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All right. 
Hey there. 

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This is from Constant and you're
listening to Bitcoin for 

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Millennials. 
With my guests on this podcast, 

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I go on a journey to discover 
how our current financial system

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works, why it's flawed, and why 
Bitcoin is the most relevant 

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technological discovery you 
should understand and adopt. 

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In this episode, I'm joined by 
Ella Huff. 

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She's a junior at Cornell 
University pursuing a Bitcoin 

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focused study through Cornell's 
Scholar degree program. 

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In addition, Ella is also the 
founder of the Cornell Bitcoin 

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Club, project lead at the 
nonprofit organization 

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Generation Bitcoin Co, founder 
of the Bitcoin Students Network,

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and a contributor to Bitcoin 
Magazine. 

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Through her involvement, she's 
dedicated to helping young 

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generations learn about and 
contribute to Bitcoin, and I'm 

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super excited to talk with her 
today. 

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So welcome, Ella. 
Thank you so much for having me.

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Well, thanks so much for coming 
on. 

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I love loved writing this intro.
I mean, you're doing so much. 

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And we just talked off Mike, 
like, you know, sometimes I feel

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old, even as a millennial. 
I mean, I'm 36, but you're 21 

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and your involvement in Bitcoin 
is so big. 

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So I'm. 
I'm super excited to talk with 

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you because I think this is 
really cool that, you know, like

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someone from a younger 
generation is all into this. 

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And yeah, so let's talk about 
that. 

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But first I wanted to check with
you. 

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I saw your Twitter bio says 
Generation Z marks the end of 

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the alphabet and beginning of 
the future where the B of 

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beginning as a Bitcoin B. 
So how do you experience talking

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about Bitcoin with your 
generational peers? 

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Like what are? 
What are the 18/19/2021 year 

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olds talking about? 
Yeah. 

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So normally I just start by 
listening. 

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I just kind of, you know, in my,
in my closer friend circle, I 

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know what they're interested. 
I know what they're concerned 

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about thinking about. 
So normally I just listen and 

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see, OK, you know what might 
resonate with them. 

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I have a friend, a lot of her 
family is from Russia. 

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And so sometimes we'd more so 
talk about the ability to, you 

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know, have money that can't be 
taken from you. 

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Or it really kind of varies a 
little bit. 

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Sometimes it's just sharing 
history. 

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Like I think at least in my 
journey of coming to learn about

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Bitcoin and understand Bitcoin, 
I just didn't know what 

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questions to ask. 
I just didn't even know what I 

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should be thinking about And so 
sharing some history that might 

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come up and but if I had to give
like, you know one sentence that

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is sort of I think resonates 
with pretty much everybody and I

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can't take credit from it for 
this sentence say, fitting a 

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moose at it. 
But Bitcoin, and I'm 

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paraphrasing, but Bitcoin is a 
tool to earn your wealth once 

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instead of twice. 
And so, you know, when I'm 

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talking to my peers, we're all 
in college, you know, starting 

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getting our first job, starting 
to think about how are we going 

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to take care of ourselves. 
The not many people are against.

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Yeah, I'm on board with earning 
my money once instead of working

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to it again. 
So sometimes that's just a a 

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good hook as like a conversation
starter to start thinking about.

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And I also really emphasize, you
know, you don't have to change 

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whatever you're interested in to
be interested in Bitcoin. 

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Like because it's, you know, my 
personal life, this is very 

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Bitcoin, which is my choice. 
It's how I want to spend my time

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and energy. 
But I just preface, you know, 

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keep your interest, what you're 
interested in. 

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You know you don't need to 
change that to be interested in 

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Bitcoin. 
Yeah. 

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Well, maybe that's also the 
entire point, right. 

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I think if we talk about the 
problems that Fiat money gives 

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us is that people are doing 
things to earn money that they 

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don't enjoy doing, right? 
Because they are they are forced

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to to do them instead of being 
able to create time to explore 

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what they actually want to do, 
right. 

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So I think, I think that's a 
that's a great angle. 

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So do you think like the the 
topic of money is a big thing? 

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Or like how do how do people end
up thinking about Bitcoin or 

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asking you about Bitcoin? 
Like what's what are kind of 

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like the angles where they 
discover it or start thinking 

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about it. 
Yeah, I think it's it's hugely 

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also dependent on where you are 
in the world if you've grown up 

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experiencing financial privilege
Tees as glad team's term or if 

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you have not. 
And so that's just one right off

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kind of early on that you 
encounter normally in class I 

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focus on a lot of research 
topics in different classes. 

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It's kind of inevitable to talk 
about it. 

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And the other day we had the 
program I'm in at Cornell called

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the College Scholar Program. 
We're all going around sharing 

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our abstracts for our proposals,
for our thesis that we'll write,

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and then they get to mind. 
And as everyone starts laughing,

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people like I have no idea what 
Bitcoin is, but this sounds so 

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interesting and so yeah, it's 
it's not. 

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I wish I had a better, more 
definite answer of what's the 

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angle people are interested in. 
I think it's just, you know, 

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what's your background, your 
story, what are you interested 

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in currently? 
Like maybe if you're a 

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communications major, all the 
misinformation, maybe that's 

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interesting to you and like a 
new case study. 

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Maybe you're, you know, in CS 
and you're interested in kind of

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like building on lightning or 
whatever. 

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It might be 1 core maybe, you 
know, one project in this 

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program they're focused on 
renewable energy and so for them

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like maybe it's the Bitcoin 
mining. 

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So it's a variety and I think 
that's a huge gift. 

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It's not one-size-fits-all, 
just, you know, any person can 

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study the aspect that resonates 
with them. 

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Yeah. 
So lots of people have comments 

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on millennials. 
You know we are the trophy 

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generation. 
We we got trophies for 

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participating and and stuff. 
But I think like on Gen. 

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Z there's even more like 
comments and well, let's call 

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them preconceptions. 
But I kind of like see like from

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my point of view, I kind of see 
like 2 two sides of Gen. 

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C kind of like extrapolated. 
Like they either have a very 

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like nihilistic worldview. 
You know it's all going to shit 

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and it's not going to work out. 
And how does my future look like

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and will the world still exist? 
And like you know all these 

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things like or they have a very 
optimistic world, world view. 

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You know and I, I, I, I lean 
towards the optimistic also 

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because I think you know even 
more than like the millennial 

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generation who got into Internet
like at 12:13, 14/15/16 ish, 

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like you grew up with the 
Internet, you already have like 

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all the information of the world
at your fingertips, right. 

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So how, how do you look towards 
the future and and what do you 

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see your generation contribute 
to to the world? 

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I mean, I think I would follow 
you and that I look at the world

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with a very optimistic outlook. 
I think, you know I go back to 

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why I have Gen. 
Z as the beginning, end of the 

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alphabet, beginning of the 
future. 

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Like this is the world that 
we're going to inherit. 

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These problems are our problems 
that we need to figure out and 

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solve and so, but I mean I also 
know that from what I see on 

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Twitter sometimes like the 
videos of people complaining on 

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TikTok or whatever. 
And so I guess that's kind of 

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one side that you're mentioning.
But in my daily life what I see 

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is I see like the library full 
of people working. 

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I have seen friends, you know, 
staying up till 2:00 AM, working

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people exerting energy to do 
good to try to contribute to 

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society. 
So I guess I would just take the

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optimistic view and very is 
foolish in my generation that we

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are not just going to say oh you
know, forget it, that we are 

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going to take action and you 
know, work to build a better 

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future. 
Yeah. 

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So do you think I think like 
every generation points at the 

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previous generation, right like 
how what's your feeling there 

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like you know if you follow the 
the optimistic peers like you 

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know when you talk about 
inheriting the world like it is 

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like is there a lot of finger 
pointing or do you think people 

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feel empowered to to figure it 
out I. 

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Mean I think finger pointing is 
just a waste of time. 

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Like I personally wouldn't do it
again with the history. 

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Like most people do not know 
that the dollar's lost 98% of 

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its purchasing power since 1971.
They're not saying like I don't 

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and I've never heard one of my 
friends say, oh Nixon, like you 

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shouldn't have done that. 
Whatever. 

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I think just finger pointing's 
not effective. 

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Like let's just spend our time 
and energy doing something 

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productive and maybe you're like
spend a lot of time going down 

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the wrong path. 
Like maybe the solution you 

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think will work doesn't. 
But I just generally see people 

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trying to put their energy to do
something good, not just like 

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sitting and finger pointing on 
the whole. 

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Hey there, I want to ask you for
a quick favor. 

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I noticed something interesting.
75% of my viewers aren't 

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subscribed yet. 
Subscribing helps me grow this 

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channel, ensuring more great 
content each week. 

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So if you're enjoying our 
conversations on Bitcoin for 

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00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,960
millennials, please consider 
hitting the subscribe button on 

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YouTube or the follow button on 
your favorite podcasting app. 

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I'm super grateful for everyone 
who already joined and shared 

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their thoughts. 
Your feedback really keeps me 

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going and I want to ask you to 
continue doing that. 

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I tried to respond to all the 
comments and also the emails 

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that I get and DMS on Twitter, 
etcetera. 

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So don't stop doing that. 
I'll keep going. 

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Now let's get back to the 
conversation. 

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I record an episode with your 
mother Lisa and for our 

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listeners, check out episode 30.
She's obviously super orange 

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built now, but and I'm, I'm 
assuming you talk about Bitcoin 

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with her a lot, but what was her
influence on you when you know 

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when you grew up, when it when 
it came to like learning about 

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money, finance and economics, 
Like how did you get into these 

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topics? 
Yeah. 

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So I think it's always helpful 
to kind of, you know, with time 

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you can reflect back and see 
what are the little, I call them

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like dots that you collected 
that now you can connect. 

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And so I remember and maybe it 
was in 6th grade, maybe honestly

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probably earlier than that, 
maybe 4th grade very young. 

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And we were at dinner. 
We're talking about what I'm 

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going to study in college. 
And I made some comment along 

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the lines of, oh, well, you 
know, I don't want to do 

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something just for the sake of 
money. 

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I don't. 
I want to do something that I 

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enjoy And my myself was like, 
no, no, you know, it is 

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expensive to just go outside and
breathe. 

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And so we sat down and made a 
spreadsheet. 

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You know, we looked up like, OK,
what major are you kind of 

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interested in? 
And I loved history. 

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I still love history. 
And so we're like, OK, what's 

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the average starting salary of a
history major? 

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Where do you want to live? 
You know, how much are 

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utilities, Internet, like 
everything. 

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And the math just doesn't work, 
or it didn't work in that sense.

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So I'd say that was probably one
of the first moments when really

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started talking about money. 
And also say my parents always 

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they they I didn't have a kids 
table. 

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Like I was a part of every 
conversation, whether I 

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understood what was going on or 
not. 

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And so then when it came time to
apply to colleges was applying 

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CS. 
And prior to that, now we're 

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going to jump to high school is 
when my mom and I both started 

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learning about Bitcoin. 
Different avenues, but pretty 

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00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,560
much the same time. 
And I my high school I was at, 

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there was this program called 
the Technology Innovation and 

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00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,840
Entrepreneurship program. 
And to fulfill that program you 

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did it the whole years you were 
there. 

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You had to take certain courses.
So I selected the innovation 

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strand and one of the courses 
was called Block Chain. 

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That was it. 
And so that was really when I 

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00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:34,840
say I first learned about 
Bitcoin but purely learned it 

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just as distributed Ledger 
technology, supply chain use 

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00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,720
cases. 
And I thought, OK, you know, 

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that's cool, but not for me. 
I'm really interested in AI and 

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00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,360
AI ethics. 
And at the same time, my mom, I 

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think Greta was reading the MIT 
Tech Review and they had 

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something on blockchain. 
And so she was just, I think 

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we're both very curious. 
She was just learning, OK, you 

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00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,440
know, what is this? 
We took the like Gary Gensler 

228
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,440
Blockchain and Money MIT open 
course for her together. 

229
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,920
Pretty good actually. 
I did it too. 

230
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,800
Yeah. 
And so that was really at the 

231
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,720
beginning and she definitely 
fell down the rabbit hole first.

232
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,280
But then we both went to the 
Oslo Freedom Forum and I think 

233
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:31,040
it was like June 2022. 
And that is the moment for me 

234
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,520
where I say I really feel like I
discovered Bitcoin, appreciated 

235
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,920
Bitcoin. 
And on the plane ride back was 

236
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,080
really like when I started going
down the rabbit hole. 

237
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,200
When I got back read the US 
budget, it was just like what is

238
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:50,360
going on in this world. 
So we had separate but together 

239
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:55,880
paths and now it's you know such
a gift to be able to talk about 

240
00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:01,560
this with her and be in 
community with other bitcoiners 

241
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:06,000
as well. 
Yeah, So what were the elements 

242
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,000
of Bitcoin that made-up your aha
moment? 

243
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,360
What made it click? 
Yes. 

244
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,280
So it's a lot. 
I think it's a lot of different 

245
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,720
things building up on it there. 
So OK, I mentioned like the 

246
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,560
blockchain course also freedom 
forum, just it's it's really 

247
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,640
embarrassing to admit, but I had
no I had such immense financial 

248
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,800
privilege, I did not really know
the concept of what that you 

249
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,400
could just be debanked or you 
know how money can really be a 

250
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,640
tool to take away the rights of 
humans. 

251
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,120
And so that was a huge one. 
And it also taken a course on 

252
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,600
creativity and you know, to 
study a creator and just think 

253
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,920
about, you know, think about 
things differently and you know,

254
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,200
what could be next. 
Ask questions. 

255
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,480
Don't just take established 
truths. 

256
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,440
And so I've had all these little
touch points. 

257
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,640
And then the more you learn 
about Bitcoin and you learn 

258
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,680
about it as a tool, you know, 
privacy, protecting freedom, 

259
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,240
technology, you learn about 
proof of work. 

260
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,280
But that's how our society 
works. 

261
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,280
Like, I'm not going to graduate 
from college because of proof of

262
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,160
stake, You know, I have to go do
my work. 

263
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,600
Low time preference, delayed 
gratification, all of that 

264
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,440
really just it's like, yes, this
makes sense. 

265
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,200
This money system that we had 
before, none of that makes sense

266
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,320
like Bitcoin does. 
And there were some, you know, 

267
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,040
logical tidbits that you learn. 
Of course that's obvious. 

268
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:47,920
So many things all contributing.
So I can imagine that maybe also

269
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,520
because you are younger, like 
there are just some things that 

270
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,880
you just find very logical about
Bitcoin, you know? 

271
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,760
Like why? 
Why would a money system work? 

272
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,760
You know any way else? 
Yeah. 

273
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,160
Are there some things that you 
can elaborate on? 

274
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,880
I mean, what I love about, you 
know, doing the podcast also. 

275
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:10,760
So again, I talked with your 
mom. 

276
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,280
I talked with, you know, fellow 
millennials, but also to some 

277
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,160
boomers, right? 
Like everyone has something that

278
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,000
they have to kind of change, 
right? 

279
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,440
Like things they thought were 
true or that they believed in a 

280
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,320
certain way, or a world view, 
right? 

281
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,480
And I feel like the younger you 
get, the more logical Bitcoin 

282
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,120
sounds, but you were the perfect
person to ask so. 

283
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,800
Yeah, I could say I have a 
couple different things and 

284
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,120
analogies I always find super 
helpful. 

285
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,080
So I kind of framed them in that
sense. 

286
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,120
The first one being, you know, 
when you're little, I don't know

287
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,680
if maybe you'd did this too but 
you have like a Piggy Bank for 

288
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,120
your allowance. 
If you know your chores, maybe 

289
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,240
you get a small allowance. 
And so just the concept of when 

290
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,960
you're so young, well you're 
custodying your wealth you're, 

291
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,000
you know, the little little, but
you're taking on the 

292
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,560
responsibility of custodying 
your economic energy, your time,

293
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,839
your wealth. 
And then I remember being so 

294
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,160
excited when I was, I don't 
know, 1314, whatever. 

295
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,839
And I was old enough to go and 
get a bank account. 

296
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,640
Why was I so excited to just 
hand over all of my. 

297
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:25,400
Well, that's one. 
I think the idea of owning the 

298
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,080
same slice of something for 
forever, like there's 21 million

299
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,680
Bitcoin, whatever how many SAT's
you have, you know, you will 

300
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,160
always have that percent of the 
21 million. 

301
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,360
And then the idea, this is kind 
of another analogy, but and I 

302
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:45,040
can't take credit for it, but we
have a standard measure of time 

303
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,480
in the world. 
And so if money is supposed to 

304
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,520
be how we can express our 
preferences and value and we 

305
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,640
have no standard unit of 
measurement per value. 

306
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,800
So to kind of unpack that a 
little bit, if you know you have

307
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,520
60 seconds in your minute, I 
have 60 seconds in my minute. 

308
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,560
And if our, if we didn't have 
that, our world would be so 

309
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,040
chaotic it would be hard to get 
anything done. 

310
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:12,920
But that's the reality And 
money. 

311
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,640
There's, you know, 180 different
Fiat currencies. 

312
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,720
You know what a precise number 
is. 

313
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,560
We have no standard unit of 
measurement for value and that 

314
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,240
creates a lot of friction and 
you'll, you know, add in 

315
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,600
exchange rates and that the 
currencies themselves are 

316
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,760
changing. 
And so, you know, Bitcoin is 

317
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,640
just this neutral, you know, 
overture of preference and value

318
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,040
that's accessible to all 8 
billion people equitably, just 

319
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:45,400
yes and. 
I love these two things like 

320
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,360
especially last one I think is 
great, let's touch upon that. 

321
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,560
But but the first one like 
giving money to the bank, you 

322
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,080
know it's it's a great example. 
I'm going to, I'm going to keep 

323
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,880
this in mind because this is the
thing, right. 

324
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:04,400
Like I talk a lot about you know
if, if, if you know how the 

325
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,080
banking system works, right. 
So that takes some, some 

326
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,000
studying, right? 
It's just so fascinating that 

327
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,040
you basically like outsource 
your own responsibility over 

328
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,400
your own life, right? 
You outsource the responsibility

329
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,160
over your own life to an 
organization also just made-up 

330
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,520
of individual people that you 
couldn't name and that don't 

331
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,080
care that you know I'm me and 
you are you. 

332
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,240
And you know that Piggy Bank is 
something you hold on to for 

333
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,400
dear life when you're younger. 
And my, my 6 year old son also 

334
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,040
has like this little wallet with
his money. 

335
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,840
And you know, that's like really
his thing. 

336
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,520
Sometimes he asks me where's my 
money? 

337
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,680
And then I say, well it's it's 
here in the drawer, right. 

338
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,120
And like how do we get to a 
point where we just give it 

339
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,920
away? 
This is pretty astonishing. 

340
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,280
To do it. 
I'm so excited. 

341
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,840
Also, yeah, that's wild, But did
they give you like a promotion 

342
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:57,920
offer? 
Like, did they give you 

343
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,200
something? 
No, it wasn't. 

344
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,000
It wasn't like a credit card or 
anything. 

345
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000
It was just like. 
I don't know. 

346
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,880
I was like, I I remember I went 
to the bank and like, I'd take, 

347
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,880
like when I would scoop ice 
cream and I'd go and I'd get the

348
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,800
the little piece of paper that 
then you can roll the coins up, 

349
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,440
you know, like from pips. 
And I'm just like, oh, this is 

350
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,200
so fun. 
And I'm, I don't know why I 

351
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,440
really enjoyed doing this, but I
was like OK, I'm going to roll 

352
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,800
up my quarters, my pennies and 
then I'm going to go deposit in 

353
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,000
the bank. 
And I, I don't know, I think 

354
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,920
it's just something like well 
this is the default of how 

355
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,920
society works and we're excited 
to participate and feel like a 

356
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,920
grown up and adult. 
I don't know, I was probably 

357
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,800
more that. 
Than promotional. 

358
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,840
Yeah, it's interesting because 
in my country there's like these

359
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,480
children accounts, right. 
And they do like promotions. 

360
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,760
You get like a little a little 
cash register for at home or 

361
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,680
like something with soccer or I 
don't know. 

362
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,040
But now that you mentioned this 
like I I, yeah, it's so 

363
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,120
interesting that you know, 
nobody really asked the question

364
00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:02,200
what is money or how does a bank
work etcetera, because it's like

365
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,680
this. 
How do you say this? 

366
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,560
Like it's, it's, it's it's like 
a construct in a sense, right? 

367
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,160
Like this is what you do or 
something, but you never 

368
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,600
question it. 
I think this is also one of the 

369
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,160
things why when you're older 
it's and it and then you 

370
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,920
discover Bitcoin and how banking
works and all these things like 

371
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,880
it's just way harder to accept 
that you were kind of like lured

372
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,320
into this unconsciously like 
without knowing how it how it 

373
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,880
works. 
Yeah fascinating. 

374
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,560
So how, how do you, Well, maybe 
back to like also your peers 

375
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,040
like do do they think about this
like do they do they understand 

376
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,400
that the banking system is not 
designed to work for for you as 

377
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,640
an individual? 
So I would have probably had a 

378
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,840
different answer up until 
yesterday morning. 

379
00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,480
I think like I think on the 
whole, people don't realize, you

380
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,560
know, the intricacies of the 
banking system. 

381
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,920
I certainly don't know all of 
the intricacies of the banking 

382
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:14,520
system, but I was sitting in a 
class yesterday and it's a kind 

383
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,760
of like a network. 
See algorithms, market, auction 

384
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,640
class and they were talking 
about bonds and anyways they 

385
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:29,520
brought up the Fed reserve rate 
and I can't remember exactly the

386
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,600
framing of it, but one guy 
raised his hand and he was like 

387
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,600
well how is this impacted given 
that during COVID the reserve 

388
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,720
rate went from you know whatever
10% to 0% and they haven't you 

389
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,880
know, brought it back since 
COVID. 

390
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,880
How does this change? 
And so I didn't really think 

391
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,080
many of the people were thinking
about that besides me before. 

392
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,480
And then I also add, so as you 
mentioned, this semester I 

393
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,320
started the Cornell, the Coin 
Club. 

394
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,480
And I, you know, when I set out 
to do it, I was like, you know, 

395
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,000
this is worthwhile to do if it's
just me and one other person, 

396
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,760
you know, you have to have 10. 
So I I knew I had ten people to 

397
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,120
do this with, but now we have 65
people on the mailing list. 

398
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,120
And so I think I'm consistently,
really pleasantly surprised and 

399
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:22,720
grateful. 
How many people you know are 

400
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,560
beginning to think about money 
and about systems that exist 

401
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,120
outside of the phone system? 
Yeah, wow. 

402
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,520
That's super hopeful to hear, 
actually. 

403
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,200
And This is why I just, I'm 
optimistic and I think it's more

404
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,640
productive to be optimistic and 
not just, you know, sit back and

405
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,800
someone else will fix it and 
just know like whatever, whoever

406
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,320
you are, whatever you know you 
want to do, like you can 

407
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,320
contribute. 
And I think that's really 

408
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,960
empowering. 
Yeah, so the other thing you 

409
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,160
mentioned, the standard measure 
of value. 

410
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,960
For me, that's also, it's such a
logical thing, right? 

411
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,080
Because it should exist that 
that would actually enable 

412
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,200
global trade, right? 
But the fact that it doesn't 

413
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,520
exist, how many Fiat currencies 
are there? 

414
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,520
You said 100. 
It's. 

415
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,880
Like 180? 
That is, that is like a war by 

416
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,680
itself, right? 
Just the currency wars against 

417
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,160
each other. 
Like if my currencies in my 

418
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,440
country is stronger than in your
country, like I can persuade 

419
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,480
people to adopt my currency and 
then I undermine yours and then 

420
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,480
I slowly take over your trade, 
right. 

421
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,360
Stuff like this sounds so 
simple. 

422
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,440
Obviously it's it's very complex
because we live in a world where

423
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,680
this is like going on, right? 
But the standard measure of 

424
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,080
value, yeah, just makes so much 
sense, right? 

425
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,240
Because it it also shouldn't 
really matter, you know, it 

426
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,400
practically it doesn't work like
this. 

427
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,480
But you know, if I need someone 
to do something for me, whether 

428
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:03,560
they are from my country or your
country or Nigeria or Italy, 

429
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,080
shouldn't really matter, right? 
So even if they would come over 

430
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,600
and provide the service or or 
give or or build a product for 

431
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:18,680
me, we should be able to award 
people in the same in the same 

432
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,440
way all over the world. 
And yeah, we have a measure for 

433
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,960
time, we have a measure for for 
distance. 

434
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,400
Although in America that's also.
Different I. 

435
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,600
Don't know why, but the the the 
standard measure for value, it 

436
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,720
makes so much sense Sense 
because at the roots it's just 

437
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,480
energy expenditure, right from 
whoever creates a product or a 

438
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,960
service, its energy expenditure 
in a certain amount of time, and

439
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,080
that's the same for everyone. 
So why? 

440
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,920
Why is the rewards difference? 
Yeah, that's a great one. 

441
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,720
I'm going to, I'm going to read 
up on that more because perhaps 

442
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,160
we should start, we should start
like a petition, we should start

443
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,120
something to create a standard 
measure of value. 

444
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,040
But this angle of of Bitcoin I 
think is really interesting, 

445
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,720
right? 
Because I think also because 

446
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,400
people have these conceptions or
beliefs about money or banking 

447
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,760
or value or wealth or all these 
things, right. 

448
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,440
I think that's why it's also 
very hard to well, actually 

449
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,920
understand Bitcoin, because you 
have all these different 

450
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,800
dimensions and, well, things you
have to challenge personally 

451
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,640
before you understand it. 
But if we talk about the 

452
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,760
standard measure of value 
without mentioning Bitcoin, it 

453
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,520
could be a nice explanation for 
eventually we would mention 

454
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,880
Bitcoin obviously, but I think 
it would be like a good angle 

455
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,920
for for a conversation starter, 
right. 

456
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:50,440
I think I saw a tweet today by I
think it's bit wise, CEO. 

457
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,320
Is that Matt Hogan? 
No. 

458
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:53,640
I think so, yeah. 
I. 

459
00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:02,680
Think I was Hunter and he talks 
about, you know, the comparison 

460
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:08,440
to calling Bitcoin digital gold 
is kind of undermining what 

461
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,520
Bitcoin actually is, right? 
It's it's illustrating it 

462
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,320
because people can kind of 
relate to it, but at the same 

463
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,000
time it's also undermining it a 
bit. 

464
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,000
Yeah, I think I saw that as 
well. 

465
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,280
And then in the comments or 
maybe that was in it, it was 

466
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,560
like, well, you know people 
don't use gold that much. 

467
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,880
Like it was like if you're 
saying, oh, it's just did evil 

468
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,720
gold. 
Well then, if I remembering 

469
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:35,000
someone, yeah, basically. 
Like, you're kind of short what 

470
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,000
we could be. 
Well, it's. 

471
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,360
It's only if you take certain 
types of properties from 

472
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,520
Bitcoin, right? 
But I I replied below it like, 

473
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,280
it is time. 
And then I mentioned a clip from

474
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,400
the presentation of Michael 
Saylor this week where he talks 

475
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,320
about this, right? 
Like, it is not gold, It's not a

476
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,400
commodity. 
It's it's engineered scarcity. 

477
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:03,040
And the only thing that is 
scarce, real, really scarce. 

478
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,160
There's one thing, and that is 
time, right? 

479
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,920
And there's multiple people that
talk about Bitcoin this time, 

480
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,240
right? 
Like GG has articles. 

481
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,640
Well, and so, you know, if you, 
if you walk that path, then you 

482
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,360
would end up at, you know, well,
if we have a measurement for 

483
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:21,480
time, then Bitcoin could be the 
measurement for value, right? 

484
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,080
So yeah, I love that. 
I love that angle. 

485
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,400
So how how has Bitcoin changed 
your world for you? 

486
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,200
I mean, well, you went to the 
Oslov Freedom Forum 222 years 

487
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,320
ago or 18 months ago. 
Like, was that one of those? 

488
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,720
Well, you shared it was one of 
those moments. 

489
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,800
But like how? 
How do you look at the world? 

490
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,920
You have this optimistic 
outlook, but what is your view 

491
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,200
of the world? 
Well, I think I've also been 

492
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:53,120
very fortunate in that I am 
learning about Bitcoin so early 

493
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,440
and that's why, you know another
reason why I really think it's 

494
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,200
important that people my age 
younger just learn about Bitcoin

495
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,880
Now. 
There's a, I've noticed there's 

496
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,920
a tendency to just push off kind
of thinking about money or, you 

497
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,640
know, I don't have time for that
just because of it's like we 

498
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,360
can't get out of the system that
just does everything to keep us 

499
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,440
in it. 
And so I feel very grateful to 

500
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,800
have learned about Bitcoin now 
and it being really formative in

501
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,080
my world view or enhancing my 
world view. 

502
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,080
You know, I had wonderful 
parents who I think really did a

503
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,720
good job of, you know, teaching 
me about the world and how to in

504
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,080
the world. 
But learning about Bitcoin and 

505
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,560
Bitcoin is money and the concept
that money is a tool to shape 

506
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,400
reality and the the reality we 
live in is one that has a lot of

507
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,760
greed and dishonesty. 
And then Bitcoin presenting 

508
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,560
itself as OK, well, this is 
something that we could a tool 

509
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,760
we can use to build a more 
honest future, a more honest 

510
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,000
reality. 
So that's, you know, one shape 

511
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,200
of my world view. 
And then I think just on the 

512
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,200
like stepping back a little bit,
it's really empowering to be a 

513
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,040
part of something so much bigger
than yourself and something that

514
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,360
encourages you to think for 
yourself and where it's a norm 

515
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,200
to, you know, don't trust, 
verify, do your proof of work 

516
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,400
first principles thinking. 
And so it's almost like you 

517
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,800
know, Bitcoin shapes my world 
view or helps shape it. 

518
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,320
But also it's at the same time 
telling me, you know, you go 

519
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,560
shape your world for you, you go
make a decision of an opinion. 

520
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,200
And so that's an aspect that I 
appreciate. 

521
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,440
And another thing I try to share
with friends. 

522
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:48,120
And yeah, so I think one final 
point I heard on a podcast a 

523
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,480
couple of months ago now, and 
they basically just said, you 

524
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,960
know, if you have life, you have
purpose, go find it. 

525
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,240
And so for me, I feel really 
grateful to have found Bitcoin 

526
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,120
and to be able to put my time 
and energy into this system. 

527
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,720
And something else I taught my 
friends though is but that you 

528
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,680
don't have to choose to do that.
Like Bitcoin can just be money 

529
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,240
for you that allows you to save 
and then have the ability to 

530
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,440
choose and think and acts in a 
way that aligns with your 

531
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,520
values. 
So I guess they put a bow on it 

532
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,520
like it's shaped my world view 
and also taught me how to shape 

533
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,320
my world view for myself. 
I love that. 

534
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,480
I wish I would have that. 
I had that when I was 21. 

535
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,680
But I think that's great, right?
Like, I, I, I, I love hearing 

536
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:37,000
this because for me, this is 
also, I think, what strengthens 

537
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,160
my positive outlook for the 
future, right? 

538
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,960
Like the fact that you can find 
your purpose at such a young 

539
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,080
age, that's amazing. 
Like, I love that you're sharing

540
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,840
that, right? 
I had had a conversation on on 

541
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,520
another podcast with with Luke 
Broyles about like trying to 

542
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,400
contribute to Bitcoin as you 
mentioned. 

543
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,480
Also, you know, in whatever way,
I mean, I just started another 

544
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:00,200
podcast. 
You. 

545
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,000
Know. 
Oh my gosh. 

546
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,160
But no, I mean this one right? 
Like. 

547
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,240
Another Another. 
I thought you were starting 

548
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,600
another podcast. 
I was like. 

549
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,680
Oh gosh. 
But like the the act of sharing 

550
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,160
is already the inspiration, I 
think, right? 

551
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,320
And it doesn't really matter 
what, what you do. 

552
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,320
Once you see that, you know 
Bitcoin is something that could 

553
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,560
really change the world, then it
doesn't really matter how you 

554
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,520
can contribute, right. 
And even you know what you say 

555
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,280
to your friends, I think, right?
Like if they adopt it as their 

556
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,840
money or their way of of saving 
their wealth or building their 

557
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:40,000
wealth towards the future, they 
are also contributing to to 

558
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,440
Bitcoin, right? 
Because they are, they're going 

559
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,920
to be users of it. 
So yeah, I love that explanation

560
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,400
because it's just it, it doesn't
really matter where you come 

561
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,280
from or what you do, like you 
can contribute in any way. 

562
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,200
And that also ties into I think 
some of the dimensions of 

563
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,520
Bitcoin, right, like the 
permissionless aspect or the 

564
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,520
trustless aspect or the 
apolitical, a religious, all 

565
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,360
these things like it doesn't 
matter who you are and where you

566
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,080
come from, like anyone can can 
contribute to this. 

567
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,680
And So what you said about the 
honesty points, I really like 

568
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,920
that too, right? 
Because I think Bitcoin forces 

569
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,000
transparency, so it forces you 
to add value. 

570
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,280
And if you don't add enough 
value and people don't want to 

571
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,440
share their Bitcoin with you, 
then you should just go and do 

572
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,840
something else, right? 
Like, I think it's actually the 

573
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,960
perfect maybe cure for 
capitalism in the sense that it 

574
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,160
would really work, right? 
Like if you are better at baking

575
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,280
cakes than I am, then you know 
I'm going to do something else 

576
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,520
and you win. 
And that's all good. 

577
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,680
Yeah. 
So I think, I think that's a 

578
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,200
really, that's a really nice 
point. 

579
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,960
So if we move on to what you're 
doing at Cornell, you are 

580
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:59,200
studying Bitcoin. 
How did you manage to get that 

581
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,560
through at at a top university 
like Cornell? 

582
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,080
How did How did that go? 
So it was a long process, I 

583
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,840
guess to over an overview. 
It took about 15 months to do 

584
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,360
and so I had spent my for some 
contacts. 

585
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,040
I spent my junior year of high 
school in Beijing until COVID 

586
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,520
broke out and we all had to go 
home. 

587
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:25,199
But I really wanted to go back 
after that happened. 

588
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,199
And so I spent my freshman year 
at NYU Shanghai, although that 

589
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:35,920
was all remote because again, 
but because I did not get into 

590
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Cordell initially, I received 
the transfer offer. 

591
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,000
So it was, you know, you can 
come as a sophomore, but I was a

592
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,239
freshman. 
And so it was during, you know, 

593
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,159
that time that I was really down
the like AI ethics was really 

594
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,239
interested in Chinese and the 
characters. 

595
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,760
And that's a whole other topic 
that I say, you know, all that 

596
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,400
just has spending a lot of time 
at home, not on a campus. 

597
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,640
In that freshman year, I was 
able to think about Bitcoin and 

598
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,520
learn more about it. 
And then I went to the Oslo 

599
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,120
Freedom Forum that summer, right
before I was going to Cornell. 

600
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,840
And then I got to Cornell and 
learned the thing that I had an 

601
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,200
independent major program. 
I was like, I have to do 

602
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,800
Bitcoin. 
I have to figure out how to 

603
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,200
study this. 
And so I started it, you know, I

604
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:27,280
think September, October, right 
when I got there and I didn't, 

605
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,400
it wasn't much success. 
It's a lot of, you know, we 

606
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,040
don't think it's a good idea for
you to study something that's 

607
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,320
1415 years old that we think you
could really benefit from an 

608
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,400
established curriculum. 
How about you study the gold 

609
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,800
standard block chains, the true 
innovation, not Bitcoin here. 

610
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,120
And I just kept persisting. 
I just took all the noses. 

611
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,640
Not yet. 
And it's just because you know, 

612
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,200
once you're once you see Bitcoin
because people say you can't 

613
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,800
Unsee it. 
I was like, this is not 

614
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,240
something that I am willing to 
give up trying to say that. 

615
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:02,680
I think it's important that I 
spend my time doing this. 

616
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,480
So anyways, I spent the whole 
year doing that. 

617
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,720
I couldn't ever quite find a 
faculty to also serve as a 

618
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:12,920
sponsor for that major. 
And then circle around to the 

619
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,880
beginning of this year, I 
received a new academic advisor,

620
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,440
and she graduated from Cornell. 
She's an alumna, and she did 

621
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,720
this program called the College 
Scholar Program. 

622
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,920
Now it's the Robert S Harrison 
College Program. 

623
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,440
And she was telling me about it 
and I was like, Oh my gosh, you 

624
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,320
know, I know I'm a year late and
applying, but is there any way I

625
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,160
can apply? 
I've been trying to do this 

626
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,880
independent major. 
I can't seem to get, you know, 

627
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,520
much traction on it. 
And she was like, I don't, I 

628
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:48,840
don't know anyways, so let me 
apply exams of December and then

629
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,360
it was approved in January. 
So this program, it's a little 

630
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,360
bit more supportive or maybe 
more established in the 

631
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,560
independent major program was. 
So I'm a big believer in things 

632
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,480
always work out. 
So right now I'm working on 

633
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,360
putting together my committee or
kind of my board for my oral 

634
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,240
defense that I'll do next spring
for the thesis that I'll write 

635
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:12,600
next year. 
And there's, you know, a couple 

636
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,360
classes that you take, and 
you're in a cohort. 

637
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,480
So there's about 60 people on 
campus all doing different 

638
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,600
things. 
And it's like, it's so 

639
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,080
energizing and hopeful for me 
because I, you know, go to that 

640
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,720
seminar and I hear people 
talking about their ideas that 

641
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,040
like, are so interesting. 
It's like this is what education

642
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,080
is supposed to be like. 
This is what sound money allows 

643
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,600
us to do. 
It's just go be curious, think 

644
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,680
differently. 
So anyways, my thesis right now,

645
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,800
the title is kind of what my 
daughter handled, showing that 

646
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,000
the 21 million Bitcoin are tools
for the 21st century. 

647
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,200
And I right now have haunted 
down to look at the economic 

648
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,640
energy and linguistics 
components or to kind of prove 

649
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,720
that thesis from those angles. 
So yes, that will really all 

650
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:05,040
kick off next year. 
And then I have a couple other 

651
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,680
like minors majors, but I I get 
to choose all my courses and 

652
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,960
it's really just your 
intellectual freedom. 

653
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,760
Amazing. 
Amazing. 

654
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,040
So what is the linguistics 
aspect there? 

655
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,440
Yes. 
And so this is the worst that I 

656
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,000
am. 
This is the one that I'm worst 

657
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,640
at saying concisely for this 
because I'm still like going 

658
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,720
through this all in my head. 
So let me try it. 

659
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,960
And I was hope I could not sleep
last night because I was 

660
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,960
sleeping OK. 
But essentially, you know, if 

661
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,920
money is how we express our 
preferences and values and 

662
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,280
language. 
I took a class previously and it

663
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,440
introduced the idea of the 
language game and how just like 

664
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,720
you and I right now we're 
playing a language game, you 

665
00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:00,400
know, can I understand your 
meaning, Can you understand 

666
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,160
mine? 
And if we both can, then we've 

667
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,800
won. 
But if you think of just like a 

668
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,840
water bottle, like the 
bottleneck, it's really hard to 

669
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,040
get all the meaning that I want 
to share to you through that and

670
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,160
vice versa. 
So there's different tools and 

671
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,080
strategies that we enact. 
But the point is that, you know,

672
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,920
then once you think about people
who speak different language, 

673
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,560
it's just it's hard just in 
spoken language to communicate 

674
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,560
our preferences. 
And so I when I start, I took 

675
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,440
that class, I started thinking 
about Bitcoin and well, OK, 

676
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Bitcoin is this language in a 
sense, that allows us to 

677
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,640
communicate with people 
worldwide and say, you know, I 

678
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,520
value your, your energy and who 
you are, what you do in a way 

679
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,080
that we've never really been 
able to before. 

680
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,160
And so that's kind of one 
thought process of this. 

681
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,240
Another is just, you know, code 
being speech. 

682
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,520
Language is power. 
You know, money is power. 

683
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,320
Transactions. 
You have the Linguistics 

684
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,760
component. 
And then the part I was thinking

685
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,640
about last night, it's still 
like very rough, but just how 

686
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,720
words are a little bit like a 
safe and you can see a word, you

687
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,080
can see it, but you don't always
know the meaning. 

688
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,240
Like it takes a lot of you have 
to, you know, spend time to 

689
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,000
unlock that meaning. 
And so I was just thinking about

690
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,720
like Bitcoin as a word. 
Yeah, a peer-to-peer electronic 

691
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:28,840
cash system. 
There's so much in all of that 

692
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,680
that the more time you spend 
learning, you actually 

693
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,240
appreciate like the first time I
heard electronic cash system, I 

694
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:40,040
had no idea the benefits of cash
of what you get when something's

695
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,800
electronic. 
So anyways that was a little bit

696
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,480
jumbled but I think you know 
I'll I'll flush it out but I I 

697
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,800
lost anything about this and 
we'll maybe I'll yeah maybe. 

698
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,480
Well, for the for the first, for
the first. 

699
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,480
For the first part. 
I'm thinking about what you said

700
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,000
about my I don't know who said 
this. 

701
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,880
I feel well, someone in Bitcoin 
maybe breathe, laugh probably. 

702
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,440
But like the money is a is a is 
also, it's a tool for 

703
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,040
communication also, right? 
Like as you said, the value 

704
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:24,400
exchange is I communicate to 
you, I can do XYZ for you or I 

705
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:30,440
can you know build or give you 
products ABC whatever I created 

706
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,480
right? 
And so I communicate what value 

707
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,680
I can bring to you, right? 
And my job is that to do that to

708
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,640
the best of my ability which 
basically starts with you know 

709
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,880
Ella, I understand the problem 
you have and therefore this is 

710
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,280
my solution, right? 
And then when you are accepting 

711
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,040
that, that is when we basically 
shake hands and do this value 

712
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,120
exchange, right. 
And so I think that is a a very 

713
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,480
clear form of communication, 
right. 

714
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:08,200
But then the technology we use 
to actually exchange the value, 

715
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,160
right? 
On one side, it's me expending 

716
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,080
my energy in a time to do the 
thing that I give to you, right?

717
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,960
And on the other hand other 
side, it's you using well Fiat 

718
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,640
money to basically communicate 
back. 

719
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,360
You know this is the value you 
delivered to me packaged in you 

720
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,720
know, the money, the money that 
we use. 

721
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:33,640
But because that money is 
corrupted, our communication 

722
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,800
gets corrupted. 
Maybe not at the moment when we 

723
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,400
shake hands and do the exchange 
right because at that, you know 

724
00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:45,120
that moment in the now, now you 
know at that moment that we 

725
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:51,120
shake hands, it's it's equal. 
But after that, the, the reward 

726
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,840
that I got starts to deteriorate
in value, right. 

727
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,240
And so therefore, at the moment 
of us communicating, our 

728
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:03,480
exchange got corrupted because 
well, basically an external 

729
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:07,760
technology. 
Well, that corrupted it, right? 

730
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,760
And so when you mention this, I 
think about Bitcoin is actually 

731
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,320
a tool that enables us to keep 
that that value that we 

732
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,600
exchange, right. 
I give you a product or a 

733
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,520
service and you give me the 
reward in return and it's and 

734
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,680
that stays equal, you know, so 
it it's, it solves the that 

735
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,680
corrupted communication. 
Well, that's kind of what I 

736
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,200
thought about. 
No, I love that. 

737
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:33,720
Yeah. 
So this is, that's probably the 

738
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,160
section that I am most 
interested in and the one that I

739
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,720
am worst at expressing it. 
Now if I don't write about 

740
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:44,440
something, I'm like, we're going
to, yes, I can't express it, but

741
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,720
I I think it's fascinating to 
think about it. 

742
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,960
Yeah, Well, I think this is part
of the paradigm shift because if

743
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,680
we can have equal exchanges all 
the time with anyone anywhere in

744
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,240
the world, that's going to be a 
very positive game instead of a 

745
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:03,680
0 sum game, right? 
That's field enables. 

746
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,520
So, yeah, to me, that's part of 
the paradigm in a sense like 

747
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,400
that. 
That just shifts everything to a

748
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,480
more positive world in a sense. 
All right, nice. 

749
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:20,200
So tell me about the Bitcoin 
Students Network, how that is 

750
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,240
going and how anyone listening 
who is a student or not, I don't

751
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:29,360
know, can contribute to the 
network and and the nonprofit 

752
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,120
you're building. 
Yes, well, anyone can 

753
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,760
contribute, not just students. 
So we launched the Bitcoin 

754
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,800
Students Network in March of 
this year and the Students 

755
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,120
Network is an initiative of 
Generation Bitcoin, which is a 

756
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,280
nonprofit focused on providing, 
you know, education and job 

757
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,240
opportunities for as the name 
with success. 

758
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,600
I suggest Generation Bitcoin 
kind of the younger generations 

759
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,920
and I did not found that our 
Shamalu who works at the Human 

760
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,160
Rights Foundation and Shawna 
Mizra who's the youngest bicker 

761
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,200
and Core contributor and Autumn 
Domingo who is a freshman in 

762
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,680
college and she signed a lot of 
Bitcoin UI UX work. 

763
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,240
They started it a couple years 
ago and then I joined them a 

764
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,400
couple years ago as well and 
Arsh and I Co founded the 

765
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,680
Bitcoin Students Network this 
year and it has this really the 

766
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,280
same missions but a little bit 
more targeted of an audience and

767
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,920
so it's about the 18 to 22 year 
old range. 

768
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,280
You don't necessarily have to be
a student in a university, but 

769
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,000
it is the mission there is how 
do we grow and scale Bitcoin 

770
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,920
clubs? 
And so there's kind of three 

771
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,360
different verticals of resources
that we're putting together. 

772
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,680
So logistics, how do you start a
Bitcoin club? 

773
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,360
What should you think about what
are best practices, educational?

774
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,360
It can. 
It's really time consuming to, 

775
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,240
you know, run a meeting. 
And so we're building out a kind

776
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:04,360
of repository of workshops And 
then financial at some 

777
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,760
universities give budgets to 
clubs, others don't. 

778
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,040
So we don't want that to be a 
hindrance. 

779
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,560
Also help students get to 
conferences or, you know, buy a 

780
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,560
book of something of that 
nature. 

781
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,280
And then another really huge 
piece that we're working on is 

782
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:26,360
the jobs front, because it's 
hard to say, you know, yes, I 

783
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,800
will spend my time thinking 
about Bitcoin or you know this. 

784
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,800
If if you don't see any path for
you to contribute or work on in 

785
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,640
the future, especially if you're
in university where you're just 

786
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,200
so focused on, OK, well, what am
I going to do to get my summer 

787
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,000
internship or whatever. 
Just having the jobs is a way to

788
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,200
just build a more sustainable 
investigation and interest in 

789
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,120
Bitcoin. 
So right now we have about, we 

790
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,040
have kind of nodes in this 
network in about 20-6 different 

791
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,080
countries. 
So it's it's worldwide. 

792
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,400
It's not just the US We have an 
incredible board of advisors. 

793
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,520
There's twelve of them across 
various different teams to help 

794
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,800
kind of support our mission. 
And yes, if you are a student, 

795
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,760
please be in touch. 
We'd love to support you even if

796
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,640
you're just one person you know 
right now and you're interested 

797
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,440
in starting a Bitcoin club. 
We like there's been fun stories

798
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,640
of like multiple people from the
same university filling out our 

799
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:33,000
interest form and then you know,
kind of connect with them. 

800
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:38,400
Also, if you are an individual, 
you know, maybe you can go 

801
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,320
volunteer to give an hour lesson
at your local university. 

802
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,600
Or if you're a company and you'd
like to take on some interns or 

803
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,840
do a workshop or a panel, really
anything you can contribute is 

804
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,520
most appreciative and need 
people's grateful to channel. 

805
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,480
Awesome. 
I will make sure to link to 

806
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,960
everything in the in the show 
notes so people can check it 

807
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,760
out. 
And well, hopefully some people 

808
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,320
are listening that could 
contribute if I I don't know if 

809
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,320
you're already in the 
Netherlands, but as mentioned 

810
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,120
before, I will definitely try to
help you and. 

811
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,080
Connect. 
With some universities here. 

812
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,360
So let's see if we can, if we 
can make that work. 

813
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,480
All right. 
So what advice would you give 

814
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,040
someone who is just starting to 
explore Bitcoin? 

815
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,960
You know, we mentioned the 
different dimensions that you 

816
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,480
know Bitcoin has. 
So you know it's it's I would 

817
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,200
say it's pretty daunting to get 
started but what would be your 

818
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,240
advice to? 
Start just, you know. 

819
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,480
Think about what are you, just 
what are you interested in Like,

820
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,440
I don't know, maybe it's like 
gardening and then you're 

821
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,960
interested in the kind of the 
regenerative agriculture topic 

822
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,720
of Bitcoin. 
There's so much in this space. 

823
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,800
So I would say just start. 
If you look if you have a meet 

824
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,160
up, I think the community of 
Bitcoin is it's really special. 

825
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,840
And I promise if you just go to 
a meet up people will be so glad

826
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:13,640
to meet and talk with you. 
And yeah, I mean I think really 

827
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,560
just start, you know listen to 
podcasts like yours. 

828
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,560
And then I'd also just to kind 
of give a framework you've 

829
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,720
probably seen kind of like the 
the graph where it's like I know

830
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,480
nothing on the like the left 
side of the graph and then the 

831
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,800
middle. 
You're like, I'm so smart. 

832
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,440
I know everything. 
And then and time is on like the

833
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,240
X axis, I think. 
And then on the right you're 

834
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:37,840
back to I know nothing. 
Most days. 

835
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,120
I feel like I know so little, 
but I take that as a gift 

836
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,600
privilege to just have something
that makes me curious and 

837
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,640
teaches me. 
So just, you know, people that 

838
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,520
have been thinking about this 
for, you know, four years, 10 

839
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,720
years sometimes also feel like 
they know nothing. 

840
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,360
So focus on what you're 
interested in. 

841
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,120
Go find, you know, local 
bitcoiners. 

842
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,480
And yeah, there's, you know, 
just just start. 

843
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,440
It's a good point about feeling.
I I know nothing. 

844
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,560
I had the same when I watched 
this clip I just mentioned from 

845
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,480
Sailor, you know, or that 
presentation. 

846
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,080
It's again, I thought, you know,
after 10 years, I know my stuff,

847
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,040
but you know, I have my mind 
blown every week. 

848
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,160
I think still, but that's also 
the fun part, right? 

849
00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:31,000
I think, you know, when you 
start, there's so much content. 

850
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,400
There's so many different voices
from different backgrounds 

851
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,760
talking also about all these 
different dimensions, right? 

852
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,160
So there is already so much for 
you to to explore. 

853
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:47,320
And yeah, once you realize that 
you know how we communicate 

854
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,640
value with each other is 
probably the roots of everything

855
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:57,680
you would want to fix in the 
world that you don't like, you 

856
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,280
know, of which you don't like 
how it is right now, then the 

857
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,920
rabbit hole is probably endless 
in that way, right. 

858
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,840
Like the how we communicate 
value with each other is where 

859
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,000
all the problems come from. 
And if we fix that, we really 

860
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:13,960
fix the world. 
Right. 

861
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,640
So I think yeah, it's a it's a 
it's. 

862
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,320
Well, perhaps it's less 
daunting. 

863
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,600
I think it's just more more 
daunting because there is so 

864
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,960
much content, right. 
But it's just like it doesn't 

865
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,240
maybe the the your answer is 
best. 

866
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:29,320
Like it just start and it 
doesn't matter where you start 

867
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,440
because you will find these 
other dimensions. 

868
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,040
Exactly. 
And I I also saw a bit black 

869
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,080
boom. 
A couple weeks ago Don BAE gave 

870
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:41,000
a good strategy that he does 
when he's beyond boarding new 

871
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,720
groups and they do an exercise 
like in warehouse or wherever 

872
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:52,160
and they put like $1.00 into 
Bitcoin $2.00 and just like low 

873
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,800
stakes exercises. 
And this is, you know, I always 

874
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,960
tell people you know my intent 
is not for you to go buy 

875
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,200
Bitcoin. 
My intent is just for you to 

876
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,920
think about this and so but they
just use like, OK, it's it's 

877
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,480
$2.00 like who cares if we mess 
this up? 

878
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,600
Who cares? 
It's like you know this is turns

879
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,280
wrong. 
It's just like just start small 

880
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,640
and you know it's also you don't
need to have some big 

881
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,200
expectation that bitcoin's going
to take over your life or that 

882
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:21,960
you're going to have to spend 
all your time doing this. 

883
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,160
Like it can just be money. 
It can just be a vessel for you 

884
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,480
to save your energy for 
generations and that's it. 

885
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,120
So it's just. 
Yeah, I agree. 

886
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,840
And probably once you start you 
will find the rabbit hole if 

887
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,240
you. 
Pay what's your What's your you?

888
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,400
Spend enough time and then you 
will think about it every day. 

889
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:47,200
But yeah, so do you see Bitcoin 
as like technological discovery 

890
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,720
or also as as kind of like a 
philosophy? 

891
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,880
Oh, does it ever have to choose 
one for this? 

892
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,000
No. 
Yeah. 

893
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:02,520
I mean, yeah, I think it's, I 
definitely think it was a 

894
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,600
discovery as opposed to an 
induction. 

895
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,680
And I guess, well, maybe I might
ask you more on the philosophy 

896
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,840
side of things like I love the 
philosophical take on it. 

897
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,080
I just read Resistance Money, 
you know, written by three 

898
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,440
philosophers. 
And so I guess you know what is 

899
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,160
how? 
How do you interpret Bitcoin 

900
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:29,240
being philosophy? 
For me, it kind of ties into 

901
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,960
the, the part that I just 
mentioned about, you know, the 

902
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,240
and this is also what I learned 
along the way. 

903
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:41,280
You know, the real free market 
is I find you or you find me And

904
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,200
we agree that we want to have an
exchange of value, whatever it 

905
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,320
is. 
And that should really be only 

906
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:55,360
up to us, the fact that it is 
corrupted in a way that we don't

907
00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:01,520
understand well 99.9% of the 
people don't understand that 

908
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:08,840
unconsciously influences our 
life in the way that we well 

909
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,880
spend our time, which is our 
most scarce asset, right. 

910
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:20,520
And I think that is limiting us 
in, in what what we can do, 

911
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:21,920
right. 
As I mentioned in the beginning,

912
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,520
like the the fact that we don't 
have the space again, that's 

913
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,960
time for me to figure out, you 
know what am I here to 

914
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,280
contribute. 
I find that a really big thing. 

915
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:39,240
And it's funny because I only 
got there because I created the 

916
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:42,320
time to think about, you know, 
why don't people have the time. 

917
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,840
So it's it's, it's, it's 
interesting. 

918
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,080
But I think once you can control
your time, like really control 

919
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:56,480
your time, that actually frees 
up your mind in a sense because 

920
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,560
there's so many things in your 
mind that are there not because 

921
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,320
you want to, but because there 
are third parties that create 

922
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,440
certain environments that force 
you to put those things in your 

923
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,800
head. 
Yeah. 

924
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,960
So I think you're not really 
free, although, you know, we 

925
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,560
live in free countries and you 
know, we have freedom of speech 

926
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,160
and blah blah, but you're not 
really free. 

927
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,440
There's still other people that 
influence your life and not in a

928
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,000
good way. 
And so, you know, once you 

929
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,640
understand that you can adopt A 
tool that can help you be more 

930
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,960
free, well then, yeah. 
For me that that is kind of like

931
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,560
the the philosophy part in that 
way that that you can actually 

932
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,720
get there. 
Like there's a real chance that 

933
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:44,120
you can get there instead of 
just hoping for it or, you know,

934
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,240
fantasizing about it in a way. 
Yeah, yeah. 

935
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,360
I would agree and I think it 
goes back to what you said in 

936
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,040
the beginning, that we tend to 
outsource our agency and 

937
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,120
responsibility and Bitcoin 
allows you to reclaim that. 

938
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,400
Yeah, so, well, maybe this is a 
good one because I wanted to ask

939
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,400
you what what is like an 
interesting Bitcoin tweet or 

940
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,560
article? 
You know, just something I want 

941
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,120
to introduce here in the 
podcast. 

942
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,520
Like, I want to just gather 
content and then share it, you 

943
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,240
know, with people listening. 
But like what's? 

944
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,160
What's an interesting tweet, 
article, podcast or video that 

945
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,960
you've come across that that you
love to share? 

946
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,240
Yes. 
So yeah, So I think, well, 

947
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,800
Natalie Smolinski, I just 
hugely, you know, look up to 

948
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,120
respect her. 
And she had a tweet the other 

949
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:35,320
day and it was basically just 
about the importance of 

950
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,240
maintaining integrity. 
Like the road ahead of us. 

951
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:41,560
It's going to be hard. 
It will. 

952
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,480
I might now be extrapolating, 
but it will be long. 

953
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,520
Like, it won't be easy, but we 
really have to make sure that we

954
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:52,320
are acting with integrity and 
staying true to sound values and

955
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,400
not getting caught up in ego or 
high time preference. 

956
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:03,880
And I just, yeah, it really 
resonated with me earlier. 

957
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,960
At the end of last year, I kind 
of saw something in my, my, you 

958
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:12,040
know, immediate world where 
there, you know, a lack of 

959
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,480
integrity or, you know, where 
identity and expediency really 

960
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,560
had a bad impact. 
And so I just read this and it 

961
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:24,400
just resonated. 
Yeah, so you send me the link, 

962
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:24,920
I'll look it. 
Up. 

963
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,760
Oh yeah, I can. 
I can if you have it. 

964
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,480
I'll read it. 
Yeah, I got it. 

965
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,720
So, she says. 
Things are dark and they're 

966
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,000
going to get much darker. 
Our moral and intellectual North

967
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,880
Star must remain functioning 
from principle instead of 

968
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,960
identity and expediency. 
Thinking and acting from 

969
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,200
principles. 
Revolutionary, it transforms the

970
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,480
world. 
Cheers to all fellow travellers 

971
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,120
on the road ahead. 
Yeah, I, I. 

972
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,200
For me it ties a bit into to 
what? 

973
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:58,200
Well what what I just said like 
the once you can and I don't 

974
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,000
know how it works but I think 
once you adopt Bitcoin you adopt

975
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,560
I think a certain trust in 
yourself that you. 

976
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,280
Well, yeah. 
That you can trust yourself and 

977
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,320
you know your own moral compass 
and that you are right to a 

978
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,120
degree. 
You know that that that you set 

979
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:21,840
out on a certain path and that 
that's OK and that you see what 

980
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:27,240
can be as a like what can be 
there as a reward of following 

981
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,760
that path, right. 
And then it doesn't really 

982
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,200
matter. 
You know what the obstacles are 

983
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,360
that you, that you come across 
because you know that you are on

984
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:40,600
your on your path in a sense. 
So I love that you shared that, 

985
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:41,560
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

986
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,600
And I think, you know, the 
future is just inherently 

987
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:49,400
uncertain. 
And I've realized that a tool or

988
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,080
a framework to think about, 
well, how do you handle 

989
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:56,000
uncertainty is just what type of
person do I want to be, What 

990
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,960
type of values do I want to 
embody? 

991
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,280
And when I learned about Bitcoin
and the the values we've spoken 

992
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:07,120
about, you know, it embodies the
values that I want to express on

993
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,160
my best day. 
And so, you know, that's a 

994
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,920
system that I want to put my 
energy into. 

995
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,320
And then I think, you know, as 
she kind of mentioned, this is 

996
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,800
my interpretation as well. 
But we can't define all the 

997
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:24,000
steps ahead of time of what will
get us to the right destination 

998
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,600
or how we should be moral. 
And that's different for 

999
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,360
everyone. 
But I think, you know, Bitcoin, 

1000
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,360
just how it was constructed, the
values it leaves us with as you 

1001
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,600
were speaking at, it helps us 
get to the right destination. 

1002
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,640
Like if we just kind of, you 
know, put our time into it and, 

1003
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,120
you know, try to act with the 
best and the most, you know, 

1004
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,560
integrity, then we'll we'll end 
up where we're supposed to be. 

1005
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,400
And so, yeah, I just, I read 
that and it really resonated. 

1006
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,600
It's funny because now that you 
say this, I think about the 

1007
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,840
proof of work due to work, and 
you can only do the work if you 

1008
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,160
really integrate where you're 
going, right? 

1009
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:08,480
Like if, if you anchor to that 
point on the horizon where 

1010
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,840
you're going, then you are also 
motivated to do the work. 

1011
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,760
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

1012
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:19,520
So to end our conversation, I 
will ask you what I ask everyone

1013
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,200
at the end and that's what is a 
core belief you will never let 

1014
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,320
go. 
Yeah, mine's really short. 

1015
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:32,760
Community is everything. 
Can you elaborate a bit? 

1016
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:37,160
Sure. 
I think it's just, you know, 

1017
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,440
your community, small or large. 
It's. 

1018
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,480
And I think, you know, I I've 
learned to a certain extent what

1019
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,280
it's like to lose community, 
gain community, you know, be a 

1020
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:53,720
good community member. 
I somehow I I went to, I think, 

1021
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,120
7 different schools in eight 
years. 

1022
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:00,720
And so I was moving all the time
and, you know, rebuilding 

1023
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,680
community and finding your 
people again. 

1024
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:08,080
And I also grew up and I never 
really had social media before 

1025
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,120
Twitter. 
And so I I, my mom taught me 

1026
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,880
this thing where you just reach 
out to two people you don't 

1027
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,600
normally speak to every week. 
And so as I'm going through 

1028
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:22,880
these seven different schools 8 
years like you, you meet a lot 

1029
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,960
of different people. 
And those people just, I think, 

1030
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,840
you know, the idea of dots 
again, just the people you're 

1031
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,680
around, the people who are there
for you, the people who you can 

1032
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,440
support and celebrate and cheer 
on, Like that's why we're here. 

1033
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:43,320
You know, that's just for me. 
What has felt centering or 

1034
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:47,160
grounding or just like 
especially with Bitcoin, like we

1035
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,800
are here to support a mission 
that protects human flourishing 

1036
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,280
and individual, you know, 
sovereignty for all 8 billion 

1037
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,280
people. 
Like it embodies community as 

1038
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,040
everything and supporting our 
community members. 

1039
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,720
Love that great ending. 
Thank you so much for this 

1040
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,680
wonderful conversation. 
As mentioned, I will link to, 

1041
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,360
you know, Generation Bitcoin 
students network, your Twitter 

1042
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,840
so people can follow your 
journey and hopefully also 

1043
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,040
contribute to what you're 
building. 

1044
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,440
So thanks so much. 
We'll be in touch and say hi to 

1045
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,880
your mom. 
Eva, thank you so much for 

1046
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,280
having. 
Me. 

1047
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,640
Cheers. 
I hope you enjoyed this episode.

1048
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,640
If you did, it would be amazing 
if you could rate, review and 

1049
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,240
subscribe on the podcast 
platform of your choice. 

1050
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,200
It will help us educate more 
millennials on the importance of

1051
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:38,200
Bitcoin. 
You can follow and connect with 

1052
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,800
me on Twitter. 
I'm Bram K That's at BR AM K, 

1053
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,200
and if you are or know someone 
who has an interesting 

1054
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,680
perspective on Bitcoin that's 
worth sharing, hit me up. 

1055
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,800
I read and reply to every single
message. 

1056
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,560
I appreciate your support and 
hope you'll be here for the next

1057
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,040
episode. 
Thanks for listening. 

1058
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:53,560
Bye.