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Hey there, this is Pram Constand
and you're listening to Bitcoin 

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00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,000
for Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,720
podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 

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most relevant technology that 
you, my fellow millennials, 

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should understand and adopt. 
But first, a little word from 

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our sponsor, the Bitcoin 
Conference in Amsterdam. 

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In a little over three weeks, on
October 12th and 13, the most 

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brilliant minds in Bitcoin from 
across Europe and beyond will 

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come together for two days of 
learning, teaching and inspiring

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the Bitcoin community. 
It will be the first Bitcoin 

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conference that I'm attending 
and I'm eager to learn, engage 

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and party with other bitcoiners.
You can use my promo code BFM 

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00:00:38,580 --> 00:00:42,980
for 10% of your tickets. 
That's BFM to get 10% of your 

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00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:44,900
tickets. 
Now let's move on to this 

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episode of Bitcoin for 
Millennials. 

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I'm joined by Marc van 
Fersenthal. 

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Mark is an entrepreneur whose 
journey has taken him from 

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psychology and high stakes poker
to a dedicated focus on Bitcoin.

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Fueled by the 2020 pandemic, 
Mark took an extraordinary leap 

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of faith. 
He sold everything and embarked 

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on a nearly three-year global 
journey with his family. 

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Questioning deeply ingrained 
beliefs about money, economics, 

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and social inequality, he came 
to understand the broken Fiat 

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financial system and how little 
control individuals actually 

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have over their financial 
destiny. 

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This put him on a mission to 
help individuals and businesses 

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seamlessly integrate Bitcoin 
into their lives, as he now does

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with his company. 
Don't miss this compelling 

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conversation where we explore 
the philosophical and spiritual 

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journey that led us both into 
Bitcoin and hopefully will help 

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you too. 
Enjoy this episode and please 

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let me know what you think, 
right It's working. 

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Seems like it. 
Actually you are around the 

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corner, right? 
Like we are literally 300 meters

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apart, but I don't have a. 
I guess so. 

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I guess we could have done this 
life as well. 

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I'm not entirely sure why we 
chose this way, but this is cool

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as well, right? 
I don't have a set. 

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Do you have a set? 
No, no, yeah, no, no, not. 

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What do you mean by set, by the 
way? 

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I like, I like to record 
locally. 

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Well, maybe if there's another 
sponsor, then, you know, later 

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on we can have a physical or 
recording. 

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We'll have a lot of equipment, 
so probably if we if we look at 

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what we all have, it would be a 
nice setting. 

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I'm not sure if we have 
everything we need, but we we 

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can find out probably next time.
OK, well, maybe later we'll do 

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it like this. 
Mark. 

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Welcome to Bitcoin for 
millennials. 

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Right. 
Like you're the 4th guest. 

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I'm I'm happy that you're here. 
I think you have a really 

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interesting story that is fun 
and nice to share with the 

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audience that we're building. 
But first a quick check which 

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generation do you belong to? 
I guess I'm a millennial, right?

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I'm from 1985. 
So, yeah, Okay. 

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Well, then we are both 
millennials. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, nice. 

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Do you actually identify as this
generation? 

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For like how people identify 
with stuff nowadays. 

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Well, no. 
Well, at first, definitely no. 

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And now, Because the more you 
read, the more you study, the 

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more you learn about all those 
different generations, right? 

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And you hear a lot of shit 
talking about boomers. 

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So, right. 
Because they had it all and they

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had way more opportunity and 
yadda yadda and I don't 

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particularly like that victim 
mindset. 

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So to me, everyone is equal. 
I truly don't care which 

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generation you are or aren't. 
What I guess is like be unique, 

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be yourself and make shit 
happen, right? 

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That's actually what I think and
that's basic answer to your 

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question I guess. 
Yeah, no, I love that. 

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I think it's it's interesting 
how people now identify with all

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these external things nowadays, 
right? 

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Like I I think you read this 
book too. 

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Like one of my favorite books is
Untethered Soul Michael Singer. 

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It's like the self development 
book. 

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Yeah. 
Well by the way, eventually I 

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think all these books revolve 
around the same concepts, right?

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But told in a different way. 
But I like he starts off with, 

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you know, if you ask someone a 
question like who are you, You 

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know? 
And people start with like I my 

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name that was given by my 
parents, you know, I'm my job or

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I'm a man or a woman or 
whatever, you know, like it. 

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That has become like way worse 
nowadays. 

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Like people identify with a lot 
of all these external things 

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instead of, yeah, I think you 
know, the self like who they, 

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who they actually are, right? 
Like, what's your idea on that? 

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No, I'm. 
I'm with you on that. 

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Like it's all made-up, right. 
It's all. 

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So I studied psychology. 
So then you pretty quickly learn

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how your mindset you know this 
this collection of limited 

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beliefs, emotions, thoughts, and
all those patterns that are all 

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from the outside going in. 
And if everything from the 

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outside is going in and you 
actually identify with all of 

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it, you suddenly have an 
identity that has nothing to do 

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with the real true you. 
But if you go too far into this 

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rabbit hole, like, you will 
quickly find out that almost 

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nothing is really you like. 
It's basically all made-up. 

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And what I believe strongly is 
if you can, body is not you. 

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Right, Yeah, right. 
It's like so if you can think 

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about that. 
Out loud like we do now. 

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You couldn't make the argument 
that you can made-up for 

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yourself the way you wanted to. 
And then it becomes a a a 

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benefit, it becomes a a a form 
of power, right. 

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And so I would say if if, if 
everyone would be less willing 

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to listen to all the things that
they've been taught in school 

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and by their parents and by the 
society, because they those are 

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all narratives. 
And just create your own 

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narrative. 
And I think that if you do that,

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I strongly believe that Bitcoin,
we be probably going to talk 

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about Bitcoin as well. 
I think so, yeah. 

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Does that a lot, you know? 
And you can see that there are 

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multiple narratives flying 
around and you can of course 

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choose one of those narratives 
and then identify with it. 

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And so the rest is all bad. 
Only that particular narrative 

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of those particular hardcore 
bitcoiners. 

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That's the one I identify with. 
The rest is bad. 

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Or you just create your own 
narrative and be part of the the

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global movement. 
That bit Bitcoin actually is in 

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your own unique way. 
That's that's how I think of it.

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Does it make sense? 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, I know. 
I love that. 

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And I think in general, that's 
also what Bitcoin brings, right?

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Like when people talk about is 
this a product or whatever? 

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No, it's a it's a protocol. 
It's a base layer set of rules 

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that anyone can adopt and and 
follow, but you can apply it in 

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all these different ways, right?
So no, I fully agree with that. 

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And I think it also really 
challenges people that because 

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it's a protocol, right, with a 
set of rules that if you want to

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play, you have to follow the 
rules. 

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That eventually also leads to 
anything built on Bitcoin has 

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the foundation of these rules 
that anyone can see, right? 

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And also with all the 
transactions and the Ledger, 

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etc. 
So it's kind of like forces 

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transparency all throughout the 
layers that are built upon this 

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protocol. 
I actually had a Twitter 

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conversation last week and I 
think I also mentioned it in my 

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episode with Peter Dunward. 
I love to say this right when 

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people or institutions have to 
say that they are righteous or 

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transparent or acting correctly 
or fair or whatever. 

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Like when they have to say it, 
they are not. 

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Yes, they have to say it because
they can show it. 

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And what I love about Bitcoin is
that A the protocol and B 

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anything built on top. 
It has to follow the rules. 

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And the rules are there for 
anyone to see and you can agree 

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to follow them or not. 
But like, there's no like, it's 

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yes or no, right? 
And so anyone doing anything 

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with Bitcoin, they, yeah, they 
can try to talk shit, but 

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eventually they can be held 
accountable in in the most 

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transparent way possible. 
So they cannot only say they 

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are, you know, doing something 
fair, but they actually have to 

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show it like they have to. 
Like if you say you have to show

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it now and they say no, then you
already know that they're not 

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acting in a correct way. 
Yeah, right. 

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And yeah, I absolutely love that
about Bitcoin. 

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And I think that also challenges
a lot of narratives and 

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thoughts, frameworks, whatever, 
how things people use to operate

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their personal life or 
businesses in this. 

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Yeah, so if you study humans, if
you study the brain of humans 

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and. 
It's you will find out that we 

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are indeed inherently corrupt 
right like it's we are also 

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inherently good so we we 
actually have both of those 

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sides in every human beings. 
So if you then start to think 

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about the all the corruption 
that we have experienced already

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in the world and you realize 
that it's all man made 

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corruption, then transparency is
suddenly a very important 

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feature to have. 
And yeah, this, this. 

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This distant transparency is the
only way out, right? 

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It's the only way that really 
keeps us honest. 

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So in a way I experienced 
already, if and it doesn't 

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matter if it's on LinkedIn, on 
Twitter, in real life, every 

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time when I meet people and they
actually do not like Bitcoin, or

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they do not love it or and they 
have studied it, studied it, or 

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they do somehow know what it is.
It's simply because they don't 

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like that part of Bitcoin. 
They don't want to be exposed, 

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right? 
They don't want to be seen, They

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want to have secrets. 
And I guess therefore, everyone 

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who likes Bitcoin, after they've
studied a little bit, I already 

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know they have the right 
foundation. 

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For me to connect with them. 
And of course they can have 

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thoughts about things that are 
differently than mine, but 

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still, I already know it's not 
what it's about. 

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Right, exactly. 
Do whatever you want. 

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But the fact that you love 
Bitcoin once you've studied it 

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for at least a few hours, I 
already know. 

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You're the right kind of man, 
right kind of woman, right kind 

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of people for me. 
And that's an important feature 

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of Bitcoin as well. 
It actually exposes the ones 

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that still want to be lying and 
the ones that actually want to 

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be truthful with themselves and 
with others. 

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Yeah, now I fully agree. 
I think it's really learning 

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about Bitcoin and well, I think 
deciding if you want to adopt 

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it, spend more time or do 
something with it. 

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Like it's also really like 
spiritual journey in a sense. 

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That and I wrote some questions 
down about this and I think 

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we'll get to that. 
But there's so many things you 

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have to like well, learn a, but 
also like unlearn right and 

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challenge yourself and really 
understand like, OK, I don't 

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know everything. 
And even when I discover 

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something new that that I would 
rationally deem true. 

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But if it goes like against all 
my beliefs that I've learned, 

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that's just really hard thing to
integrate and adopt and then to 

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actually live by, right? 
So now I fully agree with that 

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and I also agree like first time
we met, this is the first time 

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we talk, you know, but first 
time we met, I think we talked 

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for an hour or something, You 
know, like that that it just 

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goes, yeah, naturally like you 
understand what type of person 

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you were talking to. 
And then again, like we can 

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disagree on anything but the the
underlaying layer basically is a

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certain, yeah, makes us have a 
certain connection that, yeah, 

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gives each other respect without
I think just not knowing each 

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00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:57,990
other for that long, you know. 
But we can still jam like this, 

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which I think is something that 
we really miss nowadays, right. 

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00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:05,630
Like people, people see the 
world as zeros and one or black 

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and white or yes or no, like 
binary or not binary nowadays. 

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But I mean like so simple, like 
simplistic, simplistic, right. 

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But it's it's it's very hard. 
It's it's very hard to be alive,

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actually, right? 
Yeah. 

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It's just it's it's hard like 
it's not, it's not always fun or

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00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,760
nice, but that's just how it is,
right? 

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00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,120
Like you can think something 
about that, but yeah, like you 

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00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,040
cannot really change it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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So I honestly believe we missed 
that foundational layer that we 

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00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,720
then in this case bitcoiners 
already have. 

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00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,440
By knowing Okay you're talking 
to a bitcoiner, he probably 

227
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,800
thinks differently about 
specific stuff, because yes, we 

228
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,840
are different, but the base 
layer, the foundation layer is 

229
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,920
quote UN quote the same. 
And that feels really good. 

230
00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:00,080
It's really easy to connect if 
the foundation is already there.

231
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:03,980
And then you can have debates 
about almost any topic and it 

232
00:13:03,980 --> 00:13:07,380
can go can go head to head as 
well. 

233
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:09,980
You can be different, you can 
think differently. 

234
00:13:10,260 --> 00:13:13,220
But the thing that you now see 
outside worries me, of course, 

235
00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:17,220
because I cannot say the things 
that I want to say if I'm in a 

236
00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:20,540
debate or in a conversation, 
because people really don't want

237
00:13:20,540 --> 00:13:24,730
to hear specific things and I. 
Sort of thing that because that 

238
00:13:24,730 --> 00:13:29,530
foundational layer is so corrupt
or messed up, we are not able to

239
00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:33,370
say what we want anymore. 
And then you get people who stop

240
00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:35,290
talking. 
And if we stop talking, we stop 

241
00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:37,690
learning. 
If we stop learning, we go 

242
00:13:37,690 --> 00:13:39,770
backwards. 
And that's what I feel is 

243
00:13:39,770 --> 00:13:42,910
happening in society. 
So, and I think a lot of 

244
00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:47,470
bitcoiners even maybe they see 
it because they they they think 

245
00:13:47,470 --> 00:13:51,270
about it a lot or they they are 
smart or whatever and some don't

246
00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:53,350
see it because they don't think 
about it too often. 

247
00:13:53,550 --> 00:13:57,710
But I guess subconsciously 
everyone in bitcoins, Bitcoin 

248
00:13:57,710 --> 00:14:00,750
feels it. 
And I think it's also a part why

249
00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:03,350
Bitcoin attracts so many 
different people. 

250
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:06,630
They feel this disconnection 
with the world, they don't know 

251
00:14:06,630 --> 00:14:09,870
why, and it's also what you were
mentioning, the disconnection 

252
00:14:09,870 --> 00:14:11,680
with their own identity. 
Right. 

253
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,040
They have this made-up story 
about themselves. 

254
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,680
They don't feel the connection 
with that narrative and 

255
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:21,200
therefore they do drugs, they do
alcohol, they work too much, 

256
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,960
they go work out too much or too
little. 

257
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,560
They eat too much or too little.
And all those things are just, I

258
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,600
think, something from the 
outside that's a consequence of 

259
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,400
not being connected to the true 
you and the real you. 

260
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,510
Yeah, I think I want to ask you 
something like when you say, and

261
00:14:40,510 --> 00:14:44,110
I talked about this before in 
the podcast but also in other 

262
00:14:44,110 --> 00:14:49,550
episodes, like when we talk to 
people about Bitcoin, you know, 

263
00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:53,030
like I think British Hall said 
to me, like, oh, you're being, 

264
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:55,310
you're being robbed. 
You know, like inflation is 

265
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:59,510
theft and all these things. 
And and in my experience, when I

266
00:14:59,910 --> 00:15:02,750
talk with people about Bitcoin, 
I try to avoid these words, 

267
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:04,350
right? 
Or what you say, like the system

268
00:15:04,350 --> 00:15:07,350
is corrupted, right? 
Like, like, I agree. 

269
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:11,360
But when you start off with 
these words or with these like 

270
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,840
statements, then that really 
puts people off. 

271
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,560
And it's a really hard, yeah, 
what follows is a really hard 

272
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,420
conversation then. 
Right. 

273
00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:23,820
Because like I I have a very 
good friend and we talk a lot 

274
00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:25,660
about Bitcoin. 
He doesn't have any Bitcoin, but

275
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:28,060
and I'm trying to, you know, 
like get get him there. 

276
00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:30,900
But when I say like, oh, the 
money is corrupted and and 

277
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,580
you're being stolen from, then 
he just turns off Like he he 

278
00:15:34,580 --> 00:15:38,220
just, he he says like, oh, 
that's so like why do you use 

279
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:39,780
these words? 
You know, that's so harsh. 

280
00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:42,860
And this is that. 
And so, So what do you think 

281
00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:44,340
about this? 
Like, I find it very hard to 

282
00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:47,540
then continue the conversation 
because I love him, you know, 

283
00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:52,580
and I want him to see it. 
Um, But yeah, there's something 

284
00:15:52,580 --> 00:15:54,500
that's holding him back. 
But perhaps there's also 

285
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:56,300
something that I could do 
differently. 

286
00:15:56,300 --> 00:15:57,660
Like like what do you think 
about this? 

287
00:15:57,980 --> 00:16:01,740
Yeah, no, of course I agree. 
And it's it's difficult in 

288
00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:04,940
practice. 
So in theory I fully agree, 

289
00:16:04,940 --> 00:16:08,980
because I think if you know how 
the brain and how humans work. 

290
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:14,440
We can only change someone's 
mind by let him or her change 

291
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,400
it, right? 
So we cannot change. 

292
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,440
This means that the probably the
best technique is to to one know

293
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,080
your shit and to do not, like, 
present that information but ask

294
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,720
questions, because questions 
turn that around. 

295
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,880
Yes, it's difficult for me as 
well. 

296
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,520
I mean I we love to podcast as 
well that's that means we love 

297
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,840
to talk. 
We love to speak. 

298
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,160
We love love to have interesting
debates. 

299
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,400
And if you only. 
Ask questions. 

300
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,880
You are actually. 
And that's the important part 

301
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,360
that I think guys like we and 
others have to change our 

302
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,920
mindset in. 
We are actually more in control 

303
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,400
of the outcome of the 
conversation if we ask questions

304
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,400
then instead if we present all 
the info. 

305
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,800
Because if we of course present 
all the info, they have all 

306
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,920
those associations with all that
information and they are going 

307
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,119
to create their own narratives. 
And your friend in this example 

308
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,700
he is. 
A good friend. 

309
00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:12,540
And he also is honest about what
he feels and then says to you, 

310
00:17:12,819 --> 00:17:17,020
look, I don't, I don't like it 
if you talk like this, so let's 

311
00:17:17,020 --> 00:17:19,540
let's quit altogether. 
So that's being honest. 

312
00:17:19,540 --> 00:17:23,900
But 99% of people, they just 
stop listening to you, act like 

313
00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:26,980
they are listening and then opt 
out anyways, right? 

314
00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:29,020
You don't change minds in this 
way. 

315
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:32,100
So yes, I agree. 
However, in practice, like I 

316
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:36,460
said when I was starting this 
little little, little preach. 

317
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:41,030
I think in in practice it's 
really difficult because you 

318
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:45,270
have been in all those corners 
of off this rabbit hole already 

319
00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:48,550
and all the things that they 
want to say you already know. 

320
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:52,110
So before they say it, you 
already want to like got it, got

321
00:17:52,110 --> 00:17:56,430
it out and therefore they don't 
have a chance in the 

322
00:17:56,430 --> 00:17:57,910
conversation. 
So it's not actually a 

323
00:17:57,910 --> 00:18:00,150
conversation and they don't 
actually believe that you're 

324
00:18:00,150 --> 00:18:02,430
listening to what they are 
feeling and to what they are 

325
00:18:02,430 --> 00:18:05,110
sensing. 
So everyone with that's the 

326
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:07,470
advice I give myself on record 
right now. 

327
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:10,430
So hopefully nobody listens in 
my direct environment. 

328
00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:13,910
But start from zero every time. 
Every time. 

329
00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:15,670
Start from zero and just ask 
questions. 

330
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:17,230
Then you will probably get 
there. 

331
00:18:17,230 --> 00:18:20,470
Because they do know. 
They do know because they, 

332
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:24,510
especially the people who 
already, I hate to say, woken 

333
00:18:24,510 --> 00:18:26,310
up, but you you understand what 
I mean. 

334
00:18:26,670 --> 00:18:31,830
They already sense or feel this 
is not how my life should be. 

335
00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:35,860
They they, they are dissatisfied
about things. 

336
00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:38,460
That's why they eat too much. 
That's why they drink too much. 

337
00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:39,940
That's why they've used too much
drugs. 

338
00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:41,980
That's why they do work that 
they don't like. 

339
00:18:42,260 --> 00:18:44,700
They have created this narrative
that all these things are, quote

340
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,260
UN quote normal. 
But they aren't and they know 

341
00:18:47,260 --> 00:18:50,340
it. 
And I guess if you and I come 

342
00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:53,940
with the with the Bitcoin 
questions, the philosophical 

343
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:58,420
Bitcoin questions, they do want 
to be honest and they do want to

344
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,890
be vulnerable. 
But not if you and I percent how

345
00:19:01,890 --> 00:19:05,090
life should be, right. 
So now 100%. 

346
00:19:05,170 --> 00:19:05,490
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

347
00:19:05,530 --> 00:19:08,850
So I stopped that a long time 
ago. 

348
00:19:08,850 --> 00:19:13,370
So I do try to ask questions, 
but it's more about, yeah, I 

349
00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:15,450
think my point was more about 
it's just the words. 

350
00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:18,450
Like, sometimes people just turn
off because they hear certain 

351
00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:20,930
words. 
But I think that also ties back 

352
00:19:20,930 --> 00:19:24,210
to, I wanna say, like this 
personal journey, right? 

353
00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:26,810
Like opening your mind in a 
certain sense. 

354
00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:31,030
Well, when you actually are 
aware of what you mentioned, you

355
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:35,630
know that's okay, my life is 
like this. 

356
00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:38,950
But I don't think it should be 
like what are the influences 

357
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:42,550
here, like outside of me and 
what are the things that I can 

358
00:19:42,550 --> 00:19:45,820
control? 
And then from there, perhaps a 

359
00:19:45,820 --> 00:19:48,380
seed is planted to open your 
mind. 

360
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:51,780
Like I always told myself, like 
how I view myself, like how I 

361
00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:55,140
learned about this is just like 
you have to open doors in your 

362
00:19:55,140 --> 00:19:57,900
mind that you even that you 
didn't even know were there, 

363
00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:00,860
right. 
And then when new information 

364
00:20:00,860 --> 00:20:04,380
comes in, yeah, you have to 
battle with like the narratives 

365
00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:08,660
that you you thought you 
understood or knew or believed 

366
00:20:08,660 --> 00:20:09,740
or whatever. 
And then? 

367
00:20:10,290 --> 00:20:12,570
Yeah, it's just a slow. 
It's a slow process. 

368
00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:14,130
No, but this ties back to the 
words. 

369
00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:17,290
This ties back to the words you 
were mentioning, like those more

370
00:20:17,290 --> 00:20:20,730
aggressive words about stealing 
and and corruption and 

371
00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:23,370
propaganda and whatever. 
One more thing about that. 

372
00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:25,410
Yes. 
So that closes the doors in 

373
00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:27,970
their minds. 
So they have associations with 

374
00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:30,450
those words and then they 
instantly stop listening. 

375
00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:33,690
So therefore I would say the 
only way is to turn it around 

376
00:20:33,770 --> 00:20:38,850
and you can only know which 
words they use if you let them 

377
00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:40,250
talk. 
Right. 

378
00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:41,930
So therefore the question party.
Yeah. 

379
00:20:41,970 --> 00:20:44,010
Yeah, yeah. 
All right. 

380
00:20:44,010 --> 00:20:48,770
So you just came back from a 
three-year global journey with 

381
00:20:48,770 --> 00:20:52,210
your family and are now fully 
focused on Bitcoin. 

382
00:20:53,050 --> 00:20:56,450
What? 
I love that you did this, but 

383
00:20:56,650 --> 00:20:59,890
what I noticed is there's 
similar stories to yours. 

384
00:21:00,010 --> 00:21:02,010
There's also a fellow Dutchman 
who did the same. 

385
00:21:04,010 --> 00:21:05,970
What's his name? 
Didi Tahutu. 

386
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:10,930
He went also all in on Bitcoin. 
But there's a lot of these 

387
00:21:10,930 --> 00:21:13,250
stories, right? 
Like, what do you think fuels 

388
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:15,050
this? 
Wow. 

389
00:21:15,050 --> 00:21:19,130
Yeah, that's a good question. 
And like, of course I can speak 

390
00:21:19,370 --> 00:21:23,530
for myself and I can speak for 
the ones that I came across 

391
00:21:23,530 --> 00:21:26,410
while traveling, right? 
Look, we have two little 

392
00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:29,610
daughters, right? 
One at the time was barely one 

393
00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:32,570
year old, and the other was 
barely four years old. 

394
00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:34,900
So now they are four and seven, 
right? 

395
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:39,180
So a lots of people don't 
believe that this is possible 

396
00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:42,740
with really young kids, but of 
course it is possible. 

397
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:47,420
And I guess the the, the things 
that we were talking about 

398
00:21:47,420 --> 00:21:50,860
already in this convo. 
So the things about asking 

399
00:21:50,860 --> 00:21:53,020
yourself the question, is this 
actually my life? 

400
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:55,580
Is this actually me or is this 
all made-up? 

401
00:21:55,580 --> 00:21:59,540
And if so, by whom? 
If you ask those questions, I 

402
00:21:59,540 --> 00:22:03,670
think you end up with Bitcoin. 
More often than not, if you go 

403
00:22:03,670 --> 00:22:06,110
deep enough, like, of course you
can go. 

404
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:07,750
Yeah. 
So the spiritual thing is 

405
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:10,590
downstream from money, right? 
Like, I think that's one of the 

406
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:16,590
things that I see as one of the,
like, pillars of why Bitcoin. 

407
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:21,390
And I have to say, like, I don't
always understand it fully as to

408
00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:24,830
why that is. 
So I assume something still and 

409
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:26,030
I still don't understand it 
fully. 

410
00:22:26,030 --> 00:22:29,710
But what I hear a lot is every 
everything, all the problems we 

411
00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:33,260
have is downstream from the 
money. 

412
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:38,540
And how I kind of like shape 
that is okay. 

413
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:41,420
We have no clue how much money 
there is. 

414
00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:44,460
Money is made by the Press of a 
button. 

415
00:22:44,660 --> 00:22:48,100
Nothing is backing the money. 
Actually, I was in a Twitter 

416
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:50,540
conversation with a guy who 
said, yeah, money is backed by 

417
00:22:50,540 --> 00:22:54,330
the debt that someone owes and 
that they're gonna repay it or 

418
00:22:54,330 --> 00:22:56,450
something like that. 
That didn't make any sense to 

419
00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:58,410
me. 
So I just think that the money 

420
00:22:58,410 --> 00:23:02,210
is not backed by anything and 
work is backed by energy. 

421
00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:06,330
You put in energy. 
So that is already not a great 

422
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:09,370
equation. 
Compare that to Bitcoin. 

423
00:23:09,970 --> 00:23:12,250
It is backed by energy. 
It's fully transparent. 

424
00:23:12,250 --> 00:23:14,610
The rules are transparent. 
We know how many things are like

425
00:23:14,610 --> 00:23:18,200
it's just intransparent versus 
ultra transparent, right? 

426
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,880
And again, if you think that if 
the base layer is transparent, 

427
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,040
anything downstream from a 
transparent base layer is 

428
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,120
conceptually honest and fair and
all these things. 

429
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,320
And anything downstream from 
something that is super 

430
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,000
intransparent, yeah, of course, 
if it can be corrupted, you 

431
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,600
know, if there's a door open for
it to be corrupted, then people 

432
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,960
will corrupt it because we are, 
it's fight flight, you know, we 

433
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,200
are in survival mode. 
So. 

434
00:23:45,540 --> 00:23:47,460
And you see that with your young
children as well. 

435
00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:50,260
I see that too. 
Like it's me first and then the 

436
00:23:50,260 --> 00:23:52,380
rest, of course. 
So if you have a chance to 

437
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:57,340
misuse an intransparent system, 
then obviously that happens, 

438
00:23:57,340 --> 00:23:59,500
right. 
And whether you and I would 

439
00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:02,940
think we would not do it, if we 
are close enough, we would 

440
00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:07,180
probably do it right. 
So that is my understanding of 

441
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:09,340
everything. 
All the problems are downstream 

442
00:24:09,340 --> 00:24:12,180
from the broken money, 
basically. 

443
00:24:12,580 --> 00:24:17,000
Yeah, sorry to interrupt, but 
that is like I want to share, 

444
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,840
you know how, how, how I kind of
paint that, paint that picture. 

445
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,440
Yeah, yeah. 
And I I I guess you're right. 

446
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:32,640
The everything is all downstream
from money if you let's say it's

447
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,040
all start with awareness anyway,
because of course, if you think 

448
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,560
about why, why is it? 
Why are people traveling the 

449
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,720
world and why are they also 
bitcoiners? 

450
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:46,390
If you are aware about who you 
want to be in life and where you

451
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:49,630
are at that point in time, you 
start to ask yourself questions.

452
00:24:49,630 --> 00:24:51,710
So awareness, you raise 
awareness. 

453
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:53,350
You're going to look for 
answers. 

454
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:56,630
And if you're going to look for 
answers, you are probably ending

455
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:59,590
up of you being part of the 
economic machine. 

456
00:24:59,910 --> 00:25:01,830
And that's why you're fed up 
with life. 

457
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:03,830
You know, we had, we had two 
young kids. 

458
00:25:04,030 --> 00:25:07,750
My wife was basically crying in 
the car for hating her work. 

459
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:11,710
I was not hating my work, but it
was a lot. 

460
00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:14,310
It was a lot, and I was making a
lot of money as well. 

461
00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:17,350
But I was not the dad that I 
wanted to be for my daughters. 

462
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:22,510
And I had a vision in my life 
how how I wanted my life to be, 

463
00:25:22,510 --> 00:25:26,150
and it was not the same anymore.
So you start to become aware. 

464
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:28,910
And if you start to become 
aware, you start actually start 

465
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:31,550
asking questions. 
How did I end it up here? 

466
00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:34,110
And then you're going to start 
thinking about your parents, 

467
00:25:34,110 --> 00:25:35,990
right? 
And about your direct 

468
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:39,830
environment and also about 
school and about work. 

469
00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:44,570
And then you start to like. 
Slowly, gradually, then suddenly

470
00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:48,530
figuring out, OK, I'm, I'm just 
a product here. 

471
00:25:48,650 --> 00:25:52,010
I'm the product. 
I'm not being me and unique at 

472
00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:53,890
all. 
I'm just a product like anybody 

473
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:58,690
else. 
And that makes you probably that

474
00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:02,650
brings you to a mindset that you
start questioning that A and B, 

475
00:26:02,730 --> 00:26:06,090
how can I go, how can I escape 
this? 

476
00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:08,530
How can I call it? 
Do you think this is like a 

477
00:26:08,530 --> 00:26:12,090
Western world problem? 
I think the Western world 

478
00:26:12,090 --> 00:26:14,290
problem is it's definitely 
bigger in the West. 

479
00:26:14,370 --> 00:26:20,690
Definitely, like we all live in 
concrete walls, like pretty much

480
00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:25,250
very, very close to each other. 
So a lot of a lot of triggers 

481
00:26:25,570 --> 00:26:28,370
every day, every second of the 
day around you. 

482
00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:33,530
And of course, if you need 
people to be part of the 

483
00:26:33,530 --> 00:26:37,210
economic machine, you need the 
man and the woman to keep it 

484
00:26:37,210 --> 00:26:40,370
going. 
And then of course, family 

485
00:26:41,050 --> 00:26:42,650
becomes a thing of the 
background. 

486
00:26:42,650 --> 00:26:45,690
Whereas in South America, where 
I've traveled, in Asia where 

487
00:26:45,690 --> 00:26:49,410
I've traveled, in Africa where 
we traveled, family is way more 

488
00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:52,370
important cornerstone of 
society. 

489
00:26:52,370 --> 00:26:56,330
Still there, the moms do not 
work a lot, right. 

490
00:26:56,330 --> 00:26:58,170
So it's it's it's different than
here. 

491
00:26:58,170 --> 00:27:01,330
So yes, I would say the problems
are bigger here, but it all 

492
00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:04,290
makes sense if you think out 
loud about it, if you start to 

493
00:27:04,290 --> 00:27:07,890
figure out the incentives, the 
taxation. 

494
00:27:08,370 --> 00:27:11,410
The whole system in general, you
start to understand where all 

495
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:14,290
the narratives come from and why
people do what they do. 

496
00:27:14,410 --> 00:27:17,570
They need to do this in order to
get the incentive and to stay 

497
00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:19,610
alive in the economic machine 
that we are living in. 

498
00:27:20,090 --> 00:27:23,850
So yeah, I do believe that once 
you, like I said it all, start 

499
00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:26,330
with awareness. 
Once you raise it, you start to 

500
00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:30,770
ask more questions and you will 
end up with all the narratives 

501
00:27:30,770 --> 00:27:35,010
created by by the world as it 
is. 

502
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,860
And so, if that's all 
incentivized by money and the 

503
00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:42,940
monetary system, of course you 
end up at Bitcoin, so it makes 

504
00:27:42,940 --> 00:27:47,700
sense that travelers will. 
Travelers are also interested in

505
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:49,820
Bitcoin as well. 
Yeah. 

506
00:27:50,540 --> 00:27:54,860
So how did you first become 
interested in investing finance?

507
00:27:55,820 --> 00:27:58,140
Yeah, etc. 
Of course. 

508
00:27:58,620 --> 00:28:05,930
So I studied psychology I. 
Learned about the principles of 

509
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:08,850
scarcity. 
And therefore I always thought, 

510
00:28:08,890 --> 00:28:11,770
OK, the best investment you can 
make is in yourself. 

511
00:28:11,770 --> 00:28:14,650
You know, like there are 8 
billion people, The only truly 

512
00:28:14,650 --> 00:28:17,250
unique thing, and that's really 
scarce, that's me. 

513
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:22,970
So I was already pretty pretty 
much involved with investing a 

514
00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:27,690
lot in myself, so it didn't take
a lot of time before I ended up 

515
00:28:27,690 --> 00:28:31,670
investing in general. 
And so then me being me, me 

516
00:28:31,670 --> 00:28:35,310
being a human as well, I ended 
up in the shit coins as well. 

517
00:28:35,310 --> 00:28:37,870
I thought it was easy to make 
money with it. 

518
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:43,350
I loved the psychology part of 
the of the cycle, so I thought 

519
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:48,550
it was an interesting digital 
technology revolution kind of 

520
00:28:48,550 --> 00:28:52,190
energy. 
So I ended up over there and. 

521
00:28:54,090 --> 00:28:56,370
That was the same period. 
I guess it was the same period 

522
00:28:56,370 --> 00:28:59,530
that I really ended up ended 
with the with the shit cornery 

523
00:28:59,810 --> 00:29:04,930
and became more interested in 
Bitcoin once COVID came into the

524
00:29:04,930 --> 00:29:07,090
world depending the pandemic 
start. 

525
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:10,850
That was the point in time that 
of course a lot of narratives 

526
00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:15,370
that we are talking about got 
destroyed and I think people 

527
00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:19,810
were aware already. 
I was pretty aware already that 

528
00:29:19,810 --> 00:29:23,530
was the final push that I needed
to, like, raise my awareness. 

529
00:29:24,020 --> 00:29:28,460
Ask questions about what I was 
doing about, hey, we can do this

530
00:29:28,460 --> 00:29:31,820
differently with a family. 
And also if you do this with a 

531
00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:34,500
family and you start traveling 
the world with a lot of money, 

532
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,700
with a lot of capital, you also 
should be doing the right things

533
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:40,100
with the capital while you're 
traveling. 

534
00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:43,900
And so only investing things you
truly understand. 

535
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:47,500
That was an important rule that 
I learned, so I stopped with all

536
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:49,500
the things that I did not 
understand. 

537
00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:53,180
And the only thing that I wanted
to learn is how the monetary 

538
00:29:53,180 --> 00:29:59,220
system worked, so that therefore
I knew if I had to invest it in 

539
00:29:59,660 --> 00:30:04,100
in government bonds, in specific
stocks or in Bitcoin or in 

540
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:06,660
crypto. 
And of course, I learned the 

541
00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:11,180
economic situation was changing.
And to me, it became actually 

542
00:30:11,180 --> 00:30:14,540
clear that I needed to learn 
more about money per se. 

543
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:17,500
And therefore I ended up at 
Bitcoin. 

544
00:30:19,310 --> 00:30:23,030
Nice. 
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I love our 

545
00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:27,230
story is very similar, I think. 
And that's in that sense I 

546
00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:31,830
mentioned in another episode, 
Like I was when I was 30, at a 

547
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:34,030
mortgage and a house, and I was 
working at a bank. 

548
00:30:34,790 --> 00:30:38,710
And I talked to a colleague at 
one point and he told me, like, 

549
00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:40,750
do you know that the money in 
the bank is not yours? 

550
00:30:40,750 --> 00:30:45,390
And I said, what do you mean? 
So then we had a lunch for an 

551
00:30:45,390 --> 00:30:46,950
hour and he told me how it 
worked. 

552
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:49,630
And then I thought, wow, this 
makes absolutely. 

553
00:30:51,070 --> 00:30:54,870
Well, it makes sense in a 
certain or conceptually you know

554
00:30:55,230 --> 00:30:57,950
how it works. 
The fractional reserve banking 

555
00:30:57,950 --> 00:31:03,190
like it it makes some sense. 
But it takes so much like 

556
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:07,950
sovereignty away from that. 
The Buster's the people who put 

557
00:31:07,950 --> 00:31:13,310
the money in the bank that I 
thought, okay, this is just like

558
00:31:13,310 --> 00:31:15,750
I'm doing this, but I don't 
understand it basically. 

559
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:19,390
And that's also when and I think
that ties back to what we talked

560
00:31:19,390 --> 00:31:21,390
about like this, the self 
development path. 

561
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:24,550
I was just thinking like okay, 
I'm an idiot as well, right? 

562
00:31:24,550 --> 00:31:27,310
Like I'm participating in 
something that I have no 

563
00:31:27,870 --> 00:31:30,790
understanding of. 
So I think I should actually try

564
00:31:30,790 --> 00:31:34,430
to understand it before I 
participate or keep 

565
00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:37,230
participating or maybe 
participate more in it, right, 

566
00:31:37,230 --> 00:31:39,870
Like whatever my conclusion 
would be. 

567
00:31:40,420 --> 00:31:43,300
So that's also kind of like one 
of the, the starting points for 

568
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:47,700
me where I was like, OK, I have 
absolutely no clue, but I think 

569
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:50,700
I should know, right? 
Although it's very confronting, 

570
00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:53,900
I think I should, you know, 
investigate this more. 

571
00:31:54,180 --> 00:31:59,100
So what's what is your 
conclusion and like how do or 

572
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:01,420
what is your explanation? 
I'd rather say like how do 

573
00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:04,580
governments control and 
influence the money, Like how 

574
00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:06,580
does that work? 
What's your understanding of 

575
00:32:06,580 --> 00:32:08,500
that? 
Yeah, well. 

576
00:32:09,970 --> 00:32:15,050
Of course, like we we have a few
central authorities, 

577
00:32:15,050 --> 00:32:18,890
institutions that are able to 
create money like you said, like

578
00:32:18,890 --> 00:32:20,650
we have the fractional reserve 
banking. 

579
00:32:21,050 --> 00:32:24,890
So we have commercial banks that
are able indeed when you deposit

580
00:32:24,890 --> 00:32:27,450
like 1000 thousand dollars, 
€1000. 

581
00:32:27,860 --> 00:32:31,340
They're able to like at least 
90% of it to lend it out again. 

582
00:32:31,780 --> 00:32:34,500
And when you lend it out, when 
they lend it out to someone else

583
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:37,020
and they buy a home with it, by 
the way, then of course you need

584
00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:38,860
higher numbers. 
But let's say you lend it out 

585
00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:43,900
like €400,000 to someone. 
This person of course is going 

586
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,220
to buy a house with it. 
And that means that another 

587
00:32:46,220 --> 00:32:52,980
person receives that €400,000 at
their bank account and therefore

588
00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:57,020
that bank can lend it out again,
well 90% of that amount. 

589
00:32:57,390 --> 00:33:00,910
So you get a creation of money 
upon a creation of money upon a 

590
00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:04,910
creation of money, and so a lot 
more money is going into the 

591
00:33:04,910 --> 00:33:07,790
economy. 
Of course I understand that if 

592
00:33:07,790 --> 00:33:12,990
this money is used correctly and
creates more productivity that 

593
00:33:12,990 --> 00:33:18,030
you do have an argument to say 
it has also something good in 

594
00:33:18,030 --> 00:33:20,960
it, right? 
So I I understand that that at 

595
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,700
Keynesian argument I understand 
it why you probably quote UN 

596
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:28,520
quote need inflation to grow. 
But in the end if you talk this 

597
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,960
through, it does not make sense 
because money actually was a 

598
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,840
bottom up process, right. 
And a bottom up process means 

599
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,320
that we wanted money to create 
prosperity. 

600
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:45,480
We the the people, we needed it 
to grow in various ways. 

601
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,520
And if it's a bottom up process,
you have to rethink about it and

602
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,840
you have to think okay, what 
then? 

603
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,640
Make makes a good form of money.
A good form of money makes a the

604
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,760
end user be the one that wins. 
Because I wanted money in order 

605
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,640
to be to make it easier to 
trade, in order to make it 

606
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,960
easier to buy and and in order 
to make in order to save. 

607
00:34:06,570 --> 00:34:10,170
And if you then figure out, 
well, as an end user it's 

608
00:34:10,170 --> 00:34:14,010
probably best if the money that 
I use that I that I can choose 

609
00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:18,250
the money that I want to use 
that's one and and B or two that

610
00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:21,770
it at least is something where I
can store store value in through

611
00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:25,210
time and through space so that I
can spend it whenever and 

612
00:34:25,210 --> 00:34:28,330
wherever I want. 
That's basically because if I if

613
00:34:28,330 --> 00:34:31,409
I sell something to you and you 
give me money and I don't 

614
00:34:31,409 --> 00:34:35,870
necessarily need or want to buy 
something else right now, then I

615
00:34:35,870 --> 00:34:41,389
should be able to save what that
money is worth, that the value 

616
00:34:41,389 --> 00:34:45,750
of that money over time, right? 
But now it dilutes. 

617
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:48,469
Now over time it becomes worth 
less. 

618
00:34:48,469 --> 00:34:53,469
So that does not mean the number
changes, but it buys less, 

619
00:34:53,870 --> 00:34:57,550
right? 
And so that's how, and I don't 

620
00:34:57,590 --> 00:35:02,070
know a lot about, like Kinesian 
and Austrian philosophy, but the

621
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:06,190
Kinesians say that's how the 
economy keeps going because 

622
00:35:06,190 --> 00:35:08,310
people are incentivized to spend
it, right? 

623
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:10,710
And eventually that turns into 
that. 

624
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:14,310
That's their argument for 
continued growth, i.e., 

625
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:22,630
prosperity and their biggest 
argument against what you say, 

626
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:24,190
right? 
Like, OK, now I should be able 

627
00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:28,710
to save it over time in the best
asset in the world, which is 

628
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:31,830
what we think Bitcoin, right? 
Then they say, yeah, OK, but if 

629
00:35:31,830 --> 00:35:35,430
you save it, like, why? 
Why would you spend it right. 

630
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:37,430
Then, like, the economy grinds 
to a halt. 

631
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:40,230
But I think then there's there's
great arguments against that as 

632
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:44,550
well, right? 
Like if my headphones are broken

633
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:50,950
and I need new ones, am I going 
to wait until there's another 

634
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:54,430
price on them, like next week or
the week after or no, I need 

635
00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:57,070
something now, right? 
Or like when you need food, 

636
00:35:57,070 --> 00:36:00,270
you're not going to wait until 
the bread is cheaper next week, 

637
00:36:00,350 --> 00:36:03,470
you know? 
So I think, and what I like, 

638
00:36:03,790 --> 00:36:07,350
this is really my thinking, but 
if someone comes with like such 

639
00:36:07,350 --> 00:36:11,110
a complex argumentation and this
whole fucking story, right? 

640
00:36:11,710 --> 00:36:16,090
And then if you can, if your 
rebuttal can be so simple, then 

641
00:36:16,330 --> 00:36:19,210
in my mind, like the original 
argument is just so flawed. 

642
00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:22,850
Don't know, right? 
Like if you have to talk so much

643
00:36:23,050 --> 00:36:28,490
to make your point, like then 
yeah, you're trying to, yeah, 

644
00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:31,850
then I think your original point
is just not that strong, right? 

645
00:36:31,850 --> 00:36:33,930
Like you have to use all these 
fiddler. 

646
00:36:34,570 --> 00:36:39,050
Words like it's it's even stupid
because there are so many things

647
00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:44,370
that people need and want right 
now that they don't care they. 

648
00:36:45,330 --> 00:36:48,890
Couldn't even care if they want 
to care and to to buy it right 

649
00:36:48,890 --> 00:36:50,210
now. 
Because there are things we 

650
00:36:50,530 --> 00:36:52,810
especially need and want in 
order to stay alive. 

651
00:36:53,130 --> 00:36:55,850
And there are also things that 
people just want to do in their 

652
00:36:55,850 --> 00:36:57,890
lives. 
Like if you know how psychology 

653
00:36:57,890 --> 00:37:02,410
works, then you also quickly 
find out that that Keynesian 

654
00:37:02,410 --> 00:37:07,810
thing is only created. 
That narrative is created 

655
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:11,090
because already everything is 
based on debt. 

656
00:37:11,690 --> 00:37:15,250
And if you if it's based on 
that, then then you indeed need 

657
00:37:15,250 --> 00:37:20,090
people to keep spending faster 
than normally in order to pay 

658
00:37:20,090 --> 00:37:22,450
for stuff that they don't 
actually want and need. 

659
00:37:22,810 --> 00:37:27,170
And now you come to the you get 
to the the foundational stuff 

660
00:37:27,170 --> 00:37:29,650
that we are philosophical stuff 
that we were talking about 

661
00:37:29,650 --> 00:37:33,130
earlier already. 
Why are people so disconnected? 

662
00:37:33,130 --> 00:37:37,530
Why are they so unhappy? 
Because of course, if the like 

663
00:37:37,530 --> 00:37:41,350
everything around them. 
Constantly keeps incentivizing 

664
00:37:41,350 --> 00:37:45,550
not only to spend money, but to 
feel them less whole if they 

665
00:37:45,550 --> 00:37:48,230
don't have it. 
Because that's what marketing 

666
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:50,110
does. 
That's what advertising does. 

667
00:37:50,110 --> 00:37:54,510
That's what propaganda does, is 
you actually feel less whole if 

668
00:37:54,510 --> 00:37:57,110
you're constantly surrounded 
with people. 

669
00:37:57,230 --> 00:38:00,990
Or images or movies or 
advertisements will have more 

670
00:38:01,190 --> 00:38:04,060
than that you have. 
So now you suddenly start to 

671
00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:07,940
think you want something and 
therefore you buy it with money 

672
00:38:07,940 --> 00:38:10,460
that indeed becomes worth less. 
So you already have the 

673
00:38:10,460 --> 00:38:14,220
incentive underneath the money, 
but you have also the incentive 

674
00:38:14,260 --> 00:38:17,780
in the economic machine to keep 
spending for stuff you actually 

675
00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:20,620
don't want. 
Now you bought it. 

676
00:38:20,620 --> 00:38:23,580
You bought that bigger house, 
you bought that more beautiful 

677
00:38:23,580 --> 00:38:25,940
car and all the other stuff and 
shit you don't need. 

678
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:28,500
Now. 
Of course this is how psychology

679
00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:30,420
works. 
Now you are afraid that you 

680
00:38:30,420 --> 00:38:33,610
might lose it one day. 
So now you get anxiety. 

681
00:38:33,650 --> 00:38:36,890
Now you worry about losing your 
job because you might lose that 

682
00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:40,410
big house or that beautiful car 
or all that stuff that you think

683
00:38:40,810 --> 00:38:43,890
actually makes you happy. 
Those expensive dinners? 

684
00:38:44,010 --> 00:38:46,610
No, you don't like the cheap 
ones anymore because you were 

685
00:38:46,610 --> 00:38:48,410
able to afford the expensive 
ones. 

686
00:38:48,690 --> 00:38:52,010
So you create a narrative that 
those expensive dinners are the 

687
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:56,290
things that are make you happy. 
Now of course, now you start to 

688
00:38:56,290 --> 00:39:00,130
do more and more work to keep 
spending for those things, but 

689
00:39:00,130 --> 00:39:02,740
you don't like your work. 
You don't like your life as 

690
00:39:02,740 --> 00:39:05,180
well. 
You can really figure out a way.

691
00:39:05,180 --> 00:39:08,860
Like if you keep going deeper 
into this narrative, you start 

692
00:39:08,860 --> 00:39:13,180
to believe, Damn, this goes so 
much deeper and it's so much 

693
00:39:13,900 --> 00:39:18,700
explanation, or at least parts 
of the explanations why people 

694
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:21,260
are working so damn hard for 
things they actually do not 

695
00:39:21,260 --> 00:39:23,990
like. 
And and if you then start, if 

696
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:26,510
you come back to the money for 
impress people that don't think 

697
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:28,510
about them. 
Exactly, exactly. 

698
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:32,710
Exactly like what do I give what
someone else has or does not 

699
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:35,830
have you. 
If you actually care about 

700
00:39:35,830 --> 00:39:38,470
something like that, if you 
actually feel you are a bigger 

701
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:41,950
person, if you drive your in 
your audio or your BMW or 

702
00:39:41,950 --> 00:39:45,110
whatever and you think less of 
the people next to you that 

703
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:48,870
drive a Toyota or whatever, then
there's something inherently 

704
00:39:48,870 --> 00:39:51,510
wrong in your own self esteem 
already. 

705
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:55,740
And that of course is, is is 
able, you can able to tie this 

706
00:39:55,740 --> 00:39:59,820
back to to the money part. 
So if you go like in short and 

707
00:39:59,820 --> 00:40:02,500
that's the last thing I say 
about this, if you think about 

708
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:06,500
Austrian economics and you make 
money, you create real world 

709
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:10,620
value and you get money in 
return, that's able to store 

710
00:40:10,620 --> 00:40:13,540
wealth through time and space, 
you are calm. 

711
00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:16,740
And now, because you work for 
it, you actually work for it, 

712
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:19,460
you're going to think twice 
before you spend on something 

713
00:40:19,460 --> 00:40:21,990
stupid. 
So you will probably spend it on

714
00:40:21,990 --> 00:40:26,470
something interesting, something
that's going to become worth 

715
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:29,070
more. 
So this is the argument, I 

716
00:40:29,070 --> 00:40:31,990
believe that when we have a good
form of money, people will 

717
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:36,150
definitely invest, but they 
think better and they invest in 

718
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:42,270
better stuff to create a better.
And and people will think about 

719
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:45,150
what is the value of the thing 
I'm creating, right. 

720
00:40:45,150 --> 00:40:47,550
So the things that are being 
bought, the services, the 

721
00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:51,290
products. 
There's going to be way more 

722
00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:58,530
natural competition in upholding
a higher quality, yes of these 

723
00:40:58,530 --> 00:41:02,210
services and products. 
Because the money is fair, 

724
00:41:02,530 --> 00:41:05,530
right? 
Because we are not incentivized.

725
00:41:05,930 --> 00:41:10,330
If you can make cheap money, 
cheap money in the money that we

726
00:41:10,330 --> 00:41:13,690
have now because you can spend 
it fast, like why would you 

727
00:41:14,090 --> 00:41:17,670
invest a lot? 
And have a high quality standard

728
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:23,030
for the product or service that 
you're offering, right? 

729
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:28,830
So I think this is also what 
Safe Dean says about like short 

730
00:41:29,550 --> 00:41:31,830
time preference and long time 
preference, right? 

731
00:41:31,830 --> 00:41:36,030
Like the short time preference 
is okay, I got the money now. 

732
00:41:36,030 --> 00:41:38,790
Now I got to spend it on this 
stupid thing, you know, as you 

733
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:41,110
mentioned and long time 
preferences. 

734
00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:44,310
All right, I did my best. 
I got this money. 

735
00:41:44,310 --> 00:41:47,030
I know I can this energy. 
I know I can save it. 

736
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:51,870
Over time, I'm going to improve 
myself even better because I 

737
00:41:52,030 --> 00:41:54,070
actually get rewarded for my 
input. 

738
00:41:54,070 --> 00:42:01,190
Like what I put in is rewarded 
with something that is a fair 

739
00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:04,470
reward, I almost want to say. 
And now people are more 

740
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:06,310
incentivized because the money 
is. 

741
00:42:07,110 --> 00:42:08,710
Is. 
Yeah, I just say cheap. 

742
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:10,790
I don't know if that's the right
word, but they are incentivized 

743
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:12,470
to just do quick wins and 
whatever. 

744
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:16,030
Like I see these YouTube ad 
roles like of these these people

745
00:42:16,030 --> 00:42:19,870
who say like, oh, I made $30,000
with this PDF that I made with 

746
00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:23,190
Chet GPT and you can do it too, 
you know, like shit like that. 

747
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:27,390
Like there's no value in that. 
I mean, well, I don't know if 

748
00:42:27,390 --> 00:42:30,670
you now live in the new house. 
I live in an older house, like I

749
00:42:30,670 --> 00:42:35,080
have woodwork here. 
That you don't see anymore, 

750
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,720
right? 
Like someone made a door and I 

751
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,640
thought, I'm gonna make this 
even nicer like with these Nice.

752
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,440
Yeah, yeah. 
Just I don't know, I don't have 

753
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,240
to say what the English word is,
but like nice decoration, like 

754
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:51,600
they spent more time on it. 
It's not like a 2 by 4 type of 

755
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,840
door frame painted white, 
whatever. 

756
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,740
And. 
That's kind of my thought around

757
00:42:58,740 --> 00:43:00,980
this, right? 
Like if you can, if you can have

758
00:43:00,980 --> 00:43:04,580
a long time preference, you can 
also actually do what you like 

759
00:43:04,580 --> 00:43:09,820
and become really good at that 
and find value in just doing 

760
00:43:09,820 --> 00:43:12,180
that thing. 
Being grateful that other people

761
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:14,340
appreciate what you make and 
like. 

762
00:43:14,860 --> 00:43:18,540
For me that like spiritually 
that would help also a lot of 

763
00:43:18,540 --> 00:43:22,980
people definitely. 
I think we would be happier 100%

764
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:29,360
and 2nd to if if we all are able
to lower our time preference and

765
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,480
think about long term more, it 
will become easier and you will 

766
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,880
become more at ease as well with
who you are and you have more 

767
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,120
time to figure out what you are,
who you are and what you want 

768
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,040
and with regard to what you can.
Add in the world. 

769
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,760
Also, exactly what is your yeah?
Yeah, what's your added value 

770
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,120
here? 
Yeah, and you understand that 

771
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,040
added value doesn't come from 
nowhere. 

772
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,040
You actually have to work sweat 
equity, right? 

773
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,840
And so you will not quit within 
a year because you realize 

774
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,320
something. 
Goodwill only come in 1234, 

775
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,120
perhaps even longer. 
So you need to keep doing it, 

776
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,800
keep studying, keep improving, 
keep networking, etc. 

777
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:13,140
And with regard to the 
centralization and the banking 

778
00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:17,020
system and centralization of 
power, like you, you were 

779
00:44:17,020 --> 00:44:19,260
already talking about like an 
interesting argument that you 

780
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:22,220
can say one thing and you 
already have dismissed actually 

781
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:26,660
a whole theory, right? 
It's also like the one that also

782
00:44:26,660 --> 00:44:32,660
impresses me is is like how is 
it fair that I have to work for 

783
00:44:32,660 --> 00:44:36,260
money that someone else can just
print or create out of thin air?

784
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:40,500
Like in what world is that fair?
And if you. 

785
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:42,180
Wait, wait. 
Yeah. 

786
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:49,420
So just even without the fair 
part, like, why do people work 

787
00:44:49,420 --> 00:44:52,460
for money that others can just 
print just that statement, 

788
00:44:52,460 --> 00:44:52,860
right? 
Yeah. 

789
00:44:55,180 --> 00:44:59,260
Why is it not made clear to us 
why that is? 

790
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:02,420
Why don't we? 
The people who do the work? 

791
00:45:02,420 --> 00:45:04,180
Why don't we understand it? 
Right. 

792
00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:07,990
And just that, I think. 
It's nice also for the people 

793
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:11,590
listening, like, think about 
like, if that triggers you, if 

794
00:45:11,590 --> 00:45:15,350
you think like, well, I don't 
really care, then OK, you know, 

795
00:45:15,350 --> 00:45:17,110
that's fine. 
Like there's no really better, 

796
00:45:17,110 --> 00:45:20,350
better or good in that sense. 
But if if there's even a remote 

797
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:23,750
remotely somewhere I trigger 
like, yeah, that that does 

798
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:26,790
indeed sound a bit strange. 
You know, like that that should 

799
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:29,310
be the threat that you should, 
like, pull on, right? 

800
00:45:29,470 --> 00:45:31,270
Yeah. 
What you will find is not that 

801
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:33,390
fun, right. 
But, but. 

802
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:36,420
But. 
I 100% agree like just that 

803
00:45:36,420 --> 00:45:43,380
argument. 
It sounds so illogical that even

804
00:45:43,420 --> 00:45:47,260
even if it would be a good 
thing, explain it to the people.

805
00:45:47,540 --> 00:45:51,020
Educate people right. 
Like why do why do we do this? 

806
00:45:51,020 --> 00:45:54,100
Why does it work like this? 
And I think, well you and I went

807
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:55,540
to school in the same time, 
right? 

808
00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:57,660
And I think currently like 
nothing has changed. 

809
00:45:57,660 --> 00:46:01,220
But we never learned about this.
Never you never You never learn 

810
00:46:01,220 --> 00:46:04,890
about this and. 
Why don't you learn about it? 

811
00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:07,530
About it? 
Because some people profit from 

812
00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:12,330
it and others do not, right? 
And that's not even in a 

813
00:46:12,330 --> 00:46:14,370
malicious way. 
It's just a natural way what we 

814
00:46:14,370 --> 00:46:17,290
talked about before. 
Like if something can, if a 

815
00:46:17,290 --> 00:46:20,090
system, a man made system. 
By the way, I think it's always 

816
00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:22,050
funny. 
Sorry, this is sidetrack. 

817
00:46:22,050 --> 00:46:28,610
But when I see Lagarde of you 
know, the EU or what's her name,

818
00:46:28,610 --> 00:46:31,130
sorry, the. 
The ECB, when she says, yeah, 

819
00:46:31,130 --> 00:46:34,290
inflation came from nowhere and 
we are trying to tame this 

820
00:46:34,290 --> 00:46:37,810
monster. 
Like these words for me are so 

821
00:46:37,810 --> 00:46:40,130
ridiculous because I think this 
is a man made system. 

822
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:42,650
This is not a natural system. 
This is a man made system, 

823
00:46:42,650 --> 00:46:44,610
right. 
So if something is a man made 

824
00:46:44,610 --> 00:46:48,570
system, how can you say, oh, I'm
so overwhelmed by the 

825
00:46:48,570 --> 00:46:50,770
consequences of this man made 
system. 

826
00:46:50,770 --> 00:46:53,930
You know, we are trying to 
battle the inflation beast like 

827
00:46:53,930 --> 00:46:57,690
it's just it's it's so unfair to
even say that, right? 

828
00:46:57,690 --> 00:47:01,220
Like it's so. 
Not taking your responsibility. 

829
00:47:01,460 --> 00:47:03,620
She didn't come up with this 
system, That's fine. 

830
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:11,540
But you are still partially in 
charge at least of your part in 

831
00:47:11,540 --> 00:47:14,900
the system. 
So yeah, I find that so 

832
00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:18,940
interesting just listening to 
those words where people like 

833
00:47:18,940 --> 00:47:23,900
put that responsibility outside 
of themselves or outside of the 

834
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:28,140
system or you know, because if 
you ask one question about. 

835
00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:31,420
You know how it ties in with the
system then their entire 

836
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:33,860
argumentation does kind of falls
apart. 

837
00:47:34,220 --> 00:47:35,340
Yeah. 
And I think everyone that 

838
00:47:35,340 --> 00:47:39,500
listens is listening right now. 
Like one thing is it should be 

839
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:43,420
aware as well that we probably 
you who are listening as well, 

840
00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:46,580
we are part of that system as 
well and we are also privileged,

841
00:47:46,580 --> 00:47:48,340
right. 
That's important to realize. 

842
00:47:48,340 --> 00:47:50,460
Like I agree because that's what
a printer does. 

843
00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:53,140
Like like you said in the 
beginning, the closer you are to

844
00:47:53,140 --> 00:47:55,940
this money printer, the more 
access you have to cheap money 

845
00:47:55,940 --> 00:47:58,700
into capital. 
But to with cheap money, I don't

846
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:02,420
mean quote UN quote bad money. 
I mean we have a cheap way to 

847
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:05,340
find the strongest money that 
there is, the dollars and the 

848
00:48:05,340 --> 00:48:07,420
EUR. 
And I've traveled the world 

849
00:48:07,420 --> 00:48:12,100
right, So I've seen all those 
broken currencies everywhere and

850
00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:16,180
those people do not have access 
to the dollar easily to a cheap 

851
00:48:16,180 --> 00:48:20,980
dollar or to a cheap euro. 
So they have less availability, 

852
00:48:20,980 --> 00:48:23,420
less access to all this, this 
capital. 

853
00:48:23,420 --> 00:48:25,260
And that's what the system also 
does. 

854
00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:30,030
It has the energy that 
incentivizes centralization of 

855
00:48:30,030 --> 00:48:33,750
power more and more and more. 
And it's simply because they can

856
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:38,150
create money for the ones that 
they like and they don't create 

857
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:40,110
money for the ones they don't 
like. 

858
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:46,270
Therefore you see a constantly 
growing wealth inequality not 

859
00:48:46,270 --> 00:48:50,090
only within borders but also 
within nations and therefore 

860
00:48:50,330 --> 00:48:52,250
you. 
It's it's difficult for other 

861
00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:55,170
countries or also for people who
are not like close to the money 

862
00:48:55,170 --> 00:48:59,450
printer to be themselves, to 
become that person they really 

863
00:48:59,450 --> 00:49:01,970
want to be, to also live up to 
their dreams. 

864
00:49:02,170 --> 00:49:06,210
It it definitely is a lot more 
difficult for 99% of the world 

865
00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:08,890
than to us. 
And of course you can think 

866
00:49:08,890 --> 00:49:10,730
okay. 
Well, that's my luck of course, 

867
00:49:10,850 --> 00:49:13,330
but you can also think about 
okay. 

868
00:49:13,410 --> 00:49:17,560
Why is this not transparent? 
And that's why we keep ending up

869
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,600
at the transparency part. 
You were just mentioning why? 

870
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,080
If it's if it's a good thing, 
fine. 

871
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,200
If you think we have to be ruled
by this financial system, that's

872
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,000
OK. 
But if I'm then in the 

873
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,560
university or at school, teach 
me why, then teach me why. 

874
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,360
And be honest about it, because 
then you can make the argument 

875
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,640
that it's actually a better 
system, for example, than 

876
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,600
Bitcoin. 
But now they just, how do you 

877
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,150
say rip it on the rub it, rub it
under the carpet and they don't 

878
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:48,790
talk about it? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

879
00:49:48,990 --> 00:49:52,510
That's a translation. 
They just ignore it basically. 

880
00:49:52,510 --> 00:49:54,870
Yeah, right. 
It's just not there. 

881
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:58,550
I agree. 
But it's also not there, I 

882
00:49:58,550 --> 00:50:04,670
think, because most people don't
have or take the time to 

883
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:10,030
actually try to understand it 
and research and what we talked 

884
00:50:10,030 --> 00:50:12,950
about like challenge themselves 
so. 

885
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:15,440
Yeah, I think it's just hard, 
but I think it's a really good 

886
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:16,720
point what you say about 
privilege. 

887
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:21,720
Like even we are closer to the 
money printer than someone in 

888
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:25,120
South Africa or Lebanon or 
whatever, right. 

889
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:31,880
So we 100% have more benefits 
from yeah being close and in a 

890
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,760
very rich country and being 
close to the to the your own 

891
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,440
this case, right. 
So I think that's a fair point. 

892
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:43,000
I also kind of see it and that's
what I experienced also when. 

893
00:50:43,570 --> 00:50:46,370
I talk with people about Bitcoin
when I tell them, like, OK, 

894
00:50:46,530 --> 00:50:50,290
yeah, I really think you should 
study this or buy Bitcoin or 

895
00:50:50,290 --> 00:50:51,930
whatever. 
Like, I've sent these text 

896
00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:54,770
messages to my friends in caps 
at 5K. 

897
00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:57,410
You buy one fucking Bitcoin 
right now. 

898
00:50:57,410 --> 00:50:58,330
Please. 
I love you. 

899
00:50:58,330 --> 00:51:01,200
Please. 
And it's not. 

900
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,600
It's not even because I have 
Bitcoin and enterprise goes up. 

901
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,920
Like, I feel it's a really 
altruistic thing. 

902
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,800
Like I love these people. 
I don't want to show them and 

903
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,040
tell them and help them, right. 
So I also think back to your 

904
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,560
privilege part, like the other 
side of that, like doing this 

905
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,160
podcast or what do you do with 
your company? 

906
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,050
Like it's just. 
I think we think we are good 

907
00:51:25,050 --> 00:51:27,410
already. 
So we are now trying to help and

908
00:51:27,410 --> 00:51:29,850
educate others. 
You know, like we already see 

909
00:51:29,850 --> 00:51:33,130
it, but but we want others to 
see it as well. 

910
00:51:33,130 --> 00:51:37,570
And yeah, I can honestly say 
that for me that that is not 

911
00:51:37,570 --> 00:51:41,570
about the number go up thing. 
That's more about you know get 

912
00:51:41,570 --> 00:51:45,690
out of the other thing. 
That is what motivates me, 

913
00:51:45,690 --> 00:51:49,930
right. 
So I think that is also a nice 

914
00:51:50,050 --> 00:51:54,180
realization. 
But also I think a good thing 

915
00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:58,380
also to say and share that, 
yeah, I sometimes talk to people

916
00:51:58,380 --> 00:52:00,140
and they say, well you only tell
me because you want the number 

917
00:52:00,140 --> 00:52:03,260
go up and then I think that's 
just your that's projection. 

918
00:52:03,260 --> 00:52:04,140
That's you. 
Yeah. 

919
00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:07,220
That's your projection, right? 
That's you talking. 

920
00:52:07,220 --> 00:52:09,420
I know it's not fun what? 
I'm sharing you. 

921
00:52:09,660 --> 00:52:13,020
Duh. 
I went through this as well. 

922
00:52:14,340 --> 00:52:16,620
But yeah, I really think I'm 
coming from. 

923
00:52:17,790 --> 00:52:20,830
Yeah, like an altruistic 
motivation here. 

924
00:52:21,390 --> 00:52:23,510
Also because I realized that I 
can actually do it. 

925
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:28,710
Well, it's 11 AM on the Tuesday 
and we are recording this 

926
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:33,670
podcast, so that is hopefully 
our contribution. 

927
00:52:34,180 --> 00:52:36,500
Because we were already lucky, 
you know? 

928
00:52:36,540 --> 00:52:38,460
Yeah, I do realize I'm 
privileged. 

929
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:42,180
And I do realize I have the 
ability to help others either 

930
00:52:42,180 --> 00:52:45,220
with the podcast or with the 
company, or with just simply 

931
00:52:45,220 --> 00:52:47,660
helping people sharing 
information and insights. 

932
00:52:48,020 --> 00:52:50,700
I fully agree it's altruistic 
with me. 

933
00:52:50,700 --> 00:52:53,860
Also, of course they believe you
want to pump your bags. 

934
00:52:53,860 --> 00:52:58,300
But I do not believe that if I 
orange bill like 100 people or 

935
00:52:58,300 --> 00:53:02,120
200 or 500 that I actually pump 
my bags, right? 

936
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,440
There's nothing happening if I 
will do that. 

937
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:09,360
So that's not my motivation. 
The motivation is like I, I I 

938
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:16,280
honestly feel that I this, this 
I I want a more honest system. 

939
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,560
Even if that means that the 
Netherlands where we live, will 

940
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,720
be less rich If if it means that
actually. 

941
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:27,040
And if it's going to be more 
honest, which means everyone 

942
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:31,200
that actually produces real 
world value, that person wins. 

943
00:53:31,620 --> 00:53:34,620
That's what I think is 
capitalism, the one that 

944
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:37,140
produces real world value to 
another. 

945
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:42,140
That person is allowed to win, 
and I want people to win as 

946
00:53:42,140 --> 00:53:44,100
well. 
And if they are winning, save 

947
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:47,220
that value in something that 
stores it in a right manner. 

948
00:53:47,460 --> 00:53:52,580
So yeah, we we need to figure 
out a way to make sure that 

949
00:53:52,580 --> 00:53:57,180
people don't feel that that 
anger or anxiety and they don't 

950
00:53:57,180 --> 00:54:00,620
project their own fears and 
their own selfish selfishness 

951
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,000
unto us when we are sharing that
information. 

952
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,520
But it will be a long journey 
because I am thinking about this

953
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:10,320
out loud. 
If someone tells to me like your

954
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,400
mom is corrupt and I know my mom
for a very long time, I don't 

955
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,880
like it right. 
I don't like it. 

956
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,160
And I don't believe it. 
I don't believe because I know 

957
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,440
my mom better than this person, 
I would say. 

958
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,960
And even if they show me 
pictures, I say those pictures 

959
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,910
safe, sorry, are fake. 
The same is true, I guess a 

960
00:54:26,910 --> 00:54:29,630
little bit for money. 
If you've if you were able to 

961
00:54:29,630 --> 00:54:34,030
trust your government for 
20304050 years plus always they 

962
00:54:34,030 --> 00:54:37,510
did the right thing and the 
money was, quote UN quote, good 

963
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:39,510
enough because it was all on the
background. 

964
00:54:39,710 --> 00:54:41,470
All that inflation was on the 
background. 

965
00:54:42,750 --> 00:54:46,030
You weren't all at schools. 
Nobody shared information about 

966
00:54:46,030 --> 00:54:47,970
it. 
And then suddenly when you're 50

967
00:54:47,970 --> 00:54:51,170
years old, you hear that the 
money you have been using and 

968
00:54:51,170 --> 00:54:55,930
are using is corrupt or sorry. 
That word is not that good. 

969
00:54:56,490 --> 00:54:58,170
Then of course you say no. 
What? 

970
00:54:58,170 --> 00:54:59,850
Are you talking here? 
Let's say inferior. 

971
00:55:00,650 --> 00:55:03,450
And you oh, you are a Bitcoin 
maxi or you're only about 

972
00:55:03,450 --> 00:55:06,730
pumping your bags. 
I understand that respond very 

973
00:55:06,730 --> 00:55:10,530
well. 
So it will take some time and I 

974
00:55:10,530 --> 00:55:14,900
think we as long as we keep 
pushing the right questions and 

975
00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:18,460
on the right buttons, we will be
able to show them the difference

976
00:55:18,460 --> 00:55:22,660
between this transparent system 
and this not transparent system.

977
00:55:23,460 --> 00:55:26,420
Yeah. 
And I think we kind of touched 

978
00:55:26,420 --> 00:55:29,300
upon this already, but I also 
wanted to ask, like, what does 

979
00:55:29,300 --> 00:55:32,860
Bitcoin say about the concept of
trust in our society? 

980
00:55:32,860 --> 00:55:36,020
Like I think, I think we talked 
about this in a sense that well,

981
00:55:36,020 --> 00:55:38,660
this projection or what you just
mentioned, right, like just the 

982
00:55:38,660 --> 00:55:42,540
response of people, but also 
yeah. 

983
00:55:43,630 --> 00:55:45,950
And I'm thinking why I just 
mentioned this whole thing about

984
00:55:45,950 --> 00:55:51,070
being altruistic just now. 
Like I I almost find it sad that

985
00:55:51,070 --> 00:55:53,510
I have to explain that. 
Yeah, right. 

986
00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:56,230
Yeah, maybe you shouldn't. 
Maybe you shouldn't. 

987
00:55:56,230 --> 00:56:00,670
Maybe you just like like next 
time when someone believes it, 

988
00:56:00,670 --> 00:56:05,350
like, I just let it slide 
because I come to this point, I 

989
00:56:05,350 --> 00:56:08,870
truly don't care. 
I truly don't care anymore what 

990
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:11,840
people think of me. 
So of course there are still 

991
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,240
moments that I'm a little bit 
more weak or that I'm weaker and

992
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,920
or that someone makes an 
impression on me and I want to 

993
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,520
be make him or her impressed as 
well about me. 

994
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:27,400
That I I I think about it a 
little bit more but in general I

995
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,280
I, I, I begin to lose that 
feeling that I want to impress 

996
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,880
other people. 
So if they actually believe that

997
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,280
I'm not doing this from the 
right spot, OK, you know, leave 

998
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,480
it. 
I don't have time anymore for 

999
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,920
those people. 
And I don't want to convince 

1000
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:44,360
people. 
I just want to help people that 

1001
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,480
want to be helped. 
So maybe next time, and I say to

1002
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,400
myself as well, that's why I'm 
thinking out loud. 

1003
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,760
Next time when people gives me 
that feeling that I'm doing it 

1004
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:59,520
for myself or to make money or 
whatever, okay, fine, leave it. 

1005
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,120
You're not for me. 
I'm not for you. 

1006
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,800
Next. 
And yeah, you shouldn't be able 

1007
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,000
to tell that you come from a 
good place if you know for 

1008
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,480
yourself. 
I come from a good place. 

1009
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,120
Yeah, that you are. 
Exactly, exactly. 

1010
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,640
Yeah, I agree. 
So what? 

1011
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,600
What was the belief that made 
you not get into Bitcoin when 

1012
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,400
you first encountered it? 
Like, what was holding you back?

1013
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,240
Well, the first time when 
someone was sharing it with me, 

1014
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:29,840
it was 2016 and I guess Ethereum
came around in 2017 and people 

1015
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,960
were making money with it like 
in a very fast manner. 

1016
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,520
And I was always raised that 
that's impossible, right? 

1017
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,000
That's impossible. 
So what goes up quickly must 

1018
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,120
come down quickly as well. 
It probably is a scam. 

1019
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,840
So that was the reason why I 
just ignored it for a very, very

1020
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:52,690
long time until I met a 
spiritual spiritual teacher and 

1021
00:57:52,690 --> 00:57:56,930
he made me aware of it. 
However, he made me also aware 

1022
00:57:56,930 --> 00:58:01,450
of crypto as a as a beautiful 
part of the growing society. 

1023
00:58:01,450 --> 00:58:04,730
So I had to unlearn that as 
well. 

1024
00:58:04,850 --> 00:58:07,930
But the beginning phase was just
me thinking, well, this can be 

1025
00:58:07,930 --> 00:58:10,970
real, it's Internet money, this 
can be real. 

1026
00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:16,450
And I also wasn't aware of the 
global financial system yet. 

1027
00:58:16,490 --> 00:58:19,530
Enough to understand inflation 
enough. 

1028
00:58:19,770 --> 00:58:23,910
So I did not believe that 
something with a maximum supply 

1029
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:27,070
would be a better solution for 
something that's not even a 

1030
00:58:27,070 --> 00:58:30,190
problem, because that was what I
believe in 2017. 

1031
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:33,230
There we don't need a solution 
because it's not a problem, 

1032
00:58:33,310 --> 00:58:36,430
because I was not that good 
informed about what happened in 

1033
00:58:36,430 --> 00:58:40,670
2008 and 2009 yet. 
Do you also think that's the 

1034
00:58:40,670 --> 00:58:44,030
main thing that people need to 
unlearn before they can 

1035
00:58:44,030 --> 00:58:47,230
understand Bitcoin? 
I would say that, and that's why

1036
00:58:47,230 --> 00:58:51,210
I post relentlessly, 
relentlessly about the financial

1037
00:58:51,210 --> 00:58:54,610
system in general, not about 
Bitcoin, about inflation, and 

1038
00:58:54,610 --> 00:58:58,810
about how this is a problem 
already and could become a way 

1039
00:58:58,810 --> 00:59:01,890
bigger problem for almost all 
countries on earth. 

1040
00:59:02,170 --> 00:59:05,690
So yes, I really believe that if
you truly understand what 

1041
00:59:05,690 --> 00:59:10,370
inflation is and a little bit 
how the system works, that you 

1042
00:59:10,370 --> 00:59:13,570
do believe there needs to be a 
solution to this. 

1043
00:59:14,210 --> 00:59:18,010
Just to solve the fact that 
people cannot save their wealth.

1044
00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:22,220
Just to solve the fact that 
people do not need to spend 

1045
00:59:22,220 --> 00:59:26,020
their money right away in order 
to prevent it from losing value 

1046
00:59:26,020 --> 00:59:29,980
only a year after. 
Yes, I do believe, because then 

1047
00:59:29,980 --> 00:59:35,180
you can start by dribbling down 
to society and why we are all 

1048
00:59:35,180 --> 00:59:37,940
buying things and working for 
things you actually do not need,

1049
00:59:37,940 --> 00:59:40,260
like or love. 
Yeah, yeah, I do. 

1050
00:59:40,380 --> 00:59:42,580
I do think that. 
Yeah, you. 

1051
00:59:46,260 --> 00:59:54,380
Yeah, That's a good question. 
I first thought I have is like 

1052
00:59:54,380 --> 00:59:59,340
you need to actually accept that
you don't know everything and 

1053
01:00:00,380 --> 01:00:04,340
that what you think you know is 
just taught to you. 

1054
01:00:04,420 --> 01:00:06,580
I think it's also easier 
actually to realize this when 

1055
01:00:06,580 --> 01:00:12,860
you have children because, well,
at least for me, like I. 

1056
01:00:15,010 --> 01:00:18,010
I once had this thing he was 
playing here on the on the 

1057
01:00:18,010 --> 01:00:21,650
carpet and he did something and 
I I don't know I kind of snapped

1058
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:24,450
or I said something and he 
totally ignored me. 

1059
01:00:24,450 --> 01:00:27,170
But then I thought them, this 
sounds like my mother. 

1060
01:00:29,850 --> 01:00:34,090
And so I realized that, you 
know, I think it's just a funny 

1061
01:00:34,090 --> 01:00:39,090
example, but more like, yeah, 
how you are is also how, yeah, 

1062
01:00:39,090 --> 01:00:44,150
you were taught to be from 
anything that you consumed, 

1063
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:47,870
whether it's from your parents 
or your friends or stuff you 

1064
01:00:47,870 --> 01:00:49,750
watched. 
Or like when we were younger, we

1065
01:00:49,750 --> 01:00:51,070
were on the Internet all the 
time. 

1066
01:00:51,070 --> 01:00:55,870
You know, like it's you, you 
shape yourself unconsciously in 

1067
01:00:55,870 --> 01:01:00,230
a certain way. 
And I'm also thinking, of 

1068
01:01:00,230 --> 01:01:02,630
course, this, this podcast is 
called Bitcoin for millennials. 

1069
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:07,500
You know, they are a bit older. 
I'm also thinking like, and I 

1070
01:01:07,940 --> 01:01:12,580
cannot speak for people who are 
like 2567, but I think it's just

1071
01:01:12,580 --> 01:01:17,940
harder to have this kind of like
internal conversation or 

1072
01:01:17,940 --> 01:01:20,900
challenge, you know, like how 
are my programs, you know? 

1073
01:01:20,900 --> 01:01:23,940
Again, not in a bad way. 
I think when I say that 

1074
01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:26,330
sometimes people could think 
like, oh, that you're 

1075
01:01:26,330 --> 01:01:27,210
programmed. 
Or you're. 

1076
01:01:27,770 --> 01:01:28,930
Yeah. 
Well, you are. 

1077
01:01:28,930 --> 01:01:29,650
It is. 
You are. 

1078
01:01:30,010 --> 01:01:31,490
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1079
01:01:31,490 --> 01:01:32,970
Those are the words. 
Like, I cannot change it. 

1080
01:01:32,970 --> 01:01:37,570
Like, I really think and I've 
experienced that children are so

1081
01:01:37,570 --> 01:01:41,850
pure. 
They are so open and honest and 

1082
01:01:41,850 --> 01:01:45,410
really connected to their self. 
Right. 

1083
01:01:45,450 --> 01:01:49,650
And yeah, we mess them up. 
Yeah, we do our best, but we do 

1084
01:01:49,650 --> 01:01:52,600
mess them up and they're gonna 
mess themselves up because 

1085
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,080
they're going to make narratives
in their own head just like we 

1086
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:56,720
did. 
Just like everyone does, right? 

1087
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:01,640
And at one point, and 
personally, I'm definitely not 

1088
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,240
there fully, but I'm working on 
it. 

1089
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,160
Like, OK, what do I actually 
want to adopt? 

1090
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,640
What do I want to keep? 
What do I want to discharge? 

1091
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,560
You know, like what do I want to
throw away from my system? 

1092
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:18,440
And my like the term software in
that sense like how you are 

1093
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:23,920
programmed, you know, and I I 
think to start is understanding 

1094
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,880
that you don't know everything 
that you are actually 

1095
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,800
programmed. 
And also yeah, maybe have even 

1096
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,440
one thing of which you are like,
yeah, I just don't want, I don't

1097
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,440
want to be like that anymore. 
Like that's just something that 

1098
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:39,520
I yeah, why is that part of me? 
Like I don't want that anymore. 

1099
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,600
And that's I think where you 
start to kind of learn that 

1100
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,720
process, like understanding that
you are a certain way accepting 

1101
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,370
that you cannot change it like 
what that is, but also 

1102
01:02:51,370 --> 01:02:55,130
understanding that you can 
exchange it basically for 

1103
01:02:55,450 --> 01:02:58,170
something else. 
And once you go through that 

1104
01:02:59,530 --> 01:03:04,170
with two or three things, then I
think it becomes easier to be 

1105
01:03:04,170 --> 01:03:08,850
open for, yeah, other 
information that is challenging,

1106
01:03:09,250 --> 01:03:14,010
you know, however you think you 
are or few or you know, however 

1107
01:03:14,010 --> 01:03:16,770
you want to define that. 
So I think, I think that's the 

1108
01:03:16,770 --> 01:03:19,010
start. 
It's not necessarily about a 

1109
01:03:19,010 --> 01:03:22,010
certain type of subject you need
to unlearn, but it's more about,

1110
01:03:22,890 --> 01:03:24,650
yeah, really, it starts with 
yourself. 

1111
01:03:24,930 --> 01:03:27,970
Yeah, well, to add to that, like
I think we should be aware, all,

1112
01:03:27,970 --> 01:03:31,450
all of us should be aware. 
So this is for us as well. 

1113
01:03:32,010 --> 01:03:34,570
People in general don't like 
change, right? 

1114
01:03:34,770 --> 01:03:37,530
And there's a reason for it 
because it's way more easier to 

1115
01:03:37,530 --> 01:03:40,530
not change. 
So all if you if you learn how 

1116
01:03:40,530 --> 01:03:43,130
the connections in your brain 
work and once those connections 

1117
01:03:43,130 --> 01:03:45,250
are there, those are the 
shortcuts. 

1118
01:03:45,690 --> 01:03:48,890
And the shortcuts of course 
creates this habitual behavior 

1119
01:03:49,210 --> 01:03:52,250
and we don't like to change it 
because it takes effort, energy,

1120
01:03:52,250 --> 01:03:56,810
time to to reconnect various 
part of our brains to create 

1121
01:03:56,810 --> 01:04:00,290
different behavior or to create 
different theories or to create 

1122
01:04:00,290 --> 01:04:04,690
different identity, yada yada. 
So thinking about that and think

1123
01:04:04,690 --> 01:04:07,650
about what you just said. 
Yes, you have to start with 

1124
01:04:07,650 --> 01:04:11,800
yourself and yourself only. 
Then become aware probably but 

1125
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:15,040
the fact that you two are a 
human being, you two are 

1126
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,680
programmed, you two don't like 
change. 

1127
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:23,880
And if you are able to omit 
that, then that's a battle like 

1128
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:25,960
how you describe it. 
It sounds like a battle. 

1129
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:31,240
Yeah, but it sort of is because 
your subconscious thought 

1130
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,470
patterns. 
And all the the connections, 

1131
01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:37,150
they are all automatically 
created, right? 

1132
01:04:37,310 --> 01:04:41,870
So it's not you doing this on 
purpose, it's like it's it's it 

1133
01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:46,830
overcomes you, it just happens 
And you create automatically all

1134
01:04:46,830 --> 01:04:49,990
those connections that you don't
even want to create because they

1135
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:53,470
are not helpful. 
They're not beneficial to your 

1136
01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:57,990
end goal of being happy. 
So therefore I was thinking 

1137
01:04:57,990 --> 01:05:01,090
about that like. 
The inflation part and the 

1138
01:05:01,090 --> 01:05:04,770
financial system part, you 
actually need some kind of 

1139
01:05:04,770 --> 01:05:07,730
necessity, some kind of red 
lights. 

1140
01:05:08,610 --> 01:05:12,130
Oh my God, I need to change. 
So I fully agree with what you 

1141
01:05:12,130 --> 01:05:14,450
say. 
You only want to change if you 

1142
01:05:14,450 --> 01:05:17,730
go within and you feel what's 
up, because then you feel 

1143
01:05:17,730 --> 01:05:19,530
something that's not making you 
happy. 

1144
01:05:19,530 --> 01:05:22,170
And that's probably the energy 
you need to change. 

1145
01:05:22,610 --> 01:05:24,850
And I guess the same holds true 
a little bit for. 

1146
01:05:26,310 --> 01:05:29,990
Diving deeper into Bitcoin, 
being more open minded to study 

1147
01:05:29,990 --> 01:05:34,710
it or to buy it and to transact 
with it, you do need to be aware

1148
01:05:35,030 --> 01:05:39,750
of what kind of problems it 
solves or the necessity we have 

1149
01:05:39,790 --> 01:05:42,870
in the world right now. 
And therefore, I really believe 

1150
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:45,910
that if we keep sharing all 
those insights and information, 

1151
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:52,070
more and more people 
coincidentally will be hearing 

1152
01:05:52,070 --> 01:05:55,830
that, listening to that, reading
that exactly at the right time. 

1153
01:05:56,310 --> 01:05:59,990
Yes, that's it. 
Yes, Now I get it and now I see 

1154
01:05:59,990 --> 01:06:03,670
why I have to study it. 
Prior to this, I did not 

1155
01:06:03,670 --> 01:06:07,390
understand it and now I do. 
So I I guess that's that's I 

1156
01:06:07,390 --> 01:06:12,950
feel what my role is going to be
because I I also see and then 

1157
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:15,430
I'm done. 
I also see that people don't 

1158
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:19,710
particularly like it to go 
within like actually meditate or

1159
01:06:19,950 --> 01:06:22,190
sit still on the chair and be 
with yourself. 

1160
01:06:22,590 --> 01:06:25,150
Most people don't like it 
because it's like the naked 

1161
01:06:25,150 --> 01:06:26,290
truth. 
Right. 

1162
01:06:26,410 --> 01:06:30,490
So also to expect that from 
people is also probably a long 

1163
01:06:30,490 --> 01:06:33,850
road ahead I guess. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1164
01:06:33,850 --> 01:06:38,730
Yeah. 
What really helped me is more 

1165
01:06:38,730 --> 01:06:43,370
like a rational thing to really 
believe that short term pain 

1166
01:06:43,370 --> 01:06:49,010
over long term gains, that 
everything that gives you 

1167
01:06:49,010 --> 01:06:53,050
resistance, everything that 
gives you well your subconscious

1168
01:06:53,050 --> 01:06:56,170
a signal to say like no, no, 
don't, don't do that. 

1169
01:06:57,250 --> 01:06:59,370
It's actually the thing that you
should do, right. 

1170
01:06:59,410 --> 01:07:03,250
And it says that because what 
you mentioned like nobody wants 

1171
01:07:03,250 --> 01:07:04,930
change. 
Nobody wants to be confronted 

1172
01:07:04,930 --> 01:07:08,930
with the fact that they. 
Well, my realization at the bank

1173
01:07:08,930 --> 01:07:13,810
story, for example, that I lived
for, you know, 12/10/12 years in

1174
01:07:13,810 --> 01:07:16,330
adult life and had no clue what 
I was doing. 

1175
01:07:16,330 --> 01:07:19,000
Yeah, that's not a fun 
realization, man. 

1176
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:23,160
Like that's that's no fun. 
But it is what it is, right. 

1177
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,120
And and you can say, like, OK, 
I'm, I'm going to do nothing and

1178
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,280
I'm going to keep this fault in 
my head like I'm stupid. 

1179
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,480
I'm unaware Yadida. 
Or I just take take this loss, 

1180
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,680
this experience basically, and 
learn from it and and see how 

1181
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,840
and if I can change it. 
And to do that, yes, you have to

1182
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:47,700
do work that's actual, yeah 
work, it's hard and it's, it's 

1183
01:07:47,700 --> 01:07:50,860
an internal battle. 
So for me that rationale to just

1184
01:07:52,060 --> 01:07:55,140
keep repeating like you know, 
short term pain over long term, 

1185
01:07:55,420 --> 01:07:58,020
you know results in long term. 
Gains essentially you know like 

1186
01:07:58,020 --> 01:08:03,060
that that that is that is just 
that is just it yeah that's like

1187
01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:06,180
a little tool you know to. 
Sort of Brain hacks. 

1188
01:08:06,180 --> 01:08:07,460
Sort of Brain hack. 
Well said. 

1189
01:08:07,460 --> 01:08:10,660
It's like the the simple 
sentences that you can remind 

1190
01:08:10,660 --> 01:08:13,460
yourself of. 
Is definitely how you can hack 

1191
01:08:13,460 --> 01:08:15,820
that habitual subconscious 
behavior. 

1192
01:08:16,060 --> 01:08:17,939
So that's a really good example,
by the way. 

1193
01:08:19,260 --> 01:08:23,220
Yeah, thanks. 
So when someone says what is 

1194
01:08:23,220 --> 01:08:26,180
Bitcoin and why should I care? 
What is your go to? 

1195
01:08:27,819 --> 01:08:29,500
What's the snippet? 
What's the pitch? 

1196
01:08:30,899 --> 01:08:32,060
Try me. 
Yeah. 

1197
01:08:32,060 --> 01:08:33,979
Yeah. 
Well, I would start and of 

1198
01:08:33,979 --> 01:08:36,140
course it depends on the person,
but I would start with something

1199
01:08:36,140 --> 01:08:39,620
like it's the death of the ego 
of capital, right? 

1200
01:08:40,109 --> 01:08:43,670
So that's, that's what I like 
the most about it. 

1201
01:08:44,830 --> 01:08:48,430
It's the decentralized nature 
and the fact that nobody can 

1202
01:08:48,430 --> 01:08:52,590
control it, nobody can change 
it, nobody can dilute it, nobody

1203
01:08:52,590 --> 01:08:55,870
can devalue it. 
That's what it gives it power. 

1204
01:08:56,350 --> 01:08:59,830
And then of course, because it 
has a maximum supply that people

1205
01:08:59,830 --> 01:09:03,950
cannot change, so because we are
inherently corrupt. 

1206
01:09:04,250 --> 01:09:07,130
So we need something that people
cannot influence. 

1207
01:09:07,370 --> 01:09:11,370
Well, there you go, Bitcoin. 
And since inflation is the 

1208
01:09:11,370 --> 01:09:14,130
biggest problem of the current 
situation in the global 

1209
01:09:14,130 --> 01:09:16,850
financial system, we need 
something that cannot be 

1210
01:09:16,850 --> 01:09:19,210
inflated. 
There you go, Bitcoin. 

1211
01:09:19,529 --> 01:09:22,490
And because it has a maximum 
supply and a monetary policy 

1212
01:09:22,490 --> 01:09:26,010
that's fully transparent, 
everyone, every single person in

1213
01:09:26,010 --> 01:09:29,810
every business can create their 
own Financial Policy based on 

1214
01:09:29,810 --> 01:09:33,930
something really transparent. 
So you remove all the excuses. 

1215
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,160
It's only you and your business,
you and your personal life. 

1216
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:41,840
And now that whole victim 
mindset that I hate by the way. 

1217
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:47,439
So that's what we can remove 
from from lots of people like 

1218
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,680
that victim mindset. 
It's not there anymore in this 

1219
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:52,760
world. 
You actually can create whatever

1220
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,960
you want to create in the world 
of Bitcoin. 

1221
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,000
It's up to you. 
There's no money printer. 

1222
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,040
There's no central authority 
that says you don't have access 

1223
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,720
and you do have access. 
No create real world value. 

1224
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:09,280
And that's what I like. 
I see so many feel people around

1225
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:13,440
me, they make way too much money
without delivering any value. 

1226
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,400
And then I see people who do 
deliver value and they don't 

1227
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:19,840
make money in various parts of 
the world. 

1228
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,240
Now you have me questioning what
is going on. 

1229
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:29,280
And therefore, I would say the 
answer is Bitcoin fixes that and

1230
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,480
I really believe it. 
So that's my, I would say thing 

1231
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:35,040
that I would say to someone, 
This is why you should care. 

1232
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,360
Yeah. 
Yeah, I love it. 

1233
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,640
One thought to tie back to what 
we just talked about is that it 

1234
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,080
basically forces accountability.
Yeah, right. 

1235
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,080
When I talk to my friend who I 
want to orange Bill about 

1236
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,560
Bitcoin or, well, this is 
another one I try, they have 

1237
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,400
enough money and I'm trying to 
like get them in. 

1238
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,920
But he says, OK, if I have a 
million in Bitcoin, I have to 

1239
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:02,680
guard it. 
Like I have to safe keep it, 

1240
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,480
right. 
And then I say, yeah, that's the

1241
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:07,720
whole point. 
But just that, right? 

1242
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,440
That that accountability is 
something he has never 

1243
01:11:10,440 --> 01:11:15,520
experienced in his life, right. 
So that is hard. 

1244
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,760
It's hard to adopt that. 
And I hear that back in what you

1245
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,520
just said, like this will force 
accountability. 

1246
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:27,320
You actually have to deliver 
value to receive value, which I 

1247
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:31,880
would agree sounds very daunting
in well, at least the Western 

1248
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,240
world. 
I think in other parts of the 

1249
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:38,190
world, yeah, people have no 
other choice than to be 

1250
01:11:38,190 --> 01:11:40,990
accountable, right? 
Because it's way harder to find 

1251
01:11:40,990 --> 01:11:44,190
food, for example. 
So you have to actually do shit 

1252
01:11:44,190 --> 01:11:50,310
you don't want to do. 
And my take away from that is 

1253
01:11:50,590 --> 01:11:54,550
that sounds daunting, but I do 
think you and I at least both 

1254
01:11:54,550 --> 01:11:56,270
believe. 
And it would also be daunting 

1255
01:11:56,270 --> 01:11:59,630
for me, if I'm really honest. 
But I do think we both believe 

1256
01:11:59,630 --> 01:12:02,670
the rationale behind this is 
that that will make you a 

1257
01:12:02,750 --> 01:12:06,710
happier human, yes. 
That you know you will be more 

1258
01:12:06,710 --> 01:12:11,130
proud of doing the work and 
accomplishing or getting 

1259
01:12:11,130 --> 01:12:16,530
rewarded for that and being able
to do buy something else or 

1260
01:12:16,530 --> 01:12:18,850
trade that for something. 
That's like I think people will 

1261
01:12:18,850 --> 01:12:23,860
be more proud and more happy. 
Although the first you know the 

1262
01:12:23,940 --> 01:12:27,820
the term forced accountability 
sounds very daunting in the. 

1263
01:12:27,860 --> 01:12:28,460
Sense. 
Yeah. 

1264
01:12:28,460 --> 01:12:31,820
And I still believe that if you 
want to, like keep your money at

1265
01:12:31,820 --> 01:12:36,620
a bank, like, by all means do. 
People should, however be more 

1266
01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:39,300
educated about what happens 
behind the scenes, what you were

1267
01:12:39,300 --> 01:12:42,460
talking about fractional reserve
banking, so the money isn't 

1268
01:12:42,460 --> 01:12:44,460
there. 
So do realize there's risk 

1269
01:12:44,460 --> 01:12:47,100
involved. 
And that risk is real. 

1270
01:12:47,460 --> 01:12:51,060
And it's seriously real in other
countries of the of the world, 

1271
01:12:51,060 --> 01:12:53,060
right? 
Less real in in the Netherlands 

1272
01:12:53,060 --> 01:12:55,740
right now. 
Now, so I do believe like, OK, 

1273
01:12:55,820 --> 01:12:59,260
so you already know lots of 
things that were in the news the

1274
01:12:59,260 --> 01:13:02,420
last decades of people losing 
their money at the banks. 

1275
01:13:02,780 --> 01:13:05,300
So now you have a solution to 
that. 

1276
01:13:05,500 --> 01:13:08,860
That means that if it still 
happens to you, because now 

1277
01:13:08,860 --> 01:13:11,300
you're if you have listened to 
this podcast, you're now 

1278
01:13:11,300 --> 01:13:14,940
educated, you now know about the
risk at the banks, and you know 

1279
01:13:14,940 --> 01:13:19,100
now that Bitcoin is in your own 
custody and you have to perform 

1280
01:13:19,100 --> 01:13:22,220
full accountability in order to 
store it safely. 

1281
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:25,870
So if you then choose to keep it
on the bank even though you are 

1282
01:13:25,870 --> 01:13:29,510
educated, then it's not up to 
you to complain. 

1283
01:13:29,510 --> 01:13:32,910
If this bank goes bankrupt, 
you're not in the victim mindset

1284
01:13:32,910 --> 01:13:34,350
anymore. 
You cannot say, yeah, I had 

1285
01:13:34,350 --> 01:13:37,390
$200,000 or I had a million. 
Now it's a choice. 

1286
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:38,790
Now it's a choice. 
Yeah, it's. 

1287
01:13:38,870 --> 01:13:41,070
A choice. 
So I don't care anymore if it 

1288
01:13:41,070 --> 01:13:43,310
happens to you because you were 
educated. 

1289
01:13:43,310 --> 01:13:46,190
I do care if it happens to 
people who are uneducated. 

1290
01:13:46,510 --> 01:13:50,990
So therefore I we educate. 
However, that victim mindset is 

1291
01:13:50,990 --> 01:13:53,370
gone. 
You're not allowed to complain 

1292
01:13:53,370 --> 01:13:56,290
about banks if they lose your 
money, if you had the choice to 

1293
01:13:56,290 --> 01:13:59,690
hold your own money. 
So it makes life easier. 

1294
01:13:59,770 --> 01:14:02,370
It make life easier, right? 
For everyone and anywhere, 

1295
01:14:02,370 --> 01:14:05,450
everywhere around the world. 
But if you choose to not do it, 

1296
01:14:05,650 --> 01:14:08,930
I understand it as well. 
And then trust your bank and pay

1297
01:14:08,930 --> 01:14:10,570
them for it. 
That's what happens. 

1298
01:14:11,370 --> 01:14:14,010
Yeah, I agree. 
And so it's fine if you do that.

1299
01:14:14,050 --> 01:14:15,970
Obviously everyone has a free 
choice. 

1300
01:14:16,050 --> 01:14:18,970
But you do have to understand, I
like what you said about risk 

1301
01:14:20,610 --> 01:14:24,250
and I want to repeat it as well.
Like the money in the bank is 

1302
01:14:24,250 --> 01:14:29,090
not risk free, right, It's you 
loan it to the bank and they 

1303
01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:30,890
will try. 
That's their business model. 

1304
01:14:30,890 --> 01:14:33,610
They will try to make more of 
that. 

1305
01:14:33,610 --> 01:14:37,650
When they make more of that, you
don't see any upside. 

1306
01:14:38,170 --> 01:14:40,010
Only their shareholders will see
the upside. 

1307
01:14:40,420 --> 01:14:43,580
When they lose the money and the
bank goes bust, either your 

1308
01:14:43,580 --> 01:14:46,660
money is gone or if it's insured
up until a certain amount, you 

1309
01:14:46,660 --> 01:14:49,020
will get the money, you will get
the numbers back. 

1310
01:14:49,020 --> 01:14:51,780
But that money will come from 
the government, which comes from

1311
01:14:51,780 --> 01:14:54,660
the citizens. 
So it eventually it comes from 

1312
01:14:54,660 --> 01:14:57,500
you anyway, You know that is 
just how it works. 

1313
01:14:57,500 --> 01:15:00,780
There's no judgment in that, 
like that is just how it works. 

1314
01:15:01,900 --> 01:15:05,940
But if you understand that 
there's a very big risk factor 

1315
01:15:06,780 --> 01:15:11,520
that's attached to following 
this, that's also why the banks 

1316
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,280
ask you questions. 
If you want to take more than 

1317
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:20,120
10K20K out of the bank because 
they can loan out 10 times more.

1318
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:24,400
So you basically take away a 
part of their business model of 

1319
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,800
their cash flow. 
If you take that what you own, I

1320
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:30,440
think that's also a very 
important thing like 

1321
01:15:30,440 --> 01:15:33,280
conceptually this is your 
property, right? 

1322
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:39,290
How or why does a third party 
ask you what are you going to 

1323
01:15:39,290 --> 01:15:43,210
use this money that you already 
earned and pay taxes on? 

1324
01:15:43,610 --> 01:15:44,850
What are you going to use that 
for? 

1325
01:15:44,850 --> 01:15:46,770
Like, how is that their 
business, right? 

1326
01:15:46,770 --> 01:15:50,450
And again, like for me, that's 
another like thing of this 

1327
01:15:50,450 --> 01:15:53,050
system that just comes out when 
you talk about it. 

1328
01:15:53,050 --> 01:15:55,410
That just makes absolutely no 
sense. 

1329
01:15:55,770 --> 01:15:58,730
But they ask it because the 
system works in a certain way 

1330
01:15:58,730 --> 01:16:02,370
and you have no understanding 
about the fact that it works 

1331
01:16:02,370 --> 01:16:04,730
like that. 
So to tie that back into what 

1332
01:16:04,730 --> 01:16:09,890
you said, if you just follow 
this system and put your money 

1333
01:16:09,890 --> 01:16:11,290
in the bank and all these 
things, fine. 

1334
01:16:11,370 --> 01:16:14,890
But make sure that you 
understand how it works and what

1335
01:16:14,890 --> 01:16:17,570
the implications are. 
And if you then still think it's

1336
01:16:17,570 --> 01:16:21,570
fine, then you know, fine, You 
know it's okay. 

1337
01:16:21,650 --> 01:16:23,290
That's totally, it's totally 
okay. 

1338
01:16:23,730 --> 01:16:25,530
Do it. 
Do it like it's super fine. 

1339
01:16:25,570 --> 01:16:27,370
Yeah. 
And and also of course, and I 

1340
01:16:27,370 --> 01:16:30,010
mean, we also have money in the 
bank because we have to pay for 

1341
01:16:30,010 --> 01:16:32,930
food and and and things. 
So it did. 

1342
01:16:34,490 --> 01:16:37,410
Sorry to add one thing, I don't 
think this is like an anti bank 

1343
01:16:37,410 --> 01:16:40,810
thing or whatever. 
The bank is just a part of how 

1344
01:16:40,810 --> 01:16:43,450
the system works and of course 
we use it and we all have bank 

1345
01:16:43,450 --> 01:16:44,890
accounts. 
So it's not anti bank or 

1346
01:16:44,890 --> 01:16:51,960
whatever, this is anti bad money
this yes and that's what it's 

1347
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,760
about. 
And I want to add, the thing 

1348
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,440
that I want to add is yes, it's 
anti money. 

1349
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:59,000
It's not anti bank at all 
because they provide services 

1350
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,480
that people love, like and use, 
which is fine. 

1351
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:05,000
I agree. 
I do believe that and needed by 

1352
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,520
the. 
Way how they've started, Yes, 

1353
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:08,560
and needed for companies and all
these things. 

1354
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:09,920
Yes. 
And by the way, like the. 

1355
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:16,120
You the education part here is 
also to understand that if you 

1356
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,480
do a little bit of history 
lessons and I did a lot of those

1357
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:25,480
regarding to money, it's we are 
in fact in the end of a long 

1358
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:28,240
term debt cycle and that's 
important to realize and it's 

1359
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:33,360
not only the end of a long term 
debt cycle, the last like the 

1360
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,040
last long term debt cycle likes 
80 to 100 years or so. 

1361
01:17:36,500 --> 01:17:40,980
It's like if you look further 
down back in time, you also see 

1362
01:17:40,980 --> 01:17:45,260
that every time when we blew 
stuff up, banks run into trouble

1363
01:17:45,260 --> 01:17:48,980
the first okay. 
So the risk that normally is the

1364
01:17:48,980 --> 01:17:52,340
risk that the bank takes by 
lending out your money to 

1365
01:17:52,340 --> 01:17:55,820
someone else, to help people 
invest, to lend out, to buy a 

1366
01:17:55,820 --> 01:17:59,060
house and if those these persons
or these people cannot. 

1367
01:17:59,610 --> 01:18:02,570
Return the money then you, 
that's the risk that you don't 

1368
01:18:02,570 --> 01:18:05,490
get your money back. 
Those risks are small when we 

1369
01:18:05,490 --> 01:18:09,810
are in good times right now. 
So now we turn into less good 

1370
01:18:09,810 --> 01:18:11,890
times. 
But importantly, more 

1371
01:18:11,890 --> 01:18:15,090
importantly, I would say the 
long term debt cycle is really 

1372
01:18:15,090 --> 01:18:17,130
getting to an end. 
And if you then see what 

1373
01:18:17,130 --> 01:18:20,610
happened in history like for 
thousands of years, you saw 

1374
01:18:20,610 --> 01:18:23,410
actually that we returned back 
to hard forms of money. 

1375
01:18:23,770 --> 01:18:27,880
So people lose. 
Trust day by day, year by year, 

1376
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,760
decade by decade in that paper 
money part. 

1377
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:35,080
And in that end cycle, you do 
see that banks run into trouble 

1378
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:37,720
first? 
So take that with you in the 

1379
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,680
educational part. 
It's not only the risk that they

1380
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,360
always have. 
The banks, you could argue that 

1381
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,920
they now have higher risks 
because people have less faith 

1382
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:50,160
in money if there's more 
inflations globally. 

1383
01:18:50,480 --> 01:18:53,240
So that means that you 
especially should be aware right

1384
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,920
now and not keep all the money 
at one bank account. 

1385
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:02,880
Probably yes, because the most 
insurance is only one account on

1386
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,830
one bank. 
So if you have more than certain

1387
01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:08,630
amount, like more money than 
what the insurance covers, you 

1388
01:19:08,630 --> 01:19:12,790
need more, more bank accounts. 
Yeah, I fully agree with what 

1389
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:15,710
you say. 
And especially in this time, you

1390
01:19:15,710 --> 01:19:21,580
know, there have been like some 
publications or news like news 

1391
01:19:21,580 --> 01:19:25,460
messages about, you know, a bank
run at this day and age, you 

1392
01:19:25,460 --> 01:19:29,300
know, could be way worse because
it's all digitally, etc, etc, 

1393
01:19:29,300 --> 01:19:30,740
right. 
There's not going to be a line 

1394
01:19:30,740 --> 01:19:34,260
at the bank for people who want 
the cash currently that that 

1395
01:19:34,260 --> 01:19:37,220
would probably not even be 
possible because the cash is not

1396
01:19:37,220 --> 01:19:40,540
in a bank, which is also just 
interesting to. 

1397
01:19:41,220 --> 01:19:48,490
But, but I I wonder what will 
happen if if more and more 

1398
01:19:48,490 --> 01:19:53,930
people realize that, yeah, 
perhaps the money is not as safe

1399
01:19:53,930 --> 01:19:56,090
as they fought in the bank and 
they want to move it to 

1400
01:19:56,090 --> 01:19:58,010
whatever, whether it's Bitcoin 
or whatever. 

1401
01:19:59,410 --> 01:20:02,250
You know the, the, the let's 
call it the system is going to 

1402
01:20:02,250 --> 01:20:05,010
have a real problem because if 
they are going to say well you 

1403
01:20:05,010 --> 01:20:07,530
cannot take your money out right
like now how they are asking 

1404
01:20:07,530 --> 01:20:10,130
questions when you take out 
1010K or more. 

1405
01:20:11,940 --> 01:20:15,660
Then more and more people will 
think like, hey this doesn't 

1406
01:20:15,740 --> 01:20:18,540
sound right, you know, like how 
how does this actually work? 

1407
01:20:18,540 --> 01:20:22,500
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I don't want 
to say excited, but I'm 

1408
01:20:22,500 --> 01:20:27,020
intrigued by by what is going to
come because yeah, what you 

1409
01:20:27,020 --> 01:20:29,540
mentioned about debt cycle in 
America, like obviously we don't

1410
01:20:29,540 --> 01:20:34,420
live in America, but America at 
least the money is everywhere. 

1411
01:20:34,420 --> 01:20:39,450
So we are definitely also 
downstream from any anything 

1412
01:20:39,450 --> 01:20:42,650
that could possibly blow up in 
America. 

1413
01:20:42,650 --> 01:20:47,570
And yeah, that's why I think 
maybe this is a nice one to end 

1414
01:20:47,570 --> 01:20:49,450
it with. 
That's why people say Bitcoin is

1415
01:20:49,450 --> 01:20:51,210
a life raft, right? 
Like it's a lifeboat. 

1416
01:20:51,210 --> 01:20:54,810
It's at least something outside 
of a current system that could 

1417
01:20:54,810 --> 01:20:57,650
potentially again, right, no 
investment advice, etc. 

1418
01:20:58,250 --> 01:21:04,860
Help you protect yourself from a
flawed system that we currently 

1419
01:21:04,860 --> 01:21:07,660
use. 
Definitely as a release valve. 

1420
01:21:07,660 --> 01:21:10,540
To me, it's a release valve. 
It's going to suck up value. 

1421
01:21:10,780 --> 01:21:15,220
Where the older system is slowly
dying, the new system will suck 

1422
01:21:15,340 --> 01:21:20,580
value, and of course that goes 
up and down until the old system

1423
01:21:20,580 --> 01:21:23,680
dies faster. 
So I agree with that and I also 

1424
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,760
believe the last thing I think 
that the dollar, even though it 

1425
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,880
will probably blow up in the 
States as well, I guess that the

1426
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:32,880
dollar will suck up more value 
than the euro. 

1427
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:38,880
So in that case, even if it 
blows up over there, I I worry 

1428
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:40,760
about what happens in Europe as 
well. 

1429
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:46,120
I don't think that the euro will
survive or has better chance to 

1430
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,900
survive than the dollar. 
So in that sense, I think 

1431
01:21:49,900 --> 01:21:53,620
there's a lot, a lot to say 
about that as well, but maybe 

1432
01:21:53,620 --> 01:21:56,340
for another time. 
But please do realize that if it

1433
01:21:56,340 --> 01:21:59,540
blows up in the States, Europe 
is not better off at all. 

1434
01:22:00,620 --> 01:22:02,420
No, I agree. 
OK, right. 

1435
01:22:02,660 --> 01:22:05,940
Very last question. 
And I ask everyone what's a core

1436
01:22:05,940 --> 01:22:07,540
belief that you will never let 
go? 

1437
01:22:13,380 --> 01:22:15,820
A core belief that I will never 
let go. 

1438
01:22:21,460 --> 01:22:24,460
Well, that's probably something.
That's an odd topic right now as

1439
01:22:24,460 --> 01:22:28,060
well, that biologically we only 
have a man and a woman. 

1440
01:22:32,260 --> 01:22:34,260
Okay. 
Well, let's see how far we get 

1441
01:22:34,260 --> 01:22:39,020
with this podcast now. 
All right, man. 

1442
01:22:39,020 --> 01:22:40,180
Thanks so much. 
I love. 

1443
01:22:40,220 --> 01:22:45,400
I love this conversation. 
I think, yeah, very different 

1444
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:48,400
than what I thought up front. 
But I really like this 

1445
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:52,640
philosophical and spiritual 
angle, as I also do really see 

1446
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,040
that as part of the Bitcoin 
journey. 

1447
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:59,320
So thanks a lot. 
And yeah, like could you share 

1448
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,440
where people can find you, 
follow you? 

1449
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:07,560
Yeah, to hear more from you. 
Yeah, I'm always on LinkedIn, so

1450
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,840
my name, of course, Mark with A 
C von Versandal. 

1451
01:23:11,430 --> 01:23:14,990
And I'm on Twitter as well, so 
you will find me at the same 

1452
01:23:14,990 --> 01:23:17,550
name probably, so please follow 
me there. 

1453
01:23:18,030 --> 01:23:21,550
I have a company 
cryptounseen.com. 

1454
01:23:21,550 --> 01:23:25,590
cryptounseen.com of course 
created to share people what 

1455
01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:29,550
crypto is in fact all about 
instead of all the scam stories 

1456
01:23:29,550 --> 01:23:33,540
that most have heard about. 
And in that community, we of 

1457
01:23:33,540 --> 01:23:37,380
course share all the 
macroeconomic and geopolitical 

1458
01:23:37,380 --> 01:23:40,100
insights and of course the 
philosophical insights that we 

1459
01:23:40,100 --> 01:23:42,420
discussed today. 
So if you're interested in 

1460
01:23:42,420 --> 01:23:45,340
connecting with me, you can find
me in those places. 

1461
01:23:47,020 --> 01:23:48,460
Awesome man. 
And so much thank you. 

1462
01:23:48,460 --> 01:23:49,740
Very well. 
You did a great job soon. 

1463
01:23:50,100 --> 01:23:51,660
Yes. 
And we see each other soon. 

1464
01:23:51,660 --> 01:23:53,780
Thank you very much. 
Cheers man. 

1465
01:23:53,860 --> 01:23:56,550
Bye. 
I hope you enjoyed this episode.

1466
01:23:56,550 --> 01:23:59,550
If you did, it would be amazing 
if you could rate, review and 

1467
01:23:59,550 --> 01:24:02,110
subscribe on the podcast 
platform of your choice. 

1468
01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:05,070
It will help us educate more 
millennials on the importance of

1469
01:24:05,150 --> 01:24:07,110
Bitcoin. 
You can follow and connect with 

1470
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:08,390
me on Twitter. 
I'm Bramk. 

1471
01:24:08,670 --> 01:24:12,270
That's at Bramk. 
And if you are or know someone 

1472
01:24:12,270 --> 01:24:14,310
who has an interesting 
perspective on Bitcoin that's 

1473
01:24:14,310 --> 01:24:17,310
worth sharing, hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1474
01:24:17,310 --> 01:24:19,190
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1475
01:24:19,190 --> 01:24:20,870
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1476
01:24:21,190 --> 01:24:22,430
Thanks for listening. 
Bye. 

1477
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:31,640
Play all songs of Kasam.