1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,560 Could track systems be the key to giving our horses the best 2 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:07,520 life? A track system, also known as a 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,120 paddock paradise, is a loop shaped paddock layout 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,960 originating in America, designed to mimic the natural nomadic 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,600 lifestyle of horses in the wild. Instead of a traditional square 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,480 field where horses might stand still and graze in one spot for 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,960 hours, a track system uses fencing to create a pathway 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,840 around the perimeter of the field. 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,480 They're usually filled with enrichment activities to keep 10 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:40,480 horses mentally, physically and emotionally healthy. 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,840 Graveney Equine Track System livery in Kent was one of the 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,920 very first track systems to be built in the UK and it won the 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:55,360 Livery Yard of the Year in 2024. The owner, Lauren Johnson, is 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,280 known for providing A holistic, science LED approach to natural 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,560 horse care and has a following of over 22,000 on Facebook. 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,600 So could track systems be the best environment for our 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,800 domesticated horses? Let's find out why Gravenny 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,240 Equine came out on top. Lauren, welcome to Curious 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:20,840 Equestrian. Hello. 20 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,680 Lauren, as one of the first track systems to have ever 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,360 reached the UK, how did that come about and what inspired you 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,840 to? Start with this one of my crazy 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,000 ideas. Yeah, I, I basically, I, I 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,080 bought a new horse, as you do. I'd been out of the horse 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,840 ownership game for a little while and I finally bit the 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,640 bullet and bought myself a horse. 27 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,560 You know, it was totally under my control. 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,560 No, no parents contributing anything like that. 29 00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,560 And I quickly realised that she had a problem with her feet and, 30 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:03,960 you know, I've got the farrier involved. 31 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,320 And he suggested a couple of things. 32 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,880 So she was only two years old at the time and he wanted to put 33 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,600 shoes on her. And I just thought this, this 34 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,880 feels just a bit, you know, a bit much for a 2 year old that's 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,600 going to be essentially just, you know, plodding about in the 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,680 field for the next few years. I looked into it more and more 37 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,440 and I started to get just like really overwhelmed and terrified 38 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,640 to be honest about, you know, the conversations I was having 39 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:33,120 with farriers and they, they, they were talking about doing 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,600 resections and putting resin in, you know, in holes in the hooves 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,680 and stuff. Essentially she had cracks, toe 42 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,600 cracks on all four feet. And I kind of essentially had to 43 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,960 bite the bullet. I booked in a farrier and he was 44 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:53,040 going to charge me something ungodly like £800 to come and do 45 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,320 resections on all four feet, fill it with resin, shoe her 46 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,760 with a, you know, a magical shoeing package. 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,720 And at that point, I was like that that's my only option at 48 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,200 the moment. As you do well, as I do in these 49 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,480 situations, I kind of turn to the Internet and spend hours, 50 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,560 you know, typing horse hoof cracks, hoof cracks on horses. 51 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,880 What shall I do? Like I literally went down this 52 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:24,960 wormhole and I came across, I didn't come across track systems 53 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,600 at that point, but I did come across barefoot trimming. 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,360 And the only person I could find in my area was, was a lady who 55 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,920 was actually just into retiring. So she, as lots of people in the 56 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,160 profession had ended up with a bad back and she was moving out 57 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,960 of the profession. So I thought, you know, I've, 58 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,880 I've kind of missed my chance with that. 59 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,280 But then I actually stumbled across a girl who was just in 60 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,040 the process of training. So she wasn't fully qualified 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,160 and she said, you know, I'm actually looking for case 62 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,080 studies. Perhaps, you know, if you don't 63 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,600 mind funding my petrol, I can come and use your horse as a 64 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,160 case study. And I thought 20 pounds, £800, 65 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,000 let's go, let's go with the 20 LB version. 66 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:19,880 First she came out and it was like, I mean, I literally just 67 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,480 sighed then because that's how I felt. 68 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,920 It was like just a night and it literally was like a hard 69 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,040 moment. She, she, she stood there and 70 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,960 she was like, this isn't actually as big a problem as you 71 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,920 know, you think it is. This is, this is based around 72 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,280 the way she's living and the, the diet that she's getting. 73 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,720 And actually, I think that you could probably do something 74 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,640 about this fairly easily alongside trimming, of course. 75 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,320 And she said, have you ever heard of paddock paradise? 76 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,520 And I said, no, I haven't. You know, what is it? 77 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,080 And so she, you know, she gave me a very brief rundown of what 78 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,800 it was. And then she said, there's a 79 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,080 book. Go and find the book. 80 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,000 So, you know, straight onto Amazon. 81 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,120 And I got the book and I read it and I, I've got, I literally, I 82 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,080 can remember where I was sitting as I was reading it because it 83 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,880 was like things were just like cogs were turning and it just 84 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,000 made sense. I've always been, you know, I've 85 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,520 always been an animal lover and I've always, you know, wanted to 86 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,080 provide a nice environment for my animals. 87 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,320 And I remember specifically my dad, who has always been a 88 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,920 massive, you know, animal advocate himself. 89 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,280 I had pet rabbits growing up, and we had quite a big back 90 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:43,840 garden. And I remember him saying to me, 91 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:46,920 if you're going to have these rabbits, like we need to give 92 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,080 them a good life, not just shut in a hutch or with a little run 93 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,680 space. And what he proceeded to do was 94 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,040 essentially dig up the entire back garden and put tunnels 95 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,760 everywhere, popping up into little runs that were like 96 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,040 little satellite runs all over the place. 97 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:11,360 And there was this just click of that is exactly what my dad was 98 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,640 trying to achieve for my rabbits all these years back was giving 99 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,160 them a, a species appropriate lifestyle. 100 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,200 Like they, they want tunnels. They want little bits of grass 101 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:25,640 And I was like, I, I didn't really, I didn't really 102 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,080 understand how I'd kind of missed joining up the dots 103 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,640 myself. At that point in time. 104 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:37,040 I was lecturing. So I, I worked at one of the, EU 105 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,200 KS leading agricultural college and I was, I was lecturing in, 106 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,240 in animal welfare and behaviour and nutrition myself. 107 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:49,840 And it was literally like everything this just jigsaw, all 108 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:53,000 the pieces fell into place. And I was like, I've got to try 109 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,720 this. I've absolutely got to try this. 110 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,360 And I said to, you know, my now husband, I was like, I had an 111 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,920 idea. And he was like, oh God, what, 112 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,920 what's the idea? And and I was like, it's OK, I 113 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,960 just need a bit of electric fencing essentially. 114 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,840 And he was like, that's fine. I've got an Energizer because, 115 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,240 you know, he's a farmer. So he's got random things like 116 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:18,560 that sitting about. So yeah, we literally got what 117 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:25,760 was probably 2 or £300 worth of battery Energizer, electric tape 118 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,640 and posts. And we literally made a track 119 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,760 around A1 acre field. And I still go back and look at 120 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,280 that picture, You know, that we got off Google Maps all the time 121 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:42,040 because within four months my horse was essentially her 122 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,800 problem was completely solved. That the cracks were growing 123 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,080 out, that, you know, the support from the trimmer and the 124 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,720 trimming from the trimmer alongside her change in the 125 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,520 horses, change in movement and the change in diet. 126 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,720 And I'd gone from looking at a, you need £800 of work done to 127 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,360 your horse every couple of months to someone trimming her 128 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,000 for £20 a month. And it was, yeah, it was like an 129 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,280 epiphany, really. It was. 130 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,200 It's, it sounds a bit dramatic to say that, but it's completely 131 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,440 changed my horse's life. It completely changed my life. 132 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,280 It's incredible. What was it Lauren? 133 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,480 You, you made that link between the rabbits, which is 134 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,520 fascinating as well because I come from a family where my mum 135 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,280 is, has always been such an advocate for rabbits and saying, 136 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,360 you know, it's cruel how we keep them in the UK and across the 137 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,480 world as well, of course, in, in hutches and how, you know, 138 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,840 they're designed to roam just as our horses are. 139 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,240 So from a young age, I too have been, you know, part of a family 140 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,760 that build massive, great big runs for rabbits and, and, and 141 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,880 all the rest of it. When you saw that design of the 142 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,720 track system, what was it that lit up your soul and sort of 143 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,560 thought, I must do this, obviously with your horse in 144 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:01,240 mind, but what was it that really excited you about the 145 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,800 possibility and the future of the track system at a time where 146 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,640 it wasn't known about in the UK? Yeah. 147 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,440 And that was something I really struggled with because I, you 148 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:18,240 know, I had a few friends who had horses, but nobody had heard 149 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:24,000 of track systems at all. And I was, I was kind of faced 150 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:29,880 with having read about a concept that made so much sense to me. 151 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,920 I was also kind of butting my head up against the wall of 152 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:40,760 everybody else that I knew didn't really understand what I 153 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,240 what I was talking about essentially. 154 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,520 And you know, why, why are you trying to feed your horse hay 155 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,800 when there's grass in the field? Just use the whole field. 156 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,360 Why are you putting, why are you doing this? 157 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,560 Why are you doing that? And I, I obviously had the, the 158 00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:00,240 kind of the, the selfish personal desire to just, you 159 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,800 know, get my horse better. Essentially. 160 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,760 I, you know, I wanted my horse to be healthy and, and not to be 161 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,280 kind of looking at a 2 year old who had laminitis or, you know, 162 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,000 was written off essentially. So I kind of had that selfish 163 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,720 desire to kind of give myself a challenge and did, did this 164 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,400 actually work? Is this going to work? 165 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,320 But like I say, the putting together what we know and, and 166 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,360 everybody knows about a certain amount about wild horses or 167 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,200 feral horses, because just through osmosis, you learn that 168 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,160 information, don't you? You see horses wandering around 169 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,360 in groups and you see them picking up the, the forage 170 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,800 that's available and you see that they move a huge amount 171 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:46,000 every day. And I, I generally, I didn't 172 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:52,240 understand how I hadn't questioned that more urgently 173 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,560 throughout my life. But I think there is a, a 174 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,200 mentality within, you know, people keeping horses that you 175 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:06,880 just do the thing that you've always done and what has kind of 176 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,080 worked. And I, and I always ponder 177 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,560 whether my horse, if she hadn't have had hoof issues, would I 178 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:15,360 have done any of this? Would it have clicked or would I 179 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,520 have just kept going? Well, you know, it's, it's 180 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,360 working for her being in a stable and being turned out. 181 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,800 Why would I have any reason to to change that, I guess and go 182 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:31,200 against the grain. But yeah, when, when I first 183 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,560 started looking into it, there was no, I couldn't find anyone 184 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:40,920 on social media doing it. You know, I, I looked on Google 185 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,600 and the only place that I could find that, you know, was doing 186 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,840 anything along the lines that I was trying to do was obviously, 187 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,720 you know, Jamie Jackson over in America, but was Rockley Farm 188 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,360 that is a, is a horse rehab centre in the UK. 189 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,400 So I kind of, you know, I, I made it my mission to stalk 190 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,640 their page essentially, and, you know, keep an eye on what they 191 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,840 were doing. And I did actually manage to 192 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:15,120 link up with another horse owner in the UK very close to me in 193 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,360 Kent, who was setting up a track as well, a small track with the 194 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,320 idea of potentially taking on a few liveries themselves. 195 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,120 And I had the opportunity to to go over to to their yard and 196 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,280 have a look round. And it was just really nice to 197 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,800 make like a find an actual physical person that was doing 198 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,320 the same thing. And it's actually Lisa who I run 199 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,600 the horse track system Facebook group with now, you know, so 200 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,400 that's been going for I think maybe 8 years and we're. 201 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,480 Who I know very well, which is Lisa Williamson Nutley. 202 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,520 Yes, yes, absolutely. Yes, yes, yeah. 203 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:58,200 And just so you. Make that connection. 204 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,640 I was when was just tell us the year, Lauren that that you were 205 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,600 setting your first track system up. 206 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,640 What year was that? What year are we talking, 207 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,320 crikey? So the very first track system 208 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,560 that I had my horse on just my own, excuse me, personal horse 209 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,480 was 14 years ago. She's 17 now. 210 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,480 So four, well, 15 years ago actually. 211 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:32,280 And then we set up the track here when we moved in 2012. 212 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,400 Yeah, wow, wow, yeah, 1314. And isn't it amazing how it took 213 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,360 a while to trickle feed, didn't it, to the equestrian world? 214 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,920 Because I remember going to do a piece for the BBC with Lisa and 215 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,560 that was about 8 years ago. And I'd never seen a track 216 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,760 system before in all my equestrian years. 217 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,000 And about 10 years, about 8 years ago, I went out to see 218 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,520 Lisa, who had a retirement livery in Kent and was astounded 219 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,360 at how beautiful it was, how it worked with nature, how the 220 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,240 horses lived in such peace and, and harmony. 221 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:13,880 Obviously out 24/7 barefoot, you know, the, the serenity on the 222 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,560 track, you know, I think a lot of people might think, wow, you 223 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:20,480 know, a whole livery on an essentially A narrow track 224 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,600 around a field. But the the absolute serenity in 225 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,520 those moments that it is common peaceful, It's not everyone 226 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,080 charging about and you know, everyone trying to release the 227 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,800 horses, turn out the horses from their stables every morning and 228 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,320 getting sort of caught in the gateway. 229 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,600 There is that real harmony, natural harmony. 230 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,440 And I was blown away. And I can't believe it took that 231 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,120 long for the message to get out there. 232 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,560 Lauren, do you feel the same, that from that moment you you 233 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,880 created your private track for your horse to the moment of 234 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,280 creating your livery, Did it feel strange that it was sort of 235 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,000 only gradually trickling in the equestrian world? 236 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,560 Yeah, it, it felt like we were essentially walking through mud 237 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,960 for, for quite a few years with, with getting the word out. 238 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,520 And I remember, you know, going back to the, the track system 239 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,600 group that was set up on Facebook for the first good few 240 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,440 years, you know, we, we got a few thousand people joining and, 241 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,600 you know, there were some really good conversations going on in 242 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,800 there. But yeah, literally we, we kind 243 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:28,040 of only had a few 1000 people. And then suddenly probably maybe 244 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:33,320 3 or 4 years ago, there was a massive explosion in the growth 245 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,240 of the group. I mean, I know personally and 246 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,560 there there's a few other livery yard owners as well that have 247 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,720 essentially I just, I was like a dog with a bone. 248 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,200 I made it by my mission to try and tell everyone about it. 249 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,640 And I think at first I started doing that in a way that people 250 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,280 perhaps didn't want to listen. I think I was so passionate 251 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,480 about passionate about it that I was kind of like, no, listen, 252 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,560 listen to me, Jack sessions are amazing. 253 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,760 Let me repeat that into you and I, I remember thinking, so 254 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,880 obviously, like I say, I was lecturing at the time and I 255 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,040 thought I've, I've never actually managed to get a piece 256 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,600 of information into a student by shouting it at them. 257 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,480 Essentially, I was like, I need to change the way that I'm 258 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,480 talking about this and the way that I'm giving this information 259 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,760 to people because like, if you're shouting in someone's 260 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,800 face, they're obviously not going to want to listen to what 261 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,720 you're saying. So I mean, I, I've made a 262 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,240 mission to put as much information as I could as 263 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,720 possible out on my own Facebook page. 264 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,840 So just talking about more generic stuff as well, but also 265 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,240 talking about our specific setup and how we do certain things and 266 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,040 how we overcome certain challenges. 267 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,400 But also, you know, we've put a huge amount of time into the 268 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,920 horse track system group and getting conversations going on 269 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,400 there. And I really love going in there 270 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,640 now because initially it was people kind of asking us as 271 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,280 admins the questions, but actually now someone will ask a 272 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,319 question and there's, you know, 20 other people jumping in with 273 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:08,839 all this is what I've done with my track. 274 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,400 I've found that this has worked really well. 275 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,280 And that is just, you know, like a chef's kiss. 276 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,119 I love it. But also, you know, I've written 277 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,280 for lots of different publications, different 278 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,520 magazines. I've got my own blog post 279 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,480 website as well. And just with the, you know, the 280 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,839 the idea of just pumping out as much information to people as 281 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:32,200 possible and hopefully in a way that people can understand and 282 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,400 process, but also in a way that is not, there's no point in 283 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,080 accusing people of, you know, you're not looking after your 284 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,000 horse properly. If you're doing XY and Z, you 285 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,680 should definitely be doing this instead. 286 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:50,320 It's just by showing people the benefits that that we found, you 287 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,040 know, that there's such benefits. 288 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,080 Obviously my first horse, the benefits to her, to her feet and 289 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,440 getting over what was essentially low grade laminitis. 290 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,480 Obviously for me and her that was life changing. 291 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,120 But then I took on a rescue horse who had a lot of 292 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:15,480 behavioural not issues, but she'd been abused and not looked 293 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,200 after properly. So for her, being with people 294 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,720 was like not a number one priority. 295 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,200 She was very wary of me, she was very protective of herself. 296 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,280 But being able to go out with my other horse and form a bond with 297 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:35,960 her and yet I try and spend time with them as if I'm part of the 298 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,200 herd. I mean, obviously I'm not a 299 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,840 horse and they know that I'm not a horse. 300 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:46,000 But if I spend time with them in mindfully in a way that I am 301 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:51,120 like appreciating their, their mannerisms and their demeanour 302 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,960 and their behaviour. Although they know I'm not a 303 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,280 horse, they can hopefully feel that I'm respecting their 304 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,480 hoarseness and I'm, you know, I'm not offending them and I'm 305 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,160 trying to be part of their, their group. 306 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:10,360 So it's just it, it's really nice to to see the community 307 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,200 growing and growing and growing. And now when you talk about 308 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,880 track systems, people aren't saying, oh, what's that? 309 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,320 I've not heard of that. They're saying, Oh yeah, my 310 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,440 friend's got a track system set up in her, you know, garden or 311 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,000 my friend's got a, her horse at a track system livery. 312 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,960 That that change in the last few years especially, has been 313 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,280 stark, really. So many questions to ask you, 314 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,280 Lauren, but actually let me quickly ask you, why do you 315 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,840 think there's been a surge considering they have been 316 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,440 around for the last sort of like you mentioned, 10/12/14 years in 317 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,640 the UK thanks to you and Lisa. Why do you think the big burst 318 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,880 of interest has come in the last sort of three or four years? 319 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,440 What answers do you think the track system is giving to 320 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:06,880 equestrians problems? So I think that's one one of 321 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,840 the, the reasons and I I need to kind of try and process my way 322 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,400 through this. So I don't really miss anything 323 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,200 out. But one of the reasons is 324 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,840 talking about, you know, livery yards perhaps needing to take on 325 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,040 a few more horses to be able to finance what they're doing. 326 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Essentially, track systems are a way of keeping more horses on a 327 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,560 smaller amount of land because obviously you don't have to look 328 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,360 at in, you know, 1 1/2 acres per horse kind of calculations, the 329 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,880 BHS type calculations and suggestions. 330 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,160 You can, you can keep horses on a smaller space as long as 331 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,600 they're still being provided with, you know, enough forage, 332 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,920 enough places to, to rest or to move away from other horses, a 333 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,480 wide enough track that they're not feeling trapped or stressed. 334 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,760 So the parameters are quite different essentially for that. 335 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,360 Another consideration is talking about the the weather extremes 336 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,920 and what's going on with the climate is that we're finding 337 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,680 we're we're facing really wet winter months in some points and 338 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,600 and people are having to completely restrict or say no 339 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:27,280 completely to turn out. And providing a surface track 340 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,480 system is, is an instant way of, of the horses going to stay out 341 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,120 all year. Now we've we've taken that 342 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:39,800 stress off completely. I do also think that we are 343 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:49,360 looking at a population of horses that you know, have have 344 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:53,480 grown up on what is essentially cattle grass. 345 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,480 So not ideal for horses. It's, it's, you know, it's very 346 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,800 rich and also we we've really had a massive rise in the 347 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:08,040 fashion for bagged feeds that give horses so much kind of 348 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,840 excess nutrition that they don't actually need. 349 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,360 So people are finding that they are facing the challenges of 350 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:22,840 metabolic disorders and, you know, metabolic illnesses and 351 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,360 they're having to try and find a solution to it. 352 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,800 And I think just because we talk about tract systems more as a 353 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,360 solution, you know, or help at least to certain problems that 354 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,120 people are realising that that's actually a really valid choice 355 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,640 to make to, you know, whereas in the past, if your horse had 356 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,240 laminitis, it it's a case of boxrest, you know, doing XY and 357 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,040 Z, keeping it in, don't letting it out, don't let it out on the 358 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,960 grass for these hours of the day. 359 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,600 People are now realising that the track system is a really 360 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,600 valid option. And I think that the floodgates 361 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,160 are essentially opening to all of those horses and owners that 362 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,320 are suddenly like, oh, hang on a minute, I can, I can do 363 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,640 something different here. And yeah, I think it's, you 364 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,920 know, a combination of all those different factors, to be honest. 365 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,080 And as you mentioned, an awakening of actually, I can 366 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,120 keep my horse differently. Like you mentioned, you've seen 367 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:23,480 the light. Wow, Why have I not questioned 368 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,000 this before that horses are, you know, essentially are wild 369 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,240 animals that we've domesticated. They need to be kept more 370 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,200 naturally. I think there has been a great 371 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,160 awakening, hasn't there over the last few years where people are 372 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,400 really seeing that benefit of, of looking at the wild horse, 373 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,640 looking at the the pet horse for want of a better word and saying 374 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,520 actually we need to try and give you a better life. 375 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,760 Yeah, exactly because it, you know, if we look at the DNA of 376 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,360 the horse, it's not it's it remains largely unchanged from, 377 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,240 you know, horses of thousands and years ago. 378 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,960 We haven't we've we've domesticated, but we haven't 379 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,040 changed their their DNA. We haven't changed the 380 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,040 fundamental things about a horse that a horse needs. 381 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,880 So we haven't changed their need for movement. 382 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,440 You know, they they say that they're saying of motion is 383 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,920 lotion because the horses need to move for their bodies to be 384 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:23,440 healthy, but obviously shut in a stable, they they start to 385 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:29,400 stagnate essentially. But also looking at the, the 386 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,320 kind of forage that they would eat in a wild situation or a 387 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,760 feral, we technically shouldn't say wild horses because there 388 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,280 aren't really any true wild horses anymore. 389 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,480 But feral horses, you're looking at the, the kind of forage and 390 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,080 the kind of food that they eat it. 391 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,920 It's when you compare it to fields and especially fields of, 392 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,960 you know, what used to be dairy cattle grazing, you're looking 393 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:59,400 at just super lush, like turbo charged grass and comparing it 394 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,440 to what a horse would eat in the wild. 395 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:07,280 It's just it's so, so different. And offering hay is, you know, 396 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,960 it's not exactly the same. We can't physically copy exactly 397 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,080 what they would have in the wild, but it's so much closer to 398 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,600 what they would naturally eat. And you just see the benefits. 399 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:26,640 There are so many benefits to feeding hay as a forage, but I 400 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:32,240 don't think until you do it and you see those changes, I don't 401 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,320 think you can appreciate how much change into a forage diet 402 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,160 can impact your horse. I really don't. 403 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,640 Can you try and put it into words for us, Lauren? 404 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,240 The changes if you can. I know it's really hard. 405 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,480 I can, I can. Differences in a horse that's on 406 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,680 hay. Just hay. 407 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,680 So, so I'm a barefoot trimmer as well. 408 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,960 So I see a lot of horses other than my own horses. 409 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:01,800 And I mean, the first real difference is gut health and 410 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,760 everything kind of spans off from gut health essentially. 411 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:14,120 But to give a forage that so you know, hay as a forage that is, I 412 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,440 hate using the word stable because there's just so many 413 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,920 puns involved in stables and horses, but it's a stable, it's 414 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,760 a stable forage. So it doesn't change on a daily 415 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,840 basis. So when you're looking at grass 416 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,560 growing, if, if it's a bit hot one day or it's a bit rainy one 417 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,440 day or it's a bit windy one day, there's so many different things 418 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,680 that can impact how the grass grows and the health of the 419 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,840 grass. Once you've cut hay and baled 420 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,120 it, it's like it's, it stays fairly unchanged. 421 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,440 Obviously, the, the vitamins in it will degrade slowly over the 422 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:53,160 course of, you know, 12 to 18 months, but largely it remains a 423 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,360 completely stable food source. Like, you know, how much sugar 424 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:01,240 is in it, how much starch is in it, how much protein is in it, 425 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,640 how much crude fibre is in it. You can then tailor the rest of 426 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,120 your horse's diet to, to match that hay. 427 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,360 Whereas if you're putting your horse, you know, into a field 428 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,200 everyday, people are doing the, the micromanagement dance 429 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,880 basically. Should I, you know, just take 430 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,000 them out for a couple of hours? Do I need to put a grazing 431 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,800 muzzle on all the different things that they have to 432 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,320 consider? And it becomes quite stressful. 433 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,280 And I know for a fact that people that have brought their 434 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,960 horses to us feel like there's suddenly a huge void in their 435 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,880 life because they've gone from that having to visit their horse 436 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,160 10 times a day and, you know, soaking hay and putting the 437 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,920 grass muzzle on and then taking it off and then bringing them in 438 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,000 and having to muck out extra. They've gone from this really 439 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,680 heavy workload of trying to manage their horse and keep it 440 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,200 healthy to it's just, it's just out. 441 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,800 It's just out there now. And it's kind of living its life 442 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,400 and not needing a huge amount of, you know, input. 443 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:12,800 Essentially our track is set up so that essentially they look 444 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,520 after themselves and obviously we look after them and we 445 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,920 monitor them. But our input is it is very 446 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,800 different, drastically different and much, much lower stress of 447 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,040 that compared to, you know, micromanaging another, you know, 448 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,040 a horse in and out of this situation constantly. 449 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:38,040 So you see the changes in a horse's gut because that stable 450 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:44,040 food source just encourages a really healthy microbiome. 451 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,000 It's not a constantly changing microbiome that's trying to 452 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,000 catch up with a, you know, a flushing grass or a sudden 453 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,040 increase in a certain plant growing. 454 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,640 You know, some sometimes of year you have a massive flush of 455 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,160 Clover, for example, which can really impact the gut. 456 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,160 So the gut is much more stable. But because of that, you see a 457 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,920 massive change in things like hoof health. 458 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:12,680 So again, I can look at a horse and, and tell what kind of diet 459 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,200 it's on just by looking at the foot and, and, you know, looking 460 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,720 at the hoof and the health of the hoof. 461 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:24,000 And it's really easy to see which horses are on a, a really 462 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,560 nice stable diet. You know, that that doesn't 463 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720 change much. And the horses that are turned 464 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,360 out onto, you know, changing grass or they're having to swap 465 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,800 fields every couple of weeks because the livery yard doesn't 466 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,800 want the field to get poached. So you see it absolutely see it 467 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,120 in the hoof health. And although we are, you know, 468 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:54,360 officially a rehab centre for hoof issues, again, it's the 469 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,680 track and the horses that do the work. 470 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,000 We're we're providing them with the things they need. 471 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,120 But I don't really need to micromanage the hoof health 472 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,040 either. And another thing that people 473 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:15,520 don't really think of so much is behaviour and how horses act and 474 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,320 react when their gut is in a much more sort of harmonious 475 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,920 balance. And I, I, I will absolutely 476 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,320 shout from the rooftops that obviously there's, there's 477 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,040 behavioural benefits of movement and being on track for a horse's 478 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,000 behaviour anyway. But a healthy gut makes a horse 479 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,680 so much more trainable. It makes it, it just a much 480 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,760 easier partner because everything behaviour wise comes 481 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,560 from a basis in the gut. And I'm not just talking obvious 482 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,920 things like ulcers, which obviously are going to cause a 483 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,200 horse to be upset and in pain and, and misbehave. 484 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:05,120 But just having that that balance within the gut creates a 485 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,080 level headed, a more level headed and a more trainable 486 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,760 horse. It's absolutely fascinating, 487 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,160 Lauren, and I've got to ask you because one of the things that, 488 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,840 uh, struck me and I'm sure has for everyone who's visited a 489 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,160 track system. And if you haven't, it's 490 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,600 incredibly creative because you'll go to a track and you'll 491 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,720 see sort of mounds of earth where the horse can sort of go 492 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,040 up onto different levels of terrain or areas of sand, areas 493 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,560 of pebbles, areas, all of different aspects that the horse 494 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,200 can explore. And always I'm struck by the 495 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,400 imagination and creativity of, of the owner of the track and 496 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,560 the effort that they put in to create this almost wild and 497 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,120 natural environment for the horses to be on. 498 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,480 So Lauren, can you talk us through your setup and the 499 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,840 different areas you've created and and how you keep the horses 500 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,720 stimulated on the track? Definitely. 501 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,240 So our track in total is a mile long. 502 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,400 So we've got we've got a main loop that goes around the 503 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,920 outside and that was our initial loop that we set up when we 504 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,840 first started the track. And over the years we've added 505 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,280 different sections to it. So we've got the main loop and 506 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,280 then we've got other various little loops off and bits around 507 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,840 the back of the barn now. So yeah, they've got a mile sort 508 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:26,640 of start to finish of track now, which in itself just offers a 509 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,360 lot of opportunity for them to to pick what direction they're 510 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,800 going to go in and what they're going to go off and explore. 511 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:39,120 And you do find once you get to know the horses, you, you know, 512 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,360 kind of who to expect where and who they're going to be there 513 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,480 with. So, you know, they're obviously 514 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,120 getting to choose what they do, but also which horses they do it 515 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,560 with as well. They don't move as one big herb 516 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,560 for the entire day. They, they, you know, they pick 517 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,920 and choose who they're going to do certain activities with and 518 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,880 off they go. So we've got our main track and 519 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:04,880 it's fully surfaced and then we have our main barn, which is off 520 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,280 the top of my head, it's 45 by 90 foot. 521 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,680 So it's a, it's a decent sized barn and it's open to the horses 522 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,920 at all times. We have rubber matting in there 523 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,240 and hemp bedding, so we use Orbios bedding so they have an 524 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,000 area in there where they can go and lie down inside if they 525 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,560 choose to. We then just outside of the 526 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,720 barn, so we have our water supply outside the barn, but we 527 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,960 also have a pond area just outside which we tend to kind of 528 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,280 let that fill and unfill as the year goes on. 529 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,120 We're on clay, so most of the time there's some water in 530 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,680 there, but obviously in the winter it's much higher. 531 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,880 And again, it provides some interest for the horses because 532 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,560 sometimes they go there and it's it's low and it's a bit muddy 533 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,840 and they can have a roll in there and cover themselves in 534 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,000 mud. And other times that, you know, 535 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,160 they're wading in and they're up to their bellies in water. 536 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,640 So again, that provides something different for them. 537 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:10,440 We have sort of three other main resting areas for them. 538 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:16,400 So we have a a woodchip pen and, and a lot of track people will 539 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,159 say absolutely like don't go in a woodchip it it can be a bit, 540 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,920 can be a bit temperamental. We made sure we built our 541 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,719 woodchip area on a raised area so it is free draining and it, 542 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,120 you know, it just lasted a lot better. 543 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,159 It fares a lot better if it's on a surface and also free draining 544 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,920 and they really love that because that area catches the 545 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,239 morning sort of mid morning sunshine. 546 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,800 It's a bit of a sun trap so they're often in there mid 547 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,719 morning having a bit of a snooze. 548 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,080 Further around the track, we've got another shelter and that's 549 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,920 where we also have our sand pit area and we've got a gravel pit. 550 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,440 So the sand pit is about 25 meters by 8 meters. 551 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,400 So again, a really big area, enough for several horses to be 552 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,920 in there at once. And the gravel pit, which is 553 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:15,040 just behind our shelter has again, it's probably about 16 by 554 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,000 10 meters, slightly different shape. 555 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,280 And I was surprised about the use of the gravel pit. 556 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,880 So I, I put it in mainly as an experiment really. 557 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,680 I, I hadn't seen any of the tracks with a gravel pit of any 558 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:36,520 description, But I do know that laminitic horses or horses with 559 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,000 any kind of hoof pain. So, you know, it would apply to 560 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,880 sort of any kind of navicular pain as well. 561 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,960 Really, really like standing in gravel because they can, they 562 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,600 can kind of find their own comfortable balance. 563 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,040 So essentially I just wanted to like, let's shove it in and see 564 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,120 what, you know, the rehab horses do with it because it might 565 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,640 actually be somewhere that they can go and stand and just get 566 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:08,600 some real nice deep relief. And it did work for that. 567 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,200 And I did find horses standing at it. 568 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:17,320 But also the because it's stone, it obviously heats up in the 569 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,680 sun. I would find them asleep in 570 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,080 specifically in the stones during the winter. 571 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,680 So you know, when we have those really sunny days in the winter 572 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,720 that aren't particularly warm, but they are sunny. 573 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,400 They were actually, it was like an electric blanket essentially, 574 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:34,840 for want of a better description. 575 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,720 And they were like, they were loving it at night time because 576 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:40,480 it was still really nice and warm within the stones. 577 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,400 So that was something that I didn't, I didn't really even 578 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,960 think about when I first put it in. 579 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,240 It was just a like, it was just a really cool and interesting 580 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,400 kind of side quest that it went on. 581 00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,440 But again, it made me really appreciate how especially 582 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,840 because I didn't, I didn't really consider that aspect of 583 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,360 it. It really made me appreciate how 584 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,480 the horses had had their own choices about going 585 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:18,560 investigating that area and they'd actually found a use for 586 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,280 it that I hadn't considered at all. 587 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,000 And so by providing them with that area, but you know, 588 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,440 hopefully I've, I've increased the, the their welfare, you 589 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,560 know, because they've made the choice to use it and benefit 590 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,800 from it in a certain way. We have, like I say, a big sand 591 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:49,640 pit and they do use the sand pit, but not as much as I would 592 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,480 expect. They will actually revert to the 593 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,600 stone and the gravel more than I would have thought. 594 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,240 So you know, the balance is probably about 5050 when you 595 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,280 look at it overall. But where I imagine they would 596 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,080 be in the sand pit all the time, actually they they make the 597 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,120 choice to hop over into the gravel instead. 598 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,280 And it also really encourages play because of the noise it 599 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,680 makes. So if they, they get in there 600 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,160 and they have a role and quite often once they, you know, they 601 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,120 get up and the, you know, the stones move under their feet a 602 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,960 bit and make that kind of noise that gravel does, they will just 603 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,960 literally jump for joy. They will leap around in it and 604 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,240 then they'll just like shoot off down the track at full speed 605 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,320 because they're, they're like little excited puppies 606 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,680 essentially. So, yeah, we've, we've got those 607 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,480 resting areas. We've we've got a mound. 608 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,600 So you talked about people creating, you know, piles of 609 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,840 earth. That was one of the first things 610 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,080 we put in because it was a bit like, oh, we've got all this 611 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,160 soil that we've dug out. From the track. 612 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,560 What should we do with it? Let's plug it over there. 613 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,480 So we, it was kind of an accidental feature to begin 614 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,720 with. But again, the horses really 615 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:06,400 love standing on it and looking out. 616 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:11,680 So we, we have horses, other horse owners, you know, within a 617 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,160 couple of fields distance from us. 618 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,600 And quite often the horses will stand on the mound and, you 619 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,520 know, just look over at the other horses they can see. 620 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,480 Which, you know, that that really speaks to me of, of, of a 621 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,960 wild horse essentially in its group, in its herd, looking out 622 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,680 and surveying and looking at, you know, the other, the other 623 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,240 groups of horses, the other bands of horses in the area. 624 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,080 That that's really speaks to me of that. 625 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,480 And again, they love just running up and down it like, you 626 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,000 know, turbo charging themselves running up and down the sides of 627 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,240 that. We have a lot of hedgerow. 628 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,160 So we've planted metres and metres and metres of hedgerow 629 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,600 and new trees as well. So they spend a lot of time 630 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,960 foraging their way around as well. 631 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,320 I mean, at the moment there's loads of rose hips and hawthorn 632 00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,960 berries that they're really enjoying. 633 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,440 So they they're kind of getting to self medicate. 634 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,720 As well as they go round, which is it's just fabulous. 635 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,280 It's really lovely. Oh, and it's, it must be part of 636 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,240 the fun and the fascination to watch all of this, you know, 637 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,760 once you've spent so many and we'll talk about this as well, 638 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,880 somebody else building and crafting this track. 639 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,200 But then to watch your hard work pay off and to see who picks who 640 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,200 as friends and and herb mates, who dwells where and where they 641 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,440 play, it must be just. I bet you could just spend hours 642 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,560 of the day watching them. Yeah, I do. 643 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,160 Which, yeah, I quite often get a phone call. 644 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,000 I'm just, I'm just popping out to the barn to do, you know, XY 645 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,000 and Z and I'll get a phone call off my husband. 646 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,040 Are you coming back for dinner or? 647 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,760 Oh, yeah, it's it's it's really beautiful. 648 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:56,000 And it might sound a bit sappy to say, but getting to watch an 649 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:05,920 animal have autonomy is just, it's a feeling I really struggle 650 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,880 to describe. Because when, when you keep a 651 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,000 horse in a way that takes away the vast majority of their 652 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:22,960 choices, they become so dependent on you for everything. 653 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,720 Essentially, you know, are they coming to feed me? 654 00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:27,440 Are they coming to, to put me out? 655 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,400 You know, do I need to kick my door to get some kind of 656 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,080 attention? You know, my haze run out. 657 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:37,000 I'm bored. To be able to put horses in an 658 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:44,320 environment where they, they can fill their own day with the 659 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:50,440 things that they choose to it's, it's just, it's so incredible 660 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,680 and it's, I will stand out there and watch them for hours. 661 00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:58,560 And I'm really lucky that actually my upstairs hall window 662 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,880 looks over the track as well. So, you know, I'll walk up the 663 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,840 hallway and have a little, have a little nose as well whenever 664 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,560 I'm up there. But it's lovely. 665 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:17,920 And I think a lot of people will, and this goes back to, you 666 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,960 know, educating about tracks and talking about tracks and, and 667 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:27,520 not trying to, you know, ram it down people's throats, but to to 668 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:33,480 be able to give them a choice and allow them to fill their day 669 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,480 with the things that are important to them. 670 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,760 It, it just makes everything else so much easier. 671 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,320 And quite often we'll have a back and forth with people on, 672 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:50,200 on the Facebook groups or the pages about some people see a 673 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,680 trackers where you're just shoving your horse out and 674 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,800 abandoning it. And obviously it couldn't be 675 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,880 further from the truth. It's really not about that at 676 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,840 all. And some people say, you know, 677 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,800 my horse is absolutely obsessed with it's stable. 678 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,400 It wants to be and it's stable, it's happy and it's stable. 679 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,200 And so that I say, fine, if your horse genuinely feels safe and 680 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,920 secure and it's stable, open the door. 681 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,200 And if they feel happier in the stable, they've got the choice 682 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,320 to stay there. Like nobody's telling you you've 683 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,960 got to kick them out of the stable. 684 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,360 If that's genuinely where they're happy, they've got the 685 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,000 choice to stay there, but also they've got the choice to not 686 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,200 stay there. And that's kind of the litmus 687 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,160 test for me is if they love their stable, fantastic. 688 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,400 I don't ever want you to shut it out and lock the door and not 689 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,840 let them in. What I want you to do is give 690 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,360 them the choice of whether they want to be in or not, because 691 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,800 they might enjoy it for an hour, but actually after that they 692 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,280 might be like, yeah, I'm done with that. 693 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,480 I want to move off now. Or they might want to sleep in 694 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,520 it all night. It, you know, it's about giving 695 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,720 them the autonomy of making that choice. 696 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,000 And that's so interesting you mention that because it's the 697 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,920 test to see if the horse actually does want to stay in 698 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,920 the stable over over wandering out. 699 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,800 It's also a test for the owner because there is an element of 700 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,120 control, isn't there? And having a bubble around your 701 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,760 horse, if you have always kept it in a stable, it has its 702 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,200 routine. Your horse goes in, you shut the 703 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,080 door behind it. You know, that horse is within 704 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,640 those four walls and is controlled in inverted commas. 705 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,080 And actually, you have to kind of lose that feeling of, of 706 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:30,440 control. Don't you have to kind of let 707 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,440 that go when you are turning your horse out, you know, 365 708 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,160 days a year, 24/7, or put them on a track. 709 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,520 And I remember conversations years ago of people saying, oh, 710 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,920 but if I turn them out in a massive herd on a track, they're 711 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,480 just going to be wild. And how am I going to go into 712 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,680 that track and get my horse and take out to be ridden if it's 713 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,040 part of a large track? What would you say to that 714 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,480 Lauren, for those who think actually where does the element 715 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,200 of control come from? How do I manage my individual 716 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,200 horse? How can I ride that horse if 717 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,120 it's part of a wider community essentially? 718 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,960 Yeah. And I think so. 719 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,280 I think this is a kind of a multi faceted answer really. 720 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:17,640 So I think first of all, so if we're talking about say a horse 721 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,040 going to attract livery yard, the person running that yard and 722 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:27,880 managing that yard has a, you know, a real responsibility for 723 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,760 making sure that the horses are introduced properly and that 724 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,920 they are constantly monitoring the system because every 725 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,520 different horse brings a different dynamic to a herd. 726 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,240 So you can't just say this is my setup, this is the routine, this 727 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:45,800 is what we're doing for the next 20 years. 728 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,480 Every horse will bring a slightly different dynamic to 729 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,520 the overall herd and someone running a track livery needs to 730 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:59,040 be flexible enough to to look at what they're doing and say, 731 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,280 actually for the herd in front of me, we do need to tweak a few 732 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,520 things and not just assuming that once you've got a track set 733 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,160 up that you know, you can just kick back and just watch and 734 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,480 everything's hunky Dory. So the track owner has a real 735 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,480 responsibility of being able to introduce horses sensibly, to be 736 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,440 able to monitor what's going on and actually identify where 737 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:27,680 there are problems and then have you know, something about them 738 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,800 to, to make the changes that are needed to rectify whatever the 739 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,640 problem is that they can see. And you know, to, to be able to 740 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,840 do that, I think, I think every livery yard owner needs to have 741 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,080 a real good working knowledge of horse behaviour and the way 742 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,080 horses interact. Because if you're missing those 743 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,680 nuances of behaviour between the horses, you're you're 744 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,560 potentially missing really important clues for keeping the 745 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,600 horses happy within that environment. 746 00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,840 So that that's a massive thing. From the owner's perspective, I 747 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:07,960 can completely understand that there's a real fear with losing 748 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,640 control of your horses day-to-day management. 749 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,720 And I, I, I genuinely think some people will just never be able 750 00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,720 to give up that control. You know, it's just not, not 751 00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:21,800 within them to be able to, to hand that over. 752 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,560 But I, again, I think that that also is a massive part to do 753 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,520 with feeling that they can trust the yard owner to be doing the 754 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,840 right things with their horses. Because if you're not sure about 755 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,040 their intentions or whether they've got the knowledge to 756 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,600 back up keeping horses in that way, then you're not going to be 757 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,680 confident to, to let them take charge and let them take over. 758 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:49,720 I've had people come to me, you know, enquiring about livery and 759 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,920 you know, they've looked around, they've really loved it and 760 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,560 they've gone. It's just, it's just not for me. 761 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,400 You know, I can see the benefits and you know, it's, it looks 762 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,160 really lovely and the horses all look nice and relaxed, but I 763 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,840 just don't think it's right for me. 764 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,000 And I will, you know, I will say that's fine. 765 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,840 I'm not here to convince you what to do with your horse. 766 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,800 I'm just here showing you what, what this has to offer. 767 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,240 And if it resonates with you, brilliant. 768 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,480 And I will say the majority of those people come back to me 769 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,640 within a couple of years ago. You know, actually, I've, I've 770 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,000 rejigged my priorities and I do think that this, this would 771 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,760 actually work for us because, you know, whereas I'm worrying 772 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,720 about XY and ZI should have been worried about AB and C and, and 773 00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,560 AB and C is what you can provide and what I can't provide. 774 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:48,000 So people have to be prepared to challenge their own, you know, 775 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,080 their current beliefs and their current wants and needs. 776 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,360 And how well do those match up with the horse that, you know, 777 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,400 that they own And, you know, can their horse cope on the routine 778 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,600 that it's been on for 10 years previously? 779 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,880 Or actually, would it really benefit from something 780 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,320 different? And it is something that can be 781 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,720 a bit of a slow burner for some people, to be honest, for a lot 782 00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:13,040 of people, actually, I think it's a slow burner and they they 783 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,760 will come back to it and even making that leap. 784 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,160 And I hope some of my livery owners won't mind me saying this 785 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,960 because I think, you know, I've got a really good relationship 786 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,120 with them all. A lot of them really struggled 787 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,640 in the first few weeks to make the transition personally. 788 00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,600 So not, not their horse, you know, the horses tend tend to 789 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,680 just be like, OK, this is the new thing. 790 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:43,800 We'll, we'll get on with this. But I've had owners that just 791 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,960 can't cope with or really struggle to cope with and 792 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,840 process that complete change in everything. 793 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:58,920 And one of the main things is that their horse stops needing 794 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,120 them. And coming from an environment 795 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,680 where, you know, say you walk into the stable yard and your 796 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,400 horse is, oh, straight head over the door, whinnying, knickering, 797 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,280 because they're like, oh, mum's here. 798 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,280 Dinner time. Hey, net time, let's go to 799 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,920 turning up to the track system. And they don't need that person 800 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,760 anymore because they've got everything that they need. 801 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,160 And I really have to stress to people that this is the time to 802 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,960 start actually enjoying your horse and building a real bond 803 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:38,560 instead of like a a dependency, which is is what it always is up 804 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,400 to that point. You know, it's, it's almost like 805 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,280 an abusive relationship, for want of a better description, 806 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,720 where you know, someone's trapped, they can't leave that 807 00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,960 situation because you know, the horse is completely dependent on 808 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,680 the owner for, for everything that they they need. 809 00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:00,560 And you know, they all get over it essentially eventually. 810 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:07,200 But it's really difficult for people to go from being what 811 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,120 they think is the centre of their horses world to realising 812 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,280 that they were just dependent on them. 813 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,160 And now comes a completely different relationship. 814 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:24,520 But it's it's it's lovely to see that develop when when it's 815 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,280 given the chance to. And so the other thing is just. 816 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,280 Explain. Oh, sorry. 817 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:30,560 Actually, Lauren, carry on. I don't want to. 818 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,280 I don't want to interrupt that trajectory. 819 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:32,800 Yeah. Go on. 820 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,600 Tell us what the other thing was. 821 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,880 So the, the other thing that you, you mentioned with how do I 822 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,120 catch my horse on a track, you know, if they're running wild 823 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,440 with the herd? And, and that kind of piggybacks 824 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,280 off the point I was just talking about, because people start to 825 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,720 build a really meaningful bond with their horse. 826 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,880 So the horse doesn't see them as a, oh God, I've got to come in 827 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,120 and have this done or they're going to shut me in a stable and 828 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,320 leave me overnight. Now, you know, obviously horses 829 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,680 don't think quite like that, but people start spending meaningful 830 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:13,280 time with their horses and the horses don't want to run away. 831 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,160 Like I don't have any horses here that don't want to be 832 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,440 caught. They, they will happily let 833 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,760 people wander in and out and mingle around with the rest of 834 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,800 the herd. And when you bring a horse away 835 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,520 from a group, I mean, we will practice on a daily basis just, 836 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,720 you know, they come into a pen for, for their feed or they'll 837 00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,880 come in for a little bit of a brush and they, they just learn 838 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,560 that they always go back to the group. 839 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,880 They're, they're not taken away and stressed out by it. 840 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:47,320 But one horse in particular that I'm thinking of spent a lot of 841 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,120 time. So it's the sort of horse that 842 00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:53,720 if he was left alone in a field, he would immediately start to, 843 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,560 to get anxious and stressed. And actually, he did really 844 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:01,440 injure himself very badly jumping out of the field at his 845 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,120 previous livery yards. And then unfortunately, while he 846 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:10,560 was recovering from having his wound fixed up and, you know, 847 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,440 box rest from that, his yard then had strangles. 848 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,320 So all of the horses were kept in their stables. 849 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,800 And actually, by the time I met him, he'd been in a stable for 850 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,920 the best part of a year. And he was just, everything 851 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,760 about him was agitated, like he was constantly nipping at his 852 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,720 owner. And every time I got close to 853 00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:35,680 him, he was nipping at me. And when when he first came and 854 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:41,040 joined the herd, it kind of, it blew his mind a bit really. 855 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,680 He he was probably the longest settler that we've had. 856 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,600 It took him about six months to fully integrate into the herd 857 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,160 and for me to be genuinely confident and happy that he 858 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,640 wasn't stressed and that he wasn't then causing the horses 859 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,200 stress by being anxious and stressed himself. 860 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,680 But when his owner comes now, she quite often brings her 861 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,800 nieces and nephews to have a little day out. 862 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:13,360 And when I tell you this horse pods out of the herd, you know, 863 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:18,920 being led by a four year old and they just they go for a walk off 864 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,720 across the fields. And this horse does not, doesn't 865 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,720 even slightly stress about the fact it's been taken away from 866 00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:30,760 its friends because it's been part of such a stable herd for 867 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:35,520 such a long time that he just accepts that he comes back to 868 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,080 it. But also, again, looking at 869 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:44,040 things like the link between gut health and brain and behaviour, 870 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:50,960 just having much more settled health has projected onto other 871 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:54,280 areas of his life as well, you know, so it's kind of the whole 872 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,520 package and lots of little things are at play. 873 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,280 But a horse that couldn't, couldn't be separated from other 874 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,160 horses because he would, he would physically injure himself 875 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,440 to get back to other horses is now in a situation where he can 876 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:13,120 be ridden by a four year old or led by a 2 year old and be of no 877 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,200 concern to anyone. You know, we're, we're just not 878 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,000 worried about him in that sense anymore. 879 00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,560 Wow. And I mean, we can hear so 880 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,280 clearly the wonderful behavioural benefits and 881 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,560 physical, mental, emotional benefits for the horses on a 882 00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,200 track system. They can forage the hedgerows, 883 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,680 they're constantly moving, they can relax. 884 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,360 They're, they're not at the mercy of the owners waiting for 885 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,720 them to turn up to be fed. They live a very natural 886 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:42,520 lifestyle and explain to us, Lauren, how there are extra 887 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,880 benefits to those who need rehabilitation and the sort. 888 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,200 Just give us a few examples of some of the transformations 889 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:53,160 you've seen of horses with some additional needs. 890 00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:59,800 Yeah, we, I mean we have, we started off as hoof rehab 891 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,720 essentially, mainly because of me doing barefoot trimming. 892 00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:06,240 It was kind of a natural progression to, to move into 893 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:11,320 that side of things. But as I mentioned with my 894 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:16,000 rescue horse, who who we saw a load of improvements in her 895 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,400 behaviour and her demeanour from it. 896 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,280 So essentially we, we do hoof rehab now and I, I kind of joke 897 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,040 that we're failed hoof rehab because nobody ever moved on. 898 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,800 Nobody moved on. They came and they, they stayed, 899 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,600 which is amazing because you know, we, we've got people that 900 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,000 have been with us for years and years now and hopefully, you 901 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:39,000 know, don't plan on leaving. So that's one of one of the 902 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,400 biggies. One of the things that a lot of 903 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,440 people start to look for track systems for another one is 904 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:50,360 weight management. And you would assume just obese 905 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,760 horses, but actually we're kind of working from both ends of the 906 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,680 scale. So we can have horses come in 907 00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,880 that are very underweight and horses that come in and are very 908 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:06,280 overweight and they can coexist on a track system and they 909 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,920 slowly move towards like the ideal. 910 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,840 And people don't really understand how that happens. 911 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,920 But it's, it's quite simple really if you think about it, 912 00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:26,360 because when a horse is moving and it can be an underweight 913 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,920 horse or an overweight horse. But when it is moving, the right 914 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,440 sort of amount of movement, you know, miles a day that it should 915 00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:39,800 be moving and eating the right amount of calories and nutrients 916 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,920 that it should be eating. And it's like a person, you 917 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,560 know, a lot of people are into their eating plans and going to 918 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:53,120 the gym and moving their bodies. A horse that is underweight that 919 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:58,600 has the adequate nutrition to gain muscle and gain weight, a 920 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,960 horse that is overweight is still getting the correct 921 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:06,600 nutrition to be able to shed the excess weight and again, build 922 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,040 muscle. So they're, they're literally 923 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,880 both heading towards the same thing. 924 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,320 And you know, you can add bucket feeds and tweak the diet 925 00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,160 slightly to add a few more calories in if you need to, but 926 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,760 some horses don't actually need that. 927 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:23,880 They just need the right amount of and the right type of forage. 928 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,680 So weight management is another big one. 929 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,840 The other real main one that a lot of people are looking for is 930 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,560 to deal with metabolic issues. So horses that have Cushings, 931 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:41,880 which is obviously a disorder that you can't cure, but the, 932 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:46,600 the sort of lifestyle that they have on a track really, really 933 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,760 supports the challenges that their body is facing. 934 00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,560 So, you know, a, a lot of people will talk about that they can 935 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,320 reduce the medication that their horses on if, you know, if 936 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:03,400 they're on medication for their Cushing's early stage, horses 937 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,200 might actually be able to come off medication completely, you 938 00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,680 know, if that's a really nice situation to be in. 939 00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,240 But ultimately it is a progressive disease and 940 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,560 generally horses will need to be on medication at some point for 941 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:15,560 it. But that's fine because the 942 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:20,080 management still supports the, you know, the certain risks that 943 00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,440 having Cushing's presents. Then we've got the horses 944 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:29,720 without other metabolic disorders, so EMS and IR, so 945 00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:35,080 insulin resistance. And again, this lifestyle is 946 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,880 promoting losing the excess weight that those horses very 947 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,360 often need now. So not all horses with EMS or 948 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,040 Internet resistance will be overweight, but quite often 949 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,760 they've got these awkward fat pads deposited around their body 950 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,640 and then the rest of their body looks skinny. 951 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,640 But again, it's just supporting losing that weight, having a. 952 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,760 A gut that is functioning as optimally as it can be. 953 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:10,320 And again, the mental health benefits to horses of being 954 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:20,440 around other horses is like, we don't really know why, but we 955 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,800 just know that it does have such a massive impact. 956 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,640 And, and again, we've had, you know, we've had rehabs come in 957 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:29,320 where the owner is doing everything. 958 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,560 So, so laminitis, I'm soaking the hay. 959 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,600 So yes, they're not having excess calories. 960 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,640 I'm, I'm giving this correct supplement. 961 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,600 You know, they've got a little paddock. 962 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,440 They're not just in a stable, in a stable all day. 963 01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,360 I don't know what else to do. And sometimes, you know, 964 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,840 especially at the kind of beginning of the journey, I was 965 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,680 a bit like, well, they're kind of doing everything. 966 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,440 I'm not really sure what else I can do because I'm going to be 967 01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,000 providing the same sort of things. 968 01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,640 Obviously they're going to have more opportunities for movement, 969 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:09,000 but I genuinely believe that the herd just functioning as a herd 970 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:15,480 just changes their Physiology and it just enables them to get 971 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,240 over that, that hump that's stopping the the healing from 972 01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,680 happening. I mean, we know from human 973 01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,040 studies that mental health has an impact on your on your 974 01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,680 physical. Health and isolation why would. 975 01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,400 That not apply for, Yeah. Why would that not apply to 976 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,960 horses and other animals, not just horses? 977 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,440 Absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's absolutely 978 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,680 fascinating to hear that because, you know, you're also 979 01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,480 describing my life. I've got some, you know, chronic 980 01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,320 laminitics and we've got a mud paddock and we've got various 981 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,480 shelters and stables left open that they can wander in and out 982 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,840 of and then make sure there's no grass in the vicinity and 983 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,720 they're on soaked tape. And we would absolutely love to 984 01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,800 make our own track system, but we're at the mercy of, of land 985 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,640 owners that don't want poaching or external materials added onto 986 01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,560 the land. So I'm listening to you in awe 987 01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,680 and in in great envy as well in that I would absolutely love to 988 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:07,920 kind of be able to work with the track system on on rented land. 989 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:12,560 And it's just not doable. But I can totally see how going 990 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,600 that extra mile and having that that track that they can move 991 01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,280 across that herd dynamic that you say as well is so healing 992 01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,760 since what they're naturally built to be within that. 993 01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,200 That is the next stage for those ponies that you feel like you're 994 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:29,480 doing everything you can, but you can't give that extra step 995 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:32,240 unless they go on a track. And that is the sort of the 996 01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,800 missing key. And, you know, I'm sure there 997 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,120 are so many listening to this as well, Lauren, that are also in 998 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,480 the same boat that think, well, well, I'm going to, you know, 999 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,240 chop down notes. I'm going to ballpark this for 1000 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,480 the future in the the hope that one day, you know, we can find a 1001 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,760 local track or build our own track on on land. 1002 01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,240 I mean, you must meet so many Lauren that want to pick your 1003 01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,800 brains and then find out how to how to build a track. 1004 01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,240 I mean how? Much maintenance does it take 1005 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,040 You mentioned everything you've built and put in, but how much 1006 01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:06,960 maintenance does it take to keep it up and running it It depends. 1007 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,000 It kind of it goes through peaks and troughets would seem. 1008 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,280 So at the moment we are investing in and building new 1009 01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,880 hay feeders, which you know is is a big thing. 1010 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,560 It's, it's not a cheap thing and it's going to take us a decent 1011 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,760 chunk of time to, to design with their designs now. 1012 01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,320 But it's taken a lot of going backwards and forwards on their 1013 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,320 design that we're happy with, which is going to provide the 1014 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,880 functionality that we need for the hair in protecting the hay, 1015 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,880 but also be safe for the horses to to use. 1016 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,320 And obviously we have ongoing things with, you know, replacing 1017 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,320 fence posts here and there and topping up a bit of surface here 1018 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,640 and there. But we're, we're at a position 1019 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,400 now where the maintenance isn't overwhelming. 1020 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,160 It's just, you know, it just trickles along and we, you know, 1021 01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,640 we plan certain things in for certain times of year. 1022 01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,480 So now that we're over, you know, the initial setup of 1023 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,720 everything, the maintenance certainly isn't overwhelming and 1024 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,640 it's certainly, you know, no difference to any other livery 1025 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,920 yard to be honest. It's just slightly different 1026 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,640 things to hear. When you see so many different 1027 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,240 elements, you know, and we, we have enough to kind of contend 1028 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,120 with, don't win an average field of what needs to be maintained. 1029 01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,880 You imagine that there would be so much more work with the track 1030 01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,720 system. But that is inspiring to hear 1031 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,360 that you can kind of set it up, get it all in place and then 1032 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,280 it's just sort of tweaks and bits here. 1033 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,280 That's fab to hear. Lauren, I've got to ask you, you 1034 01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,000 won best livery yard of the year last year. 1035 01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:43,160 Now, why do you think you were recognised and how did it feel 1036 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,440 to win? Well, I mean, to start with how 1037 01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,320 it felt it, it was, I still don't quite believe it. 1038 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,800 Essentially it's, it's quite an overwhelming thing. 1039 01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:58,000 And Katie, who runs the Equestrian Business Awards is, 1040 01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,240 is just amazing. And I think what she's doing 1041 01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:06,520 with those awards is just brilliant and giving, you know, 1042 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,840 a chance for track systems to be showcased. 1043 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:16,560 It's just incredible. I mean, I think they, you know, 1044 01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:20,120 obviously we, we spoke quite a lot before they decided on, you 1045 01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,560 know, who was going to win. And I think the focus is really 1046 01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:30,960 were on people who were going that extra mile with welfare, 1047 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:36,440 you know, trying to increase what's happening, you know, 1048 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:41,600 positively for horses. But also we talked quite a lot 1049 01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:46,560 about community. And obviously something that we 1050 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,600 focused on for years and years is trying to create the, the 1051 01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,640 Facebook community. And you know, that that people 1052 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,760 can actually reach each other. Because like I say, at the start 1053 01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,160 of my journey, I had nobody to talk to about it. 1054 01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:03,960 I, I couldn't find these people. And it was just, I was kind of, 1055 01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,600 I was out on a limb. I was on my own and I was having 1056 01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:11,440 to interpret what I was reading about in the Paddock Paradise 1057 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:15,280 book, but make it work for a completely different climate, 1058 01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,040 you know, because obviously in America, they, they've got sandy 1059 01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,480 soil and they don't have so much rain and, you know, they've got 1060 01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,160 lots of rocky areas. And so it was trying to adapt 1061 01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:29,440 that, you know, to to work in the country, in this country. 1062 01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,960 And I realised that that, I mean, everyone else that was 1063 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:37,360 hearing about tracks was facing the exact same issues. 1064 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:44,320 So I really enjoyed creating and participating in that community 1065 01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:48,280 of people that all want to do something to improve their 1066 01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,400 horse's life. And I know that not everyone can 1067 01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,840 set up a track and not everyone is in a position to set up a 1068 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,320 track, but there are so many different little tweaks and 1069 01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:01,200 elements that you can take from that, you know, and make it 1070 01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,800 work. So I think, you know, that 1071 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,320 that's, that's what was recognized with that, you know, 1072 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,720 building that community, helping people in a wider circle than 1073 01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:12,960 just, you know, the liveries here as well. 1074 01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,120 Well, congratulations, it's a huge achievement. 1075 01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,600 And it's like you say, so great to have a track system 1076 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:23,040 recognized, you know, as such a successful livery operation. 1077 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,160 I've got to ask you, Lauren, looking back at you just 1078 01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,480 mentioned, you know, you put in this track system to help your 1079 01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,520 own horse. Did you ever foresee the 1080 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:34,440 successful livery yard where you've got ways actually you've 1081 01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,720 given up on waiting lists because no one ever leaves you. 1082 01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,320 So there's very rarely A vacancy, but where you've you've 1083 01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,520 got so many happy clients, so many happy horses. 1084 01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,280 And a thriving business. Did you ever foresee that in 1085 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,320 your future? I didn't at all. 1086 01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,240 I think it's probably interesting to explain that, 1087 01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,360 that horses for me were always a hobby that I loved doing, but 1088 01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:02,640 never at any point in my life had I considered that I wanted 1089 01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:06,560 to work with horses. I've always worked with animals 1090 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,360 pretty much, but specifically working with horses wasn't 1091 01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,840 really on my radar at all. And when we experimented with 1092 01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,800 our first little track system and then when we moved to the 1093 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,840 farm that we're at now and decided to, yes, we're 1094 01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,439 definitely going to set up a track for, for the horses that 1095 01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,840 we have. The the reason we started to do 1096 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,920 livery was because a friend just wanted to come and look round 1097 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,960 and she said, do you mind if I bring my other friend with me? 1098 01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,680 And you know, I was like fine, absolutely fine. 1099 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:41,840 And they came, they had a look round and you know, we had lots 1100 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,560 to talk about. And a couple of weeks later her 1101 01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,240 friend messaged me and said, is there any chance you would 1102 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,120 consider having a horse on livery? 1103 01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:53,040 Because I'm having XYZ problem with my horse. 1104 01:08:53,960 --> 01:09:00,160 And I'll be completely honest, I am, I'm a bit of an introvert. 1105 01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:06,080 I don't really enjoy being on busy yards with lots of people 1106 01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:11,040 with lots of opinions and being able to, to move to our own 1107 01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:16,319 place and just have me and my horses and you know, my husband 1108 01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:20,479 and his horses. I was, I was really reluctant to 1109 01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:25,439 let go of that, but she was really lovely. 1110 01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,680 And I thought, do you know what? I was completely honest with her 1111 01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,200 and I said, look, let's just give it a go and see. 1112 01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:36,880 We'll see what comes of it. And they, they were with us for 1113 01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:42,160 nine years essentially. She she only left because work 1114 01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,960 took her back to Wales. So they eventually moved back to 1115 01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:49,200 Wales together. But yeah, that just started the 1116 01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,160 ball rolling really. And we saw such improvements 1117 01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,720 with him. It was hoof health and we such 1118 01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:58,520 saw such massive improvements with him, but it was kind of 1119 01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,120 like, OK, let's let's just look at taking on one more and then 1120 01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,040 one more. And then and then it was kind of 1121 01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,160 like, Oh no, we're definitely running a Liberty yard. 1122 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,560 And then we kind of, you know, ramped it all up and probably 1123 01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,520 became a bit more professional after that. 1124 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:17,000 But it was a very organic start, which was actually nice to me 1125 01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:21,040 because for me, because I didn't feel pressured into performing 1126 01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:23,360 in a certain way or making certain things work. 1127 01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:27,320 Wow, what a journey. Lauren, do you ever look back 1128 01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,200 and think it started off with £300 worth of electric fencing 1129 01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:35,040 and now we've got this huge, great, well established track? 1130 01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,840 I mean, how does that feel when you reflect on on the the 1131 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,200 evolution of the track? As well. 1132 01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,880 Yeah, it it's very much a sliding doors moment for me 1133 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:51,160 because you know, this horse that I chose to buy, this 1134 01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,760 trimmer that I chose to speak to, the book that I chose to 1135 01:10:54,760 --> 01:11:00,800 read, they're all things that could easily have not happened 1136 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,800 and wouldn't have led me in the direction they have. 1137 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,840 But, you know, I, I do often reflect and think what, you 1138 01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,880 know, what would I be doing with my horses if this hadn't 1139 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:14,120 happened? Or if that hadn't happened, 1140 01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,880 would I, you know, would we have moved to this farm and built a 1141 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,520 load of stables and fenced off a load of paddocks? 1142 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,400 And to be honest, we probably would have done. 1143 01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,880 And I would potentially be dealing with some of the, the 1144 01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,760 very common problem that other people with stabled horses are, 1145 01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:38,280 you know, dealing with. It's, it's really overwhelming, 1146 01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:43,600 but in a good way, I suppose, because when you really can 1147 01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:51,640 appreciate the impact that the system has had on so many 1148 01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:57,440 horses, you know, physically the horses that are here, but then 1149 01:11:57,440 --> 01:12:02,000 in turn, the owners that have really been struggling and then 1150 01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,160 have been able to come to an environment where their horses 1151 01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:09,720 aren't struggling anymore. And then that just kind of has a 1152 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,040 ripple effect outwards in general. 1153 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:18,000 And it's, it's just, it's, it's really humbling. 1154 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,440 I don't like to overuse the word humbling because it's a bit 1155 01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:24,680 cliche, isn't it? But it is just incredibly like 1156 01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,520 you sit back and take stock of it and it's just, I think it's a 1157 01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,240 bit of a wow moment quite often because to to be able to 1158 01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:35,520 appreciate all the things that have rippled out from it is it's 1159 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,240 just incredible. And Lauren, finally, what one 1160 01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:42,880 piece of advice would you give to those who want to set up 1161 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:46,520 their own track system either imminently or on their wish list 1162 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,360 in the future? I honestly think the most 1163 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:57,880 important thing is to just have an inquiring mind and to be open 1164 01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:03,840 to all the different things that that you might need to do all 1165 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,640 the changes you need to make along the way. 1166 01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:10,600 Like never be close minded because it's so easy to right. 1167 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:15,760 I'm doing this now and then just get stuck on that one journey. 1168 01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,880 And you know, for me, the track journey has has morphed and 1169 01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,760 changed as it's gone along. And if, if I didn't have an open 1170 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:28,480 mind to those changes, you know, I wouldn't have developed to the 1171 01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:31,000 stage that we have now. So yeah, I think I genuinely, 1172 01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,000 obviously, yes, having the materials and having the funds 1173 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,040 to do stuff is incredibly important. 1174 01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:42,200 But actually having the mindset to to set it up and keep 1175 01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:45,040 tweaking until you really feel like it's successful I think is 1176 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,680 the most important thing. Lauren, thank you so much for 1177 01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,640 coming on Curious a question sharing your incredible journey 1178 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,040 with us. For those listening who want to 1179 01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:58,200 check out, find out more, have a look at your track system, seek 1180 01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,200 advice and help. How can they make contact and 1181 01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,840 find you? So we are mainly on Facebook. 1182 01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:08,000 We do have other social media popping up and and going on in 1183 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,040 the background, but mainly on Facebook at Graveyacquine is our 1184 01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,520 page. And we also have the horse track 1185 01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:17,560 system group on Facebook. And I'm just in the process now 1186 01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,160 of setting up or resetting up my website, which is 1187 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,320 www.horsetracksystem.co.uk as well. 1188 01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,560 And that will hopefully be up and running again soon when it's 1189 01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,400 all been tweaked and fancied up a bit. 1190 01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:33,720 So yeah, I'm kind of everywhere, really. 1191 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,560 Finally, everywhere. And it's not just inspiring in 1192 01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:41,920 terms of track system inspo and help and advice, but also I love 1193 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,520 seeing your posts about, you know, trialling acorn collectors 1194 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,600 that we're all this time of year scrabbling around, aren't we, 1195 01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,240 trying to brush up all the acorns you were trialling out 1196 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,760 this sort of mechanical sort of broom thing that was picking it 1197 01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,400 all up and spinning it round. And there are lovely foraging 1198 01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:01,200 videos and and videos that make us laugh and horses stretching 1199 01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,200 and and all. Lots of lovely videos that that 1200 01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:05,840 either warm the heart or inspire us all as equestrians. 1201 01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,160 So definitely a community, as you mentioned on your Facebook 1202 01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:11,160 page. Yeah. 1203 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,280 And I think, yeah, I, I, I love people that have a sense of 1204 01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,840 humour about stuff because, you know, life, life can be hard. 1205 01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,680 And to be able to have a bit of a laugh about things as well, 1206 01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,240 It's, it's just, yeah, super important, I think. 1207 01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,640 Well, thank you so much, Lauren. I'm leaving full of motivation 1208 01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:31,320 and, you know, inspiration that one day I will get a track 1209 01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,720 system and and, you know, follow in in in your footsteps. 1210 01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:39,120 So thank you so much for sharing so much about your life and and 1211 01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:41,160 your horses. You're welcome. 1212 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,920 It's been really lovely. I love, you can probably tell I 1213 01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:48,280 love talking about it. I could talk to you all day, but 1214 01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:50,080 this podcast could be hours long. 1215 01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:52,920 Yeah. But we have to say goodbye. 1216 01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:55,520 So thank you, Lauren. Thank you.