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All right, hey there, this is 
Prom Constant and you're 

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listening to Bitcoin for 
Millennials. 

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Together with my guests on this 
podcast, I go on a journey to 

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discover how our current 
financial system works, why it's

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flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 
most relevant technology that 

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you should understand and adopt.
In this episode, I'm joined by 

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Lawrence Leopard. 
He's a career investment manager

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who focuses on sound money and 
manages his funds related to 

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gold, silver, and Bitcoin. 
He's known for sharing his views

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on the state of the global 
financial system, inflation, and

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the need for sound investments 
to protect against currency 

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debasement. 
His ideas and explanations 

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around these topics have helped 
me immensely in my learning 

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journey about finance, so I'm 
super excited. 

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To talk Oh, you're being kind. 
Yeah. 

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Now, man, it's true. 
Like, First off, like I would 

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love to start with expressing my
gratitude like it was. 

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Very kind, yeah. 
No, I just. 

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I'm just out on Twitter making a
lot of noise. 

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You know what I mean? 
I yeah, very angry. 

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What the central banks have done
to the world, you know, they've 

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heard a lot of people and. 
That's true. 

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But, like, I feel like it's 
somebody'd job to step up and 

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scream about it. 
That's me. 

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Well, I think you're doing a 
great job. 

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I mean, like, I I know how 
important it is to share this 

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because I I think it's nice to 
know that you don't know how far

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your voice travels and as I 
mentioned like you really 

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influenced my learning. 
So, so I'm really. 

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Grateful for that. 
Yeah. 

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It's nice to hear. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, so well, awesome. 
Also to see you in real life 

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last week in Madeira. 
We were both just at Bitcoin 

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Atlantis and that was a fabulous
gathering and and really you 

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know, just the spirit of Bitcoin
was there in a big way. 

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It was great. 
Highly recommend that you go to 

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shows like that if you're a 
Bitcoiner. 

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Fully agree. 
What was your biggest take away 

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there? 
You know, I, I, I, I get more 

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and more confident. 
I mean, I I think that, you 

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know, my journey has just been 
from, you know, I bought some 

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coins in 2013 and you have to 
remember I've been in gold 

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before that. 
And you know, they there's a the

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whole etymology background 
history of Bitcoin is people had

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tried this before Bitcoin. 
I mean there was, you know, E 

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gold and there were, there were 
online and there there were 

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people who tried to create 
digitally based money before 

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Bitcoin. 
They all failed you know. 

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Now pieces of them got brought 
into the Bitcoin code. 

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But but for various reasons none
of them worked. 

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And so in 2013 when I first got 
involved I bought some but I 

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frankly I was skeptical. 
I thought, well this will 

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probably fail like all the other
ones have and of course I was 

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wrong about that. 
But you know, and as time goes 

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by, you just get, you develop 
more and more confidence and 

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more and more certainty that, 
no, you know, it's not going to 

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fail. 
And the technology's sound and 

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what we see is correct. 
And I think I came away from it 

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after hearing sailors speak and 
talking to a lot of people. 

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I mean I I really, I'm beginning
to feel like it's just it's 

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absolutely inevitable that this 
monetary technology will subsume

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and replace all the other 
monetary technologies. 

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And that, you know, I don't know
what time frame, I'm not going 

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to say that with certainty. 
But you know, 20 years out, you 

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know, maybe we won't be talking 
dollars, maybe we'll be talking 

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stats and it'll be like, you 
know that that lunch cost me 3 

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sats or whatever the heck it is.
I don't know what the relative 

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values will be. 
But you know because a SAT is, 

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is an algorithmic and really 
determined thing that can't be 

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over printed. 
And so in terms of money, you 

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know, one as you know one of the
key and important roles of money

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is that it maintain its value. 
You know, there'd be a store of 

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value that you can earn it, hold
it and know that when you 

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decide, you know, and that's 
holding it. 

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It's called saving. 
And know that when you decide, 

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OK. 
And you know, I've, I've worked 

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for this money. 
I've got some savings, You know,

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I'd like to now cash it in and 
buy something that I would enjoy

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a vacation or a car or house or 
food, whatever, to feel like you

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haven't been robbed. 
You know and. 

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And I mean what I would suggest 
and what I think you you agree 

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and I agree and you know 
probably most of your listeners 

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understand is that inflation 
really is kind of a silent form 

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of theft. 
You know you you work hard, you 

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make money, you're paid your 
money. 

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And you know if you don't, if 
you spend it right away, well 

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then you, you don't suffer 
inflation per SE. 

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I mean you might have suffered 
previous inflation but but if 

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you if you decide to hold it for
some period of time, you know 

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it's it's highly certain that 
you will your your purchase, 

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your actual purchasing power 
will decrease if you're holding 

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Fiat currency so. 
Is this the biggest thing you 

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think that people don't 
understand about the financial 

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system or? 
That's a good question. 

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I mean, I think some people 
understand it, but I think it's 

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a minority. 
I think most of the world 

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understands that we have 
inflation and that's a really 

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bad thing. 
I think that the politicians 

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have tried to do a good job of 
blaming corporations for 

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inflation or the other guy for 
inflation, when in reality it's 

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them and their actions and the 
central bank's actions and the 

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deficits and the stimmies and, 
you know, the the money printing

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that has caused inflation. 
I mean there's at any given 

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point in time in the world, 
there's a certain amount of 

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goods and services and it, you 
know, and and the money that's 

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being used competes for those 
good and services, goods and 

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services. 
And the price is supposed to be 

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the point where supply and 
demand get balanced. 

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And the problem is if you 
increase, if you, you know 

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vastly increase the supply of 
the money, then there's more 

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money chasing the same amount of
services and the the price for 

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each service is going to go or 
good is going to go up. 

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So you know and but to your 
question, do people understand 

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it? 
I I think that I think that 

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only, you know, a very small 
percentage of the people have an

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enormously deep understanding of
it, the way gold bugs and you 

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know, Bitcoin people and and you
know, Austrian economists 

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understand it. 
I think a much larger piece of 

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the population understands 
there's inflation and some of 

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them have a sense that that's 
the fault of the government but 

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not all. 
And I think many people are 

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just, you know, clueless and and
don't haven't really focused on 

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the money. 
And they tend to think that it's

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more a function of, you know, 
whether it's blue team or red 

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team that's winning. 
And so they spend a lot of time 

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arguing over politics and my 
view is that both teams stink 

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and that, you know, really it's 
what what's what we need is 

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orange team to win, right. 
Because sound you know my byline

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on Twitter is fix the money, fix
the world. 

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And you know, I I think when I, 
when I look at the world today 

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at 66 and I compare it to the 
world I was growing up in, in 

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the 70s when I was a teenager, 
it's a much it's a shittier 

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world. 
I mean it's in some ways it's 

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much better. 
We have a lot more technology a 

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lot of things about are better. 
But in terms of the civility, 

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the, you know, the, you know, 
the income inequality, you know,

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just a lot of a lot of other 
measures, you know, health, you 

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know in the US we've got a real,
you know, drug, drug problem of 

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late. 
You know it it was a better 

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world when we had sounder money 
and by going to unsound money it

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it it affects you know, a lot of
things, the politics, the, you 

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know, interpersonal 
relationships etcetera. 

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So you know, do I think that a 
lot of people understand the 

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unsound money is the problem? 
No. 

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However, I will say this some of
us do and and those ranks are 

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growing quickly. 
You know, I I feel like we might

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we I talked about this on 
another podcast earlier today. 

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I feel like we might be kind of 
getting close to that tipping 

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point where, you know, I think 
once 10% of the population 

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understands something and feels 
it very strongly and yells about

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it, then you start to it's 
Malcolm Gladwell's tipping 

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point, then then it can go 
rather quickly, you know, in the

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right, in the direction of, you 
know, change. 

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Hey there. 
Thanks so much for listening to 

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this episode. 
I just really want to ask you 

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for a quick favor. 
Over the last few months, I've 

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seen that only 75% of people who
listen to this podcast or watch 

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it on YouTube are actually 
subscribed. 

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The most important thing I'm 
currently focusing on, next to 

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hopefully giving you interesting
conversations is growing this 

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podcast subscriber base so I can
continue with it into the 

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future. 
I want to thank everyone who's 

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been viewing and listening to 
Bitcoin for millennials leaving 

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comments here and sending me 
DMS. 

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It's been super, super 
motivating. 

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So thank you so much. 
So I really want to ask you to 

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please hit the subscribe button 
on YouTube or follow me on your 

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00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,720
favorite podcasting app if you 
are enjoying this podcast. 

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Thanks again for joining me on 
this journey. 

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Now back to the conversation, I 
think it's, it's especially in 

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the Western world, right. 
And and you just asked me before

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we started like oh, it's Bitcoin
for millennials. 

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And like one of the things I 
think why I want to focus on 

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millennials also and of course 
everyone is welcome to listen 

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but we are going to inherit you 
know this wealth or the money in

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in the world. 
But and then, especially in the 

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Western world, we never got 
taught what is money, how does 

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this work? 
And we never also had the urge 

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to learn it because it just 
worked, right. 

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And now it's so interesting, 
like now I am personally at a 

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point where I understand that my
broken money worked because my 

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western country is still 
exploiting, you know, southern 

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countries and Eastern countries.
And that's why our money still 

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works. 
And their money is broken for 

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10s of years already, right? 
Right. 

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And yeah, that just takes some 
time. 

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Especially when, yeah, if you 
don't have that the problem in 

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real life that your money is not
working for you, then yeah, it 

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takes a long time to understand 
that. 

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But I also agree with you, I 
don't think we need a lot of 

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people, you know, definitely not
a majority to realize you know, 

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the money is broken and and it 
has to, it has to change. 

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Well, and also the issue is 
accelerating. 

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I mean if you know we went off 
the gold standard in 71 and and 

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it really we we tried, we had 
some serious acceleration from 

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71 to 80 and and gold went up 
you know 22X and was a lot of 

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inflation, monetary debasement. 
Then Volcker slayed that for a 

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while and the decade of the 80s 
this really wasn't a very big 

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issue. 
I mean, you know, there wasn't 

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that much inflation, you know 
and and but there was some more 

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than was reported. 
And what's happened is the 

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problem has kind of gotten like 
so many things has gotten 

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progressively worse. 
And now in my opinion, we're 

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very close to the point at which
it kind of goes critical, you 

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know. 
And so you know it, it got worse

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with the bubbleofthe.com bubble 
and the money that was printed 

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when LTCM crashed to getthat.com
bubble to be it to grow to where

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it did. 
And then it got, you know, more 

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acute when we had the housing 
bubble. 

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You know, and and of course the 
reaction ofthe.com bubble was 

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taking interest rates from, you 
know 5-6 percent down to 1% and 

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and they almost and there were 
guys that were fed people who 

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actually consciously said it. 
We need to get a housing bubble 

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going to pull this economy out 
of the dive that we took 

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afterthe.com bubble burst and 
then you know so that was more 

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money printing and and you know 
and and then O eight came along 

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and and you know everything was 
going to fail. 

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And of course they that was real
money printing. 

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I mean before that they'd never 
done quantitative easing. the 

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Fed balance sheet was 800 
billion. 

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They took it to 3.7 or 
something. 

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So so that was you know and then
of course they stopped with the 

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money printing but they kept 
interest rates low for a very 

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long period of time. 
You know to 2015 we got 0% 

225
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,000
interest rates which in 
capitalism is really kind of a 

226
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,480
crime. 
You know if the money has no 

227
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,160
cost or no you know this cost 
anything to have money and money

228
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,920
is theoretically free, well then
why is there value to it You 

229
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,360
know it's it's kind of a 
tautology. 

230
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,400
So and and that of course led to
blowing of quote UN quote the 

231
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,040
everything bubble which is what 
we now live in where you know 

232
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,880
all this free money and and of 
course you know it it it you 

233
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,640
know that everything bubbled. 
They tried to taper their 

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00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,160
balance sheet in 1718 and of 
course in 19 it it, it blew up 

235
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,680
on them. 
The repo blew out and they had 

236
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:09,480
to start printing again And then
COVID arrived and boy that was 

237
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,760
the big print, right. 
I mean 3.7 trillion balance 

238
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,880
sheet went to 9 trillion is the 
Fed, you know, and the money 

239
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,840
supply you know, exploded 40% in
two years. 

240
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,880
And This is why we've had all 
this inflation that we've all 

241
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,600
suffered through over the last 
three or four years. 

242
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,680
And so, you know, it's it's kind
of like each one of these events

243
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,720
gets to be bigger, more 
pronounced and more and more 

244
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,040
powerful in terms of people's 
awareness of the problem, you 

245
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,240
know, and and so I would submit 
to you. 

246
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,440
And then there's another one 
coming. 

247
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,120
Just know it because the math 
almost assures it. 

248
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,120
It's. 
Just math. 

249
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,720
Yeah, it is just math. 
I mean we're growing the debt 

250
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,760
much more rapidly than we're 
growing the GDP. 

251
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,640
GDP is the earnings power of the
of the of the economy and the 

252
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,320
earnings part of the economy is 
what's used to service the debt.

253
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,760
And so this is like a, you know,
this is like a family that you 

254
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,840
know, the the the breadwinner's 
only getting, you know, 5 or 6% 

255
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,760
growth per year in his salary, 
but he's spending 30% more a 

256
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,320
year in his his, his debt and 
he's using debt to to to do it. 

257
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,680
And eventually, you know, either
the family's going to go 

258
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:20,920
bankrupt or they're going to, 
you know, in the case of our 

259
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,600
government, they're going to 
print the money to cover the the

260
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,000
cost because you know, if they 
go, they won't let themselves go

261
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,360
bankrupt. 
We know that. 

262
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,280
Well, 2 two things there. 
I think it is about the interest

263
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,280
payments are now about 20%. 
Yeah, they're. 

264
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,080
Running at about a trillion, 
yeah. 

265
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,240
And that's how three, 3% average
interest rate on the US federal 

266
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:44,040
debt. 
Yeah. 

267
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,080
So as a citizen, when you work 
full time five days a week, you 

268
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,680
are basically working one day a 
week to help your government pay

269
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:58,600
off their debt, right. 
And so when you earlier 

270
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,320
mentioned, you know you have and
I like that visualization, 

271
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:03,920
right? 
Like basically you have two 

272
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,480
buckets. 
One bucket is the bucket where 

273
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,400
all the money is in, you know 
the units that we use to pay for

274
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,400
the productivity of the people 
and the productivity is the 

275
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,560
services they provide or the 
products they create, right, 

276
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:19,680
with jobs or Avengers. 
And the other bucket is that 

277
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,800
productivity, but the 
productivity is limited in a 

278
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,960
certain sense. 
You know it's also determined by

279
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,360
the amount of people that are 
actually working etcetera, 

280
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,680
right. 
That's why birth rates are so 

281
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,240
important. 
And then you said like if you 

282
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,960
grow the bucket of the units of 
the currency, then you will you 

283
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,960
basically and it's not in an 
equilibrium anymore, right. 

284
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,840
So then you have to pay more 
units of that currency for the 

285
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,280
same amount of productivity, so 
products or services, right. 

286
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,080
And I think that's a great 
visualization for what inflation

287
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,760
is like. 
You just pay more units of the 

288
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:03,520
same thing, but that doesn't 
mean that the product or the 

289
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,320
service or that productivity 
became more valuable. 

290
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,920
It's the other way around. 
It's the units became less 

291
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,920
valuable. 
Right. 

292
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,000
That's exactly right. 
Well, I mean, yeah, in, in, in 

293
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,640
the, the the currency became 
less valuable per unit because 

294
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,560
you know the amount of the 
amount of productivity is what 

295
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,480
it is and but if you've got more
currency units chasing it, each 

296
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,280
unit buys you less. 
Yeah. 

297
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,040
Yeah, I like to say, I like to 
say units because people, when 

298
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,880
they think of price, they think 
of value, right. 

299
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,560
So when when you say prices go 
up, they think, oh, the banana 

300
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,720
is more valuable. 
No, same banana exactly. 

301
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,800
It just cost you more. 
Yeah, because the money's been 

302
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,360
debased. 
Yeah. 

303
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,640
And so I don't have an 
background in economics and 

304
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,920
finance, right. 
But if I hear, for example, 

305
00:15:52,920 --> 00:16:00,000
safety in say like economics is 
basically a social study, right.

306
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,880
It's about how we trade, trade 
with each other. 

307
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,360
That's makes I I'm not, so I'm 
not poisoned by other like 

308
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,480
economic point of views, right. 
So if I hear that, I think like,

309
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,880
oh that makes a lot of sense, 
right. 

310
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,640
Because if you and I meet and I 
need something that you can, you

311
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,720
know, create or or or service me
for, then we shake hands and we 

312
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,320
agree upon, you know, whatever 
the value is, right. 

313
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,320
And so that is the social part. 
I think of it. 

314
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,640
But why are there then people 
who think they can engineer 

315
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,520
human behavior? 
Like how? 

316
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,920
Where do these people get their 
ideas from? 

317
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,520
How does that work? 
I mean, I don't know. 

318
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,080
I mean it's you know this. 
I mean governments and 

319
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,800
economists and you know we've 
we've we've gone down a lot of 

320
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,480
the wrong roads in terms of how 
we're running the economy. 

321
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,200
And you know the the, you know, 
when we when when we went off 

322
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,200
the Gold Center in 1971, Richard
Nixon said, well we're all 

323
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,680
Keynesians now and and maybe 
I'll talk a little bit about the

324
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,960
flaw in the Keynesian model. 
The the Keynesian model kind of 

325
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,599
believed that what you do is 
growth at any cost and and all 

326
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,599
you wanted to do was continue to
grow and and therefore when the 

327
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,960
economy slowed down it was 
incumbent upon the government to

328
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,079
step in and provide the stimulus
necessary And he used the words 

329
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,079
to rekindle animal spirits and 
you know he was Keynes and and 

330
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,920
all the economists of his ilk 
including Ben Bernanke and 

331
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,960
others. 
You know they they were all 

332
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,680
reacting to the Great Depression
which was kind of the Holy Grail

333
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,240
of of economics. 
You know things blowing up. 

334
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,360
And, you know, they, they said 
rather than recognize that the 

335
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,480
Great Depression was caused by 
the fact that they blew an 

336
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,240
enormous asset bubble by, you 
know, when the Federal Reserve 

337
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,640
was established, it kept rates 
way too low and bailed everybody

338
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,040
out and grew the money supply 
too rapidly and of course, led 

339
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,000
to an enormous bubble in stocks 
and the crash in stocks. 

340
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,960
You know, rather than interpret 
that as we shouldn't have had a 

341
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,600
Fed and we shouldn't have let 
that bubble form, they 

342
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,240
interpreted that as, oh, that 
was all normal. 

343
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,120
But we didn't react strongly 
enough. 

344
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,560
Once the bubble burst, we should
have printed more money once the

345
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,000
bubble burst and then that would
have solved the problem. 

346
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,640
And you know, I mean if if 
printing money made a company 

347
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,800
country rich, you know, 
Venezuela or Zimbabwe or you 

348
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,000
know, Weimar Germany, I mean, 
you know, printing money does 

349
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,280
not make a country rich. 
In fact, it ultimately ruins a 

350
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,160
country by ruining the currency.
So you know this, this is a very

351
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,880
flawed model where Keynes is 
trying to, you know, print money

352
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,120
to keep things growing. 
And what we really don't need is

353
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,560
growth. 
We need efficiency. 

354
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,840
And in classical economics, the 
way this works is the interest 

355
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:52,160
rate is the price of money, and 
the interest rate should be set 

356
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,200
by the balance of supply and 
demand of savers and investors. 

357
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,160
So if I save money because I've 
earned, you know, if I've earned

358
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,600
some money and I have some 
savings and say you're an 

359
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,120
entrepreneur and you say, you 
know, Larry, I want to build a 

360
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:11,120
business, you know, will you? 
But I but I don't have the money

361
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:12,520
to do it. 
But I know if you gave me some 

362
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:13,840
money I could build that 
business. 

363
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,120
Will you lend me some money? 
I would say, yeah, I would 

364
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,360
evaluate you and the idea and 
the business and everything 

365
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:20,680
else. 
And we'd we'd agree on an 

366
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,040
interest rate. 
It would balance the risks and 

367
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,880
you know and and or maybe we do 
it in equity but generally 

368
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,880
speaking just keep it keeping it
simple. 

369
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,840
Keep it to the debt model. 
We would agree on an interest 

370
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,680
rate that balanced the supply 
and demand of savings against 

371
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,960
the supply and demand for 
investment projects and that 

372
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,480
would be determined by the 
marketplace. 

373
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,280
So, but as we all know, the 
interest rates are not 

374
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,680
determined by the marketplace. 
Today. 

375
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,280
The interest rates are 
determined by the Federal 

376
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,360
Reserve and the Federal Reserve 
controls the discount rate and 

377
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,480
they think they're better than 
the market, you know, at setting

378
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,200
the price of money. 
And I mean, this is ridiculous 

379
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,320
because this is like, you know, 
the the Politburo back in Russia

380
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,360
in the 60s and 70s or 50s, 
sixties and 70s, they would set 

381
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:10,800
the price of grain. 
If they set it too high, you 

382
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,040
know they they ended up with, 
you know, way too much grain. 

383
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,720
If they set it too low, they 
ended up with no grain. 

384
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,560
And you know you can't. 
You can't have central planning 

385
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,120
of prices. 
It just doesn't work. 

386
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,440
You know, the way the way 
economy should work is prices 

387
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,360
should be set by balancing 
supply and demand and the 

388
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,280
interest rate price should be 
set by the balancing of, you 

389
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,560
know, the supply of savings is 
against the demand for 

390
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,040
investment. 
And the the government of the 

391
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,600
central bank should have 
absolutely nothing to do with 

392
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,480
it. 
They should be out of the 

393
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,160
picture. 
But because we got away from 

394
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,080
that, we've created this 
enormous boom buffs Keynesian 

395
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,120
cycle on this, this monetary 
rube gold machine, which is kind

396
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:53,040
of out of control and and and we
keep, you know, doing these 

397
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,960
bigger and bigger swings and you
know, eventually we're going to 

398
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,000
one of them's going to be so big
the whole thing's going to blow 

399
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,480
up. 
And I think we're getting closer

400
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,720
to that. 
You know, witness the growth in 

401
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,240
the Fed's balance sheet, witness
the, you know, inflation that 

402
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,560
we're experiencing etcetera. 
I think that, you know, they're 

403
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,040
gonna have a very hard time 
containing, you know, the 

404
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,240
problem they've got because 
we've now gotten to the point 

405
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,640
where you know these these 
geometric functions are 

406
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,040
compounding very, very rapidly. 
And you know anybody who knows 

407
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,560
math and understands you know 
compounding of a series of 

408
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,000
numbers recognize that 
eventually it goes asymptotic 

409
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:34,440
almost vertical and and so you 
know we we've got, we've got 

410
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,040
we're right in the in my opinion
we've got and are right in the 

411
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,640
middle of a very severe debt 
crisis and most of the world has

412
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,360
not woken up to that yet. 
And as more and more of the 

413
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,960
world does wake up to that yet, 
or does wake up to that fact, 

414
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,760
they're going to become more 
aware that what they need to do 

415
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,560
with their savings is to save 
money and things that the 

416
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,600
government can't print. 
The government can't print 

417
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,880
Bitcoin, the government can't 
print gold, the government can't

418
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,760
print silver, the government 
can't print real estate and the 

419
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,240
government can't print Apple 
stock. 

420
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,080
So but, you know, the government
can print bonds. 

421
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,040
They they issue bonds and the 
bondholder is the sucker at the 

422
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,480
table. 
They're going to lose a lot of 

423
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,760
money because there's going to 
be a lot of inflation in this in

424
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,280
this hyper, you know this. 
I mean as I say they they're 

425
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,640
printing and because of the way 
the cycle works, every cycle 

426
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,760
they have to print more and it 
gets worse and worse and worse 

427
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,520
and worse until eventually the 
whole thing blows up. 

428
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,960
And so I my personal view is the
whole thing will blow up 

429
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,440
probably in 20-30 sometime 
between 2030 and 2035. 

430
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,240
You know we got a few more 
swings back and forth but we're 

431
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,720
headed in that direction. 
Yeah, so. 

432
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,280
So when I maybe this is a dummy 
question, but a dummy question 

433
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,600
is is good I. 
Think No, there's no there's no 

434
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:51,960
dumb question. 
No, no, exactly. 

435
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,040
But I think when I think 
rationally about it, when you 

436
00:22:54,040 --> 00:23:00,280
talked about the weed, right, 
there is a base layer demand for

437
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,320
weed, right. 
So why or grain or whatever, 

438
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,200
right, any, any, any commodity, 
why do you need to influence 

439
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,400
that with certain settings of 
prices etcetera like it just 

440
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,360
that doesn't make sense to me, 
right. 

441
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,280
And when you say these people 
want growth at all costs, it 

442
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,720
feels for me they are talking 
about price, right, they are 

443
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,000
talking about units. 
And so as we previously just 

444
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,680
said, like it's not that's not 
value, that's just amount, 

445
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,280
that's just phenomenal. 
Right. 

446
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,040
The price is not the underlying 
units, right? 

447
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,680
Yeah, exactly. 
So this, these these people are 

448
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,480
lying to themselves, right? 
Well, like from the core from 

449
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,760
the start of of how they see an 
economic system. 

450
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,520
But as you said, they then use 
these arguments like we have to 

451
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,160
go back to what did you say 
about certain motivation, like 

452
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,320
nature's what? 
Animal spirits, yeah, that was 

453
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,240
animal spirit. 
That was a phrase that Keynes 

454
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,560
used and and others have used 
that said, you know, animal 

455
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,920
spirits were dead in the 
depression. 

456
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,880
We should have printed more 
money, you know, and that's. 

457
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,120
Yeah, but it's so it sounds so 
weird to me that you would like,

458
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:18,720
incentivize natural like 
motivation to to create or 

459
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:24,200
contribute value based on a set 
of numbers or something like it.

460
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,600
Just it doesn't. 
Make sense to me. 

461
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,920
The other thing they said is 
they said wages are sticky. 

462
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,120
And I mean here's one thing that
does argue in their favor. 

463
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:36,200
I mean, not not in their favor, 
but one part of their people 

464
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,480
feel better when quote UN quote 
number goes up. 

465
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,320
So in other words, if you if you
own a house and there's a lot of

466
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:49,280
inflation and every year the 
value of your house goes up, you

467
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,040
know, it might not, it's the 
same house, right, each year, 

468
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,520
but the price of it's going up 
because there's inflation that 

469
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,480
makes you feel good, right? 
I mean, I have this asset that's

470
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,000
nominally going up in value. 
In real terms, it might not be 

471
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,080
going up in value at all because
it's it's just an inflation 

472
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,160
effect. 
But same thing with wages. 

473
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,800
I mean, if you're if you're a 
worker and you live in an 

474
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,720
inflationary world, you know, if
you know one year you're making 

475
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,480
$30,000 and the next year you're
making $35,000, well, I got a 

476
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,120
raise now may turn out that 
everything you buy. 

477
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,320
Yeah. 
And that's good, right. 

478
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,760
It may turn out that everything 
you buy and what is that? 

479
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,600
That's like 15% raise except 
that maybe everything you bought

480
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,000
just went up 20%. 
So really in terms, in real 

481
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,280
terms you're actually behind, 
but the point is the the the 

482
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,120
human beings and human minds 
like to see the numbers go up, 

483
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,880
right? 
And and in a really sound money 

484
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,240
system, the numbers wouldn't go 
up as much but but you'd have a 

485
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,520
slightly different situation. 
Your wages might be flat, but 

486
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,520
the cost of everything you buy 
would be falling. 

487
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,840
In points, yeah. 
You'd have a, you'd have a more 

488
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,400
deflationary outlook so that, 
you know, OK, so, so instead of 

489
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,360
making 35, you're making 30. 
But because of all the the the 

490
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,640
productivity and the sound money
and the transparency that's 

491
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,840
taking place, You know, you used
to go and buy, you know, 

492
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,200
hamburger for $5 a pound and you
know, things have gotten more 

493
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,280
efficient and now Hamburger's 
$4.00 a pound, so your 30,000 

494
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,760
goes further than it did before.
So it's kind of an adjustment of

495
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,040
mindset that people have to get 
used to, you know, the the way 

496
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,920
the world will look on a sound 
money standard. 

497
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,040
I mean if you go back and study 
the 1800s, I mean it's really 

498
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,320
kind of amazing actually. 
I mean there were, you know, you

499
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,440
look at the price of like, you 
know, in fact somebody ran a, 

500
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,880
there was a presidential 
campaign went. 

501
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,880
So you know, what this world 
needs is a good 10 cent cigar 

502
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,360
because, you know, cigars cost 
$0.10 for a long, long, long 

503
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,640
period of time. 
And then there was a burst of 

504
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,200
inflation and they went up to 15
or $0.20 and of course everybody

505
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,960
hated the inflation. 
And so a guy ran, I can't recall

506
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,080
the guy's name, but I should 
look it up. 

507
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,520
I can Google it and find it, but
you know what? 

508
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,880
What this, what this country 
really needs is a good $0.10 

509
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,760
cigar, which was a, you know, 
kind of a, a casual way of 

510
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,760
saying, you know, we got to stop
inflation. 

511
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,520
You know, I mean, I mean, I 
mean, truly there were, there 

512
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,400
were things that you look at the
price of a lot of things in the 

513
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,320
1800s, they didn't change. 
The price was the same. 

514
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,000
But what happened is people got 
much more efficient and they 

515
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,880
earned more money. 
So their living standards went 

516
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,600
up greatly. 
I mean the one of the greatest 

517
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,920
increases in living standards in
the world occurred during the 

518
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,000
Industrial Revolution from kind 
of 1800 to you know, 19, 40. 

519
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,840
I mean I, you know, it just we 
and it was a lot of things. 

520
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,040
It was technology, it was cars, 
radio, you know, etcetera. 

521
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560
But the but the point is that, 
you know, I mean in in the 

522
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,920
1800s, you know, a lot of the 
world were kind of poor dirt 

523
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,360
farmers. 
I mean there wasn't, you know, 

524
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,640
there wasn't except for unless 
you were a fuel Lord or had, you

525
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,320
know, a huge landowner or 
royalty. 

526
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,200
You know, most people were kind 
of scraping it by, scraping by, 

527
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,360
you know, in the early 1800s, 
whereas by, you know, the early 

528
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:50,120
1900s, you know, most people, 
not most, not not everybody. 

529
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,520
But a lot of people had three 
squares and a house over their 

530
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,560
head. 
And, you know, they were, they 

531
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,720
were, they were living OK, So 
and and and that was, that was 

532
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,200
during a period where monetary 
inflation was extremely low, you

533
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,240
know, with a with a brief 
exception of the Civil War where

534
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,520
they printed a lot of greenbacks
and kind of messed things up. 

535
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,400
And so when you were 12, what 
did the breadth cost? 

536
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,040
Remember bread? 
I'll tell you the number that 

537
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,120
was very meaningful to me, 
though, because I remember it 

538
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,200
very clearly. 
I used to buy it all the time. 

539
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,480
Gasoline when I was a kid was 
$0.25 a gallon. 

540
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,760
So, yeah, and so. 
Why is it a joke? 

541
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,360
Well, let's take the gas, right?
Like, why is it a joke when 

542
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,920
people say like, oh, the bread 
used to be $0.25 or the gas used

543
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,720
to be $0.25, right? 
Like that. 

544
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,680
This is the entire point, I 
think. 

545
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,920
Also Jeff Booth makes right the 
fact that if you agree to the 

546
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,360
rational argument that if we 
approve technology prices. 

547
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,360
Should fall. 
They should. 

548
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,960
They should fall, yeah. 
And a bread is now $5.00. 

549
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,080
I don't know about a gallon of 
gas, but isn't this what we 

550
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,760
should, like explain to people 
that the entire point is we 

551
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,440
were, it's like we are going 
back in time, like very far away

552
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,040
in time, right? 
Because yeah, we already had. 

553
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,680
The biggest, the biggest thing 
and and and this is where I 

554
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,000
think there's so much anger in 
the world and I understand it, 

555
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,160
is that you know, living 
standards would and will 

556
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,640
improve. 
The sounder the money is, the 

557
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,600
more likely you know, the right 
signals get sent and the right 

558
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,760
things get done and the economy 
works better. 

559
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,840
I mean, unsound money finances 
the wars. 

560
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,800
I mean, the United States spent 
trillions of dollars on useless 

561
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,880
wars. 
I mean, imagine if those 

562
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,840
trillions of dollars have been 
invested in education or nuclear

563
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,200
power or, you know, just 
infrastructure. 

564
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,880
Do you know what I mean? 
I mean, the unsound money has 

565
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,080
all these terrible incentives 
and you see people, you know, 

566
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,560
gambling and you know, doing 
very speculative stuff. 

567
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,440
There's there's not you know the
the if if if things are priced 

568
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,720
correctly people will might make
the right economic decisions 

569
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,880
they don't get misled into doing
the wrong thing and so and that 

570
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,000
and that's you know an economy 
is all about efficiency. 

571
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,840
I mean what we what we all want 
to do is we all want more and we

572
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,520
want it to cost less and the we 
have the greatest chance of 

573
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,120
having real efficiency when we 
have money to sound because it 

574
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,960
allows people to plan and think 
and coordinate. 

575
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,800
I mean you know I I like the the
model I mean it's like you know 

576
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,040
if you were a builder and you 
were building a house you know 

577
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,480
you obviously use a tape measure
you know to to measure the 

578
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,760
dimensions of the house and this
imagine if the tape measure is 

579
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,000
shrinking or growing 5% a year 
like because of inflation how's 

580
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,840
that house going to get built. 
It's just I mean it's it's just 

581
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,680
not. 
I mean you've got you need to 

582
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,920
have standards and you know 
people make economic 

583
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,920
calculations based on standards 
and if they don't know what the 

584
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,160
money is going to be worth and 
if they're or if they're afraid 

585
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,960
that it's going to continually 
be worth less, you know they'll 

586
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:01,320
end up making the wrong choices.
So it's it's it's a little hard 

587
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,440
to get your head around but if 
you study it, you know in depth 

588
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,760
as I have for a long period of 
time, you can really see that 

589
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,160
it's kind of a core issue. 
It's sound money you know and 

590
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,080
and it's and like I say I I 
don't think that most of the 

591
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,800
world doesn't understand it. 
But I think that I sincerely 

592
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,040
believe and I think those of us 
who've studied the Austrian 

593
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,600
economists who studied it will 
tell you that sound money would 

594
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,800
go a long way to solving a lot 
of the world's ills. 

595
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,240
It really would. 
It would provide the right 

596
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:34,280
incentives and you know and it 
would probably be anti war. 

597
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,560
I mean you know I mean part of 
the reason I mean the 

598
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,240
government's running huge 
deficits. 

599
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,720
You know so we're we're paying 
in the United States. 

600
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:41,920
I'm sure it's true in Holland 
too. 

601
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,960
I mean depends if you live in a 
high tax state in the United 

602
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,160
States and you're in the you 
know you're doing well, you're 

603
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,800
making good money. 
You're probably paying half of 

604
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,280
what you make to the government 
and then the other half is 

605
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,920
probably getting debased at 10 
to 15% a year with inflation. 

606
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,680
So we all, we all know the 
government really does the 

607
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,720
government doesn't produce 
anything and the government just

608
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,440
you know sits there and it's a 
Leech. 

609
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,360
I mean they they do do one thing
that is actually very, very 

610
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,600
important. 
If I were to, you know, if I 

611
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,240
were king of the world, I mean I
would I had a chance to set up 

612
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,640
government. 
We we need a government to have 

613
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,720
a system of laws and courts and 
regulation. 

614
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,000
I mean somebody's got to me 
there's one role for the 

615
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,520
government and that's to be the 
referee. 

616
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,440
So that, you know, criminals get
put in jail and the laws get 

617
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,720
followed and the courts 
determine who's a criminal and 

618
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,520
all that and and and you know, 
and maybe maybe natural defense,

619
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,520
assuming that there are some bad
actors in the world but like 

620
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480
over time with sound money, the 
bad actors would go away and you

621
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,520
wouldn't have to spend as much 
money on National Defense. 

622
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,880
And so you know what my my sense
is that, you know, probably 10% 

623
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,560
of all our incomes, we could 
have a really good police force,

624
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,920
really good courts, really fair 
judicial system that kind of 

625
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,080
keeps the playing field level so
that nobody can cheat. 

626
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,160
And that's the role of 
government. 

627
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,040
If you if you had that and and 
imagine, think about it, you 

628
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,680
know look at yourself, look at 
how much money you make. 

629
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,960
Imagine if suddenly all that 
money you paid in taxes, you you

630
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,920
didn't have to pay that. 
You only you know you make what 

631
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,720
you make today but only 10% of 
it went to the government. 

632
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,880
The rest was yours. 
I mean, you know that alone. 

633
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,920
I mean, your living standards 
would go up substantially, 

634
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,880
right? 
Yeah. 

635
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,320
And it's so fascinating. 
Again, for someone without an 

636
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,080
economics background, my 
rational thought goes to when 

637
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440
you, and by the way, when you 
say sound money, right. 

638
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,840
For also the people listening, 
sound money is money that is 

639
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,600
hard to produce, correct. 
So that is even right? 

640
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,040
And when it's hard limited in 
supply or let's say low stock to

641
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,040
flow ratio? 
Yeah. 

642
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,240
So it's hard to produce and 
therefore it's scarce, right? 

643
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,960
Right. 
In my rational mind, I initially

644
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,920
go to well, if it's hard to 
create, it's also hard to 

645
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,560
obtain. 
So I am forced to deliver enough

646
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,200
value so someone else that would
be my customer or my boss for a 

647
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,800
job would actually part ways 
with that. 

648
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,160
Sounds money, right? 
So there you immediately create 

649
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,440
the incentive to actually 
deliver failure, right? 

650
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,960
Whereas on the other side, the 
soft money that is easy to 

651
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,960
create. 
If you have a job, as you just 

652
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,880
mentioned, right. 
And you know that half of that 

653
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,120
goes to the government, why 
would you add value to that job,

654
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,880
right. 
Like why, why would you not be? 

655
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,800
I don't know how to call that. 
Like they call those people like

656
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,920
a tourists, right? 
Or like some people just, you 

657
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,000
know, they they flow through 
life without, you know, not 

658
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,360
doing anything of value. 
Which of course is a pity, just 

659
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:28,679
you know, for your existence in 
a sense, right. 

660
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:32,360
But that is what that money 
incentivizes it. 

661
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,920
It disincentivizes adding value,
basically, right? 

662
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,159
Because you know it's. 
Certainly some of that. 

663
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:39,560
Yeah, There's certainly some of 
that. 

664
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,360
And also, you know, I think I 
agree with, I agree with what 

665
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,159
you said. 
Like what? 

666
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:45,639
What could the role of a state 
be in? 

667
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:51,320
Therefore, I don't think most 
people would be against paying 

668
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,360
taxes, right? 
Because if the government gets 

669
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,280
paid taxes in that hard money, 
they have to deliver value or 

670
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,960
else people will not pay 
anymore, right? 

671
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,680
That makes a lot of. 
Sense for me. 

672
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,160
Well and as I said earlier, the 
inflation is a big hidden tax. 

673
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,120
I mean it's not just the taxes 
we pay, it's after. 

674
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,120
Yeah, right. 
The inflation diminishes 

675
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,960
everything else. 
So it's you know and and and I 

676
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,800
mean imagine, you know and This 
is why I think it's anti war. 

677
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,440
Imagine a world where, you know,
the government, you know, they 

678
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,960
couldn't finance wars through 
inflation. 

679
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,720
So they, you know, hey, we want 
to go have a war. 

680
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,280
You know, your taxes are going 
to go up 35%. 

681
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,040
Well, my sense is that the 
voters would say, you know, 

682
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,080
screw that. 
I'm not parting ways my I. 

683
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,360
Don't want to have a war? 
Exactly. 

684
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,600
Yeah, exactly. 
Grab 35% more my income. 

685
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,280
Forget about it. 
I'm not interested in that. 

686
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,520
So when when people say you know
if the government can print 

687
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,840
money, why would you pay taxes? 
Is that funny? 

688
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,560
Does it make sense Exactly? 
Right. 

689
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,480
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's the
whole point. 

690
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,960
Yeah, that's the whole point. 
I mean, and and and by the way, 

691
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,840
we're getting a lot closer to 
that point. 

692
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,440
I mean, the COVID thing, the 
United States, I think it was 

693
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,160
true in your country as well, 
really tested that. 

694
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,480
I mean, I, you know, I know 
wealthy people got these PPP 

695
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,080
loans. 
I mean, everybody got a stimulus

696
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,280
check. 
I mean, you know, sadly a lot of

697
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,600
that money went to places it 
didn't need to go. 

698
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,320
And you know, they printed 
trillions of dollars and, you 

699
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,000
know, gave every family, I don't
know, a $1400 check or 

700
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,960
something. 
I mean it's kind of like and yet

701
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,360
they were bailing out companies 
with millions and millions of 

702
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,680
dollars. 
So you know the the system is 

703
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,640
very broken, very crony 
capitalist. 

704
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,040
I mean and the other thing about
that we haven't really talked 

705
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,520
about is the way that the the 
money gets made and the way that

706
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,000
they, you know, they keep these 
interest rates artificially low.

707
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,200
What that leads to is 
contillionaires. 

708
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,240
And So what I mean by that is, 
you know if you're on Wall 

709
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:42,680
Street, you can borrow at 0% and
you take your money and you go 

710
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,360
put it into an asset that yields
you 10 or 15%, well that's a 

711
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,440
license to print money. 
I mean that's a license to get 

712
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,760
rich. 
And you know, it's kind of like 

713
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,600
nice work if you can get it. 
The problem is you and I can't 

714
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,080
go and borrow at 0%. 
You know, our credit cards, they

715
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,160
charge you 18% or 20%. 
And it's it's the big, powerful 

716
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,360
vested interests that are able 
to go to the Federal Reserve and

717
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,400
borrow money at a very, very low
rate. 

718
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,960
Yeah, exactly. 
And that's why we, that's why 

719
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,560
we've had this enormous growth 
in, in wealth, you know, 

720
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,240
disparity. 
I mean, when I was a kid, you 

721
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:17,680
know, the CEO of one of the big 
auto companies lived on the 

722
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,920
street from us. 
And you know, I don't know, the 

723
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,520
guy on the line was probably 
making 50,000 a year and I don't

724
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,920
know that CEO is probably making
250,000 a year. 

725
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,720
He's probably making five times 
as much money. 

726
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,680
But you know, I think today if 
you did those same numbers, the 

727
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,600
guy on the line is probably 
making 80 or 100,000 a year. 

728
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,280
He's a pretty high skilled line 
worker. 

729
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,800
That CEO is probably making $45 
million. 

730
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,600
You know, I mean it's it's, it's
just, I mean the people, the 

731
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,600
people who are running the 
system at the top are just 

732
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,000
robbing everybody else, you 
know, because because they're 

733
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,240
closer to the money spigot, so. 
And again, irrational thoughts, 

734
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,000
right? 
Like that guy on the line is 

735
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:58,600
probably expending more energy 
than the men than the CEO, 

736
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:59,560
right? 
So Oh yeah. 

737
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,720
And they both got different 
skill sets. 

738
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:05,920
I mean, you know, that's true. 
I mean, you know, a good CEO is 

739
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,520
disparity, good CEO is worth, 
like you're paying them. 

740
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,160
But the point is that, you know,
I mean there are a lot of other 

741
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,760
pieces of that too. 
That CEO has got stock options 

742
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,160
and stock options are inflated 
because they're doing buybacks 

743
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,880
and they're using leverage and 
you know, blah, blah, blah. 

744
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,640
I mean there's so many, you 
know, this Fiat money has led to

745
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,400
so many games. 
And I'll give you a good example

746
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,520
of the United States. 
General Electric used to be one 

747
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,200
of the finest companies in 
United States, right. 

748
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,720
It was around, you know, I mean 
it's founded by Thomas Edison, 

749
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:33,080
right. 
It was around for 100 plus years

750
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,880
and you know, they were great in
all of the industries they were 

751
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,680
in. 
And then, you know, a couple of 

752
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,680
CEOs got in there who were 
financial engineers and they 

753
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,680
levered the shit out of it and 
they gave themselves a lot of 

754
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,960
stock options. 
And the last guy, Jeff Immelt, 

755
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,520
you know, made 6700 million, 
$1,000,000 on his stock options.

756
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,800
And the company's a shell of its
former self. 

757
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,680
It's highly leveraged and you 
know, in debt. 

758
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,080
The stock has performed poorly. 
And I know GE retirees who've 

759
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,720
had their retirements whacked 
back because the company's done 

760
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,280
so poorly. 
So, you know, and and that's 

761
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,520
that's just an example, but 
that's kind of an example of the

762
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,560
Fiat incentives and how they've 
let people game the system in 

763
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,880
their own favor. 
I mean, it's nice for just ML, 

764
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,200
you know, he's building a $50 
million house on Nantucket. 

765
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,440
But you know, what about the 
what about the guy who worked 

766
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,600
his whole life at General 
Electric and thought he was 

767
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,080
going to have a pension? 
It was going to be worth X 

768
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,880
dollars, and instead it's worth 
.4 X dollars. 

769
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,440
Do you know what I mean? 
I mean, and that's that kind. 

770
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,280
That's just one example. 
There's there are hundreds of 

771
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:35,600
those. 
Hundreds of those. 

772
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,120
I mean the system. 
Is. 

773
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,040
And that's, and by the way, 
that's why the electorate is 

774
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,240
just so the United States is so 
completely and utterly pissed 

775
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:44,360
off. 
And I can't blame them. 

776
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,520
I mean it's, you know, it's it's
unfair. 

777
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,600
What's happened is incredibly 
unfair. 

778
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,120
And the the problem is, the sad 
part of it all is, is that, you 

779
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:53,680
know, the right to be pissed 
off. 

780
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,160
But they don't, they don't 
really understand the base 

781
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,240
problem, the cause of the base 
problem, you know, I mean, and 

782
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,720
that's where I think it's 
incumbent upon bitcoiners and 

783
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:05,520
sound money people, you know, to
try and educate them that if 

784
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,960
they really want to solve this 
problem at the base, they've got

785
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,360
it. 
We've got to fight for a sound 

786
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,600
money, sound money standard, you
know? 

787
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,200
Maybe as a last example of this 
topic, what I like is if you go 

788
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,400
to tradingview.com and you look 
up the NASDAQ and you put it in 

789
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,600
the USD, then it's probably all 
time high somewhere around, 

790
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,560
right? 
And so as we talked about that 

791
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,320
is the price, right, the amount 
of units but not the value. 

792
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,160
And then if you didn't, if you 
denominate the NASDAQ in M2, 

793
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,560
which is the money supply, so 
the amount of units, then you 

794
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:45,080
see, and that's wild, that's the
value of the NASDAQ now is lower

795
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,320
than at the height of the.com 
bubble. 

796
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,400
I was like, I haven't done that 
term. 

797
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,640
It doesn't surprise me. 
Look that up. 

798
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,080
Yeah, but rationally, we would 
disagree, right? 

799
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,600
We would disagree. 
Like obviously we have better 

800
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,120
technology than at the height of
the.com bubble of. 

801
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,920
Course we do, yeah. 
But the value is lower. 

802
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,200
And again that that goes to the 
whole number goes up, right. 

803
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,600
I mean, people feel really good 
about that NASDAQ number, but 

804
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,160
what they don't realize is, you 
know, that's why they're paying,

805
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,440
you know, much more for 
everything they buy every day 

806
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,240
because of the monetary 
inflation. 

807
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,760
Oops, Graham, I can't hear you. 
Did you are you did you hit 

808
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,800
mute? 
Accidentally muted myself. 

809
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,640
So you studied this a lot, 
right? 

810
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,600
But who? 
Who are what has been most 

811
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,000
influential in like shaping your
views? 

812
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,560
About a lot of money racing 
economists, I mean von Mises and

813
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,240
you know so on and so forth. 
But I would say that, you know I

814
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:47,640
think the one book that I give 
out to a lot of people and I 

815
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,800
think it's a very good primer on
the subject and then it takes 

816
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,600
you into Bitcoin is and I really
do think it's a book that has 

817
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,640
changed and will continue to 
change the world and that is the

818
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,800
Bitcoin standard by Safedine 
Amos. 

819
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,720
I mean I I guess kind of that 
ought to be must reading for 

820
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:05,360
every student of economics 
politics etcetera. 

821
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,880
You know, it just it very 
crisply lays out everything you 

822
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,200
and I have discussed with a lot 
of numbers and support and you 

823
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,480
know, and then it and it also 
does a nice job then of of 

824
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,440
segwaying into what you and I 
both know is the solution which 

825
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,120
is Bitcoin. 
And so that's the Bitcoin 

826
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,360
standard. 
Safedine Amos. 

827
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,880
I mean I I I think it's a book 
that will change the world has 

828
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,680
been one of probably one of the 
most important economic books 

829
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,320
written in the last 20 years. 
And so I I feel like absolutely 

830
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,160
everybody has to read it. 
And when you read it and you 

831
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,800
understand it, you really can't 
Unsee it. 

832
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,680
Do you know what I mean? 
It's kind of like, oh, I get it 

833
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,240
And you know you you you get to 
where you are and where I am, 

834
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:46,200
which is all right. 
This is the problem and this is 

835
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,040
how we're going to solve it. 
And and the good news is, I mean

836
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,960
I'm, I'm complaining about all 
this stuff and talking about how

837
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,680
broken it is. 
But I'm actually quite 

838
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,240
optimistic that we are going in 
the right direction because our 

839
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,680
numbers are growing the the 
Bitcoin value is going up and 

840
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,480
more people coming into Bitcoin,
I mean and and the the existing 

841
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,520
Keynesian monetary system is in 
the process of failing. 

842
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,440
And as a result of the fact that
it's failing you know it will be

843
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,120
replaced by a much better 
system. 

844
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,440
So, you know, the the, the, the,
the failure will have bumps in 

845
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,640
it and it may not be entirely 
pleasant for any of us, but but 

846
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,520
we can get, you know, we'll get 
to the other side. 

847
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,480
And I'm quite optimized. 
My kids are. 

848
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:26,920
I have three kids. 
They're all in their 20s. 

849
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,600
When you get to the other side, 
I'm quite optimistic that we 

850
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,760
will in the next 5 or 10 years 
and that when we do, the world 

851
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,080
will look a lot better and that,
you know, my kids futures will 

852
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,440
look much more. 
You know, the way I felt my 

853
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,800
future was in the 70s. 
I mean there's some bad things 

854
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,960
going around in the 70s of the 
Vietnam War particularly. 

855
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,200
But other than that, 70s were a 
very hopeful time in America. 

856
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,160
It was a, it was a good, you 
know, there were a lot of baby 

857
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,960
boomers. 
We were all, you know, there's a

858
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,320
big middle class, you know, 
nobody was super rich, but we 

859
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,800
were all getting by and it was 
a, you know, it was a nice time 

860
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,080
to be an American and I think 
we've lost a lot of that. 

861
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,880
And for before we jump into the 
topic of of Bitcoin, what is 

862
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,080
your definition of wealth and 
why should millennials care 

863
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,760
about it? 
Well, so probably at the top of 

864
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,040
the list is your physical 
health, because if you don't 

865
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,680
have your physical health, you 
don't have anything. 

866
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,720
So I think that, you know, it's,
you know, I'm kind of a workout 

867
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:25,720
freak. 
I I think that, you know, you 

868
00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:29,960
get given this one body and you 
got to take care of it and it, 

869
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,880
you know, when you're young 
that's not as important because 

870
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,480
you've got a lot of leeway in 
terms of, you know, you're just 

871
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,160
you're young and strong and 
everything's going in your 

872
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,920
direction. 
But I'll tell you when you're 

873
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,920
quite young, but when you get to
be 50, you know, you're going 

874
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,480
to, you're going to, you're 
faced with making a lot of 

875
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,920
choices. 
And you can either decide you're

876
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,800
going to work hard to stay in 
shape, which I think will then 

877
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,280
make your sixties, 70s and 80s 
pleasant and decide you can just

878
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,360
let yourself go. 
You're gonna find a lot more 

879
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,080
discomfort, you know, in terms 
of, you know, just, you know, 

880
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,920
knee replacements and all kinds 
of things. 

881
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,840
So. 
So I I would say the first thing

882
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,040
about wealth is, you know, 
physical health. 

883
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,360
I'd say the second thing is just
personal freedom. 

884
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,720
You know, being in a country, in
a place where you can do what 

885
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:12,840
you want, you're not censored, 
you can speak freely. 

886
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,160
And for all of America's faults,
it's pretty good on that score, 

887
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,760
you know, so I think, I think 
that counts as wealth. 

888
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,760
I mean living in North Korea 
it'd be pretty hard to feel 

889
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,320
wealthy no matter how much money
you had you know And then beyond

890
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:32,040
that obviously you know dollars 
and and currency and and that 

891
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,720
you know they what they provide 
you with in my opinion is I mean

892
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:38,080
wealth is only good insofar as 
it can provide you with 

893
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,560
experiences and you know to take
care of your family, take care 

894
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,440
of your loved ones, do stuff 
that's meaningful work on 

895
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,440
projects that you believe in you
know etcetera etcetera. 

896
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,440
Because you know, and I mean 
really I guess above all of 

897
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,160
these the ultimate form of 
wealth is time. 

898
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,160
You know, because we all have 
limited time on this earth and 

899
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,400
so we all have time preferences 
and you know, somebody who's 20 

900
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,040
with no money is arguably 
wealthier than somebody who's 90

901
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,000
and loaded, right. 
Because they've got, you know, a

902
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,840
lot of runway to to live their 
life and the 90 year old has a 

903
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:17,600
limited runway. 
So, but yeah, exactly so you 

904
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,080
know, and so those who are 
young, you know, enjoy it and, 

905
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,000
you know, use your time wisely 
and and realize that you know, 

906
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,360
you're born in a for all the 
problems in the world. 

907
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,040
You were born in an age with 
just incredible technology and 

908
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,080
incredibly good stuff going on, 
incredible opportunities, 

909
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,480
etcetera. 
Now you got to figure out how to

910
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,920
play your cards, and you got a 
lot of lessons to learn that 

911
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,600
you'll only learn by, you know, 
making mistakes, right. 

912
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,200
And so, you know, get out there 
and make mistakes and get in the

913
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,080
game. 
But you know and and, you know, 

914
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,840
try to try to learn. 
You don't have to learn every 

915
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,240
lesson the hard way. 
You can ask people who've been 

916
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:58,640
through it before what they 
learned. 

917
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:03,560
And recognizing that, you know, 
there's there's knowledge. 

918
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,640
You know, when somebody who's 
older tells you something and 

919
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,360
they learn the hard way. 
I mean, maybe you don't learn it

920
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:08,840
quite as well if you don't learn
it the hard way. 

921
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,120
But I'm going to give you an 
example for me. 

922
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,800
You know, I drank a lot when I 
was younger and you know, I 

923
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,360
realized that wasn't taking me 
in the direction I wanted to go 

924
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,760
in. 
And so at 35 or mid 30s, I just 

925
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,360
quit drinking. 
And I I haven't drank since then

926
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,560
because it just, it doesn't 
really serve, you know my 

927
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,040
interests. 
And you know, I've tried to 

928
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,240
convince all my kids to do the 
same and they and they're not 

929
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:34,000
they, they drink still. 
But I think over time they may, 

930
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:35,440
they may come to where I am on 
this. 

931
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,240
I mean it's just I want to be 
healthy and you know, substance 

932
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:43,120
abuse is not something that I 
think goes along with being 

933
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,840
healthy. 
So, and I know a lot of other 

934
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,960
people my age who've come to the
same conclusion like it's, you 

935
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,560
know, I I highly recommend it. 
But but that's not to say I 

936
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,000
didn't drink in my 20s and 30s. 
I did so. 

937
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,560
So I, you know that I mean, you 
know, monetary wealth, I mean 

938
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,320
that's the last form of wealth 
and that's right. 

939
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,080
I mean what what it gives you. 
It gives you freedom, gives you 

940
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,000
the ability to control your 
circumstances to help others to,

941
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,960
you know, to to be to live in a 
way that's you know that you 

942
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,200
that that's comfortable and and 
that's there's nothing wrong 

943
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,920
with that. 
I mean, you know, I mean, I 

944
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,160
don't think we're all put here 
to suffer, you know, I I think 

945
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,760
we need to have discipline and 
be prepared to suffer. 

946
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,080
You know, when it comes to 
things like staying in shape, 

947
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,600
but or, you know, being 
demanding of ourselves to to 

948
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,360
perform well, 'cause I think, 
and we're all put here for a 

949
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,840
purpose. 
And so we've got to, we've got 

950
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,880
to live out our purpose in the 
best way we can, you know. 

951
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,200
And that's what our legacy would
be. 

952
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,520
Well, you know what? 
What, What? 

953
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,480
What did that life mean? 
You know, what did you do? 

954
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,200
So. 
Yeah, I agree. 

955
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,080
Thanks for sharing that and 
well, a legacy part I think is 

956
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,480
of course Bitcoin. 
I think this is a nice segue 

957
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:03,080
into into Bitcoin. 
So I've tweeted repeatedly about

958
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,520
the fact, you know, that 
understanding Bitcoin is not 

959
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,920
about intelligence. 
And I saw you liked a tweet to 

960
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,640
that said Bitcoin is not a test 
of someone's intellectual 

961
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,680
capability, but a test of 
someone's humility, humbleness 

962
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,280
and ego. 
And to me, you know, like people

963
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:25,600
like like you for example, and 
like Bob Burnett also James, you

964
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,160
know, like a little bit older, 
But people who are, you know, 

965
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,360
successful in a money system 
that we now understand is 

966
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,480
broken. 
Like people, people like you who

967
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,280
did like a 180 in their 
understanding and beliefs like 

968
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,120
on money and and what we just 
talked about, right. 

969
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,640
And and now see Bitcoin like, 
for me that's the highest 

970
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,640
signal. 
Because I know that like that 

971
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,360
everyone in Bitcoin goes through
that personal journey. 

972
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,280
But I think a. 
Lot of my friends have been 

973
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:00,560
extremely successful in a Fiat 
world in a Fiat sense and they 

974
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,720
just can't wrap their arms 
around this and it threatens 

975
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:08,240
them And it's you know, it's you
know it's just it's it's it's 

976
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,920
outside of their level of 
understanding and you know and 

977
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:17,560
they want to force it to to fit 
into their world model and you 

978
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,640
know nobody forces Bitcoin to do
anything. 

979
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,800
I mean you just you have to kind
of understand it and accept it. 

980
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:28,440
It is what it is and and so you 
know I and I've always pulled a 

981
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,720
lot of people and a lot of them 
came at it being very skeptical 

982
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:33,720
and and somewhat rightly so. 
I get it. 

983
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,480
I mean FTXI think scared a lot 
of people. 

984
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,320
It's all that stuff. 
It's just scam shit, you know. 

985
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,960
I mean Sam Beckman Free did 
Bitcoin a big disservice. 

986
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,560
I've delayed the adoption in my 
opinion by multiple years. 

987
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,520
But you know, once you've sit 
down and really spend the time 

988
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,440
to to read it and understand it 
and think it through, you know, 

989
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,800
you can change your mind. 
It becomes obvious. 

990
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,280
I mean, I think it's, I think 
it's to his credit, you know, 

991
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,400
Sailor will, every now and then 
he'll retweet his 2013 tweet 

992
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,800
where he said he thought Bitcoin
was a scam, you know, and I 

993
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,120
mean, so he's a smart guy. 
He looked at it. 

994
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,640
He thought it was a scam. 
But he kept reading, kept 

995
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,080
thinking, kept analyzing it. 
And and he came back and he 

996
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,200
said, you know what? 
I was wrong. 

997
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,240
I misread this thing and that. 
You know that to me. 

998
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,040
I mean, the superior intellect 
will change their views and 

999
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,840
change their position when 
presented with contradictory 

1000
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,320
evidence. 
And we've now got a lot of 

1001
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,680
contradictory evidence. 
I mean, I was wrong in 2013. 

1002
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,120
I thought it wasn't gonna work. 
I thought you. 

1003
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,680
Yeah. 
Yeah, so what's? 

1004
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,840
What? 
Did you have to challenge? 

1005
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:43,160
I was very much I I got what it 
was. 

1006
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,600
I got that it was sound money. 
And I think sound money's a good

1007
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,000
thing. 
And I was an Austrian economist.

1008
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:51,480
I mean, I I got all of that. 
In my particular case, I was an 

1009
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:56,360
investor in technologies from 19
early 1980s to 2005. 

1010
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,600
I invested in all kinds of 
computers, disk drives, tech, 

1011
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,160
you know, the the.com bubble. 
I did well with that. 

1012
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,160
And, you know, I'd been around 
computers enough, and I wasn't a

1013
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,200
computer scientist by any 
stretch of the imagination, but 

1014
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,640
I invested in them, and I knew 
enough about computers to 

1015
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,480
recognize that computers were 
somewhat unstable. 

1016
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,880
And back in the old days, you 
know, IBMPC used to go blue 

1017
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,480
screen and. 
And what did you do when your 

1018
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:17,840
computer crash? 
You just unplugged it and 

1019
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,240
plugged it back in again. 
And you hope that, you know, you

1020
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,240
hope that the file you were 
working on had been saved 

1021
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:24,480
reasonably, you know, recently 
or so. 

1022
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,720
You didn't lose all your work. 
Right. 

1023
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,720
That happened a lot. 
And so I'm thinking to myself, 

1024
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:31,040
OK, we got this. 
We got this system where we've 

1025
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,040
got money on a computer and 
money is like really important. 

1026
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,880
You can't mess with it. 
It's got to, you know, you don't

1027
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,160
want to the computer crashes. 
You don't want your money to go 

1028
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,480
away. 
Right. 

1029
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,440
And so I I didn't, I didn't 
really understand the technical 

1030
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,240
construction. 
And and by the way, I've seen, 

1031
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:47,960
you know, the etymology. 
I've got to get the names of all

1032
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,920
these other types of of Bitcoin.
I'm going to find that chart and

1033
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,560
print it out. 
But I didn't really understand 

1034
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:55,960
that this was different than the
prior ones. 

1035
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,000
I didn't understand the having. 
I didn't understand blockchain. 

1036
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,920
I didn't understand Shaw 256. 
I mean all the all the things 

1037
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,120
that we now know accept and 
understand, I didn't really 

1038
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,080
understand them in the beginning
so I was convinced the 

1039
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,680
technology wouldn't work and and
I was. 

1040
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,880
And that that conviction 
actually was somewhat supported 

1041
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,680
by. 
I went to some of the MIT 

1042
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,440
Bitcoin meet ups and there were 
a couple core developers there 

1043
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,440
and I'd ask them actually what 
do you think about this Bitcoin 

1044
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,840
thing They said, well it's 
interesting, it's good, it's 

1045
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,000
kind of working. 
But to be honest with you, every

1046
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,880
time I make a change in the 
code, I think to myself, shit, I

1047
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,520
crashed the I'm going to crash 
the network. 

1048
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,680
I thought to myself, shit, I 
mean here's a guy who's a real 

1049
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,680
propellerhead PhD comp sci guy 
working on this monetary system 

1050
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,280
and he's worried about the 
network crashing and he knows 

1051
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,800
shit that I don't even know. 
So you know I mean this is 

1052
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,760
before the forks, this is before
the black sized wars, you know, 

1053
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,560
and I mean and there were back 
doors and problems with it that 

1054
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,960
they actually very fortuitously 
caught. 

1055
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,040
And so I think if you, you know,
I think if you went and I've 

1056
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:56,800
talked to Adam back, I mean I 
think if you went and talked to 

1057
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,880
anybody who's a technologist 
who's worked on this thing from 

1058
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,120
the beginning, they will all 
tell you that there are many, 

1059
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,560
many times early on when it was 
quite vulnerable and it wasn't 

1060
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,040
going to work. 
In fact you had a, you had kids 

1061
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,080
and others who made the mistake,
you know, they were mining it or

1062
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,520
they were involved with it, I 
mean and and they, you know, 

1063
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,560
when it was a dime or or $0.20 
or $0.30 and they so they had 

1064
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,000
10,000 of them and it became 
worth $2.00 and you know they 

1065
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,200
were in their 20s and and they 
said holy kodoley, I've got, 

1066
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:26,000
I've got $20,000 here. 
I need a car. 

1067
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,160
And so they sold 10,000 Bitcoin 
and bought a car. 

1068
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,160
You know what I mean? 
And obviously that, you know, 

1069
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,240
they're gonna experience regret 
over that for the rest of their 

1070
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,160
life, 'cause they didn't really 
understand, you know, what it 

1071
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,960
was in terms of a monetary, you 
know, medium. 

1072
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:42,360
But, you know, so, so my problem
with it was the technology. 

1073
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,640
But I, you know it, it just was 
kind of layered and my, my 

1074
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,920
knowledge kept growing, You 
know, the blocks kept going. 

1075
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,320
There were no problems. 
And you know it. 

1076
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,560
Just each each block each year 
each technical innovation SegWit

1077
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,120
etcetera. 
You know the getting to know 

1078
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,880
some of the core developers and 
understanding how it all 

1079
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,320
operates. 
You know I just watching the 

1080
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,040
nodes grow from you know a small
number of nodes to what are we 

1081
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,160
30,000 plus nodes today it's a 
lot you know kind of got me 

1082
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,600
comfortable that all right I now
believe that the the risk of 

1083
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,720
technical you know and sailor 
coming in he's a you know 

1084
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,720
aerospace you know engineer you 
know propellerhead super bright 

1085
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:22,400
guy and you know it meets his 
test. 

1086
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,680
I mean, I'm now of the opinion 
that the risk of a technical 

1087
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,520
failure is extremely low. 
It's not 0, but it's extremely 

1088
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:30,840
low. 
Yeah, so. 

1089
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,040
Did you have like a specific aha
moment where you were like, OK 

1090
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,200
now? 
Yeah, you know, you probably 

1091
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,280
drove that around me more than 
anything else was price. 

1092
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,200
I mean, so I tried to get in 
before 2013, but you had to go 

1093
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,880
to a cafe and give somebody 
money and it all seemed kind of 

1094
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,200
shady. 
And then I was then I was close 

1095
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:54,040
to buying some through Mount Cox
and unfortunately I I I would 

1096
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,760
kind of drag my feet and then 
Mount Cox failed everybody 

1097
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:58,560
there. 
And then it. 

1098
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,080
Then Coinbase came out and I 
think there'd been a run around 

1099
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,360
that time up to 1000. 
I thought oh shit, I missed it. 

1100
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,560
And then there was a correction.
It went from 1000 down to 3000. 

1101
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,720
OK, I get it. 
I know how this works by the 

1102
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:11,640
dip. 
So I went and bought my first 

1103
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,960
ones about about 300 and and 
then it, you know. 

1104
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,240
Then I went back to 1000 and I 
bought a few more and and then I

1105
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:20,680
really got pretty excited about 
it. 

1106
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,200
I don't know if you were around 
at the time but in 27 and I 

1107
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,520
went, I kept going to these meet
ups and stuff and learning. 

1108
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,680
I was buying it, but not a ton. 
In 2017, it really launched. 

1109
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,720
It broke out from 1000 and went 
to 17,000 and I was like, holy 

1110
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:36,880
shit, this is, I mean, we have 
not seen anything like this 

1111
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,120
before. 
I mean, this is a big deal. 

1112
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,800
And I was buying it at 17,000 
and then it fell back down to 10

1113
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,800
the next year. 
And then it fell at four, 3 1/2 

1114
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,160
for four the next year. 
And I bought both of those dips,

1115
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,320
you know, not knowing, kind of 
thinking to myself, I think this

1116
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:52,800
is right. 
I think I'm right about this, 

1117
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,920
but I'm recognizing I could 
still be wrong. 

1118
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,640
But I kept buying those dips and
then you know, it just, it kept,

1119
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,080
you know, I mean because I 
listened to all the talk, it was

1120
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,840
a bubble, it was a Tulip, it was
this that and I mean I get it, 

1121
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,280
you know, to me the the two 
risks have always been does it 

1122
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,320
does the technology blow up. 
I'm now over that risk in my 

1123
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,720
mind. 
I don't think the technology 

1124
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:15,760
blows up. 
I think the second risk and I 

1125
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,880
don't see much chance of this, 
but I think there is some chance

1126
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,120
is that everybody just loses 
interest in it. 

1127
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,600
I mean we need to have growing 
and continual adoption. 

1128
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,680
It needs to like a virus. 
It needs to spread, you know and

1129
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,560
suddenly everybody's an app, 
Bitcoin who gives a shit. 

1130
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,080
You know then that you know that
would be that wouldn't be good 

1131
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,840
and and it could kind of die 
away. 

1132
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,800
But you know all the numbers I 
look at, you know, you look at 

1133
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,640
the global hash. 
You look at the addresses. 

1134
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:42,760
You look at the wallet 
downloads. 

1135
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,560
A guy last night was telling me,
I think that some there's a site

1136
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:47,880
somewhere that tracks wallet 
downloads. 

1137
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,400
It's like a million a month. 
No, no, I think it's a million a

1138
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,280
day. 
The site is saying there are 

1139
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,560
1,000,000 all the wallets. 
I don't know how they get that, 

1140
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:57,920
that data. 
I don't know if it's accurate. 

1141
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,760
But anyway, that's the case, 
365,000,000 wallets are getting 

1142
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,920
downloaded now, OK, On a planet 
of 8 billion people, I mean this

1143
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,040
is starting to really matter, 
right? 

1144
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,560
So as long as the adoption is 
continuing, which is what I call

1145
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:16,600
dogs eating food, then you know 
it I don't see kind of hard 

1146
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,560
pressed. 
And and it's also, you know, 

1147
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,920
it's also Metcalf's law. 
I mean it's a, it's a network, 

1148
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,200
you know, the more people who 
join the network, the more 

1149
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,960
valuable the network becomes. 
And then the more valuable the 

1150
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:27,640
network becomes, the more people
who join. 

1151
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:29,760
Do you know what I mean? 
It's, I mean it's like Google, 

1152
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,120
if we think about Google, I 
mean, you know, it started off 

1153
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,160
as it was a better search engine
than Yahoo, better algorithm, 

1154
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,840
everyone migrated to it and and 
of course now you know, there, I

1155
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,040
mean now there's still Bing and 
there's some other search 

1156
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,520
engines. 
But really if you want to list 

1157
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:44,240
something or search for 
something, you're going to use 

1158
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,240
Google because it's the superior
network and that's the same 

1159
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:48,960
thing here. 
This is the superior monetary 

1160
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,600
network and it's just continuing
to grow and embed itself and it 

1161
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,040
was the first mover. 
And so I don't really see, I 

1162
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,880
don't really see that, you know,
I don't see that much downside. 

1163
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,200
I see, I see a lot of paths that
are varying. 

1164
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,160
I mean, you know, as you know 
from the show, I mean Samson 

1165
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,440
thinks it's going to be 
$1,000,000 this year or next 

1166
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,240
year. 
I mean will it be, It could be. 

1167
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,920
I'm not counting on it. 
I, you know, I think it'll be a 

1168
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,640
couple 100,000 pretty soon, a 
million. 

1169
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,600
I think that takes a few more 
years but but I don't know, 

1170
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,080
nobody really does. 
I mean you know the thing that's

1171
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,760
interesting about it is I've 
seen this on another podcast too

1172
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,440
is we've never really seen this 
before. 

1173
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,680
Graham, this is a we are, we are
living in an experiment because 

1174
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:36,560
what we have is a commodity that
has a fixed supply and every 

1175
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:41,040
other commodity in the world, 
gold, oil, wheat, corn, you know

1176
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:46,080
anything is is it will. 
The supply will vary based upon 

1177
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,360
the price. 
If the price goes up, mankind 

1178
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,480
will make more of it. 
And the supply on this thing, 

1179
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,760
it's friggin algorithmically 
fixed. 

1180
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,040
You know what I mean? 
Yeah. 

1181
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,360
Well, it's, it's an experiment 
as you said, it's a commodity, 

1182
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,440
but it's, it's a digital 
commodity that can also act as 

1183
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,320
money, right. 
So we have, as you said, we have

1184
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,280
Metcalf's Law, we have the Lydia
effect, we have the Veblen 

1185
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:14,360
effect, we have Gresham's Law. 
So like it's all these things 

1186
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,760
intertwined, right. 
And I think that's also why 

1187
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,040
it's, well, it's hard to 
comprehend but also very hard to

1188
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,560
predict because. 
But you have that scarcity 

1189
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,200
right, You have like stock to 
flow and there's a lot of the 

1190
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,400
lot of debate about stock to 
flow versus the power law versus

1191
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,360
this and versus that. 
But you know, it's fun, I think,

1192
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,160
to explore, but nobody. 
Has to. 

1193
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,920
We're all just guess out, I 
think, because it's really are. 

1194
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,760
Yeah, yeah. 
And it's fun. 

1195
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,760
Everyone likes number go up. 
I mean it's so fun when number 

1196
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,800
went down and and I think one of
things people have to prepare 

1197
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,240
for is, you know I think the 
draw downs might become less. 

1198
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,520
I mean if you look at the 
historical draw downs, they've 

1199
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,960
slowly but surely been declining
but not by a lot. 

1200
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,840
But the the draw downs might 
become less as it gets more 

1201
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,680
widely distributed. 
I mean eventually when it's 

1202
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,360
fully distributed, draw downs 
won't be very big at all. 

1203
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,720
But if if there are draw downs 
because it'll kind of 

1204
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,720
fundamentally be money. 
But that's many years out. 

1205
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,120
And one thing I the only caution
I would give to people as they 

1206
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,760
look at is, you know, when you 
put money into it, you do need 

1207
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,720
to be prepared for the 
possibility that there'll be a 

1208
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,840
drawn out. 
You know, I mean, the only 

1209
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,920
people I've seen really get hurt
in it are the people who don't 

1210
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,920
truly understand it. 
They chase the price at the top.

1211
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,960
You know, they they aped into it
at 68,000, You know, it went to 

1212
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,240
15. 
They didn't know why they bought

1213
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,160
it. 
They freaked out. 

1214
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,080
They sold it, you know, even 
though we told them not to. 

1215
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,080
And you know, they didn't, they 
didn't realize what they were 

1216
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:37,360
buying. 
They didn't understand the 

1217
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,680
volatility and the nature of the
asset and why dollar cost 

1218
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,080
averaging makes sense and and 
we, you know each cycle it just 

1219
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,840
comes at bigger scale. 
I mean, you know, I can foresee 

1220
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,920
and it's not a prediction, but I
think it's possible that let's 

1221
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,960
say this run we go to 400, well 
somebody's going to buy it at 

1222
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,680
400 and that might be their 
first Bitcoin. 

1223
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,120
Well, let's say it corrects. 
It doesn't correct as much as it

1224
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,200
has in the past, but let's say 
it corrects 50%, so it goes to 

1225
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,360
200. 
Well, somebody who bought it at 

1226
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,200
400 and that's the first buy, 
they're going to really feel 

1227
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,080
like shit, you know, because 
they just on paper, they just 

1228
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,800
lost half the money. 
Now you know if they wait five 

1229
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,920
years, it's probably going to be
at a million. 

1230
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,600
So the $400,000 buy is going to 
look fine. 

1231
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,120
And if they dollar cost averaged
into it and said, look, I 

1232
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,640
recognize that 400 is kind of 
extended, I don't want to go do 

1233
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,280
a plot buy right there. 
Maybe what I want to do is I 

1234
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,720
want to buy, you know, I have 
this amount allocated to it and 

1235
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,040
I want to buy that equally over 
the next 12 months, two years, 

1236
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,480
you know, and. 
And so if it goes up, I'll be 

1237
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,120
paying a little bit more. 
But if it comes down, I'll be 

1238
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,360
buying more or less and 
averaging down. 

1239
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,680
I mean, that's to me, that's a 
much more intelligent way to 

1240
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:42,880
approach it. 
I mean, Phil Miller made a 

1241
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,360
fortune investing in Amazon. 
And I bought it very early, held

1242
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,480
it, held a big piece of it for a
long, long time. 

1243
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:54,520
And yet he suffered multiple 50%
drawdowns where, you know, I 

1244
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,080
mean, people would look at us 
like, Jesus Christ, you, you 

1245
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,880
know, you had this big markup. 
You lost half your money. 

1246
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,080
He's like, yeah, but I believe 
in it. 

1247
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,720
And every time it came back and 
that's. 

1248
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,200
Yeah. 
That's the point we say that's 

1249
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:09,760
the broader. 
Point that I'm trying to make is

1250
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,560
people listen to this. 
People really need to fully 

1251
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,720
understand what this thing is. 
They really do. 

1252
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,280
And and I tell people we're 
trying to orange peel other 

1253
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:19,560
people. 
I say you've got to, you've got 

1254
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,720
to explain the risk here and 
you've got to explain to them 

1255
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,680
that you know at any given point
in time there could be a big 

1256
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,200
drawdown. 
And if if they think they're 

1257
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,720
going to get scared out of it, 
well then their waiting is too 

1258
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,280
high. 
I mean, look, if this does what 

1259
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,040
I think it's going to do, the 
only wrong allocation of this is

1260
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,880
0. 
And so seriously could if you 

1261
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,680
have some, I mean, if it does 
100 bagger, 1000 Bagger, you 

1262
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,560
know and you heard about it and 
you didn't buy any of it, you're

1263
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,360
going to real regret. 
But but honestly, I think for a 

1264
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,720
lot of people just having say, 
say you've got investable assets

1265
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,840
of whatever that number is, 10% 
of your investable assets in 

1266
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,600
this thing. 
If it does what I think it's 

1267
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,600
going to do it's going to eat 
everything else. 

1268
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,720
You're gonna and you're gonna be
really glad you put the 10% in 

1269
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,240
and and the average investor, if
you think about it, you've 

1270
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,120
probably made a lot average 
investors made plenty of 

1271
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,200
investments over many years. 
You can lose 10% of your 

1272
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,800
investable assets and recover. 
You know, I mean you you can 

1273
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:11,640
you. 
I mean if we're totally wrong 

1274
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,400
and it goes to 0, which I think 
is impossible. 

1275
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,760
But if it does and you've got 
10% of your net worth in this 

1276
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,640
thing or 10% of your investable 
worth in this thing, you know 

1277
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,040
and it and it and it craps out, 
you'll be OK. 

1278
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:28,560
You've still got 90% somewhere 
else and what I would say, well 

1279
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:31,760
I'm 90% exactly. 
I mean you and I are, you know, 

1280
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,520
we're on the other end of the 
spectrum and I'm not quite that 

1281
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,080
high. 
I'm, I'm you know more like 60%.

1282
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,240
Now the price has gone up and 
the rest is in gold, but that's 

1283
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,000
just 'cause I have a legacy of 
of being a gold investor. 

1284
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,840
So, and as you get older, you 
need things that are less 

1285
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,480
volatile. 
I mean, I've got clients who 

1286
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,400
have $10 million, You know, they
they've spent their whole life 

1287
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:53,560
earning it. 
They're 70 years old. 

1288
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,680
They're not going to put $10 
million in Bitcoin knowing that 

1289
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,600
it could go down 50%. 
They just can't. 

1290
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,160
But if I they want to protect 
against monetary debasement, I'm

1291
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,160
like, fine, why don't you put $4
million in Bitcoin and $6 

1292
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,080
million in gold? 
The biggest drawdown gold ever 

1293
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,720
had was in the 20% range. 
And generally speaking, gold is 

1294
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,120
up almost every year and over 
long periods of time it's up 8% 

1295
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,480
a year. 
So it's much less volatile and 

1296
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:16,960
you can't print it? 
Yeah. 

1297
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:23,360
So no. 
And so when someone says to you,

1298
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,400
what is Bitcoin and why should I
care? 

1299
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,640
Like how do you explain it 
briefly use, you just said 

1300
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:35,760
something, which I think is a 
main point for me in my 

1301
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,880
understanding is you said it's 
just a thing, right? 

1302
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,720
You said it's just a thing that 
works as intended, right? 

1303
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,040
Like the protocol just works as 
intended. 

1304
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,160
It's just chugging along, like 
it doesn't really matter what 

1305
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,240
you think of it, right? 
Is that one of those things like

1306
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,240
when you said that I was like? 
Yeah, that's some reason, I say 

1307
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:57,440
I say one. 
Of those. 

1308
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,120
First of all, it's really 
important to understand that 

1309
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:01,760
it's a, it's a, it's an 
invention. 

1310
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,240
I mean we discovered we created 
digital scarcity. 

1311
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,840
So in looking at it, you need to
think of it. 

1312
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,560
You know, radio was an 
invention, TV was an invention, 

1313
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,680
cell phones invention, cars an 
invention. 

1314
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,840
Printing, I mean, it is an 
invention. 

1315
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,560
Before we had it, we never had 
digital scarcity. 

1316
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:23,600
OK, Why does that matter? 
Well, because money is all about

1317
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,360
scarcity. 
You need to have to have money 

1318
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,720
be good. 
It needs to be scarce. 

1319
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,720
I mean, you can't have sand as 
money because there's an 

1320
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,640
unlimited amount of sand. 
You can't have water as money, 

1321
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,640
as unlimited amount of water, 
you know and and through 5000 

1322
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,680
years of history, you know 
probably one of the scarcest 

1323
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,240
elements on the planet, Not the 
that's not the scarcest, but 

1324
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,840
it's because the small elements 
are scarcer. 

1325
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,480
But you know a widely 
distributed scarce element is 

1326
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,400
gold, right. 
And so 5000 years people 

1327
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,960
determined that gold was a good 
form of money because it's 

1328
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,440
scarce. 
The supply only goes up at 1 1/2

1329
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,960
percent a year. 
And you know, it was the best 

1330
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,360
money that we had, you know, 
until Bitcoin came along and you

1331
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,800
know Fiat money is is vastly 
inferior. 

1332
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:07,600
We don't need to go into that 
but and So what Bitcoin really 

1333
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:11,760
is, is it's it's digital gold 
only it's better and and the the

1334
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,560
the way the way the reason gold 
is so good is that stock to flow

1335
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,280
is very very high. 
In other words the huge stock of

1336
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:24,200
gold in the in the world 200,000
tons and we only mine, I don't 

1337
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,800
know 3000 a little over 3000 
tons a year. 

1338
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,360
So that's like 1 1/2% that we 
increase the supply. 

1339
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,720
In the case of Bitcoin, right 
now, the supply increases about 

1340
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,520
100% a year. 
In about 20 days we're going to 

1341
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,760
have a halving and that's going 
to fall in half. 

1342
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:43,840
So it's going to be .75, you 
know, 3/4 of a percent a year. 

1343
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,360
And then in another four years 
it's going to be, you know, half

1344
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,600
of that and then you know, just 
asymptotically as it approaches 

1345
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:53,240
0. 
And so, you know, the fact of 

1346
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,720
the matter is we've got a better
form of money that's sounder 

1347
01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:59,720
than gold on a stock to flow 
basis. 

1348
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,400
And in value terms, stock to 
flow is the most important 

1349
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:08,720
measure for monetary value. 
So you know. 

1350
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,960
That said, something hard it. 
Is the IT is the hardest form of

1351
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,080
money that ever existed. 
It's also superior to gold in 

1352
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:20,319
the sense that there's no cost 
to store it and you can 

1353
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:22,600
digitally move it, you know, 
instantly. 

1354
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,279
I mean gold costs money to 
store. 

1355
01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:28,600
It's hard to verify there's been
fake gold or fake gold bars that

1356
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,160
have tungsten inside. 
I've sold gold bars to people 

1357
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,319
and they have to either cut them
in half and charge me a re 

1358
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:37,760
smelting fee or they have to 
have the right kind of machine 

1359
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:39,840
that can look inside to make 
sure it's really gold. 

1360
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,040
And you know by the way try and 
take a billion dollars of gold 

1361
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,000
and move it from point A to 
point BI mean you know you're 

1362
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:50,240
going to need a, you know I 
don't know semi truck or a heavy

1363
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,439
lifting airplane. 
So and you can use, you can move

1364
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,920
a billion dollars of you know 
Bitcoin in 10 minutes. 

1365
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,000
So. 
So it's got a lot of monetary 

1366
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,439
properties that I think make it 
better than gold because you 

1367
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:06,040
know it is a form of quote UN 
quote digital gold you know and 

1368
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,439
and and the other reason that 
it's better than gold and and 

1369
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,680
the thing that I think is going 
to make it outperform gold. 

1370
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,479
There's a really couple of hedge
fund guys. 

1371
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,680
One of the guys, Paul Tudor 
Jones, a very brilliant guy, 

1372
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,520
said, you know, in the monetary 
debasement race, Bitcoin is the 

1373
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,960
fastest horse. 
And he's right. 

1374
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:25,920
I mean, one, the price of gold 
has been suppressed. 

1375
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:27,840
That's a whole different long 
conversation. 

1376
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:32,520
We don't need to go there. 
But you got two things going on.

1377
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,920
We know we talked earlier the 
government is debasing the 

1378
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:36,720
money. 
We know that. 

1379
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,319
That's a fact that's provable. 
You can see M2 growing 

1380
01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:42,520
consistently for year after year
and that's, you know, that's 

1381
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,439
your more supply of money, same 
number of goods prices go up. 

1382
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:48,240
OK, fine, We know that's true. 
We know that's a trend. 

1383
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:49,680
We know that trend is getting 
worse. 

1384
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:52,439
That will drive the price of 
everything up. 

1385
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,920
It'll especially drive up the 
price of things that can't be 

1386
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:59,320
printed, like gold and Bitcoin. 
Gold is fully distributed. 

1387
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,680
It's been around 5000 years. 
Everyone who wants gold knows 

1388
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,240
what it is, has gold. 
You know, it's it's got a huge 

1389
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:05,800
lending effect that haven't been
out there. 

1390
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,800
Bitcoin's been around 15 years 
and the whole world doesn't know

1391
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,360
about it yet. 
And so you've got to, it's cool 

1392
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,000
because you've not only got 
something that'll go up because 

1393
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,240
the government's printing money 
and there's monetary debasement,

1394
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,920
and also you've got an adoption 
curve, you know, and you've got,

1395
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:22,440
I mean, what, what? 
What do we got? 

1396
01:10:22,440 --> 01:10:25,640
8 billion people. 21 million. 
I mean, every person in the 

1397
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,000
world can't have even like 1/10 
of a coin. 

1398
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:32,680
You've got 54,000,000 
millionaire in the world. 

1399
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,760
You got 21 million Bitcoin, some
of which have been lost. 

1400
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,800
But forget that for a moment. 
Every millionaire in the world 

1401
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,240
could only own half a Bitcoin. 
I mean, right. 

1402
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,320
And so and and by the way, most 
of them aren't aware of it yet. 

1403
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,200
And so you know, we're not even 
at that 10% tip, 10% tipping 

1404
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,040
point. 
So we're just so very, very 

1405
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,280
early, Bram, in terms of 
acceptance. 

1406
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:58,080
And you know, the way I tend to 
look at it is at a macro level, 

1407
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,520
it's about 700 trillion of 
wealth in the world. 

1408
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,760
That includes real estate. 
Let's take the real estate out. 

1409
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,160
Let's say there's 350 trillion 
of real estate and 350 trillion 

1410
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,000
of stocks, bonds, you know, 
currency, paper, all that kind 

1411
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,840
of stuff, gold, You know, the 
entire market cap. 

1412
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,040
Right now, Bitcoin is 1.3 
trillion. 

1413
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,400
So all the Bitcoin in the world 
is worth 1.3 trillion. 

1414
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,600
All the other stuff in the world
is 350 trillion. 

1415
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,800
As that 350 trillion becomes 
aware that they are being 

1416
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:34,760
consistently and systematically 
debased, IE that they're losing 

1417
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,760
out to inflation. 
Not all of it, but some of it is

1418
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,240
going to say, huh, I need to 
sell this stock. 

1419
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,160
I need to sell these especially 
bonds. 

1420
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,360
I need to sell these bonds. 
I need to take this currency and

1421
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,240
I need to buy something that's 
really hard, that's not going to

1422
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:54,080
be debased and I'm going to buy 
Bitcoin now. 

1423
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,600
And as we've seen, you know, 
there's a real multiplier effect

1424
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:00,800
because a lot of the coins are 
in strong hands, 70% haven't 

1425
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:04,600
moved in over a year. 
You know, the Bitcoin, since the

1426
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:09,320
ETFs came in, ETF comes in and 
the market value of Bitcoin, I 

1427
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:13,880
think it's gone up by about 300,
three, $100 billion. 

1428
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,720
And I think the Bitcoin, I think
there's been about $8 billion 

1429
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:19,760
that's gone into the ETFs. 
I could be a little off on this 

1430
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,560
because it changes every day, 
but let's just think about this.

1431
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:27,960
So $300 trillion of market 
appreciate $300 billion that 

1432
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,200
bitcoin's gone up on 8 of new 
flows. 

1433
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,800
So that's 37 times. 
So this is the multiplier. 

1434
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,640
So that suggests that for every 
billion dollars that comes into 

1435
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:43,520
Bitcoin, the price goes up by 37
times that amount. 

1436
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:51,400
So there's remember, there's 350
trillion, not billion trillion 

1437
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:56,000
dollars out there. 
OK, right, let's. 

1438
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,840
Take 1%. 1% of that is 3 
trillion. 

1439
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:03,320
OK, the entire market cap today 
of Bitcoin is 1.3 trillion, and 

1440
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:07,120
I can assure you that that 
entire 1.3 isn't for sale. 

1441
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,080
You follow where I'm going here.
So if if that if that 3 trillion

1442
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,080
came over and said, you know 
what, I want to buy some of this

1443
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:17,920
stuff, I got to get it. 
I mean This is why the mistake 

1444
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:19,560
people are going to make with 
this asset. 

1445
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:21,440
And I had a friend who did this.
I was talking to me the other 

1446
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:24,400
day said, well you told me about
it at 25 and it's at 50 now. 

1447
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:25,920
I can't, I can't chase it. 
I can't. 

1448
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,280
And I was like, dude, this 
thing's going to $2,000,000, you

1449
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:32,320
know do you care that you're 
paying 50 grand for something 

1450
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,480
that's going to be worth and 
then four and then six and then 

1451
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:36,720
eight. 
I mean you know it's it's, it's 

1452
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:40,680
got so far to run and we are so 
early. 

1453
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:45,040
I mean we know for a fact that 
we're under the 10% penetration 

1454
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,680
level and yet it's growing 
rapidly. 

1455
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:52,680
And so you know as I say in many
podcasts, I've never seen such 

1456
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,600
an asymmetric bet. 
I mean, I just, it's it's, it's 

1457
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,400
kind of stunning to me that it 
exists. 

1458
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:00,320
And you know, I've been in the 
business of investing in stocks.

1459
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,200
And the hardest part about 
investing in stocks is that 

1460
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,680
you're investing in companies 
and companies are run by people,

1461
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:08,240
and people, people screw shit 
up. 

1462
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,560
You know what I mean? 
I mean, sadly, you know, 

1463
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:15,280
management teams screw things up
and here you've got a really 

1464
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:19,400
good monetary investment that's 
kind of on autopilot. 

1465
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:21,240
You know, you got the core 
developers who could 

1466
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:23,320
theoretically screw it up, but 
there are a lot of them and 

1467
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:25,800
anything they do is got to be 
approved by the consensus. 

1468
01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:29,480
And so I I think the odds of 
this thing getting screwed up 

1469
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:34,280
are pretty damn low. 
So I don't know. 

1470
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,040
I mean, I I don't think I have 
to convince you because you're a

1471
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,480
bitcoiner. 
You totally get it. 

1472
01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:41,680
But I mean, you know, to me this
really with my friends and the 

1473
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:43,640
people I've tried to orange, but
this really is kind of a I'm 

1474
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,680
pounding the table, you know, 
and fine, I get it. 

1475
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,400
If you're afraid of it, I 
totally get it. 

1476
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,840
I'm not suggesting that you need
to put all your money in this 

1477
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,200
thing. 
But what I am suggesting is that

1478
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:58,280
if you don't buy some of it, 
someday five years, 10 years, 

1479
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:00,760
15, and you heard about it and 
people tried to convince you to 

1480
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,560
do it and you said, Nah, I'm not
going to do that. 

1481
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:05,120
I think you're going to 
experience regret. 

1482
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:13,480
I think it's interesting that 
that ego test or like personal 

1483
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:15,640
challenge test comes back again,
right? 

1484
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:20,000
Because I think what you just 
said, like some people don't 

1485
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,200
like that sentence, right? 
We are still so early. 

1486
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:25,920
But I I do agree. 
But that is the that is what 

1487
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:29,280
makes it so hard. 
Like when you see this entirely.

1488
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:31,320
Am I really? 
Here. 

1489
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:32,840
Yeah. 
Am I really here? 

1490
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,680
And the other thing is you can 
it's very easy to have FOMO or 

1491
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:41,280
you know, revert old time FOMO 
and you know, you know 

1492
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:42,600
something. 
I mean, look, I've met people 

1493
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:44,440
who bought it at $2.00. 
I met people who bought it at 

1494
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:46,840
$1.00. 
I mean Max Kaiser bought his 

1495
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:48,200
first coins. 
I was told this story the other 

1496
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,680
day that was fastened. 
He paid $0.50 for his first 

1497
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:51,800
coins. 
So there's a guy in front of him

1498
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,720
named Trace Meyer who was really
early who paid $0.30 and Max 

1499
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,480
thought he was overpaying. 
Max thought he was too late. 

1500
01:15:58,480 --> 01:16:01,520
And $0.50, OK. 
I mean, right. 

1501
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,800
I mean, this is, you know, this 
is kind of, this is where we 

1502
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,040
are. 
So, you know, I've got coins I 

1503
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,440
bought at 300, I've got coins I 
bought at 1000, I've got 5000, 

1504
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,440
you know, whatever. 
I mean, I'm totally comfortable 

1505
01:16:12,440 --> 01:16:14,720
buying coins at 69,000. 
I just don't care. 

1506
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:18,000
I mean if I have some excess 
savings or some earnings or you 

1507
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,480
know, other things pay off, I'm 
going to put them in at whatever

1508
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:24,760
the level is at that point in 
time, recognizing that at any 

1509
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,120
time the 69 could go to 30 and 
I've got to be prepared to live 

1510
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,120
with that. 
But I am, you know I am. 

1511
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,480
And so since I am, because I 
know that in 10 years, 20 years,

1512
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:38,040
30 years, it's going to be much,
much higher because you know, as

1513
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:42,040
I say, if adoption continues, 
what's, you know, what's going 

1514
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:48,000
to stop it, right? 
So is the risky thing here like 

1515
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,120
losing the faith? 
In yourself, I mean I, you know 

1516
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:53,720
I. 
Basically right if the well or 

1517
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:57,560
like the understanding, you know
the the trusting of your 

1518
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:00,800
understanding right? 
And then when it goes down, 

1519
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,720
inevitably. 
That you? 

1520
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:04,160
Yeah. 
I mean I have to say when I 

1521
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,760
bought it at 17, it went to 10 
and then four. 

1522
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,280
I had some moments of doubt. 
I mean I was kind of like, yeah,

1523
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:12,800
I mean I was like, oh shit. 
Of course, you know you might 

1524
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:17,000
have really fucked up on this 
thing but but I but I didn't. 

1525
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:19,880
I, I went back to the core 
thesis and I understood stood 

1526
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:24,680
the core thesis of base level 
and I thought to myself, no, you

1527
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:28,400
know and and I mean the benefit 
everybody has now is how many of

1528
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:29,760
these drawdowns we got five or 
six. 

1529
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:34,640
I mean we've now seen this you 
know investments tend to exhibit

1530
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:38,240
patterns and we've seen this. 
We've got pattern recognition 

1531
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:39,840
Now. 
We've had a bunch of drawdowns, 

1532
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:42,760
you know which, which which the 
the doubters would say, oh, 

1533
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:46,480
there was a bubble bursting, OK,
But in every case that bubble 

1534
01:17:46,480 --> 01:17:48,520
burst and then it came back 
stronger. 

1535
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,240
So it's not a bubble, it's just 
not, I mean we've had six bubble

1536
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:53,880
bursts and every time it comes 
back stronger. 

1537
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,120
So. 
So really that's that's not the 

1538
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:58,600
right model. 
So but yeah, I mean if look if 

1539
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:01,680
you bought your first coins at 
69 three years ago and you know 

1540
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,120
FTX happened, I mean no doubt 
you felt like shit, you know. 

1541
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:10,120
But again, the way you deal with
that is you have to take a 

1542
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,120
portfolio approach and you have 
to take a probability weighted 

1543
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:15,680
approach. 
I mean I was particularly suited

1544
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:17,640
to this because I, you know, I 
went to Business School, we 

1545
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,000
studied monetary, we studied 
economics and you know what you 

1546
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,120
do is you look at the potential 
reward. 

1547
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,760
I mean the the beautiful thing 
about this is asymmetric. 

1548
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,800
What does that mean? 
You can only lose 1 if you put a

1549
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:29,640
dollar into it. 
You can only lose the dollar, 

1550
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:34,240
but you can make $10 a $100 a 
thousand dollars, $10,000 

1551
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:35,520
depends on the time frame, 
right. 

1552
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:38,120
And that's a that's an 
asymmetric bet. 

1553
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,000
So what you've got to get 
comfortable is that what you put

1554
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:43,440
into it, you could lose it. 
You've got to get comfortable 

1555
01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:46,400
with that but but and and you've
got to you've got to get 

1556
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,920
comfortable that it's worth the 
possibility of losing that for 

1557
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:54,360
the for the upside of 
potentially making 45101520 a 

1558
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,120
hundred times your money which I
think it still has that upside. 

1559
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:01,400
I mean it's interesting Sailor 
made a comment over in Madeira 

1560
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,440
that I I think he meant for 
because Williams was on stage. 

1561
01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:07,920
He said, he said, look, the next
10 years are going to really be 

1562
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:12,720
the gold rush period in Bitcoin 
because we're at about 90% of 

1563
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:17,960
the coins have been mined to 
date, and between now and 2034, 

1564
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:24,760
the next 9% will get mined. 
So at 2030, four, 1% of the 

1565
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,840
remaining coins will be mined 
over the next 100 years as that 

1566
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:30,240
asymptotically, you know, the 
halvings occurred. 

1567
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,640
So effectively at that point 
your stock to flow is, you know,

1568
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,160
there's there's no flow. 
I mean you're getting just a 

1569
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,640
trivial amount of flow. 
So you're, you're all the coins 

1570
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,160
are out there. 
And so at that point in time, it

1571
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,800
becomes even harder. 
And you know, my sense is we're 

1572
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,840
just going to go on an 
incredible ramp here, you know, 

1573
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,040
during these next 10 years. 
And people, I think, are going 

1574
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,800
to be shocked at how valuable 
these things are. 

1575
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,880
And so in the world that I 
foresee in the future, you know,

1576
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:58,440
and this is going to be hard for
some people, there are literally

1577
01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:00,600
going to be those people who 
bought Bitcoin and those who 

1578
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:02,440
didn't. 
And the people who bought 

1579
01:20:02,440 --> 01:20:06,080
Bitcoin are going to be silly 
rich, just silly rich in in Fiat

1580
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,200
terms. 
And the people who didn't might 

1581
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:12,000
be really bitter. 
And and and you know, if you can

1582
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:13,840
live with that, fine. 
But if if you're if you're 

1583
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,120
listening to this and you can 
hear this and you can understand

1584
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:19,520
it and you can think it through,
you know, I beg you to buy some.

1585
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:23,160
And I've, you know, I've orange 
peeled a lot of people who are 

1586
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,160
extremely skeptical. 
They almost had to hold their 

1587
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,600
nose to buy it. 
They were terrified of it, you 

1588
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,560
know, and and this is five, 6-7 
years ago and to a person, 

1589
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:33,600
they've all come back to me and 
said thank you for pushing me on

1590
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:34,880
that. 
Thank you. 

1591
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:36,320
I really appreciate it. 
You know. 

1592
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,280
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1593
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:44,480
And so maybe to reiterate, as 
you said in your entire career, 

1594
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:45,480
I've. 
Never seen anything. 

1595
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,280
But you've never. 
Seen any friggin believable. 

1596
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:51,680
It almost sounds too good to be 
true and and it would be too 

1597
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:56,240
good to be true if it wasn't the
case that it was a technical 

1598
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:58,760
invention. 
I mean, I'm sure if you had 

1599
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:03,920
spoken to somebody in America in
1890 and told them, you know, in

1600
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,880
30 or 40 years you're going to 
be able to get on an airplane 

1601
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:13,240
and go from New York to LA in 4 
1/2 hours in a chat, they just 

1602
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:14,520
said you're out of your fucking 
mind. 

1603
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:16,680
That's too good to be true. 
There's no, there's absolutely 

1604
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:20,720
zero possibility of that, right?
There's just, there's zero 

1605
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,320
possibility. 
The best I can do is hop on an 

1606
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:27,200
overnight train and I'll end up 
in California in 36 hours or 

1607
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:30,640
whatever the hell it is, right? 
You know, I mean and and that's.

1608
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:34,000
That's the. 
That's the point. 

1609
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,800
That's what we're talking about.
We've got a technical innovation

1610
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:40,640
here. 
And so, you know, I mean, I 

1611
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:42,320
just, I told it's set up on the 
stage. 

1612
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:44,560
I mean in Madeira I made the 
mistake of selling Microsoft. 

1613
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,320
It was the base layer of, of 
computing. 

1614
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:48,040
I mean, I didn't know what I 
owned. 

1615
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,920
You know, I didn't realize it. 
But to me this feels the same. 

1616
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:53,120
I mean that's one of the 
advantages. 

1617
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:56,280
I started investing in the 80s, 
early 80s, you know, So what 

1618
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,720
I've been doing 40, you know, 43
years or something. 

1619
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,800
I mean, no more. 
I mean, yeah, 43 years. 

1620
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:07,240
So 44 years. 
So, you know, basically this 

1621
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,800
reminds me so much of, you know,
the computers and Microsoft as 

1622
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,280
the base layer or of the 
Internet as the base layer. 

1623
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:16,520
I mean, it's the same thing. 
It's the exact same thing. 

1624
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:18,440
And, you know, is it going to 
all happen tomorrow? 

1625
01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:20,200
No, it's not going to all happen
tomorrow, is it? 

1626
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:22,400
Is it a relentless trend? 
Yes. 

1627
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:27,240
And you know that Microsoft 
stock is up 4700 times the price

1628
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,080
I paid it for in 1986. 
I wish I'd hung on to it. 

1629
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:33,480
I didn't fucked up. 
Yeah. 

1630
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:36,960
Yeah. 
Well, maybe fun. 

1631
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:41,160
Fun for me to share with you. 
Like when I heard you say this 

1632
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:44,920
right, Like this is the biggest 
asymmetric bet I've ever seen or

1633
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,720
what Greg Foss says, right. 
Like, I've been in Wall Street 

1634
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:51,520
for 35 years and you know, I've 
never seen anything like this. 

1635
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:56,800
Then at one point I realized 
when I saw that you two, I think

1636
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,280
in one week saying the same 
thing, I was like, I'm 35, like 

1637
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,920
what the hell do I know? 
You know, like, I think it's 

1638
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,400
interesting because we ended up 
at the same point of 

1639
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,200
understanding this thing called 
Bitcoin. 

1640
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:11,760
But you have this life 
experience that I don't have, 

1641
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,360
right? 
So I can go in my head and think

1642
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:18,680
like, oh, I doubt myself in this
or this way, but but when I hear

1643
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:24,240
you say that for me that's such 
a signal, it says so much to me,

1644
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:26,720
right like that. 
That is information that I can. 

1645
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:28,400
Use. 
I mean, I've seen a bunch of 

1646
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:30,680
these cycles. 
I have seen a bunch and I and I 

1647
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:32,840
this is the same, same old, same
old. 

1648
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:34,720
That's why. 
That's why I have so much 

1649
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:36,360
conviction in it. 
And I'm not sitting here trying 

1650
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:37,800
to pump my bags or anything 
else. 

1651
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,360
I'm I'm actually just trying to 
help people you know, to 

1652
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:44,040
understand it. 
And I just it's you know, and 

1653
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:45,840
that's why I have such a deep 
conviction in it. 

1654
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:49,000
And I I think that's why Sailor 
is, I mean you know, all of us, 

1655
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:50,760
once you see it, you can't Unsee
it. 

1656
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,000
And I've I've had a lot of 
people come to it that way. 

1657
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,240
I mean this guy on on Twitter is
a good friend of mine, Chris 

1658
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,200
Irons who runs quote the Rape. 
And I mean he was a very big 

1659
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,000
skeptic, but he's a very smart 
guy who's very open minded, very

1660
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:04,680
open minded, very and very 
smart. 

1661
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:07,520
Oh my God. 
He's, he's too orange. 

1662
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:08,840
Valiant. 
I mean, it's crazy. 

1663
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,120
It's totally crazy. 
It's just like at some point it 

1664
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:15,800
went off in his head like, holy 
shit, you're right, Larry. 

1665
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:19,040
I think it was actually when I 
said it was a digital, you know,

1666
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,840
we invented digital scarcity. 
I really think it helps to think

1667
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,840
of it in those terms. 
It's not just an investment. 

1668
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,080
I mean, you know, seeing like, 
it's all wonky and engineering. 

1669
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:28,320
He says, oh, that's digital 
energy. 

1670
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,160
Well, what does that mean? 
No, no, no. 

1671
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:33,880
This is an invention. 
This before this thing came 

1672
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:37,120
along, it did not exist. 
We had tried multiple times to 

1673
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,720
make it exist and they failed. 
They failed because the 

1674
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:41,920
technology was in one way or 
another flawed. 

1675
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:46,360
But eventually Adam Back and 
everybody contributed pieces to 

1676
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:49,720
it and they all put it together 
and we now have an unflowed 

1677
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,440
technology that really gives you
digital scarcity. 

1678
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:57,680
And that's that's a that's a 
fundamental technical 

1679
01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:01,320
development that did not exist 
before this thing existed. 

1680
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:05,000
And now we've got 15 years of 
history, you know, so it's, I 

1681
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,120
mean, this is even less. 
And then Foss and I talk about 

1682
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:10,080
this a lot, You know, You know, 
you're paying 69 for it right 

1683
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:11,480
now. 
I mean, I'll tell you, the buy, 

1684
01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:15,160
the buy of all buys was after 
FTX when I went back down to 15.

1685
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,840
I mean, hell, I was paying 17 
for it in 2017. 

1686
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:22,480
So here you were six years later
and you got a second chance. 

1687
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,120
Do you know what I mean? 
Unbelievable, right? 

1688
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:29,040
But I mean, even at 65, I look 
at it and I think to myself, 

1689
01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:32,720
given how much we know and how 
many, how much of the risk we've

1690
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:35,440
rung out of it, I mean, Oh my 
God. 

1691
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:39,480
I mean it's just, it's it's a, 
it's a better bet at 65 arguably

1692
01:25:39,480 --> 01:25:44,000
than it was at 2017 at 17 
because we know more about what 

1693
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,600
it is and where it's going. 
I mean these ETFs, I mean this 

1694
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:48,800
is huge, right? 
So. 

1695
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:52,080
Yeah. 
And and what you said about the 

1696
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:57,920
digital scarcity, right I think 
also for and I see my 

1697
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:03,640
generational peers all into shit
coins still I try to say, you 

1698
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:07,320
know bit Bitcoin is a 
decentralized protocol that 

1699
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:10,080
represents that discovery of 
digital scarcity. 

1700
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:12,960
And crypto quote, UN quote is an
attempt. 

1701
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,360
Yeah no. 
But it's an attempt by startups 

1702
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:20,120
to create a technology where 
some token fuels the use of 

1703
01:26:20,280 --> 01:26:21,720
their system, right. 
It's. 

1704
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:24,200
Totally different. 
It's so different. 

1705
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:26,840
It's. 
Something, yeah, I get it. 

1706
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:30,000
I mean, I can help people in Web
three and technology, I mean, 

1707
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:33,680
but that's all very Fiat, like 
that's very Fiat. 

1708
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:37,320
Me too, and. 
This is different, yeah. 

1709
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:40,040
Oh, we dabbled in that as well. 
Before we all, we all do. 

1710
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,600
I was already into Bitcoin. 
I always tried it out a couple. 

1711
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:44,240
Of hours. 
And then, yeah, the more I 

1712
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:46,200
learned about it, the more I 
understood about what their 

1713
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,040
monetary policies were, the more
I came and said, no, you know 

1714
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,160
what? 
I'm a I'm a maxi. 

1715
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,520
That shit's not going to work. 
Yeah, so. 

1716
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:56,520
Yeah, yeah, I agree. 
Same here. 

1717
01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:59,200
Yeah. 
So last, last, last two 

1718
01:26:59,200 --> 01:27:01,320
questions I wanted to ask you 
about. 

1719
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:05,200
I saw you, you tweeted about 
Gresham's Law and I wanted to 

1720
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:08,160
ask like, can we talk a bit 
about the idea of like Bitcoin 

1721
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,840
replacing Fiat currencies? 
Like how does that play? 

1722
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:12,280
Out nobody like how? 
Long does. 

1723
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:14,720
That nobody knows for sure. 
And I saw that take tweets. 

1724
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:17,000
Where you mentioned that. 
The point on those tweets, 

1725
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:19,720
though, was just that in the 
digital world where everybody's 

1726
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:21,400
connected, things can happen 
fast. 

1727
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:25,040
I pointed out the Silicon Valley
bank failed in six days, and in 

1728
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:28,360
one day the Silicon Valley bank 
had withdrawals of $45 billion, 

1729
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:30,640
which is 45% of their deposit 
base. 

1730
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:35,200
So when. 
Yeah, when everybody comes to 

1731
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:39,320
the conclusion that Fiat 
currency is doomed, we're gonna 

1732
01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:42,200
have a God candle that's gonna 
be, you know it's it's gonna go 

1733
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,520
to Infinity. 
I mean there's a chart on that 

1734
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,760
my friend Dan Oliver of Merma 
can has put up. 

1735
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:51,320
It's all over Twitter that shows
the how the Deutsche mark went 

1736
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:55,440
to Infinity in terms of gold in 
the German hyperinflation from 

1737
01:27:55,440 --> 01:28:01,600
1919 to 1923. 
And you know, at some point in 

1738
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:03,960
time, I mean what happened to 
the Silicon Valley bank is 

1739
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,280
everyone came to the conclusion 
this bank is bankrupt. 

1740
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:08,320
I got to get the fuck out of 
here now or I'm going to lose 

1741
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,640
all my money, OK? 
At some point in time, I 

1742
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,120
sincerely believe that the 
governments will be doing so 

1743
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,800
much money printing and it will 
be so out of control that 

1744
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:22,320
everyone will come to the 
conclusion that they are, those 

1745
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:27,960
currencies are doomed and they 
will be panic buying anything 

1746
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:31,600
that's not currency and that 
includes food and cars and 

1747
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:34,480
houses and. 
But you'll realize that if you 

1748
01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:38,920
have $100,000, it's going to buy
more today than it'll ever buy 

1749
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:41,720
in the future and that you got 
to get the fuck out of it. 

1750
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:45,560
And so you're going to buy gold,
silver, Bitcoin or something 

1751
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:49,640
tangible because eventually you 
know it's going to they're going

1752
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:50,960
to be worthless. 
And this is how all 

1753
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,680
hyperinflations have happened, 
Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etcetera. 

1754
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:57,760
All it takes for hyperinflation 
to occur, all it takes is for 

1755
01:28:57,760 --> 01:28:59,800
everyone to come to the 
conclusion the government can 

1756
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:03,440
never get responsible again. 
And you know, I've already 

1757
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:07,200
reached that conclusion, but you
know, I it's going to take a 

1758
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:09,080
long time until everyone comes 
to that conclusion. 

1759
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:10,960
So what's the time frame for 
that? 

1760
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,760
I don't know. 
I think it could be as late as 

1761
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,320
2038. 
I kind of tend to think it's 

1762
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:17,800
probably in the early twenty 
30s. 

1763
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,960
It's a fourth turning. 
They tend to last ten, 20-30 

1764
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,640
years. 
We started in 2008, 10 years is 

1765
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:28,880
2018 hasn't happened, 20 years 
is 2028 could happen by then. 

1766
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,400
Yeah, it feels to me like we got
a few more you know zigzags back

1767
01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:35,080
and forth by 2038 this is going 
to be all over. 

1768
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:36,840
It's it's just going to be 
obvious. 

1769
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:40,000
So, but I, you know, I I could 
be surprised. 

1770
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:43,000
I mean if you know if Samson's 
right and then and we go to 

1771
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,960
1,000,000 bucks you know in the 
next year or two, I mean that's 

1772
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:48,840
going to be a wake up call 
that's going to be a big wake up

1773
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:50,560
call. 
And then the other thing is 

1774
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:52,160
how's the other side going to 
play it? 

1775
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:54,240
How much money is the government
going to print? 

1776
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:56,080
Are they going to try and ban 
it? 

1777
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:58,000
Are they going to throw sand in 
our eyes? 

1778
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:01,360
You know, I I I mean it, it will
be existential. 

1779
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:03,880
I mean you know we're playing 
for all the marbles when we're 

1780
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,320
playing, when we're playing for 
what is the world's reserve 

1781
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:09,520
currency that people trust. 
We are playing for all the 

1782
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:13,200
marbles and that's how big it. 
Is. 

1783
01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:15,080
But this is how big it is, 
right? 

1784
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,920
This is how how big it is. 
Especially, I think last week 

1785
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,760
there was a tweet from the 
European Central Bank about 

1786
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:27,040
Bitcoin and I tweeted like, the 
fact that they pay attention to 

1787
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:30,360
some random idea getting thrown 
out on the Internet 15 years 

1788
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:32,200
ago. 
Like that is the signal. 

1789
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:34,960
Like why? 
Do you know how many random 

1790
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,400
ideas there are on the Internet,
On the Internet forums? 

1791
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:38,520
You know, like. 
Right. 

1792
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:41,360
Infinite. 
Why are you? 

1793
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:42,760
Paying attention. 
Why? 

1794
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,680
What are you doing? 
When they get it too, they get 

1795
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:48,320
it too. 
So, yeah, of course, you know, 

1796
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:50,720
look, I look, I don't like 
calling for hyperinflation. 

1797
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,720
Some people call me a dumer or 
something, you know, gold bug, a

1798
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:54,880
negative guy. 
But I just, I just look at the 

1799
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:59,400
math and I, I don't really know.
I mean, I, I, I think we could 

1800
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:00,880
arrest it somewhere in the 
interim. 

1801
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:04,000
They could reset to gold, they 
could reset to Bitcoin, they 

1802
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:05,480
could cut the government 
expenses. 

1803
01:31:05,480 --> 01:31:06,720
They could try and balance the 
budget. 

1804
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,480
I mean there are things that 
could interrupt this process, 

1805
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:12,880
you know and and then this just 
becomes a nice digital gold and 

1806
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,960
it's, you know, it's a form of 
savings and that'll take it much

1807
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:18,040
higher than it is today. 
I mean it hasn't, you know, the 

1808
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:23,320
total total gold market today is
roughly $13 trillion and Bitcoin

1809
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:25,880
today is $1.3 trillion. 
So it hasn't even surpassed 

1810
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:28,600
gold, you know, and it will at 
some point. 

1811
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:33,000
So, so we, you know, we've, I I 
think it's going to do very, 

1812
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,000
very well. 
You know, do we get hyper 

1813
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,560
bitcoinization where the dollar 
is dead and we're pricing 

1814
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:39,080
everything in SAS? 
I think we will. 

1815
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:43,000
My belief is it will actually 
get there, but you know if we 

1816
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:44,880
don't get there that, you know, 
that's fine too. 

1817
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:47,240
I think it'll, it'll still be a 
very good sound money 

1818
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:48,520
investment. 
Yep. 

1819
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:54,200
So. 
What you just said, if you have 

1820
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:59,560
100,000 cash, you should realize
that it will never buy more than

1821
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:01,680
today in the future. 
It's true though. 

1822
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:04,520
I mean, it's a fact. 
It's pretty crazy actually. 

1823
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:06,600
Pretty much more. 
I know, but it's it's. 

1824
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:08,160
I never thought about it like 
that. 

1825
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,080
But once you realize that you 
like now for anyone listening 

1826
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,680
like now, just realize that that
is that is the get off your. 

1827
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:18,960
Ass right. 
Instruction. 

1828
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:20,480
Yeah. 
You can't just have money 

1829
01:32:20,480 --> 01:32:22,160
sitting in a bank account, a 
savings account. 

1830
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,520
No, I mean, it's yeah, no, it's 
tragic. 

1831
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:28,240
It's really tragic. 
They're gonna, you know, I mean,

1832
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:30,240
your pension, all this stuff. 
I mean it's. 

1833
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,680
Yeah, wow. 
Yeah, it's the monetary 

1834
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:35,320
debasement's a very evil thing. 
It really just hurts a lot of 

1835
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:37,440
people. 
It really does. 

1836
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,880
Yeah, OK. 
Let's let's handle end on a high

1837
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:46,480
note I I ask everyone the same 
question as the last question 

1838
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:49,720
and that is what is a core 
belief you will never let go. 

1839
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:52,800
Well I I believe that that 
there's a higher power and that 

1840
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,000
we're all here for some 
God-given reason and I believe 

1841
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:57,840
that humans are fundamentally 
good. 

1842
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:00,360
Most humans are fundamentally 
good which doesn't mean that 

1843
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:04,520
there aren't some who aren't. 
But I'll never let go of kind of

1844
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:08,440
optimism and and the belief that
in spite of all these problems, 

1845
01:33:08,440 --> 01:33:10,760
in spite of the turmoil that 
we're going to go through and 

1846
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:13,560
you know, I mean hyperinflation 
we have is going to be very 

1847
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:17,880
unpleasant, but that we are we 
are continually and surely 

1848
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:21,440
moving and evolving toward a 
higher plane and a better 

1849
01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:25,000
society and a fairer society and
a better life for more people. 

1850
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:28,040
I mean, you know, in spite of 
all these problems we have still

1851
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:29,960
life. 
Until very recently, life 

1852
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:33,440
expectancies worldwide have gone
up and you know look at all 

1853
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:35,040
these technologies we've 
developed. 

1854
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:38,480
And I mean I just, I I'm a, you 
know I fundamentally I will 

1855
01:33:38,480 --> 01:33:40,160
never give up on being an 
optimist. 

1856
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:44,080
I'm very bullish on the world. 
I'm very bullish on mankind and 

1857
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:46,160
I think that everything is gonna
work out great. 

1858
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:50,360
But I I also think that you know
that that doesn't mean that you 

1859
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:52,840
don't grab an umbrella when it 
looks like it's gonna rain. 

1860
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:56,720
Yeah. 
I agree. 

1861
01:33:57,560 --> 01:33:58,680
Well, thanks so much for 
sharing. 

1862
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:00,640
You're a good friend, but I'm 
happy to be the same time you 

1863
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:03,480
like, you know, it's it's. 
I'm sure you got a good audience

1864
01:34:03,480 --> 01:34:05,560
and if I can help out in any way
let me know. 

1865
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:09,720
Thank you. 
I hope you enjoyed this episode.

1866
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:12,720
If you did, it would be amazing 
if you could rate, review and 

1867
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,280
subscribe on the podcast 
platform of your choice. 

1868
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,240
It will help us educate more 
millennials on the importance of

1869
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:20,280
Bitcoin. 
You can follow and connect with 

1870
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:24,280
me on Twitter. 
I'm Bram K That's at BR AM K and

1871
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:26,760
if you are or know someone who 
has an interesting perspective 

1872
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:28,720
on Bitcoin that's worth sharing,
hit me up. 

1873
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:30,840
I read and reply to every single
message. 

1874
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:33,640
I appreciate your support and 
hope you'll be here for the next

1875
01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:35,080
episodes. 
Thanks for listening.