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If the world understood Bitcoin 
the way I see it, then we would 

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have a multibillion dollar 
Bitcoin. 

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Bitcoin is the equivalent of the
property market for the last 40 

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years, except that 100 X that 
you had to wait 40 years for in 

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property, you're probably going 
to get that condensed into the 

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next 10 years. 
So I look at this and think if 

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I'm a millennial, I'm trying to 
figure out how to get as much of

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this Bitcoin as I can because, 
you know, property's not going 

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to do it. 
Stocks are stocks are definitely

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not going to do it, and the 
bonds are just that. 

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That stuff's worth less than 
toilet paper. 12 months ago it 

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was a career risk to be advising
on Bitcoin, and now it's a 

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career risk not to be advising 
on. 

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People who stand to benefit from
Bitcoin the most are the 

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poorest. 
The smaller companies, they can 

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have an outsize return relative 
to the large companies. 

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It's not the big that eat the 
small, it's the faster they eat 

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the slow. 
Do you think we'll we'll still 

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see the classic cycles just 
because human psychology? 

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Then I think there's going to be
a moment that things just 

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completely change and someone 
with a money printer understands

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what this is and realises that 
there's no second best, there's 

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no ability to get more. 
Once this is gone and it's 

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tucked away in your coffins and 
they will buy literally every 

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Bitcoin available that's on the 
market, the powers that be will 

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understand that this is absolute
scarcity in an asset and they 

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will want it. 
Everyone, just a quick note 

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before we start. 
Over the past few months, this 

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podcast has been growing and I'm
super grateful for that. 

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Over 50,000 of you regularly 
TuneIn, but I've also seen that 

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over 65% of you still haven't 
subscribed yet. 

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So if you enjoy what I'm doing, 
if you enjoy the content and the

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conversations, please take one 
second to hit subscribe on 

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YouTube or follow me on your 
favorite podcasting app. 

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This small click actually makes 
a huge difference and helps fuel

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the algorithm so we can reach 
more people and educate them on 

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Bitcoin. 
I appreciate your support. 

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Thank you for watching. 
Keep the comments going. 

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Now let's dive into this 
episode. 

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I'm really excited to chat. 
You were guest #2 So now you're 

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back as in episode 138. 
So we're rolling. 

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And yeah, man, I'm, I'm super 
happy to, to chat. 

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I was thinking maybe it's nice 
for this conversation with you 

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to kind of like do a do like AQ1
recap and then kind of like an 

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outlook towards the rest of the 
year. 

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I know you follow all the macro 
stuff very closely more than I 

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do, so I'm always happy to learn
from you. 

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So yeah, if you're up for that, 
let's let's do it. 

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Let's dig in then. 
I think Q1 has been really a 

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mixed bag. 
So Q 12025 where we are today, 

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it's the 24th of March, we're 
nearly at the end of the first 

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quarter. 
And to say the price action with

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Bitcoin has been a little 
disappointing, I think would be 

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an understatement. 
And when we started the quarter,

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price was ripping the you know, 
we were on our way to new all 

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time highs. 
And what's transpired in that 

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first quarter because price 
action dictates sentiment is we 

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reached an all time high of 109 
thousand U.S. dollars and now 

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we're sitting at circa 8687 
thousand, but that's off the off

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the lows of a 76 and a half 
$1000 USD. 

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So we've peaked up to all time 
highs of 109. 

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Everyone was jubilant, thinking 
great, you know, we're on our 

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way to 200. 
And then the market had other 

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ideas and crashed the price, 
call it 30%, which in the grand 

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scheme of things isn't a big 
deal. 

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But in light of where we were in
some macro events that were 

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happening and say probably more 
so geopolitical, I think it felt

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like a real pick in the guts 
because the biggest thing that 

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we had in this quarter was the 
US government endorsed Bitcoin 

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and say that, you know, this is 
going to be part of their their 

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national policy moving forward. 
We had the announcement of the 

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strategic Bitcoin reserve. 
And if you've had have asked any

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Bitcoiner in the last five 
years, if the US government 

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announces the support of Bitcoin
and a strategic reserve where 

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they're going to get a million 
Bitcoin and they're going to get

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as much Bitcoin as possible, you
would have expected the price to

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move at least a yeah, at least 
double in price. 

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But we didn't see any of that 
whatsoever. 

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We've seen the price drop 30%. 
And so I think there's just a, 

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and, and this is probably worth 
recapping for, you know, for 

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anyone new to Bitcoin, whatever 
you think Bitcoin's going to do,

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it's just going to do whatever 
it's going to do. 

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And you've just got to deal with
it. 

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It's it's something that I would
never envisaged on the back of 

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that news. 
We'd have, we'd have a major 

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crash. 
But there are, there are sort of

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to me in from a from a policy 
perspective, there are three 

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huge things that have happened. 
2 have gotten the the attention,

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but one I think has sailed under
the radar, which will actually 

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in time supersede the importance
of the previous two. 

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So the first is U.S. government 
support. 

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That's the biggest thing that 
that's to me that what that 

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represents is that now firmly 
shifts the ability to buy 

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Bitcoin in today's like in at 
today's prices as the best risk 

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adjusted return time to buy 
Bitcoin that I've ever seen. 

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And this is looking at this 
thing for the last 10 years. 

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And the reason why I say that is
because when the government for 

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you, you know, the major 
superpower of the world endorses

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this, all of a sudden this takes
the left tail event of Bitcoin 

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going to 0 off the table. 
No longer are we going to 0 or 

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have a chance of going to 0 when
they support it. 

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Now I I know that might not 
bring joy to my cypherpunk 

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friends, but that's just the 
reality of where we are right 

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now. 
And you know, Bitcoin is really 

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now, you know, shifting focus to
the mainstream and go Wall 

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Street. 
And, and what that means is that

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left tail event means that we 
have the best risk adjusted time

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to be buying Bitcoin. 
So if you're not in Bitcoin now,

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you should really be allocating 
quite heavily because now is 

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your opportunity because the 
downside's covered and it's 

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nothing but upside. 
And I certainly believe that 

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over the next, call it 15 to 20 
years, there's more upside in 

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front of us than there is behind
us. 

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And if you think that, then you 
know, we're going to see 

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probably at least 100 to 150 X 
return over the next 10 years. 

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And yeah, if you look back the 
last 10 years, you're probably 

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getting a yeah, 100 to 150 X 
return. 

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But those those returns are are 
going to happen again, I think 

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in the next 10 years. 
The second thing is the 

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strategic Bitcoin reserve. 
So on the top of government 

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endorsement by the US and 
removing that left hand tail 

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risk, you now have a strategic 
Bitcoin reserve where the, the 

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nation state gamifying, you 
know, the, this is what I find 

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really amusing. 
Now nation states are playing 

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the game that every Bitcoiner on
earth is playing like, IE how do

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we accumulate more Bitcoin for 
the lowest risk possible. 

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Now the existing Bitcoin that 
they've got has effectively been

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stolen from people, but they're 
actually looking at how they 

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then go and purchase that. 
And they've talked about having 

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a million Bitcoin. 
There's been other people who've

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talked about you should have 4 
or 5 million and you've got a 

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whole host of Bitcoiners in that
administration who are actively 

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pursuing Ways and Means to add 
to that strategic Bitcoin 

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reserve. 
Now importantly, and probably 

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one of the biggest things about 
that, that I believe is going to

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be bought into the the policy 
regime of that is that whatever 

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they put into that strategic 
Bitcoin reserve is going to be 

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locked up for at least a 20 year
period. 

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And so one of the big things 
that you know, as Bitcoin as we 

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worry about is it's all good and
well to watch someone buy a 

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million Bitcoin. 
What happens if there's a change

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of administration and they want 
to start unwinding that 

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position? 
And what's really interesting 

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about this, and this is where my
brothers probably talk more 

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about this than anyone else that
I'm aware of, is the ability to 

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time lock Bitcoin. 
And Bitcoin is one of the, well,

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probably the only asset that I 
know on earth that you can 

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actually lock that asset up for 
a 20 year period. 

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So regardless of what the 
political machinations are at 

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the time or political leanings, 
you have the ability to lock 

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that time, lock that asset for 
the 20 year period to ensure 

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that no one can touch that in 
that period of time. 

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And hopefully there is a level 
of understanding and education 

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from the policy makers in that 
period of time that realizes I 

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wasn't that clever. 
They actually time locked this 

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00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,480
Bitcoin for us so we couldn't 
touch it. 

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And, you know, you avoid a 
situation like what happened 

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during COVID where Joe Biden 
sold down hundreds of millions 

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of barrels of the the strategic 
oil reserve that the US was 

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hoarding. 
Now all of a sudden, this is a 

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very different strategic asset 
that has huge upside. 

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And the ability to do that means
that from a protection 

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perspective of price, you are 
going to, I think, protect 

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yourself from the government 
dumping hundreds of thousands or

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millions of Bitcoin on the 
market that will not be absorbed

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00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,440
by the market. 
So you'll have wild 

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fluctuations. 
So that's a really positive 

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thing. 
The final thing that happened in

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this first quarter was the 
repeal of SAB 121. 

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I actually think it's bigger 
than the previous two because 

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this this goes to and you know, 
I'm a self custody guy. 

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I'm an advocate for that. 
I've got a business running self

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custody for, you know, with 
clients. 

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But one thing that's sort of 
gone under the radar, hasn't had

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much attention at all, is the 
repeal of SAB 121 in the US And 

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the US is kind of like a 
filtering system that whatever 

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they say goes globally as far 
as, you know, rules, regulations

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and adoption. 
Your brethren in the EU have 

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different ideas sometimes, but 
ultimately they'll do whatever 

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the US says. 
And this repeal of Tab 121 

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removes the cost of the bank's 
casting Bitcoin. 

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So the reason why it was so 
costly and why not a lot of 

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banks did it was because in 
order to hold a billion dollars 

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worth of Bitcoin, you had to 
hold a billion dollars worth of 

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00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:33,960
cash as a reserve to offset 
that. 

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00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,240
Now they've repealed that 121 
means they can hold a billion 

187
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,240
dollars worth of Bitcoin and 
there's no cost of capital IEA 

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00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,480
cash component to be left on the
balance sheet. 

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00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,360
They can they can use that 
billion dollars to then go and 

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00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,120
lend out $20 billion worth of 
phone lines or whatever they 

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00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,480
want to use it for. 
So I look at that and think that

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00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,720
is the first domino in a whole 
list of dominoes that is going 

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00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,400
to bring in Bitcoin into the 
banking sector. 

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00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,840
So they've now sorted Cassidy, 
obviously over the next five 

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00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,520
years that'll build out. 
But then there are going to be 

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00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,960
really simple products that are 
built on the back of that. 

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00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,440
We're going to have a savings 
product and a loan product, 

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00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,960
which will be built out. 
And you can see that Cantor 

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00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,600
Fitzgerald, you know, owned by 
Howard Lutnick or he's a major 

200
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,880
shareholder in that business. 
And yeah, one of the chief 

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00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,480
administrators in Trump's 
organization or Trump's 

202
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,080
administration, they're looking 
at putting, putting to work $2 

203
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,160
billion in in the loan market. 
And that's only made possible 

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00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,960
because of the repeal of Set 
121. 

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00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,680
So all of these things are 
lining up that we're going to, 

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00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,840
whether we like it or not, have 
had this filter through the 

207
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,840
banking system over the next 5 
to 10 years. 

208
00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,280
Bitcoin custody is evolving and 
while self custody is important,

209
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,600
it has its own risks and 
trade-offs. 

210
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,560
Onramp is pioneering a new 
standard Multi institution 

211
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:52,920
custody, which eliminates single
points of failure, adding fault 

212
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,040
tolerance and redundancy to your
custody setup. 

213
00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,000
On ramp secures your Bitcoin in 
a segregated cold storage multi 

214
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,720
signature vault guarded by tree 
independent institutional grade 

215
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,360
custodians, none of which have 
unilateral control. 

216
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:09,520
Your funds are fully auditable 
on chain cannot be re 

217
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,000
hypothecated and can only move 
or withdrawn at your explicit 

218
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,000
direction. 
Multi institution custody 

219
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,320
removes the technical, mental 
and physical burdens of private 

220
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,560
key management, providing 
unparalleled Peace of Mind for 

221
00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:24,600
you and your loved ones. 
Bitcoin is money, and as the 

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00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,840
price continues to appreciate, 
On Ramp helps you seamlessly tap

223
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,520
into financial services like 
trading, inheritance, insurance,

224
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,080
loans, Iras, and more, all 
without compromising on security

225
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,240
or accessibility. 
Check out on rampbitcoin.com 

226
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,040
through the link below and 
schedule a consultation with On 

227
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,760
Ramp team to get to know them 
and learn more about their 

228
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,200
offering. 
So when we look at the market 

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00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,080
right now and we are at 86 Ki 
think many bitcoins are thinking

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00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,800
like yeah, you're, you're it's 
crazy. 

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00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,600
It should be a 200K or 300K just
based on all the things that 

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we've learned especially this 
this quarter. 

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So is the market then wrong or 
is it right? 

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Like how should we view it? 
You know what, this is going to 

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00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,600
be particularly unsettling for a
few people to hear, but the 

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00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,120
market is always right. 
And sadly it's our expectations 

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of other people's understanding 
of Bitcoin that is ultimately 

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00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,320
wrong. 
And I share this with you that I

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think good point and and I don't
sort of there is no hyperbole 

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00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,760
when I tell you this, but if the
world understood Bitcoin the way

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00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,960
I see it, then we would have a 
multi billion dollar Bitcoin. 

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00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,480
It's just that's how it would 
operate. 

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00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,840
It would fill in so many holes 
that I see in the financial 

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system. 
And I look at this and think 

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that has the ability to solve so
many problems that we're 

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00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:46,160
currently facing. 
Now, just because I see it and 

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think this would be, you know, 
an accessible solution to a lot 

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00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,880
of the problems that we're 
facing, doesn't mean the rest of

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the world does. 
And sadly, you know, back to 

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00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,680
Bitcoin being a consensus 
mechanism, the rest of the world

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00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,400
needs to find that consensus of 
what I believe to be true. 

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00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,360
And this is what's so important 
about the work that you do, you 

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00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,440
know, up to 138 podcasts now 
hearing all of these differing 

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00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,800
opinions, trying to educate 
millennials about, you know, why

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00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,760
this is important. 
And This is why, you know, I 

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00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,000
think you have one of the most 
important podcasts out there 

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00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,480
because it's not going to be the
boomers who rush headlong into 

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00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,600
this. 
They've already done it. 

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00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,800
They're reluctant to change. 
They've they've they've made it 

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00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,440
in their, you know, they've 
either made it or they haven't 

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00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,280
made it doing what they're doing
and they're reluctant to change.

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As we get older, it's just, you 
know, proven out that you are 

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00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,480
less prone to changing. 
And this is where Bitcoin to me 

264
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,480
represents a massive 
opportunity, an outsized 

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00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,720
opportunity for millennials to 
adopt this and really ride that 

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00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,400
wave up in a similar way to, you
know, our baby boom, excuse me, 

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00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:53,000
baby boomers had a massive wave 
up, massive tailwinds for 40 

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years from 1980. 
They had interest rates go from 

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18 to 20% down to 0, massive 
tailwind. 

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00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,320
You had property prices, you 
know, unless you were lucky with

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00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,640
a few little bumps along the 
way, you had property prices 

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basically go 10 to 100 X in that
40 year period. 

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And I look at that and think now
that, you know, interest rates 

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00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,840
have changed, we've now in a 
period of quantitative 

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00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,080
tightening, we've watched in the
last five years, the 10 year 

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00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,360
bond, bond rate in the US go 
from half a percent up to over 

277
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,040
5%. 
And now it's back down to about 

278
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,600
4.3%. 
Maybe that trade is over, the 

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00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,200
boomer trade is over of 
property. 

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00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,520
But guess what? 
And and this is where I think 

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00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,160
the opportunity for millennials 
is Bitcoin is the equivalent of 

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00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,840
the property market for the last
40 years, except that 100 X that

283
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,080
you had to wait 40 years for in 
property. 

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00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,560
You're probably going to get 
that condensed into the next 10 

285
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,440
years. 
So I look at this and think, if 

286
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,280
I'm a millennial, I'm trying to 
figure out how to get as much of

287
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,280
this Bitcoin as I can because 
the next 10 years, there's 

288
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,200
nothing that comes close to this
as an investment opportunity. 

289
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:55,800
You know, property's not going 
to do it. 

290
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,560
Stocks are. 
Stocks are definitely not going 

291
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,040
to do it. 
And the bonds are just that. 

292
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,160
That stuff's worth less than 
toilet paper. 

293
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,520
So I look at this and I think, 
yeah, in my day-to-day, I 

294
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,280
literally look at, you know, 
what are the investment 

295
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,520
opportunities out there, whether
it's stocks, bonds, property, 

296
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,800
commodities, alternative assets,
private equity, venture capital.

297
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,760
And I look at this and I think, 
well, this is easy. 

298
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,640
This is like the simplest 
decision that one can make. 

299
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,400
It's just a matter of 
understanding what you're doing.

300
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,800
Yeah. 
To add to that, as a 

301
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,120
professional financial advisor. 
Yeah, true. 

302
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,000
Yeah, Yeah, OK. 
That's the pitch for millennials

303
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,920
guys. 
Like I could not have done that 

304
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,920
any better. 
But yeah, I, I agree. 

305
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,640
I think I, I think you're 
totally right. 

306
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,800
Obviously this is, this is kind 
of my, my focus and also part of

307
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,640
my, my thesis, why I really want
to focus on millennials that I, 

308
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,960
I, yeah, I see this as the 
biggest, but also the only 

309
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,560
opportunity to actually build 
wealth for, for just this 

310
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,560
generation. 
But yeah, again, it's just hard 

311
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,520
to understand, right? 
There's so many layers to it 

312
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,400
before you really get to, I 
think also where you are at, you

313
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,880
know, like if you said like all 
the global trade will be settled

314
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,360
in Bitcoin, all the daily global
trade will be settled in 

315
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,800
Bitcoin, and then we're at like 
billions of dollars per per 

316
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,800
Bitcoin. 
Like that is very far away. 

317
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,080
But yeah, if people go back to 
episode 2, they can listen to 

318
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,800
your argumentation and it's 
actually very, very rational, 

319
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,760
right? 
But yeah, just the unlearning of

320
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,680
all your preconceptions and, and
and all these things like that, 

321
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,400
that just takes time. 
It's funny, since we since we 

322
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,240
had that conversation, I think 
that argument has gotten more to

323
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,760
being the truth than further 
away from it. 

324
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,000
I agree. 
And so we'll watch how this 

325
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,360
plays out over the next 10 
years. 

326
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,280
Yeah, because a big part of that
is the multi, multi polar world 

327
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,520
that we're kind of like moving, 
moving into, right. 

328
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,920
And the whole point of Bitcoin 
is that you can trade without 

329
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,640
trust, which it looks like it's 
going to become increasingly 

330
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,960
more more important, right? 
So, yeah, if I find that very 

331
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,160
interesting. 
The one thing before I wanted to

332
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,600
go to like, what's what's your 
view on on the rest of this year

333
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:04,599
is what are the most important 
changes for people to look at 

334
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,040
you? 
You mentioned like Seb, Seb 121,

335
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,400
that's of course more like a 
technically financial thing, 

336
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,680
right? 
That will open up at least the 

337
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:19,240
market for banks. 
But do you think there will be a

338
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,440
lot of a lot of competition 
there because like, why? 

339
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,079
Why would I store my Bitcoin at 
a bank or why wouldn't I store 

340
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:30,600
it at like a Bitcoin native bank
made by Bitcoiners, for example?

341
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,840
How, how do you kind of like see
that evolve? 

342
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,560
Both. 
This isn't going to be popular, 

343
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:42,480
but I'll tell you how I see it. 
You are going to break down 

344
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,400
lending. 
It's all going to revolve around

345
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,720
lending and the banks are at a 
huge advantage when it comes to 

346
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:54,360
lending on Bitcoin because there
are now a host of things that 

347
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:59,520
can open up that opportunity for
the banks to succeed with that. 

348
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:04,600
And I just want to maybe take a 
side note to give you a very 

349
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,560
brief history lesson of 
borrowing money on residential 

350
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,680
property and some of the 
iterations of that borrowing on 

351
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,480
property that has come to market
over the last 40-50 years, that 

352
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,080
has totally changed that as an 
asset class. 

353
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:24,920
And if you look at 2 drivers for
asset prices, the number one is 

354
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,680
availability of credit on it. 
And #2 when it comes to property

355
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,880
and demographics. 
So is the demographic growing 

356
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,120
and people are wanting that good
more? 

357
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,760
Or is it declining? 
And sadly, and this is to the 

358
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,640
point about property, we've got 
baby boomers sitting on nearly 

359
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,680
80% of the wealth in property in
the Western, Western 

360
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,840
democracies. 
And young people can't afford to

361
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,880
buy all the properties that 
they're holding onto. 

362
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,080
So it's just a simple law of 
supply and demand. 

363
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,200
Something's got to roll off and 
the price will have to drop at 

364
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,040
some point in time. 
In Australia, we're sitting on a

365
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:00,560
in Sydney, we're sitting on the 
average median house price is 

366
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,520
$1.6 million and the average 
income is $100,000 a year. 

367
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:11,840
SO1 average home is worth 16 
years of income before tax, not 

368
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,320
after tax, it's 30, two years 
after tax just for the home. 

369
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,040
So I look at this and think, and
well, that's before, that's 

370
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,440
after income tax, 32 years and 
before any cost of living or 

371
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:28,280
interest on the property. 
So it's wildly skewed to the 

372
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,080
downside. 
I think as far as risk goes. 

373
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,520
And, and this is where back to, 
you know, Bitcoin, there are 

374
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,120
policies that the governments 
can institute to actually 

375
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,920
encourage borrowing and saving 
in Bitcoin. 

376
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,360
So if you look at some of the 
policies that were instituted 

377
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,640
for residential property, the 
banks used to lend 50 like 50% 

378
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,560
loan to value ratios. 
So if you want $100,000 

379
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,280
property, you had to put in 
50,000. 

380
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,000
They had policies in the 70s 
that they wouldn't give single 

381
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,920
women a home loan because they 
deemed them a high risk of 

382
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,440
forfeiting or foreclosure on the
home. 

383
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,880
Because they might have a baby 
and then no longer work and they

384
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,080
didn't want to put that, that 
person through that. 

385
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,560
Now that sounds highly 
misogynistic in today's terms, 

386
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,640
but that was the reality 50 
years ago. 

387
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,000
And they evened up the, the 
lending so that women could 

388
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,040
borrow. 
And the other thing is that 

389
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,600
they, they moved the load of 
value ratios from 50% to 95%. 

390
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,840
So now all you need is a 5% 
deposit. 

391
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,160
You need 10% of the original 
deposit that you had. 

392
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,120
So all of a sudden, what's that 
going to do? 

393
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,040
You can borrow 95% of the 
property. 

394
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,000
That's going to jam the property
prices up. 

395
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,000
Now, there are two instances of 
government influencing the 

396
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,320
credit availability on an asset.
And what I'm saying is the 

397
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,080
government has the ability to do
that to Bitcoin as well. 

398
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,440
What if they said, hey, we're 
going to set up a Fannie Mae or 

399
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,560
Freddie Mac like they did for US
residential property that's 

400
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,640
going to support the purchase 
and loaning of Bitcoin? 

401
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,040
These things can be done. 
It's just a matter of will. 

402
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,520
And we've just seen that the 
Trump administration has a 

403
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,120
propensity to do things that are
different and to institute 

404
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,080
policies that they think are 
really good for America. 

405
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,640
But I can't think of a better 
policy that they could institute

406
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,920
that would allow American 
citizens to go and borrow 

407
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:23,760
whatever they can afford on 
buying Bitcoin and assuming that

408
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,480
they had that loan in good stead
for say A5 or A10 year period. 

409
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,600
The government would cover the 
volatility of that asset if it 

410
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,520
dropped below what the the what 
they actually borrowed. 

411
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,840
So these are all the things that
are going to be coming to 

412
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,480
Bitcoin, but we're just not 
thinking of it yet. 

413
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:45,720
What do you think about the talk
about selling gold to buy 

414
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,840
Bitcoin? 
As you know, some people are 

415
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,480
talking about in, in, in, in the
state. 

416
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:58,320
I think that's a great idea 
because if I'm looking at this 

417
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,760
through the most brutal of 
lenses, and yeah, if you have 

418
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,080
your war game on, that makes 
perfect sense. 

419
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,200
You go and you destroy the price
of the asset that your enemies 

420
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,680
are holding by dumping it on the
market. 

421
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,800
You go and buy an asset that 
they can't purchase and they 

422
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,520
can't steal from you, which 
makes perfect, perfect sense to 

423
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,440
me. 
And most importantly, it's 

424
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,440
absolute digital scarcity, 
meaning there's no way that they

425
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,520
can produce any more of it. 
And when they figure out what 

426
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,160
they've done to them, it's too 
late and they'll be selling 

427
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,400
their gold on the market, but 
they'll be driving the price 

428
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,680
further down, in which case you 
could turn around and buy it for

429
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,840
nothing. 
And the US can do that anyway 

430
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,440
because they hold the the global
reserve money printer. 

431
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:50,960
So I look at this and think it, 
it's extremely predatory, but it

432
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,720
makes perfect sense if you're in
a war and a lot of people think 

433
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,800
we are. 
So I think, you know, the US has

434
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,760
the ability to do it. 
Will they or will they not? 

435
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,080
I'm not sure. 
But to me it makes logical 

436
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,640
sense. 
If you're playing chess and you 

437
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,960
want to win, then that's seems 
like a perfectly logical thing 

438
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,080
to do, albeit brutal and 
ruthless. 

439
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,800
Yeah. 
I personally think that like the

440
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,560
line between, even if they sell 
like 5% of the gold, I think it 

441
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:28,360
already shows that Bitcoin is at
at least as important. 

442
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,240
But over time people will 
realize that it's, you know, 

443
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,680
superior to gold. 
But I think just that signal, 

444
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,920
like, I don't think it has to be
a big percentage, if that makes 

445
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,400
sense. 
Like it's just a signal like, 

446
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,680
OK, sell part of my gold. 
I buy Bitcoin as a, a strategic 

447
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,640
reserve or as a national asset, 
right? 

448
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,720
And and that, that will show 
that it's at least at the same 

449
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,560
level and the price is 
definitely not reflecting that. 

450
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,160
So I think that could be a big 
catalyst as well. 

451
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,640
But it's, yeah, it's, I think 
it's all about perception, not 

452
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,680
necessarily about fully 
understanding. 

453
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:04,160
Right. 
And it's intent. 

454
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,000
What what it is is that is an 
intent. 

455
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,000
You get to show the world your 
intention. 

456
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,680
And yeah, incentives, Dr. 
Outcomes. 

457
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,880
Yeah, I agree. 
And so how do you look at the at

458
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,560
the rest of of this year? 
What do you think will be like 

459
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,720
big drivers? 
I think many people are talking 

460
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,440
about global liquidity and to 
moving up again. 

461
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,120
Yeah. 
What are the biggest things that

462
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,440
you're looking at? 
I think you nailed the big one, 

463
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,040
but I think there's going to be 
a potential surprise. 

464
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,480
So if we back out what you've 
just said, one of the biggest 

465
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,760
announcement that we saw this 
quarter was after you know a 

466
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,640
four year, well what is it 3-4? 
Well call it a three or four 

467
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,040
year period of quantitative 
tightening and like interest 

468
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,320
rates going up, we've now had 
Jerome Powell, Fed Chairman come

469
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,000
out and say that he is looking 
at the end of quantitative 

470
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,000
tightening and what that means 
is we're close to quantitative 

471
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,400
easing. 
So if quantitative tightening is

472
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,960
ending, then he's about to turn 
the money printer on. 

473
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:09,680
The one thing I am not sure of 
is the the dynamic between Scott

474
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,680
Percent, the new Treasury 
Secretary, and Jerome Powell, 

475
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,560
the Fed chair. 
Now, Scott Percent's taken over 

476
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:24,160
from Janet Yellen and Janet 
Yellen was was not working in 

477
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,200
conjunction with Jerome Powell. 
You had J Pal basically slamming

478
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,920
on the brakes, rising interest 
rates. 

479
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,080
And then you had the secretary, 
Treasury Secretary Yellen out 

480
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,800
there giving money away like it 
was like it was water. 

481
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,480
And So what you had was this 
weird dichotomy in the economy 

482
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,920
where you had J Pal slamming on 
the brakes, trying to slow this 

483
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,000
thing down because he didn't 
want the inflation to run away. 

484
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
And at the same time, you had 
Janet Yellen just throwing cash 

485
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,120
around like it was, yeah, like 
the interest rates were 0% 

486
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:59,240
again. 
Now that role has now changed. 

487
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,600
Yellen's out the sense in and I 
agree with you, money supply has

488
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,320
gone up. 
One of the craziest things you 

489
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,080
can look at is the M1 money 
supply of China over the last, 

490
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,920
call it three months, it's 
nearly doubled. 

491
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,680
That is a great forward-looking 
indicator. 

492
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,360
China is a huge economy and that
will have some flow through. 

493
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,200
If we do have this M2 money 
supply explosion that everyone's

494
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,960
talking of, then we will have 
Bitcoin ripped faster than 

495
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,840
anything else. 
But if you look at the 

496
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,240
geopolitics, what's happening 
right now, you've got the new 

497
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,200
administration. 
You've got Scott Percent needs 

498
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,880
to make his mark and he needs to
get the markets under control. 

499
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,240
He needs to let them know that 
he is in control now. 

500
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,400
And what we've got is really a 
role reversal between Jay Powell

501
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,160
and Scott Percent, Scott 
Percent, Trump, Musk and 

502
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,480
Lutnick. 
They want to get that Dick down 

503
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,320
and they want to show the market
that they're capable of being 

504
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,360
fiscally responsible so that 
they can get that 10 year note 

505
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,880
down to three, 2 1/2, whatever 
it might be, because that's the 

506
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,760
the key indicator rate that's 
going to set the the benchmark 

507
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,440
for every other rate in the US 
economy. 

508
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,120
Which is also very important for
them this year, right, with the 

509
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,960
rollover of the debt, like they 
need that to bring that cost of 

510
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,680
that new debt that they're that 
they need in order to pay the 

511
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,920
old debt off. 
Like they need to get that down,

512
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,960
right? 
Because eventually they want to 

513
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,320
get all the interest payments 
down. 

514
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,800
Because what's, what's really, 
you know, sort of it's hard 

515
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,120
talking about this, but you 
know, five years ago Trump was 

516
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:32,240
in power and the interest rates 
were half a percent. 

517
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,640
And he said, why don't we just 
issue 100 year bond And 

518
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,920
Secretary, well, Treasury 
Secretary Yellen turned around 

519
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,520
and said, no, let's, let's not 
do that. 

520
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,880
Let's put that on a short year 
term. 

521
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,720
So Fast forward to where we are 
today, we've got 9 trillion of 

522
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,800
the 36 trillion rolling out, 25%
of the US federal debt is needs 

523
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,240
to be refinanced this year. 
And so they need to get that 

524
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,080
interest rate down dramatically.
And what's really quite an 

525
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,880
anomaly if you look at it in 
global terms, you've got the the

526
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,600
the US 10 year is trading at 4.3
give or take. 

527
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,240
And you've got the 10 year 
German Borgia is trading at 2.7.

528
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,240
Now I can't believe that there's
a 1 1/2 percent differential 

529
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,960
between the German bond and the 
Usus bond. 

530
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,200
The tenure like in not in any of
the data that I look at is the 

531
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,240
German economy doing better than
the US. 

532
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,360
And the problem is, is the 
German economy is the best of a 

533
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,600
bad bunch when it comes to EU 
economies. 

534
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:32,640
Now if I'm a you know, the risk 
reward, you know you should be 

535
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,360
rewarded with the lowest rate if
you're a lower risk. 

536
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,120
And I look at this and think the
German, the German economy is at

537
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,680
much greater risk relative to 
the US, particularly if you take

538
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,680
into consideration the fear of 
war with Russia. the US is on 

539
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,800
the other side of the world 
that's got better metrics from 

540
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,720
GDP, inflation, just about 
everything you look at 

541
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,960
unemployment, all those numbers 
are better yet that the German 

542
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,120
born is training at a 1 1/2% 
discount on the 10 year. 

543
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,800
Now, in my world, that should be
inverted. the US should be at 2 

544
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,920
1/2 and the German bull should 
be at 4.3. 

545
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,440
Now, Trump and percent probably 
feel the same way. 

546
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,600
So they're going to do 
everything they can to really 

547
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,280
lower expectations, dampen 
expectations. 

548
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,000
And this is the thing that might
stop money printed. 

549
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,720
Go Burr is then having to 
refinance at $9 trillion and 

550
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,160
really smash that rate down to 2
1/2 percent. 

551
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,520
Refinance all of it, and then 
you can have it. 

552
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,800
So what what does that mean in 
Bitcoin terms? 

553
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,880
To me what that means is we 
might be, we might have a much 

554
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,240
later bull run than people 
expect. 

555
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,640
And if you overlay a political 
context on what they're trying 

556
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,640
to achieve, they need to have 
probably a 12 month bull run in 

557
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,800
the stocks and broader economy 
before the midterms, which means

558
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,200
we could see for the next six 
months, I believe a real 

559
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,240
crushing of the economy to a 
point where they get that 2 1/2 

560
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,800
percent that they're trying to 
target. 

561
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,880
And then once they've got that 
rolled it over blocked in all 

562
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,640
the rates, it's like, right, 
we're here boys, we're running. 

563
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,200
But for Bitcoiners, it's like, 
no, we're ready to party now, 

564
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,840
like 30% off. 
We want this thing to go to a 

565
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,680
million, let's do it. 
But they've got they control it.

566
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,120
They've got different ideas. 
If you have your Bitcoin in self

567
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,200
custody, where are you keeping 
your Bitcoin seed words? 

568
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,560
For me, there's only one way and
it's backing up my seed phrase 

569
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,240
with stamp seats. 
It's a single durable plate 

570
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,200
without any parts or materials. 
Stamp your words into solid 

571
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,280
titanium, which is fire 
resistant, water resistant and 

572
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,920
built to last. 
Unlike etching or engraving, 

573
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,520
stamp seats better. 
The tools help you to deeply 

574
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,360
stamp every letter for permanent
readability, making it easy for 

575
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,200
you to protect your generational
wealth. 

576
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,800
Don't risk losing your seat 
phrase on paper. 

577
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,480
Get a stamp seat plate for 
unmatched protection. 

578
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:01,240
You can use code Brom that's BR 
AM for 15% off at stampseat.com.

579
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,760
So the, I think this is an 
interesting point, right? 

580
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,440
Because I want to ask you like 
eventually they kind of want to 

581
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,800
weaken, weaken the dollar at 
least for some time. 

582
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,840
But yeah, like how do you, how 
do you think, how do you think 

583
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,960
that will affect Bitcoin? 
Because what I, I think is an 

584
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,160
interesting conversation or 
topic is like, is Bitcoin risk 

585
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,400
on or is it risk off? 
And you see BlackRock saying 

586
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,760
like it's risk off. 
I think we both think it's risk 

587
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,680
off, obviously, because we 
basically just move to, to a 

588
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,840
whole new and different monetary
system, right? 

589
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,480
So we just literally leave the 
other system. 

590
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,600
Sadly, it's going to take a lot 
longer than you and I would 

591
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,960
like. 
So I think this is going to be a

592
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,400
process of the next 10 years 
really playing out because what 

593
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:51,360
we have is a really infantile 
sized market in Bitcoin and 

594
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,440
Bitcoin is hamstrung by two 
things. 

595
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,840
Firstly, it's a very small 
market cap and it's quite 

596
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,160
infantile in its development. 
So the problem with that is, 

597
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,160
well, the third thing in 
addition to that is it's 247365 

598
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,080
liquid, which means that is the 
first asset that gets sold. 

599
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,800
And so although you and I 
understand Bitcoin to be the 

600
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,400
risk off asset, a lot of people 
confuse risk and volatility and 

601
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,320
they want to, you know, conflate
the two. 

602
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,400
And the the real problem is, is 
that if you have a margin call 

603
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,320
coming up the next day, because 
the Asian market tanks over the 

604
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,640
weekend and there's a huge shock
to the system. 

605
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,480
If you're sitting there on a 
Sunday night at 9:00 in New 

606
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,760
York, there's only one market in
the world that's open at that 

607
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,640
time, and that's Bitcoin. 
And so you were going to sell? 

608
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,040
Rep for the Monday morning, you 
mean? 

609
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,680
Correct. 
You're going to sell whatever 

610
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,440
you have to do to make that 
margin call in the morning. 

611
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,640
And this is what the hedge 
funds, this is what the traders 

612
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,560
do. 
They hold this as a hedge. 

613
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,840
And the second there's a spike 
in the market, you'll see them 

614
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,440
sell that. 
And this is where back in sort 

615
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,640
of March 2020, we had nearly a 
30% decline in a 48 hour period.

616
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,400
Now why was that? 
Because it was a Sunday night. 

617
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,520
They needed liquidity. 
They needed to meet their 

618
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,800
obligations the next day. 
And they did whatever they had 

619
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,640
to do. 
They sold as much Bitcoin as 

620
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,200
they could that they needed to 
meet the obligations the next 

621
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,560
day. 
Sadly, there's no other asset in

622
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,440
the world that is going to take 
the place of that. 

623
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,760
So although it's a risk off 
asset, it's going to trade like 

624
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,360
a risk on asset because there's 
no market in the world that has 

625
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,560
that liquidity profile. 
There's no market open on a 

626
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,560
Sunday night at 6:00 in New York
other than Bitcoin. 

627
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,320
We spin that as a feature. 
Sorry. 

628
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,040
Is that good? 
We spin that as a feature? 

629
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,040
I think. 
I think it is a feature, right? 

630
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,320
I mean, it's when we talked 
about countries, I had to think 

631
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,800
about a tweet. 
I saw it's permissionless 

632
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,200
cross-border final settlement. 
I read that like last week. 

633
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,440
And then I thought, yeah, that's
it. 

634
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Like it's constantly like it's 
the only thing you can move 

635
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,640
constantly everywhere whenever 
instantly, right. 

636
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,000
And so, yeah, that's a good 
thing. 

637
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,120
But then the perception of I 
think that's a good explainer 

638
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,600
that you that, that you just 
gave like in, in the perception 

639
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,199
of people seeing Bitcoin tank, 
you know, with that carry trade 

640
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,800
and like over the weekend, 
they're like, yeah, people are 

641
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,639
dumping Bitcoin. 
But I think your explainer is 

642
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:18,679
actually what is happening 
because yeah, if you truly 

643
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,960
understood Bitcoin, you would 
probably not use it like that, 

644
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,159
you know, and you would you 
would see it as a risk off asset

645
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:31,520
and just keep stacking it. 
Yeah, just basically that. 

646
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,520
Agree and and this is where 
because market cap of Bitcoin is

647
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,760
so small, like it's less than $2
trillion on a relative scale. 

648
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,840
As Bitcoin grows into, you know,
a 10s of trillion dollar asset, 

649
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,400
hundreds of trillions and what I
think will be thousands of 

650
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,760
trillions of dollars per, you 
know, market cap, as that grows 

651
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,120
in size, that will be able to 
absorb more and more market 

652
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,760
participants on a Sunday night 
selling. 

653
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,520
So we're not going to have those
massive drawdowns when there's 

654
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,400
low liquidity in the market. 
And the other thing I should say

655
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,360
is, and how do we spend this? 
There's a positive, not a 

656
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,960
negative is once people have 
finished selling, what's the 

657
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,600
first asset they buy in and 
what's the asset that recovers 

658
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,840
faster than everything else? 
That's Bitcoin. 

659
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,480
So, you know, once they've dealt
with the liquidity problem, the 

660
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,800
first asset they're rushing to 
buy to get back is Bitcoin. 

661
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,520
And so parallel to this, so I 
think, yeah, there's some things

662
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,680
that need time for people to 
understand. 

663
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,640
But parallel to this, we do see 
like more institutional 

664
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,680
investors are planning to 
increase their Bitcoin 

665
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,440
allocation. 
I think we have some 13 F 

666
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,640
filings coming up also for, for 
Q1, right? 

667
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,040
So we're going to see companies 
that that hold over 100 million 

668
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,800
in, in, in new assets. 
So, so every time that these 

669
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,360
filings go public, we see new 
companies that have adopted 

670
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,520
Bitcoin. 
That's also constantly 

671
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,680
increasing. 
What do you expect is going to 

672
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,480
be the the effect of this on the
market? 

673
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,560
Because, yeah, we, I think 
there's like multiple parallel 

674
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,160
roads that are being our path 
that are being developed, right?

675
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,960
And, you know, each day more and
more people understand what 

676
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,440
Bitcoin is. 
They move into it. 

677
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,320
You know, the institutional 
investors do that too. 

678
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,800
So the holder rate will go up, 
more Bitcoin will be huddled. 

679
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,720
I think that's what actually is 
a catalyst for the volatility. 

680
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,760
You know, if we what we just 
talked about, you know, as if 

681
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,600
there's just less Bitcoin that's
traded, you know, the volatility

682
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,120
is going to be higher. 
So yeah, how do how do you look 

683
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,240
at at that also, you know, with 
regards to to the work that you 

684
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:40,080
do? 
I think the institutional 

685
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,680
adoption has taken on in the 
last 12 months, a dramatic 

686
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:50,080
shift, and 12 months ago it was 
a career risk to be advising on 

687
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Bitcoin and now it's a career 
risk not to be advising on. 

688
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,040
And truth be told, we haven't 
seen anywhere near the level of 

689
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,680
corporate adoption and 
institutional adoption that I 

690
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,040
would have expected by now. 
My expectation is over the next 

691
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,840
5 to 10 years, we have a 5 to 
10% allocation to Bitcoin for 

692
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,960
many institutions. 
And I think that's on the low 

693
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,960
side. 
So I look at this and think 

694
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,600
that's an that's a huge and 
obscene amount of capital it 

695
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,440
needs to flow into Bitcoin in 
order to fill that requirement. 

696
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,600
And what's interesting about 
this, and this is where I 

697
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,160
probably go really, really deep 
with you if you wanted to on 

698
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,800
this, but on a really shallow 
level, Bitcoin represents an 

699
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,640
asset that is not going to 
affect mainstream when Wall 

700
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,800
Street and institutions 
speculate on it. 

701
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,160
Now, this is a huge development 
because this is the first asset 

702
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,680
that's come to Wall Street that 
hasn't had a downstream 

703
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,080
consequence or a social impact 
on Main Street. 

704
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,880
And I look at this and think 
when the world figures this out,

705
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,320
the institutions, Wall Street, 
black rocks of the world are 

706
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,800
going to spend most of their 
time speculating on Bitcoin and 

707
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,480
coupling that with government 
bonds or treasuries. 

708
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:14,800
And what that is going to do is 
that's going to dislocate almost

709
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,160
permanently the risk that Wall 
Street has inflicted on Main 

710
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,520
Street for the last 40 or 50 
years, well, in perpetuity. 

711
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,600
And So what we have now is a 
speculative asset that Wall 

712
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,120
Street can play amongst 
themselves and blow themselves 

713
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,360
up with that's not going to have
downstream consequences and 

714
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,440
costs to the mainstream world. 
And I look at this and I think a

715
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:42,120
very real, real world 
application of this is Larry 

716
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,160
Fink in the 1980s created his 
tokenization of mortgage-backed 

717
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,760
securities. 
Now if you follow that forward 

718
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,800
to 2008, the evolution of that 
product created the global 

719
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,280
financial crisis where they 
packaged up and securitized 

720
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,040
through tokens and not the 
tokens we know, but they 

721
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,120
securitized through tokens the 
entire residential property 

722
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,200
market of the US And what did 
that lead to? 

723
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,080
That led to poor credit 
decisions, lower quality of 

724
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,320
borrowers and it effectively led
to prices running up 

725
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,640
dramatically, cost of housing 
getting out of hand and then a 

726
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,680
huge pop in the US housing 
bubble. 

727
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,440
And that was all made possible 
because of the speculation that 

728
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,320
Wall Street was making and the 
demand that they had on those 

729
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,720
residential and commercial 
backed mortgage securities. 

730
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,240
And now we have an asset that is
removed from Main Street that 

731
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,040
Wall Street can speculate on. 
The problem is it's just such a 

732
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,280
small $2 trillion industry at 
the moment, not even. 

733
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,160
But through time, my expectation
is that will be a multi, well, 

734
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,280
multi. 
That'll be a multi quadrillion 

735
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,720
dollar market cap and they'll be
able to speculate and remove the

736
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:55,480
risk to Main Street from the 
Wall Street speculation. 

737
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,640
Yeah, one thought I have there 
is that they are probably going 

738
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,520
to do that, but the the 
absolute. 

739
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,320
Scarcity of Bitcoin will will 
bite them eventually, right? 

740
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,480
Like I think that and, and, and 
forced transparency. 

741
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,000
I call that forced transparency,
right? 

742
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,840
Like you cannot play these 
abstracted games anymore. 

743
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,800
They will try, but when you get 
called upon, you know the the 

744
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,320
proof of reserves, for example, 
yeah, you should show them. 

745
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,280
And if you don't show them, then
you instantly lose trust. 

746
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,080
So I think that's a very 
interesting thing that is going 

747
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,000
to play out in some way. 
I think there will be like some 

748
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:41,680
Trat 5 firms that will have huge
damage from it that will show 

749
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,120
kind of like the games that that
they are playing. 

750
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,440
Absolutely. 
But it's not possible on 

751
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,400
Bitcoin. 
No, they're trying. 

752
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,240
People will try and game it. 
You're you're correct. 

753
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,880
And a lot of people are going to
get hurt. 

754
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:59,960
And yeah, sort of a message 
that's going to become really 

755
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,920
important for us long term, I 
think is, you know, you're only 

756
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,880
going to leave your Bitcoin in 
custody that you're prepared to 

757
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,800
lose because the banks at one 
point in time will blow up. 

758
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,080
The governments won't step in to
support it or bail them out, in 

759
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,000
which case you will lose your 
Bitcoin and you'll have to deal 

760
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,080
with the consequences. 
And there are plenty of examples

761
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,200
of Bitcoin lenders going to the 
wall and really creating havoc. 

762
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,480
But it's just going to be at a 
scale that we haven't seen and 

763
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,160
we're not aware of yet because 
it's going to be on a basically 

764
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,520
a retail baking scale. 
Yeah. 

765
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,840
Well, you mentioned lending and 
also a bit before I wanted to 

766
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,360
ask about that. 
It kind of feels like 20252026 

767
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:48,480
will be like the period where 
Bitcoin backed loans will really

768
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,960
enter enter the market. 
There are many, many players 

769
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,200
that are setting this up, are 
launching this. 

770
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,920
I know you are working on 
something. 

771
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,080
Yeah. 
How how do you see that grow 

772
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:03,080
this year and how important is 
that for the evolution of 

773
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:09,360
Bitcoin I? 
Think it's a natural evolution 

774
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,920
for Bitcoin and a lot of people,
the hard money guys, the early 

775
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,040
sophomoks, look at that and 
think, no, we don't want to be a

776
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,360
part of that. 
But I look at this and think 

777
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,840
there are going to be people who
want to speculate with their 

778
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,920
Bitcoin or who don't want to 
sell their Bitcoin, but want to 

779
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,160
monetize some of that time that 
they've invested in Bitcoin. 

780
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,400
And a way to do that without 
having to sell you Bitcoin and 

781
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,920
pay the tax consequences on that
is going to be through 

782
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,480
effectively borrowing on your 
Bitcoin. 

783
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,000
And I look at this and I think 
there are going to be two ways 

784
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,360
to structure this. 
And there are sort of two 

785
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,000
offerings in the marketplace 
that I see. 

786
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,600
And I think there's room for a 
third, but we might have to talk

787
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,160
about that another time. 
But first two offerings that I 

788
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,800
see you've got, you've got an 
offering that classifieds 

789
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,040
Bitcoin as property. 
So you've got your huddle, 

790
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,200
huddle you debify and maybe your
leaden that would be classified 

791
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,440
in that as an Unchained and on 
ramp with arch lending. 

792
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,960
So I look at those four 
offerings in the marketplace and

793
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,000
I look at that and think they 
classified Bitcoin as property, 

794
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,040
meaning that they are not going 
to re hypothecate your Bitcoin 

795
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,080
and the interest rate is going 
to be over 10% in order to 

796
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,600
achieve that. 
But what that means is that 

797
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,800
lender is not going to re 
hypothecate your Bitcoin. 

798
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,400
You don't have to worry about 
them lending that one Bitcoin 

799
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,480
out to 10 people and trading it 
and watching those people blow 

800
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:28,880
up and then they lose your 
Bitcoin. 

801
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,680
And on top of losing your 
Bitcoin, they've lent you 

802
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,360
$1,000,000 or whatever it might 
be. 

803
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,960
And then the creditor through a 
liquidation or administration 

804
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,720
comes to you and says, look, I 
know they lost your Bitcoin, but

805
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,320
you still owe them $1,000,000. 
Can you pay us? 

806
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:47,320
It's, it's insult to injury, 
but, and the first type is the 

807
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,360
property type and that's going 
to be with a much higher 

808
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,320
interest rate because it's 
classified as property. 

809
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,560
And then the second type is 
going to be classified as 

810
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,360
currency where the banks will 
put that on their balance sheet.

811
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,880
They will rehypothecate that 
somewhere to the tune of 10 to 

812
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,280
20X. 
And this is my conjecture that 

813
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,640
they are going to pay you to 
borrow money on your Bitcoin if 

814
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,120
you use that as collateral. 
And that's such a weird thing to

815
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,680
get your head around. 
But I'm certain with the way the

816
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,480
market's moving, if you look at 
how how lending works, when you 

817
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,120
can rehypothecate one Bitcoin to
the tune of 20X, which is what 

818
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,000
the current banking regulations 
in the Basel 3 accords allow the

819
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,320
banks to do. 
Well, if if one bitcoins call it

820
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,400
worth $1,000,000, they can lend 
out $20 million on a home loan 

821
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,560
because you can lend out that 
20X. 

822
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,760
And on that $20 million, they 
might be making a 2% margin or 

823
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,360
nearly $400,000 in interest. 
And I look at that and think 

824
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,800
there's going to be a bank 
globally who's prepared to cut 

825
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,600
you in on the revenues that 
they're making on the back of 

826
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,040
your Bitcoin. 
And this is the really 

827
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,480
interesting thing that I look at
and think Bitcoin's the first 

828
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,840
globally ubiquitous asset. 
And so you'll be able to shop 

829
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,560
any bank on earth to put your 
Bitcoin with. 

830
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,120
And the repeal of Seb 121 is one
of the most important things to 

831
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,400
allow this to happen. 
So this will happen over the 

832
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,360
next, say 5 or 10 years. 
You'll be able to go shopping. 

833
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,440
And you know, if you look at and
talk to all of the hedge funds, 

834
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,320
then probably the most 
interesting thing they've done 

835
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,720
over the last 30 years is that 
the yen carry trade. 

836
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:25,960
They borrowed money in Japanese 
yen, invested in the US stock 

837
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,520
market, and they crammed the 
difference, an arbitrage of 

838
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,800
probably somewhere between 5 or 
6% per annum. 

839
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,760
And I look at this and think 
when you hold Bitcoin, whether 

840
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,720
you're in, you know, Europe or 
you're in Australia or you're in

841
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:40,760
America, you'll be able to go to
the Japanese banks with your 

842
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,400
Bitcoin and borrow at 1%. 
And I look at this and think for

843
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,200
those people who hold Bitcoin as
their collateral, think of all 

844
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,000
of the industries that rely on 
cheap capital in order to get 

845
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,640
ahead. 
You know, it's every finance 

846
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,080
industry, it's property, it's 
building. 

847
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,800
If you've got cheap financing, 
you're going to have a huge 

848
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,800
advantage. 
The the two companies in the 

849
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,040
last 20 years who have had a 
distinct advantage in the cost 

850
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,720
of capital. 
The first company 20 years ago 

851
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,680
was Amazon and the second 
company that's really only 

852
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,800
identified that as a a huge 
advantage to them in the last 

853
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,480
five years is micro strategy. 
And they're probably two of the 

854
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,520
best performing assets over the 
last 20 years. 

855
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,960
And why is that? 
It's cost of capital. 

856
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,480
And So what happens when you can
bring the cost of capital on a 

857
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,160
personal level down to the 
lowest interest rate in the 

858
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,440
world? 
And sadly, you know the bank, 

859
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,680
you know the retail banks in 
Japan aren't going to take an 

860
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,360
Australian residential title 
deed and they're not going to 

861
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,760
take a European one, but they'll
take a Bitcoin. 

862
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,760
It's interesting because this is
the same part of the feature 

863
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,280
that that we just mentioned, 
right? 

864
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:49,000
The the fact that it is globally
liquid 24/7, 365. 

865
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,800
It is a feature when when you 
talk about this because if 

866
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,840
Bitcoin is recognized as a 
global borderless commodity, 

867
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,800
then yeah, you can actually 
start shopping around and, and, 

868
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,920
and, and yeah, maybe borrow in 
Japan if you live in Western 

869
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,120
Europe. 
I, I love that idea actually, 

870
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:15,080
also in terms of like how that 
would fuel a market because 

871
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:21,960
eventually that that borrowing 
could be a perpetual thing and 

872
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,840
like a perpetual business also 
for liquidity providers around 

873
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,760
the world, right? 
So, yeah, I, I think there's so 

874
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,960
much game theory also in 
Bitcoin, not only like 

875
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,520
individual adoption, but also 
this company adoption, the 

876
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:40,520
products and services people can
build the, the treasuries, you 

877
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,920
know, corporate treasuries, 
country treasuries, all these 

878
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,680
things. 
Like there's all this little 

879
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,320
game theory and and I think 
that's all fueled by the 

880
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,440
absolute scarcity, right? 
Like it's, you know, this this 

881
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,760
game, game ISA game and air 
quotes. 

882
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,560
You know, it's it's here and you
can participate, but it's it's 

883
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,080
such a huge, huge opportunity 
that many people still don't 

884
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,280
see. 
I don't know if you're very 

885
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,240
active on LinkedIn, but I love 
seeing the financial advisors on

886
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:12,560
LinkedIn talk about bitcoins 
world. 

887
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,760
Yeah, so they are still very far
away from that. 

888
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,040
But again, yeah, the asymmetric 
opportunity comes from from 

889
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,600
doing the work right and. 
It's funny, I stick up for say, 

890
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,960
fellow investment advisors. 
A lot of them are hamstrung by 

891
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,760
their their regulators in that 
they can't advise on Bitcoin 

892
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,360
because it's not on the approved
product list. 

893
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,240
They can't get any professional 
indemnity for it, so they can't 

894
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,880
by default give any advice on 
it. 

895
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,880
And that worm is turning, but 
it's just turning very, very 

896
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,080
light. 
They're going to be really like 

897
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,600
to the party and they're costing
their clients a lot of money 

898
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,680
from an investment upside 
perspective, so. 

899
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,160
Yeah, I agree. 
So when we talk about game 

900
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,520
theory in countries, do you 
think this year we'll see 

901
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,320
another serious country adopt 
Bitcoin? 

902
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,600
Do you think this will actually 
be the year where we kind of 

903
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,040
like see this game theory start 
or play out? 

904
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,280
Or do you also think that that 
eventually will take longer? 

905
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:16,280
Because one kind of like counter
take that I that I like is that 

906
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,160
if America really adopts 
Bitcoin, then it could also be 

907
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,960
that half of the world just 
things like they're crazy. 

908
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,320
They're selling goals for 
Bitcoin. 

909
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,320
Wow, they're crazy. 
We've got to stay away from this

910
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,160
Bitcoin thing, you know, and 
then it's not going to happen, 

911
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,720
for example. 
Yeah. 

912
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:35,680
What are your thoughts there? 
Look, I just want to caveat this

913
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,320
by saying we are closer than we 
have ever been to nation state 

914
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,560
adoption and game theory at a 
nation state level playing out. 

915
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,280
However, I can't help but think 
that history is going to repeat 

916
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,800
itself. 
When I first figured out 

917
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,360
Bitcoin, I was scratching around
thinking, gosh, I've got to buy 

918
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,600
as much of this as quickly as I 
can before someone else figures 

919
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,360
it out and it goes up 10X 
overnight. 

920
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,840
You know, you hear Michael 
Saylor talk about sleepless 

921
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,240
nights when he figured it out 
and then he realized, hang on a 

922
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,400
SEC, I've got to get this money 
allocated as quickly as 

923
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,160
possible. 
I can't help but think that 

924
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,240
history's going to repeat. 
And this is the thing that's 

925
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:14,200
going to be mind blind. 
You've got the largest country. 

926
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,200
Well, the most powerful country 
on earth has told you they're 

927
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,320
going to do this. 
And the rest of the world's 

928
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,480
going to look around and go, 
yeah, this is probably what's 

929
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,120
going to happen. 
Now, I could be wrong, but if I 

930
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,560
look at, say, on a personal 
level, a corporate level, those 

931
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:35,080
two former situations have 
played out where there's, you 

932
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,120
know, one person has LED and the
rest of the market's been 

933
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:40,840
totally ambivalent about what 
they're doing. 

934
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,560
And I can't help but think it's 
going to play out the same way 

935
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,720
at a nation state level. 
But I would be very pleasantly 

936
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:49,040
surprised if I'm wrong, and I 
hope I am. 

937
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,280
Yeah, again, that that's why 
this is so entertaining to 

938
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,200
follow, don't you think? 
I think the, the upside for 

939
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:05,320
smaller countries that perhaps 
have a bit more, how do you say 

940
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,720
that like, you know, freedom to 
move away from, you know, or, or

941
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:12,960
act more in their own interest 
and kind of like the block that 

942
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,360
they are maybe associated with, 
you know, like their upside is, 

943
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,200
is huge. 
And I don't know if you saw 

944
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,040
that. 
Did you see the video little 

945
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,200
report that was done on Bhutan 
with like the leader of Bhutan 

946
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,080
that talked about how they are 
mining Bitcoin with their hydro,

947
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,720
etcetera. 
Like I, I think it's actually 

948
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:37,280
smaller countries like this that
that could actually benefit the 

949
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,360
most because they have, you 
know, they have more autonomy in

950
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,680
making this decision, you know, 
not necessarily just the buying,

951
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,440
but like the longer strategic 
outlook. 

952
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,560
And, and when I heard him talk, 
that's a leader of Bhutan, he's 

953
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,320
like totally orange built. 
Like, he totally gets it, you 

954
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,000
know? 
What's funny you you if you boil

955
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:02,520
that thought down to a personal 
level, the people who stand to 

956
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,440
benefit from Bitcoin the most 
are the poorest. 

957
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,640
Yes. 
They can buy Bitcoin now and 

958
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:09,920
they can do it and they can have
an outsized return. 

959
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,240
The smaller companies, they can 
have an outsized return relative

960
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:16,040
to large companies and the 
smaller countries, they can do 

961
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,080
that too. 
And where it's funny, probably 

962
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,280
one of the best business 
analogies I think, which applies

963
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,640
to Bitcoin is it's not the big 
that eat the small, it's the 

964
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,040
fast that eat the slow. 
And this is where small 

965
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,320
countries who are nimble, they 
have the ability to move much 

966
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,400
quicker than people with a whole
host of assets. 

967
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:39,720
So they can get set at 100% much
quicker than say larger or more 

968
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,920
disorganized organizations. 
So it's not the fast, well, it's

969
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,240
not the big eating the small, 
it's the fast eating the slow. 

970
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,880
And this is where Bhutan is a 
perfect example. 

971
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:51,640
But Kelly again with El Salvador
first mover advantage. 

972
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,200
It's fun to see and it puts 
pressure on the big guys. 

973
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,840
Yeah, with you, it's always fun 
to end talking about price and 

974
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,760
predictions. 
We can we briefly touched upon 

975
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,560
it before when we when we talked
about liquidity, of course. 

976
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,080
I think I have two questions 
here. 

977
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,240
Maybe the first one is an intro 
to the second one. 

978
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:17,400
Do you think we'll keep seeing 
like the classic cycles or are 

979
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:24,600
you, are you more in on the side
of we'll have a prolonged less 

980
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,280
crazy run up bull market? 
Like just a, you know, we're 

981
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,240
going up, we're going steady, 
we're going up, we're going 

982
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:33,160
steady. 
Kind of like how some people say

983
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:37,160
like this is how gold went 
after, you know, the gold ETFs 

984
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,560
were introduced. 
Like do you think we'll have 

985
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,560
like a prolonged bull market 
because like the perpetual 

986
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,760
buying, the size of the 
perpetual buying is slowly 

987
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,000
growing. 
Basically, I think as we alluded

988
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,960
to before, like is, is are you 
in that camp or do you think 

989
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,760
we'll we'll still see the 
classic cycles just because 

990
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:59,520
human psychology? 
I I think we're going to see 

991
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,640
probably a hybrid of what you 
just described. 

992
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,120
I think we're going to see up 
and grind up and grind up and 

993
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,040
grind until the nation states 
figure it out and someone who 

994
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,200
has access to their finger on 
the money printer can buy an 

995
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,400
unlimited amount of Bitcoin. 
And then we're going to see 

996
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,160
Samson prove correct with his 
Omega candle and we're going to 

997
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,400
see a 5 or a 10X overnight and 
we're just going to set the 

998
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,720
floor to $1,000,000. 
And what's funny is, and this is

999
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:30,600
where one of my great Bitcoiner 
mates is Checkmatey. 

1000
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,240
I think he's one of, if not the 
best on chain analyst that we 

1001
00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:35,880
have. 
And I'm so impressed with his 

1002
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:41,720
work and he's advocating for a, 
you know, pop grind, pop grind. 

1003
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:44,480
And that's going to be the, the,
the situation that's going to 

1004
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,600
grind us to $1,000,000. 
And we're all going to be drying

1005
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,760
our eyes with $100 bills and 
upset that it's a million and 

1006
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,520
it's taken two or three years to
get there. 

1007
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:56,080
And I think, I think there's, 
there's the probability that he 

1008
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,040
will be correct. 
And I think if you look at that 

1009
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:04,000
skew, I would, I would weigh 
that at a 9010 skew that he will

1010
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,080
be correct. 
And what's interesting, he's 

1011
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,120
going to be correct most of the 
way up. 

1012
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,760
And then I think there's going 
to be a moment that things just 

1013
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,640
completely change. 
And someone with a money printer

1014
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,280
understands what this is and 
realizes that there's no, 

1015
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,080
there's no second best, that 
there's no ability to get more 

1016
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,560
once this is gone and it's 
tucked away in your coffins. 

1017
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,360
And they will buy literally 
every Bitcoin available that's 

1018
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,160
on the market and they will set 
a price that's ridiculous just 

1019
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,600
to pry that out of your hands. 
And if you don't have the 

1020
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,320
ability to have a lending 
facility against that, then you 

1021
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,480
know you'll sell. 
You might sell 5 or 10% of your 

1022
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,960
stack and sail off into the 
sunset richer than you ever 

1023
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,200
dreamed of. 
And that's what I expect to 

1024
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,400
happen at some point in time. 
The the powers that they will 

1025
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,680
understand that this is absolute
scarcity in an asset and they 

1026
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,080
will want it. 
Yeah, I think 84 K is kind of 

1027
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,640
like the new 58K sort of kind of
proves proves the point. 

1028
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,960
I I think it's a very reasonable
idea just because we have the 

1029
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,560
perpetual buying I don't think 
we'll see the 80% drawdown 

1030
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,280
again. 
I think we just had like 30 for 

1031
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,200
35 was kind of like the Max yeah
now and it. 

1032
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:24,840
Felt like 50 in previous cycles.
Of course, yeah, I think I mean 

1033
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,720
for me as well, like after 10 
years, the, the red, you know, 

1034
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:31,200
double digit red kind of hurts 
still. 

1035
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,040
But, you know, we know, we know 
what this is. 

1036
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,440
So that keeps us more at peace. 
But I think it's a very 

1037
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,480
reasonable, that's probably the 
Max Payne scenario, what you 

1038
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,960
just described, right. 
Yeah, the this slow grind, like 

1039
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,360
you're right, but it goes very 
slow, you know, so, yeah. 

1040
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,360
And then if we look at this 
year, that was my second 

1041
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,880
question, like where, where do 
you think it could go? 

1042
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,640
Because you know, if you, if you
look at it from like the, the, 

1043
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:05,840
the classic cycle behaviour, 
this should be the peak year of,

1044
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,520
of a bull run. 
Of course, it's a bit dam, but 

1045
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,160
dam. 
But now as we talked about 

1046
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,920
before, like what, what are your
thoughts on the price for for 

1047
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,880
this year? 
I think the cycle is going to be

1048
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:21,840
a lot later than we think and my
expectation is we see a three to

1049
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,680
10 X, but it might not happen 
this year. 

1050
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,240
And the reason for that is going
to be tempered with the 

1051
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,880
requirement of the US to 
refinance that 9 trillion of 

1052
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,200
debt. 
And they need to really crush 

1053
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:37,120
the economy to get that done in 
an expedient fashion. 

1054
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,800
So, you know, I've got a whole 
host of sort of indicators and 

1055
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,560
reminders that start in July, 
August, September, October, Hey,

1056
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,280
getting frothy, getting frothy, 
getting frothy, getting frothy, 

1057
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,440
you know, need to start talking 
to clients about, you know, what

1058
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:57,920
they want to do. 
If we have a subdued money 

1059
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:03,080
printer and into growth at the 
money supply over the next six 

1060
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,240
months, then I think that's just
going to delay it. 

1061
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,480
And you know, we might push 
through past into, you know, 

1062
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,760
sort of Q2 next year where we 
see a peak in Q2 next year. 

1063
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,640
Whereas I would have, you know, 
if you asked me this two years 

1064
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:18,680
ago, I would have had an 
expectation that the start of Q4

1065
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,680
this year would be the peak. 
But you know, with everything 

1066
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,160
that's going on, we could see 
that pushed out to Q2 in 2025. 

1067
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,960
All right, last question and 
maybe that's good to kind of set

1068
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,040
our expectations. 
What are the biggest challenges 

1069
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,600
you actually see on the horizon,
whether it's this year or you 

1070
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,440
know, in the prolonged bull 
cycle as you as you just 

1071
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:50,600
described? 
I still think it's it's 

1072
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,640
adoption. 
I think there is. 

1073
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,640
And This is why what you do is 
so important. 

1074
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,120
Yeah, 138 episodes later, 
absolutely killing it. 

1075
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,680
But the messaging and education 
around Bitcoin is the number one

1076
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,840
thing that we need to focus on 
self custody of, you know, 

1077
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,760
age-old principles, not your 
case, not your coins are, you 

1078
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,320
know, really important because 
we have 50% more bitcoiners 

1079
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,160
every year come into the market 
who don't understand, you know, 

1080
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:18,800
what this thing was originally 
built on. 

1081
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,120
And they're learning. 
And that's probably why we've 

1082
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,360
seen in the last couple of 
months, everyone's screaming, 

1083
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,920
kicking and crying and feeling 
so depressed because 50% of 

1084
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,280
Bitcoin is a brand new to 
Bitcoin and they haven't been 

1085
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:35,280
through a 30% drawdown. 
The other thing I think it's 

1086
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:40,280
going to be one of the greatest 
challenges and a great mate of 

1087
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:45,920
mine in Jeff Booth is probably 
doing so much work in this space

1088
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:50,440
along with another legend Gigi 
in really focusing on meaning 

1089
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,920
the exchange for Bitcoin. 
There is no doubt there is a 

1090
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,960
scaling problem with Bitcoin 
past, you know, past layer 1. 

1091
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:05,080
You know, layer 1 is not able to
deliver the ability to buy 

1092
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,520
coffee and then buy a container 
ship it. 

1093
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,680
It's not built for that because 
the limitations of the number of

1094
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,400
blocks per annum and the number 
of transactions per block. 

1095
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,600
So I think the work that cars 
like Jeff and Gigi are doing. 

1096
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,520
Absolutely critical in garnering
further adoption and really 

1097
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:28,080
creating that circular economy. 
And that's probably going to be 

1098
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,440
one of our most important things
because if we don't have a 

1099
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,800
circular economy built on 
Bitcoin, then it makes it far 

1100
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,320
more vulnerable to a state level
attack. 

1101
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,960
And so the work they're doing, I
think it's the hardest problem 

1102
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,040
to solve in Bitcoin. 
And I'm just thrilled we've got 

1103
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,200
some of the best minds in 
Bitcoin focused on it because 

1104
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:52,320
ICE, I don't know how they do 
it, but they're making headway 

1105
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,320
and they're making inroads in 
what I think is the most 

1106
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,120
important problem with Bitcoins 
all. 

1107
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,240
Right, well, thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much for your time. 

1108
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,160
Really enjoyed this update. 
Maybe we should do this more 

1109
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,360
often and then we also get to 
talk more often. 

1110
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,600
Yeah, man, always a pleasure 
talking to you. 

1111
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,480
So thank you so much. 
I'd love that. 

1112
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,240
Appreciate your time, prayer. 
Cheers. 

1113
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I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, you can click here 

1114
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,880
to find more just like it and 
click here to find all Bitcoin 

1115
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:23,920
for millennials podcast 
episodes. 

1116
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,440
Also, please like this video if 
you want to help shine a light 

1117
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,400
on the message of Bitcoin and 
subscribe to my channel to stay 

1118
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,600
connected. 
I hope to see you for our next 

1119
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:33,560
episode. 
Bye.