Also we didn't mention but like shout out to BN for speaking on
our economic situation and that. Just went and blasted the
government. The government's position is the
people. Yeah, that's that's that was
dope. Exactly bro what did he say?
Freedom of expression, but not. Freedom of expression.
Expression. What's up everyone?
Welcome to the 3030% podcast. Podcast de la Fini.
Yeah. Have you, have you seen that?
Have you seen that trend? Have you seen that trend of
people? Have you seen that trend of
people trying to give their like daily routine in Kiswahili?
It's so hilarious, man. No, I haven't seen that.
It's it's actually it's actually peak entertainment and it sounds
exactly like what you. Like, that was horrible, man.
That's what's up, man. It's 30% podcast.
It's us, man. We've been here for 133
episodes. Episode 133.
I'm Sam. That's Afam.
Afam is a producer. I'm also a producer and we talk
about the Kenyan music industry and we are really excited that
you guys are joining us today. I mean, technically we are all
producers. I mean, everyone produces carbon
dioxide, right? So hey listen, it depends on
what context. Of product utter work nonsense.
Listen, we are all. Everyone produces cover,
Everyone is a creative. Honestly, if if you're looking
at that, like even people who are sitting, sitting in desks,
if you're sitting in desks coming up with spreadsheets for
your company, that's a creative because you have to really line
them up. And then everyone is a creative.
It's all, it's all creative work at the end of the day.
So yeah, man, shout out to all the creatives out there, every
single one of you. Period.
Chat to all the workers out there and the teachers, the The
Who else? The police.
Can I shout out the police? That's such a touching.
While we're here, shout out to all the industrial plants out
there, you know, the people making our milk, our bread.
You know, let's just shout out everyone now that we're shouting
out everyone. We're shout out, the politicians
shout out, just shout out everybody.
Shout out to the farmers, Shout out to the farmers.
Shout out to the farmers, the farmers.
No, no, they really do hold us down for real, man.
Underrated, underrated and appreciated.
But yeah, what's up? What's going on?
How's how's? Life.
I'm good, man. I'm chilling.
Just still living life in New York.
Yeah, man, have I been up to anything interesting?
I mean, I don't want to talk about streams for 1/4 podcast in
a row, but I do I I have really been.
You were watching Santi's stream?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was heavy. But I will reserve my thoughts
about I'll, I'll reserve my thoughts about that specific
thing later in the podcast. Guys, that is called subtle
foreshadowing anyway. Such a prove.
Such a prove right here. Bro what a prove not not not
just a pro. I am a consummate professional
at my. Those words with me?
Consummate professional. Alright, sure.
Listen, those those words mean affirm.
They're just a different way of describing my being.
Yo, how are you bro? How?
How is how's how's everything on your end?
Uninteresting, very uninteresting.
But it will change soon. I believe at some point in my
life I'll become like a like a OK, I'll be an outside guy.
I'll be like fun. I'll be a fun person at just
going outside and just linking up with people's.
At some point in my life something has to change and one
day it will. But currently we are coasting
with what we are. I like being inside though and
not doing much. Might need some excitement in my
life, but that's that's not up to me.
That's up to the people around me.
So but yeah, I'm just cool chilling.
I've been working and yeah, what else?
Football season has come to an end.
So even though I started watching football seriously in
like October, September last year, it's come to an end.
And I just feel like there's not like a very on the very legal
stream way where I stream things.
I just feel like this, there's, there's nothing there except F1.
And so just like, oh man. Yeah, F1F1 is F1 is where it's
at now that football is is done. So me, me, I'm OK, me, I'm well
fed. Although damn there, there's not
going to be F1 this coming weekend, which is a bit of a
bummer. I don't know what I'm going to
do with my life over this weekend.
Just no fun weekend, no F4. It might all fall apart bro.
It it might actually, I realized why sports means so much to a
lot of people. But let's not make this a deep
podcast about mental health. So anyway, on that light note,
some let's have a podcast about other people's podcasts.
That's how you blow. Up.
That's how you make it. Is by critique in other podcast
critiques, critiques, critiquing critiques.
That's that's what this is. So.
So Prudence Tanui Kalalala. No, no.
You can, you can. You can laugh after, you can
laugh after you say someone's name that that goes on.
Listen. Big P.
Big P.
Oh, Big P?
Yeah. What did Big P do?
Big P is hilarious. OK, well, Prudence to Nui AKA
King Kalala is part of a podcast that has been generating a
little bit of buzz. It's.
Called fairly new podcast too. No lies.
It's a new podcast. Just showed up actually I think.
Yeah, it's new Ish. Yeah.
And they're taking the streets by storm, you know, by giving us
all the edgy opinions that we probably would never find
anywhere else. So guys, yeah, today we want to
talk about the thing that's just been going around, which was
there's a clip of them discussing and by them we are
referring to King Kalala, to Frankie, just Jim it and
Christine Nampira. Was it Nampira?
And yeah, essentially they were talking about how, well, I guess
Christine was mentioning that Kenyans do not support their
celebrities. And she gave examples of how
when you go to social media, you see the likes of Bien and you
see the likes of Nashinsky have relatively low followings, at
which point King Kalala was was up in arms.
They were both up in arms because they were like, yo,
listen, what does me following artists like really mean in the
grand scheme of things? When I go for their shows, I go,
I pay VVIP for their shows. I do this, that and the 3rd to
support their music. We listen to the music heavily
stuff. So it doesn't matter if I don't
follow this artist, right? Because I'm out here actively
supporting the artist and, and that brought a lot of mixed
reactions online. So Sam, I want to ask you the
question, do you agree with that sentiment?
Do you agree that as long as you're supporting an artist by
listening to their streams or contributing to their streams as
well as buying tickets to their shows, maybe even merchandise
and stuff like that, doesn't really matter if you're not
showing support digitally online, on social media, ETCETC?
I feel like it's, it's, it's a deeper, it's a question that
requires like just more thinking than usual, because then it, it
brings up the question of. That sounds funny.
It brings up the question of what, what's more important for
an artist? Is IT support now or support
later? Support later?
Meaning like for example, that then those are the two sides
where if you're actively just going out and buying merchandise
and paying for shows and you know, streaming and everything,
that's support now where that's money going into the artist's
pockets and they're reaping, they're reaping the benefits of
the work they're doing. Or is IT support later?
Because numbers having numbers, it's almost, it leads to the
first thing, but it's like a secondary thing where it's, it
creates the opportunity for you, for the artists to make money.
I don't know if that makes sense.
So that's just a big question in my mind.
It's like, OK, like do you support the artist now or do
you, do you, do you support later?
Of course, I don't see why you wouldn't do both.
Like like someone's saying I've gone to, I've gone to, I've
gone, let's pick an artist. I've gone to calligraph show.
And because I've gone to Calligraph show, I'm not going
to follow him on Instagram or I'm not, I'm not going to like
his posts or I'm not going to, I'm not going to engage with him
on social media because I was like this showing.
I've already given him that support.
He doesn't need all this like that.
That doesn't make sense. Realistically, people should
just support artists across the board.
Like do as much as you can. If you like this artist, if you,
if you enjoy their music, if, if it's if they resonate with you,
like support them across the board.
Right. But the but the going back to
the question, I don't know. I it in my mind, I feel like
it's more important to have the artists reap the benefits.
I mean to, to, yeah, put the artists in a position where they
reap the benefits of the art. So in that case, it's like
actually doing the things like going for shows and, and, and
buying merchandise and, you know, actually streaming their
music rather than liking their posts on social media and like
and share doesn't really do much in the short term, I think.
OK. I mean, yeah, that's a well
balanced answer, but which is? But I know I have to act as a as
a devil's advocate here. So what's more important to do?
What's more important? It's the shows, it's the shows,
it's the it's the shows, it's the merchandise.
It's the back in the days we used to buy buy actual albums.
It's the buying the albums. It's because that all contribute
right now, everything, the numbers are all funny.
So and the numbers aren't what they are.
It's it's it's everything's a fraction of what it used to be.
So even even the support that you might be giving an artist in
those other ways, you have to do way more for the artist to
benefit from them than you probably had to do like 1020,
thirty years ago when you're buying vinyls and cassette tapes
and floppy disk. Do people used to put music on
floppy disks or was that is that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Heavy.
No, no, that was no. That was the thing.
Yeah.
So, so currently in today's time, it's probably advised to
support the artists directly and where money gets to them
directly through shows, through buying merchandise.
If they're not in a 360 deal, if they're in a 360 deal, then
they're just cooked like this. There's nothing you can do for
that for that. Artist Oh, wait, that's
interesting. Wait, that's actually an
interesting thing You've just met.
Wait, if an if you know an artist is not 360, wait, do you
show solidarity for them by not buying their merchandise?
Because you're like, you screw the label.
I'm not supporting. This label you're putting no,
no, you as you as a supporter have to do twice, three times as
much for that artist to benefit. Like that puts the the supporter
in such a the fan in in such a bad position.
Because now I'm, I'm having to do so much for you to actually
benefit. Or rather like when you're indie
and you, you can make all your money for the year from just one
show or whatever it is or from a song if it if it goes up.
So yeah, it's 360 artists. I just cooked, man.
I'm so sorry. Like I don't know what you want
to say. But it depends, it depends on
scale. It depends on scale because if
your Beyoncé level, signing a 360 deal isn't as bad as an
indie artist. But here's the question.
OK. So well, in terms of what you've
said, I do agree with you largely.
And I think the reason why these guys have come under fire and
they have bro, like a lot of people have been online just
talking about how we are uplifting the wrong sort of
podcasts in this in this space. It's true.
People online aboard bro people
online, they just they, they just want to have their opinion
heard. That's it Like they're just
sitting there and waiting for something to pop off so that
they can type away. It's just ridiculous.
It's it's get a job or go do your job.
Because because even somebody, somebody was like, I really hate
that 80% of podcasts coming out of Kenya is this type of brain
rot content. The other 20% is unfamous people
doing really good topics that are worth listening to, but they
don't get as much traction. Is this our identity?
That is so true. Yo.
Who is that that I that he needs a Pulitzer?
That or she, whoever it is that that's.
A she yeah, that's fine. It was a she.
No, that's true, though. OK, so go so so going back to I
mean, that's our lived experience anyway.
I'm going to. Edit.
No, no, I'm not editing that because I commented on that.
I quote tweeted that it actually got a lot of attraction.
But I was going to say, I think the reason why that clip got a
lot of like response online was one, because of the the way she
was adamantly being loud. And I guess that's Kalala's
personality, but also it's because it does matter how much
how many followers somebody has and how big perception wise we
we see these artists like on the digital spaces because whether
we like it or not, social media is a big facet.
Perception is everything lives today in 2025, it is.
And the reason why perception is very important is not only
because of cloud. A lot of people want many
followers because of cloud, but it's not really only because of
cloud. It's also because that
perception acts or can contribute to leverage, right?
Yeah. And if you're ever able to to to
leverage your numbers, your engaged numbers, that can open
up so many doors for you as an artist, right.
If if you have high engagement on your social media, you know,
brands are going to be willing to like give you a bag to do
things, you're going to get more deals, you're going to be able
to even leverage more if you're assigned on a label and stuff
like that, you know what I mean? So it's not completely useless
to just like follow people and, and, and have like, you know,
because we also have need to have that perception that our
industry is doing big because you see like, you know, people
so BN on Breakfast Club and like, or people who've never
heard of BN because they just, you know, they follow breakfast
club. And if they go on his account
and they see, oh, OK, he only has a few thousand, they'll be
like, OK, it's a relative. And, and that's just how people
are in real life. You know, they see things as
surface level and don't really look too deep into it because as
we know, BN is a huge artist. We know, we know how impactful
he has been. But other people will look at
that and be like, no, exactly. Yeah.
From. The outside, they're looking at
it. You know what I mean?
And they go up to his numbers as he's Spotify.
And they're like, it's this is pretty low for Yeah, for someone
who. And it's but yeah, no, no.
And I agree with you. And it's bad because like even
when you go to Spotify, that's another one, you know, like the
fact that we're only just now getting artists who are breaking
the 1,000,000 stream threshold and stuff like that.
It's really not a good look on our industry.
It makes us feel small. And the problem with us feeling
like a small industry is people won't invest enough into it.
You know what I mean? They'll, they'll low ball us
when it comes to like investment.
And the less money that there is circulating, the worst for it is
for everyone, even you smaller artists, because then you'll
just get less of the pie. That being said, I do agree with
you because there are artists like who have large followings
that are not engaged, you know what I mean?
And and that's essentially very pointless because if you have
3,000,000 followers and only 5000 of those are.
Engaged. It looks so funny.
Exactly. Man, it looks funny when you're
trying to do things on that's it is an epidemic when you're
trying to do things on that scale, but you don't have the
real life numbers to back. So like like Sam said, it is a
mixture of both. You can't discount one or the
other. I think they both work hand in
hand. Especially because especially
because the the industry is moving towards social media now
and essentially social media is what we're talking about in
terms of work following and everything.
So in addition to sex, Spotify and those and YouTube numbers
and all of your views and listens.
Yeah. And of course, it's a weird
thing just because those numbers really don't mean, we don't
really know what those numbers mean as much.
And so you're the fan is, is relegated to a a space of just
blind support without knowing how much an artist is going to
get. And it even makes it worse
because now there's different regions of the world.
And then like if you're selling ACD in the States and you're
selling ACD for what, $10? You translate that across the
board with whatever currency it is, and it might still remain
the same. But now you tell me that a
stream in, I mean, 1,000,000 streams in the US is worth how
many thousands of dollars? And then here it's and then in
Kenya it's worth $300. It's like, OK, like how how, how
as, as as a fan, am I supposed to actually support the artist?
But then yeah, it just it just comes down to do as much as you
can and it's up to the artist as well to do their math and figure
out where they're getting the most value for their time and
their skills and then communicate that to their fans.
Not in a beggy way, because some artists are really corny with
that. Where so cringe.
Well, it's like, yo guys, they support one of the things I
really don't like, even though it's become it's it's very
normal in the streaming world and YouTube is thank you for the
for the Super chat. It's like, oh guys, for you to
comment, you have to super chat and for you to just you have to
super chat and all of that business.
It just feels it's a side point. It just feels weird to me.
Doing that, doing that is kind of cringe, Yeah, but but for a
lot of the big creators, like people super chat off of their
own volition, like they just do it to do it.
But but then I also have, I have very many thoughts about that.
I think it's it's mostly an ego thing because a lot of people
super chat on, on, on creators who don't need that money like
that. You know what I mean?
Like go like, if you're, if you're actually being generous,
you'll go and super chat on a small creator, you know, or give
like a really big donation to a small creator.
But most. People $4.00 you go on, right?
But even, but even like sending Kai like $100, you're doing that
so that Kai can say your name and then you can like that
dopamine rush. It's more about like the ego.
There's a whole I can talk about this for for five hours.
But anyway. But that's cool the.
Thing so, so one thing that I, I do want to say that I don't like
though, is the recent trend. It's not really recent, but the
trend of like artists. Now when we talk about social
media of like artists almost having to become social media
influencers, I think you kind of touched on that.
Like, yeah, it's it's kind of it kind of sucks, man.
Because yeah, you see a lot of artists like complaining that,
OK, I've released a song, but now, you know, my manager is
telling me to make tick. Tocks and all of that.
Yeah. And that that's that's become
that's become the default comment for artists who don't
want to do it. Like it's it's if you scroll
tick tock. So my, my, the label says I need
to make tick tock. So here you go.
Yeah, he. Don't want to do it.
It's not fun and it's not if it's not fun for the artist,
it's not fun for the consumer. Because if I, if I like an
artist and I look at him and he's just, it just looks like
he's been forced to do something, I'm going to be like,
like, I'm not even going to it will, it will take a lot for me
to engage with that current with that art or whatever that piece
of content or creativity, whatever it is.
So it sucks, man. It's, it's the age way.
But yeah, listen, go support your artists, artists for sure.
Figure out where your money is coming from and and use direct
your funds towards that. Don't make it cringy, don't make
it weird. Just direct your fans towards
that. But yeah.
Speaker I think we had talked about this earlier, but then
Speaking of BN and everything, like I had a chance to watch
that interview, the interview he is on with he is on Breakfast
Club with Charlemagne. Then they are knowing thing
about sorry to interrupt, but they are knowing thing about
podcasting is like things happen in real time.
Like when we were recording the last podcast is when the the
thing came out. So now this sounds like old
news, but like bro, like we couldn't talk about it because
we were recording then sorry. It just annoys me.
Yeah, it just annoys you understand, That's the thing.
Breaking breaking news, Breaking news one week later.
But we had talked about it. So yeah, I watched the
interview. I'd actually like to get your
thoughts on this. But then I, I personally felt
like so. So here's the thing.
Coming from an environment that really strives to be something
more like a lot of creatives and, and artists are, are trying
to be part of, I mean, trying to identify with the Western,
Western with Western creativity. Like they, they, that's, they're
taking on that identity for themselves.
I cringe when I see a lot of these artists on big platforms
because a lot of them, a lot of our artists go up there.
Let me not say a lot of I don't want to put that on people.
But then many of our artists go up there and they try to be
something that they're not. Like it's, it's an accent, it's
laughing at jokes, you know, they didn't get.
It's all this strange stuff. But then I just want to applaud
Bien because Bien went up there and he just seemed like he was
himself. He was cool, he was calm, he was
collected, he was eloquent. He did everything the right way.
I found out new things about him.
I didn't even know he was a he was a communications major.
Bro was just doing university to check it off, which is nearly
all of us at this point. But yeah, that he, he was very
composed man. And I and I like that he took
that image up there. Like it doesn't have to be.
People sometimes try to be too cool.
Go up there with 500 chains, never won a chain a day in the
life. Probably rented them and
everything. Bien is out here saying that he
could have carried chickens to the to the show where he could
answer. I don't know.
I just, I appreciate that aspect of it just him being him and
answering questions and not trying to be too, too cool or
trying to give Charlemagne and, and his team an image of Kenyan
and Kenyan art that doesn't exist, which is kind of what a
lot of people do. So shout out to him and that
that was pretty, pretty cool, no?
No, no, you're right. You're right.
He he he really did. He did a good job representing
us. And yeah, he didn't try to be
more than he is, you know? I mean, that's genuinely how BN
is like as a person, which which is cool.
I remember last podcast I was like, he should have gone with
the chicken. But I mean he explained why he
couldn't. That would have been
interesting. You guys in New York, you guys
don't have chickens running around?
That's crazy. Like I can't imagine a world
where there are no chickens running around.
We need chickens running around. I.
Guess so. I've never, I haven't really
seen chickens running around, so I guess that's a thing.
I didn't know it was a thing, so I think so.
My mom, I sent her the the interview to watch and the first
thing she was like, I don't like this guy wearing the red shirt
in reference to Shalamin because she was she everyone trying to
tip him up. Yeah, I that's exactly what I
was telling my mom was like, yo, everyone usually has.
That's his strong opinion, that's his personality.
That's why he's such a big but. You see, that's the thing.
That's the thing that that I found interesting because, you
know, as we know, shut up, bro. We've know Charlamagne has been
somebody I've known in my life for like 13 years because of
just watching his things. But like for my mom who's never
like had any of his content, like she felt like he was like
really trying to trip bien up. Like the mention about asking
him about his sexuality and stuff like that.
Like she was like, no, I don't like this guy.
But he handled it. He handled it really well too.
He just. Yeah, Bien handled that was
cool. No, and and and bro, I feel like
he he showed them that like he, he had like an intelligence with
the way he. Oh yeah.
Dealt. With the answer, the questions
and the way he answered them, like we don't look like scrubs.
We don't look like bro, you know, we're like, it's like, yo,
can you? Imagine if it was low.
Let me not do that. There's a couple of actors who,
if they had gone up for us, oh boy, Kenya would be the would
have gone viral for the wrong reasons.
No beef, and I didn't. It's not me who said these
words, but somebody was in the comments saying how?
Like imagine if it was, if it was the Diamond Platinum there.
I didn't say that. That's who was in my brain.
Alfam did not say that this was a comment that I that was.
In my brain, you know, saying that, no, there's some people
who there's some people who are not trade.
Bien is obviously trained media and I guess his degree helped
with the whole communications thing, but then he's he he went
up there. But there's one thing I really
like that he said and that sort of answers the question that a
lot of people ask where because Charlemagne, I think was
Charlemagne who asked him, why was this Charlemagne envy?
Who asked him like, why, why is why?
Why are we always striving to to make it in the States?
And there's a question that we have because a lot of a lot of
time, we feel like our identity is almost tied to the American
Music economy. And he said that when you win in
the US, you win in the world, which I, you almost know, like
it's at the back of your mind. But then just him putting words
to that makes sense. And from an artist perspective,
like when you, when you win in the US, it's it's a global win
because everyone is looking at them.
So that makes sense. But it's it's, and it's an
unfortunate truth to have to contend with because it's even
when you look at the value of a stream, you know, like if you're
getting streams primarily from the US, you're making more
money, you know what I mean? So it's unfortunate that the
world has kind of like made it so that winning in the US, it is
almost like more valuable even monetarily and stuff like that.
It shouldn't be the case, but it kind of is what it is.
I do like how they were mentioning that, you know, when
it comes to like listening to music, they like, they want to
hear something that they've never had before.
Like and, and it got me thinking about how sometimes we try and
make music that sounds like the West, but that's uninteresting
to them because they make that music already.
They're used to that and they want something.
Different at a high level, yeah, yeah.
And they do. And so that kind of brings me to
to what we prioritize as Kenyan artists.
I think we have a lot of Kenyan artists who are authentic and I
think Kenyan artists we we mix and match like our genres, which
is nice. I think we do need more boldness
in terms of being comfortable being Kenyan on music, in
projects, ETCETC. Just the way they do it in the
Nigerian scene where it's like, it's not not I'm not frowned
upon, but like it's the norm. It's the norm to be hyper proud
of, like, you know what I mean? Like the Nigerian culture and
stuff like that. So I think I think that's
something that I took away from from that.
And it's like, yeah, I think the artist who's really going to
like breakthrough in East from East Africa, from Kenya in the
Western markets, it might not be like a Western leaning artist,
or maybe it'll be one who uses Western like, I don't know,
soundscapes, but like it's completely authentically Kenyan.
I don't know. But like we, we need to like
have more supremely Kenyan sounding artists.
I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
I don't know if you get what I'm trying to say.
I do. I like your point of the being
comfortable. I think it's, it's being
comfortable on both sides because you can be comfortable
in your skin where you're not afraid to show your culture in
your songs and your music. And then there's the other side,
which is not really talked about where some people are not, they
are not proud of their culture so much that they lean too much
into it when it doesn't make sense.
And then that's where you have music musicians, when you know
that they could be doing so much more.
Their music comes out sounding like it should be on ABBC
documentary and it's just Masai beads and Everything Everywhere.
You need to like being comfortable in your being
comfortable with your art. It's it's resisting the need to
conform, but also resisting the need to do too much.
Then the question can arise, I can you do too much in your
music? I think you can.
I think some people just try too much.
Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, to identify with their
culture. So much so that it's it's not
relatable anymore and it just seems like you're trying hard.
So yeah. That's that's that's true,
that's true, but I actually do want to talk about this topic,
but in a different context. So I said I was going to talk
about streaming and like I said, I watched yet again.
I spent the week watching Santi I.
Just wake up in the morning and throw on Santi.
That's the exaggeration. Like I did that one day I woke
up and I was like, I've got to see this stream.
And it was a stream of Santi putting on like some underground
artists in his, in one of his streams.
Essentially, the idea was he had like he had like 10 of them come
through to his house and then he introduced them to his audience.
They're like, oh, and for those of you who don't know, Santi
goes by cruel Santino. He's a.
Legend in the part of. The Alti, yeah, he's a big part
of the Alti wave. Yeah, the Alti wave in Nigeria,
the biggest song that people kind of recognize him by, is
called Rapid Fire, if you're interested in looking for that.
But anyway, so he was just out there like introducing them to
his audience. And then at the end, all of them
made music in the house and they were separated into two teams.
The producers were there. And then they made like music.
And that's cool. And I was just looking at all
these kids and I'm like, wow. They're super like young,
talented, but not so dissimilar from the people who have
interacted with back home because even then they are very
also inspired by Western culture and stuff like that.
But they they, they found a way to like really properly fuse it
with the Nigerian culture. Anyway, I say all this to say, I
don't know why there's not like an equivalent support for like
our underground slash alti artists who are doing similar
things because, you know, I would so he would introduce like
an artist lua dot MP4 or Z level 10, for example.
And I'm like, oh, I don't know who these kids are.
But then I go to the the Instagram, I go to the, the,
the, the spotifies and they have numbers.
Like they have, they have like, yeah, yeah, they have like, you
know, 40,000 monthly listeners, for example, or something like
that, which isn't big, but like in the underground scene that's
viable, you know, I mean, so, so I was just looking at all that
stuff and I was like, damn, why is it so dissimilar here?
And then I see Jovi releasing music and Jovi released the song
247 recently and it's not too dissimilar to what these kids
are doing. Yet I feel like Jovi doesn't get
as much support. He gets a lot of support.
Don't get me wrong, Jovi gets a lot of support, but he doesn't
get as much support. Like for breaking the mold,
hopping on like opium type beats and stuff like that.
But he's still rapping in in sheng.
I mean, it's sharp at the end of the day, right?
He but he doesn't get as much support, you know, like Kina,
Swahili, Papi and akumbo like shout out to them.
They've been out here for a minute, but like you know, their
movement hasn't like it hasn't blown up the way like it could
have. For example, you know what?
I mean, it had a period where it was catching, catching a little
bit of fire and then very. Promising, yeah, can Albizi, for
example, and stuff like that. But like, I feel like we can
rally around some of these people a little bit more.
And I want to ask you why you think, like, where's like the
disconnect between like, like Jovi being elevated to being
more mainstream because Jovi has been around for a while.
And then there's another mini conversation to be had about the
state of Sharp and, you know, why it hasn't, like, panned out
the way it should have. But yeah, yeah.
So maybe answer the first one first.
It's also frustrating because someone like Jovi, who is, I
mean, he's been the past couple of songs that we've had him on,
he's like been rapping, rapping, rapping.
And, and there's good raps coming out of that side of
things, especially now that the other rappers like the block,
the blockbuster rappers that we're supposed to be having,
they aren't really doing much. Honestly, it's not much coming
out of that camp. I don't know it, let me say I'm,
I'm not exactly sure where I, I can pinpoint the, the, where the
disconnect is. I do feel like it's a cultural
thing because I don't know if the mainstream accepts, accepts
the music, accepts rap in the way they are presenting it.
It's completely different. It's very new school.
It's that's a bar. That's a bar.
It's very say that again. Say that you don't know if you
don't know. I don't know.
I don't know if the masses
accept rap in the way that the newer kids are presenting it.
Yeah, because it's it's a completely different culture.
The rap that we that we all that we all supported and and like
played and everything that was the kleptomaniac because it was
Kalama Shaka than them. It was giddy, giddy Maji Maji.
It was the the theirs felt a lot closer to I'm talking about now
my generation, because I realized that sometimes we have
conversations and then we leave out the fact that like we're
talking from a specific age range.
Like for me, that kind of rap, it just felt like it had more to
it. Something Bien was saying on and
actually mentioned it on on on the interview where he said that
back then when $0.50 was popping, like $0.50 was popping
in the US and people in his village were singing were were
were rapping along. Too many men.
This days. The people at the top of
Kendrick is not going to no one is playing.
No one is playing Kendrick in the in the villages right now.
And. It might be a thing of the time
and how people communicate their struggles through time.
Sometimes it could be just the culture in the way that maybe
the struggles people are communicating resonate a lot
more with the people, resonate a lot more with the listeners than
maybe in a separate time. These days.
It's more internetty. I don't have that.
That's the one where I can put it.
It's just more. There's more of a modern twist
to wrap and it's quick and it's sometimes the concepts are half
baked, but that's how that's what makes it cool.
It's like it's it's just it's more based on aura and swag than
wraps. And so maybe maybe just the way
they're they're presenting it, it it's not connecting.
Yeah, but I see. But I see.
No, no, yeah. It just is just so you can go.
It's it at some point we have to move away from what was old and
then and then figure out what's new.
So it's now up to up to the field to figure out how to make
the new rappers, the drillers, the boom bop guys, the
underground guys, the shrappers, all of how to make the new
rappers resonate with more of the masses than just their
little cliques, which is I think a big problem that we're having.
That's why it's not crossing over.
Well said. Well said.
I I agree with you. I agree with you for the most
part because, yeah, I mean, because Ken A Jovi and we've
just had a conversation about being authentically Kenyan.
But I think the reason why I'm really excited by things like,
you know, Sharp is because it's mixing cultures and then
offering something new because of that, like combination of
cultures, you know what I mean? As opposed to just like trying
to rap in English over a bomba beat as a Kenyan, you know what
I mean? Then it just becomes like you're
really just mimicking. But like if you're doing Shrap
over a heat type beat, like you're offering something kind
of like unique or even farther, if you put Afro drums on that
heat type beat and then wrap in in, in sheng and stuff, that
just like makes something completely unique, which is what
the kids are doing like in Nigeria anyway.
I don't know, Maybe it's just like maybe our, our, our
industry is a little bit slow to react to newer like things.
Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it's the beats as well,
like if you throw on, if you throw on vocal beat and listen
to it without vocals, like that's a joint.
I think it's difficult for people to throw on like a heat
type beat these days and like be vibing to it.
It's just OK. But for me that's that's a like
even the, the the Jovi stuff, that shit is hard, man.
But I don't know, Maybe it's because I don't know.
It's an interesting conversation to have, but I think Jovi will
have will definitely receive his flowers very soon if he keeps
like he's on a run, if he keeps going.
And I think he's carrying the shrub scene right now, man, not
gonna lie. And.
Just on a side point, on a side point question, do you think he
should just keep doing it or do you think he should?
You know, like when an artist it starts popping off and they're
they're making good art, good songs, and they now have to kick
into a gear of OK, I am an artist and I need to move like
an artist. Almost like what like like what
BN is doing. Do you think Jovi needs to do
that or do you think he stays in his his lane and it just comes
to him naturally? No, he needs to keep on doing
this. He needs to keep on doing this
strategy because his strategy now, like ever since he dropped
Boy was drop an extremely hard snippet and then drop the song
like after like a few weeks, he needs to keep on.
He needs to rinse that like pathway.
He needs to do it like another two times and then put together
like a project. I think he needs to really put
his foot on the gas and then also make sure that the visuals
are still very, very compelling. What about the business?
Yeah, he's going to have. Side of it like what does he do?
What do you mean what? Do you mean what does he do to
escape? Escape just remaining creating
really dope tracks that just stay at a certain level and
don't break bound. That's a difficult question.
Like I said, I think he needs to, he needs to keep at it and
hope one of these things really like pops off.
Ultimately, that's all he can do because then with that like buzz
around his name, then maybe he can start leveraging that for
more things and then having more money to invest into doing like
shows. Maybe he could he could with
this buzz and with this like momentum through his own show,
you know, maybe put on some other small artists, like as an
under as the under acts or whatever, you know what I mean?
Like he but but I think ultimately he just needs to keep
on like turning the screw and releasing this music in the same
way with amazing visuals. So just investing more like in
the he just needs to invest. Keep investing the way he has
been on the videos to make them as compelling as possible.
And then see if you can like now get maximize on the YouTube
front. Yeah, just make sure like the
the numbers are looking good on YouTube and shit like that.
See if he can get partnerships on streaming so that they can
help push his numbers and push his work a little bit more.
And then from there, I think we'll start to see something.
But right now I'd say he's carrying the sharp scene.
Boutros I wouldn't say has fallen off, but like Buttress
became a little bit more mainstream.
And I think for Buttress, what happened was he just he landed
on a hit and from there it just. Yeah, man, you.
Know what I mean? It sucks.
It sounds ruined careers bro like it's crazy.
Let me say no. Ruin.
I wouldn't say ruin. Let me say Ruin because that
sounds bad. Hit song.
Hit songs. They have a way of of taking you
away from what everyone knows you to be and just focusing you
on one thing. I guess that's what I mean.
I don't necessarily mean, but then it's like people who are
really rocking with him as a sharper it's.
Because Angela was not sharp, you know what I mean?
And, and so, and I'm sure in his head, in his head he had to
like, despite the, the, he's like, OK, me, I'm, I'm buttress
because of shrap and all that stuff.
But what really put me on was this.
So what do I do? You're in a crossroads.
Like do I keep on doing shrap? Do I keep on doing the stuff
that really put me on? Then it becomes like confusing.
Also his mainstream. So what happens?
Everybody wants collaborations in in some sense, you also kind
of dilute yourself because now you're stretching yourself where
you're doing collabs for so many different people.
And like your presence is like, like Jovi only pops out when
he's releasing music. He has like a few songs here and
there with other people, but for the most part, like he's not so
over saturated. So we're always excited to
listen to Jovi as opposed to Boutros because Boutros is such
a huge name now. So it's not dichotomy.
I don't know, it's kind of weird, but yeah, we'll see.
We'll see how the sharp scene goes because like, as a
movement, it's really slowed down.
But Jovi's carrying, so yeah, I don't know.
Anyway, Oh my God, we have yapped.
Do you want? What else was there to talk
about? Well, I just want to, I just
want to give a shout out to Nairobi R&B.
Yeah, they're bringing such a keyboard to the country, man.
And this is off the back of bringing Jules last month.
So bro. Those those of you.
As well, man yeah, yeah, that was Nairobi R&B as well, man.
So I just want to give a big shout out to fame and and the
team, the whole team over there for like giving people dope
experiences. So a lot of people might not
know Sasha Kibo because she's really bubbling up right now,
but big in the UK, like R&B scenes has a lot of music with
K1 has a song that's doing really well with black, has
another song doing really well with Destin Kondrad, which is
super fire. One of those names was going to
be like really noticeable or notable sorry in the future.
So to get her like, in this period of her career when she's
like skyrocketing, that's insane.
And Sam and I were debating over, OK, now she's going to be
in the country. I know you have to do a club
yourself, hop into the. Studio.
Right I. Mean, we saw Jules, we saw,
yeah, but we saw Jules in the Stew with Benzema and Watenda
wheelie, right? So I'm trying to see such a.
Keyboard. I tried to see such a keyboard.
Zinnia with some shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The question was, OK, does does she tap into that lane where
it's like comfortable for her? You know, it's the R&B.
It's it's that sound that's that's pretty similar, you know,
or does she go completely left and gets a song with, I don't
know, get a song with and and you wire Tajiri or something.
That's not something that's not down that R&B lane.
Something that's a bit unpredictable.
And yeah, the question is how much freedom does she even have
to do that? Like you know the label have
expectations, you know? And the most is true, she just
have expectations for herself and just the lane she wants to
go in. That's true.
I don't know. I feel like the most the, the
name that makes the most sense is Zinnia.
Or if she was working with producers, if like she was
tapping in with like ukulele or something like that, or I don't
know. So, so yeah, either way, man,
bro, we can't let her come to the country and all she does is
perform and nothing else happens, bro.
That's a wasted opportunity in my opinion, man.
Sasha Kibo has to come in the country and then we get
something more than just the performance, like, you know what
I mean? Because that's how that's how
like through collaboration is how just like things grow, you
know what I mean? Yeah, this is this is a side
point, but I'm just thinking about it and I feel like we do
need more studios because every time this artists come, the only
studio we see there is a snowball.
Like we need more studios and more spaces for these artists to
be able to create. And it's just, it's been snow.
And that's not bad because they're obviously, you know,
they've done well enough for them to, to, to deserve to bring
this artist in. But then, yeah, I think I think
it will benefit us to have more big, big, well equipped.
I'm just studios where the vibe is there.
So that so that a lot of these artists can there's just more
options because then more options mean like, I'm thinking
about the situation where 34 big artists come into the country
and they're here for a limited time and the only place they can
go is is like a snowball, you know?
And that might limit the amount of art that we get from them.
But yeah, man, I don't know if she collapsed with.
We'll wait and see. I stand that show honestly
because like you, I thought I did not not like you, but like
many people, I thought I did not know who she was until I went to
Spotify and I saw that I'm already liking a bunch of her
songs so. Of her music, yeah.
Yeah, so. Right, that should be this
month, but yes, speaking and bro, if me I was home, I I would
definitely. I know you're going to be there.
Frontline. Yeah, you're going to be there.
The first one they're saying crooning, Crooning.
I'll. Be singing the same wire like
might I might depending on the context.
We have any music to cry to, whatever will be up there
crying. Oh, no, no, no, no.
She does. She does.
What are you talking about? Some.
What are you talking? You definitely be up there
crying. Listen to her, listen to her.
All the stuff when she did, she did more acoustic things, like
over just piano. Oh my God, bro, yeah, she bro.
She has, she has a bag. But yeah, man, new music, man.
What did you listen to this? New music this week, new music
Nameless Nameless is he collaborate with Eli AJ, which
is cool. Out again?
Yeah, man is working, bro. Like he's he's really pushing
and I like that he's doing a bunch of different things like
collaborating with different sides of the industry.
So that's cool. Speaking of the oldies, King
Kaka, he's still dropping music, I think.
I think he's gearing up for a project with Scar.
It looks like that. I don't know if it's been
announced. I'm not really been following
that, but they've dropped two singles this week.
They they dropped find me with so it's Kinkaka scan Cardinali
and Jirai, which is an interesting pairing.
That wasn't bad. Actually enjoyed that a little
bit. What else?
Octopus dropped June 25th and again, this is it's it's it's, I
mean, it's, it's a man, a man, a song, right?
Just really chronicling it and very, very emotional chords,
throwing news clips in there as it was.
It was decent. I mean, it's if if you're
looking to relieve that and you really like Octopus like that,
that would be a that would be a decent song.
Do you have do you have thoughts?
I'm going to put you on the spot.
No, no, no, yeah. Now that you're giving me faces,
you've put me on this photo, but.
No, Oh my Oh my God that is giving you faces bro.
No no no, I actually do respect artists who put like the
message. Also we didn't mention but like
shout out to Bien for speaking on our economic situation and
that. Just went and blasted the
government. The government is the people.
Yeah, that's that's that was dope.
Exactly bro, what did he say? Freedom of expression.
But not freedom after. Expression.
Expression came up with that. Shout out to.
Him. I know I came up with that, but.
Yeah, I don't know, but shout out to Mr. Alusa Continua.
Goodness, yeah. And it was confirmed to Oh my
goodness, I'm so. So anyway, we'll wait for the
songs, luckily. What else did I listen to?
There's one other song I want to
shout out, Boy Black. Boy Black and Zawadi released a
song. It was very interesting.
I'm of course a big fan of Boy Black and his raps.
Zawadi also wrapped her up was really interesting though.
It was was not it was unexpected.
Let me say that. It was very unexpected.
So. And that was pretty cool Shout
yeah. Listen jumped a project
recently, Sun Wave Records. I don't know if that's the name.
I think that might be the name. I'm going off off the top of my
head. So shout out to him and lastly,
shout out to Mawira, who is back with Vumbi.
Yeah, hopefully he keeps releasing music and we see more
from him. Yeah, I think.
Oh, wait. And lastly, lastly, sorry,
lastly, let me be Roland, Krista and Savara, which is
interesting, but I did not think about that pairing but appearing
with three of them on the track. But that was interesting.
I think somewhere I did well. It's a very relaxed, chill song.
And yeah, I enjoyed that one as well.
That's about all I'm. Surprised you didn't mention The
World by Ochiko. I thought that would be along
your why? Why did you think that?
Yeah. See.
And that's that's where you made it because.
You like that folk? No, it's because you like that.
You. Always, No.
You're saying that because there's two of us on this on on
this platform and one of us does not listen to that kind of music
at all. So now you're automatically
going to make the other person. OK, OK, you know what?
You know what? Take it back.
I'm backing off, but shout out to Orchico for releasing the
song The World. Another favorite artist of yours
Caliber, Witty, released the song Poor It.
On to yo, Mombasa is very old and let's go bro.
Yeah, shout out to Caliber Witty.
I want to say shout out to Iana. She released a song with Kobe
Banks called Finally Done with School.
Love that like hip hop like chill vibe.
There was a song by Mauricio Brilliante and Nesburu, they
released a song called Protelele.
So bro, this guy's released the UNS jams like every week like
it's nothing. There's this artist I didn't
know too much about called Binoy.
He released a song called Beat. He's a Kenyan, Kenyan born
artist but lives in Lai Believe so you know.
Yeah, he's somebody new. I've never heard of him before.
But like, shout out to him for releasing some music.
My Molo dropped the song Guidance produced by Cap.
Yeah, man, Cap never disappoints with his production and I don't
think I listen to anything else except for the song that we want
to put on today for the end of the podcast, which is 247 by
Jovi Jove and Sahili Papi. Listen when we look, when we
talk about a song that makes you want to just like wear black Air
Force ones, go outside and just. Engage why their shoes wear
black? Because of the people who it's
because of the people who wear them.
Like bro, the people who wear them are usually about that
life. Let.
Me tell you, when I listen to Jovi man, yeah, when I listen to
Jovi man, I just feel like bro, I need to be.
And if you know me, you know I'm the least person to be this way.
But like bro, you just feel like you know?
You're not doing any of that activity.
No, no, no, no. You're listening to it in your
headphones. Yeah, good.
Stay out of. Stay out of.
I'm feeling like I'm in, I'm feeling like I'm in the street.
But anyway, shout out to Jovi. You should have said the way you
said that. That didn't come up hard.
It's OK. It's not the life you built, you
built for. And thank we.
Thank we thank God for that. Yeah.
Let me be honest. I am not built for that life.
But anyway, yeah. So the song I want to play for
the end of the podcast is 247 by Jovi Jov and Swahili.
Happy 247. Yeah.
Bandi hawa Julikani party Jovi kamlesh patni magoroza kombak
Niko trap harakati maze Jovi Nikki Guangi hini Capitalism,
Organism, Symbolism heretic. That was 247 by Jovi Jove and
Swahili Papi. Shout out to them.
That was like an insanely tough listen.
So hard so fire. I can't wait for more music from
Jovi Jove, man. This is your year, man.
Make sure you keep on. You stay releasing.
Yo Sam, that's another podcast down the can.
If you're new listening to this podcast, I'd like to end it with
the three C's. And what are those you may ask?
Well, this is a mantra that I've kind of devised for myself that
I thought I would share on the podcast.
And what are these 3C's confidence.
You need to be confident in your art, in your work.
Make sure that that confidence is exuding in your work.
Believe in yourself a little bit because when you do, other
people will believe in you as well.
Consistency Make sure that you are creating your art
consistently as well as releasing consistently.
I mean, we can see Jovi Jov is doing that right now.
Releasing consistently is actually giving him a buzz and,
and, and it's so dope to see. So make sure you're consistent
with how you're creating. And lastly, craft, always work
on your craft. Read something that helps you
progress your art. Only 5 minutes, 10 minutes a day
is enough for you to start really, really improving.
So I know we all have 5 to 10 minutes in our day to dedicated
to our craft, so make sure you're doing that.
And yeah man, Episode 133, Sam. Yep.
Yeah. Thank you guys.
We stay safe. Stay, stay clean out there.
The air is getting dirtier. The politicians are not here to
help you. No one will save you.
Just leave your life. And on those.
Words, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
We will catch you on episode 134.