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Welcome back to Every Widow thing.
I'm Lacey and I'm here with Kira, Whitney and Holly.
And we have guests today, Don and Katie Cash.
They've been married for how many years now?
Just almost six, six years almost.
Six years. So I think all of us want to
know about the dating and then of course meeting Katie.
And then I know Kira's dying to know about like what it's like
to be married because she's engaged so.
I and I will sidebar at some point.
You guys can go. When did you decide or feel
ready to get back into the dating world?
Well, I you, you force yourself. Actually, it was about a year
and I had somebody that I knew in Mississippi that I went back
because I had another friend with the same leukemia laying
head. I had a guy I had to work with
who had just died. So I was making some trips back
to Mississippi and there was somebody that I knew there.
And she and I started, well, call it hanging out, whatever
you want to do. Was great stirred up like, oh,
maybe I've got a you know, and. You know, I was just, you know,
you're just tired of being alone.
Yeah. And there are certain.
Things to have some companionship.
Certain things in your life that you need.
I did, I'll leave it at that. So I did that and I did the the
fact that there was two states away was at that time perfect
because I was not, I didn't want any kind of long term
relationship. I just, I just, you know, needed
some companionship. So that went off and on and off
for like maybe six months, I don't know, something like that.
So then I just like, OK, stop. And I went back to Alabama for
a, a little get together of all the photographers from school,
from college. And a friend of mine brought his
son along and, you know, young, good looking, employed young man
in his 20s. And he was talking about how he
had met the, he's dating this girl and he met her on
thematch.com, right. And I'm thinking, look, you're,
you're, you know, you live in California, you're young, good
looking. And why are you using this to go
to meet women? Well, you meet people when
you're in college 'cause there's a few hundred of them around.
You get out in the real world where you're working and that's
your, that's who you know, And I guess it's just, it's really
hard to meet people like that. So I thought, well, if he can do
it, what the heck, you know, I'll, I'll give it a shot.
I'm one of the, I was not going to do that, was not going to do
any kind of online dating. So I get on this match.com and I
try to be honest about it. I put pictures of me that
weren't always the most flattering, you know, And I
told, you know, and I was telling lazy the story.
thefirstmatch.com date was I talked to this woman.
It's like, OK, meet for drinks. Where do you want to go?
She suggests Eddie VS at the Arboretum, which immediately,
immediately to me said, well, this is not gonna work, right.
I'm more of a dive bar kind of guy, you know?
And it's like. Oh, Eddie, Eddie V For people
who don't know, that's an expensive steakhouse here in
Austin. Maybe not the place that you
would start to. Tease and shrimp cocktails.
Exactly. But isn't it funny how you wait
till people suggest you're like? That's what happened to you
just. Having a holiday?
Oh yeah. He threw out this.
And I was like Nope. Were you like, let's go get some
tacos somewhere? In here and yeah.
Simple. Exactly.
So I so I go up and I, I meet this woman and she's.
Oh, you met her. There didn't.
No. You said.
You know. I drive my little beat up Ford
Ranger truck up there right and park it in the lot and I go in
this, I mean, she's, she's gorgeous.
We're talking. I know it's not going to work,
but I'm just going to go through the motions and we have a drink.
And I start talking about the how the girls and I had
travelled and gone to Europe and we went to Poland because I
wanted to go to Auschwitz because it's such a a powerful
place. And she says, oh, I would never
go to Auschwitz. And I said, well, why not?
I don't like being around negativity.
Can. You imagine.
Like that would be like, check, please and you could pay.
I got another drink and I said, well, you know, if you went to
New York, surely you'd go to the 911.
She goes, I would never do that. And it's like, you know, so
anyways, and you would, you would meet people on this match
and I would, you know, talk to them on the phone and you'd meet
the, you know, I'll go to meet them.
And they would be very nice. There's a lot of nice people out
there. And they'd be very nice.
And I'd go home and I go, OK, well, maybe I'd call this person
again and then I'd wake up the next morning and go, I can't do
it. I just so.
We've all been there. It's a full.
Time jobs, we've all been. There that was forcing myself to
go out and sort of get back in the world before I was remotely
ready, right? So so I get out of that.
I get out of that not too long after I got a assist.
I can't do this anymore. I'm not going to do it.
Got off of that thing. I'm just not even boom, boom,
boom, not going to do it. So New Year's Eve bonfire rolls
around. A friend of mine, Chris Coxwell,
whose husband had died 16 months before I met through a mutual
friend. She's so she's a friend of mine.
I got to have a couple people over for the New Year's Eve
bonfire. I call Chris and and you should
come to the bonfire. Well, she brings Katie.
Katie, who was who was apparently reluctant to come to
the bonfire, right? Chris had had contacted me
earlier in the day and was like, hey, we can go to my friend's
house, he's having a bonfire, just be handful of people.
And I was like, well, let me think about it.
And I said yeah, I'll probably go.
And I was kind of, you know, should I go?
Should I not? And anyway, I said, OK, I'll,
I'd go for like an hour, you know, and.
How long did you really stay? We stayed until like 3 in the
morning. Oh my, wow.
What did you think when you saw Don?
Were you thinking, oh, I might like to go out with him, or was
there none of that, that kind of thought process yet?
Was it really? I just remember thinking that
Don seems like such a kind person and like real authentic
Yes, and I was the Scotch and he was just very, you know, we had
some nice conversations, but we weren't it.
It was a very casual. Were you thinking anything?
No, no, no, no, no. No.
So just nice person to meet. I was just thinking single
moles. Got meet at the bonfire and and
when do you see each other again?
A few days later, I, I, I sing and write songs and I had a, a
gig at the New World Deli and Don came and Pauline and and
maybe Richard and Carol. Anyway, so saw you then.
Yeah, that was a few days later. And that was about it.
And we didn't really, we actually really didn't talk much
because I was performing. But.
And then later, Oh Don had sent me some text messages a few
times inviting me to come to another bonfire.
I'm a nice guy. Every little worried what those
texts said, but well, you said they.
Clean they. Were they were just like, hey,
we're having a, you know, And I said, oh, every, every time he
asked, I had something else going on.
It was like legit conflicts, you know?
And I said, Oh, well, please ask again.
I wasn't really thinking in terms of dating, really.
But I was like, oh, he's a nice person and.
And I wasn't thinking in terms of dating either.
She says, oh, she was a nice person.
I like the music and, you know, another friend.
And so I would text her and another bonfire and no, can't
make it. No, OK, another bonfire, can't
make it. But then she would say, yeah,
ask me again. And she'd put an exclamation
point or two after it, and so some point down the road.
The door. The door was still open.
Well, it was months later, months later, when I was showing
a friend of mine going look, exclamation points.
He goes, oh, they don't mean anything.
They might. I don't know.
What was the turning point for you?
Like exclamations turned into like.
Yeah, we need this. So that holiday season, I was
with my parents in North Carolina, and it was New Year's
Eve and I was I was actually sick.
And I was, you know, just sort of reflecting on the year and,
oh, that fall, I had also kind of had a moment where I was
like, you know, I have a really good life.
I have really good friends. I'm OK, you know, that I don't
have a boyfriend or whatever. This, this is OK, you know, And
anyway, at New Year's time, I was thinking, well, you know, I
think I am ready to have a relationship or something.
And I thought, who have I come across this year?
Maybe there was someone I came across that I could take a
second look. And I thought about Don for a
second and I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, He came to my seat to
release, you know, And then I thought, well, if he asks me to
do something again, I will make sure and go.
Then it was maybe actually about 6.
Weeks later, your birthday, February.
February big month. And I, well, you were playing a
gig at the New World Deli and Pauline and I went.
You had some people in from out of town and I said, hey, a bunch
of us were getting together tomorrow night at Moon Tower for
my birthday. You know you and your friends
should come. Well, lo and behold, she showed
up. Exclamation, exclamation.
I'm going. This is the invite.
It's like. OK, I'll take.
A sign. So did you have any concerns or
worries or were you even thinking anything about the fact
that he had lost a wife or? And had two kids too.
Right. Well, you know, I remember the
first time I came to the bonfire.
The very first time and being in the house and thinking, oh,
there's a beautiful portrait of a beautiful woman on the wall,
but there's I don't see her here, you know, and I didn't
know anything and and but I was, I was not going to ask like, you
know, you. Didn't have.
He was. Divorced or a friend of mine
called it a shrine. OK.
And at some point, she said, after Katie and I started
dating, my friend said you need to take that shrine down.
And it was like, yeah, you're probably right.
See, that bothers me. I mean, yes, I get it.
And and this is something I'd love for Katie to address
because I still I'm dating somebody.
My husband's been dead for six years, but I still, I probably
say his name every day like I tell a story or I relate
something, but I don't feel like I need to stop doing that.
Or I mean, granted, if I had, I mean, he's he's pictures all
over my house. It's not a shrine a shrine.
No, you just have, I mean you have a lot of photos.
But but was this an actual? Like there was like a bookcase
and it was covered in pictures of her?
I mean did. You feel that?
It was a shrine, no? No, it was just.
A picture this big, literally. Oh, you're for real.
It actually didn't even bother me.
I mean, we had moved in at that point, I think, and we've been
dating for a couple of years and yeah, yeah, I think so.
And that's when you're already. Was like, yeah.
I think I remember you telling me about it and I was like, oh
wow, I never, you know, I didn't ask her.
That did you take it down? That was when when you moved in.
Yes, then you move that picture somewhere, but there were other
pictures around and it was completely OK.
You know, I mean, I pretty early when we went on an actual couple
of dates, he, you know, he said to me because I, I wanted to
know about Elaine, but I wasn't sure how to ask because I mean,
and you wait one time we were, we actually at Magnolia Cafe, I
think. And you said, I'm going to talk
about Elaine. And it was something like, I
want you to be OK with that or something.
I said, oh, absolutely. And that made me feel like I
could then ask about her because I want to, I want to meet this
person, you know? And so, yeah, I mean, I, I
really wanted to know. And, and also hearing him talk
about Elaine also helped me learn about him, you know, and,
and learn about the family and the girls.
And so I, I, I thought, I thought that that was also
sacred to, you know, something to kind of an intimacy to, to
learn about. We will be right back all.
Right. Well, we recently had a podcast
about our husband's ashes. Sadly, Kira still can't get into
the box. Can you?
We have. To get in the.
Box I'm working on I'm. Working on the box, the whole
point is you want to be able to do something with those ashes.
I came across a great website, itscalledspiritpieces.com, and
what I love about it is that they give you a variety of
options. It's jewelry, it's glass art,
it's statues. You can do a ton of stuff with
ashes, and we all have quite a few.
Two ashes. There's a.
Lot in the box. Yeah.
There is a lot in the box. I like the paperweight idea.
Doesn't spiritpieces.com have paperweight?
Yes, and you know what's so great?
And there's one that I'm actually going to order.
It's this heart paperweight and it's beautiful.
But what I love about the glass art is that they have like
hanging pieces and stuff and when the light hits it, it feels
very heavenly. That's so pretty, I know.
So if you're interested, if this is something that you would like
for your own loved one, spiritpieces.com/every Widow
thing so they know that you heard about it through US, is a
great option for for you and for your loved one.
We hope you check it out. Imagine a financial partner who
meets you exactly where you are, acknowledging your grief and
taking the time to listen, empathize and truly understand
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And again, that's 512-341-9898. Tell them you heard about them
on every widow thing. And now, back to the show.
I mean, I think I still do encourage us talking about.
Well, don't really. I don't really, you know, It's,
it's, it's, it's there. It's always there.
I don't really shy away. I really appreciate you being
supportive in that way to do that too, because this can't be
easy. Well, it has been wonderful
really. I mean, there, there have been
moments that have been difficult and, and, but eye opening and,
and it feels, I don't know, it feels real and authentic and,
and So what? Were you telling me earlier?
I think I remember I was saying that I don't know where I got
this from, whether a friend had said this to me or whether.
But the way you know, Elaine died, you know, it wasn't a
divorce. You know, it was a relationship
that ended in a in a sad way, you know, and that.
As. Not by choice.
And that he they were married for 30 years.
Yeah. Still in love?
With her. And I thought, well, he, he had
a long relationship. He knows how to be in a
relationship in a, you know, a real relationship.
So I think in my head I thought, oh, this is someone I would, you
know, want to date. And we all bring a little trauma
into new relationships because you know it.
Because of our loss. But it's different because we
all had strong, healthy marriages and like you were
saying when our husbands died that the marriage was healthy
and wonderful and there was just a trauma that happened that
ended the marriage. But it wasn't sort of like a
slow disintegration of trust or, you know, love or whatever, like
a divorce, like a, you know, a separation.
This occurred to me all the way up here is when you're divorced,
you're mad. When you're a widow, you're sad.
I take the sad over as far as a relationship goes, You know,
Katie, Katie has not been married before.
She doesn't have any kids. You know, frankly, I think I hit
the jackpot there because, you know, she didn't have a horrible
marriage and she's not mad at somebody.
She shows up with no baggage. Yeah, I know.
What about He had kids. He had two kids that were much
older. So what was that like
integrating into that part of his his life as well, not just
him? It was I, you know, I was eager
to meet the girls at a time that felt natural.
And, and I both, I mean, very quickly, just just they, they're
wonderful. And they both were so welcoming
and that was so important, you know, because, you know, that
doesn't always happen. I think that can be a real,
yeah, that can really stop things, you know?
Scott, has you brought any other women into their like had they
met anyone else? I heard one time somebody a a
therapist said your kids are going to hate whoever you bring
in first, like the first person they're not going to like,
they're going to be angry. They're probably right.
And then so like whoever that first person is, make sure
you're not. You don't have a.
Chance you don't really. Care don't be the first.
I, I, I did. They, they met.
I think maybe Anna because she was home met probably two or
three. Caitlyn met one, probably, you
know. And was that true?
Like the did they dislike those? First, Anna seemed to be OK with
the first two. I had a problem, you know, on on
the last one because it wasn't so much that who this person
was, but just the timing of everything.
And this is, you know, several years later and it was.
And I look back now I go, yeah, bad, bad call.
On my part you. Know sorry about that but you
you when you I I do know when I started going out with somebody
this person somewhere else that I didn't tell my kids and at
some point when I said Oh yeah, I'm going out tonight and I'm
not going to be home and they're like what?
And it wasn't. And it wasn't so much that I was
seeing someone, it's that that I hadn't been honest with them.
And because he's like, I'm trying to protect them.
I don't want them, you know, Baba, you know, protect and
protect and protect them. And they were both righteously
upset that I was not being honest.
With well and they were older too.
I mean I I think you do protect a child maybe an 8 year old or
even mine. 11/12/13 I wasn't sharing the guy was going out
with people and even the guy that I'm seeing now he just kind
of would show up sometimes. I wouldn't like this is my
boyfriend, you know, my daughter actually pulled me aside.
She's like, you know, we know that y'all are dating right And
I was like, oh. They're smart.
They're they're smart, they're very smart.
So at what point I'm curious about this because I dated for
on and off for many years and had some relationships and then
met my now fiance and I'm so curious about I knew when I knew
that it was like how it was with my late husband.
It was it was trending toward how I felt about Frank and and I
could see a life with this person.
At what point did you decide that that was where you were
headed? Well, I I have AI keep a
schedule. So Katie anyways, at the
birthday party, I finally sit down.
I talk with Katie. We just you know, and I'm having
my beers and we're socializing. So we get ready to leave.
I walk her to her car and I said, well, what would you think
about maybe like going out on an actual date?
And she said why that would be great.
So I gave her a kiss goodnight and I waltzed to my friend's car
like this and I think I've got a girlfriend and I've.
Got a girlfriend? So I think at this point I was
in a I was so much further along and so much more open to
something the rest of the years is for.
Yeah, a lot of these other views are forcing yourself and forcing
yourself. And at some point it just went,
OK, I'm OK going to do this. So we dated for almost a year.
And about the time I was read here to talk, I said, I'm going
to wait till the end of the year.
If we're the dating's going, OK, I'm going to maybe we'll talk
about moving in together. So I go over to see her and
she's got her paperwork. And I said, I bet that's her
lease. I know her lease is up.
So she says, hey, I want to talk to you about something.
And so so I let her do it instead of me asking, she's
like, well, what do you think about?
And I said, yeah, I think this is a great.
I said yeah. This is a great idea.
So it was like a month and a half ahead of my schedule,
literally. And so she said, well, my lease,
my lease is not up for two more months, so I can move into two
months. I said, well, why don't you move
in tomorrow? We just made a decision
tomorrow, tomorrow. So yeah, so Katie moved in.
Let's go, let's go. Let's start moving the furniture
right now. So we did that.
And then my next thing was like, OK, if we live together for a
year, at the end of the year, if we're still living together and
it's going well, maybe we'll talk about marriage.
But in June of that year, July, OK, that's right.
The 19th was the day, right? OK.
Because, see, I know she know that.
So we go on a back roads trip when my daughter's working for
back roads, oldest daughter Caitlin, which does bicycle
trips and stuff all over, we go to Ireland on the plane on the
way over, I'm thinking, what am I waiting for?
Why am I going to wait till the end of the year?
This is going well. I really love her, really like
her. We're doing fine.
I think I'll ask her to marry me.
So get to Ireland. I go to Caitlin goes, what do
you think about this? Yes, dad.
Anyway, so we're riding. We do the bike thing for a week.
Anna comes over because she doesn't ride bikes.
She's going to come over. Second week, we're going to tour
around. I say, Anna, here's what I'm
thinking about. And her response was, well, it's
about time. So they help me plot where to
get a ring, an engagement ring, and.
That's really wonderful. And it all happened in Ireland.
It happened in Ireland and I didn't have a ring or anything.
You know, I was thinking I'll get a, we'll use some of these
bike parts and make a ring. But the girls were not having
that Clata maybe so. So we got a Clata ring.
You did. Oh, that's fine.
I didn't know that. We went to a ring shop.
We go to a ring shop. The girls, they're, they're on
this thing. They got it.
So we go to this shop and try and own jewelry, trying on
rings. It's like, Oh yeah, because the
girls like, I'd like to get a clutter ring.
Oh, Katie, what do you think about it?
So she put one on and we're going whatever size.
It was on my right finger, my right hand too.
I. So they also, if the crown going
out and in, they all have different meanings.
So then we wander off and Anna and I go, oh, I need to go do
something. So Caitlin kept Katie and Anna
and I went back to the place and bought the ring and they bought
some champagne and some stuff and we plotted out on a
Wednesday on the 19th. Where were you in Ireland?
A place called Sleeve. Sleeve League.
Yeah, it's actually the highest. It's the highest cliffs, the
highest. I love it there of the only
rainy day, the only rainy day in the kids room.
We're walking and I got, you know, just got the ring in the
pocket and I, you know, the girls get the cameras ready and
I get that on one knee. And I do this and Katie looks at
me like, is your knee OK? Yeah.
What are you doing on the ground?
And I'm like, OK, you can think about it if you want to.
And I think she was just kind of.
Yeah, it was a surprise, actually.
I mean, I really, I wasn't expecting that.
And it was like, oh, oh, this is happening.
Did you say? Yes, I did, yeah.
I love that the girls were part of it.
Like how? I do.
Too. That they helped you conspire.
And pull it off. And I love that you really
didn't know, because most people kind of have an inkling.
No, we I. Didn't you?
Didn't. I didn't have an inkling till I
got halfway to. Ireland.
This is like a running theme with this guy.
Goes with this gut it sounds. Like I.
Do have a question? Was there ever a moment, Don?
Were you completely at peace with Elaine?
You know, Elaine and I were married just short of 30 years.
Not perfect, but very good so and I really do think if you
have a good relationship that your spouse would like you to
be. Happy.
Absolutely. 100. Percent your.
Kids want you to be happy. Sure.
People want you to be happy. I don't feel like I'm you.
Didn't have to struggle with anything, would.
You know, you know. Yeah.
Well, just like the first time around, right when you know.
My oldest daughter was asking about that recently and she
goes, do you know? And it's like, do you know, I
said, well, sometimes you just know.
I mean, a little bit of Scotch will help you out.
For sure, but sometimes. You.
Just you. Know.
Don just like leaps before he looks anyway.
He's like. No, he has a schedule.
He has your schedule. I learned a little bit from
Zephyr when I was, you know, Zephyr, you know, he had this
girl and they moved in together. And it's like, wait, how long
have you been? How long have you known her?
And I think he said like 3 months.
And I'm like, what? And he goes, well, you, you may
as well find out. Well, they're not together,
right? But I did go, well, OK, that's
right. You may if you if you think this
is it, or you know this is it, you just go.
Yeah, life's too short, as we know when you've lost someone.
So I know we have a whole second part that we want to get to.
But before we move into that, Katie, is there anything that
you could share with this, you know, the people who would be
possibly marrying a widower, a widower or, or even that are
looking and dating somebody? Like what are what are the
things that you've learned or what are some things that
surprised you? You know, how is I incorporated?
Yeah. I think it felt important to me
to hold space for Elaine and, and keep holding space and be be
curious and not afraid to ask about the spouse who's passed
away. And, and that person is your
friend. You know, Don's mom, his family
was so supportive and welcoming. And his mom told me once and I
didn't really go to her talking. I didn't really tell her if I
had insecurities or whatever. She would occasionally just say
things. And I was like, oh, wow, that's
so helpful. But she said to me that there's
a lot of room in your heart and there's a there's a room,
there's a room for you and there's a room for Elaine and
you're all in there. And that was just such a nice
way to think about it. And so I guess I would say that
you're not competing with that person.
Reach out to your own support system because it is kind of
unknown territory and. Yeah.
Everyone involved for everyone. Well, she's, she's, she's not
replacing Elaine and Anne and I when we were in therapy, there
was a lot of that, you know, and that there was not replacing
this person. Well, it's like I read
something. If you have another child, are
you replacing the first child with the second child?
You know, do you love one more? I'm some days, but most of the
time no. And.
So I thought, oh, that's yeah, there's room for everybody.
And I love what you said. You're holding space for Elaine,
you're honoring her, and there's no competition, so.
It's actually your friend, which I think is beautiful.
Yeah, it is beautiful. I think that's beautiful way of
because she loved the. Same person you love.
Absolutely. And in some ways, mold him into
who he is for you, you know? So yeah, I love that.
Thank you. Well.
There's a, there's a few billion people in the world and I think
there's probably more than one person in the world that you
could have a good relationship with.
It's a matter of timing and where you are and everything
like that. And I feel very fortunate.
I mean, I, I think if you find true love one time, you're
probably pretty lucky. And I think I have found true
love twice. And that makes me, you know,
pretty, pretty lucky. Despite a few setbacks in life,
I love it. It's good.
I always say which? It's for all of us.
Like we were in love and we have a lot of love to give.
That's well, I like that. Next week, we will drop our
third installment of our conversation with Don Cash.
We're going to be covering the topic of compounded grief.
This family, after losing their mother, had to endure yet
another tragedy when Don's daughter Caitlin, found her
friend, professional cyclist Mariah MO Wilson, murdered in
her apartment. We discuss how you heal after
such a senseless tragedy and how grief from another loss comes
bubbling back to the surface. Stay tuned.