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This is every widow. 
Thing Hey everyone, we're back 

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in the studio, and today's 
episode is inspired by a running

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joke between me and my bestie, 
Liz. 

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We've known each other since our
oldest were babies, and anytime 

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we get together still 21 years 
later, these words are said. 

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You know what makes me mad? 
Silly things back then. 

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And now you look back on it in 
perspective, like life was so 

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much easier, I know, but. 
We thought it was so hard we 

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didn't know what life had in 
store for us and it was about to

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get way harder. 
And so now the things that make 

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me mad are a little bit 
different. 

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I remember something that made 
me mad early on and it's still 

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bothers me because it's sort of 
part of the vernacular. 

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I remember being in the grocery 
store, I don't know, maybe six 

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months out or something, and 1st
I'm in the old Randall's. 

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Not the baby Randall's, but the 
old big Randall's. 

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That's now the HEB with the 
escalator. 

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Those are grocery stores for 
people outside their. 

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Mom. 
And I'm like, you know, I put on

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the face, I was like, Oh my 
gosh, how are you doing? 

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And she was like falling apart 
because her husband was that 

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travelling. 
She's saying this to you, To me.

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I literally walked away and I 
was like, yeah, my husband was 

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out of town. 
He's never coming back. 

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Did you say that? 
Did you say that? 

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I love it? 
She would've now. 

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You did you? 
Say so. 

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Great. 
Of course I didn't say oh man, 

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that would have. 
Been she would've. 

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I said it under my breath as I 
wheeled down the next aisle. 

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But but one thing that like does
still bother me, because 

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subsequently I've had people 
like tell me that they're like a

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work widow. 
Or even worse, like a golf widow

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God, and you're just like, Oh my
God, this needs to be taken out 

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of very common discussion. 
Like, especially with everything

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going on in the world. 
I was listening about that 

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memorial in Maine and how one of
the men was shot, has four kids 

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and I just. 
Thought of her like this morning

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while I was, you know, listening
to that on NPR. 

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And I was like, when you're 
telling me that your husband 

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plays a lot of golf and so 
you're a golf widow. 

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That is like. 
Not a great term, I think, for 

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people to be throwing around 
casually. 

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And you know, I'm not a very 
serious person. 

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You guys know this about me, but
there are certain things that I 

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think. 
We we can be more sensitive. 

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No, I think that's a great 
point. 

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The thing is, you have to know 
your audience. 

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I was talking to a friend of 
mine, my son's friend that died 

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last February, and I'm still 
good friends with his mom. 

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And when I'm talking with her, 
you know, she asks about Gabe 

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often. 
But I kind of tiptoe around like

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what I've been telling her 
because I'm trying to be 

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respectful of what he is with 
her own grade. 

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I think it's the same thing 
like. 

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You're in the grocery store and 
your husband's out of town. 

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You don't need to bring it up to
your widow friend, right? 

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Or use the term widow in a just.
Throwing like widow on the end 

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of every, you know, everyday 
occurrences or that. 

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Like, I realize people that have
they have a right to feel 

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overwhelmed when their husbands 
are out of town, but reading the

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room is super important. 
Yeah, you know what makes me 

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mad? 
I've. 

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Taught you how to say that, 
right? 

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People, I see it all on social 
media. 

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People are videoing themselves 
crying and then posting it. 

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And I'm like, why? 
What it? 

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I don't understand. 
Cry. 

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Fine. 
You can tell us about the fact 

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that you cried earlier, but why 
do I need to see a video? 

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What? 
How is that even? 

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Like you're crying and you go, 
you know what, I should video 

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this and put it out on social 
media. 

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I always let everyone know. 
Maybe it's our generation, you 

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know you, you cry in private. 
But it's this whole new, like, 

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vulnerability thing. 
And let me show you. 

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You know how I can be vulnerable
or my feelings or, I don't know,

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Like, it's proof that I have 
emotions. 

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I just hate it. 
It makes me mad. 

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I think that. 
It's like, put the camera down, 

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girl, and get a Kleenex. 
Think it's just part of this 

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whole see me never thought about
it, but it is kind of culture. 

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Wow, You know what makes me mad?
What makes? 

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What makes you mad, Holly? 
When people keep score like. 

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Things they've done for you and 
they keep score of how many good

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things they've done. 
Yeah, and like, well, they came 

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to SO and So's memorial. 
Aren't you going to to their? 

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Memorial or they sent you 
flowers. 

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What are you going to do? 
Yeah, I I actually went on a 

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girls trip this past weekend and
I was like oh wait, OK, well 

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they paid for drinks last night 
so they shouldn't have to pay 

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tonight. 
That's always so. 

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Hard. 
When you're on vacation, it's 

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really good to use those apps, 
like the splitter or split wise 

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is what. 
We use that. 

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Aren't for girls. 
I was just on a girls trip. 

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We'd literally would get out of 
the Uber and whoever was in 

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charge would say put it in the 
splitter right now and then that

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you don't forget because you 
know you're drinking and you're 

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let's put it in the. 
Splitter. 

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OK, there's. 
Two that are right now. 

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I think there's two that are. 
Someone I think I've used. 

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Isn't it hard as a single like 
the widow in the group and then 

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there's two incomes in the other
people's group or you go out 

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with couples. 
It is awkward. 

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It's so awkward. 
Yeah, right. 

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OK, so that in honor of Matthew 
Perry and friends, which is so 

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sad. 
So remember the the Friends 

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episode where they? 
Were they like, divvy up the 

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bill and, you know, the friends 
that were living in this 

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fabulous New York department? 
There's no right, but what makes

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me mad is also the opposite, 
where you go out to dinner with 

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a group and someone orders like 
a $300.00 bottle of wine and 

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you're like lady. 
I don't know who you're hanging 

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out with. 
That doesn't happen in my crowd,

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but we're always like maybe 
$300.00, maybe not 3. $100 Wine 

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but. 
You don't invite me to those 

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outings. 
Well. 

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No, I don't want to know. 
You do not. 

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It is. 
It is. 

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It is either. 
I'm not being quite honest. 

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Oh, you know what makes me mad? 
There we go. 

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When you have, when you go to a 
nice restaurant and you sit at 

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the bar and the drinks are like 
$17.00 and all the bar and it's 

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not like a fancy drink where 
they're muddling mint. 

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It's just pouring a glass of 
wine and then your bill comes 

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and you've had three glasses of 
wine and it's $100 or something.

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And then I feel guilty not 
putting 20% down. 

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But you're sitting at the bar I 
used to serve, and when I had to

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run for an hour serving a table,
I deserve that 20%. 

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When you're standing behind the 
bar and you open the bottle 

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right in front of me and you 
pour it right in front of me and

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you never break a sweat, I do. 
Think about going into a pool 

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now. 
Yeah, everybody splits the tip. 

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When I lived in Aspen I worked 
at the Hotel Jerome and I was, I

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swear this and I was. 
Only a man. 

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I was only a host. 
It's a host of Stamp. 

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I realized, like what Kira said,
we were all tipping each other 

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out because not everybody's 
jobs, OK, make as much money, 

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jerk. 
But I just think we. 

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Doesn't make sense in the moment
when they're just. 

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Wait, I want to come in. 
Oh, right. 

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Yes, A. 
Certain A. 

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Certain one over there. 
A $17.00 glass of wine. 

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Why? 
I mean, why do you have to tip 

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20% well and the truth? 
Is on a glass of wine. 

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Like I I own food Bill. 
I mean, the rule is, although no

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one follows it, you're not 
supposed to tip on the alcohol 

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that's. 
Right. 

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Yeah. 
So I understand the food because

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it's like. 
A work of art on the plate, but 

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a glass of wine. 
The Hotel Jerome was so 

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beautiful and super fun. 
But we were literally there. 

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I I this wasn't the moment where
I had three glass of wine. 

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We were there for one drink and 
she came to the table and she 

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took the order. 
And then by the way, it was not 

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a 20% type of attention. 
I don't know. 

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And we were right by the bar. 
So not even 20 minutes of work, 

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but being there for 20 minutes, 
the bill for six people to have 

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a drink was over $200.00. 
And then she gets a $40 tip. 

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That's a lot. 
It is a lot. 

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It is so. 
Expensive to live there too, I 

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know, but sometimes it just 
makes me mad and. 

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Well, I think it's hard because 
we're all single parents and we 

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all have a budget that we live 
by. 

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Or we try to. 
I've busted mine the last couple

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of years, which is why now I'm 
having to kind of make up for 

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those bad two years, but also 
just my bad, my poor. 

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That's also part of the grief 
journey. 

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Totally. 
My mentality will be like, you 

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know what, Fuck it. 
Or I. 

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Deserve it. 
I deserve it. 

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I've been through a lot. 
The kids have been through a 

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lot. 
There is this. 

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I got life insurance. 
Did you guys all get life 

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insurance? 
I can't remember, OK. 

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I got a. 
Small like mine, or small too, 

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but so there's this money set 
aside that's got to last you 

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your life. 
Get me started on the budget, 

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Whitney. 
I'm not going to talk. 

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You know what makes me mad? 
Like my when you talk. 

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About the budget. 
So this is a huge segue, but 

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that's OK. 
Has anybody been watching The 

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Golden Bachelor? 
What makes me mad about the 

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golden bachelor I read? 
I was reading an article and a 

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couple of people were because I 
think he seems like such a kind.

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Hearted high EQ mail, which is 
hard to find. 

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That's my favorite type of a man
is that someone with the high EQ

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can read the room, read your 
feel, you know, and just can 

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share their feelings. 
Well some of the people were 

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coming like oh he doesn't seem 
like he's over his wife. 

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Like he's crying on on the on 
air about his wife and yet he's 

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dating these women. 
I'm like hold the phone. 

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I really wish that I could say 
hey, he will. 

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Never get over it. 
Just so you know. 

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He is working through his 
feelings and he seems to be in 

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the perfect place to meet 
someone new. 

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You know you're judging someone 
a that you don't really know, 

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but two, you're never going to 
get over it. 

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I still cry about my husband 
occasionally. 

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Four years later, this is so 
interesting. 

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So my uncle, who is 82, his wife
died maybe 5 1/2 years ago and 

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he just recently started dating 
another widow, a woman who's 

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actually lost two husbands. 
But she basically said, I have 

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been Googling information about 
widowers and I don't think 

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you're over your wife. 
You are living in the past and I

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go, Jerry, you were with this 
woman for 50 something years. 

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Anytime you talk about an 
experience or wisdom that you've

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learned over the years, she's a 
part of it. 

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And he was really worried about 
it. 

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He was like, am I living in the 
past? 

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And I go, you're not living in 
the past just because you bring 

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her up when you talk about your 
life. 

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So that really made me mad. 
There's a huge difference 

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between living in the past and 
having the past. 

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Be a part of who you are and how
you operate I. 

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Love the means episode. 
I don't know how many of our 

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listeners listen to. 
I think quite a lot of people 

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listen to that episode. 
I mean, they brought their old 

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lives into their. 
About their together on their, 

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you know, their first meeting, 
there's. 

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Someone who's a widow and a 
widower ought to be the most. 

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I'm a little bit afraid of 
widowers because I know how deep

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that stuff runs. 
Yeah, but so does trauma from 

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divorce or never being married. 
I mean, everybody's going to 

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come with baggage, but I'm going
to I want to tell you one more 

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thing that makes me mad because 
this happened. 

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It came out of nowhere over the 
weekend when I'm with these 

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girls, these are my friends that
I I met when our kids were 

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young. 
We were all like in carpool 

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together. 
We were living similar lives 

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with our children and we just 
became this very tight knit 

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group and we got together this 
weekend for a girls trip. 

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Let me just preface by saying I 
had had some wine. 

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There had been 300. 
Dollar bottle with a. 20% tip. 

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So there was, and I was not as 
clear headed, you know, as I 

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could have been. 
But we're sitting at dinner and 

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one of my friends starts talking
about her dad dating and her mom

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00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,000
died and how it frustrated her 
and how she felt like it was 

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disrespectful. 
And I don't know where it came 

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from, you guys, but I literally 
had this inner rage. 

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00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,520
And I think it's because we've 
been talking a lot about, Oh my 

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00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,040
gosh, I was pounding on the 
table. 

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00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,680
It was not good what you say. 
So you know what? 

245
00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,000
This is bullshit. 
Nobody has the right to judge 

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00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,160
someone after their spouse has 
died. 

247
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Till death do you part. 
They fulfilled their commitment.

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You have no right to decide when
it is time or when it is OK to 

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date. 
You know, I laughed at Janice 

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00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,240
when she said my my husband said
I'd prefer that you don't bring 

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00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,920
a date to the funeral, but I 
definitely want you to go out 

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00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,720
and and he's just enraged me. 
You can say I'm you're a little.

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00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,120
Worried maybe you're not in a 
little more place to be that it?

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00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,840
Really. 
I have to say I I have to 

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00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:33,520
apologize. 
You don't. 

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00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,040
Know what the hell you're gonna 
do until you have. 

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Friends. 
A lot, Yes. 

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We're still friend. 
You run the gamut on the dating.

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00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,000
Oh my God. 
Do it past, you know, 

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relationships cropping up and, 
you know, dating friends of the 

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00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,920
state, spouse and all of it. 
Like that's all going on. 

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00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:54,720
Yes, I think we all agree that 
in the perfect world, you 

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probably should give yourself 
some time to grieve and feel all

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00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,080
the emotions, what you're really
feeling. 

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Careful of not hurting those 
people. 

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00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,960
I mean, I had some people that I
dated early on that probably I 

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wasn't ready and so that wasn't 
necessarily fair to them. 

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00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,400
But in in our defense. 
You don't know until you know. 

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I mean you've we've never had a 
dead husband before. 

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00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,160
How do you like, I thought I was
ready three years in. 

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00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,120
Clearly I was not. 
And it took another year and a 

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00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,480
half to realize, whoa, you are 
so not in the place to be able. 

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But you know sometimes you want 
an escape from grief like. 

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And so for people to judge, that
really makes me angry. 

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00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,280
Yeah, I I lost it a little bit 
to the point where like later I 

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was like, 'cause it's not me, 
it's not typically me. 

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00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,600
Now I'm glad, you know, they 
started they, you know, they 

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started trying to explain what 
they meant, but I honestly was 

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00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,520
having an out of body. 
Experience. 

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00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,600
You could not. 
You could not rationalize I I 

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was like, pounding the table at 
one point and they're making. 

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See, he's gonna get the bill. 
They were like, they were kind 

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00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,440
of in shock too, because they 
were just like, where's this 

284
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,520
coming from? 
And it's been five years. 

285
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,640
You were the only widow in that 
room, right? 

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00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:16,800
And I I said that many times. 
Trust me, No, in hindsight, I I 

287
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,080
would have handled it 
differently had I been a little 

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00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,120
bit more in my body. 
But because I had been drinking,

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00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,840
your rational brain is is not. 
As a depressed present. 

290
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,640
Well, it's interesting because 
so Toby's dad died in his late 

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00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,720
50s and his mom started dating 
when his mom started dating, 

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00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,200
which I don't know how long it 
was. 

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00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,560
But he was like, mad about it. 
And I think about that now. 

294
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,640
It's kind of weird, you know. 
That is interesting. 

295
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,000
It's funny to think about 
because we were, I mean, he was 

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00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,240
probably when he ate. 
I mean, we were, we were married

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00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,800
brown, like, and I'm like it. 
It's good for her, like to be 

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00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,080
with somebody, you know, there's
this, there's what kept coming 

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00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,720
up that night was a disrespect, 
like they just felt like it was 

300
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,280
disrespectful. 
And that's what I think got me 

301
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,160
really enraged. 
I just. 

302
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,040
Don't think you understand if 
you haven't been through it. 

303
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,760
Would you rather? 
Like he, like Toby, was like 

304
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,680
trying to protect his mom. 
I think she. 

305
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:22,800
Was trying to protect her 
because someone might take 

306
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,880
advantage of her as a widow? 
Maybe. 

307
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,480
But that's not as her bigger. 
That doesn't elicit anger. 

308
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:35,840
Anger is coming from I think you
are disrespecting my dad or 

309
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,440
you're You're disrespecting me. 
There's, there's. 

310
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,000
And how is it disrespecting if 
back to the golden bachelor, 

311
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,440
every single one of us in here, 
our spouses, would want us to 

312
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,080
move on and find love again and 
have another chapter. 

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00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,040
And this came up in the golden 
Bachelor again, where some of 

314
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:00,120
them, you know, the women you 
know, revealed that as their 

315
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,119
husband was ill and dying. 
You know, they said. 

316
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,960
I want you to carry on. 
You know, find someone. 

317
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,319
I want you to find love again. 
And one of the women said I 

318
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,359
didn't want to hear it and I 
shut it down. 

319
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,280
And I said Nope, I'm not. 
And then you know she now she's 

320
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:20,319
not. 
In the Golden Bachelor. 

321
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,760
It's so hard. 
When you had the one you wanted 

322
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,720
so hard. 
It doesn't mean they're not 

323
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,079
great. 
It doesn't mean there aren't 

324
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,200
wonderful men out there. 
But it's hard when you think 

325
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,600
that was it. 
You don't have to do. 

326
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,760
This and that skill set goes 
away. 

327
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,280
I have to say that I wasn't very
good at. 

328
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,400
Like flirting. 
When I got back out there, I 

329
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,160
just clearly still. 
Know, I've seen. 

330
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,680
You. 
I've never been. 

331
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,480
I mean nothing like this. 
Few drinks like. 

332
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,440
You ain't the. 
Bar but I I'm friendly. 

333
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,280
I wasn't. 
You know you're not when you're 

334
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,080
committed. 
You're not used to. 

335
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,240
Eyeballing other guys or right 
flipping your hair or whatever 

336
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,720
to get the attention. 
I had to relearn some of the you

337
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,120
know, it's a little rusty. 
You get a little rusty out 

338
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,080
there. 
Are you like winking at yourself

339
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,520
in the bathroom mirror? 
Like what is this? 

340
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,400
Every morning one of the things 
that I did struggle with that. 

341
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,680
I mean, I wouldn't say it made 
me mad, but for a while there I 

342
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,680
had trouble being around people 
that just had never really gone 

343
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,960
through anything hard in terms 
of. 

344
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,520
You know they were complaining 
about their new kitchen tile 

345
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,360
being on back order or something
like that, right? 

346
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,960
They don't have the perspective.
Or they would say things. 

347
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,320
I don't know if this ever 
happened to y'all, but they 

348
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,040
would say something like, I 
mean, I lost like a grandparent,

349
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:39,320
you know? 
But they were old, yeah, but 

350
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,560
they had never lost someone, you
know? 

351
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,160
In the prime of their life that 
was close to them. 

352
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:49,880
That knowledge with my own life 
helps me when other people are 

353
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,000
dealing with something that I 
don't understand. 

354
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,080
Maybe it seems like they're 
overreacting, but you know what?

355
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,400
I've never been in that 
situation, so I'm just going to 

356
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,120
let them. 
Feel and be so much nicer if you

357
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,560
say, you know what, I don't 
understand? 

358
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,520
It was really more like, I feel 
like my mom deserves more 

359
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,400
grieving time. 
I feel like you're trying to 

360
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,440
replace her have that kind of a 
conversation instead of it's too

361
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,920
soon. 
Like really it's more about the 

362
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,560
other person. 
My sister told me that too. 

363
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,200
She was like when I started to 
date. 

364
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,560
She goes, oh, I don't think I'm 
ready for that. 

365
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,320
And I go, well, good news, it's 
not you. 

366
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,360
Exactly. 
It's not about you don't have to

367
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,920
worry about it. 
But she was like, I don't want 

368
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,200
to see you with anybody else. 
I'm not ready for that. 

369
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,080
OK. 
We'll go deal with that in 

370
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,720
another room. 
Yeah. 

371
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,600
You know and don't. 
Put it up on what they think you

372
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,760
should do and I all we can do is
show everybody grace and even if

373
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,520
it makes me mad, I'll try to get
over it. 

374
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,920
And that should be that should 
be the end, yeah. 

375
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:55,960
I'll try to.