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All right, hey there. 
This is from Constant and you're

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listening to Bitcoin for 
Millennials. 

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In this episode, I'm joined by 
AMI Edberg. 

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She is a Swedish TikTok 
influencer and Bitcoin educator 

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dedicated to sharing insights 
and demonstrating that Bitcoin 

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is more than just a digital 
currency. 

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Her mission is to educate and 
inspire a global audience about 

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Bitcoins value. 
And beyond social media, she's a

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board member of the Swedish 
Bitcoin Association and manages 

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customer relationships, 
education and partnerships at 

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Sweden's leading Bitcoin 
exchange BTC X. 

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So welcome, Amy. 
Thank you, thank you for having 

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me. 
It's so fun because this 

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interest they always make me 
smile like an idiot. 

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Why? 
This is what you do. 

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I know, it's crazy. 
Right. 

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Well, I think it's fun actually 
that you're obviously way 

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younger than I am and you're 
super active on Tiktok. 

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I have like a Tiktok account 
where I was like, OK, I'm going 

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to start some Bitcoin content. 
I never really got started with 

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it. 
I think I also have the 

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millennial pause, by the way. 
You know what that is? 

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Yeah. 
Like the the Gen. 

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Z people, like they just start 
filming and talking and 

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millennials, they click record 
and then they wait like and, and

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to see like, is it really 
recording? 

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And then they start talking. 
I don't know if you ever saw it,

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but once someone told me, I 
could not Unsee it anymore. 

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And I was like, damn, this is 
what I do like checking it to 

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read the record. 
So I appreciate your tech talk 

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efforts and, and we're going to 
talk about that because I'm 

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interested to hear like, you 
know, are you reaching people 

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and, and what are they saying? 
But I first wanted to start when

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I mentioned it already. 
I think you're 22 three. 

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I turned 23 last week, so oh. 
Wow, Congrats. 

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Yeah. 
So you're part of of Gen. 

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Z, like how do you experience 
talking about finance, 

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economics, Bitcoin, etcetera 
with with your generation? 

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It's a good question. 
Like talking about finance and 

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Bitcoin is not really that 
difficult. 

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I feel like the hard part is 
getting people to understand. 

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I would say that like, like the 
whole generation, we care a lot 

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about finances and economy, but 
in a way, like honestly in a way

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that we haven't done before. 
But I kind of feel like a lot of

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people focus on the wrong thing.
So like the focus is more on on 

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the on the individual part. 
And it's often like get to get 

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rich quick, if you know what I 
mean. 

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So every time I mention Bitcoin,
that's usually like where the 

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focus ends up, like how to get 
rich, When will I get rich if I 

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buy Bitcoin? 
How much should I invest? 

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So like talking Bitcoin in, in 
this generation, like that's not

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difficult. 
But the difficult thing is to 

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make people understand that 
Bitcoin is like so much more 

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than just an an investment that 
you can get rich from. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, it's funny, right? 

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Because Bitcoin is not a get 
rich quick scheme. 

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It's a do not get poor scheme, 
right? 

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Like. 
It's like every time someone is 

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like OK but how? 
How do I get money fast? 

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I'm always like OK buy buy your 
shit coin come talk to me later.

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Yeah, exactly. 
You got a shit coin before you 

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before you Bitcoin. 
But where where do you think 

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people get this get rich quick 
attitude from? 

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Like is that is that the culture
or? 

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I think it's the probably the 
culture I don't know. 

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But they would realize it's not 
realistic, I think. 

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Probably. 
But then when you talk about it 

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like what? 
What do they say When you say 

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like, well Bitcoin is not a get 
rich quick scheme? 

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Well a lot of people are like 
it's not a non any ID for me 

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like to buy Bitcoin. 
I'm too late that I will never 

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make money of this. 
So that's like the kind of 

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approach that I get when when 
I'm trying to talk about Bitcoin

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in like an investment part. 
Yeah. 

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And so then it must also be hard
to go beyond that part, right? 

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Like for them to see everything 
else about Bitcoin? 

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Yeah, probably. 
But like, I think the hardest 

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part is to make people 
understand that Bitcoin is more 

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than an investment. 
And then you're like, what is it

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then? 
And it's so hard for people to 

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to like grasp the Bitcoin as a 
solution because they don't have

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that much knowledge about our 
current monetary system. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So they don't see the problem, 

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right? 
I think, I think that's in 

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general a problem for us, right?
People who are very passionate 

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about Bitcoin and we start 
talking about it, you know, like

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most people don't really realize
that they have a problem. 

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And I think, you know, you're 
from Sweden and I'm from the 

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Netherlands. 
Like we, we live in countries 

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where, yeah, I don't know, like 
the money just works, right? 

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When you were younger, you got 
some coins and you went to a 

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store and you bought something. 
I was like OK, this thing works.

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I, I usually say that like in my
generation, I represent a 

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generation where like we believe
that a blip with our Visa or 

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MasterCard that solves all of 
our problems. 

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Yeah, funny. 
Yeah, it's interesting. 

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So when you go on TikTok and you
share your videos, what type of 

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engagement do you get? 
Like are there, I mean, 

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sometimes on YouTube here, like 
I get people that reply like, 

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hey, you got me into this part 
of Bitcoin or that or you got me

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studying, you know, and I always
think that's nice to hear 

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because I don't I don't think 
you can orange bill someone 

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else, right? 
Like they need to get interested

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and then study. 
Like how is that on on TikTok? 

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It's, it's actually so amazing. 
I had women in a Bitcoin 

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workshop just a week ago and it 
was this girl that came up to me

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and she said that you know that 
I'm like in Bitcoin now because 

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of you. 
And like I, I still can't grasp 

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that. 
Like just the fact that I know 

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that I like, I, I orange pill 
people. 

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I know that because that's the 
reason why people people follow 

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me on TikTok or Twitter, but 
just when it was in person, like

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when someone someone come up to 
you like that, that that made me

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so happy. 
But well, I believe that, like, 

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the reason that I started with 
the with, with the TikTok is I, 

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I think that I understand like 
the significance of, of Bitcoin 

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and like when you start to grasp
that, you kind of feel like 

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compelled to share that 
knowledge with others. 

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So like, I have a lot of 
friends, but every time I try to

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speak about Bitcoin, like, no, 
no one was listening. 

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And who, who am I to blame them?
Because I walked in their shoes.

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And I think that I realized that
in in in my generation, the 

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problem is the lack of 
knowledge, like I mentioned, 

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like you won't see the the 
solution if you don't understand

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the problem, but also like the 
the this interesting in in 

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learning. 
So yes, I just mentioned you 

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have to like start at at the 
other end. 

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I might be generalizing now, but
I feel like we bitcoiners were 

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so good, like me included at 
throwing information at the, the

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people that were talking to the 
people that were trying to 

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orange pill. 
But like I recently understood 

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that it's, it's not in human 
nature to understand a solution 

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if you don't grasp the problem. 
And this comes with everything. 

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So I, I, I took this example. 
If if you put a vacuum cleaner 

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in front of a person and they 
have no idea what a vacuum 

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cleaner is, they won't 
understand how to use it because

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like you won't understand how to
use a vacuum cleaner if you 

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don't understand that the 
problem is that you don't want a

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dirty floor and you won't 
understand the problem. 

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And no, no, not the problem. 
The solution of watering can. 

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If you don't understand that, 
the problem is that like your 

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flower is going to die if you 
don't water it. 

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So you won't fully understand 
because potential unless you see

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how monetary our how broken our 
current monetary system is. 

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So yeah, I guess that like, it 
was the gap in knowledge that 

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made me realize that, like, this
is people that should be aware 

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of this, they should be aware on
like how our current monetary 

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system works. 
So while my friends were like 

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uploading videos on Tiktok while
they were dancing, like I did 

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that as well, dancing and doing 
their makeup, I realized that, 

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hey, this is an opportunity to 
talk about Bitcoin because how 

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do you orange peel your 
generation? 

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Yeah, you go where they are and 
they're watching Tiktok. 

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So, but like, I feel like the 
comments are both first, they 

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were like pretty negative. 
And it was also like, you're a 

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girl. 
What? 

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What can you tell me about 
Bitcoin? 

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And I think that motivated me to
be like, OK, let me show you 

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what I can teach you about 
Bitcoin. 

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Hey there, I want to ask you for
a quick favor. 

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I noticed something interesting.
75% of my viewers aren't 

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subscribed yet. 
Subscribing helps me grow this 

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channel, ensuring more great 
content each week. 

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So if you're enjoying our 
conversations on Bitcoin for 

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Millennials, please consider 
hitting the subscribe button on 

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YouTube or the follow button on 
your favorite podcasting app. 

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I'm super grateful for everyone 
who already joined and shared 

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their thoughts. 
Your feedback really keeps me 

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going and I want to ask you to 
continue doing that. 

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I tried to respond to all the 
comments and also the emails 

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that I get and DMS on Twitter, 
etcetera. 

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So don't stop doing that. 
I'll keep going. 

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Now let's get back to the 
conversation. 

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Yeah, I love that. 
Yeah. 

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I, I 100% feel the same as like 
you're, you feel the urge to to 

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talk with other people about it,
right? 

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And unlike you start with your 
friends and you hope they can 

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see it too. 
But I think what you said was 

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great. 
Like you've been in their shoes 

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as well, right? 
But, and, and we'll talk a bit 

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about like your journey into 
Bitcoin. 

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But like for me after 10 years, 
like I cannot really retrace my 

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own steps, right? 
And sometimes I hear myself say 

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things where I'm like, oh, wow, 
this is where I'm at now in my 

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thinking, you know, as in wow, 
OK, Like I'm, I'm, I'm again 

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like 2 steps further or 
something like that, right? 

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And so it's hard to kind of like
pinpoint how, how I eventually 

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got here with a certain 
understanding and like urged to 

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tell other people. 
But I also learned along the way

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I have to stop overloading them 
with information, right? 

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Like, it's, it should be the 
other way around. 

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Like, you should start asking 
questions, you know, and you 

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can, you can talk about, you 
know, of course you can share 

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information. 
But when you ask questions, you 

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know, then you invite people, 
you show interest and you invite

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other people to actually think 
about. 

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Well, yeah, what do I think 
about this subject, right. 

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I had, we had friends over like 
2 weeks ago and I was, I was 

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talking to them and ended up on 
Bitcoin or crypto or whatever. 

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And this guy was like, he was 
the boyfriend of my girlfriend's

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best, best friend. 
And I met him for the first 

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time. 
And so he talked about crypto 

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and stuff. 
Yeah, he said, yeah, yeah, I was

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in that. 
But I sold it all. 

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And now I'm doing, I don't know,
S&P 500 ETF or something. 

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And I just started asking 
questions like, OK, you know, 

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which companies carried S&P 500?
You know what, what is the 

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return of the S&P 500 over the 
past five years? 

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Like do you know how much 
Bitcoin is? 

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Etcetera. 
And he he didn't know the 

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answers, so I said, OK, but then
you're investing in something 

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that you don't really 
understand. 

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He's like, well, yeah, well, 
apparently that's what I'm 

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doing, you know, no, But then 
like, it's, I think that way. 

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And I'm, it's hard for me 
because I just love to like 

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preach it or something, you 
know? 

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And then, but so, but I actually
by asking the questions, it also

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helps me reframe my own answers 
to the questions, right. 

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And be kind of like, like learn 
how other people react or answer

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and then like try to shape my 
like my goal with, you know, 

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what their answers are to me. 
So it's also I, I, I try to look

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at it as like a fun exercise. 
And then at the end he asked me 

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like, you know, have we talked 
for an hour? 

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And he's like, how could you 
send me like these in these 

225
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,400
podcast episodes or what's that 
book you mentioned? 

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And then I think like, wow, 
that's great, right? 

227
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I think that's the only goal we 
can have is that someone is 

228
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,480
like, exactly right. 
Like I'm intrigued. 

229
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,000
I'm, I'm, I'm going to go for 
it. 

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00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,120
And so when, when people reply 
on TikTok, right? 

231
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,240
Like what are some 
misconceptions that that you 

232
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,520
get? 
And like how, how do you address

233
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,920
them? 
Like when when people say you 

234
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,040
know, it's boiling the oceans or
whatever. 

235
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,480
Like I, I think the biggest like
misunderstanding about Bitcoin 

236
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,440
is probably that you have to be 
technical to understand Bitcoin.

237
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,360
And like, no, you don't. 
You do not have to be technical 

238
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,800
to understand Bitcoin. 
Look at me like I'm I'm just a 

239
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,600
normal girl living in Sweden and
I wasn't technical at all when I

240
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:58,160
started to learn about Bitcoin. 
So like I think that's an that's

241
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,840
also a very important 
misunderstanding because that 

242
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,840
scares people away from Bitcoin.
So for example, you don't 

243
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,120
question how your phone works, 
right? 

244
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:14,880
You just use it so and most of 
our like the people around us, 

245
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,400
they don't question the use of 
our monetary system, but you 

246
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,160
still choose to trust it. 
So when the computer arrived, 

247
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,560
that was the thing that was 
super complex and when the 

248
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,600
Internet arrived, that was super
complex. 

249
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,040
And now we think that's super 
easy. 

250
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,720
So like when it comes to 
Bitcoin, I think that we will 

251
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:38,800
grow into that, whether we like 
it or not, but also the meaning 

252
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,200
that like we talked about that 
people think that Bitcoin is 

253
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,760
just an investment or it's just 
a digital currency. 

254
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,120
And Bitcoin is so much more than
just a, a digital currency. 

255
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,960
It's like, for me, Bitcoin is a 
symbol of financial innovation 

256
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,440
and freedom. 
And Bitcoin's value isn't in 

257
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,360
it's like physical form, but it 
the value lies in the ability to

258
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,280
like pioneer new pads and open 
new doors to a decentralized 

259
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:14,560
borderless economy. 
So yeah, the the biggest 

260
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:20,600
misunderstanding is that Bitcoin
is just money a bit Bitcoin is 

261
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,160
for sure money, but it's money 
that we can use as a value 

262
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,920
keeper as well. 
And like, that's the future of 

263
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,360
how we perceive and how we can 
like look back at value again. 

264
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,640
Yeah, well, it's actual money, 
like what the what the call of 

265
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,640
money is, right. 
But there again, like, well, 

266
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,560
that's of course why Robert 
Breedlove has what is the what 

267
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,360
is money show. 
You know, I think and and again,

268
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,040
like for us in a Western 
country, we never question what 

269
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,680
is money, right. 
And so even even kind of poking 

270
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,360
at, you know, if someone says, 
well, Bitcoin is too technical, 

271
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,520
if someone if you don't ask, 
well, can you explain to me how 

272
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,600
the central Bank of Sweden 
works? 

273
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,160
Yeah, there's probably also not 
an answer, right? 

274
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:15,680
But but just being being curious
about that, when someone starts 

275
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,560
talking about that, I think that
is already an interesting 

276
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,560
experience or like the tension 
that you create there, right? 

277
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,880
Because they could be like, you 
know, what are you talking 

278
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,360
about? 
Or they can be very surprised 

279
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,960
when you tell them how central 
banking works, right? 

280
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,560
Or that you know, the numbers in
your banking app are not even 

281
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,080
really there, like not not as 
you remember from the comic 

282
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,600
books. 
You know that there's like a 

283
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,240
safe with golden coins and all 
these things like it's not 

284
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,240
there, it's fake, right? 
Like that is already you don't 

285
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,360
that that's even before you 
would probably talk about 

286
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,920
Bitcoin, you were already 
touching upon those things that 

287
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,160
they never even questioned in 
their life, right? 

288
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,800
So when when you talk about the 
subjects and you say these 

289
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,920
things, that's already like a 
little bomb for people, right? 

290
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,839
Like it's, it's difficult. 
It is, yeah. 

291
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,280
And so how did you get into 
Bitcoin? 

292
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,520
Well, I think that like looking 
at this question, I think that a

293
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,960
lot of like people's Bitcoin 
stores actually begins before 

294
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,880
they actually know it. 
If you ask me this question like

295
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,400
1 1/2 year ago, I would probably
say that my Bitcoin journey 

296
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,160
began in 2021. 
But I'm a white person. 

297
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,320
Like I find myself in every 
situation asking why. 

298
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:47,240
So like that made me realize 
that OK, in 2021 I found an 

299
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,760
interest for Bitcoin, but why 
did I do that? 

300
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,400
So now I would actually say that
my Bitcoin journey began in 

301
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,400
2011. 
And that can sound pretty weird 

302
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,400
because I was only 10 years old.
But that was the first time in 

303
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,320
my life where like I find myself
in, I find myself facing 

304
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,160
experiences that were completely
new to me. 

305
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,200
So for the first time in my 
life, I saw and I experienced 

306
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,000
poverty, for example. 
And now I'm not talking about 

307
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,600
like, the kind of poverty where 
people still have roof over 

308
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,880
their heads. 
I'm talking about like, I saw 

309
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,880
the kind of poverty where people
walk around in the desert asking

310
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,960
for even a drop of water. 
So I saw that, but I also 

311
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,640
experienced the big contrasts 
that exists in Egypt. 

312
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:40,120
So like, for example, you know, 
the big temples and the gold 

313
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,800
chests and everything that comes
with the ancient Egypt. 

314
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:50,280
So I think like even then, even 
though I was so small, I began 

315
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,840
to ask myself why, like, why did
we end up in a society that 

316
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,280
looks like this? 
Because the problem for sure 

317
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,400
isn't the people. 
They, they look so kind. 

318
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,160
And it took me years to 
understand that, no, it's not 

319
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,040
the people who's broken it, it's
the system. 

320
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,440
So the system is broken and but,
but the people are the one who 

321
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,160
suffers. 
Like the our monetary system is 

322
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,920
broken and our monetary system 
is default to our entire world. 

323
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,840
And I think that because I 
experienced this when I was very

324
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,400
young, that like indeed planted 
something in me that year later 

325
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,920
led to my interests in like 
economics, politics, poverty, 

326
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:41,080
culture, which brought me to 
where to select the university. 

327
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,680
And I started to study 
international political economy 

328
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,200
in 2021. 
And when I started to study that

329
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,640
I was still unaware of Bitcoins 
potential impacts in the world. 

330
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,760
But like, I think that the 
academic journey actually like 

331
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,160
led me to broader understanding 
and like eventually to the world

332
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:09,200
of Bitcoin and its implications.
So I guess I just started to 

333
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,600
learn about everything that 
you're not taught in school and.

334
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,280
I also started to question that 
like for example, inflation. 

335
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,240
So we, we looked at inflation, 
we're taught as, as we're taught

336
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,240
in all the universities that so 
we have this 2% inflation and 

337
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,200
that's normal. 
And this is how we keep the 

338
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,440
economy moving. 
And I couldn't shake that off. 

339
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,600
It was like especially the 
inflation part where I was like,

340
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,680
but inflation can't be normal. 
Come on. 

341
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:47,240
So like I found myself deeply 
questioning our, our current 

342
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,920
monetary system. 
And I like, I still remember the

343
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:56,600
night where, where I realized 
that, OK, but maybe Bitcoin is 

344
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,240
the solution because Bitcoin's 
actually always been a part of 

345
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,880
my life because my dad's been 
like he's been into Bitcoin for 

346
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,760
a long time, but it's just been 
there. 

347
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,840
I've never been interested and I
really remember when I was 

348
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,320
sitting at sitting in the 
kitchen and my dad was making 

349
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:23,520
dinner and I was just ranting 
about our word monetary system 

350
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,920
that like we put together, come 
on, like we created this. 

351
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,720
We are the guilty ones. 
Exactly this. 

352
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,160
Is wait, this is a good point. 
I when you hear people from like

353
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,440
Central Bank of Europe be like, 
Oh yeah, we have to tame the, 

354
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,240
the, the beast of inflation, 
blah, blah. 

355
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,920
And I think like you did that, 
like it's not this is your 

356
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,840
policy. 
You're like, you made this up, 

357
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,600
you know, like that is also part
of the entire gas lighting. 

358
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,400
Like, Oh yeah, all inflation. 
Oh, it's the companies and this 

359
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,600
and that. 
Like, no, that's, you know, 

360
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,480
yeah, sorry. 
Exactly. 

361
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,560
So that like I was just who came
up with this? 

362
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,480
Why are we doing this? 
And my dad like casually cooking

363
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,560
food. 
He was like, maybe you should 

364
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,400
look into Bitcoin. 
And I was like, what are you 

365
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,360
talking about? 
And he was like, look into 

366
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,640
Bitcoin, but I was more like, 
OK, please explain to me how 

367
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,200
this made-up currency will fix 
the world. 

368
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,160
But again, I am a person that 
asked why? 

369
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,200
Like I'm super curious. 
I want to know everything about 

370
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,560
everything. 
So after that, like he gave me a

371
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:36,360
quick introduction and but I 
really love that he's kind of do

372
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,120
your own education. 
But I'm here to support you if 

373
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:43,120
you have questions. 
So like after that, I, I guess I

374
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:47,960
like to spend the coming weeks 
just reading everything I could.

375
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,320
I watched a lot of, I don't know
if you know Johnny Appelberg, he

376
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,120
makes videos of Knut Von Holmes 
books or something like that on 

377
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:58,640
YouTube. 
I watch a lot of them. 

378
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,760
Nice. 
That's nice, right? 

379
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,400
Because and, and also what I 
like about making a podcast or 

380
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,760
that you're, you're doing 
TikTok, like you never know 

381
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,960
where what you create, where 
that ends up, right. 

382
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,640
So I think it's really cool that
well, did you met him also like 

383
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,280
in real life later on now, like 
were you able to tell him that 

384
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,480
he he taught you those? 
Yeah. 

385
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,320
Yeah, so I write a bachelor 
thesis about Bitcoin in 

386
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,520
developing countries, and Knut 
was one of the persons that I 

387
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,040
interviewed for that. 
Oh, amazing. 

388
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,720
Yeah, Yeah. 
And so then you studied. 

389
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,520
Your dad must have been super 
happy. 

390
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:44,920
Like, super proud. 
Proud. 

391
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,400
He is. 
OK, but then so you studied and 

392
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,840
then like what? 
What was? 

393
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,240
So you were like, OK, how can 
this magic Internet thing, you 

394
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,680
know, be the solution? 
Like what's What's the core of 

395
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,320
What made it click for you then?
What made it click? 

396
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:08,840
Maybe it was my like my bachelor
thesis that I wrote that that 

397
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:14,320
made me realize because I kind 
of believe that that essay was 

398
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,280
my breakthrough. 
That was when I really 

399
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,760
understood that. 
Like I, I understood Bitcoin 

400
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,360
before that, but I think that 
made me realize that wow, 

401
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,720
Bitcoin solves so many of 
today's financial problems. 

402
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,960
Like, I mean, we can, we can 
just look at the fact that 1.7 

403
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,360
billion people lack access to a 
bank account, but more than half

404
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:41,960
of these people have access to 
mobile phone. 

405
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,440
Like, why don't the world know 
this? 

406
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960
Like tell, tell that to people 
and that should be enough. 

407
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,800
And like also the fact that 
being excluded in a way from, 

408
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,640
from an economy like this, it 
affects a person in everything. 

409
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,560
Like, it gives a person a more 
vulnerable life situation. 

410
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:09,680
And like, not only do they like,
experience financial insecurity,

411
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:16,360
they are like, they also have 
like limited economic security 

412
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,600
and they are poorly prepared for
economic chaos such as like 

413
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,640
hyperinflation. 
And we can like we can even look

414
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,160
at like facts. 
If you have a bad economic 

415
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,520
situation, they have proved that
that will affect your mental 

416
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,720
health. 
And it's closely associated with

417
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,600
like health problems such as 
depression and anxiety or, or 

418
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,000
just like the fact that the 
World Bank, they count financial

419
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,120
inclus inclusion as a human 
right. 

420
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,520
And that means that we have one 
1.7 billion people that lack 

421
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,040
access to human rights. 
And we understand that Bitcoin 

422
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:04,080
can solve this. 
And so, so, so just that with 

423
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,920
the financial inclusion. 
But then when you also 

424
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,720
understand that many developing 
countries, they are so much more

425
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,400
sensitive to inflation and 
hyperinflation, And then you 

426
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,760
come to the realization that 
Bitcoin fixes this as well. 

427
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,360
So it's so it's so powerful. 
I, I really think that my like 

428
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:27,080
my bachelor thesis was for sure 
my, my like my breakthrough when

429
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,600
I was like, wow. 
But was that then also the 

430
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,760
moment for you where you 
actually now that you say this? 

431
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,200
So this is how I think about it.
But like that, you actually, 

432
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,080
when you wrote it down that you 
understood that you understood 

433
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,120
it and then you see what it can 
be. 

434
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,640
Does that make sense? 
Yeah. 

435
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,960
For sure. 
Yeah, funny, funny. 

436
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,920
I think I, I had somewhat the 
same experience, like after all 

437
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,440
the studying, like the different
little essays I wrote also for 

438
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,360
myself or when I had like a 
conversation with people there, 

439
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:05,000
when it just like flowed out of 
my mouth, I was like, OK, this 

440
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,600
is very clear to me. 
So what is? 

441
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,360
What is the implication of this 
right? 

442
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,320
Well, what did you study? 
I I studied something with 

443
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,880
digital communication and 
business and stuff. 

444
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,080
No, no, like not during my 
study, but more like at at 

445
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,080
different moments. 
Yeah, just writing things down 

446
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,120
or like, I don't know, seeing 
something in the news and being 

447
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,960
like, yeah, that doesn't make 
sense. 

448
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,080
Like, yeah, no, I think it 
should be like this and this and

449
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,760
this, right. 
But. 

450
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,000
But it makes a lot to put like 
thoughts and and and things into

451
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,920
a paper. 
It does. 

452
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,400
Yeah, well, it structures your 
thoughts, right? 

453
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,640
I think for me, this is kind of 
also like a selfish hack doing 

454
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,200
the podcast is it helps me 
structure my thoughts, right, 

455
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,360
because I hear you speak about 
your journey and then we share 

456
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,960
and you know, I'm jealous. 
No, but I think as being a 

457
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,720
guest, it's the same. 
It's it's the same, right? 

458
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,720
And also, well, you just shared,
you know, like your friends are 

459
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,040
not really into it or like maybe
a very like small circle, like I

460
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,960
have the same. 
I think in general for lots of 

461
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,680
Bitcoiners, that is the 
experience, right? 

462
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:16,120
Like that your, your real life 
circle is very, very small and 

463
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,480
like online it's hundreds or or 
thousands of people, right. 

464
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,360
But once you, once you talk to 
other bitcoiners in real life, 

465
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,880
you know, or like this, you get 
to kind of like validate your 

466
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,720
thoughts and also realize that 
people from different ages and 

467
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,840
different backgrounds and 
different experiences and 

468
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,240
insights, etcetera. 
Like they all ended up with the 

469
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,080
same conclusion. 
And that's for that's for me, 

470
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:47,120
it's like a very they say like 
like a a positive confirmation 

471
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,320
of my own thinking, right. 
And I think you're experiencing 

472
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,560
that as well, right? 
If you if you reach a random 

473
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,440
person on the Internet and you 
help them get in, you know, get 

474
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,600
Bitcoin and then get into 
Bitcoin, right? 

475
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,200
Like that is just really cool. 
Like that is it is a testament 

476
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,440
also to your own work, right? 
So I think that is it. 

477
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Yeah. 
You know, that's always, always 

478
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,360
fun to hear. 
And so when you wrote the thesis

479
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:21,840
like, what was the reaction? 
OK, so first of all, I wanted to

480
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,360
write in Sweden we write a 
thesis before the bachelor 

481
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,720
thesis and that's called AB 
thesis. 

482
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,720
And that's like a smaller essay 
you do. 

483
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,120
And even there I was like I I 
want to write about Bitcoin. 

484
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,480
And my professor, he said that 
you can't write about Bitcoin in

485
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,880
AB thesis. 
Like Bitcoin is way too abstract

486
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,000
for doing that. 
So I trusted him. 

487
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,960
I, I was like, OK, maybe Bitcoin
is too abstract to write about 

488
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,080
in AB thesis. 
But when he says that you should

489
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:03,920
write about bricks instead and 
like how bricks works together 

490
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,160
with the dollar he got, he got 
he he. 

491
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,760
That was a hard word for. 
Me. 

492
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,320
No, but when he said that write 
about bricks instead. 

493
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:24,640
So I did in my B thesis and I 
can for sure say that bricks is 

494
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,880
way more abstract to write about
than Bitcoin. 

495
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:36,080
But like I left this little note
in the in the end where I said 

496
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:43,480
that maybe we can like, what do 
you say? 

497
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:50,240
Like try to, to put the dollar 
down in another way than bricks.

498
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,600
But I didn't say Bitcoin. 
It was just a hint. 

499
00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:02,600
So for, for my bachelor thesis, 
I like, I was, I already decided

500
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,400
that I'm going to write about 
Bitcoin and I had another 

501
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,880
professor for that. 
And he said no, he was like, no,

502
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,480
we don't have enough data for 
that. 

503
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,240
We don't have enough studies 
where you can like lie your 

504
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,320
study on and it's going to be so
hard for you. 

505
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,400
You shouldn't do that. 
So I had to convince him. 

506
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,960
So what I did was actually that 
I wrote, I think it was like 2 

507
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:35,000
pages or something about like 
how the situation looks in the 

508
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,880
world today. 
And that's when I wrote like, 

509
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,160
oh, 1.7 billion people like 
access to bank account. 

510
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,480
Look how many that has a phone. 
Where can you have Bitcoin on 

511
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,240
your phone? 
And I just gave that to him and 

512
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,880
I said read this and decide 
after that. 

513
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,840
And he read that and after that 
he was like, OK, it will be 

514
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,520
tough but you'll do it. 
And I think I kind of orange 

515
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,040
filled him. 
And so at the end, you, you have

516
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,920
to defend it, I think, right? 
You have to present it and they 

517
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,200
ask you questions. 
How? 

518
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,760
How did that go? 
Actually it went pretty well, 

519
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:18,880
but it it was more like he 
thought that it is like like not

520
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,200
enough research for you to lay 
your study on, but it was so 

521
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,160
like that wasn't a big problem 
at all. 

522
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,480
Nice, nice. 
And so I saw I think on your 

523
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,040
Twitter somewhere, you know, and
you just mentioned it, you know,

524
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,040
like if people want to get rich 
quick, you know, you'll be like,

525
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,480
oh, just get into crypto, try 
that, you know, you figure out 

526
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,840
you won't get rich quick. 
But when you started looking 

527
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,120
into this, did you just stick 
with Bitcoin because your dad 

528
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,520
said that? 
Or did you also look at like 

529
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,000
other crypto? 
Because now of course you are 

530
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,880
Bitcoin only and and and you 
reject crypto totally. 

531
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,440
How? 
How did that go? 

532
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,440
I think that like when you come 
from the economic spur, I think 

533
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,560
that it's quite easy to jump 
over to other cryptocurrencies 

534
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,120
because everything may may make 
sense. 

535
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,160
I can put it like this. 
Bitcoin is the only 

536
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,440
cryptocurrency that is designed 
as a solution to today's 

537
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,360
monetary system. 
That is very important. 

538
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:32,560
And it's only actually also the 
the only cryptocurrency that is 

539
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,320
like completely decentralized 
and lacks the central authority 

540
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,160
that's really important. 
And it is the only 

541
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,160
cryptocurrency with a built in 
mathematical formula that says 

542
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,320
that it will be a maximum of 21 
million bitcoins. 

543
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,040
Like in the long run that will 
mean that we will have a 

544
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,720
deflation. 
That's also really important. 

545
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,400
And. 
If you grasp that, then you'll 

546
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,280
like, you'll come to realize 
that all the coins that are 

547
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,760
created after Bitcoin, they are 
created out of pure greed. 

548
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,000
And Knutson home, he, I think he
usually says that Bitcoin is not

549
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,199
an an invention, It is a 
discovery. 

550
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:18,600
And it it is really difficult to
create a new network where the 

551
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,560
people in the network already 
are aware of the discovery. 

552
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,159
It's really difficult to 
discover something again. 

553
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,120
And, and I know that there like 
I know that there's a lot of 

554
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,239
people that justify the 
existence of other 

555
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,920
cryptocurrencies and believe 
that like Bitcoin has a lot of 

556
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,199
gaps where we can fill in. 
But I would say that it's really

557
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,920
important to understand that 
Bitcoin is a technical 

558
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,040
infrastructure like Internet, 
and it's constantly being 

559
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,800
developed and adapted. 
And we can draw a parallel to to

560
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,200
our social infrastructure. 
If we find something in our 

561
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,240
social infrastructure that has 
not yet reached the decided 

562
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:07,480
level or like something that we 
can develop, we will not create 

563
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,920
a new infrastructure. 
We will work with the 

564
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,440
infrastructure that we already 
have. 

565
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,120
We will develop that 
infrastructure. 

566
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:16,800
So that's the reason why I'm 
going to stick with Bitcoin. 

567
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,200
Yeah, I love that. 
I was. 

568
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:27,400
I was looking up a tweet I had 
about because I love the word 

569
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:34,680
discovery too. 
I think it's something like, as 

570
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,280
you said, you know, Bitcoin is 
something that can be only 

571
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,480
discovered once, right? 
Like finite digital scarcity and

572
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:50,080
crypto is an attempt by startups
to have a token fuel a certain 

573
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,360
ecosystem that they're building,
right? 

574
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,080
It's just, it's fine that people
are trying to figure out what 

575
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,400
that could be, but it is a 
totally different thing. 

576
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,320
It's not what Bitcoin is. 
And, and I think it's correct, 

577
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,840
right. 
When you say all the cryptos 

578
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,160
came after Bitcoin, what I got 
from I think it was Jeff Booth, 

579
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,160
he said like when you look at 
like the, you know, the value 

580
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,600
propositions of all these other 
cryptos, it's like we are 

581
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,960
faster. 
We are 100 million trillion, I 

582
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,040
don't know transactions per 
second, blah, blah, blah, but 

583
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,800
they they approach it just from 
the technological aspect, right?

584
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,640
And then for example, when you 
watch the talk by Jack Mahler at

585
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,000
Bitcoin Atlantis, I mentioned 
that a lot on this on the 

586
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,920
podcast, but it's just really 
good talk. 

587
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,840
He actually shares why the 
amount of transaction throughput

588
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:48,320
for Bitcoin is the best one 
because it accounts for, for 

589
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,120
example, the speed of light. 
And why do all the other 

590
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,040
blockchains break is because 
they go faster, like they go 

591
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,800
faster than than the speed of 
the data, basically. 

592
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,160
So the clock, the, the, the, the
speed of the blockchain goes too

593
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,400
fast and then it breaks. 
You know, maybe that's a bit too

594
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,440
technical, but I think it's 
interesting that they focus on 

595
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,680
that part, right, where it's 
more about the security towards 

596
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,280
the future and, and right. 
And so the decentralization and 

597
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,360
the security is, is more 
important than the speed in 

598
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,840
Bitcoin. 
And when people say, yeah, but 

599
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,560
it should be faster, etcetera, 
because Visa is a blah blah, 

600
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:33,760
then you're comparing like a 
layer 6-7 or eight of a monetary

601
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,800
system with something that is 
layer one. 

602
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,960
And if it's layer layer 1, the 
eventual layer one of the 

603
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,200
current money system is gold. 
And so if we compare it to gold 

604
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,080
as like the base layer of all 
the money in the world, then 

605
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,240
it's, yeah, it's ridiculously 
more superior, right? 

606
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:53,840
Was it? 
Was it? 

607
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,800
Jack then made a like a keynote 
about this or. 

608
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,560
Yeah. 
I need to see that I haven't 

609
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:02,840
seen. 
Yeah, you have to watch that. 

610
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,400
For me, in 10 years of Bitcoin, 
that's the best explainer I've 

611
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,640
probably seen in like an hour. 
But, you know, I think the 

612
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,280
biggest difference is Bitcoin is
a discovery of finite digital 

613
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,640
scarcity and crypto, you know, 
they, these are tokens to fuel 

614
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,760
an ecosystem, you know, fine 
devil in that, but it's just 

615
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,680
different. 
It's just a different thing. 

616
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:26,760
And you know, it's, it's, it's 
fine. 

617
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,880
And So what when you, when you 
talk to people right, or, or you

618
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,000
see comments you know, or just 
how you look at how people are 

619
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,160
discovering Bitcoin, what do you
think is the main thing people 

620
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:43,400
need to learn or unlearn before 
they can understand Bitcoin? 

621
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:54,720
Oh, that's a good question. 
I would say that they, they need

622
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:58,840
to, they need to learn like as I
already said about the problem, 

623
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,560
they, they need to understand 
the problem. 

624
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:09,480
And to do that, like I, I think 
the most of the times it will 

625
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,960
come to you. 
Like I come came to the 

626
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,520
realization that when I talk to 
people, I'm like, OK, you don't 

627
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,680
get this now and that's OK 
because you will get it someday.

628
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,600
You will learn about Bitcoin 
whether you like it or not, 

629
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,920
because Bitcoin is here to stay.
But to learn or unlearn, I would

630
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:36,120
say unlearn your mindset, change
your mindset, be more 

631
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,320
optimistic. 
I think that's so many people, 

632
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,000
they're, they're working like 
this and they like, they will 

633
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,040
never grasp it because they 
already made-up their mind. 

634
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,920
Well, I think that's a team that
comes back a lot, right? 

635
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:57,400
Like many Bitcoiners believe 
that Bitcoin turns nihilism into

636
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,680
optimism, you know, and I think 
kind of like how I view Gen. 

637
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,440
Z from a, from a distance, 
right, is that. 

638
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,480
I kind of see it as like a 
barbell, like one side is just 

639
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,520
really nihilistic. 
There's nothing in the middle. 

640
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,280
And then there's like the other 
side that's super optimistic, 

641
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:17,680
right? 
And they're using the Internet 

642
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,080
to learn and they know 
everything is free. 

643
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:25,680
You know that they they are 
totally using that opportunity 

644
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,240
to develop themselves. 
And so I don't see a lot like 

645
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,520
like in the. 
Middle we compared those kind of

646
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:36,160
people, persons like who moved 
the easiest in today's society, 

647
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,720
the people that wants to learn 
about AI and the people that 

648
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,080
wants to learn about new 
technology and the people that 

649
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,240
wants to learn about Internet. 
So do yourself a favour and try 

650
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:46,920
to think outside your little 
box. 

651
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,960
You'll thank me later. 
Yeah, 100% agree. 

652
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,800
But like, is this what you also 
see like let's focus on, let's 

653
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,880
say your generation? 
Like, is it kind of like just 

654
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,360
those two parts? 
You know, are a lot of people 

655
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,080
nihilistic? 
You think like, are they not 

656
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,480
enthusiastic about the future, 
you know, like they're negative 

657
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,480
etcetera. 
Or do you think it's not that 

658
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:15,680
bad? 
I don't know. 

659
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,920
Well, I, I wouldn't say that 
it's that bad. 

660
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,280
I think it's mostly in like the 
our knowledge. 

661
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:29,920
Still, it's like people will 
think like think that Bitcoin 

662
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,600
isn't a solution because they 
don't know any better. 

663
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,080
But have you ever talked to to 
person that choose to be against

664
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,080
Bitcoin and that fully 
understands it? 

665
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:43,080
No. 
No, me neither. 

666
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,920
Yeah. 
That's also an interesting thing

667
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,920
I've noticed. 
I think a lot of people think 

668
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,280
the same, right? 
Like that's what Saylor says 

669
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,720
about there are no informed 
critiques, but that is kind of 

670
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:57,360
it, right? 
Like change, you said change 

671
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,560
your mindset. 
I usually say like, think for 

672
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,840
yourself, Right? 
It's yeah, when you ask a 

673
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,840
question to someone and they 
reply, you know, you're a white 

674
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,440
person, you could ask them why, 
right? 

675
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,560
And I think, I think that is 
all, you know, that's always 

676
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,600
like a good way to kind of get a
feeling for how, yeah, how 

677
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,040
someone's mindset is, right or, 
or how they think. 

678
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,240
But also, you know, I think many
people who realize, many people 

679
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:30,120
realize that, like once they 
understand Bitcoin, you know, 

680
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,480
and they see a lot of nonsense 
about it from these critics, for

681
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,960
example, in the media, right? 
Just nonsense pieces in serious 

682
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,960
newspapers or media, for 
example, right? 

683
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,280
They start questioning like all 
these other subjects that are 

684
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,320
portrayed in the media, right? 
Like, OK, well, there's this one

685
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,680
topic that I know a lot about, 
and people write nonsense about 

686
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,120
that, you know, what else is 
nonsense? 

687
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,760
Has this also been your 
experience? 

688
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,520
I think so, or I know that it is
like that. 

689
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,880
I think media is so scary, to be
honest. 

690
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,600
And I talked to many of my 
friends and my family and they 

691
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,080
don't understand the problem 
with this. 

692
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,320
They think that like Sweden is 
very uncensored when it comes to

693
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,120
how we share information, but 
it's not. 

694
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,800
And this applies to so much more
than Bitcoin. 

695
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:28,400
Like, I won't go into politics 
in this, but the way that we in 

696
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:35,000
Sweden approach certain things 
is not at all consistent to to 

697
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,280
how we see things like in the 
rest of the world. 

698
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,200
And that makes you suddenly 
start to question, is this true 

699
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,880
or like, is this not true? 
I think. 

700
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,920
And like, the good thing with 
that is that today's generation,

701
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,920
we go a lot on Twitter, we go a 
lot on Tiktok, we are a lot on 

702
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,920
Instagram. 
So we got the news from other 

703
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,240
things than watching the TV 
during night. 

704
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,680
But like you, you need to be on 
your tip of toes there as well. 

705
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,240
Like especially when it when you
hear news from social media, 

706
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,200
check your resources. 
But like honestly, I think that 

707
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,880
you learn more today you you get
more correct information if you 

708
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,760
check your social media than if 
you go on your 8:00 get TV news.

709
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,680
Yeah, that's funny, right? 
But like what you mentioned 

710
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,200
about your friends and your 
family, like they, they don't, 

711
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:37,040
they don't see it right. 
Maybe well, if they watch like 

712
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,200
traditional media, which is 
funny by the way, the word 

713
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,720
traditional media, like there's 
people online that have more 

714
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:48,400
reach than traditional media. 
But I I think the think for 

715
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:54,360
yourself, part of which you 
know, a mindset change has to 

716
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,040
come first before you can think 
for yourself, obviously, right 

717
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:57,760
for. 
Sure. 

718
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,480
That is already something where 
people struggle, right? 

719
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:07,240
Like just the entire concept of,
OK, I get my information about 

720
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,040
inflation, you know, let's keep 
it at, at the, the, the 

721
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,680
economics part. 
Like I keep, I keep my, I get my

722
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,520
information about inflation 
from, you know, the TV at at 

723
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,440
8:00 PM, right? 
Like what you then do is like 

724
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:30,160
you just accept that you have no
clue how it actually works. 

725
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:36,960
You give responsibility to other
people to tell you what you 

726
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,000
should believe, right? 
And then you just accept that 

727
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:45,200
without any questions, right? 
Maybe even when it doesn't make 

728
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,120
a lot of sense to you or you 
don't even think about it. 

729
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,760
And you're just like, oh, well, 
OK, you know, that's it. 

730
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,600
I'll, you know, buy less chicken
this month or bread or whatever.

731
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,760
Like you. 
You just position yourself as, I

732
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,320
don't know, like like a helpless
person, right? 

733
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,680
Like, yeah, I can't do anything 
about it, right? 

734
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:11,440
But like these other people that
decide for you, are they smarter

735
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,080
than you? 
Do they have more? 

736
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,400
I don't know, why do they have 
more power over you to tell you 

737
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,960
these things and help, you know,
make you adjust your behavior in

738
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,120
your own life and change your 
decisions, all these things, 

739
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:24,920
right? 
Just that question like you 

740
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,240
don't even have to talk about 
Bitcoin and how is the solution 

741
00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:30,320
like just that when you talk 
about that, that's already like 

742
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,920
a really hard conversation for 
people because they'll be like, 

743
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,080
Oh well, we live in Sweden or 
the Netherlands. 

744
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,360
Like what are you complaining 
about? 

745
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,760
It's still fine and no problems 
and blah, blah. 

746
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,200
Which in part obviously is true,
but that should not be a reason 

747
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:44,680
for you to not think for 
yourself. 

748
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:50,680
Yeah, that that's so true. 
And like in, in Sweden, I 

749
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,720
wouldn't say that like we like, 
I question everything now, 

750
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:58,040
especially when we're having a 
conversation about this. 

751
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:04,120
But I think like the biggest 
problem is how we censor things 

752
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,400
that happen outside Sweden or 
like inside Sweden as well. 

753
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:13,680
I had a chat with, with another 
Bitcoiner and he asked me, he 

754
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,000
sent me an article and he said 
he, he, he kind of said, like, 

755
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,720
how, how is it for you in 
Sweden? 

756
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:20,880
I hope you're taking care of 
you. 

757
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,520
And I just opened that and I was
like, what, what, what's going 

758
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,200
on? 
What is this? 

759
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:29,320
And it was an article about some
policemen in in Sweden. 

760
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,200
They went out and and they said 
that we can no longer protect 

761
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,000
the women in our country. 
And I am a woman in my country. 

762
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,800
And that information didn't 
reach me at all. 

763
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,800
Well. 
Yeah, that's strange. 

764
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:51,120
It's it's crazy. 
With that being said, I think 

765
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:57,480
that Sweden is a safe country. 
Like I'm not bothered at all so.

766
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,080
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. 
I, I because I also wanted to 

767
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,760
ask you a question. 
I saw in another podcast you 

768
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:10,480
drew a comparison between the 
matrix and the field system, 

769
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,040
which I like. 
I talk about the matrix a lot. 

770
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:18,960
I I see it also as the matrix. 
Can you explain why you compare 

771
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:25,800
it and how do you see people 
like waking up to the fact you 

772
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,240
know that they could step out of
all of this with with Bitcoin? 

773
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,320
I would say that the Fiat system
is the matrix, like Bitcoin is 

774
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,000
not the matrix. 
The Fiat system is the matrix, 

775
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,480
but Bitcoin is the thing that 
can like that opens the door 

776
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,000
that gives you a way to get out 
of the matrix. 

777
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:50,200
And this like, drives me back to
the knowledge like, again, as I 

778
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,280
told you, did you ever talk to 
someone that used to be against 

779
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,240
Bitcoin and that truly 
understands it? 

780
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,920
No. 
So as Morphe says, he says in 

781
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,800
the matrix, he says something 
like, when you're inside the 

782
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,920
Matrix, you look around and you 
will see businessmen, teachers, 

783
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,000
lawyers, You will see people 
that we're trying to save. 

784
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,640
But until then, like these 
people are just a part of the 

785
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,240
system, which more or less makes
them their our enemy. 

786
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:25,080
And most of these people are so 
invested in the matrix, so they 

787
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:30,040
will fight to predict it. 
And like for me, sure, that 

788
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,920
sounds like ignorance. 
But like the ignorance that we 

789
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,040
hear from from media that 
Bitcoin is speculative and 

790
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,800
Bitcoin is for criminals and 
Bitcoin is bad for the 

791
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,920
environment. 
But that's because they didn't 

792
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,000
understand Bitcoin. 
They're so stuck, they still 

793
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,960
stuck in the matrix. 
So of course, like if if media 

794
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,240
is picturing our like society 
and our environment and, and, 

795
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:55,200
and Bitcoin that Bitcoin is bad 
for this and it's bad for this 

796
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,280
and Bitcoin is doing that, yeah,
we will start to think the 

797
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,880
people around us will start to 
think that that's our reality. 

798
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,640
So the Fiat system is the matrix
and Bitcoin is what opens the 

799
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,720
door. 
Yeah. 

800
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,480
So what do you think? 
Yeah, I it's funny, though, like

801
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,720
while you're talking and 
thinking about this video of 

802
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,120
what's his name you follow 
Harare that went like viral at 

803
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,800
this week. 
You know, the the the writer. 

804
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,800
Did you see him? 
No, I didn't. 

805
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,920
See where he said about, you 
know, I have a problem with 

806
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,120
Bitcoin. 
It's a system of distrust. 

807
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,520
We should trust human 
organizations and all these 

808
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,640
things. 
And you need to send me this. 

809
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,960
Yeah, I'll send it to you on 
Twitter. 

810
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,600
And it's just like all the 
Bitcoin people replying like 

811
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:52,200
you, you turn this around like 
it's not distrust, it's honesty,

812
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,880
right? 
Like we cannot trust ourselves 

813
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,160
and we don't want to be forced 
to trust other people. 

814
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,520
Why isn't there a system where 
we don't have to trust anyone? 

815
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,640
How can you be against that, 
right? 

816
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:10,280
How can you be against a system 
where nobody has to trust each 

817
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,160
other, but we can still all 
benefit from it, right? 

818
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,680
And you don't have to trust. 
You can verify it. 

819
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,320
You can verify how it works. 
And nobody's an owner and it's 

820
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:20,760
not a pyramid scheme and blah, 
blah, blah. 

821
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,760
Like all these things like this 
is the, this is the most 

822
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,200
ultimately transparent thing 
that has ever existed. 

823
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,800
Yeah. 
And the reason that people don't

824
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,680
get that is because they're 
stuck in the matrix. 

825
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,520
They don't know this. 
They need the knowledge. 

826
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,960
Correct. 
It sounds too good to be true 

827
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,200
because there's nothing else 
like it, right? 

828
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,440
I think I think that is the core
of it right. 

829
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,600
So once you tell this people be 
like no, it cannot be that 

830
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:51,080
right, But that's the nihilistic
ego talking because you are not 

831
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:56,520
used to you don't there are no 
mutually beneficial games in 

832
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,440
this world. 
It's all 0 sum, right? 

833
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,840
And so when you share like, OK, 
there could be the system where 

834
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,960
you can trust all the other, you
know, you trust other people 

835
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,960
because, well, you don't have to
trust others, right? 

836
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,960
That's just so foreign to them. 
And I, I think the matrix in 

837
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,280
that sense is, is, is a good 
example because they don't even 

838
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:23,960
know that they are in there, 
right? 

839
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,760
They don't even know there's an 
alternative system. 

840
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,840
And when you illustrate that 
system, they're like, no, that 

841
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,120
sounds like fans. 
That cannot be true. 

842
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,520
And then, you know, it stops 
there, of course, because that 

843
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,080
is where the imagination stops. 
But I like that you said before,

844
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,120
like you're a curious person. 
I, I think I'm also a really 

845
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,360
curious person, but I think 
that's we are lucky that we got 

846
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,840
that trait, I think, right, 
because that is, well, I was 

847
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,280
also always annoying child in 
the classroom. 

848
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,840
Why is this? 
Why is that? 

849
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Can you explain this to me? 
That doesn't really make sense, 

850
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,680
you know, And all the other kids
were always like, there's a 

851
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,840
Brahmagan with all these 
questions and but they thought I

852
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,200
was annoying. 
But I always thought, no, I'm 

853
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,680
actually interested. 
Like tell me like I'm asking 

854
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,680
questions because I'm listening 
and I'm actually interested. 

855
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,360
Like, what are you, what are you
talking about? 

856
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,680
And I always felt that, always 
felt that way. 

857
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,040
But it's nice to like hear from 
other people that they're the 

858
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:22,960
same, like you have the same 
issues. 

859
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:28,320
Look, look. 
Where they brought us to be 

860
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,880
curious. 
Yeah, and I think, you know, and

861
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,400
you also shared a bit about this
I saw in another podcast. 

862
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,720
But like for me, it really frees
your minds. 

863
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,480
Like you can, you know, you can 
trust yourself, you know, you 

864
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,720
did the work. 
You know, you can adopt another 

865
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:49,200
system that is carried by, well,
computing power, but also all 

866
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,600
these other people that are also
adopting this, right? 

867
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,880
And I think that's a great, 
great feeling that that clarity,

868
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,280
right? 
And so I wanted to ask you also 

869
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,280
about like one of my favorite 
topics in Bitcoin is about like 

870
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,600
the spiritual journey that it 
invites you on. 

871
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:11,120
Have you also experienced this? 
That's, this is so interesting. 

872
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:17,160
It really is because I've become
so much more spiritual, but that

873
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:22,920
journey like lays on top of my 
Bitcoin journey or like they, it

874
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,040
happened in the same time, like 
during the same time. 

875
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,960
And it wasn't until Bitcoin 
Atlantis where I really 

876
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:36,640
understood that, OK, maybe this 
side of me has everything to do 

877
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,960
with Bitcoin. 
Because when when I was in 

878
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,360
Madeira, I realized that first 
of all, it was the first time 

879
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,640
where I was in a place where it 
was a lot of other Bitcoiners. 

880
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,040
It was the first time I 
experienced that like being in a

881
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,000
room and everybody loves 
Bitcoin. 

882
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,040
But what else did we have in 
common? 

883
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,560
Like how we picture life and 
like we all had the same 

884
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,760
mindset. 
And that's like that. 

885
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:06,520
That was amazing to see. 
So I really tried to like see 

886
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,600
parallel between them. 
I think that maybe maybe because

887
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,840
Bitcoin is decentralized and it 
offers the form of financial 

888
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:18,320
freedom and independence where 
we take the power from like our 

889
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,600
financial system and put it on 
in our own hands, then that that

890
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,960
will for sure do something for 
you to you. 

891
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:32,000
So I guess maybe that's like 
why? 

892
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:37,480
But it's it's super interesting.
What's like a lesson you've 

893
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,680
learned? 
What's like the main thing? 

894
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,360
Of Bitcoin or. 
Well, this like a spiritual 

895
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:52,760
lesson. 
About the mindset, I would say 

896
00:55:53,840 --> 00:56:01,360
like I, I'm so thankful for my 
mindset and I can find like I 

897
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,840
can find a positive thing in 
every bad situation. 

898
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,280
If something bad is happening to
me, I'm always like, OK, what 

899
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,320
are the like? 
What is universe trying to teach

900
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,240
me now? 
Or like I, I said this example, 

901
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,760
I don't know if it's, it was the
podcast that you were listening 

902
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:24,000
to, but imagine that you're in 
the university and you walk, you

903
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,040
just bought a coffee and you're 
walking in the hallway and you 

904
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,440
spill the coffee all over you, 
all over your clothes. 

905
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,280
Like most of the people would be
pissed. 

906
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:42,400
And I think that's when you 
should just like kind of take a 

907
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,800
moment there and be like, what's
going on? 

908
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,840
I'm in a university. 
I just bought a coffee. 

909
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,920
I can buy a new coffee. 
I, I spilled it all over my 

910
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,320
clothes. 
I'm wearing clothes like I can 

911
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,280
wash my clothes. 
So just the mindset and trust 

912
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,880
your journey. 
Like everything will sell out 

913
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:05,200
for you. 
I really think it will, but if 

914
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,560
it's if we look more more into 
Bitcoin, then I would say that 

915
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:13,040
Bitcoin taught me that the world
is tough, but it's not 

916
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:18,440
unfixable. 
And maybe also it's OK to not 

917
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:23,320
agree on on everything that 
everything has takes time and 

918
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,440
everything has their own time or
like it will fit in in your time

919
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,080
frame. 
So the person that you're 

920
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:34,120
talking to, like they, she or 
he, because eventually they will

921
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,320
another day because Bitcoin 
fixes everything. 

922
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,040
Yeah, I think the. 
The. 

923
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,440
The fact that. 
You know when you do the work to

924
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:52,000
understand that what this is and
what it could bring, right? 

925
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:57,480
And then that there's this whole
other system of not only money, 

926
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:04,240
but also values and spirit in a 
sense, positivity in a sense 

927
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:09,040
also, right? 
That once you get there, before 

928
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,040
you get there, you you're 
everyone fights like this 

929
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,440
personal fight of what? 
How was I raised? 

930
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,240
What was I taught? 
What do I believe? 

931
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,920
What are actually my values? 
What is stuff I have no fucking 

932
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,360
clue about, right that I need to
learn? 

933
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:30,040
Like how did I outsourced by 
responsibility over my life? 

934
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,560
Like those are like like those 
are very hard things to realize 

935
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,760
and realize, comprehend, but 
then also kind of like change 

936
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,680
and actually integrate, right? 
So I think it really humbles 

937
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:48,840
you, this journey and therefore 
it creates a lot of like 

938
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:50,040
gratefulness, right? 
Like. 

939
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,920
That that you're. 
Grateful for the fact that you 

940
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,000
were able to do that or you had 
the time, you know, in, in in a 

941
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,840
small part. 
But then if you extrapolate 

942
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,920
that, then make it bigger, you 
know, then, you know, I think 

943
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,440
the coffee example is funny, but
it's like, yeah, like, what am I

944
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,400
complaining about? 
Yeah, like I have all these 

945
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,200
things. 
Already and I didn't do. 

946
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,080
Anything for it either? 
Yeah, I know, I know. 

947
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,080
And another. 
Example is like, I think like 

948
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:22,080
the way you look at happiness if
if you wake up every day and you

949
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,280
say that I'm happy if I choose 
to be happy. 

950
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,280
Then. 
You will be like even if the 

951
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,480
money in your savings account 
are are tied. 

952
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:37,520
I have this example from when my
parents, they were in Morocco, 

953
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:44,120
Morocco and they, they had a 
guide and she wasn't my age and 

954
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,880
it was so clear that she didn't 
have that much money. 

955
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,320
So my father actually asked her,
what do you do? 

956
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,000
Like like to. 
Do on your on your free. 

957
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,560
Time and she answered that I 
love to go in the garden and 

958
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,920
just read a book because that's 
when I feel the most happiest 

959
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:03,160
and I feel so free. 
And I would say that that is a 

960
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:07,360
girl with a healthy mindset. 
And this is the thing that you 

961
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,320
should be taught in school. 
Because if I asked like some 

962
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:15,840
past classmate that I would have
like that I had, she or he would

963
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,760
probably answer that. 
Summer vacation. 

964
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,520
But my family is not going to 
Spain, so that sucks. 

965
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,120
I need to spend the whole summer
in my country house and that is 

966
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,000
a so unhealthy mindset. 
Like, come on. 

967
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,480
Yeah. 
Well, that's the gratefulness I.

968
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,000
I. 
Talk about right. 

969
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,800
And I think that's also the 
problem what you mentioned in 

970
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,960
the beginning like the whole get
rich quick etcetera, right? 

971
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,040
Like yeah, I don't know what the
quote. 

972
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,320
Is right, but. 
I don't know, something like. 

973
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,960
Quickly gained money is. 
Also quickly lost, right like 

974
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,320
because you didn't work for it 
like you don't you don't even 

975
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,680
understand why you got that 
money, you know and I think that

976
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:01,080
is really important that you 
know if Bitcoin goes to where we

977
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,880
think it's going to go, we're 
going to get rewarded for the 

978
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:09,040
work we did but. 
I don't think there's going to 

979
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,400
be a lot of. 
Bitcoiners that would like, I 

980
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,680
don't know, like get it to, you 
know, blow it all and get like 

981
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,160
hooked on coke and other stuff 
and whatever, and then they have

982
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,000
to go to rehab life. 
You know, I I don't think that's

983
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,880
going to happen happen like 
right, not not like well, the 

984
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,280
crypto examples we we've seen, I
think online, right, but but I 

985
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:36,120
think that is it like the the 
entire like time preference. 

986
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,880
You have. 
You know, the humility, the 

987
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,520
patience, like all these things,
like you actually have to work 

988
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,080
for this, right? 
Yesterday I saw a tweet by 

989
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,480
someone that was really great. 
Like having a hundred Bitcoin in

990
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:55,880
2010 was not special, right? 
Having ten Bitcoin in 2015 was 

991
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,880
not special. 
Or sorry, having a having a 

992
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,240
hundred was special. 
Having ten was special, right? 

993
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:05,560
Now having one is special. 
Having .1 in a few. 

994
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:10,120
Years is. 
Is special, and so nobody. 

995
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,480
Nobody. 
From the early. 

996
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,320
Days maybe a handful of people 
actually have like still all all

997
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,240
that Bitcoin right because it's 
really hard like it's really 

998
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,920
hard to keep it and that is the 
lesson that that you need to 

999
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:28,800
learn is that you become yeah 
more aware of your time and how 

1000
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,840
you spend it and and you know 
how you spend the wealth that 

1001
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,160
you have etcetera. 
And so I think that's kind of 

1002
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,520
like the biggest lesson also 
that that you learn once you 

1003
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,320
adopt Bitcoin is like lower your
time preference, lower, lower, 

1004
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,520
lower, right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1005
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,200
And so. 
How has Bitcoin changed your 

1006
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:53,280
world view as a young person? 
Like you're. 

1007
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,920
You're discovering the world you
know, in a way bigger way. 

1008
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:02,400
Probably than me. 
You know, at your age, like how,

1009
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:10,160
how did it change already? 
A lot like I don't even know how

1010
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:20,560
how to like I I don't know, 
maybe like as you said, to be 

1011
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:25,240
like grateful for what you have 
and to gain hope. 

1012
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,120
Like I think that. 
Many in my generation. 

1013
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,880
We see the future as quite 
hopeless, but this is exactly 

1014
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,960
where like Bitcoin fits so good 
in the picture. 

1015
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:40,320
Because Bitcoin really creates 
hope and like when you least 

1016
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,720
expect it, you will begin to 
understand that aha, Bitcoin can

1017
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:50,080
actually give that little girl 
in in Africa a chance for a real

1018
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,840
life where she can handle her 
own money. 

1019
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:58,520
But it can also make make my my 
grandchildren buy an apartment 

1020
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,440
in Stockholm in in the city 
instead of like losing all of 

1021
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:07,040
their money to inflation. 
And Bitcoin also means that that

1022
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,200
like the war, that just 
happened. 

1023
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,280
Between those two. 
Countries, it wouldn't break out

1024
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,960
if we had Bitcoin as a as a 
currency because they need to 

1025
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,760
print money to to be able to 
afford that war. 

1026
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:30,440
So I, I guess, I guess that 
just, I don't know, see, see the

1027
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:36,240
world in, in, in other eyes and 
in a bigger picture, yeah. 

1028
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:42,320
I like that you said hope I. 
Think again. 

1029
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,720
This is something like. 
That's then like a big word, 

1030
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:45,960
right? 
Like why do you need hope? 

1031
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,520
You live, you live in Sweden, 
right? 

1032
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:48,840
Like why do you why do you need 
hope? 

1033
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,520
But. 
I don't know. 

1034
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,240
I don't like, I don't like it 
when people would. 

1035
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,520
Talk like that, but you know 
more more as an example, but I I

1036
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:02,240
think what it gives you is that 
whatever you spend your time and

1037
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,640
energy on, you know to create 
value and then get value in 

1038
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,520
return. 
Bitcoin is the only thing to 

1039
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,240
ever. 
Guard. 

1040
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:19,800
That reward into the future to 
make it not devalue into the 

1041
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,280
future so that you can spend it 
on whatever you want in the 

1042
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,960
future, right? 
Building a family or a house or,

1043
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:27,880
you know, whatever, whatever you
want. 

1044
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:32,080
And I think that when you say 
hope, that is what I kind of 

1045
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:36,680
like think about that you you 
can create the time and dust the

1046
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,600
space to figure out what am I 
here to do. 

1047
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,160
What am I here? 
To add to the world, right 

1048
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:48,160
whatever it is you you want to 
do instead of kind of like being

1049
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,400
forced into a job month to 
month, you getting paid nine to 

1050
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,080
five, you have no clue what. 
You're doing. 

1051
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,800
Why you're doing it? 
You know, I think that is the 

1052
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:57,880
hope. 
All right. 

1053
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,080
Well, that's what I think of 
when when you say hope, but 

1054
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,000
yeah, yeah. 
Interesting. 

1055
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,280
Again, like such. 
A big word, like Jeff Booth 

1056
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,960
talked to me about the inflation
and then he said like, yeah, 

1057
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,320
inflation is theft. 
That I think like, yeah, I 

1058
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,200
agree. 
But if you use those words, you 

1059
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:14,800
know, for a lot of people, it's 
then already such a difficult 

1060
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,800
conversation, right? 
And so I think it's nice to 

1061
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,360
reflect on that to also figure 
out like, how can we, you know, 

1062
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,200
tune our story a bit better also
to reach people. 

1063
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,720
So I want to ask you two last, 
last questions. 

1064
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,440
What advice would you give 
someone from your generation, 

1065
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,800
Gen. 
Z or Millennial when they're 

1066
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,080
just starting out to explore 
Bitcoin? 

1067
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:40,600
What would be the number one 
thing? 

1068
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:45,760
I would say like. 
Ask yourself. 

1069
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,560
Why? 
Why do you want to learn? 

1070
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,960
Like where do you see the 
important thing in this and why 

1071
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:57,880
is this important to you? 
Find the value in why Bitcoin is

1072
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:03,560
needed, but find it yourself and
also like understand that you 

1073
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,760
don't need to know everything. 
You don't understand what's 

1074
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,080
happening when you make a phone 
call to the other side of the 

1075
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:16,240
world, but it works, right? 
So and you use your phone like 

1076
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:21,320
everyday and so just trust the 
technology because the important

1077
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,920
thing isn't how it works. 
It is that it works. 

1078
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:29,080
Love that. 
And. 

1079
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,600
Contrasting to. 
The phone you use every day. 

1080
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,680
You can actually if you would 
want to, you can verify how 

1081
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:36,640
Bitcoin works. 
Right? 

1082
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,560
Exactly. 
Maybe that's also one of the 

1083
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:39,480
points. 
Yeah. 

1084
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:41,880
Don't trust verify. 
Exactly. 

1085
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,120
All right, last. 
Question and I ask everyone the 

1086
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,240
same question. 
What is a core belief that you 

1087
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:53,480
will never let go? 
Back to the. 

1088
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:58,040
Mindset again. 
Again, maybe that you, you will 

1089
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,560
attract the same energy that you
give away. 

1090
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,840
Like, why do you think that 
Bitcoiners are like the happiest

1091
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,600
people on the planet? 
I, I would say that probably 

1092
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,080
because we all look at the 
future with hope and because we 

1093
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,000
all like we send out and we 
collect positive energy. 

1094
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,279
If we're all like, if our 
vibrations are here, then we 

1095
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:22,479
will meet others that are here. 
So like, and, and this like this

1096
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,000
mindset, it needs to start 
within yourself. 

1097
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,160
You are your thoughts and you 
are your feelings. 

1098
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,520
And yes, you can control them 
because you are them like you 

1099
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,920
are hope. 
And I like, I strongly believe 

1100
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,640
in in energies and in and in 
mindset. 

1101
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:43,800
So be optimistic, think big and 
trust that like your way, your 

1102
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,160
Rd. that will roll out in front 
of you. 

1103
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,319
Because when when you have that 
mindset then then like your 

1104
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:54,000
dream will eventually become 
your reality. 

1105
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:58,319
Love that. 
That's a great, great ending. 

1106
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:02,160
Thank you so much for this 
conversation. 

1107
01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:05,040
Thank you. 
I I will make sure to link to 

1108
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:07,640
your Twitter and TikTok so 
people can follow you. 

1109
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,000
And yeah, thanks again. 
Thank you so much for having me.

1110
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,680
Cheers, I hope you enjoyed this 
episode. 

1111
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,680
If you did, it would be amazing 
if you could rate, review and 

1112
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,240
subscribe on the podcast 
platform of your choice. 

1113
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,240
It will help us educate more 
millennials on the importance of

1114
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,279
Bitcoin. 
You can follow and connect with 

1115
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:28,840
me on Twitter. 
I'm Bram K that's at BR AM K, 

1116
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,279
and if you are or know someone 
who has an interesting 

1117
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:33,720
perspective on Bitcoin that's 
worth sharing, hit me up. 

1118
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:35,840
I read and reply to every single
message. 

1119
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,640
I appreciate your support and 
hope you'll be here for the next

1120
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:40,080
episodes. 
Thanks for listening. 

1121
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:40,600
Bye.