This is every widow. Thing Hey everyone, we're back
in the studio, and today's episode is inspired by a running
joke between me and my bestie, Liz.
We've known each other since our oldest were babies, and anytime
we get together still 21 years later, these words are said.
You know what makes me mad? Silly things back then.
And now you look back on it in perspective, like life was so
much easier, I know, but. We thought it was so hard we
didn't know what life had in store for us and it was about to
get way harder. And so now the things that make
me mad are a little bit different.
I remember something that made me mad early on and it's still
bothers me because it's sort of part of the vernacular.
I remember being in the grocery store, I don't know, maybe six
months out or something, and 1st I'm in the old Randall's.
Not the baby Randall's, but the old big Randall's.
That's now the HEB with the escalator.
Those are grocery stores for people outside their.
Mom. And I'm like, you know, I put on
the face, I was like, Oh my gosh, how are you doing?
And she was like falling apart because her husband was that
travelling. She's saying this to you, To me.
I literally walked away and I was like, yeah, my husband was
out of town. He's never coming back.
Did you say that? Did you say that?
I love it? She would've now.
You did you? Say so.
Great. Of course I didn't say oh man,
that would have. Been she would've.
I said it under my breath as I wheeled down the next aisle.
But but one thing that like does still bother me, because
subsequently I've had people like tell me that they're like a
work widow. Or even worse, like a golf widow
God, and you're just like, Oh my God, this needs to be taken out
of very common discussion. Like, especially with everything
going on in the world. I was listening about that
memorial in Maine and how one of the men was shot, has four kids
and I just. Thought of her like this morning
while I was, you know, listening to that on NPR.
And I was like, when you're telling me that your husband
plays a lot of golf and so you're a golf widow.
That is like. Not a great term, I think, for
people to be throwing around casually.
And you know, I'm not a very serious person.
You guys know this about me, but there are certain things that I
think. We we can be more sensitive.
No, I think that's a great point.
The thing is, you have to know your audience.
I was talking to a friend of mine, my son's friend that died
last February, and I'm still good friends with his mom.
And when I'm talking with her, you know, she asks about Gabe
often. But I kind of tiptoe around like
what I've been telling her because I'm trying to be
respectful of what he is with her own grade.
I think it's the same thing like.
You're in the grocery store and your husband's out of town.
You don't need to bring it up to your widow friend, right?
Or use the term widow in a just. Throwing like widow on the end
of every, you know, everyday occurrences or that.
Like, I realize people that have they have a right to feel
overwhelmed when their husbands are out of town, but reading the
room is super important. Yeah, you know what makes me
mad? I've.
Taught you how to say that, right?
People, I see it all on social media.
People are videoing themselves crying and then posting it.
And I'm like, why? What it?
I don't understand. Cry.
Fine. You can tell us about the fact
that you cried earlier, but why do I need to see a video?
What? How is that even?
Like you're crying and you go, you know what, I should video
this and put it out on social media.
I always let everyone know. Maybe it's our generation, you
know you, you cry in private. But it's this whole new, like,
vulnerability thing. And let me show you.
You know how I can be vulnerable or my feelings or, I don't know,
Like, it's proof that I have emotions.
I just hate it. It makes me mad.
I think that. It's like, put the camera down,
girl, and get a Kleenex. Think it's just part of this
whole see me never thought about it, but it is kind of culture.
Wow, You know what makes me mad? What makes?
What makes you mad, Holly? When people keep score like.
Things they've done for you and they keep score of how many good
things they've done. Yeah, and like, well, they came
to SO and So's memorial. Aren't you going to to their?
Memorial or they sent you flowers.
What are you going to do? Yeah, I I actually went on a
girls trip this past weekend and I was like oh wait, OK, well
they paid for drinks last night so they shouldn't have to pay
tonight. That's always so.
Hard. When you're on vacation, it's
really good to use those apps, like the splitter or split wise
is what. We use that.
Aren't for girls. I was just on a girls trip.
We'd literally would get out of the Uber and whoever was in
charge would say put it in the splitter right now and then that
you don't forget because you know you're drinking and you're
let's put it in the. Splitter.
OK, there's. Two that are right now.
I think there's two that are. Someone I think I've used.
Isn't it hard as a single like the widow in the group and then
there's two incomes in the other people's group or you go out
with couples. It is awkward.
It's so awkward. Yeah, right.
OK, so that in honor of Matthew Perry and friends, which is so
sad. So remember the the Friends
episode where they? Were they like, divvy up the
bill and, you know, the friends that were living in this
fabulous New York department? There's no right, but what makes
me mad is also the opposite, where you go out to dinner with
a group and someone orders like a $300.00 bottle of wine and
you're like lady. I don't know who you're hanging
out with. That doesn't happen in my crowd,
but we're always like maybe $300.00, maybe not 3. $100 Wine
but. You don't invite me to those
outings. Well.
No, I don't want to know. You do not.
It is. It is.
It is either. I'm not being quite honest.
Oh, you know what makes me mad? There we go.
When you have, when you go to a nice restaurant and you sit at
the bar and the drinks are like $17.00 and all the bar and it's
not like a fancy drink where they're muddling mint.
It's just pouring a glass of wine and then your bill comes
and you've had three glasses of wine and it's $100 or something.
And then I feel guilty not putting 20% down.
But you're sitting at the bar I used to serve, and when I had to
run for an hour serving a table, I deserve that 20%.
When you're standing behind the bar and you open the bottle
right in front of me and you pour it right in front of me and
you never break a sweat, I do. Think about going into a pool
now. Yeah, everybody splits the tip.
When I lived in Aspen I worked at the Hotel Jerome and I was, I
swear this and I was. Only a man.
I was only a host. It's a host of Stamp.
I realized, like what Kira said, we were all tipping each other
out because not everybody's jobs, OK, make as much money,
jerk. But I just think we.
Doesn't make sense in the moment when they're just.
Wait, I want to come in. Oh, right.
Yes, A. Certain A.
Certain one over there. A $17.00 glass of wine.
Why? I mean, why do you have to tip
20% well and the truth? Is on a glass of wine.
Like I I own food Bill. I mean, the rule is, although no
one follows it, you're not supposed to tip on the alcohol
that's. Right.
Yeah. So I understand the food because
it's like. A work of art on the plate, but
a glass of wine. The Hotel Jerome was so
beautiful and super fun. But we were literally there.
I I this wasn't the moment where I had three glass of wine.
We were there for one drink and she came to the table and she
took the order. And then by the way, it was not
a 20% type of attention. I don't know.
And we were right by the bar. So not even 20 minutes of work,
but being there for 20 minutes, the bill for six people to have
a drink was over $200.00. And then she gets a $40 tip.
That's a lot. It is a lot.
It is so. Expensive to live there too, I
know, but sometimes it just makes me mad and.
Well, I think it's hard because we're all single parents and we
all have a budget that we live by.
Or we try to. I've busted mine the last couple
of years, which is why now I'm having to kind of make up for
those bad two years, but also just my bad, my poor.
That's also part of the grief journey.
Totally. My mentality will be like, you
know what, Fuck it. Or I.
Deserve it. I deserve it.
I've been through a lot. The kids have been through a
lot. There is this.
I got life insurance. Did you guys all get life
insurance? I can't remember, OK.
I got a. Small like mine, or small too,
but so there's this money set aside that's got to last you
your life. Get me started on the budget,
Whitney. I'm not going to talk.
You know what makes me mad? Like my when you talk.
About the budget. So this is a huge segue, but
that's OK. Has anybody been watching The
Golden Bachelor? What makes me mad about the
golden bachelor I read? I was reading an article and a
couple of people were because I think he seems like such a kind.
Hearted high EQ mail, which is hard to find.
That's my favorite type of a man is that someone with the high EQ
can read the room, read your feel, you know, and just can
share their feelings. Well some of the people were
coming like oh he doesn't seem like he's over his wife.
Like he's crying on on the on air about his wife and yet he's
dating these women. I'm like hold the phone.
I really wish that I could say hey, he will.
Never get over it. Just so you know.
He is working through his feelings and he seems to be in
the perfect place to meet someone new.
You know you're judging someone a that you don't really know,
but two, you're never going to get over it.
I still cry about my husband occasionally.
Four years later, this is so interesting.
So my uncle, who is 82, his wife died maybe 5 1/2 years ago and
he just recently started dating another widow, a woman who's
actually lost two husbands. But she basically said, I have
been Googling information about widowers and I don't think
you're over your wife. You are living in the past and I
go, Jerry, you were with this woman for 50 something years.
Anytime you talk about an experience or wisdom that you've
learned over the years, she's a part of it.
And he was really worried about it.
He was like, am I living in the past?
And I go, you're not living in the past just because you bring
her up when you talk about your life.
So that really made me mad. There's a huge difference
between living in the past and having the past.
Be a part of who you are and how you operate I.
Love the means episode. I don't know how many of our
listeners listen to. I think quite a lot of people
listen to that episode. I mean, they brought their old
lives into their. About their together on their,
you know, their first meeting, there's.
Someone who's a widow and a widower ought to be the most.
I'm a little bit afraid of widowers because I know how deep
that stuff runs. Yeah, but so does trauma from
divorce or never being married. I mean, everybody's going to
come with baggage, but I'm going to I want to tell you one more
thing that makes me mad because this happened.
It came out of nowhere over the weekend when I'm with these
girls, these are my friends that I I met when our kids were
young. We were all like in carpool
together. We were living similar lives
with our children and we just became this very tight knit
group and we got together this weekend for a girls trip.
Let me just preface by saying I had had some wine.
There had been 300. Dollar bottle with a. 20% tip.
So there was, and I was not as clear headed, you know, as I
could have been. But we're sitting at dinner and
one of my friends starts talking about her dad dating and her mom
died and how it frustrated her and how she felt like it was
disrespectful. And I don't know where it came
from, you guys, but I literally had this inner rage.
And I think it's because we've been talking a lot about, Oh my
gosh, I was pounding on the table.
It was not good what you say. So you know what?
This is bullshit. Nobody has the right to judge
someone after their spouse has died.
Till death do you part. They fulfilled their commitment.
You have no right to decide when it is time or when it is OK to
date. You know, I laughed at Janice
when she said my my husband said I'd prefer that you don't bring
a date to the funeral, but I definitely want you to go out
and and he's just enraged me. You can say I'm you're a little.
Worried maybe you're not in a little more place to be that it?
Really. I have to say I I have to
apologize. You don't.
Know what the hell you're gonna do until you have.
Friends. A lot, Yes.
We're still friend. You run the gamut on the dating.
Oh my God. Do it past, you know,
relationships cropping up and, you know, dating friends of the
state, spouse and all of it. Like that's all going on.
Yes, I think we all agree that in the perfect world, you
probably should give yourself some time to grieve and feel all
the emotions, what you're really feeling.
Careful of not hurting those people.
I mean, I had some people that I dated early on that probably I
wasn't ready and so that wasn't necessarily fair to them.
But in in our defense. You don't know until you know.
I mean you've we've never had a dead husband before.
How do you like, I thought I was ready three years in.
Clearly I was not. And it took another year and a
half to realize, whoa, you are so not in the place to be able.
But you know sometimes you want an escape from grief like.
And so for people to judge, that really makes me angry.
Yeah, I I lost it a little bit to the point where like later I
was like, 'cause it's not me, it's not typically me.
Now I'm glad, you know, they started they, you know, they
started trying to explain what they meant, but I honestly was
having an out of body. Experience.
You could not. You could not rationalize I I
was like, pounding the table at one point and they're making.
See, he's gonna get the bill. They were like, they were kind
of in shock too, because they were just like, where's this
coming from? And it's been five years.
You were the only widow in that room, right?
And I I said that many times. Trust me, No, in hindsight, I I
would have handled it differently had I been a little
bit more in my body. But because I had been drinking,
your rational brain is is not. As a depressed present.
Well, it's interesting because so Toby's dad died in his late
50s and his mom started dating when his mom started dating,
which I don't know how long it was.
But he was like, mad about it. And I think about that now.
It's kind of weird, you know. That is interesting.
It's funny to think about because we were, I mean, he was
probably when he ate. I mean, we were, we were married
brown, like, and I'm like it. It's good for her, like to be
with somebody, you know, there's this, there's what kept coming
up that night was a disrespect, like they just felt like it was
disrespectful. And that's what I think got me
really enraged. I just.
Don't think you understand if you haven't been through it.
Would you rather? Like he, like Toby, was like
trying to protect his mom. I think she.
Was trying to protect her because someone might take
advantage of her as a widow? Maybe.
But that's not as her bigger. That doesn't elicit anger.
Anger is coming from I think you are disrespecting my dad or
you're You're disrespecting me. There's, there's.
And how is it disrespecting if back to the golden bachelor,
every single one of us in here, our spouses, would want us to
move on and find love again and have another chapter.
And this came up in the golden Bachelor again, where some of
them, you know, the women you know, revealed that as their
husband was ill and dying. You know, they said.
I want you to carry on. You know, find someone.
I want you to find love again. And one of the women said I
didn't want to hear it and I shut it down.
And I said Nope, I'm not. And then you know she now she's
not. In the Golden Bachelor.
It's so hard. When you had the one you wanted
so hard. It doesn't mean they're not
great. It doesn't mean there aren't
wonderful men out there. But it's hard when you think
that was it. You don't have to do.
This and that skill set goes away.
I have to say that I wasn't very good at.
Like flirting. When I got back out there, I
just clearly still. Know, I've seen.
You. I've never been.
I mean nothing like this. Few drinks like.
You ain't the. Bar but I I'm friendly.
I wasn't. You know you're not when you're
committed. You're not used to.
Eyeballing other guys or right flipping your hair or whatever
to get the attention. I had to relearn some of the you
know, it's a little rusty. You get a little rusty out
there. Are you like winking at yourself
in the bathroom mirror? Like what is this?
Every morning one of the things that I did struggle with that.
I mean, I wouldn't say it made me mad, but for a while there I
had trouble being around people that just had never really gone
through anything hard in terms of.
You know they were complaining about their new kitchen tile
being on back order or something like that, right?
They don't have the perspective. Or they would say things.
I don't know if this ever happened to y'all, but they
would say something like, I mean, I lost like a grandparent,
you know? But they were old, yeah, but
they had never lost someone, you know?
In the prime of their life that was close to them.
That knowledge with my own life helps me when other people are
dealing with something that I don't understand.
Maybe it seems like they're overreacting, but you know what?
I've never been in that situation, so I'm just going to
let them. Feel and be so much nicer if you
say, you know what, I don't understand?
It was really more like, I feel like my mom deserves more
grieving time. I feel like you're trying to
replace her have that kind of a conversation instead of it's too
soon. Like really it's more about the
other person. My sister told me that too.
She was like when I started to date.
She goes, oh, I don't think I'm ready for that.
And I go, well, good news, it's not you.
Exactly. It's not about you don't have to
worry about it. But she was like, I don't want
to see you with anybody else. I'm not ready for that.
OK. We'll go deal with that in
another room. Yeah.
You know and don't. Put it up on what they think you
should do and I all we can do is show everybody grace and even if
it makes me mad, I'll try to get over it.
And that should be that should be the end, yeah.
I'll try to.