Grief is messy and I know made. This is every Widow thing.
Welcome back to another episode of every 100 thing.
We're so glad you're here and we hope that we can help you in
some way Kyra. You had a thought earlier, I was
thinking about the purpose of the podcast and what we can
offer people and these two words have kind of my head resource
and reprieve, mmm because I think Think we're a resource.
If unfortunately you're going through this and it's also a
reprieve because we laugh a lot and we try and find the humor in
difficult things. And it carries us through and it
gets us to the other side. I feel like one of my coping
skills is humor. I'm curious because I think I
know the answer. But, is that one of your coping
skills Cara, 100%. For me, I mean, I like to joke,
It's A coping mechanism for sure.
After the accident, I was in the car car accident, I was in the
hospital for weeks and I've joked a lot with the staff.
I was also on a lot of drugs. I mean yeah.
It was definitely a way to push aside difficult things that I
wasn't ready to face. And yeah it's not always the
best way. It's a deflector right.
What about you Holly? Absolutely.
I was joking in the funeral home.
Oh, really, maybe I should save that for a later.
I know I would love to hear that joke.
Now, Toby was cremated and I was asked, which box I wanted to put
them in and how much and then I asked, how much was the box and
I said, is there a cheaper box? Because he ain't cares, told
there's a pine box for $100 and I said, I will take that one
because Toby would Want me to spend money.
Actually, my dad spent the money on it, but he would not have
wanted to spend money on a box that was burned.
All right, I'm going to buy this box and burn it.
We all like, it had a roomful of like my dad, my sister, my
brother-in-law and lots of friends, and we all agreed Toby
would not spend money on a box to burn, right that that's where
it started. Yeah.
I love it. They see that.
Toby, I know all of our hubby's would have been such good
friends. I think they would have been
very different to like us. Yeah.
So Lacey. I, I mean, I feel your humor all
the time. You say you're not funny but I
think you're hilarious. Mine's dark.
I think it's weird or I don't know, maybe.
But you guys get it. We all have such dark jokes.
I remember in the hospital when he was, he was only there for a
day but he was in the hospital in a coma.
And only one of my friends was there and recently, she and I
got together because we were talking about this podcast and I
said, can you just finally tell me exactly what happened that
day in the hospital room and I remembered bits and pieces of
it, because it was so fast, it was less than 24 hours or less
than 12 actually. And she said, I remember one
thing you did, that was just odd and funny.
But so you, he was in the bed, obviously, a hospital bed and he
was in a coma, the Priest was on the other side who subsequently
died, six months later, which is really odd.
Oh my God, we were very close the priests tonight because he
had kind of a sick sense of humor, too, which is why I
really liked him. And so he was sitting on the
opposite side, I was on the opposite side, we were kind of
an Oliver was in the middle and I lifted up the sheet and it's
like I still has a nice ass, he was in a coma and I think the
nurses, the doctors collectively Like something is wrong with
this woman because the whole day I've been hysterical and
throwing up and uh and then all of a sudden that weird thing
came out of me and I don't know and I remember my therapist
telling me sound like I'm from La for sure.
Therapy is very important, it is very important.
But I remember her telling me. If you can laugh in the dark
times, I know you're going to be okay.
And all of us I've seen all of us laughter the dark times.
That's how I know we're going to be okay.
Yeah, that's so true. How long have you been a widow
then? In 11 years, 11 years and three
months. But who's counting?
You're celebrating our 10th year wedding anniversary in Vegas.
He was on a tech trip. That's poignant.
We were celebrating our 10-year wedding anniversary and yeah he
died before we could go on the trip.
That was so like days before when I had been to Vegas since
you haven't no do you think you have to?
Well at least I'm probably missing them but no missing.
A but I'm just glad this is kind of sick, but I'm glad at least
dotted home. What if he'd been in Vegas?
I have that exact same thought about how hard ya, Frank was on
a business trip and New York the night before and he arrived, he
literally arrived home in Austin.
Got in bed with me. Okay, well well let's just stop
like I don't have to talk about that.
It's not Okay.
That's, I will come back to later because I have regretted
the fact that we like, really just fell asleep because we had
to get up at 5:00 4:30. Yeah.
Isn't it crazy when we think about the amount of time that
it's been? Since we saw them or heard their
voice, he's been gone as long as I knew.
Him. That's what a that just Gail.
Yeah, yeah. Like that.
No, I remember when Hunter died, thinking I've known, I've, he's
been in my life longer than he liked, was not in my life.
So guys, we're both night to yeah, we met at 19.
Yeah, so it was a gift, it was a blessing to have him there for
so long versus you and Oliver only got 10 years.
But let's compare know we always my thing.
That's right, we can't compare. And the truth is, if we're going
to compare, And then you go down another road of like well
somebody only got one year or somebody or someone never got
this grief. Yeah exactly.
Minimizing somebody's does not bring them back.
It actually won't Garner you friendship either and it's all
hard that I know not going to come back.
It doesn't matter how cardless. I think each one of us has
different challenges as a result of what happened.
Yeah, but I don't sit around comparing it.
That's not and and and, and you're so right, it doesn't
matter. And Holly you just said, To it
doesn't matter how long you were married or how long you had with
them if you only had one day with the love of your life and
then they were gone. That doesn't mean the grief is
any less or anymore. It's like, it's just different,
it's just different, but it's still very, very intense, its
intense and even this is something that I didn't realize
until I own husband died, because I had some friends that
hat and, and And you were probably this friend for a lot
of people. They see they lost their husband
and like five years and people are like, okay, you're still
celebrating his birthday. You're still talking about your
anniversary like they don't get it, you know.
Yeah but the truth is it doesn't matter how long it's been some
days. It feels like it was yesterday.
It's also the father of our children true.
Don't forget that. I mean some of mine were from no
They're all from hands. A lot of details about
everybody's story. I had don't even know.
Yeah. And why do you think that is?
I think because when we get together, the last thing we want
to focus on is the dark stuff, but we do touch on it but we
don't go back out and eat our right.
When we get to get many times we get together, we just want to
escape and have fun, but yeah, it is nice to take a break.
I don't know that you and I Kira ever went through every gory
detail. I don't think that's something I
ever do. Very I did EMDR, so I could
forget it. Hey, I mean, I've told it so
many times, but I feel like I definitely shared with Holly.
Probably that first time you did and I'll never forget Toby and I
were like, This is an eye for boating.
Like, I feel like we were, everyone's nightmare in a lot of
ways and we also probably thought it doesn't happen to us.
You never think it's gonna happen to you, right ever.
Thought was gonna happen to me me either and then it did.
So you never think? And I kind of now we hate it,
when people say why me and I'm like, why not you yeah.
Why not you? Well and that's something that
that's that's a victim thought versus coming from a place of
strength. I feel like, yeah, if Sit in
the. Why me?
Look, it it is you.
So I just got a million now, I used to stay means that you're
better than our. You're not supposed to have
everything, right? Terrible happened to you, right?
So I am and then wire. No, that isn't.
This is my issue with the term. Blessed hashtag blessed.
You are until something bad happens.
Bad stuff, happens, everybody. No I think you are blessed in
spite of that. I think they're There were
blessings inside this trauma. One of them is meeting the three
of you, that is a blessing. Now, you know, I'm sure if
someone said look, do you want to hang out with Holly Lacey and
Kara, or do you want your husband back at be like bye
Bitches Only times that about how like our husbands but I
probably would have all gotten along.
Yeah. I could have been couple friends
because I was married to someone totally opposite for I've you
but you but I feel like in a way We are a little opposite.
Yeah, that's why means, right, if I wonder how they do, you
would have been better friends with are my husband and I would
have connected Whitney. You would have connected more
with Toby. Yeah.
But here's the she's nosy but no, because I don't want to have
to compete with someone for the attention in the room.
True I would have been better friends, I don't, you feel like
I've become a little more extrovert and he was the
extrovert and that I think. Think is another thing that will
address in this podcast has changed how it changes you, and
sometimes as crazy as it sounds for the better, it doesn't mean
that you wouldn't have gotten there even if your husband had
lived. But I do believe that it pushed
us to be different and and that has given us a blessing, but I
have a little story, I was just talking to my mother and my dad
has recently had foot surgery. He's, he's been kind of out of
commission and she was like, oh my God.
I never realized like how you know, much.
I relied on him getting up every morning and making the coffee
now that like, he's laid up like I have to get up and get out of
bed and go make the coffee. And I said, gosh mom, you know,
that's one of the things I really noticed after Frank died
because he always got up made the coffee.
And even when we were first dating and living in New York
City, he would get up, we were in this tiny apartment.
Won't he would take the grinder into the bathroom and grind the
beans so that it didn't wait. I mean, I'm like, how old, how
long were y'all married again and then?
Well, we were just seeing other. We were living in sin and New
York at that point. I said I get it mom.
Like I miss just having someone make the coffee.
It's the little things that you miss Italy and we just had this
moment. She was just like, I'm so glad
your dad's It is better. Not like because now my papi you
know what now I make the coffee. You know?
Like I yeah you learn how to make the cough.
Got up and started making the coffee.
Well he didn't make that person was gone, he was a good guy
with. That was not being you do get
strength in suffering and I think we all would agree that we
feel like we could handle whatever comes our way at this
point. Don't you think?
I think we Have handled we have but even moving forward.
I just really in the core of my being now know that, you know
what, whatever happens next got it.
It doesn't mean I won't be sad. It doesn't mean it won't hurt,
but I will fucking handle it. And that is a gift and you
hashtag blessed. You have to.
Yeah, you have no choice. Although we say that.
Well, you actually do have a choice.
You do have a just chose the one.
That's exactly, exactly. Agreed.
All right, so that kind of segues into what I was going to
ask next, which is what is your Mantra?
I know early on after Hunter died.
I kind of was searching. Like I said in the last episode
for like, I'm not, he's not going to die in vain, I will
learn the lessons. Like, what are they?
And one of the things that I said to myself, constantly was
all is, well, all will be well, because I Have a very big faith
in what happens next. So, what about you guys?
Oh, come to me last. Yes, lazy day from my longtime
best friend. We were roommates in Los Angeles
for five years and she's kind of like all business, shall we?
Say she's not much of a person who can tap into her emotional
side, but she did send me something that really resonated.
And I thought I'm seeing a different side to her.
She sent me. That was a butterfly which is
always been my thing. And it said our journey of new
beginnings will always honor and rejoice the past.
So we've tried to bring right Oliver into the picture and
carry him with us but also look forward to new adventures and
not dwell on the past as well. I love that and I love that she
shared that with me because I thought, wow, she's deeper than
I thought. Sorry Cal she's not all busy.
Kathy Kathy is Got some, something else going on besides
business. But did you have a mantra Lacey?
I thought you said you did. That was it?
That was it ever?
Although I feel like because you also less a less dark less
often. Yeah, I thought it was when I
met when I met Kira, I remember her looking at me with these,
she has these Soulful eyes, but they just look super sad.
And it was just, it was killing me.
I think I saw you in the same way and I was like, and I didn't
know you at all or nor you, Kara, and I remember thinking,
The only thing I can depart I don't know that I told you that
day because it you were that was probably the first week he had
died a. Hey, I don't remember.
I don't say shit. We could ever seen you and yeah,
like oh she's beautiful. Well good thank you for coming.
You keep you keep some back again.
Thinking that I don't know what you said but I know I said it
during Kira. I stood less D+ Stark less often
because it stays with you you learn to live with it.
I hate when people say what are you going to get over it?
Or they will get over it. No you don't get over it.
You get Through it. Everybody get over it right,
it's less deep. Meaning, if I go there and I
have a moment, I allow myself to do it.
Now, I create the space and it usually sometimes is very
wistful. It just comes in and breezes in
for a few minutes and then it leaves and then I can move on
through my day and it's less dark.
I used to spend thousands of hours in the bathtub because my
son was so young. I didn't want him to see the
true darkness of it all, and I'm sure you guys can relate to that
because you had little As well, you don't want them to see the
real dark stuff but you do want them to see that you can recover
evening. They want to grieve and recover
exact, but the real dark stuff and then less often like now
it's less often, which I'm so grateful for because I thought
back when we were going to do this podcast, I remember
thinking. I don't think I could go back
and do that again. It's exhausting.
I still am not sure how we all did it.
I don't Don't, it's just a perfect example of you, don't
you just do you just do? Yeah, I looked at my sweet son's
eyes. I think that's what did it
actually. If it weren't for him, I don't
think I would have cared. I thought I brought him here.
I've got to make sure he's going to be okay.
And that's also a part of Oliver.
You know, so you want to honor them.
I thought we weren't going to do this.
No, dude, we cry, we laugh. We drink.
We like to take a sip of hot flashes.
We do it all here at your whistle wet, your whistle.
All right Hollywood, about you, Well, I don't have a definite
Mantra. I mean, maybe have a lot of them
and I don't know, I think it my kids age and Getting them
through, getting myself through. I was like, I'm just going to
get through the day. And people would ask me, what
are you doing, what did you know, whatever.
The question might be. And I'm like, I'm just getting
through the day. I think that's a good one is,
especially in the beginning because anything else is so
overwhelming and sad that all you can focus on.
Is this moment that day like yeah I'm just going to get
through this, still have days. Like I have one.
Task might as an app, I have a task, it's a bad, it's like
maybe it's a workout, maybe it's Costco, maybe it's an email to
like one of my kids teachers and I'm like okay this is just my
because I'm still like Holly from those dark darker days,
that was how I got by. And so I still have moments
where I go back to that little handbook and I just say, just
get this one thing done. Yeah, for this like three thing
now, like, My youngest is. A junior and everybody's talking
college and it's like oh what's he thinking?
I'm like we're just trying to get through the day high school.
Yeah we're gonna pass this semester and we're gonna rock
it. I mean I kind of feel like that
and that way it is a blessing because it's just staying in the
moment instead of going so far ahead like everybody does like
I'm ready for my kid to get out of high school.
He's gonna go to college, he's gonna work and everything is
everything. Is, I'm in more in the moment
you thinking more in the moment only.
I am because of it, yes, for sure.
I specially think in the beginning people give you that
like first five, six months where they're like we're going
to leave you alone. Then people call up in there.
Like what are you doing? Like I'm really doing with your
life. What do you do all day?
Oh yeah. What do you do?
All day just got Casimir like yeah you have to live in the
moment because otherwise you're like if only I would have done
this I wish I would have said this.
I wish this would have happened. Oh, now he's not going to be
here for that. Now he's going to miss this if
you can just focus on the day. Well and I just want to say,
Every Toby always said we would be on vacation and I'd be like,
what are we going to do next? He's like, can't you just live
in the moment? Not interesting.
I love that he was trying to teach you even back then.
Yeah. It also teaches you boundaries
to you like people all want to know what you're going to do
next or if you're going to be working, or if you're a man, I'm
just like you said, just getting through, if you're going to
move, if you're going to stay in Austin, if you what are you
going to do, what are you? I mean, there's so much
expectation that's still there. There.
When you're just saying, hey look, I am now 50% capacity.
Mmm, I'm down a man, literally. Yeah, so, why am I after Toby
died, like I don't know what that am I, I don't know how soon
after. Yeah, but I'm kind of gets
messed up. One of my sister's friends asked
if I was moving up to where you live homeless.
If I was moving, you know, even though I hadn't lived that quote
unquote home since before College.
Yeah, if I was going to move home and thankfully my sister
was like, why would she move here?
She lives in a license and she has lots of friends.
Yeah, now I think that's a good message to give to other widows.
It's like, you don't have to have it all figured out.
You don't have to make any big decisions.
Don't make any big decisions, honestly, I just get through the
day and also learn to be true to yourself.
I mean, little quick funny story.
I was at HEB yesterday, love my HEB, and I'm in the checkout
line. And the bad guy is so cute.
And young and fun. You can find tell me of your
husband. I was just there was something
very, but I think what I liked about him is that he was just
friendly and he was trying to engage a conversation with me.
And I felt kind of sorry for him.
I don't know if you guys do this but as he's bagging the
groceries, this he said, how are you doing?
I said, I'm just a little tired because it was like 5:00 and I'm
kind of grab the groceries, get home, cook up the meal and you
my sons coming home from school late and he said, well, maybe
your husband. Oh, I'll will cook the dinner
and I said, well, he's Six feet under, he's been dead for 11
years. I mean it just flew out of my
mouth and I'm like, oh God that poor guy just in that moment.
He was like oh God because I'm so sorry.
I said no I'm actually sorry I didn't mean to put you ill at
ease. I said, it's been a long time.
I said, I have to kind of laugh at it now.
Yeah, but the truth is, and this is something that I say all the
time. I don't, I don't I have widows
Tourette's. Okay.
I will just, I need Bill that's five years in to tell people
that I have a dead husband. Yeah, I 473.
Even the bar, even when people are flirting with me, I'll be
like, well, my husband died. I do, or the waiter will come up
and every like, but we're just calling that the W card of it,
though at the stretch lab. Does that work Hazard?
Yes, I work for me. My husband was a budgeter so he
wants to believe that knees away.
You because I just throw it down.
I'm like, well, I mean what is the Widow get?
Like, what do you have? A Widow's discount?
But I feel like first never a Widow's discount.
Listen, I've got everyone a couple of times you have got to
teach me that and and to here, I got flowers, one time from a
plumber flower. Oh, yes.
Oh, No, well, my Mantra was stay alive.
Yes. I was very, very injured and I
was just trying to stay alive for a long time.
It was just stay alive, and then it was get through every day and
then it was chill the fuck out for a while there.
I, you know, was over, I know Lacey had pointed this out.
We first met, I was over. Dimmed stimulated for a long
time. Just trying to handle everything
and over and over drive. And I that's when I did the
whole like, okay, I'm going to literally put like one thing on
a page for the day. Load of laundry.
I think I remember telling you to go take a nap.
I mean because she was spinning like a top.
She has three kids, I would 100 miles an hour and I would just I
mean you've been in hospital for how long I call it jail because
that's what it is. Yeah she doesn't even remember
know how long and you might going like 100 you were doing
more than I was doing and I was taking a nap.
So I thought maybe I've really had to slow it down.
I really had to clip expectations.
I used to be Be like before the car accident, I just had a very
full life, I had high expectations from my family, my
kids myself you know I had a lot of irons in the fire and just
winnowing it down to just the basics was very humbling and
still still trying to get used to it.
I think covid helped a lot of us with a lot of that.
It was kind of a nice moment for me to be - like oh I could just
slow down again, I'd I remember this.
This is good. This is this feels good.
This is productive to just kind of cut, cut things out and yeah,
you don't have to be everything to everyone.
You have to put yourself on the list and also none of it
matters. I mean if you're in a depression
and you say that then that can be harmful but if you are living
life present and just day-to-day it's like most of the stuff.
If that we're trying to get done and check off the list, it
doesn't even matter and guess what?
All of your plans and then life comes crashing in which is what
we all know, I had all kinds of plan that though, I haven't
stay, it's been over 11 years. So I thought when that happened,
I'd be able to take that with me all the time, but you forget you
do. So sometimes I get caught up in
the minutiae. I thought of all people, you
shouldn't because, you know, it doesn't matter.
But life comes creeping back in, that's why.
Saying I was healthier and the first year or two of hunters,
death versus now, because I was more connected to the trauma in
a way, you know. And and so I was very aware of,
you know what? I don't even care, like, that
doesn't even matter. So, anyway, and I felt like I
had permission, which maybe you did too in the beginning, I had
permission for a long time because I was in and out of
surgeries, and I was just trying to get well, and I was trying to
get my daughter. Daughter.
Well he was also injured and I had a lot of I mean I was able
to just check out and people didn't they weren't looking for
the thank you. Note or the response, right?
Don't get him. Thank you, brother.
Thank you. That's all episode.
I got my mom wrote all the thank.
You know, my mother wanted me to do.
Oh no, I just want to say thank you to everybody that's
everything for me. I did not.
Because I was. And by the way, no one fucking
cares about the thank. You know, what they do?
They're not a friend of exactly. Then I you don't deserve a.
Thank you note. After you actually want one, we
had them all printed up but I worked two of them and I said
you do them. Because yeah, that was a that
was a big fight. I think I lost Southern away,
others. It's a southern way.
You're supposed to write. Thank you - gracious and I
thought, my husband just died at the age of 38 suddenly and
unexpectedly. Lee.
If this friend of mine expects a thank you note.
They're not a friend of mine for a exactly that.
I that is all hardly agree and I think people need to embrace
that and Society. It's like the last thing you
want to be doing when you are going through.
Trauma is trying to remember who did what when brought them on?
Whoever tells you anything you need to write a.
Thank you, note tell them. No I do.
I do I say do not write me at thinking I found myself thinking
people when they are Opportunity arose.
Like if I saw them if there was a moment where I could just say,
oh my gosh, I remember you were there for Karis or you were
there for me or you helped pennies more than but there
wasn't any, I mean, in my circumstance, it was just all
physical therapy and surgery. So there wasn't any writing
anything. I'm gonna be permission.
None of you has to write me a thank-you note, I'm going to
give permission to everyone, that's listening to things, you
know, with a full heart, nothing else out of this.
Podcast, I don't care if you're a southerner.
All right, from the north. Wow, you might get it.
You just have like, thank, you know, if you're in trauma, if
something horrible happened to you and you're on a little
train, a thank, you know, needed her.
I can thank you, note, if you want to help help, if you don't
find, but don't be helping for the, thank you.
Exactly, exactly. Not, I think that's a perfect
way to end this episode to be helping.
You're going to To know us better over the next few
episodes. We are going to start sharing
our individual stories. In the meantime, if you want to
go to Instagram and follow us on at every Widow, thing for
updates and inspiring content, we would love for you to do
that. Drop us a DM.
If you have questions or you have a certain topic that you
would like for us to discuss on the next podcast, we would love
to be there for you. That's the whole purpose here.
We thank you so much and strive and thrive.
Drive. That's right.
Ben Thrive. Thank you.
Bye.