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When somebody goes and sees 
pony, a horse in the field and 

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they decide that they're going 
to feed them something, I kind 

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of almost want to say to them 
just. 

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Take a second what are the 
dangers and the risks of going 

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and feeding a horse that you 
don't know? 

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Pony's are very greedy, so if 
they see something they think 

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looks yummy, they'll give it a 
go, even if they if it's going 

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to damage them. 
If someone would pass by a 

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field, enjoy the kind of company
of a pony for a minute and give 

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them some something they've got 
in their pocket, you know? 

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Half an hour later, the owner's 
been up with the vet treating 

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this this horse. 
Knowing that these animals would

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have continued their lives as 
much love, pets and family 

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members. 
Get permission first, have you? 

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Ever fed a horse without the 
owner's permission and without 

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knowing the harm that it can 
cause? 

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Or has your horse been fed by 
walkers, children or holiday 

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makers with catastrophic 
consequences? 

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Recently, I nearly lost my 
miniature horse because of 

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tourists secretly feeding him 
sacks of apples. 

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It was absolutely terrifying and
I felt completely powerless. 

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Thankfully he pulled through, 
but it did get us thinking about

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all of the horses and the 
equestrians suffering because of

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this very preventable issue. 
And so we reached out to Natalie

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Meneer who runs the campaign 
Stop Feeding Our Horses. 

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Natalie is impassioned to 
educate people against feeding 

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strangers horses. 
She gained a social media 

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following after the spike of 
quine tragedies during lockdown.

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And alongside the team, she 
raises awareness about the 

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dangers and the avoidable deaths
of horses with powerful signs, 

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posters and online content. 
Natalie's efforts have been 

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celebrated with a welfare award 
from the BHS, presented by none 

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other than Martin Clunes for her
incredible and impactful 

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voluntary work. 
So how can we stop people 

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feeding our horses? 
Let's find out. 

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Nathalie, welcome to Curious 
Equestrian. 

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Thank you for having me. 
Now take us back to the start of

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the campaign. 
What inspired you to launch Stop

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Feeding Our Horses So it? 
This was all instituted by 

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lockdown. 
So what we found was, and I'm, 

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you know, at that point I was 
just kind of spending time 

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walking around the village with 
my children, enjoying the 

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sunshine as other people were. 
And I noticed that kind of signs

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were popping up and owners were 
getting quite protective over 

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passersby feeding their horses 
and things. 

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And I also noticed online that 
loads more stories were popping 

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up about horses being fed by by 
my walkers and it was having 

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quite a detrimental effect. 
One of the real key stories that

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I saw was where a bag of 
potatoes was tipped into a field

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and a horse choked to death on 
the potato. 

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That was lightning. 
You might have remembered that 

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one. 
And that was just a really 

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traumatic, terrible story, but 
there were, there were so many 

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others. 
And I just thought I'm, I was on

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maternity leave at the time and 
I thought, what can I do to help

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this with this? 
I've got a little bit of time on

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my hands around parenting, you 
know, what can I do? 

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And I, I didn't feel like I 
could physically, you know, be 

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around doing things, but what I 
could do is have maybe some 

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implement influence online. 
So myself and a couple of other 

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people started setting up a 
social media page and groups. 

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One of them was, was private and
it was to be a kind of safe 

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place for owners to come forward
and share their stories and for 

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us to kind of get together and 
plan a, you know, some tactics 

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on how we could kind of try and 
tackle the problem. 

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And then another one was for was
a public group and it was just 

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to try and get the message out 
there and share more widely with

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some of the things that are 
happening. 

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And and we kind of try and get, 
yeah, a message out there to 

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explain to people the dangers. 
Because I think the key thing is

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majority of people don't have 
any idea that it's dangerous and

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it's a completely harmless 
thing. 

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You know, and even kind of 
picking some lush grass on one 

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side of the fence and feeding it
over the fence could actually be

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dangerous because we, you know, 
you don't know if that's been 

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00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,040
sprayed by the farmer or the 
grass in there as, you know, 

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shorter. 
And you might have laminated 

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ponies and things. 
But more often than not, people 

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would be walking out with 
carrots and apples or plan a 

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00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,880
trip to go out there to feed the
ponies locally and, you know, 

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bring their kitchen scraps and 
things from home and to save 

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00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,560
them for the ponies and the 
village kind of thing. 

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And that was just happening more
and more. 

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So. 
Yeah. 

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So that was kind of how it 
started up really. 

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And then it just grew more 
stories that we came across just

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00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,000
seemed like it was there. 
Well, in fact, at Bigham where 

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we thought it was a, a national 
problem, but it was actually a 

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global problem. 
And we the, you know, stories 

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00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,520
were shared from all over the 
place. 

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And we had no idea how big it 
was at first that yeah, it just 

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expanded. 
We had a lot of support from the

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00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,480
BHS as well. 
We they're all very aware 

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00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,920
obviously of what a huge problem
it was and they were taking kind

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00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,720
of measures themselves. 
A guide doctor David Marlin 

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00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,120
started carrying out some 
studies, kind of sending out 

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00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,400
questionnaires and stuff and he,
he got some really interesting 

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00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,800
information back. 
I think he worked with the BHS 

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00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,080
and the University of Bristol on
that. 

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So yes, it just, you know, we 
were playing a small part in it,

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00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,040
but just trying to kind of, you 
know, educate and get the 

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message out and also help owners
in trying to tackle the problem 

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00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,280
themselves where. 
Were you in that time of your 

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00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:07,440
life, obviously in lockdown, 
where were you in the country 

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00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,680
and at that point, did you have 
your own horses? 

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Did you have a, a, a real fiery 
passion for horses? 

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Is that where your your 
willingness and your need to get

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involved came from? 
Yeah. 

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So I've been, you know, horsey 
girl. 

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I've been married since I was 
four years old. 

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It's just, yeah, in my blood. 
It's always been yeah, yeah, my 

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kind of main hobby and well, 
career early on until maybe, I 

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don't know, 10-15 years ago, I 
had a bit of a switch of career,

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got a proper office job and 
something to, you know, a few 

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more pennies. 
And also because we'd had kids, 

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just didn't feel like I could 
really dedicate the same level 

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of time. 
So, yeah, So right, the point at

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that time I was, let me think I 
had, I had a toddler, 2 year old

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and I was, I just had a my, my 
second. 

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He was born into lockdown. 
So at the time we were doing a 

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00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:07,080
lot of sting walks and dog walks
in the woods and around at a 

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local area where the where the 
ponies are. 

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So we would go out every day and
visit the ponies, but we would 

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always walk by. 
And also because it was it was 

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kind of COVID times, we wouldn't
even touch them. 

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You know, as much as I'd want to
stroke a velvety nose, we would 

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00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,000
just stand back and just admire 
them because we're aware that 

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even, you know, touching them 
And then touching the next 

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ponies or somebody else coming 
along with COVID and stretching 

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their nose and us doing it could
also spread the virus. 

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So we're really kind of careful 
about that. 

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So just doing our kind of daily 
exercise and trying to get out 

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there. 
So yeah, that's where we were 

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really at that time. 
So yeah, hadn't, didn't have any

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horses myself, but was just 
really keen to try and kind of 

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give something back and support 
the kind of local community as 

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well as the wider community. 
And for those who have stumbled 

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across this and have no idea why
it would be a problem to feed a 

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horse in a field, what are the 
dangers and the risks of going 

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00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,000
and feeding a horse that you 
don't know? 

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00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,920
Yeah. 
So it's it's it's twofold. 

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00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,320
I mean, before I kind of talk 
about what actually happens, I 

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think the the key thing for me 
is when somebody goes and sees 

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00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,840
playing your horse in the field 
and they decide that they're 

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00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,880
going to feed them something. 
I kind of almost want to say to 

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00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,320
them, just take a second and 
think about it. 

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00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,760
Because this isn't your animal. 
This isn't a pet. 

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00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,240
I mean, this isn't your pet. 
This animal owned is blown by 

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someone else. 
And there's no way that you 

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00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,159
would walk past someone's 
garden, see a dog in their 

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00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:38,880
garden and feed them something. 
So there's a kind of assumption 

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00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,559
that just because it's in the 
field, it's public property. 

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00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,960
You know, it's, it's not these, 
these horses are owned by, by 

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00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,760
humans and they love them dearly
and they spend a lot of money on

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00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,800
their care enough key. 
And, and so there's that. 

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00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,600
There's the kind of, why would 
you do it? 

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00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,240
And, and obviously, if you know 
the owner, you can ask them and 

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00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,280
they may love for you to give 
them a carrot, you know, once a 

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00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,080
week or something, they might be
very happy with that. 

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00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,160
But the key thing is kind of 
having that permission. 

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00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:13,240
So the risk of feeding to start 
with are so horses are very 

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00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,480
complex animals. 
They have a really complex 

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00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,080
digestive system, something that
they get more often than not is 

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00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,840
is colic. 
So they have quite a long 

165
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,120
digestive tract, like meters, 
meters long. 

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00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,520
And there's particular areas in 
that that kind of get quite 

167
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,400
narrow. 
And they also almost like have 

168
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:38,160
kind of 180° turns. 
So if they overeat something, 

169
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,520
they can sometimes really 
struggle to digest it and that 

170
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,080
can cause lots of problems like 
impaction where they get a kind 

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00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,640
of blockage and if they can't 
work it out themselves, then it 

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00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:50,320
it might result in an operation.
If you're giving them something 

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00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,400
they're not used to that isn't 
in the normal diet, that can 

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00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,760
kind of exacerbate stuff. 
So horses typically, especially 

175
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,640
throughout grazing, they'll just
be constantly eating grass all 

176
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,520
day. 
If they then suddenly stop 

177
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,120
eating, that can cause problems.
If they're given something 

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00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,400
unusual that can cause problems.
You know, someone took, they 

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00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,040
were a pile of vegetable 
peelings or something, that's 

180
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,320
going to have an issue. 
Also, some people think that 

181
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,960
grass clippings are safe for 
horses because, you know, it's 

182
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,560
grass. 
But actually what happens with 

183
00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:22,760
grass cuttings in particular is 
they start to ferment. 

184
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,800
So if you dump a pile of grass 
cuttings, they'll start to 

185
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,320
ferment. 
And if horses eat that, that 

186
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,880
fermentation carries on in their
gut. 

187
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,920
It releases gases, gases and 
stuff, which has such a 

188
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,640
dangerous. 
I mean, they're basically, you 

189
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,600
know, the gas static funds in 
their stomach and it can be 

190
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,960
fatal or kind of best required 
Western new assistance. 

191
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,600
So yeah, so there's quite 
there's, there's also something 

192
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,120
called choke, which is where 
horses can't. 

193
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,560
So horses can't be sick. 
Their their, their body isn't 

194
00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,280
designed to do that. 
So if something goes down, it 

195
00:10:58,280 --> 00:10:59,600
has to keep going, can't come 
back up. 

196
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,040
So they're given something 
that's too Chucky for them to 

197
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,240
kind of chew. 
They might be elderly, they 

198
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,760
might have really rubbish teeth.
So if they struggle to choose 

199
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:14,760
them properly, it's going to get
stuck and some. 

200
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,360
So there's something called 
laminitis as well. 

201
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:23,160
So it is basically a really 
common problem, particularly in 

202
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,880
chubby ponies. 
And it it's all kind of to do 

203
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,800
with the sugars. 
So I think a lot of people will 

204
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,600
be amazed in how much sugars in 
grass. 

205
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,600
So you know, grass just seems 
like nothing but. 

206
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:35,920
Disbelief. 
Isn't it? 

207
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,680
Absolutely disbelief? 
But you see a horse and everyone

208
00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:42,400
assumes horses are built and 
meant and have evolved to eat 

209
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,200
grass. 
But it's one of the biggest 

210
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,800
problems, isn't it? 
As a horse owner now managing 

211
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,440
the land and managing the grass 
levels, I know that, you know, 

212
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,720
me and my mum struggle to keep 
that juggle going and to make 

213
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,400
sure there's enough but not too 
much. 

214
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,080
And we've got horses of 
different sizes and miniatures. 

215
00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,720
So it's such a conundrum, isn't 
it, What to do each year? 

216
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,600
Absolutely. 
And, and as you say, people just

217
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,400
don't understand that they've 
got no idea. 

218
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,760
And sometimes owners will be 
seen as being really cruel. 

219
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,200
And we, I mean, I, you know, we 
have our own words for things. 

220
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,200
We call, you know, rugs that 
they wear at night, pajamas or, 

221
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,800
you know, whatever. 
And we might say we're putting 

222
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,480
them in a starvation pallet. 
Obviously we're not starving, 

223
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,760
we're starving them. 
But yes, we know how susceptible

224
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,720
they are to that. 
Yes, high quality grass. 

225
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,000
So it's really important that we
make sure we manage that. 

226
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,880
So it might look to somebody 
passing by. 

227
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,120
Oh my goodness, that pony's got 
nothing to eat, but we know we 

228
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,800
might have given them, you know,
a wedge of hay three times a 

229
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,400
day. 
And that is their, that is their

230
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,800
limit. 
They are, that's all they can 

231
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,960
have today because they're on a 
strict diet. 

232
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,840
They're really laminated. 
You know, they have a lot that, 

233
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,040
you know, we're doing the right 
things for them. 

234
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,880
But somebody that doesn't 
understand that it looks cruel. 

235
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,280
So I completely get that. 
And which is why we, you know, 

236
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,240
we say it's a, it's a kind 
thing. 

237
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,240
It's, it's not, it's not 
malicious. 

238
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,680
Somebody is trying to do 
something nice because but they 

239
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:03,200
they they don't understand 
actually the management it takes

240
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,560
to make sure that they don't 
overeat. 100% and it's such a 

241
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:12,280
huge issue and actually Nestle 
you you greet me today sort of 

242
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,640
already riled up by an 
experience that I've been going 

243
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,160
through with my rescue herd of 
horses. 

244
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,840
We've had a diabolical time and,
you know, I've known about your 

245
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,040
campaign for many years and, and
have supported your efforts in 

246
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,480
in spreading the word on social 
media and opening up the 

247
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,280
discussion about deterring 
people from feeding horses. 

248
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,680
And I've just been unfortunate 
enough that feeders, holiday 

249
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:43,840
makers, walkers, tourists have 
been secretly feeding my rescue 

250
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,320
miniature ponies. 
And it all began, you know, 

251
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,360
obviously they are susceptible 
to laminitis as all miniature 

252
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,480
ponies are at 34 inches, they 
are tiny. 

253
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,920
So they have to have soaked hay,
they have to very restricted 

254
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,120
turn out and like you mentioned,
the word starvation paddock, 

255
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,360
exactly that. 
They have a mud paddock with 

256
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,720
open stables, so lots of places 
to explore. 

257
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,040
But they have their soaked tie 
and just the right amount for 

258
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,760
their weights and their heights.
But to the external light, 

259
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,600
people probably think, oh, 
there's nothing in there, but 

260
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,120
there is. 
And there's all sorts of low 

261
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,360
sugar treats and low sugar 
forage hanging all around the 

262
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,120
stable and in and in treat 
bowls. 

263
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,720
So it's all very, very, very 
carefully managed by me and my 

264
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,120
mum and we had the absolute 
horror that our tiniest at the 

265
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,760
American Miniature Rescue Diesel
went down with laminitis. 

266
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,680
Now normally in the stable deep 
bed, all the usual low sugar 

267
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,800
maintenance and management 
precautions are put into play, 

268
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,400
which is our usual regime that 
if there's even a little bit of 

269
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,360
soreness or footiness, we jump 
into action and we catch it 

270
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,880
early and it never progresses 
further than that. 

271
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,680
This time round we could not 
understand why he kept going 

272
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,960
further and further downhill. 
We felt hopeless, we felt 

273
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,280
devastated. 
We thought what are we doing 

274
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,000
wrong? 
We were staying up late at night

275
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,800
racking our brains, could it be 
something we've missed? 

276
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,400
The vet was coming out saying 
this is, you know, there's 

277
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,360
obviously something underlying, 
maybe it's Cushing's, maybe it's

278
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,080
EMS, maybe it's something worse.
You know, we're going to have to

279
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,800
do blood tests, investigations. 
And he kept getting worse and 

280
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,560
worse and worse. 
And what it transpired, what we 

281
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,120
found out was we changed our 
daily routines. 

282
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,280
Obviously the three times a day 
we go up, we swapped all our 

283
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,800
timings around and lo and 
behold, through the gates, 

284
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,000
trespassers came. 
Holiday makers that been staying

285
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,360
very close to the land that we 
rent through the gates. 

286
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,920
They came with a massive sack of
apples. 

287
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,600
And throughout their holiday 
stay, they had been bringing big

288
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,920
sacks of apples from the farmers
market and feeding it to Diesel,

289
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,960
who is tiny. 
I mean, I cannot, I cannot 

290
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,560
describe how big these sacks 
were. 

291
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,280
And that had been what almost 
killed him. 

292
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,640
And we managed to sort of stop 
them in their tracks and say, 

293
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,320
oh, excuse me, you know, what 
are you doing? 

294
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,200
Do you realize he's been 
seriously ill, that you've 

295
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,640
nearly killed him by feeding him
these apples? 

296
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,480
And all we were greeted with was
oh, but he's so cute. 

297
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,080
I'll be so cute at the. 
Fence. 

298
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,000
And we were just like, oh, jaw 
dropped. 

299
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,240
I didn't know what to say after 
that. 

300
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,320
I didn't, you know, I'd explain 
that he'd been in like a nursery

301
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,920
situation and they're like 
intensive care stable, that the 

302
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,840
vet had been out every day, 
that, you know, we were 

303
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,840
despairing. 
He was close to death. 

304
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,160
And it just didn't sink in with 
this person. 

305
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,680
I just said, you know, no, we 
said, please never feed this 

306
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,400
horse. 
Do not feed horses. 

307
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,360
You don't know and then we 
proceeded although we had 

308
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,760
already had some signs up, we 
proceeded to then buy out our 

309
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:53,200
local supplier of CCTVCCTV in 
action no trespassers, no, no 

310
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,400
unauthorized people buying this 
gate and we have obsessively 

311
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,400
littered every fence with with 
signs to the point that you know

312
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,240
you'd have to be a peculiar 
person to now avoid these size. 

313
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,359
We bought all of the please do 
not feed these horses. 

314
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,079
Your kindness may kill them. 
We've put them on every host 

315
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,560
rail so that if any of the 
horses come up at a particular 

316
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,839
point in the fence, it's covered
at that post to be as clear as 

317
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,440
clear can be. 
But Natalie, I'm sure you feel 

318
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,200
the same. 
Even though we've put these 

319
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,120
precautions up, at the end of 
the day, if someone wants to 

320
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,880
trespass and is going to take it
upon themselves to feed a horse,

321
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,560
short of camping there, what 
else can we do? 

322
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,400
And you feel so out of control 
and you feel so powerless, don't

323
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,360
you? 
And I'm sure this is one of 

324
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:43,960
many. 
Hundreds of stories I've. 

325
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,040
Heard. 
Yeah, and it's impossible. 

326
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,360
You know, it's completely 
impossible. 

327
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,280
And you feel like you're going 
way overboard. 

328
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,760
I mean, it feels like you're put
kind of almost putting them in 

329
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,760
this, you know, I don't know, 
prison camp, you know, like you 

330
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,160
just do. 
You're wrapping them up because 

331
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,560
you want to to cover everything 
that you can possibly do to try 

332
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,720
and kind of people from feeding 
and and sometimes that even that

333
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,120
even all of that is not enough 
because it's like a sign saying 

334
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,480
don't walk on the grass. 
Some people will just ignore it.

335
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,320
They just think they know better
and they will do it regardless. 

336
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,800
And even, you know, like you 
say, having that conversation 

337
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,440
with the people and they still 
just don't get it. 

338
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:21,920
They they don't hear what you're
saying. 

339
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,400
They just think it's nice that, 
you know, you use the term 

340
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,160
killing with kindness. 
Completely, completely, Yeah, 

341
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,800
accurate. 
We we are just seeing that, 

342
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,120
that, that they are trying to do
this, not what they see is a 

343
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,240
nice thing. 
And they cannot understand how 

344
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,400
it can possibly be cruel. 
And I guess I mean, the econ 

345
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,880
industry doesn't have a great 
reputation, particularly right 

346
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,440
now. 
You know, you, you will often 

347
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,160
see, I'm sure people worrying 
about econ welfare. 

348
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,960
And you know, the racing 
industry doesn't have a great 

349
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,680
reputation. 
More recently, even dressed, the

350
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,320
dress arts industry has kind of 
gone under the microscope a lot.

351
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,200
And, and people obviously are 
concerned, but there's also a 

352
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,480
huge level of ignorance and, and
lack of understanding. 

353
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,880
And I mean any horse, any sport 
horse, I know their owners, 

354
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,720
their grooms, everybody 
involved. 

355
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,400
They love that horse 2 pieces. 
And they do, they go above and 

356
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,680
beyond, give them that level of 
care and they, they manage 

357
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,320
their, their lifestyle so 
carefully. 

358
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,120
You know, if God forbid the 
worst happened, they would be 

359
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,160
besides themselves. 
That, you know, they, they adore

360
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,040
them. 
That's why they do it. 

361
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,280
You know, horses aren't treated 
like bikes. 

362
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,240
They are respected and very, 
very well looked after. 

363
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,920
But I think with there's just 
such a level of ignorance, 

364
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,720
people don't really understand 
what goes in that. 

365
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,440
People just don't have that that
awareness. 

366
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,040
So I think the big part of the 
kind of campaign that we're 

367
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,760
trying to do was just educate 
and go about it in the right 

368
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,400
way. 
We didn't want to kind of get 

369
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,680
angry with people for doing it. 
We wanted them just to 

370
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,560
understand the dangers and the 
risks and then what's happening.

371
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,560
You know, you talked about other
things that you put in place 

372
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,160
with your ponies to try and 
protect them. 

373
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,440
And that was a kind of a lot of 
advice that we gave out as well.

374
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,560
We talked about kind of so a lot
of lot of fields might have, you

375
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,200
know, hedgerows or post and rail
around the outside. 

376
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,400
And we encouraged kind of 
electric fencing as well, just 

377
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,480
to kind of get the horses back a
bit further so they wouldn't 

378
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,600
necessarily put their heads over
the fence to reach. 

379
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,720
And, you know, talk about CCTV. 
That's not a, you know, small 

380
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,240
investment, but sometimes it's 
necessary, especially if your 

381
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,720
worses live, you know, far away 
from where you are and you can't

382
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,240
kind of keep a close eye and 
you're visiting them, you know, 

383
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,480
one or two times a day maybe. 
It's really challenging. 

384
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,200
I mean, the signage is great 
and, and one of the things that 

385
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,640
we found was really effective 
actually was a kind of personal 

386
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,480
sign. 
So we made juice a few signs for

387
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,040
sale and we worked with a couple
of companies to do that. 

388
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,920
We had some car stickers and we 
had, yes, field signs and stuff 

389
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,760
as well. 
But one thing we were asked a 

390
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,960
few times was can you make me a 
bespoke sign for my my horse or 

391
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,520
my pony? 
So we did do that. 

392
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,400
You mentioned EMSA little while 
ago. 

393
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,200
So one owner, for example, she 
talked, she, she explained how 

394
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,400
her horse had EMS, which is 
equine metabolic syndrome, which

395
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,480
is really similar to diabetes. 
So basically her horse is really

396
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,320
susceptible to to a lot of kind 
of sugars in the, in the diet. 

397
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,680
And even that comes from grass. 
There's an amazing amount of 

398
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,600
sugar in grass, especially ash 
grass. 

399
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,080
So this time of year now, it's 
been springtime, it's quite 

400
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,640
challenging for owners to manage
that. 

401
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,480
And you know, you talked about 
strip paddocks and things and 

402
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,200
fencing sections off, so only 
allowing them to have a small 

403
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,560
amount at a time because they 
could otherwise just go in and 

404
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,280
gorge themselves. 
And you've also got me thinking 

405
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,040
about muscles as well. 
Muscles for ponies. 

406
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
The grazing muscles, yeah. 

407
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,120
Well, it's not terrific. 
And if you were someone that 

408
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,320
didn't know about ponies, you 
saw that on a pony, you'd think 

409
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,320
that, well, pony can't eat 
grass, poor thing. 

410
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,760
And I've had stories of people 
taking them off because they 

411
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,960
think they know better and they 
want to take them off to help 

412
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,320
the pony, but obviously that 
isn't helpful at all. 

413
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:03,440
So. 
Yeah. 

414
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,600
So some of the kind of signs we 
made some for. 

415
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,680
Yeah. 
Ponies with the Ms. we have 

416
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,920
ponies with the laminitic. 
And actually that worked quite 

417
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,480
well because it felt like those 
that coming past got to know the

418
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,600
ponies. 
Oh, you know, this is Bella. 

419
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,120
She's got the gun of this going 
on. 

420
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,960
You know, I can't eat this or, 
you know, I'm Bob and I've got 

421
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,560
no teeth. 
I can't eat this. 

422
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,840
Please don't feed me it it, it 
kind of wouldn't really help. 

423
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,600
Some people were bathing by 
because they, they, they felt 

424
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,400
like they could actually get to 
know the ponies and what the the

425
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,640
kind of risks of what they might
do could affect them. 

426
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,200
So that that was quite 
effective. 

427
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,160
As you say, there's lots of kind
of things that we just only 

428
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,640
could do, but at the end of the 
day, can't physically stop 

429
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,080
people from doing it. 
Even with the fencing setting 

430
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,360
them back and stuff, they could 
stand there and took a carrot if

431
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,480
they wanted to. 
They could do all of that. 

432
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,360
So you physically can't anybody,
but you can do what you you know

433
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,000
what you can. 
So yeah, that was part of the 

434
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,160
campaign. 
We're just trying to, and they 

435
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,920
do help people. 
And they do because previously 

436
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,840
our our previous land, we set 
them back from, we had signs on 

437
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,200
the gate. 
This was the previous moth land 

438
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,040
that we rented before it 
flooded. 

439
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,080
We had signs on the gates. 
We set them back with electric 

440
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,840
fencing and people would still 
lob apple cores as far as they 

441
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,280
could to reach the miniatures. 
And you think, what does it 

442
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,600
take? 
And you'd make that key point of

443
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,320
education. 
Natalie, how far do you think it

444
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,240
needs to go? 
We've got signs. 

445
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,680
You've got personalized signs, 
car stickers, social media 

446
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,600
campaigns to spread awareness 
and to make viral posts and 

447
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,600
shareable posts to spread the 
word. 

448
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,280
What will it take? 
What next do you think will it 

449
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,080
take to stop people from doing 
this and to educate further? 

450
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,520
So, you know, I'm really 
passionate and I can hear that 

451
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,240
you're really passionate and now
that it's not happened to you, 

452
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,040
which I'm so sorry about, you 
know, I know how kind work your 

453
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,720
spirit. 
Absolutely, like such a kindred 

454
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,360
spirit and to have that shared 
philosophy and that shared 

455
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,040
experience. 
I think it makes you feel 

456
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,560
empowered together, really to 
have these kind of conversations

457
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,960
that we feel we can have this 
discussion, we can put it out, 

458
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,720
you know, into the podcast 
sphere sphere onto the Internet 

459
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,720
and hope that it will reach 
other people that will share 

460
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,560
this and spread the word. 
They'll pop it on social media. 

461
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:25,880
They might share it with 
friends. 

462
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,640
They might even share it to 
friends with the dog walkers, 

463
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,760
you know, on a on a bridle path 
with fields of horses. 

464
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,200
And we have that hope that 
actually the message might reach

465
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,080
far and wide. 
As you say, it's not just a 

466
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,320
local issue. 
It's not just a national issue. 

467
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,360
It's a worldwide issue. 
How far can we share this 

468
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,400
podcast episode and hope to 
educate people? 

469
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,520
And that's, that's my, my real 
ambition for this, this episode 

470
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,360
together that we're creating 
today. 

471
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,360
And I'm hoping, Natalie, that 
you've got big dreams. 

472
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,000
What do you think next in terms 
of education? 

473
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,840
What do you think? 
What else can be done? 

474
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,360
Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a 
really, it's a really 

475
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,680
challenging one because I think 
what's really important, what 

476
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,360
really helps is the engagement 
and the commitment, commitment 

477
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:13,280
from other people. 
So in the past, a lot of people 

478
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,160
that joined the campaign were 
going out there and, you know, 

479
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,680
making themselves known and, and
educating. 

480
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,080
So I had some, some women, for 
example, they went to their 

481
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,480
local primary schools and they 
spoke to the children. 

482
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,440
And it was so interesting to see
the reaction because the kind of

483
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,280
what happened was they were 
explaining to these children 

484
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,760
the, the risk. 
And it was interesting, you 

485
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,120
know, like they, they asked a 
question, would you ever feed a 

486
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,720
dog chocolate? 
And they know the answer's no, 

487
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,040
but would you ever go in, you 
know, walk past a pony and feed 

488
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,920
them carrots? 
Yes, yes, we would. 

489
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,840
You know, so it's kind of re 
educating to say actually can't 

490
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,880
really do that. 
You haven't spoken to the owner.

491
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,280
It's not your, you know, you 
don't own that pony. 

492
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,560
You need to get permission 
before you do that. 

493
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,320
So it's a really interesting 
education piece. 

494
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,280
And then what we saw was that 
the kids would go away and 

495
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,440
they'd tell their parents, you 
can't feed that random pony that

496
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,960
you don't know. 
You can't do that. 

497
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:10,960
So that was really, really 
valuable. 

498
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,920
And, you know, the more that 
that happens, the better. 

499
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,320
I actually found locally that 
there was there some donkeys in 

500
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,640
the village at the other end of 
the village that some of the 

501
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,920
school children were brought 
past and they might, you know, 

502
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,080
decide to offer some carrots. 
And so I had a conversation with

503
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,200
one of the teachers to say you 
can't use that. 

504
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,160
They're not, you know, that you 
don't own them. 

505
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,120
Funny enough, they, they happen 
to be moved. 

506
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,720
So let's, and they, they kind of
came by. 

507
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,120
They're disappointed to see that
the donkeys weren't there. 

508
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:39,640
They were sent back in the 
paddock that they couldn't. 

509
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,840
And I can't help but wonder, was
that a reflection on the kind of

510
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,120
action that was happening? 
And, you know, that and the 

511
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,520
owners are trying to protect 
them and move them back. 

512
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,560
I've had owners kind of say to 
me that they're losing their 

513
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,360
land effectively because they're
having to set their ponies 

514
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,400
further and further back. 
And they're, you know, not able 

515
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,360
to, to utilize the kind of 
grazing that they would like to 

516
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,240
because they're just trying to 
protect them and have them 

517
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720
further from, you know, public 
footpaths or roads and things 

518
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,440
for their own sake. 
And I've also known people that 

519
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,120
have physically moved their 
ponies or horses and they've, 

520
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:15,560
they've been at, you know, 
lovely yards, which are a really

521
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,720
handy spot for them. 
And they physically move them 

522
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,280
somewhere else just to put them 
in a safe place because there's 

523
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,320
just too much footfall and they 
can't be sure that they can, 

524
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,800
they can keep them away from 
passersby, which is not ideal. 

525
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,240
It's really challenging. 
But these are the length that 

526
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,160
you know that we have to do as 
pony owners, horse owners to to 

527
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,640
make sure that our animals are 
safe. 

528
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:42,000
And it is increasingly hard to 
find. 

529
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,880
Isn't it Natalie as well? 
And actually, I, I don't know 

530
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,520
about you, but you know, for me,
when you're looking at potential

531
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,160
premises that you can rent or 
land that you might be able to 

532
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,080
rent for your animals, you know,
increasingly you're having to 

533
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,280
turn down opportunities because 
it's on a really busy public 

534
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,720
footpath. 
And you just know, like you say,

535
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,280
you're going to lose half of 
that field for moving the back. 

536
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,040
You then can't rotate them and 
move them around the field. 

537
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,440
They're stuck in a permanent 
sort of box which you don't want

538
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,920
for your horses and you're not 
able to utilise the space and 

539
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,760
then you have to look for other 
options. 

540
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,520
And there's less and less land 
for equestrians now to use 

541
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,760
because of farming and because 
of housing and, and, and all the

542
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,160
rest of it. 
So then we're feeling trapped as

543
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,280
well, and we're feeling like the
there are less opportunities for

544
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,640
for horse ownership because of 
the lack of land too. 

545
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,440
For sure and also the kind of 
levels of enrichment that we 

546
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,960
might want to give them. 
So we might want to, you know, 

547
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,880
utilise the hedgerow and things 
that are there that are 

548
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,040
available and we're kind of 
losing that as well. 

549
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,720
So, so yeah, there's, there's so
many, so many impacts I think 

550
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,200
people aren't really 
considering. 

551
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,360
And also, you know, it's just a 
kind of complete innocent act. 

552
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,480
So someone would pass by a, a 
field, enjoy the kind of company

553
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,440
of a pony for a minute and give 
them some, something they've got

554
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,720
in their pocket and then carry 
on walking. 

555
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,960
And they don't know that, you 
know, half an hour later, the 

556
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,160
owner's been up with the vet 
treating this, this horse. 

557
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,840
And I, I remember someone 
talking to me about an incident 

558
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,800
where something like that had 
happened. 

559
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,400
And then a week later, the same 
person came past the field and 

560
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,000
said, oh, you know, where's, 
where's he gone? 

561
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,360
Where's he not, wasn't on the 
field anymore. 

562
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,960
And they explained what happened
and the impact feeding had had 

563
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,520
and that horse wasn't around 
anymore because of it. 

564
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,040
And that really obviously kind 
of hit home to that person. 

565
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,880
But we shouldn't need to come to
that, you know, those levels of 

566
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:37,760
extreme to understand and, and 
kind of, and we acted what being

567
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,280
said and listen to what's being 
said. 

568
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,280
I just wish people would would, 
you know, hear what we're saying

569
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,360
is serious and, and take it like
that. 

570
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,760
I think also we haven't had any 
favours done for us. 

571
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,040
I know a little while ago there 
was an incident that was 

572
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,520
reported on what the program 
called, but it was where. 

573
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,400
Oh my goodness, Like a morning, 
good morning programme and 

574
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,360
somebody was basically had this 
happen and the presenters made 

575
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,240
fun about it. 
You know what's so bad about 

576
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,600
giving them some grass? 
They didn't take it seriously. 

577
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,200
We did issue a complaint and 
asked for kind of retraction, 

578
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,040
but it didn't flex. 
But you know, if we've got that 

579
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,120
level of interaction, that kind 
of media attention and then not 

580
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,640
on our side, it just doesn't 
help us out. 

581
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,640
There have been numerous 
programmes. 

582
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,160
I mean, the BBC did a brilliant 
programme, interviewed us a few 

583
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,480
years ago. 
And you know, there's been loads

584
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,600
of kind of newspaper articles 
and stuff written and loads of 

585
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,440
horse and hound articles 
written. 

586
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,480
And that's all really helpful. 
But it's also kind of to a 

587
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,920
specific audience. 
So it's, it's the mainstream 

588
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,600
media that we really need to 
listen and to kind of side with 

589
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,040
us because they're the ones that
are going to get the public kind

590
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,120
of get on their side and explain
to them the dangers. 

591
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,560
It's all well and good being in 
our industry, but it's that 

592
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,560
reach that we need to go a bit 
further because we all know the 

593
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,160
dangers within the echo 
industry, but it's those outside

594
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,760
of that that need to have that 
understanding. 

595
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,160
Exactly. 
I was also just thinking about 

596
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,120
of those who happened a while 
ago. 

597
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,800
So, you know, I talked about 
colic and choke and lemonites 

598
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,440
and stuff and grass cutting, but
I was also just thinking about 

599
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,600
injury in general. 
So, you know, we're, we're 

600
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,040
careful when we manage our group
of forces together and how they 

601
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,600
interact with each other. 
And we know sometimes, like if 

602
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,040
you were giving them their feed,
you'd spread out their buckets 

603
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,240
and make sure that they can't 
scrap because, you know, they 

604
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,560
might fight over food 
occasionally. 

605
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,520
But there has been incidents, 
some incidences where people 

606
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,480
would feed over the fence and 
horses would get quite 

607
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,560
territorial and then fight. 
And there was the most horrific 

608
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,360
injury of one horse called 
Flash. 

609
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,920
And it was basically because 
somebody fed him something and 

610
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,520
his field mate wasn't very happy
about it. 

611
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,840
And, you know, and they had a 
fight and, you know, he's never 

612
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,800
been the same since He had a 
huge amount of veterinary 

613
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,600
attention to, to kind of try and
help him out. 

614
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,640
But you know, he's, I think he's
now ridden and, and back in 

615
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,720
work, but it took a long, long 
time to get there. 

616
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,840
And obviously huge expense. 
But that's just the most kind of

617
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,760
simple thing that could happen 
just from the old mates, you 

618
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,280
know, fighting with each other 
because of feeding. 

619
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,800
There's so many different 
branches to this, aren't there? 

620
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,920
Like you say, injury, death, 
illness. 

621
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,880
And of course, at the end of 
every one of those different 

622
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,080
scenarios is a huge vet bill as 
well, leaving the owners not 

623
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,120
only devastated about what's 
happened, whether it is death or

624
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,000
whether it is severe illness or 
whether it is injury, but 

625
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,800
there's also thousands of pounds
to pay in vet bills and only the

626
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,800
owner to pick up that cost. 
And I know that from personal 

627
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,920
experience. 
We had thousands of pounds of 

628
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,040
vet bills to pay to cover the 
investigations with the vets, 

629
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,840
then the, you know, the 
medications, the treatments and 

630
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,000
then all the bedding costs from 
him being in and all the rest of

631
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,680
it. 
The cost just keep tallying up 

632
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,200
and at the end of the day we 
have to pay that. 

633
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,520
Even though it was not due down 
to our management, it was down 

634
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,160
to someone feeding the horses. 
And we were just lucky enough to

635
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,640
be able to say that we caught 
those people and we were able to

636
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,800
stop it happening. 
And, and we'll hopefully touch 

637
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,760
wood and unable to get Diesel 
back from from the brink. 

638
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,120
But he also suffered for the 
first time in his entire life 

639
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,800
with a rotation of his pedal 
bone in his hoof. 

640
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,040
And at the age of 14, throughout
his life, he'd only ever had 

641
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,200
that sort of touch of 
inflammation of laminitis, right

642
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,080
The early stages, we'd always 
caught it on time. 

643
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160
We'd always nipped it in the bud
before it became anything 

644
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,800
serious. 
And for the first time, due to 

645
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,720
other people, due to people 
feeding diesel, he now has a 

646
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,120
slight rotation. 
And apparently as he goes down 

647
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,720
with laminitis again, he might 
have to have hoof boots. 

648
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,760
And the cots continue. 
And the worry continues as to 

649
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,120
what that might mean for him and
his little hooves. 

650
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,280
And I just can't believe I'm, 
you know, it's still, as you can

651
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,679
probably tell, it's still so 
fresh and it makes me feel so 

652
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:21,040
angry and upset that this has 
happened due to people 

653
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,760
trespassing and, and take it 
upon themselves to feed. 

654
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,600
And I think we have to talk 
about those intentions, Natalie,

655
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,880
because I through talking about 
this on curious equestrian and 

656
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,800
on YouTube and on on my animal 
sanctuary platform, mini multi 

657
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,639
sanctuary, we've had a lot of 
people say, oh, but you know, 

658
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:40,800
people are doing it because 
they've got the best intentions.

659
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,080
You know, they want to be kind, 
they want to feed the pony. 

660
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,639
Do you think it is that natty at
the end of the day? 

661
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:49,800
Or is it people just wanting to 
do what they want to do and not 

662
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,199
be told otherwise? 
I think it's a bit of both to be

663
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,040
honest. 
I mean, I think lockdown didn't 

664
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,520
help because people would go out
on their daily exercise and they

665
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,640
would, you know, they'd, they'd 
make a point. 

666
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,960
I mean, their daily exercise 
could involve visiting the 

667
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,960
ponies locally and feeding them 
something nice. 

668
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,280
I mean, that they, they saw that
as their kind of the fun thing 

669
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,120
to do for them. 
Almost like we have petting zoos

670
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,240
across the country. 
We have, you know, farm parts 

671
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:18,560
and things. 
And as part of that, I mean, I 

672
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,880
know at our local farm park, we 
can buy a bag of food and we can

673
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,720
go around and feed the animals. 
However, we are not allowed to 

674
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:26,440
feed the donkeys. 
We're not allowed to feed the 

675
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,560
ponies. 
You know, we know that we can 

676
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,440
feed the deer, we can feed the 
sheep, could feed the pigs, but 

677
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,200
we can't feed the ponies and the
donkeys. 

678
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,560
And but I think, I think knowing
that those are available, I 

679
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,120
think some people kind of think,
oh, this is basically a free 

680
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,800
petting zoo, isn't it? 
I can just go pop down the road 

681
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,840
and see these ponies and you 
know, I'm going to save back my 

682
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,080
apple cores or, you know, my 
vet's peelings and I'll and I'll

683
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:55,800
save them for them, which which 
I mean, potentially even a one 

684
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,680
off could be dangerous. 
But if there's 10 people going 

685
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,560
on the same public footpath 
passing the same horse ponies 

686
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,640
every day and they continue to 
feed them. 

687
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,120
I mean, you know, your own pony 
was so susceptible to, well, it 

688
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,600
sounds like an enormous bag of 
apples, probably bigger than 

689
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,120
him, but but even how 2 makes a 
difference, God forbid, you 

690
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,120
know, a huge volume of it. 
But so I think there's part of 

691
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,440
that. 
I don't necessarily think it's 

692
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,280
malicious. 
However, when they do have a 

693
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,920
conversation with the owner and 
the owner says, you know, you 

694
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,160
can't do this. 
Do you think people just think 

695
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,160
they know better and will do it 
regardless? 

696
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,360
But I think what does help is 
having that conversation with 

697
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,160
the owner. 
And I've known some people that 

698
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,640
have said, you know, I'm happy 
for an amount to be given, but 

699
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,920
it has to be limited. 
So some people have kind of 

700
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,800
almost created kind of 
collection boxes and said, we've

701
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,400
got some treats for this pony, 
pop them in here. 

702
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,200
Thank you. 
You know, and we will distribute

703
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,960
them kind of gradually, you 
know, where there's normal feed 

704
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,320
at an appropriate time. 
But but it makes sure that they 

705
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,000
don't have a huge volume. 
So that's one way of doing it. 

706
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,240
But I would absolutely encourage
people to kind of get in touch 

707
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,040
with the owners and have a 
conversation with them and get 

708
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,520
to know the ponies and what 
they're about. 

709
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,200
Some might love it, some might 
be very happy to have, you know,

710
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,840
an odd carrot and things and 
some might not. 

711
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,240
So, but, but kind of having that
level of engagement is really 

712
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:17,200
helpful, which is why I quite 
like the idea of the bespoke 

713
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,880
signs as well. 
You know, if you're comfortable 

714
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
to put your kind of contact 
details on there, if you want 

715
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,400
someone to find out, you know, 
you want people to find out more

716
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,800
about your ponies and you can do
that. 

717
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,120
Obviously it's completely up to 
the individual. 

718
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,040
But, but if it's someone that 
you, you know, a local to and 

719
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,120
you'll see them regularly, it 
just might be an idea because 

720
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,600
again, that just helps the, the,
you know, raising awareness. 

721
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,800
And then once you kind of have 
that one conversation with that 

722
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,560
individual, they may go home and
they might spread it across 

723
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,840
their community as well. 
So that's just kind of helping, 

724
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,640
you know, the community in 
general and trying to kind of 

725
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,320
reach a bit of wider awareness. 
And just circling back to you 

726
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,320
mentioning children, because of 
course adults will feed horses 

727
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,800
as well. 
We all love horses at every age,

728
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,520
but there's a particularly 
particular draw for children, 

729
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,240
isn't there? 
Like you say, it's like a 

730
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,000
petting zoo activity. 
People think, oh, it's OK to 

731
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,120
take my children for a walk 
before bed and to go and feed 

732
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,600
the horses. 
So if the education needs to 

733
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,960
start at that child level, as 
you mentioned, you had a great 

734
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,040
response when you were talking 
to children. 

735
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,440
Do you think there should be a 
permanent pro schools programme 

736
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:30,320
rolled out across the country to
educate children in all schools?

737
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,160
And do you think that would ever
be possible with budgets and and

738
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,760
the education system as it is? 
I mean, I mean that, yeah, 

739
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,080
absolutely fantastic. 
You know, I'm aware of some kind

740
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,800
of forest schools and 
organisations and things. 

741
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,320
And I mean, I know in the local 
community around West Berkshire,

742
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,640
loads of the schools, they stay,
you know, on their curriculum, 

743
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,080
they go outside, they go on 
woodland walks, they go, they 

744
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,000
have forest schools in place, 
things like that. 

745
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,800
And it's really important that 
there's a really good awareness 

746
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,080
and level of teaching for, for, 
for world, for wildlife and, and

747
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,120
communities. 
And also know we've, we have a 

748
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,480
fairly low natured discovery 
centre and they have, they do a 

749
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,200
lot of teaching as well. 
And so, yeah, absolutely. 

750
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,640
I mean, if this is brought in as
part of that, it would be 

751
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,000
brilliant. 
I think about the kind of New 

752
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,520
Forest area and I know they take
it really seriously and they 

753
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,120
make sure that, you know, 
educated about this. 

754
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,040
But yeah, absolutely it should 
be part of that. 

755
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,600
I know the the, the legislation 
on Defra was changed, I think I 

756
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:36,920
want to say a couple of years 
ago. 

757
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,320
I don't know how what I do 
that's been communicated, but 

758
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,360
but yeah, you know, it's really,
really important to get it out 

759
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,080
there. 
If that could be included, you 

760
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,920
know, no, it doesn't take much. 
It's just a, you know, just 

761
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,920
raising that awareness and just 
going through the basics and, 

762
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,640
and the main thing is, you know,
just permission. 

763
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,800
Just, it seems like, and I feel 
like a nice thing to do, but 

764
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,160
just make permission first. 
Once you've kind of got that 

765
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,000
established, I think everything 
else kind of comes comes 

766
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,600
alongside that. 
It's really important to 

767
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,680
understand the reasons why, but 
the main thing is get permission

768
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,360
first before you go and feed any
animal you don't know. 

769
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,200
And you mentioned at the 
beginning of the episode 

770
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,040
Lightning's story where 
Lightning choked on the bag of 

771
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,800
potatoes. 
Absolutely tragic. 

772
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,800
I've mentioned my story. 
There was a recent news article 

773
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,040
across all news outlets talking 
about a Suffolk horse owner, 

774
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,440
where the horse was fit and 
healthy and happy and young 10 

775
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,160
year old. 
At the start of the day, the 

776
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,520
owner checked the CCTV Cam on 
their phone at lunchtime to see 

777
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,320
they were sort of writhing on 
the floor. 

778
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,400
And by the evening they were 
dead, despite the owner managing

779
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,560
to get their friends and and 
support network to go to the 

780
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,920
horse on their lunch break from 
work. 

781
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,360
And there was nothing they could
do because people had been 

782
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,720
feeding them cabbages of this 
particular horse, cabbages which

783
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,640
is of course toxic to horses. 
And then the horse died in the 

784
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,200
evening. 
You know, a horse that should 

785
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,920
have lived a long and happy 
life. 

786
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,520
And I know we don't want to 
dwell on too many negative and 

787
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,040
sad stories, Natalie, but, but 
could you give us some more 

788
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,120
examples of other stories? 
So we've had cabbages that kill 

789
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,200
horses, potatoes that kill 
horses. 

790
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,440
We've had my own horse being fed
apples when he's susceptible to 

791
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,400
laminitis and nearly killing 
him. 

792
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,520
What other examples are there of
of of what people are doing to 

793
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,640
horses across the country 
without realising? 

794
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,680
One that's really prominent to 
me was a little a little 

795
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,800
Shetland pony called Hamish. 
I don't know if you you came 

796
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,080
across that story, but yes, 
sweet little Shetland. 

797
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,320
We know we talked about them 
being quite good doers, which 

798
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,240
means they they do very well on 
very little. 

799
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:52,120
And somehow, and I still am at a
loss in how this happened, but 

800
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,000
he was was basically fed the 
remains of a roast dinner. 

801
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,200
And you may well, I'm sure you 
know, but for the, you know, 

802
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,480
wider community, horses are 
vegetarian. 

803
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,320
There is no way they they can't 
digest meat. 

804
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,880
And again, I talked about 
earlier about the fact they 

805
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,560
can't be sick. 
Something goes down, it won't 

806
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,600
come out. 
Ponies are very greedy. 

807
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,960
So if they see something that 
they think looks yummy, they'll 

808
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,640
give it a go, even if they if 
it's going to damage them, they 

809
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,560
don't have that kind of level of
common sense. 

810
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,360
They will gorge themselves to 
death effectively. 

811
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:24,720
So this pony did that. 
He he stuffed his his face with 

812
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,280
a left labour roast dinner, 
which I assume was some kind of 

813
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,360
take away. 
You know that someone was in 

814
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,800
middle of eating and they dumped
in his paddock and he suffered 

815
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,080
with impaction colic. 
Luckily the owner was able to 

816
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,520
rush him to the vet and he had 
emergency surgery. 

817
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,080
He had a incision basically the 
full length of his belly. 

818
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,400
They got in there and managed to
sort it out, you know, and, and 

819
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,280
with colic, you really have to 
catch it quick. 

820
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,000
If you know, the dead gut needs 
to be removed, obviously shorten

821
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,960
that system, which makes it 
really difficult. 

822
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,200
They managed to get in there and
sort out the get rid of the 

823
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,880
impaction and so back up. 
A lot of horses even if they 

824
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,520
have had surgery don't 
necessarily recover because that

825
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,840
kind of intrusion can then going
forward and it can, can affect 

826
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,680
the digestion. 
So horses that kind of have 

827
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,120
colic once or twice may become 
prone to it and continue to to 

828
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,240
suffer from it. 
But luckily he survived that 

829
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:24,120
operation and made a full 
recovery. 

830
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,000
I think the owner moved him 
pretty swiftly after that to put

831
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,600
him in a safer place. 
Slightly setbacks from the 

832
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,920
public and and yeah, and he's 
doing OK. 

833
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,240
But he was really lucky, you 
know, and kudos, Fiona, that for

834
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,760
catching it so fast. 
But even if it had been, you 

835
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,880
know, in other cases, it might 
have been same situation may 

836
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,560
have been caught just as quick. 
Sometimes it's luck at the draw 

837
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,560
if they make it or not because 
it's just a very risky procedure

838
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,040
process. 
So he's one that kind of springs

839
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,200
to mind. 
I mean, there's a number of 

840
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,880
horses and ponies that weren't 
so lucky. 

841
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:02,040
I have, you know, I have a long 
list of, of owners who have come

842
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,920
to me telling me that they had 
that the outcome was fatal. 

843
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,080
I mean, we've got, as I 
mentioned, we've got stop, stop 

844
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,840
beating our horses pages on 
Facebook, Instagram and so on. 

845
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,360
And you can go in there and have
a look at some of these stories 

846
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,600
and personal stories of, of 
things that happened. 

847
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,120
I've also got pages that just 
have the kind of memorials to 

848
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,240
the ponies and horses that were 
lost through public feeding as 

849
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:29,640
well. 
So there's a lot on there. 

850
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,760
It's. 
So heartbreaking and I've seen 

851
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,680
those posts that you make 
necessarily and and how gutting 

852
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,200
it is knowing that these animals
would have continued their lives

853
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,040
as much loved pets and family 
members as all of our animals 

854
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,920
are to us. 
And yet this isn't an issue 

855
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,000
affecting dogs or cats or 
rabbits because as you say, 

856
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,320
everyone knows that you wouldn't
feed a dog treats on its walk. 

857
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,600
No one stops a dog and says, can
I give it my ice cream? 

858
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,080
Can I give it some treats? 
Can I give it the leftovers of 

859
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,000
my lunch? 
Because that's not what you do. 

860
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,960
And everyone knows that's the 
social way to act. 

861
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,960
And yet these horses would have 
continued their lives if it 

862
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,520
wasn't for humans getting in the
way, doing what they want, 

863
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,920
feeding, thinking they're being 
generous and kind and, and how 

864
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,960
heartbreaking that is. 
And I don't know how those 

865
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,040
owners ever recover knowing that
it wasn't down to them. 

866
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,600
You know, we all have to accept 
as, as pet owners and animal 

867
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,360
owners that one day we will lose
our animal. 

868
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,920
We hope they're going to be 
elderly and old and, and have 

869
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,720
lived a long, happy life with 
us. 

870
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,560
And it's hard enough then, isn't
it, to say goodbye and to let go

871
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,560
and to come to terms with that 
grief. 

872
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,840
How on earth do those owners 
recover that have lost their 

873
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,480
horses? 
I mean, you must have seen the 

874
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,120
after effects and heard the 
after effects all too many 

875
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,800
times. 
Absolutely. 

876
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,000
Well, I don't get the honest 
truth is, I don't think anybody 

877
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,640
ever does. 
I mean, you know, when you lose 

878
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,560
anybody in your life, you grieve
for a long time, and 

879
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,760
particularly when it's something
completely, completely 

880
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,920
avoidable. 
And we talked about lightning 

881
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,360
earlier. 
And I just keep, I keep thinking

882
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:10,920
back to him. 
I mean, he was the most 

883
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,760
beautiful Gray show pony, 
absolutely stunning, you know, 

884
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:21,000
And if you ever come across the 
BBC Manchester radio interview 

885
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,680
that his owner has done, it is 
really emotional. 

886
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,440
And if I listen back to it, even
now, it gets me going because 

887
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:38,040
you can just feel the pain. 
It's just impossible because you

888
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,480
know, it's completely 
unavoidable, completely 

889
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,280
avoidable thing that happened 
completely out of the owners 

890
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,880
control. 
Nothing that they could have 

891
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,240
done to stop it from happening. 
Somebody just decided it, you 

892
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:52,160
know, upon themselves to feed 
them and that was the result. 

893
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,280
There's also, you know, sweet 
little ponies that are 

894
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,440
children's ponies that are 
they're everything, you know, 

895
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,320
these, you know, you must know 
of these kind of golden ponies 

896
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,320
that are just just the most 
amazing school masters that, you

897
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,000
know, these kids grew up, grew 
up with. 

898
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,280
And then again, suddenly going 
from living a perfectly happy, 

899
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,840
healthy life, being completely, 
you know, doted over and adored 

900
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,560
to suddenly gone is just 
heartbreaking. 

901
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,360
And these poor kids, they 
shouldn't have to deal with with

902
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,120
that in their, you know, early 
lives. 

903
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,160
It's just, it's not fair. 
So yeah, it's, it's really 

904
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:37,520
difficult. 
And again, I mean, I know a 

905
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,640
number of adult owners and this 
similar, similar things 

906
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,880
happened. 
And for us, I mean, our, our 

907
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,840
horses are our family. 
I mean, even now I've, I've been

908
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,840
away from having my own for a 
long time and it's really hard 

909
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,360
and it's almost like a drug. 
I walk past the yard. 

910
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,800
I mean, my, my, my 4 year old 
goes riding now and I'll go to 

911
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,280
the yard and I'll just breathe 
it in. 

912
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,760
He'll breathe in that smell and 
I love it. 

913
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,760
I, I know I miss it when I'm not
around. 

914
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,480
You know, I volunteer with 
British eventing. 

915
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,600
So at least I kind of keep my 
foot in the door and, and help 

916
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,520
out and do offence judging and 
things when I can't ride. 

917
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,400
But and they ride, you know, 
friends forces now and again. 

918
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,720
But it, it's a lifestyle and, 
and we adore it. 

919
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:23,000
And those, you know, these 
animals are our family put in 

920
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,400
use of our income and a lot of 
our time and commitments. 

921
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,040
And for things like this to 
happen, it's just, it's 

922
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,040
completely devastating. 
Yeah, I have. 

923
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:40,600
I mean, I have no words. 
It's just, it's very, it's, you 

924
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,200
know, when you lose that, you 
lose an animal. 

925
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,920
It the huge level of grief. 
I don't think people ever, ever 

926
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,400
get over it. 
I, I often find as well, when 

927
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,880
more recent stories get shared 
on social media, I see the same 

928
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:56,600
owners popping up and, you know,
just, it's like they've had, 

929
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,000
they have that emotion all over 
again. 

930
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,680
It's like it's happened to them 
all over again because it's so 

931
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,440
real and it's just a reminder of
of what happened to them 

932
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,200
personally. 
So yeah. 

933
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,160
So it must be really, really 
tough. 

934
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,800
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 
And you have put so much time, 

935
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,960
love, energy, effort into your 
social media campaigns and your 

936
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:25,040
signs and raising awareness and 
you have won an award. 

937
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,920
Can you tell us how that came 
about, Nathalie? 

938
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,480
Because it's so deserved and 
huge congratulations. 

939
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,480
Thank you. 
Yeah, it's completely 

940
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,400
blindsided. 
I got contacted by the VHS and 

941
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,240
they were so a couple of people 
that kind of equine welfare 

942
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,880
campaign officers that work 
within the VHS have been in 

943
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,440
touch with me over the years. 
And we've been kind of sharing 

944
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,720
information both and trying to 
kind of work out tactics 

945
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,280
ourselves and things. 
And we even kind of fed into the

946
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,000
video that they created a while 
ago to raise awareness and on 

947
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,160
what might be the best way to 
kind of go about that. 

948
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,240
So we've had, you know, we've 
had, we've had a really good 

949
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:04,720
relationship. 
And then they, they contacted me

950
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:08,360
and Hannah Johnstone, who, who 
was there at the beginning 

951
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,760
setting up the campaign to begin
with. 

952
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:18,080
And, and yeah, and we received a
net crying welfare award from 

953
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,880
Martin Collins via the BHS. 
And that was lovely. 

954
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,520
Popped down to the Newbury Race 
Course to receive it. 

955
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,440
It was, yeah, it was fantastic. 
I was absolutely blown away. 

956
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,040
It was really lovely as well. 
I was was seeing what everybody 

957
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,960
else had won an an equine 
welfare award, but that's 

958
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,080
different, voluntary work for 
various things. 

959
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,840
So yeah, it was fabulous. 
It was really lovely. 

960
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,240
What does it mean? 
Because obviously it's it's a 

961
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,120
thrill, isn't it, to win an 
award, whatever you are doing. 

962
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,240
But for this particular 
campaign, what did it mean to 

963
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,960
you to get that recognition and 
that acknowledgement at that 

964
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,040
time? 
I was really grateful. 

965
00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:01,120
It was, it was really lovely. 
I felt that I shouldn't be the 

966
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,240
one just, you know, sole person 
to get it. 

967
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,480
I made it really clear kind of 
on social media that it was for 

968
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,120
everybody. 
You know, it's, it's a massive 

969
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,160
campaign and everybody's 
participating in it. 

970
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:14,000
So I wanted to make it really 
clear how many people have been 

971
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,160
involved in this process and, 
and kind of fed into the 

972
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,560
campaign in various ways. 
So for me, it's, you know, it's 

973
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,200
a group effort. 
Everybody helped us kind of get 

974
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,360
there. 
But yeah, so grateful, so 

975
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,120
grateful recognition. 
And what was it like meeting 

976
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,200
Martin Clunes? 
We're all going to. 

977
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,880
Ask if it's class track, if it's
class track. 

978
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,880
I mean, he's lovely. 
So, so sweet, so friendly. 

979
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,320
Yeah, my mum joined me and she 
was very tough to meet him as 

980
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:40,640
well. 
I think he's a bit of an idol 

981
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,560
for her. 
But yeah, I know. 

982
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,200
It was really nice. 
Yeah, he's very, very. 

983
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:45,480
He's top bloke. 
He's really lovely. 

984
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:52,280
And just thinking as well about 
the word community at a time 

985
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,520
when, you know, things are very 
insular. 

986
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,200
We are all behind screens. 
Lots of us are working from 

987
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,920
home. 
We've got these phones that are 

988
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:07,840
now computers and cameras and 
everything all in one that we we

989
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,880
can't seem to live without. 
What does the community mean to 

990
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,920
you that you have built, you 
know from the ground up, from 

991
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,800
lockdown, that they're online 
waiting to share posts and 

992
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,640
sharing your videos and to 
spread the word and to rally 

993
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,680
behind and support each other. 
How does that feel to have built

994
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,520
something online when actually 
social media gets a negative 

995
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,600
reputation for a lot these days?
But this is doing something and 

996
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,600
making something great. 
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's 

997
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,800
great. 
I'm, you know, I'm really proud 

998
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,920
of of kind of what we achieved 
and, and raising that awareness.

999
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,880
I mean, our kind of following 
grew over the years. 

1000
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,080
So it's, you know, it's really 
nice to be involved in that. 

1001
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,800
And as I say, you know, I I'm, 
I'm just really proud of 

1002
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,960
everyone kind of individual 
contributions in that we had so 

1003
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,080
many people kind of come forward
and volunteer for various 

1004
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,280
things. 
I mean, there was a chap that 

1005
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,240
created some telegraphic designs
for us just just in his free 

1006
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,000
time, just because he he could. 
She was so sweet. 

1007
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,120
A guy called Kevin Wilshire. 
And, you know, everybody's kind 

1008
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,480
of contribution just played a 
part in this and it was fab. 

1009
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,480
Yeah, You know, I'm, I'm just 
really grateful of the kind of 

1010
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,520
community and everybody doing 
what they could do. 

1011
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,440
Thank you so much for listening 
to and watching Curious 

1012
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,000
Equestrian. 
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1013
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,280
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1014
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,360
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1015
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,160
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Subscribe to us on whatever 

1016
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,040
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1017
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,480
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1018
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,800
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1019
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,640
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1020
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:50,960
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