1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:03,880 You found us. I'm glad you did, but I'm so 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,280 sorry you had to. The good news is, we got you. 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,480 Who are we? I'll tell you what, we're not. 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,200 We're not old, we're not boring, and we're not giving up. 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,000 So come sit in our widow circle where trauma meets humor. 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,600 And we remind you that you can not only survive, but thrive. 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,040 This is every widow thing. Welcome. 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,280 We're back and we're here to share some of our stories. 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:30,720 Today. It's going to be Lacey. 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,920 She's about to dive into a really difficult, heavy day, the 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,800 death of her husband. We're going to let Lacey take it 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,560 over and share her story about Oliver. 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,600 So Oliver and I were about to celebrate our 10 year wedding 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,560 anniversary. We were married September 23rd, 15 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:55,080 2001 and he had a tech conference in Las Vegas. 16 00:00:55,490 --> 00:00:57,930 Which is probably not my favorite place to go. 17 00:00:57,930 --> 00:01:01,010 It's been a long time since I've been, but we thought we'll tack 18 00:01:01,010 --> 00:01:04,690 on our trip there. Stayed at a wonderful hotel, so 19 00:01:04,690 --> 00:01:07,810 we had it all planned and we had our son Ryder, who was six at 20 00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:09,530 the time. We had some family members come 21 00:01:09,570 --> 00:01:14,210 to stay with them, but backing up the day before we were going 22 00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:17,810 to leave to go to Vegas for the 10 year, he started not feeling 23 00:01:17,810 --> 00:01:19,890 well. His back was hurting and his 24 00:01:19,890 --> 00:01:21,890 stomach was hurting anyway. So. 25 00:01:22,410 --> 00:01:26,250 I got him an appointment to see an internal medicine doctor. 26 00:01:26,610 --> 00:01:31,170 I have to say, Oliver's never had an illness, a cold maybe. 27 00:01:31,490 --> 00:01:34,770 He's never had a surgery, never done a drug in his life, barely 28 00:01:34,770 --> 00:01:36,770 drank. He was super into fitness. 29 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:41,610 So I say that because we went into the doctor and he couldn't 30 00:01:41,610 --> 00:01:44,090 see us. So they sent us to the PA in the 31 00:01:44,090 --> 00:01:49,610 office and she misdiagnosed him with a stomach virus and a 32 00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:52,570 pulled muscle. So we went home. 33 00:01:52,570 --> 00:01:55,170 And it's just by talking to him like she just asked him some 34 00:01:55,170 --> 00:01:57,570 questions. Yeah, she did blood work but she 35 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:00,330 did not do a urinalysis, which you should do when someone has a 36 00:02:00,330 --> 00:02:02,170 backache. Learned all. 37 00:02:02,170 --> 00:02:04,210 I learned a lot of these things. So yes. 38 00:02:04,770 --> 00:02:09,330 And so we went home with muscle relaxers and I can't some anti 39 00:02:09,330 --> 00:02:13,410 nausea medicine went home and we had this thing called a sick Bay 40 00:02:13,650 --> 00:02:16,810 at our house. You go upstairs if that way both 41 00:02:16,810 --> 00:02:19,500 can sleep well. Well, I got a text the next 42 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:23,860 morning that said it's the darkest night I ever saw and I 43 00:02:23,860 --> 00:02:26,700 did not know what that. Meant from Oliver texting you. 44 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:29,540 Yeah, and it was very foreboding because I didn't know what it 45 00:02:29,540 --> 00:02:31,500 meant. I didn't think much about it at 46 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:32,300 the time. Right. 47 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:35,420 Was he the type that would like overreact? 48 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:40,220 I wish he would have, no. He was a very quiet introverted. 49 00:02:40,660 --> 00:02:43,500 He could be a baby like meaning if he had a sniffle. 50 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:47,100 But this was very different. I could tell he was not well. 51 00:02:47,470 --> 00:02:50,390 So I went and made an appointment, he said, his back 52 00:02:50,470 --> 00:02:55,110 with the orthopedic surgeon. I have a sports injury, so I had 53 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:57,190 that scheduled for the day at like 3:00, o'clock in the 54 00:02:57,190 --> 00:03:00,910 afternoon, and I took my son to school. 55 00:03:01,670 --> 00:03:04,950 So thank thank God for that. So he didn't see any of this all 56 00:03:04,950 --> 00:03:08,190 play out. But my husband came downstairs 57 00:03:08,230 --> 00:03:11,710 and he was moaning a lot and I remember thinking, good Lord, 58 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:15,190 someone who has nausea and a backache, why is he moaning so 59 00:03:15,190 --> 00:03:17,350 much? But I have a back injury so I 60 00:03:17,350 --> 00:03:19,270 thought that's got to be what this is. 61 00:03:19,670 --> 00:03:24,250 So I made that appointment. And it was probably about 9:00 62 00:03:24,250 --> 00:03:27,090 or so in the morning, and I put him in a in his office chair, 63 00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:29,450 which had wheels on it. He was in so much pain. 64 00:03:29,450 --> 00:03:33,650 He couldn't walk anymore. And while he was in that chair, 65 00:03:34,410 --> 00:03:37,850 we were talking. And I heard this clicking noise 66 00:03:37,850 --> 00:03:39,970 in his mouth. And I and my that's the part 67 00:03:39,970 --> 00:03:43,730 where I'm not going to go into. But he ended up falling over. 68 00:03:43,730 --> 00:03:46,890 I called EMS, ran and unlocked the front door. 69 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:50,290 They came flying in. I gave him the medicines he was 70 00:03:50,290 --> 00:03:54,050 taking. And no sooner than that, about 71 00:03:54,050 --> 00:03:57,450 five cops come in. So whenever that happens, I've 72 00:03:57,450 --> 00:04:00,930 now learned that that's that's protocol when it happens in your 73 00:04:00,930 --> 00:04:03,210 home. But they pushed me down in a 74 00:04:03,210 --> 00:04:06,970 chair and the female told me to calm down. 75 00:04:07,170 --> 00:04:11,570 So my husband's being wheeled out in a coma in my home. 76 00:04:11,570 --> 00:04:15,050 And you're by yourself. And I'm by myself and I'm shoved 77 00:04:15,050 --> 00:04:17,170 down in a chair, literally shoved in the chair. 78 00:04:17,990 --> 00:04:20,790 And so I'm trying to call my sister and tell her to come 79 00:04:20,790 --> 00:04:24,310 earlier instead of later because she was going to keep my son 80 00:04:24,310 --> 00:04:28,870 before we go to Vegas. And so And the phone dropped. 81 00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:31,030 I can't remember. The cop hit my arm or something. 82 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:34,230 The phone dropped, so my sister just came Anyway, thank God. 83 00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:38,070 And the EMS guy, I'll never forget his face. 84 00:04:38,110 --> 00:04:41,310 I've every EMS that I see, I look in there to see if it's at 85 00:04:41,310 --> 00:04:43,710 him. Such a comforting face. 86 00:04:43,710 --> 00:04:46,110 I remember. And he told them back off. 87 00:04:46,970 --> 00:04:51,050 She didn't cause any of this. This is internal and that's how 88 00:04:51,050 --> 00:04:53,490 I got released. So they were treating you? 89 00:04:53,690 --> 00:04:56,010 Like I'd done something that's. Crazy. 90 00:04:56,050 --> 00:04:57,810 Yeah. Because my husband died at home, 91 00:04:57,810 --> 00:04:59,650 Sort of. And yeah, because not. 92 00:04:59,690 --> 00:05:01,530 You were always allowed to go in the ambulance. 93 00:05:01,570 --> 00:05:02,690 I don't understand. Why? 94 00:05:02,690 --> 00:05:06,410 That's just automatically. No, that's a big That's why it 95 00:05:06,450 --> 00:05:08,530 was so trauma. That's only one piece of the 96 00:05:08,530 --> 00:05:11,730 traumatizing part, right? But his one of my girlfriends 97 00:05:11,730 --> 00:05:14,630 came and picked me up. And drove me there. 98 00:05:14,750 --> 00:05:16,870 And she was a nervous wreck, so it was. 99 00:05:17,350 --> 00:05:19,750 Do they not have another person drive you? 100 00:05:19,870 --> 00:05:21,750 No, I cannot. You had to believe they didn't 101 00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:24,430 let you in the ambulance because they were still interrogating me 102 00:05:24,430 --> 00:05:27,390 while he's gone. They had to take him immediately 103 00:05:27,390 --> 00:05:30,350 and he's crazy, so they had to go take care of him. 104 00:05:30,990 --> 00:05:34,390 And so meanwhile my friend comes against me and she's was my only 105 00:05:34,390 --> 00:05:35,670 friend. That was a stay at home mom. 106 00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:38,790 All my other friends worked. So I was like, who can drop and 107 00:05:38,790 --> 00:05:44,270 come and get me so quickly? I called her, we go to the Seton 108 00:05:44,350 --> 00:05:48,830 and he's in the ER. And I kept saying, is he in a 109 00:05:48,830 --> 00:05:50,430 coma? Is he not in a coma? 110 00:05:50,430 --> 00:05:52,790 And they wouldn't give me any answers. 111 00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:56,110 It was very frustrating. And they sent me the priest who 112 00:05:56,110 --> 00:05:59,270 was this 20 something guy? Oh my God, poor guy. 113 00:05:59,990 --> 00:06:03,630 And we were trying to get in touch with my fatherinlaw in 114 00:06:03,630 --> 00:06:05,670 Germany. And no one's giving you really 115 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:07,550 any information. He's in a room. 116 00:06:07,630 --> 00:06:10,270 You're not with him. You're just waiting to hear I. 117 00:06:10,270 --> 00:06:12,630 Don't know what's we don't know why he's in a coma. 118 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:15,550 He's had a stomach virus and a pulled muscle, right? 119 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:19,150 So we kept trying to call Europe, but Seton didn't at the 120 00:06:19,150 --> 00:06:21,830 time. You couldn't call outside the 121 00:06:21,830 --> 00:06:23,950 country, so I couldn't get a hold of him. 122 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,640 So here his son is in a coma and I can't reach his father so that 123 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,560 was frustrating. But anyway, we ended up getting 124 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,720 that figured out. But through the day he 125 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,320 subsequently never comes out of the coma. 126 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,760 When were you able to like how? How long were you kept from him 127 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,600 before you could go in? They finally it was afternoon. 128 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,840 It was probably one or two. So this was at like 930 or one 129 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:50,440 or two in the afternoon. By the time I was able, they put 130 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,790 him in a room in the ICU. And then it wasn't until 3:00 131 00:06:53,790 --> 00:06:57,070 o'clock that we found it because the heart surgeon and come and 132 00:06:57,070 --> 00:07:01,070 talk to me and the infectious disease guy was the best one of 133 00:07:01,070 --> 00:07:03,430 all. He came to me and he said I 134 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:05,430 don't even know how someone this healthy. 135 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:09,750 He said, I think that it's his healthy, made it so bad because 136 00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:13,390 when you have Group A strep, which everybody has had probably 137 00:07:13,390 --> 00:07:17,910 in this room by strep throat, strep throat, but bacteria can 138 00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:20,770 get into. Through a cut through, we think 139 00:07:20,770 --> 00:07:23,810 maybe dental work that he had had done, we don't know, but it 140 00:07:23,810 --> 00:07:26,050 happens to people all the time. But. 141 00:07:26,050 --> 00:07:30,290 You did say if you have strep throat you should not get. 142 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:32,450 Never get dental. Dental work done strep throat. 143 00:07:32,530 --> 00:07:35,210 And how long had he When was the dental? 144 00:07:35,210 --> 00:07:39,890 Work five days prior so we don't know for sure cuz she like there 145 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:42,010 was a kid recently I sent you guys an article. 146 00:07:42,010 --> 00:07:47,050 Same thing happened to him but it was his was the the type with 147 00:07:47,050 --> 00:07:49,400 the the skin. He had a cut. 148 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,000 Yeah. It was a cut or something. 149 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,000 But you know we have a lot of orifices in our bodies and you 150 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,520 can have. I mean cuts like I have one on 151 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:55,960 my hand. Yeah. 152 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,680 I mean that's how we can get in. I mean it. 153 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,760 It's everywhere. And this is much more common 154 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,480 than people want to know because they're it's scary to hear 155 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,160 right. That a healthy person who. 156 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,080 And that's what the. 3630. 838, yeah. 157 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,360 It is true and it people always want to know. 158 00:08:16,050 --> 00:08:17,610 Well, well. Was he sick? 159 00:08:17,770 --> 00:08:22,090 Well, they're trying to figure out to to make them feel safe 160 00:08:22,090 --> 00:08:25,530 that it won't happen to them. The infectious disease doctor 161 00:08:25,530 --> 00:08:29,490 made me realize, he said that the problem with someone like 162 00:08:29,490 --> 00:08:32,929 him, he said he's the healthiest person I've ever known that this 163 00:08:32,929 --> 00:08:36,690 has happened to. He said it's disturbing and so 164 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:39,679 that said. So that it was right before 165 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,080 midnight and you know, it wouldn't until the afternoon, by 166 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,520 the way, that we didn't, that we knew exactly what it was, right. 167 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,560 So I'm still thinking ingested something. 168 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:49,680 So I went home and I cleaned out the refrigerator. 169 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:55,800 I was panicked and then I went back to the the ER and he had 170 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,400 had he'd coded several times and no one called me. 171 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,640 So I was furious, I don't know. But no one called me and I said 172 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,370 my number is on the board. Next time I'm not leaving 173 00:09:07,370 --> 00:09:09,010 anymore. So now they were like, Oh no, 174 00:09:09,010 --> 00:09:11,210 she's never going to go home. Well, they thought he was going 175 00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:13,330 to be there for a while. People do come out of this. 176 00:09:14,210 --> 00:09:15,850 It's more common than people think. 177 00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:19,930 But that night, just before midnight, he he died. 178 00:09:20,330 --> 00:09:21,490 So. Were you with him? 179 00:09:22,010 --> 00:09:25,370 Yes, well, they pushed me out of the room because they were going 180 00:09:25,370 --> 00:09:28,490 to try to revive him. And he never came out of the 181 00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:32,730 coma, so there was there was a goodbye from my end, but I did 182 00:09:32,730 --> 00:09:36,050 see his hand move and as I started cocking up and down when 183 00:09:36,050 --> 00:09:38,410 I was talking to him, at one point the nurse was there and 184 00:09:38,410 --> 00:09:41,370 she said I have not seen that him do that so. 185 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:44,530 And when you were sitting with him at that point, you hadn't. 186 00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:48,530 I mean, did you ever think that he was going to die? 187 00:09:48,530 --> 00:09:50,530 You just thought this is serious and. 188 00:09:51,260 --> 00:09:53,580 Did anybody have knew it? You did. 189 00:09:53,660 --> 00:09:55,380 You had an instinct. I did. 190 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:58,820 My sister took me outside to get some fresh air and even though 191 00:09:58,820 --> 00:10:00,900 the doctor said I think you need to prepare for a long haul 192 00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:03,660 because people do come out of it, they were preparing me for a 193 00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:06,980 long haul. But I knew and I told my sister, 194 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:09,740 she said, I remember you telling that, said no, it's over. 195 00:10:10,380 --> 00:10:11,900 And she said, well why don't we pray? 196 00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:15,540 And I said you can, because I do believe in God. 197 00:10:15,540 --> 00:10:18,900 I want to make that clear. But I was very angry, very 198 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:21,020 angry. This happened to such a nice 199 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:25,620 person, someone so young, And it was so. 200 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:29,860 What was it that made you think maybe this was the end or that 201 00:10:29,860 --> 00:10:31,180 maybe he wasn't gonna pull through? 202 00:10:31,220 --> 00:10:35,100 I think I was told in my. I think that's the connection 203 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:36,220 that I have, because I was. I was. 204 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,240 I think God. I think it's a God thing. 205 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,040 I think he was preparing me for what was about to happen and it 206 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,000 didn't prepare me, but it was still. 207 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,120 I was terrified. I was angry for a long time, and 208 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,240 no one better mention God to me at the time because they knew 209 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,200 better, because I was really angry. 210 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,640 Can I ask you a question about telling Ryder? 211 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,680 Do you feel comfortable sharing that part of it? 212 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,280 I do, because I think people need to know that. 213 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,040 I think people think, oh, it's been 11 1/2 years. 214 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,560 Aren't you over it yet? I'm sure you all heard that. 215 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:15,400 Or you're doing well. You should be good. 216 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,640 Well, imagine that. OK, so my son had gone to sleep 217 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,320 because this is after midnight. This is just before midnight 218 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,080 that he died. So my son had gone to sleep. 219 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,800 My sister and brotherinlaw had come in town, thankfully. 220 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,050 And he's six years old. I mean, where did he? 221 00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:32,890 He just thought his dad was sick and he was at the hospital. 222 00:11:32,890 --> 00:11:34,330 But he just thought he'll come home. 223 00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:37,050 Yeah, because that's because, you know, we still didn't know. 224 00:11:37,090 --> 00:11:39,490 I mean, we were still in the dark up until he died. 225 00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:44,730 So it was we put him, they put him to bed and. 226 00:11:46,220 --> 00:11:48,780 My parents came and got me, and my parents drove all night from 227 00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:50,140 Mississippi. And you know, my parents are 228 00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:52,700 older too. So they drove all night, came 229 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:55,460 and got me and I didn't sleep at all. 230 00:11:55,460 --> 00:11:58,460 And then the next morning, obviously I've been crying for 231 00:11:58,460 --> 00:12:01,700 the entire day and so my son came out and he was mom. 232 00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:03,860 You look weird. Your eyes look weird. 233 00:12:04,540 --> 00:12:06,860 And I this is the part that's hard. 234 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:09,740 We should have had some Kleenex in here. 235 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:14,780 What were we thinking you? Don't have to. 236 00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:16,100 Talk about it. Yeah. 237 00:12:17,660 --> 00:12:22,100 I remember when we were driving to go tell my kids and you're 238 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:24,540 thinking their whole life is about to change. 239 00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:26,740 Right now, everything is the same. 240 00:12:27,140 --> 00:12:30,340 They have no idea. And I am about to have to be the 241 00:12:30,340 --> 00:12:33,660 person that breaks their world open. 242 00:12:33,980 --> 00:12:39,540 And that is the hardest thing. I can't imagine having to tell a 243 00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:43,100 six year old who hasn't had really any. 244 00:12:43,580 --> 00:12:48,180 Experience with death at all. And he was trying to comfort me. 245 00:12:48,180 --> 00:12:49,500 That's the way he broke my heart. 246 00:12:50,140 --> 00:12:52,300 Yeah, of course he. Was yeah. 247 00:12:52,380 --> 00:12:54,180 And he still. He still does. 248 00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:56,100 He. Still does. 249 00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:59,460 He's still just the total. I mean, that's why I tell people 250 00:12:59,460 --> 00:13:04,420 that I poured all my energy into him and he's what got me 251 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:05,460 through. So I was. 252 00:13:05,540 --> 00:13:07,660 He's an incredible kid. Incredible. 253 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:09,740 He is. I'm grateful for that. 254 00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:15,270 Just maybe for some of our listeners, maybe move on to what 255 00:13:15,270 --> 00:13:19,270 happened then in terms of there's so much that has to be 256 00:13:19,270 --> 00:13:23,110 handled and I didn't know you then, but people must have 257 00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:26,510 stepped in and I. Did I was fortunate that we had 258 00:13:26,510 --> 00:13:29,030 been living here. We were both new here at the 259 00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:31,030 same time. So when we first started dating, 260 00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:33,590 it was kind of laughable. We, he knew all the people that 261 00:13:33,630 --> 00:13:36,390 at Vignette was the software company because he'd been there 262 00:13:36,390 --> 00:13:37,670 a while. I was new. 263 00:13:37,830 --> 00:13:40,190 I hadn't been there but a few months when we got together. 264 00:13:40,610 --> 00:13:44,970 So we have a lot of, we had a lot of friends that that one of 265 00:13:44,970 --> 00:13:47,890 them did the 12 days of Christmas, my little play group. 266 00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:51,290 And so every day they would leave a surprise at the front 267 00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:53,850 door and writer would go and get the surprise. 268 00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:56,290 He was so excited. You know, his dad had just died. 269 00:13:56,290 --> 00:14:00,450 And you know, I learned after reading a lot of books that kids 270 00:14:00,450 --> 00:14:04,690 at every age have a different grieving process, the kids that 271 00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:07,220 were older. Sometimes in their way they 272 00:14:07,460 --> 00:14:09,900 grieve harder. Mine could only go in for little 273 00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:12,820 periods of time and then he'd video game and then he would go 274 00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:16,620 out of and then come back again and and sometimes he would cry 275 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:20,220 about things that were not related to that and but I knew 276 00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:21,860 that's what it was, that. Related, yeah. 277 00:14:22,380 --> 00:14:24,700 But the 12 Days of Christmas was really fun. 278 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:27,820 So every day he would wait, which is the one? 279 00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:30,380 The dancing girls. That's the 12 Days of Christmas. 280 00:14:30,740 --> 00:14:31,220 Yeah. How many? 281 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:33,140 What number is that? Please don't make me sing it. 282 00:14:33,340 --> 00:14:35,580 So. I'm on the first day of. 283 00:14:35,980 --> 00:14:36,980 Is that what it? Was ladies. 284 00:14:37,380 --> 00:14:39,140 They're. Like, can can girls? 285 00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:41,420 I think so. A friend of that's in the 286 00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:43,660 playgroup, Amy. I won't say her last name. 287 00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:48,220 She has all the dancing girls from her kids. 288 00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:50,660 School. Oh, my Internet. 289 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:56,200 Or dancing with a Jaron box. It was hysterical. 290 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,120 The whole neighborhood was staring like, what is going on 291 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,160 at our house? That's amazing. 292 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,600 But it was it. It really helped him. 293 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,600 Yeah. Your. 294 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,560 Heart is breaking for yourself, but your heart is breaking for 295 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,160 them because they're babies and you know, your brain goes to all 296 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,320 the things that they won't have now that their dad is. 297 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,880 Gosh, that is true. It was weird. 298 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,840 Everybody's like, it's so hard. I said the hard part, Honestly, 299 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,840 two things for what Oliver was missing. 300 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,360 He missed so much. I mean, he's missed every grade. 301 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,640 He's about to graduate high school and he's missed 12 302 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,320 grades. Fortunately, several years in 303 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,320 life started getting a lot better. 304 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,160 But I could not go to dinner every nights. 305 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,360 I had to be home when he'd get home from school because he 306 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,320 would panic if I wasn't there. I. 307 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,520 Was going to ask you talk about your PTSD from just having to 308 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,680 deal with that day, but I was wondering if he also had. 309 00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:57,300 PTSD. I talked to the therapist that I 310 00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:59,100 got. Fortunately, my friend Mark gave 311 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:02,740 me the name of a great therapist and so that happened quickly and 312 00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:05,420 she always say it was God, therapist, family and friends 313 00:16:05,420 --> 00:16:08,020 that saved me because she was amazing. 314 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:11,980 She said if at his age the grieving process is different. 315 00:16:11,980 --> 00:16:14,060 She said if you're better, he'll be better. 316 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:18,540 She was right, So the better I could cope and the better I took 317 00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:21,320 care of myself. The better I was able to take 318 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,040 care of him and every day I could just see him getting a 319 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,120 little lighter. And we did end up switching 320 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,240 schools because he did not like being the pathetic one. 321 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,480 He wrote about it actually in his college essay I found it in 322 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:33,840 one of them was. I thought he didn't really talk 323 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,520 much about it because he doesn't like to talk about his dad's 324 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,240 death. He likes to talk about being a 325 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,600 Thriver. He's doesn't like being a 326 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,880 victim. That bugs him. 327 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,880 So I I saw that he talked about when he switched schools because 328 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,000 they asked him why. He did one of those interviews 329 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,000 for one of the colleges and he said, well, my dad died, he 330 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:53,600 said. But I don't. 331 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,040 I didn't want to be the kid that everybody pitied. 332 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,600 So I went to school that was going to be challenging. 333 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,040 I like languages and so we switched schools. 334 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,880 And was this in second grade? Yes, OK. 335 00:17:05,349 --> 00:17:09,589 So we stayed at the other school for the year and that was not 336 00:17:09,589 --> 00:17:12,270 good for either one of us because I don't like a lot of 337 00:17:12,270 --> 00:17:15,349 attention. Yeah, you're similar, he You 338 00:17:15,349 --> 00:17:18,349 don't want to be looked at as a victim or pity to, you know. 339 00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:20,349 So. Not that that's what they were 340 00:17:20,349 --> 00:17:24,069 doing, but people don't know how to handle the grief and so they 341 00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:27,589 look at you with sympathy, but it also can just be you. 342 00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:31,430 Don't want it to define you. I mean, it's being a big part of 343 00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:34,070 the story and you know when you meet people. 344 00:17:34,850 --> 00:17:37,890 That's always going to come into play, but you just don't want it 345 00:17:37,890 --> 00:17:39,330 to define you. Exactly. 346 00:17:39,330 --> 00:17:42,810 And especially for him. And so I it was kind of scary 347 00:17:42,810 --> 00:17:43,930 though. He didn't speak a lick. 348 00:17:43,970 --> 00:17:46,330 This is what he said. The essay is really true. 349 00:17:46,770 --> 00:17:49,930 I was like, oh God, I'm sending my kid to a Spanish immersion 350 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:51,770 school. I don't speak Spanish. 351 00:17:51,770 --> 00:17:54,010 I'm like 3 years of German and I'm still not good. 352 00:17:54,410 --> 00:17:56,330 So we go to a Spanish immersion school. 353 00:17:56,330 --> 00:18:00,610 All the kids have been there since PP3, so that's 345. 354 00:18:01,310 --> 00:18:03,270 He's coming in after they've had three years. 355 00:18:03,550 --> 00:18:06,750 Wow. Fortunately, he saw a kid that 356 00:18:06,750 --> 00:18:10,070 he had gone to camp with. Love that kid so much because 357 00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:13,030 when he saw his face, I thought, I'm going to be OK, He's going 358 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:13,990 to be 1. Friend he's got. 359 00:18:14,110 --> 00:18:17,470 One friend, Layton, I'll say his name so. 360 00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:19,550 Layton. He was so cute. 361 00:18:19,550 --> 00:18:24,470 He still is, but he helped him and the the teacher, who was 362 00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:27,670 from Barcelona, said. I'm going to tell you, you wait. 363 00:18:28,750 --> 00:18:31,710 It's just gonna start happening and then flash forward. 364 00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:33,910 A couple of months later, they had to give a presentation. 365 00:18:33,910 --> 00:18:37,350 He wore his dad's tie, he said. He said I want to look good. 366 00:18:37,630 --> 00:18:40,510 Seven years old. He puts on a big old tie and 367 00:18:40,510 --> 00:18:42,070 he's, they had to wear uniforms there. 368 00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:45,110 And so he puts on the tie and he's giving his presentation in 369 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:46,470 Spanish. I didn't know what he was 370 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:48,910 saying, so I had to turn to some of the parents and I was like, 371 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:50,430 is it good? Is it not good? 372 00:18:50,750 --> 00:18:53,610 They were like, it's fine. I have to say, kudos to you 373 00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:57,370 because that was a big decision and it's one of the first big 374 00:18:57,370 --> 00:19:00,530 decisions that you had to make. Without Oliver, it could have 375 00:19:00,610 --> 00:19:03,490 gone either way. Like, that's a beer, right? 376 00:19:03,650 --> 00:19:07,330 And not having your partner to bounce the idea off of you can 377 00:19:07,330 --> 00:19:09,970 stay frozen. I mean, that took a lot of 378 00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:13,450 strength at a time in your life when you probably didn't feel 379 00:19:13,450 --> 00:19:16,790 like you had any strength. It's what's funny is I review 380 00:19:16,790 --> 00:19:19,470 what you said earlier you were talking about, I think you you 381 00:19:19,470 --> 00:19:23,350 had a lot of friends switching schools, though, nobody there. 382 00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:24,830 And this is what he loved about it. 383 00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:26,790 This is what he wrote about in the essay. 384 00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:30,150 I was like, you were right. Nobody knew either one of us. 385 00:19:30,190 --> 00:19:32,870 No one knew what happened to us. They assumed I was divorced. 386 00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:35,030 Yeah, longest time, no one knew, right? 387 00:19:35,030 --> 00:19:36,550 They knew, but I didn't. Want that? 388 00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:39,310 I didn't want people to assume I was divorced. 389 00:19:39,310 --> 00:19:41,430 But I didn't want to talk about it either, so. 390 00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:43,550 I was Tourette's, so I sold everything. 391 00:19:43,790 --> 00:19:46,350 Sometimes it's easier to just let people make their 392 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:48,750 assumptions and then if you get closer with people, then you 393 00:19:48,750 --> 00:19:53,150 reveal the truth and. Yeah, I reveal my truth to the 394 00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:56,250 gas station attendant. Everyone though like. 395 00:19:56,290 --> 00:19:57,730 Especially you've got that shirt. 396 00:19:57,730 --> 00:20:02,370 Not divorced. Do you want to share some of 397 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:06,290 what what saved you And you said it was God, therapy, family, 398 00:20:06,290 --> 00:20:07,970 friends or was it friends, family. 399 00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:11,650 I don't know. That was brighter. 400 00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:14,910 It was right. Or I could truly say it was he 401 00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:17,190 was the. I don't know, he's such a 402 00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:19,670 positive person. Someone said that about the 403 00:20:19,670 --> 00:20:21,070 interview. They closed out the interview. 404 00:20:21,070 --> 00:20:23,630 And I'm saying a lot about the college stuff because that's a 405 00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:26,630 big deal. This is a big life changing 406 00:20:26,790 --> 00:20:28,550 thing that happens to you and your family. 407 00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:30,710 They're going to leave. I'm going to be an empty nester, 408 00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:34,750 but I'm excited for his future. What were we asking? 409 00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:38,350 This is what happens when you start talking about it happens 410 00:20:38,350 --> 00:20:39,950 to me. Well, you said he's positive. 411 00:20:39,950 --> 00:20:41,750 He's a positive person. Thank you. 412 00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:45,790 Because talking about traumatic things, I can't remember a lot 413 00:20:45,790 --> 00:20:48,710 of stuff. It's yeah, I don't want to, but 414 00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:52,030 he is a positive person. He doesn't get down much and if 415 00:20:52,030 --> 00:20:55,270 I'll say, God, they were so rude, he'll say maybe they had a 416 00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:57,910 bad day, Mom. And so it makes me remember I'm 417 00:20:57,910 --> 00:21:01,470 like, he has a lot of grace for people, which I admire in a 418 00:21:01,470 --> 00:21:04,030 person. So he's not perfect. 419 00:21:04,030 --> 00:21:06,630 He still sleeps too long and still messy. 420 00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:10,110 And you know, he can talk back to me sometimes and thinks he 421 00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:13,750 knows more, but for the most part he's been the bright light 422 00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:15,830 and all of it. So I think that's the surviving 423 00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:20,390 technique. Exercising is a thing, meeting 424 00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:22,910 all of you. Everything got a lot better when 425 00:21:22,910 --> 00:21:26,070 I had someone who could relate to my story, right? 426 00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:29,070 Because everybody would put me with the divorces. 427 00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:30,790 And I'm not saying I want to be clear. 428 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:35,320 Their world is not easy either. It's just different. 429 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,600 And I needed someone that like some divorces don't get a break 430 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,840 either. But at the time I was thinking, 431 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,280 Oh my God, I'm never going to have a break again. 432 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,920 I'm sure that had to cross your minds. 433 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,480 I was. Thinking, yeah, I was kind of 434 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,880 jealous. Like you get every other weekend 435 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,160 off. And yet, I didn't want my kid to 436 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,200 go anywhere, either. I had a weird like because I 437 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,640 know you and I've talked about Kira, that we we like the 438 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,960 escapist thing. But I couldn't escape because I 439 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,160 wanted him to come with me, not because I'd love to say it's 440 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,640 because I'm the best mommy in the world. 441 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,240 But it was really out of fear. If something happens to him, I'm 442 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,800 not going to be okay. He's all I got left. 443 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,160 So I dragged him everywhere and he now knows where that comes 444 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,360 from. And we've it's I love him being 445 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:24,800 this age because we can talk about, like, now you know, when 446 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,600 he was young, he probably thought, what the heck is wrong 447 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,280 with my mother? She's crazy. 448 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,520 Now he still thinks I'm crazy, but at least he knows why crazy. 449 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,040 We're gonna have an adult conversation. 450 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,040 Yes. And now he understands that. 451 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,800 When I was losing it, he said an ugly word one time in the back 452 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,200 seat of the car. And I said, writer, where did 453 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,680 you hear that? Because I got it from you, Mama. 454 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,640 And I was like, Oh my God. Well, we've all been. 455 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,920 There, down the river, but Oh well. 456 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,280 Would you say, because I know that for people that are just 457 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,070 starting this grief journey? You worry about what's going to 458 00:22:58,070 --> 00:23:02,630 happen to your kids, Absolutely. And I always say, as crazy as it 459 00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:06,750 sounds, they're going to be OK if you are grieving in a healthy 460 00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:10,270 way too, would you say? He's doing great. 461 00:23:10,510 --> 00:23:12,670 Yeah. I have to say he's a positive, 462 00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:15,030 happy. He's driven. 463 00:23:15,070 --> 00:23:17,790 That's good. He's just, he's very introverted 464 00:23:17,790 --> 00:23:20,830 like his dad, but he's chatty. He says he's the chatty 465 00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:23,990 introvert, but I think he's doing well because. 466 00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:26,390 Because of you. Well, yeah. 467 00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:29,430 I mean, I think there's some of it in spite of me. 468 00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:32,390 I think he's doing well because it's his own personality. 469 00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:34,830 And I think some of it's because I did stay close. 470 00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:38,990 But you also. Communicated with him along the 471 00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:41,110 way and I think that's important. 472 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,640 Don't hide your grief from the kids. 473 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,840 They know it's happening. They feel it. 474 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,800 It's giving them that. Makes the mission to grieve. 475 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:51,880 To. Yeah, right. 476 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,000 I think definitely we would. I learned from Oliver's family, 477 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,680 really how to manage this better than even what I got in therapy. 478 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,240 His mother died when he was 10 and his sister was 6, the same 479 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,240 age as writer, and they never discussed it. 480 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,880 The kids didn't go to the funeral. 481 00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:12,530 So I was like, what is that? No. 482 00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:16,250 And both my parents are counselors, so and and oddly 483 00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:18,210 enough they didn't handle all this very well because it's 484 00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:21,010 their daughter. But I did learn that the best 485 00:24:21,010 --> 00:24:23,370 way is to show them that you can grieve and recover. 486 00:24:23,370 --> 00:24:26,450 Grieve and recover, that I'm not going to stay down. 487 00:24:26,450 --> 00:24:28,930 I'm having a down day. And I would say that even when 488 00:24:28,930 --> 00:24:32,050 he was only 6, I'd say I'm having a bad day or a bad 489 00:24:32,050 --> 00:24:36,000 moment. I'll be OK And he and I gave him 490 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,080 permission to cry and I think that's really important that I 491 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,240 know from me. If I can get it out, I feel a 492 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,400 lot better. Well, I'm glad you brought it 493 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,160 here. I think it's going to help a lot 494 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,080 of people. Lacey, thank you. 495 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,000 I know this was a difficult day. We love you and we love you. 496 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,160 And you did all. You guys.