Hard work pays, of course, but to a certain extent, there's
certain limits, you know, like the industry.
Might you? The industry has gatekeepers.
It's just a fact. And if the gatekeepers, for one
reason or another do not like you or do not feel motivated to
put you in the position, then there's only so far you can go.
Nobody's saying you can't organically get to a point,
because you can. The.
What's going on everyone? Welcome to episode 122 of the
30% broadcast. My name is Sam.
I am joined by our family for now.
What? You sound like you're dying.
It's not like no, this is this is like the cleanest.
This is the cleanest I've ever. Done.
And then and now there's an issue with.
It. I like it.
No, no, no. There's no issue.
I like it. I like it.
OK, cool. Yeah, that's what you get from
me. Yes, the 30% broadcast.
And like I said, Sam Afam, I don't know what else to say.
Man, intros are so awkward. Why do we do intros as human
beings? See, now, you didn't have to say
that. No, you were.
No, you were going so well. It was going so well, man.
Never miss an opportunity to to to have a dragged out philosophy
talk. Why do we do intros?
Why do we feel the need to introduce ourselves before we
speak? Like it was so cool if we
started a podcast and we just started talking.
So MCSK and then we just go into it like that's more intriguing
that hey guys, this is me. Hello.
Hi, you know who I. Am technically we kind of do no,
but technically we do that though like because our podcast
usually starts with an out of context clip.
So technically we do that. I think introductions are good
man. Like you just have to.
But I do like non conventional storytelling.
You know, you know storytelling where like the you know, when
the movie starts at the end, and then now when you see the
beginning is now when everything makes sense.
Like, wait, what's, what's an example of that?
Do you do you actually have an example of you just?
OK, so they did that one thing on Netflix called Kaleidoscope,
the one where you could choose the order which you watch the
the show, the episodes. It was an interesting concept.
I mean, it was a bit of a cliche.
No, The thing is, it was a bit of a cliche show because it was
like a money heist type thing, like where you you get like a
gang and then now you actually do the heist, whatever.
But I thought that was an interesting concept.
Is there a story I can think of like that off the top of my
head? I would struggle but I do like
stories that start like in the middle and then the end and then
the beginning like. Yeah.
Yeah, man, yeah, man. That's cool.
Yeah, that's that. What's going on?
What's going on, man, is I'm out here like in the streets of
Nairobi, just getting lit, getting mixy.
OK, let me stop. Let me actually be myself.
Let me be my nerd self. Why am I acting like yeah like
what's wrong? With me be a New York self.
No, my New York self is very introverted, by the way.
So yeah, bro, it's been, it's been a whirlwind, whirlwind of
like this past two weeks has been crazy, man.
Just been everywhere, man. Just trying to like, let me tell
you. I wish I could.
One slow down time 2 split myself into three because
there's so many people I want to see, so many things I want to do
and I feel like time is moving so fast like it's actually
insane like I really need. I need so much more time to do
what I need and then. If you split yourself into
three. Sorry.
Sorry to interrupt you this really important clarification.
If you split yourself into 3, is it 3/3 of the same exact you or
are there like 3 words like because the three would be like
one would be like an extroverted 3 because then you know where to
send that extroverted 3. The I mean that extroverted one
and then the other one is a more, you know, rational, more
thoughtful. So he handles family and you
know, his, his, his. And then there's the last one
who is just, I don't know, like what that and and if you split
yourself into 3, what personalities are you giving
those three and who are they going to see?
OK, so The thing is though, like that, that question is hard
because I feel like every bit of who I am contributes to where I
want to be. In the sense that if I, if I
want to be like with my family, I'll still need the fun aspects
of myself or the more extroverted aspects of myself.
You know what I mean? I still need to lean on those,
but for interests of conversation, yeah, I guess we
could do it like that. Like just the side of myself
that's with my friends, fun, whatever.
And then the more sensible, more like.
Yeah. You're a very.
Decent human being for my family.
And then maybe my creative side. Maybe I want to go hang out with
some creatives and make some music and do creative stuff.
Maybe that's what I would do. But those are the three aspects
of myself. Well, you can.
Sorry, it's just you. So you built all this up just to
like? Sorry man to bring me down.
Yes, that is exactly. Why I asked those questions?
Phenomenally. Specific questions.
Mean that is very mean Sam but anyway just to so that we're not
like yapping for too much yeah I it's been a really dope like 2
weeks. Honestly, if I could start it
again, I would start it again just so it doesn't end.
Been rolling out music? Yeah.
If you guys follow me on social media, you have seen that I'm
actively rolling out music. On.
Thursday exactly. Last Thursday I released a song
with the very talented Zoe Ken. Gotcha.
She was on a song called Top, which is the first single on my
EP. And Sam, let me tell you
something bro, Bro releasing music is something else,
especially when you are on the forefront because you and I are
used to releasing music. But like as producers and bro,
being on the forefront of things is just so difficult, man,
because it's like. Bro, you feel like you're
bearing your soul to the world. I feel like I feel so exposed.
I feel so exposed. Like you guys like me, like what
I've created. But that's the artist I know.
Yeah, that's what art is Good. So just keep that in mind when
you critique someone and they just released some music.
Like that's them bearing the soul and then you're like.
Mix horribly some If somebody was like yeah, yeah, yeah.
If somebody was like Yo Affan's music instruction, I might
crumble and die, followed by knees and be like please.
Take it back, please. No, that's it's, it's a very
vulnerable process. Maybe that's why I've not really
that much. That's the word, actually.
Yeah, it's very vulnerable. It's ridiculous.
It shouldn't be. Yeah, but it is.
But I, I want to take this time to just think everybody who's
been like reposting, there's people from the podcast who
listen to the podcast who have been really like, supportive.
So I just want to tell you guys, thank you so much, man.
And yeah, OK, you know, let me not be sentimental because.
I was just thinking, oh, here he.
Goes. I know, yeah.
But it's it's who I am. Why don't you want me to be
myself? OK, you're allowed.
You know what? You're allowed to be sentimental
2 times. So this time I'm going to, I'm
going to give you sentiment. And then when the when the
project drops fully you can be sentimental but for only like 5
minutes. I'm going to be so sentimental
on Friday anyway. Yeah, that, that that that's how
my week has panned that. How about yours?
That's cool. How was I was thinking about it
actually recently. I don't I'm working on so that I
mean, I've I've talked, I've talked about it enough.
So I don't really want to talk about it.
And there's a whole thing of until it's ready, don't like,
don't, don't tell people about it in case you don't end up
doing it. But then I've been working on
the lo fi stuff. I've been planning to release.
I'm getting excited for that. But then again, it's the
vulnerability. I'm like, what if one person
listens to it? But if that one person likes it,
I guess it's it's it works, right?
But yeah, yeah, it's just that preparing for that release
because I have been planning that for years now.
So it has to come out at some point and nothing else, nothing
else, just chilling, just chilling being outside do.
Do you want to tell people where they can find like very loosely
like, oh, I'm. So terrible at that.
No, no, no. So the the whole thing that I
don't want to say the concept again because of city, but then
it's loosely is a concept and really it's a collection of lo
fi music, of chill music, ambient, downtempo, just that
kind of relaxation. Almost it's almost what do you
call it? Like what's what's the genre
that like the genre that people listen to when they're mentally
disturbed to cum them? OK, that came out.
That's not that's not what I meant to say.
That's not what I meant to say. That's not what I meant to say.
So what's I can't it's oh man, I'm forgetting the term.
But then there's a term that of people.
There's a term of music that that really it's Oh no, see, I'm
even thinking about it wrong. Music therapy.
So it isn't exactly music therapy.
It's lo fi music. It's all that stuff.
But then it's more of like a chill, calming sometimes music.
But it's really it's a collection.
It's a collection. It's going to be me producing
people from all over our farm is going to be on there at some
point, just random producers from all over.
I want to make it more of a collection type thing where a
bunch of artists come together and then it's going to be under
the brand loosely. So yeah, it's just that I just
want to release some music. I want to because it's fun.
It's like music I make when it's when it's like intuitive.
I just want to create something soothing for the soul.
So it's like the type of music you listen to when you're just
relaxing or like when you wake up in the morning and you want
to meditate or you're going for a while.
It's just very, I mean, it's chill music.
So that's what it is. So yeah, planning on releasing
hopefully in a month I should be able to drop something.
And yeah, it's very loosely on Instagram, very loosely I think
as well on on YouTube, but there's nothing been released
yet. So yeah, that's not you're in
the middle of a roll out. So now I started to think about
whether or not I want to rule it out or if I just because it's
very simple. Like it's not an artistry thing
where we're taking photos or anything, but it's more the
music is the star. So yeah, yeah, it's just trying
to figure out how to. How to some be dramatic?
Bro what should be? Dramatic.
Where's the drama? Where's the?
No, it's there's no drama
associated with lofi music. It really isn't, but yeah.
Unless you, unless you make it. Unless I make it, life is what
you make it. For real.
I don't know, I don't agree, but yeah, it's just, it's just that
it's, it's, it's my brainchild, man.
And it's something I've been thinking about.
So I'm very emotionally attached to it and I probably shouldn't
be because people also don't care.
So anyway, if you want to check it out, I'll be releasing soon.
I care, I care. I care, Sam.
What bromance bromance on the podcast can we get?
Oh, so it's just that and then I guess we'll talk about it
outside. Outside this week.
Yes, Sir, we were invited by. Support the homies.
Yes, I was waiting for you to. I'll do like A tag.
Oh, oh you are, oh you are trying to tag me in.
Oh OK. We were invited by Support the
Homies as well as Sonnets on a Sofa.
So Sonnets on a Sofa is an initiative that was started.
By M Rumbi and Jiru and you can find them on Instagram.
The whole shtick is they pick music or they pick themes and
topics and beats out of a hat and then off the fly they just
write songs to them and they record it and they put it on
Instagram and you know what I mean?
So that's kind of the whole premise.
And Support the Homies is an initiative started by Pillow,
who makes music herself. And essentially it's just about
like community because there's so many upcoming creatives in
the industry. And I think when we're all
together, like we are more powerful, you know what I mean?
So it's kind of that kind of like, yeah, let's create like an
environment where we all support each other and we all grow
together. So they collaborated on this
event, which I will tag Sam in to tell us what.
It was about. What a great team.
Yeah. So it's a songwriting workshop
essentially, And I said a workshop, like a Nigerian
songwriting workshop. And so I mean, an open call for
a bunch of people to come through if you're interested in
songwriting and that side of things.
So they came an introduction to the SOAS and just collaborating,
I guess working, getting to so all right, it's you get to meet
artists and creatives. And then there's the aspect of
also like collaborating and writing a song because So what
what they had people do was get into like groups type thing.
And then you're given a prompt and a beat.
Haven't heard it before, don't know where the prompt is, but
you all now have to figure out and sit down and write a song.
And so that was very cool. That's.
I mean, I've never been to a workshop where people are forced
to come up with songs on the fly.
Like that's the first time. So that was a really interesting
experience. Yeah.
So shout out to them for that
initiative. I think it's before you get into
it, like the experience, my experience.
But then I think it's a very decent initiative actually.
You know what? Let's talk about after get into
the experience we all put in. Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, yeah, exactly. We will.
We will put in. So I would say quite a few.
People came like 30. I'm so bad when it comes to like
gauging numbers. I'm going to say they were like
30 to 35 people. Then we were put into groups,
four groups to be precise. And each group was had like just
like a because it was random. So had a mishmash of different
artists. Most of the artists were like
upcoming artists and still kind of like getting their food,
yeah, or getting their feet. Curious, curious, Curious about
some writing too. A bunch of people who are.
Yeah, exactly, exactly that. So and essentially what they did
was Njiru and Rumbi, who founded Sonas on a sofa, gave us like
two things. They gave us 2 prompts, they
gave us a beat and they gave us like a topic.
And it was actually. Very challenging because like,
you know, you didn't know what to expect and stuff like that.
So in my group we got, I believe it was lo fi and we were
supposed to talk about nostalgia or sing about nostalgia.
And so yeah, worked, worked on that with four other very
amazing, like, artists and yeah, just like learning how to like
write music in a group setting, you know, accommodate
everybody's like ideas. It's a lot of melody.
Harder than it looks like. How do boy bands?
Very. Yeah, What?
What? How does that work?
How do they deal with the egos? And just like, you know,
everybody wants to feel like they're a big part of the
project, you know? Yeah, yeah.
So, so yeah, it was such a dope experience.
And then obviously at the end everybody performed what they
did and they did it on a sofa. If you follow us on Instagram,
you'd have seen us poster behind the scenes so you would see how
it looked and yeah man. I think the groups, the groups
that sort of the groups that, yeah, our team.
I was going to say were voted some team won yeah because they
had a secret weapon. But it's fun.
No, don't do that. Yeah.
But. Don't do that.
Our secret, our secret weapon was unity.
Our secret weapon was unity and collaboration.
Just artistry. That's our secret weapon.
My my team, my team came lasted. I feel like crying but like no
they saw first of all my team we were called Lily.
I'm sad. We even made a bag.
OK, tell me the tell me, tell me the whole thing because I wanted
to ask but then I don't want to drag it out.
What's Lily? I'm sad.
It's just because we were, we were sitting next to a Lily.
So we just saw it and we're like fine, Lily.
I'm sad, but that's it. This is not too much.
OK. And we we made we made an
amazing song called Featured Nostalgia, which in my opinion
was the Best Song that came out on that day.
We were the best team. So I don't care what anyone
says. Like in my eyes, we were the
best. So yeah, subjectively.
Subjectively of course. But then objectively,
objectively the. Best.
No, there were votes and and anyway two teams are selected.
The team I was part of. Was selected our microphones,
our microphone. No, you're not doing that.
You're not blaming the microphones.
That's no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
They're not going to go down that way.
You're not blaming the microphones.
The microphones were fine for all the other groups.
You guys didn't know how to hold your microphones and you didn't
teach them. As a producer, I blame you
because you should have taught your team to hold of them joins
up. Well.
Is that hate that comes up with it?
No, no, I'm not hitting. No, I I think we'll First off,
First off, it's an initiative. So we shouldn't, I mean, it's a,
it's a new experience experiment type thing.
So we shouldn't all like for sure there are no winners.
We're all winners in room. I'm, I'm, I'm also just saying
this. I'm just saying this in jest
like. Yeah, but it was cool.
It was cool. So all winners, yeah.
Yeah, I think the songs that one would be showcase at some point,
but it's such an interesting experience.
Yeah. Because you don't have writing
is like sitting down. Of course, right now writing and
a bigger conversation. Writing is like one of the
backbones of the industry, right, In terms of like
songwriters and just the art of writing.
That's, I feel like that's an art in Kenya that we're just
starting to pay attention to. If I'm being honest with you, I
think we've not really focused on writers as individuals.
And now, like, who do you say? Of OK, sorry, sorry, go ahead.
Yeah. No, I'm just saying with the
rise of of like a couple of people in the modern in the
industry currently who seem to be pushing that idea of like the
pen, you know, and so it's starting, it's something that
we're starting to pay attention to.
So this is an interesting initiative.
What? What are we going to ask?
No, I was going to say who? He says.
Like one of the better songwriters in the country at
the moment. Oh, I mean so and this consent,
this is not from me, from what I've heard in terms of people, I
think. Stop giving us just oh.
No, I have to. No, no, no, no.
Wait, this is this thing is going out.
To the public, I'm not. I'm not Just going to give my
opinion without sanitizing. It out.
Put your corners on the table and.
Tell us we do no such thing. No, but I mean, some of the
names that that have been mentioned, of course Bien is in
there. I think Bien has been and just
being in the room while he's been writing, I think he's
definitely like up there. A name that is thrown around
when it comes to writing a lot is Iwai Tajiri.
Like he's becoming one of the post the poster boys for the the
Kenyan writing scene. Of course, Xenia has done more,
more international writing, but she's also written, I think, for
some artists here. So yeah, there's many, there's,
there's many. More Molly.
Molly goes under the radar. Xenia's brother.
Look at that. Keeping it in the family.
Molly is. Really good at songwriting, yes.
So it's a. That no, no, no, no, no, no.
That was so bad. That was such a bad joke.
Look what you're doing, you know, whenever.
This is coming from me, this is coming from me, and I'm
notorious for bad jokes. Yeah, I don't know.
But what do you want me to react to?
I don't know how to react to this situation.
No, but just getting back on track though.
Shout out to those guys. And the place was really
beautiful. It was at Kitovu Landing Center.
I believe that's what it's called.
And yeah, landing space. Yeah.
Something, something of the sort.
Iana was was present. Those of you who are tapped into
the niche and be seen will know Iana very well.
And yeah, man, it was just very, it was a very nice day.
It was very sunny, very supportive vibes and just
listening to everybody's music. We met so many different
artists. There was the rapper from
Mombasa called Trench, who just looks like he has so much
passion and hunger in his eyes. And I'm like, bro, I really want
this kid to win. Yeah, man.
So I, I really enjoyed. I really enjoyed the event and
hopefully they do, hopefully they do a few more and if they
do, we should definitely have people and well, you guys should
definitely think about attending.
Yeah, that was a. It was a, it was an interesting,
interesting, interesting, very cool day.
I mean, I, I, I do hope that as they continue, they involve
because this was the first one, right?
So it's, they're still, I guess they're still figuring it out,
but I think it's a very good initiative for sure.
And, and I hope that they begin to involve like now some of the
heavyweights in terms of, of, of the Kenyan scene and writers, I
mean, writers in the heavyweight writers, the most, the notable
guys who who have done like a lot of writing and are known for
that. So, so that they can just like
impart a little bit of knowledge to some of the newer songwriters
and stuff like that. And I think it'll be really good
if we begin to do that then have like songwriting camps and
things off the back of that. That would be a really good
initiative. But it's really cool.
Very cool, very chill crowd. Everyone at least participated.
And yeah, man, shout out to them.
Shout out to them for. To support the homies and SOAS.
Yeah, some. There's something that's been on
my mind heavily. Wait.
So actually, no, it has been like that.
Nothing is ever OK anyone's mind heavily, but OK, continue.
Last week I went to watch the new Captain America, which I
will tell you guys for free is a horrific movie.
You're not the only one who's saying that.
Another person who went to you know that is terrible.
Oh, do not spend your money on that movie.
It is so bad it is honestly it. It's so jarring.
It's like it could have been an e-mail.
They could have just said this is what happens in the movie.
Good luck. Guys.
It's so bad the production quality for Marvel has dropped.
So like it literally felt like I was watching ATV show.
I was not invested at all in the the Super villains and.
Why though? Anyway, did they switch up
Captain America? Like what?
What happened? No.
So Captain America now is Anthony Mackie, and that's not
even my problem. My problem is like it's just
felt so low budget man like. The Super villains were so
whack. I've never seen such whack.
Super villains in very life Defeatable.
So defeatable they felt like just regular people who had
issues with themselves. Anyway, that being said, the
reason I bring this up was actually because, well, Anthony
Marquis right now is on a press tour of course to promote the
the movie and. He had something very
interesting to say the other day, which got me thinking and I
wanted to bring it on the podcast because I wanted to have
this discussion with y'all. So I'm going to play the clip
of. From what Anthony Markey said, I
believe it was also, it was on a podcast.
And then we'll come back and we'll we'll talk about it.
Been in the business 24 years, right?
And I've seen people go from nothing to the biggest stars in
the world. I've seen people go from one
role to winning Academy Awards and doing all this shit.
And what I realized yesterday thinking about it, we're lying
to our kids though. And I think that's a big problem
in our community. We tell our kids that they can.
This is fresh on my heart. Like I literally just came to
this conclusion last night. We tell our kids if they do
right and they make the good grades and they go to the
programs and they they will become successful.
If you work hard enough, your work will be paid off.
And that's not true. Success is given, It's not
earned because you can be the most brilliant if one person
don't tap you. Each one of y'all, there were
people who could hit harder, who could catch better, who could
run faster. But somebody said you and the
other fifty behind you fell off. You know what I mean?
And because of that, I don't know what that what that emotion
or that feeling is, is the scary thing.
Because I went to all the programs.
I've done Broadway, I've done Off Broadway, I've been in the
business 24 years. I've been in two Academy Award
films, I've done independent films, I've done major motion
pictures. Now I'm Captain America.
So now what? So that was Anthony Mackie on
the Pivot Podcast and. I feel like his perspective kind
of shook up the scene a little bit because it's an interesting
perspective starting out by saying success is given and not
earned and that we've been lying to our children.
It's kind of it's, it's kind of a.
Heavy of a thing to say, and obviously he's talking about
like the acting scene on the acting industry or the movie
industry. But I feel like that sentimel.
Yeah, it does apply to the music industry as well.
Sam, you, what did you feel about it?
Like what was your like, visceral like reaction to what
he said? To an extent I think I agree,
yes, because I mean art. Can I contextualize it in terms
of art? Art exists within structures.
And so by structures, I mean it exists within structures, the
structures that work to distribute the arts or put it
out and, you know, earn from it. And then the, the consumers.
Oh, there's an easier way to say it's the consumers and the, the
what's, what's the other term? Not creators like the business
side of it. I don't know the consumers.
I'm just saying industry, the industry, right?
And so art exists within those structures.
And so you make a song, you put it out, there's people who are
going to listen to it and there's people who are going to
try to get it to be listened to. And so because of that, you, you
automatically have there is there are things in place and it
lends itself to like powers and lends itself to opinions and
lends itself to just a lot of different things that add to the
music. So it's not just the art itself
that is because it's the art itself that is that you can go
and be successful on your own and just do whatever, right or
success. The definition of success is
different. But then within the structures
now that success is now affected by so many different things.
It's affected by the consumers, it's affected by the people who
are putting it out and what they think about it.
So to that extent I do agree, but I from how he says it almost
seems like he's like, he's making it seem like that's the
end all be all. Like it's the only thing that
determines whether you're successful is if someone taps
you on the shoulder. I don't know how I feel about
that. I don't know.
I feel about that. How do you what what what did
you get from it I guess. Oh IA 100% agree with him.
What was heavy on your mind? IA 100% agree with Anthony
Marquis bro because like. It's just the truth and
especially in the music industry, you would you would
like your talent to be the thing that takes you far, but it's not
the case. I feel like the people who make
it big big are really even almost better, better at
networking than they are at actually creating things.
And I think the sentiment is better.
Networking or being networked? Yeah, exactly.
Or their team is better at networking them or putting them
in in positions, you know what I mean?
I generally feel like that's just the case because.
Hard work pays, of course, but to a certain extent, there's
certain limits, you know, like the industry.
Might you? The industry has gatekeepers.
It's just a fact. And if the gatekeepers for one
reason or another. Do not like you or do not feel
motivated to put you in the position?
Then there's only so far you can go.
Nobody's saying you can't organically get to a point,
because you can. But if you want to break the
threshold, that glass ceiling. Yes, that's exactly what it is.
It there's a glass ceiling in place, right?
And. Breaking that requires exactly
what Anthony Marquis said. Somebody has to say, you, you're
the one who's going to do all these great things.
That's just a fact. But OK, all right, OK, I get it.
And it's unfortunate, and I hate that that's how life is, but
that's just how it is. Do you think for them to be able
to point at you, you need to have been successful?
Do you think success comes before or after that?
What do we? What do we?
No, that's why we have industry plans.
Success means all the like success means.
What do you mean? Like Dochi, I was not going to
say Dochi, although that's what everybody likes to say.
Oh, she's an industry plant or whatever, but it's not true
because Dochi has been out here like really working for time, so
it's actually on record her. Like.
Putting an industry plant, if you've been working, working for
time, just because you, you, you were on the ground running for a
long time doesn't mean that. No, you, you already.
Can come in and swoop you and cut you and put you.
You have just changed. You have changed the meaning of
industry plant, Have I? Yeah.
An industry plant is somebody who comes out of nowhere and
then gets all the perks that an established act should be
getting. No.
Don't. She doesn't come out of nowhere
well. For a lot of people, they feel
like she did industry plants. Usually most of the time, OK,
the people that we term as industry plants are people who
don't have a lot of buzz going for them, but they're still
working like they might have like a couple of joints out and
whatnot. And then like, now what Anthony,
Mr. Mackie is saying is that he taps in the shoulder and he's
like, OK, it's your turn. I mean, the, the industry or
whatever taps you and says your turn.
Then they do everything they can to put you on top.
But and that's that's kind of ties into this because I'm
trying to figure out OK, success.
Are you successful in success numbers?
Because is that the only thing we use as a metric?
I feel like that might affect. Success.
Success is numbers. Success is longevity in your
career. Success is the accolades that
come along with the with what you like, the like the industry
that you're in, whether you're winning Grammys, whether you're
winning Oscars. All those things.
You don't get them based off of hard work in Oh no, but man, you
get. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait
wait. But this is the most, I feel
like you have to have high levels of talent and hard work
to be able to maintain that. So even if someone taps in the
shoulder and says it's, it's your turn, you're not just going
to stick there. If you're trash like you, you
have to have. And that's why I feel like it's
fine if someone picks you and says, OK, like we're, we're
putting you on right? And, and you get your shine, you
get your, your 50 minutes, one hour, whatever, however long it
is, if you're ready for that, then it means nothing.
And what, and what Mackie is almost saying is I feel like
he's just saying that that's the only recipe or that's the major
recipe. And I feel like it it all plays
into each other. So, Sam, in your opinion,
anybody can make it big, right? No, you have to have talent, you
have to be talented. You have to be talented and you
have to be hard working. You have to be ready.
So in your opinion, any talented person can make it right?
Yes, but see, now I'm going to get semantic key because what's
make it That's kind of where I'm stuck.
But then yes, I feel like, I feel like if you have.
Well, why are we getting stuck on that?
Making it is you have a viable career.
You're making enough money. You don't have to be making
billions, but you're making enough money to be comfortable.
People recognize you in your craft and they say, oh look,
that's a really dope artist or musician or actor.
To an accent, yes. To an accent, anybody can get
that done. To an accent, yes, If you.
If you. Now put yourself do you think
just anybody can get to Justin Bieber Bieber or her Bieber?
Justin Bieber or I didn't say that because he's Canadian and.
You know, don't explain it. When would the moment you start
explaining sorry explaining yourself, that's where people
say that you're hating. So just let it you made a do.
You think you can get to Drake level?
Do you think you could get to these heights just being, you
know, just no. Because again, I guess you have
a lot of talent. Because I said art exists within
a system. And so the moment you enter that
system, you're subject to everything else.
You can't just you can't just be singing on the side of your Rd.
I'm sorry. Yeah.
The side of your Rd. the side of the road.
And and like get get billboard number ones and and win Grammys
and you can't accolades. But but shouldn't that how?
But shouldn't that how life like for me, I would say like it
would be best if the best songs musically did the best, You know
what I mean? I want the the the songs that
are just musically so amazing to get the shine, you know, because
that's what it should be about. Like technically the Grammys
should be putting. On music, that's sonically
undeniable. But it's not right.
It's labels making calls the same hit.
Yeah, exactly. This is what we want, and that
is why we want it there. Grammys are cool, but the
system, and this is the problem now, because we're getting
dependent, the system makes those things the the the metrics
of success. I think success is more than
that. Fine, you won a Grammy.
No, no, no, but. Success is more than that.
Yes, one Grammys, sure. It's also after that it's OK.
Yes, it's brilliant. But then you can still be
successful outside of those metrics.
Now what I feel is someone pointing coming to like coming
to you after I'm saying, oh bro, listen, this project you dropped
amazing. I'm putting you on a billboard
in Times Square. You're going to get a whatever a
look you're going to be on Complex magazine, whatever it
is, right? And they've essentially put you
on now. But then they've put you on to
the metrics that they have have built as success.
So an artist, an artist who who is looking after, I mean, who
wants that aspect that that type of success?
They want the Grammys, the one, the numbers, the one the then I
get what he's saying. But then other than that, I
think success is, is not determined.
I mean, it's not determined by other people picking you.
It's more internal. Am I making sense?
I'm making sense in my head. I mean, OK, one that's not one
that I don't know. OK, I get what you're trying to
say. It's like, OK, this if for me,
success is selling my music to 50 people and that makes me feel
super actualized, then I'm successful.
Great. We are all happy.
And rainbows and sunshine. Because you've got what you want
you want. But I'm telling you, but I'm
we're talking about success being success, but like somebody
being on on Saudi souls level of success.
Right. Now, you know, or Bien's level
of music success. I mean, OK, I don't know about
y'all, but like for me, like when I release music, I want to
aim to be one of the best people in my craft, you know, within my
colleagues. You know, and yes, I do
understand what Sam is saying, like we shouldn't use all these
metrics and numbers and this and that to determine success.
But those metrics and numbers and accolades and this, they put
you in the position to be able to generate income and revenue
that keeps you and your family afloat.
In this very turbulent economic system, so it all wraps up
together in that you do and to some extent need these things to
help you on your way to. Success, like honestly, it's,
it's necessary. You need some of these things,
you know to define or just to like.
Give you that comfortability in life, you know, and yes, you
know, you, you can say, oh, I made a wonderful song and I like
it and that's okay. But in real life, you need to
also find a way to live off of your art.
That's the point, you know, and the point Anthony Marquis is
making is that unfortunately, there are barriers to entry and
people like him or people who look like him, I'm saying black
people have limited options in terms of getting that.
But even break that down away from the American industry.
Like even here, you know, like you're trying to get onto radio.
You're, you're trying to get playlisting, you're trying to
get covers on certain publications and stuff like
that, like get on the on the. And it's all about the.
Newspapers and stuff like that. Yeah, it's about who, you know,
do you have, like, I'm telling you, some like some, there could
be two people. X&Y.
Now X is super talented, right? Super talented introvert.
He goes outside sometimes, but he's mostly about.
The music and he makes fantastic music.
Now there's why. Why?
It's talented yes right, not as good as X, but is good at
selling themselves. They can go in rooms and
actually talk to people that music Nah compared to X not the
best, but why actually has that like affability that makes them
want to be or makes other people want to like associate with
them, right? So these two people, you put
them in a room together. This one, the Y goes and shakes
and bakes and talks to this person and that person.
And that person is like, yo, you know what?
I like you. Why I'm going to put you on.
I'm I'm, I'm going to like make sure you're on this playlist or
in this radio rotation or whatever, you know what I mean?
Now, are they necessarily better than?
X right No, they're not this ex person could work as hard as
they can to be the greatest artist in the history of
mankind, but they will not go as far as why?
Because why is able to make the people that make decisions say
you are the one we're going to put on and.
Therefore, hard work, hard working.
Mr. X doesn't get as much shine as very, very socially cognizant
Mr. Y. And that's the point.
Would you? Slightly sorry, go ahead.
No, you ask ask the question. What do you make of artists like
Russ who, who seems to have, he's at the beginning of his
fault, like the, the in terms of someone picking him?
He's not really had the luxury of that.
So he's grinded his way up to whatever and he's been, OK,
let's not do that. He's been fairly successful.
He sells out big, sizable arenas and and he makes quite a bit of
money from his music, right? The same metrics that we are
talking about. Of course, he hasn't gotten like
accolades and awards and Grammys and whatnot.
But then so you talk about Grammys, that's just that's
solely industry. So let me just, yeah.
What do you make of that? Let me just put into context for
people who might know not know who Russ is.
He's an artist in America. And the way he blew up was being
super independent. And at the time, what he did was
he released like music almost every week for like a year or
even more than that on SoundCloud, no support.
He was distributing his music off of TuneCore, which is a
distribution platform that anybody can use.
It's not like industry, whatever.
And he built a. Career for himself, he sells out
venues and he does really well and everyone is like, look at
Russ, he disrupted everything and you know what, it is
possible. My argument is not that it's not
possible. But here's The thing.
Is Russ in the conversation for like the big mainstream?
Artist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, not really close. Russ is never there's.
There's there's levels to this Russ Russ has success and that's
fine, but he doesn't have. Success like other people, you
know what I mean? Like because there's, he's going
to be limited. And even then there's caveats to
that. Like I feel like people like
Russ get into like certain deals that are limited or that are
unexclusive and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Like I'm sure he has things like that going on for him as well.
So it's also a bit of a fallacy sometimes when you hear, and I'm
not saying that about Russ, but sometimes when you hear
somebody's independent, but they are getting distributions
support or publishing support here and there.
So it's like they're not really doing it by themselves.
It's impossible for us to get to like.
And I think like he like getting to like do a leaper
stratospheres or like, you know, you know, you know what I'm
saying, Martin Garrix or like Taylor Swift and all those.
People, I just. There is no I'm telling you Sam,
there is no amount of hard work you are going to do.
You can work 24/7, 366 days because you've gone into time
and made sure every year is a leap year.
Bro you will never and I'm telling you never.
You will never break that like glass ceiling.
And so I think what I'm trying to say is if you're an artist
listening to this and you're like, you know what, I'm just
going to put my head down and I'm going to work so hard and
I'm going to make it to. That's true to an extent.
But I'm also telling you, and I'm using this platform to say
that's not the end all be all. It's not only about working
hard, and sometimes it's even less so about working hard.
It's about who do you know? It's about networking you.
Have you have to figure it out, go on Instagram and stalk
everything that happens on the in the music side.
Like go and kiss 100 and look at everyone they're following and
then look at all the radio producers and stuff like that
and. Like fitness or what was it
going to say? Like manufacture ways to bump
into these people or like find their like those are the people.
Who actually make it, You know what I mean?
Like people who try and put themselves in that position to
be chosen. Yeah.
And in some extent I. Guess you could say that is hard
work in some extent, I don't know.
Because that is a different kind of hard work, yeah.
Yeah, it's not like being hard working at your craft.
And that's just, I don't know, it's just to me, I I think about
it and it's like, you can't change that.
That's just how the world works. I mean, I despise it, you know,
I despise that you have to know specific people and specific
things to get certain perks in the music industry.
It's just a fact. It's just a fact, man.
If you don't know the right people, you're just not going to
get anywhere. So.
You won't get anywhere. If you start, if you start to
get this, this illusion and you're like, damn, when will I
be discovered and stuff like that.
It's not because you're not, you're just, it's not because
it's, it's because you're working hard and that's it, you
know? Yeah, you're, you're, you're
doing, you're doing a lot on on a road that only you're on and
no one sees you, no one passes by that road.
You're just, you're just there by yourself.
But you're doing amazing, amazing work.
You have to get seen and put yourself.
It's all about putting yourself in a position to to succeed.
It is. It's just, and it's just
annoying that like somebody gets somebody up there gets to be
like the the one who says it's you, Sam, that's you, the next
star. Because they're not going to
pick off talent again, That's and that's, that's, I guess
that's that's what. And they're not going to, and
they're not going to be objective or.
Whatever you've put in, they're going to pick off however they
feel or whatever agenda they're trying to push in whatever way
it is. So you then, you then and.
Let me tell you man. Yeah.
It's happened in this industry many times.
We went off to about it on the podcast in different contexts,
but that's just how it works, man.
You know, it's that's so, yeah. Anyway.
But regardless of that, I think as an artist.
So as an artist, I guess the takeaways as a new artist, let
me speak to new artist. As a new artist, the takeaways
are one, of course, is very rare that you're going to be picked
if you have nothing to be picked for.
So the hard work and the, the talent and just working on your
craft and ensuring that you're operating at the highest level,
that's super important. That never goes away.
But there's just much more to being a successful artist than
just yeah than than having amazing songs.
And so you, you, you do have to, unfortunately, you do have to do
some appeasing and connections and be genuine about it, but
then just make more connections than you feel like you need.
Because some of them could be that one person who is feeling a
specific way when they woke up in the morning and has the keys
to the, the room that you need to be in for you to reach that
next level they're open to. I mean, it, it, it could take
just the way you speak to them. And it's like, you know what?
Hey, I like you. All of a sudden now, you know,
we need it for Grammy. That's ridiculous.
And to add to Anthony Markey's point of success being given and
not earned well to the to more examples or to a greater extent
I guess is. Bro there's people in this high
level positions who they're just there because nepotism or.
Yeah, like in the West, you're white.
Big, big, big. Big one, yeah.
Yeah, you're white. And so we mostly like to hire
white male people for this position, right?
It doesn't matter if this black female person is highly
qualified for this position. We're going to hire the white
male person who fits our demographic.
And that's why sometimes success is given and not earned.
There's so many people who hold positions of power who are
simply there because. You know, they didn't even
actually have to go through. Remember how in the X&Y example,
I said Y is good at like networking and stuff like that?
Maybe this person isn't even good at that stuff, but the
people up there want them to be there.
Some people would rather give somebody who is completely inept
at what they're, what field they're in the keys to the
Kingdom just because they have a tie to that person.
So what do we do, Sam? It's ridiculous.
Do we, do we therefore work, try to work our way to the top so
that we can feed our generation well, the generations that fall
that. Proceed us is it?
Proceed. Yeah, proceed us.
You know what I mean? Yeah.
But then that's just that's just feeding into what's already
being done and not really breaking the mould.
But it is possible to be a disruptor like people like Mr.
Beast on YouTube and all that type of, you know, stuff like it
is possible to do that. But I'm telling you it is the
it's, it's the exception. It's not the. 1%, yeah.
So you all need to you all need a prayer.
But if the music. We all do.
We all need a prayer because it's music thing especially.
It's frustrating. It's so subjective.
It's frustrating, yeah. I know so many artists who feel
like they're so much better or they release so much better
music than other people, but they just don't get the
opportunities, man. But you can just sit down and
complain or you can. It is what?
It is, but then it actually is what it is.
Yeah, let's speak about. Let me not harp on on this too
much. So after harping on it for no,
but it's a good conversation. I'm not.
I'm not saying you're happy on it.
Let's get into new music. Wait, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no. Is there anything else?
Is there?
Anything else that there is something I wanted to highlight?
I wanted to highlight Odds. Odds is a music producer mostly
known for his work in drill music.
Also, he's the person who founded Drill Digest and he got
a placement recently with Younger Chief.
He made a song called What If Mngani and it's it's a banger.
It looks like it's doing really well in South Africa.
So yeah, it's it's trending out there.
So shout out to odds putting himself in the position.
I believe there's also some other big news.
Yeah, OK. The next signing, Universal,
it's it's Universal. They look like they're busy.
They've been, they've been busy, busy, busy.
And yeah, the most recent signing is Kim left.
He's an AFA. I would, I would want to say
he's more like an Afrobeat artist.
You should know Kim left by now. If you don't, he's been doing
some good work releasing music. I think he's really cool.
Really, really, really dope, really talented.
But now he's been, you know, Universal is cool.
They're that, let me not say they're cool, but then they're
trying, they're trying something here.
So it's interesting to see how his addition to the roster, you
know, paints more of a picture of what they're trying to do.
I mean, just shout out to to Kim life, shout out to Latim, his
his manager and everyone on his team for securing this.
Yeah, I just not much to say here.
I just hope that it's it pushes him forward upwards.
And what do they usually say in the industry?
Upwards and onwards. So yeah.
Upwards then onwards for Kim life and and Latim as well.
Man, I've had conversations with Latim and these guys have they
have they they have aspirations and it looks like they're
actually out here doing it like for real.
So shout out to them. Shout out to them.
If there's nothing else. I guess we can get into some new
music. Some really.
Easy. Let me start.
Let me start because I feel like you've listened to way more
music than me. So the big one came out, Xavier,
Omar and Xenia. Somebody needs to do some
research. Has there been a drop that has
two people starting with X that they can't be more than 5 can't
be more than 5? Why is that where you went?
Why is that where you went with it?
What? What are the stats here?
It's super. Unique, OK.
Don't you think it's unique? I mean, it is.
Yeah, anyway, they released the song Afraid Part 2, so I I liked
it. Really thought it was a Bob.
So you Xavier Omar is is insane. Yeah, he's cool.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean and Zinnia, Zinnia Zinnia is.
Insane. No, it's it's interesting
because like it's a very it's not like a full circle moment,
but then it's like, I don't know, it's like a an almost full
circle moment where because I've been listening to Xavier Omar
for a long, long time, like since he was he used to go by
spazzy rocket. I don't know whether he wants
that information out. So it's just cool to see him
still working and now him working with some of the artists
that we really not some of the artists, the one of the artists
that we really support here. So that's cool, man.
Shout out to them. It was a good song.
Very very very cool R&B goal list to that for.
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so and also
just to add to that, but I'm not even surprised when Xenia pops
up with like really dope collabs because, you know, she'd be
doing that like consistently. There was, there was.
Let me see. Oh, there's press play by Mbiti
and Gandhi XL. I really like the beats to that
one, man. Mbiti has been releasing music
more consistently, so you all should go support him.
I listened to Action by *** Shawn and Keith Worms. *** Shawn
is like yeah, I feel like he toes the line between like drill
and like urban tonish stuff, but mostly drill.
So shout out to *** Shawn. Jodie Fanetto released an EP
called Usishiquela King. He had a few songs there.
That was dope. He had a song with AJ I believe,
which is also really fire. So shout out to Jody Fanetto.
He's been working. He's been working.
BN released a song with Ramor called.
All I need wait some. Can you roll your Rs?
Yes. Can we hear you try to roll
your? Rs No bro, can you continue?
Actually, I don't believe. You actually don't believe?
You. Oh man, no I'm not going to
roll. Rolled my hours.
Oh, you did it see. Oh, you did it.
You did it. Oh my God, just continue.
This is how is that cheesy? I think that was actually top 10
wholesome moments of the study. You know what if you're out here
listening to the I wish we had clout some because you know what
people be Yeah, seriously, because people be like yeah,
because people people who like, you know, people on YouTube are
like streamers. They'd be like, yo, I want
somebody to just make. Somebody should just put
together. Together, top ten coldest
moments or top top 10 wholesome moments for you know what I
mean? Anyway, one day, one day.
What was I even talking about? Oh yeah, All I need by Ramor.
And yeah, took me back to 2018, man.
Summer 2018, when everything was just hunky Dory.
So it was a really nice sound. Yeah, man, did you have anything
to add about? I didn't watch the video though.
I haven't seen the video as well, but it sounds cool.
Bien, Well, to me, he fits on the track.
Bien is just a good writer. So I think he's he's he's
talented enough to fit himself in whatever space he's been
given. So shout out to him and Ramon.
Ramon, Not Ramon. I don't want to say Ramon
because of the ruling the arts. Ramon.
Yeah. Oh.
Wait, no, I have to shout this out though before I'm done.
This is the last one I'm going to shout out Bala by Kasha.
Yeah, when Kasha releases music man listen, the world stops.
Also I'm trying to see a Kasha times like 21 boy like thing
that's. An interesting It needs to
happen. That's an interesting pairing.
It does. It does need to happen.
Make that happen, Mr. Anr. Make it happen.
Let's see who else dropped. Make it happen, I'll make it
happen. Who else dropped Mombasa's very
own MVO caliber? ETI gave us Love letters 3, Love
letters 3. So it features AJ, Mr. Frank
White and Razor Man. It's Caleb sound man.
He's, he's been, he's been releasing a lot of music.
So shout out to him, shout out to Caleb, who else released some
music that I would like to talk about, DJ Mura, DJ Mura KE, St.
Evo and Labdi. DJ Mura KE and St.
Evo have been to producers who have been like really pushing in
terms of the Afro house sound. So it's good.
And then Labdi is a brilliant vocalist so, and a really good
writer. So they dropped an track, I was
going to say project a track called a Waro.
Oh man, that's vibes, man It's it's I really enjoyed that one.
It was a good, good release. It's interesting because AFAM
AFAM doesn't Afam is not necessarily the Afro house type.
Like listener, like you don't listen to that on your on your
free time. But then when you put me onto an
Afro house tracker, I know that at least it's.
Imagine, imagine, look at, look at the growth.
I think so. So John Apesi released Kiyongi
Kiyongi Kiyongi Who else? A bunch of other releases.
Man Loki the Great dropped Highest and a few others I want
to highlight though the track I want to highlight this week M
Rumbi and Nkata Modoni dropped a song called Another Mess I Made
and I think M Rumbi is planning on dropping an EPA.
I think it is soon an album, some sort of project soon.
So he's began releasing music for that.
I really enjoyed this. I enjoyed, and I told him this,
like I enjoyed this sound and sort of just how it sounded.
It sounds like what it's supposed to be, just very, very
engaging. It engaged my ears.
And yeah, I don't know. You had a chance to.
Did you have a chance to listen to each other?
Very, No, yeah, I, I liked it. It was just a really smooth,
smooth sound. It was a little bit, it was a
little bit on the sad side, but, you know, sometimes you'd be
needing that just to like add fuel to the fire, you know what
I mean? So I, I enjoyed it.
Yeah. There's nothing even more I can
add than it was just a vibe, you know, it's just one of those
things we put on in the background and just like, you
know, just like, yeah. And and dissolve into your bed.
Dissolve into your bed. Yeah, So we're going to
highlight. We're going to play M Ruby and
Katas Katamudoni. Katamudoni's new track.
It's called Another Mess I Make. And she can't see the way.
Not call, call away. She's gonna find a way.
They heard from her in day. I I came away.
I was hoping you were safe. But you don't want to be safe.
Be safe. Be safe.
This waste is just my taste. OK, OK.
Another mess I've made. Another mess I've made.
Can I take? Can I take?
Can I break?
My mistake, My mistake, My mistake, My mistake, My mistake,
My mistake, my mistake. I should lie and die.
And she can't see the way. I can't find the way.
And she lied and she can't see the way I can't find the way.
They are from life in days. In this day she trains my soul.
She makes my heart. She's clear.
But I call. She came.
So it's more than a little bit.
My phone can't seem to learn how to live this the phone.
This day she drains my soul. She saves my heart.
She's clear. But I call.
She came. That was another mess I make by
M Rumbi and Katha Mudhoney. Very smooth smooth smooth
sounds. Shout out to them and everyone
else who's released music. We see you.
Yeah, we do.
You are seen, you are perceived, your presence saying.
We see we see you and you are seen a completely different
things. You are since starts turning it
into therapy. Well.
Just because of the context in which you are seen has been
used, but it's I feel like it's the same thing.
Yeah. But yeah, we're all seen.
We're all seen. You 2 are seen enough.
I'm sure. I forgot.
I forgot to to to to mention your drop.
But then you already did, so yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Speaking of that, you
know guys, I just released the song Top with Zoe can go to
listen if there's anything you take away from this podcast.
No, no, no, no. OK, You know what?
I don't want to say no because. I knew that I knew that was
going to trigger some, but that's why I said it.
If there's anything you. Should take off from Podcast
myself promotion. Yes, exactly 3 two years ago
when we started this podcast, I did it especially solely for
solely for I can't even speak March. 2025 That's why we
started this whole thing. I did it especially for this
moment. But guys, as always, thank you
guys for listening to us for 122 episodes.
I love to outro the podcast with the three C's, which are just
just a mantra that I'm trying to work on for myself.
If you're new here, it's not that I'm perfect, it's just that
I'm also trying to follow these guidelines and these are
confidence. You have to be confident about
your art, right? And I'm really learning that in
real time anyway. You have to be very confident
and be like, yo, I am the shit and I'm the best and y'all are,
you know what I mean? Y'all should listen to my music.
Which you should you should actually.
It's on streaming. Any consistency?
You should be consistent in both the release and the creation of
your work then This doesn't apply if you're just in the
music industry. It applies for everyone.
Consistency is really where it's at to be honest.
I think people who are consistent end up going farther
than even people who are just talented.
So be consistent. And lastly, craft everyday.
Work on your craft. It'll pay off at some point.
Nobody starts off being amazing at something you know.
We all know the feeling of being interested in, I don't know,
painting and then the first thing you paint is horrible.
But if everyday you work at it, trust me, you will be good at it
in the end. So always, always work on your
craft. That's all I have to say, Sam.
That's a fact and I don't have anything else to say, so we'll
end it there. OK.
So we will see you guys on episode 1230123.
We have to do something special for this.
We have to do something special for 123.
Yes, we do. Yes we do.
No, we are going to do something special for 123.
You guys may or may not see something special from afar.
More may, more may than may not. Right, bye.