1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,080 How we currently manage horses as a whole, you know, we just 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:09,720 took them out in a paddock and don't really think about what 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,680 what the consequences are for the soil gynecologist. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:19,800 It's basically a product of me marrying my 2 passions together 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,360 and also realizing that there's a huge gap between all the 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,920 knowledge, research and information that's out there and 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,640 actually applying it in in real life and actually bringing it to 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,960 people who are actually managing their horses. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,560 Whatever decision we'd be making about the land, is that going to 10 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:42,880 be beneficial to the horse or not? 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,880 So I'm always looking for opportunities to give the horse 12 00:00:48,270 --> 00:00:51,310 a chance to be more natural because horses naturally would 13 00:00:51,870 --> 00:00:55,030 be on these huge. Open Plains and what can we do? 14 00:00:55,030 --> 00:00:58,670 What one thing can we do now, immediately or later today, 15 00:00:58,670 --> 00:01:02,270 Annabelle, to immediately improve our paddock, not only 16 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:04,910 for our horses, but for the Land's sake as well. 17 00:01:10,470 --> 00:01:14,190 Hello and welcome to the Curious Equestrian Podcast with me, Anna 18 00:01:14,190 --> 00:01:16,430 Louise. And today's guest is Annabel 19 00:01:16,430 --> 00:01:19,660 Holmes. An equine ecologist, Annabel has 20 00:01:19,660 --> 00:01:24,100 been a lifelong horse lover and has been fascinated by animal 21 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:27,140 behavior from a young age, teaching her chickens to do 22 00:01:27,140 --> 00:01:30,620 tricks, believe it or not, and learning different styles of 23 00:01:30,620 --> 00:01:33,460 horsemanship whenever she wasn't in school. 24 00:01:33,740 --> 00:01:36,380 She grew up living next to a nature reserve, where she 25 00:01:36,380 --> 00:01:39,660 volunteered regularly and went on to study ecology at 26 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:42,580 university. Annabel's worked in conservation 27 00:01:42,580 --> 00:01:45,740 and consultant ecology sectors ever since. 28 00:01:46,110 --> 00:01:48,950 And has also studied equine behavior and nutrition. 29 00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:51,470 Annabelle, we're thrilled to have you on the podcast. 30 00:01:53,070 --> 00:01:55,390 Thank you for inviting me on. It's really exciting. 31 00:01:55,710 --> 00:01:59,590 And recently, Annabelle started the equine ecologist, bringing 32 00:01:59,590 --> 00:02:02,990 her two passions together, nature and horses, to help 33 00:02:02,990 --> 00:02:05,750 people keep horses in the best way possible for the 34 00:02:05,750 --> 00:02:08,870 environment, for horse welfare and health. 35 00:02:09,070 --> 00:02:11,990 So Annabel, first of all, so we can dive into your world. 36 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:15,950 What does it mean and what is that chynaecologist? 37 00:02:16,110 --> 00:02:21,910 So chynaecologist, it's basically a product of me 38 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:26,590 marrying my 2 passions together and also realizing that there's 39 00:02:26,670 --> 00:02:31,270 a huge gap between all the knowledge, research and 40 00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:35,670 information that's out there and actually applying it in in real 41 00:02:35,670 --> 00:02:39,950 life and actually bringing it to people who are actually managing 42 00:02:39,950 --> 00:02:43,880 their horses. So you know, there's there's 43 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,800 particular courses and things that you can study, but if you 44 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,800 don't have the time for that and but you still want to do 45 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,840 something for your horses welfare and do something for the 46 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,720 environment. And that's where I come in as 47 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,640 the Acrin ecologist and I can sort of help you understand your 48 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:03,200 land and specific to what you need and what your horses need 49 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:09,400 rather than subscribing to a particular type of method of 50 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,520 doing things. I can help you find what's right 51 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,940 for you. And what is the day in the life 52 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:18,740 of an equinecologist like? So at the minute I'm doing 53 00:03:18,740 --> 00:03:22,780 things a little bit part time because I'm a mom to a little 54 00:03:22,780 --> 00:03:26,780 one year old. So I spend a lot of time running 55 00:03:26,780 --> 00:03:34,500 around after a tiny child. But in between that I'm sort of 56 00:03:35,060 --> 00:03:39,260 building up my clients. So I'm going out serving plants 57 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:44,920 and doing soil testing, helping people understand their land, 58 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,400 doing sort of free stuff. So I'm putting together a free 59 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,560 guide, putting together my website. 60 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,440 Yeah, just sort of building up a bit of a knowledge base as well 61 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,240 for horse owners. I'm hoping to be a bit of a hub 62 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,920 of information for natural horse care and things. 63 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,040 And what inspired you to start your journey in equinecology and 64 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,000 eco friendly Land Management practices? 65 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:20,480 And so I studied ecology at university and within that I did 66 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,120 some animal behavior things. And I think growing up is sort 67 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,080 of thought there was your horse in the field and then there was 68 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,610 nature and they weren't really intertwine that much. 69 00:04:31,610 --> 00:04:33,930 You know, your horse would eat some stuff out on a hack or 70 00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:36,370 you'd see a cool bit of wildlife in your field. 71 00:04:36,370 --> 00:04:40,770 But I sort of, you know, growing up, everyone, you know, Chuck 72 00:04:40,770 --> 00:04:43,970 loads of fertilizer on their fields or just took the horse 73 00:04:43,970 --> 00:04:46,130 out in the field and brought them in for the winter. 74 00:04:46,130 --> 00:04:49,450 And it wasn't really the done thing to mix the two. 75 00:04:49,570 --> 00:04:51,570 And I didn't really think that you could do that. 76 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:56,530 But then I started working in conservation and I realized a 77 00:04:56,530 --> 00:05:00,960 lot of nature reserves are using horses to manage nature and to 78 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,960 manage the reserves for nature. And I sort of thought, oh, 79 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,400 actually there is a way that you can keep horses in nature 80 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,760 happily together. And I sort of got more and more 81 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,840 into studying the behavior and and different courses like the 82 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:21,240 aquaculture course and horse track systems and then realize 83 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,720 that there is a way to manage it. 84 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,920 So they both work together and and produce some pretty 85 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,570 beautiful results. And just give us some of those 86 00:05:29,570 --> 00:05:33,090 examples of conservation horses and ponies, because so often we 87 00:05:33,090 --> 00:05:37,490 think of conservation. Grazing and sheep come to mind, 88 00:05:37,490 --> 00:05:41,010 whether it be at the National Trust or out on the mountains or 89 00:05:41,010 --> 00:05:44,370 on larger states. How good are horses at 90 00:05:44,370 --> 00:05:48,250 conservation? So yes, horses are actually 91 00:05:48,250 --> 00:05:51,410 quite good, Specially Hardy native types. 92 00:05:51,410 --> 00:05:54,250 They tend to be used on different reserves and the 93 00:05:54,250 --> 00:05:57,490 famous one would be the net rewilding projects. 94 00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:04,510 And they've got heard of X small ponies and on the one of the 95 00:06:04,510 --> 00:06:07,910 reserves that used to work on over in Wales and they've got 96 00:06:07,910 --> 00:06:11,670 some feral Welsh ponies. And what horses tend to do is 97 00:06:11,670 --> 00:06:16,390 they can trample things like bracken really well and bracken 98 00:06:16,390 --> 00:06:22,510 tends to spread pretty quickly and horses can get in there. 99 00:06:22,830 --> 00:06:26,070 They'll graze it as its toxicity reduces a bit later in the 100 00:06:26,070 --> 00:06:29,960 season, but they sort of flatten it all out and then you compare 101 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,160 it with the sheep, sheep and they'll come in and nibble down 102 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,960 the other bits that the horses don't want. 103 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,000 So sheep and horses work beautifully together and cows as 104 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:45,480 well to maintain grass and habitats and which are actually 105 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,600 really rare. And how do we change the 106 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,760 perception of of horses? Because I think so often we 107 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,900 hear. It be land owners or farmers or 108 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:56,340 estate managers saying, you know, don't want horses on our 109 00:06:56,340 --> 00:06:58,780 land or don't want too many horses on our land because of 110 00:06:58,780 --> 00:07:02,060 the poaching of the ground, they wrecked the fields. 111 00:07:02,260 --> 00:07:05,660 How do we change people's perception of horses on the 112 00:07:05,660 --> 00:07:08,740 land? Yeah, so horses have got a 113 00:07:08,740 --> 00:07:13,100 little bit of a bad Rep and it's it's not the horses, it's the 114 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:17,620 management of them. I think how we currently manage 115 00:07:17,660 --> 00:07:20,500 horses as a whole, not, you know, there's three people 116 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:24,250 doing, doing things differently. But as a whole, you know, we 117 00:07:24,250 --> 00:07:30,050 just check them out in a paddock and don't really think about 118 00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:34,650 what what the consequences are for the soil and the ground. 119 00:07:34,650 --> 00:07:37,850 And you know, we don't think about the weather and what that 120 00:07:37,850 --> 00:07:40,970 means for the horse's nutrition as well. 121 00:07:42,410 --> 00:07:47,410 So what we need to look at is how we can manage how often our 122 00:07:47,410 --> 00:07:53,490 horses are on certain paddocks, perhaps with rotating them and 123 00:07:53,490 --> 00:07:57,610 resting areas and also learning how to manage bare ground, which 124 00:07:57,610 --> 00:08:02,010 is the main problem. It leads onto weeds like ragwrts 125 00:08:02,290 --> 00:08:08,250 and and dark nettles and also how horses poo in particular 126 00:08:08,250 --> 00:08:12,490 areas sort of creates concentrations of nutrients and 127 00:08:12,490 --> 00:08:17,320 then they graze down big sort of lawn areas that deplete the 128 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,160 nutrients there. So then you get this massive 129 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,200 imbalance and then you've got a lot of repair work to do, which 130 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:29,960 is what I'm trying to help people to do, is to rebalance 131 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,000 it. And how easy is it to rebalance 132 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,200 it and change the way that we graze our animals? 133 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,559 And how do we write some of those problems, Annabelle, that 134 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,000 you were just mentioning like going in one area or grazing it 135 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,440 down as a lawn. So it sort of depends on the 136 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,760 field. Some fields, you know, a really 137 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,400 lush because they might be converted cattle pasture, which 138 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,920 contains these improved grass species like rye grass that's 139 00:08:58,750 --> 00:09:01,950 being designed to fatten up cattle as quick as you can and 140 00:09:01,950 --> 00:09:05,270 that leads on to problems with laminitis and things like that. 141 00:09:05,270 --> 00:09:09,550 So there's ways to manage that. Or if you just got loads of bare 142 00:09:09,550 --> 00:09:12,590 ground and you don't have much grass coming up. 143 00:09:12,590 --> 00:09:16,470 Although with this weather this year, there's many people 144 00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:18,110 complaining of that at the minute. 145 00:09:18,110 --> 00:09:21,630 I think everyone's just got a rush of whatever plants they've 146 00:09:21,630 --> 00:09:26,670 got because of all the rain and warmth, But there's ways of 147 00:09:26,670 --> 00:09:29,330 managing it. So you can think about 148 00:09:30,370 --> 00:09:34,130 controlling the mud. You can think about using 149 00:09:34,130 --> 00:09:40,970 different agricultural methods to to fix what you've done 150 00:09:40,970 --> 00:09:44,410 essentially. You can also use plants on your 151 00:09:44,410 --> 00:09:49,690 side, so there's certain plants that are slightly parasitic on 152 00:09:49,690 --> 00:09:54,610 these grasses and that can sort of hold them back a bit and give 153 00:09:54,610 --> 00:09:57,620 a chance for other plants to take over. 154 00:09:57,660 --> 00:09:59,780 There's lots of different things, and it sort of depends 155 00:09:59,780 --> 00:10:03,940 on your soil and your plants and what you want from it as well. 156 00:10:04,380 --> 00:10:07,020 And that chronicology involves finding that Bunce that you 157 00:10:07,020 --> 00:10:10,540 mentioned between horse welfare and environmental 158 00:10:10,540 --> 00:10:14,300 sustainability. How does your approach address 159 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:17,780 and bring together both of those approaches? 160 00:10:18,590 --> 00:10:23,670 So I always make sure that I'm putting the horses welfare and 161 00:10:23,830 --> 00:10:29,390 the the Land's welfare 1st. And that's sort of how I look at 162 00:10:29,390 --> 00:10:33,750 it as I think is this whatever decision we'd be making about 163 00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:38,070 the land, is that going to be beneficial to the horse or not? 164 00:10:38,070 --> 00:10:43,070 So I'm always looking for opportunities to give the horse 165 00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:46,590 a chance to be more natural because horses naturally would 166 00:10:47,210 --> 00:10:51,210 see on these huge open plains of grass, they'd have different 167 00:10:51,210 --> 00:10:58,250 sort of terrains, they'd find trees and they'd go to water in 168 00:10:58,290 --> 00:11:01,010 different places. So it's it's about trying to 169 00:11:01,010 --> 00:11:06,650 mimic that and also benefiting the area that you do have 170 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:09,130 because we can't give them all that unfortunately. 171 00:11:09,290 --> 00:11:11,730 It would be awesome if we could, but we can't. 172 00:11:12,850 --> 00:11:17,540 So it's about mimicking that natural way of living because 173 00:11:17,540 --> 00:11:22,220 it's so beneficial for horses it it's good for their minds. 174 00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:25,180 And there's some really cool studies that have come out 175 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:31,500 showing that horses with better welfare have less accidents. 176 00:11:32,020 --> 00:11:36,380 And there's another one saying that they understand or learn 177 00:11:36,380 --> 00:11:42,660 their owners cues quicker than horses that aren't kept out in 178 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:45,540 their head. And so there's some really cool 179 00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:48,980 research coming out and I think it's really important that we 180 00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:52,540 start taking this on and applying it to what we do and. 181 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:55,860 What can we do? What one thing can we do now 182 00:11:55,860 --> 00:11:59,540 immediately or later today, Annabelle, to immediately 183 00:11:59,540 --> 00:12:02,860 improve our paddock, not only for our horses, but for the 184 00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:06,620 Land's sake as well that will have an impact on the welfare of 185 00:12:06,620 --> 00:12:08,980 our horse. And that you say we can't mimic 186 00:12:08,980 --> 00:12:12,660 the wilderness and give them acres and acres and acres of 187 00:12:12,660 --> 00:12:15,320 Rome and. Rivers to wander and paddle 188 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,680 through and mountains to climb. But what can do to change a a 189 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:21,800 square or circular paddock to make it more interesting for 190 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,960 them? And so it's all sorts you could 191 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,320 do. And even if you don't want to 192 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,160 just change your paddock, you can even take your horse out for 193 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:36,400 a little bit of a foraging walk and in hand and just give them 194 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,780 opportunities to just reach for some leaves out of trees, those 195 00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:43,420 wonders for their muscles, good stretch. 196 00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:48,420 It helps them shift their balance onto their hind legs and 197 00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:53,660 gives them a chance to do all this selection and and natural 198 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:56,940 grazing behavior. Because if you've got a field of 199 00:12:56,940 --> 00:13:00,980 just, you know, ryegrass and Clover, say that's only two 200 00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:03,500 plants to choose from. And if they're quite high in 201 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:06,590 sugar, it's sort of like being stuck in a sweet shop and you 202 00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:10,390 really want lunch. And so if you take them out, 203 00:13:10,390 --> 00:13:15,550 they can go and select all these useful plans for themselves. 204 00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:20,510 And then maybe longer term you could look at introducing these 205 00:13:20,510 --> 00:13:25,030 things into your into your own setup, which I can help with. 206 00:13:26,390 --> 00:13:29,990 I've also got a free guide that's coming out with the 207 00:13:30,030 --> 00:13:35,240 launch of my website that sort of helps you actually make a 208 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,120 difference to not just to the environment, to the to the 209 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,360 climate in general. And there's a few extra pointers 210 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,240 in there. So that will be coming out 211 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,360 hopefully and. Talking of our horses and their 212 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,400 paddocks, many horse owners strive to create a more 213 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,520 sustainable environment for their animals. 214 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,160 What a basic actable steps that we can take, any horse owner can 215 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,360 take to improve the paddocks ecological health as well. 216 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:09,960 And so if you can I would look into perhaps looking at whether 217 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,480 you can rotate paddocks and give the grass chance to rest. 218 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:20,210 And because overgrazing means stressed worse and that produces 219 00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:23,570 a lot of sugar in the grasses, so not only is that harming your 220 00:14:23,570 --> 00:14:27,610 horse, but also you've got this stressed out grass and there 221 00:14:27,610 --> 00:14:29,730 will be pulling loads of nutrients out the soil. 222 00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:33,050 You'll also be compacting the soil with the horse's feet on 223 00:14:33,050 --> 00:14:35,250 the ground a lot. So if you do have the 224 00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:40,210 opportunity to give give some areas, even if you're sort of 225 00:14:40,210 --> 00:14:46,080 using electric fencing to split up 1 past year, just as long as 226 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,360 they've got enough room obviously. 227 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,560 But just to give some grass a chance to bounce back, that can 228 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,280 actually make quite a big difference. 229 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,320 And to both your horses health and to the to the soil and the 230 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,320 grass. Health on a myth. 231 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,760 Bust something out of our If I may pick your brains, I've got 232 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,160 my horses on a track system and I've got an area. 233 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,080 It's marshland that we rested and the grass has got very long. 234 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,640 It's probably about knee to waist height in some places and 235 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,900 it's sort of paled out. Like, hey, you know, like hay 236 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:18,780 does. The grass is dried out at the 237 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:20,820 moment. They're on their grazed down 238 00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:23,900 sort of short and sharp sugary grass. 239 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:26,780 And I do want to rotate them and move them on to the longer 240 00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:29,700 grass, but some people have said that'll be an aluministic 241 00:15:29,860 --> 00:15:33,340 hazard. Is that true or is it? 242 00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:35,820 Is the grass safer because it's longer? 243 00:15:36,270 --> 00:15:41,190 And dried out, yeah. So it it obviously depends on 244 00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:47,910 what species you've got there. But it there is this general 245 00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:51,790 thought that you need to keep alamistic horses and and horses 246 00:15:51,790 --> 00:15:55,910 in general and really short pasture which is kind of 247 00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:58,790 counterproductive because all this sugar is in the base of the 248 00:15:58,790 --> 00:16:04,010 plant and horses teeth are great at actually getting the whole. 249 00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:07,090 So they're getting all of that sugar at the bottom. 250 00:16:07,090 --> 00:16:09,850 But if you're putting them in a pasture where they've got plenty 251 00:16:09,850 --> 00:16:14,250 of long fibrous grass, they're going to be snatching these long 252 00:16:14,250 --> 00:16:18,130 fibrous pieces. So like this dried out stuff and 253 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:21,570 and they're going to fill up on that which is actually low on 254 00:16:21,570 --> 00:16:24,290 sugar and they're going to feel, you know, they're going to keep 255 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:29,130 themselves full on lower sugar stuff, which actually is better 256 00:16:29,130 --> 00:16:32,130 phalaminitis. But obviously it depends on the 257 00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:34,210 plant. It also depends on weather 258 00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:39,090 conditions and all sorts. But yeah, generally, actually 259 00:16:39,410 --> 00:16:41,010 longer. Really interesting. 260 00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:44,410 And you mentioned the weather as an equinecologist, has your job 261 00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:48,090 become even more challenging this year with the incredibly 262 00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:51,330 changeable and unseasonable weather that we've been having 263 00:16:51,330 --> 00:16:52,730 through the spring in the summer? 264 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,200 Yeah. So this year has been wet. 265 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,640 But actually we need to start adapting to this because this is 266 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,400 just going to keep on happening. This is the result of climate 267 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,960 change and we need to really seriously think about what we're 268 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:16,160 doing with our land. In the UK, 40% of the the 269 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,160 landscape is grassland and it's something really tiny, like 2% 270 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,200 is actually natural. That figure might not be exact, 271 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:31,120 but there's so much of it is, is this sort of, you know, designed 272 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:34,080 grasses that just aren't suitable. 273 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:38,800 And if you've got a more natural grassland and that you're 274 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,840 grazing on, it's going to be more resilient to the conditions 275 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,400 because it's adapted. The plants are adapted to the 276 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,440 conditions that you've got and they're not going to be bringing 277 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,560 up all this sugar. They're not going to be getting 278 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,320 all these nutrients out of the soil. 279 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Or you know, it's it's it's a lot easier to manage in the in 280 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,960 the wet or in different parts of the world, you know, with 281 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,160 wildfires it's much easier to manage if you've got the right 282 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,960 ecosystem in place. And again, that also helps with 283 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,440 all the carbon being sequestered, which basically 284 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,480 means captured and stored back into the ground. 285 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,040 If you've got the right plants in, it's going to be 286 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,640 contributing to that rather than causing problems. 287 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,200 If you've got bare soil, you're going to be making it worse. 288 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,600 And so it's just about trying to get it right. 289 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,480 The better the biodiversity, it's intrinsically linked into 290 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,090 the climate. So get the biodiversity right 291 00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:47,730 and you're making a difference, the climate, and you're going to 292 00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:50,490 be able to tolerate it all a lot easier. 293 00:18:50,770 --> 00:18:55,010 And you can be all smug when you've not got it all where all 294 00:18:55,010 --> 00:18:58,610 this horrible grass and you're trying to keep your horse inside 295 00:18:58,610 --> 00:18:59,930 and you don't know what to do. And it's. 296 00:18:59,930 --> 00:19:03,730 Interesting you mentioned grass species is a key part of getting 297 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:07,890 this right now and about few times and just wondering about 298 00:19:07,890 --> 00:19:10,650 paddock grass. Is that play such a crucial role 299 00:19:10,650 --> 00:19:12,770 in the diet and well-being of our horses? 300 00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:17,260 Can you provide us with some guidance on selecting and 301 00:19:17,260 --> 00:19:21,340 managing certain grass species that promote both horse health 302 00:19:21,340 --> 00:19:23,940 and environmental vitality as well? 303 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:29,820 Yeah, so the best thing is to look at what is local to you, 304 00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:32,580 what you know, what species are local to you. 305 00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:37,420 So if if you're in the Highlands or up in the hills of Wales, you 306 00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:41,060 wouldn't want to be putting in the same grasses that someone 307 00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:46,350 down, you know down South of England or wherever. 308 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:51,710 So I'd say first Port School is looking at what is naturally 309 00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:53,870 around you. So you can look at local 310 00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:59,230 Wildlife Trusts or I can research that for you and then 311 00:19:59,710 --> 00:20:02,950 go from there with those. There are a few general species 312 00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:07,710 like there's a group called Feskies which can be quite good, 313 00:20:09,630 --> 00:20:15,660 but so if the more local. More nature related the better 314 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,780 and because they tend to be better for your horses too and 315 00:20:19,940 --> 00:20:24,660 and sort of standard off the shelf paddock mixes generally 316 00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:27,860 don't tend to be great because they are still putting that rye 317 00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:30,900 grass and Clover. In How do we change a grass 318 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:32,860 species? It seems like an awful lot of 319 00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:35,060 work. I know that my landowners that I 320 00:20:35,060 --> 00:20:38,380 rent from said that many moons ago. 321 00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:41,780 They. Cloud the land changed the grass 322 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:45,180 and I just couldn't imagine the work involved. 323 00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:47,340 How easy is it to do with Annabelle? 324 00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:52,140 And also how worthwhile is it? So first of all, it's very 325 00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:56,220 worthwhile, 'cause you won't have to worry about bring your 326 00:20:56,220 --> 00:21:01,100 horses in so much, and you're also doing a massive favor to 327 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,380 nature. I'd say it it depends on the 328 00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:07,140 site. If it's absolutely full of this 329 00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:11,180 ray grass, it can be a challenge to get rid of because it's it's 330 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:17,460 meant to be able to tolerate a lot of things, so it can it can 331 00:21:17,460 --> 00:21:19,940 be a bit tricky to get rid of, but there's different methods of 332 00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:22,020 doing it. There's this sort of organs, 333 00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:27,500 blazing chemicals and machinery methods and if you want it done 334 00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:31,470 more quickly and you just want to completely blank slate it, I 335 00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:36,550 wouldn't recommend that for for many people because that's quite 336 00:21:36,550 --> 00:21:39,550 aggressive. But in some cases it is needed 337 00:21:39,630 --> 00:21:45,830 and all there's the more gentle methods using plants and or 338 00:21:46,670 --> 00:21:52,110 using different grace methods to suppress the growth of certain 339 00:21:52,110 --> 00:21:55,590 plants and then allow the other ones to grow at the right time 340 00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:58,950 of year. So yeah, again, very specific to 341 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,400 to each area. And make the most of our little 342 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,400 helpers and they'll enjoy the process as well. 343 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,400 And talking of our little helpers, our horses that we all 344 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,680 spend most of the day thinking different things through, 345 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,480 working out different arrangements for our horses, 346 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,240 Should they be in, should they be out. 347 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,000 From my point of view, building track systems, me and my mum on 348 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,200 on 7 acres try and manage the land and trying to give the 349 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,480 horses that sense of direction and movement instead of being 350 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,110 within. Around traditional paddock that 351 00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:34,950 we see at most livery yards and at most you know in most fields 352 00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:37,350 that we that we have to manage as horse owners. 353 00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:41,390 But looking at behavior and welfare and assessing is so 354 00:22:41,390 --> 00:22:46,110 important as horse owners, and they're essential to ensuring 355 00:22:46,110 --> 00:22:48,710 that our horses thrive on land and the environments that we 356 00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:52,150 give them, what it indicates or behaviors. 357 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,200 We should be looking out for on a daily basis when evaluating 358 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,680 the world, being of our horses and whether they are happy in 359 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,240 the environment that we've given them. 360 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,040 Yeah. So a lot of the time there's 361 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,400 obviously there's the red flags, you know, looking, bolting, 362 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,840 aggression, all of those things you you'd want to check out with 363 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,520 the vet 1st and perhaps talk to a behaviour consultant. 364 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,840 And. But there's some things, there's 365 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,880 some signs, you know, like if they're chewing the fence line, 366 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,080 you know, they're probably lacking the opportunities to 367 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:34,440 chew as much as they need. Or if there's loads of mud up 368 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,120 and down one fence, then you can be pretty sure they're probably 369 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,880 pacing at some point. And if you went to a zoo and you 370 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,240 saw an animal pacing, you'd be like, oh the the welfare is bad 371 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:50,230 here, but in a equestrian setting we seem to ignore it. 372 00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:58,590 But it's good to pay attention to these things and then there's 373 00:23:59,310 --> 00:24:02,190 there's there's lots of little things but if there's any new 374 00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:05,150 behaviour or there's anything where you think actually this 375 00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:08,670 doesn't seem they don't seem relaxed and. 376 00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:11,510 What about if our horses are happy? 377 00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:14,440 So if our horses, maybe. It's very subtle, isn't it? 378 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,200 If we're not picking up on the fact that they're unhappy, what 379 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,640 signs will they shove that they are really happy and thriving in 380 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,920 the situation that we've set up. So signs that they're happy, 381 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,000 usually they're a bit more willing to do things you can 382 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,180 just tell a relaxed horse you know they're they're not on edge 383 00:24:35,180 --> 00:24:38,660 all the time. And there's also chance if 384 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:42,220 they're out in a head and they're just happily playing and 385 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:46,580 doing mutual grooming and and they're able to sleep properly 386 00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:49,820 so they can sleep lying flat out in the field. 387 00:24:49,820 --> 00:24:53,700 Horses take it in turns to sleep and while others watch over. 388 00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:57,980 So if they're kept on their own they they can't do that or they 389 00:24:58,060 --> 00:24:59,780 they might not feel comfortable to do that. 390 00:24:59,780 --> 00:25:02,260 So it's important that they get that sleep, so if they're well 391 00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:05,490 rested they'll probably perform better and whatever you're doing 392 00:25:05,490 --> 00:25:10,210 with them. And then there's also there's a 393 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:15,530 pain if the gram of horses. But also you can the similar 394 00:25:16,530 --> 00:25:20,410 similarities with stress as well, with the shape of their 395 00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:24,170 eyes. And there's some stuff I think 396 00:25:24,170 --> 00:25:26,050 it's. And sometimes it is just being 397 00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:29,650 taking the time to to tune into our horses, because I think we 398 00:25:29,650 --> 00:25:32,530 can all be guilty of, you know, busy work schedules. 399 00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:35,270 Social lives we've got to build in family time. 400 00:25:35,270 --> 00:25:37,590 We've got to rush to this appointment and get that done. 401 00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:40,590 We need to exercise the horses to make sure they're back out, 402 00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:44,310 but actually booking in that time if we have to, to just 403 00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:47,710 stand in the field and watch them and enjoy them and sit with 404 00:25:47,710 --> 00:25:50,710 them maybe. So for the other day I thought, 405 00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:52,790 I'm going to take just 20 minutes with my life that we're 406 00:25:52,790 --> 00:25:55,310 doing it, walk around the field. And we noticed that alongside 407 00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:58,270 the track, there's a big tree in there alongside the track that 408 00:25:58,270 --> 00:25:59,990 we wanted to include in the system. 409 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,560 So they had that natural shade and shelter and the in amongst 410 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,360 all the the crevices of the bark was Winnie my 15 hand Columar 411 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:11,880 cross all her fur where her her summer coats thickening up again 412 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,920 and and coming through again and and losing that coat again and 413 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,640 that that late summer coat change shift and she's itched it 414 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,800 out like blew the bear from jungle Burke. 415 00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:24,810 Into the tree and you can see I've not caught her doing it 416 00:26:24,810 --> 00:26:27,290 yet, but you can see the evidence left behind. 417 00:26:27,370 --> 00:26:29,970 There's been wedged in the little bits of bark and is 418 00:26:29,970 --> 00:26:33,250 sticking out from the tree, but sign that she's been having a 419 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:36,170 whale of her time and enjoying herself when we're not there, 420 00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:40,210 Yeah, that's brilliant. And also the the hair that 421 00:26:40,210 --> 00:26:42,370 you're leaving on that tree is obviously going to be used by 422 00:26:42,370 --> 00:26:47,050 birds for their nests and it's yeah, it's it's really awesome 423 00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:51,000 that we're finally thinking outside the box some well, some 424 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,920 of us and I would love it if more people thought like that 425 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,960 and just spend a bit of time. A lot of it is just standing in 426 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,240 the field. That's what I would do. 427 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,920 If I'm going out on a consultation, I'm going to spend 428 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,160 a few minutes just staring at the the whole picture and just 429 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,480 soaking in what what it feels like, you know, looking. 430 00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:14,490 They're birds and. It's I think it's ingrained in 431 00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:17,250 us from a young age or whatever age that you start riding, 432 00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:21,050 whether it's friends, horses or a riding school on holiday 433 00:27:21,050 --> 00:27:23,450 trekking. We're so used to thinking that 434 00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:26,850 actually the exercise part, the riding or the training is the 435 00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:30,530 enjoyment and is the activity. But actually, sometimes just 436 00:27:30,530 --> 00:27:33,570 being with our horses when they're at rest or at play in 437 00:27:33,570 --> 00:27:36,890 the field, and taking in time to walk along with them and 438 00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:41,010 investigate what they've been up to is just as fun and rewarding 439 00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:42,850 as. Being out and about with them 440 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:45,730 and doing exciting things that that we've done that we always 441 00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:48,970 hope to do with our horses. Also wanted talking along the 442 00:27:48,970 --> 00:27:53,090 lines of Track Systems, Annabelle, what other ways are 443 00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:57,570 there to keep our horses other than a circular paddock or a 444 00:27:57,570 --> 00:28:00,770 square paddock on the land. So for those, don't know if 445 00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:05,330 Track Systems came into our being or came into our realm and 446 00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:09,810 in the UK about 2017 or a bit before, but there are US 447 00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:12,190 constructs. In the hope that actually you're 448 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:15,390 creating more of a natural environment for horses that 449 00:28:15,390 --> 00:28:18,590 encourage movement. What other options are there for 450 00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:22,510 us as horse owners? Yeah, so track systems. 451 00:28:22,510 --> 00:28:25,510 I think it's really brilliant that they've started to catch on 452 00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:31,310 because our horses need need more than just this these square 453 00:28:31,310 --> 00:28:35,630 little panics. But there are other options I I 454 00:28:35,630 --> 00:28:40,750 like to think of it as there's you can cherry pick from these 455 00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:45,310 systems so there's there's a few other different styles of doing 456 00:28:45,310 --> 00:28:49,550 things. There's also aquaculture, which 457 00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:53,910 I really like and I'm a bit involved with. 458 00:28:53,910 --> 00:28:59,750 It's it's sort of looking at nurturing your soil and thinking 459 00:28:59,750 --> 00:29:02,830 like a grass farmer rather than a horse owner. 460 00:29:04,030 --> 00:29:07,350 But in some places that might not work. 461 00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:12,150 So I think we need to not get stuck in one particular style of 462 00:29:12,150 --> 00:29:17,030 doing things and thinking actually I can't do a full track 463 00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:21,310 or maybe I don't want to put in a full track because I want I 464 00:29:21,310 --> 00:29:26,350 want more grass and or if you want to do aquaculture but you 465 00:29:26,350 --> 00:29:29,950 think actually I don't know how to get it set up right so you 466 00:29:29,950 --> 00:29:34,030 can introduce many tracks between areas. 467 00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:38,920 So it's about picking out bits that you want and and it can 468 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,880 take a lot of time to study all of that. 469 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,360 So I hope that I can help people get to that decision quicker 470 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,000 because it takes time to put these things in place and it 471 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,320 takes time for the ground to heal and grass to grow. 472 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,800 Sometimes you go through a phase of some weird plants coming up 473 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,240 and you think, oh, if I'm doing this right, but actually if you 474 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,950 commit to it the following months and years, it's sort of 475 00:30:02,950 --> 00:30:05,470 snowball effect. It just gets better and better 476 00:30:05,550 --> 00:30:07,190 if you've got it right in the first place. 477 00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:08,670 And you mentioned earlier a success. 478 00:30:08,750 --> 00:30:11,870 Quick way to add enrichment to our horses, paddocks and tracks. 479 00:30:12,190 --> 00:30:15,790 Take them out for Hedro foraging walks and in them explore and 480 00:30:15,790 --> 00:30:18,190 then also bringing some of that foraging aspects in bushes and 481 00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:21,510 hedros back to our paddocks. With your help and assistance. 482 00:30:21,910 --> 00:30:24,790 What do you make of paddock enrichment toys that are on the 483 00:30:24,790 --> 00:30:27,390 market? Things like balls and swinging 484 00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:30,000 tools from trees. Do you think that it's worth 485 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,840 going along that those lines and and buying toys and enrichment 486 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,400 products or can it all be found in the landscape ourselves? 487 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,680 Like with everything, I think it's a balance and these toys 488 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,520 can be good, but if you've got millions in your fields, then 489 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,760 they're maybe not not so helpful. 490 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,040 And it's also important to introduce them carefully to your 491 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,080 horse. And there's a concept called 492 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,780 flooding, where you sort of expose a horse to something that 493 00:30:59,780 --> 00:31:02,140 they're frightened of until they stop reacting. 494 00:31:02,140 --> 00:31:06,820 And actually that's not helpful to the horse and they could just 495 00:31:06,860 --> 00:31:09,380 still be frightened of it, but they've just learned not to 496 00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:12,540 react to it. And so it's important to make 497 00:31:12,540 --> 00:31:14,860 sure that they're really comfortable with these toys and 498 00:31:14,860 --> 00:31:16,700 also that they're safe. They're not going to 499 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:20,890 accidentally ingest bits of rubber or whatever, but also 500 00:31:20,890 --> 00:31:24,330 they can be really useful if you've got a horse on box rest 501 00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:27,570 or you have to keep them in a stable because that's what your 502 00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:33,450 yard wants you to do. But there are really, really 503 00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:36,450 cool other options that are actually a lot cheaper than 504 00:31:36,450 --> 00:31:39,970 buying toys. You can use different flavored 505 00:31:39,970 --> 00:31:44,650 teas like peppermint tea to drink some hay in and hang them 506 00:31:44,650 --> 00:31:47,490 up in different places, have different hands around and 507 00:31:47,490 --> 00:31:52,110 about. And there's a bit of a fashion 508 00:31:52,150 --> 00:31:56,670 in the children raising worlds, which I'm deeply in at the 509 00:31:56,670 --> 00:32:00,870 minute of rotating toys, so they're not overwhelmed with all 510 00:32:00,870 --> 00:32:04,430 different toys at once. And I think that's probably, 511 00:32:04,590 --> 00:32:06,950 that could probably translate over to horses. 512 00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:10,070 Maybe it's good to rotate what they've got so they've got a 513 00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:14,030 little bit of novelty in their lives because it's it's really 514 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:17,720 important that we think it's not just that hour or two that we're 515 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,000 training with our horse, there's all that other time that you've 516 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,880 got. And we know that you've 517 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,400 emphasized support and project management. 518 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,880 Can you share a success story where your guidance, your advice 519 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,960 and support has led to a significant improvement in both 520 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,760 horses welfare and behavior, and also the ecological health of a 521 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,560 paddock in the land? So yeah, so at the moment, 522 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,480 because I've only just started up, it's everything's a bit of a 523 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,160 work in progress at the minute, but I'm working on a really cool 524 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,800 couple of ones. There's one where there's some 525 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:57,400 quite rare birds nesting, so we're working on setting up. 526 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,520 So the birds still have their habitat, but they, the owners 527 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,840 can still get what they want from the land and the horses can 528 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,440 still get enough grass because at the minute it's more, there's 529 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,040 more other plants rather than grass. 530 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,990 And then in one of my previous roles in consultancy, ecological 531 00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:23,110 consultancy, there was a massive housing projects that I was 532 00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:28,590 involved with and we moved thousands and thousands of newts 533 00:33:28,590 --> 00:33:34,390 and toads and as the little creatures as many as we could in 534 00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:37,190 the old bucket traps and we relocated them over this sort of 535 00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:41,230 purpose built. It's called a mitigation area. 536 00:33:41,230 --> 00:33:43,670 So. So it's sort of an untouched 537 00:33:43,670 --> 00:33:47,110 area that's specifically for all the creatures that have been 538 00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:51,390 displaced by the housing. And it was really magical just 539 00:33:51,390 --> 00:33:55,150 seeing that just come to life because I was I was working 540 00:33:55,150 --> 00:33:59,510 there for a very long time and just watching things just get 541 00:33:59,510 --> 00:34:01,830 better and better the more we put into it. 542 00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:06,830 So we'd installed some ponds and you could see the the wildlife 543 00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:08,909 and the flowers slowly starting to come up. 544 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,880 The IT was old farmland, so it was all this cracked, muddy 545 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,400 ground. That's absolutely phenomenal. 546 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,360 And just thinking about your job as well, Alibo, you must have to 547 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,239 be so diplomatic, Not only talking to us as horse owners 548 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,000 and and helping people sort of find new ways to keep their 549 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,199 horses, but also dealing with yard managers and land owners 550 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:35,000 who might not necessarily feel the same way as the horse owners 551 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,520 do about how they should be kept. 552 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,480 How do you deal with situations where owners are coming to you 553 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,080 and saying the yard manager or the landowner doesn't understand 554 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,320 they want the horses to be, you know, inside their stables for 555 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,719 the majority of the day or for 12 hours a day? 556 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,480 There's reduced turnout. How do you kind of help juggle 557 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,719 the personalities, the different opinions and experiences of 558 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,120 those who actually might sort of lay law down in terms of the 559 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,690 land? Yeah. 560 00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:05,130 So that one's really tricky. It's it's hard to get through to 561 00:35:05,130 --> 00:35:08,170 some people sometimes. But I think it's important to do 562 00:35:08,170 --> 00:35:11,050 baby steps. It's not, you know, I'm not 563 00:35:11,050 --> 00:35:14,050 going to muscle in and say you need to put in a surface track 564 00:35:14,050 --> 00:35:16,610 and do this and put in these plants because you've got it's 565 00:35:16,850 --> 00:35:22,850 it's going to alienate people. So yeah, it's baby steps. 566 00:35:22,850 --> 00:35:27,450 You know, it's showing the benefits, educating about what 567 00:35:27,450 --> 00:35:34,720 it can look like if you just do tiny little tweaks and and you 568 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:39,000 know, quite a lot of farmers now you pick up a Farmers Weekly 569 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,560 magazine 10 years ago and it's all about machinery and things. 570 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,480 And now there's so much more about the environment and 571 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,600 regenerative farming and looking after the soil. 572 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,160 And I think a lot of people are waking up to that. 573 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,840 And so I think it's just about educating, taking little baby 574 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,610 steps and not going in thinking you are wrong. 575 00:36:01,610 --> 00:36:04,370 I am right. It's about finding a balance. 576 00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:07,850 And it's the same with the conservation world and the horse 577 00:36:07,850 --> 00:36:12,490 world, butting heads over certain things, records in 578 00:36:12,490 --> 00:36:18,650 particular and a few other plants and and they're quite a 579 00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:22,530 lot, quite often they're using the same evidence for each side 580 00:36:22,530 --> 00:36:26,330 of the argument. And so it's about looking at the 581 00:36:26,330 --> 00:36:34,570 evidence and just finding what works for everyone and looking 582 00:36:34,650 --> 00:36:37,650 and actually looking at the data and realizing. 583 00:36:37,930 --> 00:36:40,570 So I imagine you're always staying up to date on the latest 584 00:36:40,570 --> 00:36:44,410 research and having to to stay in tune with what's going on 585 00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:47,570 around you as well as working with your clients. 586 00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:50,490 And if I'm just touching on the ragma argument, it's so hard, 587 00:36:50,490 --> 00:36:52,450 isn't it? As well so as having this 588 00:36:52,450 --> 00:36:55,890 poisonous plant on our land that we want to get rid of because. 589 00:36:56,340 --> 00:36:58,900 Might harm our horses, but also, I know 'cause on the marshland 590 00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:02,540 we have lots of ragworts in we try and keep it into the sort of 591 00:37:02,540 --> 00:37:06,060 bushes of the the strips of strips of lands that we keep for 592 00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:09,140 wildlife, like the month Jack and the barn owls at the fall 593 00:37:09,140 --> 00:37:12,100 called the marsh. But we have a huge butterfly 594 00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:15,020 population and that's where we think they're, you know, 595 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:18,300 breeding and feeding. And when we always feel torn 596 00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:21,220 from getting rid of our ragwort for our horses and leaving it 597 00:37:21,220 --> 00:37:22,580 for the butterflies, what do we do? 598 00:37:22,580 --> 00:37:25,820 How do we help you know, keep it in balance and and. 599 00:37:26,340 --> 00:37:32,140 How do we manage this Ragwort? Yeah, so Ragwort is, yeah, I see 600 00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:36,260 constant arguments about it on the Internet and I think the the 601 00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:39,420 facts are it is poisonous to horses and we need to just 602 00:37:40,580 --> 00:37:42,300 accept that. That is the fact. 603 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:46,380 There are laws that we need to remove it, but we can prevent 604 00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:51,640 its growth by actually setting up the ground for success. 605 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,120 So you're not giving the ragwart these opportunities to grow. 606 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480 At the moment. How we keep our horses is just 607 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,840 like throwing the doors open and say come on in ragwarts. 608 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:08,480 You don't need to do that. You can you can manage it so 609 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,560 other plants are are there instead of the ragwart you. 610 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,160 You might still get the occasional bit, but it's it's 611 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,200 about managing it so it doesn't come along. 612 00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:23,380 And also if you've got enough grass and you've got enough 613 00:38:23,620 --> 00:38:27,700 other grazing, unless you're using it for hay, obviously, 614 00:38:28,020 --> 00:38:31,020 definitely pull it out for if if it's being used for hay. 615 00:38:31,020 --> 00:38:34,660 But if you're not, horses don't tend to go for it. 616 00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:38,900 It's got a very bitter taste, so they don't tend to go for it. 617 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:43,180 Pull it out if you see it, but obviously if you can prevent it 618 00:38:43,180 --> 00:38:47,460 growing, that's even better and you can prevent it growing and 619 00:38:48,050 --> 00:38:49,370 support wildlife at the same time. 620 00:38:49,650 --> 00:38:51,370 I have, I have that in dead hatred. 621 00:38:51,570 --> 00:38:54,490 But I also have that internal war when I'm pulling it out and 622 00:38:54,490 --> 00:38:56,210 I can see all the butterflies around me. 623 00:38:56,370 --> 00:38:58,570 Ohh, real, real internal struggle. 624 00:38:58,570 --> 00:39:02,210 That one, Annabelle, I have to say and how can you mentioned 625 00:39:02,410 --> 00:39:04,410 earlier climate change. And I think we all feel quite 626 00:39:04,410 --> 00:39:07,290 powerless as as hall owners with climate change and a lot of the 627 00:39:07,290 --> 00:39:09,610 time we're so worried about our horses and what they're doing. 628 00:39:09,610 --> 00:39:13,010 We kind of, you know, it goes to the back of our minds, yeah. 629 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:17,410 So I'm putting together a little free guide that will cover a 630 00:39:17,410 --> 00:39:20,770 little bit of that because I think it is really easy to feel 631 00:39:20,770 --> 00:39:23,250 helpless with all this doom and gloom in the media. 632 00:39:23,530 --> 00:39:28,290 And it, yeah, it feels, it feels like it's our own fault all the 633 00:39:28,290 --> 00:39:30,250 time. And then you sort of think, Oh 634 00:39:30,250 --> 00:39:33,570 well, I can't really do anything and you get in this cycle. 635 00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:37,970 So I just want to say that it's not your fault individually. 636 00:39:37,970 --> 00:39:42,750 You know, it's it's a big sort of political issue. 637 00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:46,070 It's these big businesses that are polluting all the time, 638 00:39:46,070 --> 00:39:53,430 water companies, fuel companies. But at the same time, any little 639 00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:57,070 thing that you do will make a difference, even if you don't 640 00:39:57,070 --> 00:39:59,430 feel like it is. Even just the time native 641 00:39:59,430 --> 00:40:00,950 plants. You mentioned using plants 642 00:40:00,950 --> 00:40:05,150 within the land, but the native plants and biodiversity play in 643 00:40:05,150 --> 00:40:09,230 creating a healthier ecosystem for horses and wildlife. 644 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,760 The better the biodiversity, the more resilient it is to climate 645 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,920 change, and also the more it's contributing to slowing it down. 646 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:27,080 And you're giving homes for so many different animals and 647 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,520 insects and plants, and you know, stuff might be. 648 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,360 There might be seeds in your soil that you don't know about 649 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,640 that just need the right conditions to bloom. 650 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,360 And you might have some rare plants that you know are 651 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,640 desperately in need of growing and supporting insects, So. 652 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,000 It's really interesting, isn't it? 653 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,920 Because talking, hearing you talk about baby steps and little 654 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,960 bits of difference, where we rent this piece of marshland and 655 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,680 we've got our track system that we try and rotate around as much 656 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,600 as we can, we always leave an area of the marsh, that's the 657 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,360 long grass we aim, keep a little bit of ragwe in there for the 658 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,410 butterflies. And there are hares in there, a 659 00:41:04,410 --> 00:41:06,210 Munchak. And there's a ball now that we 660 00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:09,170 love coming to watch at dusk. And he hunts and he swoops down 661 00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:10,730 into the long grass and picks things up. 662 00:41:11,050 --> 00:41:15,130 There's moles and mole hills. It's the most incredible sight 663 00:41:15,130 --> 00:41:18,290 to see the horses grazing alongside all of these different 664 00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:21,090 wildlife species that we've never seen that place before 665 00:41:21,090 --> 00:41:24,960 because we move from Kent. Very highly populated county, 666 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,280 very busy to Suffolk which seems to be a little bit more wild and 667 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,200 the nature seems to be thriving more in Suffolk than it 668 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,400 certainly was in Kent in our experience. 669 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,360 And it's amazing because pretty see this Marshall and has always 670 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,360 been kept so that the grass was short and neat and smart. 671 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,480 But we always try to keep an area of it long for the animals, 672 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,680 for the wildlife and just watching it come alive with 673 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,720 creatures has incredible and also we hope that that. 674 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:55,620 Encourages the horses to live a more natural life and that they 675 00:41:55,620 --> 00:41:59,340 get the enjoyment of sharing the land with critters. 676 00:41:59,340 --> 00:42:01,340 Other than the little herd that we have. 677 00:42:01,660 --> 00:42:04,580 Yeah, definitely. I think I used to do a bit of 678 00:42:04,580 --> 00:42:09,980 forest bathing and it's it's so beneficial to to people and 679 00:42:10,540 --> 00:42:12,860 there's all this green prescribing doctors you know 680 00:42:12,860 --> 00:42:17,340 prescribing time outside and it it must be similar in horses. 681 00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:22,040 You know it plays into that enrichment for them to interact 682 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,560 with wildlife and things and and have it around them must be good 683 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,320 for their health. And yeah be really interested to 684 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,080 see any research and that I don't don't know if there is any 685 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,240 but be really cool to find out how that affects horses because 686 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,280 it's it's really important for nature and for us as well. 687 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,720 You know you feel so much better when you hear a bird. 688 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,160 So, right is those little things that keep us going in in the 689 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,360 hardest of times and and how often. 690 00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:52,550 Even if we haven't got a hospital stay, but how often, if 691 00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:56,310 we've had distressful dad does a walk, help us sort of channel 692 00:42:56,310 --> 00:42:59,630 those emotions and feelings and just getting outside wherever it 693 00:42:59,630 --> 00:43:03,150 might be out into the green space to just let loose. 694 00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:06,110 Sort of harking back to the times when it was the only thing 695 00:43:06,110 --> 00:43:09,430 that we had when we didn't have technology and TV's and phones 696 00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:12,630 and emails and what nature in our paddocks, What about the 697 00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:14,710 plants? What plants can we actually 698 00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:18,110 plant ourselves so if we don't have sort of naturally borning 699 00:43:18,110 --> 00:43:20,720 plants? Hopping up and the hedgerows 700 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,480 sort of rich at the side of the borders of the field. 701 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,640 What can we actually put in and and plant ourselves, Annabelle, 702 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,960 for the horses And yeah, so you can put in the hedgerows instead 703 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,880 of your fencing around the edge. There's actually some grant 704 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,000 schemes out there to help with the cost of that. 705 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:44,740 You can also, I saw a really cool thing at a question center 706 00:43:44,740 --> 00:43:47,820 that I visited recently that's doing a lot of rewilding stuff 707 00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:51,180 and they've put in living fence posts. 708 00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:57,660 So trees, trees that have been put into the ground and then 709 00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:05,820 screwed in the electric fencing into the trees and it's not 710 00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:09,840 harming the tree, but the the fence is living, which is really 711 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,360 cool. And there's also the ancient art 712 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,160 of hedge laying, which can turn your hedge into a beautiful 713 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:21,440 fence and there's a lot of wildlife and trust sort of 714 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,120 places or local conservation charities that do courses on 715 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,480 that. So you could learn to do it 716 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,960 yourself. How cool would that be? 717 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:33,870 And and then if you can't do any of these really cool things and 718 00:44:33,870 --> 00:44:37,790 you could also make like a little browsing garden for your 719 00:44:37,790 --> 00:44:43,470 horse so you could get various herbs and plants that you could 720 00:44:43,470 --> 00:44:47,790 grow in a little area. I've got on my Instagram, 721 00:44:47,790 --> 00:44:49,870 Facebook, I've got some safe plants. 722 00:44:49,950 --> 00:44:53,950 I usually do like a plant spotlight every few days and you 723 00:44:53,950 --> 00:44:57,300 can put in some of these plants and you could either pick them 724 00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:02,380 for your horse or if you're into destruction you could take your 725 00:45:02,380 --> 00:45:05,780 horse in there. But they might try and eat 726 00:45:05,780 --> 00:45:09,540 everything. But yeah, you could you could 727 00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:13,900 give them all this free choice selection, which would be really 728 00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:19,500 good for them because there's sort of this area called Zoo 729 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:25,140 Farmer cognizy, I think it was called that horses self select 730 00:45:25,950 --> 00:45:30,790 different plants and herbs and things to help themselves with 731 00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:32,910 and. It's also the funds as owners to 732 00:45:32,910 --> 00:45:35,830 watch the horses exploring the plants as well as enriching A 733 00:45:35,830 --> 00:45:38,790 horse's life, isn't it? Because I remember, and this is 734 00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:41,750 really stuck with me, it must have been about three years ago 735 00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:44,990 now, 3 summers ago that like my little miniature horse Diesel 736 00:45:44,990 --> 00:45:49,030 that I own with my mum, he was in his summer turnout paddock, 737 00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:52,230 which we always have restricted element of grass and it's a bit 738 00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:56,720 sort of more of a rocky terrain. And lower quality grass, less 739 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:02,960 sugary, and on the sort of hill with lots of stones, thistles 740 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,960 would grow. And I never thought anything off 741 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,840 of it because thistles would appear. 742 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,160 I know they weren't harmful to the horses. 743 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,800 I equally I thought they never ate them anyway. 744 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,760 And one time I saw I put them back in their leopard, and I saw 745 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,960 him go over to the Thistle, get his tiny little miniature who? 746 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,800 Dig up the Thistle. So he was actually digging it 747 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,160 out of the ground with his little hoof, and then he picked 748 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,520 it up between his teeth and really carefully ate this purple 749 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,560 and grim Thistle, sort of little stem by stem, leaf by leaf, 750 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,240 avoiding anything that spiky and crunching it down if it was. 751 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,360 And it was the most hilarious and fascinating thing that I've 752 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,080 ever seen in my life. I was transfixed. 753 00:46:46,270 --> 00:46:48,990 That image will never leave me, but it just shows. 754 00:46:48,990 --> 00:46:51,590 Goes to show you that they might be having last and getting 755 00:46:51,590 --> 00:46:55,230 something tasty to eat and the real treat for them, but also 756 00:46:55,230 --> 00:46:58,390 it's very entertaining for us at the owners to see our horses 757 00:46:58,390 --> 00:47:00,630 behaving in new and different ways. 758 00:47:00,950 --> 00:47:03,030 Yeah, definitely. And you think that must be 759 00:47:03,030 --> 00:47:06,110 really good for his mind to think, figure out problem 760 00:47:06,110 --> 00:47:10,550 solving. And you think how satisfying it 761 00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:13,990 is when you've successfully prepared a meal or you've got 762 00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:17,710 like a new tricky fruit and you figured out how to get it out 763 00:47:17,710 --> 00:47:19,790 and you've got every last little tasty morsel. 764 00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:23,070 It must be the same for them, that satisfaction of their 765 00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:25,230 getting every tasty bit from a plant. 766 00:47:25,230 --> 00:47:29,070 And yeah, thistles. Loads of benefits to thistles. 767 00:47:29,070 --> 00:47:31,670 Not all horses go for them because they are quite brickly. 768 00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:34,470 But yeah, no, that's really cool. 769 00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:39,540 How cute. I'm trying to think that. 770 00:47:39,540 --> 00:47:42,580 I know they've got some minerals in them. 771 00:47:44,260 --> 00:47:45,780 Trying to think off the top of my head. 772 00:47:45,780 --> 00:47:47,740 I'm doing it. Plant spotlight on them soon. 773 00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:53,460 Keep an eye out for my plant spotlight, yeah. 774 00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:56,420 I will, I actually, I will keep an eye out for your guides. 775 00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:58,180 I'm. I'm really intrigued as to why 776 00:47:58,180 --> 00:48:01,220 he went for it but he is. I swear he is the most clever of 777 00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:03,300 the of the herd of three horses that we have. 778 00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:04,980 Our little American Miniature Diesel. 779 00:48:05,780 --> 00:48:08,860 He's very sharp and very on it and always hasn't since he was a 780 00:48:08,860 --> 00:48:12,540 fault, so it doesn't surprise me that he's the one navigating and 781 00:48:12,540 --> 00:48:17,100 negotiating the prickles and. The thorns of the Thistle 782 00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:18,300 because he knows what he's doing. 783 00:48:18,300 --> 00:48:21,100 He's very smart little boy, that's for sure. 784 00:48:21,820 --> 00:48:27,580 Transitioning from conventional Land Management is daunting to 785 00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:31,380 eco friendly options. Can you prove out overwhelming 786 00:48:31,780 --> 00:48:34,500 ourselves and our horses at the same time? 787 00:48:34,890 --> 00:48:37,970 Yeah. So I think it's good to sort of 788 00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:42,370 first get it clear and you had what you actually want from it 789 00:48:42,370 --> 00:48:44,770 all. Because there's no point going 790 00:48:45,410 --> 00:48:49,450 down 1 route and then trying to undo what you've done or not 791 00:48:49,450 --> 00:48:52,530 fully understanding what you're doing and then ending up with 792 00:48:52,850 --> 00:48:57,130 loads of rank grass with nettles and weeds and you think, what 793 00:48:57,130 --> 00:49:02,170 the hell have I done? And so I'd say start with 1 794 00:49:02,650 --> 00:49:07,930 paddock or one area. Then if you mess it up, it you 795 00:49:07,930 --> 00:49:10,410 know you you're not. It's not the whole place. 796 00:49:10,410 --> 00:49:13,010 You haven't ruined everything, you've just got one area that 797 00:49:13,010 --> 00:49:19,850 you've experimented with. You can study these courses, you 798 00:49:19,850 --> 00:49:24,210 can read these books, or I can jump in and teach you it all 799 00:49:24,250 --> 00:49:26,770 from scratch or just teach you the bits that you need to know 800 00:49:26,770 --> 00:49:31,970 for your particular bit of land. But basically the the idea is 801 00:49:31,970 --> 00:49:35,180 you sort of look at what you've got already, look at the plants 802 00:49:35,180 --> 00:49:39,020 you've already got like a botanical survey, which I can 803 00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:44,020 do, or you can go out there and learn it or you can get some 804 00:49:44,020 --> 00:49:49,540 help and then look at the soil, get your soil tested, see what 805 00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:52,660 your soil is lacking or has too much of. 806 00:49:53,140 --> 00:49:54,580 And that's sort of your baseline. 807 00:49:55,460 --> 00:50:00,740 Then you can look at what does it need, what doesn't it need? 808 00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:05,230 And then you can figure out how you can use your horses to help 809 00:50:05,230 --> 00:50:07,470 you with that. Do you need to take them off 810 00:50:07,470 --> 00:50:09,910 that paddock to rest it so the grass can grow? 811 00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:14,550 Can you so you can actually see what's there and see what comes 812 00:50:14,550 --> 00:50:17,510 up where? And then you could it sort of, 813 00:50:17,710 --> 00:50:20,510 yeah, it snowballs. And you, the more you learn, the 814 00:50:20,510 --> 00:50:22,470 more you're like, oh, this works. 815 00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:25,070 That works. That doesn't work for me. 816 00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:30,270 All of it just plays in together and but yeah, don't be afraid to 817 00:50:30,270 --> 00:50:33,990 experiment in small areas and you and get. 818 00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:36,470 To grips with it as well because it does take a lot of time and 819 00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:38,590 management. I know from me and my mum who 820 00:50:38,590 --> 00:50:42,190 have our little herd together on the track, it's taken, I dread 821 00:50:42,190 --> 00:50:46,470 to think days, probably weeks of solid time, setting up the 822 00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:50,990 fencing, moving it, rotating it. So it is an investment as well 823 00:50:50,990 --> 00:50:52,630 isn't it? We know that although it's going 824 00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:55,030 to take a lot of our time and a lot of our effort and actually a 825 00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:58,550 lot of graft and muscle work, it is going to benefit our horses 826 00:50:58,550 --> 00:51:01,290 and. Ultimately, hopefully make our 827 00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:04,010 lives and their lives a lot easier in the long run. 828 00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:06,850 Instead of thinking about turning out and then taking back 829 00:51:06,850 --> 00:51:08,930 in again and mucking out stables. 830 00:51:08,930 --> 00:51:12,570 Actually, we're putting that time into the land around us, 831 00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:16,610 definitely, Yeah. You're saving money in the long 832 00:51:16,610 --> 00:51:18,450 run and you're saving time in the long run. 833 00:51:18,450 --> 00:51:22,450 It's it's a long game rather than a quick fix, and it can 834 00:51:22,450 --> 00:51:25,610 take a long time for the ground to to balance out. 835 00:51:26,290 --> 00:51:29,950 But if you think about it in long terms, if you've got this 836 00:51:29,950 --> 00:51:33,670 all set up, then you don't have to be mucking up stables like 837 00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:36,230 you say you're not spending all that money on bedding. 838 00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:41,950 Petting prices seem to be skyrocketing constantly and you 839 00:51:41,950 --> 00:51:45,190 know, hard feed costs. And then on the Environmental 840 00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:49,590 Center, it's saving on all those single use plastics that wrap up 841 00:51:49,590 --> 00:51:54,710 the bedding and the feeds. Yeah, it just, it's if you can 842 00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:58,350 think long term with it, it is. It does pay off. 843 00:51:58,890 --> 00:52:02,010 And education is key, as we know, listening to you and and 844 00:52:02,010 --> 00:52:04,370 hearing all of your expertise and your tips and tricks that 845 00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:08,010 are going to get us through. But how do you work to raise 846 00:52:08,010 --> 00:52:11,090 awareness and educate horse owners about the importance of 847 00:52:11,090 --> 00:52:16,330 sustainable Land Management? So I'm post like mad on social 848 00:52:16,330 --> 00:52:22,090 media with my little plant spotlights and my wheels that 849 00:52:22,290 --> 00:52:25,890 quite often involve the Crocs that I'm wearing or my child 850 00:52:25,890 --> 00:52:29,370 screeching in the background. But I hope it's like little 851 00:52:29,370 --> 00:52:34,210 snippets of education. But there is also chances to 852 00:52:34,210 --> 00:52:38,090 actually get quite deep into it. There's the equiculture course 853 00:52:38,250 --> 00:52:42,820 and there's links that I've got on my social media and things 854 00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:47,940 where you can, if you have the time and the energy to study it, 855 00:52:47,940 --> 00:52:51,180 you can get deep, right, deep into understanding it all. 856 00:52:51,500 --> 00:52:56,180 And and then I'm hoping to sort of like here talking podcasts, 857 00:52:56,180 --> 00:53:01,580 go and talk in places where people might not be thinking 858 00:53:01,580 --> 00:53:04,380 about that sort of thing. So like the next couple of 859 00:53:04,380 --> 00:53:08,180 weeks, I'm going to speak on a panel at the Blenheim Horse 860 00:53:08,180 --> 00:53:12,990 Trials. So I'm hoping to reach some 861 00:53:12,990 --> 00:53:14,590 slightly different audiences there. 862 00:53:14,830 --> 00:53:19,550 Come and say hello if if you are going and I'll be on the beyond 863 00:53:19,550 --> 00:53:24,430 the stable stage. And yeah, just sort of trying to 864 00:53:24,830 --> 00:53:29,270 inform people, I think it's becoming more and more on 865 00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:32,710 people's radars. And I think if we carry on 866 00:53:32,710 --> 00:53:37,750 managing the horses how we do, there's likely to be some kind 867 00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:42,410 of legislation coming into play because it is really degrading 868 00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:45,250 the land. But on the flip side of that, I 869 00:53:45,250 --> 00:53:50,890 think there may be incentives to manage our land better that will 870 00:53:50,890 --> 00:53:54,610 come out of this, which would be really exciting. 871 00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:57,450 And I'm hoping to keep a finger on the pulse for all of those 872 00:53:57,450 --> 00:54:02,730 and help people achieve what they need to be able to receive 873 00:54:02,730 --> 00:54:08,120 the funding from those things or the support or whatever is going 874 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,280 to be provided. I'm hoping to be able to help 875 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,240 people get that. Well, Albo has been absolutely 876 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,640 fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing so 877 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,840 many gems and so much of your expertise. 878 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,760 To help us all get started on our Land Management for both the 879 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,720 environment around us and for our horses welfare, we've got 880 00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:26,920 some great first steps.