Welcome to the Iran 1400 Project podcast, where we explore the
past, present, and possible futures of Iran through informed
dialogue, independent thought, and diverse voices.
From historical insight to emerging narratives, we connect
ideas to action in the pursuit of a more just, inclusive, and
forward-looking society. Join us as we rethink Iran's
trajectory, one conversation at a time.
Today, we're taking a deep dive into a question that's well more
relevant than ever, the very nature of unity and national
identity in Iran. This isn't just about, you know,
a country on a map. It's a civilization.
Absolutely layered with incredible contradictions, these
powerful continuities and collective dreams stretching
back millennia. And for this deep dive, we're
drawing our core fights from a really fantastic piece of
research. It's called Unity, Identity and
Civic Belonging in Iran. It's part of the Iran 1400
project written by Wafaa Mushtikim.
Ah. Yes, a really insightful source,
and our mission today really is to explore how Iran it pretty
much every critical juncture in his long history has grappled
with this profound question of unity.
Right. What does it actually mean?
Exactly who gets to define it, and how can it, you know,
realistically be preserved? The Iran 1400 project really
zeroes in on these core questions, like what kind of
unity can hold space for difference?
That's key. And what kind of national
identity can emerge from pluralism rather than erasure?
Big questions. Huge questions.
And this isn't just some academic discussion, is it for
the history books. What this research really
highlights is that we're talking about a very current, very
pressing context in Iran. Things like, you know, growing
generational divides, regional marginalization, heartbreaking
gender based repression and widespread civic unrest.
I mean, you just have to think about the powerful woman life
freedom movement. It resonated around the world.
Precisely. Yeah.
And the key argument the authors put forward is that true unity,
it needs to be rooted in something far more profound than
just, you know, top down definitions.
OK, like what? It needs to be rooted in what
they call civic belonging. Civic Belonging.
Yeah, which is about a shared sense of community, mutual
responsibility, OK Also ethical interdependence, meaning we
really get our moral reliance on each other.
Right. And an evolving concept of
Iranian citizenry. Yeah.
That's the core framework we'll be exploring today, you know, in
depth. So the challenges today are
undeniable, but the paper immediately zeroes in on the
urgency of this question of unity right now in Iran.
What are the current dynamics making this such a pressing
issue? Well, the contemporary
challenges are indeed very pressing.
Those growing generational divides you mentioned, the
regional marginalization, ongoing gender based repression
and the civic unrest, they're all sort of bubbling to the
surface. You really feel it.
You do. And when you hear slogans like
woman, life, freedom or the distinct chance from, say,
ethnic and religious minorities, it's a clear indication that
Iranian society is actively seeking a unity that isn't
simply, you know, defined from above.
OK, so not imposed. Exactly.
It signals A fundamental reevaluation of what holds
society together. That idea of unity not being
from above is fascinating. But if that's the case, then
what does define Iranian identity?
Where do people find that common ground?
Well, he leads us directly back to that idea of unity being
rooted in civic belonging. OK, that's shared sense.
That shared sense of community and responsibility.
Yeah. And ethical interdependence and
a truly evolving understanding of Iranian citizenry.
And what's powerful, I think, is that this deep dive won't just
explore these as, like, abstract ideas.
No, We'll look at them through the lenses of Irans history, its
philosophy, moments of civic resistance, and even proposals
for institutional design. You know, after hearing about
the historical push for unity, what truly stands out in this
research, for me anyway, is the revelation that Iran also
possesses this incredible indigenous tradition of
embracing diversity. Yes, that's often overlooked.
Can you walk us through some of those powerful examples?
Absolutely. Let's start with Iran's rich,
poetic and mystical traditions. Immensely influential figures
like Bedell Dalavi, for instance, didn't see
multiplicity as a threat, Not at all.
He saw it as a reflection of truth's richness.
Interesting. And Rumi maybe more famously
wrote, the lamps are different, the light is the same.
Beautiful line. Isn't it highlighting a shared
essence beneath all the surface distinctions?
And then there's Saudi's immortal verse, which you know
you can find at the entrance in the United Nations.
Oh. Wow, I didn't know that was
Saudi. Yes, the children of Adam are
limbs of one another. Incredible.
So this tradition frames unity not as sameness, but as a shared
humanity grounded in humility and mutual care.
It offers a profound civic rationale for coexistence.
And building on this, you have the Baha'i Faith, which emerged
in mid 19th century Iran. It introduced a really
compelling civic model of unity and diversity.
Despite facing persecution, right?
Exactly. Despite significant
marginalization, the Baha'i community has advanced this
philosophy, where unity is seen as a societal strength.
Not, you know, a burden. How so?
Well, Abdul Baha, a respected moral thinker, described unity
not as uniformity but as the harmonious cooperation of
diverse elements like an orchestra.
And this vision has practical civic implications like
consultation where everyone's voice is ideally heard,
nonpartisan administration to ensure fairness and equal
participation in community life. So real world application, yes.
Recovering this legacy, the research argues, means
recognizing an overlooked strand of Iranian civic thought.
It offers a values based framework for pluralism that
really deepens our understanding of citizenry.
And finally, we see this pluralist tradition really at
play during Irans Constitutional Revolution 1905 to 1911 a.
Pivotal. Moment absolutely pivotal.
This was a period where Iran started imagining a nation held
together not by bloodline or religious creed, but by law and
citizenship. A major shift.
Thinkers like Ahmad Khazravi and Muhammad Ali Faroi were
advocating for a civic identity based on rational governance.
And even minority leaders of the time were calling for things
like federalism and linguistic recognition, you know, to foster
genuine inclusion. Were those ideas adopted?
Well, no. Though these aspirations were
ultimately interrupted, they revealed this deep desire to
forge unity through institutional pluralism and an
early vision of Iranian citizenry grounded in equal
rights and civic participation. It was there.
That's a powerful revelation, especially when, like you said,
many might only see Iran through a lens of imposed unity.
Exactly. But if these pluralist
traditions are so deeply rooted, why do we see so much internal
conflict and suppression today? What happened between those
ideals and the current reality? That's exactly where the story
gets, well, complex. These historical threads, they
show a deep seated tradition of pluralism.
Clearly. What's fascinating here is how
these different traditions you know, from poetry to civic
movements, they all point towards a similar underlying
principle. Which is.
That true unity can encompass and even be enriched by
diversity. It's not an either.
These historical threads really paint a fascinating picture of
Iran's internal dynamics. But let's Fast forward a bit now
and see how these ideas of national identity have actually
evolved over the last century or so, shaped not just by state
ideologies but crucially by those bottom up movements too.
Indeed, so under the Pilavi monarchy 1925 to 1979, national
identity was quite deliberately centered on Persian heritage
parking back to pre Islamic empires and this narrative of
modernization. Right the Shah's vision.
Exactly. Their slogan was basically one
nation, one language, one history.
Very homogenizing. Very.
And while this approach did foster a sense of national pride
and some modernization, and no doubt it explicitly excluded
Irans ethnic, linguistic and religious diversity, often
marginalizing non Persian groups pretty severely.
So a very top down, almost Persian first identity, was
there a significant cost to that approach?
Oh, absolutely. It created divisions that would,
you know, later resurface quite dramatically.
OK then, with the rise of the Islamic Republic from 1979 to
around 2009. The revolution, yes.
Identity was redefined dramatically through Shia Islam
and revolutionary resistance. National belonging became sort
of tethered to ideological loyalty.
So loyalty to the system. Pretty much.
And this meant religious minorities, secular Iranians,
non Persian ethnic groups. They were often sidelined or
sometimes outright suppressed. Right.
This model sought unity through spiritual hegemony, let's call
it, but it came at the cost of pluralist inclusion and a shared
sense of citizenry. That link was broken for many,
but then the 2009 green movement marked a new turning point.
I remember that. Yeah, what began as an electoral
protest quickly evolved into this civic awakening really that
challenged this imposed unity. Well, slogans like We are all
together and Hope is the seed of our identity explicitly rejected
those ideological and ethnic divisions.
This movement really embraced the idea of shared citizenship
and demanded legal and democratic rights for all
Iranians regardless of background.
It was a revival of that crucial bottom up vision of Iranian
citizenry and most recently, of course, the 2022 protests.
Sparked by Masa Amini's death. Exactly Ignited by the tragic
death of Masai Gina Amini, these protests powerfully elevated
dignity, bodily autonomy and universal rights as central to
Iranian identity. Led by women, youth, yes.
Led by women, youth and marginalized communities, the
slogan Woman, Life, Freedom just cut across ethnic, gender and
generational lines in a way we hadn't really seen.
Before everywhere it. Really.
Was it redefined unity not as obedience to an ideology, but as
solidarity and pursuit of dignity?
A profound shift. Absolutely.
It powerfully affirmed that Iranian citizenry must include
all voices, not just those deemed loyal to the state.
It's clear that these narratives of national identity are, as the
source says, deeply contested. So, given all these shifts and
struggles, what does this all mean for achieving true unity
today? What are the biggest hurdles
right now? Well, the research lays out the
significant barriers to civic unity, and they are substantial.
The Iranian state continues to define belonging in very narrow
ideological terms. That's one major thing.
Ethnic and religious minorities still face systemic legal and
social discrimination. Ongoing issue.
Big time, and civic dissent is essentially criminalized, which
shuts down vital avenues for dialogue and change.
Silencing voices. Precisely.
And even within the diaspora, you see political fragmentation
and frankly, disinformation campaigns that have hindered the
development of a cohesive civic vision.
So challenges both inside and out.
Yes. So yes, these narratives of
national identity are deeply contested, and a shared
understanding of Iranian citizenry remains, I'd say,
aspirational rather than truly institutionalized.
Yet. That's a comprehensive list of
challenges, which brings us to the proposed solution in the
research toward a civic belonging Yes.
What exactly does this entail, given all these deep seated
issues? Well, what clearly emerges from
this history, I think, is not the failure of unity itself,
yeah, but rather the failure of top down exclusionary visions of
unity. Those have consistently failed.
OK, makes sense. So instead, the Iran 1400
project into 3 words. Advocate for civic belonging.
Define that a bit more. It's essentially a participant
recipitory framework. The idea is that all Iranians,
regardless of background belief location, are equal agents in
shaping their society. Active involvement.
Active involvement, not passive reception.
It's key. And at the heart of this
framework is a renewed call for Iranian citizenship, it
conceived. Differently as a.
Unifying narrative rooted not in bloodline belief or ideology,
but in shared rights, mutual responsibility, and moral
agency. So more ethical.
Exactly. Citizenship here isn't just a
legal status. It's conceived as a civic and
ethical identity that truly invites every Iranian, wherever
they reside, to participate in shaping the nation's future.
Political scientist Aram Hassami frames this really well.
I think he says it's a moral task, stating unity without
plurality is tyranny. Diversity without unity is
fragmentation. Wow, that really captures the
tension. It does.
It's a powerful warning and maybe a guiding principle.
And historian Abbas Amanat adds another layer.
He reminds us that Iranian identity has always been defined
by dynamic dualities. Dynamic dualities, yeah.
Essentially contrasting forces that have shaped its very
character through history. Like what?
Think of the tensions between Din and Dolet face and state,
OK? Or the concept of Iran and an
Iran self and other in national identity, right?
And even the internal push and pull between boom and bar, the
center and the periphery of the country itself.
Interesting. Reconciling these, Amanda not
argues, requires not enforced consensus but inclusive
institutions, participatory dialogue and ethical public
discourse. Hard work, necessary work, Unity
and diversity, the research stresses, is not an abstract
dream. It is a political and civic
necessity for national renewal right.
And crucially, it must be built from the ground up through fair
laws, inclusive education, consultative governance and a
shared commitment to the Iranian citizenry.
Bottom up reinforcement. What a powerful, forward-looking
message this research delivers. It truly highlights that it
won't be a single ideology or faction that scripts Iran's
future. No, but the many voices
insisting on dignity, participation and shared
responsibility. Precisely, the research
concludes that Iranian citizens, conceived in this broad ethical
way, offer a unifying narrative capable of fostering pluralism
without demanding uniformity. That's the.
Goal. That's the goal.
And this narrative, it stresses, is not a Western export.
It is a civic ideal deeply rooted in Iranian history and
increasingly voiced by its people.
Important distinction. Very ultimately, the powerful
metaphor here, which I really like, is that Iran is not a
puzzle to be solved, but a mosaic to be honored.
What an incredible deep dive. We've really journeyed through
centuries of Iranian history, haven't we?
We have examining how these profound questions of unity and
national identity have been debated, imposed, and ultimately
reimagined from the ground up. This concept of civic belonging
as a foundation for a diverse society really gives you a lot
to consider. It does.
And, you know, given Iran's rich yet often suppressed history of
pluralism that we've discussed, here's maybe a thought for you,
the listener, to Mull over what specific, concrete steps could
actually be taken today, right now, to foster those inclusive
institutions in that participatory dialogue that are
essential for building a a truly civic belonging from the ground
up. What does that look like in
practice? A vital question for our current
moment. Thank you for joining us on this
deep dive. My pleasure and we encourage you
to continue your own exploration of these vital topics.
Thank you for listening to the Iran 1400 Project podcast.
The Iran 1400 Project invites scholars, experts, and
intellectuals to share their assessment of the evolution of
institutions and ideas during the past 100 years to inspire a
vision of Iran in the 1400s. If you found today's episode
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the conversation. For more content and upcoming
events, visit iran1400.org. Until next time, stay engaged,
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