1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:00,840 All right. Hey there. 2 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,160 This is from Constant. You're listening to Bitcoin for 3 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:04,960 Millennials. In this episode, I'm joined by 4 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,520 Joe Burnett. He's a researcher at Unchained, 5 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,560 a leading Bitcoin financial services company. 6 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,800 Joe's renowned for his insights into Bitcoin, superior monetary 7 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,360 properties and its role as a immutable, scarce asset that can 8 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,920 preserve wealth over the long term. 9 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,040 He's emerged as one of the most influential voices explaining 10 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,720 why Bitcoin represents 3rd I'm shift in money and savings. 11 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:25,720 So I'm super excited to talk with him today. 12 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,720 Welcome, Joe. Awesome. 13 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,080 Yeah. Glad to be here. 14 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:31,560 Thanks for having me. Yeah. 15 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,800 Thanks so much for coming on. I just told you like I love the 16 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,480 backdrop. That's something I'm, I'm going 17 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:39,520 to going to work on. Love the Hall of waste so and 18 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,600 love seeing you in person, man. As I said off mic, I I really 19 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,520 love the content that you're creating. 20 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,840 I think really nice breakdown. So for anyone who's listening 21 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,160 that doesn't follow you yet. I think I think they should. 22 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:55,560 Awesome. Appreciate it. 23 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,800 Yeah, I I also wanted to dive into your latest report, which 24 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,160 is called Your Wealth Is Melting. 25 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,640 Why Bitcoin is the Deep Freeze Your Portfolio Desperately 26 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,840 needs. But first I wanted to ask you 27 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,080 about your Bitcoin journey. How? 28 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,400 How did that go? Yeah, definitely. 29 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,200 I love hearing these stories, so it's always fun to talk about 30 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,560 your own as well. I discovered, or I remembered 31 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,080 initially discovering Bitcoin back when I was in college. 32 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:30,080 I was 2017 and I had grown up like interested in computers, 33 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,160 like I'd built apps and stuff. And then I'd also been 34 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,280 interested in finance, whether that was like basic investing in 35 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,920 like Coca-Cola and IBM. And I remember, you know, 36 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,920 learning the concept of investing and like kind of value 37 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,520 investing and investing in like blue chip US public equities and 38 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,440 knowing that OK, you save by buying Coca-Cola, it goes up, 39 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,560 you know, 2% a year and you earn a 3% dividend every year and 40 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,400 that's kind of how you save for the future. 41 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,880 And then I remember being in College in 2017, price of 42 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:09,199 Bitcoin was going from 1000 to 3000 to 6000 to 18,000. 43 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:15,240 And during that time I was like, what is this like digital money 44 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,440 currency that like is quadrupling and value super 45 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,440 fast? So. 46 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,800 I was like, yeah, exactly. No dividends. 47 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,360 So yeah, I initially like, completely was very skeptical of 48 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,000 Bitcoin at which I think many people are and for good reasons 49 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,440 and and yeah, so I the price just kept going up. 50 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:36,800 Eventually I was like, you know what? 51 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,560 I'll buy a little just to like try to learn what this new 52 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,240 technology is and, you know, get some skin in the game. 53 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,600 And then all throughout 2018, the bear market, I just dove 54 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,320 deep into Bitcoin trying to figure out what it is. 55 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,440 Eventually I became like pretty much a Bitcoin maximalist. 56 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,160 And I was like, OK, all of these other coins don't really make 57 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,920 sense. Bitcoin is the world's best 58 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:02,040 money. And then I started, started to 59 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,360 really try to figure out like why I could be wrong. 60 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,160 And the price kept going down and I couldn't find a good 61 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,720 reason as to why I was wrong. So I like ironically got 62 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,080 increasingly bullish as the price kept going down in 2018 63 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,680 and then 20/19/2018 I was like this makes perfect sense like 64 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,840 it's eventually going to go to you know a lot higher than where 65 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,200 it is today, whether that was 6003 thousand back then. 66 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,920 And yeah, and Bull Market came eventually, you know, after 67 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,880 2020, after 2020 basically. And that's been a pretty, pretty 68 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,840 wild journey. Nice. 69 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,920 What? What made it click for you then? 70 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,560 Like you said, you were studying, you know and of course 71 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,200 there's lots of dimensions to Bitcoin like and and when you 72 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,640 came from value investing and the dividends, etcetera. 73 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,400 What? What was it that that made it 74 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,360 click for you? Yeah. 75 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,040 So like you said, like the the no cash flow and the no 76 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,680 dividends part really held me back for a significant amount of 77 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,720 time because I was like this thing is just worthless. 78 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,960 It's it's a digital rock that's just worth what someone else 79 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,320 will pay for it. And then the the the light bulb 80 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,240 moment for for me was like, wait, that's that's just what 81 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,640 money is, right? Like everyone converges on one 82 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,600 best monetary tool with certain monetary properties. 83 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,320 And Bitcoin just now, after the discovery of Bitcoin, happens to 84 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,400 have the best properties for for being a good money. 85 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,800 It's immutably, perfectly scarce. 86 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,800 It's portable, it's terrible. It's divisible. 87 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,760 It's fungible. And once I figured out that, I 88 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,600 was like, wait a second. If this is just money, and this 89 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:42,000 is the best money and like, no one has quite grasped what it is 90 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,360 quite yet, which because because we've never seen the 91 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,240 monetization of a new form of money, then this is probably 92 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,160 right. And then like I said, like I 93 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,960 tried to figure out and and listen to the people that were 94 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,000 against Bitcoin or like, you know, were were quote, UN quote, 95 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,360 bearish on Bitcoin. And their arguments to me at the 96 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,160 time just seemed like they hadn't really done their 97 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,120 research. Like they had looked into 98 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,040 Bitcoin for, you know, a couple hours at most and came to the 99 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,520 conclusion that it was, you know, a pet rock that didn't 100 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,000 make any sense. So once I found out that, like, 101 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,360 OK, this is actually probably the best money, the smartest 102 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,240 people in the world really don't even think about what money is. 103 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,440 They haven't thought about it for years, if they've ever 104 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,880 really thought about it. And so it makes sense that there 105 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,920 might be a chance that Bitcoin is actually the best money, and 106 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,280 a lot of people are overlooking it. 107 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,240 Hey there, I want to ask you for a quick favor. 108 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,560 I noticed something interesting. 75% of my viewers aren't 109 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,240 subscribed yet. Subscribing helps me grow this 110 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,960 channel, ensuring more great content each week. 111 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:43,920 So if you're enjoying our conversations on Bitcoin for 112 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,280 millennials, please consider hitting the subscribe button on 113 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,640 YouTube or the follow button on your favorite podcasting app. 114 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,880 I'm super grateful for everyone who already joined and shared 115 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,840 their thoughts. Your feedback really keeps me 116 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:58,160 going and I want to ask you to continue doing that. 117 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,240 I tried to respond to all the comments and also the emails 118 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,880 that I get and DMS on Twitter etcetera. 119 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,960 So don't stop doing that. I'll keep going. 120 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,960 Now let's get back to the conversation. 121 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,880 Yeah. It's funny that once you do dive 122 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,720 into it and and you understand you know, the essential 123 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,120 elements, if you then again talk with people and ask their 124 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,720 opinion, you can quickly dissect if what they say is actually 125 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,520 based on on the work they they put in. 126 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,400 Right. Like, I don't know how you see 127 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,840 that now but I think a lot of people that go against Bitcoin, 128 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,640 I, you know, Saylor says there are no informed critiques but it 129 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,080 really seems like that you know and of course it sounds you know 130 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,720 how do you say kind of like looking down when you say that, 131 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:45,920 right. Like there are no informed 132 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,440 critiques but I'm still looking for it. 133 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,000 If even the Zero Hedge debate, you know, with Schiff and and 134 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,720 Roubini, I just hear emotional stuttering basically, right? 135 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,280 Like I'd love to hear rational arguments against my own 136 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,680 rational arguments, but they're they're not really there. 137 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,480 But but I think, and you touched upon one thing, I think like you 138 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,280 were looking at it from an investment perspective, right. 139 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,880 While it's a savings vehicle, I think you would agree. 140 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,120 And a lot of people also look at it as like a technological 141 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,720 innovation while and and therefore they also look at 142 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,440 crypto, right, some faster transactions etcetera. 143 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,320 But as you said it's it's a new asset and it's digital scarcity 144 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,040 that you can only invent once, right. 145 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,520 So, so both of these kind of like angles as to how people 146 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,360 look at it, it's just not the correct angle, but it takes time 147 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,840 studying right to figure that out. 148 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,120 Would you agree? Yeah, 100%. 149 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,440 And I think one another thing that was really telling to me 150 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,360 over the years was like seeing the cycles, like looking at 151 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Bitcoin on a log chart versus like a linear chart and seeing 152 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,720 like, wait, this thing keeps making, like, higher highs, 153 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,800 higher lows. It's not dying. 154 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,240 Like, people look at the linear chart and see, oh, it's a 155 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,440 bubble. Oh, it's a bubble. 156 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,080 Oh, it's a bubble. And then they like can't zoom 157 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,600 out and look at, oh wait, it's, you know, this thing is actually 158 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,640 growing, you know, rapidly, really rapidly and and in spirit 159 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,920 and in different periods of of adoption, bursts of adoption. 160 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,160 So it's it's quite interesting. Yeah, what I to to to add to 161 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,600 that, I heard Jack Baller say we've been in a 15 year bull 162 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,080 market. I thought if I I like that that 163 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,080 point because we are discovering what this is, right. 164 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,440 And actually and he said the same thing like there's higher 165 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,000 higher highs, higher lows, right. 166 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,000 It's not that we go massively, massively under the lowest 167 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,560 basically it's it's literally monetization. 168 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:55,400 But again as you said also like we haven't lived through 169 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,320 something like that. So I think that's also why it's 170 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:02,440 hard for people to kind of zoom out even more like outside also 171 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,040 the area of expertise, right, to actually figure out what is what 172 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,400 is going on here. Yeah, totally. 173 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,320 And so how do you experience talking to your peers? 174 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,640 You're obviously a bit younger. I think you're part of Gen. 175 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,920 Z, right? How do they think about money? 176 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,720 Are they researching money? Like what? 177 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,960 What? What is your experience? 178 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,560 Yeah, it's such a funny, interesting question. 179 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:27,200 Thinking about talking about Bitcoin. 180 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,600 My friends, I feel like generally speaking, Most of my 181 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 friends, most of my close friends like know I'm in Bitcoin 182 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,600 and I I tried not to talk about it 24/7, 365. 183 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,800 This just because if they want to talk about it, they'll ask me 184 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,400 a question and if they don't want to talk about it, I'm just 185 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:44,760 going to talk about something else with them. 186 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,480 How they think of money in Bitcoin, I think it depends. 187 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,320 Like I have friends that I went to college with, studied 188 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,800 finance, like worked on Wall Street or still working on Wall 189 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,800 Street. Most of them or pretty much all 190 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,680 of them own a little bit of Bitcoin. 191 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,880 They're not like full-fledged Bitcoin Maxis and have you know 192 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,120 a a massive portion of their personal wealth in Bitcoin. 193 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,600 But like some of them have like set up hardware wallets. 194 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,480 Like they have a seed phrase like they'd know how to you 195 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,000 know, buy and and store Bitcoin in self custody which is pretty 196 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,840 cool. But they're still like, at the 197 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,960 end of the day, a little bit skeptical and and still fall to 198 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,520 the, you know, they think they should have the, you know, 199 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,720 beautiful, diversified portfolio that a lot of people in 200 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,000 traditional finance think is rational. 201 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,720 So yeah, a lot of people I think like, own a little bit of 202 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:35,760 Bitcoin. A lot of my friends that I 203 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:41,440 talked to, I think some also kind of are susceptible to like, 204 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,040 the degeneracy of, like gambling. 205 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,560 They they see that housing prices are so expensive relative 206 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:51,600 to, you know, their income, like someone that graduated college, 207 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,680 you know, 2-3, four years ago. And they're like, wow, like me 208 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:59,240 working a normal job, I'll never be able to afford a house. 209 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,720 So I'm going to speculate on Dogecoin and just average into 210 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,880 my 401K and then rent forever. And hopefully one day I'll be 211 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,880 able to buy like a tiny little house and have maybe have a 212 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,680 family if I could potentially afford that. 213 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,960 So I think there's a lot of that as well where it's like people 214 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,000 see the price of Bitcoin is very high and they're like, there's 215 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,520 no point in saving for the future because I don't make 216 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,080 enough money to really save much. 217 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,760 So they're like, I'm just going to gamble and speculate, which 218 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,120 is unfortunate, but I I've seen that you know with a few people 219 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,560 and and yeah, so it's it's kind of a a mixed bag I would say 220 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,360 some are embracing Bitcoin at least a little bit and then some 221 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,080 are falling into like the degeneracy of of speculation. 222 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,480 Yeah, I asked a similar question to Ella Huff. 223 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,840 But like you know as as a mid, I'm a mid millennial I think. 224 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,920 But when I look at the AT at Gen. 225 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,000 ZI kind of see like like this barbell, there's not a lot in 226 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:59,200 the middle, but it's like it's either a nihilistic world view 227 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,760 gambling, you know, there's no future environment is going 228 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,480 down, etcetera. And there's like very 229 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:14,200 optimistic, active people that you know, take use the power of 230 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,120 the Internet to educate themselves just be like I'm just 231 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,560 going to do this myself, I can do this myself, right. 232 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:23,520 We're also actively sharing their knowledge, right. 233 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,840 I think you and Ella are are great examples of that. 234 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,280 Do you think that reflects also your generation like what you 235 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,840 just mentioned? If, if kind of saddens me, if I 236 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,040 think like if you're like young, your early 20s and you think 237 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,440 about there's no future for me. Yeah, it does sadden me that 238 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,240 some people do fall for like the speculation and degeneracy and 239 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,280 and some people have a pretty negative outlook on their you 240 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,560 know personal future just with the way like you know housing 241 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,280 prices are so expensive and and etcetera, etcetera. 242 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,840 I think personally, like, I don't necessarily feel that way 243 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,200 because I think Bitcoin is kind of like an individual choice 244 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,720 rather than a collective choice to where like you can adopt 245 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,280 Bitcoin today and you as an individual can adopt A Bitcoin 246 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,400 standard and begin using Bitcoin as your unit of account and your 247 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,040 opportunity cost. And recognizing that if you 248 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,880 personally hold Bitcoin then you'll probably end up doing 249 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,560 pretty well. And I think it's important that 250 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,440 people recognize that they don't have to convince the world 251 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,200 necessarily to buy Bitcoin or they just have to start buying 252 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,080 Bitcoin themselves and that's how they can slowly start 253 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,800 changing the world. But yeah, I think like overall 254 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,800 like the the TikTok brain or Goldfish brain of, you know, 255 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,840 everyone today, especially Gen. Z is kind of a problem as well. 256 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,280 I feel like a lot of people aren't capable of focusing on 257 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,800 anything really for a long period of time, which is kind of 258 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,200 concerning. But I do. 259 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,040 I I'm definitely generally an optimistic person, like when it 260 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,280 comes to the future of humanity. And I think, you know, if there 261 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,040 are hard times, we'll figure it out and we'll figure out how to 262 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,720 get through it. And on the other side will will 263 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,520 be better. Like I think technology is 264 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,080 getting exponentially better and better. 265 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,080 I think the world is getting exponentially more and more 266 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,800 productive and more wealthy. And I think over time, over the 267 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,160 long run, that's going to continue to be the case. 268 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,480 Yeah, yeah. I would agree. 269 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,720 I think Bitcoin also helps with that, right, to kind of 270 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,160 substantiate that that positive outlook like you have a tool to 271 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,160 to also get there in the future and and and to create the time 272 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:42,080 to to build those things. So yeah your report was called 273 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,840 your wealth is melting. What is the core? 274 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:52,440 What is the core premise of it? Yeah, so I think a lot of people 275 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,720 think about Bitcoin, especially the people outside of Bitcoin. 276 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,360 They think about Bitcoin as this lottery ticket that may be worth 277 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,920 millions of dollars one day or it's going to 0. 278 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,960 Like they see it as as this crazy speculative bet that may 279 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,520 pay off, but probably it's not worth taking the risk. 280 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Or if they take the risk, they, you know, put a small amount of 281 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,240 their wealth into Bitcoin and they don't even really think 282 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,040 about it as their wealth. They think about it as a as a 283 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,960 lottery ticket to gamble. I think they're true about the 284 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,360 idea of a Bitcoin being worth millions of dollars one day. 285 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,920 I think they like vastly, you know, overestimate that the the 286 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,400 the long term downside risk and holding spot Bitcoin for sure. 287 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,280 And I don't think this lottery ticket type view of Bitcoin is 288 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:43,320 like the best way to analyze and think about Bitcoin from your 289 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,320 your personal perspective, and the way I think is that you 290 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,840 should think about Bitcoin is that it's just money. 291 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,480 Like I said, it's the best form of money. 292 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,920 It's immediately scarce, It's portable, it's durable, 293 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,040 divisible, fungible, It has all these unique properties. 294 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,040 And with money, what do you do with it? 295 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,840 Well, you save it and you trade it. 296 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,720 That's the pretty much all you do it and you use it as a unit 297 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,600 of account. So you use, you use money to 298 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,560 measure if you know you're making profits, if your 299 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,360 investments are going up or they're going down, or if you 300 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,000 should be doing something else with your money, or if you 301 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,760 should actually just be holding the money. 302 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,920 And so the the whole idea behind the report your wealth is 303 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,960 melting is to actually be using Bitcoin as money. 304 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,600 So it's measuring various different traditional asset 305 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,200 classes that people use today to store their wealth, visualizing 306 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,000 that hey, these asset classes are actually crashing in Bitcoin 307 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,000 terms, one, due to the active monetization of Bitcoin going 308 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,280 from zero to trillion dollar asset today. 309 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,000 But two, just because I think Bitcoin is actually the best way 310 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,520 to save for the future if you have a very long time horizon. 311 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,760 Because all of these other traditional asset classes that 312 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,600 we have today, you can create more of the asset, whether 313 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,120 that's like gold or real estate, or you can devalue the asset, 314 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,839 whether that's like NVIDIA stock or Apple or bonds or or or 315 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:12,000 dollars as well. So it's really pitching Bitcoin 316 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,880 as like the best money, and then comparing Bitcoin to how people 317 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,480 traditionally save for the future today. 318 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,520 Yeah, and you touched upon the properties of money, right? 319 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:29,080 Saving, exchanging and using it as a unit of account. 320 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,400 People who are learning about Bitcoin could say, like, OK, 321 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,600 well, I can measure my wealth in dollars, I can buy a bread with 322 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:43,080 dollars, I can save in it, You know, I can earn more numbers in 323 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,680 my checking or my, you know, my balance. 324 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,960 Would you say that that savings part is probably where the main 325 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,600 argument lies as to, you know, why Bitcoin is all right? 326 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,120 Well, why the the monetary properties of Bitcoin are 327 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,560 superior, right? Can you elaborate a bit on that? 328 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,560 Yeah, for sure. I think saving Bitcoin today is 329 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,120 very clearly like the core value proposition of Bitcoin. 330 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,520 It's money that literally cannot be debased. 331 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,760 People, you know, look at dollars and they see, you know, 332 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,720 they, they know dollars are designed to debase. 333 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,720 Like you ask any wealthy person today how they think about 334 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,120 wealth, They say, Oh well, you should buy real estate. 335 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,760 You should buy the S&P 500. You should even consider 336 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,000 borrowing money and buying real estate and buying the S&P 500, 337 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,120 like that's how you store your wealth. 338 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,800 Like wealthy people actually have negative dollars because 339 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,680 they know the dollar is not good savings technology and it's 340 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,440 literally designed to be debased. 341 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,520 So yeah, I think Bitcoin is the best money because it's simply 342 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,320 unprintable money, whereas all these other forms of monies are 343 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,400 printable or mineable to Infinity. 344 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,840 And I think that's a complete game changer. 345 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,560 And I think over time, more people will simply recognize 346 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,480 that fact that more people will want to hold unprintable money 347 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:10,560 over principal money. Just when you were talking, I 348 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,440 was thinking about now I actually that now that you said 349 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,240 you know rich people actually don't have a lot of dollars, 350 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:17,640 right. They have a lot of assets. 351 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,560 Like, I know, I know people buy assets, right, To store wealth. 352 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,960 Like I know this concept. But now that you said it, it's 353 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,720 funny. I visualized like, let's say you 354 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,560 have a stack of dollars and you know that that that thing is 355 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,400 programmatically melting away, right? 356 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,000 The value of that. So it's basically the same as to 357 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000 why we buy Bitcoin, right? We transform the dollars into 358 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,200 Bitcoin. But it's also what they're doing 359 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,360 with real estate. It's funny, I just realized that 360 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,640 they're just turning it into bricks and a roof and and some 361 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,960 lands, right? Just because the other thing 362 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:57,240 that that should be their savings vehicle, it's just not 363 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,680 suited for savings, right? But I think that's a nice 364 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,840 explainer. Eventually like OK, people are 365 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,280 saving in real estate. That is why real estate goes up. 366 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,040 It's not that the people buying real estate are buying it for 367 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,040 the purpose of real estate which is living in it. 368 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,040 Yep, 100%. And that's a that's a good one. 369 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,440 So I I read in your report, I love the, you know, in general I 370 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,480 think the explanation of money, how did money start, right, with 371 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,440 partnering just in general, like also in in in field standard, 372 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,440 Bitcoin standard, etcetera. But you touch upon why Bitcoin 373 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,960 solves what is called the coincidence of one's problem, 374 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,240 right? Like I have a bread and you have 375 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,080 a cow, but you don't want bread if when I want the cow or the 376 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,640 other way around, or we want to trade something different, that 377 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,880 is not bread or cows, right? That's that's what money 378 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,200 eventually solved because it became an abstract right for for 379 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,320 value that we could exchange. But you argue that Bitcoin 380 00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:00,080 solves it better than traditional Fiat money, and I 381 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,120 wanted to ask you why. Yeah, 100%. 382 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:04,640 I mean it. I think it comes back to 383 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,760 Bitcoin's superior monetary properties. 384 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,840 And I think one thing when it comes to the the problem of the 385 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,160 double coincidence of once is a lot of people don't necessarily 386 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:20,400 or intuitively know that this whole problem is solved by us 387 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,160 converging on one best money. And so if you're out there 388 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,120 holding the second best money or the third best money, like 389 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,000 Michael Saylor says, there is no second best. 390 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,080 He's very accurate when it comes to money, right? 391 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,840 If you're holding the second best money and everyone and a 392 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,600 bunch of other people are happened to be holding the 393 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,800 second best money as well. And money is only useful for 394 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,840 savings and trade like there's no other. 395 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,880 It's not like oxygen or food where like you can use it. 396 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,440 Then you want to make sure that you quote, UN quote, cash out of 397 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,160 the second best money or the third best money before other 398 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,560 people holding, still, holding the second best money, or still 399 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,520 even buying, you know, the second best money. 400 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,440 Realize that, wait, they should cash out and buy the first best 401 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,640 money as well. And it kind of goes back to what 402 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,640 you talked about. The double coincidence of once 403 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,680 is we're all trying to converge on one best tool for savings and 404 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,000 trade. And so it's like if you pick the 405 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,360 worst one or the second best one, then other people are going 406 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,560 to sell the second best one and go back and buy the first one. 407 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,160 Because we all want to use one common tool for for savings and 408 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,800 trade. And so, yeah, I think that 409 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,480 Bitcoin is the best tool because it has the best monetary 410 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,640 properties. And you can look at the the 411 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,240 monetary properties of Bitcoin, compare it to dollars, gold ray 412 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,400 stones, salt, glass, beads, T-bills, whatever you want to 413 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,840 compare it to. And you can recognize that 414 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,280 Bitcoin literally is objectively the best money at if you're 415 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,840 looking at those characteristics. 416 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,120 And it's kind of hard to to debate that. 417 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,760 I think this is a really good point. 418 00:22:53,800 --> 00:23:00,040 If you say like there is a second best money, well maybe 419 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,200 you can only realize that after you answer the question or 420 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,840 understand the answer to the question What is money? 421 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,080 Or at least have some picture, because there's lots of 422 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,920 different answers, right. But the fact that there are 423 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:17,120 people that are already selling the second best money for a 424 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:22,880 better money, that should be the main signal, the fact that it's 425 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,360 happening, that people are moving, right. 426 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,840 So when I still find it ridiculous, right, like few 427 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,680 weeks ago we went from 74 to 58 and people are like oh it's all 428 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:40,280 over, etcetera, but it's a magic Internet coin worth $58,000, 429 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,560 right. And we're at 66 again today. 430 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,880 Just you cannot deny the fact that there are some people who 431 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,240 think more of this than a get rich quick thing or you know, 432 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,840 however a nihilistic mind would view or characterize Bitcoin. 433 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:01,840 And so I think that's a great that that would be a great 434 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,760 argument, right. If you for explaining Bitcoin, 435 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,200 just say like people buying Bitcoin or selling the the 436 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,760 second best money, your money, the money that you have in your 437 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,880 wallet, right. They're selling it for the 438 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,200 better money and the price is not the price of an asset. 439 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,640 It's an exchange rate. So you need 66,000 units of the 440 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,000 money you have in your wallet for one of these, right? 441 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,480 Yeah I love that. I'm I'm also through the podcast 442 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,280 like I'm looking for simpler ways to make points you know 443 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,240 because obviously this is very complex and and if you just 444 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,960 start talking about you know this is what money is and people 445 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,880 are printing it and your time, energy, space-time love you know 446 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:46,200 like you can lose people pretty quickly I think. 447 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,280 But there's these little examples Like I also used the 448 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,480 one about, you know, would you agree that progressing 449 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,600 technology lowers prices of things, right. 450 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,200 Like when I was in high school, I bought this crazy graphic, 451 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,160 like scientific calculator, right, for €200 dollars. 452 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,880 Now it's in my phone for free, You know, does that make sense 453 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,000 to you? And then people say, yes. 454 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,160 And then I say, OK, well, and then I start talking about, you 455 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,880 know, do you think the bread is different than than the bread in 456 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,920 the 1950s? No, no, not really, I said. 457 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,280 But the bread in the 1950s was 1/4 and you pay €4.00. 458 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,800 Now, like, what do you. Does that make sense to you? 459 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,000 Right. Shouldn't we be able to make 460 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,800 better bread or shouldn't you have like, I don't know, free 461 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,600 bread or like a pill you put in water and then a bread pops out 462 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,480 or something like that, right. And so I try to make like these 463 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,840 kinds of more simpler arguments to just get get people thinking, 464 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,120 but I love what what you're saying, right. 465 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:48,040 Like and then translating that into, for example, it's not a 466 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,680 price, it's an exchange rate, right. 467 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,120 And then, you know, you could get people to, oh, it's a 468 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:56,200 competing currency and it's not a currency in one other country. 469 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,440 No, it's a worldwide currency that anyone could use and even 470 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,120 you, right. So yeah, I love figuring out 471 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,840 like these little little pointers that that are like 472 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,280 easily, easily shareable. There's another thing you talk 473 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,440 about, which you call the innovation trap. 474 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,400 Can you share a bit about that and how it affects the ability 475 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,120 of traditional assets? Right. 476 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:25,080 So let's say real estate for example, to preserve wealth over 477 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,200 time, so people try to save in it, right? 478 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,520 That's why the price is going up. 479 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,920 But why aren't they actually set assets A? 480 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,920 100%, So, yeah, the general idea is that anything that you're 481 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,440 saving in today outside of Bitcoin can be debased by 482 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,760 additional production of the asset or devalued by competition 483 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,440 coming in creating better technology. 484 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,160 So NVIDIA is a kind of a good example of like the Innovation 485 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,040 trap in particular where it's like a lot of people are 486 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,720 investing in, you know, quote UN quote the Magnificent 7 or 487 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,440 Magnificent A whatever the number is of big tech and the 488 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,200 United States. And they think that they're 489 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,960 investing in this cutting edge innovation and that's the 490 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,560 perfect way to grow wealth forever. 491 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,400 And you should always be holding, you know, Apple, 492 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,440 Amazon, Google, Facebook or Meta now and and and you know 493 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,840 whatever whoever else in NVIDIA and that's how you should save 494 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,000 permanently for the future. But the idea is like there's 495 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,080 more innovation coming down the line and it's not necessarily 496 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,560 coming from, you know, those companies per SE. 497 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,640 It could be coming from entrepreneurs tinkering and and 498 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,160 building new things or other big, big and small companies as 499 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560 well. So like right now NVIDIA for 500 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,440 example, it's like they're manufacturing GPUs at say $500 501 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,720 and then selling those GPUs for $30,000. 502 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:59,160 So right now their margins are, you know, massive and they're 503 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,360 highly innovative, like they're building cutting edge computer 504 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:05,360 chips. Yet, you know, if markets are 505 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,800 efficient and you know Adam Smith's invisible hand of other 506 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,880 people going out there acting in their own self-interest to build 507 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,000 a better, faster, cheaper GPU. If that's the case, which is 508 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,640 like the case if you, you know, buy into the idea of free 509 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,000 markets and capitalism, then there's going to be other 510 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,800 competitors and other entrepreneurs that come in, 511 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:30,800 innovate and take wealth away or take market share away from 512 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,960 NVIDIA and Apple and Google and all these other companies. 513 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,920 And so it's like by investing in innovation, you're you're not 514 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,560 necessarily doing what you're trying to do. 515 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,520 You're not, you're not saving wealth in the best way possible 516 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,800 because you're effectively, you know, pouring a bunch of wealth 517 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,880 into NVIDIA, which creates like a bounty. 518 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,440 Say, if there's $2 trillion worth of wealth in NVIDIA, it 519 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,560 creates A bounty for entrepreneurs and tinkerers and 520 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,920 other businesses to try to attack NVIDIA, build a better 521 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,760 GPU, and take some of their market share. 522 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,280 So that's the the key idea around the innovation trap is 523 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,920 just if you're investing in innovation and there's a lot of 524 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,560 wealth in innovative companies, then people are going to be 525 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,920 attacking those innovative companies and trying to take 526 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,760 some of their their future cash flows. 527 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,440 Yeah, I absolutely love that, right. 528 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,200 Like basically you're validating the technology that they're 529 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,600 spearheading, thus opening up a new market, right. 530 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,160 I I feel it's a bit similar as to, you know, if we start 531 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,760 digging for more gold and and we fund gold expeditions and we 532 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,240 find more gold, you know, it's it's it kind of devalues what 533 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,680 was already there because other people can get to it as well, 534 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,520 right. I think it's a, it's a, it's a 535 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,760 it's a similar thing there. But also as you said like why 536 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,400 are all these prices going up? It's, it's it's the same as with 537 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,040 real estate, right. There are already people 538 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,280 knowingly and unknowingly, right, like people who just 539 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:05,120 invest in no S&P 500 ETF that is held up by these seven or eight 540 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,600 companies, right. I think it's seven. 541 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,120 Yeah. People are actually already 542 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,680 searching for that better way to store their wealth, right. 543 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,560 I think real estate you know that starts from a certain 544 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,080 bracket of course you know for for dollars that you already 545 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,800 have. But stock market is probably you 546 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,280 know usable by anyone whatever your level of of wealth is that 547 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,280 you that you start with. Again I think this is a a simple 548 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,200 way of thinking about it but also to explain it like why are 549 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,440 you in the stock market? Yeah. 550 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,840 OK. I want to make a return. 551 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:38,880 Yeah. But why do you want to make a 552 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,920 return? Yeah, because I want more money. 553 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,080 Well, why do you need more money? 554 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,280 Well, I don't know. Other people are doing it, you 555 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,080 know, why do you think other people are doing it? 556 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,520 Right. So I think like that's how you 557 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,800 can kind of like peel the layers of of of the onion back a little 558 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600 because I think the step to Bitcoin we should, we should 559 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,760 make that like as little as possible just to study, right. 560 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,920 Again, I think you said that also before we cannot really, 561 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,160 you know tell people to buy Bitcoin or you know orange spill 562 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,280 other people like you orange spill yourself. 563 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,000 But you need to study and and especially if you think you're 564 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,840 going to be in the stock market and do what everyone is doing, 565 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,640 then yeah, then then you're not even thinking about what you're 566 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240 kind of like consciously making a decision but but you're not 567 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,800 really studying, you know? And you're also by the way 568 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,200 playing a game against professional people that have 569 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,360 like high speed satellites to be quicker and trade with all these 570 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:34,960 things. And then you're on your little 571 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,360 MacBook, you know trying to play the same game. 572 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,200 But yeah, I I I think that's a great explanation And again 573 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,480 something that like makes it makes it the bit simpler to to 574 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,200 approach or maybe meet people more where where they are at 575 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,520 right instead of starting about Bitcoin immediate immediately. 576 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,720 Yeah. Yeah. 577 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,600 You also talk about creative destruction. 578 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,080 I love. I love that too. 579 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,560 Can you can you share a bit about that? 580 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,880 Yeah, absolutely. Very similar to kind of what I 581 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,960 said with NVIDIA, it's like creative destruction is a very 582 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,880 natural process that occurs when markets are free, open, global 583 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,680 and permissionless, right? There's always going to be 584 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,120 entrepreneurs out there tinkering, building new stuff 585 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,520 and they're competing and building better products than 586 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,360 the existing incumbents. And if you're out there holding 587 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,600 the S&P 500, which is all of the incumbent companies, then you're 588 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,640 effectively betting against creative destruction from 589 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,760 occurring. Like you're hoping that those 590 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,720 companies have their walled gardens and their perfect 591 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,840 products and services that won't be disrupted. 592 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,480 There won't be competition that comes in and tries to take their 593 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,560 future cash flows. And there's not going to be a 594 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,600 better product or service that someone else creates that goes 595 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,360 out and and take some of their share. 596 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,480 Now, you know, you would hope that you would be doing like BC 597 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,760 Investments. Like if you're going full into 598 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,640 the Fiat game, you would think like, OK then I want to buy the 599 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,000 S&P 500, but then I also want to now buy like all of the VC 600 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,720 funds. But then it's like at the end of 601 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,920 the day, you're spreading your money everywhere, and what 602 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,800 you're really trying to do is to just actually have a good money 603 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680 Like you're not trying to, you know, you don't actually want to 604 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,360 invest in every. Single thing you. 605 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,320 Just want you just want good money. 606 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,800 It's it's it's interesting just how people view this because 607 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:33,920 like I I think I was kind of lucky because I never got the 608 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,400 stock market. Like I just never got it. 609 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,760 I I I don't know, I was never attracted to it. 610 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,920 Like now I own two Bitcoin miner stocks, but that's basically it. 611 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,720 And I think a few years ago I I did have like some more stocks. 612 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,720 I actually inherited stocks from like a distant on and I was like 613 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,680 19 and I sold them all which was dumb eventually, but that's not 614 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,920 really the point it's more like eventually in a figure figure 615 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,120 was thinking about it after I started working etcetera like OK 616 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,239 how do you do this just the stock market it just it it felt 617 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,280 so far away from me, right? Like as you said, like you you 618 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,400 put this in an index and then you, I think you said it well, 619 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,960 like you actually would assume that everyone has, you know, 620 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,639 their shit figured out. It's working properly. 621 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,639 There's no competition. It's always going up, right. 622 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,440 It's it's a false premise, so to say. 623 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,199 But it felt like, I don't know, it felt far away from me. 624 00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:39,440 So I never really got into that. I I mean luckily I found Bitcoin 625 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,120 at, I don't know, four years after I started working. 626 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,320 So that that was nice. But I I think that's also why I 627 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:54,520 didn't really dive into it and I think if I did like lots of 628 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,320 people do you know in in both our generations I think or at 629 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,160 least, you know there's lots of content about it and people want 630 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:06,120 to do it and you know or or the foreign exchange forex trading 631 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,560 and all that stuff like that. Right. 632 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,960 I lost the thread in my head. But I I, I think for me I was 633 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,320 lucky that I just wasn't in that because I think Oh yeah that 634 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,880 that was my point. Like if you do go in that it, I 635 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,520 think it's really distracting of all the other stuff you could do 636 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,320 including building a business for example instead of trying to 637 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,520 play the stock market. Right. 638 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,280 Like actually just taking more control yourself building value 639 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,120 etcetera. But of course then like now we 640 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,560 now we have Bitcoin. But yeah I think I was I was 641 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,360 lucky with that with that but but I think it's also just part 642 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,240 currently of people's distraction from the more 643 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,680 substantial questions that are more about like what is money, 644 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,640 what is wealth, what is ownership sovereignty all all 645 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:57,320 these things. Right. 646 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,880 Because again stocks are also just an IOU on on shares that 647 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,960 you will never own right. So it's it's a similar it's a 648 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,920 similar thing but yeah so creative destruction really is 649 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:19,120 right the the necessary destruction of current company 650 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,920 services products, industries, right To eventually in a broader 651 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,400 sense, you know help us forward and it's basically an invitation 652 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,160 right, like OK, come come do it better. 653 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,360 And I think a nice nice example of it is for example BlackBerry, 654 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:40,200 you know that was all over the place with with you know the the 655 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,160 business services and everyone had you know their e-mail 656 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,160 etcetera. And now it's just totally, 657 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,920 totally gone because something better came along and they 658 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,160 didn't pay attention to to the thing that came along, right. 659 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,760 And and so eventually they die, which is a good thing for me. 660 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,760 As to my understanding of capitalism, I would say that is 661 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,520 pure capitalism, right? You do something, you win for a 662 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,760 while. If you don't adapt and then you 663 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,840 die like that is that is the free market. 664 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,000 Yeah. So that's that's I love that you 665 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,600 that you touched on that. You also talk about the impact 666 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,680 of these technological advancements and you have 667 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,080 examples of farming data storage. 668 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,760 I saw strawberries somewhere somewhere. 669 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,560 I think you you made a video about strawberries I think. 670 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,240 Could you share one of these examples and to use it as as 671 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:38,520 like an illustration for that? Yeah, absolutely. 672 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,560 So, yeah, there's a section in the report called the 673 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,320 acceleration of production where I'm going through things like 674 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,000 farming, data storage, oil, lumber and telecommunications as 675 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,440 well and showing that we're actually becoming incredibly 676 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,440 productive at producing all of these basic consumer goods. 677 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,360 Farming for example, like in 1931 American farmer could feed 678 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,760 four people. By the 20 tens, one farmer was 679 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,680 feeding 155 people. And it comes back to kind of 680 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,840 what you were mentioning before with like the price of bread. 681 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,440 Well, like the price of bread is getting more expensive, 682 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,200 especially more expensive since 1930. 683 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,320 Yet you know one farmer is now, you know, 50X more productive 684 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,800 than he was in in 1930. Like how is it possible that 685 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,200 bread is getting more expensive? So, like, I think so people 686 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,200 recognize that bread is getting more expensive, but they also 687 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,520 recognize that like we're getting more efficient at 688 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,320 producing these things like we have to be like we have the 689 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,920 Internet now, we have all this new machinery, new technology, 690 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,080 whether that's an energy farming, you know, data storage, 691 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,360 whatever. Yet these things are getting 692 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,240 more expensive, which is quite interesting. 693 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,200 But it's like you learn about what the dollar is, well, what 694 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,120 is the dollar? The dollar is a unit of account 695 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,240 that's tied to a basket of consumer goods. 696 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,280 And then not only that, it's a unit of account that's 697 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,400 depreciating against this basket of consumer goods. 698 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,800 So it's it's it's even worse than people expect. 699 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,800 They're like, oh, you know, the dollar is slowly being inflated 700 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,600 away. Well, in a way it's actually 701 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,600 being quickly inflated away because it's devaluing against 702 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,280 these basic consumer goods and these basic consumer goods are 703 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,400 becoming like more abundant than ever before over the last 100 to 704 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,560 200 years. So it's kind of a a a double, 705 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,760 you know, strike against the dollar and it's it also explains 706 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,960 like why so many people have resorted to hoarding all these 707 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:41,360 other more semi scarce assets like S and B500 equities or real 708 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,120 estate or or gold or or whatnot. They're not perfectly scarce, 709 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,080 but they're semi scarce and they bid the price up of all of these 710 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,000 things very far. So yeah, that's the idea behind 711 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,360 the, the acceleration of production just kind of showing 712 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,840 that we are getting more efficient, which I think most 713 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,360 people and more and more productive which I think most 714 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,080 people would agree with, yet contrasting it with the idea 715 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,200 that these things are becoming more expensive. 716 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,920 So it's like trying to rationalize like why that's the 717 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,600 case. And then really pitching the the 718 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,320 solution to Bitcoin and saying like, well, if the dollar's 719 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,480 losing value against these basic consumer goods, there's a reason 720 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,320 that Bitcoin could be, you know, increasing in value of relative 721 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,640 to all these consumer goods in a very significant way pretty much 722 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,720 forever, which is quite, quite interesting to think about. 723 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,120 Yeah. I think one of the things that 724 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,000 opened my eyes is that like price is not value, right? 725 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,360 And so what's the value of a bread? 726 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,440 You're not hungry anymore. You know, like you, you feed 727 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,600 your family like the value of a bread did not change in the past 728 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:51,800 100 years, but the currency you use to put a price on that 729 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,640 value, that is actually what's what's changing, right. 730 00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,040 So and and then you could say the same for real estate, right? 731 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,240 Is the price going up because the utility value, you know, 732 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,920 safety being dry, you know, having your own place, privacy, 733 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,800 etcetera, right. The utility value of a home, did 734 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,640 that change, you know, in connection with the the needs 735 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,280 and wants of of the people that would live in it, right, or the 736 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,720 people that would eat the bread? And that answer is obviously no. 737 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,600 But then why does the price go up? 738 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,040 And then I think somewhat good argument for real estate is that 739 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,840 you know it it gets more scarce in certain places, right. 740 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,960 There's just not there's just less you know more people are 741 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,000 moving to New York City so there's less less homes. 742 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,000 You know that is a a valid argument. 743 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,320 But for bread there is not not really a valid argument. 744 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,720 Right. And yeah, I, I, I still think it 745 00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,880 it actually for me it works a lot. 746 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:01,680 This example, the bread example, I use the same like I use an 747 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,880 apple as well, Like, did the energy necessary to grow an 748 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,680 apple from a tree, like, is that do you think that's the same as 749 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,840 100 years ago or do you think that's more now? 750 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,680 Should it be valued more? Should you need more units to 751 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,360 buy one of these apples? You know, and it sounds just 752 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,480 stupid when I say it, but most people just say, like, yeah, no, 753 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,640 that doesn't really make sense and then say, well, that's my, 754 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,720 that's my point. So if it's not the Apple, what 755 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:30,920 is it, right, it's a currency you use to to price it in and 756 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,880 that's kind of like then a leeway to of course the rest of 757 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,320 that conversation. But do you maybe to go back to 758 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,360 your generation like what? How do they look at inflation, 759 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,040 things are getting more pricey. Of course they look at their, 760 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,840 what they've been told, told you know, could be their future, 761 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,960 getting a house etcetera, just a classic you know expectation of 762 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,120 where you go in the future but they must see higher prices as 763 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,000 well and and they have lower incomes, they don't work yet 764 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,960 etcetera. Yeah, yeah. 765 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,680 I mean, I think a lot of people, you know, question inflation, 766 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,840 like they struggle with it. They're like, gosh, like, you 767 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,160 know, the grocery prices did get more expensive. 768 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,480 Prices of, you know, whatever you want to buy wherever you 769 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,080 want, pretty much got more expensive. 770 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,040 Like everything is getting more expensive. 771 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,240 Yet they don't necessarily like, dive into like the, you know, 772 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,760 like what could be a potential solution. 773 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,600 I think like a lot of people, young people and, you know, 774 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,920 older people, you know, put the blame on like politics per SE. 775 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,000 And they're like, oh, well, it's because this side printed this 776 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,680 much money or this side printed this much money or this side 777 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,560 raised taxes or this side lower taxes. 778 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,400 And it's like, at the end of the day, like the system is set up 779 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,720 to debase the money forever. Like it's literally like the 780 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,200 whole point of the dollar is to debase the dollar against basic 781 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,960 consumer goods. So it's not necessarily like one 782 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,200 side or the other or it's not, you know, a individual person 783 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,000 that's going to be elected to power that's going to be able to 784 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,320 fix the money. Like this is just like a 785 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,320 systemic problem that not one person within the system is 786 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,200 going to be able to fix. It's going to be we're going to 787 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,160 discover a new form of technology that creates a 788 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,680 different monetary system that enables people to see prices 789 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,720 differently, to save differently, to trade wealth 790 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:30,880 differently. And that's kind of what 791 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,440 happening, what's happening with Bitcoin. 792 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,160 I would, I would argue so. I think young people like, you 793 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,520 know, they they don't know exactly what the problem is. 794 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,800 And you know if they hear about Bitcoin, they don't hear that 795 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,760 it's necessarily a solution right away. 796 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,840 And if they do hear it's a solution to, you know, 797 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:55,880 inflation, I think they're skeptical unfortunately at 798 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,840 first, which is like, I mean I was skeptical at first. 799 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,000 I think most people are are intuitively skeptical about 800 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,640 Bitcoin at first one because like you don't have you know 801 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,200 world leaders saying like Bitcoin is like the future world 802 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,720 reserve currency like buy it or your financial advisor typically 803 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:10,720 is not saying like hey go buy a lot of Bitcoin. 804 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,000 Like people smart people in their lives are not telling them 805 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,160 that this is the correct thing to do. 806 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,040 And also the volatility like freaks them out and they're not 807 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,920 capable of thinking on like a multi year time horizon. 808 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,600 They're like, oh, Bitcoin, you know, $66,000 today, but it was 809 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,000 $59,000 like last week and then the week, couple weeks before 810 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,800 that it was 74,000. So like, they're very short 811 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,000 sighted when it comes to the volatility as well. 812 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,800 And unfortunately, I think that prevents them from like 813 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,600 initially seeing Bitcoin. But over time, I think people 814 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,200 fall to the the NGU technology when there's these massive bull 815 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,040 markets. And I think people, more and 816 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,200 more people over time, are figuring out that Bitcoin 817 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,040 actually is, you know, the solution to inflation. 818 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,200 Yeah, on that volatility part, of course that is is something 819 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,080 that that critics argue with a lot, right? 820 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,280 They say that makes it unsuitable as a store of value. 821 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,880 How do you respond to that generally? 822 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,760 Yeah, it's a great question. I think it's probably like one 823 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,720 of the biggest hurdles that people see when they first 824 00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:17,080 discover Bitcoin. The way I think about Bitcoin's 825 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:22,160 volatility is the core rules of Bitcoin have been the same for 826 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:25,320 about 15 straight years. The supply schedule of Bitcoin 827 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,080 has not changed. The permissionless nature of a 828 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,440 Bitcoin has not changed. The ability to hold the coins 829 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,360 without a counterparty risk has not changed. 830 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,600 There's been no in in, you know, change in the the risk of 831 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,360 creating more than 21 million Bitcoin. 832 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,440 Bitcoin itself as a system is incredibly stable. 833 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,440 It's actually probably like one of the most stable systems in 834 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,600 the world considering like there's no centralized party 835 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,680 that's controlling it. So the volatility of Bitcoin is 836 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,720 really like the people that are around Bitcoin interacting with 837 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:57,240 Bitcoin. And you know, I think over the 838 00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:01,080 last thirteen years or so, Bitcoin has had a compound 839 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:06,120 annual growth rate of like 130%. So the price of Bitcoin is 840 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,880 growing incredibly rapidly. And so to to expect that 841 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:15,560 something, to to expect something to grow 130% annually 842 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,120 for 13 straight years in like a perfect exponential line is like 843 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,240 complete nonsense. Like theoretically, like what 844 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:25,680 would happen if that was the case, If Bitcoin was growing at 845 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,000 130 something percent every year and and most people didn't 846 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,120 understand what it was, there would be massive bull markets 847 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,000 where people are buying in because the price is going up. 848 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,280 The price would get overextended way too far and we would start 849 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,680 to go into a bear market because people don't understand what 850 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,960 they hold. Some people start panic selling, 851 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,840 some people are scared to buy when the price is going down. 852 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,160 So the price goes down even further and we have these crazy 853 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,800 dark bear markets. But at the end of the day and at 854 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,520 the bottom of the bear market, Bitcoin is still the world's 855 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,160 best money and we end up going into yet another bull market and 856 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,880 the price of Bitcoin goes crazy once again. 857 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,080 So I think there's a lot of like alpha per SE for people that 858 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,840 recognize that like Bitcoin itself as a system is incredibly 859 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,400 stable. In fact, it's like pretty anti 860 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,640 fragile. Like if things break or things 861 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,840 go bad, like we can fix them. Like there have been bugs in 862 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,960 Bitcoin and like we fix bugs in Bitcoin and if you try to attack 863 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,760 Bitcoin or or whatnot, it Bitcoin typically gets stronger, 864 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,200 whether that's something like, you know, the Silk Road, you 865 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,800 know, people use Bitcoin back for the Silk Road back then. 866 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,680 And you know, Bitcoin survived that. 867 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,840 You know, FTX collapsed, Bitcoin survived that mount Gox 868 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,160 collapse, Bitcoin survived that. Like a lot of things have 869 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,200 happened around Bitcoin that have, you know, added to this 870 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,440 volatility and confused a lot of people. 871 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,920 But Bitcoin itself is incredibly stable. 872 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,080 So, yeah, I mean, I think Bitcoin's volatility is, is 873 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,280 interesting and I think it enables you to like capitalize 874 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,040 on it and recognize that since Bitcoin's actually really 875 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,400 stable, the volatility is just the people around the world 876 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,400 adopting Bitcoin. And that's just a a volatile 877 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,760 process as there's ways of adoption and still 99.9% of the 878 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,760 world doesn't, you know, understand what Bitcoin is. 879 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,560 So it's reasonable to expect this volatility to continue. 880 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,240 Yeah, great. Great explainer I I never looked 881 00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:16,680 at it like that before. I never also really had like a 882 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,000 good answer to this. Like I would say, Bitcoin itself 883 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,440 is stable. Nothing changed right? 884 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,200 Like if the price goes down I still feel it. 885 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,840 Even after like 10-11 years I still feel it right. 886 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,920 But then how do I check if anything changed is check my 887 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,720 note and see if anything changed and nothing changed right? 888 00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:41,960 And so then you can only only think to argue, is that OK, this 889 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,560 is the understanding of people. But I think like 2-3 weeks ago 890 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,280 Michael Saylor had that talk. There is no second best And 891 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,760 there is a part about volatility in there where he says like you 892 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,400 know Bitcoin is the only thing that is world that's traded 893 00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:02,160 worldwide 24/7 365 S The price always reflects either the 894 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,800 understanding or the emotional connection of the of the people 895 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,640 holding it to. Yeah, it's it's only that, 896 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,720 right. And I thought that was great. 897 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,320 And that is also just it, it just shows the understanding of 898 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,160 of the people that that hold it basically, right. 899 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,560 And of course with that we sometimes have this piece like 900 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,520 longs cascading down or shorts or you know, but then I would 901 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,040 argue then you also don't understand what you have because 902 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,760 why would you gamble with that. But that's that's another 903 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:42,720 conversation I think. So for the future, what how do 904 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:46,360 you, how do you look at hyper bitcoinization and how how do 905 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,880 you see that unfolding? Yeah, it's a great question and 906 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,320 definitely fun to think about. I think I mentioned this 907 00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,600 earlier, but I think, you know, going on a Bitcoin standard is 908 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,200 not necessarily something that like the whole world does all at 909 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,120 once. It's something that like you as 910 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,240 an individual do. Like you can adopt Bitcoin 911 00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:10,720 yourself. You can decide to hold it, use 912 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,320 it as a store value, use it as unit of account to measure. 913 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,440 If you are holding wealth outside of Bitcoin, like was 914 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,320 that a good decision? Like did you make more bitcoins 915 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,560 or did you lose bitcoins making that decision? 916 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,680 I think that that's like a gradual process that will 917 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,280 continue to occur over time. Over time, more people will see 918 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,920 that Bitcoin is unprincipled money. 919 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,920 The dollar is principal money. That's going to inevitably 920 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,080 result in number, go up over time, and it's going to 921 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,800 accelerate as people get out of the principal money and get into 922 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,400 the unprincipled money. And when that happens, like, you 923 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,480 know, we have this unprincipled money right now, and arguably 924 00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,680 less than 1% of the world understands that it's 925 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,800 unprincipled money and understands that it's a good 926 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,880 money to hold. And so people are going to 927 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,680 figure that out and that's what's been happening for the 928 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,920 last 15 years and that's why it has 130% compound annual growth 929 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,800 rate. And when people figure it out it 930 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,120 it goes up even more and and it's pretty crazy. 931 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,320 So yeah, I mean I I think that it's hyper Bitcoin ization. 932 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,040 It's something that's it's pretty much already happening. 933 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,840 Like we're probably going to look back in the history books 934 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,160 and be like you literally could have bought Bitcoin for, you 935 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,400 know, one cent or you could have bought Bitcoin for $60,000 or 936 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,160 $66,000 in 2024 and now the price of Bitcoin is 1,000,000 937 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,160 and dollars or millions and dollars of millions of dollars 938 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,160 in real terms, you know, decades down the line. 939 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,400 And it's going to, in hindsight, it's going to be a pretty short 940 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,200 period. Like, you know, 20-30 years is 941 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,000 not really that long in the grand scheme of like the history 942 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,600 of money. I mean thinking about like how 943 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,840 long gold was money or how long even Fiat money, which is pretty 944 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,280 much a 50 year old experiment at this point, it's it's, you know, 945 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,640 50 years is a pretty, pretty significant amount of time. 946 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,720 Like Bitcoin became a trillion dollar asset and 15 years or or 947 00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:03,720 a little bit less. And so we're going to, I think 948 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:05,880 we're going to look back and be like we actually were living 949 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,520 through hyper Bitcoin ization. Like it felt slow at the time, 950 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,080 but in in hindsight it was it was happening pretty fast. 951 00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:17,960 Yeah, but I feel in general it it it, it does feel slow. 952 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:22,520 Sometimes I I think I tweeted this a few weeks but sometimes I 953 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:28,000 just realized like I we, you know you and I were talking. 954 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,960 We figured this out in some way shape or form. 955 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,960 I don't know some miracle. I I cannot even retrace my steps 956 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,440 as to how it got here. But you know like we we are 957 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:44,040 seeing this right and now it feels so I want, I just want 958 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,600 other people to see it too. You know, and so sometimes I'm 959 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,280 just like, can't, can't we hurry up? 960 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,920 Like, why is this so slow? You know? 961 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,280 But yeah, I think you're right. It's really, I think American 962 00:53:55,280 --> 00:54:00,600 Model said it also, like Fiat is also a blip in the history of 963 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,920 the entire history of money. Right. 964 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:08,480 And so Bitcoin is still even a way smaller blip on its way to 965 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,320 hopefully become, you know, DD money. 966 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,520 But yeah, that is how early we are. 967 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,080 So the fact that we are already here, I think, I think we are 968 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,200 blessed that we should be grateful, but it it is really 969 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,680 just the start like 15 years is, is nothing. 970 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,720 Yep, 100%. Yeah, it's definitely still 971 00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,480 early in, you know, hyper bitcoinization. 972 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:34,400 Like I would argue that we are probably significantly less than 973 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,960 1% of the world like truly understands Bitcoin and like 94% 974 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,240 of all Bitcoin or roughly that have already been mined. 975 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,320 And so you're going to have, you know, 99.9% of the world chasing 976 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,440 after the 4% that's remaining to be mined and then also from the 977 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,920 existing holders. So, like, it could be, it could 978 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,280 get crazy. Yeah, I asked this to Chris 979 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,520 Berger in a previous episode, but I think you're a good person 980 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,200 to ask, too. How many people in the world do 981 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,080 you think actually understand what this is? 982 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,560 Oh, that's a great question. It it depends on that what you 983 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,720 mean by understand. Like how you and I understand 984 00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:14,480 it. OK, not many. 985 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,720 To be totally fair, I don't think really anyone quite 986 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:21,400 understands what this is like. Not even us. 987 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,040 Now that's we're figuring it out. 988 00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,080 But you know, you know what I mean, right? 989 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,400 Yeah. For sure. 990 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,560 But to our to like you know, to using Bitcoin like as your unit 991 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,840 of account and like using it as like your primary tool for for 992 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,000 long term savings, I would probably say like there's like 993 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:41,960 less than like 100,000 people for sure. 994 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,000 If I had to guess, yeah. What do you think? 995 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,120 He said No more than one million. 996 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,480 Yeah, I I'm also more into 100,000 camp. 997 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,000 Yeah, just if I look at, I don't know, Twitter followers of 998 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,800 people or something like that, you know, like or I don't know. 999 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,040 Well on Reddit there's like 6.6 million members actually of the 1000 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:07,520 subreddit, which is huge. But sometimes I see discussions 1001 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:12,640 there where I think like, no you don't understand it to to that 1002 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,800 degree, right. So it's really, yeah, I I tops 1003 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:22,680 definitely 1,000,000 but yeah probably way, way lower which I 1004 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:28,120 love as a thought. So let's go with 100K, right. 1005 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,680 It's 15 years old. 100,000 people in the in the world know 1006 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,280 what this is. You know also, you know within 1007 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,560 the perspective of the money we have now, where that's going, 1008 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,240 all the depth, etcetera. You know, what are the societal 1009 00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:52,360 implications of having a an in immutable unprintable money, 1010 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,960 right. Like, what would that do to the 1011 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,800 lives of people find more meaning all the all these 1012 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,240 things, right? Save your energy over time and 1013 00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:03,800 space like all these things. And still Wall Street adopted 1014 00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,360 it. I find that so fascinating. 1015 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,440 It's so tiny that there are subreddits with more than 1016 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,880 100,000 people that understand the subject that the subreddit 1017 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:13,600 is about. Right. 1018 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,880 I don't know. Knitting or something, or, I 1019 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,680 don't know, knitting. A stupid example. 1020 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,200 But you know what I mean? Like there's there are bigger 1021 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:27,080 niches that are totally not serviced, unserviced, totally 1022 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,400 not getting airtime on CNBC and all these things, right? 1023 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,840 So I find it a funny thought exercise to think about it like 1024 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:39,440 that and then think about how Bitcoin is portrayed, talked 1025 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,960 about what type of people move into it, right? 1026 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,960 If if you really think about it like that, then for me it's kind 1027 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,480 of like a signal, like this is a thing, It's actually a thing. 1028 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,480 100%, I mean, you see, people are going to adopt it. 1029 00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,600 I mean, like Wall Street is going to go out there and sell, 1030 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:00,360 sell Bitcoin if they can make money off of it. 1031 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:01,680 And that's exactly what they're doing. 1032 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,480 So yeah, I mean to me. There's lots of things to make 1033 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,840 money off, right? Like why this thing? 1034 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,800 It it says something it's it's agreed from them. 1035 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,520 I would, I would agree, but why this thing? 1036 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,520 Yeah. And yeah, I mean I think people 1037 00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,400 just over time are figuring out this is number go up technology, 1038 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,680 whether they understand what that like why it doesn't really 1039 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,000 matter, like they're just going to figure out number go up 1040 00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,560 technology. So I need to buy and hold some 1041 00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,880 of this. Yeah, I mean that that's how 1042 00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,480 almost everyone gets in, right? So that's totally fine. 1043 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,240 Yeah. So what do you think are some 1044 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:43,200 risks for people who choose to ignore bitcoins growing 1045 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:48,400 influence? I think the the main risk is 1046 00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:53,640 you'll, you'll look back on, you know, your portfolio, like your 1047 00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,200 net worth, the savings that you have. 1048 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,440 It could be a lot, it could be a very little. 1049 00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,040 And you'll realize like how much Bitcoin and we already filled 1050 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:04,360 this today, right? Like, you realize how much 1051 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,040 Bitcoin you could have bought, you know, five years ago, 10 1052 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,440 years ago, 15 years ago. And it's like, wow, like that 1053 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,480 was a lot of Bitcoin. And so if you choose to continue 1054 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,560 to ignore it, then you're probably going to get five more 1055 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,560 years down the line and realize like, wow, I could have bought 1056 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,360 that much Bitcoin or that many Sats even. 1057 00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,320 And you know, now I can barely now I may not make that many 1058 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,880 Sats for the rest of my entire earning career because the price 1059 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,760 of Bitcoin relative to everything else has gone up so 1060 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,760 much. So I think it's something that 1061 00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:42,480 like you, you can ignore and you can continue living like in Fiat 1062 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,080 world and things will continue getting more expensive and 1063 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,640 you'll continue to feel like you're falling behind. 1064 00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:52,080 But you now have a a new tool that's out there that will 1065 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,440 enable you to not feel like you're falling behind, to 1066 00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,320 actually feel like you're maybe getting ahead and maybe at 1067 00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,200 least, you know, staying on a level playing field with the top 1068 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,680 capital allocators in the entire world, which is pretty, pretty 1069 01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,800 cool. Yeah yeah we figured it out 1070 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,400 before the finance rose man that's so funny. 1071 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:17,360 So funny but but I like what you said also what I love is there's 1072 01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,280 like unit bias going down but there's also unit bias going up 1073 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,400 right let's. So I I think to illustrate how 1074 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,400 fast it could go to what to what you said is if Bitcoin is 1075 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,960 $100,000 way more people are going to pay attention to it 1076 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,200 right. I I I really think 100K is like 1077 01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,120 a meme number, right? Like 100K and Twitter will 1078 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,600 explode. It will be everywhere, right? 1079 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,720 Like that's always been a psychological barrier for me as 1080 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,640 well. Like 100K means 1,000,000 means 1081 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:53,360 10 million and so on. But 100K if you are a cash 1082 01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,280 millionaire, 1,000,000 millionaire? 1083 01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,080 Are you going to buy one? Are you going to, are you going 1084 01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,040 to, are you going to put in 10% of what you what your net worth 1085 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:05,760 is? Right. 1086 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,600 I think it's just an interesting question like would you, would 1087 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,160 you do that and even though it would be more and more 1088 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,840 legitimized at that price, I think for a lot of people it 1089 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,920 would still be a very, very difficult decision, but then 1090 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,200 like so. So my point is more like you 1091 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,640 have to understand that you're going to get priced out maybe in 1092 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:29,600 hard terms of hard dollars, but also in terms of, you know the 1093 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,720 the unit bias that you you carry with you. 1094 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,360 So you need to study even if you don't want to buy it yet. 1095 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:39,520 Like you need to study even in case it gets to that point, so 1096 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,480 you can make a rational decision. 1097 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,960 Yeah, I mean, I think it works. The unit bias is so interesting. 1098 01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,760 It does kind of work multiple ways, where to some extent I do 1099 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,360 think it does help people because they're like, oh, I need 1100 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,960 to reach, you know, one Bitcoin per SE and you know, one bit 1101 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,800 like $60,000 to an average person around the world, that's 1102 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,520 a that's a lot of money. Exactly, yes. 1103 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,120 Yeah. And so like it makes you like 1104 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,440 maybe stretch yourself a little bit more than you intuitively 1105 01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,560 would if you know, we were initially quoting in Sats 1106 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,920 because you're like, Oh well, I already got, you know, 10 1107 01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,960 million Sats, which is, you know, .1 Bitcoin. 1108 01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:21,960 Now that's plenty like 10 million Sats, whatever, you 1109 01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,640 know, that's a lot. So it it, it makes you stretch 1110 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,440 more potentially. But then the counter side of 1111 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:33,360 that is like, it makes people, you know, less inclined to 1112 01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,720 consider it like they're like, oh, I'll never be able to afford 1113 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,880 one Bitcoin and so I'll give up and never try, which is kind of 1114 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:41,600 unfortunate. So there's pros and cons to 1115 01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,720 looking at it both ways. Yeah, I just googled average 1116 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,120 yearly salary worldwide. What do you think it is? 1117 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,880 Probably like 25,000 U.S. dollars. 1118 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,360 What is it 9? 9733. 1119 01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:01,960 That's crazy. That's crazy from April 23 but 1120 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,280 yeah that makes sense. So but this already shows that 1121 01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,960 you know making over 100,000 a year it's it's top ten global 1122 01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:16,640 but most people would be priced out of one which is also I think 1123 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,360 an argument that that lots of critics should use right. 1124 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,760 Like yeah you should have been early then you were lucky 1125 01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,680 etcetera. But I think we should go from 1126 01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,880 the, yes, the one bit one Bitcoin, you know is it's a nice 1127 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,560 thing to say, like it's an attainable, that's what you 1128 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,520 should do. But we should rather go to like 1129 01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,880 a million sets or something like that. 1130 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,520 Yeah, I mean it, I think it, it depends on like who you are, 1131 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,600 right? Like for some people getting to 1132 01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,600 one Bitcoin is great. For some people getting to a 1133 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,280 million sets is great. Like depends on where you are in 1134 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,840 the world and like you know what your upbringing was and you know 1135 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,720 a lot of different factors. But yeah, I mean like I think 1136 01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,840 both are going to be very, you know you're that's going to be a 1137 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,400 lot of money in the future for sure. 1138 01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:08,160 So both work. I saw people who wanted to 1139 01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,680 change the word sets to actually Bitcoin, so that one set would 1140 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,600 be one Bitcoin right to to to turn it around, maybe to combat 1141 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,000 the unit bias, to also help help people. 1142 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,600 I thought, I thought that was a was an interesting idea. 1143 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:26,480 Well, so when when people buy Bitcoin, you know, of course, or 1144 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,280 what when they own it, it's totally different than what you 1145 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,400 would have, you know, versus a traditional bank where you 1146 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,160 basically kind of like outsource the responsibility over the 1147 01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,280 wealth, right? If you hold your own Bitcoin, 1148 01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,280 then it's all on you. But how do, how do you look at 1149 01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,080 these kind of like security aspects when you hold Bitcoin? 1150 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,600 Because I also want to share or ask, like how you do this at 1151 01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:52,680 Unchained. Because they're they offer a 1152 01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,080 different possibility too, right? 1153 01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,120 Yep, yeah. I think when people would 1154 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,200 originally get into Bitcoin, they want the number go up 1155 01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,600 technology and they don't think about anything else which is 1156 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,960 completely reasonable. That could be buying ETF, buying 1157 01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,920 on FTX, buying on Block Fi, flying on Coinbase, doesn't 1158 01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,520 matter. They just want the number go up. 1159 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:17,160 Then over time it becomes the number goes up for you and 1160 01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,560 you're like, I need to figure out how to store this securely 1161 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:22,640 because I don't want to lose it, right? 1162 01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,440 Like we've seen history shows that if you don't know what 1163 01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,560 you're doing with your Bitcoin, you're going to lose it. 1164 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:31,480 And so I think people turn to something like self custody 1165 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,360 where they're like, oh, Bitcoin is a bearer asset that I can 1166 01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,080 hold myself. I can actually hold the private 1167 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,880 keys to Bitcoin, but that requires a lot of personal 1168 01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:41,440 responsibility. It can be scary. 1169 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,120 And if you don't know what you're doing, you you can lose 1170 01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,600 your Bitcoin. And so Unchained is a pretty 1171 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,200 great solution where you can work with them and they'll have 1172 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,080 a backup key for your Bitcoin and you'll set up what's called 1173 01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,920 a Multi sig vault, which is just short for multi signature or 1174 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,120 multi key. And you as an individual can 1175 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,440 hold two of the keys to your Bitcoin and then Unchained and 1176 01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:09,160 holds one backup key. And so in that case, you can 1177 01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,920 always move your Bitcoin out of your Unchained vault with both 1178 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,080 of your keys. But if you happen to lose a key, 1179 01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:20,520 or one gets stolen or whatever happens, then Unchain has that 1180 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,720 backup key that gives you that extra assurance that you know 1181 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:24,920 you're not going to lose your Bitcoin. 1182 01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,560 So I think Unchain is a great way to to hold Bitcoin for the 1183 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,320 future. Yeah, yeah, I love that. 1184 01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:34,200 I need to dive into that more. There's I think multi SEC is one 1185 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:41,360 of the biggest things that I I have not doven into two or like 1186 01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,480 enough. I I also wanted to ask you, you 1187 01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:49,600 went from being interested studying you know like 6 years 1188 01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,520 years ago to now full time researcher. 1189 01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,880 How is your perspective on Bitcoin changed. 1190 01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,200 What's the biggest thing you think changed? 1191 01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:04,440 It's a great question. One thing that I think is 1192 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,040 interesting is I, I you don't realize how small it still is. 1193 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,120 Like you're outside of Bitcoin and you see people with lots of 1194 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,000 followers on Twitter or whatnot and you're like, wow, like this 1195 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,640 Bitcoin thing is so huge. I'm late to the party. 1196 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,520 And then like, you start working in, in companies in the Bitcoin 1197 01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,480 space, you start talking to miners. 1198 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,600 You do a bunch of different things in the Bitcoin space and 1199 01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,840 you're like, at the end of the day, like these are all just 1200 01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,360 people interacting with this new tool called Bitcoin. 1201 01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:34,120 Like we think we know what's happening. 1202 01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,240 But you know, this is just kind of like an alien technology 1203 01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:41,120 that's been dropped on us and it's increasing in value at like 1204 01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:44,360 an unprecedented rate. And we're all just trying to use 1205 01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,320 and interact with it in our own unique, you know, way in our own 1206 01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,880 and we're all acting in our own incentive to do so for for our 1207 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,120 own personal benefit. And so, yeah, I think it's just 1208 01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:59,280 like it's so early. It's still very small compared 1209 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,880 to, you know, so many other industries and and you know, 1210 01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,560 whether that's like technology in general or financial services 1211 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:10,280 or or banking or or whatnot. And people are still like 1212 01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,920 figuring out like, you know, how Bitcoin works and like how the 1213 01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,600 best way to hold it is And a lot of people like, are just 1214 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:17,800 learning as they go, which I think is pretty cool. 1215 01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,200 Yeah, me too. I think it's an ongoing journey, 1216 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,319 right. I I, I think, you know, maybe to 1217 01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:29,160 clarify what I said before, like we have figured it out. 1218 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,560 Well, I meant up until certain points, we have definitely not 1219 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:36,319 figured out the entire thing. I think the entire thing I don't 1220 01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:39,479 know like it culminates in prosperity of humanity or 1221 01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,960 something so that I, I I feel that's still very far away and 1222 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:47,800 also totally not understandable what what that would be right. 1223 01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,640 So there's so many aspects still to to to figure out. 1224 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:58,800 I think that what what gives me my enthusiasm and interest to 1225 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,680 just keep on learning about this is like I feel that this is a 1226 01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,479 never ending thing. Like every week I have my mind 1227 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:10,319 blown about another piece of content that I read or like a 1228 01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:12,880 quote I hear where I think like, Oh yeah, I can look at it from 1229 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,279 this way, right. So I think, you know, it's just 1230 01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:18,520 something that I think has captivated me. 1231 01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:24,279 But also you you went into Bitcoin as a career as well. 1232 01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,479 What what made you do that like to to go from studying to 1233 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,720 becoming like a real advocate also? 1234 01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:36,600 Yeah, I mean Bitcoin, like I'm sure it is for you. 1235 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,200 It's like, it's something that I couldn't stop thinking about 1236 01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,880 like once. I like the, the lottery ticket 1237 01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:43,479 ticket analogy that I used earlier. 1238 01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,120 It's like I saw Bitcoin as a lottery ticket. 1239 01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,279 Then I realized it's a lottery ticket with like pretty 1240 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,160 incredible odds. And I'm like, if someone handed 1241 01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,920 you a lottery ticket that was like you saw the winning 1242 01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,080 numbers, you know, tomorrow or 10 years from now already and 1243 01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,280 you're like all you got to do is hold on to this lottery ticket 1244 01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:00,720 and it's like going to go up and value a lot. 1245 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,520 Like it's pretty hard not to be fascinated with that. 1246 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,600 And so like during, you know, 2021 bull market, that was when 1247 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,960 I had the opportunity to join a a Bitcoin company full time And 1248 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,120 I was like, you know, I'm going to do this, like, why not? 1249 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,880 Like, I'm still young. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't 1250 01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,520 think I'm wrong and, you know, haven't haven't looked back. 1251 01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,520 It's been a wild ride, but it's been awesome. 1252 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,160 Yeah, I love, I love to see it, man. 1253 01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,600 I think it's very inspirational to see someone really take that 1254 01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,280 jump. Of course I'm also spending lots 1255 01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,960 of time on this but I would also love to continue you know my 1256 01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:39,360 career or or also go full time on a podcast just to to work on 1257 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:44,520 this because I have the same I think this this is almost the 1258 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,160 only thing I think every day. I think this is so interesting 1259 01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:51,360 you know and yeah, fun. I I'd love to see that. 1260 01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:57,680 So if someone is new to Bitcoin, what advice would you give them 1261 01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,600 on learning about it or developing their mindset to 1262 01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:08,280 start studying it? Yeah, I mean if you're new to 1263 01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:11,600 Bitcoin, I would say have an extremely long time horizon. 1264 01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,400 Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme. 1265 01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,160 It's it's it's not a gamble per SE either. 1266 01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,640 In the short term, it's it's certainly a gamble and it's 1267 01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,240 extremely volatile. And so you have to understand 1268 01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:27,040 that Bitcoin can and probably will fall 80% again at some 1269 01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,120 point in the future. Maybe it'll fall from like 1270 01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,920 500,000 and and fall 80% or maybe it'll fall from you know, 1271 01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,120 100,000. Like it's hard to tell exactly, 1272 01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,440 you know what the price of Bitcoin is going to do, but it's 1273 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,240 going to be volatile. But it's also going to most 1274 01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,360 likely, in my opinion at least have extreme, massive upside. 1275 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,080 So yeah, I think just be aware of that. 1276 01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,480 You know you can read something like the Bitcoin standard when 1277 01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:54,120 Alden's broken money. I know we were talking about 1278 01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,880 when Alden's video that's kind of highlighted broken money. 1279 01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,160 It's a great 30 minute easy to watch video. 1280 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:03,520 We talked about the the report that I wrote called your Your 1281 01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,040 wealth is melting. That's a that's a great report 1282 01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:07,440 for people to check out and and yeah. 1283 01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,200 Yeah, yeah. Those are great starting points. 1284 01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:16,080 I would add to that. I love the Bitcoin explainer by 1285 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,520 Jack Mahlers at Bitcoin Atlantis. 1286 01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,160 I was there in the crowd and I thought, well OK, he's going to 1287 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,600 tell about Bitcoin. I know this stuff, but I thought 1288 01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,040 this was the best explainer I've seen in in 10 years. 1289 01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:31,880 So I would also recommend people to check that out too. 1290 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,240 I think it's like 45 minutes or something like that. 1291 01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:38,200 So yeah, you know what? I I I think it's fun. 1292 01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:43,520 Like there's so many resources out there like to learn about 1293 01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:47,120 Bitcoin, right. So from whatever angle you look 1294 01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,880 at it or get into it, you know or whatever peaks you're 1295 01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,320 interest at first. Like there's there's already so 1296 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,360 much content to definitely compared to 10 years ago by the 1297 01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:01,320 way to just read up on right. Like you you can get a good 1298 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,400 grasp of this. Well, just from your report I'd 1299 01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:09,880 say right as to why, why this is a thing and why people are 1300 01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:15,880 paying interest to to this and from there on you know if you're 1301 01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:20,840 triggered then I think Twitter and and and Google are your best 1302 01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,920 friends and there's just so much to find. 1303 01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:28,880 So yeah, cool. Last question and I asked 1304 01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:32,000 everyone the same question, which is what is a core belief 1305 01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,640 you will never let go. It's a great question. 1306 01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,280 My answer to this probably have many answers, but simple short 1307 01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:44,600 answer would probably be like free markets and capitalism are 1308 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,360 the most appropriate way to price capital price goods and 1309 01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:51,880 services, to price businesses, to price ideas, to price you 1310 01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:55,000 know equities, to price real estate price Bitcoin. 1311 01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:01,840 And in the world of capitalism, in free markets, people all act 1312 01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:05,560 in their own self-interest and the consumer and the people are 1313 01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:09,960 the ones that ultimately benefit the most from this system of 1314 01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,880 everyone acting in their own self-interest. 1315 01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,840 And I think if we can continue to create efficient markets and 1316 01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:21,480 and drive down barriers between people, groups of people, 1317 01:14:21,480 --> 01:14:27,040 countries and whatnot and allow people to act freely and and 1318 01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,280 act, you know, in their own self-interest without harming 1319 01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,400 others, I think that the world would be a better place. 1320 01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,920 Love that man. Great Ender, thanks. 1321 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,480 Thanks so much for coming on. I will make sure to you know 1322 01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:43,480 link to to your ex account so people can follow you. 1323 01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,800 I think your report is probably your pin tweet so people can 1324 01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,040 check that out too. And yeah man, thanks for your 1325 01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:50,960 time. I really enjoyed it. 1326 01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:54,040 Yeah, thanks for having me on. This was awesome. 1327 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,640 I enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed this episode. 1328 01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,640 If you did, it would be amazing if you could rate, review and 1329 01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,200 subscribe on the podcast platform of your choice. 1330 01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,160 It will help us educate more millennials on the importance of 1331 01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:07,200 Bitcoin. You can follow and connect with 1332 01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:11,200 me on Twitter. I'm Brom K That's at BR AM K and 1333 01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,680 if you are or know someone who has an interesting perspective 1334 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:15,640 on Bitcoin that's worth sharing, hit me up. 1335 01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:17,760 I read and reply to every single message. 1336 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,560 I appreciate your support and hope you'll be here for the next 1337 01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:22,000 episodes. Thanks for listening. 1338 01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:22,520 Bye.