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Hey there, this is Tom Constant 
and you're listening to Bitcoin 

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for Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is most 

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relevant technology that you 
should understand and adopt. 

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Today I'm joined by Peter 
Dunworth. 

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He's a financial advisor for 
high net worth individuals and 

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families specifically focused on
Bitcoin with this company, the 

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Bitcoin advisor serving clients 
since 2016. 

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And he is also one of the people
who I think has the highest 

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price prediction of Bitcoin in 
the entire world. 

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But the scary part is that his 
reasoning for it makes a lot of 

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sense. 
Let's get into it. 

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Welcome, Peter. 
Pleasure to be with you. 

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Thanks for having me. 
Thanks for coming on. 

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I've really enjoyed your your 
content and you taught me a lot 

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already. 
I think I'm a big novice in like

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the financial and economics 
economic dimensions of of 

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Bitcoin and you're one of the 
people who has definitely helped

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me to understand more about it. 
But yeah, I would. 

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I wanted to have you want to to 
obviously learn, learn a bit 

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more and hear your thoughts on 
what is happening with with 

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Bitcoin in the world and how 
it's changing. 

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But I wanted to do a quick check
in the beginning. 

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Which generation do you belong 
to? 

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Good question. 
I'm not sure about that which 

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year was? 
You're born 77, late 70s, so 

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does that put me in the Gen. 
No, maybe not. 

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Gen. 
XI. 

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Think you're Gen. 
X then? 

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Yeah. 
OK. 

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Gen. 
X, Yeah, that's kind of the. 

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The age group that lost out on 
the property, the huge property 

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boom, the huge upswing in a lot 
of things and it was too old for

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the tech boom. 
However, we're in the perfect 

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position for for Bitcoin. 
So I think look swings and 

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roundabouts, every generation 
gets an opportunity and you know

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I think the baby boomers had an 
opportunity that was like no 

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other in investing in property 
and shares and they had 40 year 

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tailwinds that. 
Seem to be unraveling a little 

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bit now, but for the best part, 
they had a a 40 year relatively 

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uninterrupted ascension to 
incredible capital values that I

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don't think they could have 
dreamed of back in the 80s. 

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And we're in a very different 
position. 

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You know it's September 2023 and
the titles have turned so to 

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speak. 
So it's a completely different 

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investing environment to where 
we were in the early 80s. 

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Yeah. 
And So what, what got you into 

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investing and and finance in the
beginning? 

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Good question or probably just 
an interest in business. 

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So having a father who was 
running a small business or 

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small to medium sized business 
and we talked about business as 

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you know, one of the things that
we love discussing from you know

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probably the age of 8 to 10 
upwards, it was a dinner 

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conversation, it was you know, 
when we'd sit around or have a 

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spa and. 
Or swim in the pool or catch up.

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We'd be talking a lot about that
because that was a huge focus 

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for my father and he was a huge 
inspiration for that interest in

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business and wanting to 
understand what it takes to make

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money and deliver services that 
people want to have. 

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And that's what piqued the 
curiosity in that. 

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But ironically, it took until 
Bitcoin to really understand 

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what is money. 
No, that's interesting. 

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I have a question about money 
later, but like how. 

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So you were interested in that. 
You grew up in an environment 

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where you talked about that a 
lot. 

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How did you turn that into your 
career or your interest, 

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especially in the advising side 
of things? 

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That was relatively easy because
studying business at school, 

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business and legal studies, that
gave me sort of a granting or an

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understanding of what to be 
expected in the business world 

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and then? 
The most or the broadest degree 

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that I think we could do from a 
business perspective is an 

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accounting degree. 
So I studied accounting and 

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finance which gave me the most 
options to look at the broadest 

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range of businesses that I could
possibly serve. 

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So every business needs an 
accountant and that gives you a 

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really great understanding for 
the numbers both sides of the 

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balance sheet, panels, balance 
sheets it it's really critical 

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to to understanding what makes a
good business and ironically 

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though. 
All of the studies never taught 

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me about what is money. 
So therein lies a conundrum 

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that, you know, you sit there 
and study accounting, study 

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finance, and it's all about the,
you know, the accounting for 

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money, but no one actually tells
you what it is. 

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So it's curious, let's get, 
let's get to, let's get to that.

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And how do governments control 
or influence money? 

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But also, yeah, what is then 
your question to to what is 

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money? 
How do they influence money? 

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Well, they effectively have full
control over it. 

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So you know, by law they mandate
what is legal tender. 

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Legal tender is the money that 
you can use in the jurisdiction 

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that you live in. 
So you know where you are in. 

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Europe has a very different, 
different money to what we use 

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in Australia. 
And the local governments who 

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issue that money, well, firstly 
they're responsible for issuing 

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that money and controlling it. 
They issue they that they are 

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responsible for the issuance of 
the money. 

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They're they're responsible for 
the destruction of that money. 

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They're responsible for 
everything in and around that 

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money, including the interest 
rates that are ascribed to the 

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borrowing of that money. 
Ironically, it's typically set 

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up as a a quasi government 
institution in the form of a 

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Federal Reserve or a, you know, 
a state owned bank. 

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That dictates and mandates that 
the cost of money being the 

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interest rates that that are 
required to pay pay for that for

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that money. 
So in effect when you say cost 

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of money, is that then also kind
of like the worth of the of the 

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money, right. 
So when you say that they, they 

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set the interest rates, yeah, I 
want to, I want to explain to 

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people like when they set the 
interest rates, right, they they

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actually say what a bank has to 
well, they borrow that money, 

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right. 
The banks can can get money like

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that's like the the lowest level
of interest that they can ask 

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for a loan, right? 
Correct. 

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And so typically a state owned 
bank issues has interest rates 

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at the lowest, lowest available 
because that's considered the 

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riskfree rate in the country 
that you're in. 

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So in the US, it's the Federal 
Reserve their their riskfree 

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rate or the Federal Reserve 
overnight funds, right? 

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Is it sitting at about 5.15%, 
give or take? 

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In Australia, it's 4.1 In 
Europe, I think it's a lot lower

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than that. 
And so that's considered the 

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riskfree rate if you borrow from
the government because that's 

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perceived as being riskfree 
because they're the ones 

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printing the actual supply into 
existence, which brings to the 

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next dimension of money. 
So you've got the cost of money 

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and then you've got the actual 
supply of money. 

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So how much money is there? 
Is there less money than there 

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was a year ago, or is there more
money and this is? 

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Probably what is on everyone's 
mind at the moment, in the last 

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12, well 36 months, we've really
seen a huge spike globally in 

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the amount of money in in 
supply. 

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And what that does is that makes
it very difficult to have price 

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stability for services, goods 
and services. 

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So a function of having a an 
increasing supply in money is 

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the fact that in order to 
preserve purchasing power of 

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that money. 
The prices of everything need to

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go up and hence the reason why 
in the last sort of two years 

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we've seen a massive increase in
the inflation rate. 

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And then as a subsequent 
consequence of that, you've seen

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the cost of money and the 
interest rates that the the 

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Reserve Bank charges. 
The cost of money has basically 

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gone up in an attempt to curb 
that inflation rate of rising 

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prices. 
Yeah, but. 

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And then in eventually it 
becomes kind of like a loop, 

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right, where the cost of the 
money goes up, prices, the 

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numbers on whatever you want to 
buy goes up, therefore you need 

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more money. 
And it's like an endless spiral.

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Does that in any way still 
reflect the value of the things 

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that people want to buy or like 
how? 

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How can people judge that then? 
It's very difficult because it 

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distorts what what the value of 
things are when you've got a 

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money supply that is expanding 
and contracting without any 

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consciousness. 
That the consumers and the 

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residents have no consciousness 
around what's actually happening

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with the money supply, because 
you don't get to see what's 

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happening in real time. 
You only see the price of goods 

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and services that you're 
purchasing on a daytoday basis 

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start going up exponentially. 
And you're wondering, you know, 

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when did it cost me $50.00 to go
down to the local supermarket to

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pick up a few items? 
And it's like, well, this never 

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used to be the case. 
The same basket of goods that, 

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you know, I picked up three 
years ago was costing half as 

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much as it does today. 
It used to only cost me $25.00, 

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but now it's at 50. 
And you know, when that starts 

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happening across the board, all 
of a sudden people start going 

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to their employer and saying, 
you know, basically my cost of 

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living has just doubled. 
I want to pay rise. 

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You know, a 2% pay rise is no 
longer on the cards. 

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I need, you know, 6-7, eight, 
910%. 

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And this is where we get to what
you alluded to earlier, a wage 

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price spiral, where basically 
there's going to be inflation 

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and the high inflation causes 
wages to go up and then wages 

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going up causes prices to go up.
And that's a bad place to be. 

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And then people are mostly 
talking about the number, right?

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Like I need more units to buy 
the same thing of value because 

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a banana is still a banana and a
house is still a house, right, 

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And a phone is still a phone. 
Is this the biggest thing that 

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people need to understand about 
how the financial system works? 

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Or is there another thing that 
that you think they they don't 

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understand and is even more 
important? 

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I I think it's critical 
understanding how the money 

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works and ironically, no one 
really teaches you how the money

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works, probably for good reason.
You know, I think Henry Ford 

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said if people understood how 
the money worked, banks would be

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nonexistent the next day because
people would be riding. 

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And they'd be understandably 
upset about the fact that an 

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arbitrary group of people get to
set the the supply of, you know,

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the amount of money that's in 
the system. 

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And they get to control that at 
their whim and they also get to 

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set the cost of that capital. 
And this is where having a 

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subjective oversight on these 
two control mechanisms, which 

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have huge ramifications for the 
entire economy, the entire 

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country, it affects the country 
at every level. 

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It it's a little bit 
disconcerting to think that, you

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know, a very small group of 
people have such an influence on

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on the economic and broader 
prosperity of a nation. 

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And if we unpack that a little, 
like people go to work or they 

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have a business, they earn well,
they spend their energy right to

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deliver the service or create a 
product and then sell it. 

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Therefore they get energy back 
in the form of what we call 

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money, right, The coins and or 
well, the numbers on the screen 

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nowadays. 
But because there's. 

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So that is within your control 
obviously, right? 

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How much energy you put in, like
how good of a quality your 

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product or service is and 
therefore like the amount of 

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units you can ask for it. 
But then there's also this 

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outside reality of, as you 
mentioned, a few people or an 

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unknown entity of which most 
people don't know the names, the

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faces, etc. 
Like they kind of create this 

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well playing fields in which you
then have to play in order to 

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keep the energy that that you 
accumulated, right? 

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00:12:07,950 --> 00:12:09,390
Correct. 
And this is the really tough 

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00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:12,590
thing, because once you 
understand that game, then the 

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real game is a foot of how do 
you preserve that purchasing 

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power? 
Yes. 

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So you've got to understand that
the purchasing power is being 

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whittled away from you, or 
you're being robbed of that in 

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some way, shape or form, 
typically in the form of 

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inflation, because it's the most
insipid form of it, however. 

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Once you understand that that is
the game and your job is to 

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preserve your purchasing power, 
your life force in a monetary 

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form, then then that that sets 
you down the rabbit hole of what

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are the investing options to 
preserve that. 

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00:12:40,940 --> 00:12:44,420
So if you look across the broad 
spectrum of it, you you need to 

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00:12:44,420 --> 00:12:48,220
then understand or become a 
master of, you know, investing 

228
00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:52,350
in stocks, bonds, property. 
Commodities and you know my all 

229
00:12:52,350 --> 00:12:55,310
time favorite Bitcoin. 
But that in itself is literally 

230
00:12:55,310 --> 00:12:58,710
a full time job and you know is 
one of our largest industries is

231
00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:01,230
financial services and why does 
that even exist? 

232
00:13:01,710 --> 00:13:04,790
Because people have a huge well 
people have huge trouble 

233
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:06,910
actually suffering. 
What is the best investment for 

234
00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:10,550
them and how do they go about, 
you know, understanding this and

235
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:15,670
it literally is a full time job 
for me to, you know, effectively

236
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:18,230
try and figure out what's 
happening in the market and. 

237
00:13:18,890 --> 00:13:20,970
Understand what is what are 
going to be the best investment 

238
00:13:20,970 --> 00:13:22,530
options for my clients moving 
forward. 

239
00:13:22,650 --> 00:13:27,690
And this is something I do all 
day, every day, let alone, you 

240
00:13:27,730 --> 00:13:29,970
know, I find you don't. 
Have a full time. 

241
00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:31,290
Correct. 
And. 

242
00:13:31,530 --> 00:13:34,570
And here's The funny thing, like
I do this all day, every day and

243
00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:36,530
you know, I struggle with this, 
particularly at this point in 

244
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:38,130
time. 
It's a very difficult time for 

245
00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:40,970
investing and making clear 
longterm investment decisions. 

246
00:13:41,450 --> 00:13:43,970
I can only imagine how tough it 
is for someone who has to do a 

247
00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:46,690
nine to five and then come home 
and try and figure this stuff 

248
00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:49,860
out like it is. 
Yeah, it's a it's a whole 

249
00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:52,220
decision. 
Being aware of it. 

250
00:13:52,860 --> 00:13:54,700
Yeah. 
And being aware of the fact that

251
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you need to do that. 
Right. 

252
00:13:57,260 --> 00:13:59,540
We'll get to this in a minute. 
But I wanted to go back to the 

253
00:13:59,540 --> 00:14:02,260
word you used the word robbed. 
Like you're getting robbed. 

254
00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:10,220
In my conversations, I use this 
word too, but I find it that 

255
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,820
people find that a really 
difficult word. 

256
00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:15,570
When you say you're being robbed
by the government or you're 

257
00:14:15,570 --> 00:14:18,290
being robbed by the people in 
charge or whatever, right? 

258
00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:21,290
Like that. 
I found it very hard also to 

259
00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:24,210
phrase it in a different way. 
But now that you use this word 

260
00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:29,170
like, how can you explain this? 
Because sometimes I also see 

261
00:14:29,170 --> 00:14:35,570
people share things about this 
2% inflation is so low that you 

262
00:14:35,570 --> 00:14:38,290
are slowly getting robbed. 
You don't really, you know, 

263
00:14:38,290 --> 00:14:41,770
understand that you're losing 
the energy that you accumulated.

264
00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:43,330
You know, your wealth, your 
money. 

265
00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:46,890
And if someone comes into your 
house and just steals 2% of your

266
00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:50,330
things, you don't really kind of
notice it. 

267
00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:55,250
But now that it's more right, 
56710 in some cases, well, 

268
00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:57,690
hundreds of percentages in some 
countries. 

269
00:14:58,890 --> 00:15:01,890
Why do you use the word robbed? 
And is that the most friendly 

270
00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:03,250
word you can use? 
Or? 

271
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,720
No, but it's not the friendliest
word to use and it probably has 

272
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:14,280
connotations of being held up or
armed robbery is probably the 

273
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,640
the initial connotation that or 
thought that is provoked by the 

274
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,960
term rob robbed I I think it's 
the most apt term for describing

275
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,120
that though, because the The 
thing is, is that we don't have 

276
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,400
a choice in it. 
No one voluntarily says I'll 

277
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,440
give 2% of my income because, 
hey, I'm a good person or I'm 

278
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,010
I'm happy to pay 2%. 
To this inflation that's robbing

279
00:15:35,010 --> 00:15:38,610
all of us. 
It's it's an unfair and unasked 

280
00:15:38,610 --> 00:15:42,170
for cost of being a resident in 
a nation. 

281
00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:45,290
And so for that reason, I think 
it's the fairest term to say no 

282
00:15:45,290 --> 00:15:48,930
one actually voluntarily asked 
to to give that 2% away. 

283
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:52,970
And the only reason it's 2% is 
because the federal banks, you 

284
00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:57,570
know, Federal Reserve or Reserve
Bank of Australia or the ECB are

285
00:15:57,570 --> 00:16:00,260
basically. 
Carving out and creating these 

286
00:16:00,420 --> 00:16:03,140
inflation rates that are 
effectively robbing us all of 

287
00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:05,060
this. 
And you know, the old analogy 

288
00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:08,780
with, you know, a frog in a 
boiling pot of water, you know 

289
00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:12,380
when when the water's just warm,
the frog can stay in there all 

290
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:14,580
day and it's okay. 
But you know the second you turn

291
00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:17,460
that that heat up and actually 
want to start cooking the frog, 

292
00:16:18,220 --> 00:16:21,380
he's going to jump out of it. 
So the the the best way to do it

293
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:23,900
is to, you know, lull them into 
a false sense of security. 

294
00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:27,660
Not too high, not too low. 
Just right so that the frog 

295
00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:30,780
basically gets cooked and 
doesn't jump out of the pot. 

296
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:35,140
And this is the This is why the 
inflation target is 2% and not 

297
00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:36,940
10%. 
Because it was 10%. 

298
00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:39,500
You'd be bleeding out and your 
money would be halving every 10,

299
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:43,580
every seven years. 
And that is an unacceptable 

300
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,180
level of loss. 
Before, before the crowds turn 

301
00:16:46,180 --> 00:16:48,900
around and basically start 
paying for blood. 

302
00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:51,420
You know, no one wants to have 
their purchasing power halved 

303
00:16:51,420 --> 00:16:54,140
every seven years because. 
And it means you effectively 

304
00:16:54,140 --> 00:16:57,460
need to get a 7% pay rise every 
year just to stay even. 

305
00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:02,860
So, yeah. 
And so that 2%, you know, this 

306
00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:06,819
is also something that recently 
has been new to me. 

307
00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:11,180
Like, is this kind of like 
following a certain economic 

308
00:17:11,220 --> 00:17:16,380
ideology in terms of growth or 
is this a malicious thing? 

309
00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:18,540
Like how? 
How should you judge? 

310
00:17:19,450 --> 00:17:22,609
How should you judge that? 
Why isn't it zero, for example? 

311
00:17:22,770 --> 00:17:28,690
Like what is the point here? 
There's many lies to this 

312
00:17:28,690 --> 00:17:31,130
question. 
Firstly, you know there is a 

313
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:34,970
target rate of 2%. 
And to your to your question, 

314
00:17:35,010 --> 00:17:37,330
why isn't it zero? 
That's a very good question. 

315
00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:40,410
Why isn't it zero? 
Well, the Powers That Be and 

316
00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:43,730
Jerome Powell was in Congress 
recently or up on the Hill 

317
00:17:44,170 --> 00:17:47,010
discussing that very question. 
Why is the number 2%? 

318
00:17:47,610 --> 00:17:49,770
And that was others do, other, 
he said. 

319
00:17:49,770 --> 00:17:52,930
Others do it or something. 
Those explanations. 

320
00:17:52,930 --> 00:17:56,210
And that that was deemed the 
acceptable level of inflation 

321
00:17:56,210 --> 00:17:58,930
for price stability. 
But it's really not an 

322
00:17:58,930 --> 00:18:01,450
acceptable level, particularly 
if you have the ability to have 

323
00:18:01,450 --> 00:18:04,890
negative or deflation where 
prices actually go down. 

324
00:18:05,410 --> 00:18:09,130
And their concern is when you, 
and this is probably getting a 

325
00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:13,730
little date, but when you have 
an expansionary monetary system 

326
00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:16,460
built on credit. 
Yeah, it's critical that you 

327
00:18:16,460 --> 00:18:19,540
have information which means, 
which means to illustrate, I'm 

328
00:18:19,540 --> 00:18:22,340
also discovering for this 
podcast, right, like how deep to

329
00:18:22,340 --> 00:18:24,580
go. 
But no, I love the direction 

330
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:26,020
where you're going, but I want 
to industry. 

331
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:31,140
So the debt based system, you 
mean when someone deposits $100,

332
00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:36,420
a $100 in the bank for example, 
a bank can loan out 90% of that 

333
00:18:36,860 --> 00:18:39,620
which on paper is new money, 
right? 

334
00:18:39,620 --> 00:18:44,940
For example, so I deposit $100. 
The $10 is kept in the bank as 

335
00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:48,340
my as like solid money or 
something like that. 

336
00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:53,140
The bank can loan it to 90%, so 
$90.00 for example, to you, you 

337
00:18:53,140 --> 00:18:57,380
can buy something for $90.00 and
a person who gets that $90.00 

338
00:18:57,380 --> 00:19:02,460
can put that in the bank and 
then $9 gets held and $81.00 

339
00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:07,460
gets loaned out again, right? 
Like that's the debt system, 

340
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:08,300
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

341
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:12,470
And and this is where if you 
don't have inflation, it's very 

342
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:14,710
difficult. 
That debt thing gets very costly

343
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:20,350
to repay because part of the 
debasement of the money is the 

344
00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:23,310
inflation, which means the debt 
is easier to repay. 

345
00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:26,950
So there's some huge 
connotations to this. 

346
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:31,390
And a a little side note on that
fractional reserve lending which

347
00:19:31,390 --> 00:19:36,550
you just highlighted after the 
global financial crisis of 2008 

348
00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:40,590
and 09, there was a. 
The financial accord struck the 

349
00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:44,510
Basel 3 Accords, which said how 
much money a bank needs to hold 

350
00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:48,070
in order to lend out and of the 
deposit. 

351
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:49,950
That's money, right? 
Correct. 

352
00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:54,870
So on a home loan across those 
banks that subscribed to it, it 

353
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:57,550
was across the globe like pretty
much most major countries 

354
00:19:57,550 --> 00:20:01,310
subscribe to it, China, the US, 
Europe, Australia, if you 

355
00:20:01,310 --> 00:20:05,230
consider it the big country. 
But on a serious note, they all 

356
00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:09,410
subscribe to it and. 
The capital adequacy ratio, 

357
00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:14,130
which is how much you needed to 
have on deposit to lend was 5%. 

358
00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:19,290
So in order to lend $1,000,000 
you needed to have $50,000 on 

359
00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:21,290
hand. 
So 20X. 

360
00:20:21,330 --> 00:20:24,410
And just a little side note, 
we're we're going through and 

361
00:20:24,410 --> 00:20:27,810
I'm not sure if you've discussed
with your listeners, the Chuck 

362
00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:30,890
Point 2.0 where the banks are 
clamping down on crypto 

363
00:20:30,890 --> 00:20:33,890
exchanges and transferring money
from the banking system to them.

364
00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:38,690
But think about this from a 
deflationary perspective. 

365
00:20:39,610 --> 00:20:43,770
If you've got $50,000 sitting in
your bank where you are or where

366
00:20:43,770 --> 00:20:48,210
I am, and we move that $50,000 
from the bank to the crypto 

367
00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:52,730
exchange to buy Bitcoin and then
self custody it, you have 

368
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:56,850
effectively robbed that Bank of 
the ability to loan out one. 

369
00:20:56,850 --> 00:21:03,780
Million makes a lot of sense. 
Oh my God, This is why the banks

370
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:06,060
don't want to do it. 
Because on that $1,000,000 

371
00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:11,340
they're probably making a 2% 
margin on $20,000 and so if not.

372
00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:13,860
More right. 
If it's a home loan or you know,

373
00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:18,020
over over 30 years, 20-30 years,
correct. 

374
00:21:18,020 --> 00:21:20,340
That's per year $20,000. 
Oh yes. 

375
00:21:20,860 --> 00:21:24,220
So I mean, This is why they're 
not keen on having money leave 

376
00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:28,100
to go to buy Bitcoin because 
it's hugely deflationary for the

377
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:30,980
for the entire market credit 
perspective. 

378
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:34,170
And so basically, this is where 
my mind goes. 

379
00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:40,330
When you put your money in the 
bank, you're effectively lending

380
00:21:40,330 --> 00:21:44,050
it to the bank. 
So the bank can lend it out 10 

381
00:21:44,050 --> 00:21:49,130
times over and earn money of 
which you don't see any upside, 

382
00:21:49,690 --> 00:21:54,450
right when it goes right. 
When it goes wrong, then you 

383
00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:59,050
will definitely see you will be 
the one who pays the bill at the

384
00:21:59,050 --> 00:22:00,020
end. 
Correct. 

385
00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:03,660
If a bank fails and it gets 
billed out by a government or 

386
00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:08,140
like, that all eventually comes 
from the taxes and the people or

387
00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:13,500
the money printing and then it 
goes back to the debasement 

388
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:16,900
again. 
Yeah, hits you lose, tails you 

389
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:18,260
lose. 
It's just. 

390
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:20,900
Exactly. 
But also when you say they need 

391
00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:24,700
5%, they need to hold 5% of 
actual. 

392
00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:29,740
Money, or at least something 
they can give to their customers

393
00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:35,020
of all the of all the money 
that's been loaned out, right? 

394
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:39,700
So does that also mean that only
5% of people can actually get 

395
00:22:39,740 --> 00:22:44,100
all their money out of a bank if
they go to the bank and say I 

396
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:46,700
want my money? 
Well, technically it's worse 

397
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:49,780
than that because the reserves 
they hold on bank are actually a

398
00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:54,770
whole lot less than the 5%. 
So if you look at the US banking

399
00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:58,970
system, it's fractions of that. 
It's probably less than 1%. 

400
00:22:59,770 --> 00:23:03,650
So no, they don't have the cash 
available to give you. 

401
00:23:03,650 --> 00:23:06,370
If everyone went to the bank and
said, hey, we want our money 

402
00:23:06,370 --> 00:23:08,930
back, it's just not there, 
Sorry. 

403
00:23:11,010 --> 00:23:14,170
So if I sell you something and 
you give me cash and I hold it 

404
00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:19,130
on me, I actually own it more 
than when I put it in a safe 

405
00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:22,550
bank, correct. 
Because if you stripped away all

406
00:23:22,550 --> 00:23:27,030
of the the obligations that the 
bank had, they don't have the 

407
00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:29,590
cash there. 
That's that's a critical thing 

408
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:32,110
to understand. 
Now it might be backed by the 

409
00:23:32,110 --> 00:23:34,510
government in Australia. 
We've got the four pillars 

410
00:23:34,510 --> 00:23:37,710
policy, the Four Pillars Act, I 
should say the Four Pillars Act 

411
00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:40,310
basically is the four major 
banks in our country are 

412
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:44,150
guaranteed or underwritten by 
our federal government so that 

413
00:23:44,150 --> 00:23:48,930
if any depositor loses, you know
deposits, they will cover that 

414
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:51,730
up to $250,000. 
But what happens if you've got 

415
00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:56,330
$1,000,000 sitting in one bank, 
it's gone and that bank falls 

416
00:23:56,330 --> 00:24:00,130
over, you've lost 750,000. 
But don't worry, the the 

417
00:24:00,130 --> 00:24:01,770
government will give you a check
for 2:50. 

418
00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:03,690
So you haven't lost all of it, 
so. 

419
00:24:03,850 --> 00:24:05,650
All right. 
I think this is a nice stepping 

420
00:24:05,650 --> 00:24:07,810
stone. 
We're slowly getting towards 

421
00:24:07,810 --> 00:24:09,330
why? 
Why Bitcoin? 

422
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:14,330
I still wanted to ask you, like 
when we talk about this, like do

423
00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:19,320
you still think capitalism is? 
The most ethical economic 

424
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,840
system? 
Or isn't that even the topic 

425
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,280
that we are talking about? 
We don't know what capitalism is

426
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,400
like. 
We think we're operating with a 

427
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,920
capitalistic market. 
There is a pretense of a 

428
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,880
capitalistic market, but it is 
not a capitalistic market at 

429
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,620
all. 
It has all of the, you know, the

430
00:24:41,620 --> 00:24:45,060
trimmings of of capitalism or 
it's it's described that way. 

431
00:24:45,060 --> 00:24:47,820
But the second you get the 
government involved and and 

432
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:51,020
start regulating things, then 
that is no longer capitalism. 

433
00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:55,500
That is crony capitalism, which 
is the government looking after 

434
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:57,460
the major stakeholders in an 
industry. 

435
00:24:57,460 --> 00:24:59,140
And that's fundamentally what we
have. 

436
00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:02,300
We have market distortions 
created by government 

437
00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:05,740
regulations to look after the 
large players in each of those 

438
00:25:05,740 --> 00:25:08,900
industries and Facebook when 
they were under huge pressure 

439
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:14,520
and asked to go to Congress to 
basically discuss what they were

440
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,000
doing, to talk about online 
misinformation. 

441
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,120
The rest of it because Donald 
Trump won the election. 

442
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,640
Basically Mark Zuckerberg went 
to went to the regulators and 

443
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,320
basically said, you know, we're 
going to pay for 18,000 

444
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,200
moderators to sit on and 
basically review content on our 

445
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,360
site 24/7. 
And basically that was rubber 

446
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:36,720
stamped and great. 
If anyone runs a social media 

447
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,310
platform, they need to have 
18,000 moderators on the site to

448
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:43,430
monitor, you know, you know, 
speech. 

449
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:46,390
That's not satisfactory. 
Now what startup on earth has 

450
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:49,750
the ability to pay 18,000 
moderators to moderate content 

451
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:51,430
on a social media site? 
No one. 

452
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:56,110
So all of a sudden that that 
protection that is a basically a

453
00:25:56,110 --> 00:25:59,470
protection racket run by the US 
government to protect Facebook 

454
00:25:59,870 --> 00:26:02,510
from any competition. 
Because if anyone wants to enter

455
00:26:02,510 --> 00:26:05,840
the social media saying to 
compete with them, you know, 

456
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,800
where's your 18,000 moderators 
to make sure that no one's 

457
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,600
getting upset with, you know, 
everything that's on here. 

458
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,040
And I'm like that's. 
The same for for banks being 

459
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,480
compliant to a Basel or any 
other regulation, right. 

460
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,760
And This is why the banks 
typically have the lowest 

461
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,880
interest rates because they're 
the, they're the most closely 

462
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,720
aligned to the federal banks 
that that operate in the 

463
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320
jurisdictions. 
And then as you go out the risk 

464
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,920
curve, the interest rates of 
those, you know, the lesser 

465
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,280
lesser known banks goes up 
because their cost of funding 

466
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,920
goes up as well. 
Yeah. 

467
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,560
All right. 
So we talked about money. 

468
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,120
We talked about banks. 
We talked about holding wealth 

469
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,920
in, you know, what are ways to 
hold wealth or invest in things 

470
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,520
to keep your wealth? 
What is wealth and why should 

471
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,080
millennials care about it? 
That's an interesting question. 

472
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:02,880
So what is wealth? 
Wealth I believe is 

473
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:08,520
fundamentally where you store 
your assets. 

474
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,760
And basically, you know, wealth 
I believe gives gives clients 

475
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,840
options. 
It gives clients a sense of 

476
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,960
peace, of mind, a sense of 
security, a sense of being able 

477
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,080
to know that if something would 
have happened to them, they have

478
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,880
the ability to resolve certain 
situations that come up in their

479
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,000
life. 
It might be a significant event 

480
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,710
in their life, like the, you 
know, the a parent might get ill

481
00:27:35,710 --> 00:27:37,510
or a child might get ill, you 
have to pay for that. 

482
00:27:38,150 --> 00:27:41,950
I think wealth in, in my 
understanding basically provides

483
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:45,230
options to people. 
So some people define it 

484
00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:48,430
differently, but to me I think 
it it gives people optionality 

485
00:27:48,430 --> 00:27:50,350
and the more wealth you have, 
the more options you have. 

486
00:27:52,110 --> 00:27:57,670
And does that also tie into 
people wanting to be able to 

487
00:27:57,670 --> 00:28:01,230
save that over time that 
basically right that that when 

488
00:28:01,230 --> 00:28:04,410
you. 
Search for and hopefully find a 

489
00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:06,450
vehicle to save that wealth, 
right? 

490
00:28:06,450 --> 00:28:08,610
Because you don't know when 
you're going to get sick or your

491
00:28:08,610 --> 00:28:12,810
child is going to get sick or 
someone dies or whatever. 

492
00:28:14,370 --> 00:28:17,130
Is that also something you then 
take into consideration? 

493
00:28:17,130 --> 00:28:22,010
Like that time, that time 
aspect, I think it is because 

494
00:28:22,050 --> 00:28:25,330
our money is such doing such a 
bad job of being a store of 

495
00:28:25,330 --> 00:28:29,330
value. 
So because our money is so bad, 

496
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:33,030
we now have to look at, you 
know, investing it in things 

497
00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:37,270
like real estate or stocks to 
avoid that purchasing power just

498
00:28:37,390 --> 00:28:41,110
whittling away. 
And this is forcing people to 

499
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:44,030
think about, you know, savings 
in a very different way. 

500
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:47,830
We now have people saving money 
in the form of buying investment

501
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:53,070
properties or buying stocks or 
God help them, bonds, as a way 

502
00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:56,070
of, you know, you know, 
preserving wealth. 

503
00:28:56,430 --> 00:28:59,990
However, that's typically, you 
know, the conflation of of a 

504
00:28:59,990 --> 00:29:02,390
long term and a short term store
of value. 

505
00:29:02,550 --> 00:29:05,350
Store of value is meant to be a 
store of value where your money 

506
00:29:05,350 --> 00:29:08,830
can actually store the value. 
But because the money is so 

507
00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:12,350
broken, that money doesn't serve
that function anymore. 

508
00:29:12,350 --> 00:29:15,310
So we are forced out the risk 
curve to find riskier 

509
00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:17,510
investments that serve that 
function of saving. 

510
00:29:18,430 --> 00:29:21,190
Yeah, Okay. 
And then we get to what is 

511
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:23,430
probably the core question I 
want to answer with this 

512
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:25,670
podcast, and I'm interested to 
hear your answer. 

513
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,320
What is Bitcoin and why should I
care? 

514
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,920
Here's Bitcoin. 
I think Bitcoin is whatever you 

515
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,000
want it to be. 
And I say that because it 

516
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,800
provides you the greatest 
optionality that I know of. 

517
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,480
And what do I mean by that? 
Bitcoin. 

518
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,360
As you know what is Bitcoin? 
Bitcoin gives you the 

519
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,480
optionality on purchasing 
anything you want with it. 

520
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,860
So what is money again, money is
fundamentally whatever you want 

521
00:29:57,860 --> 00:29:59,580
it to be, because everyone wants
money. 

522
00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:04,740
It can purchase anything. 
So effectively, Bitcoin is money

523
00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:08,740
and money is Bitcoin, and 
Bitcoin is basically whatever 

524
00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:10,420
you want it to be. 
It's something you're going to 

525
00:30:10,420 --> 00:30:13,580
hold as an option on trading for
something that you want in the 

526
00:30:13,580 --> 00:30:16,380
future. 
And what's really special about 

527
00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:21,460
Bitcoin, I think, is that it is 
a it has the ability to hold 

528
00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:25,150
purchasing power over very 
lengthy periods of time without 

529
00:30:25,150 --> 00:30:29,390
getting caught down or bogged. 
Bogged down in all of those 

530
00:30:29,390 --> 00:30:31,990
investment decisions that you 
would have to make around what's

531
00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:34,750
the best stock, what's the best 
property, how much debt am I 

532
00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:36,350
going to take on with this 
property? 

533
00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:39,710
What areas do I need to be in? 
It's a very simple savings tool 

534
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:41,910
that is going to preserve your 
purchasing power over the long 

535
00:30:41,910 --> 00:30:45,230
term. 
And this is where, you know, as 

536
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:48,830
facetious as this sounds, what 
is, What is Bitcoin? 

537
00:30:49,310 --> 00:30:50,990
It's literally whatever you want
it to be. 

538
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,960
It can be a savings tool. 
It can be used to purchase a 

539
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,200
house, a car. 
It can be used to do whatever 

540
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,760
you want, or alternatively can 
literally sit there like a pet 

541
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,080
rock to preserve your purchasing
power into the future. 

542
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,080
And ironically, that is my 
preferred way of of thinking of 

543
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,680
Bitcoin as, you know, my little 
pet rock that preserves 

544
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,280
purchasing power for the options
that I may want to use in the 

545
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,560
future. 
Yeah, it's funny. 

546
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,240
I actually have the same like I 
am a. 

547
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:21,590
I'm a pretty risk averse person 
and a control freak to some 

548
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:24,030
point. 
Like I once made a tweet about 

549
00:31:24,030 --> 00:31:28,070
that, like that's exactly why 
I'm into Bitcoin, because it's. 

550
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:32,430
So it's actually, it's hard to 
understand, obviously, that's 

551
00:31:32,430 --> 00:31:34,950
why I'm talking on this podcast 
with people. 

552
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:39,030
But it's actually very simple, 
like I just see it as. 

553
00:31:39,460 --> 00:31:42,700
Yeah, how you said it, you know 
that's the term store value. 

554
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:46,060
I see it as a box where I put my
wealth and then I close the box 

555
00:31:46,060 --> 00:31:48,660
and I don't do anything and it 
just, it just stays there. 

556
00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:51,700
I don't have to look at 
anything. 

557
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:53,060
I don't have to calculate 
anything. 

558
00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:55,540
I don't have to do anything. 
It's just it sits there 

559
00:31:55,540 --> 00:32:01,340
protected over time until until 
I want to use it for something. 

560
00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:07,660
But do you think that that store
of value element is where all 

561
00:32:07,660 --> 00:32:09,900
the other stuff? 
Kind of like derives from, 

562
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:11,580
right? 
Like if I want to pay for 

563
00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:15,060
something that other with 
Bitcoin, that other person is 

564
00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:19,540
accepting it because they know 
they can store, you know, the 

565
00:32:19,540 --> 00:32:21,940
energy that that trade 
represents, right? 

566
00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:25,660
Like the value of that car or 
whatever we trade that they can 

567
00:32:25,660 --> 00:32:26,980
also actually keep it in 
Bitcoin. 

568
00:32:26,980 --> 00:32:31,060
So that's why they prefer it 
over any type of other money, 

569
00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:34,660
because it does have to store a 
value element that. 

570
00:32:36,050 --> 00:32:38,450
The regular money, let's call it
regular money, does not have 

571
00:32:38,450 --> 00:32:41,490
because it's melting at at least
2% a year. 

572
00:32:42,810 --> 00:32:46,770
I think all of those points are 
valid and in order to be a form 

573
00:32:46,770 --> 00:32:48,930
of money, it needs to have some 
subjective value. 

574
00:32:49,650 --> 00:32:53,210
And so, you know, people who are
accepting Bitcoin, whether they 

575
00:32:54,130 --> 00:32:57,570
accept it to convert it into, 
you know, Fiat or alternatively 

576
00:32:57,570 --> 00:33:01,770
they can they accept it to 
basically to add to their stack,

577
00:33:02,370 --> 00:33:04,610
I think you know, very closely 
aligned. 

578
00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:07,890
But the person who's adding to 
their stack I think is a more 

579
00:33:07,890 --> 00:33:11,010
meaningful bitcoiner because 
they're taking Bitcoin supply 

580
00:33:11,010 --> 00:33:13,850
off the market and not adding 
cell pressure. 

581
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:18,090
So this is where a circular 
economy running with a store of 

582
00:33:18,090 --> 00:33:20,890
value is going to create. 
There isn't enough circulating 

583
00:33:20,890 --> 00:33:24,530
supply of Bitcoin to facilitate 
all of the trade that's required

584
00:33:24,770 --> 00:33:27,730
on a daily basis. 
And then this is where we see 

585
00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:30,850
real price discovery, where the 
price of Bitcoin is going to go 

586
00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:35,260
through the roof because in in 
my work. 

587
00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:39,740
There's a limited amount of 
Bitcoin units to service an 

588
00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:42,020
expanding amount of trade, 
right? 

589
00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:44,780
Correct. 
And and this is the glorious 

590
00:33:44,780 --> 00:33:49,700
thing about a, you know, a hard 
cap, limited supply asset like 

591
00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:51,260
Bitcoin. 
They can't make any more of it. 

592
00:33:51,260 --> 00:33:52,580
It's 21 million. 
That's it. 

593
00:33:53,380 --> 00:33:56,180
And when people figure out what 
this thing is and they 

594
00:33:56,180 --> 00:34:00,180
understand what is money, 
they're going to accept nothing 

595
00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:02,780
but Bitcoin. 
And this is where, you know, 

596
00:34:02,780 --> 00:34:05,180
there are a few companies we 
work with where they've gone 

597
00:34:05,180 --> 00:34:08,179
down the rabbit hole they work 
in and around Bitcoin. 

598
00:34:08,179 --> 00:34:10,380
They have a very deep 
understanding of what it is. 

599
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:14,340
And ironically, they do nothing 
but except Bitcoin for their 

600
00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:15,820
services. 
Why? 

601
00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:18,780
Because they understand what 
money is and they don't want 

602
00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:23,300
basically shitty fear. 
And I mean, if you're in the ECB

603
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:25,820
and someone came to you and 
said, hey, except this 

604
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:29,659
Venezuelan Blvd. it's it's as 
good as money, you know you're 

605
00:34:29,659 --> 00:34:31,810
going to tell them to. 
Read it cuz it has the label 

606
00:34:31,810 --> 00:34:35,409
money, right? 
But to you it means nothing 

607
00:34:35,409 --> 00:34:38,770
because you don't care about the
Venezuelan Blvd. cuz it's 

608
00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:42,050
probably halved in value just on
the flight over from Venezuela. 

609
00:34:42,489 --> 00:34:45,690
Okay. 
So obviously you see Bitcoin 

610
00:34:45,690 --> 00:34:48,530
now, but in the beginning you 
mentioned you were interested in

611
00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:54,010
business, finance, economics and
it took you until learning about

612
00:34:54,010 --> 00:34:57,690
Bitcoin, what actual money is, 
so? 

613
00:34:58,330 --> 00:35:02,450
What made What made you see 
Bitcoin when like when did you 

614
00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:04,770
realize what you were 
investigating or looking at? 

615
00:35:06,250 --> 00:35:09,850
It was a very slow process. 
Sadly, it took me a very long 

616
00:35:09,850 --> 00:35:14,010
time to understand it and sadly 
they weren't the resources that 

617
00:35:14,010 --> 00:35:16,370
we have today, such as your 
podcast. 

618
00:35:17,210 --> 00:35:19,570
Back when I was trying to 
understand it, there was a very 

619
00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:22,130
limited understanding of it. 
There were very few books on it 

620
00:35:22,650 --> 00:35:25,450
and I was just very fortunate to
have a brother who was very 

621
00:35:26,370 --> 00:35:28,930
receptive to his older brother 
asking questions and he was 

622
00:35:28,930 --> 00:35:31,650
exceptionally patient. 
So it took me a very long time 

623
00:35:31,650 --> 00:35:37,370
to get it and I I just wonder if
I would take as long to get it 

624
00:35:38,050 --> 00:35:42,890
if I started today. 
And sadly I I probably wouldn't 

625
00:35:42,930 --> 00:35:46,610
because there are so many things
with Bitcoin that basically put 

626
00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:48,770
you off the track. 
And you know, I think about the 

627
00:35:48,770 --> 00:35:53,170
first financial lesson that I 
was given as a child was 

628
00:35:53,170 --> 00:35:56,290
something along the lines of if 
it sounds too good to be true, 

629
00:35:56,530 --> 00:36:00,570
it probably is. 
And when you talk about Bitcoin,

630
00:36:02,810 --> 00:36:06,290
it sounds too good to be true. 
Can you imagine a little bit 

631
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:08,330
later, you? 
Realize, Because everything else

632
00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:10,570
is so shitty, right? 
Yep. 

633
00:36:11,530 --> 00:36:16,860
You do the work and you realize.
Well, look, I think this thing's

634
00:36:16,860 --> 00:36:18,420
too good to be true, and it 
probably is. 

635
00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:22,660
So maybe I should allocate just 
a little bit of my net assets to

636
00:36:22,660 --> 00:36:26,060
it and then once I understand it
a little bit deeper, then I can 

637
00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:30,980
allocate more. 
But that is, therein lies the 

638
00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:34,290
dichotomy of Bitcoin. 
Is that, you know, you don't 

639
00:36:34,290 --> 00:36:36,330
understand it, so you don't want
to put money into it. 

640
00:36:36,370 --> 00:36:39,330
But in order to understand it 
and learn faster, you need to 

641
00:36:39,330 --> 00:36:42,330
put money into it. 
So there needs to be a fine line

642
00:36:42,370 --> 00:36:44,930
between, you know, what are you 
prepared to lose if you're going

643
00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:48,290
to invest in this, and then how 
do you accelerate your learning?

644
00:36:48,290 --> 00:36:51,410
And you know, I think for 
anyone's skin in the game 

645
00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:54,530
accelerates learning. 
So it's about getting 

646
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:57,970
comfortable with what you're 
prepared to lose if you and I 

647
00:36:57,970 --> 00:37:00,450
are completely wrong about this 
asset. 

648
00:37:00,570 --> 00:37:03,690
And it does go to zero. 
What can you sleep at night with

649
00:37:03,850 --> 00:37:08,610
having having put into Bitcoin? 
So therein lies the, you know, 

650
00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:12,690
the conundrum for people to face
that you know you want to get 

651
00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:15,530
started, but you don't want to 
be scammed, People don't want to

652
00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:18,490
look stupid. 
And when you hear people saying,

653
00:37:18,970 --> 00:37:23,200
hey, this thing's amazing and it
sounds too good to be true, that

654
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,040
little bit, it's daunting. 
It's daunting. 

655
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,160
Yeah. 
I do think, like, you have to be

656
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,000
stupid in order to learn, right?
Like you have to fail in order 

657
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,520
to figure out, like what 
actually works is it's a really 

658
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,200
interesting, interesting paradox
there. 

659
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,560
And just also as a little side 
note, like if Bitcoin turns out 

660
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,720
to be nothing, you know, I think
the the thesis still stands, You

661
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:49,200
know, it's either nothing or 
it's everything, right? 

662
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,540
Like that's. 
At one point I just adopted 

663
00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:54,660
that, but I think I also once 
said in a podcast like if this 

664
00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:59,260
turns out to be nothing, like an
actual scam or something, Like 

665
00:37:59,260 --> 00:38:02,620
if that actually turns out to be
the thing I really have some 

666
00:38:02,620 --> 00:38:04,180
soul searching to do. 
You know? 

667
00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:06,860
Like after, you know, looking 
into this for 10 years, 

668
00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:11,460
thousands of hours like this is 
just the logical thing that I 

669
00:38:11,460 --> 00:38:15,020
end up with. 
And if this turns out to be not 

670
00:38:15,020 --> 00:38:19,060
that thing, then honestly, I 
don't know what to. 

671
00:38:20,220 --> 00:38:24,460
What to trust anymore, right? 
Like I I I really feel like I 

672
00:38:24,740 --> 00:38:29,140
scoured the grounds and I 
learned all the things once. 

673
00:38:30,340 --> 00:38:32,540
I always share. 
Like I bought my first Bitcoin 

674
00:38:32,540 --> 00:38:35,700
at 300, but I also like that's 
not to flex because I also sold 

675
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:39,740
at 4000, right? 
So everyone gets in that new at 

676
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:42,220
the next congratulations. 
Of understanding well, yeah. 

677
00:38:44,350 --> 00:38:46,630
Well, yeah, congratulations. 
But when you see what it could 

678
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:49,310
have been, then you think like I
was stupid, but at that moment 

679
00:38:49,310 --> 00:38:51,870
that was my decision, right? 
And then you get back at each 

680
00:38:51,870 --> 00:38:59,030
new point of, I'd say new level 
of understanding not only the 

681
00:38:59,030 --> 00:39:02,190
system that we talked about, but
Bitcoin, but also yourself and 

682
00:39:02,270 --> 00:39:09,310
for example, how risk averse you
are or not and what you want to 

683
00:39:09,310 --> 00:39:14,300
do to build your life basically.
What do you what do you think is

684
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:17,300
the main thing that people need 
to unlearn before they can 

685
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:19,820
understand Bitcoin? 
Risk free rate does not 

686
00:39:19,820 --> 00:39:24,340
determine the value of an asset 
which translates. 

687
00:39:24,460 --> 00:39:29,300
To so our entire financial 
modeling whether it's valuing 

688
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:32,980
stocks or valuing investments or
understanding and you know 

689
00:39:33,020 --> 00:39:37,140
valuing risk or options pretty 
much revolves around an internal

690
00:39:37,140 --> 00:39:41,820
rate of return like and and that
is predicated on what is the 

691
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:45,510
interest rate that that asset is
going to cost you to hold it. 

692
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:49,870
So the riskfree rate is 
typically the Reserve Bank of 

693
00:39:49,870 --> 00:39:54,070
Australia, the Federal Reserve 
Bank of America whatever their 

694
00:39:54,070 --> 00:39:56,950
interest rate overnight is 
typically saying or the 10 year 

695
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:59,590
is typically saying as the 
riskfree rate of capital. 

696
00:39:59,590 --> 00:40:03,590
So what that is, is that's a 
benchmark that your investment 

697
00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:08,070
needs to return over just to 
break even because you can give 

698
00:40:08,070 --> 00:40:09,190
it. 
To the natural risk. 

699
00:40:09,590 --> 00:40:11,830
Right, correct. 
You can give it to the local 

700
00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:13,880
bank. 
Risk free and they'll give it 

701
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,440
back to you because they print 
the money. 

702
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,240
Now that's that's the minimum 
hurdle that needs to be made. 

703
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,120
And then you look at the cost of
capital, what are the hurdle 

704
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,760
rates that you want to see in 
order on to get a return on 

705
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,440
something. 
And so the problem is, is that a

706
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,400
lot of those returns and risks 
are basically calculated on the 

707
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,560
fact of what is the cash flow 
generated from holding a certain

708
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,480
asset. 
So if you look at stocks, they 

709
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,970
have dividends. 
That's a return on the asset. 

710
00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:43,970
You look at property that's got 
rental yields, that's a return 

711
00:40:43,970 --> 00:40:47,290
on property. 
If you look at bonds, they've 

712
00:40:47,290 --> 00:40:49,690
got interest rates or coupons 
that they pay you. 

713
00:40:49,810 --> 00:40:51,450
That's a return on holding an 
asset. 

714
00:40:51,570 --> 00:40:55,610
So all of these different assets
have a return profile, which 

715
00:40:55,610 --> 00:40:58,970
determines how much you get paid
for holding it. 

716
00:40:58,970 --> 00:41:02,210
Enter Bitcoin and you get paid 0
for holding it. 

717
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:06,100
So it's very difficult using the
traditional financial metrics of

718
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:09,980
valuing things to determine and 
ascribe a value for Bitcoin 

719
00:41:09,980 --> 00:41:14,220
because it breaks the mold in so
many respects with Bitcoin and 

720
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:17,340
traditional assets. 
And you know, I I think about 

721
00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:21,140
one of the things that, you 
know, sort of is, you know, 

722
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:23,980
diametrically opposed to 
traditional financial wisdom. 

723
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:26,620
Firstly, you know the first 
thing we've already discussed is

724
00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:27,980
if. 
If it's too good to be true, it 

725
00:41:27,980 --> 00:41:30,340
probably is. 
Ironically, with Bitcoin, I 

726
00:41:30,340 --> 00:41:33,100
don't believe that is the case. 
It's better than we understand 

727
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:35,020
it to be. 
We just don't have a clue of how

728
00:41:35,020 --> 00:41:39,060
good this thing can be. 
You look at Bitcoin and you 

729
00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:42,340
think, well, there's no, you 
know, there's no interest rate 

730
00:41:42,460 --> 00:41:44,460
with Bitcoin, so there's no 
return on it. 

731
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:47,100
So how do we value something 
that doesn't have a return on 

732
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:51,260
it, whereas all other assets on 
earth but the commodities have a

733
00:41:51,260 --> 00:41:53,820
return on it. 
So, you know, you're sort of 

734
00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:56,740
trying to mesh two worlds and 
there's no real way of doing 

735
00:41:56,740 --> 00:41:59,060
that. 
And then the other thing is 

736
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:04,140
Bitcoin is a transformational 
asset that you know basically 

737
00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:09,140
transcends any of the 
traditional forms of assets that

738
00:42:09,140 --> 00:42:12,020
we're familiar with today. 
And we'll totally redefine what 

739
00:42:12,020 --> 00:42:14,380
assets are and what the function
of money is. 

740
00:42:14,860 --> 00:42:18,260
But we just don't know that 
today because this is basically 

741
00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:21,540
a monetary, monetary instrument 
that's wrapped up in a new 

742
00:42:21,540 --> 00:42:24,450
technology that we really. 
You know, we can talk about 

743
00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:27,210
understanding it, but we have no
understanding of what the 

744
00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:29,930
implications are going to be 
with this long term in society. 

745
00:42:29,930 --> 00:42:32,850
And this is where we do our best
to understand it. 

746
00:42:32,890 --> 00:42:36,490
And you know, I try and apply a 
finance lens around it to come 

747
00:42:36,490 --> 00:42:39,890
up with some form of valuation 
metric for valuing this thing. 

748
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:44,130
But it's very difficult because 
you need to suspend belief in 

749
00:42:44,130 --> 00:42:47,530
the traditional ways that you 
know you've been trained to, to 

750
00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:51,790
value things. 
So when you say it transcends 

751
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:57,070
these other things like what's 
the, what's like the core 

752
00:42:58,270 --> 00:43:01,310
understanding in that, like why,
why do you say that? 

753
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:06,870
What is so different basically? 
There are probably, I think, 4 

754
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:10,870
things that are different about 
it to anything that has ever 

755
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:13,070
existed before. 
And these are four key 

756
00:43:13,070 --> 00:43:16,670
technologies which I think will 
totally redefine society. 

757
00:43:16,670 --> 00:43:19,390
It'll reshape things and. 
We don't have a way of 

758
00:43:19,390 --> 00:43:21,550
understanding what the 
implications of this will be 

759
00:43:21,550 --> 00:43:25,790
just yet or how to value it. 
So if I look at Bitcoin as a 

760
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:31,150
technology first and foremost 
and the technology, the 

761
00:43:31,150 --> 00:43:33,590
technologies that have been 
found or discovered with 

762
00:43:33,590 --> 00:43:37,510
Bitcoin, however you want to 
describe that and then describe 

763
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:42,030
those technology step function 
improvements to to money itself.

764
00:43:42,030 --> 00:43:45,590
I think there are four key 
things that that are a 

765
00:43:45,590 --> 00:43:47,950
technology improvement that we 
have never seen before. 

766
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,800
Now the first is seizure 
resistant. 

767
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,040
We've never had an asset that is
seizure resistant. 

768
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:58,240
So this is an asset that you and
I can walk around with with 12 

769
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:01,560
words in our head. 
That is a profound improvement 

770
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,920
of holding gold, or trying to 
store gold on your body or hide 

771
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,600
it, or, you know, have a title 
for a land deed or a land title,

772
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,640
something like that. 
No one can take that from you, 

773
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:14,910
right? 
That's the point. 

774
00:44:15,390 --> 00:44:18,750
Huge. 
And with all other assets, that 

775
00:44:18,750 --> 00:44:20,950
basically is not the case, 
right. 

776
00:44:21,310 --> 00:44:25,990
If you hold a bar of gold, I 
shoot you, I get the gold, it's 

777
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:28,950
mine, right? 
But even with real estate, for 

778
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:34,590
example, I think, well, I know 
some millennials who are into 

779
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:40,340
real estate, even that, as you 
mentioned, it's a deed like it's

780
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:43,420
a piece of paper. 
And when you sell your house to 

781
00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:47,900
me, the name changes from your 
name to mine. 

782
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:54,060
But that's still that ownership 
is, well, probably with a lot of

783
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:58,340
rules, it's kind of shown as to 
be mine. 

784
00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:03,620
But still, everything that 
determines whether or not it's 

785
00:45:03,620 --> 00:45:06,600
mine is outside of me. 
Correct. 

786
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,760
And and it is yours at the 
discretion of your government. 

787
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,200
So as long as you play by their 
rules, that's yours. 

788
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,840
However, the second you step out
of line, it is no longer yours. 

789
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,760
And you just need to look at, 
you know, the foreign reserves 

790
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,320
of Russia and what happened in 
the last 18 months to two years 

791
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,560
that they thought they owned 
those assets. 

792
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,120
Turns out they're on the SWIFT 
system and their 500 billion in 

793
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,360
foreign reserves are no longer 
controlled by them. 

794
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,350
They're not fixed. 
I think this for, well, 

795
00:45:35,350 --> 00:45:38,790
especially millennials in the 
Western world, sounds very dark 

796
00:45:38,830 --> 00:45:46,910
and unfamiliar. 
Like, I agree with it, but it 

797
00:45:46,910 --> 00:45:49,110
also feels very foreign to me, 
right? 

798
00:45:49,110 --> 00:45:52,030
Like a government could take 
away your house or your business

799
00:45:52,030 --> 00:45:55,670
or whatever. 
But perhaps it's not about the 

800
00:45:55,670 --> 00:46:00,150
actual action, but more about 
the concept. 

801
00:46:00,150 --> 00:46:05,970
As in, you only own it by 
because other people allow you 

802
00:46:05,970 --> 00:46:07,890
to own it, right? 
Maybe if we stick to that 

803
00:46:07,890 --> 00:46:09,650
concept, right. 
And then we say like, well, 

804
00:46:09,650 --> 00:46:14,130
because it is that the people 
that allow you to own it can 

805
00:46:14,130 --> 00:46:16,410
also take it away from you 
conceptually, right? 

806
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:18,810
And that should trigger 
something. 

807
00:46:20,010 --> 00:46:25,410
Well, as to how much you, how do
you say, accept that, right. 

808
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:27,930
If you accept that, of course, 
then it's fine, yeah. 

809
00:46:28,770 --> 00:46:32,170
Well, this is the problem that, 
you know, in Western democracies

810
00:46:32,170 --> 00:46:35,650
we haven't really had cause to. 
Question our governments and 

811
00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:38,850
their ability to take our 
things, I think, tell me if I'm 

812
00:46:38,850 --> 00:46:41,370
wrong or not, but I think you 
had a little bit of trouble with

813
00:46:41,370 --> 00:46:43,770
some farmers over there where 
the government wanted to take 

814
00:46:43,770 --> 00:46:45,090
their land. 
Is that correct? 

815
00:46:46,090 --> 00:46:48,530
And they had no choice in 
whether they wanted to sell it 

816
00:46:48,530 --> 00:46:50,130
or not. 
The government was going to take

817
00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:54,010
it well. 
I I I'm not that's familiar with

818
00:46:54,010 --> 00:46:56,930
it, but I think conceptually 
yes. 

819
00:46:56,930 --> 00:46:59,050
The answer is yes. 
But I don't I don't know 

820
00:46:59,250 --> 00:47:01,570
everything about it. 
I also do think it's bigger 

821
00:47:01,570 --> 00:47:06,090
outside of our country than 
actually within our country. 

822
00:47:06,090 --> 00:47:08,610
Or maybe that's the whole point 
that we. 

823
00:47:08,650 --> 00:47:11,810
Know it could be, but regardless
it's, it's outside of the 

824
00:47:11,810 --> 00:47:15,170
control of the property owner to
determine what they want to do 

825
00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:15,810
with it. 
Yeah. 

826
00:47:16,210 --> 00:47:18,730
So that's that point. 
Yeah, that that is absolutely 

827
00:47:18,730 --> 00:47:21,050
the critical point that we have 
never had to think about this 

828
00:47:21,050 --> 00:47:23,330
until now. 
And now all of a sudden, there 

829
00:47:23,330 --> 00:47:29,410
seems to be some fairly 
egregious overreach on behalf of

830
00:47:29,450 --> 00:47:31,930
our governments to want to 
dictate what we do with our own 

831
00:47:31,930 --> 00:47:34,570
property. 
And the whole question of 

832
00:47:34,570 --> 00:47:36,890
property rights is now up for 
debate again. 

833
00:47:37,330 --> 00:47:40,450
Yeah. 
So do you actually own what you 

834
00:47:40,450 --> 00:47:42,890
think you own? 
And the question, well, the 

835
00:47:42,890 --> 00:47:45,170
answer to that is very simply, 
no, we don't. 

836
00:47:45,450 --> 00:47:47,490
We no longer own what we think 
we own. 

837
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:50,650
We own that the discretion of 
our government that as long as 

838
00:47:50,650 --> 00:47:52,700
we. 
Play by the rules and are seen 

839
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:56,780
to be good actors, then that is,
you know, the government will 

840
00:47:57,020 --> 00:47:58,860
allow us to continue to think we
own it. 

841
00:47:58,940 --> 00:48:02,660
But if for whatever reason they 
don't want you to do that or 

842
00:48:02,660 --> 00:48:04,820
don't want you to hold that, 
they have the power to take that

843
00:48:04,820 --> 00:48:07,900
from you, which is terrifying, 
yeah. 

844
00:48:08,740 --> 00:48:12,100
So does that also tie into, I 
wrote this down and I think you 

845
00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:15,940
mentioned it now before. 
Like I don't really view storing

846
00:48:15,940 --> 00:48:19,420
my wealth in Bitcoin as buying 
or investing. 

847
00:48:20,670 --> 00:48:25,430
I I just think of it as a safer 
place to to put that what I 

848
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:27,910
accumulated like what's your 
what's your view on that. 

849
00:48:30,310 --> 00:48:33,590
It sounds like you're almost 
getting to think about Bitcoin 

850
00:48:33,590 --> 00:48:36,310
as a unit of account, and the 
financial game that you're 

851
00:48:36,310 --> 00:48:39,270
playing is very different to 
most people in that most people 

852
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:41,350
are counting how many dollars 
they have. 

853
00:48:42,070 --> 00:48:45,350
And your game that you're 
playing, by the sound of it, is 

854
00:48:45,390 --> 00:48:49,600
how many satoshis you have. 
Well, that's interesting. 

855
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,280
I don't know if I am there yet, 
but I more view it as like okay 

856
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,320
I had well, yeah, it's a fair 
point. 

857
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:03,520
Like I had money, energy in one 
system, which well, also in this

858
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:09,760
conversation I think my end 
conclusion was I don't think 

859
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,000
that is the best system. 
I found a better system, a 

860
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,120
supreme system. 
That's where I'm moving that 

861
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,420
energy to store it until 
whenever I want or need to use 

862
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:23,300
it. 
So that's where I'm at. 

863
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:24,860
I do understand what you're 
saying. 

864
00:49:24,860 --> 00:49:27,860
And I see some people as well, 
like they only think about okay,

865
00:49:27,860 --> 00:49:31,740
how many, how many Satoshi's or 
how many Bitcoin do I have? 

866
00:49:31,740 --> 00:49:34,900
Like, I still think in euros and
dollars, like I have to buy 

867
00:49:34,900 --> 00:49:39,260
bread and coffee. 
So I'm definitely not there yet.

868
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:43,540
I meant it more in a way that 
when you understand that that 

869
00:49:43,540 --> 00:49:46,910
system that you're basically 
forced up in because you were 

870
00:49:46,910 --> 00:49:50,870
born in country XYZ, right? 
If that is something that you 

871
00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:56,310
don't think is most beneficial 
for building your wealth, then 

872
00:49:56,310 --> 00:50:03,350
you just move to something else.
Yeah, and I think this is a 

873
00:50:03,350 --> 00:50:05,870
conclusion that a lot of 
bitcoiners get to after studying

874
00:50:05,870 --> 00:50:10,470
this thing for countless hours. 
That you know when you compare 

875
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:14,470
that to the opportunity cost of 
investing in something else. 

876
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,360
It's very difficult to justify 
investing in other things other 

877
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,600
than Bitcoin, particularly at 
this point in time. 

878
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:29,040
Very difficult and is this why 
we I think we, but also others 

879
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,800
say that this, that Bitcoin 
could be a solution to the 

880
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,440
problems that the current system
creates. 

881
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Yeah, I think it could be. 
And this is where. 

882
00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:44,410
It it, it will not be without a 
fight though, because 

883
00:50:44,650 --> 00:50:47,370
governments want to have control
and this is where we've seen 

884
00:50:47,370 --> 00:50:51,010
central bank digital currency, 
CBD C's rolled out or they want 

885
00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:52,370
to roll that out. 
And why is that? 

886
00:50:52,370 --> 00:50:54,490
Because they want to maintain 
control of the Ledger. 

887
00:50:54,970 --> 00:51:00,010
And you know, I'm reminded of an
old saying, he who controls the 

888
00:51:00,010 --> 00:51:03,810
pen wins. 
If you get to write what's on 

889
00:51:03,810 --> 00:51:06,810
the Ledger, you've got a very 
high chance of winning whatever 

890
00:51:06,810 --> 00:51:09,450
game you're playing. 
And the governments do not be 

891
00:51:09,610 --> 00:51:12,960
fake the rules, right? 
The ruler that makes the rules. 

892
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,760
And you know, not many people 
want to give up that pen once 

893
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,960
they've got it. 
And the government sure as hell 

894
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,360
don't want to do that because 
then someone else is writing 

895
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,800
their Ledger and they are then 
they are then accountable to 

896
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,400
someone else. 
Yeah, well, I think this is a 

897
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,280
great illustration of what 
Bitcoin gives. 

898
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,240
Everyone has the pen. 
That's that's The funny thing 

899
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,120
and to me it's the fairest game 
I've seen and it's the. 

900
00:51:37,620 --> 00:51:40,460
The other thing that I think it 
totally redefines in society is 

901
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:44,180
the ability to trust again that 
we now have a Ledger that is 

902
00:51:44,180 --> 00:51:48,180
fair because everyone can access
that no one can alter. 

903
00:51:48,780 --> 00:51:51,460
And the the ability for no one 
to alter it means that it's fair

904
00:51:51,460 --> 00:51:54,300
for everyone. 
And this is something that you 

905
00:51:54,300 --> 00:51:56,500
know in light of all that we've 
gone through and the economic 

906
00:51:56,660 --> 00:51:58,780
sort of our peoples that we've 
seen since COVID. 

907
00:51:59,780 --> 00:52:03,100
This is something that I think 
is longed for from broader well,

908
00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:06,170
from broader society that. 
They don't understand what this 

909
00:52:06,170 --> 00:52:07,570
thing is. 
They don't understand what a 

910
00:52:07,570 --> 00:52:09,770
Ledger is. 
And most importantly, they don't

911
00:52:09,770 --> 00:52:12,970
understand the importance of, 
you know, not being able to have

912
00:52:12,970 --> 00:52:15,330
a government to rewrite the 
Ledger to suit them. 

913
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:18,010
So this actually works for the 
masses. 

914
00:52:18,010 --> 00:52:20,170
But I think the government's 
going to do a very good job of 

915
00:52:20,490 --> 00:52:24,650
creating a psyop that is going 
to tell everyone how horrible 

916
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:27,850
Bitcoin is because it's going 
to, I don't know, boil the 

917
00:52:27,850 --> 00:52:29,970
oceans or whatever other FUD you
want to think of. 

918
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,320
Well, and that's what I also 
really love about Bitcoin, that 

919
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,760
forced transparency basically, 
you know, like the boiling the 

920
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:44,200
oceans argument I think is very 
interesting because Bitcoin is 

921
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,800
ultimately, you know, is 
fundamentally transparent even 

922
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,520
with this energy use. 
You know, like the rebuttals of 

923
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:57,520
any simple argument against 
Bitcoin are so basic and so 

924
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,760
simple that for me, it makes me 
laugh sometimes when I see these

925
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,880
things where I think you're 
trying to play the people who 

926
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,160
argument against Bitcoin, 
they're trying to play within 

927
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:15,000
this old game of obscurity and 
vaguely describing any counter 

928
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,960
arguments and stuff like that. 
But because Bitcoin is 

929
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:23,390
fundamentally transparent, like 
there's a rebuttal to any any 

930
00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:27,630
counter argument based in the 
foundation of the actual thing, 

931
00:53:27,630 --> 00:53:30,030
It's not even an opinion of 
people, you know, It's just a 

932
00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:33,550
representation of of the data in
that sense. 

933
00:53:33,550 --> 00:53:37,270
And and I love that 
contradiction between, you know,

934
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:40,590
if you have to say you're 
transparent or honest or 

935
00:53:40,590 --> 00:53:43,950
whatever, you are not right. 
You can only be that when you 

936
00:53:43,950 --> 00:53:47,150
can show it. 
And I think Bitcoin can show 

937
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:55,150
that 24/7, 365 all around where 
any alternative to that does not

938
00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:57,510
have that. 
And therefore even even just 

939
00:53:57,510 --> 00:54:02,430
that simplest thing for me makes
Bitcoin superior in that sense, 

940
00:54:02,430 --> 00:54:03,870
right? 
Like, yeah. 

941
00:54:04,030 --> 00:54:07,230
And this is a very hard list to 
learn because you know, when 

942
00:54:07,230 --> 00:54:10,030
you're entering a new area, you 
don't know a lot about it. 

943
00:54:10,350 --> 00:54:14,150
And you see mainstream media, 
you know, describing narratives 

944
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:19,310
that are, you know, trying to 
undermine Bitcoin. 

945
00:54:19,310 --> 00:54:22,470
It's a very easy thing to get 
behind and support. 

946
00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:27,050
But you know the the the 
narratives of father. 

947
00:54:27,050 --> 00:54:31,370
Basically I believe about 
Bitcoin, you know about the the 

948
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:34,690
negative effects of it is 
storytelling without facts. 

949
00:54:35,210 --> 00:54:37,610
And then this is the glorious 
thing about Bitcoin is that you 

950
00:54:37,610 --> 00:54:41,850
get to present the counter 
arguments to that and absolutely

951
00:54:41,850 --> 00:54:45,610
walk the floor with a whole host
of really well thought out, well

952
00:54:45,610 --> 00:54:51,090
researched arguments that 
totally destroy the reasons why 

953
00:54:51,090 --> 00:54:54,500
you wouldn't want this. 
In in the mainstream. 

954
00:54:54,580 --> 00:54:57,940
So we're very fortunate, like 
there are a lot of super smart 

955
00:54:57,940 --> 00:55:00,620
people working on Bitcoin and 
every day I'm shocked at, you 

956
00:55:00,620 --> 00:55:04,060
know, how clever some of the 
people are who have, you know, 

957
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:07,020
basically done a lot of work to 
counter a lot of these arguments

958
00:55:07,060 --> 00:55:09,900
against Bitcoin. 
So we're exceptionally fortunate

959
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:12,260
in that capacity. 
Yeah, I agree. 

960
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:17,380
Like I love Daniel Batten on 
Twitter who has a big investment

961
00:55:17,380 --> 00:55:24,130
fund in in Bitcoin related 
energy companies. 

962
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:25,330
Right. 
And the companies that are 

963
00:55:25,330 --> 00:55:29,250
mining. 
And I absolutely love how how do

964
00:55:29,250 --> 00:55:33,330
you say like well methodical and
scientific, he is in countering 

965
00:55:33,330 --> 00:55:38,130
any any argument that comes. 
You know any energy or 

966
00:55:38,130 --> 00:55:40,410
environmental argument that 
comes across the table. 

967
00:55:40,410 --> 00:55:42,530
Yeah that's amazing. 
And also actually really love. 

968
00:55:42,730 --> 00:55:44,210
I don't know. 
I don't know what the title is 

969
00:55:44,210 --> 00:55:46,370
of the article your your brother
wrote. 

970
00:55:48,130 --> 00:55:49,970
Oh, Bitcoin is time traveling 
energy. 

971
00:55:50,050 --> 00:55:55,530
Yeah, that, that and anyone. 
I would say Google that, but 

972
00:55:55,530 --> 00:55:59,210
also read it like five times 
before you actually understand a

973
00:55:59,250 --> 00:56:00,930
bit of it. 
It was, yeah, crazy. 

974
00:56:00,930 --> 00:56:03,330
But I love. 
I think that's also kind of like

975
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:09,970
why at least I'm into Bitcoin. 
Like, I learned so much, I 

976
00:56:10,010 --> 00:56:13,850
learned so much and I unlearned 
so many things that, yeah, I 

977
00:56:13,850 --> 00:56:17,450
just really enjoy. 
I now enjoy being wrong or 

978
00:56:17,450 --> 00:56:19,690
learning something new. 
You know, like my origin. 

979
00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:21,250
Like what? 
I saw this in the previous 

980
00:56:21,250 --> 00:56:23,930
podcast. 
Like when I worked at a bank, I 

981
00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:25,570
learned that the money in the 
bank is not yours. 

982
00:56:25,570 --> 00:56:28,330
And at that moment I've just 
felt like I'm such an idiot. 

983
00:56:28,330 --> 00:56:30,810
Like I'm an idiot. 
But OK, now I really want to 

984
00:56:30,810 --> 00:56:34,170
understand, you know? 
And I think that's just a fun, 

985
00:56:34,610 --> 00:56:39,890
fun way of operating, basically 
just understanding that you 

986
00:56:39,890 --> 00:56:45,260
don't know everything and that, 
you know other people's spend 

987
00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:48,100
their time and energy to explain
their point of view. 

988
00:56:48,100 --> 00:56:51,140
And then if you if you do the 
time by reading something 

989
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:54,980
someone else wrote, you know and
and do the reflection as to how 

990
00:56:54,980 --> 00:56:58,140
much you actually understand or 
how it changes your beliefs, I I

991
00:56:58,140 --> 00:57:00,780
think, you know, we can only 
turn out for the better there. 

992
00:57:00,780 --> 00:57:06,540
So yeah, I I wanted to finish up
with with three last questions. 

993
00:57:08,140 --> 00:57:10,820
What kind the kinds of first 
principles influence your 

994
00:57:10,820 --> 00:57:14,070
thinking about the topics that 
that Bitcoin touches? 

995
00:57:14,070 --> 00:57:18,270
Like, obviously, Bitcoin touches
a lot of dimensions, politics, 

996
00:57:18,270 --> 00:57:23,830
economics, finance, tech. 
I think for me the number one 

997
00:57:23,830 --> 00:57:27,150
primary driver, sort of from a 
first principles perspective, 

998
00:57:27,230 --> 00:57:31,470
which I think is exceptionally 
powerful in understanding the 

999
00:57:31,470 --> 00:57:34,830
world and understanding any 
problem that you're trying to 

1000
00:57:34,830 --> 00:57:39,190
solve, is show me the incentive,
I'll show you the outcome. 

1001
00:57:40,050 --> 00:57:42,850
Understanding incentives in a 
system is critical for 

1002
00:57:43,090 --> 00:57:45,290
determining what is happening 
there. 

1003
00:57:45,370 --> 00:57:50,170
And this is where Bitcoin I 
think, is the most perfect 

1004
00:57:50,170 --> 00:57:52,290
system for aligning incentives 
that I've seen. 

1005
00:57:53,010 --> 00:57:56,370
And understanding that 
incentives are aligned at every 

1006
00:57:56,370 --> 00:58:01,850
level in this system, it tells 
me that this has the highest 

1007
00:58:01,850 --> 00:58:05,850
probability of surviving and 
succeeding and that is critical 

1008
00:58:05,850 --> 00:58:08,890
to understand from a first 
principles perspective now. 

1009
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,680
That doesn't really help in 
understanding Bitcoin. 

1010
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,160
But from a from a first 
principles perspective, I think 

1011
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,040
it's very important to to to 
then understand what is Bitcoin 

1012
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,440
and go down that rabbit hole of,
you know, searching for 

1013
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,920
understanding it on a deeper 
level so that you can understand

1014
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,880
that this is the most perfect 
system that's ever been 

1015
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,920
developed for aligning 
incentives for 8 billion humans.

1016
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:38,560
Yes, this is a huge huge. 
It's a complete sea change that 

1017
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,920
we've never seen before. 
Nothing on Earth has had the 

1018
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,920
opportunity, you know, align 8 
billion people's interests. 

1019
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,840
You know, the best we've been 
able to do, depending on how you

1020
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,800
look at it, is, you know, 
Facebook's got 2.8 billion 

1021
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,560
people. 
You know, whether or not that's 

1022
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,360
an alignment of interest, that's
another thing. 

1023
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,080
But, you know, that's some 
degree, probably people, yeah, 

1024
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,560
but that's a collective group of
people. 

1025
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,000
And you know, maybe the largest 
religion on earth has been able 

1026
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,600
to align 2 billion people's 
interests. 

1027
00:59:06,140 --> 00:59:07,860
But nothing has captured 
everyone. 

1028
00:59:08,180 --> 00:59:11,020
And this is where you know, I 
look at Bitcoin from a first 

1029
00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:13,660
principles perspective and once 
you understand, show me the 

1030
00:59:13,660 --> 00:59:14,900
incentive, I'll show you the 
outcome. 

1031
00:59:15,980 --> 00:59:19,020
Understanding what is the 
primary driver of humans. 

1032
00:59:19,420 --> 00:59:22,020
Sadly, we haven't developed past
the reptilian brain. 

1033
00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:26,260
It's that simple. 
Under pressure, that reptilian 

1034
00:59:26,260 --> 00:59:28,700
brain and those instincts get 
amplified. 

1035
00:59:29,260 --> 00:59:34,020
And our our most primary of 
decision making comes down to 

1036
00:59:34,020 --> 00:59:37,990
two things. 
Fear and greed, fight or flight.

1037
00:59:38,550 --> 00:59:42,190
And so once you understand that,
that's the thing driving out, 

1038
00:59:42,270 --> 00:59:45,790
you know, sophisticated and 
cultured brain. 

1039
00:59:46,670 --> 00:59:49,470
We're really no better than 
little reptiles running around 

1040
00:59:49,470 --> 00:59:52,190
making decisions based on that. 
But we didn't have the 

1041
00:59:52,190 --> 00:59:55,110
abstraction to, you know, create
reasons for it. 

1042
00:59:55,150 --> 00:59:59,030
But at the the end of the day, 
it comes down to greed and fear.

1043
00:59:59,030 --> 01:00:01,110
And when people understand this,
they're going to get really 

1044
01:00:01,110 --> 01:00:03,910
greedy to have more, and they're
going to be really fearful if 

1045
01:00:03,910 --> 01:00:05,340
they don't have any. 
Yeah. 

1046
01:00:05,860 --> 01:00:08,580
Well, if we tie that back to 
what we talked about about you 

1047
01:00:08,620 --> 01:00:13,100
know the money in the banks and 
they're only obligated by rules 

1048
01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:16,380
to keep 5% of the money. 
Well, if if you talk about 

1049
01:00:16,380 --> 01:00:21,660
incentives, right, if if you 
only need to keep 5%, then your 

1050
01:00:21,660 --> 01:00:28,220
incentive is to well spend or 
lend that other 95% to to 

1051
01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:30,660
anything basically. 
And what is the outcome of that?

1052
01:00:30,700 --> 01:00:36,580
Is a foundational flawed, a 
foundationally flawed system 

1053
01:00:36,820 --> 01:00:41,260
right that eventually, when it 
keeps on growing, it has to blow

1054
01:00:41,260 --> 01:00:44,140
up at some point? 
That's it. 

1055
01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:48,540
And therein lies the opportunity
for something that has a 

1056
01:00:48,540 --> 01:00:50,780
virtuous cycle. 
And this is where Bitcoin, I 

1057
01:00:50,780 --> 01:00:52,620
think, has that ability. 
Yeah. 

1058
01:00:53,420 --> 01:00:56,980
All right, well, let's talk 
about your price target. 

1059
01:00:57,020 --> 01:01:02,200
If we don't measure in how many 
bitcoins someone has, it's crazy

1060
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,640
to say, but it's in the 
millions, in the billions of 

1061
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:09,920
dollars per Bitcoin, what's the 
simplest way to explain how you 

1062
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,240
got here? 
There are two ways that we can 

1063
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,000
get to a multi billion dollar 
Bitcoin. 

1064
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,680
There's a more nuanced take on 
it, which leads to a much higher

1065
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,120
number than what I'm about to go
through. 

1066
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,840
But the simplest way of looking 
at this, I think, is thinking 

1067
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,440
about if Bitcoin is the most 
perfect form of money that we've

1068
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,030
created. 
Once people understand that, 

1069
01:01:30,110 --> 01:01:33,150
they will want for nothing else 
when it comes to dealing in 

1070
01:01:33,150 --> 01:01:36,310
trade. 
So that's what we mentioned 

1071
01:01:36,310 --> 01:01:39,150
before, right? 
If I if I know that Bitcoin is 

1072
01:01:39,150 --> 01:01:43,070
superior and I am selling 
something, I only want Bitcoin. 

1073
01:01:43,190 --> 01:01:45,390
For it. 
Give me the Give me the good 

1074
01:01:45,390 --> 01:01:46,830
stuff. 
I don't want the US dollar. 

1075
01:01:46,830 --> 01:01:48,790
I don't want the euro, all 
right? 

1076
01:01:49,270 --> 01:01:51,030
I want the real stuff. 
Give me the real money. 

1077
01:01:51,390 --> 01:01:53,910
And this is how. 
Countries around the world 

1078
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:56,870
suffering from hyperinflation 
deal, they they want and they 

1079
01:01:56,870 --> 01:02:00,030
pay a premium for the US dollars
because that's that's not 

1080
01:02:00,030 --> 01:02:02,150
hyperinflating relative to the 
local currency. 

1081
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:05,550
So understanding that premise 
that I think we're all driven by

1082
01:02:05,550 --> 01:02:08,190
reason and we we make rational 
decisions. 

1083
01:02:08,630 --> 01:02:11,110
Once people understand that this
is the best form of money ever 

1084
01:02:11,110 --> 01:02:14,950
invented, people are going to 
only accept Bitcoin for for 

1085
01:02:14,950 --> 01:02:19,790
payment of their services. 
There is. 900 bitcoins minted on

1086
01:02:19,790 --> 01:02:23,910
a day and we've got $6.3 
trillion of global trade on a 

1087
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:27,550
daily basis. 
So assuming that there's a 

1088
01:02:27,550 --> 01:02:31,430
functioning credit market and 
stable coin on on Bitcoin that 

1089
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:36,470
we can effectively use, then my 
expectation is is that all 

1090
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:39,910
global trade will be facilitated
by what is mined on the day. 

1091
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:44,510
So that would be 6.3 trillion / 
900 Bitcoin. 

1092
01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:48,810
And that would give us a 
valuation close to $7 billion as

1093
01:02:48,810 --> 01:02:50,370
well. 
Yeah. 

1094
01:02:51,250 --> 01:02:59,130
So basically you say if everyone
wants the best form of money for

1095
01:02:59,130 --> 01:03:05,650
whatever they trade, they will 
trade anything they have for the

1096
01:03:05,650 --> 01:03:07,890
amount of that money that is 
available. 

1097
01:03:08,770 --> 01:03:12,010
Correct. 
And you know, you think about 

1098
01:03:12,010 --> 01:03:14,330
this and a lot of people go, oh,
but that would be more money 

1099
01:03:14,330 --> 01:03:16,020
than. 
Is in the world right now and 

1100
01:03:16,020 --> 01:03:20,100
like yes that is correct. 
It would be because market cap 

1101
01:03:20,540 --> 01:03:23,780
is downstream of price which is 
created at the margin. 

1102
01:03:23,780 --> 01:03:27,180
So price is created, which means
what someone will pay for it, 

1103
01:03:27,740 --> 01:03:30,380
right? 
Not the total accumulated amount

1104
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:35,300
of money, correct? 
Did I say that correctly? 

1105
01:03:36,100 --> 01:03:37,980
Correct. 
And this is where market cap is 

1106
01:03:37,980 --> 01:03:40,940
really a meaningless metric. 
So a lot of people hear that and

1107
01:03:40,940 --> 01:03:43,440
go. 
Oh, that's not possible because 

1108
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,520
instead of, you know, a 
quadrillion dollars worth of 

1109
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,720
value in the world, there'd be 
thousands of quadrillion dollars

1110
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,360
worth of value in the world. 
It's like you're missing the 

1111
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,280
point, but you know, 
understanding that people will 

1112
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,560
only accept the best money and 
there's only a certain amount of

1113
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,400
Bitcoin minted on the day. 
That to me is the truest 

1114
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,280
expression of what Bitcoin 
should be valued at because it 

1115
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,440
provides the greatest 
optionality in the future. 

1116
01:04:06,980 --> 01:04:10,860
Now, we're a long way from 
having 8 billion people educated

1117
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:13,340
on that understanding. 
But this is the beauty of this 

1118
01:04:13,340 --> 01:04:15,620
podcast. 
We get to discuss these ideas, 

1119
01:04:15,980 --> 01:04:19,380
Think about it rationally. 
If anyone thinks that you know 

1120
01:04:19,380 --> 01:04:23,980
these ideas and thoughts are, 
you know, nonsensical or 

1121
01:04:24,380 --> 01:04:26,620
outlandish, I'm happy to hear 
the rebuttal. 

1122
01:04:26,900 --> 01:04:29,860
But based on, you know, some of 
the things that we've discussed 

1123
01:04:29,860 --> 01:04:32,380
tonight, that's my expectation 
of what will happen now, how 

1124
01:04:32,380 --> 01:04:34,790
long it takes to get there. 
Is another question. 

1125
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:36,150
You know how long is a piece of 
string? 

1126
01:04:36,190 --> 01:04:39,150
I don't know. 
But understanding that at some 

1127
01:04:39,150 --> 01:04:42,030
point in time the world will 
understand what the best form of

1128
01:04:42,030 --> 01:04:49,070
money is, and unless you are 
very low IQ or maybe don't 

1129
01:04:49,070 --> 01:04:51,950
understand how the world works, 
there's only one form of money 

1130
01:04:51,950 --> 01:04:54,590
that you want to accept and that
is Bitcoin. 

1131
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:58,190
All right. 
To extend on that before we wrap

1132
01:04:58,190 --> 01:05:02,550
up, like if if that represents 
more dollar units than what the 

1133
01:05:02,550 --> 01:05:06,250
actual money in the world is, 
right, which is basically what 

1134
01:05:06,250 --> 01:05:10,090
people tell you, isn't that also
the point where we lose those 

1135
01:05:10,090 --> 01:05:13,810
numbers and it's more about the 
value of the asset in which we 

1136
01:05:13,810 --> 01:05:18,210
then save and trade? 
Basically, wouldn't that 

1137
01:05:19,330 --> 01:05:23,090
eventually result in a lot of 
prosperity that people will 

1138
01:05:23,090 --> 01:05:29,450
actually do more valuable work 
to earn this ultimate asset? 

1139
01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:31,650
Yes, it will. 
It would. 

1140
01:05:32,330 --> 01:05:35,050
I believe it would totally 
redefine society and it would 

1141
01:05:35,050 --> 01:05:39,250
allow us to, you know, to quote 
GG, you know, it would allow us 

1142
01:05:39,250 --> 01:05:43,610
to do value for value. 
So there'd be far less frivolous

1143
01:05:44,130 --> 01:05:48,250
opportunities squandered, you 
know, because you've got access 

1144
01:05:48,250 --> 01:05:50,890
to cheap credit when credit's 
really expensive. 

1145
01:05:50,890 --> 01:05:52,970
You want to build something 
that's really valuable that 

1146
01:05:52,970 --> 01:05:55,210
people are going to want to pay 
a fortune for. 

1147
01:05:55,950 --> 01:06:00,030
Because doing anything other 
than that is is a huge 

1148
01:06:00,030 --> 01:06:02,310
opportunity cost to just holding
your Bitcoin. 

1149
01:06:02,710 --> 01:06:05,750
So all of a sudden, I think 
humans are going to get insanely

1150
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:09,910
creative to to create these 
opportunities of value to to 

1151
01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:12,030
deliver to to bitcoins 
throughout the world. 

1152
01:06:12,150 --> 01:06:16,590
And then all of a sudden it's 
going to unlock a whole host of,

1153
01:06:16,750 --> 01:06:19,070
you know, human ingenuity and 
creativity that's going to 

1154
01:06:19,070 --> 01:06:21,510
produce a whole host of things 
that we can we can't even 

1155
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:24,070
imagine today. 
So I think it completely 

1156
01:06:24,070 --> 01:06:26,760
redefines and reshapes. 
What our future looks like for 

1157
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,360
the better. 
Sounds like that results in true

1158
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,760
capitalism. 
It may well, it may well. 

1159
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,160
And I'm not that. 
I think that there's no place 

1160
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:37,920
for the government. 
I think there is in some way 

1161
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,680
shape or form, but I just think 
it will be in a drastically 

1162
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,440
reduced position to what it is 
today. 

1163
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,040
All right. 
Last question, What's the core 

1164
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,880
belief you will never let go? 
To make light of this I I try 

1165
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:52,720
and keep an open mind, so I'm 
not sure. 

1166
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,560
About a core belief that I have,
that I that I will never let go 

1167
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:59,800
and I'll I'll share with you one
story about why that what what 

1168
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,920
changed my thinking on this. 
So it's quite comical and to 

1169
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:10,120
think about this, but I was an 
absolutely toilet paper over guy

1170
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:15,170
and you know the argument. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1171
01:07:15,210 --> 01:07:18,090
This sounds so ridiculous. 
I had this argument day before 

1172
01:07:18,090 --> 01:07:22,210
yesterday. 
So now before we go into it, are

1173
01:07:22,210 --> 01:07:24,010
you an over guy or are you an 
under guy? 

1174
01:07:24,010 --> 01:07:27,010
I'm an over guy, but I heard a 
really compelling under 

1175
01:07:27,170 --> 01:07:30,370
argument. 
Well, I I've been an over guy my

1176
01:07:30,370 --> 01:07:35,730
entire life. 
Yeah, until until I got a dog 

1177
01:07:36,050 --> 01:07:42,170
that loved eating toilet paper. 
And so the over guys when you've

1178
01:07:42,170 --> 01:07:46,070
got a dog. 
They will just literally empty 

1179
01:07:46,070 --> 01:07:49,350
the roll and it goes and it's 
like, Oh my God, now the dog's 

1180
01:07:49,390 --> 01:07:52,270
eating the whole toilet roll and
got to deal with those issues. 

1181
01:07:52,750 --> 01:07:55,190
However, yeah, you can hide it 
on the backside. 

1182
01:07:56,030 --> 01:07:59,710
Well, on an under they just keep
running and that thing keeps 

1183
01:07:59,710 --> 01:08:04,350
folding over and the dog never 
gets the tissue, so it never 

1184
01:08:04,350 --> 01:08:07,960
comes off the spool. 
So this is, you know, an opinion

1185
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,400
I held really tightly was as an 
over guy for many, many years. 

1186
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:17,040
But the dog changed my mind 
about six years ago, so I try 

1187
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,920
not to hold any opinions too 
tightly. 

1188
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:20,800
All right, Well, that's very 
funny. 

1189
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,640
I think I had this conversation 
with my with my girlfriends. 

1190
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,840
We are both over people. 
But she also really wants a dog,

1191
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,640
so maybe that'll change at that 
moment when we have a dog. 

1192
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:33,720
Okay, That's a great. 
That's a great answer. 

1193
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,080
Well, thanks so much for this 
talk. 

1194
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,439
I really enjoyed it. 
Where can people follow you, 

1195
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:42,319
Find you? 
Yeah. 

1196
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,240
This is the moment to share. 
Thank you. 

1197
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:50,920
Well the website I've got is the
bitcoinadvisor.com and that is 

1198
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:54,240
Advisor with an ER. 
You can find me on Twitter. 

1199
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:59,240
Peter BTC Advisor. 
And any questions my D Ms. are 

1200
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,279
open love to talk and help 
anyone who's looking at 

1201
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,399
collaborative custody or estate 
planning concerned about self 

1202
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:07,840
custody. 
In that capacity we do a really 

1203
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,520
good job of making sure clients 
are in a position to hold and 

1204
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,439
securely self custody their own 
Bitcoin. 

1205
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,520
And I'm proud to announce that 
in the last seven years we 

1206
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,200
haven't lost a single Satoshi 
helping clients do this. 

1207
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,240
So it's a record I'm very proud 
of and. 

1208
01:09:24,260 --> 01:09:26,740
I would like to see all coins 
come off the exchange so we can 

1209
01:09:26,740 --> 01:09:29,540
see some real price action, 
price discovery. 

1210
01:09:29,540 --> 01:09:32,100
So that's it for me. 
Brilliant. 

1211
01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:33,979
Thanks so much and keep in 
touch. 

1212
01:09:34,700 --> 01:09:36,020
Brad, love to. 
Thanks man. 

1213
01:09:36,300 --> 01:09:38,300
Cheers. 
I hope you enjoyed this episode.

1214
01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:41,300
If you did, it would be amazing 
if you could rate, review and 

1215
01:09:41,300 --> 01:09:43,859
subscribe on the podcast 
platform of your choice. 

1216
01:09:44,180 --> 01:09:46,859
It will help us educate more 
millennials on the importance of

1217
01:09:46,899 --> 01:09:48,859
Bitcoin. 
You can follow and connect with 

1218
01:09:48,859 --> 01:09:50,180
me on Twitter. 
I'm Bramk. 

1219
01:09:50,420 --> 01:09:54,470
That's at Bramk, and if you are 
or know someone who has an 

1220
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:56,750
interesting perspective on 
Bitcoin that's worth sharing, 

1221
01:09:56,750 --> 01:09:59,030
hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1222
01:09:59,030 --> 01:10:00,950
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1223
01:10:00,950 --> 01:10:02,630
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1224
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:04,190
Thanks for listening. 
Bye.