1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,920 Hello and welcome to Curious Equestrian. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,640 I'm your host Anna Louise, and in this podcast we deep dive 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,560 into all kinds of equestrian conversations with brilliant 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,280 guests from professionals to well known names and horse 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,760 owners just like us. I am so excited about today's 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,080 guest, Claire McLeod, an independent nutritionist, 7 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:27,520 because, well, Claire's Facebook page with over 28,000 followers 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,960 is one of my favorite places to go on the Internet for horsey 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,680 hints and tips, expert knowledge, and a good old debate 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,960 as well. Not just about what we feed our 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,040 horses, but every aspect of horse care. 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,240 Because as Claire puts it, nutrition isn't everything, but 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,960 there's nothing without it. In this episode, we delve into 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,280 winter feeding and I ask all the questions that horse owners like 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,440 you are too embarrassed to ask 'cause let's face it, sometimes 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,319 we think we should know a certain amount of knowledge or 17 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,400 we think, well, we've owned a horse for X amount of years, we 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,720 shouldn't really be asking that. Or, I've been around horses 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,000 since I was small, I definitely should know this by now. 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,560 But sometimes we have to go back to basics and not be too afraid 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,520 to ask those questions so that we can unpick a problem or solve 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,160 a challenge or a mystery that we're experiencing with our 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,400 horses. Let's jump in, shall we? 24 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,120 Claire, can you give us your top? 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,680 Tips for winter feeding Yeah, we just always have to put up with 26 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,680 that season with horses and especially in the UK, although 27 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,840 of course you might have listeners, listeners or watchers 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,360 from elsewhere, but we need to get through the winter as smooth 29 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,240 as we can. But the most important tips I 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,560 would say are this kind of, I could list a whole load, but 31 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,000 let's just keep it to two really important tips for winter, 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,440 successful winter feeding. The first one is to make dietary 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,720 changes gradually. And I know that sounds not very, 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,520 but it's so important. And what some owners maybe 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,640 aren't aware of is that actually it's more important for the 36 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,560 foragers than the bucket feed. So most of us, if we've kind of 37 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,400 gone through pony club or equivalent or we've had horses 38 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,360 for a while or we're on a yard, we can understand generally that 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,720 you need to make bucket feed changes gradually. 40 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,880 But I think a lot of owners say aren't aware that the forage is 41 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,040 even more important to change gradually and specific. 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,440 Specifically if we're going from a grass based diet to conserved 43 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,120 hair hailage, that's the highest risk for a colic. 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,080 So I know it's times in winter with turn out. 45 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,800 Sometimes we have turn out, sometimes we don't. 46 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,200 If we can keep in mind that we need to make her forage changes 47 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,200 gradual, then we can think about stocking up on forage, making 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,920 sure we don't run out before we have another batch, keeping some 49 00:02:48,920 --> 00:02:52,440 back if we know our livery yard does change to a different batch 50 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,680 using soap grass nuts or soap grass chaff. 51 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,640 If our horses have to go from grass, significant grass and not 52 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:02,320 very much grass in their diet, all these things will actually 53 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,320 really help protect their horses digestive tract and keep it 54 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,280 functioning well. And actually there's a third 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,680 one, but the second one would be, and I know, yeah, this 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,680 sounds kind of obvious, but a lot of horse owners don't do it. 57 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,720 And we're, well, I don't even do it and I should. 58 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,240 And that is monitoring our horses really carefully and 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,760 keeping an objective record. And this is, I like using weight 60 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,000 tape. So they're not accurate for 61 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,320 kilos, but if you pop a weight tape around your horse, you can 62 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,400 catch changes in body fat quicker than you'll see them by 63 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,840 eye. So yes, we can condition score. 64 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,200 And yes, we need to know if the horse's body fat level is 65 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,560 healthy at the beginning in the 1st place, but just that 66 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,320 measurement can help us pick up the changes. 67 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,400 And we always need to be on top of our horse's body fat or 68 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,320 condition changes so that we can adjust their diet, either less 69 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,320 calories or more, depending on what's happening with our body 70 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,800 fat levels. Now, obviously, some horses will 71 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,960 lose weight in winter quite easily and some will actually 72 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,480 gain because they might be doing less exercise and moving around 73 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,320 less. So these are the two really 74 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,120 important things. The third one actually, that's 75 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,080 probably worth a mention because again, some people will think 76 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,960 this is overkill, but we do always need to make sure that 77 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,840 horses are drinking plenty of water because many will drink 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,560 less when it's chilled. So actually adding hot water to 79 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,800 your horse's water bucket in the winter is not being fussy or or 80 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,280 too pampering them too much. It can make a big difference to 81 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:27,720 the hydration level. Really fascinating whip through 82 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,640 there, Claire, with some really important points to note. 83 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,920 And I'm fascinated by you mentioning that it's actually 84 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,320 those grass fed horses that are more likely to get colic if the 85 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,120 diet changes. In this hay crisis. 86 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,680 We're being encouraged to still obviously feed our ad Lib hay, 87 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,560 but I know that lots of vets and and feed places are advising 88 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,520 that we swap hay out for hailage. 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,360 Is it OK to be to be mixing hailage in with the hay for our 90 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,440 horses that are out? Is it OK to be sort of having 91 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,840 different amounts popped over the fence each evening? 92 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,600 How would you balance hay versus hailage with our grass fed 93 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,960 horses? Yeah, that's a really good 94 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,640 question, because forage can vary very widely. 95 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,360 It's easy to think that all hay is similar and all hay hailage 96 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,960 is similar. But nowadays especially, even 97 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,840 hailage varies very widely. When it first started being made 98 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:19,440 for horses, it was pretty consistent, but now it varies 99 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,560 very widely to just almost just hailage from hay to actually 100 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,320 quite wet. So we do have to be aware that 101 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,600 by changing either batches or actually between hay and halage, 102 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,160 we're providing our horse or we're causing our horse to have 103 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:38,080 a a sudden change in their feed. And it's, it's mainly for their 104 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,480 gut microbiome, all these healthy bugs that live in their 105 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,480 gut that digest their health digestive food. 106 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,480 That's what we're trying to keep healthy. 107 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,720 They also have digestive enzymes, which we have to be 108 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,760 sure that we change their feed gradually for. 109 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,520 But going back to your hay halage, yeah, it's important. 110 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:56,360 And if you're like struggling with supply of hay, the best 111 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,120 thing to do is actually keep both hay and hailage in the 112 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,880 diet. And again, this, some owners 113 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,280 already do this, but some maybe don't stop and think you can 114 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:06,960 feed that selection of foragers. It can be a bit of a challenge 115 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,240 if you've got limited storage space. 116 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,160 But if you keep hay and hailage in the diet all the time as a 117 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,960 combination, then if one run is going to run out or run low, or 118 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,720 you're not sure about the quality of hay that you can get, 119 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,200 you can just increase that hailage up. 120 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,320 And the horse's gut's already partially adapted to it. 121 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,040 So as long as you keep that consistency day-to-day in the 122 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,720 different types of feed and forage your horse has, that's 123 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,080 what helps keep their gut healthy. 124 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,400 It's much more important than any digestive tract supplement 125 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,400 or herbal thing or whatever else that someone's trying to sell 126 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,440 you to help their gut health. I'm being a little bit flippant 127 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,960 because they are useful, these products in some cases. 128 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,200 But much more important than that is keeping the forage in 129 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,240 the horses diet consistent. So yeah, you do have to be aware 130 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,400 of different batches of hay, hailage and also that 131 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,400 combination of hay and hailage. But it can be a useful way to 132 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,720 just avoid stress for yourself to keep some hailage in stock so 133 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,360 that if the hay runs low or or you maybe have a bad batch. 134 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,160 Because what we have to be careful with with horses is that 135 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,080 we don't end up feeding whatever hay we can get hold of. 136 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,360 And actually it's either mouldy or dusty or it's not suitable to 137 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,680 be fed to horses because they're very much more susceptible to 138 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,920 mould, mycotoxins and that sort of thing compared to a 139 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,680 ruminants, for example. Yes, that's so important and and 140 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,640 great to hear that as well with little tips of what we can do in 141 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,200 this hay shortage when we're all scrabbling for ideas to make 142 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,040 that hay last longer. When you mention gradual 143 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,520 changes, Claire, how gradual is gradual when we're interrupting 144 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,680 our horses diet and and tweaking things? 145 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Now I I always try to answer questions without saying the 146 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,480 words It depends and my members I work with always laugh at me 147 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,760 and they say they're going to get a hoodies like March with it 148 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:55,680 depends written on it. Annoyingly, it often does depend 149 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:01,440 and but before I go on to losing my my my earphones before I go 150 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,840 on to the IT depends part. What I would say is that 151 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:10,560 generally 7 to 10 days, but at least a few days if you are 152 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,280 changing more than like if you're changing all the forage 153 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,960 the horse gets and it's most of their diet, ideally over 7 days. 154 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,920 But The thing is, it depends on how much you're changing the 155 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,680 forage. So I suppose what I'm saying is 156 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,760 if you're going from like a late cut, stocky, late cut, stocky 157 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,559 fibrous hay to a quite good quality halage, because that's 158 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,039 your only option, you'll be wanting to change that over a 159 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,320 good seven to 10 days. Whereas if you're change 160 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,880 changing from one batch of hate to the next, it's not too 161 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,679 dissimilar. You could do that over a few 162 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,240 days. So it kind of does depend on 163 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,200 what changes you're making. But like I say, I'm repeating 164 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,280 myself, but it's, it's the the important factor, it's the 165 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,360 digestive tracked microbes, the the gut microbiome that we're 166 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,160 trying to nurture. They, their populations depend 167 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,040 on a consistent supply of feed. So if we change the type of 168 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,080 forage, the type of fibrous material going through, we can 169 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,440 cause disturbances in those populations. 170 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,200 We want to just allow them time to adjust. 171 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,800 And Oh my goodness, I've just learnt something in, you know, 172 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,920 my whole lifetime of being around horses that you're 173 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,120 supposed to gradually change 1 hay delivery to the next. 174 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,200 And with the hay delivery coming on Monday, we usually run out on 175 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,080 the day and swap to the next Bale of, you know, Bale of hay 176 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,880 in the next batch of hay. So I've just learned that I need 177 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,680 to now make sure I keep a couple of bales of hay to sort of mix 178 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:33,680 in. Do I Claire from from one batch 179 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:36,480 to another? Yeah, it's a it's a good thing 180 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,080 it does. Again, it does sound like maybe 181 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,440 going over the top. But ultimately, if we are really 182 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,320 trying to keep a horse's gut as happy and healthy as it can do, 183 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,000 yes, it is worthwhile. You know, some horses seem to 184 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400 cope with quite rapid changes in forestry. 185 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,040 When I talk about this, sometimes I'll get owners 186 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,320 saying, oh, I've never done that. 187 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,240 My horses have always been fine. Well, that's kind of just lucky 188 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,040 and and, you know, we want to as horse owners avoid, you know, 189 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,240 avoid any risk of colic because it's just such a horrible 190 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,080 condition for us and our horses. And so, yeah, ideally we should. 191 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,040 Now obviously, if the different batch of pea is quite similar, 192 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,400 you might well be OK. And especially if you've got 193 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,960 like a diverse species medal and you're changing to another 194 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,160 diverse species medal made around the same time, because 195 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,800 the grass changes most in composition due to when it's cut 196 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,360 actually more even more so than the species of grass in there. 197 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,360 Then you might obviously not have to be so pedantic about 198 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:26,920 this. But it's where you get, you 199 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,800 know, 1 batch that's really quite stocky late cut. 200 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,760 And then the next batch comes in it's earlier cut. 201 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,560 That's quite a difference to the horse's gut. 202 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,280 Microbiome. Yeah, I'm glad you've mentioned 203 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,680 that, because also I'm sure I'm not alone in the fact that at 204 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,880 the minute we're trying to get every scrap of hay that we can. 205 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,640 Yeah. And our hay deliverers often 206 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,840 don't give you a choice. You might have sort of the hay 207 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,680 one time, then it's quite lush, sort of Meadow hay, sometimes a 208 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,040 bit greener, sometimes it's more yellowy and more dried. 209 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,440 You know, I know that we don't get much control or say over the 210 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,200 hay that we cut. We're just thankful for when 211 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,080 that Hayden comes in and there's hay to be bought. 212 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,160 So really interesting, Claire. And that's made me think about 213 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,440 keeping a few bales behind and sort of mixing them up, 214 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,120 mismatching them up over a period of did you say 7 days, 215 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,600 Claire, or few days? Yeah, well, a few days if it's 216 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,960 pretty similar. If it's very different forage, 217 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,080 then longer. And if it's hay to halage or all 218 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,080 the other way around, even longer. 219 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,360 Yeah. And you've mentioned the big C 220 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,080 Our next topic is colic. We are in these colder months, 221 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,280 Claire, where we're all terrified of colic striking and 222 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,040 lots of different types as we know of colic and and things to 223 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,720 watch out for. But what can we do in terms of 224 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,520 feeding to try and avoid colic if it's possible? 225 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,560 Yeah, We can certainly reduce the risk of colic because we do 226 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,160 have some good research studies, they're called epidemiological 227 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,240 studies where they look at populations of horses and the 228 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,000 risk for different diseases. And there is certainly research 229 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,760 to show that if we ink this is kind of the other way around. 230 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,680 But if we make rapid changes in forage, especially going from 231 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:03,720 grass to all hay or halage and if we feed over a a certain 232 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,680 number of kilos of concentrate feed and then that increased 233 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:11,600 those two in like 2 actions or interventions will increase the 234 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,680 risk of colic. But I wouldn't note that the 235 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:18,200 concentrate feed research was might well be we haven't got 236 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,000 the, the the details on it, but it might well be traditional 237 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,080 grain based concentrate feed. So the same might not apply to 238 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,840 our lovely. I say lovely because it's so 239 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,320 much more horse friendly, our modern day high digestible 240 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,920 fibre, low starch horse feeds that we have that concentrates. 241 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:38,320 So over a few, over 3 kilos of traditional concentrate feed 242 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,800 does increase the risk of colic and and also rapid changes of 243 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,920 forage type of forage will increase the risk of colic. 244 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,560 So staying on top of these two factors will help reduce the 245 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,120 risk. And then making sure horses are 246 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,480 well hydrated, that's also going to help reduce the risk. 247 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,280 There's a few more factors, but these would be the most 248 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,120 important. But like I I want to just stress 249 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,240 that I don't mean any concentrate feed is bad because 250 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,040 I don't want horse owners of poor doers to suddenly cut out 251 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,320 all the concentrate feed. The research on the concentrate 252 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,880 feed was the old fashioned high starch type of feeds. 253 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,160 And what is it, Claire, about these colder months that mean 254 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,160 that colic is more likely? Yeah. 255 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,320 Vets aren't always in agreement with this, but I guess it's most 256 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,480 likely to be that that well, first of all, the horse's 257 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,720 hydration. Generally many horses do drink 258 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,760 less when the water's very cold and that's why like I say, it's 259 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,280 not overdoing it to add hot water to horse's water or do 260 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,040 something else to encourage them to drink. 261 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:37,880 And then also there's, there's probably other factors. 262 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,760 It's very difficult with research studies to work out 263 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,680 whether something just associated or it's actually 264 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,040 causative that causation versus association. 265 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,160 So it might be that our horses are moving around less, like if 266 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,640 they're stable more, which many are because of especially in the 267 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,040 UK because of the state of our ground in the winter. 268 00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:57,400 And so they're moving a bit less and they are on a higher dried 269 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,600 forage, you know, conserved forage diet, like hay diet. 270 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,400 Those are factors that could well increase the risk of colic 271 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,160 because actually coming into stables from being turned out 272 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,240 all the time is a risk factor as well. 273 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,600 But we sometimes just can't get around that. 274 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,920 It'd be lovely if we could all keep our horses outside in big, 275 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,760 huge spaces all the time. But, you know, sometimes that's 276 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,600 just not possible. So certainly, maybe the colder 277 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,680 weather is linked to increased risk of colic for some of these 278 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:23,720 factors. Yeah. 279 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,760 I've had guests say on curious equestrian, oh, I've had horses 280 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,920 live out my entire life as a horse keeper and we've never had 281 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,520 a bout of colic and they swear by that. 282 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,840 Do you think, Claire, there is some truth in that that may be 283 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,720 keeping them out on grass is actually, you know, all all year 284 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,240 round is is is one way to try and avoid colic? 285 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,280 Well, I would say yes, if you can keep. 286 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,000 Are you, I would have said in the past just yes, but I've seen 287 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,760 it. I've seen horses kept out 24/7 288 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,440 done very badly where owners have been trying to do well and 289 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,680 trying to give the horses more freedom, movement to, you know, 290 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,280 freedom to move around, being in a herd, being outdoors on grass. 291 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,960 But they haven't actually had the facility to do it. 292 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,880 So fields that are too small and just turned to plowed mud, you 293 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,400 know, lack of different feeding stations or lack of shelter. 294 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,440 So if it's done well, then yes is the answer to your question. 295 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,520 But we have to be really careful that we can actually give them a 296 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,320 suitable environment when we're trying to keep them out 24/7. 297 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,640 Yeah, because I have seen it done really badly. 298 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,920 I'm afraid to see. And really, badly, really 299 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,520 interesting you mentioned that these different points are taken 300 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,160 into account, the really boggy ground, the fact there's no 301 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,160 forage left. And actually it's quite a 302 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,560 difficult environment for the horse to be in because of course 303 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,280 we think of turn out as being the answer, don't we? 304 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,120 But actually, if it's just a very small square box of mud, 305 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,400 that is isn't any good either for our horses. 306 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,800 No, you're absolutely right. And I, I like the fact that 307 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,840 we're highlighting this because as I say, I have had owners come 308 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,200 to me that have tried to do it say at livery yard where they 309 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,000 haven't been able to really have the facility or the lifestyle 310 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,640 for the horse they want. And the horse is just quite 311 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,400 unwell by the spring. Because the other thing to 312 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,840 remember it's not nutrition, but horses do need to lie down to 313 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,400 get proper deep sleep. They do sleep standing up, but 314 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,560 they do have to lie down to get proper deep sleep. 315 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,920 And if they're not comfortable to lie down because of mud, uh, 316 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,760 being in too small a space withhold of other horses or for 317 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,040 whatever other reason, umm, then they will suffer from sleep 318 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,440 deprivation and that's very harmful to them just like it is 319 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,880 to us. Umm, so we've got to bear in 320 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,120 mind these kind of things. And like I said, we just have to 321 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,040 be careful that in trying to do our very best for horses that we 322 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,240 haven't actually caused more problems than we had previously. 323 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,840 I mean, thankfully nowadays, umm, we've got loads of options 324 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,360 for like ground cover that we can do without planning 325 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,000 permission because there's temporary mats and all sorts of 326 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,680 things. And I, I often post on my social 327 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,560 media, my Facebook account, asking owners to show me what 328 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 they're doing because it gives inspiration to other owners of 329 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,600 how we can just make the best of what we've got but not have our 330 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,560 horses just living in deep mud, which is not good for them. 331 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,120 Yeah. I loved what you posted last 332 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,640 night, Claire, which was a friend, a friends of yours, 333 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,319 horse out in the fields, but then with mats, with the hey 334 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,160 post in at the side of the field. 335 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,119 And then I saw again, obviously lots of interesting comments 336 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,400 start appearing. Oh, you know, are they just 337 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,400 stable mats? Will they eventually sink into 338 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,480 the mud? What was the material that the 339 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,359 horse was standing on? Well, I have to say that 340 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,400 scenario if for anybody that hasn't seen it was were just 341 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,520 rubber mats on top of the ground, but that is free 342 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,920 draining ground. It doesn't get deep mud and bog. 343 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,120 So absolutely if you've got very wet ground or clay with springs 344 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:41,240 like I have in part of my field, that wouldn't work. 345 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,440 So you have to be very conscious of what kind of ground you have, 346 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,720 the footfall it's going to get, et cetera, et cetera. 347 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,160 And that's not going to work in every scenario. 348 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,520 But yeah, she has got very free draining ground. 349 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,240 But that picture was from quite a few years ago before it became 350 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,520 quite commonplace to use these ground cover mats. 351 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,280 I think it's just important to remember that if our horses are 352 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,120 spending 75% of the time eating forage and their grass has run 353 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,840 out, we do want to be careful with what they're standing in. 354 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,200 Now, for some owners, you might think, oh, that's obvious. 355 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,800 And yes, you'd think it would be. 356 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,480 But you know, I do keep seeing scenarios where owners are 357 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,600 trying to get the horses out of stables and but they're ending 358 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,080 up in conditions that really aren't favourable and that 359 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,360 aren't particularly natural either. 360 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,760 And what can we do, Claire, that doesn't require planning 361 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,200 permission 'cause I always get confused with what requires 362 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,200 planning and what doesn't with hard standing. 363 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,760 Yeah, it's a good question. Well first of all I say I'm not 364 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,800 a planner, so please, I don't want to get someone that's. 365 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,520 Gonna move about? The nutritionist is now being 366 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,040 asked about hard standing. However, I have actually got, I 367 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,880 do know a little bit, imagine it was a few years ago now, I did 368 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,880 apply for planning for a few different bits and pieces at my 369 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,200 facility that I had in Wiltshire. 370 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,400 It's been a few years since I left that and for about 12 years 371 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,480 it was a great place to experiment with all sorts of 372 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,280 things. But as far as I remember from 373 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,680 them. But first of all, this is a 374 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,360 caveat. Please do check your local 375 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,360 planning regs. But if you apply, if you do 376 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,080 something to the ground that's permanent, you're supposed to 377 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,080 have planning permission for most of that. 378 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,120 Sometimes you can get permissive rights next to your house or 379 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,400 whatever, but you, you know. It's if it's. 380 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,960 Impermanent, it can be removed. Generally you don't need 381 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,560 planning for it. And then owners do come up with 382 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,400 very clever ways around that. But I would say just if you want 383 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,480 to be sure that whatever you're spending money on it isn't going 384 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,400 to be causing the council to come knocking on your door and 385 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,840 challenge you, then it's best to actually check with them. 386 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,760 I always think with things like that, you're better off 387 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,040 contacting them and asking for help. 388 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,160 That certainly worked for me when I did it, rather than 389 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,880 trying to do it on the secret. And then you don't see it if you 390 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,480 go and speak to them and ask for help. 391 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,200 If you've got help for helpful council planners, they will give 392 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,680 you some information about what you can do. 393 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,640 So yeah, be careful with that because you don't want to spend 394 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,840 loads of money doing something and then be told you have to 395 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,960 take it down or remove it. Because of course, where good 396 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,120 feeding comes, you, you have to look at the ground and the hard 397 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,680 standing and the place to feed your horse, don't you? 398 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,080 And if that isn't on a yard, if it is out in the fields and 399 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,920 you're trying to wade through the mud and the bogs and the 400 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,200 swamps, we've got to find a way to feed our horses without us 401 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,320 all sinking, haven't we? Including including the precious 402 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,280 hay and forage and and the buckets that get thrown up in 403 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,760 the air by the horses tossing them aside. 404 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,840 So a great point as well to mention the hard standing and 405 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,160 think about where. You're feeding the food so that 406 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,280 it doesn't all end up in the ground, soaking away and being 407 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,600 wasted. You know, I wouldn't mind adding 408 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,280 something to that because no, you're absolutely right. 409 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,640 It's such a good point. And this is the kind of the art 410 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,800 of feeding where we leave nutrient requirements aside and 411 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,200 we think about all these practical things. 412 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,760 And it's obviously in some of yards not even allowed to put 413 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,560 forage out in the field, which can be really tricky. 414 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,040 But you mentioned about making sure we savor. 415 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,320 Hey, I mean, hey, you know, he's precious. 416 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,200 We don't want to be wasting any. And I quite often see owners 417 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,640 like throwing hay in one pile thinking that that's a good way 418 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,560 around it because they'll just mess up one part of the field. 419 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,280 But that can cause a whole lot of mulch and even deeper mud for 420 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,040 the horses standing. So often you're if you, if you 421 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,560 can't do hard standing, it's not an option at your own place or 422 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,320 at livery. You're better off just actually 423 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,640 putting piles in different places and then scraping up any 424 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,400 wet leftover. Yeah, it's more work, but we 425 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,480 just don't want our horses standing in mud, which is kind 426 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,120 of half mulched hay for hours on end. 427 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,880 Yeah. Yeah, great, great point. 428 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,640 And Claire, when do we know whether we need to feed hard 429 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,200 food? So you know anything that isn't 430 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,120 our our basic chaffs or balances, When do we know 431 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,600 whether we need to or not? That that's a great question. 432 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,120 And actually the answer to that is, well, there's there's a 433 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,600 two-part answer. The first part is they are going 434 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,440 to be starting to lose weight. And by weight, I mean body fat. 435 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,440 So once they start getting thinner, which we're going to 436 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,520 pick up from our constant monitoring potentially with that 437 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,000 weight tape every couple of weeks and keeping a record, then 438 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,640 we know that the basically they need more calories or energy. 439 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,760 We, we use the time calories. It's not actually correct for 440 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,680 horse energy, but it it helps communicate that we're talking 441 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,000 about dietary energy. So that loss in body fat means 442 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,000 that the horse is actually having to use up their fat 443 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,880 stores. This sounds obvious, but it's 444 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,000 worth a mention. And then that's the time that we 445 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,680 think, well, OK, we need to increase our horses energy or 446 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,480 calories in their diet. We might be able to do that with 447 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640 forage first before we look at the bucket feed. 448 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,960 But if we're already feeding ad Lib forage and we're already 449 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,240 got, we can't access the higher nutritional value forage because 450 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:30,840 we've got what we've got, say a livery yard. 451 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,880 That's when we need to put more in the bucket, in the bucket 452 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,520 feed. But then the second part of that 453 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,440 would be the other reason we might want to add bucket feed is 454 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,680 if the protein intake of the horse is questionable or too 455 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,160 low. That gets a bit more complicated 456 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,480 to assess because you can't assess from looking at the horse 457 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,080 until they're in a real deficient state. 458 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,480 We have to then just basically study the diet to work out where 459 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,280 they're going to need extra protein in the feed bowl. 460 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,680 But the calories or the energy is the first one. 461 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,800 And that's the first step I would say in a balanced diet is 462 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,640 assessing a horse's body fat level, how it's changing. 463 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,400 And that will tell us precisely what we need to do with the 464 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,720 calories in the diet. And for our good doers that are 465 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,520 out on limited grass, out in the mud, braving the colder months 466 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,240 and they're on adlib hay, we've got a range of things that we 467 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,320 can give them. People mentioned giving them, 468 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,600 you know, a bucket full of chaff or balances, licks. 469 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,600 What do we realistically need to give our good doers that don't 470 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,120 have any, you know, apparent health conditions and have have 471 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,000 got a nice covering of weight on them, perhaps need to lose a few 472 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,360 pounds or two. What should we be giving them if 473 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,160 there's not much grass in the field but yet they're still 474 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,560 slightly overweight? And that is such a great 475 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,880 question, isn't it? Because what we don't want to do 476 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,800 is have them getting really hungry while they're out, 477 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,920 because it obviously depends whether they're in half the time 478 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,320 and out or they're out all the time. 479 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,280 But once grass starts to get well, actually, I'll start with 480 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,080 how to balance that diet 1st. And then I'll talk about what 481 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,960 happens if grass intake gets too low. 482 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,120 And the first one is, yeah, vitamins and minerals. 483 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,200 They just need a really good multi spec vitamin and mineral 484 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,920 supplement. Now not all of them are good. 485 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,840 That's why I publish free lists for owners because not all of 486 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,600 them are good. So if it's broad spectrum 487 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,560 vitamin and mineral supplement in something palatable, which 488 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,880 might not be the lowest calorie possible chaff, we don't want to 489 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,520 give them extra calories in the bucket feeder. 490 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,200 They need to lose it. But we might need to add 491 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,560 something palatable to get them to eat the vitamins minerals 492 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,880 which is really important. Plus a salt block, that's how 493 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,680 you would balance that forage based diet and especially if you 494 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,120 are restricting them to get them to lose body fat. 495 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,760 But we also do have to be careful of them running out of 496 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,480 enough forage because one that's just not really good for their 497 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,280 their physical or mental health. But also that's when they can 498 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,880 start chewing on what they shouldn't be, whether it's 499 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,920 fences or poisonous plants. We can also get hard aggression 500 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,440 if they're getting hungry or, you know, too much movement 501 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,680 around gateways and you get older poaching. 502 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,560 So yes, ideally you do want to be supplementing forage in the 503 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,680 field if you're feeling like they're getting hungry. 504 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,160 I have got horse owners that do amazing things like count every 505 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,440 pile of droppings and wow to work out whether the horses need 506 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,440 forage in the field. I mean it's not keeping up with 507 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,840 the poo picking isn't it? Let alone counting every day. 508 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,720 But I think a simple, A more simple guise than that of 509 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,960 actually whether horses need forage out in the field as if 510 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,960 they eat it. They obviously if they're too 511 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,840 fat and they're not losing weight, we've got to be a bit 512 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,120 careful. And then we might have to look 513 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,160 at straw, salt, hay, which is a pain putting it out in the 514 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,520 field. But if we're having them 515 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,720 maintain a healthy weight or they're just gradually losing, 516 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,280 then umm, a good indication of whether they need forage or not 517 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,520 out in the field as if they're eating it. 518 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,200 If they're eating every less and less scrap of it, they probably 519 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,840 do need that extra fibre because we've got to think about their 520 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,680 total milk intake but also their fibre intake as well-being high 521 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,880 enough. Yeah. 522 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,480 Oh, there's so many things to think about, Claire. 523 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,480 And I've got to ask you, has your job been made more 524 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,040 difficult as a nutritionist, considering now we have more 525 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,600 extreme seasons and also our seasons are changing in terms of 526 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,640 unseasonable temperatures, unpredictable weather 527 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,960 conditions, more storms, more heavy rain? 528 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:19,000 Yeah, that's a good question. I've not really noticed that in 529 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,160 terms of I suppose the only thing I'm not really noticed 530 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,440 that that much difference. I think I have noticed like I've 531 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,680 been doing this job now of well, I was going to say 100 years, 532 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,160 not quite 2 to 2 1/2 decades. What I've noticed is that owners 533 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,800 are aware of feeding more forage nowadays, which is a good thing. 534 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:41,440 And and they're also, I would say I haven't got data to prove 535 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,640 it. I need to look into this. 536 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,800 I'll get a student to look into it. 537 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,280 But our hay and hailages are better nutritional quality I 538 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,880 would say than they were. So I think that like as well 539 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,440 with grass growing sometimes all winter because we don't have 540 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,480 these really long coat spells then. 541 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,480 And I have noticed that some owners are struggling to keep 542 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,840 horses slim enough and fulfill their forage requirements. 543 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,840 That can be a struggle. And that might be partly because 544 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,400 we've got more grass growing in terms of it's being, you know, 545 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,200 milder winters. We need the soil to drop below 546 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,480 5° for a length of time before the grass gets really inhibited. 547 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,320 And it's still above 5° in December, which I mean from the 548 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,320 the many winters that I can think of is is unheard of 549 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,680 compared to say like 10 years ago when it would be properly 550 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,760 cold and frosty in December. Yeah, yeah. 551 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,160 And I mean you, you. The grass often does keep 552 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,240 growing throughout winter, so we can't assume that winter 553 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,400 pastures have nothing to offer the horses anymore. 554 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,240 Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard and 555 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,280 really interesting you you bring that up because there's a lot of 556 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,280 conversation that we have on curious question about trying to 557 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,280 reduce horses weight, those that are out on grass and making sure 558 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,040 they've got turn out when the grass is constantly growing and 559 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,400 it's more sugary. How difficult that is And how 560 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,440 many people talking about grazing muzzles and all the 561 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,760 different sort of apparatus that, you know, sort of slow 562 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,320 feeding hay balls or or hay Nets and doubling hay Nets as well to 563 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,880 try and reduce feeding. All to try and get the reduce 564 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,960 the speed at which the horse eats and to reduce the calories. 565 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,720 It's a real struggle. What sort of is a commonly asked 566 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,760 question with you, Claire? When your clients ring you for 567 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,960 advice, what sort of questions do you see coming up repeatedly? 568 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,480 Yeah, basically just what you've said. 569 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,560 You're absolutely right. It's how do we fulfil the horses 570 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,200 need to chew and fulfil their need to actually have trickle 571 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,120 feeding and not be fasting for any more than four hours 572 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,320 ideally, but maximum 6 say overnight, but still limit their 573 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,120 calorie intake. And, and, and it's not 574 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,280 surprising like if you look at the typical calorie or 575 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,600 digestible energy in a forage like hay, never mind grass, 576 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,960 which tends to be higher. And then you look at horses 577 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,120 requirements when they're out of work and they need to lose 578 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,880 weight. The two just don't match up. 579 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,040 But be like us trying to lose weight where the only food we've 580 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,600 got is being a little bit over the top here, like Krispy Kreme 581 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,040 doughnuts And, yeah, things we would limit, you know, things 582 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:00,760 that you would limit. Yeah. 583 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,680 So owners do struggles because in the old days, I'm afraid to 584 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,920 say, it was much more common to stick your horse in the stable 585 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,640 and feed them too little forage. Just give them a, a really 586 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,680 meager forage ration, and that's how you control the weight. 587 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,600 But thankfully we know that's not ideal anymore and we don't 588 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,640 want our horses fasting for hours and hours on end. 589 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,400 But it does mean that yes, you're right, we we need to 590 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,160 ideally slow down the rate of their intake. 591 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,280 And the problem is we do know that like once they do get 592 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,520 overweight and they have maybe insulin dysregulation, which is 593 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,120 part of the EMS syndrome or what it, what used to be called EMS, 594 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,400 we've got new terms for it now. And their appetite gets 595 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,040 disturbed. So they end up being more driven 596 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,840 to eat as well. And then it becomes like a 597 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,520 vicious circle. So we, I think it's, I do have 598 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,760 this question a lot from owners. And I think it's important as 599 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,440 horse owners of good doers that we try to be creative about how 600 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,520 we can get the calorie content of the forage down enough to 601 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,320 feed enough to be healthy for the horse and or reduce their 602 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,960 rate of intake. And like you say, there's all 603 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,400 sorts of apparatus we have to have nowadays and it is a bit 604 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,000 more complicated. But ultimately we're going to 605 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,600 have a healthier horse if we can have them in a grazing muzzle 606 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,120 where they can be out for longer and not just shutting the stable 607 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,560 to limit the grass intake. And they're with their hard 608 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,640 mates because then they haven't got to be on like a really over 609 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,040 grazed patch and they're munching away continuously, but 610 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,960 just at a much lower rate because the grazing muzzle that 611 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,920 that's going to be healthier than, like I say, being put on a 612 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,520 starvation patch away from hard mates and or being shut in for 613 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,120 too long. So it's great that we've got all 614 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,800 these options now. And it's interesting, isn't it 615 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:44,080 Claire, that every aspect of the horses care plays its part in in 616 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,280 your work as a nutritionist. So we've already been talking 617 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,720 about turn out and stabling and hard standing if they're 618 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,200 outdoors and how we feed the hay and and the hard food and then 619 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,200 bucket feed. Another factor is rugs. 620 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,640 And I know you posted this on your Facebook page and got a 621 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,400 huge great sort of out roar of comments of all different 622 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,120 opinions, which I'm sure must happen to you regularly when 623 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,760 you've unleashed people on Facebook. 624 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,360 But the big time of year, you know, the colder months, the big 625 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,000 debate comes out to rug or not to rug? 626 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,800 Where do you stand on this? Yeah, it's a good question, I 627 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,920 suppose, although I'm a cough and nutritionist and that's the 628 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,200 majority of my work. I am also a horse owner. 629 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,840 I've always owned horses, so I've got. 630 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,120 A lot more knowledge and experience than that. 631 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,240 And of course I've my masters degrees in sports science and 632 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,960 exercise. So I'm more I, I kind of think 633 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,120 I'm more than just a nutritionist. 634 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,600 But also you're right like they are. 635 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,120 And the practice of feeding is way more than nutrient 636 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,840 requirements when it comes to RUG. 637 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,560 It's the whole horse, isn't it? It plays the food. 638 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,080 You have to look at everything from where the horse is to if 639 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,960 it's wearing a rug or not and it all it all plays a part. 640 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,480 Yeah, I I think so. And I think, you know, if you 641 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,200 just concentrate on nutrient requirements and delivery, 642 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,520 you're going to miss out a big part of helping horse owners 643 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,200 with their horses health. And the rugging is important 644 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,440 actually, because you can save a lot of calories for pruders if 645 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,960 you rug them up well. But on the other hand, 646 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,160 unfortunately, it seems to be nowadays that owners sometimes 647 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,760 lose confidence with their own abilities and then they end up 648 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,200 swinging too far the other way. And then we get horses being 649 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,520 over rugged, which is equally unhealthy, probably more 650 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,560 unhealthy actually. And I make a joke and I maybe 651 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,920 shouldn't, but I'm kind of old fashioned and I'm long in the 652 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,960 tooth as well. And I think just if your horse 653 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,800 needs a rug, rug of them. If your horse doesn't need to 654 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,760 rug, don't rug them. And I know that's 655 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,280 oversimplifying it because there might be more involved than 656 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,640 that, but I think sometimes I owners maybe lose their 657 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,040 confidence and their own abilities and they get so caught 658 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,880 up with what they're reading online, what their friends are 659 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,720 doing. Because as we all know, there's 660 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,720 many people in the horse world that are very vocal and very 661 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,240 sure of their opinions. But we have to remember, I 662 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,640 think, to look at the horse in front of us and really just work 663 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,360 out what's going to work for our individual horse. 664 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,560 If you look at research studies, the big problem in researching 665 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,280 horses is the huge wide individual variation. 666 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,920 And it means statistically significant results for most 667 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,200 things are really difficult to get because horse populations 668 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,440 vary so widely. And that's absolutely important 669 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,960 with our own horses and ponies. What works for one is not going 670 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,000 to work for other for another. So I think, you know, rugging 671 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,240 can be very important, but it can be completely unnecessary. 672 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,880 It completely depends on your individual horse, what you want 673 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,240 to do with them, how they fare. Not even just breed type, 674 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,720 because you get some breeds that you'd expect to do well or some 675 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,240 sort of individuals from a breed you'd expect to do well without 676 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,640 a rug that actually do better with. 677 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,360 And that's why it's so important to look at the horse in front of 678 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,960 us and just assess as we go along. 679 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,640 Where I think it becomes a problem is where owners have a 680 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,840 rule or a principle that they believe in. 681 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,720 And I've done this in the past. I'm, I'm, you know, so I'm as 682 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,600 guilty as the next person, but I'm, hopefully I'm a little bit 683 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,760 wiser now where we've got these principles that we try and apply 684 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,680 to the horse rather than saying actually, what does our horse 685 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,600 really need? I've got my beliefs and 686 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,320 principles and I'll use them to guide myself, but what's my 687 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,000 horse telling me that they actually need? 688 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,840 I think that's the most important way of ensuring our 689 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,920 horses are really they have a the best life they possibly can. 690 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,440 I saw a really good bit of advice on your Facebook page, 691 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,280 Claire, and it was looking at the horse as to whether it's 692 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,120 cold or not. Because a lot of people 693 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,719 automatically, like you say, deciding that, oh, it's cold, I 694 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,760 feel cold, therefore my horse must be cold. 695 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,960 But actually checking the base of the ear and under the armpit 696 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,239 to see if your horse feels cold to the touch and if they feel 697 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,840 warm, then they're, they're coping and they're OK. 698 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,639 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 699 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,080 You know, you get these rug guides and I can see the 700 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,440 usefulness of them as a guide, but we've got to be really 701 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,880 careful that we're not just looking at a bit of paper and 702 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,239 seeing, you know, reading out, you know, this temperature, this 703 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,040 type of horse needs this many gram fill in their rug. 704 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,120 It depends on so many other factors. 705 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:58,280 It depends on their body fat level. 706 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,640 It depends on the amount of shelter they have. 707 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,680 It depends on the rain, if it's raining or not. 708 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,280 It depends on if they can move around. 709 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,000 There's so many other factors that and and also I'm I'm 710 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,360 actually all for rightly or wrongly, I'm all for horse 711 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,960 owners stepping up and taking responsibility and guess what, 712 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,040 you might get it wrong, but it's not a disaster. 713 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,920 If your horse was too cold one night, just adjust for the next 714 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,720 night. And I think because, you know, 715 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,880 especially with our the online, I'm kind of ranting it on my 716 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,880 sofa box. I bet especially with the kind 717 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:33,160 of the online kind of pressure of people, not not necessarily 718 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,120 bullying, but everybody trying to or not every some people 719 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,960 trying to assert their opinion and and make others maybe not 720 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,880 not look so good. And I think owners get a bit 721 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,160 nervous about and unconfident about what they're doing. 722 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,120 And I, and I think that's a shame because I'm, I'm all for 723 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,640 trying to encourage horse owners to just like I say, step up, 724 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,560 take responsibility and not worry if you do get it wrong, 725 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,880 because we're all going to get it wrong. 726 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,600 We're never all going to, we're never always going to get it 727 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,760 right. Everything we see on Instagram 728 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,800 is all when it goes right, generally, but it's not a 729 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,880 disaster as long as you're learn from your mistakes and realise 730 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,760 that your horse maybe does need a rug or doesn't. 731 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,520 Like I've had owners that have taken rugs off because they've 732 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,560 decided that's the way to go. And then the horse has got 733 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,200 really bad reins scold and then they feel really bad. 734 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,320 And it's like just learn from that and be aware that if you're 735 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,560 changing something that's been working for you and then you 736 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,400 question it and you change it, just be really careful to 737 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,240 monitor that horse and just look in front like look at them and 738 00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,240 monitor them every every time you visit them. 739 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,800 And then you'll pick up these things earlier and you can make 740 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,560 adjustments. And how do you cope, Claire? 741 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,840 Managing your Facebook page, you know with 10s of thousands of 742 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,880 followers, you get outrageous comments on some of your posts 743 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,680 and everyone sees that every idea is up for debate and and 744 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,960 jumps in with their opinion, but sometimes in quite an abrasive 745 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,840 way. How do you cope as a 746 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,920 professional in your field but also managing your your Facebook 747 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,280 page and having that onslaught from people? 748 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,640 Well, do you know, I'm without wanting to get away from 749 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,000 nutrition onto political views or whatever I have, I am a great 750 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,600 proponent of free speech. I do think it's important that 751 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,240 we're allowed to voice our thoughts. 752 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:11,960 Maybe because I'm a stubborn self thinker, I don't want to be 753 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,360 shut down. But no, joking apart, I think 754 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,840 it's really helpful if we are able to keep, keep free speech 755 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,440 going. And in the early days of my 756 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,600 social media, I was very reluctant to shut anybody down 757 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,440 because I didn't think I should blah, blah, blah. 758 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,000 I kept quite stressed about some people being rude on my Facebook 759 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,880 page and more so rude to others on there. 760 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,720 And I didn't mind so much. And then someone said to me 761 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,800 once, well, your Facebook page is a bit like your home. 762 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,520 Like if somebody was marching in with really muddy boots on your 763 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,520 nice carpets, you just say to them, out you go, you're not 764 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,080 welcome until you take your boots off. 765 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,720 So I realised that if I treated my Facebook page like that, like 766 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,200 if, if you, if you're respectful, you're very welcome 767 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,080 to come in and talk. And I love to be and I love 768 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,160 different opinions. But the minute you start being 769 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,920 rude or disrespectful to me or others, off you go to go. 770 00:37:58,560 --> 00:37:59,680 And I use that. Nice. 771 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,640 So I think it's really lovely that we can keep open debate. 772 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,200 But you do get the people that don't want open debate, that 773 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,440 don't want to learn that are rude. 774 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,920 And I get a lot less than nowadays. 775 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,800 I think they realise I just, I just block them now. 776 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,400 I don't even write a polite message saying would you like to 777 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,680 reconsider? Unless I feel like they have got 778 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,360 something to share and they've just been a bit, I thought this 779 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,240 about how they've shared it, but I think the main thing is I want 780 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:25,400 my my page to be kind of a safe page for everybody to voice 781 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,560 their opinions. So if anybody is rude to 782 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,440 somebody else, they're out straight away. 783 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:30,800 I. Love that. 784 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,760 I love that concept that it is like treating it like coming 785 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,400 into your house and it's how you behave because we can all share 786 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,360 opinions and experience, can't we? 787 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,920 But I always say that it's, it's not what is said, it's how it's 788 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,800 said, isn't it? And on Facebook, you can often 789 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,920 see, you know, capital letters, exclamation marks, insulting 790 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,480 language. And you just think we all have a 791 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,760 common passion here, which is our horses. 792 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,800 We're all in the. Same boats in terms of 793 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,160 experiencing, trying to look after our animals, trying to 794 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,760 make sure that they've got the best care. 795 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,640 We're all trying to work out which is the best way forward. 796 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,680 Why does it have to be so personal? 797 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,920 Arsenal and some people, they take great offence don't they, 798 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,160 if if someone's doing something differently to them. 799 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,560 Yeah, and I think, I mean, this is a lesson for life really, 800 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:17,600 isn't it? Not just their horses. 801 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:23,840 And I think, I think it's, it's my, my aim or my belief is that 802 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,240 we can have different opinions, but we can still have a cup of 803 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:28,560 tea and have a chat. You know, we don't all have to 804 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,400 agree. I think it's a shame if just 805 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,160 because somebody has a different opinion or a different way of 806 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,520 keeping their animals, as long as their animals have a good 807 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,800 life and their welfare is good, then let's just agree to 808 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,520 disagree on certain things. Yeah, definitely. 809 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,800 Did you ever envisage, Claire, that your Facebook page would 810 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,600 grow in numbers and that you would have, you know, 10's and 811 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,760 hundreds of comments on each of your posts with people debating? 812 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,440 No, I didn't. I was very sceptical and a bit 813 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,160 scared of social media in the early days. 814 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,120 And the problem is I do have the problem is with social media, as 815 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,280 I'm sure you're probably aware yourself, is that you know, you, 816 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,600 you kind of have to nowadays because it's a really good way 817 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,840 of, of being there and you know. Awareness for your brand or your 818 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,880 business. But I'm a busy practitioner so 819 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,080 it's difficult to find the time sometimes because I'm actually 820 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,000 busy helping horse owners and also building courses and all 821 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,440 the things I'm trying to do to, to be able to reach horse owners 822 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,840 all around the world. So that's why I started and it 823 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,680 became quite popular. I started doing little bits of 824 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,200 content. I was riding my horse on, on the 825 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,480 lanes. I guess she's very well trained, 826 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,240 blessed her and she didn't mind me speaking into my phone whilst 827 00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:43,680 I was. I haven't done so much of that 828 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,240 because she's not been written for a little while, but that 829 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,880 will come back. But yeah, and I had no idea, but 830 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,920 it's been things for social media is a brilliant way of 831 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,800 connecting and sharing information and giving people 832 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,480 access to free resources as well. 833 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,120 Because, you know, not everybody can afford to invest in a one to 834 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,240 one nutrition consult, consultation with a qualified 835 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,360 nutritionist. So actually having that ability 836 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,520 to get free high quality information that's unbiased and 837 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,520 not attached to a company, more companies feeds because there is 838 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,800 some good information from some of the companies, but obviously 839 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,080 it's going to be biased that they can't help that. 840 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,360 I just felt that was really important. 841 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,400 But it is becoming a little bit of a wild woolly monster in 842 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,040 terms of trying to manage it all. 843 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,400 So yeah, I probably have to rethink of it for, for next 844 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,400 year. But I've I've learnt loads from 845 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,680 the comments. Never mind me helping people and 846 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,600 teaching people, it's you know what it's like. 847 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,160 It's fascinating when you do open up conversations and you 848 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,400 learn a lot yourself. Yeah, it's been great. 849 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,120 And I. Go on, Claire. 850 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,360 Sorry. I was just going to say I was 851 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,680 just a little add on. I get on my soapbox and I don't 852 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,320 know when to stop. I can get really, I can get 853 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,200 really useful information which helps me serve horse owners 854 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,240 better. Like if I run polls about what 855 00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:59,480 subjects they want to have covered or like I'll I'll, I'll 856 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,800 run little questions about which grazing muzzle that you find 857 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,400 most helpful for your horse. That gives me really useful 858 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,280 information from horse is about what they need help with and 859 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,160 what they're finding useful, which is a lot cheaper for me to 860 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,280 do than run actual in person groups, you know, like focus 861 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,080 groups or something. So it can be really, really 862 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,440 useful. And I love that you mentioned 863 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,840 that, you know, you are a qualified professional and yet 864 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,880 you're also having to be a social media manager. 865 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,960 And I saw a really funny video on Instagram where someone had 866 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,080 done a sort of an acted out scene of they they were a small 867 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,720 business owner and they were creating their products. 868 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,440 And then the realisation that they suddenly have to be like a 869 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,960 social media manager, like a social media influencer also, 870 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,120 you know, talking to camera, selling the products. 871 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,600 And then the look of horror on their face of the extra job and 872 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,280 the extra workload that they have to do to then actually 873 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,240 promote their business and take it on. 874 00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,920 It has become a whole nother job in itself. 875 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:55,120 I do want to thank you, Claire, for your generosity on your page 876 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,760 because you do give out so much free advice and information that 877 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,680 is so helpful for those who can't, as you say, afford, you 878 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,560 know, any kind of extra help. I wanted to ask you, because we 879 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,080 all have in our Diaries our farrier deadlines when we need 880 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,680 to see the vet, when we have to get dentists out. 881 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,120 Do you wish that nutritionists were part of that almost yearly 882 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,320 appraisal and yearly appointments for our horses? 883 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,800 Yeah, that's a really good point because I think often owners 884 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,480 wait till they've got a problem before they'll get a 885 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,440 nutritionist in. I think I'm more, I'm kind of 886 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,080 fortunate with the group of people that I work with or the 887 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,560 people that come to me for help now and that some just do want 888 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,600 that reassurance as part of the horses team. 889 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,080 Like you say, just check out the diet and sometimes I'll say 890 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,880 actually everything is good and they're happy with that. 891 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,240 But a lot of owners will wait till they've got a problem and 892 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,480 then it's a shame because I could have certainly helped them 893 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,480 before that point. But on the other hand, you know, 894 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,280 only owning horses is expensive and I, I can understand why 895 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,360 that's not done. But then if you have, you know, 896 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,040 your professional type horse owners will have their 897 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,880 nutritionists usually from a feed company because if they've 898 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,840 got a big account, then they'll get that for free. 899 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,720 But yeah, it's a very good point. 900 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:08,360 And I think, yes, it's easy for me to say, but we need to be 901 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,720 sure that our horses diet as well as the hoof care, tac fit, 902 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,880 veterinary care and everything is up to date. 903 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,400 And the diet such as, well, of course, it's such an important 904 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,160 factor for everything. I mean, I, I've got a little 905 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,800 quote that I say nutrition isn't everything because it isn't. 906 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,880 There's a lot more that's important, but there's nothing 907 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,560 without it. Because if you get it wrong, it 908 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,800 kind of doesn't matter how well everything else is going. 909 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,920 If you get nutrition wrong, you're not going to have an 910 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,080 optimally healthy horse. So I mean, I, I'd love to see 911 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,920 owners even just a once a year check in with what they're doing 912 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,160 with the horse's diet. That would be great. 913 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,600 Yeah, I think it is becoming more popular now there's a few 914 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,000 independent nutritionists working, which is wonderful to 915 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,240 see, like compared to 20 years ago, I think horse. 916 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,840 Owners are doing just what you said, growing. 917 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,120 There's still probably many that don't, but there's a few more 918 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,720 that are doing that now, which is wonderful. 919 00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,880 Yeah. And Claire, I've got to also ask 920 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,200 you another frequently asked question or certainly something 921 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,920 that gets us all think of this time of year. 922 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,680 And I particularly have to say during a hay crisis is those 923 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,840 talking about weighing out hay. Now, I wouldn't even know where 924 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,200 to begin. I I know what works for the 925 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,200 horses. I sort of do a bit of a juggle 926 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,600 and think, yeah, OK, that was good. 927 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,720 They didn't run out of hay yesterday and sort of make 928 00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,800 adjustments as to how they they go along day by day. 929 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,640 But how do we actually probably weigh out hay? 930 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,600 Oh, that's such a brilliant question because, and I'm glad 931 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,080 you've asked and it's great that you did ask because I think some 932 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,120 owners are a bit scared to ask because they probably feel like 933 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,520 they should know. But I probably. 934 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,880 Shouldn't I probably should buy I've always sort of done that. 935 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,240 Oh, you know, I'll sort of work it out in my head. 936 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,240 That worked yesterday. Do a bit less. 937 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:45,800 That was a bit too much. Oh yeah, a bit less there than 938 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,200 juggle it do. You know what? 939 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,200 That is good. That's the art of feeding. 940 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,080 It doesn't feel very scientific or very measured, but if that's 941 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,800 working for your horses and they haven't got health problems and 942 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,400 they're maintaining a healthy weight and they're not fasting 943 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,640 for more than four hours or six hours overnight, then you're 944 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,480 doing the right thing. But I do encourage horse owners 945 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,920 to have a spring balance in their hay barn and a set of 946 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,360 scales in their feed room because if you haven't got 947 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,320 things going so well and your horse is overweight or 948 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,840 underweight, it is. That's when it becomes much more 949 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,720 useful to actually weigh everything. 950 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,080 We should definitely, I'm getting off your forage 951 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,240 question. I'll come back to in just a 952 00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:20,880 second. We should definitely always wear 953 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,400 horses feed because we need to make sure that we're giving them 954 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,600 the full recommended amount of vitamin and mineral containing 955 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,760 products. And then we need to know the way 956 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,720 to feed if we need to adjust it in terms of concentrate feed for 957 00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,440 the bucket. Going back to the forage. 958 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,640 I mean, a good guideline would generally would be ideally we 959 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,880 want to be offering our horses ad Lib forage, free choice 960 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,720 forage so they can eat forage whenever they feel like it, 961 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,360 whether it's out in the pasture or in a stable or pen or 962 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,080 whatever. However, there are some cases 963 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,600 where if we did that, they would become overweight and they'd 964 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,360 become very unhealthy. So it's really only if they're 965 00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,560 overweight that we need to limit the amount. 966 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,520 Maybe unless you've got Sprint race horses where you might want 967 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,120 to limit the amount a little bit for weight, total body weight, 968 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,880 but that's a slight niche area. And so ad Lib if possible, then 969 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,880 limit if you need to. When it comes to actual percent 970 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,280 body weight that horses need to eat or fulfils their appetite, 971 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,200 that's not that scientific. Although we, we talk about two 972 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,280 to 2 1/2 percent body weight, dry matter intake is normal for 973 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,960 horse. We know from their appetite 974 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,720 they'll eat anything from 1.8% up to about 5% body weight, umm, 975 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,840 intake and dry matter per day. And obviously the 5% is usually 976 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,200 going to end up with an overweight horse or pony. 977 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,360 Umm, So it's a good idea to wave. 978 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,000 You don't have to unless you need to start really, umm, 979 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,120 paying more attention to your horse because they're losing too 980 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,880 much weight or they've gained too much weight. 981 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,160 And then it then it becomes a bit more complicated, umm, in 982 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,520 terms of how much to feed. But even when we're weighing 983 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,240 forage or we're restricting it, we can't feed. 984 00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:58,040 Ad libs say they have to lose weight. 985 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,560 We still want to respect this fasting, maximum fasting period 986 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,960 of ideally 4 hours during the day, six hours overnight, 987 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,640 regardless of what we're doing with body weight intake. 988 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,760 So some of the vets will say, like, you know, just drop down 989 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,080 to 1.5% intake, soak your hay, leave it at that. 990 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,600 But the trouble with that is you might end up with like a 10/12 991 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,880 hour fast overnight. And that's really unhealthy for 992 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,520 our digestive tract. So it's important to take into 993 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,400 account, I think, that fasting period as well as the amount of 994 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,560 hair. I'm getting a little bit more 995 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,160 into slightly more complicated area here, but I think it's good 996 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,080 practice to know what sort of weight of forage your horse is 997 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,200 eating over 24 hours. In terms of what you can weigh, 998 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,880 IE hair hailage. We can't really predict how much 999 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,280 grass they eat. That's a whole other 1000 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,520 complication. That does confuse the matter, 1001 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,720 doesn't it? Yeah, thank you for saying that 1002 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:49,160 because I've always heard about horses needing the adlib forage 1003 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,840 and that they should never be left without. 1004 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,360 But hearing, and I've got horses that knew, you know, they're not 1005 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,800 overweight, but they need to shed a few pounds and hearing 1006 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,600 that they can fast for four hours, I was always terrified 1007 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,600 that, oh gosh, if they're without hay for say 2 hours, 1008 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,960 they're gonna get ulcers 'cause that's what I'd heard online and 1009 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,800 that's what you know, the vet says don't let them run out of 1010 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,160 hay. So I was always sort of making 1011 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,960 sure there was always something left in the hey net for when I 1012 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,600 then next went up to to see them and to feed them. 1013 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,720 But actually knowing there is a four hour daytime fasting window 1014 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,240 could really help in terms of getting rid of those those final 1015 00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:30,080 few pounds. Yeah, it's an interesting 1. 1016 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,920 And I mean, we do need more research to prove to prove this 1017 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:34,800 one way or the other. But I think we do have to 1018 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,440 remember that horses aren't actually designed to eat 100% of 1019 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,040 the time. So although we ideally want to 1020 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,760 offer them free choice, ad Lib is another word for ad libbedum. 1021 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,520 Free choice forage for their mental and digestive tract 1022 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,400 health. It's good to have free choice 1023 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,920 forage so they can eat when they're driven to feel the need 1024 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,240 to eat. Umm, but in nature and where we 1025 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:57,280 look at behaviour studies, it's quite natural for horses to have 1026 00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,800 if they're on ad Lib forage and they've got free choice to have 1027 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,120 those periods of up to 4 hours without eating. 1028 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,120 Now, vets will often say 6 hours maximum fast because that's 1029 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,160 based on studies of when stomach health starts to decline. 1030 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,040 So stomach health doesn't really start to decline until after six 1031 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,160 hours based on the research so far, which is very limited, I 1032 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,120 have to say. And but if you study, the reason 1033 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,160 I come up with this 4 hours is that if you study all the 1034 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,800 behavioural time budget studies where they've actually recorded 1035 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,680 exactly what horses are doing given natural environments, 1036 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,680 natural lifestyles, that's why I've come up with this 4 hours 1037 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,840 because generally they won't spend longer than that between 1038 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,760 eating bouts. And of course they do naturally 1039 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,120 want to eat about 3 courses at the time. 1040 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,200 So that's where the four hours thing has come from. 1041 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:46,000 I mean, ideally, if you can find a way of lowering your horse's 1042 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,320 forage calories so that you can feed ad Lib, that's better than 1043 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,240 imposing that 4 hour fast. This is where nutrition becomes 1044 00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:57,000 very individual nuanced for the individual. 1045 00:50:57,240 --> 00:50:59,840 It depends on your horse's individual scenario and whether 1046 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,680 you can feed straw, whether you can long silk hay, what type of 1047 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,280 hay you can get. Because we're always aiming to 1048 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,800 give them ad Lib. But it's more, it's also really 1049 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,040 important they don't have chronic obesity going on or, or 1050 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,480 or overweight for long periods because that has with it so many 1051 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,960 health risks. So it's always, it's always a 1052 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,800 juggle. It's always a juggle and you've 1053 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,360 really helped that scenario for me because mine are already on 1054 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,200 12 hour plus soaked. Hey, so but they've had they 1055 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,080 have it constantly and they don't have any hard food, but 1056 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,760 they are, we aren't able to build a track because we're not 1057 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,600 allowed, you know, permission's on the land. 1058 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,640 So they're in a smaller mud paddock 'cause they can't have 1059 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,920 grass 'cause it's makes them laminitic. 1060 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,920 So we're in a constant juggle scenario and always juggling 1061 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,640 feed, hay, forage. What do we do, You know, 1062 00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:52,520 monitoring weight. And I also love your top tip 1063 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,440 earlier about weight taping because don't we get used to the 1064 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,560 horse we see in front of us? You know, it's so hard to tell 1065 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,760 isn't your mind plays tricks on you and you don't notice just 1066 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,000 those subtle changes. Claire, thank you so much for 1067 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,800 all the tips and tricks you've given us because you know, our 1068 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,000 beloved vets who we we admire and respect so much can't know 1069 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,600 everything. They are like our GPS and they 1070 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,200 know about a wide range of issues. 1071 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,360 But our nutritionists are there for us if we have any questions 1072 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,680 or concerns. Just tell us what you can offer. 1073 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,320 Claire, if someone's thinking, oh, you know, actually I really 1074 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,440 should consult A nutritionist or I've got a few queries about my 1075 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,280 horse, why would a nutritionist help them? 1076 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,400 Yeah, that's a, it's a good question. 1077 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,400 So I like to say like getting a nutritionist involved will give 1078 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,680 you Peace of Mind that what you're doing for your horse is 1079 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,640 correct. So even if you're don't have any 1080 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,160 problems or issues with your horse, I think it's a good idea 1081 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,360 to check in with a nutritionist because that just gives you 1082 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,320 Peace of Mind. That thing that the, the, the 1083 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,240 the diet is correctly balanced, which is the key important 1084 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:55,240 foundation for nutrition. And also it can help Peace of 1085 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,480 Mind in that you know you're going to get bombarded with 1086 00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,400 adverts for all different products and supplements and 1087 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,920 goodness knows what. And that can be so confusing. 1088 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,240 And it can be marketeers are experts in creating doubt. 1089 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,360 So you might have a perfectly good feeding regime and your 1090 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:09,600 horse might be perfectly healthy. 1091 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,360 But if you're getting drawn into these adverts on Facebook or 1092 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,480 whatever, or your friends saying, oh, you must feed this, 1093 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,400 then that can create a lot of stress and open loops in your 1094 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,120 mind, which creates a lot because of the doubt. 1095 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,320 So even if you haven't got any problems, it's, I think it's 1096 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,040 good to have a check in. Actually, that's why I launched. 1097 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,360 I've got a quick horse feed check service, which is more 1098 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,200 affordable and a much quicker, easier, simple thing to do than 1099 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,040 my full on one to one bespoke nutrition package consultation 1100 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,920 package. Because sometimes you just need 1101 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,480 that quick check and you don't want, you don't want or need 1102 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,680 that full package. But so it can just give you 1103 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,880 Peace of Mind. Or alternatively, if you feel 1104 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,120 like you just don't know where to start, then get in touch with 1105 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,640 the nutritionist and they can set you up with a good diet for 1106 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,240 your horse that might even last you a long time. 1107 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,440 Yeah. Claire, thank you so much 1108 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,560 because you have really done some myth busting for us as well 1109 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,800 about winter feeding and tackled a huge range of of challenges 1110 00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,600 that we all experience as horse owners in these in these colder 1111 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,200 seasons. And it can feel terrifying 1112 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,120 sometimes as a horse owner when we know our beloved animals have 1113 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,680 such complex digestive systems. So thank you so much for sharing 1114 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,000 your expertise for those who want to find you. 1115 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,840 How can they do that? Yeah. 1116 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,280 Well, well, first of all, before I answer your question, thank 1117 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,160 you for some great questions because you've asked some 1118 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,400 questions which are a little bit more kind of complex, but you've 1119 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,920 also asked, I think many questions that horse owners 1120 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,920 would like to ask, but maybe feel like they shouldn't because 1121 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,120 they should already know and there's never any silly 1122 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:36,840 questions. So I'm delighted that you asked 1123 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,480 of what you've asked, what you did in terms of getting hold of 1124 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,040 me. Probably my website, 1125 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,200 echonutritionist.com is the easiest place to start. 1126 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,480 It's going to be restructured for next year actually. 1127 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,000 And signing up to my e-mail list, I do send out regular 1128 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,200 emails, which is more, even more information that you'll find on 1129 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,920 my my Facebook page. So you can do that via my 1130 00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,800 website. And that's a good way of keeping 1131 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,200 in touch with what I'm up to or you're joining my Facebook page. 1132 00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:06,880 It's a, it's a hopefully a nice, happy, fun place to be with lots 1133 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,720 of information and discussion and debate. 1134 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:12,720 But it's always friendly. And like I say, anybody that 1135 00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:14,480 challenges or is too rude gets thrown out. 1136 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,480 So it's a very safe page. I would hope to to pass on, so 1137 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,400 that would be the main thing. Start with my website. 1138 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,480 If you want to know exactly what's available, that's the 1139 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,240 good place to start. And Claire's Facebook page is 1140 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:29,040 one of my favorite places on Facebook to go to for horsey 1141 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,520 advice. And you've, you've helped me no 1142 00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,040 end this winter, Claire, without even knowing through your posts 1143 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,160 and, and juggling some challenges that I've had with my 1144 00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,800 horses. So thank you so so much for 1145 00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,760 coming on curious the question, for sharing your knowledge and 1146 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,480 and your experience with us and for also helping us all on 1147 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,000 Facebook, which can be quite a scary place with all the trolls 1148 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,800 lurking. Oh, you're so welcome. 1149 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:55,440 Well, thank you very much for inviting me. 1150 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,600 I never take it for granted, you know, that horse owners want to 1151 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,400 hear what I have to say. I'm very passionate about my 1152 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,200 subject, but I'm just delighted that you know, I, I get invites 1153 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,600 to to platforms like yours and I, I need to get into some of 1154 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,040 your past episodes because they look fascinating and I love just 1155 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,680 the time. Curious the question. 1156 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,080 What a great name because it always helps us to be curious 1157 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,120 and open to learning. It's going to help us unhelper 1158 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,320 horses as well. So yeah, I'm looking forward to 1159 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:21,920 over Christmas when I have a bit of downtime. 1160 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,200 See you doing a little bit of podcast listening on. 1161 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,560 On your past episodes. Brilliant.