1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,600 Now we continue with the kids of every widow thing in Part 2. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,160 Well, I'm Sally Rogers. I am thrilled to be here today, 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:14,280 but let's introduce ourselves. I'm Acelyn, I am Kira's oldest 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:19,320 daughter and I'm 20 and I go to the University of Texas at 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,240 Austin. Hi, I'm Thomas. 6 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:24,360 I'm Kira's only son. I'm 18 and I go to the 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,680 University of Virginia in Charlottesville. 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,000 I'm brighter. I'm 19 and I go to Northeastern 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,400 University in Boston I. Hate your mom. 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,040 Lacey. I'm Zach. 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,720 I'm 18, I'm a senior at Saint Michael's Academy and I'm 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,120 Holly's youngest son. I'm Gabe. 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,680 I'm Holly's oldest son. I'm 21 and I'm at Texas 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,720 Christian University. Let's go back to what did people 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,720 couple two-part question. What did people say to you that 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,960 irritated you at that time? And also what, what were some of 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,680 the things that were messed up that you know that people did 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,160 for you afterward, or things that you thought like where they 19 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,320 shouldn't have been done? Just back to like the Are you 20 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:11,840 OK? Is everything OK? 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,960 I'm like random people asking me. 22 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:16,840 I'm like, yeah, like, yeah. And I like when. 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,240 I'm fine. People ask me things and I'm 24 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,640 obviously not going to, I'm not obviously not going to open up 25 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:23,200 to them. It's. 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,120 Not going to confide in you, I've talked. 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,360 To you Yeah and I just have to give the same like it's fine 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,560 like two word response every time. 29 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,200 What would you want them to ask you, or what would you want them 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,560 to say to you, especially after being older, but you know, after 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,280 your parents died what what was? Don't say anything. 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,160 Just like acts like let's be in the present moment. 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,760 I think like being there instead of like talking about it was 34 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,200 better not like acting like nothing happened in the sense 35 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,760 like do you want to hang out? Do you want to, you know, do you 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,680 need a ride to the soccer game? Like, maybe it's not necessarily 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,000 directly. Like, I know that this just 38 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,240 happened to you and you might not have somebody to give you a 39 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,480 ride more just like. Just people being. 40 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,280 Nice. Yeah, Being nice. 41 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,360 That's what I like. Yeah, like when my my friends 42 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:12,840 were around, it was like the same thing. 43 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,040 It was like, yeah, like they knew and they said whatever at 44 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,600 first, but then after that it was just like we just hung out 45 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,840 like normal. Yeah, like my good friends know 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,600 like how to treat or they knew how to treat me like in the 47 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,400 situation so. They hear the same, basically. 48 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,800 Yeah, I mean, you would talk about it. 49 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,200 I mean, I'd have talked about it if I needed to, but it's not 50 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:40,720 like they're asking me about it. One thing I want people to know 51 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,040 when they're like listening to the podcast is that I am still a 52 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,120 person, just like you. I have different problems than 53 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:49,560 you do. So please do not treat me any 54 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,560 different. Like as if I was like, don't 55 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,880 feel like pity for me. I I go through things, you go 56 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,960 through things, We're no different. 57 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,240 And I mean, that's the main reason why I switched schools. 58 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,720 Everyone just, like, acted weird to me, like teachers, students. 59 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:05,840 They give me like weird books sometimes. 60 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,040 And I I genuinely do not like special attention, just like 61 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,600 treat me like a normal person and just live on with your life. 62 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,040 And I think that's the best way of going through it. 63 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,840 It's not my identity. I'm just just like you. 64 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,120 So I guess be there like as a nice person, like what they 65 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,680 said, but don't make that who I am. 66 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,920 Don't pity you, yeah. I agree with that, Mike. 67 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,200 Be there and if I if I really need to talk about it, I'll find 68 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,200 someone to talk about it with. But like, aside from that, it's 69 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,040 like we're all the same. You can't be like, my savior or 70 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,200 something. Like, you know, I'll be there 71 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,440 for you. Like I'm going to come in and 72 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,280 save you for this problem. Like that's not how that works. 73 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,920 This was really helpful to people listening because then 74 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,200 you think it's people. One of you said it. 75 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,360 They feel like they got to say something and generally that's 76 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,000 when something stupid comes out, like Kevin needed another Angel 77 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,320 or God doesn't give you more than you can handle. 78 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,920 They always, I I remember at like, I think the memorial, 79 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,000 somebody was like, you know, that this wasn't God's plan. 80 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,240 And I'm like, well, no shit. I don't think I'm like, I don't 81 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,160 think that he was like, I want to, you know, have your dad die. 82 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:14,600 There's a dark. Way I. 83 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,040 Mean. I remember I was, that was day 84 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,320 was super foggy the memorial. But I remember hearing that said 85 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,120 to me, I almost sort of chuckled to myself like I was like well, 86 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:30,160 yeah, obviously. And I think that that like, you 87 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,120 know, heaven gained another Angel or something like in the 88 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,120 in this, it's obvious in the sense that like, yes, he would 89 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,960 like yes. And you don't have to say that 90 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,280 and you don't have to acknowledge that that is what 91 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:45,360 happened. And it's like weird for you to 92 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,640 have some like, cliche response. But I think like kind of going 93 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,280 back to what Ryder said, like I feel like at my school, at least 94 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,200 since I was in middle school, people didn't really give a 95 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,400 fuck. Like, they kind of just, I mean 96 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,800 we were like 11:00 and 12:00. They were just doing their own 97 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,520 thing and most of my friends knew and I think the difference 98 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,320 was that the school was really supportive and I do think and 99 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,880 they did treat us differently that first year at least. 100 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,760 And I think that was honestly very helpful because that was 101 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:22,080 more like logistic wise. But I did, you know, again, we 102 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,040 were in middle school, so there were kids that were not, like, 103 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,400 necessarily rude on purpose. But I had, you know, girls be 104 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,000 like, oh, she's using her dad's death for attention. 105 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,400 Definitely not like. There was an easier way to get 106 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,560 attention, I am sure right and. So it's just, and it's like I 107 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,120 also never talked about it. It was just something she'd 108 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,120 found out. And so, you know, I I remember 109 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,440 kind of like thinking back on that and being like, wow, I 110 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,080 mean, we were all just kids, you know? 111 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,640 We were just kids. I didn't, I didn't know how to 112 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,000 react. I didn't know what to do and 113 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,160 neither did they, you know, and that's just one of those things. 114 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,440 But and kind of appreciate it in that sense that since a lot of 115 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,680 people didn't know how to react, no one did anything. 116 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,920 Which I was like, OK, good, good for me. 117 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Like I won't do anything either then, you know? 118 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,760 Not for me, but the times I think I've been most helpful, 119 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,600 when I go to the person who's grieving, I'm like, well, this 120 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,800 sucks. You lost, you know your husband 121 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,480 or you lost your dad. Helpman's a lot better than 122 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,160 like. I'm so sorry. 123 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,200 Like I'm like especially like at the memorial and you got people 124 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,160 go out of their way to talk to me. 125 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,640 I'm like, I don't know who you are. 126 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:28,560 I hate. I hate. 127 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,440 I never knew how to respond when people said I'm like, I'm so 128 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,120 sorry. Like, I'm just like, yeah, it's. 129 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,640 OK. Because you do find yourself 130 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,040 trying to comfort other people in your own grief. 131 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,000 If they would just say that sucks and you can go, yeah, it 132 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,160 does and you can cuss a little and whatever, then that's the 133 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,720 appropriate response because what are they going to say 134 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,320 that's going to make you feel better? 135 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,000 The problem is they don't, I guess, see our views on things. 136 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,560 They have been through it. So their response will likely 137 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,160 just be like, oh, you're in our prayers. 138 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,200 And like, I'm sorry, but your prayers, your prayers ain't 139 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,320 going to bring them back, buddy. So it's not going to help. 140 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,760 But I understand what they're coming from and that they're 141 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,560 trying to be nice, you know, they're trying to be supportive, 142 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,360 but they don't know how to. And that's where the issue comes 143 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:13,680 from. It's like they don't know, I 144 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,760 guess, the appropriate way to respond to something like that. 145 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,280 I was going to say I feel like you can always tell if someone's 146 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:20,960 been through a similar thing or not. 147 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,760 Yeah, talk to me about that. Don't know how to like approach 148 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,480 you. I like I can tell when certain 149 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,440 people have or like. Like I have a few other friends 150 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,040 who have had like similar situations and I can just like 151 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,640 when we interact even if we're not that close. 152 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,720 I can like sometimes you can just tell they have similar 153 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,720 perspective on. Yeah. 154 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,400 How they carry themselves. You can tell that they have a 155 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,400 similar perspective. That's kind of what it is. 156 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,320 And for me, I always think it has made my life perspective 157 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,360 more realistic. And I almost feel like in going 158 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,680 to college now and like meeting new people, that I've gravitated 159 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,200 towards people who also have a very realistic and straight up 160 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,960 perspective of life because they've also gone through 161 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,840 something that made life look raw and. 162 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,560 Well, you grow. You're forced to grow up for one 163 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,600 thing, whether you want to or not, right? 164 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,880 Talk to me about that, Gabe. I mean, your life changed 165 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,120 instantly. Did it change you? 166 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Did you feel like you had to grow up pretty fast? 167 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,040 I don't know. I feel like it. 168 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,920 Just I definitely think it makes me more realistic. 169 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,200 I think you it makes you more mature almost. 170 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,000 I think the maturity thing, I resonate with that because I 171 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,520 always felt maybe like a little more grown up than some of the 172 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,919 kids around me. Not like significantly, but, and 173 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:41,679 it wasn't even like across the board. 174 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,040 But sometimes some people would like behave in ways that I 175 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,400 didn't really imagine myself doing. 176 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,600 And I was like, that's kind of childish and I feel like just 177 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,120 like having it happen to you. You kind of got awareness. 178 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,920 And I always felt sometimes more aware about certain situations, 179 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,040 especially in school, like especially like middle school 180 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,360 boys that do like dumb stuff. And like I definitely did too. 181 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,760 But sometimes I would see stuff that I'm like, that's just, I 182 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:07,240 don't even understand that. And then I always felt myself, I 183 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,080 know maybe like analyzing the kids my age a little bit more 184 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,600 and taking a step back and trying to be like less involved, 185 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,560 so. You mean just sort of observing 186 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,200 them rather than participating? Yeah, I mean, I didn't always 187 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,240 want to like be participated because I wasn't like super 188 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,120 extroverted to. But it just felt like, I don't 189 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,240 know, because I didn't go through middle school, like 190 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,080 without having my father pass away. 191 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,200 I don't know if it would have been any different like a lot of 192 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,760 these kids had had quote UN quote, like perfect lives Like 193 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,200 nothing really that bad had happened. 194 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,720 And I feel like either witnessing some sort of 195 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,960 traumatic event or having to do, having to take on a 196 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,200 responsibility, like having to grow up quickly that can make 197 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,760 you just like look at life differently. 198 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,080 I I agree with the like analyzing when you said you're 199 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,600 analyzing people because I feel like after everything happened, 200 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,560 I was a lot more selective with who I was friends with. 201 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,320 I don't know. It just made me like. 202 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,480 Why do you think you were more selective? 203 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,800 Who's actually going to be there for me and, like, who I can talk 204 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,320 to about things? Yeah, I think I just stopped 205 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,560 caring as much, like if I had a bad day or whatever, Not that I 206 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:16,840 would think about the accident or anything, but just my 207 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,200 perspective. I'd be like, like, oh, it's just 208 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,880 it's like it's one thing or it's like it's one bad grade. 209 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,120 Like my life's pretty good so I'm I'm move. 210 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,600 On it's like not that deep anymore, because you know what 211 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:27,960 like is actually. Exactly. 212 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,040 And then especially when, like, you'd have other friends, like, 213 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,480 complain to you about like, the littlest thing. 214 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,480 I'm like like you have the right to be to complain about it. 215 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:38,880 But I'm like it's not the big deal. 216 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,280 Like it's like it's today. Tomorrow's another day. 217 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,320 I. Feel like people getting like 218 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,960 really petty things are offended by everything and I'm just like, 219 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,240 honestly, I'm just not really affected by it. 220 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,880 I feel like. Also kids my age just think 221 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,680 they're invincible. We'll do some, like really 222 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:56,320 stupid stuff. Like, I'm always thinking I'm I 223 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,240 like, like super grown up for my age. 224 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,760 Where am I? Just like, you know, not in 225 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,320 touch with people my age because like, I see them do some really 226 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,560 stupid stuff and just be like, why are you doing that? 227 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,760 You feel more like rational. Someone you feel more rational? 228 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,560 Exactly. More grounded. 229 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,280 More grounded. And I'm like, did I grow up too 230 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,720 fast? Like, am I not enjoying it? 231 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:21,360 But you know, I still do things that I did as a kid, but like, I 232 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,320 don't do things that I could see as, like, harmful to myself. 233 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,120 My sense talking to all of you, is there's a there's this 234 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,920 underlying sense of responsibility to not only to 235 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,320 yourselves but to your families. I, you know, and I think that's 236 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,080 something I should I never wanted to mess up or do anything 237 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,800 that was going to cause my mom any more sadness or grief. 238 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,360 You know, I didn't want to cause any more grief in my family, 239 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,520 which also is a burden to carry. Do you feel that ever? 240 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,720 I mean, I think that for me, like part of the, I'm sure that 241 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,200 a lot of older siblings can relate to this. 242 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,920 But part of the burden that I carried being the oldest was 243 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,280 that I almost feel like my relationship with my mom changed 244 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,480 a little bit because I started to hold space for her as like 245 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,080 almost a Co parent dynamic. And I feel like I started to do 246 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,640 a lot more around the house and she kind of would talk to me 247 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,480 about my siblings. Or like, you know, I I just felt 248 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,560 kind of the walls came down in that child parent relationship 249 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:32,200 to a certain extent. And I definitely wanted to be 250 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,880 strong for her too, because I knew that she was kind of 251 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,760 counting on me and that our dynamic had shifted a little 252 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,160 bit. Interesting. 253 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:41,640 Yeah. What about you, Gabe? 254 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,800 Oldest. I don't know. 255 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,440 I think it's like can't get 2 perspectives on certain things 256 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,520 and like there's no ask your dad. 257 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,480 There's no it's like you have to. 258 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,520 It's it's more predictable like and you like you said like the 259 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,280 walls get breaking down. Like you kind of know, kind of 260 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,000 know more, you know what she's going to say at certain things, 261 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,360 what you have to do, that sort of thing. 262 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,320 Yeah, we just, we actually just had a conversation with our mom 263 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,800 a couple days ago about how my dad really didn't like us 264 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,880 watching like SpongeBob or like Disney Channel or anything like 265 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,400 that. And my mom kind of teased and 266 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,160 she was like, well, after he died, you guys can watch 267 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,360 whatever you want. And we were like, yeah, 'cause 268 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,640 like it again, like you said, like, it's not two parents, it's 269 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,280 not one, and it's the one parent's perspective. 270 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,840 And so things shift 'cause that's one person's opinions, 271 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,320 one person's advice, one person's you know, one person to 272 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,040 approve, And it's definitely different. 273 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,360 Yeah, I was a very different kid when I was younger. 274 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,040 Like I was off the walls crazy and like just. 275 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,840 I was just like always doing something very energetic. 276 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,640 And people probably found me really annoying because I go on 277 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,680 and on talking about stuff they would not interested in, 278 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,280 especially video games. They really did not want to hear 279 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,080 it. But as all this stuff happened, 280 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,520 I felt that it became more like reserved as a person. 281 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,200 Because if I stayed that way, it'd be a lot more trouble for 282 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,760 my mom. And I don't know whether this is 283 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,000 true, but I sort of became more, less and less like I guess 284 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,560 problematic in what you might think that I wouldn't require as 285 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,400 much energy to like, you know, have to handle. 286 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,600 And it wasn't like a Co parent thing or anything like that. 287 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,920 I just sort of made myself more reserved in that sense. 288 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,480 Interesting. You left your, your, your. 289 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,320 You become more independent. Really is what happens to all 290 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,440 of. You probably did. 291 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,240 There's less feeling of like, I'm going to throw a tantrum 292 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,840 about not getting this Christmas present because there's things 293 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,600 that are bigger than that, yeah. Like as a kid, you just don't 294 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,240 want to cause any more issues because then it it's like, well, 295 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,680 they're already insanely busy, you have no idea what's going on 296 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,040 and now you're causing trouble. How do you feel if your if your 297 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,960 dad's had lived, how would you be a different person? 298 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,840 Or would you be? Do you? 299 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,000 What do you think he would be more carefree? 300 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,920 Would you be you know what? What do you think would be 301 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,720 different? I think maybe my whole life 302 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,800 would be different just based on the fact that like, I don't 303 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,880 know, butterfly effects and every small change. 304 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,160 And I can't really imagine it because I'm not going to be able 305 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,240 to see my life like that. But I think that this event when 306 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,160 I was a kid contributed heavily to like, who I am now and a lot 307 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,360 of the decisions I made. So I just know for a fact my 308 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,280 life would be different. I don't know exactly how, but I 309 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,840 feel like I would be. I try and think on like the 310 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,240 bright side of it, and I think that my dad dying was benefit 311 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,840 was like beneficial to my character in a way. 312 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,800 So I feel like I might be maybe less mature and like respectful 313 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,160 or whatever, if he lived just on the fact that like my, I would 314 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,720 have a different perspective and I'd be more like the people who 315 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,280 hadn't really been through something like that. 316 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,560 I definitely pride myself on like the maturity and this 317 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,440 respectfulness and being independent and things like 318 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,160 that. And I think that those are some 319 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:00,680 of the bright sides that you can look at. 320 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,320 You know, kind of coming out of one of these experiences and 321 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,080 like learning stuff from it, which I think is the most 322 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,960 important part of the grief process, is learning about 323 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,520 yourself through it also and learning about life. 324 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,280 It definitely would have been different because it's again, 325 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:19,400 it's having two perspectives versus one, having two, two sets 326 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,880 of rules versus one and things like that. 327 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,880 And I know that there were a lot of things that my dad did, did 328 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,400 as a parent that we definitely or have not experienced. 329 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,000 I remember specifically, like I when I was really little, he 330 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,760 made some joke about me, like not dating until I was 30. 331 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,240 And then I had like a quote UN quote boyfriend in middle 332 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,640 school. And I feel like that that 333 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,000 wouldn't have happened if he was, yeah, things like that, 334 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,920 like little stuff. It just would change your 335 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,280 experiences. Yeah, one of the things that I 336 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,360 thought of is like, I myself and I guess more emotional as a 337 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,280 person. Like I I'm better understanding 338 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,320 what people are going through. And weirdly enough I thought of 339 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,040 this like really kind of a messed up thought and it's like, 340 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,720 would I be the same person if my father kind of like what Thomas 341 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:07,680 said? I sort of changed, but am I 342 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,280 better off that he's gone now? And which is a really thing that 343 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,000 made me think for a moment, because I would not be the same 344 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,440 person I am today, and a lot of things would be very different 345 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,680 in the way my life is gone. Like probably I wouldn't have 346 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,480 changed schools, gone to a different high school, gone to a 347 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,640 different college. I would not be on the same path 348 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,480 I am right now And I like my life right now, So it's kind of 349 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,840 weird for me to say. I agree with that because, like, 350 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,800 there's so many different perspectives on it, like that 351 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,560 you don't know what path you'd like really be in right now if 352 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,320 you were still here. But like, I'm also pretty happy 353 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,920 with the good that's came out of it and like how it's tough and 354 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,520 me as a person. And how it brings your family 355 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,160 together too. I feel like we always say or my 356 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,080 mom always says Lyman's first, even when we used to fight and 357 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,480 like if we would get other friends involved or something. 358 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,160 She was like, you have to put Lyman's first. 359 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,800 And I always appreciated that message coming out of it, kind 360 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,600 of. Which you'll carry into your 361 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,560 your family, Yeah, yeah. But family is the most important 362 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,080 thing, yeah. Yeah, I think it is weird 363 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,520 thinking about how it would have been, but there's like positives 364 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,760 that come out of it. Just like I'm feel like I'm a 365 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,320 lot more understanding of a person. 366 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,080 And like, I'm good at like listening. 367 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,400 If people have problems, like, I don't know, like you all were 368 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,280 saying, it's definitely odd because I like the way my life's 369 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,400 going right now. So I got to think about how it 370 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,440 would be. Something that I learned after 371 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,080 the accident was that my dad had gotten offered a job back in New 372 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,920 York and my family was considering moving back to New 373 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,480 York before it happened. And I think, I'm not exactly 374 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,160 sure, but at the time that he had passed, I don't think we've 375 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,760 been in Austin for very long, but we know we had. 376 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,920 We haven't moved. Yeah, we haven't moved since 377 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,200 then. It's been like 12 years and now 378 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,520 I go to college here and it's so the city is near and dear to me 379 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,520 now, but maybe it wouldn't have been as much if we had moved and 380 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,760 you know, just weird things like that. 381 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,280 Sounds like, and maybe I'm reading this wrong, that most of 382 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,000 you or all of you are doing pretty great. 383 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,800 Yeah, I'm kind of glad. I don't know that I guess like 384 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,720 separate reality, because then you'd start comparing like both 385 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,800 realities. And I mean, if you're happy with 386 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,800 your life right now, I as messed up as it sounds, I'm happy with 387 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,080 how it's everything's gone. What would you tell a kid your 388 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,480 age when it happened, when you lost your dad? 389 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,760 What advice would you give them? I would say to someone kind of 390 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:43,640 my age like don't beat yourself up for not feeling about it the 391 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,040 way that you feel like you're supposed to or the way that 392 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,640 maybe somebody else's. Because I know a lot of people 393 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,640 were very sad for me, but I didn't want to feel sad in that 394 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,000 moment. And you know, people all around 395 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,200 you were just sad and the memorial sad and everything's 396 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,760 like dark and you just want to feel normal. 397 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,080 And I think that that should be normalized in the sense that 398 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,400 I've done a lot of work as I've gotten older through working 399 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,760 through my grief. And you don't necessarily have 400 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,240 to work through it when you're 6911 etcetera, because that's 401 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,440 not, that's not something that a six, 911 year old is supposed to 402 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,800 go through or a 14 year old or a 16 year old. 403 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,000 But again, like, I think give yourself time to readjust and 404 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,360 then if if you're struggling with like working through those 405 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:34,000 feelings, then acknowledge that. But if you're not and you're not 406 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,280 feeling that struggle right when it happens that that's normal 407 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,000 and that doesn't. I think I felt guilty partly 408 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,920 that I wasn't completely heartbroken and then I wasn't 409 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,520 like a complete mess. And it's OK to know that that 410 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,080 doesn't have to be the case. Even though, like everyone's 411 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,720 telling you and acting like the world is over, it's not. 412 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,240 And that's kind of part of learning that like life goes on 413 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,120 and being rational and realistic. 414 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,680 I think in my opinion, I've I've thought about this before, but I 415 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,520 don't really believe that someone can get truly over 416 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,360 something, especially a loss of someone that close to you. 417 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,440 So what I kind of learned in years recently, like the last 418 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,280 few years, is I've been trying to grow with it rather than past 419 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,520 it because it is still a part of you. 420 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,360 Like I don't. I don't let it shave my 421 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:24,280 identity, but I try to be aware of and conscious of what it's 422 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,040 done for me. So I think that's really 423 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,240 important at the start is there's nothing really you can 424 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,600 do. And like Eisen said, you can't 425 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,760 beat yourself up about the way you feel or what you do after 426 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,960 that because you're going to be a little bit irrational. 427 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,440 And I think the thing that was most important for me was just 428 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,280 trying to stay aware that time will help and that, you know, I 429 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,200 just need to make the best of my situation and try to look past 430 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,560 it, but still, like, keep it with you. 431 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,560 Don't push it out completely because when you push it out 432 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,040 that's when it causes other problems of like a motion build 433 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,640 up or you know you ignore it completely and then that can 434 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,560 happen and you can block out like memories from that time too 435 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,080 if you try and like push away. Yeah, Thomas made a great point. 436 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,560 It should be not your focus of your life, but it should still 437 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,560 be a part of your life. Like I actually have his watch 438 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,400 on my wrist. I I usually carry it around when 439 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,640 I was in university and I kind of seem like a a jerk going 440 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,120 around with a really expensive watch. 441 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,080 But it's sort of a thing that, like, I keep it as a reminder, 442 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,720 but it's not like the focus of my life. 443 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,600 It's like it's always there, but it's not what I always think 444 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,600 about. Like I'll go like many days not 445 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,760 thinking about it. And if I were going to say it to 446 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,680 someone who had just this issue and kind of like going back on 447 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,520 the thing about what people say in response to it is that 448 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,320 sometimes they're always like, oh, I feel so sorry. 449 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,560 It's just a huge reminder of what had just happened. 450 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,600 It's like, thanks for reminding me, but just know that people 451 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,720 are still looking out for you and they're not trying to, like, 452 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,200 scare you or like, push you away or anything. 453 00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,960 They just don't know how to respond. 454 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,520 And just take it with a grain of salt and how they respond with 455 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,640 that and keep being yourself. If you're still a kid, you 456 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,120 should still try and be a kid. Don't let this, I guess, ruin 457 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,760 your childhood for you. I agree with that, especially 458 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:20,080 the like knowing who is trying to help you during that time and 459 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,320 like remember who's actually there for you. 460 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,560 And I think that's the biggest piece of advice I would give 461 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,400 someone. Yeah, I would say not to not 462 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,760 don't drown it out, but don't let it take over, because at the 463 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,120 end of the day, it's like small, you know, it's just one part of 464 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,360 your life. There's all these other parts. 465 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:41,520 It's going to get better, but everything is with time. 466 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,880 Well, I hear the the common theme or one of the common 467 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,000 themes is don't lose your your childhood, don't lose your 468 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,360 innocence in all of this because it's easy. 469 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,960 It would be easy to do that, but you just all seem to have kept 470 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,960 that in perspective and just wanted to be kids, just wanted 471 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,560 to be normal kids. After that, even though we're 472 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,200 decades apart, this is really, this is really comforting and 473 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,000 healing for me to hear you guys talk. 474 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,160 I think that like any, any way that it happened, anytime that 475 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,920 it happened, like everybody can relate, no matter how kind of 476 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,720 like different the specific experience was, right. 477 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,240 Like even though it happened you like a while ago, like Thomas 478 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,240 said, doesn't mean like you stop grieving and it doesn't mean it 479 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,600 stops the process. It's like a lifetime thing. 480 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,840 It's interesting. I have a painting of my father 481 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,880 that a friend of mine had done for me, and it's my father and 482 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,560 me. On my second birthday, she found 483 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,920 a picture of us. It's this beautiful painting 484 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,120 that was done by by an artist here in Austin. 485 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,040 And I look at it every day when I go to bed because it's right 486 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,080 when I walk into my bedroom, it's on the wall next to my 487 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,840 bedroom door and it's that keeping him with me always. 488 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,960 But I don't think I'm not crying or, you know, I'm not sad, but I 489 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,200 I'll touch it every night before I go to bed, you know, just just 490 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,360 kind of say, hey, you know, you're always with me. 491 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,040 Yeah, I think remembering that it doesn't have to be sad too, 492 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,040 that it doesn't have to all be like, you know, boohoo, that was 493 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,840 horrible. Like, yes, it was. 494 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,400 But, you know, he wasn't. Yeah. 495 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,280 And like, life, life is not horrible now. 496 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,360 And you know, like I always think, you know, if he would be 497 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,960 proud of me in this moment or if he would be happy for me in this 498 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,920 moment, then I don't need to be sad about him not being here for 499 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,800 it, if that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. 500 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,320 Anything you guys want to add? Well, I think it's always good 501 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,000 to not idealize the parent who's passed away. 502 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,800 And sort of, I mean, we already brought up stuff about this like 503 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,160 their little quirks and like what they do. 504 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,920 It's always good to keep them kind of human because if we are 505 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,200 always just thinking about him as like an ideal perspective, 506 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,240 sometimes I can make you think like, am I not living up to this 507 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,320 parent or something like that? And I think that's always good 508 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,680 to keep in perspective that they were also human too. 509 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,000 So they're not like some sort of perfect person that just was 510 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,160 taken away unfairly. I could talk to you all night 511 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,600 and feel like I have 5 new best friends, and I mean that 512 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,440 sincerely. It's really lovely to talk to 513 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:08,720 you guys.