Now we continue with the kids of every widow thing in Part 2.
Well, I'm Sally Rogers. I am thrilled to be here today,
but let's introduce ourselves. I'm Acelyn, I am Kira's oldest
daughter and I'm 20 and I go to the University of Texas at
Austin. Hi, I'm Thomas.
I'm Kira's only son. I'm 18 and I go to the
University of Virginia in Charlottesville.
I'm brighter. I'm 19 and I go to Northeastern
University in Boston I. Hate your mom.
Lacey. I'm Zach.
I'm 18, I'm a senior at Saint Michael's Academy and I'm
Holly's youngest son. I'm Gabe.
I'm Holly's oldest son. I'm 21 and I'm at Texas
Christian University. Let's go back to what did people
couple two-part question. What did people say to you that
irritated you at that time? And also what, what were some of
the things that were messed up that you know that people did
for you afterward, or things that you thought like where they
shouldn't have been done? Just back to like the Are you
OK? Is everything OK?
I'm like random people asking me.
I'm like, yeah, like, yeah. And I like when.
I'm fine. People ask me things and I'm
obviously not going to, I'm not obviously not going to open up
to them. It's.
Not going to confide in you, I've talked.
To you Yeah and I just have to give the same like it's fine
like two word response every time.
What would you want them to ask you, or what would you want them
to say to you, especially after being older, but you know, after
your parents died what what was? Don't say anything.
Just like acts like let's be in the present moment.
I think like being there instead of like talking about it was
better not like acting like nothing happened in the sense
like do you want to hang out? Do you want to, you know, do you
need a ride to the soccer game? Like, maybe it's not necessarily
directly. Like, I know that this just
happened to you and you might not have somebody to give you a
ride more just like. Just people being.
Nice. Yeah, Being nice.
That's what I like. Yeah, like when my my friends
were around, it was like the same thing.
It was like, yeah, like they knew and they said whatever at
first, but then after that it was just like we just hung out
like normal. Yeah, like my good friends know
like how to treat or they knew how to treat me like in the
situation so. They hear the same, basically.
Yeah, I mean, you would talk about it.
I mean, I'd have talked about it if I needed to, but it's not
like they're asking me about it. One thing I want people to know
when they're like listening to the podcast is that I am still a
person, just like you. I have different problems than
you do. So please do not treat me any
different. Like as if I was like, don't
feel like pity for me. I I go through things, you go
through things, We're no different.
And I mean, that's the main reason why I switched schools.
Everyone just, like, acted weird to me, like teachers, students.
They give me like weird books sometimes.
And I I genuinely do not like special attention, just like
treat me like a normal person and just live on with your life.
And I think that's the best way of going through it.
It's not my identity. I'm just just like you.
So I guess be there like as a nice person, like what they
said, but don't make that who I am.
Don't pity you, yeah. I agree with that, Mike.
Be there and if I if I really need to talk about it, I'll find
someone to talk about it with. But like, aside from that, it's
like we're all the same. You can't be like, my savior or
something. Like, you know, I'll be there
for you. Like I'm going to come in and
save you for this problem. Like that's not how that works.
This was really helpful to people listening because then
you think it's people. One of you said it.
They feel like they got to say something and generally that's
when something stupid comes out, like Kevin needed another Angel
or God doesn't give you more than you can handle.
They always, I I remember at like, I think the memorial,
somebody was like, you know, that this wasn't God's plan.
And I'm like, well, no shit. I don't think I'm like, I don't
think that he was like, I want to, you know, have your dad die.
There's a dark. Way I.
Mean. I remember I was, that was day
was super foggy the memorial. But I remember hearing that said
to me, I almost sort of chuckled to myself like I was like well,
yeah, obviously. And I think that that like, you
know, heaven gained another Angel or something like in the
in this, it's obvious in the sense that like, yes, he would
like yes. And you don't have to say that
and you don't have to acknowledge that that is what
happened. And it's like weird for you to
have some like, cliche response. But I think like kind of going
back to what Ryder said, like I feel like at my school, at least
since I was in middle school, people didn't really give a
fuck. Like, they kind of just, I mean
we were like 11:00 and 12:00. They were just doing their own
thing and most of my friends knew and I think the difference
was that the school was really supportive and I do think and
they did treat us differently that first year at least.
And I think that was honestly very helpful because that was
more like logistic wise. But I did, you know, again, we
were in middle school, so there were kids that were not, like,
necessarily rude on purpose. But I had, you know, girls be
like, oh, she's using her dad's death for attention.
Definitely not like. There was an easier way to get
attention, I am sure right and. So it's just, and it's like I
also never talked about it. It was just something she'd
found out. And so, you know, I I remember
kind of like thinking back on that and being like, wow, I
mean, we were all just kids, you know?
We were just kids. I didn't, I didn't know how to
react. I didn't know what to do and
neither did they, you know, and that's just one of those things.
But and kind of appreciate it in that sense that since a lot of
people didn't know how to react, no one did anything.
Which I was like, OK, good, good for me.
Like I won't do anything either then, you know?
Not for me, but the times I think I've been most helpful,
when I go to the person who's grieving, I'm like, well, this
sucks. You lost, you know your husband
or you lost your dad. Helpman's a lot better than
like. I'm so sorry.
Like I'm like especially like at the memorial and you got people
go out of their way to talk to me.
I'm like, I don't know who you are.
I hate. I hate.
I never knew how to respond when people said I'm like, I'm so
sorry. Like, I'm just like, yeah, it's.
OK. Because you do find yourself
trying to comfort other people in your own grief.
If they would just say that sucks and you can go, yeah, it
does and you can cuss a little and whatever, then that's the
appropriate response because what are they going to say
that's going to make you feel better?
The problem is they don't, I guess, see our views on things.
They have been through it. So their response will likely
just be like, oh, you're in our prayers.
And like, I'm sorry, but your prayers, your prayers ain't
going to bring them back, buddy. So it's not going to help.
But I understand what they're coming from and that they're
trying to be nice, you know, they're trying to be supportive,
but they don't know how to. And that's where the issue comes
from. It's like they don't know, I
guess, the appropriate way to respond to something like that.
I was going to say I feel like you can always tell if someone's
been through a similar thing or not.
Yeah, talk to me about that. Don't know how to like approach
you. I like I can tell when certain
people have or like. Like I have a few other friends
who have had like similar situations and I can just like
when we interact even if we're not that close.
I can like sometimes you can just tell they have similar
perspective on. Yeah.
How they carry themselves. You can tell that they have a
similar perspective. That's kind of what it is.
And for me, I always think it has made my life perspective
more realistic. And I almost feel like in going
to college now and like meeting new people, that I've gravitated
towards people who also have a very realistic and straight up
perspective of life because they've also gone through
something that made life look raw and.
Well, you grow. You're forced to grow up for one
thing, whether you want to or not, right?
Talk to me about that, Gabe. I mean, your life changed
instantly. Did it change you?
Did you feel like you had to grow up pretty fast?
I don't know. I feel like it.
Just I definitely think it makes me more realistic.
I think you it makes you more mature almost.
I think the maturity thing, I resonate with that because I
always felt maybe like a little more grown up than some of the
kids around me. Not like significantly, but, and
it wasn't even like across the board.
But sometimes some people would like behave in ways that I
didn't really imagine myself doing.
And I was like, that's kind of childish and I feel like just
like having it happen to you. You kind of got awareness.
And I always felt sometimes more aware about certain situations,
especially in school, like especially like middle school
boys that do like dumb stuff. And like I definitely did too.
But sometimes I would see stuff that I'm like, that's just, I
don't even understand that. And then I always felt myself, I
know maybe like analyzing the kids my age a little bit more
and taking a step back and trying to be like less involved,
so. You mean just sort of observing
them rather than participating? Yeah, I mean, I didn't always
want to like be participated because I wasn't like super
extroverted to. But it just felt like, I don't
know, because I didn't go through middle school, like
without having my father pass away.
I don't know if it would have been any different like a lot of
these kids had had quote UN quote, like perfect lives Like
nothing really that bad had happened.
And I feel like either witnessing some sort of
traumatic event or having to do, having to take on a
responsibility, like having to grow up quickly that can make
you just like look at life differently.
I I agree with the like analyzing when you said you're
analyzing people because I feel like after everything happened,
I was a lot more selective with who I was friends with.
I don't know. It just made me like.
Why do you think you were more selective?
Who's actually going to be there for me and, like, who I can talk
to about things? Yeah, I think I just stopped
caring as much, like if I had a bad day or whatever, Not that I
would think about the accident or anything, but just my
perspective. I'd be like, like, oh, it's just
it's like it's one thing or it's like it's one bad grade.
Like my life's pretty good so I'm I'm move.
On it's like not that deep anymore, because you know what
like is actually. Exactly.
And then especially when, like, you'd have other friends, like,
complain to you about like, the littlest thing.
I'm like like you have the right to be to complain about it.
But I'm like it's not the big deal.
Like it's like it's today. Tomorrow's another day.
I. Feel like people getting like
really petty things are offended by everything and I'm just like,
honestly, I'm just not really affected by it.
I feel like. Also kids my age just think
they're invincible. We'll do some, like really
stupid stuff. Like, I'm always thinking I'm I
like, like super grown up for my age.
Where am I? Just like, you know, not in
touch with people my age because like, I see them do some really
stupid stuff and just be like, why are you doing that?
You feel more like rational. Someone you feel more rational?
Exactly. More grounded.
And I'm like, did I grow up too
fast? Like, am I not enjoying it?
But you know, I still do things that I did as a kid, but like, I
don't do things that I could see as, like, harmful to myself.
My sense talking to all of you, is there's a there's this
underlying sense of responsibility to not only to
yourselves but to your families. I, you know, and I think that's
something I should I never wanted to mess up or do anything
that was going to cause my mom any more sadness or grief.
You know, I didn't want to cause any more grief in my family,
which also is a burden to carry. Do you feel that ever?
I mean, I think that for me, like part of the, I'm sure that
a lot of older siblings can relate to this.
But part of the burden that I carried being the oldest was
that I almost feel like my relationship with my mom changed
a little bit because I started to hold space for her as like
almost a Co parent dynamic. And I feel like I started to do
a lot more around the house and she kind of would talk to me
about my siblings. Or like, you know, I I just felt
kind of the walls came down in that child parent relationship
to a certain extent. And I definitely wanted to be
strong for her too, because I knew that she was kind of
counting on me and that our dynamic had shifted a little
bit. Interesting.
Yeah. What about you, Gabe?
Oldest. I don't know.
I think it's like can't get 2 perspectives on certain things
and like there's no ask your dad.
There's no it's like you have to.
It's it's more predictable like and you like you said like the
walls get breaking down. Like you kind of know, kind of
know more, you know what she's going to say at certain things,
what you have to do, that sort of thing.
Yeah, we just, we actually just had a conversation with our mom
a couple days ago about how my dad really didn't like us
watching like SpongeBob or like Disney Channel or anything like
that. And my mom kind of teased and
she was like, well, after he died, you guys can watch
whatever you want. And we were like, yeah, 'cause
like it again, like you said, like, it's not two parents, it's
not one, and it's the one parent's perspective.
And so things shift 'cause that's one person's opinions,
one person's advice, one person's you know, one person to
approve, And it's definitely different.
Yeah, I was a very different kid when I was younger.
Like I was off the walls crazy and like just.
I was just like always doing something very energetic.
And people probably found me really annoying because I go on
and on talking about stuff they would not interested in,
especially video games. They really did not want to hear
it. But as all this stuff happened,
I felt that it became more like reserved as a person.
Because if I stayed that way, it'd be a lot more trouble for
my mom. And I don't know whether this is
true, but I sort of became more, less and less like I guess
problematic in what you might think that I wouldn't require as
much energy to like, you know, have to handle.
And it wasn't like a Co parent thing or anything like that.
I just sort of made myself more reserved in that sense.
Interesting. You left your, your, your.
You become more independent. Really is what happens to all
of. You probably did.
There's less feeling of like, I'm going to throw a tantrum
about not getting this Christmas present because there's things
that are bigger than that, yeah. Like as a kid, you just don't
want to cause any more issues because then it it's like, well,
they're already insanely busy, you have no idea what's going on
and now you're causing trouble. How do you feel if your if your
dad's had lived, how would you be a different person?
Or would you be? Do you?
What do you think he would be more carefree?
Would you be you know what? What do you think would be
different? I think maybe my whole life
would be different just based on the fact that like, I don't
know, butterfly effects and every small change.
And I can't really imagine it because I'm not going to be able
to see my life like that. But I think that this event when
I was a kid contributed heavily to like, who I am now and a lot
of the decisions I made. So I just know for a fact my
life would be different. I don't know exactly how, but I
feel like I would be. I try and think on like the
bright side of it, and I think that my dad dying was benefit
was like beneficial to my character in a way.
So I feel like I might be maybe less mature and like respectful
or whatever, if he lived just on the fact that like my, I would
have a different perspective and I'd be more like the people who
hadn't really been through something like that.
I definitely pride myself on like the maturity and this
respectfulness and being independent and things like
that. And I think that those are some
of the bright sides that you can look at.
You know, kind of coming out of one of these experiences and
like learning stuff from it, which I think is the most
important part of the grief process, is learning about
yourself through it also and learning about life.
It definitely would have been different because it's again,
it's having two perspectives versus one, having two, two sets
of rules versus one and things like that.
And I know that there were a lot of things that my dad did, did
as a parent that we definitely or have not experienced.
I remember specifically, like I when I was really little, he
made some joke about me, like not dating until I was 30.
And then I had like a quote UN quote boyfriend in middle
school. And I feel like that that
wouldn't have happened if he was, yeah, things like that,
like little stuff. It just would change your
experiences. Yeah, one of the things that I
thought of is like, I myself and I guess more emotional as a
person. Like I I'm better understanding
what people are going through. And weirdly enough I thought of
this like really kind of a messed up thought and it's like,
would I be the same person if my father kind of like what Thomas
said? I sort of changed, but am I
better off that he's gone now? And which is a really thing that
made me think for a moment, because I would not be the same
person I am today, and a lot of things would be very different
in the way my life is gone. Like probably I wouldn't have
changed schools, gone to a different high school, gone to a
different college. I would not be on the same path
I am right now And I like my life right now, So it's kind of
weird for me to say. I agree with that because, like,
there's so many different perspectives on it, like that
you don't know what path you'd like really be in right now if
you were still here. But like, I'm also pretty happy
with the good that's came out of it and like how it's tough and
me as a person. And how it brings your family
together too. I feel like we always say or my
mom always says Lyman's first, even when we used to fight and
like if we would get other friends involved or something.
She was like, you have to put Lyman's first.
And I always appreciated that message coming out of it, kind
of. Which you'll carry into your
your family, Yeah, yeah. But family is the most important
thing, yeah. Yeah, I think it is weird
thinking about how it would have been, but there's like positives
that come out of it. Just like I'm feel like I'm a
lot more understanding of a person.
And like, I'm good at like listening.
If people have problems, like, I don't know, like you all were
saying, it's definitely odd because I like the way my life's
going right now. So I got to think about how it
would be. Something that I learned after
the accident was that my dad had gotten offered a job back in New
York and my family was considering moving back to New
York before it happened. And I think, I'm not exactly
sure, but at the time that he had passed, I don't think we've
been in Austin for very long, but we know we had.
We haven't moved. Yeah, we haven't moved since
then. It's been like 12 years and now
I go to college here and it's so the city is near and dear to me
now, but maybe it wouldn't have been as much if we had moved and
you know, just weird things like that.
Sounds like, and maybe I'm reading this wrong, that most of
you or all of you are doing pretty great.
Yeah, I'm kind of glad. I don't know that I guess like
separate reality, because then you'd start comparing like both
realities. And I mean, if you're happy with
your life right now, I as messed up as it sounds, I'm happy with
how it's everything's gone. What would you tell a kid your
age when it happened, when you lost your dad?
What advice would you give them? I would say to someone kind of
my age like don't beat yourself up for not feeling about it the
way that you feel like you're supposed to or the way that
maybe somebody else's. Because I know a lot of people
were very sad for me, but I didn't want to feel sad in that
moment. And you know, people all around
you were just sad and the memorial sad and everything's
like dark and you just want to feel normal.
And I think that that should be normalized in the sense that
I've done a lot of work as I've gotten older through working
through my grief. And you don't necessarily have
to work through it when you're 6911 etcetera, because that's
not, that's not something that a six, 911 year old is supposed to
go through or a 14 year old or a 16 year old.
But again, like, I think give yourself time to readjust and
then if if you're struggling with like working through those
feelings, then acknowledge that. But if you're not and you're not
feeling that struggle right when it happens that that's normal
and that doesn't. I think I felt guilty partly
that I wasn't completely heartbroken and then I wasn't
like a complete mess. And it's OK to know that that
doesn't have to be the case. Even though, like everyone's
telling you and acting like the world is over, it's not.
And that's kind of part of learning that like life goes on
and being rational and realistic.
I think in my opinion, I've I've thought about this before, but I
don't really believe that someone can get truly over
something, especially a loss of someone that close to you.
So what I kind of learned in years recently, like the last
few years, is I've been trying to grow with it rather than past
it because it is still a part of you.
Like I don't. I don't let it shave my
identity, but I try to be aware of and conscious of what it's
done for me. So I think that's really
important at the start is there's nothing really you can
do. And like Eisen said, you can't
beat yourself up about the way you feel or what you do after
that because you're going to be a little bit irrational.
And I think the thing that was most important for me was just
trying to stay aware that time will help and that, you know, I
just need to make the best of my situation and try to look past
it, but still, like, keep it with you.
Don't push it out completely because when you push it out
that's when it causes other problems of like a motion build
up or you know you ignore it completely and then that can
happen and you can block out like memories from that time too
if you try and like push away. Yeah, Thomas made a great point.
It should be not your focus of your life, but it should still
be a part of your life. Like I actually have his watch
on my wrist. I I usually carry it around when
I was in university and I kind of seem like a a jerk going
around with a really expensive watch.
But it's sort of a thing that, like, I keep it as a reminder,
but it's not like the focus of my life.
It's like it's always there, but it's not what I always think
about. Like I'll go like many days not
thinking about it. And if I were going to say it to
someone who had just this issue and kind of like going back on
the thing about what people say in response to it is that
sometimes they're always like, oh, I feel so sorry.
It's just a huge reminder of what had just happened.
It's like, thanks for reminding me, but just know that people
are still looking out for you and they're not trying to, like,
scare you or like, push you away or anything.
They just don't know how to respond.
And just take it with a grain of salt and how they respond with
that and keep being yourself. If you're still a kid, you
should still try and be a kid. Don't let this, I guess, ruin
your childhood for you. I agree with that, especially
the like knowing who is trying to help you during that time and
like remember who's actually there for you.
And I think that's the biggest piece of advice I would give
someone. Yeah, I would say not to not
don't drown it out, but don't let it take over, because at the
end of the day, it's like small, you know, it's just one part of
your life. There's all these other parts.
It's going to get better, but everything is with time.
Well, I hear the the common theme or one of the common
themes is don't lose your your childhood, don't lose your
innocence in all of this because it's easy.
It would be easy to do that, but you just all seem to have kept
that in perspective and just wanted to be kids, just wanted
to be normal kids. After that, even though we're
decades apart, this is really, this is really comforting and
healing for me to hear you guys talk.
I think that like any, any way that it happened, anytime that
it happened, like everybody can relate, no matter how kind of
like different the specific experience was, right.
Like even though it happened you like a while ago, like Thomas
said, doesn't mean like you stop grieving and it doesn't mean it
stops the process. It's like a lifetime thing.
It's interesting. I have a painting of my father
that a friend of mine had done for me, and it's my father and
me. On my second birthday, she found
a picture of us. It's this beautiful painting
that was done by by an artist here in Austin.
And I look at it every day when I go to bed because it's right
when I walk into my bedroom, it's on the wall next to my
bedroom door and it's that keeping him with me always.
But I don't think I'm not crying or, you know, I'm not sad, but I
I'll touch it every night before I go to bed, you know, just just
kind of say, hey, you know, you're always with me.
Yeah, I think remembering that it doesn't have to be sad too,
that it doesn't have to all be like, you know, boohoo, that was
horrible. Like, yes, it was.
But, you know, he wasn't. Yeah.
And like, life, life is not horrible now.
And you know, like I always think, you know, if he would be
proud of me in this moment or if he would be happy for me in this
moment, then I don't need to be sad about him not being here for
it, if that makes sense. That makes perfect sense.
Anything you guys want to add? Well, I think it's always good
to not idealize the parent who's passed away.
And sort of, I mean, we already brought up stuff about this like
their little quirks and like what they do.
It's always good to keep them kind of human because if we are
always just thinking about him as like an ideal perspective,
sometimes I can make you think like, am I not living up to this
parent or something like that? And I think that's always good
to keep in perspective that they were also human too.
So they're not like some sort of perfect person that just was
taken away unfairly. I could talk to you all night
and feel like I have 5 new best friends, and I mean that
sincerely. It's really lovely to talk to
you guys.