1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,960 This is Holly. Welcome back to another episode 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,760 of Every Widow Thing. Listeners have asked how our 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,080 kids are doing and how they've dealt with their grief, so we 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,760 decided to have the kids take over the podcast. 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,400 We thought the kids would open up a little more without us in 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,720 the room. So we have a special guest here 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,000 today. I'd like to introduce my dear 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,760 friend Sally Rogers. Sally's the perfect moderator 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,000 for this episode. She's a writer, communications 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,080 consultant, and former journalist. 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,760 She also lost her dad unexpectedly at the age of four 12 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,840 years old. This is every widow thing. 13 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,960 I'm Sally Rogers. I am thrilled to be here today, 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,360 but let's introduce ourselves. Just, you know, your age, where 15 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,880 you're going to college. Oh, and probably also where I'm 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,000 on this. Yeah, pick out Mom. 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,680 I guess I can start, yeah. I'm Acelin. 18 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,280 I am Kira's oldest daughter and I'm 20 and I go to the 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,920 University of Texas at Austin. Hi, I'm Thomas. 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,120 I'm Kira's only son. I'm 18 and I go to the 21 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,360 University of Virginia in Charlottesville. 22 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,440 I'm brighter. I'm 19 and I go to Northeastern 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,600 University in Boston. I hate your mom. 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:20,160 Help. Yeah, of course. 25 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,520 The idea that I brought up Lacey. 26 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,800 I'm Zach. I'm 18, I'm a senior at Saint 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,360 Michael's Academy and I'm Holly's youngest son. 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,000 I'm Gabe. I'm Holly's oldest son. 29 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,120 I'm 21 and I'm at Texas Christian University. 30 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,560 So I'm going to start with an obvious thing, which is it's 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,480 kind of awkward. You guys are all here today and 32 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,480 they're like, hey, you remember so and so and you remember and 33 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,360 you're like not really, you know, I mean, I know you guys 34 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,520 don't see each other a lot, but when you do see each other like 35 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,800 today, is there anything that elicits or any? 36 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,800 Is there a familiarity? Is there any kind of 37 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,600 comfortability or is it just weird you're just meeting 38 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,880 strangers for the first time or the second time? 39 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,080 I don't think it's like strangers, because we've all met 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:12,920 each other before for the most part. 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,600 And I like I've spent time with Ryder, especially because our 42 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,000 moms are close. But it's not totally strange. 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,920 It's like I still You're right. I do feel some sort of 44 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:22,760 familiarity. And kind of a connection to 45 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,480 these guys. Do you feel that when you meet 46 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,440 other kids that have gone through what you have gone 47 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,520 through in terms of losing a parent? 48 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,840 Do you feel like instant connection with them and talk to 49 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,360 me about that? Well, I've had a few people 50 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,560 approach me knowing, like, what I went through and asking me 51 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,320 questions. And it's interesting because as 52 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,240 soon as you know that someone's been through the same 53 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,760 experience, you get like a new perspective on them. 54 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,760 Like even if you don't know them super well before now it's like 55 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,480 you almost feel like you know them better, which is 56 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,280 interesting. Anyone else? 57 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,040 I mean, honestly, not really. To some degree, yes. 58 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,920 But I honestly just don't really think of it as much as a huge 59 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:08,360 part of my life. So I guess I keep it like a safe 60 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,280 distance away so most people don't even know it about me and 61 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:14,520 they're surprised to learn it. Like for example, like my 62 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,000 roommates and swimmates did not know this until like maybe like 63 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,760 two months later. So it's not something I usually 64 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,240 talk about. And how old were you when your 65 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,320 father died? 6 So it's it's I don't remember 66 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,400 it that much, and it's not a huge impact on my life in that 67 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,440 kind of sense. Yeah, you're like me. 68 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,360 It was. And it wasn't because I was so 69 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,520 young. Yeah, Yeah, you remember it, but 70 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,160 it didn't really mean anything. Whereas you guys were older. 71 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,120 How old were you when your father died? 72 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,200 I was 11. And I do think it was 73 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,640 interesting because I it was over the summer and then I went 74 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,920 back to school and was navigating like, who knows and 75 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,760 who doesn't. And like, you know, I had kids 76 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,200 ask about my dad or something, like not really knowing that 77 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,320 that happened. And like, I think it's 78 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,040 interesting when it happens when you're younger that like a lot 79 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 of the people that I know now, now that I'm in college, people 80 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,880 that I met in high school, nobody's ever met him. 81 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,280 And a lot of people who I meet wouldn't know that about me. 82 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,640 So it's an interesting step to take when you think about, you 83 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,480 know, when do I tell people is an important. 84 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,160 Deal. You don't lead with that. 85 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:17,959 It makes people feel very uncomfortable. 86 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:21,519 Yeah, I know. Which is where I developed my 87 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:24,000 dark sense of humor because I could tell it made people 88 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,960 uncomfortable. And so I like, well, I'll just 89 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,960 make the joke first. I'll do something to break the 90 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,320 ice because it is super like, I know this, you don't want to 91 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,320 hear this, but my dad died. And you know, they're like, oh, 92 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,000 and because what? You know, what do people do? 93 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,560 Oh my God. You can't really respond. 94 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,840 There's not, yeah. There's nothing really to say. 95 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,320 I'm sorry. Fact. 96 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,120 What are some of your responses in that situation? 97 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,680 How do you deal with that sort of instant? 98 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,480 I don't want to say pity, but that instant, like, oh God, I'm 99 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,280 so sorry. What's your I usually? 100 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:55,080 Just tell them I was really young or like I'll be like it 101 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,160 was a while ago. I don't really. 102 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,960 Just to to not be like, oh, you know, I'm, I mean, I like to get 103 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,200 into it later in the podcast. Grief is like a long process. 104 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,000 But, you know, like if it's been, it's been a while, like 105 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,960 it's different than if it just happened. 106 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,600 So I'm like, yeah, it was a while ago, you know, and he was 107 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,720 great. And it was this and you know, my 108 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,200 family's OK. And like, I think that kind of 109 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,160 makes people feel better. Right. 110 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,360 So you find yourself in the position of trying to make other 111 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,000 people feel better? Definitely. 112 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:28,840 Definitely. Do I get less? 113 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,120 Awkward. Does that resonate with you 114 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,600 guys? I don't know. 115 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,640 Yeah, I'm kind of just like, eh, like. 116 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,120 I try to. Especially if someone new is 117 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,840 asking me, I'm like, they didn't know him, so I'm like, I don't 118 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:43,200 need to fill in and just like, drop it, yeah. 119 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,760 I try to not just make like a big deal about it because it 120 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,600 really isn't that big of a deal. When people like find that out, 121 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,480 I don't know. It's a bigger deal for like 122 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,160 other people than this for us. And I know for me, I didn't want 123 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,800 that to be my identity, like the kid in school who blah, blah, 124 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,680 blah. You know, it's like, well, 125 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,640 there's a lot more about me than that. 126 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,240 Talk to me about, like, right after your dad's died, like 127 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,520 those months after, what were your lives like? 128 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,840 What do you remember about those that time? 129 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,440 I don't. Because you were six. 130 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,600 I was six. I could not tell you practically 131 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,200 anything that had happened after that. 132 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,960 All I remember was switching schools when in like 6 months. 133 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:36,000 So and then basically that's it. That's kind of all I remember. 134 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,360 There's nothing. It's just like a giant gap right 135 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,080 there. When you guys mother was in the 136 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,240 hospital, yeah. And when you had other, who else 137 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,840 was in the hospital? Our sister. 138 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:47,440 Your sister. So that was. 139 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,400 What was that time like for your family? 140 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,640 Or have you blocked it out? Well, we kind of talk a lot 141 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,960 about how it felt like 2 days and it really wasn't like it was 142 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,760 a long period of time. But we both kind of say it's 143 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,680 like a blur. But our grandparents were with 144 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,440 us, like my mom's parents, and we've gotten very close to them 145 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,200 kind of through that process. So I think that was almost a 146 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,320 blessing in disguise because they come visit us a lot now and 147 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,000 they were mostly there. And we also had a lot of support 148 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,000 from friends and family. Like some of the stuff that I 149 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,000 remember was that our neighbors or like people that I went to 150 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,240 school with were making dinners and bringing them to the house. 151 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,120 I got a lot of like really cute, like decorative cards from girls 152 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,680 in my grade and things like that. 153 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,320 So that's kind of all I remember that was happening right after. 154 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,560 And I also think we did, we did go on vacation like really 155 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,280 randomly where we went to see like our good family. 156 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,080 Maybe it's like a distraction a couple of months after. 157 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,040 Yeah. Who in Martha's Vineyard, who 158 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,000 had a house over there? And we did that every summer. 159 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,120 So I think it was like a sense of normalcy. 160 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,680 But I remember we were fighting a lot. 161 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,920 And like me and him and I remember we, we were just kind 162 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,640 of butting heads. And like now I'm like, oh, well, 163 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,360 that's probably because we were confused. 164 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,400 But at the time I was like, he's so infuriating. 165 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,520 I mean, I just thought it was sibling fighting, but now I'm 166 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,360 like there was probably more to that. 167 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,720 A little fear, anger, sadness. It definitely could have 168 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,120 continued on to like maybe a few years after, because we did 169 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,040 always have some disputes and a lot of that was like normal 170 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,120 sibling rivalry. But I think some of it could 171 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,320 have been either anger or frustration that we were 172 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,040 directing in other directions. Maybe like not very beneficially 173 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,240 towards our family. But like Iselin said, I don't 174 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,320 have a good timeline of really what it was. 175 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,200 But I do have those moments Like I remember like the day of and 176 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,559 everything that happened. And then you know, going to 177 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,679 hospitals and then maybe like a few more days, but nothing 178 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,080 really consistent. It's almost like flash memories, 179 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:42,880 kind of. I think that's how the brain 180 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,920 works with that sort of sense. I don't know. 181 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,800 Coping too, I think. What about you guys? 182 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,280 I'm kind of the same way. Feel like. 183 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,840 I feel like the summer after was like trying to be more normal. 184 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,520 And like, I don't really remember. 185 00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:00,320 Like the two months. Yeah, because March, like March 186 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,280 to May, I don't remember a whole lot. 187 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,280 Remember like skipping school and getting pissed at my 188 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,960 teachers and they wouldn't like, let me skip my school? 189 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:15,040 Yeah, but it's sort of flashes for you 2 that just memories 190 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,480 this and pieces, Yeah. What about you? 191 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,280 Well, I had like surgery on my back. 192 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,400 So because it was like right after the car wreck. 193 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,840 And so I just remember being in my house, just not being able to 194 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,080 do anything. And like, I mean, you can't 195 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,600 really do anything with the broken back. 196 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,160 So I just remember it's just kind of just flashbacks and just 197 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,720 being sad, not being able to do anything because I wanted to 198 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,960 like get back out and like be able to do what I'd was doing 199 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,720 before I had back surgery, so. Just say you remember the 200 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,960 sadness that. Yeah, I mean a bit, yeah. 201 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,960 And yeah, then all the physical pain you were into, yeah, it was 202 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,600 a lot. In that time, what do you 203 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:08,440 remember talking to people about people asking you questions? 204 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,680 I think you've all been in therapy, am I right? 205 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,840 I've been in counseling or therapy of some sort. 206 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,280 Do you remember the very beginning of that process, what 207 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,080 that was like? Yeah, I didn't want to talk to 208 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,840 my therapist at all. I would go and we would play 209 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,560 Yahtzee and she was very patient with me. 210 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,760 And I actually, I think I went and saw her when I was 12 and we 211 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,520 still, I still see her to this day. 212 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,040 And I mean, we talk about that stuff periodically, but I've 213 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,120 definitely, like, grown in my ability to be open with that. 214 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,120 And I remember in the beginning, like, I think what I was going 215 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,040 to kind of say, going off of what he said was like a lot of 216 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,480 the sadness is grieving like normalcy almost. 217 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,920 Like, why can't I go out and do the things I used to do? 218 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,360 Like everything is different. At least for me. 219 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:59,080 That was why it was so intense. And so, like, when, you know, my 220 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,520 life started to come back together, then I was like, OK, 221 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,120 you know, now this is a new normal, but let's talk about why 222 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,960 it's new, if that makes sense. And that was kind of like where 223 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,120 my journey with therapy progressed into like being more 224 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,720 open and also being more open with people about talking about 225 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,640 that. Because in the beginning, I was 226 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,480 just kind of hoping that people found out from somebody else. 227 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,320 I didn't really want to like directly address it with 228 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:24,440 anybody. Right. 229 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,240 What about you guys? I'm in. 230 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,480 Notoriously. Not in favor. 231 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,040 Yeah, and in favor of therapy and sharing their feelings. 232 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,440 But I know that all your mothers were were really. 233 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,160 Emphasize that. Talk to me about that. 234 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,160 I don't really remember getting a therapy right after, but I 235 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,160 remember a few years later at my new school, which was Magellan I 236 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,800 think like third grade, 4th grade, I started going there. 237 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,120 There's clearly like some stuff I fully hadn't worked through, 238 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,240 but the entire time it was with the therapist, I did basically 239 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,560 the same thing. I just played board games. 240 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,920 I did not talk and I think it was like 8 sessions in. 241 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,920 I'm like, you know what? I actually don't think I need 242 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,640 this. I was probably just angry about 243 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,440 something else. It's an easy thing to blame. 244 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,520 I remember I got mad at something else and blamed like 245 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,680 my father and stuff like that. And now looking back, I don't 246 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:18,640 know if it if it was really that was the issue. 247 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,240 But I feel like as a kid, like sometimes you just like blame 248 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,160 other things because of what had happened to you. 249 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,360 And I started to learn that that's not really the way you 250 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,880 should go about things. Because it's an easy scapegoat. 251 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,760 Exactly, yeah. What about you? 252 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,640 I agree with Ryder and the fact that when I was younger trying 253 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,840 to handle it, there was a lot of like blaming happening and a lot 254 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,320 of happened like in my own head. And I feel like the issue with 255 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,560 that is with a scenario of like a death of a loved one, there's 256 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:47,680 not really someone to blame in a sense. 257 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,240 I mean, it's different every scenario, but a lot of the times 258 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:53,120 it just happens and there's nothing to do about it. 259 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,200 You can't really make it better and like only time will help you 260 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:57,800 personally get through it and like your family. 261 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,360 So when you're upset about something but don't really have 262 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,720 a reason for it, even though there's a reason, but there's 263 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,840 like no one to blame. Like there's no cause for that 264 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,120 reason. You can just get frustrated and 265 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,440 just get mad at other things. Like I definitely had some like 266 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,440 maybe anger issues growing up past that because it was like a 267 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,320 lot of built up frustration that I didn't really know what to do 268 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:19,920 with. But yeah, same thing for 269 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,440 therapy. I played a lot of like games, 270 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,640 but it would more be like, I do remember it was kind of a 271 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,040 relationship where it was like a trade off where he was like, all 272 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,560 right, we can play around and I can give you a snack, but then 273 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,680 you need to say something about like how you're feeling. 274 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:34,960 And like that was OK for me, but I didn't do it for too long. 275 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,400 And today, is anyone in therapy where you you're still coming, 276 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,320 but do you guys still go? No. 277 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,160 I was put in for like a month and never wanted to open up to a 278 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,760 random stranger and stop going. Would you support that decision 279 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,400 now about? Yeah, yeah, that feels good. 280 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,440 I'm not going to talk to someone I. 281 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,560 Kind of agree with him now that he says it, but I feel like back 282 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,760 when I was in therapy, like right after everything happened, 283 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,840 I was just kind of like being feel like I had to talk or else 284 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,640 I'd just be like a waste of time, so. 285 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:08,800 Or you wouldn't get a piece of candy. 286 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,640 I mean, I definitely. I feel like it helped overall, 287 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,440 but I didn't really like it at the time. 288 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:20,000 Like I stopped and then made the choice to go back because like I 289 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,920 was dealing with other like areas of anxiety and like 290 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,120 friendship issues and I think some people it's hard for them 291 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,480 to want to open up to a stranger. 292 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,080 But for me, I like it because I really like having an unbiased 293 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,440 opinion and I really like just being able to say however I 294 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,040 feel. And there's like no judgement. 295 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,960 And like it was a good outlet for me whenever I would kind of, 296 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,520 you know, be frustrated like about a situation and wasn't 297 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,480 really feeling because sometimes, like, your friends 298 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,160 don't understand. I mean, most of the times, like 299 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,200 if your friends haven't gone through something like this, 300 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,880 then they won't get some of those frustrations. 301 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,600 So I think it's good to go somewhere that they know that 302 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,440 about you and that's unspoken and it doesn't have to be about 303 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,120 that. But if you bring it up, they're 304 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,600 like, oh, maybe it could have something to do with this, And 305 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,200 I'll be like, oh, you might be right. 306 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,800 And I honestly feel like she's really helped me, like see a lot 307 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,320 of those things where I feel like I was directing frustration 308 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,760 about something in the wrong direction when it was more about 309 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,400 maybe my trauma or something like that. 310 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,280 I find myself and maybe you guys can relate. 311 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,800 I it's easy for me to to to talk to people who've gone through 312 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,840 something because I've been through it. 313 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,200 You know how you've gone through loss at an early age and it was 314 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,200 easy for me to talk to people and still is about what they're 315 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,000 going through and that's a that's a real gift if you have 316 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,720 that. It's difficult to tell someone 317 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,120 about what they're going through if you don't have a similar 318 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,000 perspective. And that's just a lot of issues. 319 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,560 When it comes to therapy in general sometimes is that some 320 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,160 people just don't want to like it's hard to relate to somebody 321 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,160 else who has not, and you have to have someone who can really 322 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,440 establish that connection with you. 323 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,120 And you also have to be willing to go to therapy. 324 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,360 I feel like if you don't like, feels like you're kind of forced 325 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,000 to talk. You can't really do much like 326 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,080 that was me in 4th grade. I just didn't really want to. 327 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,760 I was just blaming it for other reasons. 328 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,800 But then later on I was willing to come back. 329 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,040 I think I started in 10th grade and then I I really was willing 330 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,040 to like put in the work and I wanted to do it. 331 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,960 It wasn't that I felt forced to. That's important, right? 332 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,200 If you're forced to do anything, you don't want it, really want 333 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,000 to do it most of the time. What about you guys? 334 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,000 Anything behind of that? Well, I like went back to 335 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,200 therapy, like maybe start of high school and I felt like I 336 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,480 was forced to do it and I just didn't like it at all. 337 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,640 So how long did it stop? Maybe like a month or two. 338 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,480 I want to go back to your dad's. I knew Toby really well. 339 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,000 We were good friends, so I know their story. 340 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,760 But I do want to hear about talk to me about your dad's. 341 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,280 What do you remember? You were six. 342 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:51,920 I know. Do you? 343 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,760 Do you remember anything? I remember a lot of who he was. 344 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,240 Not exactly. My interactions with him always, 345 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,520 I guess, like, it was more the actions that he did than the 346 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,480 words that he spoke, like his personality and things. 347 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,960 I don't really remember a lot of that, but I remember like what 348 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,200 we did as kids. We did a lot of stuff with 349 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,400 technology and like a lot of cool stuff. 350 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,359 I still have pictures of this, but we use like a bike light and 351 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,920 one of those cameras that I don't know how it works, but 352 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,119 you're able to, like, move light around and it's able to capture 353 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,640 each frame and then you can make pictures. 354 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,839 So we, like, wrote numbers using the bike light. 355 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:27,440 And I always said that was like really cool. 356 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,720 A lot of like games, like coloring games, stuff like that. 357 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,520 He'd always let me go on the computer and do stuff like that. 358 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,200 And that was always really fun. He'd read to me a lot. 359 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,920 Some like really cool books. We'd just go by the Public 360 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,880 Library and get some books and we'd read those. 361 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,560 And yeah, those kind of things. Those. 362 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,160 Are great memories. Yeah, the problem is I just 363 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,160 don't remember the remember him as a person specifically, but 12 364 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,160 years is a long time so. It is. 365 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,760 And when you're six, you don't know what to hold on to. 366 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,480 You're holding on to light and computers and colors. 367 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,240 Yeah, seriously, You're not like, I got to remember this 368 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,760 conversation, 'cause it's, you know, you're just you're too 369 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,320 young. I wanted to spend more time in 370 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,600 video games that I didn't want to be like actually interactive. 371 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:06,840 With kids? Exactly. 372 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,560 What about you? I think that like Ryder said, 373 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,280 like a lot of the stuff that you know about your dad, if they 374 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,680 pass away when they're young, is that like it's stuff other 375 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,040 people tell you? My parents both have like a 376 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,480 really good, like friendship network and they are really good 377 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,880 at making relationships. And so I remember so many people 378 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,040 just telling me, like things they loved about him, which I 379 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,280 thought was really awesome because I feel like it helps me 380 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,520 know more about him. Because, you know, when they, 381 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,080 when they die, when you're young, you don't know a lot. 382 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,600 I mean, now I'm like an adult. And I feel like there were 383 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,080 things my dad probably wouldn't have told me at 11, that he 384 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,120 probably would tell me now that I kind of, you know, I'm in the 385 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,800 same position with my mom in some sense. 386 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,080 But from what everybody says, and from what I remember, he was 387 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:53,960 always very smart and he was in marketing and in business. 388 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,160 And that's what me and Thomas both study. 389 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,040 And I think that that's always like really cool to see. 390 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,480 Like, I feel like I mostly just see a lot of his personality 391 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,800 traits in me and my siblings. People will tell me things about 392 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,760 him and then I'll be like, oh, that kind of sounds like me. 393 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,080 He was always very organized. That's me. 394 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,000 He was always very like into like math and computers. 395 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,720 That's Thomas, you know, things like that. 396 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,360 So I think that's kind of like a cool way to remember them, but 397 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,600 sort of a same the same thing, like I'll remember memories, but 398 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,400 it's hard to remember like their personality. 399 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,880 Although I will say since I was 11 and my siblings were younger, 400 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,600 I definitely remember the most because I was a little bit 401 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,440 older. I think everyone has like their 402 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,480 own personal memory, which I like. 403 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,680 Everyone has their own image, which is cool. 404 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,320 My was, yeah, my memory is somewhat similar to writers and 405 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,600 that like me and my dad played video games and and that sort of 406 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,520 thing, but. Soccer. 407 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,120 Yeah, one thing I like to do is hold on to the things that like 408 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,960 I remember of him or that we used to do together, like writer 409 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,840 saying he remembers the things he did with his dads. 410 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,880 I've continued doing those like up until currently. 411 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,320 Which has been good for me, you know, it makes me feel somewhat 412 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,240 like connected. And then I also have like a 413 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,480 friend of mine who also lost his father does a certain sport for 414 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,920 the same reason. We're like his dad got him into 415 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,880 it and he wants to like stay connected in some way and get 416 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,600 get better at it or play it more for himself. 417 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,840 And then also just as like a commemoration to his dad. 418 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,680 But yeah, I was young, I was 9 when he, he passed. 419 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,160 So I don't really, I didn't hold on to a lot of like, his 420 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,600 personality. And I found myself kind of 421 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,760 forgetting like what he sounded like and how he acted like at 422 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,640 some point. But I do have certain memories 423 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,360 that can kind of help me like put that together, dinners we 424 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:42,640 had or like a joke he made or you know, something funny he 425 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,800 did. So that's what I've been holding 426 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,920 on to. What about you two, Gabe? 427 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,080 I mean, I definitely remember more because I was older, but 428 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,080 I'd say certain things are harder to remember, like in the 429 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,400 past, like seven years, like as time goes on. 430 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,360 But I remember I have a lot of like specific memories, like him 431 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:08,240 going to our baseball games and like going to his office and 432 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,200 watching the work and stuff like that. 433 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,240 Your dad was a graphic designer. He had his own business, worked 434 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,720 downtown. He was a cyclist, loved sports. 435 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,200 I'm sure you guys are. Do you? 436 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,720 Do you see him and you in yourselves? 437 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:30,160 Think I'm We're told that more than we think we are, but yeah. 438 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,240 Well, physically you look like your father kind of aware. 439 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,920 I get it a lot because I look almost exactly like my father. 440 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,000 So who I never knew. And my personality is just like 441 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,800 my father and I did not know my father, So that's really weird. 442 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,680 I'm like, how did I end up with this personality? 443 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,280 And I look like him. What does that mean when people 444 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,320 say that to you? Like you look like your dad or 445 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,560 you act like your dad? Does that special or is it like? 446 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,320 It's just kind of weird. It's like hearing about someone 447 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,040 that you don't know or that just sort of disappeared and like 448 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,000 everyone else knows them but you don't. 449 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,000 And it's kind of weird hearing about that, sort of like, and 450 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,920 I'm just like them. I'm also, he was in computer 451 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,560 science, I'm going to computer science and game design, video 452 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,000 games were like my favorite moments with him. 453 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,000 So it's kind of weird how that all worked out, but it's kind of 454 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,120 weird because it feels like you're because it's my life is 455 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,560 so similar and people always say you look just like him, Oh, 456 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,600 you're doing the same stuff. You're kind of fighting against 457 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,480 like this expectation of guests like your own father. 458 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,320 And it's, I mean it's not like totally there, but it's kind of 459 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,040 weird given that I'm following exactly his footsteps, but I 460 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,480 don't know him directly. And a lot of them always say 461 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,600 he's like some sort of genius or something, but I just never met. 462 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,440 So are you a genius? I don't think so. 463 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,080 We'll decide that afterwards, we'll let you know. 464 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,080 Well, I think, like the weird thing about grief is that people 465 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,400 will only ever tell you like the Super positive things about a 466 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,600 person. Which is interesting because I, 467 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,280 as I get older, I'm like everyone's a very well-rounded 468 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,440 individual in the sense that we've all got layers. 469 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,640 And so it's I, you know, I love hearing all of the amazing 470 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,480 things about my dad. But then it's like, well, I, you 471 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:07,840 know, I only know the good stuff. 472 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,880 And then you think about if he was still here, I would know 473 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,320 everything. Or, you know, and that's kind of 474 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,800 like a weird feeling, just that everyone you know and it's like, 475 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,120 well, what are some of the, some of his like negative qualities 476 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,640 that maybe I have, like am I super stubborn because he was 477 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,680 super stubborn or like things like that, you know? 478 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,880 And sometimes people would say that mostly family like people 479 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,040 you're comfortable with or that who knew him like that. 480 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,200 But I do think, like, it's interesting going back to kind 481 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,000 of like looking more like that parent. 482 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,400 My mom is blonde. People, when they see us, don't 483 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,080 directly assume that we're related because I look very 484 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,840 Italian, like my dad. No, thinks I'm related. 485 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,240 No, they nobody thinks we're related. 486 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,520 Yeah. So it's kind of just 487 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,280 interesting. But then I in more recent years, 488 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,360 I've had friends say, Oh my gosh, you look just like your 489 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,080 mom. And I think that's so 490 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,280 interesting because I'm like, they don't even, they don't even 491 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,720 know what my dad looks like. And if they did, maybe that's 492 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,800 what they they would say, but it's like they they don't even 493 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,600 know. So then they think I look like 494 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,640 my mom and then I kind of see it and I think it's. 495 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,360 But that's like an interesting perspective I never thought of 496 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,840 is that if they don't know what he looks like, they can't say 497 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,720 that. You know, I mean, it's easier 498 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,920 because they're removed and you can get a better perspective. 499 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Like if you don't, if you don't see the same genetics every 500 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,960 single day, like in yourself and your family, yeah, then you can 501 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,400 look at it from a removed perspective and be like, OK, I 502 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,800 see it there. What about you guys? 503 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,480 I'm definitely, I feel like I remember his personality, like 504 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,440 at least the humor part a lot more. 505 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,960 A lot of his humor resonates with me and his creativity. 506 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,320 Like, I don't know. I remember that. 507 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,760 From Yeah, I can see it more as we get older. 508 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,800 Usually when people like tell me that I'm like, like I like it, 509 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,280 but I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm like I see it. 510 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,280 Who's highly crazy? So you're both creative. 511 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,960 Yeah. When your parent dies, it is 512 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,680 the, I think the word is lionization or canonization. 513 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,240 But they become bigger, you know, somehow. 514 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,360 The stories, like they were the greatest person and you they 515 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,840 were the funniest and they were this and that, which was true, 516 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,800 I'm sure. But there was that other part 517 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,560 that you don't really hear about, like what irritated them 518 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,120 or what, You know? For me, I just didn't know any. 519 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,600 I don't even remember his voice. You know, I don't remember 520 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,320 anything. And I'm like, all I hear are 521 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,680 these great stories. I'm like well. 522 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,000 Just the little things that like you wouldn't expect to like say 523 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,920 about, you know, like you said, like it's like this. 524 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,200 It's always the big stories, the big events or like, you know, 525 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,440 how overarchingly of amazing of a person they were. 526 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,200 And then but then you're like, well, what was what? 527 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,720 What did he like to eat all the time? 528 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,960 Or like, right? Or like, did he ever complain 529 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,960 about doing the laundry? Like, I don't know, something 530 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,840 you just want like maybe like a little random thing that like 531 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,840 kind of makes them seem more tangible, if that makes sense. 532 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,960 Well, I think it's really interesting. 533 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,720 You guys were young and then you were older. 534 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,520 How old were you, Gabe? 14. 535 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,360 So your memories are strong and of course you were what, 11? 536 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,720 So your memories are you guys were both 11 when it happened. 537 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,360 So I'm. Only 18, so I mean. 538 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,600 You lived with me like more. Than half my life. 539 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,720 So I got a pretty good memory that was personal and all this. 540 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,480 Well, we're going to switch gears here. 541 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,200 We're going to talk about your mom's for a second, who all seem 542 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,280 amazing, but it could be another one of those. 543 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,280 You know, you only have the good and nothing. 544 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,280 But you know what I mean? I mean, they're your mom's and 545 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,920 I'm a mom. I know we are, We're annoying. 546 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,400 But when you look back, what do you appreciate about your mom's 547 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,960 during that time? Afterward, and I know it's hard 548 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,960 for you, but even maybe the three even up to today, what do 549 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,200 you appreciate about appreciate about your mother's and their 550 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,960 roles and helping you cope? She's done practically 551 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,360 everything, like she any sports events, anything for school, 552 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,360 she'd do it all. Even when she's not doing well 553 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,880 herself or having to struggle with, even like when he passed 554 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,160 away. I mean, I can remember like she 555 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,160 practically had to do everything to pick up all the pieces and 556 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,920 she just kept going, even if she clearly was not doing well 557 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,400 herself. So I I'm always grateful the 558 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,640 fact that she sort of dropped everything. 559 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,200 She actually even had a movie idea that was going to be 560 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,360 produced and everything, but she decided that I was more 561 00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:22,240 important and she stopped the whole movie thing and decided to 562 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,280 spend all the time with me, which is crazy. 563 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,320 I'm. Not. 564 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,720 Crazy. No, I know. 565 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,120 I'm just saying. Babies, we. 566 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,560 Love y'all. No, I'm just saying it's like, 567 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,880 it's amazing, like sort of giving up all these like huge 568 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,560 dreams, but knowing that you have to stick by your family. 569 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,280 So I will always hold that in huge importance. 570 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,720 Yeah, I think it's interesting because being a mom is no joke. 571 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,440 Being a mom to multiple kids is no joke. 572 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,760 And when you don't choose to do it on your own and when you 573 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,320 weren't expecting to do it on your own, that's like a whole 574 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,120 new layer. So I really appreciate that 575 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,840 that, like kind of writer said they just, they just pick up the 576 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,320 pieces and keep our shit together, basically. 577 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,800 That's kind of all that my mom has done. 578 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,880 But like, she made our lives normal after, even when her life 579 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,080 wasn't normal. And I think that that's the 580 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,800 power of a mom is putting aside your own needs or your own 581 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,720 struggles to like be there for your kids. 582 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,360 And it's a very unique situation. 583 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,160 But she did a really good job. Yeah, I'd say the same thing. 584 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,240 I mean, I love my mom. And I think one of the best 585 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,920 things she's done is I've see, I've witnessed or, you know, 586 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,080 heard of people kind of maybe going off the rails after a 587 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,200 traumatic event or some sort of loss of a family member. 588 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,040 And I think that very could easily, you know, happen to me. 589 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,400 I was younger. So like, yeah, I was raised well 590 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,280 by my mom and my dad for the first nine years. 591 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,560 And then. But I think that these next nine 592 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,280 were like the most important years of my life, solely because 593 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,560 the way that my mom, like, cared for me and my sisters and the 594 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,120 way that she taught me to, you know, treat others and behave 595 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,440 like as a person, kind of kept me grounded. 596 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,920 And she was basically, you know, like reshaping these three 597 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,840 children and holding this family together while also like 598 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,760 reshaping herself and healing after the accident. 599 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,640 And you know, it definitely was not easy for her, and it still 600 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,640 isn't easy, but she's at like a really great place right now and 601 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,000 I'm really happy for her. Gabe. 602 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,680 I mean, I agree with what all y'all are saying, but I think 603 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,600 the whole situation made her obviously stronger. 604 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,440 But like, I think it can bring out good qualities too, like 605 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,160 you're more independent, you're more adventurous, trying new 606 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,840 things, all that. You see that in your in Holly? 607 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,560 Yeah, I see it too. That's it is remarkable what has 608 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,000 happened in these years. What's her life? 609 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,640 What about? What do you think? 610 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,360 I mean, when you think about it, like, not only is she having to, 611 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,440 like take both roles as a parent, but like, her situation 612 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,160 is like just as bad, if not worse. 613 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,200 And like, like we lost our dad, but like, she lost her husband. 614 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,120 On top of that, she's having to take a lot more responsibility 615 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,320 and like, take care of us. So she had that. 616 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,560 And I think I have a unique perspective because I'm the only 617 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,480 daughter here. I know there's more, but I feel 618 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,520 like that was something that my mom really had to focus on. 619 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,000 With Thomas, I mean, I can't speak for you, but I know having 620 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,360 to raise a son without a dad, I mean, God knows I know nothing 621 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,240 about boys. And I feel like that would just 622 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,760 be again, like another layer to that is that you're having to 623 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,920 navigate like raising a young, a young boy, and you have no idea 624 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,520 what that feels like. And so I think that's an 625 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,480 interesting addition to the chaos of dealing with that. 626 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,320 I think she did a good job, I'll say. 627 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,040 I mean, I think I was raised well, but it definitely was a 628 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,480 concern in some senses when I, you know, I have a question that 629 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,000 she couldn't answer or like a perspective that she hadn't 630 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,480 experienced. But I also had a lot of, like, 631 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,880 male figures in my life. I'd still have both my grand, My 632 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,000 grandfather's would have been great, and my mom's parents 633 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,640 stayed with us after, so I definitely had some guidance, 634 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,680 but it never would be the same and like, no man would ever be 635 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,840 my father. So she definitely had to 636 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,400 navigate that. But she did a great job. 637 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,200 My mother. So when my father died, there 638 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,240 were nine kids. Yikes. 639 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,800 And there's Seven of them are boys. 640 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,840 Yikes. And my So this is the 70s. 641 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,840 OK, 70s. I don't, you know, I'm older, so 642 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,040 does. I'm not hiding anything. 643 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,400 This is put it out there. But in the 70s. 644 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,080 And one of the things I can tell you is that with my mother 645 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,520 raising boys back then they just said buck up, you know, suck it 646 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,520 up, you're a boy. You know, there was no crying in 647 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,720 our home after my father died. And if you did, you had to hide 648 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,960 it for for my brothers. It's this masculinity that is 649 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,440 not real masculinity. It's, you know, John Wayne 650 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,440 masculinity, which is don't talk about your feelings. 651 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,560 Don't let anybody see you cry. Do what you're supposed to do. 652 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,000 And we're not going to talk about it. 653 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,160 We're going to like, it never happened. 654 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,400 Okay, your dad didn't die. Don't worry about it. 655 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,240 It's not a problem. So, so wrong. 656 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,520 So anyway, you know, I just think it's remarkable that you 657 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,760 guys have these relationships with your mother's, where I'm 658 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,840 sure can you tell your mom's anything for? 659 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,480 The most part. You don't have to tell her 660 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,920 everything, but would you, if it came to it, Do you think, do you 661 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,240 feel like that with your mom's and like if you were, if you're 662 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,040 sad or talk to me about that when you're having a bad day. 663 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,360 Do you feel comfortable talking to your parent, your mother, 664 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,560 about that? Yeah. 665 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,120 Does she ask you? Yes. 666 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,880 A lot. She talked to me about that. 667 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,320 I just think that my mom at least has mentioned having to be 668 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,560 the role of like 2 parents because with like the good 669 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,080 lessons and the bad lessons, like she's had to do both and 670 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,120 she said she can't like put off something for her husband to do 671 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,720 because he wasn't there. So she's just seems to be like 672 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,720 very interested in like everything we're doing because 673 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,920 she gets all the information because like there's not, you 674 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,040 can't really separate the information like your dad and 675 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,640 your mom. It's like, oh, it's just my mom. 676 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,080 So she, you know and I think my mom likes being in the know also 677 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,800 and you know, she just cares about what we're doing. 678 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,760 So always asking. Can you all agree that your 679 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,520 mother's want to be in the know? Yes, most definitely. 680 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,800 She can recognize my facial expressions and like if I'm 681 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,960 angry or tired or something like that, she can always tell, so 682 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,200 you can't hide anything from her. 683 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,720 So if I'm ever just like slightly off among the one 684 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,800 personality, she'd be like, what's wrong, Mom? 685 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,800 It's it's fine. Oh my gosh, how many times have 686 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,080 you been asked what's wrong in the last Today you can. 687 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,560 Hear more from the kids of every widow Thing and Part 2 coming up 688 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:53,200 next.