1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,640 Welcome to day three of our Hay Crisis Special. 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,200 We're talking to three equestrians over three days to 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,400 find out how they and their horses are coping with the UK's 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,760 hay shortage after the dry spring recorded in 100 years. 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,760 Today, in the final part of our very special series, we're 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,200 talking to a livery yard owner who has struggled to source 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,800 enough hay for the dozens of horses in her care. 1 Hay 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,280 harvest shockingly set on fire during what was the hottest 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,880 summer on record in England. Lauren Johnson joins us now, the 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,880 owner of Grave new equine horse Track System in Faversham in 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,800 Kent, winner of Livery Yard of the Year 2024. 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,360 Lauren, thank you for coming on Curious Equestrian. 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,080 Before we get stuck into talking about how the hay crisis is 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,720 affecting you at the moment, talk us through your setup and 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:01,200 your herd of horses. OK, so I run a track system and 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:06,120 we essentially concentrate our forage on hay. 17 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,120 So we distribute hay around the track. 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,520 The track is to try and emulate what horses would do in the 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,600 wild. So we want them to to make 20 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,080 friends, we want them to have a herd. 21 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,800 We want them to move as far as they can in a day. 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,880 So, you know, some horses in wild and feral horses will move 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,280 around 30 miles a day depending on what they're looking for. 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,120 And obviously we need to try and emulate the forage that they 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,320 would eat as well. So unfortunately we don't have 26 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:39,440 the luxury of putting them out in fields all the time. 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,480 And yeah, hay is their main source. 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,640 So this year particularly has been quite a challenge when it 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,200 comes to hay. And obviously we're, we're quite 30 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,840 active on social media, so we've been talking to a lot of other 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,120 people about what they can do to try and, you know, brace 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,040 themselves and get through the year essentially. 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,040 And Lauren, how many horses do you provide hay for on your 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,040 livery? Track. 35 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,280 So we have 20 horses at the moment. 36 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:12,920 Yeah, we tend to fluctuate around the 20 or low 20s mark. 37 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,480 But actually, to be fair, we've got space for a couple of more, 38 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,360 but I probably won't be taking any on this year purely because 39 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,080 of the concern with the amount of hay that we can access at the 40 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,280 moment. And just talk us through what 41 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,360 you would usually do to hay your twenty horses on livery. 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,200 What does that look like through the day when there isn't a hay 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,080 crisis? OK. 44 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,000 So we have feeders dotted around our track. 45 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,480 Basically we have probably 10 or 12 main feeders which involve 46 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,120 taking a Bale of hay out, putting it into the feeder and 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,000 covering it up with a slow feeder net. 48 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,720 We then have some smaller Nets that we will dot around on a 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,440 daily basis just to mix it up a little bit. 50 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,640 And we will also put some loose hay around as well depending on 51 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:01,280 the weather though if not if it's all going to blow away. 52 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,640 Oh, it's such a struggle, isn't it? 53 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:08,240 Anyway, winter, let alone during a hay crisis. 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,200 Tell us how the shortage is affecting you Lauren at the 55 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:17,280 moment. So we are really lucky that on a 56 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,600 normal year we've got a fantastic hay supply. 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,800 So we used to make our own hay when we had slightly smaller 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,120 numbers of horses. And probably about six or seven 59 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,480 years ago we realised that what we have wasn't quite going to be 60 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,800 enough if we added extra horses to the track. 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,280 So we, you know, formed a, a really strong relationship with 62 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,600 a great hay supplier and he, he's been incredibly reliable. 63 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,440 He's been really open to discussing the requirements that 64 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,720 we have for our hay. So obviously we need a a low 65 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:53,480 sugar, low starch hay and he has essentially been amazing. 66 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,280 But there came a point this year when he realised that he just 67 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,600 wasn't going to have enough grass to make the hay that we 68 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,240 needed. So luckily I was also in 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,280 discussion with another contractor at the time and that 70 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,960 was purely luck really. I wasn't planning on switching. 71 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,000 It was someone that I got in contact with through a friend 72 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,120 who was getting hay from him. And I was actually more 73 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,120 interested in the fact that he was testing his hay in bulk, 74 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:27,960 which is something again, the horse track system kind of group 75 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,240 of people is really interested in, in the nutritional value of 76 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,800 hay. And someone that actually 77 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,520 actively tests their hay before they send it out was really 78 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,640 interesting to me. So I got chatting to this other 79 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,400 guy anyway, which it turned out has saved my bacon essentially. 80 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:51,600 But my hay supplier thought when he got to the point of actually 81 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,840 cutting the grass, he contacted me and said, look, I think I 82 00:04:55,840 --> 00:05:00,320 might just about be able to get the hay that you need for this 83 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,400 year. And I was like, OK, brilliant. 84 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,600 Because it's, it's always my least favorite time of the year, 85 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,640 trying to make sure that other things that can impact hay like, 86 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,360 you know, the rain, which obviously doesn't like to stop, 87 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,720 you know, doesn't affect things. I then got a phone call a few 88 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,560 hours later after he'd started cutting the hay to say that the 89 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,800 field was on fire. So because the weather was so 90 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,080 hot and the grass was so dry, it, you know, some sort of spark 91 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,200 from the machinery had basically set the hay field on fire. 92 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,680 So I feel that he would usually get around 500 large bales of 93 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,840 hay. So bales that weigh about two, 94 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:48,880 300 kilos. He got 80 bales off this year. 95 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,200 So I took a small amount from him and obviously I had to pay 96 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,560 extra per Bale, which was, you know, frustrating, but for both 97 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,840 of us. Not just for me, for him. 98 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,280 But I was able to obviously speak to another supplier that 99 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,520 brings hay in from all different places around the country. 100 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,800 And because I'm lucky enough to have a big barn to store it in, 101 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,840 I could get what I needed and get it safely into storage and, 102 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,480 you know, try and relax a little bit. 103 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,440 Because of course farmers that are having to buy hay in are 104 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,720 then having to increase their cost dramatically to pay for 105 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,360 their delivery of hay as well. Did you notice that ramp up in 106 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,200 in costs, Lauren? Yeah, there's been a huge ramp 107 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:42,040 up in costs and for instance, my hay bill on a yearly basis is 108 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,400 around eleven, 12,000 lbs or has been for the last few years. 109 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:54,000 And for slightly less hay this year I paid an extra £3000 which 110 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,240 is is a lot and and it's not a buffer that I can, you know, can 111 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,640 take on. I can't swallow that cost. 112 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,760 And my liveries have been amazing and they obviously 113 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,440 understand and I've explained it to them. 114 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,880 But yeah, I've had to put my prices up, which nobody wants to 115 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,520 do because everyone's struggling, aren't they, 116 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,480 financially at the moment? And that's the thing with such a 117 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,280 huge ramp up in costs, Lauren, it's like, where does that money 118 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,800 come from? You've had to increase your 119 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,640 costs. And for those with other types 120 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,640 of work that might have a a work contract, they're not going to 121 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,840 see an increase in their wages to cover the hay costs. 122 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,160 So it's an absolute impossible situation isn't it, for hay, for 123 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,720 horse owners at the moment? It is and historically livery 124 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:43,560 yard owners do try and swallow a lot of the costs in increases, 125 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,920 which, you know, they just don't have the buffer to do. 126 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,480 There's there's so many livery yards that are unfortunately 127 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,400 just about covering their costs. Livery yard owners that aren't 128 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,600 paying themselves and haven't paid themselves for months, you 129 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,840 know that they're just, the money's coming in from the 130 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,280 liveries and it's going straight back out on, you know, things 131 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,920 like, hey, at the moment. And you see, don't you, in a 132 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,880 ride in schools livery shutting down because they just can't 133 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,480 cope with the increase in costs? Yeah, yeah. 134 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,960 They, they can't cope with the increase and also, you know, the 135 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,120 clients because they're being pulled financially in all 136 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,320 directions at the moment. You know, everybody's bills have 137 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,200 gone up in general, household bills, you know, the cost of 138 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,720 food, the cost of living has really gone up. 139 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,880 And livery clients are looking for something cheaper and 140 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:40,440 cheaper and cheaper. And in our area, we've seen some 141 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:45,640 of the really big livery yards that have just, you know, shut 142 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:46,960 down. We can't do it anymore. 143 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,680 And obviously, as soon as they're offered a bit of money 144 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,680 for, you know, land for housing, it's a no brainer for them, 145 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:55,960 isn't it? It's it's let's get rid of the 146 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,760 the noose around the neck, essentially. 147 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,920 And there's less and less land for us to keep our horses on. 148 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,840 And you constantly see, don't you? 149 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,400 And across Facebook and across forums, people looking 150 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,040 desperately looking for for livery spaces or land to rent. 151 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,680 And it just becomes more and more of a problem. 152 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,680 But jumping back, Lauren, to to the farmer saying to you, my 153 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,400 field is on fire. I mean, what crossed your mind? 154 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,960 Because this is essentially climate change, isn't it, with 155 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,520 increase in temperatures and and the climate that we're seeing? 156 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,640 Yeah. And, you know, we usually have 157 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,920 every few years there will be inclement weather. 158 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,960 That means, you know, the hay supplies a little bit touch and 159 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,880 go. We might be waiting for a break 160 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,520 in the rain. And you know, sometimes we do 161 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,240 have slightly hotter years in the grass. 162 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,040 The yield is slightly down in general. 163 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,080 But it was kind of, I felt like I was on a bit of a roller 164 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,920 coaster because we had, I don't think I'm going to have enough 165 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,160 looking at the grass. And then we went to, I think we 166 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,200 might just about have enough. And then to the, the it's on 167 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,720 fire phone call, I, yeah, I panicked essentially. 168 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,880 I remember talking to one of my libraries a few minutes after 169 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,880 the phone conversation and being like, I genuinely don't know 170 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,920 what I'm going to do at the moment because obviously I've 171 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,360 got people I can contact, but there's absolutely no guarantee 172 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,640 that they will take me on as a new client. 173 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,440 And you know, luckily because I'd kind of been chatting to the 174 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,440 this other contractor, I was able to secure hay. 175 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,240 But there will be a lot of people who, you know, they 176 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,960 aren't able to, to get the hay off their usual supplier. 177 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,560 And you know, as tends to happen in these sorts of events that 178 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,800 hay suppliers will try and do their best for their current 179 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,880 clients, but they don't have the capacity to take any more 180 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,960 clients on. And that is, that's the position 181 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,720 that a lot of people are in at the moment. 182 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,840 They're looking for a new supplier and they just cannot 183 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,400 find anyone. And it's absolutely terrifying. 184 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,920 And I know you said, Lauren, it was great relief shutting those 185 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,000 barn doors knowing that you'd got enough hay for the rest of 186 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,600 the year. And we all know that feeling. 187 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,320 We just about secured hay recently for our autumn delivery 188 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,680 that was double the cost and almost triple the delivery cost, 189 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:20,440 which was a, you know, hugely frightening and, and really 190 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,600 difficult financially. But for those who are actually 191 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,000 facing going from supplier to supply and not being able to 192 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,280 find any, what I mean, what are their options? 193 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,880 Do you know Lauren? Well, this is something that, 194 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:34,720 you know, I've been trying to think through. 195 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,560 So we've got a fairly big Facebook community especially, 196 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:43,600 and, you know, we're trying to help people with lots of 197 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,640 different plans essentially. So obviously we're telling 198 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:52,240 people if they have the capacity to stock up, so if they've got a 199 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,560 barn or if they've got a space that they can maybe share with a 200 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:57,080 friend. So maybe they couldn't afford to 201 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,800 rent a barn on their own, but a few friends clubbing together. 202 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,720 If, if you can say to a supplier, look, I can, I've got 203 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,080 capacity for a couple of 100 bales of hay. 204 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,680 You're much more likely to, you know, secure a large load of 205 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:11,920 hay. And again, hopefully that's 206 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,400 going to get you through the winter or through, you know, the 207 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,800 rest of the year if you're lucky. 208 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:21,040 Another thing we're doing is we are, you know, really 209 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,920 encouraging people to, to look at how they're storing their 210 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,640 hay. So a lot of people will, you 211 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,840 know, get a pile of hay and, and throw a tarpaulin over it and 212 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,160 hope for the best. And, you know, if you lose a few 213 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,560 bales throughout the winter, it's not so much a big, big 214 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:36,080 deal. But this year, like, every 215 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,800 single Bale is going to count. So people need to, yeah, if they 216 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,960 can get some kind of barn storage, brilliant. 217 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,080 But if not, looking at some of the specialist tarpaulins that 218 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,600 actually will still let the hay breathe and they won't trap 219 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,800 moisture underneath them. There are quite a few of those 220 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,800 brands available. I mean we've got loads of 221 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,400 suggestions. Another one is looking at either 222 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,000 supplementing with hailage because obviously the the 223 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,880 growing and the times have cut off hay and hailage are some, 224 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,720 you know a bit different. So it might be that in some 225 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,040 areas there is more hailage available, but obviously there 226 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,560 is a potential for gut upset if people are swapping between hay 227 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,520 and hailage. So that's something people need 228 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,440 to think about. It's not something I could do. 229 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,160 I've got horses that are sensitive and I couldn't swap to 230 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,760 hailage, so that wouldn't work for me personally, but it might 231 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,200 for some people. Another thing would be looking 232 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,360 at mixing a certain percentage of straw in as a forage replacer 233 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:44,000 and a bulk item essentially. So horses generally can tolerate 234 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,800 up to about a maximum of 50% of straw in their diet. 235 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,800 It's something that needs to be done very gradually, though, 236 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,160 certainly not just straight to to lots of straw because it 237 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,960 obviously has the potential to cause colic impaction colic if 238 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:03,000 you switch over to that. But it's it's good for good 239 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,720 doers because there's not many calories in it. 240 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,440 So it's something that's actually a really good option to 241 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,560 swap to. But again, you know, the 242 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:16,400 availability of straw is not guaranteed this year either 243 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,240 because it's a crop and it's had the same issues as the grass 244 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,080 has. So that's, that's potentially, 245 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,680 you know, not going to be a, a goer for some people. 246 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Then they need to look at the hay replacements basically. 247 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:36,120 So different kind of hay nuts, hay cobs, the chaffs that you 248 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,640 can get, you know, just bagged chaffs from the feed store 249 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:43,800 essentially using those again, just partially replacing 250 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:50,280 obviously the supply of those sort of products into the market 251 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,320 are a bit more stable. So even if there is a bad year, 252 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,240 the companies will have more of a contingency for getting those 253 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,040 products to the market still anyway. 254 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,240 So that might be something that people can look to, to bulking 255 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:08,200 out their feeds with On a wastage side of things, we're 256 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,560 encouraging people to, you know, use slow feedinet. 257 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,600 So if you've, you know, you're usually putting hay out loose. 258 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,720 If you use a slow feedinet, they're going to slow down the 259 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120 consumption slightly, but also they're going to reduce the 260 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,960 wastage. So you're, again, you're, you're 261 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,520 looking at not just not using as much hay potentially, but not 262 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,680 wasting like clawing back the wastage. 263 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,200 Because I, I mean, as a livery yard owner, I know a lot of 264 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,440 livery yard owners will agree, especially when horses are 265 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,800 stabled, there's the potential for a lot of wastage of hay 266 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,640 getting, you know, turned into bedding and trampled on and 267 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,200 going to the toilet on it. So looking at ways to, to stop 268 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,120 hay being wasted as well. It's really important. 269 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,080 There's something else again, which is depending on how you 270 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,800 keep your horses, you can look at utilising pasture and 271 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,760 grasslands. So one of the things I 272 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,160 personally thought about and was planning on doing if I needed to 273 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,000 was using my middle field as standing hay. 274 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,920 We don't tend to do that on a year to year basis purely 275 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,520 because we have some horses that are very sensitive and wouldn't 276 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,920 cope well with it. But for me it would have been a 277 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,720 case of having to split the herd into two groups so the horses 278 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,760 that can cope with it and the horses that can't. 279 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,200 So the ones that can would have had more access to that. 280 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,040 And to be honest, I'm still not completely, you know, Pooh 281 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,320 poohing that idea. Depending on how we go through 282 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,880 the hay in the next few months, it might be something that I do 283 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,920 in the winter for, you know, a few of the horses that can cope. 284 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,040 The, the other thing is considering different species of 285 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,400 hay. So you know, generally, I mean 286 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,160 for me personally, I, I have a Meadow hay, I have a mixed 287 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:03,920 Meadow hay, but there are other crops such as Timothy hay and 288 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,839 alfalfa hay and sanfoin hay that actually fare slightly 289 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,119 differently in the, the very wet and then the drought conditions 290 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,000 that we've had. So those crops might be more 291 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,160 successful. And again, I wouldn't advice 292 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,720 switching completely over to a different type of hay, but if 293 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,280 you can mix it in, that means that you're just again, just 294 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,280 eking out your supply, mixing in a few different things. 295 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,840 And like I say there, there might be more of a supply of 296 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,760 certain crops that just fare better in drought conditions. 297 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,720 Oh, that's so interesting. And Lauren, are you using chaff 298 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,560 you mentioned, are you using it as a hay replacement? 299 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,320 And how do you do that for those who might be thinking they 300 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:52,600 should? So I probably wouldn't purely 301 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,400 because of the number of horses we have it, it it would work out 302 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,560 expensive. Basically it it's one of those 303 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,440 things that I would only look to doing personally for a large 304 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:08,280 group of horses if if we really didn't have any other options, 305 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,760 because again, it would be a lot of buying in and it would be a 306 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,600 much increased cost to normal forage, you know, kilo for kilo. 307 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,040 But if people are going to do it, I would suggest looking to 308 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,560 create slow feeders for the chaff. 309 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,000 So for me, that would look like a big bucket or container, 310 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,200 putting some of the chaff in, but then filling it with, I 311 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,360 mean, trying to use your imagination, filling it with 312 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:38,440 things like footballs that the horses have to kind of move 313 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:39,920 around. They can't just shove their face 314 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,960 in and eat, eat, eat. They've got to move the 315 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,120 footballs around and, you know, look for it and get to it. 316 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,600 Yeah. It's just trying to come up with 317 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,440 imaginative ways of slowing them down, essentially. 318 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,680 And for those, I'm actually really interested to ask you 319 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,160 this from a on a personal level as well, Lauren. 320 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,720 So round where I'm based in the southeast of England, but 321 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,760 towards the east, we've been told, as you mentioned, to use 322 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,840 some hailage as well in with our hay to try and count the forage 323 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,840 because again, hay supplies is really difficult around here, 324 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,120 very, very low and and hay suppliers only supplying their 325 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:23,520 regulars. And even then we've only just 326 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,440 about got enough. So very difficult. 327 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,600 But you mentioned about the gut upset and I've only just started 328 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,040 stocking in halage and I've moved my cob onto part hay, part 329 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,560 halage every day. And then we've got the 330 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,600 miniatures who are on purely soaked hay because they're 331 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,920 laminitic prone. We've got a very very low sugar 332 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,720 halage that they don't seem to do too well on permanently but 333 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,960 the odd day is OK. But I was going to ask you, can 334 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,200 they be on say hey for a week and then do one day on halage? 335 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,800 Or you mentioned gut upset. Is that going to be a bad thing 336 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,960 to suddenly have one day halage? Yeah. 337 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,920 So that's, I guess there's a bit of nuance to that. 338 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,880 So I definitely wouldn't go, you know, hay for six days and then 339 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,040 a hailage day. What I would do is start adding 340 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,800 in. So if you know you're you're 341 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,240 going to use say 7 bales of hay or 7 bales across a week. 342 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,840 And so you've got 6 bales of hay and one Bale of hailage. 343 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,680 Just to sort of make the numbers easier. 344 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,200 Instead of doing the, you know, 6 days of hay and one day of 345 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,920 hailage, I would spread the hailage ration out over the week 346 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,520 instead. I would look to do that. 347 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,040 What happens when you introduce a new feed stuff to your horse 348 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,480 is their gut essentially has to make sure it's got the right 349 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,560 microbes to deal with processing that food. 350 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,040 And you know, one of the biggest causes of colics or even 351 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,880 laminitis is when a new feed is introduced very rapidly. 352 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:09,320 The bacteria in the gut aren't familiar with the feed and very 353 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,840 simply you have a mass die off event of the gut bacteria. 354 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:17,240 And when those gut bacteria die, they will release toxins. 355 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,560 So that's when you have things like laminitis occurring because 356 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,280 essentially your horses system has a huge amount of toxins 357 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,440 pouring into it. Obviously with things like 358 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,960 colic, when you introduce a new feed stuff, it can impact the, 359 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,880 the speed that the forage is moving through the guts. 360 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,440 So again, that applies to if you're adding straw to your, the 361 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,200 diet as well to the rations as well. 362 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,400 It's so impacting the speed things move through the gut. 363 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,280 And just again, with the the change in bacteria, you're 364 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,960 you're much more likely to get either impactions or completely 365 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,160 the opposite and get some kind of diarrhea type episode as 366 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,400 well. The other thing to consider when 367 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,600 looking at halage is that it is a slightly different pH to hay, 368 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,520 obviously because of the fermentation process. 369 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,640 And some horses seem to cope with that absolutely fine. 370 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,280 Other horses just never quite, you know, sit right with halage 371 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,080 and they can even kind of move on to the heine gut acidosis, 372 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,080 which again is something that you, you know, if you identify 373 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,840 that you would definitely need to come away from the halage 374 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,960 because it, you know, you're upsetting the gut microbiome too 375 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,200 much essentially. It's so interesting you say 376 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,600 this, Lauren, because you know, not only locally but from feed 377 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,720 suppliers, is this being encouraged? 378 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,400 But also vets are saying as well about moving on to Halage. 379 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,760 But actually, even as experienced horse people like 380 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,120 myself, I was not told that there was gut issues when moving 381 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,680 them between the two. They just said you could use it 382 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,440 to bolster the hay supply without any kind of warning. 383 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,320 So thank you for sharing that because, you know, it really is 384 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,040 important that we educate ourselves into what can happen 385 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,280 if we actually move too quickly between the two when we're 386 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,760 actually all in this desperate scenario where we're trying to 387 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,360 get our hay supply. What else can we use? 388 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,800 How can we, you know, stop our hay supply going down too 389 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,360 quickly? But actually hailage may not be 390 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,160 the answer, even if we've got experienced vets or, you know, 391 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,960 feed merchants telling us, oh, that's what we're all doing and 392 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,800 and that's going to be successful for you. 393 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Yes, and this this is one of the reasons that I've I've been 394 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,520 quite vocal in trying to encourage people to plan because 395 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,640 you know, the person that wants to say like yourself wanting to 396 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,520 use halage, the person that plans that in to their regime a 397 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,440 few months in advance is much less likely to have problems 398 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,120 than a person that goes, oh, we're out of hay. 399 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,320 I'm going to have to go and buy something from the feed shop. 400 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,280 And then, you know, all they've got is the wrapped bales of 401 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,320 halage. If you're able to gradually 402 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,600 introduce something into their diet, you're going to have a 403 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,360 much higher chance of success of that transition than if you're 404 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,880 putting certain feed in and then completely switching to a new 405 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,400 forehead. You know that that's really, 406 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,520 really dangerous and really asking for trouble. 407 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,640 Well, thank you for sharing because that's helped me not 408 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,040 only personally, but I'm sure there are many others like me 409 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,480 doing the same or looking for options like this and not being 410 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,920 given those kind of warning factors as well. 411 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,880 Lauren, when you look ahead to the winter, how are you feeling 412 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,440 and what worries you as we all move forwards, you know, as part 413 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:46,240 of this equestrian community? So winter for me is always a 414 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:52,160 time when I just try and, you know, I, I just imagine myself 415 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,200 hunkering down and just planning on getting through it 416 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,920 essentially. But I think as equestrians, we 417 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,000 are facing so many more challenges. 418 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,280 And I don't know if I just have a very romanticized view of 419 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,640 children when I was a child and having ponies, but it just, it 420 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,040 never seemed quite as hard. And I know I didn't have to pay, 421 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,080 you know, the brunt of the cost of things when it was when I was 422 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,120 very young and it was my parents looking after me. 423 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:27,160 But it feels like every year we are just dealing with more and 424 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,520 more problems. So obviously we talked about 425 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,520 earlier the, the reduction in available livery yard spaces 426 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,400 and, and also, you know, linked to that, it's not just 427 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,920 equestrian land that's being sold for housing developments, 428 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,880 it's farmland as well. So actually hay supply is being 429 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,880 reduced from kind of both both angles really. 430 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,680 We've been kind of being attacked from all different 431 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,520 angles. You know, I know personally I 432 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,040 have had to deal with quite an increase in staffing costs this 433 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,120 year, which again, you know, I'm absolutely all four people 434 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,000 getting a wage that they can survive on. 435 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,920 But as a small business, again it eats into your profits 436 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,760 essentially. So you know, we've had an 437 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,440 increase in the minimum wage or an out of a living wage. 438 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,440 We've had an increase in National Insurance costs as 439 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,920 well. The supply of things like 440 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,400 electricity and water haven't been too bad for us this year 441 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,960 increasing wise. But you know, this hay supply 442 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,920 issue was a real kicker essentially. 443 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,400 And like I say, I just had no buffer there to absorb that 444 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,760 amount of of increase in costs. And as you mentioned, the 445 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,960 increase in everything, the cost of living, the, the cost of food 446 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,840 in the supermarkets and, you know, bills in our homes. 447 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,960 We're all, you know, feeling that pinch on top of the hay 448 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,920 crisis. And, and you bring to our 449 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,200 attention, Lauren, about your hay man. 450 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,120 You know, there he is farming the field. 451 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,120 If the hay is on fire, then we're not even bringing into the 452 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,040 conversation as well that this could be a more common 453 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,720 occurrence as climate change continues. 454 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,960 And actually, you're the first I've heard. 455 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,440 But could it be all of us next year or the year after? 456 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,920 We're in five years time where our our hay farmers are seeing 457 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,440 the hay quite literally set alight in front of them. 458 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,600 Yeah, and climate change is is a massive thing to consider in 459 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,320 lots of different aspects of the equine world. 460 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,880 But yeah, essentially, you know, are we looking at every time a 461 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,440 farmer? So we farm as well. 462 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,840 So we kind of see the other side of the page, so to speak. 463 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,680 Every time a farmer has a really challenging year with a certain, 464 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,640 you know, crop or product, you know, you have to sit down at 465 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,560 the end of that year and say, is this worth the stress? 466 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,720 Are we making enough money from this? 467 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,200 Do we have to look at doing something else? 468 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,880 And again, you know, do we sell the land for housing? 469 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,160 Do we decide to plant a different crop? 470 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,160 Do we rent it to someone else for something else? 471 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:11,840 So, you know, climate is a really difficult thing to deal 472 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,320 with anyway when you're farming. But obviously from the other 473 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,640 side, not just the hay supply side, looking at things like the 474 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,960 availability of winter turn out, you know, that is something that 475 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,520 a lot of livery yard owners are struggling with. 476 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,040 Now. Obviously we have a surface 477 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,920 track system, so we're never going to be in a position where 478 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,320 we're going. We've just got acres of mud. 479 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,280 We can't put the horses out. But you know, that that's a very 480 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,000 real problem for yard owners now is they're they're looking at 481 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,800 fields that are completely churned up and poached by early 482 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,400 winter, you know, not even getting into the new year. 483 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,240 And there's there's this really difficult balance of, you know, 484 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,520 do do we take on more livery clients so we can get in a bit 485 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,840 more money and then we can do XY and Z. 486 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,800 Maybe we can afford to put in a couple of turn out pens or maybe 487 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,040 we can afford to put in a little bit of a track system. 488 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,760 But a lot of places are finding that because people don't want 489 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,960 to pay as much for their livery because they've got all the 490 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,320 other pressures on on their finances, that livery yards are 491 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,920 essentially overstocking. When actually it would be much 492 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,080 better to have 10 people paying £600 a month, but what they've 493 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,240 ended up with is 20 people paying £200 a month. 494 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,400 It's all, there's so many different aspects isn't there? 495 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,480 And the fact that we we're all using this year as as this 496 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,560 example is what we're going through at the moment, the 497 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,280 panic. Will we be able to get through 498 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,880 the autumn, the winter, will our hay last? 499 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,440 But none of us, yeah, I think it's too scary a prospect to 500 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,120 think about next year and the year after. 501 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,000 The reason we're seeing this hay shortage is because of the 502 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,920 weather and because of the drought and the dry conditions 503 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,840 and that and the grass and the hay not growing. 504 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,680 You know, is this going going to be a usual year for us in the 505 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,760 coming years ahead? And, and it, you know, it's 506 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,480 increasingly likely to be honest. 507 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,920 And I think years like this year make us, you know, look outside 508 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,160 of, of what we're used to slightly. 509 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,760 And I know that some of the bigger hay suppliers and 510 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,720 contractors are bringing in hay, which a lot of people do anyway 511 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,040 every year. But they're bringing hay into 512 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,560 the country, you know, in August and September, when usually it's 513 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,440 much later in the year when you start to see, you know, 514 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,360 shipments of hay coming over from Europe, essentially. 515 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,760 So is that something that's going to become more normal, in 516 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,400 which case the cost of hay will permanently go up a lot? 517 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,640 You know, transporting hay around the country isn't cheap. 518 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,520 And it might be, you know, that that's something that we need 519 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,880 to, you know, can we, can we suck up that cost? 520 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,040 Can we afford that cost? And, you know, as a, as a track 521 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:19,240 livery owner, it's, it's scary in the way that I can't rely on 522 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:25,880 grass for, you know, any real amount or percentage of our 523 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,040 horses diet. It has to be a forage that we 524 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,320 know the sugar levels in because we, we can't take that risk. 525 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,320 We've considered putting some of our own land down as hay so that 526 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,760 we, you know, we have our own supply. 527 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,200 But that brings different challenges for us because 528 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,040 because we're arable farmers as well, It would mean potentially 529 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,720 facing a clash between hay season and arable season. 530 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,400 And we don't have the manpower to be able to, you know, set 531 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,000 lots of people different off on lots of different tasks. 532 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,400 I think it was last year actually that because of the 533 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,920 rain, although the grass was growing, there was never a 534 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,760 period of time long enough for them to be able to cut the hay 535 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,480 and to bail the hay. I remember saying to my husband 536 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,720 that I'm actually really glad that we didn't decide to grow 537 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,560 hay this year because what, what would we be doing? 538 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,080 Like we can't not harvest the crop because we need to do the 539 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,840 hay. And obviously, you know, being 540 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,400 able to, to finance, getting all of the equipment for it, but 541 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,080 also then just taking on the stress yourself of having the 542 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,840 time and the money to produce your own hay. 543 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,960 It's, it sounds like a lovely idea, but actually it's quite 544 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,000 challenging in itself. And it's, it's something that 545 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,520 we've decided for the last few years that that we're not going 546 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,800 to do. But again, it's something that 547 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,720 we will have to have a conversation about this year. 548 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,240 Is it something that we look into again? 549 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,360 Yeah, and you're totally reliant on the weather working with you, 550 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,400 aren't, aren't you? And if we had less extreme 551 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,160 seasons, it it may be the case that actually we wouldn't be in 552 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,880 this situation, would be in, you know, you could, you know, grow 553 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,560 your own hay and, and there wouldn't be a shortage 554 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,840 nationwide. And it, it's, it's so 555 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,920 interesting what you say, because actually I've been 556 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,040 thinking it without realising them, without verbalising it 557 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,360 about horse ownership becoming more difficult. 558 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,120 And like you say, that's even not even mentioning the, the 559 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,960 financial rise, a huge increase in costs right across the board 560 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,960 in, in looking after our horses. But even thinking about the 561 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,440 workload, you know, through a lifetime, as many of us are 562 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,160 lifetime horse keepers. I remember many years ago being 563 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,560 able to have horses out on grass that were susceptible to 564 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,360 laminitis, but the, the grass was not so full of the sugars as 565 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,000 it is now. It was much more manageable. 566 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,480 Whereas now we're seeing these extreme weather conditions and 567 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000 we're seeing things like spring, like grass coming through at 568 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,280 all, all times through the year, Grass that's really, really 569 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,080 short and sugary. And actually we've got 570 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,840 laminitics that now can no longer go on grass at all, you 571 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,800 know, not even in any kind of monitored way. 572 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,440 So again, they're more, they're more in need of us. 573 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,320 They're more intensive to to, to look after and with the extreme 574 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,320 weathers it become, everything becomes more difficult, doesn't 575 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,120 it? And more hard work, hard labour 576 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,199 and hard graft caring for our our beloved animals. 577 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,360 Yeah, absolutely. And I really feel for people 578 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,719 because, you know, horses generally and hopefully God 579 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:51,239 willing, have fairly long lives. So if if people have taken on a 580 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,960 commitment, you know, 10 years ago and they're looking at 581 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,000 another, you know, possibly even 20 years of commitment to that 582 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,880 animal. Now, obviously people having to 583 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:10,000 face the reality of do I have to sell my horse, which for a lot 584 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320 of people is unavoidable, essentially. 585 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,120 But you're also looking at selling your horse into a market 586 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,080 that is flooded with people having to make similar 587 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,360 decisions. You know, and I've, I've, I've 588 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,760 known a few people, you know, within my friendship groups that 589 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,120 have actually made the decision to have their horses put to 590 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,720 sleep rather than risk them going to onto, you know, onto a 591 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,240 life of completely unknown circumstances. 592 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,400 You know, once you've sold that horse, you've got no control 593 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,080 over what happens to it in the future. 594 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,120 And, you know, these, these are animals that people have taken 595 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,880 on intending to have a lifetime commitment to them and then 596 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,360 finding themselves in a position where they, they can't fulfil 597 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,920 that commitment. And it's, it's just incredibly 598 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,280 hard. And again, I'm in a really lucky 599 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,480 position that we, we've got our farm lands, you know, so I've 600 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,040 always got somewhere for my horses. 601 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,320 But I'm, you know, painfully aware that other people don't 602 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,840 have that, you know, that facility themselves and they've 603 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,520 got to find somewhere or someone to be able to, to take on their 604 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,720 horse if they can't afford it. It's either that or, you know, 605 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,480 again, they're looking for the cheapest livery possible or 606 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:32,080 other areas of their life are, you know, being sacrificed to to 607 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,240 put all of their money in towards their horses. 608 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,040 Absolutely. And you know, you summarise that 609 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,240 so, so well, Lauren, and, and really sensitively as well 610 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,480 because as you say, no one could have foreseen this cost of 611 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,160 living crisis that we're in at the moment, let alone off the 612 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,800 back of the pandemic as well. So it's been an incredible sort 613 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,040 of five years. Isn't it? 614 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,600 Incredibly difficult? Dare I ask Lauren what you think 615 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,360 horse ownership is going to look like in the next 5 years? 616 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,160 I know that's a really difficult question to ask and very 617 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,320 unrealistic for any of us to try and answer, but can you even 618 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,240 begin to imagine what that might look like? 619 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,960 Do you ever worry about a five year plan business wise in terms 620 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,720 of horses? Yeah. 621 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,520 I mean from, from my own perspective, business wise, I 622 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:20,080 always like to have kind of a generic 10 year plan in place 623 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,680 and a much more specific five year plan. 624 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,880 And you know we do that in all aspects of the farm as well. 625 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,040 It's not just to do with the livery side of things. 626 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:38,880 I genuinely think we are getting to a point where horse ownership 627 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,680 is becoming elitist again, and not in a bad way. 628 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,320 You know, it's not people with lots of money saying, oh, you 629 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,120 know, you people don't deserve horses. 630 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,440 It's purely the, there's a massive percentage of people 631 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,960 that just cannot afford it anymore and people that you 632 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,640 know, could afford it previously. 633 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,040 And I, and I really think the only people who are able to do 634 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,640 horse keeping on a budget now are those that are lucky enough 635 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,520 to find, you know, those random 2 acre paddocks that, you know, 636 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,720 belong to, again, a farmer or you know, someone's just been 637 00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,000 renting it out for horses for years and they perhaps don't 638 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,520 realise the money they could be making from that field. 639 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,400 I mean, just as an example. So obviously I'm in the 640 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:31,280 southeast and we have a paddock across the road from us that 641 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,120 we're not renting out currently because it needs attention. 642 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,560 So it needs new fencing and, you know, it needs to have a good 643 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,440 old weed kill session essentially. 644 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:48,040 We've had people offering us £500 a month for an acre of 645 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,440 land, which is, you know, insane. 646 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,600 It's absolutely insane. But people are that desperate 647 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,600 to, you know, find somewhere to, to put their horses on because 648 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,360 they, you know, they can't afford to keep, you know, maybe 649 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,200 four horses at a livery yard. But to be able to put them in a 650 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,560 field together is is slightly more manageable. 651 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,560 But yeah, I think we're looking at a real sort of divergent and 652 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,840 split in the way people are going to keep their horses. 653 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,280 And I think it's unavoidable to be honest. 654 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,640 And I know from the livery yard owner perspective, there's a big 655 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,760 push and a big drive towards livery yards being licensed, 656 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:39,160 which again, it's going to cut out those loopholes for people 657 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,960 that want something cheaper and perhaps have access to something 658 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,240 cheaper. Because obviously if it's a 659 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:49,840 farmer being told that you've got to be licensed now to have 660 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,160 horses on your property to run any kind of livery, you know, 661 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,360 they're just going to say I'm not going to do it. 662 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,880 No thanks, I'm out. And, you know, those, those 663 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,720 little pockets of land that people are managing to kind of 664 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:04,480 keep hold of are going to be lost. 665 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,760 Oh, I mean a terrifying and frightening thought. 666 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,400 And thank you for sort of going there, Lauren. 667 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,240 So I know it's all something we really don't want to think 668 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,080 about, particularly like you mentioned, for those of us who 669 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,360 are renting, you know, odd bits of acreage here and there, 670 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,560 something that I try not to think about. 671 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,640 But when we have these discussions, I think it's 672 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,840 unavoidable. You then start, your mind starts 673 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,680 to wander, doesn't it? If it's difficult now, what's it 674 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,680 going to be like in the future? And we need to be ready as as 675 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,720 horse owners, don't we, if we're going to try and, and combat the 676 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,000 challenges to be able to keep our equines. 677 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,960 But thank you so much for, for delving into some really 678 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,240 difficult topics, but also for sharing your story and, and how 679 00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:46,760 you guys are affected in the current hay shortage crisis. 680 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,360 Lauren, just mention your Facebook page for those who 681 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,680 haven't seen it and for those who might want to go and check 682 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,280 out your tips and tricks and see all your lovely videos of acorn 683 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,600 collecting and and foraging. As well for the horses, yeah. 684 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,960 So we are mainly based on Facebook, so we are called 685 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,160 Gravely Equine and we also have a Facebook group, a really 686 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,600 lovely active Facebook group called Horse Track Systems. 687 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,000 So you generally find me in one of those two places. 688 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,960 I do occasionally venture onto other platforms, but you know, I 689 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,680 do tend to concentrate on Facebook. 690 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:25,080 Brilliant.