This is Holly. Welcome back to another episode
of Every Widow Thing. Listeners have asked how our
kids are doing and how they've dealt with their grief, so we
decided to have the kids take over the podcast.
We thought the kids would open up a little more without us in
the room. So we have a special guest here
today. I'd like to introduce my dear
friend Sally Rogers. Sally's the perfect moderator
for this episode. She's a writer, communications
consultant, and former journalist.
She also lost her dad unexpectedly at the age of four
years old. This is every widow thing.
I'm Sally Rogers. I am thrilled to be here today,
but let's introduce ourselves. Just, you know, your age, where
you're going to college. Oh, and probably also where I'm
on this. Yeah, pick out Mom.
I guess I can start, yeah. I'm Acelin.
I am Kira's oldest daughter and I'm 20 and I go to the
University of Texas at Austin. Hi, I'm Thomas.
I'm Kira's only son. I'm 18 and I go to the
University of Virginia in Charlottesville.
I'm brighter. I'm 19 and I go to Northeastern
University in Boston. I hate your mom.
Help. Yeah, of course.
The idea that I brought up Lacey.
I'm Zach. I'm 18, I'm a senior at Saint
Michael's Academy and I'm Holly's youngest son.
I'm Gabe. I'm Holly's oldest son.
I'm 21 and I'm at Texas Christian University.
So I'm going to start with an obvious thing, which is it's
kind of awkward. You guys are all here today and
they're like, hey, you remember so and so and you remember and
you're like not really, you know, I mean, I know you guys
don't see each other a lot, but when you do see each other like
today, is there anything that elicits or any?
Is there a familiarity? Is there any kind of
comfortability or is it just weird you're just meeting
strangers for the first time or the second time?
I don't think it's like strangers, because we've all met
each other before for the most part.
And I like I've spent time with Ryder, especially because our
moms are close. But it's not totally strange.
It's like I still You're right. I do feel some sort of
familiarity. And kind of a connection to
these guys. Do you feel that when you meet
other kids that have gone through what you have gone
through in terms of losing a parent?
Do you feel like instant connection with them and talk to
me about that? Well, I've had a few people
approach me knowing, like, what I went through and asking me
questions. And it's interesting because as
soon as you know that someone's been through the same
experience, you get like a new perspective on them.
Like even if you don't know them super well before now it's like
you almost feel like you know them better, which is
interesting. Anyone else?
I mean, honestly, not really. To some degree, yes.
But I honestly just don't really think of it as much as a huge
part of my life. So I guess I keep it like a safe
distance away so most people don't even know it about me and
they're surprised to learn it. Like for example, like my
roommates and swimmates did not know this until like maybe like
two months later. So it's not something I usually
talk about. And how old were you when your
father died? 6 So it's it's I don't remember
it that much, and it's not a huge impact on my life in that
kind of sense. Yeah, you're like me.
It was. And it wasn't because I was so
young. Yeah, Yeah, you remember it, but
it didn't really mean anything. Whereas you guys were older.
How old were you when your father died?
I was 11. And I do think it was
interesting because I it was over the summer and then I went
back to school and was navigating like, who knows and
who doesn't. And like, you know, I had kids
ask about my dad or something, like not really knowing that
that happened. And like, I think it's
interesting when it happens when you're younger that like a lot
of the people that I know now, now that I'm in college, people
that I met in high school, nobody's ever met him.
And a lot of people who I meet wouldn't know that about me.
So it's an interesting step to take when you think about, you
know, when do I tell people is an important.
Deal. You don't lead with that.
It makes people feel very uncomfortable.
Yeah, I know. Which is where I developed my
dark sense of humor because I could tell it made people
uncomfortable. And so I like, well, I'll just
make the joke first. I'll do something to break the
ice because it is super like, I know this, you don't want to
hear this, but my dad died. And you know, they're like, oh,
and because what? You know, what do people do?
Oh my God. You can't really respond.
There's not, yeah. There's nothing really to say.
I'm sorry. Fact.
What are some of your responses in that situation?
How do you deal with that sort of instant?
I don't want to say pity, but that instant, like, oh God, I'm
so sorry. What's your I usually?
Just tell them I was really young or like I'll be like it
was a while ago. I don't really.
Just to to not be like, oh, you know, I'm, I mean, I like to get
into it later in the podcast. Grief is like a long process.
But, you know, like if it's been, it's been a while, like
it's different than if it just happened.
So I'm like, yeah, it was a while ago, you know, and he was
great. And it was this and you know, my
family's OK. And like, I think that kind of
makes people feel better. Right.
So you find yourself in the position of trying to make other
people feel better? Definitely.
Do I get less?
Awkward. Does that resonate with you
guys? I don't know.
Yeah, I'm kind of just like, eh, like.
I try to. Especially if someone new is
asking me, I'm like, they didn't know him, so I'm like, I don't
need to fill in and just like, drop it, yeah.
I try to not just make like a big deal about it because it
really isn't that big of a deal. When people like find that out,
I don't know. It's a bigger deal for like
other people than this for us. And I know for me, I didn't want
that to be my identity, like the kid in school who blah, blah,
blah. You know, it's like, well,
there's a lot more about me than that.
Talk to me about, like, right after your dad's died, like
those months after, what were your lives like?
What do you remember about those that time?
I don't. Because you were six.
I was six. I could not tell you practically
anything that had happened after that.
All I remember was switching schools when in like 6 months.
So and then basically that's it. That's kind of all I remember.
There's nothing. It's just like a giant gap right
there. When you guys mother was in the
hospital, yeah. And when you had other, who else
was in the hospital? Our sister.
Your sister. So that was.
What was that time like for your family?
Or have you blocked it out? Well, we kind of talk a lot
about how it felt like 2 days and it really wasn't like it was
a long period of time. But we both kind of say it's
like a blur. But our grandparents were with
us, like my mom's parents, and we've gotten very close to them
kind of through that process. So I think that was almost a
blessing in disguise because they come visit us a lot now and
they were mostly there. And we also had a lot of support
from friends and family. Like some of the stuff that I
remember was that our neighbors or like people that I went to
school with were making dinners and bringing them to the house.
I got a lot of like really cute, like decorative cards from girls
in my grade and things like that.
So that's kind of all I remember that was happening right after.
And I also think we did, we did go on vacation like really
randomly where we went to see like our good family.
Maybe it's like a distraction a couple of months after.
Yeah. Who in Martha's Vineyard, who
had a house over there? And we did that every summer.
So I think it was like a sense of normalcy.
But I remember we were fighting a lot.
And like me and him and I remember we, we were just kind
of butting heads. And like now I'm like, oh, well,
that's probably because we were confused.
But at the time I was like, he's so infuriating.
I mean, I just thought it was sibling fighting, but now I'm
like there was probably more to that.
A little fear, anger, sadness. It definitely could have
continued on to like maybe a few years after, because we did
always have some disputes and a lot of that was like normal
sibling rivalry. But I think some of it could
have been either anger or frustration that we were
directing in other directions. Maybe like not very beneficially
towards our family. But like Iselin said, I don't
have a good timeline of really what it was.
But I do have those moments Like I remember like the day of and
everything that happened. And then you know, going to
hospitals and then maybe like a few more days, but nothing
really consistent. It's almost like flash memories,
kind of. I think that's how the brain
works with that sort of sense. I don't know.
Coping too, I think. What about you guys?
I'm kind of the same way. Feel like.
I feel like the summer after was like trying to be more normal.
And like, I don't really remember.
Like the two months. Yeah, because March, like March
to May, I don't remember a whole lot.
Remember like skipping school and getting pissed at my
teachers and they wouldn't like, let me skip my school?
Yeah, but it's sort of flashes for you 2 that just memories
this and pieces, Yeah. What about you?
Well, I had like surgery on my back.
So because it was like right after the car wreck.
And so I just remember being in my house, just not being able to
do anything. And like, I mean, you can't
really do anything with the broken back.
So I just remember it's just kind of just flashbacks and just
being sad, not being able to do anything because I wanted to
like get back out and like be able to do what I'd was doing
before I had back surgery, so. Just say you remember the
sadness that. Yeah, I mean a bit, yeah.
And yeah, then all the physical pain you were into, yeah, it was
a lot. In that time, what do you
remember talking to people about people asking you questions?
I think you've all been in therapy, am I right?
I've been in counseling or therapy of some sort.
Do you remember the very beginning of that process, what
that was like? Yeah, I didn't want to talk to
my therapist at all. I would go and we would play
Yahtzee and she was very patient with me.
And I actually, I think I went and saw her when I was 12 and we
still, I still see her to this day.
And I mean, we talk about that stuff periodically, but I've
definitely, like, grown in my ability to be open with that.
And I remember in the beginning, like, I think what I was going
to kind of say, going off of what he said was like a lot of
the sadness is grieving like normalcy almost.
Like, why can't I go out and do the things I used to do?
Like everything is different. At least for me.
That was why it was so intense. And so, like, when, you know, my
life started to come back together, then I was like, OK,
you know, now this is a new normal, but let's talk about why
it's new, if that makes sense. And that was kind of like where
my journey with therapy progressed into like being more
open and also being more open with people about talking about
that. Because in the beginning, I was
just kind of hoping that people found out from somebody else.
I didn't really want to like directly address it with
anybody. Right.
What about you guys? I'm in.
Notoriously. Not in favor.
Yeah, and in favor of therapy and sharing their feelings.
But I know that all your mothers were were really.
Emphasize that. Talk to me about that.
I don't really remember getting a therapy right after, but I
remember a few years later at my new school, which was Magellan I
think like third grade, 4th grade, I started going there.
There's clearly like some stuff I fully hadn't worked through,
but the entire time it was with the therapist, I did basically
the same thing. I just played board games.
I did not talk and I think it was like 8 sessions in.
I'm like, you know what? I actually don't think I need
this. I was probably just angry about
something else. It's an easy thing to blame.
I remember I got mad at something else and blamed like
my father and stuff like that. And now looking back, I don't
know if it if it was really that was the issue.
But I feel like as a kid, like sometimes you just like blame
other things because of what had happened to you.
And I started to learn that that's not really the way you
should go about things. Because it's an easy scapegoat.
Exactly, yeah. What about you?
I agree with Ryder and the fact that when I was younger trying
to handle it, there was a lot of like blaming happening and a lot
of happened like in my own head. And I feel like the issue with
that is with a scenario of like a death of a loved one, there's
not really someone to blame in a sense.
I mean, it's different every scenario, but a lot of the times
it just happens and there's nothing to do about it.
You can't really make it better and like only time will help you
personally get through it and like your family.
So when you're upset about something but don't really have
a reason for it, even though there's a reason, but there's
like no one to blame. Like there's no cause for that
reason. You can just get frustrated and
just get mad at other things. Like I definitely had some like
maybe anger issues growing up past that because it was like a
lot of built up frustration that I didn't really know what to do
with. But yeah, same thing for
therapy. I played a lot of like games,
but it would more be like, I do remember it was kind of a
relationship where it was like a trade off where he was like, all
right, we can play around and I can give you a snack, but then
you need to say something about like how you're feeling.
And like that was OK for me, but I didn't do it for too long.
And today, is anyone in therapy where you you're still coming,
but do you guys still go? No.
I was put in for like a month and never wanted to open up to a
random stranger and stop going. Would you support that decision
now about? Yeah, yeah, that feels good.
I'm not going to talk to someone I.
Kind of agree with him now that he says it, but I feel like back
when I was in therapy, like right after everything happened,
I was just kind of like being feel like I had to talk or else
I'd just be like a waste of time, so.
Or you wouldn't get a piece of candy.
I mean, I definitely. I feel like it helped overall,
but I didn't really like it at the time.
Like I stopped and then made the choice to go back because like I
was dealing with other like areas of anxiety and like
friendship issues and I think some people it's hard for them
to want to open up to a stranger.
But for me, I like it because I really like having an unbiased
opinion and I really like just being able to say however I
feel. And there's like no judgement.
And like it was a good outlet for me whenever I would kind of,
you know, be frustrated like about a situation and wasn't
really feeling because sometimes, like, your friends
don't understand. I mean, most of the times, like
if your friends haven't gone through something like this,
then they won't get some of those frustrations.
So I think it's good to go somewhere that they know that
about you and that's unspoken and it doesn't have to be about
that. But if you bring it up, they're
like, oh, maybe it could have something to do with this, And
I'll be like, oh, you might be right.
And I honestly feel like she's really helped me, like see a lot
of those things where I feel like I was directing frustration
about something in the wrong direction when it was more about
maybe my trauma or something like that.
I find myself and maybe you guys can relate.
I it's easy for me to to to talk to people who've gone through
something because I've been through it.
You know how you've gone through loss at an early age and it was
easy for me to talk to people and still is about what they're
going through and that's a that's a real gift if you have
that. It's difficult to tell someone
about what they're going through if you don't have a similar
perspective. And that's just a lot of issues.
When it comes to therapy in general sometimes is that some
people just don't want to like it's hard to relate to somebody
else who has not, and you have to have someone who can really
establish that connection with you.
And you also have to be willing to go to therapy.
I feel like if you don't like, feels like you're kind of forced
to talk. You can't really do much like
that was me in 4th grade. I just didn't really want to.
I was just blaming it for other reasons.
But then later on I was willing to come back.
I think I started in 10th grade and then I I really was willing
to like put in the work and I wanted to do it.
It wasn't that I felt forced to. That's important, right?
If you're forced to do anything, you don't want it, really want
to do it most of the time. What about you guys?
Anything behind of that? Well, I like went back to
therapy, like maybe start of high school and I felt like I
was forced to do it and I just didn't like it at all.
So how long did it stop? Maybe like a month or two.
I want to go back to your dad's. I knew Toby really well.
We were good friends, so I know their story.
But I do want to hear about talk to me about your dad's.
What do you remember? You were six.
I know. Do you?
Do you remember anything? I remember a lot of who he was.
Not exactly. My interactions with him always,
I guess, like, it was more the actions that he did than the
words that he spoke, like his personality and things.
I don't really remember a lot of that, but I remember like what
we did as kids. We did a lot of stuff with
technology and like a lot of cool stuff.
I still have pictures of this, but we use like a bike light and
one of those cameras that I don't know how it works, but
you're able to, like, move light around and it's able to capture
each frame and then you can make pictures.
So we, like, wrote numbers using the bike light.
And I always said that was like really cool.
A lot of like games, like coloring games, stuff like that.
He'd always let me go on the computer and do stuff like that.
And that was always really fun. He'd read to me a lot.
Some like really cool books. We'd just go by the Public
Library and get some books and we'd read those.
And yeah, those kind of things. Those.
Are great memories. Yeah, the problem is I just
don't remember the remember him as a person specifically, but 12
years is a long time so. It is.
And when you're six, you don't know what to hold on to.
You're holding on to light and computers and colors.
Yeah, seriously, You're not like, I got to remember this
conversation, 'cause it's, you know, you're just you're too
young. I wanted to spend more time in
video games that I didn't want to be like actually interactive.
With kids? Exactly.
What about you? I think that like Ryder said,
like a lot of the stuff that you know about your dad, if they
pass away when they're young, is that like it's stuff other
people tell you? My parents both have like a
really good, like friendship network and they are really good
at making relationships. And so I remember so many people
just telling me, like things they loved about him, which I
thought was really awesome because I feel like it helps me
know more about him. Because, you know, when they,
when they die, when you're young, you don't know a lot.
I mean, now I'm like an adult. And I feel like there were
things my dad probably wouldn't have told me at 11, that he
probably would tell me now that I kind of, you know, I'm in the
same position with my mom in some sense.
But from what everybody says, and from what I remember, he was
always very smart and he was in marketing and in business.
And that's what me and Thomas both study.
And I think that that's always like really cool to see.
Like, I feel like I mostly just see a lot of his personality
traits in me and my siblings. People will tell me things about
him and then I'll be like, oh, that kind of sounds like me.
He was always very organized. That's me.
He was always very like into like math and computers.
That's Thomas, you know, things like that.
So I think that's kind of like a cool way to remember them, but
sort of a same the same thing, like I'll remember memories, but
it's hard to remember like their personality.
Although I will say since I was 11 and my siblings were younger,
I definitely remember the most because I was a little bit
older. I think everyone has like their
own personal memory, which I like.
Everyone has their own image, which is cool.
My was, yeah, my memory is somewhat similar to writers and
that like me and my dad played video games and and that sort of
thing, but. Soccer.
Yeah, one thing I like to do is hold on to the things that like
I remember of him or that we used to do together, like writer
saying he remembers the things he did with his dads.
I've continued doing those like up until currently.
Which has been good for me, you know, it makes me feel somewhat
like connected. And then I also have like a
friend of mine who also lost his father does a certain sport for
the same reason. We're like his dad got him into
it and he wants to like stay connected in some way and get
get better at it or play it more for himself.
And then also just as like a commemoration to his dad.
But yeah, I was young, I was 9 when he, he passed.
So I don't really, I didn't hold on to a lot of like, his
personality. And I found myself kind of
forgetting like what he sounded like and how he acted like at
some point. But I do have certain memories
that can kind of help me like put that together, dinners we
had or like a joke he made or you know, something funny he
did. So that's what I've been holding
on to. What about you two, Gabe?
I mean, I definitely remember more because I was older, but
I'd say certain things are harder to remember, like in the
past, like seven years, like as time goes on.
But I remember I have a lot of like specific memories, like him
going to our baseball games and like going to his office and
watching the work and stuff like that.
Your dad was a graphic designer. He had his own business, worked
downtown. He was a cyclist, loved sports.
I'm sure you guys are. Do you?
Do you see him and you in yourselves?
Think I'm We're told that more than we think we are, but yeah.
Well, physically you look like your father kind of aware.
I get it a lot because I look almost exactly like my father.
So who I never knew. And my personality is just like
my father and I did not know my father, So that's really weird.
I'm like, how did I end up with this personality?
And I look like him. What does that mean when people
say that to you? Like you look like your dad or
you act like your dad? Does that special or is it like?
It's just kind of weird. It's like hearing about someone
that you don't know or that just sort of disappeared and like
everyone else knows them but you don't.
And it's kind of weird hearing about that, sort of like, and
I'm just like them. I'm also, he was in computer
science, I'm going to computer science and game design, video
games were like my favorite moments with him.
So it's kind of weird how that all worked out, but it's kind of
weird because it feels like you're because it's my life is
so similar and people always say you look just like him, Oh,
you're doing the same stuff. You're kind of fighting against
like this expectation of guests like your own father.
And it's, I mean it's not like totally there, but it's kind of
weird given that I'm following exactly his footsteps, but I
don't know him directly. And a lot of them always say
he's like some sort of genius or something, but I just never met.
So are you a genius? I don't think so.
We'll decide that afterwards, we'll let you know.
Well, I think, like the weird thing about grief is that people
will only ever tell you like the Super positive things about a
person. Which is interesting because I,
as I get older, I'm like everyone's a very well-rounded
individual in the sense that we've all got layers.
And so it's I, you know, I love hearing all of the amazing
things about my dad. But then it's like, well, I, you
know, I only know the good stuff.
And then you think about if he was still here, I would know
everything. Or, you know, and that's kind of
like a weird feeling, just that everyone you know and it's like,
well, what are some of the, some of his like negative qualities
that maybe I have, like am I super stubborn because he was
super stubborn or like things like that, you know?
And sometimes people would say that mostly family like people
you're comfortable with or that who knew him like that.
But I do think, like, it's interesting going back to kind
of like looking more like that parent.
My mom is blonde. People, when they see us, don't
directly assume that we're related because I look very
Italian, like my dad. No, thinks I'm related.
No, they nobody thinks we're related.
Yeah. So it's kind of just
interesting. But then I in more recent years,
I've had friends say, Oh my gosh, you look just like your
mom. And I think that's so
interesting because I'm like, they don't even, they don't even
know what my dad looks like. And if they did, maybe that's
what they they would say, but it's like they they don't even
know. So then they think I look like
my mom and then I kind of see it and I think it's.
But that's like an interesting perspective I never thought of
is that if they don't know what he looks like, they can't say
that. You know, I mean, it's easier
because they're removed and you can get a better perspective.
Like if you don't, if you don't see the same genetics every
single day, like in yourself and your family, yeah, then you can
look at it from a removed perspective and be like, OK, I
see it there. What about you guys?
I'm definitely, I feel like I remember his personality, like
at least the humor part a lot more.
A lot of his humor resonates with me and his creativity.
Like, I don't know. I remember that.
From Yeah, I can see it more as we get older.
Usually when people like tell me that I'm like, like I like it,
but I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm like I see it.
Who's highly crazy? So you're both creative.
Yeah. When your parent dies, it is
the, I think the word is lionization or canonization.
But they become bigger, you know, somehow.
The stories, like they were the greatest person and you they
were the funniest and they were this and that, which was true,
I'm sure. But there was that other part
that you don't really hear about, like what irritated them
or what, You know? For me, I just didn't know any.
I don't even remember his voice. You know, I don't remember
anything. And I'm like, all I hear are
these great stories. I'm like well.
Just the little things that like you wouldn't expect to like say
about, you know, like you said, like it's like this.
It's always the big stories, the big events or like, you know,
how overarchingly of amazing of a person they were.
And then but then you're like, well, what was what?
What did he like to eat all the time?
Or like, right? Or like, did he ever complain
about doing the laundry? Like, I don't know, something
you just want like maybe like a little random thing that like
kind of makes them seem more tangible, if that makes sense.
Well, I think it's really interesting.
You guys were young and then you were older.
How old were you, Gabe? 14.
So your memories are strong and of course you were what, 11?
So your memories are you guys were both 11 when it happened.
So I'm. Only 18, so I mean.
You lived with me like more. Than half my life.
So I got a pretty good memory that was personal and all this.
Well, we're going to switch gears here.
We're going to talk about your mom's for a second, who all seem
amazing, but it could be another one of those.
You know, you only have the good and nothing.
But you know what I mean? I mean, they're your mom's and
I'm a mom. I know we are, We're annoying.
But when you look back, what do you appreciate about your mom's
during that time? Afterward, and I know it's hard
for you, but even maybe the three even up to today, what do
you appreciate about appreciate about your mother's and their
roles and helping you cope? She's done practically
everything, like she any sports events, anything for school,
she'd do it all. Even when she's not doing well
herself or having to struggle with, even like when he passed
away. I mean, I can remember like she
practically had to do everything to pick up all the pieces and
she just kept going, even if she clearly was not doing well
herself. So I I'm always grateful the
fact that she sort of dropped everything.
She actually even had a movie idea that was going to be
produced and everything, but she decided that I was more
important and she stopped the whole movie thing and decided to
spend all the time with me, which is crazy.
I'm. Not.
Crazy. No, I know.
I'm just saying. Babies, we.
Love y'all. No, I'm just saying it's like,
it's amazing, like sort of giving up all these like huge
dreams, but knowing that you have to stick by your family.
So I will always hold that in huge importance.
Yeah, I think it's interesting because being a mom is no joke.
Being a mom to multiple kids is no joke.
And when you don't choose to do it on your own and when you
weren't expecting to do it on your own, that's like a whole
new layer. So I really appreciate that
that, like kind of writer said they just, they just pick up the
pieces and keep our shit together, basically.
That's kind of all that my mom has done.
But like, she made our lives normal after, even when her life
wasn't normal. And I think that that's the
power of a mom is putting aside your own needs or your own
struggles to like be there for your kids.
And it's a very unique situation.
But she did a really good job. Yeah, I'd say the same thing.
I mean, I love my mom. And I think one of the best
things she's done is I've see, I've witnessed or, you know,
heard of people kind of maybe going off the rails after a
traumatic event or some sort of loss of a family member.
And I think that very could easily, you know, happen to me.
I was younger. So like, yeah, I was raised well
by my mom and my dad for the first nine years.
And then. But I think that these next nine
were like the most important years of my life, solely because
the way that my mom, like, cared for me and my sisters and the
way that she taught me to, you know, treat others and behave
like as a person, kind of kept me grounded.
And she was basically, you know, like reshaping these three
children and holding this family together while also like
reshaping herself and healing after the accident.
And you know, it definitely was not easy for her, and it still
isn't easy, but she's at like a really great place right now and
I'm really happy for her. Gabe.
I mean, I agree with what all y'all are saying, but I think
the whole situation made her obviously stronger.
But like, I think it can bring out good qualities too, like
you're more independent, you're more adventurous, trying new
things, all that. You see that in your in Holly?
Yeah, I see it too. That's it is remarkable what has
happened in these years. What's her life?
What about? What do you think?
I mean, when you think about it, like, not only is she having to,
like take both roles as a parent, but like, her situation
is like just as bad, if not worse.
And like, like we lost our dad, but like, she lost her husband.
On top of that, she's having to take a lot more responsibility
and like, take care of us. So she had that.
And I think I have a unique perspective because I'm the only
daughter here. I know there's more, but I feel
like that was something that my mom really had to focus on.
With Thomas, I mean, I can't speak for you, but I know having
to raise a son without a dad, I mean, God knows I know nothing
about boys. And I feel like that would just
be again, like another layer to that is that you're having to
navigate like raising a young, a young boy, and you have no idea
what that feels like. And so I think that's an
interesting addition to the chaos of dealing with that.
I think she did a good job, I'll say.
I mean, I think I was raised well, but it definitely was a
concern in some senses when I, you know, I have a question that
she couldn't answer or like a perspective that she hadn't
experienced. But I also had a lot of, like,
male figures in my life. I'd still have both my grand, My
grandfather's would have been great, and my mom's parents
stayed with us after, so I definitely had some guidance,
but it never would be the same and like, no man would ever be
my father. So she definitely had to
navigate that. But she did a great job.
My mother. So when my father died, there
were nine kids. Yikes.
And there's Seven of them are boys.
Yikes. And my So this is the 70s.
OK, 70s. I don't, you know, I'm older, so
does. I'm not hiding anything.
This is put it out there. But in the 70s.
And one of the things I can tell you is that with my mother
raising boys back then they just said buck up, you know, suck it
up, you're a boy. You know, there was no crying in
our home after my father died. And if you did, you had to hide
it for for my brothers. It's this masculinity that is
not real masculinity. It's, you know, John Wayne
masculinity, which is don't talk about your feelings.
Don't let anybody see you cry. Do what you're supposed to do.
And we're not going to talk about it.
We're going to like, it never happened.
Okay, your dad didn't die. Don't worry about it.
It's not a problem. So, so wrong.
So anyway, you know, I just think it's remarkable that you
guys have these relationships with your mother's, where I'm
sure can you tell your mom's anything for?
The most part. You don't have to tell her
everything, but would you, if it came to it, Do you think, do you
feel like that with your mom's and like if you were, if you're
sad or talk to me about that when you're having a bad day.
Do you feel comfortable talking to your parent, your mother,
about that? Yeah.
Does she ask you? Yes.
A lot. She talked to me about that.
I just think that my mom at least has mentioned having to be
the role of like 2 parents because with like the good
lessons and the bad lessons, like she's had to do both and
she said she can't like put off something for her husband to do
because he wasn't there. So she's just seems to be like
very interested in like everything we're doing because
she gets all the information because like there's not, you
can't really separate the information like your dad and
your mom. It's like, oh, it's just my mom.
So she, you know and I think my mom likes being in the know also
and you know, she just cares about what we're doing.
So always asking. Can you all agree that your
mother's want to be in the know? Yes, most definitely.
She can recognize my facial expressions and like if I'm
angry or tired or something like that, she can always tell, so
you can't hide anything from her.
So if I'm ever just like slightly off among the one
personality, she'd be like, what's wrong, Mom?
It's it's fine. Oh my gosh, how many times have
you been asked what's wrong in the last Today you can.
Hear more from the kids of every widow Thing and Part 2 coming up
next.