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All right. 
Hey there. 

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This is from Constant and you're
listening to Bitcoin for 

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Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 

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most relevant technology that 
you, my fellow millennials, 

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should understand and adopt. 
In this episode, I'm joined by 

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Alexander Svetsky. 
He's an author and entrepreneur 

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who ran numerous ventures in the
past 15 years. 

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And together with Mark Moss, he 
wrote and published the best 

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selling book on A Communist 
Manifesto and is now working on 

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a next book called The Bushido 
of Bitcoin. 

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He also founded the Bitcoin 
Times in 2018, a limited once a 

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year published magazine covering
bitcoins current affairs. 

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And he's currently building an, 
well multiple open source AI 

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tools for the focus on the 
spirit of Satoshi, the world's 

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first Bitcoin centric language 
model. 

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Well that's that's a lot of 
stuff man. 

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Welcome. 
Thanks man. 

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Yes, I have a disease which is I
can't sit straight. 

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I can't sit in one spot too 
many. 

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Things Isn't that also what 
Bitcoin makes you do? 

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A bit like you want to 
contribute to it. 

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Yeah, you wanna. 
I mean, Bitcoin. 

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Yes, it does. 
It absolutely does incentivize 

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wanting to do bigger things with
your life. 

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And I think that's something 
with we'll discuss in today's 

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episode, but something moderns 
have lost. 

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You know, we've sort of been, 
you know, psyoped into valuing 

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average instead of excellence. 
And you know, everyone's, 

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everyone's taught that it's, 
it's OK, you know, just to be 

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just average and do just enough,
right? 

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And I think I find that a 
disgusting way to live. 

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I really like like the memes, 
but it's said at the same time 

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like these memes of it's a 
specific name for like carving 

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of statues where the statues 
have like a like a veil, right, 

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or they're they're wearing 
something on their head, do you 

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know what I mean? 
Like it's this old, like Greek. 

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It's like a certain way of of 
creating sculptures, as if 

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someone is wearing something 
over their heads, like a cloth 

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or something. 
Do you know? 

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This. 
No, I don't know it. 

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No, I'll send you a picture. 
But like people send these 

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memes, like why don't we do this
anymore? 

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Like, it's just like this crazy 
amount of time that people spend

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on a statue, right, that just 
lives for a few thousand years 

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and we are still marveling at 
like how how did they do that? 

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I think that that is to your 
point, right? 

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That we don't really know how to
how to do that anymore are also 

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not really incentivized to take 
I don't know a year or two just 

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skull you know creating a 
sculpture. 

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So yeah, totally. 
Yeah. 

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Beauty takes time and we we we 
don't want to invest time in 

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anything anymore. 
Yeah, definitely. 

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So we'll dive into that. 
But first I wanted to ask you, 

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how did you discover Bitcoin and
what made you not get it 

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initially? 
Oh, I I was a gold bug back in 

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20 between 2008 and 2012. 
I was a crazy gold bug, right? 

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I was into gold silver. 
I was playing that stuff. 

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I was watching Max Kai as a Doug
Casey, all these crazy people, 

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Mike Maloney, etcetera. 
Talk about gold and silver. 

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Because I had. 
I had taken my scholarship 

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money, I was studying civil 
engineering. 

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I took my scholarship money, I 
put it on the stock market, and 

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I lost everything, basically. 
And I spent all this time trying

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to figure out how was I so 
stupid. 

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And that's where I sort of found
like, gold sound money as a 

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concept. 
And it was around that time that

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I first thought about Bitcoin, I
believe. 

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I don't know, I I remember where
or how. 

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Maybe it was Max Kaiser jumping 
up and down on a couch or 

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something, yelling about 
Bitcoin, but. 

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I can remember that also. 
Yeah, it was something. 

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But I honestly, I never took it 
seriously. 

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I was like, yeah, whatever. 
Sound money, right? 

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I've got my gold, I've got my 
silver. 

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That's all I was interested in. 
So my life took me a different 

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direction. 
I was on an entrepreneurial 

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path. 
I was building businesses, I got

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into tech, I was building 
startups, all sorts of things 

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like that. 
And it wasn't until 2015 again, 

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that late 2015, early 2016, that
a friend of mine said, hey bro, 

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you know, like you heard of this
Bitcoin thing. 

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And I was like, yeah, I heard 
about that a while ago, like, is

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it still around? 
And he's like, yeah, bro, you 

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know my my friend made, you 
know, $1,000,000 overnight from 

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I was like this guy talking 
about. 

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And we, you know, we we get into
this conversation. 

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I look at, look up Bitcoin and I
see it's something like 500 

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bucks or whatever it was at the 
time. 

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And I was like, holy crap. 
Like I remember this being at 

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like dollars or something like, 
you know, something of those 

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sort of that that range. 
And you know, that obviously 

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interested me in it. 
And I started going down the 

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rabbit hole and I've got this 
sort of meme that I say to 

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people, it's like I came for the
money, but I stayed for the 

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money. 
So like when you, when you start

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to understand like what the 
money actually entails, there's 

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there's a bigger, there's a 
bigger thing at play here, 

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right. 
And and yeah, that like, as I 

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started going down that rabbit 
hole, it was particularly, you 

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know, 2017 where I really became
a Bitcoin maximalist. 

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You know, I realized there was 
something special, something 

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important, something unique here
And here I am today writing, 

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going to businesses, doing all 
sorts of stuff in and around 

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Bitcoin. 
Nice man. 

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Yeah, it's interesting. 
That number go up obviously is 

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for a lot of people the thing 
where they where they get into 

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Bitcoin. 
But then when you realize that 

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it's actually so much bigger, 
could be so much bigger but 

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already so much bigger than just
you as the individual, right. 

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It's so fascinating also to, I 
don't know how you, how you 

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experienced that, but for me, 
like sometimes I end up 

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somewhere in just my rational 
thinking and then I think like, 

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no, it can, it cannot be that 
big, right. 

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And then I watch other people 
talk about their own journey and

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then they add up in the same 
place and then I think like, OK,

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well maybe there's some merit to
it still, right. 

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So you do need to see that other
people you know who you respect 

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or or or you enjoy their 
thinking that they end up in the

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same place just to keep your 
own, well, almost ego in check, 

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right? 
In a in a in a good way, 

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there's. 
Yeah, there's either definitely 

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something here, or we are the 
most ridiculously stupid group 

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of cultists in the history of 
humanity. 

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It's literally one of the two. 
Like, it's like it's one of the 

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two extremes. 
There's no middle ground here. 

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Yeah, 100% agree. 
I once, once someone told me, 

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yeah, the CIA made it and this 
and this and blah, blah. 

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I said, well, if the CIA made 
this and this comes out and it's

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all bad and all doom and gloom 
and whatever, then I think I 

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have to live in a cave and like,
I don't know, like go away. 

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Like I would be honestly, like I
would have fooled myself. 

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So I fully agree, man. 
Like it's it's a zero or 

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everything, right? 
Yeah. 

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Let's talk about the stuff you 
did, man. 

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I love the name on Communist 
Manifesto. 

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Thank you. 
It's a book with Mark Moss where

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you argue for a society 
structured around natural 

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capitalist principles, dynamic 
inequality. 

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I would love to hear what you 
what you mean by that and social

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mobility based on individual 
merit and competence. 

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That's something I I really 
like. 

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You know that that's, you know, 
equality of opportunity, not 

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outcome, right? 
What inspired you to to write 

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this? 
Yeah. 

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So the the the book came about 
as a as a joke initially. 

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So we were Mark and I were in 
Salvador kind of between the 

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Salvador Bitcoin announcement 
and the implementation. 

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So I think it was like July 2021
or something like that. 

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And he, he just asked me, we're 
having lunch and he said, have 

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you read the Communist 
Manifesto? 

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And I was like why the, why the 
fuck would I do that? 

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And he's like it's really bad. 
And I said, I'm sure it is Mark.

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I said, why would I want to give
myself brain cancer by reading 

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this. 
And he's like, you know, he 

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goes, did you realize it was 
like the the one of the most 

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widely read socio or sort of 
political economics books in 

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history. 
And I was like, damn, bro. 

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I was like that explains why the
world is so dumb. 

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And you know, he sort of just 
said as a passing comment, you 

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know, someone should write a 
rebuttal to this or, you know, 

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something similar to this that 
offers a different perspective. 

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And you know, I said to him, I 
was like, you know, maybe we 

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should do it one day and we kind
of left it at that. 

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And it was 6-7 months later in 
Austin. 

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Like I some things have changed 
in my life and I had a bit of 

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time up my sleeve and I hit him 
up. 

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I said, hey dude, let's write 
this book. 

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Let's lock ourselves in a room 
in an Airbnb and let's sit down 

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and do a book Sprint. 
And we wrote the bulk of the 

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book in a week and coming into I
wasn't sure exactly what we're 

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gonna write. 
Like we started off kind of 

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doing like a rebuttal chapter by
chapter, point by point. 

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But then kind of the book took 
on its own life. 

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So the only thing that emulates 
from the original Communist 

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Manifesto is like the four 
chapter structure and but but 

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other than that like we it's 
it's its own manifesto it lives 

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on its own and the the name also
came about as a joke because we 

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weren't sure what the name it 
we're going to call it the 

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Capitalist Manifesto, the 
Libertarian Manifesto, the 

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Individualist Manifesto, the 
Sovereign like well we're 

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throwing out these names we're 
like and then they all be like 

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they suck You know we're we're 
sitting there with with Mark's 

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wife and she kind of it was just
really funny she goes why don't 

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you call it the Uncommunist 
Manifesto. 

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And we kind of, like, looked at 
each other like, damn, that's 

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pretty good. 
So we how? 

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To uncommunist yourself, 
basically. 

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It was, it was great. 
And we were like, OK, let's just

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roll with that and and yeah, the
the book sort of, I'm actually 

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very proud of it. 
Like it's a very easy read it, 

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it takes, you know, you could go
sit there and spend years 

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reading Rothbard, Mises, you 
know Austrian economics, 

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libertarian philosophy, like all
this sort of stuff. 

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Or you could in an hour and a 
half read the Young Communist 

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Manifesto and get basically a a 
really well written. 

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And I'm not just saying well 
written to blow smoke up my own 

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arse, but I I think Mark and I 
really did a good job of taking 

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these complex ideas and making 
them simple and kind of 

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extracting four or five like key
ideas that people can walk away 

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with that can adjust their frame
of reference the way they view 

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the world. 
And and I I I'm actually in the 

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process of trying to get the 
book into Malay's hands for his 

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cabinet because like he's going 
to have a big job of trying to 

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re educate the Argentine public 
on these principles, these ideas

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and something like this. 
Like, nobody's going to sit down

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and read a Rothbard textbook, 
you know, or maybe a few people 

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will, but not not a mass amount 
of people, but people will read 

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90 minutes of a book. 
And you know, this, this could 

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fundamentally shift the way 
people think. 

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So hopefully it becomes that 
kind of thing. 

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And and yeah, that's basically 
the premise of the book. 

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We can dig into some of those 
points. 

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00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,600
Yeah, awesome. 
Yeah. 

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I wanted to ask you about the 
concept of dynamic inequality 

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and why it's so important in the
manifesto. 

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Yeah, so I mean, I think 
equality is a scam, equality of 

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00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,320
all kinds is a scam. 
And we'll we'll talk about this 

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next, which is I think it's not 
only equality of outcome which 

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is bad, but equality of 
opportunity is also stupid. 

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So you know what for me 
fundamentally is important is 

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inequality. 
Now when I say inequality, I 

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mean variance, I mean, you know,
I mean diverse outcomes, I mean 

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hierarchy, I mean excellence, 
you know, so all of these 

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things, which fundamentally I 
mean life, right? 

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00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,200
Like, show me something in life 
that is equal nothing. 

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Like, you know, you look out, 
you know, I'm looking out of the

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ocean. 
Now. 

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00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,800
The ocean is not flat and equal.
Like there's, you know, waves up

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00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,320
and down, like I'm looking at 
the mountains. 

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Like, you know, we as human 
beings, we, we are different, 

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00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,880
You know, like we, we look 
different now. 

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00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,280
You know, even in a game, if you
have a fair game, like a 

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00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,880
basketball game, if the rules 
are fair, the outcomes are going

236
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,720
to be unequal. 
That's what you want. 

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00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,560
You know, you want a winner and 
a loser, right? 

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00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,960
So, so life, anything that is 
living, anything that is alive, 

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seeks inequality. 
That which is dead for example 

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00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,520
or or or death oriented seeks 
equality. 

241
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,360
Like equality is a state of 
flatness and of death, right? 

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00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,160
Like you know, another good 
analogy to think about is. 

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00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,920
That's no growth. 
Well, exactly and and well and 

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00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,640
no growth literally means death.
There's no like so. 

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00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,560
So this is what? 
Like, this is a Tony Robbins 

246
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:23,840
thing that I learnt many years 
ago. 

247
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,360
He said, like, you do not get to
pick between growth and no 

248
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,360
growth. 
You actually have to pick 

249
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between growth and death. 
Living things are either growing

250
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,480
or they're dying. 
There's no, like, stasis point, 

251
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,000
right? 
So the the example I was going 

252
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,360
to use was you. 
You look at colors, right? 

253
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,640
Like red, blue-green, blah, 
blah, blah. 

254
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,760
Like all these different colors 
are unequal. 

255
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,160
They're different. 
If you take all the colors and 

256
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,440
want to make them equal, you 
mash them all together and what 

257
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,200
do you get? 
Gray, right? 

258
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,040
Like so, So Gray is the color of
communism, right? 

259
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,480
Gray is the color of death. 
Like flatlining is the color of 

260
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,880
death. 
So what you need in a functional

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00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,680
alive society is inequality, but
it needs to be dynamic. 

262
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,480
So like you can't have static 
inequality, meaning. 

263
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,000
All right, I'm a central banker,
I can print all the money I 

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00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,960
want. 
And you, middle class, whatever,

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00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,880
producer, consumer, whatever, it
doesn't matter. 

266
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,480
You get robbed. 
And we create this static 

267
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,480
inequality where you end up with
smaller and smaller and smaller 

268
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,880
and smaller percentage of people
who have everything, and the 

269
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,960
larger and larger and larger 
percentage of people who have 

270
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,520
nothing, right. 
And that that's a recipe for the

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00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,840
breaking of a functional system,
whereas dynamic inequality 

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00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,840
creates a robust functional 
system. 

273
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,520
And nature is full of dynamic 
inequality. 

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00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,440
All of nature is like that. 
Humanity. 

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00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,400
I shouldn't say humanity. 
I should say the modern version 

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00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,960
of the, you know, the kind of 
collectivism that we've tried to

277
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:56,280
create is an attempt at creating
is an attempt at trying to 

278
00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,160
create equality and ending up 
with static inequality because 

279
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,600
of how stupid that attempt is. 
Yeah, it's like I had to think 

280
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,040
of the word nature, too. 
In general, it's fascinating. 

281
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,880
I like the quote. 
Have you ever see a tree stop 

282
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,840
growing? 
You know, it's the same thing. 

283
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:17,080
Like it's there's no tree that 
wakes up, you know with the sun 

284
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,600
and things just today. 
I'm not going to do anything, 

285
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,080
right. 
But yeah so and and where that 

286
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:29,240
tree seed fell now on the side 
of a rock for a nice plane with 

287
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,320
water and and you know all the 
nutrients and whatever, like 

288
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,640
that's the that's the chaos of 
life. 

289
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,800
Right. 
So when you just shared this I 

290
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,240
also have to think of nature. 
But isn't the problem more, And 

291
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,960
I like what you said, like it's 
the modern human thinking where 

292
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,200
we can like exclude ourselves 
from nature because we can think

293
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,440
or, you know, construct some 
rationale as to why we are 

294
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,160
outside of nature, Right. 
Isn't it something like that as 

295
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,320
well, that that's kind of hubris
in a sense. 

296
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,640
Yeah, yeah. 
I write about this a lot in the 

297
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,120
upcoming book The Bushido of 
Bitcoin. 

298
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,280
I talk about what I call 
physiopsychology, and this is a 

299
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,040
bit of a Nietzschean idea in 
some senses, that we've tried to

300
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,760
separate the mind from the body,
right? 

301
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,680
And the body is the thing that 
connects us to nature, right? 

302
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,880
You know, the body is this 
biological thing and. 

303
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,880
And to a degree, the mind is 
either a extension of the body 

304
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,480
you know or something. 
But you know the mind is also 

305
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,000
natural but it you know it, it 
has this tendency to create this

306
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,440
separation from you know, 
nature, the body. 

307
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,640
And you know, I mean it's even 
in our language, you know mind 

308
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,800
over matter, right? 
It's like, no, it's mind and 

309
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,520
matter together, right? 
Like these things are 

310
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,560
fundamentally, inextricably 
linked. 

311
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,520
And and yeah, it's it's just 
you're spot on when you say like

312
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,800
we've we've created the 
separation and we wonder why we 

313
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,480
are no longer connected to you 
know, reality. 

314
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,280
Yeah, you know, that's the 
consequence. 

315
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,880
And so you also talk in a book 
about individual autonomy, like 

316
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:05,920
how does that help people or 
society shape different economic

317
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,680
structures? 
Like why is it? 

318
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,360
Is that because a lot of people 
are dependent right now? 

319
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,080
Yeah, so, so this one, I mean, 
you know, I've, I've come to 

320
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,040
believe that some people just 
are fundamentally incapable of 

321
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,320
autonomy. 
You know, like if 2020 taught me

322
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,440
anything is like some people are
literally living, breathing in 

323
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,000
PCs, You know, they they they 
can't think for themselves and 

324
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,560
like they're just zombies, 
right. 

325
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,840
But you know, generally 
speaking, generally speaking, 

326
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,640
humans are adaptable and we 
either adapt to being 

327
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,800
independent or being dependent. 
One of the two, right? 

328
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,560
And a great way to think about 
it is our smartphones, right? 

329
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,520
I remember when I was young, 
before the smartphone, I was 

330
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,760
doing door to door sales. 
I was knocking on doors. 

331
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,040
And this was before we had 
Google Maps. 

332
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,280
Like such thing didn't exist. 
We would get given, like we had 

333
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,520
those big St. maps, like the big
fat books, and before going out 

334
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,599
what we called on the field, 
before we'd go out and knock on 

335
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,520
doors, we'd take the street map 
photocopy and then we'd mark out

336
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,359
what our territory was and pass 
it around to each salesperson. 

337
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:17,760
And you would, you would like, 
learn the territory somehow, 

338
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,800
like bodily wise. 
Like I could get dropped in any 

339
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,160
suburb, anywhere, and I just 
knew my way around. 

340
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,760
I didn't need a map. 
I didn't need Google Maps. 

341
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,920
I didn't eat shit. 
These days you drop somebody in 

342
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,560
like the middle of a capital 
city with signs everywhere, 

343
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,120
they'll be lost in 5 minutes 
without Google Maps, without 

344
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:34,760
their phone. 
They'll freak the fuck out. 

345
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:39,560
They'll have anxiety. 
So it's like we adapt to, yeah, 

346
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,040
as I said, dependence or 
independence. 

347
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,480
And you know, more broadly 
speaking, we adapt to freedom or

348
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,880
slavery. 
Now each one comes with a cost, 

349
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,280
right. 
Freedom and independence is 

350
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,480
messy. 
Like it's, you know, it's it's 

351
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,400
not clean. 
It's not like it's not sterile, 

352
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440
right. 
It's not a you know you can't 

353
00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,720
control everything but you it, 
it is a environment for growth, 

354
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,000
right, like the the jungle where
the things grow the best is the 

355
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,640
least controlled environment, 
right. 

356
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,360
Whereas you know if you want to 
control and sterilize 

357
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,720
everything, sterile by 
definition means dead. 

358
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:20,160
You know you have a environment 
of dependence like everything is

359
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,120
controlled and those 
environments are not conducive 

360
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:25,360
to life. 
So we we have to pick a 

361
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:28,400
direction and that direction 
really matters, you know, in the

362
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,440
same way as, you know, if you're
looking W, if you're facing West

363
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,400
and looking for a sunrise, it's 
just not going to happen, right?

364
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,080
Like it's it's fundamentally 
impossible. 

365
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,480
So, like if you want a society 
that grows, you have to face in 

366
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,520
the direction of growth, 
autonomy, independence, freedom,

367
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,640
etcetera. 
Yeah, it's nice. 

368
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,760
I I what I like is that also 
about Bitcoin to to to link it 

369
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,120
to Bitcoin. 
Like I think Bitcoin really 

370
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,080
shows you that. 
It shows you that there's an 

371
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,640
opportunity to act different in 
your life, maybe take that 

372
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,480
responsibility, right, and be 
more sovereign and the fact that

373
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,840
it actually you even become 
aware of it, right. 

374
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,720
Because I think personally, like
I was very unaware, right. 

375
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,000
In general, I say, you know, if 
you grow up as a millennial in a

376
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,160
Western country, then you're 
probably pretty unaware of how 

377
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,920
you know how else you could live
your life, for example. 

378
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,800
And it's really about, you know,
short term preference or kind of

379
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,840
like the easy choice is hard 
life, Hard choice is easy life, 

380
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,360
right? 
Because what you say about the 

381
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,200
the freedom that that means you 
have to fight in a sense. 

382
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,760
And if you want to be 
complacent, you don't have to 

383
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,120
fight. 
But then like all yourself 

384
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,640
sovereignty, like everything is 
gone, right? 

385
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,800
So there's kind of this, do you 
take the easy path or do you 

386
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,840
take the hard part, hard path. 
But I think in Western societies

387
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,640
in general you you are not 
really, you're not even forced 

388
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,560
to think about that. 
You know if you I thought about 

389
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,440
that actually in the COVID 
times, you know here was pretty 

390
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640
OK. 
But I saw pictures from India, 

391
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:13,560
for example, where people who 
worked in cities had to go back 

392
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,600
to the rural, rural areas that 
they came from, right? 

393
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,920
And there was like 50,000 people
or 100,000 people at the train 

394
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,280
station waiting. 
And I I read all these crazy 

395
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,440
stories about, you know, 
siblings with their dead mother 

396
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,200
on a motorbike for 300 
kilometers. 

397
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,760
I was like, damn, you know, like
this. 

398
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,200
This exists currently in the 
world like these. 

399
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,480
These people have to think about
these things every day, right? 

400
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,640
Because if you don't, if you are
complacent, you know, that could

401
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,080
be the end of your life in 
essence, right? 

402
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,080
And in in a Western country, you
could stay in bed all day and 

403
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:47,560
nothing happens basically, 
right? 

404
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,600
So you're not you're not forced 
to think about it. 

405
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,760
You adapt. 
You adapt to your environment. 

406
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,040
That's what humans are. 
We're adapt. 

407
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,880
We're we're adaptation machines.
And so how can you get to a 

408
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,960
point where you see that other 
option? 

409
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,400
Is that only when you have a 
problem? 

410
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,600
Yeah, I mean the, I think there 
has to be a catalyst and you 

411
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,440
know, each of us, I mean life's 
not smooth for anybody, right? 

412
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,360
We we've all got some sort of 
challenge, some sort of problem,

413
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:23,360
right. 
And you know, you, you know, in 

414
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:26,040
in, in in some way shape or form
life is going to throw you a 

415
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,760
curveball. 
It's going to challenge you and 

416
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,080
it's what you do. 
It's it's, you know, it's a 

417
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,080
classic personal development 
kind of thing, right? 

418
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,400
It's it's not what happens to 
you, it's what you do with it 

419
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,720
that matters. 
You know you can be a victim or 

420
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,160
a victor and you can take 
ownership take responsibility 

421
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:51,040
once again of of the situation 
and you know then do something 

422
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,960
with it. 
So you know fundamentally 

423
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,560
speaking like we, we live in a 
world absent responsibility. 

424
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,200
I've, I've wrote a article a 
couple of years ago called 

425
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,080
responsibility go up technology,
right. 

426
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,880
So everyone talks about NGU and 
I said well look, you know 

427
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,240
that's cool and all it's 
important gets people in. 

428
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,960
But you know you come for the 
NGU, you stay for the RGU, the 

429
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,760
responsibility to go up. 
And you know I kind of framed 

430
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,680
Bitcoin as you know it's most 
important thing is it's not 

431
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,920
freedom money, which I mean it 
is freedom money, but that's not

432
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,640
as important. 
What's more important is that 

433
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,680
it's responsibility money or 
responsible money. 

434
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,920
And you know I've, I've said 
this many times as Bitcoin's 

435
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,920
most important impact on 
civilization is not that it's 

436
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,440
going to help the weak and bank 
down bank. 

437
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,600
No, no, no. 
It's going to relocalize 

438
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,400
economic consequence that is 
more important than anything 

439
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,120
else. 
And and not even just a little 

440
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,120
bit more important like, I'm 
talking fucking orders of 

441
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:46,400
magnets. 
It's the 99% of Bitcoin's 

442
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,400
importance is the relocalization
of economic consequence. 

443
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,440
Every other benefit is the 1% 
doesn't fucking matter like in 

444
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,880
in. 
You mean distributing it across 

445
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,960
the layers again? 
So yeah, I mean. 

446
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,480
From the bottom layer back back 
up. 

447
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,040
What? 
What do you mean by that? 

448
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:09,320
As in the the you said economic.
Localizing economic consequence.

449
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,880
Yeah, exactly. 
So do you mean that in a 

450
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,320
geographical way? 
I was thinking more about the 

451
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:19,000
consequence of the four 
cantillionaires to abuse, you 

452
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,360
know, how money is created. 
It's not there on that low on 

453
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:22,960
that level that's kind of. 
Yeah. 

454
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,440
No, what where I went, what what
I mean specifically is 

455
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:32,200
localizing economic consequence,
meaning that when an individual 

456
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,640
makes a decision inside an 
economy, so an economy is just 

457
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:42,160
made-up of a bunch of actors, 
agents acting, their actions 

458
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,000
have an economic consequence and
that economic consequence should

459
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,760
be paid by the actor, not by 
other actors. 

460
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,120
So that's essentially what I 
mean. 

461
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,240
So the world we live in at the 
moment has zero localization of 

462
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,160
economic consequence. 
Someone can go on print money 

463
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,120
and the consequence is 
distributed amongst everybody. 

464
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,920
So in other words, like if I'm a
central banker, I can play the 

465
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,080
game of I'll jump off a Cliff 
and instead of me dying, Bram 

466
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,480
dies and I jump off a Cliff 
again, and then somebody else 

467
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,720
dies. 
So what does that teach me? 

468
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,960
I can jump off as many cliffs as
I want and somebody else fucking

469
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,720
dies. 
So somebody else is always 

470
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,760
paying the bill. 
Bitcoin will ensure that the 

471
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,680
that consequence localizes. 
Now it's not going to be perfect

472
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,600
because it's impossible to get 
perfection, but the more that 

473
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,000
localizes, the more you get 2 
effects. 

474
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,240
You get positive reinforcement 
for good behavior and you get 

475
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,760
negative reinforcement for bad 
behavior. 

476
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,480
That simultaneously creates a 
corrective mechanism in society,

477
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,600
in civilization, so that the 
good is kept and the bad is 

478
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,760
either corrected or removed. 
That is so important for a 

479
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,080
functional system. 
And that's what Bitcoin does to 

480
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,280
the to the to the world. 
Like, if you like, I'll give you

481
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,520
an analogy, If you lost the pain
receptors in your hand, you 

482
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,720
could put your hand in the fire 
and you could literally burn off

483
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,440
your hand and you wouldn't even 
fucking know. 

484
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,520
And that's the world that we're 
living in at the moment. 

485
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,440
We are eroding our capital base.
We're eroding out the 

486
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,920
civilization that we have and we
don't even know because we just 

487
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,520
keep printing money and we cover
up the losses. 

488
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,840
Yeah. 
And and that's, that's what 

489
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,440
Bitcoin does. 
It makes it makes losses real 

490
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,560
again. 
And that's so important. 

491
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,960
I find it so fascinating that 
it's not like that, right? 

492
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:30,760
I mean, it sounds so simple and 
at the same time I think like, 

493
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,360
why? 
Why is it not like that, right? 

494
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:36,640
But it is maybe also because of 
the human nature that we kind of

495
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,280
just touched upon, right? 
Like if. 

496
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,920
I don't. 
Have to think about it then, 

497
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,800
yeah. 
Why would I question it, right? 

498
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,640
And especially if it just works 
for me and I still don't have to

499
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,120
think about it, right? 
I mean, yeah, so it makes sense.

500
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:56,240
When or how? 
How do we achieve a more like, 

501
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,520
more more of something that's 
really a meritocracy then? 

502
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,640
I mean, like Bitcoin plays a big
factor in that, right? 

503
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,960
So like, you know, we, we can 
have a social revolution, right?

504
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,120
We can have a political 
revolution. 

505
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,440
We can do all this sorts of 
stuff. 

506
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,720
And you know, this has happened 
many, many times throughout 

507
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,440
history, right? 
We've had the the debauchery of 

508
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,680
the currency and you know that 
goes hand in hand. 

509
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,080
Like people say, the root of all
of the problems is the money 

510
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,640
printing, and I disagree with 
that. 

511
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,320
I think the root of all the 
problems starts culturally 

512
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,800
upstream. 
That's where the cancer starts. 

513
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,560
And honestly, it's the 
introduction of concepts such as

514
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,760
equality and democracy, right? 
As soon as we start to make 

515
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,400
things average, we move our gaze
from ascendance and excellence 

516
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,000
to average. 
And average is the first step 

517
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,440
towards death. 
This is Brie Love and I were 

518
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,320
discussing this so. 
So that directionality is really

519
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,720
important now. 
That leads us to inevitably 

520
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,200
printing money, and then 
printing money just accelerates 

521
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,080
the the destabilization and the 
the the debasement of 

522
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,640
civilization, right? 
So what ends up happening is 

523
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,920
civilization falls apart. 
We have a revolution. 

524
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,880
We restart things. 
We're like, OK, now we've got to

525
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,040
do things better. 
We've got to do things 

526
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,560
different. 
And here we go again, right? 

527
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,680
And we enter a new cycle. 
Now, Bitcoin specifically might 

528
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,920
save us from having to repeat 
these cycles over and over again

529
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,280
because it makes it so that 
acceleration point never 

530
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,040
happens. 
And we are in a position where 

531
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,160
it makes like there is a better 
reward for better behavior and 

532
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,160
there is a consequence for poor 
behavior. 

533
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,480
And once you, you know, 
establish that or create that in

534
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,600
a society, you have some 
corrective mechanisms. 

535
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,360
So you know, Bitcoin 
fundamentally is like a really 

536
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,640
key, important part. 
But add to that, and this is, 

537
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,160
this is what my book is about. 
You know, the Bushido of Bitcoin

538
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,640
is what are the virtues, what 
are the principles that we must 

539
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,360
embody, that we must inculcate 
in ourselves, in ourselves 

540
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:13,160
first, It's very important so 
that it becomes a part of our 

541
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,080
culture, so that we have a 
strong culture that actually 

542
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,120
excels on a Bitcoin standard. 
So, so the way you can sort of 

543
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:24,160
think about the peshito is like,
OK, we have a rulebook in the 

544
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,320
current world. 
The rulebook today is get into 

545
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,120
banking, get into fucking tech 
VC. 

546
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,480
Like figure out a way to get 
into politics, central banking, 

547
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,760
whatever. 
Find a way to lie a cheat, 

548
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,840
steal, be cunning, whatever. 
Right now. 

549
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,200
Not everybody does that, but a 
large amount of people do that. 

550
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,640
Or it tells you, you know, the 
rule book is be a fucking 

551
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,080
consumer. 
Just buy shit, you know? 

552
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,000
Or you know, invest, Invest, 
invest, invest, invest, invest, 

553
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,520
invest. 
Right. 

554
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,120
Like, so we, you know the the 
modern playbook is a playbook of

555
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,520
stupidity, right? 
The Bitcoin playbook. 

556
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,600
You know to get ahead on a 
Bitcoin standard, I believe 

557
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,920
you're going to need to have 
principles like justice, like 

558
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:03,240
courage, like loyalty, respect, 
excellence, responsibility, 

559
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,120
compassion. 
Like so. 

560
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,080
So the whole point of the book 
is I said OK, what are the 

561
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,240
principles, virtues we need to 
establish and develop in 

562
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,560
ourselves as individuals. 
So that I believe is the sort of

563
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,720
the two pronged approach. 
Is Bitcoin fundamentally fixed 

564
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,360
the economics and you fix the 
framework for the world, but 

565
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,520
then it's within that framework,
how do you excel? 

566
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,520
And that is by establishing a 
culture of made-up, of 

567
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,800
individuals who have a strong 
set of virtues. 

568
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,440
And then the question is, what 
are those virtues? 

569
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,520
And that was the exact point of 
the damn book, is let's identify

570
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,880
what these are, let's look at 
where they were successful 

571
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,200
throughout history and what we 
can do to bring them forward 

572
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,880
onto a Bitcoin standard. 
Yeah. 

573
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,960
So that's really how we apply. 
I kind of see it like this where

574
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,400
if Bitcoin is the base layer of 
truth, right. 

575
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,080
In that sense, I see Bitcoin as 
like engineer truth. 

576
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,800
If that's always just the truth 
on which we built, then you are 

577
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,080
basically talking about how we 
apply Bitcoin as a tool or how 

578
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:12,840
we use Bitcoin as a tool to to 
build that Bitcoin enabled new 

579
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,240
society based. 
Like how do we apply the tool of

580
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,400
Bitcoin, right? 
Because Bitcoin does force us in

581
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:24,200
a sense to implement this kind 
of reward and punishment system 

582
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,900
as you said, right? 
You can only profit, quote UN 

583
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:33,040
quote, from Bitcoin, right? 
Bitcoin can only give you value 

584
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,240
when when you follow the the 
base set of rules that everyone 

585
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,840
can see, right? 
And if you try to mess with the 

586
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,000
rules, then you won't get 
anything out of it basically, 

587
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,360
right? 
So that that that incentive is 

588
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,560
already built in. 
But you talk about, OK, how do 

589
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,720
we actually integrate that and 
then build together? 

590
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,840
Yes, to A to a degree. 
If I was to rephrase it, I would

591
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,560
say like you're 100% on the 
right track. 

592
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,720
There's these principles that 
make Bitcoin special. 

593
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,480
And then how do we take those 
principles and use Bitcoin to 

594
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,360
then establish a better society?
I I would say we will succeed 

595
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:07,960
when we've forgotten all about 
Bitcoin. 

596
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,960
So when Bitcoin kind of 
dissolves into the background 

597
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,840
and nobody like you and me are 
not writing Bitcoin books 

598
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,680
anymore, not doing podcasts, 
nobody gives a fuck because you 

599
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,720
know, like, do you, do you see 
people today doing a podcast on 

600
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,960
the Internet? 
Like, it's just the Internet, 

601
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,200
right? 
Like we'll use it. 

602
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,240
So when when we stop talking 
about Bitcoin, that's when we 

603
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,120
know it will have succeeded 
because it becomes this 

604
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,320
framework. 
And then it's less about using 

605
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,560
Bitcoin. 
It's more about, as I said, 

606
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:41,600
cultural principles that operate
best on the framework that 

607
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,400
Bitcoin establishes, the socio 
economic framework. 

608
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,080
Would you define that as some 
sort of Age of enlightenment in 

609
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,160
a sense then? 
Yeah, you could call it that. 

610
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,960
You know, I think it's 
definitely a new age. 

611
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,600
I mean, this is where we can tie
it to some of the stuff that 

612
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,680
I've written about Nietzsche, 
right? 

613
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,040
So Nietzsche, you know, 150 
years ago predicted, he said, 

614
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,720
you know, and he did this at a 
time when the Western 

615
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,800
civilization was at its peak. 
Like, you know, you had Germany,

616
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,240
like, you know, Wagner, like, 
you know, Europe was winning big

617
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,880
time, right? 
Like it was the peak of 

618
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,400
civilization, he said. 
You know, while you idiots are 

619
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,360
all partying, I'm telling you 
that civilization is going to 

620
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:21,840
fall apart. 
People like, you're fucking 

621
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,200
crazy. 
What are you talking about? 

622
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,240
And his whole point was we are 
letting in these ideas of 

623
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,440
equalitarianism, of average, of,
you know, democratic thinking. 

624
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,440
We are, we are shifting our gaze
from excellence and what's going

625
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:34,680
to happen? 
And he said it's going to take 

626
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,920
many, many generations. 
It's going to take a hundred, 

627
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,360
200 years, but we're going to 
enter the age of what he called 

628
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,280
the last man. 
And, you know, millennials, You 

629
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,720
know, today we might understand 
this last man concept as the MPC

630
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,400
or the lemming, right? 
Or the masses. 

631
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,400
And he said, you know, we're 
going to enter this age of this,

632
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,480
this cynical person who wants to
just tear down everything that's

633
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,600
beautiful and turn it all into 
rubble. 

634
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:02,200
But he said also from that age, 
from that time, a new archetype 

635
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,400
of person will rise. 
And he called it the Ubermensch.

636
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,920
You know, the Overman. 
And, you know, I write about 

637
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,560
this in my latest piece on the 
Bitcoin Times. 

638
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,520
I call it Uber Money. 
And I say that. 

639
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,720
You know what Nietzsche was 
essentially missing was this 

640
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,640
framework of excellence, which 
is a praxeological framework, 

641
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,320
which is a monetary network, 
which is Bitcoin enables, 

642
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,400
establishes a framework for that
kind of an age to rise up. 

643
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,920
But that age will only rise up 
from an age of complete 

644
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,360
shamelessness and debauchery and
stupidity. 

645
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,200
So, so we're kind of at that 
point now. 

646
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,400
I don't know how bad clown world
is going to get. 

647
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,440
It's probably going to get worse
before it gets better. 

648
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,680
Even worse. 
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's 

649
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,520
going to get worse, but from 
that will rise. 

650
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,800
What you're kind of thinking of 
this Age of Enlightenment or the

651
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:52,120
age of, you know, the the the 
early stages of the Ubermensch, 

652
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:57,480
the age of the Ubermensch. 
So the Ubermensch needs this 

653
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,040
Uber money. 
I also saw you talk about 

654
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,840
Bitcoin as energy money, but 
it's kind of you. 

655
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,280
You combine these Nietzsche 
ideas and Bitcoin. 

656
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,120
Can you share a bit about that? 
Like, how do you end up with 

657
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:15,080
Uber money or energy? 
Money, I mean energy, money, if 

658
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,280
anyone's ever listened to your 
stuff, sailor stuff, whatever, 

659
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,360
they'll sort of understand, 
right? 

660
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,159
Bitcoin is conservatively sound,
right? 

661
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:23,880
You can't print more of it. 
You can't create more of it. 

662
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,600
It's, you know, it's fixed in 
supply, blah, blah, which what 

663
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,199
what it mimics is essentially 
energy. 

664
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:29,840
You can't create energy, you 
can't destroy it. 

665
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,760
All you can do is transform it 
and you know, transmit it, 

666
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,199
right. 
You can harvest it, harness 

667
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:35,880
that, that. 
You're not creating anything. 

668
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,199
So. 
So Bitcoin kind of shares that 

669
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:40,199
relationship. 
And you know, physicists call 

670
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,719
energy the currency of the 
universe because in many ways 

671
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,639
everything is made-up of that. 
So, you know, Bitcoin is a 

672
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,199
currency, right? 
Like, that's what it does. 

673
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:53,400
And it, you know, allows you to 
transmit time and energy over 

674
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,400
space and all this sort of stuff
that, you know, we've heard 

675
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,880
sailor talk about millions of 
times. 

676
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,200
The the point here is that you 
know it. 

677
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,960
It's not to to say literally 
speaking that Bitcoin is energy 

678
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,840
money, but metaphorically that 
is a powerful metaphor and it 

679
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,360
and it works. 
So I then relate that to this 

680
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,120
idea of Uber money, which is OK.
If you have an energetically 

681
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,160
conservative money something 
that you can't corrupt, then you

682
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,080
have that framework. 
Like I I said this on a recent 

683
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,520
podcast, I said if reality could
be defined as that which is 

684
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:32,120
irreversible, then Bitcoin is 
the real estate money we've ever

685
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,320
had. 
Because Bitcoin is irreversible,

686
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,560
right. 
And that kind of a framework 

687
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,960
establishes a need for 
excellence. 

688
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,160
And excellence is the pathway to
the Ubermensch. 

689
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,240
Like excellence over 
generations, you have to breed 

690
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,400
the Ubermensch. 
That gives you an anchor. 

691
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,840
That gives you an anchor point 
in the future, right? 

692
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,360
Like, that's what I meant with 
engineer truth. 

693
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,960
I think we say the same, right? 
It's irreversible. 

694
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:12,080
So it just is in a sense like 
time is right and we can prove 

695
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,000
that it is because you know, we 
have all the validators and all 

696
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,760
the code. 
It said like it's it's so 

697
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,360
transparent that you can prove 
that it just is. 

698
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,560
And yeah, once you accept that, 
then you can set an anchor point

699
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,880
in the future because you know 
that what you are operating on 

700
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,080
is truth in a sense. 
And so you can head towards that

701
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,040
direction. 
So does that make sense? 

702
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,200
That's kind of how I created in 
my mind. 

703
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:44,440
There, yeah, you can use it as a
magnet or a catalyst either way,

704
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,400
right? 
So a catalyst pushes it, or a 

705
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,840
magnet attracts, and it's some 
mix of both. 

706
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,760
Yeah. 
And so you talk about these 

707
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,760
ideas in this new edition of the
Bitcoin Times. 

708
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,000
I think I said it correctly. 
It's a limited once a year. 

709
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,280
Magazine. 
You nailed it, right? 

710
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,440
You nailed it. 
It's the 6th, 6th edition. 

711
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,920
Yes. 
Why do you focus on energy now? 

712
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,600
What's what's the? 
Yeah, the relationship between 

713
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,480
Bitcoin and energy. 
I think you just mentioned it. 

714
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,600
Why now about energy? 
Yeah. 

715
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,680
So I mean the each year is a 
different theme, right. 

716
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,880
So last, the, sorry, not last 
year, but the year before we 

717
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,360
did. 
The Austrian edition, you know, 

718
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,040
the one before that was kind of 
like a futuristic edition called

719
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,360
The New Hope. 
The one before that was the 

720
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,240
Promethean edition. 
The one before that was the 

721
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:35,040
sovereignty and sorry, 
sovereignty edition. 

722
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,920
So like, each one has a theme. 
And last year there was just 

723
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,480
this growing noise around like 
energy, FUD, climate 

724
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,360
catastrophers. 
The world's going to fucking 

725
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,480
end. 
We're going to boil the oceans, 

726
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,480
you know, everything's going to 
die. 

727
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Like, you know, we're boiling in
Europe at 36°. 

728
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,520
I was like, I grew up in 
Australia like normal summer Day

729
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,800
was 45, none of us boiled. 
When I was younger, 36° or 32 

730
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,960
was like a yellow on the map and
now it was like a super dark 

731
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,840
red, which is fascinating to 
see, yeah. 

732
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,200
So, you know, I just got sick of
all that garbage and I was like,

733
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,600
man, you know, let's, let's do 
the energy edition. 

734
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:20,440
Let's let's write about this and
there's six obviously fantastic 

735
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,480
writers in there. 
Parker Lewis did the foreword 

736
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,280
Andrew Myers, who's doing 
incredible work with a company 

737
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,920
called Satoshi Energy. 
He's like linking up large scale

738
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,320
energy producers with with the 
Lightning Network and enabling 

739
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,880
them to price their energy in 
real time and sets. 

740
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,120
There's Gideon Powell who's 
comes from a oil and gas 

741
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,600
background. 
His dad was one of the early 

742
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,240
wildcatters out of Texas. 
He writes this incredible piece 

743
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:47,400
on human ingenuity. 
And like he he quotes this guy 

744
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,160
called Julian Simon who has a 
fascinating economic take, which

745
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,800
he says there's no such thing as
finite resources. 

746
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,760
So the only thing that's finite 
is human ingenuity. 

747
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,360
So, like, we're we're not 
running out of molecules, we're 

748
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,960
not running out of atoms. 
Like, you know, there's an 

749
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,440
infinite amount of those. 
What we're running out of is 

750
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,080
ideas and capacity to be 
ingenious, right? 

751
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,240
So like, that's the only 
limiting factor. 

752
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,160
We're never going to run out of 
oil molecules. 

753
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,080
They're all there. 
Carbon atoms are all there. 

754
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,400
So it's our capacity to extract 
that. 

755
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:25,080
So he does a piece, Brian Git, 
who's a, he's kind of like of 

756
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,840
the Alex Epstein sort of crowd. 
He did a fantastic piece on 

757
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,320
nuclear and how that can solve a
bunch of problems from modern 

758
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,320
computing. 
There was Drew Armstrong. 

759
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,080
We did a really deep piece, like
if people like stuff from like 

760
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,720
GG and, you know, really deep 
thinking about physics and like 

761
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:45,120
the nature of existence. 
He did one called on entropy. 

762
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,640
And then yeah, I did a piece 
that kind of explores this 

763
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,360
relationship between energy, 
Bitcoin excellence and 

764
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,560
Nietzsche's ideas. 
And, you know, it's it's quite 

765
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,840
philosophical, you know, it'll 
get people fired up. 

766
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,400
But yeah, it's a it's a 
different. 

767
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,920
Different angles. 
So we we do this once a year. 

768
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,720
These essays are purely 
published for the Bitcoin Times.

769
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,280
People can buy it as a 
collectible if they want. 

770
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,000
They can read the essays online 
for free on our sub stack. 

771
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,880
And this year I'm also going to 
launch Amazon paperback edition.

772
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,240
So that way it's cheap like 
because the collectible, the 

773
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,200
collectible is expensive like 
it's about 100 bucks a pop, 100 

774
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,320
bucks a copy. 
But it's like it's it's priced 

775
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,160
in sets and there's only 2100 
printed and they've got a code 

776
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,120
on the back. 
So like actually for people 

777
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:41,760
listening, I'll show them one. 
So I obviously have #1 of 2100 

778
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,760
and you know the the set, so 
that's this is edition. 

779
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,560
So that's three, this is 4. 
So that's one of 2100. 

780
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,680
So yeah, people can pick that up
or you know the the Amazon 

781
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,000
edition when it comes out. 
But yeah, the idea is like 

782
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,400
timeless, beautiful content that
will inspire people, make them 

783
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,000
think and and give them what 
they need to understand about 

784
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,160
Bitcoin. 
Yeah. 

785
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,960
And I think you just touched 
upon it the, the subject of 

786
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,920
abundance of energy and and why 
it's so important, is that what 

787
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:21,120
you mentioned with regards to, 
yeah, we have all these, we have

788
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,560
all these building blocks. 
In essence, there's no finite 

789
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:29,040
supply. 
Now now that we're talking about

790
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,120
something like is is just the 
idea of there's finite resources

791
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,080
and thus it's all going very 
bad. 

792
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,720
Is isn't that just like a prime 
example of like the the downward

793
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:42,520
thinking that you? 
That. 

794
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,000
You mentioned before, right? 
It's like, Oh my God, I I cannot

795
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,200
do anything. 
I someone else has to do 

796
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,040
something or the earth has to 
change whatever it's doing and 

797
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,440
then I'm safe, right? 
This is kind of the the apathy. 

798
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,560
Yeah, it's the it's the victim. 
It's the victim. 

799
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,200
And apathy is a great word. 
Like it is the apathetic victim 

800
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,160
mindset that is like you know 
that that is the cancer that is 

801
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,920
destroying the world. 
Like the the the cancer of the 

802
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,040
world is not fucking climate 
change. 

803
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:18,560
The cancer of the world is, you 
know, this brain dead idea that 

804
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,360
we are powerless to do anything 
about it. 

805
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,440
Not the case. 
Again, could stem from the fact 

806
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,360
that if we place ourselves 
outside of nature, then 

807
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,760
obviously we would end up at 
this place. 

808
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,000
Yeah. 
I mean, we do need to 

809
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,000
understand, like there's a link 
to nature, but we are, I think 

810
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,640
in many ways the Apex 
manifestation of nature. 

811
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,760
So we need to remember that too.
So, So there's some people who 

812
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,080
are like, oh, you know, nature 
is everything. 

813
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,800
And, you know, like humans are 
insignificant, right? 

814
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,840
No, we are significant. 
We are definitely like, we are 

815
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,960
both a part of nature. 
But like if you think about it 

816
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,560
like this, it's like life, you 
know, so, so you've got energy 

817
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,320
then life is kind of the, you 
know, the hand reaching out. 

818
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,560
And you know human beings are 
like the fingertips like we we 

819
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,320
are the very, we are the very 
tip of life. 

820
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,960
We are, we are the the, the 
highest most complex, most, you 

821
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,120
know, sophisticated 
manifestation of life which 

822
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,480
itself is the highest, most 
ordered sophisticated 

823
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,360
manifestation of energy. 
And you know, energy is the 

824
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,600
thing, it's the substance, 
right, that that that animates 

825
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,960
everything. 
So like we we need to recognize 

826
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,440
that and you know, we need to 
live with that. 

827
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,680
So that doesn't mean we 
disconnect ourselves from 

828
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,360
nature. 
We we are a part of it. 

829
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,200
But we we need to understand 
that we are creators, We build, 

830
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,080
we produce, we create. 
And you know, we we, you know, 

831
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,520
if, I mean if you take a loser's
mentality, don't don't be 

832
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,360
surprised that you fucking lose,
right. 

833
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,040
Right. 
So you need to. 

834
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,800
I agree. 
Yeah, 1 + 1 = 2, you know. 

835
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,360
Yeah, and you just, you just 
mentioned like the ingenuity. 

836
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,600
How how does human ingenuity 
play in the context of of 

837
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,000
Bitcoin and energy? 
I mean, there's so many examples

838
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:14,160
already of people, you know, 
capturing methane and optimizing

839
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,840
grids and all these things like 
what are, what are your thoughts

840
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,720
there? 
Yeah, I mean, it's it's 

841
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:23,120
incredible like, you know, like 
just just the things that human 

842
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,400
beings can come up with, like 
both stupid and intelligent is 

843
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,560
like beyond, you know, you'll 
never be able to put a cap on 

844
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,320
it, right? 
Like, that's human ingenuity. 

845
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,320
We come up with things AI can 
never do that. 

846
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,280
Like we are, we are 
fundamentally creators, 

847
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,440
creative. 
And the things we'll come up 

848
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:46,840
with the the gaps will close. 
Fascinating. 

849
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:51,040
And as you said, like down to 
things like, OK, there's we 

850
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,280
flare gas. 
So let's put a Bitcoin. 

851
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,680
I mean actually one interesting 
one that I saw a little while 

852
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,920
ago was this spa in New York. 
They, you know, they have heated

853
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,680
pools. 
So what they've done is they've 

854
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,760
got these, you know, miners that
are immersed in liquid and that 

855
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,120
liquid heats the water and then,
you know, they run the spa, the,

856
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,080
the, the heated pools and the 
heated water in the spa comes 

857
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,880
from the miners. 
Brilliant. 

858
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,280
Absolutely fucking brilliant. 
Like I looked at that. 

859
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,400
I was like, damn, I want to do 
that. 

860
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,760
I literally want to build that 
in my own house so that I have a

861
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,880
hot tub and it's powered by 
miners. 

862
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,440
Like, brilliant. 
Most of all it's just really 

863
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,760
cool. 
But yeah, it's it's, it's funny 

864
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,320
how how stupid and brilliance 
is. 

865
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,400
Have you ever read the Kibalium?
You know that like about the 

866
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,080
hermetic principles, like as 
above, so below, as below, so 

867
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,400
above, like the like. 
It's about these universal 

868
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,480
principles. 
But they say like, like there's 

869
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,920
a Law of polarity as well. 
And it's like like brilliance 

870
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,520
and stupidity is not, it's the 
same thing. 

871
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,120
It's just a different intensity 
of the same thing, right? 

872
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,720
Like calling colds or or or 
light and dark, right. 

873
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,480
And well, sometimes also really 
stupid And sip ideas actually 

874
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,840
are pretty brilliant, right? 
Yeah. 

875
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,360
Yeah, yeah. 
It's like excitement, anxiety, 

876
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,760
right? 
It's like, it's like, exactly, 

877
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,800
they're they're shades of each 
other, right? 

878
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:11,480
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

879
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:12,880
Yeah. 
Oh, shade, that's a that's. 

880
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,760
That's a better word. 
Yeah. 

881
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:17,120
Yeah. 
And so do you also talk about 

882
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:22,000
like the environmental concerns 
or at least what what people 

883
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,400
talk about? 
When they? 

884
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,880
Talk about Bitcoin. 
Yeah, Marty Bent did a whole 

885
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,040
piece on that. 
I forgot to mention him, 

886
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:28,840
actually. 
So he, he did a piece on that 

887
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,600
where he basically debunks the 
whole ESG narrative and all that

888
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:33,640
sort of stuff. 
It's fantastic. 

889
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,760
He uses Germany as a great 
example of, you know, of a 

890
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,240
country who on paper has 
increased their energy capacity,

891
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,200
you know, with all of the 
renewable energy crap that 

892
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,760
they're doing. 
But in reality, they actually 

893
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:53,080
haven't, that they've, I think 
they're on paper, energy 

894
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,920
capacity is double or triple 
what it used to be like 20 years

895
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:04,560
ago, but the real difference in 
energy use is only up 2%, which 

896
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,720
means, like, that's the maximum 
they can actually use out of it.

897
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:09,880
So it's like it just shows like 
the the, the, the lie. 

898
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,440
And his whole essay is built 
around this idea of it's time to

899
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,920
come back to reality like we've 
just been lying to ourselves. 

900
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,520
And if we continue lying to us, 
oh, something's going to break 

901
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:18,640
and it's going to be 
catastrophic. 

902
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,720
Yeah. 
And so if we talk about the 

903
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,720
Uncommunist Manifesto and 
Bitcoin, and we talked about 

904
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,280
meritocracy, I also wanted to 
ask you if if there's an ideal 

905
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,720
society and there is a 
meritocracy and we have this 

906
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:37,960
dynamic inequality, is then 
capitalism the system? 

907
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,200
Or like, how? 
How do you view that? 

908
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:45,200
Is is that the most fair type of
system than you could use? 

909
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,040
Or is is there something else? 
Pretty much like I think you 

910
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,880
can. 
So in the book we boiled down 

911
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,040
capitalism to not a political 
modality but a natural process, 

912
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,000
right. 
So if you look at, if you define

913
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,560
what capital is, capital is 
things and stuff, right? 

914
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,440
So there's there's kind of three
forms of primary capital. 

915
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,080
You can call it time, energy, 
natural resources, right. 

916
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,200
And you know, what we do as 
human beings, as as a living 

917
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,840
species is we take these 
building blocks and we try to 

918
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,280
use them as efficiently and as 
effectively as possible. 

919
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,080
So that is by definition the 
process of capitalism, right? 

920
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,280
Like if you take your capital 
and you use it as efficiently, 

921
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,560
as effectively as possible, 
that's just fucking normal. 

922
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,960
Like, right, You know, that's 
not a political thing. 

923
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,640
It's nothing fancy. 
It's just like all living things

924
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,000
are performing this natural 
process. 

925
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,360
Of capital, about a squirrel and
and like him collecting all the 

926
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,160
food for the winter, It's 
basically that. 

927
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,000
Yeah, he's doing capitalism, 
right? 

928
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,280
So yeah, so, so that's. 
So that's like the process of 

929
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,360
capitalism, right? 
Doing stuff with capitalism. 

930
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,720
Then you have the political 
thing, right? 

931
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:55,360
And the political, like, you 
know, if we know that capitalism

932
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,960
is a process, works using things
and stuff, energy, resources, 

933
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,200
time as efficiently and 
effectively as possible, then it

934
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,000
would make sense to build some 
sort of political model, you 

935
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,960
know, or political process or 
political format or structure or

936
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,200
governance system, whatever you 
want to call it, that as closely

937
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,840
as possible either emulates or 
enables that natural capitalist 

938
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,360
process to occur. 
And if you want to call that 

939
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,000
political system capitalism, 
sure, that's fine. 

940
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,400
You know, we can call it 
capitalism, the process, 

941
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,520
capitalism, the politics, right?
That's fine. 

942
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,920
You know, I don't think we can 
ever build a political model 

943
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,080
that is purely capitalistic as 
so, as, as, as close as possible

944
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,680
to the process, right? 
Because by, you know, when you 

945
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:45,280
build a, you know, a social 
process, you by definition have 

946
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,640
a layer on. 
It's kind of like the map and 

947
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,520
the territory, right? 
The map will never 100% 

948
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,320
represent the territory, but it 
can get close. 

949
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:54,000
So what you want to do from a 
political governance standpoint 

950
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,720
is you want to build something 
that as closely as possible 

951
00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:01,800
resembles the capitalistic 
process. 

952
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,720
And you know, Bitcoin goes a 
long way to this. 

953
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:07,840
And let's tie it back to what we
discussed earlier is Bitcoin is 

954
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,680
the real estate money because 
you can't reverse it. 

955
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,480
You can't, you know, so it 
localizes economic consequence. 

956
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,480
So therefore you have a system 
where you are fundamentally 

957
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,120
incentivized to use your 
capital, Bitcoin as efficiently 

958
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,640
and effectively as possible. 
So. 

959
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,520
So it kind of that ties 
everything. 

960
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,640
'S a good deal, yeah, yeah. 
And also to earn it or play a 

961
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,680
part of allocating that capital,
you are incentivized to not be a

962
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,840
tourist, right? 
As a lot of people are tourists 

963
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,040
in jobs or, you know, stuff like
that. 

964
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:46,240
So you have to add value to 
create value, to capture value 

965
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:48,000
or something like that, right. 
Like you. 

966
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:52,600
Yeah, it's forced. 
It's a forced incentive in a in,

967
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:57,160
in a sense interesting. 
So how do you see if we combine 

968
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,600
these things like on communists,
we're talking about energy, Like

969
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,760
how do you see the future for 
Bitcoin and and the application 

970
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,920
in the world? 
I mean, it's very bright. 

971
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,440
Like it's going to continue on. 
Like I wrote a in fact, I'll see

972
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,120
if I can find the passage here 
quickly that I was just, I was 

973
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:22,640
writing a section for the the 
Bushido of Bitcoin, which kind 

974
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,760
of just basically summarizes why
people should have Bitcoin. 

975
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,480
So I'll just read it, I said. 
All that being said, but don't 

976
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,280
be stupid. 
Betting against Bitcoin is quite

977
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,360
possibly the dumbest social and 
economic decision you could 

978
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,400
possibly make. 
Doubly so if you have agreed 

979
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,040
with the rest of this book and 
want to work towards A making 

980
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,640
the world a better, more 
beautiful ascended place and B 

981
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,240
if you want to have a lineage 
that lives on to benefit from 

982
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:49,880
that world, ignoring it is not 
far behind. 

983
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,240
So if you do not hold Bitcoin, 
and when I say hold, I mean 

984
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:56,000
actually hold it not some ETF 
for instrument, you should 

985
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,880
change that now. 
So like, you know, my my message

986
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:04,320
there is basically like, you 
know, don't be stupid, quit 

987
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,600
ignoring it. 
You know Bitcoin's going to 

988
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:11,000
continue to grow. 
It's not just a technology that,

989
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,760
you know, these Myspace idiots 
say it's like, Oh yeah, 

990
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:14,800
Bitcoin's all technology. 
No. 

991
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,240
Bitcoin is a socio economic, 
technological socio economic 

992
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,960
phenomenon. 
It's all of these things 

993
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,800
combined. 
Like creating a new money takes 

994
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,040
centuries, naturally speaking, 
and so Bitcoin, Bitcoin's gonna 

995
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,760
compress that in a short period 
of time and if you're sleeping 

996
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:33,840
on it. 
Because it's technology, 

997
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,040
basically. 
Well, because we live in a 

998
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,560
digital and technological world 
and because it, it interfaces so

999
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,520
well with that, right. 
And you know, that just means 

1000
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,200
it's going to, it's going to 
grow at a much faster rate 

1001
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,440
because it's not a physical 
object, but it has a 

1002
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,400
relationship to the physical 
world through energy. 

1003
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,600
So it's like this beautiful, 
like elegant blend of all of 

1004
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,480
these things. 
And yeah, to to sort of sum up 

1005
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,680
that line of thought and to 
finish this up, it's, you know, 

1006
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:07,200
sleeping on Bitcoin, ignoring it
or betting against it. 

1007
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,080
They're all just dumb decisions.
So don't be stupid. 

1008
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,080
Get some Bitcoin, learn about it
and, you know, make your life 

1009
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,680
better. 
Heard American Huddle. 

1010
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,400
There was a video of him where 
he talks about, you know, 

1011
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,440
adopting Bitcoin is self love, 
right? 

1012
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:22,480
And basically. 
What you just? 

1013
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,320
Said like if you, if you ignore 
it space, you basically hate 

1014
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,600
yourself. 
And I it's so funny when I hear 

1015
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,360
myself say these things, right. 
Like if I think about like five 

1016
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:32,840
years ago I was already into 
Bitcoin. 

1017
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,480
I never thought like oh these 
are really things I'm going to 

1018
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,760
say and believe. 
But like I'm there, you know, 

1019
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,280
like it's so funny. 
But I in general I think that's 

1020
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,240
what Bitcoin makes you do like 
once you see it, it's really you

1021
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:48,520
cannot Unsee it and and you are 
also you feel incentivized. 

1022
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,200
I think that's the best that's 
that's a good word to also do 

1023
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,200
the contribution right. 
Like that's why I started the 

1024
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,240
podcast. 
That's why you're writing it's 

1025
00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:00,840
it's a mutually beneficial game 
instead of a 0 sum exercise with

1026
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,080
you know some random people that
you don't even like. 

1027
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,600
You know it's feel it's way more
than technology. 

1028
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,520
I love that you said that. 
Awesome, man. 

1029
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,640
Well then I'd love to wrap up 
with my last question that I ask

1030
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,720
everyone. 
And that's what's a core belief 

1031
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,600
that you will never let go. 
I know. 

1032
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:22,880
No, because I have many, that's 
why. 

1033
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:29,600
All right. 
I think the OK, let's let's just

1034
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,640
pepper this one in. 
I think the opposite to 

1035
00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:41,480
communism is beauty, and I think
this is poorly understood. 

1036
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,080
But you know, beauty is 
ascendant. 

1037
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,840
Beauty is the ultimate low time 
preference pursuit. 

1038
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:55,520
It takes time, effort, energy, 
sacrifice, courage, duty, 

1039
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,160
loyalty, respect, justice. 
All of these, the all of the 

1040
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:04,400
greatest virtues combined, 
required in order to build, 

1041
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,040
produce, create something 
beautiful. 

1042
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,000
And I think it's the highest 
pursuit. 

1043
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:15,880
It's right up there with the 
concept of the ineffable or God,

1044
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,000
right. 
So beauty for me is the opposite

1045
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,280
of communism because communism 
represents everything that is 

1046
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,440
ugly, everything that is death, 
dying and decaying. 

1047
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,440
So yeah, I encourage people to 
think deeply about that one 

1048
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,600
because, you know, most people 
tell you the opposite of 

1049
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,440
communism is capitalism, which, 
you know it is. 

1050
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,480
But you know, fundamentally 
speaking the the, the thing that

1051
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,280
the thread that runs through 
that is beauty. 

1052
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,640
Yeah, love that, man. 
I think that's a great ender. 

1053
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,520
I'll make sure to link to your 
social your website. 

1054
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,680
We didn't even talk about 
Spirits of Satoshi. 

1055
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,800
Maybe next time, but I think 
that's very, very cool 

1056
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,920
Experiment. 
So I would definitely encourage 

1057
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,680
people to to check that out. 
And yeah, thanks so much for 

1058
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,320
coming on, man. 
Thank you my friend, really 

1059
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,680
appreciate it. 
Cheers. 

1060
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,840
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, it would be amazing 

1061
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,680
if you could rate, review and 
subscribe on the podcast 

1062
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,600
platform of your choice. 
It will help us educate more 

1063
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,720
millennials on the importance of
Bitcoin. 

1064
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:13,760
You can follow and connect with 
me on Twitter. 

1065
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,240
I'm Bram K That's at BR AM K, 
and if you are or know someone 

1066
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:20,280
who has an interesting 
perspective on Bitcoin that's 

1067
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,320
worth sharing, hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1068
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,200
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1069
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,880
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1070
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:28,480
Thanks for listening. 
Bye.