1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,800 You found us. I'm glad you did, but I'm so 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,240 sorry you had to. The good news is we got you. 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,400 So come sit in our widow circle where trauma meets humor and we 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,440 remind you that you can not only survive, but thrive. 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,240 This is every widow thing. Hi, welcome back. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,880 I'm Laci with every widow thing. And I'm here today with Whitney 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,120 and Kira. And we have a special guest, 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,320 Katie Cummings with us today. Welcome, Katie. 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,000 Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. 10 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,720 We are thrilled to have you. I'm going to tell you a little 11 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,480 bit about Katie. She is a renowned trauma 12 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:39,680 therapist with advanced training and eye Movement Desensitization 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,160 and Reprocessing, or EMDR, a powerful approach to healing 14 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,640 trauma. Integrating EMDR with internal 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,160 family systems, somatic experiencing, and neuroscience, 16 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:53,800 Katie guides individuals and couples through profound 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,920 transformations. With her compassionate approach 18 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,080 and deep understanding of the brain's response to trauma. 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,640 She shares insights on resilience, healing, and 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,240 fostering deep connections to self and others. 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,160 So we hope you're going to join us today and explore her unique 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,360 therapeutic approach and the incredible impact of EMDR on 23 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,560 emotional recovery and relational growth. 24 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,520 I'm so excited to talk about this subject. 25 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,080 We've been talking about it on the show for quite some time. 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:27,680 We have even put it on our IG but I have done it I think. 27 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,720 I've never done it. I didn't even know anything 28 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,840 about it until I started hooking up with you guys. 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,560 OK. All right. 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,480 I did something similar was recommended to me called ETT 31 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,520 with Doctor Vasquez here in Austin and that was super 32 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,960 helpful with the traumatic experience that I went through. 33 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:47,000 So yeah. Yeah. 34 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,880 Well, what we could do is maybe First off tell everybody because 35 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,880 we've had a lot of questions and we can't respond because we 36 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,520 don't even. Really understand. 37 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,640 It I've done it and it worked for me, but I don't know what it 38 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,200 is. It works, but we don't know why 39 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,920 exactly, right? So tell us what it is, how it 40 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,320 works, and then we'll go from there. 41 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:10,120 It's so it can appear so mysterious, so and and it's it 42 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,640 is a complicated process. It's an 8 phase protocol and so 43 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:18,960 a lot of people think that EMDR is happening only when eye 44 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,080 movements happen or only during the desensitization process. 45 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,440 But really even the first meeting is EMDR. 46 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,840 It's history taking. It's getting to know the person 47 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,600 to feel if it's a good fit and, and asking questions and 48 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,200 assessing if someone is a good fit for EMDR. 49 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:41,080 So it EMDR stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and 50 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,880 Reprocessing, and it was invented by Francine Shapiro. 51 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,280 And the way that I was taught that she learned it, There are a 52 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,960 couple different versions out there. 53 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,600 And is that she experienced something really activating in 54 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,520 her life. She had a loss in her life and 55 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:04,080 she went for a walk and she sat up down on a bench and she 56 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,560 watched people playing tennis. And as she was feeling the loss 57 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,480 and all the feelings that came up with it, she would watch the 58 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,360 ball go back and forth and she noticed that there was a 59 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,800 decrease in her activation. And what does that mean? 60 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,920 Deactivation as in a. Trigger yeah, perfect. 61 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:24,600 And that's a great other word for it. 62 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,600 So you know, like when you feel it in your body, like something 63 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,840 is surging up and it and it could be through any of the 64 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,080 senses, it could be through smell, it could be through a 65 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,760 memory that pops up. It could be from a flashback. 66 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,920 And. And so, so she's, she sits 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:46,000 there, she's watching the ball go back and forth and she's 68 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,240 like, she's a clinician at the time. 69 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,160 And she's like, I want to try this and see what, see what 70 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,040 happens. So she starts to do some of the 71 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,640 eye movement with some of her clients and it starts to 72 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,480 integrate. And so this was in the 80s. 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,640 And so, so it is so she experiments. 74 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,200 And I mean, now we're here at Emdr's level a researched, it's, 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,400 it's a it's massively effective method. 76 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,240 It's not the only method for trauma, but it is one that feels 77 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:17,240 like it's the surgical version. Well, what's the science behind 78 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,680 it? Because I understand it kind of 79 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,600 a distraction like watching the tennis ball. 80 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,160 I my non science brain would be like, Oh well, you're 81 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:33,200 distracting your mind from those thoughts, but there's more 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,280 science. Oh yeah, behind it like 83 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:39,520 neuropaths and. It is so that that aspect of why 84 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,960 that worked was what we called dual attention. 85 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,000 So she was able to hold that surge or that trigger or that 86 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:52,720 activation while also doing what we call a bilateral stimulation, 87 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,480 which is we move our eyes back and forth during REM sleep when 88 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,120 we're integrating memory. So it's like she landed on this, 89 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,080 this mechanism that we have in our body where we are designed 90 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:11,560 to heal and then paired it with what she was feeling. 91 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,280 And so, so there's the dual attention aspect. 92 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:18,280 But to bring more of the science in that dual attention in the 93 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:22,120 bilateral stimulation is only about 10% on why EMDR is 94 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,360 effective. The reason why EMDR is effective 95 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,160 and things like ETT or somatic experiencing is that it's 96 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,880 something we call the adaptive information processing model. 97 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,040 And please tell me if I'm getting too technical, people 98 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,760 will start to glaze over. But this is this is specifically 99 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:45,520 why it's effective is that we can isolate memory networks that 100 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,280 are holding that charge or that trigger. 101 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,200 The energy behind it you. Got it. 102 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:56,440 So for example, I, I was in a car accident when I was 16 and I 103 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,360 was at a stoplight and someone hit me going 60 and I was a 104 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,360 sitting duck. And I was, I was a new driver 105 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:09,480 and, and I, I carried that charge with me for a long time 106 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,920 until I discovered EMDR. And so I would white knuckle the 107 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,760 steering wheel when I was driving and, and feel like 108 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,360 someone was going to hit me at any moment. 109 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,800 And my belief at the time was that I'm not safe and I can be 110 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,080 harmed at any moment. And by identifying that belief, 111 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,800 which is what we do with EMDR, we find what someone's belief is 112 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,560 connected to the trauma. And so that can be related to 113 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,360 grief and loss, that can be related to any shocking event or 114 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:44,560 any attachment trauma. And so we, I, once I was able to 115 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,440 identify that and the my AMDR therapist was able to help me 116 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:54,360 desensitize that event and that trigger within which we call a 117 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,080 maladaptive memory network. And that's what holds the 118 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,960 trauma. And once it's cleared and 119 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,720 healed, it then goes to adaptive information processing, meaning 120 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,200 that it connects with all of our other knowing, which is like, 121 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,920 the world is also a good place. People love each other. 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,320 I'm safe. I'm not being harmed right now 123 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,320 and so when that happens, we don't erase the memory, but it 124 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,920 it shifts our beliefs about what happened. 125 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,480 That is incredible. It really, that's the best 126 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,680 explanation I've ever heard about how it works is a lot of 127 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,680 times the clinicians or the people who are the therapist 128 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,000 don't really understand the science behind it. 129 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,920 Sticks out in our memory because it was awful. 130 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:37,800 It was. Traumatic. 131 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:43,360 And so our our very intelligent system is like, pay attention to 132 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,800 anything that feels like that. Yeah. 133 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,960 And so the trauma trying. To protect you. 134 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Yes. And Spiderfly had that, yeah. 135 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,200 And that's probably Kira why you needed the ETT EE. 136 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:59,520 T yeah, I ended up with someone recommended who worked with 137 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,320 people specifically who were in car accidents like I was. 138 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,440 And so he explained it to me. This was a few years ago, but 139 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:12,760 that when I thought about the event, the car accident or 140 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,680 talked about it with people. So one of the things when your 141 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,280 spouse dies is everyone wants to know what happened. 142 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,920 And I found myself having to explain to a lot of people what 143 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,000 had happened to us. And so every time I would 144 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,600 explain it, I would sort of have that physical post traumatic 145 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,280 sort of, you know, experience of like experiencing like what went 146 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,280 on in the accident and in the car. 147 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,559 Living it. Every time trapped in the car 148 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,760 and, you know, my child was crying and I couldn't see my 149 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,520 husband. And so, yeah, I was having like, 150 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,160 that physical reaction every time. 151 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,680 And he explained to me that he was going to be able to separate 152 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:57,680 that out somehow where I would be able to think about it and 153 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:00,640 talk about it and not relive it every time. 154 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Yes, if that makes sense. Yes, that's part of that 155 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,360 desensitization and, and there are two aspects to grief. 156 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,120 And when I work with people who have gone through something like 157 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,400 this where we split up the grief from the trauma. 158 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,960 So, and I know there's a lot of overlap, but we can work on the 159 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,560 shock of what happened and desensitize that grief is its 160 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:33,360 own unique organic process. And EMDR can't always heal that. 161 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,280 People that love you and having presents with people that love 162 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,960 you or whatever you need, whatever that looks like, 163 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,680 there's no judgement. It is, it is everyone's own 164 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,720 process. And so splitting, splitting up 165 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,680 what EMDR can do for grief is really important in setting up 166 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,160 expectations about the healing that can be done. 167 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,600 Well, that is the next question of like who is a good candidate 168 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,640 because it sounds like you don't just do it for oh, I lost my 169 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,200 husband. I'm going to do EMDR. 170 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,840 It's more there was something traumatic. 171 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,120 I mean, it's traumatic, but you know what I'm saying? 172 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,880 There's an event or something? Well, I have a question to 173 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,480 piggyback on that as well. While you were talking, and I 174 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,800 remember this, me specifically, I don't like to fly. 175 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,960 Well, what happened to my husband had absolutely nothing 176 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,040 to do with flying 0. Now I didn't know someone who 177 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,120 died in a plane crash. So and I do think about her 178 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,560 every time I fly over the pond. But that's not that's not it, 179 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:33,720 though. I know it isn't because I've 180 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,080 flown plenty of times After that. 181 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,880 After my husband died, flying became the thing. 182 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,800 And so I was like, what is the problem? 183 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,360 It's it becomes and and that's something like I'm sure with her 184 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,720 driving, but mine had nothing to do. 185 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,640 Hers make sense to me. Mine does not. 186 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,600 Why did it like my son always just like what's the deal with 187 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,720 flying? I was like, I don't know, but 188 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,360 that's where it went. So coupled with who is a good 189 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:03,440 candidate and would you turn that person away that had grief 190 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,360 associated with that kind of trauma that had nothing to do 191 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,800 with how they died or are they a good candidate? 192 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,120 I don't know. It's such a great question on 193 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,720 who is a good candidate because I go back to that there, there 194 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,040 are two. So I not only especially as in 195 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,520 in EMDR, I have advanced training, training and trauma 196 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,560 healing. So the there are two different 197 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,240 types of trauma that we look like look at in general. 198 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,640 And I kind of want to try and experiment with you in a little 199 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,160 bit. If you're up for it based on 200 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:32,800 your question, fix it. OK. 201 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,680 OK, you can always pass always but you know, we refer to it and 202 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:40,280 it's a little bit outdated but I'm going to name like what I 203 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,120 how I learned it was that there is big T trauma and little T 204 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,800 trauma and big T trauma is the shock Shock Trauma. 205 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,160 It's what y'all went through. I mean, it is and it and it's 206 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,240 anything else related to that 911 like things like that where 207 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,960 you people usually associate trauma with Shock Trauma and 208 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:04,360 then there's little T trauma and little T trauma is is probably 209 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,080 who I work with the most. And it's little beliefs over 210 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,120 time, specifically in childhood with your attachment figures, 211 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:20,040 your parents, where it creates some of those maladaptive memory 212 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,240 networks. And those are beliefs like I'm 213 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:29,400 unworthy, I can never get it right, I'm bad, I'm ugly. 214 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:35,320 And, and when those collect over time, you'll see someone who is 215 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:39,840 highly anxious, who can have PTSD symptoms, who doesn't 216 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,640 understand their self worth. And I, I'm not as concerned with 217 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,680 what the symptoms look like, more like what the belief is 218 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:52,360 underneath it. So if you're like, how what does 219 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,520 flying have to do with it? OK, so this is where we're 220 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,240 trying to experiment. OK, OK, so when you think about 221 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,520 flying, does it still, is it still around to this day? 222 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:04,480 Yes. OK, I did EMDR before this 223 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:05,600 happened. OK. 224 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,520 OK. So and have you done EMDR on the 225 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:09,280 the flying? No. 226 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:10,840 OK, cool. Perfect. 227 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,960 But I want to, yeah. You're about to right now. 228 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:19,080 You're here today. OK, so when you when you think 229 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,920 about flying like let's say you needed to go on a flight today 230 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:28,440 and anytime it feels like it's too much, hold up a stop sign 231 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,680 because your nervous system is our boss, OK? 232 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,200 OK. And the most important aspect of 233 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,880 trauma healing is titrating, meaning that like a pendulum, we 234 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,680 go into it and we go out of it so that your nervous system can 235 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:47,560 handle the activation or the trigger that's coming up so. 236 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,400 I'm already nervous. Uh huh, uh huh. 237 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:51,920 So hold up the stop sign Anytime. 238 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,560 OK, so where do you feel that in your body? 239 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,120 Right here in my chest. Yes. 240 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,920 So if you, you can even close your eyes if you feel 241 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,080 comfortable with that and just be with that. 242 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:07,200 And we are right here with you as you're noticing that. 243 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,240 And which emotions do you notice right now? 244 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,840 Boy, this is good out of control. 245 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,240 Fear, fear. And you can even right here put 246 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,640 both of your feet on the ground. OK, so that you just notice that 247 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,120 we are not flying right now. We're just thinking about flying 248 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,800 and out of control comes up. Yes, because my husband's death 249 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,920 was something I couldn't control. 250 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,680 You got it. Yeah, exactly. 251 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,400 And you're beautifully intelligent. 252 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,000 System is going to say don't do anything that could feel out of 253 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,320 control, right, Right. Can you see the intelligence in 254 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,040 that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 255 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,200 And how that part really wants to watch out for you. 256 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:57,400 And So what do you notice right now? 257 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,160 Weirdly calmer, I told you. Wow, I. 258 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,960 Think it might be your voice because I just take your voice 259 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,840 home with me. Absolutely, any day. 260 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,320 So I'm going to ask you one more question. 261 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,840 You're doing so great. OK, so let's identify your 262 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,600 belief about yourself related to flying. 263 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,160 Is it something like I'm not in control? 264 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,760 I'm not safe? What? 265 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,200 What are the words that go with it? 266 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,720 Safe is a big thing for me. Yeah. 267 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,640 And if you were to name the belief I am not safe, does that 268 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,120 hit the nail on the head? Yes. 269 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,240 OK. And when you think about I am 270 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,000 not safe with flying, how intense is that right now on a 271 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,480 zero to 10? Zero. 272 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,240 It's not as bad as it was earlier. 273 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,520 Beautiful. Yeah. 274 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,240 So you released some of it. Yeah. 275 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,320 And so which number would you give it now? 276 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,960 Probably A5. A5, yeah, OK. 277 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,040 And A5 is you. Look more serene, yeah? 278 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,680 OK, so take a couple of deep breaths and then if there's 279 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,200 anything else you want to notice from here, you can. 280 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,480 Otherwise, you can open your eyes when you're ready. 281 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,440 Wow that's so crazy that and y'all were even. 282 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,920 I usually don't do well if they're other people. 283 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,800 Like, I trust them though, and I feel safe with them. 284 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,520 So that's part of it. But it's a scary thing to 285 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,640 therapy of this kind for me. I don't imagine you felt this 286 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,840 too, like when you had me go see the same doctor that time. 287 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,560 You have to trust the person. Oh, yeah. 288 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,440 And that was one thing I felt immediately when I talked to you 289 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,480 on the phone that day. I thought, what am I telling 290 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,960 this person my whole life story within, you know, a few minutes 291 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,480 or less. But there was a safety feeling 292 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,600 there. And you have to feel safe with 293 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,880 the person that you're doing this with, because you have to 294 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,080 release it all in order for it to work. 295 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,120 Oh, yeah. And I do, I, I've, I'm a client 296 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,280 of EMDR. I, I started when I was 25. 297 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,880 I absolutely do my own work so that I, I understand what it's 298 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,160 like to be on the other side of the couch. 299 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,360 It is not easy. I get nervous every time I have 300 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,120 to process something because you have to be with it. 301 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,680 And I, I've experienced my own trauma in my life. 302 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,680 And so it is, it feels like it doesn't ever go away. 303 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,079 Right There is. And there's different views that 304 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:16,040 we have at one of my mentors talks about how it's like, it's 305 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,800 like artwork that we can look at it head on and and feel 306 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,839 something about it. And then we can go to a 307 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,079 different angle and feel something about it. 308 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:29,560 So when we work on trauma, it's like we will work on the the 309 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,000 bulk of it and then maybe someone will come in in six 310 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,760 months and say, can I do a tune up session? 311 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,160 There's a little bit of something like a three that's 312 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,200 coming up for me and we'll we'll tune that up. 313 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,520 And then usually the processing is so easy because they've 314 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,560 already done the heavy lifting. Well, what if it's not trauma 315 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,640 related? What if someone has? 316 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,840 I think all of us have either experienced anxiety but ours, 317 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,600 you know, I had it before Oliver's death. 318 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:59,440 I had some anxiety before that. Just life and then our kids 319 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,480 have, you know, I think everybody's kids now are 320 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,240 suffering from anxiety. So how do how do you know if 321 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,920 they need EMDR or they just need therapy? 322 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,680 That's a really good. Question, great question. 323 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,600 And I and I'll say that there are two approaches to therapy. 324 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,080 So there's a top down approach and a bottom up. 325 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:26,560 And top down is CBT, It's cognitive behavioral therapy, 326 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,600 it's talk therapy, it's finding ways of managing your symptoms 327 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,360 and while receiving support. And then bottom up is more of 328 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,960 the heavy lifting, which is how do we identify the root of 329 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,200 what's happening so that you don't have to manually override. 330 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,720 If we heal at the root, you do not have to manually override 331 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,360 your symptoms. Now the push and pull with that 332 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,160 is that not everyone is ready for heavy lifting. 333 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,840 So sometimes if someone is is in a really unstable place, then 334 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,080 they can't handle the deep, the deep work yet. 335 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,320 And so top down approach can help fortify them in some ways 336 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,720 so that then then they're ready to do the heavy lifting. 337 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,160 Yeah, I mean, I, I'm just trying to, of course I, I go to my own 338 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,280 feelings and anxieties and then my children's anxieties. 339 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,960 And I'm like, well, for me, I grew up in an alcoholic family. 340 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,400 You know, my father was an alcoholic and then my sister 341 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,520 followed suit. And so my whole childhood was 342 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,920 around this, but it wasn't one traumatic event. 343 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:41,360 And I don't feel like I came out of it thinking that I'm, you 344 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,440 know, unworthy of anything. I guess what I came out with was 345 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,240 I need to solve every. I'm, I'm going to take on 346 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,880 everybody's issues and solve them all. 347 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:55,800 But it creates a shit ton of anxiety because I have no 348 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,720 control when they're little. I have tons of control. 349 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,320 Now they're off in college and I've got. 350 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,440 Very. Little control over them and the 351 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,440 rest of their life. Like, I'll wake up in the middle 352 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,600 of the night. Like, how's Hayden gonna get a 353 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,000 job? Well, what's he gotta do in 354 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,240 order to get a job? Well, what's Sydney gonna do? 355 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,480 Is she ever gonna get married? What? 356 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,880 What about happened? She has a baby. 357 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,680 Like, what a, you know, just ridiculousness future 358 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,480 traumatizing myself with things that haven't ever even happened. 359 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,200 Does EMDR help that 'cause my nervous system right now, just 360 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,600 talking about it is out of control. 361 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:34,600 So like I'm still a little confused on who can benefit. 362 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,040 It sounded like everyone could benefit from it. 363 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,000 It's more about the charge. I think that about the trigger. 364 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,120 So you know, if someone comes in and they're like, I really want 365 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:50,680 to try EMDR and I think it's about something related to my 366 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,920 college experience and they're only activated about it too. 367 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,160 It's hard to get into it enough to then clear it. 368 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,960 It's when you're at an 8 on a zero to 10 or 0 is nothing and 369 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,400 10's the highest imaginable. You feel a release. 370 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,600 In a way you're like, wow, that was life changing for me. 371 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,880 I feel so different. And what's beautiful is that 372 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,320 with EMDR, it will decrease and desensitize, but then it it 373 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,280 continues to integrate over time. 374 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,560 It doesn't pop back up unless, like I mentioned with the 375 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,280 artwork, there's another angle to look at. 376 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,000 But you know, it's usually assessing if someone has enough 377 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,560 of a charge. Usually it's that feeling of 378 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,600 like, I know I need this, but I don't want to do it right. 379 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,280 Yeah, I don't want. To put the work in or feel all 380 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,200 those feelings. No. 381 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,240 And, and, and I, I have you heard of internal family systems 382 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,280 work, Richard Schwartz's work? OK, so that is probably my 383 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,520 second favorite to work with alongside EMDR other than 384 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,800 neuroscience and even yoga and things like that. 385 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,200 But so do you want me to go into it? 386 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,040 OK, OK, let's do it Face light up when you. 387 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,040 Mentioned it, so I want to know what's got you so. 388 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,560 Well, he so the movie Inside Out is based off of Richard 389 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,640 Schwartz's work. OK And so for the parts they 390 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,800 labeled them as emotions, but he looks at it a little 391 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,400 differently. And so when when something 392 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,240 happens. So his theory is that we all are 393 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,000 born with self energy. And when we are in self energy, 394 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,160 there are 8 CS and a few of them are confidence, clarity, 395 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,560 compassion, creativity, connection. 396 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:48,920 And what happens is that we experience trauma and trauma. 397 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,000 The best definition that I have for trauma is when anything is 398 00:22:53,760 --> 00:23:00,040 too much, too fast, or too soon. And I feel like our culture 399 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,640 likes to put a lot of value judgements on who qualifies for 400 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,640 trauma and who doesn't. And I feel like that's really 401 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,200 unfair because it's a subjective experience. 402 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,760 And so anything that's too much, too fast or too soon for our 403 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,160 nervous systems will show up as a hurt part. 404 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,560 So this is where we get into the parts. 405 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,960 So a part will show up and let's say that part is the belief that 406 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,720 you need. So I'm not safe. 407 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,640 And what will happen is that the nervousness, especially if 408 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,160 you're a little kid, can't handle feeling that all the 409 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,720 time. So you develop unconsciously 410 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,400 protectors to keep you from feeling that all the time. 411 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,360 So protectors show up in the versions of managers and 412 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:53,000 firefighters and those parts will look like excessive video 413 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,360 game playing, binge eating, a type, personalities. 414 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,200 So many different things, ways of numbing, distracting, 415 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,960 perfectionism. Perfect one, yes. 416 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,520 Opposite of people who have fear because I do it. 417 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,520 Yes, I know that I know I'm doing it and I don't want to do 418 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,120 it, but it's how I manage. Like when Oliver died, I 419 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,560 obsessively would clean. I would obsessively make sure 420 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,560 every dot was dotted and every did y'all do that? 421 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,120 Like a way of controlling your environment because you couldn't 422 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:26,960 control what happened. There's a. 423 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,840 Did y'all feel that at? All I went straight to just 424 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,520 cussing. So you had a cussing protector 425 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,520 that showed up and I. Started cussing like a. 426 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,760 Sailor Hero. What was I don't know. 427 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,040 I had so many things that came at me. 428 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,000 I had so many different facets to my trauma that I don't think 429 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,120 I went into one thing, but I definitely avoidance was big and 430 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:59,400 I still avoid certain things like going through photos and 431 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,120 going through his things. I still, I avoid, I avoid the 432 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,200 the pain of that kind of stuff and I was avoiding the 433 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,040 processing of what had happened in the car accident, which is 434 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,280 how I ended up with Doctor Vasquez, which was good. 435 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,800 What about your escapisms? I remember you and I've talked. 436 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,640 We both love to travel, which is ironic. 437 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,120 I got out of town a lot. I did. 438 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:24,040 I left town a lot and I fantasized a lot about leaving 439 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,400 this area permanently. I'm still fantasized about that 440 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,840 actually, but I wanted to get away. 441 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,240 I, I was told everyone made fun of me when I was in the hospital 442 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,120 and I had was on a lot of drugs that I had told everyone that 443 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,960 the kids and I were going to move to Hawaii. 444 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,120 I had never even visited Hawaii. I didn't know anyone in Hawaii. 445 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,960 But I was on a lot of Dilaudid and I think I just had this 446 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:54,200 really strong escape instinct. I just wanted to leave the place 447 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840 that had done this to me, where this had taken place. 448 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,920 And all the reminders of the life that you lost. 449 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,200 Yeah, and I've stayed. I've stayed for 10 years, but I 450 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,520 still have that urge to kind of leave the place where it 451 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,920 happened. I chose not to because that 452 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,400 wasn't the best thing at the time, but for the kids or for 453 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,920 like, you know, all of the medical things that we were 454 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,280 going through and I was going through. 455 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,600 But strong escapism urges huge. Which I think that makes a lot 456 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,200 of sense. Yeah. 457 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:28,720 Who wants to stick around? I mean, you experienced trauma 458 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,320 as well. I mean, who wants to stick 459 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,760 around in it? But we all know that it will 460 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,080 find you and it can't be circumvented. 461 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,760 So we're all big believers in doing the work because even even 462 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,560 though we had you and I both had a strong desire to escape, we 463 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,680 knew we had to do the work or we would never get better. 464 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,240 It was never going to get better. 465 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,960 That's why I believe in EMDR. I mean, and it's weird, it 466 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,520 didn't even take that many sessions. 467 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,200 Well, that was going to be my next question is how long does 468 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,360 it typically take? And I know everybody's 469 00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,240 different. I think it's, It depends on how 470 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,000 complex it is. And so part of the protocol is 471 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,200 assessing and treatment planning and I sit down with my clients 472 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,560 to show them, OK, so how many we call them targets. 473 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,520 So what we identified with Laci that would that would be a 474 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,200 target around flying and that's one target. 475 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:25,080 And it sounds like because it's of 1A belief around safety that 476 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,160 there could be other targets related to that. 477 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:32,920 And so it I'm able to give someone an idea of how many 478 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,080 after we assess how complex it is and which belief it is. 479 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,760 I really mean it when I say the person's nervous system is our 480 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:46,040 boss because we cannot go faster than what their nervous system 481 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,280 is able to handle. That will re traumatize someone 482 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,120 it sort. Of felt like that when I was 483 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,000 going through it, I did not enjoy it at all. 484 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,400 It was very, very, very hard. And I would try to get up and 485 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,600 leave and he's like, just sit down, just take a minute. 486 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,040 Because it just wasn't fun. No. 487 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,960 And I felt like also, I guess I have a little bit of the 488 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,360 perfectionism. I felt like I wasn't doing it 489 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:13,080 right. I felt like like the whole time 490 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,440 I'm in the process trying to process the trauma, I also felt 491 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,800 like I was failing at it. And so that was a whole other 492 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,720 like dual thing that was fighting inside me because every 493 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:29,360 time I would, he had me sitting and looking at a color chart and 494 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,920 it was a rainbow. And it was, I don't want to get 495 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,640 too far into it, but I would have to like, for instance, look 496 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,560 at the green layer of the rainbow chart and talk about 497 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,960 being trapped in the car and talk about catching on fire and 498 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,320 talk about that moment. And he made me repeat it over 499 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,720 and over and over and over. And the whole color chart would 500 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,000 turn brown. So crazy. 501 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,600 And he was like, if it turns brown, you have to stop. 502 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,040 You have to be able to still see the color. 503 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,160 So we would just do it over and over. 504 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,800 And it kept turning brown for me because when I would talk about 505 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,080 these events, my whole vision would just kind of go black, 506 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:10,800 right? Right. 507 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,080 And it was cool in the way that it worked, but it was also not 508 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,920 easy. And then I was mad because he'd 509 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,600 be like, OK, let's switch to orange. 510 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,480 And like that orange was even worse. 511 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,640 Like I would start to tell the story and it would go brown 512 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,160 immediately. When I looked at orange, he's 513 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,400 like, OK, orange isn't good. Let's go back to let's go back 514 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,520 to green. What? 515 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,040 Your green does is I mean. Yeah, the fact that you lose 516 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,160 color. Everything just would go black. 517 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,680 And you can be impatient with a lot of the process too. 518 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,120 I mean, and DRI thought if I have to repeat this one more 519 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,560 time, I'm just so over like talking. 520 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,120 That I love that you brought that up and when I think about 521 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,960 repeating that experience, I really like to bring in Laura 522 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,800 Parnell's work, which is attachment based EMDR which and 523 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,920 is it OK if I name a little bit of what you said about the 524 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,200 trauma specific? Yeah, of course. 525 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,160 So we bring in resourcing. We, it's called installation of 526 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,560 resourcing into that memory. So if it feels like too much and 527 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,680 if you're going, if you're not able to stay with the green, 528 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,760 that tells me that you're going outside of your window of 529 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,520 tolerance, which I can explain in a minute, which is so useful. 530 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:28,600 I use it all the time, but we would install a nurturing, 531 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,040 protective and wise figure onto the scene of that memory for. 532 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:33,520 You. Oh. 533 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,280 Cool, I just got chilled. Right. 534 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,960 It is so powerful. She's brilliant and and we we 535 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,440 spend time picking who it is and who needs to be there and 536 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,760 sometimes. It's an actual person. 537 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,840 Oh, I mean, some people have done, Mrs. Weasley from Harry 538 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,840 Potter. It is like the Sky's the limit. 539 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,640 It's like a grandmother who's passed. 540 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,960 It's like your child. It's like whoever, yes. 541 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,480 It is not about how do we desensitize, How do we get you 542 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,720 out of this memory? How do we make you feel better 543 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,920 as fast as possible? It's how do we resource and pay 544 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,080 attention to the intelligence of your body and what it's telling 545 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,440 you and me about what's needed because I'm not the expert in 546 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,280 that. You are. 547 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,240 You have all of the wisdom, everything you need within you 548 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,680 to heal it. I'm just along for the ride. 549 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,920 And I do just want to clarify and say that Doctor Vasquez was 550 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,800 great and did help me a great deal. 551 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,560 It wasn't like I was being tortured. 552 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,480 No, he was super kind and gentle. 553 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,480 It just when you were talking about how hard the bottom up 554 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,080 that kind of work is, it is no joke. 555 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,680 It's easier to just go in the therapist's office and bitch 556 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,520 about the election or your neighbors or it's easier to go 557 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,440 and do that kind of therapy than what we're talking about where 558 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,280 you're actually reliving these like really horrific moments. 559 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,360 We're going to stop here and let everybody take a breath. 560 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,880 This is going to be part one of our conversation with Katie. 561 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,720 Join us for Part 2, where she discusses some of the techniques 562 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,800 in an EMDR session, how to choose the right therapist, and 563 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,800 how EMDR can help people in grief. 564 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,720 Oh, and Kyra compares it to her gynecologist. 565 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,200 You're not going to want to miss it. 566 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,080 Stay tuned.