popularity is being used for.
If it's been used for like a quick leak and just getting some
quick money and or whatever, then that's when it feels like
you're cheapening the art. But then if you're actually
working. And I think we do not good,
sorry to interrupt, but like I do think we need to demonize it
because unfortunately it's the it's the former and not the
latter because most times or more often than not, it's used
for the quick leaks. Can we say that?
Used for the surface level or short sighted like goals.
But all the small artists do. And because.
Yes, I do agree with you. Become big because of
popularity, so without it you don't really have much.
It's a catalyst to the next level, I guess.
So I guess then what you're saying is like, who is using the
oh, who is using popularity as a tool?
Because most times when the, when, when the machine is using
it, it's, it's nefarious. I don't know.
I, I'm still torn nefarious. I'm still torn, though.
I, I, I feel like I'm still, I still wish good music would
shine through because it's good, not because the artist is
popular. Nope, not when money is
involved, I guess. Nope.
Hey, if you're a small artist, don't worry about popularity.
Just worry about making good music.
Worry about making good music and just keep making good music.
And at some point, someone will like it so much that they'll
share to with their friend and that friend will like, like
there's a point where your music just starts to live and just
just gets life becomes alive. And that's when you get
traction. But you have to keep stressing
until then. So and that's that's words to
everyone, including myself. Yeah, words to live by.
Yeah, I was asking, do you want to talk about some popular
artists who happen to have a show in France?
Yeah, but this might be the 70th time in a row we're talking
about Bien. But then Bien was out there
having a show in France, Matata Matata, who were actually
present in the the the they showed up one of the days for
the. The beat camp the beat.
Camp, yeah, they showed up on one of the days came and then
they were really rocking with some stuff.
Then they had to leave. I guess they went to France.
They didn't come back, but yeah, yeah, they're supposed to return
in the evening. I just do that a lot.
Oh, man, we're really rocking with this.
Man, This is crazy. This.
And then they went the next. Time you saw them.
You saw them like in front of a. Car yeah like yo bro, like what
we're working on a song. I thought you were going to come
down and leave vocals. I thought you said that this
this one was a nature the most with you.
But anyway, so they were out there, sold their show out,
which is great. That's good news, isn't it for
us. Wow.
Sorry to interrupt. Wait, sorry to interrupt you,
but artists need to stop doing that.
Artists always be in the studio sessions with each other saying
yo this shit is this shit is is astronomical man.
Yo, we need to read this. The one.
Yo, we got one bro. We got one man.
Yeah, bro, whole time, you know, they know in their head we're
never working again. They just tried to make the
producer because producers, producers are very, we're very
fragile beings. Our feelings must be protected.
Oh yeah, Producers were so sad.
Producers were just like, Oh my God, I have a song with this guy
called All time. This guy doesn't care about that
at. All at all doesn't care.
But anyway, just lie to me. Lie to me, please.
So they were out there, sold out show that.
That's a good show too. I'm thinking like Bien and
Matata is a really good show. Did they?
I don't want to be wrong, but do they have a collaboration
together? Yeah, it's called, it's called
mfishi. Mfishi.
It came out two months ago. Yeah, it's a it's a hit.
It's a hit. It's a hit, hit.
Having a collaboration together, I'm sure they're they're out
there performing that song and it's just cool.
It's cool, it's cool. I love to see sold out shows
from Kenyan artists who are not necessarily based out.
OK well no, Matata is based out there though.
Based out in Norway? That's BN is based here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Norway, I knew it was.
I knew it was one of those Scandinavian.
But here I was saying the interesting thing about France
is, bro, France is really tapped into like African music like
they are really. And then I guess it's because a
lot of Africans are out there. Well, that's 1/2 of the joke.
The other half is not so. OK, colonialism does have a part
to play this because hey, look at you look at the France like
the French national team and it's a bunch of Africans, right?
So, yeah, there is, there is an undeniable link between African
music and France. And yeah, I, I, I like it.
I like, I like the fact that they're out there.
I hope they're really collaborating with the artists
out there as well, because there is definitely a market for
African music in in France. I'm telling you all right now,
because I was watching, I was just watching people out there
for the music and a lot of them were consuming a lot of like
Lingala, that Coupe de Cali sound like bro, that stuff out
there is so massive. There's another song that goes
we, we, we, we, OK, I don't that sound crazy right now, but that
song is so good, bro. It's like, it's like.
Because I wouldn't pick that up at all.
Bro, no, no, Shazam would pick that song up bro.
It's so catchy. Yeah, the song, the song is
called Bandit by this girl group called Holly G and it's called
and the song well in brackets it's called Wee Wee Wee.
It's so catchy. But that's the sound out there.
So you know, I'm also, I'm trying to see some Kenyans hope
on this sound as well. So I don't know, maybe we might
hear BN. The question, though, is that
would French music work here? We're always talking, I think
we're always talking about, about whether or not our music
would work outside. But then like, is there a chance
for the reverse? Like if they collaborate if
either Bien or Matata or all of them collaborate with a French
artist. Like will it do well here?
I think it would. I think it would because I mean,
we've seen, I know this isn't necessarily like French music,
but I've know a lot of French artists have also hopped on like
the compa wave and everything. And that's starting to like make
inroads into the Kenyan industry from people like In Bien to Ben
so ETC. So and Hendrick Sam has been a
big proponent of making compa like a more mainstream sound.
So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely sure that like people would be
open, like people are beginning to be open to like these
different like avenues of like African music that's not just
Afrobeat. So definitely see a future where
like this and if anything, me, I'm all on the wave man.
We have already started making like some like.
Are you doing compa music? Stuff.
Like are you making compa? Not compa, No, no, no, not
compa, but like like just like the Afro trap stuff that's been
happening. No, I I but I can't.
Are you trying to say that I can't?
Are you? Trying to challenge.
I'm just trying to say I just, I can't see it.
I can't see if I'm in the studio saying hi today we're going to
make a compa beat. I but I can if I wanted to I.
Can if I wanted to, but you wouldn't.
You would never wanted to. You would never want just to.
That's the thing, on your own, you wanna.
Do you wanna bet? I guess I.
Can let's bet if you make a competent is fire.
I will go on social media and no, I'm not going to put.
No, no, no, no, no, no. I was so locked.
In because no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's so boring, bro. I was actually so ready, but I
was already thinking about I've got to do this.
Please give me a good, Give me a no no, give me a good.
Oh no, man, what could be OK? You know what you choose, you
choose choose something that would happen if you actually
make a compa beat at, but you need to raise the stakes.
Because if I make a compa beat like, we need to raise the
stakes. If I make a good compa beat,
right, you have to go on social media, OK actually, but we need
we need people to like judge if the beat is.
Actually, here's a good yeah, but yeah, here's the this.
Is the 4th. There has to be other people
involved. It just can be.
That's fine, because I'm just going to say that's.
Fine, we can even leave it. We can leave it out to the to
the to our like the people who listen to the podcast.
Here's the here's the forfeit. We have to make a video.
So if I make a the the the beat and people think it's good Sam,
you have to make a video saying Afam was right and I and I Sam
was wrong. Alternatively, I'll do the same.
If the beat is trash, I have to make a video saying Sam was
right. And we have we give no context
on that video. We're posting it on our story,
on your Instagram story. And all I have to say is I'll do
a video and I'll say Sam was right and I affam was wrong.
And that story will be posted either on will be posted on our
own personal social media, our own personal Instagram and also
the podcast Instagram. Do you?
I really shouldn't have gone down this road, this.
Virtual handshake. But it's cool.
It's cool because I still not to say I don't believe in you, but.
Virtual handshake, Virtual handshake bet and what's the
timeline? What's the timeline?
How many tutorials do you need to watch?
Oh my God, I just need bro. I just need.
How many times? How much do I mean how much time
do you need to watch your tutorials?
Give me, give me, give me a week.
Give me a week, Give me a week. Alright.
By the time, By the time, OK, no, actually give me by the time
we are releasing the episode after this one.
So give me till Wednesday the one. 39.
Wednesday the 16th. Of July deal.
Deal. It's done.
Oh my God, Sam, you're going to
be so embarrassed. I feel so embarrassed for you
already. No, no, don't just jump to
victory. You've not embarrassed, you
don't jump to victory. I feel anytime some compound,
we're not we're not making some underground or take compound.
Yeah. No, no, no.
Compound I'll make. I'll make a proper compound.
I'll make a proper compound one. Oh my God, This is such a this
is such a Slumdog. Oh my God.
Wow, Eddie, Hey, listen. Some engagement farming I want.
You guys should also go and listen to all the music Alpha
must produced and then tell me if you think he's going to be
able to do it. But do it.
A lot of people doubted me, People, people didn't know I
could make, I could make Gengheton or Abanton or
whatever. And I did.
So watch. Watch this space anyway.
The compa is slightly different to Gengheton and Abanton, but
all right, cool. Let's see.
Let's see how it goes. Let's see how it goes.
There we go. Shout out to my Tata.
Shout out to be an out there doing their thing.
And shout out to me winning in the future.
Do you want to listen? Yeah, we're talking about other
artists here. You are all.
Right, new music, Sam and yeah, man, do you want me to start or
shoot? You actually let me start.
Let me start with what I let me start with what I listen to.
I listen to a song called Lazy by I Foolish featuring Blue and
Genesis. It's just kind of interesting to
see Genesis in conjunction with Kinna I Foolish.
But hey, he held his own. He held his own so well.
Actually, wait, what? The song came out.
He's a Kilimani. Well, some people would say he's
a Kilimani rapper, but he's not really a Kilimani rapper because
he doesn't do the Kilimani rapping thing.
But like, yeah anyway, the song came out a while ago but the
video was shot recently so I watched that and I just wanted
to shout it out. There was Kankari by Father MO
and Joe Fess. Bro I feel like Joe Fess
releases music every single week so that guy is just in the
studio. Quizzing.
Yeah, all the time. And then there was Gal Toto by
Buzi Gang and Fenna. Yeah, I feel like furthermore,
boozy gang, like bro, like I hear them every single week.
They release music all the time, which is a good strategy I guess
because like you get like people will hear you or have you in
front of their faces like all the time.
But the drawback is sometimes it can get fatiguing.
Anyway, shout out to them. I listened to back-to-back
again, Joffes and Johnny Benz, I listen to Caribbean Kidogo by
Mudoka, shout out to him. And the last song I want to
shout out is around by 34 Brick, Mauruguash and only MO.
Yeah. Fire.
I went like the first thing I went to listen to was Healing
Biokilo Max, which I want to say it is OK, I'm just going to say
it. Healing Biokilo Max 15 songs,
which is, I don't know if that's long for a Kenyan artist, 15
songs. But yeah, it was interesting,
interesting. Some interesting production on
there and him just doing his thing.
I need to listen to it again for something to really stick.
I feel like I'm still maybe getting used to him and probably
still getting used to his music. But yeah, a couple of artists on
their Breeders, on their vagina, Barbaro on their Iwai Tajiri,
attend the Wheelie Madika decks. You know, producers like Wardo,
Molo, Hendrix, Sam. Wardo Molo.
And Ron, who has been popping up a lot more, but yeah, shout out
to him. I'll definitely be listening to
that a little bit more. And Mudoka, Mudoka released
Caribbea Kudoga, which is very R&B.
It almost sounds like a like a like Anjai song.
Sounds like Anjai song. I guess It's produced by one of
the by Anjai's main collaborator Kobe.
Shout out to him also doing a lot of work, Ochiko Bethy and
Joe P. Joe P The chef released Mama
Milka, which is I think it is a protest song.
It is. It is if I'm more wrong, but
it's sounds like party vibes. So yeah, they managed to blend
those two. Speaking of pretty songs, Ben
Soul and Hendrick Sam teamed up to release War.
I like some of the melodies. I like the seriousness, which he
brought it. There's just a lot of activist
music going around. So yeah, shout to him.
That might be it. I was diligent this week.
I mean, I skimmed through a couple of stuff, but not much I
can mention. So not much that resonated with
me. Let me save myself.
Not much that resonated with. Me so listen, Alfam was just you
know on YouTube as you do just watching videos and then I see
Ochungulu family dropped you know they dropped the song.
I was like they have a video Let's let's see they've been
releasing music consistently in 2025.
So I was like, let me click play, you know, because I I I
like what they do when they release music.
And then I was like, hold on a minute, like this is this is
different. Why is this one?
It's Afrobeats 2. It sounds so clean and like
polished. I was like, what is going on
here? But I was so I was so thrown off
man. But then I was like, yo, this is
fire. Like it kind of shows the just
the the level of what's the word, not malleability.
What's the word when somebody is able to do multiple things.
Malleability. Sir, please help me here.
English is tough. The level Level of adaptability.
Adaptability, yes, Yeah, the adaptability, not adaptability.
Is it adaptability? OK, the range, let's just say
the range, the range that Ochungulo family.
Range. The range.
Yeah. And it was just actually such a
breath of fresh air to see them doing something like, super
like, different. And I just like, you know,
that's kind of crazy. I was pleasantly surprised, and
I think they did a good job. So yeah man, for the end of the
podcast I definitely want to play Mazzone Wameja by Ochungulo
Family and Tango. None.
The. Checking my.
None. Police station.
That was Mazzone Wameja by Ochungulo family and Thanko and
yeah, man, shout out to them. That was actually tough.
That was a dope listen W video. So yeah, man, yeah, that's
episode 138 Sam, that that was a great episode.
We just did right there. If we do so, if we do say so
ourselves. And so why are you leaving me on
the ledge? Why are you leaving me on the
ledge like this? I hate you.
Know just be stepping out of the ledge thinking I'm walking
behind you. Yeah, you're supposed to step by
yourself. Bro anyway.
Scenes by yourself, man, back here.
Oh my God, if you're new for to this podcast, I usually like to
end the podcast with the three CS and this is sort of like a
mantra device for myself to kind of follow as I go on this path
of being in the music industry. The first C is confidence.
You have to be confident in your work.
That's what people will see first, and that's what's going
to convince them to listen to your music #2 is consistency.
You have to be consistent. In this period of just in 2025,
so many people are releasing music.
If you're not consistent, you're just going to get left behind.
So always try to be consistent in both higher releasing music
and also how you are creating it, because the more
consistently you are making the music, the better you'll be.
And #3 is craft. Always, always work on your
craft. Always strive to improve.
Watch tutorials, read something, read a publication, watch
somebody on TikTok talking about the new way to, I don't know,
make beats or do vocal warmups or something.
You know, just try and work on your craft a little bit.
You don't have to spend a lot of time.
You can spend 5 minutes literally, and that could be the
difference between you making it and you're not because those 5
minutes every day really amounts to a lot of time.
So those are the three CS and the fourth C is crime is not
good and let's all strive to stay within the anyway, the Sam.
Alright guys, we will catch you guys in episode 139.
That was Alpha and. He, that was me, that was me.
I don't know what's going on. And that's Sam saving me.
So we will see you on episode 139.
Yikes.