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Hey there, this is Brum Constein
and you're listening to Bitcoin 

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for Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 

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most relevant technology that 
you should understand and adopt.

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In this episode I'm joined by 
Terence Michael. 

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He's an Emmy nominated TV and 
film producer and has produced 

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over 20 movies and 30 TV shows. 
I saw you did the Spencer movie.

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I love that. 
I think that's really, I think 

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that's really old. 
But I like that, yeah. 

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Yeah, yeah, it is. 
Well, you also operate several 

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businesses. 
You invest in real estate and 

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consult with entrepreneurs on 
how to cultivate their skills. 

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But also, over the last six 
years, you've morphed into a 

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hardcore bitcoiner and most 
recently wrote your third book 

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called Proof of Money, The Big 
Idea Behind Bitcoin and What You

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Don't Know About Why You Need 
It. 

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I love that title. 
Welcome man. 

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Welcome. 
Thank you. 

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Thanks for having me. 
Yeah, thanks. 

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Thanks for being on. 
Like I loved your tweet. 

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So I thought I need to reach out
to this guy and and then I saw 

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your book. 
So that's that's even a better, 

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a better reason. 
And even your Twitter name is 

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not Terence Michael. 
It's proof of money. 

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Where did that come from? 
Well, I've just figured, you 

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know what? 
If I just market it the same as 

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the book, it's gonna be so much 
easier, right? 

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It's like just they say to have 
the same handle across 

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everything. 
And I don't. 

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But it doesn't need to match my 
Instagram and all those other 

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things. 
Is that also when you started 

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like Twitter? 
When the when the book came out.

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Yeah, I mean, well, I signed up 
way before like we all did, but 

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it just sat dormant with six 
followers. 

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And then when the book came out,
you know, and I was lurking like

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all of us just listening and you
know, reading tweets from from 

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Sailor and you know all of the 
big accounts. 

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And when the book came out, I 
said now it's time for me to 

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engage. 
Now it's time for me to share 

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and jump on the other side of 
this and start educating because

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I saw sort of where. 
The holes were where, you know, 

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sort of the the technical 
analysts, you know, people like 

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Greg Foss, the the economists 
like Safe, a Dean. 

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All these people were coming 
from their approaches, which 

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sort of were in the bucket of 
professional legacy or 

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traditional finance. 
But a lot of people aren't. 

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A lot of people have been 
dabbling with. 

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Meme stocks and you know, at the
water cooler and hey, I've got 

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Tesla, I've got Apple, What, You
know, what do you have? 

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Or they want to try to get into 
real estate. 

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And you know, so many people are
chasing money without knowing 

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why they're chasing money and 
getting into things, trying to 

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have a second or a third job in 
areas that they're not experts 

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in. 
And I thought, well, wait a 

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minute. 
There's a way that I could write

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to this and connect why it is 
they want more money? 

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Where did it? 
What it is that their skills are

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and how they can stick with 
their skills, their bucket and 

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and their circle of competence 
without taking on so much risk. 

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You know, like why become a, you
know, landlord if you don't 

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really know how to work on homes
and you don't want to deal with 

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tenants and the toilets and the 
trash, right. 

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And and why? 
Why? 

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You know. 
Well, first of all, you know 

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why? 
Get into I mean, it's like, so 

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your podcast is for millennials,
right? 

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It's like everyone compares, you
know, Bitcoin to gold, but I 

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don't know any millennials that 
own gold. 

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You know, maybe me neither. 
No, that's a good point. 

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Yeah. 
Maybe there's some in jewelry or

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maybe they got some inherited 
from a gram or a grandpa, But 

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it's like, I get it and it makes
sense when you know, the boomers

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are like, hey, look, you guys 
all like gold because we've gone

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through. 
Economic times in the past where

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we need to have a hard money, 
the governments are inflating. 

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So great, let's come. 
It's digital gold. 

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I get it. 
That makes sense. 

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But it's just the easiest 
analogy to make, right? 

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It's the easiest analogy, but 
another easy analogy that 

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millennials get is the Internet.
You know, I mean, it really is 

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because Bitcoin is really just 
code and where the Internet, 

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sort of. 
Decent, decentralized 

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information. 
You know, Bitcoin is just 

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decentralizing value. 
It's providing it to everybody. 

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And that's what the Internet 
does. 

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I mean, people forget that the 
Internet hasn't changed since 

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the 1960s. 
When it started, it was just an 

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academic and military 
communication system, right? 

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It. 
And that's all it still is. 

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It's very slow. 
It's very clunky. 

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It has not been updated. 
But because the foundation is so

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solid, because it's it's, you 
know, granite and and and not 

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quicksand, everybody can build 
on top of it. 

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We can build skyscrapers. 
We can build businesses. 

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We can build apps. 
And it's like, you know, when 

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the Internet came out, we never 
thought we'd be streaming 

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movies, right? 
It was more like, oh, let me 

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read a movie review, oh, look, 
here's a picture of a cat. 

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But it takes forever to 
download. 

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Click, click, click, click. 
Yeah. 

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You know, so I like to compare 
more of that because so many 

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millennials. 
Want to invest in stocks, but 

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they don't. 
They aren't reading the PE 

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ratios. 
They aren't looking at the 

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earnings. 
They aren't looking at the 

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balance sheets. 
They're just like, oh, Tesla, 

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sounds cool, let me invest in 
Tesla. 

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It's like, now you can invest in
the entire Internet, what the 

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Internet was, but the Internet 
was never investable. 

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You had to take risk on all 
kinds of companies that just 

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like the Ico's of crypto, you 
know? 

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Back then, they were the Ipo's 
on the stock side, you know. 

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So many of those one are like 
95% of those just tanked and 

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unless you could hold on to 
Amazon for the seven or eight 

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years it was under, you were 
never going to come back up. 

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Yeah, so I. 
No. 

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Even though we know Bitcoin is 
so much more than than money, it

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it it represents property and 
ownership and human rights and 

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the separation from state. 
And it's it's a it's a peaceful 

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protest. 
It stands for so many things and

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only, you know, solves the 
energy problems and helps the 

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environment, the climate. 
We know that. 

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But. 
You're talking to millennials 

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and you know you the first place
you have to go is NGU. 

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If you can't start with number, 
go up technology, you're never 

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going to get anybody. 
And you know, it's like if a 

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window, is that about building 
wealth then would you say like, 

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yes, exactly. 
Is that what you think 

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millennials care about in that 
sense? 

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Yes, Well, I think you know. 
So look, we know that the the 

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issue with orange peeling people
with Bitcoin is that you can't 

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just describe this superior 
technology and solution for a 

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problem that they don't think 
exists, right. 

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You can't knock on someone's 
door and say, hey, I want to 

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wash your windows and you brand 
you're looking through your 

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windows and say, well, I can see
through my windows fine. 

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I'm like, no, it's coming 
through in. 

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This. 
But like inflation, there's 

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little bits of dirt every day, 
and just enough that your eyes 

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adjust. 
You get used to it, but 

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suddenly, because it's broken 
money, it's distorting your time

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and your energy. 
Now you're going to have to 

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paint the walls lighter, because
you Why is it darker in this 

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room? 
Now you're adding new lights. 

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Like what you know I need. 
But because you just don't know.

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Because it's it's slow enough, 
right? 

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It's a slowly and this that also
you think I talked about this 

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yesterday and I found it an 
interesting fault. 

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Like, is that also? 
Then, you know, when you say, 

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oh, are my eyes getting worse, 
should I paint my walls? 

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Or like, you know, like you're 
starting to doubt yourself, 

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basically. 
Exactly where the actual 

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representation of the situation 
is that there's something out of

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your control that's influencing 
the things that is, that are in 

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your control, right? 
And then, but if you don't 

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realize that that is actually 
happening, you know you you 

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start thinking about OK, am I 
doing something wrong or am I 

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crazy or? 
That's right, just because you 

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simply don't understand, 
basically. 

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And that's what inflation is 
doing, which the millennial 

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generation is feeling more than 
any generation right now because

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it's like the leak has been so 
slow that we've just accepted 

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it. 
We've just growing up that like,

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oh, you know, when I was a 
little kid, my grandma would 

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say, oh, I'd get a loaf of bread
for $0.10. 

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And it's like, OK, well, you 
know, now that loaf of bread is.

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I don't know. 2-3 dollars or 
whatever it is, Yeah, and you 

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just accept that money goes up. 
But it's like, wait a minute, 

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technology is improving or being
more productive or being more 

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efficient. 
That loaf of bread should cost 

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less. 
Yes, not at least the same. 

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It should not be going up, 
right. 

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We learned this from Jeff Booth 
and the price of tomorrow. 

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And you know, Bitcoin makes our 
world inflationary. 

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Deflationary. 
There's no reason for money to 

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go up, but because the 
government's keep of course 

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putting more money about the 
system under under that, right. 

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Like I also like one of my goals
with this podcast is to find 

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like what are simpler analogies 
or what are like principles we 

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can discover to kind of like 
trigger people. 

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And I think what you said about 
technology is interesting 

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because you would expect that 
any progress in technology would

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make, well, even if you say just
adjacent products or services, 

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you know, whatever that 
technology touches, it should 

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become more commoditized or 
cheaper, You know, the prices 

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should go down, etc. 
Well and if you think about the 

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2000 tech bubble, basically 
right or and now everything 

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should be better. 
But yesterday I saw a chart of 

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British huddle who was showing 
the charge charts of the SP500, 

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NASDAQ, gold and all these 
things in dollar amounts and 

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they all went up and then he 
showed them in money supply. 

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So M2 money supply, everything 
is down. 

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And the most shocking one I saw 
was actually the one of the 

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NASDAQ, right? 
Those are the tech stocks. 

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I think from basic principle you
could argue currently we have 

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better tech than in 2000, right?
Like more valuable tech. 

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I think no one would disagree 
with that. 

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But if you look at the NASDAQ 
versus the money supply, the 

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tech currently is worth less, 
which for me was just a crazy 

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realization because arguably it 
is better like we see it is 

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better, it is more valuable, 
right than 2000, but just 

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because the money is so broken, 
it's not valued as it as it 

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should be and well. 
Yeah, in an analogy that I like 

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to use to say exactly what you 
just said in different terms is 

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that. 
You look at a $500,000 house and

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look at it four years later, 
it's $1,000,000 house. 

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Well, unless that house has the 
utility of it's changed. 

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Unless it's growing a bedroom, 
unless it has just growing more 

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square footage, the utility 
value is is the same. 

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So has. 
So how has it gone up? 

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How's it gone up to $1,000,000? 
It just requires more dollars 

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for the same value because that 
many more dollars are now in the

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system. 
And so of course, and it's also 

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not the case that houses are now
more important than before. 

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It's the same, right? 
That's that's what. 

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You mean is the same, right. 
We're putting a a monetary 

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premium and millennials are are 
some of them are doing this, 

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it's but it's very hard for 
many. 

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It's it's a lot easier for more 
Gen. 

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Xers to do this and of course 
boomers before the Gen. 

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Xers that they're putting 
monetary premiums on this. 

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So they're driving up the prices
without even realizing it 

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because they don't know any 
better. 

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They they earn the money at 
their job. 

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But they're like, how do I 
preserve this? 

227
00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:19,250
I can't hurt all the inflation 
weight. 

228
00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:20,730
I'm going to have to chase it 
with stocks. 

229
00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:22,290
I can no longer chase it with 
bonds. 

230
00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:24,290
Bonds are a losing proposition 
from day one. 

231
00:11:24,490 --> 00:11:27,570
So I'm going to have to go into 
real estate or stocks and that's

232
00:11:27,570 --> 00:11:29,050
where they go. 
But what they don't realize, 

233
00:11:29,050 --> 00:11:32,810
like you just talked about with 
the M2 money supply, yes, in 

234
00:11:32,810 --> 00:11:34,970
dollar terms, these have gone 
straight up. 

235
00:11:35,130 --> 00:11:37,290
But look at the money. 
But the money supply has gone 

236
00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:39,490
up, in fact even higher. 
So it's actually a losing 

237
00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:43,000
proposition, but it means. 
You have to either be an 

238
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,800
accredited investor, a qualified
investor, you have to be a high 

239
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,520
net worth interval. 
You have to have access to all 

240
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,920
of these vehicles that you can 
invest in real estate, in 

241
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,320
artwork, in bridge loans. 
You know, I mean a lot of 

242
00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,240
things. 
My second book I wrote about 

243
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,160
this stuff, right, but it was 
more for accredited investors. 

244
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,560
Unless you were at a certain 
level, you didn't have access to

245
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,750
to the things that. 
You know, the Cantillionaires 

246
00:12:09,070 --> 00:12:11,830
have access to, but you know, 
now for the first time we have 

247
00:12:11,830 --> 00:12:14,230
this egalitarian money that 
everybody on the planet has 

248
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:16,870
access to and at the cost of no 
one else. 

249
00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:20,230
So that's why it's like speaking
to millennials, I like to 

250
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:23,430
approach it from if you're 
looking for your own house, 

251
00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:25,430
that's different. 
I get that, you know, you want 

252
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:26,910
your own house, you want to do 
what you want to it. 

253
00:12:26,910 --> 00:12:29,310
You want to have, you know, 
ownership, if you want to call 

254
00:12:29,310 --> 00:12:30,910
it ownership. 
I put that in quotes because 

255
00:12:30,910 --> 00:12:34,190
it's really just rent rebranded.
But but I get that you want your

256
00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:36,280
own place. 
But if you're going out because 

257
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,160
you want to get Airbnb's and you
want to have, you know, second 

258
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,280
or third houses, and you know 
you think you want to have 

259
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,440
tenants and you think the rent's
going to cover everything, then 

260
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,080
no. 
You can save yourself a lot of 

261
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,800
time and energy. 
Focus on what you do and buy 

262
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,320
Bitcoin because it's the most 
scarce and it's increasingly 

263
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,000
scarce. 
Unlike real estate where more 

264
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,040
can be made of, more stocks can 
be issued, more bonds are 

265
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,440
definitely going to be issued. 
And people say, well, they're 

266
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,040
not making any more land. 
Yeah, but they kind of are, 

267
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,280
because you can build up and 
things can burn down and build 

268
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,280
back up. 
If we lose access to our 

269
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,680
Bitcoin, you never get it back. 
You've just made a great 

270
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:13,600
donation to the network, right? 
So we always say 21 million 

271
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,520
Bitcoin, but realistically 
there's probably 16,500 and 

272
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,680
going lower, right? 
You know, not counting the 

273
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:24,400
boating accidents. 
And so when you say, you know, 

274
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,200
buying quote, UN quote or owning
a house, it's just rent 

275
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,930
reinvented. 
You know, like I understand, I 

276
00:13:30,930 --> 00:13:33,370
understand what you're saying, 
but I also at the same time 

277
00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:38,770
think you should have a certain 
amount of understanding of money

278
00:13:38,770 --> 00:13:42,490
and finance until you understand
what you just said. 

279
00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:45,930
Sure. 
Like what is the, what is the 

280
00:13:45,930 --> 00:13:50,210
biggest thing you think people 
need to learn or or unlearn in 

281
00:13:50,210 --> 00:13:53,410
order to. 
Yeah, kind of, I always say like

282
00:13:53,410 --> 00:13:56,170
open the doors in their mind to 
explore further, right. 

283
00:13:56,170 --> 00:13:59,340
Like, I understand that. 
At least that's how I see it. 

284
00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:04,980
You know, like millennials grew 
up in the best time anyone has 

285
00:14:05,020 --> 00:14:07,740
ever had, especially in the 
Western world, right. 

286
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:10,500
Like, I understand my own 
privilege there. 

287
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:13,540
But yeah, like there was money, 
there was food, there was 

288
00:14:13,540 --> 00:14:16,660
running water. 
Like, not like, you know, there 

289
00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:20,140
was nothing going on, basically.
But but now you are confronted 

290
00:14:20,140 --> 00:14:24,580
with a world or a financial 
system that's just works in a 

291
00:14:24,580 --> 00:14:27,140
certain way. 
But you have no clue about it, 

292
00:14:27,140 --> 00:14:30,500
so you have to learn about it. 
That's what I think. 

293
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:33,420
But like, what do you think is 
the most most important thing 

294
00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:36,220
people should yeah, learn, 
unlearn, or see. 

295
00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:39,740
I think in the simplest of 
terms, it comes down to 

296
00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:42,260
inflation. 
But people don't really 

297
00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:43,940
understand inflation. 
They think they understand 

298
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:46,620
inflation. 
And so I try to describe it. 

299
00:14:46,620 --> 00:14:48,980
I like to describe it. 
I have this model that I use 

300
00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:52,420
with a pizza, OK? 
And I say look are. 

301
00:14:53,270 --> 00:14:58,470
Our entire economy is this pizza
and pretend, Graham, you have 

302
00:14:58,870 --> 00:15:03,150
one slice of this 10 slice pizza
and I have one slice of this 10 

303
00:15:03,150 --> 00:15:06,110
slice pizza, right? 
So you own 10% of the network, 

304
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:09,750
everything that you've worked 
for, all your education, the 

305
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:14,150
sacrifices that you've made, 
learning, schooling, everything 

306
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:17,230
that you've done. 
You now have 10% of this entire 

307
00:15:17,310 --> 00:15:19,670
network because you have one 
slice and I have one slice. 

308
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:22,510
Well. 
The society that we live in, the

309
00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:24,950
government, of course, because 
they want to pay for their debt,

310
00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:27,830
they want to pay for their wars,
whatever taxes are unpopular, 

311
00:15:28,070 --> 00:15:30,590
they need to inflate. 
Well, when they inflate, they're

312
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:33,870
not bringing in another pizza. 
This is the part where people 

313
00:15:33,870 --> 00:15:35,750
don't get to like, oh, we just 
have more pizza. 

314
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:37,510
It's not more pizza. 
Yeah, that's. 

315
00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:41,150
They're reslicing our current 
pizza because those are all the 

316
00:15:41,150 --> 00:15:43,830
product that pizza represents 
all the products and the 

317
00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:46,430
services in the economy, right? 
That's the GDP. 

318
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:51,390
So unless the government's which
has which has a a border 

319
00:15:51,390 --> 00:15:52,550
somewhere like. 
Right. 

320
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:54,950
There's a finite amount of goods
and services, right. 

321
00:15:54,950 --> 00:15:57,030
We, we obviously have to work 
proof of work, but the 

322
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:59,470
government is proof of steak. 
So they, they come in and they 

323
00:15:59,470 --> 00:16:02,750
reslice this pizza and now we 
have 20 slices, right. 

324
00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:07,910
So now since they've resliced 
it, Bran, you only have remember

325
00:16:07,910 --> 00:16:11,990
10% of this network, but so now 
that you have one slice of 20, 

326
00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:14,950
you've just been reduced to 5% 
of the network. 

327
00:16:15,710 --> 00:16:18,550
You have half the amount of 
calories. 

328
00:16:18,810 --> 00:16:20,730
Half the amount of goods of this
pizza. 

329
00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:23,610
Even though you technically have
one slice right, it's still 

330
00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:26,010
called $1.00 one slice and I now
have one. 

331
00:16:26,010 --> 00:16:27,250
I love this. 
This is great. 

332
00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:29,810
Yeah. 
Because now my own understanding

333
00:16:29,810 --> 00:16:32,890
was also more pizza. 
So this is this is really good, 

334
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:35,650
yeah. 
So now let's say that I make 

335
00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:39,170
swimming pools and you and I had
a deal where I want want you to 

336
00:16:39,170 --> 00:16:41,330
pay me one slice of pizza for 
the swimming pool. 

337
00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:43,490
And so you come to me now with 
your half. 

338
00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:44,770
It's half. 
It's smaller. 

339
00:16:44,770 --> 00:16:47,090
It's 5%, but it's one slice. 
Yeah. 

340
00:16:47,330 --> 00:16:50,110
And I say, well, wait a minute. 
Me building the swimming pool, I

341
00:16:50,110 --> 00:16:52,710
know what I needed to feed my 
family and I needed the amount 

342
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:55,470
of calories. 
That was the old one slice. 

343
00:16:55,470 --> 00:16:57,750
So you know what, bran, I want 2
slices from you. 

344
00:16:58,430 --> 00:17:01,950
So that's why your swimming pool
now is going to cost 2 instead 

345
00:17:01,950 --> 00:17:03,830
of 1. 
Because when the government 

346
00:17:03,830 --> 00:17:05,750
inflates, that's the part people
don't get. 

347
00:17:05,869 --> 00:17:08,349
They're not really pouring more 
dollars in. 

348
00:17:08,589 --> 00:17:11,550
They're slicing up the dollars. 
And so you think there's more 

349
00:17:11,550 --> 00:17:15,300
dollars? 
Because the value the the goods 

350
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:16,660
and services have remained the 
same. 

351
00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:18,700
Now if the government was 
actually so that is the 

352
00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:21,460
dilution, that's the debasement,
the slicing, right? 

353
00:17:21,460 --> 00:17:25,380
Basement the slicing asking for 
more slices is the inflation. 

354
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:28,260
That's right, because they're 
just coming in and slicing what 

355
00:17:28,260 --> 00:17:31,180
we currently have. 
So when they come in to inflate 

356
00:17:31,180 --> 00:17:33,860
and you know let's say they put 
all that, I mean when the when 

357
00:17:33,860 --> 00:17:37,550
the pool guy says now I want 2 
slices, that's the inflation, 

358
00:17:37,550 --> 00:17:38,350
right? 
Because that is. 

359
00:17:38,350 --> 00:17:41,150
The two inflation that is that 
is true instead of 1, yes. 

360
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:44,390
Which is really the amount of 
your old one, right? 

361
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:48,230
The government sliced your 10 
sliced pizza into 20, Yeah. 

362
00:17:48,670 --> 00:17:52,270
So I feel like things like that.
You know, there's another, this 

363
00:17:52,270 --> 00:17:53,910
is a more obvious analogy that I
use. 

364
00:17:53,910 --> 00:17:57,270
And that's that, you know, all 
of us that work, we're all paid 

365
00:17:57,270 --> 00:18:00,110
in ice cubes and ice cubes melt,
right. 

366
00:18:00,310 --> 00:18:03,350
So because we're all paid in ice
cubes, we have to quickly get it

367
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:06,270
in the fridge. 
But our fridge. 

368
00:18:06,270 --> 00:18:08,030
The problem with our 
refrigerator is that the 

369
00:18:08,030 --> 00:18:11,390
government turns the temperature
up so it melts. 

370
00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:14,310
It it it. 
We don't melt as much by putting

371
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:16,630
our ice cube in there, but they 
increase it so it's still 

372
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:19,950
melting with bits. 
You want to give it to someone 

373
00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:22,590
else then, right? 
So that's what we have to do 

374
00:18:22,590 --> 00:18:23,870
with. 
So we're constantly having to 

375
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:26,910
earn more ice cubes. 
How can how can I break up this 

376
00:18:26,910 --> 00:18:30,150
ice cube, do something with it, 
Grow the ice cube, get an ice 

377
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:35,100
cube machine rather. 
Then just get a Bitcoin freezer,

378
00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:37,260
right? 
Because if all we're paid in is 

379
00:18:37,340 --> 00:18:39,780
ice cubes and we can't change 
that, I put it in the Bitcoin 

380
00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:42,540
freezer as fast as possible in 
my own self custody. 

381
00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:44,380
I own the key to this fridge. 
Click. 

382
00:18:44,780 --> 00:18:48,580
It's not gonna melt and you who 
don't put it in a Bitcoin 

383
00:18:48,580 --> 00:18:50,140
freezer and yours starts 
melting. 

384
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:55,180
Mine just becomes more valuable 
as the world moves to ice cubes.

385
00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:57,140
Yeah. 
And so if we continue with this 

386
00:18:57,140 --> 00:19:00,420
analogy, I like it, right. 
Why? 

387
00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:04,180
Why does the Bitcoin freezer 
stay at the one at the one 

388
00:19:04,180 --> 00:19:05,420
temperature? 
Right. 

389
00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:08,220
Is that. 
Yeah. 

390
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:11,900
It's because of its fixed 
supply, because it we no more 

391
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:14,860
ice cubes can ever be made, and 
because it's an audible, 

392
00:19:14,860 --> 00:19:17,860
transparent Ledger. 
And we see, in fact, if we take 

393
00:19:17,860 --> 00:19:21,300
that analogy, if we extrapolate 
it further, on the outside of 

394
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:25,660
this fridge is a Ledger that is 
showing exactly every 10 

395
00:19:25,660 --> 00:19:28,060
minutes. 
How it's securing the ice cubes 

396
00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:31,420
and how many ice cubes there are
like right now today in 2024, we

397
00:19:31,420 --> 00:19:35,100
know there's in 2023, excuse me,
we know there's 900 ice cubes 

398
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:38,020
being made a day. 
And we know that after April 

399
00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:41,020
2024, after the Havaning, 
there's going to be 450 ice 

400
00:19:41,020 --> 00:19:42,900
cubes a day. 
And so we know it continues to 

401
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:44,980
shrink. 
And people that lose ice cubes, 

402
00:19:44,980 --> 00:19:48,380
people that are irresponsible 
with ice cubes, they're never 

403
00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:49,460
going to get those ice cubes 
back. 

404
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:53,180
The ice cubes don't go away. 
You know it's the. 

405
00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:55,780
This is maybe splitting hairs, 
but you know, the way I look at 

406
00:19:55,780 --> 00:19:57,860
it is all 21 million Bitcoin are
there. 

407
00:19:57,860 --> 00:19:59,620
They were all put there on day 
one. 

408
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:04,340
Yeah, we just continue to get 
access to 900 every day, then 

409
00:20:04,340 --> 00:20:08,100
four. 150 yeah, etc. 
And also I like the freezer 

410
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:12,420
analogy, like the Bitcoin 
freezer has a glass in it so you

411
00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:14,620
can see what is actually 
happening. 

412
00:20:14,620 --> 00:20:17,780
So it's not only the Ledger, but
you can actually see what is 

413
00:20:17,780 --> 00:20:21,460
happening all day, every day, 
24/7, 365. 

414
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:25,390
The government, the government 
freezer is closed. 

415
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:26,910
You cannot. 
That's right. 

416
00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:29,390
Right. 
It's never been opened in 100 

417
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:30,830
years or something. 
Right. 

418
00:20:30,830 --> 00:20:35,270
And there's effectively 7 to 9 
people that guard the freezer 

419
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:37,870
and they can open it up and take
ice cubes out for themselves 

420
00:20:37,870 --> 00:20:40,310
whenever they want and just pour
water in and make more. 

421
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:43,790
Whereas we we have minors all 
over the world, in every 

422
00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:47,910
country, on every continent, 
every sex, race status, securing

423
00:20:47,950 --> 00:20:51,030
this fridge because they're all 
motivated to keep everyone out 

424
00:20:51,030 --> 00:20:52,220
of it. 
So that's. 

425
00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:55,060
Yeah. 
So that's the network of people 

426
00:20:55,860 --> 00:21:00,380
who decided to play by the rules
that everyone can see and then 

427
00:21:00,380 --> 00:21:04,340
decide if they want to play 
according to the rules versus a 

428
00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:07,340
few people who control the 
government temperature, like the

429
00:21:07,340 --> 00:21:10,820
temperature of the government 
freezer with rules that could 

430
00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:14,900
change whenever, right? 
Or at least today. 

431
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:19,320
What is it? 
September 20th today people were

432
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,240
waiting what the Jerome Powell, 
one of the people of the right 

433
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,760
of the temperature was right say
about, you know, what was what 

434
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,120
was going to happen. 
And any bad, any bad actor who 

435
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:33,080
won't wanted to have a malicious
attack. 

436
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,160
Anyone wanted to run into that 
freezer and try to steal all 

437
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,280
those ice cubes. 
It would cost them more in the 

438
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,920
amount of water and buckets and 
glasses and guns and strength. 

439
00:21:44,370 --> 00:21:47,530
Than to simply just participate 
and freeze their ice cubes with 

440
00:21:47,530 --> 00:21:49,890
us. 
Yeah, and that's the beauty of 

441
00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:52,890
the Byzantine Generals problem 
that, you know, Satoshi solved. 

442
00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:55,850
Great. 
Well, maybe this is a nice nice 

443
00:21:55,850 --> 00:21:57,970
analogy. 
Well, I saw you had one post 

444
00:21:57,970 --> 00:22:00,410
about this, so I'll link to 
that. 

445
00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:02,610
Link to that description. 
I like that. 

446
00:22:02,610 --> 00:22:06,290
Yeah, I feel like it's, it's 
helpful. 

447
00:22:07,250 --> 00:22:08,890
Yeah. 
It's like you have to simplify 

448
00:22:08,890 --> 00:22:12,290
before before people can dive in
further, right? 

449
00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:14,450
Like, I I find it also 
interesting. 

450
00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:16,730
Like I'm pretty active on 
Twitter and sometimes I say 

451
00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:20,530
stuff, which also sometimes it's
just partially like my 

452
00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:22,250
assumption and how I think it 
works. 

453
00:22:22,570 --> 00:22:28,090
And then some people with an 
economics degree or whatever. 

454
00:22:28,130 --> 00:22:33,410
Today I was talking to a 
monetary economist he called 

455
00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:36,450
himself, and he was, like, angry
at me on Twitter. 

456
00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:41,930
And I was like, dude, like, you 
know, it's just so it's my 

457
00:22:42,050 --> 00:22:45,010
observation, so not chill, 
right, right, right. 

458
00:22:45,010 --> 00:22:46,970
You can have a, like, I can be 
wrong. 

459
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:48,650
You can be wrong. 
Like, let's just have a 

460
00:22:48,650 --> 00:22:51,210
conversation, right? 
But people are like, viciously 

461
00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:54,330
defending also. 
Like, that's what they've 

462
00:22:54,330 --> 00:22:58,170
learned. 
And it's just really, that's 

463
00:22:58,170 --> 00:23:00,330
also what I love about Bitcoin 
when I talk to bitcoiners. 

464
00:23:00,330 --> 00:23:03,250
Like, everyone has unlearned and
learned stuff, right? 

465
00:23:03,250 --> 00:23:06,570
You do not understand this when 
you start. 

466
00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:09,090
I'm 10 years in, I'm still 
learning, right? 

467
00:23:09,090 --> 00:23:12,450
Like that is just the thing, 
right? 

468
00:23:12,450 --> 00:23:17,810
But yes, it's now just also so 
easy to recognize people who are

469
00:23:17,810 --> 00:23:20,610
very close minded and they're 
just like, no, this is how it 

470
00:23:20,610 --> 00:23:24,170
works and you don't fucking 
understand and then yeah. 

471
00:23:24,290 --> 00:23:26,290
Well, and that's what's great 
about Bitcoin, cuz Bitcoin 

472
00:23:26,290 --> 00:23:28,050
doesn't care about all these 
people. 

473
00:23:28,050 --> 00:23:31,400
I mean it's. 
It's a calculator glued to a 

474
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,080
clock and that's really all it 
is. 

475
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,080
It's just it's just an agnostic 
never stopping. 

476
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,480
Yeah, it never stops. 
And so that's the beauty of it. 

477
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,600
It doesn't care what any of 
these people think. 

478
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,400
They, you know, everyone can 
have their own opinion and 

479
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,840
approach it from their own ways.
And you know, I I might use a 

480
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,760
hammer only to build houses, but
you know, someone else might 

481
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,840
want to throw hammers and use it
as a game for darts. 

482
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,520
Like, you know, throw it at the 
wall. 

483
00:23:55,290 --> 00:23:58,330
That's Okay, That's not how the 
hammer was invented. 

484
00:23:58,370 --> 00:24:00,690
But again, it's a tool. 
And if that's how they want to 

485
00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:02,170
use it, then fine. 
Yeah. 

486
00:24:03,290 --> 00:24:07,450
So who or what has been your 
most influential? 

487
00:24:07,690 --> 00:24:10,450
Like, what has been most 
influential in shaping your 

488
00:24:10,450 --> 00:24:14,170
views on all of this? 
Like money, risk, wealth. 

489
00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:22,760
Like what was your thing? 
So a few things and to try to 

490
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,040
distill it into a short of 
response as possible. 

491
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,680
So being in Hollywood and seeing
the amount of money that people 

492
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,720
make in Hollywood and that we 
can't make in Hollywood, but 

493
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,000
seen how they still have just as
many problems as anybody with 

494
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,760
trying to buy homes or provide 
for their family. 

495
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:48,660
And seen how that translates 
into real estate because 

496
00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:51,220
everyone thinks they need to 
chase real estate even though 

497
00:24:51,220 --> 00:24:54,740
they don't know a thing about 
real estate to earn money and 

498
00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:58,260
how they can't even qualify for 
a lot of these homes and things.

499
00:24:58,260 --> 00:25:01,620
Like, I started my mortgage 
business for all my friends in 

500
00:25:01,620 --> 00:25:03,620
Hollywood and it just grew into 
this thing. 

501
00:25:03,620 --> 00:25:07,280
And now that's what it. 
What it mostly specializes in, 

502
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,000
it's just helping producers and 
directors and actors and 

503
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,120
everybody get into homes. 
So it's like I see the broken 

504
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,200
money at the first level in 
Hollywood and I see it again in 

505
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,960
them trying to get homes. 
And it's like, how can these 

506
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,880
well to do privileged Western 
society people feel the broken 

507
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,600
money, yet, you know, the 
inflation here in America is 

508
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,240
nothing compared to the rest of 
the world. 

509
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,170
It's nothing. 
It's it. 

510
00:25:32,530 --> 00:25:36,170
It, you know, even though our 
true inflation is probably 15 to

511
00:25:36,170 --> 00:25:39,010
20%, right, not the distorted 
CPI. 

512
00:25:39,770 --> 00:25:43,930
It's it's just enough that 
people feel it and everyone in 

513
00:25:43,930 --> 00:25:46,810
Hollywood feels good where it's 
like, oh, they've worked on this

514
00:25:46,810 --> 00:25:50,450
movie and they've made, you 
know, whatever X amount a week 

515
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:53,290
and then the next movie, you 
know, six months later, they're 

516
00:25:53,290 --> 00:25:56,090
making X + 1 and X + 2 and 
everyone wants to raise their 

517
00:25:56,090 --> 00:25:58,050
quotes, right. 
And you see what the the fees 

518
00:25:58,050 --> 00:26:01,690
are and and yeah. 
They're not increasing that what

519
00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:04,770
the the the goods that they 
have, the services they have are

520
00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:06,450
the same. 
So it's like, where's all that 

521
00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:08,650
going? 
And yeah. 

522
00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:12,410
I so I saw this early on without
knowing, I saw it. 

523
00:26:12,610 --> 00:26:16,250
I saw it at the real estate 
level where it's like why can 

524
00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:19,210
these people that are making 
700,000 a year not afford a 

525
00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:22,330
home, like what's what's broken 
there, what you know, what's 

526
00:26:22,330 --> 00:26:25,690
going on. 
And so that led me into starting

527
00:26:25,730 --> 00:26:29,770
a a finance strategy business 
where I consult these people so.

528
00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:32,330
Because as a mortgage broker, 
you look at all their finances, 

529
00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:34,290
you see all their statements. 
And so I could see where all the

530
00:26:34,290 --> 00:26:37,170
money's buried. 
And so I would help coach them. 

531
00:26:37,650 --> 00:26:40,330
But a lot of it was also them 
coming up with side hustles and 

532
00:26:40,330 --> 00:26:42,570
here's other ways to make money,
now do this, now do that. 

533
00:26:42,570 --> 00:26:44,570
It's like they're not 
specialized in all these other 

534
00:26:44,570 --> 00:26:45,770
things. 
And now they're having to grind 

535
00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:49,650
harder and longer hours just to 
maintain the wealth that they 

536
00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:51,010
would have two or three years 
ago. 

537
00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:52,810
So that's when I noticed it was 
broken. 

538
00:26:53,690 --> 00:26:57,330
When I came to Bitcoin, I didn't
see that as a replacement, as 

539
00:26:57,330 --> 00:26:59,250
money. 
I didn't see it as this 

540
00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:02,490
egalitarian code. 
I didn't see it as a separation 

541
00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:04,730
of state. 
I just saw it as a tech stock, 

542
00:27:04,730 --> 00:27:08,250
like we all did, right? 
And like everybody else, I got 

543
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:10,770
into crypto and I was like, oh, 
look at all these other things 

544
00:27:10,770 --> 00:27:13,130
and look how cheap these are. 
And this thing's gonna go up. 

545
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:14,650
And, you know, you start 
throwing the and you start 

546
00:27:14,650 --> 00:27:17,490
hearing things on CNBC. 
Oh, you need to diversify, 

547
00:27:17,490 --> 00:27:18,850
right? 
Just pick 20. 

548
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,440
Cryptos and throw money at it, 
and one of them's gonna go up. 

549
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,320
And you know, that was the 
narrative back then, but this 

550
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,560
was before people realized what 
it is. 

551
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,000
And you know, we've all come to 
learn how important Bitcoin is 

552
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,840
so, but when you got in like I 
always. 

553
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,400
But I didn't know I saw it. 
So what was your aha moment 

554
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,640
like? 
When did you really see it? 

555
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,680
I started understand. 
Yeah, so once I learned that all

556
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,520
of the Ico's and quote UN quote 
crypto were scams, because it's 

557
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,120
just the Fiat world coming to an
easier casino, right? 

558
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,360
Anyone can open the casino, 
anyone can print as many tokens 

559
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,920
as they want. 
They could rug pull ever they 

560
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,880
want. 
And when I started to see that, 

561
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,760
it's like, you know, Aetherium 
had a whatever 30% pre mine and 

562
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,800
Seoul had like a 70% pre. 
Like all these people just took 

563
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,200
all the tokens and made all they
want. 

564
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,610
I thought, OK. 
This clear, they clearly are not

565
00:28:09,610 --> 00:28:12,690
here for any more altruistic 
reasons, which is what Bitcoin 

566
00:28:12,690 --> 00:28:14,730
was saying. 
And Bitcoin was saying this 

567
00:28:14,730 --> 00:28:16,810
without, of course, any 
executives or marketing 

568
00:28:16,810 --> 00:28:19,530
department or CEO or terms of 
service or lawyers or anything. 

569
00:28:20,570 --> 00:28:23,370
Just a thing. 
Just a tool. 

570
00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:27,610
And so once I saw that it 
clicked, it clicked for me that 

571
00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:33,490
Bitcoin wasn't just some token 
to make money on, it was. 

572
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,360
It was money itself. 
And that, that's why I titled my

573
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:40,360
book Proof of Money. 
I feel like Bram, our world has 

574
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,640
never, ever had money until 
Bitcoin. 

575
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,640
We've all had surrogates. 
We've all had a coupon for 

576
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,200
money. 
We've all had an attempt at 

577
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,000
money. 
We've all had something because 

578
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,560
we don't have money. 
We have to use gold or seashells

579
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,320
or salt or this piece of paper. 
But now we finitely have it, 

580
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,280
because what is money supposed 
to be? 

581
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,680
It's like, well, one it has to 
be a store of value. 

582
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,440
We know that. 
So if it has to be a store of 

583
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,720
value, well, that throws almost 
everything else out the window, 

584
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,440
except maybe gold. 
But then how do I retain gold 

585
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,960
safely without people seeing it?
How do I cut it up? 

586
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,240
How do I take it? 
It's like it's tethered to to 

587
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,040
the ground. 
Like Bitcoin is the first money 

588
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,760
ever that isn't tethered to any 
flag or to any state or to any 

589
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,120
government. 
We know this. 

590
00:29:25,610 --> 00:29:28,730
But until you start to look at 
the properties and realize, 

591
00:29:28,730 --> 00:29:34,050
well, it's just, it's just code.
It's like, that's all money 

592
00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:37,210
should be. 
If money is just to secure your 

593
00:29:37,210 --> 00:29:41,970
wealth and take it forward in 
time and space for as long as 

594
00:29:41,970 --> 00:29:44,530
you want through generations. 
It's like we used to think, oh, 

595
00:29:44,530 --> 00:29:48,010
this is amazing. 
I could take $3000 and I could 

596
00:29:48,810 --> 00:29:51,410
send it from here to Japan. 
We thought, wow, that's amazing.

597
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,120
Well it would be amazing if you 
could send 3000 dollars 300 

598
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,200
years into the future and it be 
and it by the same services and 

599
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,400
goods. 
And also if you sent $3000 to 

600
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,800
Japan at 2500 arrives currently.
Well, exactly, exactly. 

601
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,720
All the fees and all the 
intermediaries in between, yeah,

602
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,960
forget about that. 
And in Japan, you know, I mean, 

603
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,960
like pick, pick a third world 
country, right. 

604
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,880
And that they're taking like 40%
out. 

605
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,080
It's it's gone and and so that 
store value, right Like I also 

606
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,290
think because when you talk 
about Bitcoin being money which 

607
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:29,730
obviously I agree with, but a 
lot of people then respond and 

608
00:30:29,730 --> 00:30:34,130
say like it's slow and 
transaction throughput da da, 

609
00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:37,490
da, da. 
Would you agree that like the 

610
00:30:37,570 --> 00:30:43,720
step one is people understanding
its store value, IE you can 

611
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,320
store the value that you receive
for your job or your venture? 

612
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,600
You know, whatever because you 
put value in your energy that 

613
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,800
you can save that across time, 
which is into the future and 

614
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,120
across space, which is take it 
anywhere in the world or let 

615
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,320
your kids eventually take it 
anywhere in the world, right? 

616
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,680
Like, would you agree to that? 
Like that is just that is step 

617
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,170
one. 
Well, yes. 

618
00:31:09,170 --> 00:31:12,450
So 2 answers to that. 
So any any money and throughout 

619
00:31:12,450 --> 00:31:16,330
history this is true. 
Nothing can become money until 

620
00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:18,810
the people choose it. 
And the people won't choose it 

621
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:20,650
as money until it can store 
their value. 

622
00:31:20,650 --> 00:31:23,170
If it can't store value, it's 
just a hot potato, right? 

623
00:31:23,170 --> 00:31:25,930
Like some currencies are like an
Argentina or Turkey, just a hot 

624
00:31:25,930 --> 00:31:27,210
potato. 
The minute they get it, boom. 

625
00:31:27,210 --> 00:31:29,050
They got to get rid of it 
because it's it's not going to 

626
00:31:29,050 --> 00:31:31,410
buy the same amount tomorrow or 
they use it side fire. 

627
00:31:31,730 --> 00:31:33,250
Or they lose it to light a fire,
keep warm. 

628
00:31:33,250 --> 00:31:35,370
I mean, you know, the V Mar and 
you know, it's like your whole 

629
00:31:35,370 --> 00:31:39,280
history, but. 
So yes, it has to 1 store value,

630
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,680
but two, it is actually the 
fastest money we've ever had. 

631
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,760
You know, even if you look at 
our current Fiat, our Fiat is 

632
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,440
slower than Bitcoin. 
What people think is fast with 

633
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,200
credit cards and transfers is 
the number changing second and 

634
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,520
third layers. 
Yes, our second layer of 

635
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,880
Bitcoin, which your your 
listeners know. 

636
00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:03,020
The Lightning Network is faster 
than anything we've we've ever 

637
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:03,780
had. 
It's the. 

638
00:32:03,980 --> 00:32:06,940
It's the fastest monetary rails.
Yeah. 

639
00:32:06,940 --> 00:32:10,660
So to explain that, I think what
you mean is like I can people 

640
00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:14,340
can send each other money, 
whether it's in Europe or 

641
00:32:14,340 --> 00:32:18,580
America or anywhere else. 
And you know, I can send you $10

642
00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:20,460
from from here, from Europe to 
you. 

643
00:32:20,460 --> 00:32:24,740
And then it goes -10 on my 
screen and it goes plus 10 on 

644
00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:26,430
your screen. 
That's right. 

645
00:32:26,430 --> 00:32:28,630
There's no final settlement, 
yes, exactly. 

646
00:32:29,070 --> 00:32:33,830
But that does not mean that the 
actual value that 10 units of 

647
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:38,630
dollars or EUR should actually 
represent that, that is also 

648
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:41,230
transferred, right? 
That's right. 

649
00:32:41,870 --> 00:32:47,710
Conceptually, your bank actually
has the 10 and my bank doesn't 

650
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,320
anymore. 
That's a whole different story, 

651
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,400
whether they even have it. 
But let's keep with the concept,

652
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,480
right? 
But with Bitcoin, when I send 

653
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:01,600
you, let's say 10 Bitcoin, you 
actually have the 10 Bitcoin and

654
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,440
I do not have them. 
That's right. 

655
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:05,340
Own them. 
You. 

656
00:33:05,420 --> 00:33:06,380
That's right. 
Have them. 

657
00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:07,940
Really. 
It's not just a number you 

658
00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:09,340
actually have. 
That's right. 

659
00:33:09,380 --> 00:33:11,740
It's immutable. 
It's uneditable. 

660
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:14,100
No one can take it, but you 
can't call someone and say I 

661
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:15,980
made a mistake, let me get it 
back. 

662
00:33:17,060 --> 00:33:18,900
I have it. 
It's so it's not just a credit 

663
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:19,980
instrument. 
That's the thing. 

664
00:33:20,180 --> 00:33:22,620
Like, we're not used to having 
money, systems that aren't 

665
00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:25,860
credit, You know, like a dollar 
bill is just, it's just a 

666
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:27,420
credit. 
That's just an IOU from the 

667
00:33:27,420 --> 00:33:29,940
government. 
You know Bitcoin is, which is 

668
00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:32,340
why it's classified. 
They said because because the 

669
00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:37,670
the, the let's call it the 
digital money, you know from 

670
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:41,510
well, when I think it was also 
digital when it was basically on

671
00:33:41,510 --> 00:33:44,430
a Ledger 100 years ago at a 
bank, right. 

672
00:33:44,430 --> 00:33:48,070
Like it's numbers although it 
was represented or backed by 

673
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:52,310
gold in that sense. 
Do you think it's because it was

674
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:55,670
backed by gold, let's say it was
somewhat tangible still right, 

675
00:33:55,670 --> 00:33:59,070
like yes, OK, you can hold the 
bill but the dollar bill but it 

676
00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:02,830
represented something, right. 
But when that didn't anymore, 

677
00:34:02,830 --> 00:34:06,620
the the bill was just a paper 
with a number on it. 

678
00:34:06,620 --> 00:34:09,460
That's when most people, 
especially the millennial 

679
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:12,260
generation, only know that, 
right? 

680
00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:19,100
But now, when you can actually 
own the money in the Bitcoin 

681
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,100
example, that's right, that is 
already different. 

682
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:24,020
So that's weird. 
Yeah. 

683
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:28,460
But the fact that it's not 
physical but it's digital, but 

684
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:33,670
true to technology, it is almost
as if it's tangibly in your 

685
00:34:33,909 --> 00:34:37,830
possession. 
That is even a bigger thing to, 

686
00:34:38,190 --> 00:34:40,070
you know, wrap your head around.
If you never. 

687
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:42,750
If you never, yes, thought about
that, right. 

688
00:34:42,909 --> 00:34:46,190
And that's the distinction 
between digital and virtual. 

689
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:49,429
Like it's digital act, you can 
own the ones and zeros. 

690
00:34:49,429 --> 00:34:51,469
Virtual is like, I don't really 
have it. 

691
00:34:51,469 --> 00:34:54,190
You owned a number, you see a 
number which represents 

692
00:34:54,350 --> 00:34:55,230
something. 
That's right. 

693
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:57,550
And I'm glad that you brought 
up. 

694
00:34:57,830 --> 00:35:00,870
Basically, you know what 
happened in 1971 when the dollar

695
00:35:00,870 --> 00:35:02,310
depegged from gold? 
Because. 

696
00:35:03,050 --> 00:35:06,370
Anyone born after 1971, you 
know, all millennials of course,

697
00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:10,130
don't realize that the dollars 
that they're. 

698
00:35:11,130 --> 00:35:12,610
So here's the analogy I like to 
use. 

699
00:35:12,610 --> 00:35:16,210
It's like, you know, you you 
drive your nice car to the club 

700
00:35:16,210 --> 00:35:21,250
and you get a valet ticket. 
So prior to 1971, there was 

701
00:35:21,250 --> 00:35:25,210
number valet ticket you had. 
You dropped your car off and you

702
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:27,330
have your car and when you 
leave, you have your car. 

703
00:35:27,730 --> 00:35:29,770
After 1971 you drop your car 
off. 

704
00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:32,910
They give you the valet ticket. 
Here's a coupon for your car. 

705
00:35:32,910 --> 00:35:34,750
Yeah and no. 
Can it just drove the car away. 

706
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:36,870
And they said, you know what, 
you don't need the car. 

707
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:38,710
This valet ticket is the same as
a car. 

708
00:35:38,830 --> 00:35:41,870
It'll take you everywhere. 
And so we started trading. 

709
00:35:41,870 --> 00:35:43,070
It's like, OK, well, I have a 
car here. 

710
00:35:43,070 --> 00:35:45,190
I want to trade it for a house 
and then so on and so on. 

711
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:47,190
It's like, or it's like a coat 
check, right? 

712
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:49,670
You've turned your coat in and I
got this check and I go back and

713
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:52,190
now the coats gone. 
So now I'm just gonna walk 

714
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:54,350
around with this coat check 
instead of a coat to keep me 

715
00:35:54,350 --> 00:35:57,530
warm. 
I actually love that like this. 

716
00:35:57,730 --> 00:36:01,450
The stupid, more stupid or more 
simplistic you make the 

717
00:36:01,490 --> 00:36:07,370
examples, you know, the more 
radical actually sounds when 

718
00:36:07,530 --> 00:36:10,930
when people understand that it's
actually connected to a real 

719
00:36:10,930 --> 00:36:12,090
world thing. 
Right. 

720
00:36:12,090 --> 00:36:13,890
Like this, this actually 
happened. 

721
00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:16,650
Right. 
We had gold for 5000 years and 

722
00:36:16,650 --> 00:36:19,570
then the president, the 
president in America said come 

723
00:36:19,690 --> 00:36:24,250
turn in, turn in your gold 
temporarily 50 years ago until 

724
00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:27,890
now, which yeah, it's not, yeah.
And what he also said was, you 

725
00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:30,290
know what he said this is how 
he, he pulled the wool, 

726
00:36:30,290 --> 00:36:33,050
everyone's eyes. 
He said, you know, it's not the 

727
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:35,330
gold that you need to back the 
dollar. 

728
00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:37,530
All this time it's been the 
dollar to back the gold. 

729
00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:38,810
So let's just get rid of the 
gold. 

730
00:36:39,010 --> 00:36:40,370
The dollar is all you really 
needed. 

731
00:36:40,770 --> 00:36:43,770
And ever since that we've been, 
which is why we've lost. 

732
00:36:43,770 --> 00:36:46,330
Really written right on there. 
You know backed by gold now just

733
00:36:46,330 --> 00:36:51,190
says backed by faith, yeah. 
So faith and hope is the 

734
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:53,150
strategy. 
And I hope that's right. 

735
00:36:53,150 --> 00:36:56,550
So I think this is an 
interesting question because 

736
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:58,670
you're also in Hollywood, at 
least from the outside. 

737
00:36:58,670 --> 00:37:03,190
You know, money is a thing. 
People, you know, the people in 

738
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:06,030
Hollywood influence the rest of 
the world also, you know, 

739
00:37:06,030 --> 00:37:10,830
culturally wise in society. 
How do you think our beliefs 

740
00:37:11,070 --> 00:37:15,470
about money shape society? 
And from a Hollywood angle, I 

741
00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:18,270
think that's maybe even a deeper
question there. 

742
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:23,380
But like, what do you think? 
I I mean, from the Hollywood 

743
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:27,580
perspective, I think, you know, 
it becomes a flex, it becomes a 

744
00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:35,700
scorecard, it becomes a game, 
you know, because, you know, 

745
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:39,020
it's like if you, if you look 
through monetary history, it's 

746
00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:42,700
like we were never supposed to 
be wearing gold, for instance. 

747
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:45,700
We were, you know, as like, hey,
look who I am. 

748
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:49,080
Look at all this wealth I have. 
It was because they had to carry

749
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,600
it through them walking on the 
planes. 

750
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,560
There had to be a way for them 
to carry their wealth and they 

751
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,560
actually wore their necklaces 
underneath their clothing. 

752
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,520
You didn't want to show it off. 
That was a risk. 

753
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,920
But you know, cut to today with 
broken money and it's like, 

754
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,480
well, you. 
You can only store your money in

755
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,320
so many places. 
And gold has been the the 

756
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,400
leading money for a long time. 
And this is a way where once 

757
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,520
you've reached a certain level 
and you don't need anymore, well

758
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,880
you can start to show it off. 
It's it's excess. 

759
00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:21,430
And so in in movies, in 
Hollywood and narratives, it's 

760
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:23,790
like, yeah, hey, here's the 
fancy car, right? 

761
00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:26,590
Here's the big house, right? 
You know, look at Iron Man. 

762
00:38:26,590 --> 00:38:28,590
Here's, here's all my money. 
Here's all the things I can do 

763
00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:35,030
with my money and I can throw it
away it I see videos of people 

764
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:39,750
in the in in clubs in America 
pouring the pouring their $1000 

765
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:41,950
champagne bottles or something 
like there's. 

766
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:42,950
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

767
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:45,430
Wolf of Wall Street and, you 
know, all these movies. 

768
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:48,990
And so, I mean, there's an 
excess that is portrayed. 

769
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:53,270
But I also think, I mean it's 
portrayed partially for escapism

770
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:55,630
because most people don't have 
that kind of money South. 

771
00:38:55,630 --> 00:38:58,950
It's fun for them to imagine for
a moment, wow, what would it be 

772
00:38:58,950 --> 00:39:01,990
like to have so much money that 
I can just dispose of it like 

773
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:04,670
that? 
And on the other hand, it. 

774
00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:07,690
It makes them think, oh, I need 
to grind. 

775
00:39:07,690 --> 00:39:10,610
I need to work harder, I need to
have more side hustles. 

776
00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:16,290
And you know, and I don't think 
that that's necessarily true for

777
00:39:16,290 --> 00:39:19,090
everybody because that's where 
the broken money as a first 

778
00:39:19,090 --> 00:39:21,090
principle problem causes all 
these other problems. 

779
00:39:21,090 --> 00:39:24,330
Because OK, if you need to have 
a side hustle and grind harder 

780
00:39:24,330 --> 00:39:26,850
brand, you know, you're not 
going to have your kid, you're 

781
00:39:26,850 --> 00:39:29,690
not going to start your family 
like so, so now you're not going

782
00:39:29,690 --> 00:39:31,610
to have a family. 
Now you're not going to choose 

783
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:33,810
the right choices, maybe for 
your food. 

784
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,520
Because you need to get food 
fast and quick because you're 

785
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,000
you're working so hard, you're 
not sleeping as much, you're 

786
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,880
going for comfort food, fast 
food. 

787
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,960
This affects your health, this 
affects your future. 

788
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,720
So it it sort of leaks into 
everything. 

789
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,800
I don't know that Hollywood 
shows that what they what they 

790
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,680
show is they show lots of money 
and then they show all this 

791
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,820
Wellness. 
Well then you need all this 

792
00:39:58,820 --> 00:40:00,580
Wellness. 
You need to be doing yoga and 

793
00:40:00,580 --> 00:40:02,180
drinking this green shake and do
it all. 

794
00:40:02,460 --> 00:40:06,340
So that's their solution to a 
problem that could be fixed at 

795
00:40:06,340 --> 00:40:12,220
the top end if we were teaching 
and demonstrating hard money and

796
00:40:12,220 --> 00:40:14,500
responsible saving and 
sovereignty. 

797
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,620
There isn't a lot of sovereignty
that's taught in Hollywood, 

798
00:40:17,620 --> 00:40:20,020
although some of the principles 
are there in the background. 

799
00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:23,780
You know, every now and then 
there's movies like The Matrix 

800
00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:27,060
or you know the. 
Where it's like, look, you need 

801
00:40:27,060 --> 00:40:30,100
to wake up to what's happening 
to centralized corporations, to 

802
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:34,380
the government, to just being 
aware. 

803
00:40:37,980 --> 00:40:39,140
Did that answer your question? 
I was. 

804
00:40:39,260 --> 00:40:42,260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. 
But I also think like I was 

805
00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:46,380
thinking when when you answer 
this question, I almost want to 

806
00:40:46,380 --> 00:40:51,300
say like but does that broken 
money then also kind of like? 

807
00:40:51,970 --> 00:40:54,850
Devaluate value, I almost want 
to say, right. 

808
00:40:54,850 --> 00:40:57,450
So when you, when you mentioned 
like, oh, people think I should 

809
00:40:57,450 --> 00:41:00,610
have a side hustle, I should 
make as much money as possible 

810
00:41:00,610 --> 00:41:05,690
and then you know I have to get 
more amounts of these money 

811
00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:10,010
units basically, right. 
But is that then actually what 

812
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:14,810
you want to do, is that your 
added value in the world, right?

813
00:41:14,850 --> 00:41:20,840
Or do you then miss the value of
creating a family or like 

814
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,120
whatever. 
That's right, that's it exactly.

815
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,200
But I but I think people, unless
they step back and fly. 

816
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:30,640
What is really valuable in life?
Perhaps that's right and and and

817
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,040
I think many people do reach 
that level of wisdom but it 

818
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,480
takes a while that we're all 
ingrained. 

819
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,840
We're all taught and and because
it's a game and a scorecard to 

820
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,320
make more money, it's like, oh, 
you want to make more money? 

821
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,560
I want to make more money than 
him. 

822
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,560
It's like, what's he doing? 
How's he making so much money? 

823
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,000
How's it that he has a house 
already? 

824
00:41:50,340 --> 00:41:54,140
So is that is that like concept 
of money then like inherently 

825
00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:58,460
linked to inequality also in a 
sense or maybe not just 

826
00:41:58,460 --> 00:42:02,420
inequality but like yeah this 
person has that and then I'm 

827
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:07,900
better or worse or I don't I'm 
not sure I know how to answer 

828
00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:13,220
that because you know it's it's 
it's like on one hand everybody 

829
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:20,120
it's like I always believe in in
equal opportunity but not equal 

830
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,040
outcome. 
Right. 

831
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,400
So anyone that really does want 
to make more money quote UN 

832
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,040
quote can make more money But 
yes what are you could be 

833
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,200
sacrificing other things that 
are more important. 

834
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,960
It's with Bitcoin. 
It's like it it becomes more 

835
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,040
than the money because it's it's
it's the money, but it's also 

836
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,440
the ownership. 
It's the IT. 

837
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,640
It compresses all of your value,
monetary or not, in the past, to

838
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,880
take forward into the future, 
which can't be said about 

839
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,880
anything else. 
Yeah. 

840
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,800
So when you believe in what you 
said, you know, equality of 

841
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,800
opportunity, not outcome, do you
think then capitalism is the 

842
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:06,360
most ethical economic system? 
Well, that's a very loaded 

843
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,000
question, I mean. 
I know. 

844
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,480
You know, on one hand I'm 
totally capitalist. 

845
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,640
Let me look, I went to Business 
School. 

846
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,590
I've thought, you know, I've, 
I've run businesses, I've sold 

847
00:43:15,590 --> 00:43:19,070
businesses, I build businesses. 
I love business, but I also love

848
00:43:19,070 --> 00:43:23,430
to work hard and I and I know 
how to make money, but but for 

849
00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:25,670
the people that don't. 
But so for that, in a sense 

850
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:28,310
that's my vocation. 
It's for the people that aren't.

851
00:43:28,310 --> 00:43:32,950
It's like for the podiatrist or 
the painter or the Baker, you 

852
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:35,150
know, or the plumber. 
It's like for the people that 

853
00:43:35,230 --> 00:43:39,100
they have their trade called a 
trade because you're supposed to

854
00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:42,580
be able to trade your excess 
contribution for someone else's,

855
00:43:42,740 --> 00:43:43,780
you know, that's why it's called
a trade. 

856
00:43:44,020 --> 00:43:48,500
So it's like those people 
shouldn't have to become a 

857
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:52,220
broker and become an accountant 
and become an economist to do 

858
00:43:52,220 --> 00:43:55,820
these other things. 
So in that sense, I mean, is 

859
00:43:55,820 --> 00:43:58,060
capitalism bad? 
I don't know that it's bad. 

860
00:43:58,300 --> 00:43:59,700
But I didn't say bad they don't 
like. 

861
00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:02,700
Is is this the most ethical? 
Like, yeah, because I don't. 

862
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,580
What I think like the the 
equality of opportunity. 

863
00:44:06,750 --> 00:44:10,990
That I agree with. 
I do think that capitalism, in 

864
00:44:10,990 --> 00:44:15,910
the most simplistic way I could 
explain it, is even when you're 

865
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:18,750
a Carpenter or a painter or 
whatever, right? 

866
00:44:18,750 --> 00:44:22,750
Like if or if we bake breads or 
cakes. 

867
00:44:22,750 --> 00:44:25,830
And my cakes are better than 
yours, so people like mine. 

868
00:44:25,870 --> 00:44:27,670
Sure, I'm better at baking cakes
than. 

869
00:44:28,460 --> 00:44:30,340
Maybe you should not be baking 
cakes. 

870
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:32,300
No. 
In that part I believe in, I 

871
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:34,260
believe it. 
And that comes with Bitcoin too.

872
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:36,780
Like, in a sense, Bitcoin is 
very capitalistic in that 

873
00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:39,540
everyone's going to get it at 
the price they deserve, right? 

874
00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:43,340
Like, how much work are you 
willing to do to learn about it,

875
00:44:43,340 --> 00:44:45,860
to secure as much as possible at
the right time? 

876
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:49,540
Or are you going to wait until 
the BlackRock ETF comes in and 

877
00:44:49,540 --> 00:44:52,660
the other 17 trillion of assets 
under management and now you're 

878
00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:55,910
going to buy it at 250,000? 
And by the way, that's OK. 

879
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:58,790
You can buy it at 250,000 and 
write it up to 5 million, but 

880
00:44:59,430 --> 00:45:03,390
also if you do the work you 
might understand it and get in a

881
00:45:03,390 --> 00:45:04,950
little bit earlier. 
Yeah. 

882
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:09,270
So do you see Bitcoin as just a 
technology as you mentioned or 

883
00:45:09,830 --> 00:45:14,310
also like a philosophy in that 
sense also tied to what you what

884
00:45:14,310 --> 00:45:17,670
you just said? 
I mean, I see it quite literally

885
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:22,640
as a technology, as as code. 
But I see it becomes 

886
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,960
philosophical because it's code,
because we have never known 

887
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,360
anything in our life ever to 
have anything that wasn't 

888
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,200
controlled by someone or by some
state that there wasn't some 

889
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,560
leader somewhere. 
We've never, ever had that ever.

890
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,420
And that we can own. 
Meaning, you know, you can't 

891
00:45:41,420 --> 00:45:42,740
ever. 
You can't own anything if you 

892
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:45,260
can't defend it. 
Which is why my argument is that

893
00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:47,500
we've never owned anything 
before Bitcoin, because you 

894
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:50,260
can't defend anything else. 
It's like even like my house 

895
00:45:50,260 --> 00:45:53,340
right here, which I own, and I 
pay the mortgage and I pay all 

896
00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:55,460
this, you know? 
But why am I paying property 

897
00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:57,140
taxes? 
I'm not selling it, but I'm 

898
00:45:57,140 --> 00:45:58,980
paying all this money and 
property like, so they can take 

899
00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:00,140
it. 
They can put a lien on it. 

900
00:46:00,420 --> 00:46:02,060
I can be. 
If you don't pay it, yeah. 

901
00:46:02,420 --> 00:46:05,420
So they said this is a thing and
you need to pay it. 

902
00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:07,740
If you don't, we can take it. 
That's right. 

903
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,960
And they can take it anyways. 
You know, with eminent domain, 

904
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,760
you know, if the airport decides
to expand or the beach expands 

905
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,760
and they can knock, you know 
where I used to live before here

906
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,560
I was literally on the 0 yard 
line of the LAX airport, like 

907
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,560
all of the homes had been 
knocked down up to my street. 

908
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,920
I walk out my front door, I look
straight at the airport. 

909
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,050
That was it. 
And my was the next street to 

910
00:46:29,050 --> 00:46:30,250
go. 
And I saw the writing on the 

911
00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:33,610
wall, so I got out of there. 
Now it's still there, but it's 

912
00:46:33,610 --> 00:46:35,730
like they can just take it and 
they'll take it at the price 

913
00:46:35,730 --> 00:46:37,730
that they set. 
And that's law. 

914
00:46:37,730 --> 00:46:39,970
They're allowed to do that. 
And that's right here in 

915
00:46:39,970 --> 00:46:45,650
America, right in Los Angeles. 
And so, so I see both sorry as 

916
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:46,410
a. 
Yeah, yeah. 

917
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:49,410
No, Some philosophical and so, 
but when does it really turn 

918
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:50,770
philosophical? 
Because I think. 

919
00:46:51,540 --> 00:46:54,700
What what I like also about this
example and and I hear a lot of 

920
00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:57,460
people say that but there's also
people who have a rebuttal and 

921
00:46:57,460 --> 00:46:59,820
that say like yeah but a house 
is really an ownership and a 

922
00:46:59,820 --> 00:47:02,780
government couldn't really do 
that but it's not necessarily 

923
00:47:02,780 --> 00:47:07,060
about if they could or or like 
if they if they would. 

924
00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:11,020
But the fact that they could is 
more the argument also here. 

925
00:47:11,020 --> 00:47:16,740
So the fact that you think that 
you spend your money on a house 

926
00:47:16,740 --> 00:47:19,260
or you have an agreement with a 
bank and a mortgage et cetera, 

927
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:22,750
that that, that. 
Because you signed the paper 

928
00:47:22,750 --> 00:47:26,430
somewhere that it's actually 
yours, because I don't know what

929
00:47:26,430 --> 00:47:29,270
the English word is, but like 
you know at the municipality 

930
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:31,750
there's a number, lots bloody 
blah. 

931
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:37,230
Yeah, you know so and so, you 
know so and so is the property 

932
00:47:37,630 --> 00:47:43,030
of Terence Michael. 
But that doesn't exclude the 

933
00:47:43,310 --> 00:47:50,630
possibility of a local ruler or 
federal ruler in your in your 

934
00:47:50,630 --> 00:47:54,360
case. 
To decide whether or not that 

935
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,080
house should still exist, right?
Just because that opportunity is

936
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,840
there. 
That's where the argument comes 

937
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,280
from, right? 
Of owning a house is not really 

938
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,760
property, etc. 
And that's right. 

939
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,440
And I think a lot of people 
don't. 

940
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,520
Want to understand that, right. 
They think, oh, that would never

941
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,000
happen. 
But I think the philosophical 

942
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,520
part here is or also the 
psychological part is that, 

943
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,720
yeah, just because you wouldn't 
do that doesn't mean that it's 

944
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:19,640
possible. 
And that's like the core of this

945
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,440
argument here, right? 
That well you. 

946
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,040
Are not a sovereign person in 
that sense exactly. 

947
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,240
And and. 
And that's why it's 

948
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,880
philosophical. 
Because people get stuck in 

949
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,910
their little communities with 
their their own rules and 

950
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:37,390
regulations and forget how the 
rest of the world live, how the 

951
00:48:37,390 --> 00:48:40,350
global S is. 
And it's like so many places in 

952
00:48:40,350 --> 00:48:43,270
the world, you know, the 
majority of the world, 80% of 

953
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:45,950
the world, they they aren't 
unbanked. 

954
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:50,030
They are disenfranchised, They 
are censored their their money, 

955
00:48:50,110 --> 00:48:54,630
their activity is surveilled. 
They can't cross borders with 

956
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:56,510
wealth. 
It'll be stolen from them. 

957
00:48:56,510 --> 00:48:59,190
Women can't, you know, be 
educated there. 

958
00:48:59,430 --> 00:49:03,990
There's so many broken things 
because of broken money that 

959
00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:06,550
Bitcoin solves. 
Because it's like, how else do 

960
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:10,430
you have a money that is free 
from all these people that could

961
00:49:10,430 --> 00:49:13,270
literally just be, you know, 12 
words in your head? 

962
00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:19,590
And so the philosophy is, wow, 
for the first time I can store 

963
00:49:19,590 --> 00:49:21,910
all of my wealth, everything 
that I've done. 

964
00:49:22,070 --> 00:49:27,320
So I've, you know, I've painted 
a house today and I was paid 

965
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,640
$500 to paint that house. 
Well, I only need $300.00, my 

966
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,360
burn versus my. 
So my urn is 500 for the day. 

967
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,320
My burn is 300. 
That 300 represents, you know, 

968
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,360
proportionately the food I need 
to eat that day, the lights, the

969
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,160
electricity, my gas, whatever. 
But there's 200 extra, So that 

970
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,720
200 extra I I need to store 
somewhere, right? 

971
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:48,440
And so everyone's like I'll just
throw in a savings account, 

972
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,760
whatever. 
But philosophically, what if you

973
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,960
that? 
What if that just stays with you

974
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,760
you you know the value you 
provided, What if you could 

975
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,920
just? 
Handle You actually keep it, you

976
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,200
actually keep it, and as long as
you need to keep it. 

977
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,880
And then you spend that for the 
20 sandwiches that you need 

978
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,000
later when you need it. 
But you always know that's worth

979
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,280
20 sandwiches. 
Without that, without the 

980
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,030
ability to store that the next 
day I'm not gonna paint is 

981
00:50:14,030 --> 00:50:17,230
efficiently or as fast. 
I did for that 500 because I 

982
00:50:17,230 --> 00:50:18,710
don't. 
My burn is only 300. 

983
00:50:18,990 --> 00:50:22,030
So I'm gonna paint just slower. 
I'm gonna only paint half the 

984
00:50:22,030 --> 00:50:23,990
side of the barn and get my 300 
bucks. 

985
00:50:24,030 --> 00:50:25,070
Why? 
Why save it? 

986
00:50:25,070 --> 00:50:28,510
Because that's gonna dissipate. 
That 200 extra contribution is 

987
00:50:28,510 --> 00:50:31,030
going to be, you know, 100. 
Yeah, it's actually a perverse 

988
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:34,790
incentive, right. 
Like, it's exactly it's it's a 

989
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:39,470
burden almost and when you can 
actually save it through time 

990
00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:43,030
and space and. 
I really love this fault. 

991
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:48,390
Like if you know that you can 
actually do that, maybe you 

992
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:52,030
would still get paid 500, but 
you would even do a way better 

993
00:50:52,030 --> 00:50:57,670
job because you value the job 
that you do whatever your job is

994
00:50:57,990 --> 00:51:02,670
way more because you understand 
that that what you put in and 

995
00:51:03,150 --> 00:51:06,350
that what you get, well that 
what you get rewarded for, what 

996
00:51:06,350 --> 00:51:09,030
you put in, you can actually 
own. 

997
00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:11,860
Forever basically. 
That's right. 

998
00:51:11,860 --> 00:51:14,580
So I think that's that's a good 
incentive in that sense, right, 

999
00:51:14,580 --> 00:51:17,660
Because then everything will be 
better, hopefully more quality. 

1000
00:51:17,660 --> 00:51:19,380
Well, yeah. 
And then you, you are 

1001
00:51:19,380 --> 00:51:23,660
incentivized to create rather 
than consume and early consume 

1002
00:51:23,660 --> 00:51:27,020
needlessly to, you know, save 
rather than spend, you know, to 

1003
00:51:27,020 --> 00:51:30,940
plan rather than gamble. 
Like inflationary money causes 

1004
00:51:30,940 --> 00:51:34,420
you to gamble and spend and 
consume because it's not going 

1005
00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:36,140
to be worth anything. 
You have to get rid of it. 

1006
00:51:37,340 --> 00:51:39,840
Yeah. 
And so is this also what you 

1007
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,520
think could contribute then to 
or what Bitcoin can contribute 

1008
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,440
to, like personal and financial 
freedom? 

1009
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,160
Is that this example, that 
that's it? 

1010
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,440
Like, in the most simplistic 
terms, you know, because there's

1011
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,880
so much that can be said about 
Bitcoin and the most simplistic 

1012
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:03,760
terms, it stores wealth with 
finite, contained energy. 

1013
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,280
There's no leakage. 
There's no loss. 

1014
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:08,740
It's it's a battery that doesn't
drain. 

1015
00:52:08,980 --> 00:52:12,060
And even though everyone can 
intellectually say, Oh yeah, I 

1016
00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:14,940
get that, that's cool. 
It's like, ah, but think about 

1017
00:52:14,940 --> 00:52:17,380
what all that does. 
You don't realize all the 

1018
00:52:17,380 --> 00:52:19,740
decisions that you are making 
every day. 

1019
00:52:19,940 --> 00:52:21,860
Yeah, against that. 
Like, you know. 

1020
00:52:22,100 --> 00:52:24,660
Yeah, the tech is only a little 
part actually. 

1021
00:52:24,660 --> 00:52:26,260
I mean, how many people have 
said, oh, I don't want to have 

1022
00:52:26,260 --> 00:52:28,700
kids yet cuz I don't make enough
money yet or you know, let's not

1023
00:52:29,020 --> 00:52:30,780
get married yet. 
I don't have money or let's I 

1024
00:52:30,780 --> 00:52:34,640
can't do this because that. 
And it's like, that's why you're

1025
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,920
constantly chasing more money. 
It's like if you add up all of 

1026
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,600
the energy that you spent and 
all the things that you did, 

1027
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,640
think about if there was an 
inflation, what your net worth 

1028
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,160
would be today versus how hard 
you worked and all the stuff you

1029
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,560
bought. 
Like if you were to write it 

1030
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,320
down on paper, it's it's pretty 
shocking and it's kind of scary.

1031
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,520
How much value of that? 
Right. 

1032
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:03,330
So so you spend it on. 
Whatever bullshit stuff. 

1033
00:53:03,330 --> 00:53:05,890
Or just another sneaker or 
whatever. 

1034
00:53:06,770 --> 00:53:09,490
But that also took away some 
value of what you could have 

1035
00:53:09,490 --> 00:53:10,570
had, right? 
Right. 

1036
00:53:10,570 --> 00:53:14,690
So perhaps after 10 years, let's
say take a time frame of 10 

1037
00:53:14,690 --> 00:53:16,570
years, you could have started a 
family. 

1038
00:53:17,090 --> 00:53:19,450
That's where bought a house or 
whatever, right? 

1039
00:53:19,450 --> 00:53:25,730
So it also actually by like 
spending it now, you're also 

1040
00:53:25,730 --> 00:53:28,800
diluting yourself in the future?
That's right. 

1041
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,360
Because you don't have the 
vehicle to actually well until 

1042
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,080
it's quite obviously. 
But yeah, you didn't have the 

1043
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,760
vehicle to to actually, yeah, 
get there even there was number 

1044
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:40,800
incentive. 
Yeah. 

1045
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,160
No, I mean how many times have 
you or so many people, you know 

1046
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,040
just, you know, you jump on 
Amazon you buy something for 

1047
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,520
twenty, 30-40 bucks. 
Yeah. 

1048
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,520
This is kind of this weird cheap
China. 

1049
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,040
It's not right. 
And you just toss it because 

1050
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,920
it's almost not even worth 
returning. 

1051
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,880
Or you kind of use it and you 
just constantly are doing that. 

1052
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,640
It's because that twenty 30-40 
bucks just doesn't mean what it 

1053
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:03,880
used to. 
But now. 

1054
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:05,960
But also because we don't 
understand, right? 

1055
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,560
Like I I have 20 pairs of shoes,
so I totally care what you're 

1056
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,240
saying. 
No, but it's also because you 

1057
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,560
just you don't. 
You don't understand. 

1058
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:15,880
Well, before I didn't 
understand. 

1059
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,600
Now I try to live way more 
frugal in that sense, but. 

1060
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,360
Yeah, because you don't. 
You don't. 

1061
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,560
You just don't understand. 
Well, that's denominating in 

1062
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,040
your Fiat, in your political 
currency. 

1063
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:31,640
If you redenominate in Bitcoin, 
you're gonna stop buying so many

1064
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,520
sneakers. 
You know, because that pair of 

1065
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,520
sneakers that you paid 250 bucks
for is suddenly going to be 

1066
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,240
worth 1000 bucks. 
Yes, and to my. 

1067
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:43,560
Story is I bought headphones, 
not these, because the 

1068
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,840
headphones I bought are broken 
before, but I bought headphones 

1069
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,290
with Bitcoin. 
And those turned out to be $7000

1070
00:54:50,770 --> 00:54:54,650
and they're already broken. 
I don't even ask them anymore. 

1071
00:54:56,210 --> 00:54:57,530
Yeah. 
Well, I mean, there's so many 

1072
00:54:57,530 --> 00:54:59,650
stories of those people that 
have bought a house that's now 

1073
00:54:59,650 --> 00:55:02,570
worth $240 million. 
You know, it's just like because

1074
00:55:02,570 --> 00:55:04,890
they got into Bitcoin when it 
was, you know, 7 bucks. 

1075
00:55:05,210 --> 00:55:07,490
Yeah. 
But you've been in for 10 years,

1076
00:55:07,490 --> 00:55:09,990
did you say? 
Yeah, but up and down, up and 

1077
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:12,510
down. 
So I thought, that's impressive,

1078
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:15,230
I. 
That I'm still here, maybe? 

1079
00:55:15,590 --> 00:55:18,950
Well, yeah, for sure. 
But wow, I yeah, I don't know if

1080
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:20,870
I've met anyone that's been in 
that long yet. 

1081
00:55:21,830 --> 00:55:25,230
Well, I bought for 300 dish, but
I sold that 4000 so I felt 

1082
00:55:25,230 --> 00:55:28,230
great. 
And then you sold to me, You 

1083
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:30,390
sold to me because that's. 
Probably fine, yeah. 

1084
00:55:30,550 --> 00:55:33,710
And then later later, well I 
then I got back in of course and

1085
00:55:33,710 --> 00:55:37,310
like, but I, but I, yeah, over 
the past 10 years I did like 

1086
00:55:37,310 --> 00:55:40,430
really experience all the down 
markets as well. 

1087
00:55:40,430 --> 00:55:44,590
So that's also why I'm, I'm 
still really excited to see it 

1088
00:55:44,590 --> 00:55:47,590
go up. 
Like, I think my heart is ice 

1089
00:55:47,590 --> 00:55:50,600
cold. 
Because I went so much down, but

1090
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,920
it's also pretty cold when we go
up, right? 

1091
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:58,520
Like, I don't. 
For me it's now almost like a 

1092
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,800
game. 
And I said this in other 

1093
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,160
podcasts as well. 
Like, I once read a tweet of a I

1094
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,960
don't know who, but of a guy who
said like if you even remotely 

1095
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,600
think Bitcoin is going to be a 
thing, do you want to see it in 

1096
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,160
the stadium when it happens or 
not? 

1097
00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:15,470
And then I thought, yes, that's 
that's what I want. 

1098
00:56:15,550 --> 00:56:19,390
Because I I see it like I know I
put in the work in 10 years. 

1099
00:56:19,390 --> 00:56:20,670
Yeah. 
Thousands of hours. 

1100
00:56:20,670 --> 00:56:22,590
I don't know. 
The 1520 thousand hours. 

1101
00:56:22,590 --> 00:56:23,790
I don't know. 
Yeah. 

1102
00:56:23,870 --> 00:56:26,670
I I just think, yeah, this is 
it, right? 

1103
00:56:26,790 --> 00:56:30,430
Like like so many of us. 
And now when it happens, I want 

1104
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:33,830
to, I want to have that seat in 
the stadium, you know, that's 

1105
00:56:33,830 --> 00:56:35,470
why I'm here. 
And that's also why I'm trying 

1106
00:56:35,470 --> 00:56:38,470
to do this and starting this and
and then we'll see. 

1107
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:41,760
And for me? 
After this time, like the number

1108
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,040
for me is just 100,000. 
Like it when it hits 100,000, I 

1109
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,280
know it'll be a million and I 
know it'll be 10 million and I 

1110
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,800
know it'll be everything because
the thesis is still, it's 

1111
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,800
everything or nothing. 
And for me the 100,000 is my 

1112
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,440
indicator of of that. 
It will actually, yeah, suck up 

1113
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,440
all the value that that is there
because like as you said as well

1114
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,040
like once you understand like 
what? 

1115
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:10,320
Are you going to sell your stuff
for or Why would you buy 

1116
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:14,160
something else than Bitcoin, 
right. 

1117
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,160
Once you truly understand then, 
and that's why what they mean 

1118
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,360
with you know, it's sucking up 
all the value is people who have

1119
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:26,240
gold or diamonds who are not, 
you know, that are diluting 

1120
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,640
because of the fake diamonds you
know, So gold, diamonds, houses,

1121
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,120
all these other things are 
eventually inferior to Bitcoin. 

1122
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,910
And once that's right enough. 
You know, and that's what why we

1123
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:40,070
talk about adoption. 
Once enough people actually 

1124
00:57:40,070 --> 00:57:44,350
understand that people will save
in Bitcoin like that. 

1125
00:57:44,350 --> 00:57:49,430
That is just and then there's 
the secondary effect, you know, 

1126
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:52,710
of helping the planet because 
all this extra junk that we're 

1127
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:55,710
buying, it's being made and you 
know, going into storage and 

1128
00:57:55,710 --> 00:57:59,190
being thrown up in the landfills
and deteriorating and becoming 

1129
00:57:59,190 --> 00:58:02,390
methane and you know it's. 
Zero value. 

1130
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:04,790
It has no added value in the 
world. 

1131
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:07,630
I think so. 
But yeah, it also. 

1132
00:58:07,630 --> 00:58:09,550
I love, I love that. 
I hope, I hope that people 

1133
00:58:09,550 --> 00:58:11,990
understand that. 
Like what you said, like people 

1134
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:15,750
are buying stupid shit you think
you need to stuff or that you 

1135
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:19,390
like in some way. 
You know subconsciously you are 

1136
00:58:19,390 --> 00:58:24,750
driven to spend your money, 
which absolutely makes no sense.

1137
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:28,300
You know there. 
Well, sometimes it makes sense 

1138
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:30,460
when you when you need a house 
or thing, but like, right? 

1139
00:58:31,780 --> 00:58:34,260
For anyone listening, look 
around, look at the stupid stuff

1140
00:58:34,260 --> 00:58:36,780
you have and think about why you
bought that, right? 

1141
00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:40,460
Like why the government wants 
they don't want you to say they 

1142
00:58:40,460 --> 00:58:42,940
don't want you to invest. 
They say they want you to, but 

1143
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:45,420
they don't. 
And it's partially why Cbdc's 

1144
00:58:45,420 --> 00:58:48,820
are so scary, because when 
Cbdc's come out, they're gonna 

1145
00:58:48,820 --> 00:58:52,340
make you spend those things are 
going to expire and that's 

1146
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:55,670
that's something that most 
people are not familiar with is 

1147
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:58,670
expirable. 
That will make you anxious even 

1148
00:58:58,670 --> 00:59:02,710
more, right? 
All right, let's end on a higher

1149
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:07,030
note, OK. 
I ask this to everyone, yes, at 

1150
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:10,150
the end this last question, 
what's a core belief you will 

1151
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:26,130
never let go that the the issue 
with all of the ills and 

1152
00:59:26,130 --> 00:59:34,290
everything broken in society and
in money and anywhere is human 

1153
00:59:34,290 --> 00:59:37,930
action. 
And as sad as that is, it's like

1154
00:59:37,930 --> 00:59:44,050
once you remove remove humans, 
you can have a pure trustless 

1155
00:59:44,050 --> 00:59:45,970
form of whatever it is, you 
know? 

1156
00:59:46,050 --> 00:59:50,250
In this case, we're comparing it
to Bitcoin and money, but who 

1157
00:59:50,250 --> 00:59:54,870
would have thought that this 
whole time that that was the 

1158
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:59,110
solution to money was simply to 
remove people? 

1159
01:00:02,070 --> 01:00:06,070
Yeah, Wilder, I love that. 
That's why, yeah, yeah. 

1160
01:00:06,670 --> 01:00:09,230
And and we cannot trust 
ourselves is actually what 

1161
01:00:09,230 --> 01:00:12,230
you're saying. 
That's right, which is why it 

1162
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:15,230
was always planned. 
Satoshi was always going to 

1163
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:17,030
vanish. 
He was always going to disappear

1164
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:20,670
because he knew he had to. 
You cannot have a face. 

1165
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,280
Yeah, yeah, That's actually 
amazing. 

1166
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,800
It's amazing he stepped away. 
Like what a person I. 

1167
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,360
Yeah, I think, I think it's 
Hellfinny. 

1168
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,280
So I think he's, you know, he's 
probably dead. 

1169
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:42,200
But if he's still alive, I it's 
it must be amazing to see like 

1170
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,990
what an enlightened person that 
that has to be right? 

1171
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:49,310
Like if you want if if he would 
be he or she or her day would be

1172
01:00:49,310 --> 01:00:50,710
alive. 
And they watch it from a 

1173
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:53,470
distance and they and they see 
what they did. 

1174
01:00:54,310 --> 01:00:57,790
That must feel incredible. 
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

1175
01:00:58,750 --> 01:01:00,230
But I agree. 
I don't think they're they're 

1176
01:01:00,230 --> 01:01:01,630
with us anymore. 
Which is good. 

1177
01:01:01,630 --> 01:01:02,990
Which is a good thing. 
Yeah. 

1178
01:01:03,630 --> 01:01:05,230
Well, thanks so much for this 
conversation. 

1179
01:01:05,230 --> 01:01:06,630
I really enjoyed. 
It Yeah. 

1180
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:10,830
Where can people follow you? 
Find your book. 

1181
01:01:10,830 --> 01:01:13,790
I will obviously link. 
To it. 

1182
01:01:14,450 --> 01:01:18,170
Proof of money on Twitter I'm 
I'm there every day and from 

1183
01:01:18,170 --> 01:01:21,330
there they can find my book. 
It's in every format. 

1184
01:01:21,330 --> 01:01:26,090
Hardback paper, audio ebook, and
you can listen to it for free 

1185
01:01:26,290 --> 01:01:29,210
right on the on the Kindle. 
Yeah, if you anyone that has an 

1186
01:01:29,210 --> 01:01:31,050
audible account, it's, they're 
audible there. 

1187
01:01:31,290 --> 01:01:34,330
Yeah, 21 chapters, 20 minutes 
each. 

1188
01:01:34,730 --> 01:01:36,930
So awesome. 
Yeah. 

1189
01:01:37,010 --> 01:01:39,290
Thanks again and let's stay in 
touch. 

1190
01:01:39,690 --> 01:01:40,650
OK. 
Thanks Bram. 

1191
01:01:40,970 --> 01:01:41,810
Come at. 
Cheers. 

1192
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:44,910
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, it would be amazing 

1193
01:01:44,910 --> 01:01:47,710
if you could rate, review and 
subscribe on the podcast 

1194
01:01:47,710 --> 01:01:50,670
platform of your choice. 
It will help us educate more 

1195
01:01:50,670 --> 01:01:52,750
millennials on the importance of
Bitcoin. 

1196
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:54,790
You can follow and connect with 
me on Twitter. 

1197
01:01:54,790 --> 01:01:59,270
I'm Bram Kay, that's at Bramk. 
And if you are or know someone 

1198
01:01:59,270 --> 01:02:01,310
who has an interesting 
perspective on Bitcoin that's 

1199
01:02:01,310 --> 01:02:04,310
worth sharing, hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1200
01:02:04,310 --> 01:02:06,190
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1201
01:02:06,190 --> 01:02:07,870
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1202
01:02:08,190 --> 01:02:18,230
Thanks for listening. 
Bye, I'm a.