1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,480 All right. Hey everyone, this is from 2 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:03,960 Konstein and you're listening to Bitcoin for Millennials. 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Together with my guests on this podcast, I go on a journey to 4 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:08,880 discover how our current financial system works, why it's 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,520 flawed, and why Bitcoin is the most relevant technology that 6 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,000 you, my fellow millennials, should understand and adopt. 7 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,400 In this episode, I'm joined by Samson Mao. 8 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,320 He's the CEO of Gentry, a Bitcoin technology company 9 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,640 focused on accelerating hyper bitcoinization. 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,240 He's best known for his work with El Salvador's Bitcoin 11 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:26,920 initiatives and his efforts in nation state Bitcoin adoption 12 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,280 around the world. As as one of the top executives 13 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,080 in the Bitcoin ecosystem is expertise spans from running one 14 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,040 of the largest exchanges and mining pools to guiding the 15 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,480 development and deployment of Bitcoin infrastructure as the 16 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:40,360 CSO of Blockstream. In the past weeks, he has also 17 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,480 been talking a lot about the Bitcoin Omega candle, which I 18 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:46,640 think we'll definitely talk about and the road to Bitcoin 19 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,360 being worth $1 million. Yeah, I'm super excited to talk 20 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:51,080 to you man. Welcome. 21 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,160 Yeah, thanks from. It's good to be on. 22 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,200 Yeah, we've been. We've been in touch on Twitter. 23 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,320 It's one of the things I really love about the Bitcoin space is 24 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,000 that everyone is so approachable. 25 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,800 You know, it doesn't really matter on how long people have 26 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,240 been in the space. Like everyone is just really 27 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,000 passionate about about what this thing could be. 28 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,560 So yeah, it's just fun to to talk on Twitter. 29 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,640 And now, And now we're here, we're going to talk about Gen. 30 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,520 3, about the Omega candle that you tweeted about. 31 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,240 But first I wanted to ask you, how did you discover Bitcoin and 32 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,400 what made you not get it initially? 33 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,240 Let me think, Well, I guess the question is what do you mean by 34 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,560 discover? So I first saw Bitcoin just 35 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,160 reading the news. I used to be a very prolific 36 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,680 reader of RSS feeds and news aggregator. 37 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,880 So I would try to read all the news all the time. 38 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,640 And I think, you know, in 20, 10, maybe I saw Bitcoin come up 39 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,240 and the narrative was bitcoins used by criminals and buying 40 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,400 drugs and it's gambling money, etcetera. 41 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:57,880 So I didn't pay too much attention to it. 42 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,920 It just came up. But I think a few years later I 43 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,880 read an article about Bitcoin mining and that was when I 44 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,960 really went down the rabbit hole and started to understand the 45 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,120 inner mechanisms of how Bitcoin works. 46 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,880 Essentially, you look under the hood and there's nobody there. 47 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,320 It's just people running ASICS and you know, GPUs and CPUs back 48 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,440 in the day and mining it. So there's no control switch, 49 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,520 Someone can turn it on and off, no one can modify the the supply 50 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:26,760 or anything. So that was when it really 51 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,160 clicked for me. So was there was there a thing 52 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,800 that made you, like, not get it, or were you instantly hooked? 53 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,400 Well, when I really dug into it, I think that was when I was 54 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,560 really hooked. But before I really got into it, 55 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,240 I it didn't click for me. It just sort of seemed like 56 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,440 another fad or trend. Yeah, just like the easy 57 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,080 dismissal that a lot of people show, I'd say, right? 58 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,520 Like it takes some time to find the threats. 59 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,280 I'd say that personally interests you, right? 60 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,600 Like for you it's mining. For me was more like, you know, 61 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,680 the Internet needs a currency, that angle and other people 62 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,880 really come at it from like the finance angle and stuff like 63 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,080 that. So cool. 64 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:12,160 If someone asks you why is Bitcoin as a concept so big and 65 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,160 important, what's your answer there? 66 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,600 Oh, that's a good question. We like to say as bitcoiners 67 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,320 that Bitcoin fixes this and it applies to a lot of things. 68 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,760 Bitcoin fixes a lot of problems in society. 69 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,400 It fixes inflation. It fixes the basement of 70 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,720 currency. It, it fixes potentially even 71 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,200 bad governance too. So that's why we say it. 72 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,080 It's a it's like a Band-Aid saying. 73 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,000 But the reality is Bitcoin fixes a lot of these things because a 74 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,240 lot of things in the world are based off of our monetary 75 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,760 system. In fact, you can look at human 76 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,280 civilization as a whole is largely based on our ability to 77 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,040 trade with one another and our ability to specialize. 78 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,160 And that ability comes from having this concept or construct 79 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,360 of money where we can trade and exchange our time and value with 80 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,800 one another. So when that whole system 81 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,880 becomes corrupted and it can be manipulated by central banks, 82 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,480 governments, etcetera, then everything breaks down. 83 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,320 And this is what we are seeing in the world today. 84 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,440 And This is why Bitcoin fixes so many things. 85 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,920 So I guess the answer is Bitcoin is important because it fixes A 86 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,200 foundational part of civilization and society. 87 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,760 That's interesting because a lot of people also say, you know, 88 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,080 like everything is downstream from how good the money is, 89 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,440 right? I think that's also what what 90 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:43,920 you're saying here. Why? 91 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Why does it take so long for people to realize that it's so 92 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:53,760 broken? Yeah, we would hope that it 93 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,400 would be faster, but I I think the problem is you're born into 94 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:05,880 a Fiat world and you're educated in a Fiat designed educational 95 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:13,280 system and you're inundated with Fiat doctrine at all times. 96 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,680 And most people in general are very easily distracted too. 97 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,320 So there's a new movie, a new show, and they just want to 98 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,280 consume and watch that. And in general, I think people 99 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:29,280 are just generally more prone to be consumers of things, 100 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:33,760 information, entertainment, products rather than producing, 101 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,200 creating. And and all of this put together 102 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,480 makes it very hard for people to understand that there are 103 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,040 problems in the world and that things are breaking down. 104 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:49,440 Because if you've never known the concept of hard money, like 105 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,800 you know, if you were born in the in the 80s, you know you 106 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,640 were born into a world based off of a Fiat money system that was 107 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,320 not, there was no gold backing at that point, right. 108 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,080 And you grow up and you think that money is in the bank, that 109 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,760 when you see a number on your bank statement that is dollars, 110 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,400 but it's not, it's actually just a fabrication. 111 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:15,480 It's very hard to make that leap back to sound money. 112 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,040 You have to go through a learning process and maybe a lot 113 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,360 of pain dealing with things like inflation. 114 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,880 And then you reach the conclusion that there is 115 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,320 something wrong with the world. So it's sort of like, can you 116 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,800 wake yourself up from the Matrix? 117 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,040 Maybe, maybe you can, but it's also very hard because the 118 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,200 Matrix is all around you. Yeah, it's really that, right. 119 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Like I knew you were going to say matrix or else I would have 120 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,920 said it, right. Like this is a matrix. 121 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,760 Like the the, the number you see on your screen is not real. 122 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,080 Like it's like it's it's like the spoon is not there, right. 123 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,400 There is no spoon, There's no, there's no money. 124 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,640 But you're still seeing, you're still seeing the numbers. 125 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,280 And it's also very comfortable, right, to, well, that's also 126 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:02,960 exactly like in the movie, right, to stay in the Matrix. 127 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,880 As long as you don't think, like what is going on here, then 128 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,240 you're safe and sound. And you know, with the 129 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,720 attractions that we have, Yeah, you don't really have to think 130 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,680 about it, Yeah. Fiat money is like a security 131 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,200 blanket of sorts. You know you can hold it and you 132 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,400 think you're safe, but the reality is it doesn't protect 133 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,160 you from anything. And in fact it might harm you. 134 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,920 But when you take away that security blanket, you're 135 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,360 suddenly thrust into a world of having to take responsibility 136 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,120 for things like, yeah, take responsibility of having custody 137 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,040 of your own money. And this is like an alien 138 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,560 concept, people that grew up putting their money in the bank 139 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,720 to keep it safe. Whereas you know, in the 1900s, 140 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:51,200 maybe, at least you would maybe keep your gold bars and coins in 141 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,000 the safe of your own. So it's just an alien concept 142 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,320 now that I need to take responsibility and I need to 143 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:03,720 keep my own money for myself. Do you ever also experience that 144 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,640 when you talk to people who are new to Bitcoin, this realization 145 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:13,640 of responsibility, like in in my, like, real life circle, I 146 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,880 have a few friends who've done really well and they don't have 147 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,640 any Bitcoin. And one of the conversations I 148 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,200 had was my friend said, well, if I have a million in Bitcoin, do 149 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,920 I have to hold that myself? I said yeah, that's that's the 150 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,760 point. But it was scary to him. 151 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,440 Yeah, I think that definitely is a component of the discussions. 152 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,919 A lot of people just don't want to have custody. 153 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:41,000 So I think as Bitcoiners we're we're kind of, we kind of feel a 154 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,120 bit of disgust towards people that use custodians. 155 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,040 But I I think you might have to rely on that as a a mid step to 156 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,000 getting people to self custody just because the concept of self 157 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,240 custody is so far removed from where they are right now. 158 00:08:56,680 --> 00:08:59,960 Maybe it's OK that they use custodian or a custodial wallet 159 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,360 because you know, the shock to having your own money and being 160 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,280 responsible for, well, thousands, 10s of thousands or 161 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,360 even millions of dollars on your own shoulders is a big thing. 162 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,200 Yeah, I think inducing the realization that no one is 163 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,280 coming to save you, then I think that's kind of like the hardest 164 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,800 thing, right? Like who would voluntarily put 165 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,480 that on themselves? Like that's a bit crazy. 166 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,840 Yeah, well, it has a lot to do with governance as well, like. 167 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,760 But I think one of the problems we have that we have with 168 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,920 governance is people look to the government to save them. 169 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,240 Like, oh, there's a virus. Government saved me. 170 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,640 And then the government behaves almost like a very simplistic 171 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,080 AI. Well, the simplest way to save 172 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,400 you is to lock you in your house, right? 173 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,840 Like, if I want to keep you safe from all harm, I'll I'll lock 174 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,080 you in a jail cell. And then nobody will hurt you 175 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,880 unless you're upsteam. But, you know, the whole concept 176 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:59,280 of the government saving you is sort of a misleading, misleading 177 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:00,720 train of thought that people take. 178 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,040 Because at the end of the day, you have to protect yourself. 179 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,480 You have to do something yourself. 180 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,360 And even taking part in governance like, well, right now 181 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,360 our system is largely democracies. 182 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:14,640 You have to vote. You can't just hope that someone 183 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,480 else will vote. The right people and the power 184 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,760 and that they will save you. You actually need to do a lot of 185 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,960 things in the world. At least you should be. 186 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,560 Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I've I personally find 187 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,920 this like personal journey of people into Bitcoin most 188 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,640 fascinating thing to talk about actually. 189 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,760 Like I think most people can understand the Bitcoin concept 190 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,480 but actually integrating that as part of your world view where 191 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,200 your whole world view is basically based on a matrix like 192 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,920 illusion that's that's like the hardest challenge for people. 193 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,440 I think that that you can open your mind just enough to to see 194 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,720 that other thing and then you know follow the rationale of the 195 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,360 information that you then get. Yeah. 196 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,400 So how we'll get to that about, you know when you talk to to 197 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,200 leaders of nation how, how that goes, I'm super interested to 198 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,840 hear. But first, Gen. 3, what's your 199 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,760 mission and why did you start it? 200 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,520 So the mission of Gen. 3 is to accelerate hyper bitcoinization, 201 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,760 or the point at which we no longer need to go back to Fiat 202 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,960 monies. And it's also helping onboard 203 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,880 countries and getting them onto a Bitcoin standard. 204 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,640 Because our theory is that we will end up on a Bitcoin 205 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,040 standard, but there will be some chaos as we transition into 206 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,720 that. So Fiat monies have to be phased 207 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,720 out, which means you might need parallel systems at some time, 208 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,400 which is a Bitcoin track alongside the Fiat track so 209 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,760 people can gradually move over. Because if it is a very sudden 210 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,080 cataclysmic event, then a lot of people will simply be left out 211 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,320 and will be scrambling to get into it. 212 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:00,600 So we're here to sort of usher in as well as ease that 213 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,720 transition to Bitcoin. And the reason why we're doing 214 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,440 this is because I don't really see that many people out there 215 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,720 doing what we do today engaging with governments and trying to 216 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,960 educate them and work with them. There are a lot of grassroots 217 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,000 movements, but there is also an importance to focus on the top 218 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,280 level adoption because the top level can make it very difficult 219 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,800 for grassroots adoption. If the laws and the regulations 220 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,760 don't make any sense and I think that is the value we bring, We 221 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,480 can show the governments that this is a model for how you 222 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,880 could adopt Bitcoin potentially and you can implement some laws 223 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,520 that will foster these grassroots communities and help 224 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,720 them grow. And I think a good example of 225 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:51,200 this is I saw on on Twitter or X today Javier Millay from 226 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,040 Argentina, the new president of Argentina. 227 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,560 He went to the World Economic Forum and I think he was 228 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:01,400 commenting, you know, it's been corrupted by forces of socialism 229 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,400 and you know I need to go there and bring it back to reality. 230 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,960 And it's it's a similar track to what we are doing. 231 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,240 We are engaging with governments because your your choice is 232 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,520 either to engage or not to engage. 233 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,000 And if you don't engage, I think the problem can snowball and 234 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,880 become worse than if you did engage. 235 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,440 There's almost no downside to engaging with the government. 236 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:26,880 I think we've had some people critique us and say why are you 237 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,680 helping governments get Bitcoin? The whole point is you separate 238 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:32,040 money in state, et cetera, et cetera. 239 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,720 But if we can get the government to adopt Bitcoin or champion the 240 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,720 adoption of Bitcoin. And then you win, of course. 241 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,880 Yeah, that is the separation of money in states. 242 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,760 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know there's a few 243 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,200 ways to approach it. You could hunker down and you 244 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,840 know be anti government and never want to engage and just 245 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,920 you know do your own thing. But the sad reality is the 246 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,920 government could come after you someday. 247 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,680 Just like in Europe they're going after self hosted wallets, 248 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,600 right? If there had been more 249 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,680 engagement, more things like Bitcoin and Bundestag in 250 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,920 Germany, maybe that wouldn't have happened because you can 251 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,880 educate them and educating anybody, regardless if it's like 252 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,600 some no coiner or the government has really no downsides, right? 253 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,200 The worst they'll do is say no, I still hate Bitcoin, but they 254 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,800 can't destroy Bitcoin. They could. 255 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,440 The only the only thing you got might happen is they have less 256 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,320 bad regulation, which in my view is a good thing. 257 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,720 Yeah, Well, but I think also because it's a, it's a personal 258 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,320 journey. Like you're talking to a person, 259 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,320 you're not talking to the entity, the government, you're 260 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,800 talking to a person, right? Actually today I had a had a 261 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,880 discussion with a financial journalist in a Telegram group 262 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,760 that I'm in. And he talked about some opinion 263 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,800 piece that someone wrote in like the Dutch Financial Times and 264 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,080 he's also a reporter there. And I said, you know, like the 265 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,080 words in that piece were like pyramid scheme, Ponzi, blah, 266 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:00,560 blah. So I was like this is, it's just 267 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,320 so disingenuous. Like, I'm just disappointed at 268 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,840 how disingenuous this is, right? And like, if you really 269 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,440 understand this, you would not say this. 270 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,160 And if you don't understand it, why do you pretend to say this, 271 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,400 right, Like the stay humble thing And then this guy replied 272 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,400 like, yeah, but he's right. So what are you talking about? 273 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,880 So then I got a bit into a quarrel with with him. 274 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,520 But then I was just thinking like he and I looked him up, 275 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,080 like he learned about Bitcoin. He's been looking at this for 276 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,920 seven years, right? And so you have people that just 277 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,640 dismiss it because they cannot, I don't know, fathom this whole 278 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,040 ego, ego thing basically, right. So maybe he's lost. 279 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,760 But when you talk to someone, right, the fact that you, you 280 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,160 perfect, you know your pitch and your short explanation etcetera, 281 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,600 like you do put the information in their head, right. 282 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:51,000 So if they are a honest person or an interested person, or you 283 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,680 know they they can challenge themselves just enough, then 284 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,160 perhaps that seed is already enough because you are talking 285 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,600 to a person and not the not the entity. 286 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,720 Yeah, well, at the end of the day, governments are made-up of 287 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,600 people. So you can still engage with 288 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,480 them and talk to them, and you will have difficult people, but 289 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,080 you will have people that are receptive to the idea of Bitcoin 290 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,000 and learning a bit more too. But when we engage with 291 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,720 governments generally, we try not to get into the nuts and 292 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,720 bolts of it. We don't talk too much about 293 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,920 monetary theory and all the things that we just discussed, 294 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,080 right? We focus more on aligning 295 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,360 incentives to Bitcoin as an asset. 296 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,920 And the the baseline of the pitch, if you will, is really 297 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,680 energy is now money because of Bitcoin. 298 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,560 And we did have a little bit of this in the past with oil, 299 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,000 right? You have oil you can put into a 300 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,720 barrel and export it and convert that latent energy into money. 301 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,000 Now you can convert hydro, geothermo. 302 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,280 Any other form of energy that you couldn't put in a barrel now 303 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,880 can be kind of put into this digital barrel as Bitcoin and 304 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,760 sold. So we focus on getting them to 305 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,319 understand that and seeing what they want because it's not about 306 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:08,839 what we want. Of course, we want Bitcoin 307 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,839 adoption, but if you want to convince someone to look at 308 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,400 Bitcoin and understand it, you have to come at it from their 309 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,119 interest. I mean, at the end of the day, 310 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,160 Bitcoin is just a massive tangle of alignment of incentives 311 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,400 between users, minors, businesses and all sorts of 312 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,800 people, right? We're all intertwined in these 313 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,480 different alignments of incentives and interests. 314 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,960 So we try to get them thinking like, what do you need? 315 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,840 You need to build an airport. Do you want more energy 316 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,320 production? You want hydro plants, You want 317 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,080 geothermal plants? And then we see what we can do 318 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,320 and propose ideas or projects that can be done to get them 319 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,960 there using and I think that's the most practical way to go 320 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,720 about this. Yeah, yeah, there was. 321 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,000 This was actually one of the things I wanted to ask, like how 322 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,040 do you peel a orange peel a country leader? 323 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,240 And I heard you say this, this what you just said before, 324 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,240 right? Like that the energy is your 325 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,640 translation, you know, it's the power of your country in a, in a 326 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,960 sense, right. Like if you are lucky that you 327 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:17,040 have a lot of water or geothermal activity or or or 328 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,120 whatnot, right? Like you can finally utilize 329 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:24,480 that in. Yeah, more global way than 330 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,000 localized, no, capturing that energy in a certain village or 331 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,800 whatever, right. Is that then the main thing? 332 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,880 The fact that they can enable more of their like natural 333 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,320 resources? If you can call it, that it. 334 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,400 Depends on what they're interested in. 335 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,520 A lot of countries have excess energy, and Bitcoin can help 336 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,480 them tap it. You can use something like a 337 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,040 Bitcoin bond to raise capital to build those facilities to tap 338 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,000 into that energy. Maybe they have a goal of 339 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,960 reducing emissions or reducing dependency on coal or something 340 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,680 else and or or methane reduction. 341 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,520 So that way we pitch Bitcoin mining as a way to reduce flare 342 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,360 gas which was what we did in Columbia when we met with the 343 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,120 present Petro. So it it really depends on what 344 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,880 they are interested in. Some people, some, some 345 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,400 politicians are interested in banking the unbanked or reducing 346 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,440 inequity and we say, well, Bitcoin can do that. 347 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,360 You can just give someone a wallet like the Aqua wallet, 348 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,960 which is what we've launched recently. 349 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,720 And yeah, you know, they can onboard and access the financial 350 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,080 system through Bitcoin without having to rely on banks to 351 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,360 onboard people. So it really depends on what 352 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,200 they're interested in and I think that is our key focus. 353 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,840 We don't go in there saying you need to adopt Bitcoin because 354 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,240 it's the future of the financial system. 355 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,080 It fixes a lot of things. And yeah, money is broken. 356 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,560 That's just the wrong, wrong way to go about it. 357 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,080 And it's off putting people like, it's like danking them out 358 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,560 of the matrix by their, yeah, their shirt collar, right. 359 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,440 It's better to go in and say like, well, what are the 360 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,600 problems you're having in the Matrix today and well, maybe we 361 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,560 can fix that with this thing over here. 362 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,720 Fairpoint, good point. So you just mentioned the Aqua 363 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,200 wallets you you recently launched this last week or or 364 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,000 two weeks ago I believe. Can you share a bit about that? 365 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,640 Of course, January 3rd, yeah. Yeah, it's getting close to two 366 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:31,320 weeks now. So Aqua is a Bitcoin wallet and 367 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,200 layer two wallet. So we have Bitcoin in there as 368 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,120 well as Liquid and lightning and potentially down the road we'll 369 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:43,120 have something like RGB. So the idea is that it's a one 370 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:45,040 stop shop where you can do everything. 371 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,120 The core principle of Aqua is that it has to offer a lot of 372 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,360 utility, so it cannot simply be a wallet for a wallet's sake. 373 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,760 We need to allow people to swap into other things like stable 374 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,600 coins like Tether USDT. We have to have services where 375 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,320 they can on and off board into the Fiat system because the Fiat 376 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,120 system still exists today. So we we have to offer the users 377 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,960 a lot of utility but we also want to be a pragmatic as 378 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,280 bitcoiners. So a lot of Bitcoin wallets 379 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,840 don't integrate Tether, but Tether is issued on Liquid, so 380 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,400 you don't need to integrate Tron or Ethereum or something like 381 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,880 that. You can just integrate Liquid 382 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,400 and then you get Tether. And Tether is the most dominant 383 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,040 stable coin in the market by far. 384 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,800 I think they're at 70% dominance down. 385 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,760 And if you go to Global S which is our target market for Aqua, 386 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,160 Latin America, you know less developing countries, they all 387 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,240 accept Tether. But the sad thing is that 388 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,080 they're using it on Tron and Ethereum, and we hope that by 389 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,640 pushing Aqua, they'll start to use it on Liquid. 390 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,760 And there will be benefits to them using it on Liquid as well, 391 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,800 because Liquid has Confidential Transactions. 392 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,800 So instead of everyone being able to see all your purchases, 393 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,600 it's confidential and you can unblind transactions as needed. 394 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:11,080 But we'll have this deep integration with all these 395 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,880 services that allow you to move your assets fluidly between main 396 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,960 chain Bitcoin to layer two Bitcoin, which is Lightning and 397 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,400 Liquid and Tether. And you can do that just using 398 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,000 swap services. So we can be non custodial 399 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,640 wallet and be a technology provider and simply integrate 400 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,400 these services. So right now the iOS version is 401 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,600 a little bit gimped because Apple wouldn't let us have a 402 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,120 swap button there. So we're working through that. 403 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,960 But the Android version, you can go from main chain Bitcoin to 404 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,160 liquid to USDT and then from the liquid wallet you can send out 405 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,880 on liquid or on lightning. So you can see we can sort of 406 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,560 access everything and the USDT channel, we can use swaps 407 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:00,560 through side shift and go on to other chains as well. 408 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,360 So if you're from Europe and you're travelling in Latam and 409 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,080 you want to go to Argentina and you have to deal with people 410 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,520 that want Tether to get to Argentinian Pesos, well, you'll 411 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,440 be able to go there with Aqua, swap to USDT and send it to them 412 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:21,000 on Tron. And it's all in one interface. 413 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,200 And sadly we have to do that right now. 414 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,200 But maybe in a couple years you'll just send them liquid 415 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,360 tether and you don't have to swap the Tron. 416 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,560 It's going to start. Somewhere, Yeah, yeah, of 417 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,200 course. No, I love how you are also 418 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,440 taking feedback on Twitter. There's a lot of people who are 419 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,680 trying this out. I think that's that's great, 420 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,400 right? Like you built you build in 421 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,680 public. In essence I think you get a, 422 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,800 you get a lot of feedback from people and I think you also 423 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,760 shared some updates about OK, like this is already going to be 424 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,840 in the next, in the next version basically. 425 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,600 So would you say that you know when you say like I'm a 426 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,400 technology company and focusing on nation state adoption but 427 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,400 also on on technology, is this Then also I think you just 428 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,040 briefly mentioned it, but like part of this strategy, right, 429 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,480 like if a country decides, OK we work with you and you know let's 430 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,680 say similar to El Salvador and you know however they apply it 431 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,640 in their country, then you also can provide them with technology 432 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,600 that can help their citizens adopt using Bitcoin, right? 433 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,040 Yeah, if they want to, we can set something up for them. 434 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,000 We can also white label Aqua, like El Salvador has their Chivo 435 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,480 wallet. But if another country wanted 436 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,920 their own wallet for whatever reason, we can rebrand Aqua 437 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,120 White label it and build an integration with them to their 438 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,440 banking system. So it'd be a seamless experience 439 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,160 for their end users. And it might be even better than 440 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,840 Chivo because it would be non custodial. 441 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,880 The people would have their own wallet and they only need to 442 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,240 interact with the banking system when they need to, so it's 443 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,320 better for privacy and soft custody, soft sovereignty. 444 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,480 Yeah, awesome. And so I saw you on lots of 445 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,080 trips last year. You mentioned Colombia, I think 446 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,320 you were in Mexico, Suriname. Lately I heard you talk about 447 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:11,520 the governor of Java, Indonesia, who is interested in Bitcoin. 448 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,560 I think he is like the most popular person to be elected, I 449 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,120 think is that in February or not as president. 450 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,280 But there's like elections in lots of these countries. 451 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,200 Right. Changes. 452 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,880 So the the challenge of doing what we do at Gen. 3IN dealing 453 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,320 with nation states is it changes on the other side. 454 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,240 So yeah, I think he was in the running. 455 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,640 This is Governor Ridwin, Camille. 456 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,400 He stepped down from governor. Now he is an interim governor, 457 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,080 but he was supposed to be the running for VP. 458 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,400 Now it's a different person running for VP. 459 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,840 So things change all the time and we just have to adapt. 460 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,320 So we'll we'll see what happens with the next Indonesian 461 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,520 election, but we do have connections there and we will be 462 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,120 back. Yeah. 463 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,600 And so I I talked, I don't know if it was with Phillip actually 464 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,080 within a previous episode also about the Surinam, which is like 465 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,960 a former colony of the country that I that I live in. 466 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,640 And I thought it was really interesting that you that you 467 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,560 went there because well, I know some about Suriname, right. 468 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,840 But there's there's so many like former colonies. 469 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,520 I think a few months ago we had, there were struggles in Niger, 470 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,800 where France is a former colonist, right. 471 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,680 And then someone wrote the story to explain that in Niger, they 472 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,280 still use French francs, that's France pays Niger in French 473 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,000 francs for the uranium currency that France doesn't use anymore, 474 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,000 you know. And so there's a lot of these, 475 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,960 these these formerly colonized countries that are still 476 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,160 entangled, of course, with their former colonizers. 477 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,640 And so I thought it was really interesting that you went to 478 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,000 Suriname. I don't know what you can share 479 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,560 about that, but I'd love to hear like, what? 480 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,600 What, what starts something like that, like a first visit to a 481 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,680 country and well, for sure. And then like what? 482 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,640 What is the angle there? Yeah, so Surinam was an 483 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,640 interesting development. We we had that lead through 484 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,600 Maya. She's a bitcoiner from Surinam 485 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:13,560 and she started engaging with us and making some connections. 486 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,240 Eventually we met with the foreign Minister of Surinam, 487 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:23,120 Albert Ramdin, and we started having a series of meetings 488 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,200 because he would go to to Europe quite often and then then our 489 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,200 COO and then whole he would meet with him. 490 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,760 And we also had a few online meetings with the central bank 491 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,360 there to discuss Bitcoin and Bitcoin strategies. 492 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,400 And then we arranged a trip there to meet with the president 493 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,320 after a lot of legwork. So it just kind of happened 494 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,240 gradually and organically and hopefully now we'll be able to 495 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,000 work with them on doing something with Bitcoin. 496 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,360 But there's a there are a lot of opportunities there too because 497 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,080 they have a lot of different interesting projects they have. 498 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,880 They've discovered oil off the coast, so there is the potential 499 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,920 to do something like a Bitcoin bond to raise capital for that. 500 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,120 They have a lot of hydropower in the country as well. 501 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,000 There is a hydro dam project that could potentially be done 502 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,320 to mine Bitcoin with. There is excess energy at an 503 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,720 existing hydro plant. There is a village deep in the 504 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,480 Amazon that is looking towards mining Bitcoin to finance more 505 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,440 energy infrastructure. I'm probably missing something, 506 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,760 but there's a lot of things that can be done there with Bitcoin. 507 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,280 We also proposed to the central bank that they can buy, use 508 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,160 their reserves by 1% of Bitcoin, and that's still underway. 509 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,240 Hopefully they will do it soon rather than later because I 510 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,560 think Bitcoin price is going to go up. 511 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,920 So yeah, we'll talk about that. I would hope that they do it 512 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,960 sooner rather than later, but everyone gets Bitcoin at the 513 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,400 price they deserve, so yeah. Well, I think that's a nice 514 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,440 leeway into the to the next question. 515 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,840 I I sent out a tweet last week with just like my global game 516 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,200 theory prediction. I don't, I'm not sure if you saw 517 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,920 it, but I was thinking about, I think I saw something about like 518 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,120 in Hong Kong they're thinking about ETFs apparently that's 519 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,560 expedited also there's there seems to be some pace there as 520 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,120 well. And then I thought, well if you 521 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,400 can define BlackRock as AUSG proxy and Hong Kong as as a as a 522 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:30,480 China proxy, then could the Bitcoin ETFs in America be like 523 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,960 a kickoff for for nation state adoption, right. 524 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,200 Like I mean or or or at least global game theory, let's, let's 525 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,960 let's stay there, right because I think, well we're seeing that 526 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,480 apparently this is happening in Hong Kong. 527 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,840 So I wrote down, well, if America and China go, then I 528 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,920 don't know what they're thinking about in was it Qatar or I think 529 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,800 the was Qatar, was that the guy who visited El Salvador or is 530 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,360 that that's? Qatar. 531 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,000 Yeah, right. Yeah, it's Qatar and Oman has 532 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,520 like a billion dollar mining experiments. 533 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,520 I almost want to say with Marathon, like these dominoes 534 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,960 have to fall, right? Like it doesn't. 535 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,200 Even if you're remotely thinking about adopting Bitcoin or maybe 536 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,880 putting 1% on the central bank balance sheet, like if your 537 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,000 enemies or countries that you don't really like, if they go 538 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,360 like you, you have to go. What? 539 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,160 What do you think about this? What's the What are your 540 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,040 thoughts here? Yeah, I fully agree. 541 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,560 All the dominoes are going to fall and I think that a lot of 542 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,000 countries are still countries, regulators, financial 543 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,600 authorities, etcetera. They all look towards the US for 544 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,520 guidance. So I think we did see like I've 545 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:52,000 known for a while that there is a spot ETF that's in discussions 546 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,880 and getting close to approval in Hong Kong. 547 00:30:54,240 --> 00:31:00,120 This is from months ago, last year, but we've seen other media 548 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,880 posts about it. I think Bitcoin Magazine posted 549 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,160 to a few weeks ago and then they deleted it for some reason. 550 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,720 I'm not sure why and then recently there is another 551 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,840 politician in Hong Kong saying that we need to accelerate this, 552 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:19,480 but it is under way and they are looking to the US as a a a rule 553 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,840 setter or trendsetter or the benchmark for whether there 554 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,320 should or should not be a slot ETF. 555 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:31,440 Even there's an ETF being filed in Australia by monochrome. 556 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,600 I I believe that the Australian regulators also holding off on 557 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,520 that or we're holding off on that kind of waiting for the US 558 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,800 to make the move. So that will come and that 559 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,240 unlocks a lot of capital. And what you touched on earlier 560 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,200 was a point I think I made as well, but in Hong Kong, well, 561 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,600 Hong Kong doing something does mean that Bitcoin is OK because 562 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,000 Beijing okayed it. Hong Kong would not do that if 563 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,080 Beijing says no. And Hong Kong is sort of like 564 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,480 the financial center, not for all of China, right? 565 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,280 So all the mainland China money will flow to Hong Kong and 566 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,360 access that ETF. Yeah, it's actually interesting. 567 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,880 I think that not a lot of people still talk about the the banning 568 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,360 of the mining in China and now it's allowed again and now we 569 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,080 have ETFs coming right. Like that is also in some form 570 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:28,840 the cap, the capitulation. I think that Bitcoin force on 571 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,080 the deniers, I almost want to say right, like the incentives 572 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,480 are just too strong, right. That's I think a core of Bitcoin 573 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,880 that you don't even have to really understand it. 574 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,240 But when your incentives aligned, like you have to go, 575 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,560 right. I mean you now see I think 576 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,040 Franklin Templeton, one of the ETF issuers, they still talk 577 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,320 about Crypto Web 3 point. They don't fully understand it, 578 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,520 but they're still doing it right. 579 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:52,800 There's they still join the race. 580 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,440 So I think that's a fascinating aspect of of Bitcoin there. 581 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,360 And also in the ETF approval, actually it's it said commodity 582 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,960 based ETF which I found interesting, right. 583 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,800 So if you say OK, commodity is basically captured energy in 584 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,680 some sense, right, like lots of commodities are used to refine 585 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,680 and build something else. So it's captured energy. 586 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,760 Well, if you see it like that and align that with what you 587 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,120 just mentioned as your your pitch, then of course countries 588 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,080 want to have this right. Like it's a very short. 589 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,880 In my mind it's a very short loop. 590 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,200 Yeah, the the approval of the ETFs is actually very big for a 591 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:36,440 nation state adoption because it signifies that Bitcoin is OK 592 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,240 now, right. When you can point like when we 593 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,160 talk to some people it still comes up, you know Bitcoin is 594 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:47,480 risky and it's not really, it's still something that criminals 595 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,680 and hackers use etcetera, right. But now we can say well the 596 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,600 largest asset manager on the planet has an ETF and along with 597 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,480 ten others. So it changes that discussion 598 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,240 and it puts an end to that discussion immediately, which is 599 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,280 very powerful in in the tool bag of things that we can use to 600 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,880 orange till nations. Well, that FUD is gone 601 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,760 basically, right? Or at least. 602 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,000 It'll remain, but you can for some people, yeah, you can 603 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,239 squish the FUD very quickly. You know, like Bitcoin is used 604 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,080 for money laundering. Well, then why is there an ETF 605 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,000 for this money laundering thing? Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. 606 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:26,880 Right. Yeah, fascination, probably. 607 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,800 This FUD was probably started by the people who now running an 608 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:35,000 ETF, but that's how it goes. All right. 609 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,400 So ETF launched we this is the third day of the third day of 610 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,320 trading. What's what's your 2024 outlook? 611 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,880 We'll talk about Omega Candle. Maybe that is just the outlook. 612 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,400 We can jump straight into that if you want, but yeah. 613 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,480 Firstly, I think we're overdue for one million per Bitcoin in 614 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,600 2024 just based on the entire macroeconomic situation. 615 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,240 So I guess my guess is 2024 one million that's the outlook. 616 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,520 All right, so you tweeted that, you know, bit similar to what I 617 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,840 just said, like ETFs would kick off perfect storm and share the 618 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,480 list of things that would enable that. 619 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,240 And I'd love to just, I just copy pasted your tweet and I'd 620 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,840 love to talk about, you know, these different elements, but 621 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,360 first of all, the Bitcoin Omega candle. 622 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,240 What is that? So the Omega Candle is the next 623 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,560 step after the God Candle. So we've been talking about a 624 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,560 God candle of 10K green on the daily for some time now. 625 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,960 An Omega candle is 100K green on the daily. 626 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:45,120 So when Bitcoin goes up 100K or 0.1 M. 627 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,280 Yeah, I saw you define Bitcoin now in millions. 628 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,920 I think that's actually pretty good. 629 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,360 We should, we should keep that. I think the unit bias in general 630 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,400 is a really big thing in in Bitcoin, right, Just for the 631 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,320 ETFs, people buying $25 or $45.00 ETF shares. 632 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,840 But yeah, some people and some organizations, some countries 633 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,680 will only start paying attention at 1,000,000 probably. 634 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,920 So yeah, I think that that's a great switch. 635 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,240 First thing on the list was the ETF ad campaigns. 636 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,920 I'm personally really looking forward to the Super Bowl. 637 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,240 Like I'm just interested to see what they come up with. 638 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,280 I mean there was a Coinbase, the commercial, I think it was last 639 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,040 year or maybe even the year before. 640 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,800 So I am expecting multiple Bitcoin ETF ads. 641 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,200 But yeah, why did you write down ETF? 642 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,600 Ad campaigns. Well, I think this ties into 643 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,800 another tweet thread I did a couple weeks ago. 644 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,120 But the premise is all of these ETFs are competing. 645 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,760 They are competing for AUM and I don't think all of them are 646 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,200 going to survive. It's going to come down to maybe 647 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,160 3-4 of them that are the dominant ones and everything 648 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,960 else is just, you know, no one cares. 649 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:04,760 So they have to fight for market share and mind share and the way 650 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,320 that they do that is through advertising and we've seen that 651 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,400 already. So Bitwise has a pretty good ad 652 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,360 out there with The Most Interesting Man, I think. 653 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,240 Who's the other one that did an ad? 654 00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:19,840 Vanek did an ad. I don't think Fidelity's done 655 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,800 one yet. No, it was the. 656 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,040 Crocal. So not really. 657 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,240 Who's the DEFY Guy? The DEFY Ticker. 658 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,480 Is that hashtags? Yeah, hashtags. 659 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,160 They did one, but it was kind of floppy. 660 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,480 It was like crypto. And then they did another one. 661 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,360 It was not that great. So another one of this kind of 662 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,960 like like a fiver thing. I thought it was like a. 663 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,640 Fiver Grayscales was a fiver one. 664 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:47,560 That was basically, I comment fiver quantities, you can 665 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,200 replace Bitcoin with word copper and the ad would work 666 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,680 flawlessly. Yeah, you know, we're the 667 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,960 biggest copper ETF. Yeah, if you want. 668 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,480 Copper, grayscale. So yeah, we know that they are 669 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,280 doing ads and they are getting Hollywood talent. 670 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,440 You know, the bitwise ad is the best indicator of that. 671 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,320 So the question is what is the next level and yeah, next level 672 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,800 Super Super Bowl with a list star. 673 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,360 So we'll see what? Happens. 674 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,280 Yeah, probably. I also saw in the video, what's 675 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,160 the is that Galaxy with Novogratz had like a video of of 676 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,680 Mike Novogratz talking and then he's sitting on the couch and he 677 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,840 opens a paper and there it's like a full page ad you see on 678 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,720 the paper of their ETF. So they're doing like all these 679 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,960 classic things. But yeah, I I think the premise 680 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,920 of we just need the biggest AUM and therefore we do marketing. 681 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,400 Yeah, let's let's see. Let's see where we go. 682 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,480 Yeah. Next point on the list was 683 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,200 nation state adoption. While we just talked about this, 684 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,320 I don't know if you can share anything. 685 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,960 But why? Why you wrote that down for a 686 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,680 reason is that I am assuming that's not a guess. 687 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,880 Well, we're working with a number of countries, right? 688 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,200 So there's Columbia Store in Prospera, not a country, but 689 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,560 special economic Zone, Madera, Montenegro. 690 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,560 There's a lot of countries that we are engaged with and you 691 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,600 know, there are more that we haven't talked about yet. 692 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,840 Those are in their redacted column. 693 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,400 But there's a lot of work to be done. 694 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,240 And I think as Bitcoin price goes up, as the ETS solidify and 695 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,840 as these ETS make their ad campaigns, it makes it a lot 696 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,680 easier for us to engage about Bitcoin. 697 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,920 Like when Bitcoin price tanked after FTX and Doquan, that was a 698 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,160 very difficult time. But even before we recovered to 699 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,720 these levels, we started to get some re engagement again and 700 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,600 that's why we had those meetings towards the end of 2023. 701 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:49,360 But if Bitcoin does go to 0.1 M or higher, I'm sure there is 702 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,760 going to be a lot more countries coming and trying to engage and 703 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,640 figure what to do. Yeah, just a new question I got 704 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,480 based on based on this, like when you talk to people in 705 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,040 countries, you talk about you know what's how can they 706 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,960 utilize, you know, their resources and then you connected 707 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,560 with Bitcoin. But when we talk about, you 708 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,640 know, game theory and the global adoption, there's also the rush 709 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,040 comes from or the speed comes from the scarcity, right? 710 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,920 Like, do you ever use that argument? 711 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,360 I mean. That that's what I think in this 712 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,280 global game theory, Like, even if you're remotely thinking or 713 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,960 you're still in discussions, like at one point you have to, 714 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,320 you have to go like what the save Dean says about the 715 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,640 gunpowder, right? Like you can fade the gunpowder, 716 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,320 but then you die. Do you see that as the same 717 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,400 thing? Like eventually they're gone, 718 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,480 I'd say. Yeah, we actually, I'm just 719 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,280 trying to think, no, we we haven't. 720 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,640 When we talk to the presidents, we don't talk about scarcity. 721 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,680 I think that's not necessary. Just focus on the monetary 722 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,280 aspect of it and the ability to change things in the near term. 723 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,200 That. Yeah, because once you go into 724 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,400 scarcity, you go into a monetary theory and that's like another 725 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,600 kind of worms. And you have to understand that 726 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,640 when we get to the meetings for the presidents, it's not like we 727 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,920 get, you know, five hours over days, five hours today, five 728 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,400 hours tomorrow. We get like an hour and maybe 729 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,240 more, maybe maybe an hour and a half, maybe 2. 730 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,360 But it's not unlimited time. So we have. 731 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,480 To be very. Concise and go in with a very 732 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,440 compact argument. We can't wax, you know, 733 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,160 theoretical. And, you know, we could send us 734 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,520 to Mars one day. I mean, that's what killed Dave 735 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,280 Portnoy, right when the Winklevoss twins were telling 736 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,040 him, you know, gold can be mined on asteroids. 737 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,880 Elon's going to mine the gold and bring it back. 738 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,040 That just blew his mind pieces and he never recovered. 739 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,080 No. OK. 740 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,280 Well, I don't, I don't think I was that far, but it's more like 741 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,000 in my mind, it's kind of like the second thing because one, if 742 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,560 you understand that Bitcoin is digitized energy and you can use 743 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,280 that the leverage that you have to turn physical energy as a 744 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,160 country into digital energy in a commodity and then trade it 745 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,840 across the world, yeah, you can do that. 746 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,480 But there's also that scarcity part in itself. 747 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,760 Yeah, it's just where my my mind went, but we'll we'll see. 748 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,880 Scarcity. The scarcity will manifest 749 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,000 itself in the price of that asset that you're trading. 750 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:20,760 That is for trading. Yeah. 751 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,760 That's the proxy for it. Yeah, I agree. 752 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,560 Yeah, it's it's a simpler way to not go there. 753 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,880 But yeah, talk about price appreciation, we talk about 754 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,800 projections like you know our our estimate is 60% annualized 755 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,480 growth per year. So in 10 years you know 3 + 756 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,440 1,000,000 dollars that's very conservative. 757 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,200 So we we focus on that like the scarcity manifests itself in 758 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,920 price. So it's covered. 759 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,520 All right, next point, the halving. 760 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,400 They're having, well, that's self-explanatory. 761 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,880 Supply gets cut. Yeah, well, I saw interesting 762 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,120 calculations people doing on Twitter. 763 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,160 If they were talking about like if there's a constant stream 764 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:08,440 into or well out of Coinbase or well out of holder pockets or 765 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,800 wherever they get the Bitcoin from into Coinbase for the ETFs, 766 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:18,240 then that's already like BlackRock bought like 14 days of 767 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:22,280 new daily supply or something. Yeah, so that's kind of the 768 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,160 argument behind that or the reasoning, right? 769 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:29,040 Like if it gets cut in half and the the buying keeps this stays 770 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,840 the same for the ETF or even gross, then of course that has 771 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,440 an effect on on the price. All right. 772 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,440 Yeah. The next, I think. 773 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,920 I posted a picture too that someone made. 774 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,200 I forgot who I I just pressed repost picture and it didn't tag 775 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,280 the guy and I lost it. But it was a calculation of how 776 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:51,200 much exchange Bitcoin remains 1.4 million or so and how long 777 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,000 it takes to exhaust that just by current ETF demand. 778 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,160 And it was like something to the order of 80 ish days which kind 779 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,160 of lines up with having so time. In theory all the exchange 780 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,840 Bitcoin is hoovered up, you have the halving which cuts supply 781 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,560 down more. So it's very interesting to look 782 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,280 at these numbers. Yeah, I think to give him 783 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,680 credit, I think it was Luke Mikage, like the Australian guy, 784 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,200 because I talked with him on another chat and he said the 785 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,400 same thing. Like in 80 days this is gone. 786 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,280 And I was like, what? Really? 787 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,800 And then, yeah, I think he said the same, the same picture. 788 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:26,920 Yeah. All right. 789 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,840 Next point, the Veblen effect, which basically says, it's funny 790 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,120 because I tweeted before, I think the higher the price, the 791 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,680 less sellers because, you know, it's legitimized, right. 792 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,840 So then you know what you have, so less people will sell. 793 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,200 Is this similar? Because I think Fiblin effect is 794 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,480 the higher price, the more attractive means legitimization, 795 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,520 higher holder rate, higher price, etcetera. 796 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,800 I think it is coin for luxury goods. 797 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,440 So the more expensive a luxury good is, the more people value 798 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,400 it because it's a status symbol and it cost a lot and that's 799 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,080 what makes it luxurious. And I think Bitcoin. 800 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,080 We've already proved that the vellin effect works on Bitcoin. 801 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,960 But unfortunately it was proved when we went down. 802 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,840 So we went down, no one wanted to buy it 15K, it's a horrible 803 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,680 thing. Nobody wants that that that 804 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,160 garbage Bitcoin, right? It has 15K, but that proves that 805 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,720 the effect will work when it goes up. 806 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:30,080 When we go to 0.1 M or 0.5 M, that's when Bitcoin is a very, 807 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,680 very attractive thing. It's also tied in 808 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:38,040 psychologically to the market cap gold because it's 0.25 M or 809 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:44,120 0.5 M we eclipse gold market cap and that's when Bitcoin is the 810 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,400 new goal and that's when the ETS run their new campaign like this 811 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:52,200 is the new goal and that's basically anchor is Bitcoin and 812 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,440 people will just want. I think that more, Yeah, I think 813 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,960 that will shatter world views, right? 814 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,960 Like, oh and by the way, well, one Bitcoin is already 1 Hermes 815 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,240 Birkin bag, right? Like, I think that bag is like 816 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,720 40K. So I think we're there in terms 817 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:08,520 of luxury goods, at least price level. 818 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,880 But yeah, when we were around like 65 Ki think we crossed, we 819 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:16,120 like Bitcoin was more valuable than silver, right. 820 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:21,160 And so most people, most adults, they grew up with gold. 821 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,760 And silver is the thing you need to have, right? 822 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,520 But then you would have been forced to say, like gold, 823 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,160 Bitcoin, and then silver is what you need to have. 824 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,400 So yeah, I find that very interesting, too. 825 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,240 Like, that narrative will change because then, yeah, you have, 826 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,440 you cannot ignore saying Bitcoin. 827 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,360 Right. Because then it is just 828 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,080 provably, you know, worth more. Yeah. 829 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:43,640 Fascinating. All right. 830 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:51,320 The 118 multiplier, this comes from Bank of America report from 831 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,520 I think the height of the last bull market where they said one 832 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:01,320 $1.00 in means $180 added to the market cap. 833 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,120 Do you think that still holds? Like where have you? 834 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:09,880 Did you dive into that more? I haven't gone into it more, but 835 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,160 I've seen people say, yeah, it's too high. 836 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,520 It should be, you know, maybe 2 to 10. 3. 837 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,440 Like to recap, For people it's $1.00 going into Bitcoin 838 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,400 increases market cap by X. So I think they probably work 839 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,400 backwards and I remember reading the report, I'm pretty sure they 840 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,960 work backwards from some increase and they said $1.00 in 841 00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:34,600 because they're measuring inflows, increased market cap by 842 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,560 118 times. So it's not like it's a theory 843 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,120 or a projection, it's a reverse calculation. 844 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,760 And yeah, that means that it could be much higher and the 845 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,480 multiplier effect can be amplified by the Veblen effect, 846 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:54,120 right. So at 500K or sorry, 0.5 M per 847 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,840 Bitcoin, I think a dollar there would have a far bigger impact 848 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:04,600 than lower because it makes that luxury good even more luxurious 849 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,120 and even higher in demand. So we'll, we'll see what 850 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,280 happens. But it's a combination of all 851 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,080 these factors. I mean jumping ahead to supply 852 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,160 and demand shock. How does supply, demand shock, 853 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,120 Veblen effect and multiplier interact with one another 854 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:23,000 because there is an interaction there. 855 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,640 These things don't just work on their own, they all amplify one 856 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,440 another. And This is why I made the one 857 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,280 end projection, because nobody really knows what happens. 858 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,360 This is the Bitcoin ETF is the first it's. 859 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,400 The first time. Of a good with limited supply. 860 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:45,480 You know you have corn, ETFs, gold, copper, you don't know the 861 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,880 supply, it always goes up. Gold is what, 2% a year supply 862 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,440 increase, something like that. But everything in the past was 863 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,040 not bound. So there's always more. 864 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,120 But. You know, Bitcoin is different, 865 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,040 so. Yeah, I I see what happens. 866 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:08,640 I agree. I I like the the predictions and 867 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,040 and I think it's good you say like nobody really knows. 868 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,360 But I do think and I agree you know, but I do think you can 869 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,800 pinpoint to some of these things and say like this could get 870 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,240 really weird, like really weird, right, because what you 871 00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,480 mentioned the the multiplier at least it's proven up to a 872 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,520 certain point. I think we saw something similar 873 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,640 with the fake ETF tweet, right, where I think like 500 million 874 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,400 Max came in in 30 minutes and it moved the market cap by 50 875 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,200 billion. So that there was a, there was 876 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,080 100. I think we've already seen in 877 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,480 the last week something because the price went up before the 878 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,160 grayscale sell off started. So there you already saw the bit 879 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,880 and I agree if the higher the price the less sellers, yeah 880 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,400 this is going to go up one way or another and that's going to 881 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,520 'cause that's the next point. Max Payne, I like the Max Payne 882 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,120 theory. Is that just, you know, you 883 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,240 think you're going to go this way, but it's probably going to 884 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:07,000 go the other way. Or like, how would you explain 885 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,680 Max Payne theory? The Max Payne theory is in 886 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:15,200 essence is it's like the most painful outcome. 887 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,520 Or Elon Musk puts it, the most interesting outcome is most 888 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,240 likely outcome. Entertaining, yeah. 889 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,480 Yeah, entertaining. So the most painful outcome at 890 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,640 the end of the day. Like, I made a list of Max Payne 891 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,080 points, but the most serious one. 892 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,160 Some of them were jokes. Like I said, Plan B's stock to 893 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,360 flow is gonna break again, But up this time, Yeah. 894 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,200 But. The real Max Payne is that 8 895 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,160 billion people on this planet will not get a chance to enter 896 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,000 Bitcoin in a way that would impact their financial lives in 897 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,920 a meaningful way. So we know that there is a 898 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,800 divide there, there's the Cantillon effect and 899 00:50:54,880 --> 00:51:00,520 Contilionaires and the thinking is, well, the best case thinking 900 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,000 is everyone can get into Bitcoin. 901 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:07,720 Your, your average Joe and you know in a working job can 902 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,720 accumulate some Bitcoin and when Bitcoin goes to a million it'll 903 00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:15,280 even out the system. So or or or some guy in Latin 904 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,600 America can accumulate some Bitcoin because typically 905 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,560 they're earning pesos or something and they're not able 906 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,080 to keep up with the dollar even. Let's not talk about Bitcoin, 907 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,560 but the ideal case is that Bitcoin can unify and even out 908 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,920 the playing field because we all have a little bit of Bitcoin and 909 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,320 then Bitcoin goes up to 1,000,000. 910 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:38,080 We are go balanced out with the the people that have control of 911 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,560 Fiat money. So the worst case scenario is 912 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,760 that doesn't happen. They just inject a ton of 913 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,520 capital, convert their Fiat into Bitcoin and beat everyone else. 914 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,320 They front run 8 billion people and it's status quo. 915 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,440 The the billionaires that control the world still control 916 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,240 the world, but now they have Bitcoin and everyone else is 917 00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,600 still, you know, trying to get by with a few SATS. 918 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,920 Yeah, well, that's why we have to talk more about Bitcoin, 919 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,440 right? More, more podcast for more 920 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,480 education. All right, last two points. 921 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:15,600 And I think this is also what Michael Saylor mentioned when he 922 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,400 said, well, what legitimizes a 5 million Bitcoin price, He said 923 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:24,120 ETFs approved Fast B rules is one of the things you mentioned, 924 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:25,320 right? Like those are the accounting 925 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:30,920 rules, so companies can report the fair value of the Bitcoin. 926 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,840 So that's a more equal reporting in that sense. 927 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:39,360 And I think his third one was like banks offering financial 928 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:40,800 services. Well, maybe that's to the 929 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,120 extension also of the ETFs. And your last point was renewed 930 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:49,840 QE and I think today we saw some news about that where the Fed is 931 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,240 thinking about pivoting, like what what can you share about 932 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:55,040 that? Well, they have no choice but to 933 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,440 pivot, right. The funny thing is that the 934 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,320 Bitcoin having cycle lines up basically with the election 935 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:07,000 cycle in the US So you know the IT goes back to a lot of 936 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,880 problems with governance, but we can go into that another time. 937 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,800 But you know the new administration, when they start 938 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,160 they can do things but when it's time for election they need to 939 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,080 give free stuff to people again, right? 940 00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,080 They need to, they need to get the people happy and get the 941 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,600 vote right and they will sacrifice the future for that. 942 00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,120 So that means renewed QE. It has to happen. 943 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,360 Also the debt is ballooning, right? 944 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,400 The interest payments to service the debt in the US are getting 945 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,920 to hundreds of billions of dollars and they just went up 946 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:48,040 from 34 to 35 trillion in debt. And if you know how compound 947 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,120 interest works, that you know that that is going to spiral out 948 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,520 of control because it compounds, right? 949 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,400 It's like it's exponential. Compound interest is 950 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,760 exponential. So they can keep that up and get 951 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,320 more debt, or they can lower interest and print money to 952 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,480 service debt because that's the only way to deal with that. 953 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,280 They have to print money from somewhere because it's not going 954 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,520 to come from GDP. There's just too much that has 955 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,760 been printed, printed and sent already. 956 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:24,480 So QE is inevitable as we go into QT quantitative tightening 957 00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:28,360 or quantitative sorry, quantitative hardening, QQH for 958 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,000 Bitcoin. QHI didn't hear about that 959 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,600 before, but yeah, we'll see. OK, well and what's your 960 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,960 timeline? We said 2024, but of course like 961 00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,160 what? Love for you to name a month or 962 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:45,440 date? Well, I did say we can get to 963 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:52,560 1,000,001 MBTC in days to weeks after the ETFs are launched. 964 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:58,120 So I did put a hard cap on that. I said seven weeks because eight 965 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,080 would be getting into months territory. 966 00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,400 So we'll see what happens. But these predictions are for 967 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,240 fun and I think some people are angry about the predictions 968 00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:09,160 because they don't understand yet that you can't really 969 00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,000 predict what Bitcoin does. Bitcoin will always do its own 970 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,840 thing and a lot of us that are having fun throwing these 971 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,280 numbers out, we already understand that and we know 972 00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:19,680 that. I think the disconnect is that 973 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,360 some people think you can predict it, that you can do TA 974 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:26,400 and you can analyse where it's going to go and that we are 975 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,080 irresponsible for saying things like 1 million or 1.5 or two. 976 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,640 Whereas we just see that you can't guess any of it and we're 977 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,000 just guessing for fun. But the end state is really 978 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,920 there is no more fee yet, you can't price Bitcoin in dollars 979 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,120 anymore. So all of this is just for 980 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,120 entertainment? Yeah, Well I agree. 981 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,560 I think it's more like a point where we are going because you 982 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,120 know although we cannot put a price on it or an exact 983 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:58,520 timeline, you can talk through a longer through all of these 984 00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,680 things that we just talked about or in general you know why is 985 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,240 Bitcoin better than any Fiat based system, right. 986 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:09,640 And I think that's also kind of the acceptance in Bitcoin where 987 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:14,200 you know this is a better thing and and we all do a different 988 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,200 job of evangelizing that and sharing that with people or 989 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,440 educating people. And we know it's true. 990 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:27,320 So you know this eventually will happen not because we are not 991 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,160 doing anything, but exactly because we are doing stuff, 992 00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,360 right. And so yeah, that's why I think 993 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,320 it's also fun. It's kind of it's just we're 994 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,840 we're thinking through it and it would just be really 995 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,880 entertaining if we hit 1,000,000, right. 996 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,640 Like that's I said this before on this podcast like when I went 997 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,120 more into Bitcoin was after I read a tweet of someone who 998 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,040 said, well, if you think Bitcoin is an experiment that's going to 999 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,680 0 or everything, if you even remotely think it's going to be 1000 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,280 everything, you have to have a seat in the stadium. 1001 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,080 And then that's when I thought, well I need to get you know 1002 00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,960 solidify my seat in the stadium. And the 1,000,000 Bitcoin is 1003 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,760 like one of those moments while you're sitting in the stadium or 1004 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,880 a nation state adoption right. Or the ETF approval, same thing. 1005 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,080 Like it's all these little steps where yeah, you can enjoy along 1006 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,560 the way and and secretly also maybe a little bit think like 1007 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,680 I'm right, you know, like I understand this thing and I'm 1008 00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,880 enjoying what's happening. So yeah, I agree. 1009 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,240 Fun. Awesome. 1010 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:28,080 Well, last question that I ask everyone is what is a core 1011 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:29,600 belief that you will never let go? 1012 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,680 That's a good one. I don't think I've been asked 1013 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,160 that before. What? 1014 00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,480 What is your core belief? That's tricky. 1015 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,880 That's a politician reply Man. Like well. 1016 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:45,760 You tell me yours, I'll tell you mine. 1017 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,920 I think that's a good question. It's funny because I asked this 1018 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:57,320 question well more than 20 Times Now, but I my core belief is 1019 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,480 actually have tattoo. Might I have tattoo that says 1020 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:03,000 never slow down, never grow old. Like, I think the whole purpose 1021 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,800 of humans is to evolve and move forward. 1022 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,640 So it's a fun and interesting life pursuit if you keep 1023 00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,240 following what's happening with humanity. 1024 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:19,480 And I think that has always been like my personal how to say 1025 00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,960 like, like, yeah, like a personal core thing to to always 1026 00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:23,920 just be interested in like what are people doing, right. 1027 00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,000 And if you dismiss, hey, that sounds like a stupid idea that 1028 00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,640 will never work, then you're probably wrong, because they're 1029 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,400 spending their time the most precious thing we all have on 1030 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,200 something. And if you easily dismiss it, 1031 00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:36,640 then you probably don't see something. 1032 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,040 So I'm always interested in growing. 1033 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,960 I think learning is growing. Failing is growing, yeah. 1034 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:45,960 That's a good one. I believe that too. 1035 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:51,680 So I would say my core belief is that people are fundamentally 1036 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,680 good and they can be corrupted and there are bad people. 1037 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,240 But at the start, everyone is good. 1038 00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:04,600 And that's how we should try to engage people, that they may be 1039 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,880 wrong on some stuff, but they are fundamentally good, or they 1040 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,760 were taught the wrong things, or they've done wrong things, but 1041 00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,120 fundamentally they are good. And generally, I think people 1042 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:20,120 want what's best for the world, even if they don't always do it 1043 00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,960 or manifest it. I agree. 1044 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,760 Well, let's hope that we can share that message more often. 1045 00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,480 Thanks, man. Yeah, really appreciate it. 1046 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,320 Thanks for talking. And yeah, of course I will link 1047 00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:37,200 to your social profiles, Gentry, Aqua, and then people can follow 1048 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,440 your journey with Gentry. So, yeah, thanks again for 1049 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,960 coming on, was a real pleasure. Yeah, thanks Brahm. 1050 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,560 It's fun. Thanks. 1051 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,000 I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, it would be amazing 1052 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,840 if you could rate, review and subscribe on the podcast 1053 00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,760 platform of your choice. It will help us educate more 1054 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,880 millennials on the importance of Bitcoin. 1055 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,880 You can follow and connect with me on Twitter. 1056 00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,800 I'm Bramke. That's at BR AM K. 1057 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,240 And if you are, or know someone who has an interesting 1058 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,720 perspective on Bitcoin that's worth sharing, hit me up. 1059 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,800 I read and reply to every single message. 1060 01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,600 I appreciate your support and hope you'll be here for the next 1061 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:11,080 episode. Thanks for listening. 1062 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:11,600 Bye.