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Jessica, welcome to Curious 
Equestrian. 

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Now talk us through what is the 
difference between modern 

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dressage and classical dressage?
So there's quite a few 

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differences. 
Really. 

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The classical dressage is more 
of a way of training so that the

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horse can be the best possible 
version of itself. 

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It sort of focuses on natural 
movement and things that they do

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in the wild, but it's more 
developed form of that, whereas 

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modern dressage is a little bit 
of like a cookie cutter type 

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thing, so you have to fit the 
mould and do the movements 

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exactly how the judges want you 
to do them. 

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I think a connection is a big 
part for you of classical 

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dressage, yeah. 
Why do you think connection has 

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been lost along the way? 
I think again, because you have 

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to fit this mold and it's, you 
know, everyone is different and 

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everybody trains differently and
feels emotions differently and 

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things like that. 
So to put people and horses into

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one box just isn't, you know, 
it's not going to work long 

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term. 
So you lose that harmony along 

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the way of this is who they are 
and the connection they have and

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you want to show that. 
And sometimes in modern dress 

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size, you can't do that. 
We mentioned connection, but 

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what other aspects do you think 
modern dressage has lost along 

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the way since hulking him back 
to classical dressage roots? 

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I think nowadays it looks very 
mechanical and again comes down 

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to harmony and connection and 
who those people and who those 

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horses really are. 
And sometimes I don't think it 

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showcases the beauty of what 
horses are supposed to be like 

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naturally, rather than all this 
boxy movement and things being 

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really rigid. 
Whereas classical dressage is 

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very this horse is nice for this
reason. 

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Can we make it look better in a 
natural way rather than it being

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mechanical? 
It's interesting, isn't it? 

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If you think of classical 
dressage as being like you say, 

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full of harmony and connection 
and being smooth and like a 

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dance, and then as you describe 
it, becoming more technical and 

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mechanical and rigid and being 
marked on what they see. 

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Why do you think that that 
connection was lost over the 

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generations through the years? 
Why do you think that wasn't 

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prioritized in the marking 
scheme? 

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I think it's more down to 
fashion, which is awful to say, 

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but I think some people if they 
see these movements like the PF 

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and the passage and the changes 
and they go, how can we make 

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this exceptional? 
And people see it and it just 

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evolves into something that 
isn't natural and it's just what

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people like to see. 
And even non horsey people that 

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don't understand what they're 
watching, they'll look at it and

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go, that looks amazing. 
Whereas it's not sometimes 

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functional in a way. 
So it's not a natural movement 

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sometimes. 
And yeah, it does look amazing 

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to the eye, but you know, it's 
not what horses weren't meant to

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put her to be pfing in the 
field. 

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It's not. 
You know what I mean? 

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And just describe for us, 
Jessica, when you talk about 

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movements looking naturally, I'm
guessing and assuming, but tell 

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me if I'm wrong, that you train 
without sort of harsh tacks and 

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without force. 
So can you just describe how you

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train those particular movements
without tack actually forcing 

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the horse to stand or position 
itself in a particular way? 

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Yeah. 
So it's more it's sort of about 

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not pushing them to make them do
it. 

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You want the horse to want to do
it itself, you know, whether 

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it's with treats or clickers or 
rewards of some description, the

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horse is going, oh, actually 
this is fun and this is 

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something that I want to do 
rather than it being like a nine

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to five work life. 
And the horses get into this 

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routine of, oh, I wake up, I 
have a breakfast and then I go 

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and work. 
And, you know, sometimes you 

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bring them out and they don't 
want to do it. 

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And you can't train a horse like
that. 

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You know it needs to want to do 
it for you. 

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And you know, once it realizes 
it's fun, then it'll give you a 

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lot more than you just tapping 
it and making it do something. 

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And talk us through, you said 
that horses aren't sort of made 

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to PF in the field. 
So talk us through some of the 

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movements that make up classical
dressage that perhaps differ to 

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modern dressage. 
What movements do you work on? 

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Yeah, so there's, well, dressage
is based on lateral work and 

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getting judged for certain parts
of lateral work. 

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It was all made many moons ago 
for the cavalry and bull 

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fighting, especially with the 
police, Tanos and the Spanish 

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horses, the PR ES, they were 
movements made to farm. 

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They've got to be nimble, 
they've got to move sideways and

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like they're cans of pirouettes,
they've got to spin round if the

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bull decides to go the other 
way. 

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All those little things that 
were made for that back in the 

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day and then nowadays they've 
evolved into we're going to make

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a three or four minute dressage 
test and judge you based on what

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movements you make. 
So that's really interesting 

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that those movements had 
intention back in the day. 

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They were to move out the way of
a bull, and they were to spin on

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the spot and save space rather 
than actually, yeah, let's 

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choreograph a routine, 
essentially. 

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Yeah, nowadays we do it to music
and you know, it's all very 

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amazing what these horses do, 
but back in the day it was 

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either in the war, it's life or 
death or bullfighted. 

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So how do you go about coaching 
and training classical dressage?

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A lot of it is actually human 
based generally. 

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So I personally take on 
combinations of horse and rider 

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a lot of the time. 
I won't actually do a lot with 

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the horse at the beginning. 
A lot of it is getting over 

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people's mental blocks, you 
know, and they think that they 

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don't have a connection with the
horses. 

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And you can do a lot of things 
just by standing in a field with

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your horse and finding a 
connection and looking at ears 

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and mouths and little tiny 
things like that before you even

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think about getting a calves and
or a head collar on it. 

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And then, you know, you can work
with the horse. 

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Tiny little aids. 
A lot of these horses are a lot 

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more sensitive than you think 
they are. 

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And they don't need smack and 
they don't need anything like 

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that. 
It's just a tiny touch and you 

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get a reaction. 
And then you can piece horse and

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rider together and bring that 
harmony together. 

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And I love the words you're 
using, Harmony and connection. 

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But what kind of connection do 
you think classical dressage 

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promises horse and rider in 
comparison to modern dressage? 

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I think again, it's a tricky 
question because I can't, you 

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can't give a textbook answer on 
it. 

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It's whatever connection that 
person on that horse is going to

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have and I can't. 
A lot of what I hear day-to-day 

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is you're not suitable for this 
horse or this horse isn't 

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suitable for you. 
And really it's just rooted down

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to you don't know each other, 
you know, you don't know each 

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other's tells, and that 
connection can't be formed until

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they try and work together. 
And, you know, if you think 

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they're not going to work 
together before you've even 

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tried, you know, we're really 
going to get anywhere in that 

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sense. 
So yeah, it's tricky to give a 

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textbook answer, but you don't 
know until you try, and you 

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can't do any of the things that 
you strive to do if there's no 

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connection. 
That has to come first. 

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It's ultimately a relationship 
like any other, isn't it? 

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Whether you're not humans, 
whether it's with your pets or 

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your dog or your horse, it's all
relationship building. 

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And how do you do that without 
putting in the time and the 

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effort, which of course comes in
outside of the training arena, 

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doesn't it? 
Yeah. 

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You get a lot of people as well 
that like they don't even spend 

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time with the horses. 
You know, I get a lot. 

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They'll have grooms that work 
for them and you know, they 

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don't even, they don't feed 
them, they don't groom them. 

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They literally get on and expect
this horse to do everything for 

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them. 
When they've not done anything 

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with that horse, you know, 
sometimes they've not even put a

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head collar on it. 
And it's like, how can you 

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expect, you know, you've got to 
put the time in and put the 

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connections in to make that 
work? 

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And how do you get to know the 
horse without talking to the 

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horse and, as you say, without 
tacking up the horse, feeding 

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the horse, getting to know its 
quirks and character and 

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personality? 
Because that's when it's going 

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to shine through as well in the 
down moments, isn't it? 

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When you're outside of the arena
and either in the field or in 

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the yard or whatever it might 
be. 

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Yeah, that's another big thing 
about what classical dressage is

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about. 
And you know, like you said, 

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then when you're going out 
hacking and things like that, 

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you know, with the principles of
classical dressage, you've got 

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bad ways, you've got the rain 
back, and it's all little pieces

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again of natural movement that 
is brought out in classical 

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dressage. 
Wow. 

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Can you talk us through a couple
of other movements that has a 

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practical and intentional sort 
of purpose within within 

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classical dressage? 
Because that is exciting to 

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hear, isn't it? 
As the contrast, when you talk 

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about that choreographed 
movement that we see on TV at 

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these elite events that actually
to hear in motion when you're 

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hacking, you can use the 
classical principles to actually

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aid practical problems in the 
saddle. 

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Is there any other examples? 
There's lots of little things 

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that you come across, like 
passing cars for example. 

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You know you want to make sure 
you've got straight, you're 

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against the line and you don't 
get too close to the car. 

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You can move the hindquarters on
the forehand separately. 

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A really big thing that's 
becoming really popular at the 

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moment is that working 
equitation. 

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This is quite classical dressage
based, originated in Portugal, 

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and that is basically 
essentially a handy pony. 

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But for adults. 
You've got to go over a bridge 

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and you've got to do slalom 
poles. 

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And if there's a gate and you 
know these little things and it 

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reminds you of what you actually
do real life hacking wise. 

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So even little things shoulder 
in, shoulders out, you know, 

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turning. 
There's like a little pan in 

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working deputation as well where
you go around this tight little 

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chicken coop if you've got to go
through a narrow ride away or 

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something with hedges on either 
side, things like that, really. 

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Yeah, you really do learn to 
ride outside the arena, don't 

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you? 
When you come safe, you know, 

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post and rail fences and you're 
out with bushes and low hanging 

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branches and gateways were 
always terrifying, like you 

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mentioned, having to open and 
shutter gate rivers and 

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crossings and and all that sort 
of thing. 

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All those awful trees that 
almost knock your knee and throw

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you out. 
I remember the child right, 

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dreading those. 
It's those moments, isn't it? 

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And having the horsemanship and 
the skill and the moves to 

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actually negotiate them, that 
really makes a fantastic horse 

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and rider combination. 
Yeah, that's it for sure. 

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And why do you think actually 
just thinking about you, even 

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Jessica struggling to put into 
words that connection? 

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Because it's a feeling, isn't it
essentially that connection that

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we have and it's invisible to, 
well, we say it's invisible to 

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the eye, but I'm sure you can 
see a horse and rider sort of in

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harmony and In Sync and in quiet
communication with each other. 

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But it isn't essentially 
invisible. 

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And do you think because it's 
hard to define, therefore, 

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that's why it kind of gets left 
out of the marking process in 

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modern dressage, because 
actually a judge would have to 

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use maybe more than just a sort 
of technical booklet to mark it 

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and award it and sort of note it
down? 

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I think people think of it in 
like, because there's an animal,

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especially horses, like if you 
have, they say a dog is a man's 

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best friend, don't they? 
And that connection is seen and 

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it's understood and for some 
reason it gets lost within the 

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equine community. 
I find a lot and you know, it's 

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very much this animal needs to 
do something for me. 

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And it just seems like that dog 
owner connection, which is 

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exactly the same, you know, as a
pet essentially is lost. 

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And, you know, hopefully through
classical dressage and ethical 

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horsemanship, we can bring it 
back. 

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And what do you think it will 
take to save modern dressage? 

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Do you think there will be a 
collaboration between the 

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classical roots and modern 
dressage? 

226
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,560
Or do you think it's too far 
gone and too far? 

227
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,960
Out of rate no, I see it more 
and more every year. 

228
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,520
It is 100% getting better, you 
know, especially in the really 

229
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,720
big FBI world, it's really 
getting that and out they're 

230
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,120
getting, they've even made these
nose bands things that they're 

231
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,120
measuring the width of the nose 
bands and how tight they are and

232
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,720
little things like that. 
People are getting scored more 

233
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,600
evenly, especially if you watch 
the World Championships, the 

234
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,080
Portuguese riders with the loose
Tanos. 

235
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,000
Every single year that I watch 
it, it just boils my blood 

236
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,920
because I see the amazing 
movements and they are exactly 

237
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,120
how like the PF and the passage 
is exactly how they're supposed 

238
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,920
to be executed and they're 
getting scored half the scores 

239
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,920
that the warm bloods again. 
And it's just, you know, when 

240
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,040
really if you go back free time 
of how those movements were 

241
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,560
supposed to be done. 
They are doing them down to a 

242
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,320
tee. 
But nowadays it is getting 

243
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,800
better and they are getting 
scored more evenly, which is 

244
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,040
really nice to see. 
And hopefully it continues on 

245
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,200
that trajectory. 
Do you think it is sort of open 

246
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,880
conversation and education? 
What do you think is driving 

247
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,200
that movement to change, do you 
think? 

248
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:52,240
I think people are starting to 
see the more ethical side of it.

249
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,400
I see it more now with people 
less fortunate, you know, that 

250
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,680
haven't got so much and they 
haven't got the money to be 

251
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,840
going out getting these amazing 
trainers and professional 

252
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,640
people. 
And they're just trying, you 

253
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,440
know, and some of them are so 
good. 

254
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,520
Some of the combinations I've 
seen that I haven't got money 

255
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,240
and don't go out competing every
week. 

256
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,440
And I thank God if you went to a
few shows you'd be full of red 

257
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,600
rosettes, you know. 
But it's just that they don't 

258
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,600
get the opportunities. 
But I think, you know, slowly 

259
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,640
but surely it is becoming easier
for people like that. 

260
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,440
And we've got to talking about 
the sports. 

261
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,440
I've got to ask your thoughts on
this. 

262
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,760
Charlotte Duchard, in this week 
allowed to return to the sport 

263
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,880
and compete again after the 
whipping video came to light 

264
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,440
last summer, saw her band for a 
year. 

265
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,400
How damaging do you think that 
video was in terms of the 

266
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:49,560
nation's trust in dressage and 
dressage coaches and riders that

267
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,920
we had such belief in, you know,
years? 

268
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,240
I find it a real big shame, 
really big shame because I think

269
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,800
she, and this is just my 
opinion, but she is, has been 

270
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,760
one of the biggest advocates for
dressage all over the world. 

271
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,080
You know, she's one how 
countless times over and over 

272
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,760
and over again. 
And that was one incident. 

273
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,720
And unfortunately she's so like 
she should have known better. 

274
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,080
And I think she knows that and I
think she's traumatized by it. 

275
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,680
But it's one incident that I'm 
sure, and you know, I'm not 

276
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,400
naive enough to say that we've 
all been in that situation and 

277
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,440
we've all got frustrated and it 
does happen, you know. 

278
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,840
Did she deal with it the wrong 
way? 

279
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,480
Yes, of course she did. 
And unfortunately it was videoed

280
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,400
and thrown all over the world. 
And I just think it's a big 

281
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,320
shame and hopefully she's learnt
from it and she can move forward

282
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640
and carry on advocating for 
everyone in this in this 

283
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,000
community. 
It is such a shame because as 

284
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,360
you mentioned, you know, we saw 
her face and the leg grow as 

285
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,720
that sort of positive almost 
role model, didn't we? 

286
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:01,440
Very. 
Much so. 

287
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,800
And then actually sort of hopes 
were dashed and feelings were 

288
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,680
dashed as that video came to 
light. 

289
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,680
And the repetitive sort of 
nature of that book was such a 

290
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,120
shock to us all. 
You think that actually she 

291
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,480
could come back from that video?
Or do you think the trust will 

292
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,760
always be shaken for many? 
I think we're always going to be

293
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,280
wary. 
I don't think it's a bad thing 

294
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,880
because I think it has opened up
a lot of people's eyes to what 

295
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,920
does happen within the industry.
You know, a lot of people are 

296
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,880
seeing it now in the racing 
industry and horses being 

297
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:38,120
mistreated that way. 
I think it is opening people's 

298
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,600
eyes to that. 
We don't know what happens 

299
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,880
behind closed doors and you 
never do. 

300
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,360
All we see is what comes out in 
the ring and you've got to just 

301
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,840
judge it on that. 
But what has come out about that

302
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,760
does show again the 
repetitiveness, the 

303
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,600
mechanicalness of how the sport 
has become. 

304
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,920
And it all comes down to we got 
judged on that and it's turned 

305
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,200
into we have to run this so many
times until the host does it 

306
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,400
properly. 
And Jessica, how did it impact 

307
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,319
you in terms of your calmer and 
more gentle and connection based

308
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:15,760
training and coaching? 
Did you see that as an 

309
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,640
opportunity to show your 
audience on social media and 

310
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,520
your clients that actually there
is another way and it's very 

311
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,440
separate to the sites that are 
being seen behind closed doors 

312
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,720
in the professional sports that,
you know, in the elite game? 

313
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,880
Oh yeah, in a very selfish way. 
If anything, it helped me a lot 

314
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,240
because I had a lot of people 
come to me after that, 

315
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,080
especially in the last few 
weeks. 

316
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,720
Now she's come back, I've had a 
real influx and clients of 

317
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,240
people wanting it to do it the 
right way that have competed in 

318
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,800
the past and found that they're 
just going around in circles and

319
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,520
that they hit a brick wall. 
And that is when problems start 

320
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,360
and the mechanicalness comes in 
and they've just run it and run 

321
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:56,640
it and they're not going 
anywhere. 

322
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,320
And they realize, oh wait, 
actually I might need to learn 

323
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,920
all my horses first before I try
and do this. 

324
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,680
And it helps so much down the 
line. 

325
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,040
And just for contrast, for those
who have probably inevitably, we

326
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,880
all saw that video with, you 
know, multiple strikes to the 

327
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,760
horse, you use a whip in a very 
different way. 

328
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,040
Jessica, can you explain how you
use your whip but you know in an

329
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,200
ethical way in training? 
Yeah, so obviously she's got a 

330
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,520
lunge whip in the video. 
I do lunge with lunge whips 

331
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,840
generally nowhere near. 
Like I wouldn't even get close 

332
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,840
on the lunge. 
Especially the lunge whip itself

333
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,880
makes the noise for you. 
Like you don't actually need to 

334
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,400
connect it and if you do it 
would just be like a tap on the 

335
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,920
shoulder to get your circle 
bigger and then otherwise you've

336
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,960
got like APF whip and short 
dressage whip. 

337
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,600
So your PF whips a few meters 
longer than that. 

338
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,640
It's like a family, you know, 
the end of your whip is 

339
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,280
feathered for a reason and it's 
supposed to just tick all the 

340
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,840
hairs on the horse so that they 
you get a reaction. 

341
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,200
It's not actually made for, you 
know, hitting them with, so just

342
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,440
little tiny touches. 
And would you say it's almost 

343
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,840
like an extension of your arm or
your leg or guide rather than at

344
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,680
least something to make contact?
Yeah, definitely. 

345
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,880
And especially when, because I 
do quite a bit of backing as 

346
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,560
well, and breaking in and 
dressage ripped like that can be

347
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,800
really handy for connecting 
groundwork with written work. 

348
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,760
So like you can do all your 
actual work on the ground with 

349
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,080
your long dressage whip touching
the side, you know, just where 

350
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,200
the where the leg would be 
essentially. 

351
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,200
And then when you get the rider 
on board, you can use the whip 

352
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,600
behind the legs to help. 
And then two and two become one.

353
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,800
You know, when they realize, oh,
it's the same thing. 

354
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,800
Yeah. 
In fact, it's really interesting

355
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,920
to hear, and for those who've 
seen the video and actually may 

356
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,000
not know as much about classical
dressage, to just hear the 

357
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,920
difference and know that 
actually it doesn't need to be, 

358
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,960
you know, a forceful no in any 
way, shape or form. 

359
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,240
You shouldn't be scared. 
Of it at all that, you know, 

360
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,000
from the beginning, one of the 
first things I do is wipe it all

361
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,240
over them and down their legs 
and you know, make sure 

362
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,920
specifically that they're not 
scared of it because that 

363
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,200
doesn't help anyone. 
You know if they're scared of it

364
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,800
and then you get on board and 
they're like, oh God, she's got 

365
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,920
a stick. 
What we're going to do, you 

366
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,760
straight away put in that fair 
in and the whole point is for 

367
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,600
the horse to trust us not not to
be scared of us because that 

368
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,480
will later come out in your in 
your more advanced movements. 

369
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,760
You know, if you in your PF, for
example, if your back legs are 

370
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,080
coming up really high and really
fast and rigid, you've lost all 

371
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,080
your harmony, all your balance, 
all everything that they want 

372
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,360
and address our tests. 
And talking about other harsher 

373
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,240
methods, we, you know, we had 
to, we had to talk about that, 

374
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,880
you know, that video and, and 
that, that use of the whip 

375
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,640
dressage has also been known 
with tension, pressure, force 

376
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,880
and roll ker, also known as 
hyperflexion, the sort of 

377
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,440
controversial training technique
in dressage where a horse's neck

378
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,400
is excessively flexed, often 
with force. 

379
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,680
Highly debated, isn't it, in the
field. 

380
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,000
I just wondered what you thought
of. 

381
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,320
That methods again, I think the 
over banding is really again 

382
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,040
it's gone into fashion which is 
really, really unfortunate and 

383
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,800
it's very normal nowadays to see
a horse going round over bent 

384
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,080
and it doesn't help anything 
really at all. 

385
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,400
If you look back through the 
years of dressage in itself, 

386
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,920
these horses have got a much 
higher head carriage, you know, 

387
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,160
they're still using their core 
and their hand quarters, but 

388
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,800
they're so much more comfortable
and they just don't, you know, 

389
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,560
these horses that are revent, 
they just don't look 

390
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,040
comfortable. 
Obviously, I understand some 

391
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,560
people get like problems with 
the horses being on the forehand

392
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,440
and a lot of the time the riders
not really doing it. 

393
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,360
And you know, sometimes the 
horse does overbend naturally on

394
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,240
its own accord and that's 
something that we have to then 

395
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,800
adapt to and fix along the way. 
But it can be done there. 

396
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,320
You know this also don't need to
go around with the chins on the 

397
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,200
chest. 
And how do you deal with bending

398
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,800
in the classical dressage field 
just. 

399
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,240
Like one of the main foundations
of the whole thing really. 

400
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,920
But again, it's all bringing the
nose to your toe. 

401
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,160
It's you know, it's coming round
and it's bending round your leg 

402
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,320
and then straight away is the 
give afterwards. 

403
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,280
So it's a very elasticated feel,
you know, feeling like you've 

404
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:28,840
got an elastic band in your 
hand. 

405
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,200
So there's give and there's take
all the time. 

406
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,120
You know, it's not just you're 
going to come in and you're 

407
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:36,040
going to stay here and we're 
going to go on. 

408
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,360
It's, you know, it's very 
elasticated and it's the horse 

409
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,680
wanting to do it and the 
willingness to do it. 

410
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,560
And if you bring that horse's 
neck round and it goes, I can't 

411
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,880
do this. 
We then look at, well, has it 

412
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,080
got a back issue? 
Has it got a bit issue? 

413
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,800
Has it got a sad issue? 
Not you're going to do it for 

414
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,680
me. 
And that's that, you know, we're

415
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,200
looking for the horse because 
the horse can't speak to us, you

416
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,560
know, and it'll speak to us in 
little tiny, tiny ways. 

417
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,480
But does it got his ears back as
it grinding its teeth? 

418
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,200
Is it, you know, so there's 
there's much easier ways to 

419
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,520
listen to them than just forcing
them to do it. 

420
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,800
And some horses, of course, 
Actually naturally Carrie 

421
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,000
beautifully, don't they, with a 
natural bend. 

422
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,240
I know that Mommy, you know, 
when she's showing off in the 

423
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,760
field, even on the lunge, she 
will do it voluntarily. 

424
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,600
And it always makes her so 
happy. 

425
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,360
You know, when I asked for 
transitions and she's got a 

426
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,200
beautiful head carriage. 
And I think I'm not asking you 

427
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,000
to do that. 
You want to perform and show off

428
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,400
on the lunge in that way. 
And actually you're giving me 

429
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,000
that movement. 
And she'll do it when she's 

430
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,600
being playful and showing off 
and wanting to pants about and 

431
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,640
you think, wow, you know, that's
the horse at its most natural. 

432
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,800
And it's because. 
I always say to people as well, 

433
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,320
especially when they're wanting 
to train the higher movements 

434
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,560
like the passage especially, and
they go in. 

435
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,120
My horse is never going to do 
that. 

436
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,960
It can't do that. 
And I say take it somewhere it 

437
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,200
doesn't know and put it in the 
field and you'll see that it can

438
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,120
do that. 
It's like they're all capable of

439
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:06,440
doing it, you know, And 
sometimes the best passages you 

440
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,080
see are the horse loose in the 
field. 

441
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,280
And then you put all these 
contraptions on them and all of 

442
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,120
a sudden it's not so easy, you 
know, when you've got to ask 

443
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:18,520
yourself, well, what's the 
difference between this and me 

444
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,520
training it? 
And the only difference is, you 

445
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,520
know, they have a person there. 
And again, it comes back. 

446
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,400
Then the person's the one that 
needs the help and the mental 

447
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,560
capacity to go. 
Wait a minute, Am I influencing 

448
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,760
something here that I shouldn't 
be? 

449
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,600
Jessica, take us back to when 
you first fell in love with 

450
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,680
classical dressage and how it 
found you in your life. 

451
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,840
I didn't really look for it to 
be honest. 

452
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,960
It just kind of came. 
I was very, I was quite young. 

453
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,600
I was about 1415 and I went to a
classical dressage yard for work

454
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,760
experience and nevertheless 
really. 

455
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,800
And then I branched off on my 
own about a year ago and started

456
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,560
getting my own clients and going
right. 

457
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,560
Can I do this myself now? 
It was the beauty of it and 

458
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,680
seeing those horses go from day 
one, you know, from literally 

459
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,000
coming out the womb to then 
going on and being school 

460
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,400
masters for people to learn on. 
And it's just amazing watching 

461
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,800
it. 
And yeah, once you see it, you 

462
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,040
can't really walk away from it. 
What was it do you think, that 

463
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,160
captured your heart in that 
moment in work experience? 

464
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,160
I've never seen it in action 
before. 

465
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,160
What do you think sort of 
immersed you in that world? 

466
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,320
I think it's the same as any non
horse person watching, just 

467
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,800
watching it on the telly and 
they're going, Oh my God, how 

468
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,720
are they doing that? 
You know, how can that be 

469
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,920
possible? 
And then you Start learning 

470
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,000
little bit by little bit on how 
it is possible. 

471
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,920
And it's infectious, you know, 
and it's, it's like an 

472
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,320
addiction. 
You have to, you have to learn 

473
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,320
it until you do. 
You know, people go their whole 

474
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,680
lives trying to learn how to do 
this sort of thing. 

475
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,520
And the more accessible we can 
make it for people, the better 

476
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,000
it will be. 
Talking about making it 

477
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
accessible, what? 
How do we even begin? 

478
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,840
Because classical dressage does 
sound quite unnerving, doesn't 

479
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,480
it? 
As a title, it sounds like you 

480
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,360
need to know your stuff and you 
need to find new trends. 

481
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,560
And you know, where do you begin
on day one? 

482
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,400
With just yourself, You know, 
the average beginner and your 

483
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,560
horse by your side. 
What do you teach your beginner 

484
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,480
that wants to start out on day 
one? 

485
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:32,200
Again, it's really, really 
boring, but just just leading, 

486
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:36,320
you know, just leading around 
the arena and you'd be surprised

487
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,320
how many clients I go to and 
they can't even leave the horse,

488
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,600
you know, and they walk. 
When you stop, the horse should 

489
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,560
stop too. 
If you back up, the horse should

490
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,320
back up. 
You should be able to leave that

491
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,800
horse with no head collar on. 
And these people are getting 

492
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,320
barged around and the horses are
running into them and they're 

493
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,640
running off and they really 
don't care where they are. 

494
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,080
That is the beginning. 
Find that harmony with the horse

495
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,000
and find the friendship with 
them. 

496
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,880
It's imagine walking down the 
street with a stranger. 

497
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,840
It's a little bit like that and 
you've got to get to know them 

498
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,120
and then start moving the 
horse's body, moving the hang 

499
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,920
quarters, get your yields and 
little things like parking up. 

500
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,680
Really easy tricks that you can 
teach that form a really nice 

501
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,920
Bond Academy at the moment are 
doing a really good trick like 

502
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,240
summer trick program where we 
teach the little kids how to 

503
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,640
teach really basic tricks and to
inform that connection with 

504
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,880
their ponies and just little 
things like that. 

505
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,320
And then we can go on to the 
more complicated stuff when you 

506
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,800
get on the horse. 
But for most, it's that it's the

507
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,240
beginning that's right at the 
start. 

508
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,600
Isn't it interesting that you 
have to teach people how to lead

509
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,560
their horse? 
Why do you think you see so many

510
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,320
people that actually don't know 
the basics of horsemanship, 

511
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,880
essentially? 
I think it's overlooked and 

512
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,240
people jump and they see this 
amazing horse going sideways and

513
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,200
pfing and they think that it's 
not important. 

514
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,560
And it is so important, you 
know, And you've got to remember

515
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,840
the people that you see on TV 
and Nuno Oliviera and all these 

516
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,920
people, the people that they've 
trained for years and years and 

517
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,080
years and they've been there as 
a groom and worked God knows how

518
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,520
many hours a week. 
The groom industry in itself is 

519
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,960
something else to talk about, 
but you know, they've they've 

520
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,000
put the work in and they've 
learned how to do it right from 

521
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,160
the start. 
And you can't expect somebody 

522
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,960
that's never trained in it and 
never done it to just get on and

523
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,120
PF. 
You've got to do it from the 

524
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:29,920
beginning and work the graph 
really. 

525
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:34,400
And you can't drop that in and 
not extend Jessica, on the fact 

526
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,160
that you said the groom industry
is another whole kettle of fish.

527
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,440
What do you mean by that? 
That just the way grooms are 

528
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,160
treated in themselves, really, 
you know, it is very overlooked 

529
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,800
how hard screams work for us. 
And even the little things. 

530
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,880
That's so, what's the word? 
Physical, you know? 

531
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,840
And they're getting up every 
morning. 

532
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,120
It's stupid o'clock and mocking 
out fifteen horses and getting 

533
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,280
them all ready and running 
around like headless chicken. 

534
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,440
It's so, so hard. 
And it really takes a toll on 

535
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,480
people's mental health and the 
mental health industry, you 

536
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,600
know, in the industry stuff is 
really coming out now about how 

537
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,720
difficult it is. 
And again, then you get on the 

538
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,040
telly and you watch the the 
riders and the grooms have, no, 

539
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,120
you don't see the grooms on the 
TV. 

540
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,600
And they're the ones that have 
got the horse ready and planted 

541
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,200
it up and got up at 4:00 in the 
morning and done all these 

542
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,720
things just for the rider to 
then get on and do the get all 

543
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,840
the credit. 
That is a really interesting 

544
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,200
point to think through. 
You know, you see the rider you,

545
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,200
you know, on TV when you're 
watching who the owner is. 

546
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,400
Do you think that groom the 
groom should get credit in that 

547
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,880
one? 
100%, you know, the groom is the

548
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,160
one really who has the strongest
connection with that horse. 

549
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,440
The horse, the groom's the one 
that that horse is every 

550
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,960
morning, every night. 
If the horse is hurt or 

551
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,920
anything, you know, I've spent 
countless hours, like nights 

552
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,560
spent in stables and, you know, 
getting up at stupid o'clock in 

553
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,120
the morning for a fall that's 
being born. 

554
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,160
There's countless hours of 
connection and friendship there 

555
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,480
that is overlooked because that 
ride has done a good job riding 

556
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,720
that test. 
And it's like, what about the 

557
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,720
one that was there when it had 
an Abscess? 

558
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,120
What about the one that was 
there? 

559
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,000
What you know for all these 
little cuts and little bruises 

560
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,800
and gave him stretches when they
were sad and, you know, stupid 

561
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,440
little things like that and 
nobody sees it. 

562
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,120
And it is those little things. 
And coming back to you 

563
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,800
mentioning that connection's a 
huge part of classical dressage 

564
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,440
and how that's been lost. 
If connection were to come into 

565
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,520
the marking system in the future
of modern dressage, actually 

566
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,160
that should involve the rider 
taking on more responsibility 

567
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,760
for the whole. 100%, yeah. 
Again, it's become a bit of a 

568
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,920
privilege to to be able to say, 
well, I've got five horses and 

569
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,240
they're stabled here and they're
completely looked after by other

570
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,560
people. 
I don't have to do anything. 

571
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,440
I just turn up and ride it. 
And it's like, that is a 

572
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,440
standard that people are 
aspiring to get to. 

573
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,080
And I just don't, I don't get 
it. 

574
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,040
You know, like you should, you 
should get your horse and spend 

575
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,640
time with it. 
Is that not the whole reason you

576
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,080
wanted the horse in the first 
place? 

577
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,680
Yeah. 
And to see that connection under

578
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,920
saddle, you need to be with your
horse in those little moments 

579
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,280
and doing the everyday work. 
It's interesting how the 

580
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:28,120
position of rider comes just as 
someone who literally get mounts

581
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,520
up, gets on board in the saddle 
and off they go. 

582
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,760
And actually the the duties 
aren't part of that. 

583
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,640
And do you think actually to see
that connection in the saddle, 

584
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,960
that person would need to be the
rider, the groom, the confidante

585
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,880
of that horse? 
Ideally so, yeah, I think it's, 

586
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,000
you know, sometimes when you 
have that professional rider 

587
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,960
situation, sometimes the rider 
gets on and the horse goes, oh, 

588
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,280
this is the big guns I need to 
perform. 

589
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,080
I find it a real shame because 
again, then it goes back to the 

590
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,920
mechanical and the horse goes, 
you're my boss, I'm going to 

591
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,080
work for you. 
And it doesn't get that time to 

592
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,960
show that horse's personality. 
Every horse has a different 

593
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,560
personality. 
Some are more highly strung, 

594
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,200
some are softer when they have 
to fit that mold. 

595
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,200
And when that rider gets on the 
go, I need to do whatever I'm 

596
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,720
told here to be a good horse. 
Whereas they don't get the time 

597
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,640
to show that connection and that
harmony because they don't know 

598
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,480
them. 
And circling back to you saying,

599
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,400
Jessica, that you think actually
you can see the classical 

600
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,040
dressage principles sort of 
coming through and sort of 

601
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,840
bleeding into the modern day 
dressage and things are 

602
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,080
improving in terms of natural 
movement. 

603
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,560
You can see the marks coming. 
But mental health now is only 

604
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,400
just changing in the industry. 
Where do you think and what do 

605
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,920
you think needs big improvement 
in terms of modern dressage? 

606
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,160
I think the ethical, no, there's
a lot of silly roles in modern 

607
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,680
dressage at the moment. 
You know that you have to have a

608
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,240
double rattle after such a 
level. 

609
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,240
And I just think, you know, 
there's it would be so much 

610
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,200
nicer. 
We're not allowed to do tests in

611
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,920
a bit less bridal. 
You know, you are, you know, if 

612
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,400
it's not FBI or whatever, it 
might, whatever company it is, 

613
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,600
but you can't do it in a bit 
less bridal. 

614
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,760
You've got to have spurs at a 
certain level. 

615
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,000
And it strips away all that 
ethicalness of let this horse 

616
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000
be. 
And why should I poke it in the 

617
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,280
ribs if I don't need to? 
Why should I throw the double 

618
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,800
the amount of metal in its mouth
if I don't need to? 

619
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,000
And you are forced to do that 
when you get to a certain level 

620
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,400
and a lot of people don't want 
to. 

621
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,240
So that definitely needs to 
change. 

622
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,040
I think there are a lot of good 
things like after the test, they

623
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,960
show how emotional they are. 
You know, when they win or they 

624
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,720
do a really good task. 
I think it's so good that you 

625
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,400
see that tidy bit of connection 
after the task where they get 

626
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,200
really happy and they're rubbing
and they're smiling and some a 

627
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,880
lot of them crying most of the 
time. 

628
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,560
So that's really nice to see. 
And I think it is. 

629
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,159
It is getting better. 
Well, that is good. 

630
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:13,360
That is good news and good, good
to hear considering the kind of 

631
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,320
the social media storm, you 
know, around dressage at the 

632
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,120
moment. 
And talking of children, you 

633
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,719
mentioned the children and what 
you love is actually now kids 

634
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,400
learning groundwork and trick 
training, which is something, 

635
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,760
you know, when I was a kid, it 
was only ever if you loved 

636
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,520
horses, you go and ride in a 
riding school. 

637
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,560
There was never any, you know, 
horsemanship or groundwork 

638
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,480
training. 
Do you think that's where it 

639
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,760
should start for everyone in the
groundwork? 

640
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,760
And also, what do you think the 
impact will be for future 

641
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,600
generations, considering that 
kids can now start doing 

642
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,639
groundwork instead of just 
jumping on board and starting 

643
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,639
under saddle? 
How do you think that will 

644
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,080
impact the equestrian industry 
in the future? 

645
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,000
I think that's one of the main 
reasons why dressage is evolving

646
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:04,040
in such a nice way now, because 
the younger generation have the 

647
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,560
ability to start the right way. 
I hear stories that my mum tells

648
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,400
me all the time of riding school
she used to go to and these 

649
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,840
horses throwing her off and all 
these wild ponies she used to 

650
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,280
ride back in the day. 
It was very much you get on and 

651
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,680
you stay on till they throw you 
off. 

652
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,680
Yeah, and if you fall off, it's 
your fault as well. 

653
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,080
You get on, your fault. 
Now get back on and do it 

654
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,400
differently. 
Yeah, exactly. 

655
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,760
And, you know, they're taught to
pull those ways, to go this way 

656
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,120
and pull that way to go that way
and kick to go forward. 

657
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,440
And nowadays, there are places 
where kids can go and learn 

658
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,120
classical dressage at the age of
four or five. 

659
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,920
You know, I think the youngest 
was six years old on a Grand 

660
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,560
Prix of how to cancer. 
And he was doing like a really 

661
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,040
slow cancer on the lunge. 
And she was just sat, like 

662
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,440
giggling a little heart out. 
But it was done the right way, 

663
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,760
you know, And that core memory 
will stick with that kid 

664
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,560
forever. 
And then further down the line, 

665
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,040
when she gets her own horses, 
she'll go. 

666
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,600
I remember that Lucano that I 
rode years ago, and it's those 

667
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,320
little tiny things that really 
make the difference. 

668
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,280
And if you think what you're 
what you pick up on as a child 

669
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,320
and the fact you go into a 
riding school and the instructor

670
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,600
is actually asking you to kick 
to boot a whole, you know, this 

671
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,920
is a living, breathing animal 
that we're sat on. 

672
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,360
These are tiny children being 
told to kick, to push on, to 

673
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,040
move on to terminology is horse,
you know, give a real man. 

674
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,080
Yeah, yeah. 
When you think it's doing, you 

675
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,960
actually dissect certainly what 
was a big part of my childhood 

676
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,120
riding experience, various 
different riding schools. 

677
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,640
You actually think, Oh my 
goodness, the shock factor of 

678
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,320
that, that I was actually being 
told as a 7 year old to smack 

679
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,000
and to boot and to kick is 
actually quite shocking. 

680
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,000
So it thrills me to hear. 
And I'm sure there are many more

681
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,640
examples as well of, of all 
sorts of wonderful riding 

682
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,880
schools now doing it better. 
And like you say, teaching these

683
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,960
little tiny children these 
beautiful principles that will 

684
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,240
stay with them and impact the 
the field and the industry as we

685
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,880
move forwards and hopefully a 
lot of a more kind, kind and 

686
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,680
gentle approach and kind and 
gentle adults perhaps in the 

687
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,560
future. 
Yeah, I think the terminology 

688
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,400
has sort of gone that way 
because these kids are a lot 

689
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,880
smaller than us, you know, and 
they don't have the strength to 

690
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,960
do it. 
And it's a lot easier. 

691
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,200
Again, I've taught kids and 
adults the same, but a child 

692
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,720
will do exactly what you tell 
them to do, whereas an adult 

693
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,720
will overthink everything you 
tell them. 

694
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,000
Use your right leg. 
The adult will go, well, if I 

695
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,080
use my right leg, I've got to 
use my right hand and I've got 

696
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,520
to do this and I've got to do 
this. 

697
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,840
Where as a kid we'll just go 
bang with the right leg. 

698
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,080
So they're a lot more, you know,
straight away. 

699
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,960
So if you say to a child now 
kick, kick, they're going to 

700
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,640
kick and they kick quite hard, 
you know, or if you've got a 

701
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,200
tiny little child on a very, 
very big pony, you know, that 

702
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,760
horse isn't going to feel like 
the same as if I would get on 

703
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,160
and kick it at that, you know? 
So the terminology definitely 

704
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,080
needs to change in a way that 
the kids understand. 

705
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,600
You know, a lot of kids don't 
even know what a bit is made out

706
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,520
of, you know, you say to a kid, 
but you know what this is And 

707
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:13,840
they go no. 
And when you tell them it's 

708
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,960
metal, they're horrified and 
they don't want to touch the 

709
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,520
horse's mouth after that. 
So the kids have the ethicalness

710
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,920
already built in of I don't want
to hurt this animal. 

711
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,240
But again, because the bits are 
the normality, and pulling to go

712
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:31,120
left and pulling to go right is 
the normality, they lose that 

713
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,680
ethicalness along the way. 
Yeah, and if you think how? 

714
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,640
You know, when you start a 
riding school, certainly, again,

715
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,080
this is from, you know, my 
childhood, you're past a whip if

716
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,280
you've not got your own from, 
you know, the bucket in the 

717
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,560
corner and you're told that's, 
you know, if, if the horse needs

718
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,520
an extra push, you're told to 
give it a smack. 

719
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,920
And if you think you're sort of 
gearing up these children, tiny 

720
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,280
children with whips to hit the 
horse with. 

721
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,440
And again, it's all the way in 
which the whip is used, like you

722
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,120
mentioned, if it's a slight 
touch. 

723
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,040
But if you're being told to 
smack the horse, you're 

724
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,520
literally, you know, gearing up 
these children to use a whip in 

725
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,640
that way that then they will 
grow up continuing potentially 

726
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,440
to use the whip in that way. 
They're being told what to do. 

727
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,480
Like you say, many children will
obey that. 

728
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:16,880
I remember vividly as a as a 
little child being given it and 

729
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,440
thinking, why do I need a whip? 
And I actually refused to whip 

730
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,360
the horse and would, but I was 
quite a sort of forthright, a 

731
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,160
very strong minded, strong 
willed little child and I would 

732
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,360
not use it. 
And I was told off for clicking 

733
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,640
like a chicken, that if I 
clocked, the horse would respond

734
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,480
to my voice rather than me 
whipping. 

735
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:36,600
So I would do that and the 
instructor would go around, 

736
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,720
stop, you know, in that awful, 
you know, shouty voice that's 

737
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:44,720
straining their vocals as they 
do like, yeah, the voice go. 

738
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,880
That's what I'm. 
Doing yeah exactly the voice 

739
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,400
does the work and and how 
wonderful actually to have a 

740
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,040
different experience hopefully 
now that you can use your voice 

741
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,320
as a child instead of just 
resorting to a smack behind the 

742
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,520
leg again the whip even and 
it's. 

743
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,640
Self is so modernized nowadays, 
like every single child has one 

744
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,520
of those little show jumping 
whips with the stars on the end.

745
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,440
And it's so normalized in the 
industry as this is a piece of 

746
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,160
kit that you have to have if 
you're going to get anywhere in 

747
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,840
the industry. 
And if you don't have a stick, 

748
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,840
that's just ridiculous. 
And in reality, we don't need 

749
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,040
them half the time. 
And again, why would you need 

750
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,240
this? 
Stick with this. 

751
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,440
Flapper on it. 
That's not going to there's no 

752
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,880
precision in that. 
There's no small aid in that. 

753
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,560
All you're doing is making that 
horse dull and they become dull 

754
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,640
to the leg and to the stick. 
And you know, the more you nag 

755
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,080
them and the more you kick them,
the less shot they get. 

756
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,200
And then you've got to add even 
more kit and more aids into 

757
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,960
there. 
And it's just, it's like a 

758
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,640
dominoes over and over and 
you've got to talk to us. 

759
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,080
About the horses you work with 
Jessica's, I know that you love 

760
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,600
Portuguese and Spanish horses, 
so tell us in your mind what is 

761
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,000
so special about those breeds 
they. 

762
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:09,600
They are just so athletic and 
they're just brave. 

763
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,200
They're really brave. 
You know, the Bluetano more than

764
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,920
the Spanish. 
I find the Spanish to be a 

765
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,480
little bit less so. 
Most of them are absolutely 

766
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,880
terrified water, which is 
hilarious. 

767
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,360
Yeah, it's the. 
Spanish. 

768
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,720
Really. 
Do not like water. 

769
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,280
But they're just, they're very 
strange. 

770
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,640
Could you know? 
Is it just something that's in 

771
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,640
them or I don't know if it's 
just because they don't have a 

772
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,880
lot of. 
Rain in Spain and it's a very 

773
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,880
hot climate or what it is, but 
puddles are a really big 

774
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,720
problem. 
I really don't generally like 

775
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:46,320
things on the ground or water of
any description, so I don't know

776
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,920
why, but there we are. 
Rosal Horses. 

777
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,600
Are very much used to it. 
We've got biblical rain outside 

778
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,120
the window right now. 
You put a Spanish sauce out in 

779
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,400
the rain. 
And it will stand there and 

780
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,600
shiver and act like it's, you 
know, it's going to die. 

781
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,160
And really, it's just not the 
way, is it? 

782
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,000
Oh, very precious. 
Yeah, they're very. 

783
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,440
Precious. 
Yeah, they're very flamboyant, 

784
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,320
you know, very flamboyant 
horses. 

785
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,440
They're very beautiful, but 
they're just nimble and they're 

786
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,040
so easy to train because they're
so maneuverable. 

787
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,680
You know, they can spin on the 
hind legs that God knows what 

788
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,840
mile an hour, the tiny touch of 
the leg. 

789
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,080
And like they're off and they're
waiting for you at every 

790
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,240
opportunity of what drames to do
next kind of do this. 

791
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,160
And especially like you'll see 
so many demos of horses that 

792
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,880
have been trick trained with 
classical dressage, you know, 

793
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,400
backgrounds and they're waiting 
and their ears are on them and 

794
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,640
they'll even do things on the 
road accord just to go. 

795
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,600
Is this what you want? 
And then the person's like, no, 

796
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,360
that's not I'm just stood here 
talking, you know, when you're 

797
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,280
Spanish walking around me in a 
circle. 

798
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,800
Oh, so that real? 
Willingness and a real yeah of 

799
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,600
working yeah come from in the 
breeds. 

800
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,200
Do you think, I think it's been.
Bred into them a lot, you know, 

801
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,360
like you look at the like border
collies for example, you know, 

802
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,080
and even from being a puppy, 
they want to work sheep. 

803
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,520
And my mum, she has a farm up in
Wales and they breed their own 

804
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,760
work dogs. 
And you see them growing up and 

805
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,840
they're already looking at the 
sheep and they've barely even 

806
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,800
left the house. 
You know they are border 

807
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,000
collies. 
Are incredible. 

808
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,200
We had our beautiful blue mole 
spy that we sadly lost a couple 

809
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,280
of years ago, but he made the 
grand age of 16 1/2. 

810
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,080
And as you mentioned, as a 
puppy, before we even had sheep.

811
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,160
He would round up the chickens, 
he would round up the Guinea 

812
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,000
pigs, their outdoor pen, try and
round us up. 

813
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,680
And they try and round up the 
cars, don't they, in the traffic

814
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,080
as they walked along the road. 
So it's that instincts just 

815
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,360
inside them. 
Yeah, I think it's just bred 

816
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,480
the. 
More we breed them, the more 

817
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:53,280
good horses we put together, the
more this intuition is bred in. 

818
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,800
And yeah, you see it right from 
the beginning. 

819
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,200
Do you think there is a 
snobbery? 

820
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,120
In the dressage industry still 
when you mentioned big fancy 

821
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,680
warm bloods and you mentioned 
they often will place higher or 

822
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,560
get better marks, is there a 
snobbery massive there is. 

823
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,720
People, especially the top, top 
ones, you know, people with a 

824
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:15,520
hell of a lot of money and 
they've bought their way in and 

825
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,840
they just, it's this 
entitledness of I've got this 

826
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,160
amazing horse that I spent 
£60,000 on and it has to win. 

827
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,640
And if it doesn't win, there's 
something wrong with the, with 

828
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,040
the way it's been judged. 
And how do you think we go? 

829
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,000
About changing that, do you 
think it will take years and 

830
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,400
decades to change? 
I think it will take years. 

831
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,680
And years, I think again, going 
back to Charlotte, what she did 

832
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,400
with Vallegro, you know, that 
horse was nothing. 

833
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,040
It cost barely anything. 
It wasn't supposed to be a 

834
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,960
dressage horse. 
And it went and it won as high 

835
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,680
as it could win, you know, So 
that was that had never been 

836
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,600
done before. 
So to to have somebody do that 

837
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,800
with a horse that's not supposed
to is amazing. 

838
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,120
So it just shows that anybody 
can do it. 

839
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,160
And I think after, after she won
on him, a lot of people went, 

840
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,040
oh, actually maybe we can do 
this again, another sort of. 

841
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,760
Positive association, positive 
memory and you know, value that 

842
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,040
we put on that pairing, didn't 
we? 

843
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,640
So many years seeing them come 
up through the ranks and as you 

844
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,880
say, you know, not a 
traditionally A dressage horse. 

845
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:28,400
Is it that any horse you know, 
do you think any horse has the 

846
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,640
potential to compete in dressage
to high levels? 

847
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,280
100% obviously you. 
Get the odd one. 

848
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:38,120
The biggest problems are medical
issues obviously, and you get a 

849
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,960
lot of medical issues that come 
from training these high 

850
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,120
movements over and over and over
again and again. 

851
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,600
If you lose the ethicalness of 
it and you put more strain and 

852
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,000
you train in this robot robotic 
manner, do you get problems? 

853
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,800
You know, you get suspensory 
problems from the horse being in

854
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,520
PF with its hand quarters under 
it so much. 

855
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,040
You get problems with the check 
ligaments and all these little 

856
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,720
things that go in horses so 
often because they're doing the 

857
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:09,960
same movements over and over and
over again. 

858
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,560
It's like if I went to the gym 
and trained shoulders every 

859
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,400
single day for a year, my 
shoulders would be ruined, you 

860
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,960
know, because you're just over 
that horse. 

861
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,800
Can't say to you, look, this is 
hurting. 

862
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,560
It's up to you to pick those 
things up. 

863
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,880
Yeah. 
Jessica, talk us through what we

864
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,840
can do with our horses, whatever
breed it is, in terms of 

865
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,840
starting today in classical 
dressage. 

866
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:41,040
You mentioned taking it back to 
basics, but what can we think 

867
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,560
about doing on our own without 
an instructor, without a trainer

868
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,680
that we can work on just 
together in the field or in the 

869
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,840
arena if we have one? 
Yeah, the main. 

870
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,360
Things are again your 
connection, your harmony, your 

871
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,720
friendship. 
Think you know if this when this

872
00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:59,520
horse looks at me, what is what 
is it thinking? 

873
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,840
You know, every time you go up 
to that horse's stable, is it 

874
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,360
coming up to you on a tree? 
Is it want to be your friend or 

875
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,240
does it stand at the back of the
stable and and not want to be 

876
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:09,760
involved? 
You know little things when you 

877
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,360
put the saddle on, are they 
happy? 

878
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,760
Do they want the saddle on? 
You know, 9 times out of 10, you

879
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,680
walk up to a horse with a saddle
on the ears, go flat back and 

880
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,240
you you go this horse doesn't 
actually want to be tacked up 

881
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:24,480
today, but you do it anyway. 
And it's just listen to them 

882
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,760
and, you know, think, do they 
want to do this with me or am I 

883
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,120
just pushing myself on them? 
And what do you? 

884
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,280
Hope to see in the next few 
years, obviously big shifts over

885
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,160
the last year, particularly with
social media and the way that 

886
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,760
all sorts of different videos 
are coming to light as well. 

887
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,240
Not just the Charlotte Dujard in
video, but all sorts of other 

888
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:47,200
professionals we've seen. 
What do you hope for the next 

889
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,560
few years in terms of the 
professional dressage sphere, 

890
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,240
the way that the equestrian 
industry is moving? 

891
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,240
What changes would you like to 
see and what hopes and dreams do

892
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:58,440
you have for the classical 
dressage world? 

893
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,800
I'd like to see it get. 
Less clicky. 

894
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,680
I find it really clicky and you 
know, there's only so many 

895
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,960
people that get into the 
industry professionally, make it

896
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:12,440
accessible, you know, get things
for kids around the world and 

897
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,520
grow the next generation and 
just allow people to do it 

898
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,480
without having to spend loads of
money. 

899
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,640
Because especially the way the 
world's going at the moment and 

900
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,840
none of us have got any money, 
you know, and I know it's not 

901
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,840
just me saying that, a lot of 
people are saying that and it 

902
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,840
makes it really difficult to 
have opportunities to do things.

903
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,880
So definitely that and bring the
ethicalness back, you know, let 

904
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:42,280
us ride bitless, let us ride 
bareback, let us, you know, they

905
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,840
were a Grand Prix test without 
spurs and a double bridle. 

906
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,680
You know, let the beauty of it 
come through without all the 

907
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,720
gear. 
I love it A. 

908
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,640
Call to action from Jessica 
Kenyon Jess has been. 

909
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,560
Brilliant. 
You're going to stick around 

910
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,000
hopefully and answer a few 
listener questions in a moment 

911
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,720
in our membership zone. 
So you'll have to join us to 

912
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:04,000
come behind the scenes if you 
want to carry on watching our 

913
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,640
interview. 
But for now, for those 

914
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,360
listening, Jessica, who want to 
get in touch, get your help with

915
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,480
classical dressage and starting 
today, how can they do that? 

916
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,480
So Facebook is the biggest. 
One Jessica Kenyon's classical 

917
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,320
dressage. 
There's a group on page on 

918
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,720
there, Instagrams the same and 
just send me a message and we 

919
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:21,800
can get started. 
Amazing. 

920
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,200
Thank you so much for coming on 
Curious Equestrian.