1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,960 And the more I did on the ground, the more I started to 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:07,120 understand, the more I started to figure her out and her unique 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,280 little patterns of things that she does, the less I worried 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,720 about the riding element. If I don't. 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,320 And I actually felt from that like a huge weight had been 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,680 lifted, I would challenge anybody, anybody out there that 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,280 is currently riding their horse to just rest for a month, rest 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,600 for two months, work on all those things. 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,970 And it's for me working and getting really good at the 10 00:00:30,010 --> 00:00:32,290 basics of our chapter. We've got to get out of this 11 00:00:32,290 --> 00:00:35,850 mindset that because we can't ride our horses, it's the end. 12 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:37,890 It's not. It's just the beginning of 13 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:39,210 something else. It's amazing. 14 00:00:39,210 --> 00:00:41,650 And don't waste your time worrying about what other people 15 00:00:41,650 --> 00:00:44,650 are doing or worrying about any pressures of riding. 16 00:00:44,650 --> 00:00:47,690 Enjoy those moments that you have with your horse, because 17 00:00:47,730 --> 00:00:55,290 they're precious. Hello and welcome to the Curious 18 00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:57,770 Equestrian Podcast with me, Anna Louise. 19 00:00:57,770 --> 00:01:02,370 Today in today's episode, we are delving deep into the world of 20 00:01:02,450 --> 00:01:07,250 unwritten equines and the special journey of 1 Exmoor pony 21 00:01:07,250 --> 00:01:10,810 named Cloudy. Our guest today is Claire Artis, 22 00:01:10,850 --> 00:01:14,010 and she's here to share that inspiring journey, her 23 00:01:14,010 --> 00:01:18,290 experiences, the challenges, and the remarkable bond that she's 24 00:01:18,290 --> 00:01:21,700 developed with Cloudy. Her journey takes us on a path 25 00:01:21,700 --> 00:01:25,300 less travelled in the equestrian world where the value of non 26 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:28,020 ridden horses often gets unrecognised. 27 00:01:28,300 --> 00:01:31,500 So Claire, welcome to the podcast and thank you so much 28 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,620 for sharing your journey with Cloudy in an article that you 29 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:36,340 wrote for the Horsemanship Journal. 30 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:40,100 But for those who don't know, tell us a bit more about Cloudy 31 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:42,460 and the back story. Thank you. 32 00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:46,760 Thank you for having me. So to give a little bit of a in 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,640 depth, ish background story, I've had Cloudy now for coming 34 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,440 up for three years. I've had her for. 35 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,880 I've been around horses for over 30 years. 36 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,200 I've worked with them professionally before I had my 37 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:04,840 children and Cloudy came along all the traditional senses that 38 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,800 I thought I knew so much about. She kind of changed the whole 39 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,140 plan on that and when she arrived she arrived as a pony 40 00:02:14,140 --> 00:02:16,300 that was broken to ride under saddle. 41 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:21,100 Totally different story when she actually was physically there. 42 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:23,900 The first time I bought the saddle out to her, she actually 43 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:28,340 bolted and everything in a traditional sense that I was 44 00:02:28,340 --> 00:02:30,780 trying to do with her. Nothing was working. 45 00:02:31,460 --> 00:02:33,740 So that got me thinking a little bit more. 46 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:36,700 Let's go down a slightly different route here and let's 47 00:02:36,700 --> 00:02:39,420 try something more on the psychology based. 48 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,160 So I started researching, looking into as much as I could 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,600 about all psychology, their body language, their way they their 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,000 minds work and stuff like that. And it opened up so many doors 51 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,400 from that point originally when she arrived, I couldn't catch 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,400 her. I couldn't get anywhere near her 53 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,200 ears. She was terrified of anyone 54 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,960 going near her head. So anytime I tried to halter 55 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,840 her, her head would ping up and she'd just be gone. 56 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,940 So over a really long period of time, reading her body language 57 00:03:09,940 --> 00:03:13,580 and starting to understand a little bit more in depth the way 58 00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:18,220 she worked, I was able to slowly get to the point where I could 59 00:03:18,220 --> 00:03:23,300 catch her confidently, I could touch her ears, and very, very 60 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:25,980 slowly started to reintroduce the saddle. 61 00:03:26,260 --> 00:03:30,180 And a lot of foundations that I've never even heard of, I've 62 00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:35,650 never even used, went far beyond the realms of long raining or 63 00:03:35,650 --> 00:03:39,490 lunging, anything like that. Just the real, real basic stuff 64 00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:41,690 that every horse out there should know. 65 00:03:42,290 --> 00:03:44,890 And while I was going through this whole process, which lasted 66 00:03:44,890 --> 00:03:49,170 about a year, I had the real stark realisation I didn't know 67 00:03:49,170 --> 00:03:50,970 as much about horses as I thought I did. 68 00:03:51,730 --> 00:03:54,970 And as this journey sort of unfolded, I'd spent a year, I'd 69 00:03:54,970 --> 00:03:57,290 put everything to one side. I thought, I've got to go right 70 00:03:57,290 --> 00:04:00,810 back to the beginning here. Don't even worry about riding 71 00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:02,450 saddles. Nothing like that. 72 00:04:02,970 --> 00:04:05,770 Build on that relationship. Make sure I can work on that. 73 00:04:05,770 --> 00:04:08,610 I can get her whenever I want to approach her in the field. 74 00:04:08,610 --> 00:04:11,170 I know I'll be able to catch her or she'll catch me. 75 00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:14,690 And just work on those those things and those all those 76 00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:19,490 groundwork basics and really start to understand how she 77 00:04:19,490 --> 00:04:23,090 ticks, what's going to help her, what's going to benefit her 78 00:04:23,090 --> 00:04:25,330 throughout this whole journey and what I'm trying to do. 79 00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:29,720 So Saddle was put away for about a year, and the more I did on 80 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,680 the ground, the more I started to understand. 81 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,040 The more I started to figure her out and her unique little 82 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,280 patterns of things that she does, the less I worried about 83 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,040 the riding element. And I actually thought, this is 84 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,640 really good fun, this is brilliant. 85 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,640 I'm gaining so much from it. I'm getting a fantastic 86 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,800 relationship and bond with this pony. 87 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,800 But we got to a point where I thought, you know what? 88 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,280 After working a really long time with the saddle. 89 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:59,280 Because it was a fear that I wanted to get her over for her 90 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:03,560 benefit as much as mine. One of my passions in life, I 91 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,280 love to take the horse That's not confidence and build on that 92 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:12,520 confidence to make them amazing and powerful and just to see 93 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,440 that unfold before your eyes. But it was a long process. 94 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,560 Probably took me 8 months at least to get her to the point 95 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,400 where she was confident and happy with the saddle and I was 96 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:27,440 able to settle at liberty. One day I decided I felt the 97 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,840 time was right. It wasn't prepared or anything 98 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:34,560 that I climbed aboard, just in a small area just to get on get 99 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,680 off and we just work on that just for getting on and getting 100 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,600 off part on the mountain block, make sure she was confident, 101 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,640 happy to stand and things like that. 102 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,580 But she was, it was great. And slowly we started to peak 103 00:05:47,580 --> 00:05:50,300 out a little bit to slightly bigger areas and we were just 104 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:53,060 walking around and things were going swimmingly. 105 00:05:53,060 --> 00:05:57,220 Well, probably for about almost a year, things were great. 106 00:05:57,740 --> 00:06:01,580 And then one day we had a little set back and we parted company. 107 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:06,780 And that particular day, I popped her back into the stable. 108 00:06:06,780 --> 00:06:09,380 I thought, right, that's fine, OK, it's a little blip, it'll be 109 00:06:09,380 --> 00:06:11,460 fine. The next day I brought her out 110 00:06:11,460 --> 00:06:15,340 into the paddock to go and ride, and she completely shut down. 111 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,400 If anyone doesn't understand, very briefly, she's a very 112 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,240 introverted horse, so she'll hold all her emotions inside and 113 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,360 when she shuts down, it's something I've I've seen at the 114 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,760 beginning of our journey, something she'd do an awful lot 115 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,040 of and it's heartbreaking to see. 116 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,280 So she would just drop her head to the floor, she wouldn't 117 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:40,600 blink, her breathing would change, and you can just see her 118 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,400 into. She's just trying to internally 119 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:47,290 process what is going to happen or try and understand in her own 120 00:06:47,290 --> 00:06:50,330 way how she's going to respond to what's going on. 121 00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:55,570 And it was at that point there, I kind of I popped her back into 122 00:06:55,570 --> 00:06:58,930 the into the field, and I left it for the day and I went home. 123 00:06:58,930 --> 00:07:03,810 I cried for a while. But in my heart of hearts, the 124 00:07:03,850 --> 00:07:06,450 only reason I got cloudy was so that I could go hacking. 125 00:07:06,450 --> 00:07:08,250 I just wanted to have a hacking pony. 126 00:07:08,250 --> 00:07:10,810 I've done all my competing. That was all done in my early 127 00:07:10,810 --> 00:07:13,530 life, but right, just to have a hacking pony. 128 00:07:14,170 --> 00:07:17,410 And it was at that point. Then I thought to myself, I can 129 00:07:17,410 --> 00:07:20,290 either go back and redo everything that I've done and 130 00:07:20,290 --> 00:07:25,410 get her back to the point where we were, or in her best 131 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:29,730 interests, I can say, do you know what, the riding part, it's 132 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:31,890 not important, it doesn't matter. 133 00:07:32,290 --> 00:07:35,370 It was such a big trauma and it was obviously such a big trigger 134 00:07:35,370 --> 00:07:40,010 for her, our partying of companies and I thought I'll 135 00:07:40,010 --> 00:07:42,370 just leave it, I won't ride anymore. 136 00:07:42,370 --> 00:07:45,650 It's in her best interests if I don't. 137 00:07:45,770 --> 00:07:50,610 And I actually felt from that a huge weight had been lifted and 138 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:53,930 I went out into the paddock the next day and we just had fun. 139 00:07:54,090 --> 00:07:58,570 And from then on I just, I absolutely love it, absolutely 140 00:07:58,570 --> 00:08:00,490 love it. The the things that I've done 141 00:08:00,490 --> 00:08:04,010 with her and the things that we've learnt together. 142 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:07,010 I've never done anything like that, and I know that I would 143 00:08:07,010 --> 00:08:09,370 never have done anything like that had I've ridden. 144 00:08:09,890 --> 00:08:12,930 And I'm a very big believer. I think our horses, they're 145 00:08:12,930 --> 00:08:16,970 really smart, they're really clever, and I think they only 146 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:19,890 show us when we're on their backs, a small little glimmer of 147 00:08:19,890 --> 00:08:22,330 that. When you're right there next to 148 00:08:22,330 --> 00:08:26,490 them beside them, that's when you really see what's going on 149 00:08:26,490 --> 00:08:30,370 in that mind and how smart they are and it blows me away. 150 00:08:30,450 --> 00:08:33,860 It really does. And when you say that a weight 151 00:08:33,860 --> 00:08:36,419 lifted off your shoulder in that moment, do you think it's 152 00:08:36,419 --> 00:08:41,220 because there is a pressure in the equestrian industry to ride 153 00:08:41,220 --> 00:08:45,380 your horse 100 percent, 100%? And that's a question I often 154 00:08:46,060 --> 00:08:49,700 query, actually, because obviously a massive part of the 155 00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:51,740 F1 world is made-up from people that ride. 156 00:08:52,380 --> 00:08:55,460 Now do those people ride? Because they we do. 157 00:08:55,460 --> 00:08:58,460 We all love riding. I've ridden for 30 years and I 158 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:01,520 loved it. But do we ride because that's 159 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,000 what society dictates we should be doing? 160 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Or are we riding generally because that's what we want to 161 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,440 do? And I think there is. 162 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,680 There's a massive pressure on those and it can come from any 163 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:15,960 walk of life. I mean, for example, my mum's 164 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,880 70, she'll be 70 in February, bless her heart. 165 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,520 She hasn't ridden for a number of years because she lost her 166 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,380 confidence. I've got Golden, Oldie and my 167 00:09:26,380 --> 00:09:30,140 old boy sadly passed when he was 34, so obviously there comes a 168 00:09:30,140 --> 00:09:32,860 point in their life where they can't be ridden anymore. 169 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:36,300 We've got Suki, she's 35, can't be ridden. 170 00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:38,620 I've got a youngster who's too young. 171 00:09:38,980 --> 00:09:43,940 Well he's 4, but in my opinion he's too young and we still 172 00:09:43,940 --> 00:09:45,900 don't know how his journey is going to go. 173 00:09:46,580 --> 00:09:48,380 I don't. I don't care if he's not riding 174 00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:51,140 pony, that's fine. That's that will be for him to 175 00:09:51,140 --> 00:09:56,770 choose and him to decide. There is so much pressure on us, 176 00:09:56,770 --> 00:10:00,690 I think and I remember last summer, last winter, seeing 177 00:10:00,690 --> 00:10:04,250 loads of comments of posts of people putting on social media 178 00:10:04,730 --> 00:10:07,210 how bad they felt because they couldn't ride their horse. 179 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:10,770 There's so many other things that you can do, and there's so 180 00:10:10,770 --> 00:10:15,090 many things that you can do in small spaces that don't involve 181 00:10:15,090 --> 00:10:18,780 the riding part. But for me, my relationship with 182 00:10:18,780 --> 00:10:22,020 her has grown in ways that I never thought possible. 183 00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:24,340 Because I'm on the ground right there next to her. 184 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:29,260 And Claire, I so connected to your story when I was reading 185 00:10:29,260 --> 00:10:32,260 about you and Cloudy because, and I don't know how many people 186 00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:37,940 have been affected by this, but I bought a mare in 2019 and she 187 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:41,780 was supposed to be backed, ready to go, no vices. 188 00:10:42,340 --> 00:10:45,860 And over she came from Ireland and I was absolutely thrilled 189 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:46,980 when she came. Very. 190 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,240 Carefully and patiently off the back of a juggernaut, Lorraine. 191 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,280 She'd travelled really well. She was lovely in the field. 192 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,880 She was great on the ground. She wasn't at all vicious. 193 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,320 We then my great friend Tarly, who's been riding and training 194 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,240 horses since before she could walk, she said, oh, and I'll get 195 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,360 on her for you and just see how she goes. 196 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,480 We'll just see what she's like, you know, she's had a long 197 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,680 journey, so we'd given her a few weeks on. 198 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,240 Tarly gets Tarly breaks in stallions. 199 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,560 She trains, you know, horses that have had difficult pasts. 200 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,840 She was on for all of 5 minutes and she was thrown through the 201 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,120 air and Tarly hadn't fallen off for 20 years and Tarly said, 202 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,600 Anna, this horse hasn't been backed and the look of horror on 203 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,520 my face. We started from scratch, but it 204 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,920 appeared just as with cloudy, there was a lot of trauma there. 205 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,480 She didn't like a head touch, she didn't know what a treat 206 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,400 was. I'd hold out my hand, she'd 207 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,840 sniff it and didn't know what it was because no one had ever 208 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,080 given her a treat. She was scared. 209 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,480 She was scared of wits. She was scared of torts, stable 210 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,080 tools. So we had to start like you and 211 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,760 cloudy right from the beginning, to which we did get to the stage 212 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,640 where we could ride Winnie, but now she started bronking. 213 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,480 So we have a whole nother journey that has come up through 214 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,400 the backing process that now she's bronking despite having 215 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,480 had her back checked, teeth checked and vets checked. 216 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,440 So we're now wondering whether that is her saying she doesn't 217 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,270 want to be ridden. That it's linked to previous 218 00:12:14,270 --> 00:12:16,750 trauma. And we're now, like you say sort 219 00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:19,670 of on a journey to investigate what Winnie's happy doing. 220 00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:22,190 Whether she wants to be ridden. Whether this is a trauma she can 221 00:12:22,190 --> 00:12:24,990 overcome. Or whether actually Winnie would 222 00:12:24,990 --> 00:12:29,350 just prefer to be a very large field ornament and another pet 223 00:12:29,510 --> 00:12:32,350 that's a member of the family. Which we're also really happy to 224 00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:35,030 do. Because being on the ground, 225 00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:38,710 like you say at liberty in the field or lunging has been hugely 226 00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:40,590 rewarding and something that I've. 227 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,400 So looked forward to to do that groundwork and we have a bond 228 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,200 like no other. You know, she'll follow me 229 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,160 totally unattached wherever I go, whether I'm walking or 230 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,480 jogging, she will run alongside me, encounter alongside me and I 231 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,560 Throughout my entire life of riding, I've never had a bond 232 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,840 like it. And yet people passing by will 233 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,240 look over the fence and say when are you going to ride that 234 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,560 horse? Have you ridden that horse yet? 235 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,740 And. It's that constant layer, isn't 236 00:13:09,740 --> 00:13:13,220 it, That sort of lands on your shoulder that you're doing some. 237 00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:15,420 You're not doing something with your horse that you're supposed 238 00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:17,380 to be doing. Yeah, Yeah, there is. 239 00:13:17,380 --> 00:13:20,100 Sadly, there is, Yeah. And I speak to quite a few 240 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:23,420 people that are on livery yards and they've got that outside 241 00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:25,620 pressure as well of when are you going to ride. 242 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,300 And it is. It's for me, when I drew that 243 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:34,100 line and I decided that was it, I'm not going to ride and that 244 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:38,300 element had completely gone. For me personally, it was, I 245 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:43,300 think so many see that individually as a failure or 246 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:46,860 it's the end of a journey, it's the end of lorry and that's it. 247 00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:49,260 And it's not. It's just a new chapter. 248 00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:53,820 It's just a new way to be with horses and it is something that 249 00:13:53,820 --> 00:13:56,620 needs to be spoken about. It needs to be put out there 250 00:13:56,620 --> 00:14:01,190 more because like I say at some point or another sadly it is 251 00:14:01,190 --> 00:14:05,470 going to affect us at some point and I'm all for the field 252 00:14:05,470 --> 00:14:08,990 ornament truly. I am happy horse out there 253 00:14:08,990 --> 00:14:13,950 enjoying life but there can be and there is so much more. 254 00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:16,830 One of my most incredible moments that I've had with 255 00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:20,110 horses, I was out walking with cloudy one afternoon and my mum 256 00:14:20,110 --> 00:14:22,790 was with me. She often comes around, sort of 257 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:25,870 just keeps me company with cloudy and we are walking along 258 00:14:25,870 --> 00:14:29,640 the bottom of the farmers fields and the grass was knee deep. 259 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,360 I'm away from any roads in the middle of nowhere and the 260 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,680 stables are probably about a 5 minute, 10 minute walk away and 261 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,040 I've just had this gut feeling. I just thought just going to 262 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,360 unclick the rope, let's just see what happens here. 263 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,320 So I unclicked the rope and she stayed and ate the grass for a 264 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,040 moment or two and I just carried on walking and I just turned 265 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,920 over my right shoulder. I just went, you come in then. 266 00:14:54,610 --> 00:14:57,810 And she just came right with me and she did not leave my side. 267 00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:01,530 And we were knee deep in grass. We had these masses of big, wide 268 00:15:01,530 --> 00:15:04,850 open spaces around us. And she just, she was there, 269 00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:09,170 right there with me. And I know that if I hadn't have 270 00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:12,610 built up everything that I'd built up on the ground, there 271 00:15:12,610 --> 00:15:15,890 was no way that any of. I mean, if I'd have a horse that 272 00:15:15,890 --> 00:15:18,810 I'd have had for 30 years, if I'd have unclipped him, he'd 273 00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:21,900 have been gone. But building that up from the 274 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:25,580 ground and doing everything and working on that relationship 275 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:29,140 without even worrying about setting foot on their back, 276 00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:32,140 putting a foot in a stirrup, nothing like that. 277 00:15:32,460 --> 00:15:35,700 It just the possibilities are endless. 278 00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:40,300 And every day, every moment I get these, wow, did that 279 00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:43,060 actually just happen? And it's not happened because 280 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:44,860 I'm riding, it's happened because I'm right there. 281 00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:48,780 And if you think of the very small element that riding 282 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:52,930 actually makes up anyway, there's so much more to the 283 00:15:52,930 --> 00:15:58,810 horse than just riding. And Claire, what do you think? 284 00:15:58,970 --> 00:16:02,090 Judging by how your understanding of Cloudy's 285 00:16:02,090 --> 00:16:05,090 developed, what do you think happened to her in her previous 286 00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:08,010 life? I think she was probably backed 287 00:16:08,010 --> 00:16:13,530 too early, and I also think it was rushed and thresholds 288 00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:15,290 ignored. Again, probably comes down to 289 00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:18,140 the fact that people don't. A lot of people. 290 00:16:18,140 --> 00:16:22,460 I mean, I came from a very traditional world and we're not 291 00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:26,940 taught to listen to the horse. We're taught that the horse is 292 00:16:26,940 --> 00:16:28,420 there to do what we want it to do. 293 00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:32,580 And I personally, where I'm at now, I don't agree with 294 00:16:32,580 --> 00:16:34,780 leadership. I don't believe that I want to 295 00:16:34,780 --> 00:16:38,060 be the boss. I believe I want a relationship 296 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:41,690 on equal terms, and that works two ways, and I'll give you a 297 00:16:41,690 --> 00:16:43,570 lot. In the early days, when I first 298 00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:46,690 had cloudy, we had to walk across the grass area to get to 299 00:16:46,690 --> 00:16:50,050 the training paddock, and she'd get halfway and she'd just plant 300 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:53,130 her feet and stop. Now, in a traditional sense, we 301 00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:55,610 probably would have pulled, pushed, done everything we 302 00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:58,890 possibly could think of to get that horse to go forward. 303 00:16:59,210 --> 00:17:03,770 What did I do? I let her eat grass, so there 304 00:17:03,770 --> 00:17:06,569 she stood, eating the grass. I'd eat, we'd eat the grass for 305 00:17:06,569 --> 00:17:09,569 a few moments, then we'd walk forward another few steps. 306 00:17:09,609 --> 00:17:12,770 We'd eat a bit more grass and then we'd walk forward a few 307 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:14,450 more steps. We'd eat a bit more grass. 308 00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:17,930 And then, lo and behold, we're at the training paddock game. 309 00:17:18,770 --> 00:17:21,890 We've worked together, so I saw her needs. 310 00:17:22,450 --> 00:17:25,050 We'll eat grass, OK, We'll eat the grass and then we'll move 311 00:17:25,050 --> 00:17:28,930 forward a little bit. And that, to me, is working in 312 00:17:28,930 --> 00:17:32,130 two ways. And whatever I do with my horses 313 00:17:32,130 --> 00:17:35,410 now, wherever I am, whatever I want to do, whatever I'd like to 314 00:17:35,410 --> 00:17:37,730 achieve, what's in it for my horse. 315 00:17:38,290 --> 00:17:41,920 What can I do in whatever it is that I'm trying? 316 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,160 What can I do to make this better for them? 317 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,880 How can I make this experience something that they're going to 318 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,600 want to remember in a good way and want to do again? 319 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,200 And they're going to be waiting there at the field gate for me 320 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,720 tomorrow because I've thought, how can I make this better for 321 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,680 them? What other sort of trust 322 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,200 techniques have you used, Claire? 323 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,120 I mean, you sound like you've just thought about your horse as 324 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,560 you've gone along, but what have you put in place to sort of show 325 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,360 cloudy that actually not all humans are the same and that 326 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,040 you're worth trusting? I listened. 327 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,280 I listened. So by going into the more 328 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:29,120 psychology side of horsemanship, it taught me when to step back. 329 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:32,620 So watching all those little changes in her body language, 330 00:18:32,620 --> 00:18:36,140 watching where her ears were, watching if there's any tension 331 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:40,300 in her nose, and just slowing everything down South. 332 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,380 In my mind, I thought I was going slow, but that wasn't slow 333 00:18:44,380 --> 00:18:46,820 enough to slow it down even more. 334 00:18:47,220 --> 00:18:49,980 And there were times where she'd just turn her bum on me and go 335 00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:52,980 and plant her head in the corner of the stable and, OK, that's 336 00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:56,500 fine, we'll just wait. And just by giving her that 337 00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:01,170 moment just to step back, give her that space, she'd turn 338 00:19:01,170 --> 00:19:03,050 around and go, oh, OK then what's going on? 339 00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:05,890 What we doing now? Just slowing everything down. 340 00:19:05,890 --> 00:19:08,170 And I think for cloudy especially, dignity was a 341 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:10,570 massive and still is a massive thing to her. 342 00:19:11,010 --> 00:19:13,050 So it's watching out for the little things. 343 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:15,930 Like if I'm going round one side and she's tipping her nose to 344 00:19:15,930 --> 00:19:18,050 block me, I'll just wait a minute. 345 00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:22,770 It's about not saying and and telling the horse we're doing 346 00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:25,860 this. We ask, do you mind? 347 00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:29,020 And in my head I'm always thinking, is it OK if I do this? 348 00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:30,340 Do you mind? It's all good. 349 00:19:30,420 --> 00:19:31,860 OK, we're fine. Then we'll carry on. 350 00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:35,820 Claire, I was going to ask you, what techniques did you use? 351 00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:39,020 You used time, you used listening. 352 00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:42,940 What other techniques did you use to gain her trust with her 353 00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:45,100 problem ears that she didn't want you touching? 354 00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:48,460 And with things like allowing you into her space to deal with 355 00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:50,900 things like thorns and laminitis? 356 00:19:51,980 --> 00:19:56,680 Yeah, I mean, originally with with arrears there was a lot of, 357 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,480 they say approach and retreat. I used retreat and approach. 358 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:05,920 So it was a very slow process of just trying to see if I could 359 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,840 just touch her ear and then I'd move my hand away. 360 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,400 But all the time, just watching for any little signs, anything, 361 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,320 little tiny shifts of weight. If she'd be trying to shift her 362 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,520 weight and lean back, then I'd obviously retreat. 363 00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:20,180 Just watching for little tiny things like that. 364 00:20:20,180 --> 00:20:22,220 I mean the thorn that was a whole nother level because I 365 00:20:22,220 --> 00:20:26,940 actually had to use a stick and it's right a distance away to 366 00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:29,940 try and use the stick to just rub her with the stick near 367 00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:32,460 where the thorn was. And it took me rubbing her with 368 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:36,900 this stick before I was able to finally get my hand in there and 369 00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:43,020 just gently pull this thorn out. So it it's just constantly just 370 00:20:43,020 --> 00:20:47,620 watching for any tiny little and you become almost, I want to say 371 00:20:47,620 --> 00:20:50,260 hyper aware of it. It's not because for me now it's 372 00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:52,940 everyday life and I just assume that everyone else out there in 373 00:20:52,940 --> 00:20:54,860 the world is doing what I'm doing and they're not. 374 00:20:55,660 --> 00:21:01,940 So it's just a really very gradual slow, just watching for 375 00:21:01,940 --> 00:21:04,340 any tiny little signs. I mean at the moment she's 376 00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:06,620 really suffering because she's been on box rest for quite a 377 00:21:06,620 --> 00:21:08,900 while. So she's suffering with getting 378 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:12,620 that movement in her back end and she's very sore. 379 00:21:12,620 --> 00:21:16,600 Her front feet were very sore and her way of telling me that 380 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,680 she's sore, other than obviously I can physically see it when I'm 381 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,600 trying to go to the areas she's trying to bite me. 382 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,200 Now obviously, in the normal sense, we'd see that as maybe 383 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,480 being a bit rude, a bit disrespectful, but for me, I 384 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,800 understand that she's telling me she's hurting, it's sore. 385 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,480 But at the same time, there's still things that I have to do 386 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,880 for everyday care just to make sure she's recovering. 387 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,410 So by watching and just slowly retreating and just taking my 388 00:21:45,410 --> 00:21:49,330 time and something as well, I think we're often taught in the 389 00:21:49,330 --> 00:21:53,010 more traditional sense is when our horses get angry, it 390 00:21:53,010 --> 00:21:56,210 escalates because when they get frustrated, we get frustrated. 391 00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:57,690 When they get angry, we get angry. 392 00:21:58,770 --> 00:22:03,290 And it's building, breaking down those walls so that when they 393 00:22:03,290 --> 00:22:07,090 get frustrated or when something bothers them, it doesn't bother 394 00:22:07,090 --> 00:22:09,610 us. So we learn then to control our 395 00:22:09,610 --> 00:22:13,930 own emotions, and, as stupid as it sounds, remember to breathe. 396 00:22:14,530 --> 00:22:17,050 Claire and you've been telling us throughout the episode of all 397 00:22:17,050 --> 00:22:20,250 these different exciting things that we can do with our unridden 398 00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:22,090 horse. Can you list off some of the 399 00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:24,770 things for inspiration, for those listening, who think 400 00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:27,650 actually I might like to try something different? 401 00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:29,690 Yeah. I mean, we all know that the 402 00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:33,010 normal realms of things, like we could go out for a walk, we can 403 00:22:33,050 --> 00:22:37,610 play in the arena, we can do some liberty things, but how can 404 00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:41,000 we advance on things like that? So when I say we could go out 405 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,160 for a walk, for example, Cloudy and I last year we were walking 406 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,160 out across the farmers fields. We have permission walking out 407 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,440 across the farmers fields and we were going from field to field 408 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,800 jumping ditches. Well, I think we were jumping 409 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,240 ditches waiting. I was clambering down and then 410 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,760 asking her across. So we were jumping ditches. 411 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:05,560 And the I think for me, when I'm going for a walk especially, 412 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,820 it's quite easy to kind of switch off almost and we can 413 00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:12,260 maybe walk ahead of our horse and the horse just kind of plod 414 00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:15,780 along behind, completely disengaged to what we're doing 415 00:23:15,780 --> 00:23:19,100 and not really connected to us. So for me, it's making sure that 416 00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:22,340 I'm walking right there with her like I would have if I went for 417 00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:24,700 a walk with a friend. I wouldn't leave my friend 418 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:26,860 trailing behind. So I'm right there next to her, 419 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:32,340 just soaking up the atmosphere so we might just stop taking our 420 00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:36,020 surroundings and what's going on and just having a breather and 421 00:23:36,020 --> 00:23:38,820 making sure also that I've got a nice long rope. 422 00:23:38,820 --> 00:23:42,900 So if it's safe to do so, she can roam a little bit, she can 423 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,500 forage for things that she might not be able to find in the 424 00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:47,740 field. So that's a great. 425 00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:49,900 That's one of my favorite things to do actually going out for a 426 00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:54,540 walk but from a in the arena kind of element in a training 427 00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:58,380 paddock, I like to very much use play. 428 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,760 So anything that I can tap into we've got like a giant Jim ball. 429 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,640 We might get that out. She can push it with her nose. 430 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,680 She can pick it with her legs. Also works really well with the 431 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,760 baby. He's four. 432 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,400 He loves the giant ball. Gets them used to things going 433 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,760 around them. You can bounce it, it gets them 434 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,680 used to things either side of them. 435 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,160 You can throw it over the top of them and things like that. 436 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,950 And from a I don't like to use the terminology desensitise. 437 00:24:25,950 --> 00:24:28,750 I prefer to build confidence. So if you think of something 438 00:24:28,750 --> 00:24:32,470 your horse might be most fearful of, you can then take that into 439 00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:35,550 the training paddock and use different things to try and help 440 00:24:35,550 --> 00:24:39,190 them get over those fears. Like Claudie wasn't very good 441 00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:41,830 with anything that flapped anything that moved. 442 00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:44,750 So my first well, let's lay down some tarpaulin. 443 00:24:45,230 --> 00:24:48,510 So we play walking across the tarpaulin and then can she stand 444 00:24:48,510 --> 00:24:51,450 on the tarpaulin? Can she go backwards on the tar 445 00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:53,210 pulling? Can we put a jump on the tar 446 00:24:53,250 --> 00:24:56,650 pulling so she can jump over it? So I think it's for me, it's 447 00:24:56,650 --> 00:25:00,450 taking various different obstacles, anything from cones, 448 00:25:00,850 --> 00:25:05,090 tyres, pallets that I use as pedestals, just reinforced with 449 00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:07,210 a bit of MDFS and carpet over the top. 450 00:25:07,210 --> 00:25:11,570 So that's not slippery. Poles do lots of different pole 451 00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:15,490 work barrels, which I've got. My barrels are just recycled 452 00:25:15,490 --> 00:25:18,650 water baths. We can go sideways over the 453 00:25:18,650 --> 00:25:21,880 barrels. We could open the barrels up and 454 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,840 we could squeeze between the barrels. 455 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,640 We could put the barrels one on top of the other and we could 456 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,560 knock them over. So I think it's and once you 457 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:35,080 start on that little journey of different obstacles, you think 458 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,800 of different things that you can do with each of those obstacles. 459 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,560 And it is, it's mind blowing what you can do with one pole. 460 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,360 It's being imaginative. Oh, it is. 461 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,800 And it just, it gets really taps into your creative juices. 462 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,330 I mean, I've got my paddock is never free of stuff, There's 463 00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:53,730 always stuff in it, and whenever I'm going out there I'm always 464 00:25:53,730 --> 00:25:56,010 thinking of something that I want to focus on something in 465 00:25:56,010 --> 00:25:57,570 particular I want to do that day. 466 00:25:57,930 --> 00:26:01,730 I've also got a backup plan in case that doesn't work, or the 467 00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:03,610 horse for whatever it isn't in the mood to do. 468 00:26:03,610 --> 00:26:06,450 Whatever I'm trying to achieve that day that I've got something 469 00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:10,450 else there, but it's having that little goal to work towards. 470 00:26:10,930 --> 00:26:13,770 Clare. Your decision to transition 471 00:26:13,770 --> 00:26:18,490 cloudy from a ridden horse to an unridden horse is so interesting 472 00:26:18,490 --> 00:26:21,690 and I think a journey that many people haven't been on but maybe 473 00:26:21,690 --> 00:26:23,850 want to consider. What would you say to those who 474 00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:28,530 are thinking possibly about trying to move into the world of 475 00:26:28,530 --> 00:26:31,330 unridden horses and try different activities but might 476 00:26:31,330 --> 00:26:34,330 still feel that pressure that they need to be riding? 477 00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:38,970 Yeah, it is definitely a tough one to try and overcome I must 478 00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:40,610 admit. I mean what helped massively 479 00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:43,090 from my point of view is I knew that it was in the best 480 00:26:43,090 --> 00:26:48,330 interests of cloudy, so putting my own thoughts needs to one 481 00:26:48,330 --> 00:26:50,250 side. But there is unfortunately there 482 00:26:50,250 --> 00:26:53,810 is still that big pressure around us to ride because I 483 00:26:53,810 --> 00:26:57,130 think obviously that's primarily the main focus of why people get 484 00:26:57,130 --> 00:27:00,410 a horse. But for me, I think it's just as 485 00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:03,010 I've said. I think before it's elaborating 486 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:07,240 more on that journey and making that transition, I would 487 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,360 challenge anybody, anybody out there that is currently riding 488 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:15,400 their horse to just rest for a month, rest for two months, work 489 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,840 on all those things and it for me it's working and getting 490 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,280 really good at the basic stuff. There's so many horses out 491 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,120 there, for example, that struggle to even stand still. 492 00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:27,610 So it's working on those little things. 493 00:27:27,610 --> 00:27:30,810 And when you start working on those things, it does amazing 494 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:33,410 things for your connection with your horse, which will help 495 00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:35,130 massively when you're in the saddle anyway. 496 00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:38,370 So for me, it's getting really good at those basic things. 497 00:27:38,370 --> 00:27:41,130 So even if you don't think, break it down into smaller 498 00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:44,450 pieces, if you don't think I'm never going to ride again, think 499 00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:45,890 of it. OK, well, let's just try it. 500 00:27:45,890 --> 00:27:47,970 Let's try it for a month. Let's try it for a couple of 501 00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:50,170 months. See what happens to your 502 00:27:50,170 --> 00:27:52,890 relationship with your horse. Because I'm you will never 503 00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:54,610 regret it. It will be a decision that you 504 00:27:54,610 --> 00:27:58,250 will never regret. And personally, every day now, 505 00:27:58,250 --> 00:28:01,290 there is not one single element of riding that I miss. 506 00:28:01,570 --> 00:28:04,970 I'm having far too much fun to even worry about that. 507 00:28:04,970 --> 00:28:07,770 And we've got a herd of five. None of them are ridden. 508 00:28:08,130 --> 00:28:11,090 We are loving life. I go out to my paddock, I do my 509 00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:14,370 training bits, we go out for walks, we forage. 510 00:28:14,650 --> 00:28:17,490 I feel completely free of pressure. 511 00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:21,050 I'm relaxed to enjoy my pony because, let's face it, the 512 00:28:21,050 --> 00:28:23,850 majority of us are in it for recreational purposes. 513 00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:27,910 Today's world, we're all rushed. We've got things that we've got 514 00:28:27,910 --> 00:28:30,190 to go out and do. Our moments with. 515 00:28:30,190 --> 00:28:33,670 Our horses are so, so precious. Don't waste your time worrying 516 00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:35,990 about what other people are doing or worrying about any 517 00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:39,350 pressures of riding. Enjoy those moments that you 518 00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:41,510 have with your horse, because they're precious. 519 00:28:41,910 --> 00:28:45,350 And what do you do when I know this happens to you when I have 520 00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:47,030 people stick their head over the fence? 521 00:28:47,030 --> 00:28:49,590 They're not even horsey. They are just villagers. 522 00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:52,190 That want to say, when are you riding? 523 00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:53,870 When are you going to get on that horse? 524 00:28:53,870 --> 00:28:55,750 Why are you not riding that horse? 525 00:28:55,950 --> 00:29:00,030 For me, I'm constantly trying to explain that these horses are 526 00:29:00,030 --> 00:29:02,430 either on a brake or we're trying something different or 527 00:29:02,430 --> 00:29:05,110 we're doing groundwork. What do you say to those people, 528 00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:08,510 whether it's friends, family, equestrians or just nosy 529 00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:12,230 villagers that stick their heads over and and try and criticise 530 00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:15,150 what you're doing? It is a real, real struggle and 531 00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:17,830 I'll be brutally honest it's one even to this day that I do 532 00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:21,350 struggle with And we've got there's a lot in the village 533 00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:23,710 where I keep crowding. There's a lot of horses and I've 534 00:29:23,710 --> 00:29:26,990 not quite often we'll go venture down our lane and we'll just, 535 00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:28,310 we've got a lovely patch of grass. 536 00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:30,910 We'll just stand and let the horses eat some grass and you 537 00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:34,990 might get the one or two passers by on their horses riding and 538 00:29:35,030 --> 00:29:37,630 and you can see them looking. And the odd ones kind of stopped 539 00:29:37,630 --> 00:29:41,230 and had a chat and it's just something that's just unheard of 540 00:29:41,270 --> 00:29:43,790 in a whole village that of horses. 541 00:29:44,030 --> 00:29:47,510 I've never seen anyone hand graze their horses and it is 542 00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:52,030 because you almost feel embarrassed in a way to say, Oh 543 00:29:52,150 --> 00:29:55,870 well, I'm not riding and you do almost have to justify that fact 544 00:29:55,910 --> 00:29:58,750 of why you're not riding. But for me, I've come to the 545 00:29:58,750 --> 00:30:03,190 vast realisation that it's my journey, this is for me, this is 546 00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:07,070 what I'm doing and I'm loving what I'm doing and I'm enjoying 547 00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:09,990 what I'm doing. If you want to ride, that's 548 00:30:09,990 --> 00:30:12,550 obviously completely, entirely up to you. 549 00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:16,910 But for me, in this moment and for what my horse needs, this is 550 00:30:16,910 --> 00:30:18,590 what I'm doing. And for me, I think once you 551 00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:22,150 start doing the things you're doing for the horse, everybody 552 00:30:22,150 --> 00:30:25,310 else's opinions and assumption of what you're doing, they don't 553 00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:27,310 matter so much. But it is to. 554 00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:31,710 It's something that needs to be more accessible. 555 00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:35,870 We don't need to with the questions need to feel bad or 556 00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:38,350 that we need to justify the reasons of why we're not riding. 557 00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:39,870 But it is. It is something I do still 558 00:30:39,870 --> 00:30:43,790 struggle with, sadly. Through your journey with 559 00:30:43,790 --> 00:30:46,950 Cloudy, what have you learnt about the value of non ridden 560 00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:56,310 horses in horsemanship? Oh yeah, there is so much and I 561 00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:59,870 think when you stopped riding. So when you make that decision 562 00:30:59,870 --> 00:31:02,550 to stop riding, you start looking at every single other 563 00:31:02,550 --> 00:31:06,230 aspect of how you can enhance your horse's life, how can you 564 00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:10,750 keep making it better? And that it, for me at the 565 00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:14,960 moment, is all that matters. Nothing else matters but trying 566 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320 to create the best environment that I can for her with what 567 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,840 facilities and what I've got available to me. 568 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,880 And I think when we're so focused on the riding part, it's 569 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,160 very easy to forget those parts because we all have limited 570 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,480 time. We only have a certain to get on 571 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,720 and we must ride this horse. When you take that out of the 572 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,800 equation, think about all that more free time that you have to 573 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,580 put into other areas of sort of looking at the way that you're 574 00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:47,540 doing your basic things, looking at the way your horse is living 575 00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:50,740 that might otherwise be taken up and focused with things like 576 00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:53,740 going riding. It's interesting, isn't it? 577 00:31:53,740 --> 00:31:57,380 Because often we all start all of our journeys with horses 578 00:31:57,380 --> 00:32:00,020 initially, whether it's as children, teenagers or adults. 579 00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:03,380 Usually begins in the arena, doesn't it? 580 00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:05,900 At a riding school or riding a friend's horse. 581 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:09,170 So it always begins with riding. Do you think we almost need to 582 00:32:09,170 --> 00:32:11,570 go back? Or riding schools maybe need to 583 00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:15,450 look at kind of what they can offer and include groundwork in 584 00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:18,410 those lessons so that we appreciate that just as much as 585 00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:22,850 the written element massively. Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. 586 00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:27,290 And if even if not thinking from the horses perspective, from our 587 00:32:27,290 --> 00:32:31,010 perspective as well, what we're teaching in riding schools at 588 00:32:31,010 --> 00:32:34,570 the moment, because they are so riding focused, we're not 589 00:32:34,570 --> 00:32:38,810 teaching people how to be safe. So we've lost a massive safety 590 00:32:38,810 --> 00:32:41,370 element of what we're doing because we don't know how to 591 00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:45,130 read the horse, we don't know how to look out for signals of 592 00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:47,730 anxiety, stress. We're not taught that because 593 00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:49,210 we're taught just to get on and ride. 594 00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:53,730 We're missing a massive valuable link because we're not focusing 595 00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:55,770 on the groundwork and getting those skills. 596 00:32:56,090 --> 00:32:59,890 And also I think because there's so much focus on the riding 597 00:32:59,890 --> 00:33:03,730 part, our young horses are missing out on those that 598 00:33:04,330 --> 00:33:08,610 valuable time because there is so much more to ground work than 599 00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:11,610 lunging and long raining. I very rarely do. 600 00:33:12,170 --> 00:33:15,130 It's so much bigger than that and it's getting into the horses 601 00:33:15,130 --> 00:33:18,810 mind and we're so focused on getting our horses moving that 602 00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:21,370 we forget the mind element and you can't work on the mind 603 00:33:21,370 --> 00:33:22,970 element if you're not working on the ground. 604 00:33:24,250 --> 00:33:26,170 That's so interesting. And also, I love Claire, that 605 00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:29,090 you go walking in hand with your mum, who's 70. 606 00:33:29,330 --> 00:33:33,170 I go walking in hand with my Winnie, my mare and my mum, and 607 00:33:33,170 --> 00:33:35,850 we go foraging the hedgerows and we walk around the country 608 00:33:35,850 --> 00:33:38,130 lanes. And it's so interesting, isn't 609 00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:40,650 it, watching people's reaction as you come round the corner, 610 00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:42,330 probably. People expect you to be walking 611 00:33:42,330 --> 00:33:46,050 a dog and then they're startled to see a horse coming towards 612 00:33:46,050 --> 00:33:48,570 them, aren't they? And often we're stopped for 613 00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:50,970 people to say, you know, people stop us and say. 614 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,200 Well, why are you walking that horse? 615 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,880 You know, is it injured? No, we're we're walking because 616 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,080 we love it and it's time off for Winnie. 617 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,200 And she doesn't have to be thinking she's in work mode and 618 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,600 carrying us on on her back. So it's trying to change 619 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,199 people's perspectives. Even those that are out walking, 620 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,760 their dogs are walking around the corners who are sort of 621 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,320 confused by what they see. It's so important to bring 622 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,760 topics like this to life because it is definitely, and I hear 623 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,120 about it so many times. I've got a friend of mine who 624 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,400 sadly can't ride because she's injured, and that's a long and 625 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,760 progressive thing for her, but she can't ride. 626 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,120 She hung up her riding hat and she felt awful. 627 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,480 And I said don't think of it as a bad thing, just think it's 628 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,440 another step to your journey. It's another you're expanding on 629 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,840 things that you've already done and you're just going to keep on 630 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,480 making them better. It's a new chapter. 631 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,560 We've got to get out of this mindset that because we can't 632 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,679 ride our horses, it's the end. It's not. 633 00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:49,469 It's just the beginning of something else that's amazing. 634 00:34:49,469 --> 00:34:52,989 And the things I've achieved with cloudy, I've never achieved 635 00:34:52,989 --> 00:34:55,989 with any horse before because I've always focused on the 636 00:34:55,989 --> 00:34:58,070 riding path. Now I've got all the time in the 637 00:34:58,070 --> 00:35:00,590 world to go sideways over barrels. 638 00:35:00,830 --> 00:35:03,390 Can she go on the pedestal? Can we go on the pedestal with 1 639 00:35:03,390 --> 00:35:04,670 foot? Can we go on the pedestal with 640 00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:06,470 two feet? Can we turn around on the 641 00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:08,870 pedestal? But there's so many more 642 00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:11,870 elements to things that that we can do and we can achieve. 643 00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:16,090 And that anyone can transition because it sounds like yourself. 644 00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:18,090 You know, you competed from a young age. 645 00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:21,690 I was that child who was counting down the days to the 646 00:35:21,690 --> 00:35:24,690 next riding lesson and completely riding obsessed. 647 00:35:24,930 --> 00:35:28,570 And I've written all my life, and yet still I am enjoying the 648 00:35:28,570 --> 00:35:32,890 groundwork and the liberty and The Walking just as much as life 649 00:35:32,890 --> 00:35:34,730 in the saddle. Yeah, absolutely. 650 00:35:34,890 --> 00:35:38,450 Absolutely. And I think for me it was almost 651 00:35:38,490 --> 00:35:42,330 a pressure to ride. So for me, once that was gone 652 00:35:42,770 --> 00:35:47,810 and I had all that extra time, it was, yeah, amazing, amazing 653 00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:49,770 thing. And before you go, Clay, you've 654 00:35:49,770 --> 00:35:52,210 described your relationship with Cloudy as magical. 655 00:35:52,210 --> 00:35:56,130 Can you take us to a magical moment for you that summarises 656 00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:58,290 that or that harnesses that feeling that when you're 657 00:35:58,290 --> 00:36:02,050 together, it's to be honest, it's the everyday things that 658 00:36:02,050 --> 00:36:05,890 people don't see. It's the everyday stuff and it 659 00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:08,010 still blows my mind. I mean, I've mentioned, touched 660 00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:09,530 on, she's quite poorly at the moment. 661 00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:12,630 She's sadly been on box rest for a little while and it's 662 00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:14,710 something as silly as I can take you to. 663 00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:18,190 Yesterday I was in the stable, she was just outside her stable 664 00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:21,790 with her bottom to me and I needed her back into her stable. 665 00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:28,470 I can stand at her back wall and just go and she'll back up to 666 00:36:28,510 --> 00:36:30,390 come to me. So it's little things like that. 667 00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:34,790 I can use the most simplest of gestures and this is every day. 668 00:36:35,110 --> 00:36:38,430 If I need her to just relocate slightly, I can just stand next 669 00:36:38,430 --> 00:36:40,870 to her and just tip my head slightly and just say just go 670 00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:44,490 that way a little bit, just with the most tiniest little movement 671 00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:46,970 and gesture. And she'll she'll carry it and 672 00:36:46,970 --> 00:36:49,730 she'll do it for me. So every day is a magical day. 673 00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:52,650 I'm not going to lie, and I'm just, I get blown away by the 674 00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:56,690 things that unfold every day, even when when you're locked 675 00:36:56,690 --> 00:37:00,490 down as it has been now. And I can honestly say she has 676 00:37:00,490 --> 00:37:04,700 just been incredible throughout. And it's interesting, isn't it? 677 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:08,180 Because we love our dogs and we spend every minute with our dogs 678 00:37:08,180 --> 00:37:10,860 that live in houses. But there's something about 679 00:37:10,860 --> 00:37:15,100 working with a horse, asking your horse to do something that 680 00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:18,060 has a whole nother feeling. Because they are such huge 681 00:37:18,060 --> 00:37:20,900 beasts, aren't they? They don't have to listen to us. 682 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:22,660 They they could do whatever they wanted. 683 00:37:22,660 --> 00:37:26,180 But they choose, like you say, to listen to your voice or your 684 00:37:26,180 --> 00:37:30,100 the tiniest of gestures. And that connection is is is 685 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:31,860 like no other. It really is. 686 00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:36,880 It really is, and even just I've got a friend of mine who has a 687 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,120 pony that Once Upon a time she couldn't lead it anywhere 688 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,720 without a bridle and a hard hat on because she feared for her 689 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:46,000 life. She's spent a very, very long 690 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,800 time doing grand work. She's now riding that pony out 691 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,800 in company in a bit less bridle loving life because she spent a 692 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,480 long time on the ground building on all the things that I've I've 693 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,520 guided her to do. She's built on all of those and 694 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:06,380 her connection now is that brilliant that she can go out on 695 00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:11,260 a horse that was once dangerous, bit less with company, loving 696 00:38:11,260 --> 00:38:14,020 life. What do you think that you can 697 00:38:14,020 --> 00:38:17,940 do that we can all do to, to communicate the journey of an 698 00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:21,820 unridden horse and make it exciting enough to appeal to the 699 00:38:21,820 --> 00:38:27,140 wider equestrian industry? Well, I mean, you've definitely 700 00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:29,180 got to work on that connection for sure. 701 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,360 And it's the little things that we implement every day. 702 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,600 You've got to try it. You've got to try it. 703 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,480 Take Claire's instructions. You've got to try it. 704 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,360 You've got to try it. As I say, I would challenge 705 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,240 anyone to take a month, two months off from riding their 706 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,280 horse. Take away the pressure. 707 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,160 Winter's coming. Take away that pressure, work on 708 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,760 other things, go in the paddock and just let your creativity 709 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,840 flow. Because I think our horses are 710 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,070 very much like when you you're schooling young children. 711 00:39:01,390 --> 00:39:04,670 When they first start their foundation years at primary 712 00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:06,790 school, for example, they learn through play. 713 00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:09,710 Play with your horse. Don't train. 714 00:39:09,710 --> 00:39:12,790 Go play. And then that takes the pressure 715 00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:15,830 off of us if we see it as playing, not training, where we 716 00:39:15,830 --> 00:39:19,030 have to achieve certain things. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the 717 00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:21,470 word training, but it's one of the ones that's that's 718 00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:24,710 mainstream, isn't it? But also when we play, our 719 00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:29,300 horses feel that energy. They feel that positivity and 720 00:39:29,620 --> 00:39:32,420 they're learning things as we're teaching them. 721 00:39:32,420 --> 00:39:34,220 They're learning it through the play and they don't even 722 00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:37,100 realizing. And that's again, it takes the 723 00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:39,780 pressure away, as you say, it takes the pressure away and it's 724 00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:43,020 it helps to build on that connection and you end up with 725 00:39:43,020 --> 00:39:46,260 amazing things at the end of it. For those listening Claire who 726 00:39:46,260 --> 00:39:49,380 want to follow your journey with Cloudy or who are seeking 727 00:39:49,380 --> 00:39:52,820 inspiration for their own horses, How do they find you and 728 00:39:52,820 --> 00:39:55,700 get in touch with you? Yeah, I'm on Instagram at Claire 729 00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:58,940 Artis horsemanship and also Facebook Claire Artis 730 00:39:58,940 --> 00:40:01,460 horsemanship. Claire, thank you so much. 731 00:40:01,460 --> 00:40:04,260 I think you've inspired us all to go and put the training to 732 00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:07,540 one side and go and play with our horses in the field, in the 733 00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:10,500 paddocks, in the arena. Thank you so much for coming on. 734 00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:13,940 You've been fascinating and I've certainly connected your journey 735 00:40:14,590 --> 00:40:17,870 with my journey with my mayor. Winnie and I wish we could go 736 00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:20,470 walking together with our horses. 737 00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:23,630 We need to. Let's do it. 738 00:40:23,990 --> 00:40:25,830 Claire, thank you for coming on the podcast. 739 00:40:25,830 --> 00:40:28,790 And don't forget, if you're listening to subscribe to 740 00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:31,950 Curious Equestrian wherever you're listening or watching and 741 00:40:31,950 --> 00:40:34,670 follow us on social media and we'll see you next time for the 742 00:40:34,670 --> 00:40:36,270 next inspiring guest.